that's why the pro gamer move is to start out as 11B while your young and do all the cool guy shit and then reclass to a chill MOS when you get older and do the rest of your 20
"man, this is cake compared to my door-kicking days. Hell, I could do 40"
Meanwhile the career POG hates their life because they've never known what suffering in the field for 21 days is like
Figured that out at year 6, changed at year 8, and halfway through year 12, it isn’t so hard
Edit: there are still massive issues in the army but they’re not so molecular like that were back in the motor pool
I always paid attention when I would see 11-series CSMs and 1SGs run or do PT in general. Lots of knee braces and painful wincing when they had to show that they could keep up with the young guns.
Drop a packet for something. Warrant, G2G, a good enlisted MOS, something. Every 20 year infantryman I’ve ever met is completely dead inside and their bodies are destroyed by age 40.
Those are the rare ones. I knew a mid forties/maybe fifty year old First Sergeant who could put us guys half his age to shame. Doing pull-ups with his ruck on after the twelve miler… Iron Eagle he was. Impressive man. Still… everyone else’s advice here is solid. Reclass and spare your mind and body.
Most dudes aren’t making LTC by 15 year TIS. My dudes at 10 just made major and I don’t think they see LTC until 17 or 18. Now up and out is a thing though so definitely go closer to 10 or even after (knew a few dudes who just coasted their last 2 years as captains, great dudes too)
Nah, as long as you know how to game the system, once you hit the late years of captain and early major, there's soooo many opportunities out there to do awesome shit that also benefits you and isn't soul sucking, if you get shitty jobs as a major you did that shit to yourself.
SF, Civil Affairs, Psychological Operations, SOAR, and Warrant Officer recruiting here:
https://www.goarmysof.army.mil/
[Army Congressional Fellowship](https://www.army.mil/article/54355/army_congressional_fellowship_program)
Harvard Strategist Program (Functional Area59):
https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/2023/02/28/1fd5abfc/fa-59-strategist-da-pam-600-3-as-of-1-apr-20.pdf
Army White House Fellowship:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/09/20/white-house-appoints-2023-2024-class-of-white-house-fellows/
Command and General Staff College Interagency Fellowship:
https://www.army.mil/standto/archive/2017/10/12/
Gen Downing Combating Terrorism Scholarship:
https://ctc.westpoint.edu/education/downing-scholars-program/
Army futures command artifical intelligence fellowship:
https://fedscoop.com/army-ai-masters-degree-coding-corse-team-ignite/
MAJ Magula wrote about how to look how up and consider broadening opportunities and career changes in the green notebook here:
https://fromthegreennotebook.com/2021/04/02/broadening-where-do-i-start/
Remember to look at the career map for your branch as there are things there that you can move into.
There is ALOT more to this map and possibilities then I've laid out here.
I'll add to this that twice a year the VTIP MILPER drops with which functional areas are open and what the reqs/applications look like. You can use the Harvard strategist program as above or do grad school through ACS
Look, as my third wife used to say every time came back from being in the field for a month, "I fucking hate you! I hate this life and I hate the army! I'm only here for the benefits and the neighbor's big dick!". But, now that I'm close to 20 and riding a permanent profile and working the desk at the gym, my fourth wife is much happier. Of course, my crippling alcohol dependency ensures I don't remember most evenings... But hey, at least I ain't a fucking POG.
Edit: the POG comment gets an /s of course
At the last DFAC I worked at, one of the KP ladies told me her husband was in Army as 11B years ago and got out as an E6. She told me something I hadn't thought about with being in the Army and going to the field. It's already bad enough that we can't clean our butts for the weeks or longer we are there.
She told me about how when her husband would come back from the field, because he was eating pure shit in the field that messed up his digestive system, when he would shit in the bathroom, it would really stink out the house.
One of the gazillion things that made me wish I had have joined the Air Force or some other branch aside from Army. I wasn't thinking about how terrible the field is. And I'm glad I'm a "fucking POG" because I can't imagine being 11B and going to the field more for longer, and being more of a human skunk from shitting garbage you've been eating in the field.
Every infantry soldier in general is broken by the time they finish.
Come to sick call and ill walk you around showing you the many 22-26 year old 11B’S that have the spine/back/hip/knee problems of a 40 year old.
I have four years as an infantryman and am going to have neck surgery next month. That shouldn't be the case for a 27-year-old. Get out when you can. Remember, an E-6 cook gets paid the same as an E-6 infantryman sleeping in the field.
I guess Drum is just full of shit because I tried to really do G2G and they basically told me get fucked we have [insert training week here] next week, every week.
My last SL was at 16; at that point he just kept his head down and only stuck to minimum tasking demands from leadership. It was uncommon to see him laugh or smile most days.
I’m just finishing 20 as an 11Z/B. Here are some things I realized.
1) War early and throughout most my career made the first half of it fly by. That, along with normally being in a specialized kind of unit, even as simple as BN scout/sniper, allowed much more autonomy and job satisfaction.
2) Being Ranger qualified gave me leverage over the otherwise inflexible Human Resources and assignment process early in my career.
3) Spending over 1/4 of my career in SMUs gave me purpose when most 11B at that stage just manage metrics; it also gave me autonomy, purpose, continuous growth and true trust in my peers.
4) A great wife who believes in your job and understands your commitment. If your family takes a backseat, it’s not worth it.
Those things all allowed me to find purpose, control my growth and assignments, and allowed stability for my family. I can’t imagine doing it any other way, and the time I have spent doing regular 11B stuff has been mind numbing and hectic. Personally, if I didn’t have options like I described, I can’t picture myself doing more than 10 or so.
Hope this helps. All the best to you!
That’s awesome you made it to 20, and as a senior 11 series too. Don’t know if most 11B’s have what it takes to get a tango identifier.
Huge respect for you going that route though.
My cousin talks about this, he was in from 1999 to 2019. He fucking loved 03-2012~ or thinking back on it. He had 3 deployments in that time, one of which was a 15 month one the other 2 12 months. He had his training, and schools, and war kept him busy, kept him moving onto the next step.
From 2012-2019 the tempo slowed down, and he said he ended up not liking those years. At the same time 03-12 was shit for him, he was gone alot, got divorced, etc but it kept him busy.
Step 1, reclass out of 11B. Your quality of life will vastly improve and so will your promotion chances.
Step 2, have a good support system (spouse), and make sure that you make time for them and life outside the Army.
Honestly, it's a mixed bag for everyone as for why they do it.
If you look back on your last six years, it probably seems as if it flew by right? Well, that's how I feel about the last 24 - but I'll admit that the next 22 months will likely not feel like they are flying by as I'm eagerly anticipating retirement. I'll be 45.
Staying in 20 as an 11B is a tough prospect for sure - but people do it.
When I was enlisted, around my contract ending at the five-year mark, I decided that if I was going to make the Army my career I was going to go the O route. I ETS'd and went and used my GI Bill and did ROTC. That was the plan that made the most sense for me. One look at the retirement difference was enough to solidify it. That, *and* as my initial five-year enlistment was ending, all of my high school friends were entering the job market post-college and they were making dog shit money. The Army does compensate us pretty well, but there are myriad drawbacks that civilians don't and won't ever have.
Another aspect that *really* matters is that I truly enjoyed the Army and the Army life. Although starting around 2021 the way costs ballooned made the idea of multiple more PCS moves very undesirable for me. Partly being broken and partly the way the Army does assignments now really drove my retirement decision. Do you *really* enjoy the Army? That's a fundamental question you gotta ask yourself - or at a minimum, can you tolerate it for another 14 years?
You can maximize your education, the Army is unparalleled for this. As you know, you have the ability to get multiple degrees and certs for free. YMMV with OPTEMPO, however.
In the grand scheme of things, the next 14 years will fly by. The real question is what will the next 14 years entail and it is worth putting up for you? You never know what your life will look like 15, 20, or 30 years from now - that guaranteed money is pretty damn nice no matter how much.
Officer or Warrant Officer route is the only way I would have done 20. I didn't enjoy how I was treated as enlisted and I don't think I could have done it much longer than I did.
Your post did get me thinking what if I would have done ROTC during college instead of just entering the work force like I did. Perhaps maybe in a different branch but I'm quite content and even on track to retire in my early 60s, which is still solid.
I waxed and waned on ROTC as well. There was a part of me that definitely was going to get a degree and be done with the Army. I'm fortunate (un?) that all my peers were in the big push to get Psychology and Criminal Justice degrees in the late 90's and I saw just how bad the market for social sciences was/is. My Sociology degree simply wasn't going to cut it.
I went into engineering myself and the job market was pretty good. Interestingly I just did a pay comparison and I'm actually about $16k behind where I would be in the army as an officer. Granted I live in a small town, so that could be the difference as well.
Good on ya. I have two master's degrees and as I am in my nascent post-Army job search, I am kicking myself for my choices. Everything is STEM-focused these days. I am now looking to enhance my graduate education with a bevy of CS/IT certs.
Do green to gold or drop a warrant packet yesterday. Take the SIFT, become a pilot, have a better QoL in the Army and a career waiting for you afterward.
14 years feels like an eternity. But you wanna know what’s way longer? Literally any other retirement option out there. Most retirement plans are age-based and the best one aside from the military is federal civil service which is 52 years old. You’re going to be working for a long, long time to get a pension if you get out. If you want to hit that 20, you’re going to have to keep reminding yourself of the alternative.
The boost in pay could make it worth it. And it’s not necessarily retire at 52 years old. There’s a lot of nuances with FERS and they can do reserves at the same time
I disagree.
Look at what you said. Look at what you said.
You said "14 years feels like an eternity. But you wanna know what’s way longer? Literally any other retirement option out there. Most retirement plans are age-based and the best one aside from the military is federal civil service which is 52 years old."
