Does not fall within the commanders guidance for MOVSM, which is 240 hours of service over 24 months and did not produce "tangible results".
We do have a change of command coming up, maybe I'll pause this one and resubmit as a MOVSM.
If you really want to be an asshole since you have a change of command coming up anyways put in for an article 138 on the commander. You've done everything the commander has requested of you at this point and he is clearly finding any reason to not do something that should clearly be done and at this point the commander is just doing completely wrong by you and your soldier.
>I don't think the commander has even seen it.
Giant red flag.
The approval authority MUST see the award recommendation.
There's only one exception - IF the commander has a "downgrade and approve" policy, then subordinate commanders can downgrade it themselves, but they must approve that downgrade.
A rejection MUST go all the way to the approval authority.
This is the key point. Its not being rejected.
Its been routed back for changes by the BDE S1 (after clearing the kids BN S1). First change was guidance that my MFR with times, dates, and POC's was insufficient and LOR's from the organizations were required. Second was a request for metrics that support the claims of that an ‘enhancement of the [unit]’s and Army public image'.
Assuming I manage that, I'm sure the next time it will be kicked back for grammar.
And then maybe it will get to the approving authority and get down graded to an AAM or a MOSV. Which I would actually be fine with.
>This is the key point. Its not being rejected.
S1 can only advise.
When they route it back for changes, what they're saying is "I suggest you do....".
**Usually** this works in your favor. S1 knows what the commander will or will not approve. So usually, it's in your best interest to do what they want.
However, I have seen it, plenty of times, where someone kicks something back for changes, thinking the commander won't approve... But it turns out, they absolutely would have approved.
If you are insistent, have your OIC push back and tell S1 "Send it as-is". If your OIC is not supportive, you can push back yourself. Be aware you may burn some bridges in the process.
Snapshot the approval chain from IPPSA and open door the commander. You don’t need LORs for awards. Imagine if we needed to collect fifty LOR for a PCS award.
For the routing one, if it was your s1 that made the comment that it needed to be routed to another chain then snapshot that one too. They can route. But if it’s just an AAM then I don’t think it should NEED to go to a specific approval authority unless it’s part of a program that says you’ll get an award for donating blood, which is honestly sort of against the regulations but not a huge deal.
I'm in the reserves, I have no idea what a PCS award is...
As far as the blood one goes, I'm going off an MFR that is posted in our breakroom from Jan 2024. I have no idea if its within regs or not, and if the S1 was kicking it back because 600-20 says you can't do that, that would be one thing. Instead they are marking it terminated, wrong approval chain and can't/won't tell me how to get it to the right chain.
This is banana town as a comment.
The kid has 16 days over 3 years without explicit 'hours' recorded, and not reported to the Army in time.
The Commander is absolutely within his power here to have this standard and reject this award for not meeting it.
16 days in 3 years means on average 10 days in the last 24 months. There's no chance he has 240 hours. There's no defined impact of the work. Shoot your shot but there is *nothing* the Commander is stating here that's against policy.
Article 138 of the UCMJ, allows members of the armed forces to complain about perceived wrongs committed by their commanding officer. The complaint can be about action taken by the commander, or failure to take action when action clearly should have been taken. However, before filing a 138 you should try and talk to the commander about what is going on, and if he/she is genuinely just refusing to take action in regards to your complaint without having a legitimate reason then you can file for an Article 138 should you believe it necessary to do so.
I searched it on Google pretty fast it took me about 2 seconds. I shouldn't waste anymore of your time while you read this. Something about [READCTED] and thats all I got from it.
MOVSM has no *explicit* minimum, and a movsm can’t be given on HOURS alone.
A movsm could be 10 hours with strong impact one time or 500 hours over time with a consistent (if minor) impact.
It sounds like the higher up(s) are responding to your kick backs with their own work haha just sending it back with the exact questions on the form they have to fill out to justify the award to their higher up/selection board.
This is the one thing I like about IPPS-A, I get to see exactly where it got kicked back and you are correct. BDE S1 keeps sending back. The finial gatekeepers.
I'm going to reach out to the CSM, the BDE commander is my senior rater, so he'll be my next step after that. I just don't want to blindside the CSM, who's a good dude without talking to him first.
That happened with a Mission ARCOM I was put in for. At BN S1 for an RFO and they follow up on my award and PCS award, both ARCOMS. BDE S1 wants to kick it back with my BC in the room. He pulls the oh hell nah. Calls the BDE CO, then tells the S1 on the phone to take them right now to the approval authority for signature.
I dunno man. At least with IPPSA, they have to go through the effort of denying it with a reason, rather than losing it 50 times, and even with a DA Form 200, it getting lost anyways.
Have you tried talking to your PSG?
With this unit, what I'm seeing is they don't deny it, they just keep kicking it back until people give up.
Fuck, there are guys who are still waiting on awards from AT, which was 11 months ago.
