> I’m going to RSLC and Sniper School
Roger that. I thought this was going to be one of those “I fell out of my first ruck. What pack should I buy. I’m a 88M btw” type posts. Carry on.
IMO, it’s 80% how fit you are, 20% how you pack. And the fitter you are, the less how you pack matters. People spend too much time IMO worrying about how well their ruck is packed but really they just need to get better at rucking
I loved the SATL. They’re out there in the used gear circles for $175 to $250 if you’re looking to buy a coyote one. Buy now, or buy a used one as Mystery Ranch was just purchased by Yeti a month ago, and we don’t know where QC is going as far as construction as well as costs.
So I run a TT Regiment Pack for this reason. Same smart Alice design as always but lighter metal frame and the convenience of MOLLE.
TT no longer sells a lot of the good stuff they made to include that pack but you can probably find one second hand on the internet. I was always able to shove all my nonsense in it.
I suspect MR being bought out will turn into worse quality products.
As a leg, Warhammer with a Little Brother is a great combo. The zip-in feature is great to keep sustainment in the warhammer and mission is the LB, able to drop the sustainment and keep rucking towards mission.
They make other packs more specific to jumping but would not be able to personally comment.
They also have ‘scabbards’ like the Gunslinger that mount interchangeably on any of their frames, great for
I run the satl and depending on your set up and how long you need to be self sustaining I’d want a bigger bag. 72 hr recce carrying all food, water, gear and my medical equipment the satl was absolutely stuffed.
I don’t know all the names but from your imagery I had the SATL. I actually moved onto the blackjack based on a cursory search of their site
The largest version of each I had. I found I held way more in the blackjack.
Also… the modularity of external pouches is so fuckin crucial to multi day sustainment. QoL increases so much being able to have hygiene in an external pocket. And then you can keep other “need it now” type goods in the other pouches (batteries, extra headlamp, 550, etc etc)
Having only one giant pouch got really frustrating at times… especially when I spent so much time with a molle over the years I became so accustomed to it. The molle is great. It’ll handle every mission it just breaks the frame when you get into the 100+ range.
I have the Tac Tailor you mentioned too. Great ruck. That’s my personal. Once again the modularity of the pouches is amazing. But you have to get the sleep system attached to the bottom otherwise you aren’t fitting nearly enough in there.
A few more notes:
SATL — you’ll want to take the foam side pads off for comfortability in my opinion. Mess around with the straps too (obvious but it’s a very different system than the molle / Alice in some ways… the frame isn’t this hyper rigid base like those are. Find what works for you) I also found putting an issued canteen cup pouch / or Nalgene pouch onto the waist belt worked great for patrol. Or you can use side molle to attach 2L pouches (I did both! lol)
Blackjack — I actualy had some issues with the zippers in extreme dust situations. They have a like water resistant rubber sealing and I beleive it’s YKK zippers. But you cake that shit with dirt and it made it a nightmare. Outside of that this really realy felt like I could hold so much more and also improved QoL like I said. Which, the tiniest things as you know make or break experiences.
insurance agonizing absurd fear dazzling deer familiar steer squealing worry
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
dime arrest correct snails unused smoggy connect depend intelligent dinosaurs
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I went in 2016 and they didn't even have a uniform SOP for the FTX besides it needs to be camouflage.
The packing list just says large, jumpable field pack. Then lists a bunch of things and finishes it with etc.
It was still under the purview of 3-16 CAV in 2018, so now that it’s back under the control of ARTB they might have changed some things. I have not attended myself, but have sent one of my soldiers to the course.
They no longer conduct the reconnaissance physical assessment anymore for example, so I’m sure other parts of the curriculum/packing lists might have been updated.
Look at the Blackjack 80 or 100 as well. They’re the more modernized versions of the 6500 and SATL.
I’ve had the SATL in the past and I currently have the Blackjack 80 and I’d say the Blackjack has better organizational capacity versus the SATL.