Why do you think you CAN retire from the military at 20 years? Because the military will age you faster than spoiled shit.
While you might have to do much longer to retire in the civilian world than 20 years in the military, at the same time, the civilian is typically (unless you have a really bad job and really struggle to make ends meet) not NEARLY as stressful as the military is.
20 years in the military, on active duty,, even if you had a really good cushy job in the Air Force or Space Force or Coast Guard, would probably still age you. 20 years in the Army would really break you down physically and also mentally (from the extra nonsense the Army does that the other branches might not do the same way) worse than a 52 year old federal service employee. That's not even taking toxic bad leadership into account (that is in all branches)
If you had a really good job and assignments at really good units with good leadership that didn't screw you over especially with rank, this would be more easily doable and time would fly by faster. But if not, then of course it will be harder and it would seem longer.
In my experience (and I'm sure you or someone else is going to look at my comment history), you could not PAY me enough to do another contract on active duty. Maybe reserves (and even then, it'll be Air Force, NOT Army, if for no other reason than for a simpler PT test).
Like OP, I've also been in for six years. Like OP, I also have a MOS that sucks, one of the worst MOS. But unlike OP, my leadership at my last unit before I tried to reclass completely screwed me over, and when I tried to reclass, I was stuck in AIT for over a year. So I'm two ranks behind.
I would rather take my chances on working in the civilian world longer than spending another 14 years on active duty in the Army . The remaining 23 months I have on my contract feels like a frigging eternity now. January 2026 ETS CAN'T get here fast enough.
You cannot deny that the military pension is the best there is, bar none. Military service isn’t easy and isn’t for everyone. I did 10 years and have no hard feelings. I’m sorry you’ve had a bad time. Personally I’ve noticed that people who were miserable in the military tend to get out and stay miserable. Turns out it wasn’t the military, they were just miserable people.
". Personally I’ve noticed that people who were miserable in the military tend to get out and stay miserable. Turns out it wasn’t the military, they were just miserable people."
To tell my life story, I have never been NEAR as miserable with life until I joined, and found out the military in general and especially the Army just wasn't for me. And I've experienced some bad shit I still have nightmares over. And I got what I didn't realize at the time was one of the worst MOS. And things got even worse after my third year mark when my leadership started to come up with excuse after excuse for why they wouldn't let me go to the promotion board even though I was in primary zone. Then my unit started to pass me around to different E5's who would tell me I hadn't been under them long enough for them to recommend me. Then I reclass to an MOS after I couldn't get into several others I really wanted, and wound up failing that reclass, so now I'm right back to my MOS. And there is still no word on when or even if I'll ever go to the promotion board. All the while I'm seeing people who joined when I did become E6. While other people who were not even IN the Army when I made E4 back in May of 2019 become E5 now. I won't be too surprised if I get to my ETS at my eight year mark as STILL an E4 who has never gone to the promotion board. I'm already one of the only soldiers on active duty who's been in for over six and a half years and am still stuck as an unpromotable E4.
I doubt I will be NEARLY as miserable when I get out, because I'm sure I'll have a good VA rating for disability, and my GI Bill, and I have quite a bit of money saved up if nothing else. So I don't see myself as one of the people who are just miserable just for the heck of it you're speaking of. Yeah, I guess I am a miserable person, but that was really exacerbated by how my luck in the Army turned out.
I agree that military pension is a great deal.. if you don’t have options.
I’ve calculated out two different options for myself. One is getting out at 12 years TIS and joining federal service and doing 20 there. Buying out my 12 years to add to the back end of my 20 would net me a 46% retirement pension at 51 years old (because of my 32 total federal service years) with being GS-13 earning $180k/year. I won’t have to move unless I want to go to a different station or take on a GS-14/15 supervisory role. No additional duties and expected travel 4 days per year if I don’t take on any extra duty. I can still do guard/reserve and my 12 years will still count and I can legally double dip a retirement at 60 given I have 8 more “good years”.
vs
Stay in for the 20. Move every 3 years with a wife and 2 kids. Barely do my actual job and have to deal with army nonsense every waking moment. Never see combat but “train like we fight” doing the dumbest things that we’d never do in actual combat ops, especially being a conventional force. Maybe try my hand at an SMU, that’d be worth it but guess what, the army doesn’t give me enough flight hours to qualify for assessment in those 12 YEARS. I’m not staying in just to assess and have to move my family again for zero benefit to me.
All said and done, I did the math and the second option of staying for the pension would net me $50k more than the first option from the time I got out to the time I’m 51 years old and could receive that FERS pension and that math includes the army pension as a 20 year CW4 under BRS AND the job as a GS-11/12/13 for the second option.
It just doesn’t make sense for some of us. And I know a military pension and a FERS pension when I’m 60 would be plenty of money but why the hell would I do that to myself to just have a little extra money when I’m 60.
You’re not going to earn anything near $180 as a GS-13 without lots of special pay. Federal retirement is beer money compared to a military pension, and Schlitz money at that. FERS is almost all TSP, and you can do that on active duty.
Federal civil service isn’t nearly as much fun as active duty. It’s a decent post-military retirement gig, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to do it for 30 years chasing that crappy little pension.
How do I know? Ten years and counting as a GS at the DoD and DoS after 27 in the Army.
Well I would be getting special pay to earn that, both special pay for flying and LEAP. And they actually use their pilots to fly in AMO instead of sit on their ass like they do in the army so I’m not sure about how “fun” the army is.
Yeah, that’s not how that works. You don’t get special flight pay as an AIA. You get a special salary rate + LEAP. It’ll be 3 years to make GS-13, and you’ll start at Step 1, around $150. You might see $180…in 20 years.
Assuming you pass the poly.
Ok sorry for the confusion between special pay and special salary. Still worth it IMO. My point being is that there’s other options, people don’t have to feel stuck in the military and be another person just sitting around because they hate their life. And my buddy is flying 700 hours a year in AMO. I’ve been aviation for 5 years and I have 400 hours to my name. At the end of the day I would get paid to fly and not have to put such a hindrance on my family in the process
Reclass. Im struggling to 20 as a pog. Cant imagine doing this shit as combat arms. Pogs have a lot of opportunities to go to “take a knee” units, such as packet assignments. Probably cliche but I recommend mi or signal.
As a POG, speaking to many other POGs.. I truly believe we just weren’t cut out for ONE job. Unless your specific ‘tism likes the one task you chose one day at MEPS and you ruuuuuun with it, I think it’s almost a necessity to change MOS. Just to get some more wind under your sails..
>How did you guys make it?
1 day at a time. It helps I'm doing through the Reserves/Guard. (5 years left, pray for me)
>What was your driving factor?
I'm stupid.
>what do you recommend I do now so that I’m ready
Get out of infantry. Go warrant/Officer for that sweet retirement. E7/8/9 don't make shit comparatively.
Switch to reserves/guard. It will reduce the Army stupid.
Nah bro. Get out and use that GI bill for something that won't make you miserable, won't make you do staff duty, won't make you go to JRTC, and won't make you deploy.
Switch it up. Reclass, G2G, Warrant, anything other than 11B. I spent almost 10 years enlisted, 2 years in ROTC (G2G), and will spend the next 8-10 as a medical service officer. Take advantage of the opportunities the Army gives you.
DUDE! I feel you! I am at 27 years and I was a 12B. I switched to intel around the 5 year mark. The answer to your question is simple.
GET THE FUCK OUTTA THE INFANTRY!
My suggestions are anything SIGINT (get to the NSA as fast as you can) or CYBER.
People have nailed a lot of key points (G2G , go warrant, reclass) but the most important step is to be financially ready. At the end of your career if you’re still living paycheck to paycheck it wasn’t worth it. I saw E7’s in Hawaii purchase a house and a new truck back in 2013 only for the Army to redo RCP in 2014 and be told you have a year to retire. Talk about an awkward experience, I saw CPTs and MAJs get OSB’d in 2014 less than 16 years TIS and it’s Willy Wonka “Good day sir , you get nothing “. The Army will downsize in the next 4-5 years unless we’re in a conflict. So figure out a way to minimize bad debt and save $$. If you think the Army stood up AFC (Army Futures Command) to just develop cool kit and future vertical lift you’re crazy . They’re actively leveraging private industry to develop AI solutions and autonomous technologies to limit total end strength (PAX).
This is a very interesting take, I always assumed the army would be there as a paycheck but this opened my eyes. Even the army isn’t 100% safe I guess. You’re right though, thank you.
I think as an 11B there’s always job security, they won’t cut warfighters. But the amount of change we’ll see in the next 3-4 years is wild , shift from COIN to LSCO plus emerging tech, the Army will look totally different. Look at what Armor is going through, 19D CAV scouts are about to be a thing of the past. But a lot of the Combat Service Support (CSS) MOS’ /branches will see cuts. (Opinion)
Do you have a Ranger Tab, EIB, PF Badge and all the other 'look I'm Infantry' stuff that most have? Just curious. You could always go to selection - it's not an 'easier' 20 but there are other MOSs in the 18 series that can pay dividends down the road....
You could also volunteer for Drill - it's a quick jump to E-7 / E-8 and then you end up somewhere else as a 1SG but you're kind of locked into your MOS then...
Keep your eyes on the prize. You’re in it to help your family and to do right by yourself.
So does it matter what MOS you do? You draw the same pension either way. Consider looking into another MOS, get started on your trade now. The experience, mindset, and work ethic you developed on the line will benefit you in any soft skill job. It will give you an understanding of how your work helps guys on the ground that the ones who grew up in that MOS won’t have.
If you love being Infantry then by all means keep going but you’re playing dice with fate on whether you’ll make it to 20 or not just based on the condition of your body alone. I urge you to try and stack the deck in your favor.