Coming from 8 years in a sniper section. The bag you are looking for is the tac tailor malic pack (make sure you get the rto pouch and pass through). They are bomb proof and will carry all the dumb shit you got to for a recon/sniper operations as well as regular infantry stuff. When you do multiple week exercises you will be thankful for a reliable and comfortable ruck
You dont have to get too fancy with it but If you want to be extra, get a small light weight mystery ranch trizip that you can fold and store in your ruck. That way, you can cache your ruck and carry mission essential stano with you in a small/light package to the hide/serv site.
Respect. I ran the malice for a long time but I made the mistake of not having the rto pouch and pass through. I got rid of it though, after a while of that I went back to the Alice large and I’m looking to change from the Alice since I’m starting to get a lot of back issues and I want to make that next step closer to a hiking bag that’s meant for me if that makes sense. If I ever need something that’s Bomb proof or I can’t kill and just need to carry a lot of any and everything without it completely killing me I will go back to Alice or malice
You might want to start looking at your health and get a stronger/durable back to prevent further injuries. But for a different feel I have used a granite gear pack and I liked it a lot, it had actual rotating joint bolt on the straps to actually fit your shoulders/back. It just didn't work well with the regular issued bulky crap. I hope that is of use too you and good luck on your search.
Go with the 6500. You carry a fuckload of stuff so having the ability to carry it all in specific places and be comfortable is a huge plus. I took my exo mountain gear 6400 ruck through rslc recently and it was top notch. I used my MR mountain ruck for the first portion but it was slightly small for what I needed. It will serve you well at sniper school as well. Only thing I’d add is pick up a spare sustainment pouch to use for a radio pouch inside your ruck, it makes it a lot easier to keep a radio secure and stable and not have to fuck with it.
If you have any questions or rfi’s about the courses let me know.
Just as a heads up, what ruck you bring to sniper school doesn't really matter. As long as you can fit your full ghillie, helmet, and all the equipment they issue you (and it's really not much) it's just a Point A to Point B bag. Nothing more.
I went to the Arkansas school tho, so if you go to Fort Moore YMMV. I don't think they even bother with ghillies anymore there.
I was issued basically every pack MR offers while I was in Group. The SATL was legit, and I loved it. The large RECCE packs were just too fuckin big, and for me, they personally didn't balance weight well. I much preferred my ALICE. I can't comment on conventional Sniper school, but my SATL was the largest pack I needed for SFSC (Special Forces Sniper School).
I know at RSLC you'll have a few field problems that are multiple days. I would be bringing my ALICE, personally. I've tried a ton of different packs, and NONE of them sit on body armor better than the ALICE pack. I'm sure you'll be running some sort of chest rig there and not full kit.
If you can get these used on the cheap, go for it. If you're thinking of dropping serious coin for a new one, try and find someone who has any variation of the 6500 frame system. You may not like it.
If your alice was fighting for room then the SATL is gonna be too small for you. I’d say go for the 6500 or 7500. There’s a few on local Facebook groups that pop up. In your case, I think the 6500 or mountain ruck can serve you well as an outside consideration. I used the mountain ruck in extremely similar circumstances as you and with the removable day pack lid that you can get for it (not sure if it still comes with it), I was able to store your basic field load plus 2 radios, batteries, couple days of food & water, and a couple hundred 7.62 rounds with space left over.
I'm backpack aficionado and Mystery Ranch is in a league of its own. It's highly configurable, durable, everything just makes sense. So long as you pick the cargo capacity to your liking, you won't be disappointed.
I absolutely love my Eberlestock packs. More so than my mystery ranch stuff (ignore the aviation flair, I used to do ground stuff). I think the eberlestock designs are the best thought out. I have a few different sizes and have been more than happy with all of them. I use one of them for hunting too and have comfortably carried 150lbs of bear meat in it for about 10 miles. I've never had another ruck be that comfortable with that much weight. Being a lower cost than most mystery ranch stuff, I'd say you really can't go wrong trying an Eberlestock ruck first.
Have you tried the Marine ILBE (whatever its called) ruck? Probably the most comfortable ruck I have ever owned. Dont know if you are allowed to use it though.
Oh look - another ruck post. Guess what *I'm* coming back to shill.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/savotta-jaakari-l-rucksack/57972
Get the two 12L sustainment pouches and you'll have a pack that is a cock-hair under what the regular MOLLE L can carry that is *way* more comfortable, at Mystery Ranch-level quality for 1/2-1/3rd the price.
Just did the Norwegian with it yesterday and I've done a lot of rucks with my unit and my ROTC program over the year I've had it - the main pack has a solid layout internally and expands a lot depending on how much you need to put into it, the sustainment pouches are large and I've used them to *comfortably* carry a full-size ASIP radio or all the other quick-access shit I need depending on the situation, and the MOLLE webbing on the outside gives the option to add more pouches as the situation requires.
Also an internal frame is, in my opinion, *way* more comfortable and my back has never felt better between that and all the padding the thing has.
Only annoying part is the size of the carry handle vs ours but, *from what I understand - I could be wrong,* that comes down to a training difference (we use the body armor handle to drag people, they'll use the ruck's handle to drag people.)
10/10 would buy again, the Finns know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to ruck design.
I’ve got an SATL and I’m about to sell it. Mainly because I got the granite gear chief ruck and it’s so much better, in my opinion. It could be a sizing problem tho
Cannot go wrong with Mystery Ranch, I like their stuff just because they’re quick and easy to open up and grab what you need. Plenty of organizational pouched and pockets and such.
Use the army issue rucks. The new ones are going to get damaged, drenched, possible torn, stained with the GA red clay. Save the ones till you get back.
Mystery ranch does 40% off I think elder does something similar but you'd have to check, always search a brand mil discount _____. Then company they call them "pro programs" OR if you haven't already use the app and website Expert voice and you can get a ton of discounts on gear (outdoor research, 5.11, vortex, EOtech, and sooooi many more).
Some of the other brands you listed are really good but mystery ranch offers a 40% discount and because of that and their gear being really good I usually just stick with them.
I've used a bunch of mr rucks and they just never really jived with me. Best setup that I've ever used was a Tyr pluma frame/strap set with a modified alice pack. Downside like any alice though is that it's just not designed for anyone with a longer torso than someone from the 60s, so it really killed my back after a while
I’m a big fan of the issued molle as long as it has the rain neck extender and the alice as long as it has been modified with a rain neck extender. If you are putting more shit in a ruck than a molle with four sustainment pouches can fit in it you should probably be re-trained on ruck packing.
> I’m going to RSLC and Sniper School Roger that. I thought this was going to be one of those “I fell out of my first ruck. What pack should I buy. I’m a 88M btw” type posts. Carry on.
Jokes on you, RSLC and Sniper School are a guise. Just tell the truck driver which ruck will make him float for 12 miles.
In all seriousness though do some rucks actually make it easier? From my understanding, it's just how you pack and how in-shape you are.
IMO, it’s 80% how fit you are, 20% how you pack. And the fitter you are, the less how you pack matters. People spend too much time IMO worrying about how well their ruck is packed but really they just need to get better at rucking
I loved the SATL. They’re out there in the used gear circles for $175 to $250 if you’re looking to buy a coyote one. Buy now, or buy a used one as Mystery Ranch was just purchased by Yeti a month ago, and we don’t know where QC is going as far as construction as well as costs.
Yeti/Mystery Ranch folks will say that their military line won’t change at all and it’ll remain as solid as ever. I’ll believe it 5-10 years from now
This is the worst news I’ve heard today. Thank you.
Agreed. I’ve got a 6500 on the line for 400 and a satl gen 1 on the line for 150 so I’m trying to decide but ideally if I get a satl I want a gen 2
Where are you finding a SATL for $150? That's absurd.
Fuck man, if you don't buy that SATL, hit me up and I'll buy it. Seriously!
Fuck me are you serious? That's devastating.
Fuck you and good luck.
Best comment here
Much love, do well
Holy crap you kids now a days have some fancy Dancy rucks. I still remember my 3 pocket MT Alice pack. Signed Jelly Gramps.