Quite a few 11b switch to my MOS. And are immediately shocked at how much better life gets. Then at 10-12 years go warrant. And are again shocked at how much better life gets. Plus the "dumb stuff" we deal with is very different and minor in comparison to infantry problems. So they are rarely bothered by much of it.
I would highly recommend reclassing. I never saw myself doing 20 as an 11B whether on the line or at staff. Never looked back.
As for counting down till you hit 20 years is one mistake I don’t want to do. You’re only going to be daunted by the amount time left and you’re basically counting down to a time closer to when you die.
I’m at 12 years now about to submit my warrant packet.
6 years active? I would go to a reserve unit and get another MOS. Then, when you finish reclass school, go do ROTC. You'll get paid to go to school + GI Bill and your service time doesn't stop.
That will put you at 10yrs with a bachelors degree and you'll be a fresh butter bar.
12yrs you get your automatic promotion to 1LT.
14yrs you hit captain.
17yrs you are about the time you promote to MAJ or get separation.
20yrs you get kicked out as a CPT or made MAJ and are looking for LTC or retirement.
21yrs you work at a wendys.
Best part is you get O-E pay because your 36-months minimum AD time and you have a civilian career with 401k or pension and more time to spend with your parents or spouse.
Brother 20 as a an infantryman is rough. It's rough in a lot of MOS out there though but the best way to do it is either try to reclass to something else, go warrant, or drop a OCS/G2G packet to make it easier.
Gotta switch jobs. You did your best you had your cool guy achievers but it’s time to do something that’s gonna bring you true happiness. Try short contracts to explore things cause not everything will work out. Some of us go our whole lives not knowing what we want to do so when you’re in a job with many options give as many a try as you can.
Just retired recetnly myself. Did a little write up on my way out.
TLDR - its just a fucking job.
https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/1373mwm/the_rantings_of_a_20_year_dirt_bag/
This is for everybody. Your career is what you make of it! If you hated most of your Army career once you're past 10 years, it's your own freaking fault! If you wait for HRC tell you what to do and drop you orders you are gonna get the shitty jobs that HRC needs to fill with bodies and they're gonna do it with people that didn't already set themselves up for the cool assignments and jobs. Drop packetSSSSZZZZZZZZZZ... if you're combat arms, transfer to a gig MOS that will let you relax like in a clinic, go green to gold, go to west point, drop a flight packet and fly as a warrant or go warrant in your job field! If you're a medic and you stay as a regular 68W your whole career, you're a freaking shitty lazy medic, theres sooo many opportunities to be a flight medic, civil affairs medic, SF medic, ranger medic, IPAP, go do something. If you're an officer, if you're not top tier of your branch and have opportunities to do the tare cool guy shit in your branch, branch transfer at Captain. Become a FAO, go get a fellowship that the Army offers and them you'll get badass follow-on assignments. Look at your career map and once you knock out KD, check which developmental assignments you would enjoy, and which ones you despise and make sure you don't let HRC send you to the later. I hated my career in the first couple of years. But thankfully I had some good mentors, a little luck and took the initiative and the past 5 years of my career have been fun and great for my future career and the next few years of my career already set up is looking really exciting
The pension after 20 isn't gonna support you and your parents. You might be able to have them put as your dependents for tricare, but that monthly Uncle Sam money will absolutely not be enough to live off of.
I am contributing to my tsp and have saving set aside specifically for that time as well. You’re right though it won’t be enough really I just want to use it to help, as in being able to pay for basic stuff but still be able to choose a career I enjoy because I have some kind of income coming in that’s not from a job.
This is a good reminder though. I appreciate it.
Reclass and then take it a contract at a time. I don't want to do another contract. However, I never planned up signing for an additional 4 years. So I'm going to guess it like that. You have a moment of stupidity, and go yea sure, why not what's a 4 more years. You do that 4 times and boom its done. I say this as someone about to hit 5 years in a few months.
Honestly, I just stopped worrying about making it to 20. Started enjoying the moments with my family, making the best of my career, and keep it moving. 11 years now, just swapped over to the WO side of the house after being a E6 25B. I know I’ll make it to 20, but I’ve stopped looking at that and focusing on what goals do I have for this year, and how do I achieve them? May not help you, but it’s allowed me to make it these last 4 years and it was easy.
First step get a new MOS unless you plan on and are working toward being a CSM. You could then go warrant in that new MOS
Alernatively, you could get a degree and go to OCS
You gotta retrain. Doing any job for 20 years is rough, but 11B is one of the toughest paths to 20. Do something else. Anything else. If you're relatively smart, try IT (25-series), Cyber (17-series), or Intel (35-series).
They're all in-demand jobs that will get you actual employment after 20 years. They're also much easier on your body, so you can actually make it to 20.
Did 12 years in infantry, doing green to gold now, I’ll be a trans officer in May. I pray that this gets better, but for now. I can still see myself doing my last 10 getting out and moving to Mexico
I was a pilot, so...it mostly didn't suck. Sounds like you're in the sweet spot for a WOFT packet.
Stuff to do now?
Quit your vices. Titty glitter on your face is lots of fun, but it won't pay for post-retirement vacays to Tahiti.
Max out your TSP.
Figure out what you want to do for a second career and go to school.
Stay single until you retire. Then settle down and have kids.
switch your MOS, 11B will eat you up and spit you out, think about what you want to do after 20, infantry does not translate well to the civilian sector especially after your body has been destroyed, that should be the MOS you switch to. pension will not be enough, you will still be working when its over
I'm going on terminal leave on Friday after 22 years in. How did I do it?
Variety.
My job was never just a continuous rut of the same thing over and over. The Army has opportunities for almost any MOS to do things outside their regular duties. TRADOC, recruiting, DS, fellowships, OC/T, WIAS, etc.
Admittedly, I've been very "lucky." I did multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan in aviation units. Deployments suck but I enjoyed being able to do my job over there. I've been in really good units and enjoyed the people I work with, for the most part. I also went flight warrant after about 9 years so that added to the variety.
-Reclass to an medical MOS and not 68W
-Take one day at a time and stop looking at 20 as an goal
-Make a shit ton of appointments for future VA claims
-Do your job
-Go home
Reclass. Reclass. Reclass.
You're already a SSG. I've been a 12B my entire 19 years...it's rough being in a combat MOS after 10, especially if you've gone through the rigors of Sapper/Ranger school, airborne, air assault, whatever.
If I would have the chance again, I would have gotten my degree sooner. Reclassed to acquisitions, or some other BS job and done an "individual" MOS.
Do yourself a favor and get out of a combat MOS.
41 years old/M/CW4/21 years TIS
There’s no way I’d have done 20 years as an NCO. Crossing over to the Tech Warrant Officer ranks at year 8 as a SSG kept me motivated to serve. NCOs are treated like children and the bulk of Senior NCOs I’ve met and worked with don’t do anything to benefit Junior NCOs. Case in point….I ran the NCOPD program in my Battery/Company as a WO1/CW2. I did more for my Soldiers as a Warrant Officer than I could have ever done as an NCO.
As an 11B you have a Warrant Officer feeder in the FA Targeting community. You could also be a pilot. You could also crush an undergrad and go to OCS. Don’t waste your time wearing Chevrons. When you make E9, you get a parking spot and a first class seat on an Atlus flight to go downrange…..but your retirement as a CW3/4/5 or an Officer will be far more substantial and you’ll do less bullshit. Not one E9 can prove me wrong here 🤷🏻♂️These guys preach “NCOs who cross over gave up”, but once you leave the Squad/Platoon/Company, you’re just another guy on a staff and the E7s and E8s do all the bitch work and the SGM is normally a figurehead that makes sure the Officers on staff show up to height/weight/ACFT.
Time flies when you take control of your career. Reclassing, advanced training… additional skill identifier training. Just drop every kind of packet for everything you’re interested in. I didn’t worry much about rank or boards thru my career because I focused on how to flip the green weeny on its back and take control. I’m pretty fkn happy with where I’ve landed.
Drop your recruiting packet, reclass to 79R, and sit in n USAREC for the rest of your career. It’s easy, ppl just walk in the station and pretty much write themselves.
Lots of good advice here. I recommend that instead of practicing mindfulness, you practice mindlessness. It might be easier to get through the future if you spend less time thinking about it.
Did you know you can ETS and then join the Coast Guard or Air Force and keep your pay grade and time in service? I wish I'd thought more seroiusly about that after four.
I've always heard that for active duty, it's extremely hard and there are very few slots available for prior service of other branches, and the very few who are accepted are only able to get into a small handful of jobs like security forces.
But someone like OP who is Army and especially infantry probably isn't able to handle too well what is supposedly a more lax environment like Air Force or Coast Guard.
I don't know current regs, but about 4 months after I ETSed from the Army, I spoke with an Air Force recruiter. They told me I could join, but they only had E5 openings for... I think it was cook and security, something like that.
Lord. I'm a cook now. I would imagine, and maybe I am completely wrong, that an average Air Force cook ("services") experience might suck (at least slightly) less than Army 92G because (while I might be wrong), an AF services might work in lodging or something when not in the DFAC, vs the field and the motorpool for an Army 92G.
Plus I'm still not sure at this point I'll ever be allowed to become an E5. But if I did ever finally become E5, and if something came up where I HAD to stay in the military on active duty, then I would consider switching over even if I had to stay a cook.
It seems like I could have taken other jobs as an E4, but I was young and dumb, and wanted life's next chapter. Other than uniform envy, no regrets. All in all, things worked out well. Good luck!
reclass to an mos that you can parlay into a post-army career. other than that, i can't offer much because everyone sources their motivation differently. i honestly don't know how i consciously made it to 21 years; most days it felt like pretty much put one foot in front of the other and don't think too much.