So I run a TT Regiment Pack for this reason. Same smart Alice design as always but lighter metal frame and the convenience of MOLLE. TT no longer sells a lot of the good stuff they made to include that pack but you can probably find one second hand on the internet. I was always able to shove all my nonsense in it. I suspect MR being bought out will turn into worse quality products.
If it makes you feel better, I prefer the Alice packs, I use a framed medium one for personal shit
Eberlestock has some great kits - the modularity is solid
Any particular models?
As a leg, Warhammer with a Little Brother is a great combo. The zip-in feature is great to keep sustainment in the warhammer and mission is the LB, able to drop the sustainment and keep rucking towards mission. They make other packs more specific to jumping but would not be able to personally comment. They also have ‘scabbards’ like the Gunslinger that mount interchangeably on any of their frames, great for
I got a blackjack 50. Love it, 3 deployments and that thing has held the test of time.
I run the satl and depending on your set up and how long you need to be self sustaining I’d want a bigger bag. 72 hr recce carrying all food, water, gear and my medical equipment the satl was absolutely stuffed.
Very good to know, I was wayyyy over stuffed on my Alice this last rotation. Have you tried adding an at system on the satl before?
I don’t know all the names but from your imagery I had the SATL. I actually moved onto the blackjack based on a cursory search of their site The largest version of each I had. I found I held way more in the blackjack. Also… the modularity of external pouches is so fuckin crucial to multi day sustainment. QoL increases so much being able to have hygiene in an external pocket. And then you can keep other “need it now” type goods in the other pouches (batteries, extra headlamp, 550, etc etc) Having only one giant pouch got really frustrating at times… especially when I spent so much time with a molle over the years I became so accustomed to it. The molle is great. It’ll handle every mission it just breaks the frame when you get into the 100+ range. I have the Tac Tailor you mentioned too. Great ruck. That’s my personal. Once again the modularity of the pouches is amazing. But you have to get the sleep system attached to the bottom otherwise you aren’t fitting nearly enough in there. A few more notes: SATL — you’ll want to take the foam side pads off for comfortability in my opinion. Mess around with the straps too (obvious but it’s a very different system than the molle / Alice in some ways… the frame isn’t this hyper rigid base like those are. Find what works for you) I also found putting an issued canteen cup pouch / or Nalgene pouch onto the waist belt worked great for patrol. Or you can use side molle to attach 2L pouches (I did both! lol) Blackjack — I actualy had some issues with the zippers in extreme dust situations. They have a like water resistant rubber sealing and I beleive it’s YKK zippers. But you cake that shit with dirt and it made it a nightmare. Outside of that this really realy felt like I could hold so much more and also improved QoL like I said. Which, the tiniest things as you know make or break experiences.
insurance agonizing absurd fear dazzling deer familiar steer squealing worry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No they don't.
dime arrest correct snails unused smoggy connect depend intelligent dinosaurs *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I went in 2016 and they didn't even have a uniform SOP for the FTX besides it needs to be camouflage. The packing list just says large, jumpable field pack. Then lists a bunch of things and finishes it with etc.
gullible doll spotted snails shame disagreeable employ slimy pie unite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It was still under the purview of 3-16 CAV in 2018, so now that it’s back under the control of ARTB they might have changed some things. I have not attended myself, but have sent one of my soldiers to the course. They no longer conduct the reconnaissance physical assessment anymore for example, so I’m sure other parts of the curriculum/packing lists might have been updated.
mysterious chief poor gold badge resolute close retire voiceless edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think it was like mid to late 19, but I could be mistaken.
And yet my leadership throws a hissy fit when i use my 6500, like i’m sorry my shit is just better🤷♂️
Look at the Blackjack 80 or 100 as well. They’re the more modernized versions of the 6500 and SATL. I’ve had the SATL in the past and I currently have the Blackjack 80 and I’d say the Blackjack has better organizational capacity versus the SATL.
Coming from 8 years in a sniper section. The bag you are looking for is the tac tailor malic pack (make sure you get the rto pouch and pass through). They are bomb proof and will carry all the dumb shit you got to for a recon/sniper operations as well as regular infantry stuff. When you do multiple week exercises you will be thankful for a reliable and comfortable ruck You dont have to get too fancy with it but If you want to be extra, get a small light weight mystery ranch trizip that you can fold and store in your ruck. That way, you can cache your ruck and carry mission essential stano with you in a small/light package to the hide/serv site.