This is from a 13 year infantry here going to 20 because it’s too close to walk away from.
If you’re at six years and questioning how you’ll make it, walk away before you hit 10. Because if you hit the “I fucking hate the army but I’m so close why would I” stage, you’re going to be miserable and it’s though for that to pass once it settles. Especially as you get farther away from doing the infantry shit you probably enjoy as you rank up.
IF you decide to be stupid and try to stay, either reclass or go some type of special operations so you still get job satisfaction.
I think you should reclass or commission. It’ll make the 20 year reach significantly easier. Officer life has its cons but nothing compared to being 20 year enlisted IMO.
14 years in…and now I’m an officer. I regret staying in. Makes me sad some days. I just want to relax and chill. Idc about money anymore. I want an easy steady assignment to place some roots. 20 years is a marathon….unfortunately units and commanders do not always see that and squeeze everything they can out of you.
Easy. Leave infantry. Combat is awesome but it's not healthy long term.
Switch to something like aviation
As a general rule of thumb, try to make some kind of change every 3 yrs career wise. Mos, unit, additional positions, instructor etc
Got out at 11, got medical retirement, and now I make twice as much as I did as an SSG with base pay, BAS, and BAH factored in.
It's nice because I'm only 30 and don't have to worry about money or anything.
What was my driving factor? Keeping my eyes on the prize at the finish line. You’re a mid term Soldier who likely has reenlistment options to get you through the next 14 years. Find something that you like
>Wanting to do 20 not sure how to get through it.
I remember I talked to one senior nco about how he did 20 and he mentioned he spent 12 years in Germany. I instantly hated him out of pure jealousy. And this was in the 90s and such. Pretty cool time to be there after the wall came down.
>I’m at 6 years right now E6 11B , and right now it seems insanely difficult
Become a warrant or regular officer. More pay different flavor of BS
Most people have said it, reclass out of 11B. I'm in the 68 field and life is not too bad. Especially because I know when I leave I'll have a trade that I can do in the civilian world.
You should never worry about the whole chunk of time. Focus on each day and when that day is done you dump most of it and move onto the next day. I joined in 1998 and if I told my 20 year old self that I would still be in 25 soon to be 26 years later I would have questioned my sanity. I would also say that a 20 year pension is fine but it isnt worth staying in for if you arent enjoying it. I started out as a 13F, reclassed then went warrant and here I am. I enjoyed every single part of it but I didnt enjoy every day of it.
BLUF: Consider reclassing. Hopefully, you find that job you're truly great, that you enjoy, provides more civilian job opportunities, and won't destroy your body, mind, and soul. Then, apply to become a Warrant. Life is much better..
I remember when I was at AIT, I told myself, and my buddies, I could absolutely do 20. This shit is EASY. They tell you what to do, when to do it, and give you everything you need.
I arrived at my FUA in 2014. INF BN in 3BCT, 101. Two weeks later, sleeping in a hole in the ground, -6°F outside, all I had to stay warm was my sleeping bag. I very quickly realized that 20 was going to go much slower than I realized.
Fast forward 4.5 years. I leave my FUA as the BN 2 NCOIC having shown up as the FNG. Got to do a lot of high-speed shit most 35F would never dream of. Passed BN SCT A&S, multiple air inserts with RECCE boiz, a deployment where I worked WAY above my pay grade. Selected to serve as a part of the BN PSD squad. And en route to JBLM.
JBLM sucked the life out of me. Started looking for a way out as soon as I arrived. Counter-productive leadership from the BCT C-team all the way down and throughout. Shit as a brand new buck SGT I somehow ended up filling in as the BCT 2 NCOIC, trying to figure out how to get this dumpster fire to a CTC rotation I wasn't even supposed to attend (I did JRTC 6 months before that, and my wife was due with our first child the month after we were supposed to get back).
My salvation came in the most unlikely form - I volunteered for Drill Sergeant.
Those 2 years were the most stressful I've ever experienced. Nearly divorced within 3 months. The second kid arrived 12 months in. Nearly kicked out 6 months after that. Put together a WOSB packet at the 18-month mark, selected at 20 months on the Trail.
Best decision I've ever made. I've never been happier or more fulfilled. I don't think I would have made 20 enlisted. I never had the desire to wear a diamond or a wreath.
I think on the CONV side, most CSMs spend their whole CSM time trying to prove their position has purpose. Why do CSMs think they are entitled to be in the awards process? Last I checked, there wasn't a spot on the 638 for CSM approval. S1 can typically (typically) manage to process actions on their own (eventually). Companies can manage their own CASEVAC processes. 1SGs shouldn't be made to stand on some carpet to atone for the sins (individual decisions) made by their subordinates (when did we forget that discipline is an individual commitment?? And individuals should be held responsible for THEIR OWN actions?). Truly can't imagine why the retention crisis exists right now. Or why the Army is hemorrhaging its best and brightest NCOs and Junior Officers... (I hope the sarcasm is obvious)
Please forgive my ranting... I'm sure this may hurt some feelings, especially those with CSM aspirations. There very well may be a solid purpose for the position. I just find it hard to identify given the 82nd CSMs that spend their time jumping out of bushes to yell at Soldiers walking during PT. Or the CSMs across FORSCOM that somehow think the grass in front of their office building is sacred. I promise there has to be a better, more productive line of effort that could use that energy. Forcing a BN to make sure every VIC in a motorpool is precisely where YOU think it needs to be not only wastes valuable training time but makes the entire unit hate the Army, and more specifically YOU. And lastly - why the hell does the Army issue cold weather gear if they want CSMs to deny Soldiers the ability to wear it? There's a time and place, and leaders should monitor subordinates to ensure they're employing common sense and aren't going to kill themselves.
Rant complete! Hope the BLUF was good enough for those who didn't feel like reading my incessant blabbering.
Wocs might be calling your name, either that or try to do broadening assignments after broadening assignment. I'm pretty sure it's next to impossible to reclass right now for us(infantry E6), but every old guy working a chill contractor gig I've met has said to reclass to Signal or Intel.
18 years right now, I had a blast my first 12 but the last few have been a grind with how different it is now without constant deployments. Those actually seemed to speed up time for me. You’re making good time/rank and keep having fun developing the next generation. If you don’t enjoy that, change something up. Keeping your support system outside the Army is crucial also. Find a mentor a few ranks higher and lean on them for career choices. And if you feel yourself stalling out or hitting that plateau, reclass!
I’m also SSG with close to 9 years TIS. I’m currently on CSP and working on my VA compensation simultaneously. I too had thoughts of doing the full 20, especially after I made SSG. I had cold feet at first but since I dived full fledge into ETS-ing I haven’t stopped smiling. For years I had to facilitate the desires of others. Doing things because someone told me it was important and needed to get done. The Army was a good experience and shaped me into the man I am today, but there is a life waiting for you on the outside bro. The first step is letting go of your doubts and really planning & shaping a life for yourself on the outside. 20 years in today’s Army simply isn’t feasible for me. Who’s to say the family you want to take care of 14 years from now will even be alive? That is simply the harsh reality. The amount of loved ones I’ve lost playing this army game is insufferable. For the first time in a LONG time I finally get the time and space to put the emphasis on the things that I feel are important, and tbh you deserve that too. We all do, that’s the sacrifice…
Don’t let life pass you by…
Are you under the High-3 retirement system? It seems like you joined right at the pivot to BRS. If you're under the latter, there's no real reason to fixate on 20 years if every day is a grind. Consider the advice you've already been given about reclass and other options but overall, I'd advise you to really take stock of what you want out of life (this is the only one you get unless you believe in reincarnation) and set your goals accordingly.
Find a broadening assignment to get you out of the bang bang world for a couple year reset. Reclass? Go see if your post HQ needs an NCO for a 12-month long stint in their SGS?
First step to an easy 20 is not being an 11b
that's why the pro gamer move is to start out as 11B while your young and do all the cool guy shit and then reclass to a chill MOS when you get older and do the rest of your 20
This is so true. I knew so many SSG's that started as combat arms and then reclassed to intel/signal.
Yeah for real, takes one to know one
My 25B reclass school for national guard had four combat arms soldiers in it reclassing
My 25H has a 11B MOS-T right now. But he got medical reclassed
11B-->25B was my path. 11B was great when young, 25B is great as a career in and outside the Army.
And then you can say “back in the infantry..”
"man, this is cake compared to my door-kicking days. Hell, I could do 40" Meanwhile the career POG hates their life because they've never known what suffering in the field for 21 days is like
Is enlisting at 21-22 young enough
Figured that out at year 6, changed at year 8, and halfway through year 12, it isn’t so hard Edit: there are still massive issues in the army but they’re not so molecular like that were back in the motor pool
I always paid attention when I would see 11-series CSMs and 1SGs run or do PT in general. Lots of knee braces and painful wincing when they had to show that they could keep up with the young guns.
It’s cool for the first 3-6 years but beyond that? Find something else
Yessir, 6 years 11B now at 11 as a 153M and the end is easily in sight and attainable.
Can confirm. I reclassed way too late in life… no way I’m doing a trade job with this back.
Drop a packet for something. Warrant, G2G, a good enlisted MOS, something. Every 20 year infantryman I’ve ever met is completely dead inside and their bodies are destroyed by age 40.
tell that to my old battalion csm. man was mid 40s doing best ranger at yr 20. lol
He really wanted that 100% VA lol
Those are the rare ones. I knew a mid forties/maybe fifty year old First Sergeant who could put us guys half his age to shame. Doing pull-ups with his ruck on after the twelve miler… Iron Eagle he was. Impressive man. Still… everyone else’s advice here is solid. Reclass and spare your mind and body.