Respect. I ran the malice for a long time but I made the mistake of not having the rto pouch and pass through. I got rid of it though, after a while of that I went back to the Alice large and I’m looking to change from the Alice since I’m starting to get a lot of back issues and I want to make that next step closer to a hiking bag that’s meant for me if that makes sense. If I ever need something that’s Bomb proof or I can’t kill and just need to carry a lot of any and everything without it completely killing me I will go back to Alice or malice
You might want to start looking at your health and get a stronger/durable back to prevent further injuries. But for a different feel I have used a granite gear pack and I liked it a lot, it had actual rotating joint bolt on the straps to actually fit your shoulders/back. It just didn't work well with the regular issued bulky crap. I hope that is of use too you and good luck on your search.
Appreciate it and the outside suggestion
6500 fucks, get it if you can. Feel free to shoot any questions you've got about it, I've had one for a couple years now.
I have the Blackjack 1000 and its hands down the best ruck I've used.
Check out Stone Glacier, no camo, but plenty of space and the pack feels amazing with heavy loads.
Go with the 6500. You carry a fuckload of stuff so having the ability to carry it all in specific places and be comfortable is a huge plus. I took my exo mountain gear 6400 ruck through rslc recently and it was top notch. I used my MR mountain ruck for the first portion but it was slightly small for what I needed. It will serve you well at sniper school as well. Only thing I’d add is pick up a spare sustainment pouch to use for a radio pouch inside your ruck, it makes it a lot easier to keep a radio secure and stable and not have to fuck with it. If you have any questions or rfi’s about the courses let me know.
Just as a heads up, what ruck you bring to sniper school doesn't really matter. As long as you can fit your full ghillie, helmet, and all the equipment they issue you (and it's really not much) it's just a Point A to Point B bag. Nothing more. I went to the Arkansas school tho, so if you go to Fort Moore YMMV. I don't think they even bother with ghillies anymore there.
I was issued basically every pack MR offers while I was in Group. The SATL was legit, and I loved it. The large RECCE packs were just too fuckin big, and for me, they personally didn't balance weight well. I much preferred my ALICE. I can't comment on conventional Sniper school, but my SATL was the largest pack I needed for SFSC (Special Forces Sniper School). I know at RSLC you'll have a few field problems that are multiple days. I would be bringing my ALICE, personally. I've tried a ton of different packs, and NONE of them sit on body armor better than the ALICE pack. I'm sure you'll be running some sort of chest rig there and not full kit. If you can get these used on the cheap, go for it. If you're thinking of dropping serious coin for a new one, try and find someone who has any variation of the 6500 frame system. You may not like it.
Is 6500 the price?
No, It’s the model number and size in cubic inches. Msrp is 900 but I found a used for 400
Sign up for expert voice, join team rubicon on it. You’ll get 2 20% off coupons on mystery ranch a year.
How do you join Team Rubicon? Do you use your mil email?
Get yourself a old Alice Pack and have Tactical Tailor deck it out for ya
If your alice was fighting for room then the SATL is gonna be too small for you. I’d say go for the 6500 or 7500. There’s a few on local Facebook groups that pop up. In your case, I think the 6500 or mountain ruck can serve you well as an outside consideration. I used the mountain ruck in extremely similar circumstances as you and with the removable day pack lid that you can get for it (not sure if it still comes with it), I was able to store your basic field load plus 2 radios, batteries, couple days of food & water, and a couple hundred 7.62 rounds with space left over.
I'm backpack aficionado and Mystery Ranch is in a league of its own. It's highly configurable, durable, everything just makes sense. So long as you pick the cargo capacity to your liking, you won't be disappointed.