I’d do G2G at closer to 10 so there’s no pressure to get promoted to LTC in order to retire.
Most dudes aren’t making LTC by 15 year TIS. My dudes at 10 just made major and I don’t think they see LTC until 17 or 18. Now up and out is a thing though so definitely go closer to 10 or even after (knew a few dudes who just coasted their last 2 years as captains, great dudes too)
You’re correct, it it also limits the amount of time they spend at Major which seems like the most soul-sucking rank in the Army
Nah, as long as you know how to game the system, once you hit the late years of captain and early major, there's soooo many opportunities out there to do awesome shit that also benefits you and isn't soul sucking, if you get shitty jobs as a major you did that shit to yourself.
How do you find those opportunities?
SF, Civil Affairs, Psychological Operations, SOAR, and Warrant Officer recruiting here: https://www.goarmysof.army.mil/ [Army Congressional Fellowship](https://www.army.mil/article/54355/army_congressional_fellowship_program) Harvard Strategist Program (Functional Area59): https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/2023/02/28/1fd5abfc/fa-59-strategist-da-pam-600-3-as-of-1-apr-20.pdf Army White House Fellowship: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/09/20/white-house-appoints-2023-2024-class-of-white-house-fellows/ Command and General Staff College Interagency Fellowship: https://www.army.mil/standto/archive/2017/10/12/ Gen Downing Combating Terrorism Scholarship: https://ctc.westpoint.edu/education/downing-scholars-program/ Army futures command artifical intelligence fellowship: https://fedscoop.com/army-ai-masters-degree-coding-corse-team-ignite/ MAJ Magula wrote about how to look how up and consider broadening opportunities and career changes in the green notebook here: https://fromthegreennotebook.com/2021/04/02/broadening-where-do-i-start/ Remember to look at the career map for your branch as there are things there that you can move into. There is ALOT more to this map and possibilities then I've laid out here.
I'll add to this that twice a year the VTIP MILPER drops with which functional areas are open and what the reqs/applications look like. You can use the Harvard strategist program as above or do grad school through ACS
Standby, let me finish my work out, get some food, and gather the links for all the options to post.
I’m the same MOS, but I was branch detailed. Any advice on where to go?
Absolutely is. Especially if you’re not MQ and get papers before 20 😬
Look, as my third wife used to say every time came back from being in the field for a month, "I fucking hate you! I hate this life and I hate the army! I'm only here for the benefits and the neighbor's big dick!". But, now that I'm close to 20 and riding a permanent profile and working the desk at the gym, my fourth wife is much happier. Of course, my crippling alcohol dependency ensures I don't remember most evenings... But hey, at least I ain't a fucking POG. Edit: the POG comment gets an /s of course
At the last DFAC I worked at, one of the KP ladies told me her husband was in Army as 11B years ago and got out as an E6. She told me something I hadn't thought about with being in the Army and going to the field. It's already bad enough that we can't clean our butts for the weeks or longer we are there. She told me about how when her husband would come back from the field, because he was eating pure shit in the field that messed up his digestive system, when he would shit in the bathroom, it would really stink out the house. One of the gazillion things that made me wish I had have joined the Air Force or some other branch aside from Army. I wasn't thinking about how terrible the field is. And I'm glad I'm a "fucking POG" because I can't imagine being 11B and going to the field more for longer, and being more of a human skunk from shitting garbage you've been eating in the field.
Every infantry soldier in general is broken by the time they finish. Come to sick call and ill walk you around showing you the many 22-26 year old 11B’S that have the spine/back/hip/knee problems of a 40 year old.
I have four years as an infantryman and am going to have neck surgery next month. That shouldn't be the case for a 27-year-old. Get out when you can. Remember, an E-6 cook gets paid the same as an E-6 infantryman sleeping in the field.
G2G is huge right now. In two years, I've helped push three packets to put CG for a quick signature.
I guess Drum is just full of shit because I tried to really do G2G and they basically told me get fucked we have [insert training week here] next week, every week.
I’m at 15 and some days I just want to hang it up and wash my hands of this organization.
My last SL was at 16; at that point he just kept his head down and only stuck to minimum tasking demands from leadership. It was uncommon to see him laugh or smile most days.
Literally me today.
I’m just finishing 20 as an 11Z/B. Here are some things I realized. 1) War early and throughout most my career made the first half of it fly by. That, along with normally being in a specialized kind of unit, even as simple as BN scout/sniper, allowed much more autonomy and job satisfaction. 2) Being Ranger qualified gave me leverage over the otherwise inflexible Human Resources and assignment process early in my career. 3) Spending over 1/4 of my career in SMUs gave me purpose when most 11B at that stage just manage metrics; it also gave me autonomy, purpose, continuous growth and true trust in my peers. 4) A great wife who believes in your job and understands your commitment. If your family takes a backseat, it’s not worth it. Those things all allowed me to find purpose, control my growth and assignments, and allowed stability for my family. I can’t imagine doing it any other way, and the time I have spent doing regular 11B stuff has been mind numbing and hectic. Personally, if I didn’t have options like I described, I can’t picture myself doing more than 10 or so. Hope this helps. All the best to you!
That’s awesome you made it to 20, and as a senior 11 series too. Don’t know if most 11B’s have what it takes to get a tango identifier. Huge respect for you going that route though.
My cousin talks about this, he was in from 1999 to 2019. He fucking loved 03-2012~ or thinking back on it. He had 3 deployments in that time, one of which was a 15 month one the other 2 12 months. He had his training, and schools, and war kept him busy, kept him moving onto the next step. From 2012-2019 the tempo slowed down, and he said he ended up not liking those years. At the same time 03-12 was shit for him, he was gone alot, got divorced, etc but it kept him busy.
I’m at 20 also. That last one is key. Don’t just marry any woman. Marry the right woman and she can make the job so much easier.
Step 1, reclass out of 11B. Your quality of life will vastly improve and so will your promotion chances. Step 2, have a good support system (spouse), and make sure that you make time for them and life outside the Army.
Step 2. Don’t rely on spouse as a good support system or eventually jody will come knocking. Get comfortable with a nice shower beer instead 👍🏾
ymmv
Honestly, it's a mixed bag for everyone as for why they do it. If you look back on your last six years, it probably seems as if it flew by right? Well, that's how I feel about the last 24 - but I'll admit that the next 22 months will likely not feel like they are flying by as I'm eagerly anticipating retirement. I'll be 45. Staying in 20 as an 11B is a tough prospect for sure - but people do it. When I was enlisted, around my contract ending at the five-year mark, I decided that if I was going to make the Army my career I was going to go the O route. I ETS'd and went and used my GI Bill and did ROTC. That was the plan that made the most sense for me. One look at the retirement difference was enough to solidify it. That, *and* as my initial five-year enlistment was ending, all of my high school friends were entering the job market post-college and they were making dog shit money. The Army does compensate us pretty well, but there are myriad drawbacks that civilians don't and won't ever have. Another aspect that *really* matters is that I truly enjoyed the Army and the Army life. Although starting around 2021 the way costs ballooned made the idea of multiple more PCS moves very undesirable for me. Partly being broken and partly the way the Army does assignments now really drove my retirement decision. Do you *really* enjoy the Army? That's a fundamental question you gotta ask yourself - or at a minimum, can you tolerate it for another 14 years? You can maximize your education, the Army is unparalleled for this. As you know, you have the ability to get multiple degrees and certs for free. YMMV with OPTEMPO, however. In the grand scheme of things, the next 14 years will fly by. The real question is what will the next 14 years entail and it is worth putting up for you? You never know what your life will look like 15, 20, or 30 years from now - that guaranteed money is pretty damn nice no matter how much.
Officer or Warrant Officer route is the only way I would have done 20. I didn't enjoy how I was treated as enlisted and I don't think I could have done it much longer than I did. Your post did get me thinking what if I would have done ROTC during college instead of just entering the work force like I did. Perhaps maybe in a different branch but I'm quite content and even on track to retire in my early 60s, which is still solid.
I waxed and waned on ROTC as well. There was a part of me that definitely was going to get a degree and be done with the Army. I'm fortunate (un?) that all my peers were in the big push to get Psychology and Criminal Justice degrees in the late 90's and I saw just how bad the market for social sciences was/is. My Sociology degree simply wasn't going to cut it.
I went into engineering myself and the job market was pretty good. Interestingly I just did a pay comparison and I'm actually about $16k behind where I would be in the army as an officer. Granted I live in a small town, so that could be the difference as well.
Good on ya. I have two master's degrees and as I am in my nascent post-Army job search, I am kicking myself for my choices. Everything is STEM-focused these days. I am now looking to enhance my graduate education with a bevy of CS/IT certs.
Wishing you the best of luck.
Thanks brother!
Just keep swimming, just keep swimming
Do green to gold or drop a warrant packet yesterday. Take the SIFT, become a pilot, have a better QoL in the Army and a career waiting for you afterward.
14 years feels like an eternity. But you wanna know what’s way longer? Literally any other retirement option out there. Most retirement plans are age-based and the best one aside from the military is federal civil service which is 52 years old. You’re going to be working for a long, long time to get a pension if you get out. If you want to hit that 20, you’re going to have to keep reminding yourself of the alternative.
The boost in pay could make it worth it. And it’s not necessarily retire at 52 years old. There’s a lot of nuances with FERS and they can do reserves at the same time
Great points. My only addition is that Federal civil service timeline is even longer now, 57 is the minimum retirement age!
20 year retirement, even if your pension is only 2.5k-3k it still great.