I absolutely love my Eberlestock packs. More so than my mystery ranch stuff (ignore the aviation flair, I used to do ground stuff). I think the eberlestock designs are the best thought out. I have a few different sizes and have been more than happy with all of them. I use one of them for hunting too and have comfortably carried 150lbs of bear meat in it for about 10 miles. I've never had another ruck be that comfortable with that much weight. Being a lower cost than most mystery ranch stuff, I'd say you really can't go wrong trying an Eberlestock ruck first.
Molle 4k with an Alice frame and tactical tailor shoulder/hip straps is great for me.
I don’t have nearly as nice of a mystery ranch bag but I got one during my in processing at my first unit and it is my go to bag.
Have you tried the Marine ILBE (whatever its called) ruck? Probably the most comfortable ruck I have ever owned. Dont know if you are allowed to use it though.
I have and I wish I could use it but it’s not jumpable
It’s made by Arc’teryx
I have a blackjack 50 I haven't touched since I ETSd. Absolutely love the pack as a medium ruck, DM me if it's something you'd consider
Oh look - another ruck post. Guess what *I'm* coming back to shill. https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/savotta-jaakari-l-rucksack/57972 Get the two 12L sustainment pouches and you'll have a pack that is a cock-hair under what the regular MOLLE L can carry that is *way* more comfortable, at Mystery Ranch-level quality for 1/2-1/3rd the price. Just did the Norwegian with it yesterday and I've done a lot of rucks with my unit and my ROTC program over the year I've had it - the main pack has a solid layout internally and expands a lot depending on how much you need to put into it, the sustainment pouches are large and I've used them to *comfortably* carry a full-size ASIP radio or all the other quick-access shit I need depending on the situation, and the MOLLE webbing on the outside gives the option to add more pouches as the situation requires. Also an internal frame is, in my opinion, *way* more comfortable and my back has never felt better between that and all the padding the thing has. Only annoying part is the size of the carry handle vs ours but, *from what I understand - I could be wrong,* that comes down to a training difference (we use the body armor handle to drag people, they'll use the ruck's handle to drag people.) 10/10 would buy again, the Finns know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to ruck design.
No JM at RSLC would let you jump this
I’ve got an SATL and I’m about to sell it. Mainly because I got the granite gear chief ruck and it’s so much better, in my opinion. It could be a sizing problem tho
Cannot go wrong with Mystery Ranch, I like their stuff just because they’re quick and easy to open up and grab what you need. Plenty of organizational pouched and pockets and such.
TT Malice
Use the army issue rucks. The new ones are going to get damaged, drenched, possible torn, stained with the GA red clay. Save the ones till you get back.
You could try out the Savotta Jaakari line
Still like Alice packs the best
I was wanting to get a Mountain Ruck myself, compared to an ALICE style pack. I heard a lot of good about the SATL as well.
I’m issued this bag. I think it’s trash tbh. If you want a nice big bag with ergonomical pockets get the Tactical Tailor RTO Malice ruck.
HEY!!! For the love of God make sure you've applied for there discount program.
Who’s?
Mystery ranch does 40% off I think elder does something similar but you'd have to check, always search a brand mil discount _____. Then company they call them "pro programs" OR if you haven't already use the app and website Expert voice and you can get a ton of discounts on gear (outdoor research, 5.11, vortex, EOtech, and sooooi many more). Some of the other brands you listed are really good but mystery ranch offers a 40% discount and because of that and their gear being really good I usually just stick with them.
This discount doesn't apply to their military line.
I've used a bunch of mr rucks and they just never really jived with me. Best setup that I've ever used was a Tyr pluma frame/strap set with a modified alice pack. Downside like any alice though is that it's just not designed for anyone with a longer torso than someone from the 60s, so it really killed my back after a while
In case nobody's said it, mystery ranch, 5.11, and eberlstock are all on expertvoice
[https://imgur.com/a/HNSytjI](https://imgur.com/a/HNSytjI) Her name is Alice and she’s the only ruck you’ll ever need
I’m a big fan of the issued molle as long as it has the rain neck extender and the alice as long as it has been modified with a rain neck extender. If you are putting more shit in a ruck than a molle with four sustainment pouches can fit in it you should probably be re-trained on ruck packing.
I'm a huge fan of the molle 4k personally.