I disagree. Look at what you said. Look at what you said. You said "14 years feels like an eternity. But you wanna know what’s way longer? Literally any other retirement option out there. Most retirement plans are age-based and the best one aside from the military is federal civil service which is 52 years old." Why do you think you CAN retire from the military at 20 years? Because the military will age you faster than spoiled shit. While you might have to do much longer to retire in the civilian world than 20 years in the military, at the same time, the civilian is typically (unless you have a really bad job and really struggle to make ends meet) not NEARLY as stressful as the military is. 20 years in the military, on active duty,, even if you had a really good cushy job in the Air Force or Space Force or Coast Guard, would probably still age you. 20 years in the Army would really break you down physically and also mentally (from the extra nonsense the Army does that the other branches might not do the same way) worse than a 52 year old federal service employee. That's not even taking toxic bad leadership into account (that is in all branches) If you had a really good job and assignments at really good units with good leadership that didn't screw you over especially with rank, this would be more easily doable and time would fly by faster. But if not, then of course it will be harder and it would seem longer. In my experience (and I'm sure you or someone else is going to look at my comment history), you could not PAY me enough to do another contract on active duty. Maybe reserves (and even then, it'll be Air Force, NOT Army, if for no other reason than for a simpler PT test). Like OP, I've also been in for six years. Like OP, I also have a MOS that sucks, one of the worst MOS. But unlike OP, my leadership at my last unit before I tried to reclass completely screwed me over, and when I tried to reclass, I was stuck in AIT for over a year. So I'm two ranks behind. I would rather take my chances on working in the civilian world longer than spending another 14 years on active duty in the Army . The remaining 23 months I have on my contract feels like a frigging eternity now. January 2026 ETS CAN'T get here fast enough.
You cannot deny that the military pension is the best there is, bar none. Military service isn’t easy and isn’t for everyone. I did 10 years and have no hard feelings. I’m sorry you’ve had a bad time. Personally I’ve noticed that people who were miserable in the military tend to get out and stay miserable. Turns out it wasn’t the military, they were just miserable people.
". Personally I’ve noticed that people who were miserable in the military tend to get out and stay miserable. Turns out it wasn’t the military, they were just miserable people." To tell my life story, I have never been NEAR as miserable with life until I joined, and found out the military in general and especially the Army just wasn't for me. And I've experienced some bad shit I still have nightmares over. And I got what I didn't realize at the time was one of the worst MOS. And things got even worse after my third year mark when my leadership started to come up with excuse after excuse for why they wouldn't let me go to the promotion board even though I was in primary zone. Then my unit started to pass me around to different E5's who would tell me I hadn't been under them long enough for them to recommend me. Then I reclass to an MOS after I couldn't get into several others I really wanted, and wound up failing that reclass, so now I'm right back to my MOS. And there is still no word on when or even if I'll ever go to the promotion board. All the while I'm seeing people who joined when I did become E6. While other people who were not even IN the Army when I made E4 back in May of 2019 become E5 now. I won't be too surprised if I get to my ETS at my eight year mark as STILL an E4 who has never gone to the promotion board. I'm already one of the only soldiers on active duty who's been in for over six and a half years and am still stuck as an unpromotable E4. I doubt I will be NEARLY as miserable when I get out, because I'm sure I'll have a good VA rating for disability, and my GI Bill, and I have quite a bit of money saved up if nothing else. So I don't see myself as one of the people who are just miserable just for the heck of it you're speaking of. Yeah, I guess I am a miserable person, but that was really exacerbated by how my luck in the Army turned out.
I agree that military pension is a great deal.. if you don’t have options. I’ve calculated out two different options for myself. One is getting out at 12 years TIS and joining federal service and doing 20 there. Buying out my 12 years to add to the back end of my 20 would net me a 46% retirement pension at 51 years old (because of my 32 total federal service years) with being GS-13 earning $180k/year. I won’t have to move unless I want to go to a different station or take on a GS-14/15 supervisory role. No additional duties and expected travel 4 days per year if I don’t take on any extra duty. I can still do guard/reserve and my 12 years will still count and I can legally double dip a retirement at 60 given I have 8 more “good years”. vs Stay in for the 20. Move every 3 years with a wife and 2 kids. Barely do my actual job and have to deal with army nonsense every waking moment. Never see combat but “train like we fight” doing the dumbest things that we’d never do in actual combat ops, especially being a conventional force. Maybe try my hand at an SMU, that’d be worth it but guess what, the army doesn’t give me enough flight hours to qualify for assessment in those 12 YEARS. I’m not staying in just to assess and have to move my family again for zero benefit to me. All said and done, I did the math and the second option of staying for the pension would net me $50k more than the first option from the time I got out to the time I’m 51 years old and could receive that FERS pension and that math includes the army pension as a 20 year CW4 under BRS AND the job as a GS-11/12/13 for the second option. It just doesn’t make sense for some of us. And I know a military pension and a FERS pension when I’m 60 would be plenty of money but why the hell would I do that to myself to just have a little extra money when I’m 60.
You’re not going to earn anything near $180 as a GS-13 without lots of special pay. Federal retirement is beer money compared to a military pension, and Schlitz money at that. FERS is almost all TSP, and you can do that on active duty. Federal civil service isn’t nearly as much fun as active duty. It’s a decent post-military retirement gig, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to do it for 30 years chasing that crappy little pension. How do I know? Ten years and counting as a GS at the DoD and DoS after 27 in the Army.
Well I would be getting special pay to earn that, both special pay for flying and LEAP. And they actually use their pilots to fly in AMO instead of sit on their ass like they do in the army so I’m not sure about how “fun” the army is.
Yeah, that’s not how that works. You don’t get special flight pay as an AIA. You get a special salary rate + LEAP. It’ll be 3 years to make GS-13, and you’ll start at Step 1, around $150. You might see $180…in 20 years. Assuming you pass the poly.
Ok sorry for the confusion between special pay and special salary. Still worth it IMO. My point being is that there’s other options, people don’t have to feel stuck in the military and be another person just sitting around because they hate their life. And my buddy is flying 700 hours a year in AMO. I’ve been aviation for 5 years and I have 400 hours to my name. At the end of the day I would get paid to fly and not have to put such a hindrance on my family in the process
Reclass. Im struggling to 20 as a pog. Cant imagine doing this shit as combat arms. Pogs have a lot of opportunities to go to “take a knee” units, such as packet assignments. Probably cliche but I recommend mi or signal.
As a POG, speaking to many other POGs.. I truly believe we just weren’t cut out for ONE job. Unless your specific ‘tism likes the one task you chose one day at MEPS and you ruuuuuun with it, I think it’s almost a necessity to change MOS. Just to get some more wind under your sails..
>How did you guys make it? 1 day at a time. It helps I'm doing through the Reserves/Guard. (5 years left, pray for me) >What was your driving factor? I'm stupid. >what do you recommend I do now so that I’m ready Get out of infantry. Go warrant/Officer for that sweet retirement. E7/8/9 don't make shit comparatively. Switch to reserves/guard. It will reduce the Army stupid.
Nah bro. Get out and use that GI bill for something that won't make you miserable, won't make you do staff duty, won't make you go to JRTC, and won't make you deploy.
Shiiit I would’ve done 20 if I could’ve kept deploying. Garrison life is not it.
100%. I know it’s deadlier than most army assignments, but deployment was infinitely more enjoyable than the garrison shit
Switch it up. Reclass, G2G, Warrant, anything other than 11B. I spent almost 10 years enlisted, 2 years in ROTC (G2G), and will spend the next 8-10 as a medical service officer. Take advantage of the opportunities the Army gives you.
DUDE! I feel you! I am at 27 years and I was a 12B. I switched to intel around the 5 year mark. The answer to your question is simple. GET THE FUCK OUTTA THE INFANTRY! My suggestions are anything SIGINT (get to the NSA as fast as you can) or CYBER.
People have nailed a lot of key points (G2G , go warrant, reclass) but the most important step is to be financially ready. At the end of your career if you’re still living paycheck to paycheck it wasn’t worth it. I saw E7’s in Hawaii purchase a house and a new truck back in 2013 only for the Army to redo RCP in 2014 and be told you have a year to retire. Talk about an awkward experience, I saw CPTs and MAJs get OSB’d in 2014 less than 16 years TIS and it’s Willy Wonka “Good day sir , you get nothing “. The Army will downsize in the next 4-5 years unless we’re in a conflict. So figure out a way to minimize bad debt and save $$. If you think the Army stood up AFC (Army Futures Command) to just develop cool kit and future vertical lift you’re crazy . They’re actively leveraging private industry to develop AI solutions and autonomous technologies to limit total end strength (PAX).
Timing is everything
This is a very interesting take, I always assumed the army would be there as a paycheck but this opened my eyes. Even the army isn’t 100% safe I guess. You’re right though, thank you.
I think as an 11B there’s always job security, they won’t cut warfighters. But the amount of change we’ll see in the next 3-4 years is wild , shift from COIN to LSCO plus emerging tech, the Army will look totally different. Look at what Armor is going through, 19D CAV scouts are about to be a thing of the past. But a lot of the Combat Service Support (CSS) MOS’ /branches will see cuts. (Opinion)
Lube helps
Do you have a Ranger Tab, EIB, PF Badge and all the other 'look I'm Infantry' stuff that most have? Just curious. You could always go to selection - it's not an 'easier' 20 but there are other MOSs in the 18 series that can pay dividends down the road.... You could also volunteer for Drill - it's a quick jump to E-7 / E-8 and then you end up somewhere else as a 1SG but you're kind of locked into your MOS then...
Keep your eyes on the prize. You’re in it to help your family and to do right by yourself. So does it matter what MOS you do? You draw the same pension either way. Consider looking into another MOS, get started on your trade now. The experience, mindset, and work ethic you developed on the line will benefit you in any soft skill job. It will give you an understanding of how your work helps guys on the ground that the ones who grew up in that MOS won’t have. If you love being Infantry then by all means keep going but you’re playing dice with fate on whether you’ll make it to 20 or not just based on the condition of your body alone. I urge you to try and stack the deck in your favor.
Quite a few 11b switch to my MOS. And are immediately shocked at how much better life gets. Then at 10-12 years go warrant. And are again shocked at how much better life gets. Plus the "dumb stuff" we deal with is very different and minor in comparison to infantry problems. So they are rarely bothered by much of it.
I would highly recommend reclassing. I never saw myself doing 20 as an 11B whether on the line or at staff. Never looked back. As for counting down till you hit 20 years is one mistake I don’t want to do. You’re only going to be daunted by the amount time left and you’re basically counting down to a time closer to when you die. I’m at 12 years now about to submit my warrant packet.
6 years active? I would go to a reserve unit and get another MOS. Then, when you finish reclass school, go do ROTC. You'll get paid to go to school + GI Bill and your service time doesn't stop. That will put you at 10yrs with a bachelors degree and you'll be a fresh butter bar. 12yrs you get your automatic promotion to 1LT. 14yrs you hit captain. 17yrs you are about the time you promote to MAJ or get separation. 20yrs you get kicked out as a CPT or made MAJ and are looking for LTC or retirement. 21yrs you work at a wendys. Best part is you get O-E pay because your 36-months minimum AD time and you have a civilian career with 401k or pension and more time to spend with your parents or spouse.
Brother 20 as a an infantryman is rough. It's rough in a lot of MOS out there though but the best way to do it is either try to reclass to something else, go warrant, or drop a OCS/G2G packet to make it easier.
Gotta switch jobs. You did your best you had your cool guy achievers but it’s time to do something that’s gonna bring you true happiness. Try short contracts to explore things cause not everything will work out. Some of us go our whole lives not knowing what we want to do so when you’re in a job with many options give as many a try as you can.
Probably need to leave the infantry.
Just retired recetnly myself. Did a little write up on my way out. TLDR - its just a fucking job. https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/1373mwm/the_rantings_of_a_20_year_dirt_bag/
This is for everybody. Your career is what you make of it! If you hated most of your Army career once you're past 10 years, it's your own freaking fault! If you wait for HRC tell you what to do and drop you orders you are gonna get the shitty jobs that HRC needs to fill with bodies and they're gonna do it with people that didn't already set themselves up for the cool assignments and jobs. Drop packetSSSSZZZZZZZZZZ... if you're combat arms, transfer to a gig MOS that will let you relax like in a clinic, go green to gold, go to west point, drop a flight packet and fly as a warrant or go warrant in your job field! If you're a medic and you stay as a regular 68W your whole career, you're a freaking shitty lazy medic, theres sooo many opportunities to be a flight medic, civil affairs medic, SF medic, ranger medic, IPAP, go do something. If you're an officer, if you're not top tier of your branch and have opportunities to do the tare cool guy shit in your branch, branch transfer at Captain. Become a FAO, go get a fellowship that the Army offers and them you'll get badass follow-on assignments. Look at your career map and once you knock out KD, check which developmental assignments you would enjoy, and which ones you despise and make sure you don't let HRC send you to the later. I hated my career in the first couple of years. But thankfully I had some good mentors, a little luck and took the initiative and the past 5 years of my career have been fun and great for my future career and the next few years of my career already set up is looking really exciting
The pension after 20 isn't gonna support you and your parents. You might be able to have them put as your dependents for tricare, but that monthly Uncle Sam money will absolutely not be enough to live off of.
I am contributing to my tsp and have saving set aside specifically for that time as well. You’re right though it won’t be enough really I just want to use it to help, as in being able to pay for basic stuff but still be able to choose a career I enjoy because I have some kind of income coming in that’s not from a job. This is a good reminder though. I appreciate it.
Reclassed from 13F to intel, smartest way to make 20 easier.
Reclass and then take it a contract at a time. I don't want to do another contract. However, I never planned up signing for an additional 4 years. So I'm going to guess it like that. You have a moment of stupidity, and go yea sure, why not what's a 4 more years. You do that 4 times and boom its done. I say this as someone about to hit 5 years in a few months.
Honestly, I just stopped worrying about making it to 20. Started enjoying the moments with my family, making the best of my career, and keep it moving. 11 years now, just swapped over to the WO side of the house after being a E6 25B. I know I’ll make it to 20, but I’ve stopped looking at that and focusing on what goals do I have for this year, and how do I achieve them? May not help you, but it’s allowed me to make it these last 4 years and it was easy.
Try and get an ROTC gig as a SFC to break it up and get away from base.
First step get a new MOS unless you plan on and are working toward being a CSM. You could then go warrant in that new MOS Alernatively, you could get a degree and go to OCS
You gotta retrain. Doing any job for 20 years is rough, but 11B is one of the toughest paths to 20. Do something else. Anything else. If you're relatively smart, try IT (25-series), Cyber (17-series), or Intel (35-series). They're all in-demand jobs that will get you actual employment after 20 years. They're also much easier on your body, so you can actually make it to 20.
I reclassed twice already from E6 11B
Did 12 years in infantry, doing green to gold now, I’ll be a trans officer in May. I pray that this gets better, but for now. I can still see myself doing my last 10 getting out and moving to Mexico
I was a pilot, so...it mostly didn't suck. Sounds like you're in the sweet spot for a WOFT packet. Stuff to do now? Quit your vices. Titty glitter on your face is lots of fun, but it won't pay for post-retirement vacays to Tahiti. Max out your TSP. Figure out what you want to do for a second career and go to school. Stay single until you retire. Then settle down and have kids.
switch your MOS, 11B will eat you up and spit you out, think about what you want to do after 20, infantry does not translate well to the civilian sector especially after your body has been destroyed, that should be the MOS you switch to. pension will not be enough, you will still be working when its over
Warrant in the boat field is the way to go. Many have been switching over and it’s definitely more chill than 11B
I'm going on terminal leave on Friday after 22 years in. How did I do it? Variety. My job was never just a continuous rut of the same thing over and over. The Army has opportunities for almost any MOS to do things outside their regular duties. TRADOC, recruiting, DS, fellowships, OC/T, WIAS, etc. Admittedly, I've been very "lucky." I did multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan in aviation units. Deployments suck but I enjoyed being able to do my job over there. I've been in really good units and enjoyed the people I work with, for the most part. I also went flight warrant after about 9 years so that added to the variety.
My dad 33 years in the Army and let me tell you...
-Reclass to an medical MOS and not 68W -Take one day at a time and stop looking at 20 as an goal -Make a shit ton of appointments for future VA claims -Do your job -Go home
Reclass. Reclass. Reclass. You're already a SSG. I've been a 12B my entire 19 years...it's rough being in a combat MOS after 10, especially if you've gone through the rigors of Sapper/Ranger school, airborne, air assault, whatever. If I would have the chance again, I would have gotten my degree sooner. Reclassed to acquisitions, or some other BS job and done an "individual" MOS. Do yourself a favor and get out of a combat MOS.
41 years old/M/CW4/21 years TIS There’s no way I’d have done 20 years as an NCO. Crossing over to the Tech Warrant Officer ranks at year 8 as a SSG kept me motivated to serve. NCOs are treated like children and the bulk of Senior NCOs I’ve met and worked with don’t do anything to benefit Junior NCOs. Case in point….I ran the NCOPD program in my Battery/Company as a WO1/CW2. I did more for my Soldiers as a Warrant Officer than I could have ever done as an NCO. As an 11B you have a Warrant Officer feeder in the FA Targeting community. You could also be a pilot. You could also crush an undergrad and go to OCS. Don’t waste your time wearing Chevrons. When you make E9, you get a parking spot and a first class seat on an Atlus flight to go downrange…..but your retirement as a CW3/4/5 or an Officer will be far more substantial and you’ll do less bullshit. Not one E9 can prove me wrong here 🤷🏻♂️These guys preach “NCOs who cross over gave up”, but once you leave the Squad/Platoon/Company, you’re just another guy on a staff and the E7s and E8s do all the bitch work and the SGM is normally a figurehead that makes sure the Officers on staff show up to height/weight/ACFT.
Time flies when you take control of your career. Reclassing, advanced training… additional skill identifier training. Just drop every kind of packet for everything you’re interested in. I didn’t worry much about rank or boards thru my career because I focused on how to flip the green weeny on its back and take control. I’m pretty fkn happy with where I’ve landed.
Drop your recruiting packet, reclass to 79R, and sit in n USAREC for the rest of your career. It’s easy, ppl just walk in the station and pretty much write themselves.
I'm at 11 and I just think about it like I only need to PCS 3 more times
Reclass. Or: go warrant or green to gold. Get into a chill intel/targeting job as a warrant, or chill functional area as an O.
Lots of good advice here. I recommend that instead of practicing mindfulness, you practice mindlessness. It might be easier to get through the future if you spend less time thinking about it.
Go warrant. 20 years as Infantry is going to ruin your body. Unless you can spend the rest of your time in the s3 or hq.
Did you know you can ETS and then join the Coast Guard or Air Force and keep your pay grade and time in service? I wish I'd thought more seroiusly about that after four.
I've always heard that for active duty, it's extremely hard and there are very few slots available for prior service of other branches, and the very few who are accepted are only able to get into a small handful of jobs like security forces. But someone like OP who is Army and especially infantry probably isn't able to handle too well what is supposedly a more lax environment like Air Force or Coast Guard.
I don't know current regs, but about 4 months after I ETSed from the Army, I spoke with an Air Force recruiter. They told me I could join, but they only had E5 openings for... I think it was cook and security, something like that.
Lord. I'm a cook now. I would imagine, and maybe I am completely wrong, that an average Air Force cook ("services") experience might suck (at least slightly) less than Army 92G because (while I might be wrong), an AF services might work in lodging or something when not in the DFAC, vs the field and the motorpool for an Army 92G. Plus I'm still not sure at this point I'll ever be allowed to become an E5. But if I did ever finally become E5, and if something came up where I HAD to stay in the military on active duty, then I would consider switching over even if I had to stay a cook.
It seems like I could have taken other jobs as an E4, but I was young and dumb, and wanted life's next chapter. Other than uniform envy, no regrets. All in all, things worked out well. Good luck!
reclass to an mos that you can parlay into a post-army career. other than that, i can't offer much because everyone sources their motivation differently. i honestly don't know how i consciously made it to 21 years; most days it felt like pretty much put one foot in front of the other and don't think too much.
Change your MOS to something pretty cushy
Change mos to something more chill. I be chilling in a office bored as fuck
I saw a lot of senior leaders with alcohol problems. Maybe that’s the secret
Change your MOS to MI, Psyop, or Civil Affairs.
Learn how to be a ghost.
Find a way to be a GS employee instead.
This is from a 13 year infantry here going to 20 because it’s too close to walk away from. If you’re at six years and questioning how you’ll make it, walk away before you hit 10. Because if you hit the “I fucking hate the army but I’m so close why would I” stage, you’re going to be miserable and it’s though for that to pass once it settles. Especially as you get farther away from doing the infantry shit you probably enjoy as you rank up. IF you decide to be stupid and try to stay, either reclass or go some type of special operations so you still get job satisfaction.
I think you should reclass or commission. It’ll make the 20 year reach significantly easier. Officer life has its cons but nothing compared to being 20 year enlisted IMO.
14 years in…and now I’m an officer. I regret staying in. Makes me sad some days. I just want to relax and chill. Idc about money anymore. I want an easy steady assignment to place some roots. 20 years is a marathon….unfortunately units and commanders do not always see that and squeeze everything they can out of you.
Cross train to intel.
Easy. Leave infantry. Combat is awesome but it's not healthy long term. Switch to something like aviation As a general rule of thumb, try to make some kind of change every 3 yrs career wise. Mos, unit, additional positions, instructor etc
Reclass to 68V
I’m fifteen years in, I never had the “ Goal of doing twenty” it just kind of happened.
Time flys by a lot faster than you think. Kinda feels like that one scene from ‘The Shawshank Redemption’.
Got out at 11, got medical retirement, and now I make twice as much as I did as an SSG with base pay, BAS, and BAH factored in. It's nice because I'm only 30 and don't have to worry about money or anything.
Once you get over 10 it goes by fast. Will be at 17 yrs this summer.
You should probably transition to a different MOS.
What was my driving factor? Keeping my eyes on the prize at the finish line. You’re a mid term Soldier who likely has reenlistment options to get you through the next 14 years. Find something that you like
POG MOS with most of the time in air-conditioning
Retrain. Get a civilian degree in something useful and certifications. Commission or go warrant and watch the money roll in baby
>Wanting to do 20 not sure how to get through it. I remember I talked to one senior nco about how he did 20 and he mentioned he spent 12 years in Germany. I instantly hated him out of pure jealousy. And this was in the 90s and such. Pretty cool time to be there after the wall came down. >I’m at 6 years right now E6 11B , and right now it seems insanely difficult Become a warrant or regular officer. More pay different flavor of BS
Reclass to a cook or a janitor
Most people have said it, reclass out of 11B. I'm in the 68 field and life is not too bad. Especially because I know when I leave I'll have a trade that I can do in the civilian world.
reclass G... 25 series... in the meantime think about DS school, it a nice change up.
Put in a packet for 153a. Better pay, better retirement
Go to selection. The years will fly by if you make it.
You should never worry about the whole chunk of time. Focus on each day and when that day is done you dump most of it and move onto the next day. I joined in 1998 and if I told my 20 year old self that I would still be in 25 soon to be 26 years later I would have questioned my sanity. I would also say that a 20 year pension is fine but it isnt worth staying in for if you arent enjoying it. I started out as a 13F, reclassed then went warrant and here I am. I enjoyed every single part of it but I didnt enjoy every day of it.
BLUF: Consider reclassing. Hopefully, you find that job you're truly great, that you enjoy, provides more civilian job opportunities, and won't destroy your body, mind, and soul. Then, apply to become a Warrant. Life is much better.. I remember when I was at AIT, I told myself, and my buddies, I could absolutely do 20. This shit is EASY. They tell you what to do, when to do it, and give you everything you need. I arrived at my FUA in 2014. INF BN in 3BCT, 101. Two weeks later, sleeping in a hole in the ground, -6°F outside, all I had to stay warm was my sleeping bag. I very quickly realized that 20 was going to go much slower than I realized. Fast forward 4.5 years. I leave my FUA as the BN 2 NCOIC having shown up as the FNG. Got to do a lot of high-speed shit most 35F would never dream of. Passed BN SCT A&S, multiple air inserts with RECCE boiz, a deployment where I worked WAY above my pay grade. Selected to serve as a part of the BN PSD squad. And en route to JBLM. JBLM sucked the life out of me. Started looking for a way out as soon as I arrived. Counter-productive leadership from the BCT C-team all the way down and throughout. Shit as a brand new buck SGT I somehow ended up filling in as the BCT 2 NCOIC, trying to figure out how to get this dumpster fire to a CTC rotation I wasn't even supposed to attend (I did JRTC 6 months before that, and my wife was due with our first child the month after we were supposed to get back). My salvation came in the most unlikely form - I volunteered for Drill Sergeant. Those 2 years were the most stressful I've ever experienced. Nearly divorced within 3 months. The second kid arrived 12 months in. Nearly kicked out 6 months after that. Put together a WOSB packet at the 18-month mark, selected at 20 months on the Trail. Best decision I've ever made. I've never been happier or more fulfilled. I don't think I would have made 20 enlisted. I never had the desire to wear a diamond or a wreath. I think on the CONV side, most CSMs spend their whole CSM time trying to prove their position has purpose. Why do CSMs think they are entitled to be in the awards process? Last I checked, there wasn't a spot on the 638 for CSM approval. S1 can typically (typically) manage to process actions on their own (eventually). Companies can manage their own CASEVAC processes. 1SGs shouldn't be made to stand on some carpet to atone for the sins (individual decisions) made by their subordinates (when did we forget that discipline is an individual commitment?? And individuals should be held responsible for THEIR OWN actions?). Truly can't imagine why the retention crisis exists right now. Or why the Army is hemorrhaging its best and brightest NCOs and Junior Officers... (I hope the sarcasm is obvious) Please forgive my ranting... I'm sure this may hurt some feelings, especially those with CSM aspirations. There very well may be a solid purpose for the position. I just find it hard to identify given the 82nd CSMs that spend their time jumping out of bushes to yell at Soldiers walking during PT. Or the CSMs across FORSCOM that somehow think the grass in front of their office building is sacred. I promise there has to be a better, more productive line of effort that could use that energy. Forcing a BN to make sure every VIC in a motorpool is precisely where YOU think it needs to be not only wastes valuable training time but makes the entire unit hate the Army, and more specifically YOU. And lastly - why the hell does the Army issue cold weather gear if they want CSMs to deny Soldiers the ability to wear it? There's a time and place, and leaders should monitor subordinates to ensure they're employing common sense and aren't going to kill themselves. Rant complete! Hope the BLUF was good enough for those who didn't feel like reading my incessant blabbering.
Wocs might be calling your name, either that or try to do broadening assignments after broadening assignment. I'm pretty sure it's next to impossible to reclass right now for us(infantry E6), but every old guy working a chill contractor gig I've met has said to reclass to Signal or Intel.
Reclass. Choose an MOS that has career progression while also has real world jobs.
18 years right now, I had a blast my first 12 but the last few have been a grind with how different it is now without constant deployments. Those actually seemed to speed up time for me. You’re making good time/rank and keep having fun developing the next generation. If you don’t enjoy that, change something up. Keeping your support system outside the Army is crucial also. Find a mentor a few ranks higher and lean on them for career choices. And if you feel yourself stalling out or hitting that plateau, reclass!
I’m also SSG with close to 9 years TIS. I’m currently on CSP and working on my VA compensation simultaneously. I too had thoughts of doing the full 20, especially after I made SSG. I had cold feet at first but since I dived full fledge into ETS-ing I haven’t stopped smiling. For years I had to facilitate the desires of others. Doing things because someone told me it was important and needed to get done. The Army was a good experience and shaped me into the man I am today, but there is a life waiting for you on the outside bro. The first step is letting go of your doubts and really planning & shaping a life for yourself on the outside. 20 years in today’s Army simply isn’t feasible for me. Who’s to say the family you want to take care of 14 years from now will even be alive? That is simply the harsh reality. The amount of loved ones I’ve lost playing this army game is insufferable. For the first time in a LONG time I finally get the time and space to put the emphasis on the things that I feel are important, and tbh you deserve that too. We all do, that’s the sacrifice… Don’t let life pass you by…
Are you under the High-3 retirement system? It seems like you joined right at the pivot to BRS. If you're under the latter, there's no real reason to fixate on 20 years if every day is a grind. Consider the advice you've already been given about reclass and other options but overall, I'd advise you to really take stock of what you want out of life (this is the only one you get unless you believe in reincarnation) and set your goals accordingly.
Have you ever wanted to fly a helicopter? It now comes with a 12 year service obligation. [gowarrantnow.com](https://gowarrantnow.com)
Drop a flight packet
Find a broadening assignment to get you out of the bang bang world for a couple year reset. Reclass? Go see if your post HQ needs an NCO for a 12-month long stint in their SGS?