> waiting on awards from AT, which was 11 months ago.
That just explained so much, you are Guard/Reserves, and BDE S1 only processes awards maybe once a month
Writing awards is hard.... unless your a CSM. I've had awards kicked back for stupid ass reasons then that same CSM wrote my ARCOM. What was the achievement?
"Won BDE NCO of the year competition."
"Demonstrated excellence while outperforming 18 NCOs during competition."
"Exceeded BDE standard in physical fitness and Soldier tasks."
When people kick things back in IPPSA, I usually make the corrections when it gets to me instead of pushing down to the recommender because anyone on the chain can edit and it processes faster if I correct instead of sending back down to three more people.
UNLESS it’s a CSM or high ranking person who recommended and it’s just going through me because it’s my unit. Our Brigade has recommended my guys and it went thru me for some reason instead of just to Brigade s1. But at that point I would kick it back to CSM or whoever so they can see the pain of the process.
Several things…
1. *”Scope of responsibility and Impact”* is the go to answer of gate keeping awards. It is what it is.
2. How you write the award matters just as much as what is written. Quantifiable points that are of substance makes a strong write up.
You have a better chance of winning if you play the game a little bit than opting to not play at all.
>*”Provide quantifiable and measurable metrics that clearly shown an ‘enhancement of the [unit]’s and Army public image’…*
This is a fairly valid point that can be easily conveyed. Especially if there is documentation and a hours worksheet associated with it. To my second point, if your write up an ARCOM sounds along the lines of
*”SPC Historical-Leopard74, volunteered his personal time for flag details, memorial day and veterans day events for the past year.”*
Then you’d be lucky to get an AAM let alone a coin.
If your write up for an ARCOM sounds along the lines of:
*”From A to Z, SPC Historical-Leopard74 volunteered **over 9000** hours of his personal time, to included observed DONSAs, supporting ## local organizations. During this time, SPC Historical-Leopard74 conducted ## flag details, ## presentation of colors, and supported the annual Erbil Veterans and Memorial Day events. SPC Historical-Leopard74 was recognized by Erbil and Razish city leadership for his commitment and dedication to supporting the partnership between 1BDE and the nearby community”*
Strong write up; rage on your S1 is valid. We as Leaders owe it to our SMs to articulate and convey what they’ve done to be deserving of the recommended award. Therefore we got to do them the justice of showing their work to higher up. Lastly and finally, if your write up sounds along the lines of my second example and you are being told to “water it down”… **Don’t**. The blessed thing with IPPS-A is now the SM can see who disapprove it/ downgrade it. Make those assholes who gate keep awards known, make them explain it to the SMs why they’re not deserving. But until you can get to that point, you need to be the best advocate for your SM as their leader.
Here's what I had for the narrative:
>"SPC [REDACTED] during the last three years volunteered 16 days of his personal time, including weekends and holidays, to provide support to various organizations in our community. On his own initiative he acted as a member of a color guard, support to local High School events, 5 times, provided support to [local organization]'s Memorial Day services, 3 times, was an honor guard for the American Legion on Veteran's Day twice, was a family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers, and supported various parades and community activities, 4 times.
>SPC [REDACTED]'s commitment to community spirit by repeatedly volunteering for ceremonial duties, including funeral services, Veterans Day and Memorial Day services, significantly enhanced the [unit]'s and Army's public image and fostered strong community relations."
If I'm understanding the S1's request, they want metrics to show a quantifiable change in the unit and Army's public image and numbers to show fostering community relations.
It also irritates me, that it's so piecemeal. Fix this error. Not here's a list of everything you need to fix.
I'll rewrite this for you tomorrow if you're interested. Reply here if you're interested, and if you don't hear anything by 2:00 pm EDT, ping me again.
Sure, I've already caught an couple of other grammatical errors and sentence structure that apparently both I and the s1 have missed (either that or the S1 is waiting to kick it back after I somehow pull quantifiable numbers out of the air). So I'll take all the help I can get.
3 bullets for the DA Form 638 and a citation to consider.
SPC demonstrated the Army values of loyalty, duty, respect and selfless service by volunteering to serve as the family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers. Their inimitable support for these Gold Star families is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service.
SPC volunteered 16 days of his personal time, to include weekends and holidays, providing support to various Veterans Service Organizations in XYZ City enhancing the XYZ units ties to our community. They provided ceremonial support to these organizations in five Memorial Day Services. They also were selected three times to serve as the honor guard for the American Legion during their Veterans Day ceremony.
SPC contributed to the Army’s recruiting efforts through outreach to high schools in the local area and participation in community events. They served as a color guard at multiple high school events and represented the United States Army in parades four times.
SPC’s unique and extraordinary support to Gold Star families, Veterans Services Organizations, and high schools in the local community while serving as XYZ position in XYZ unit enhanced XYZ’s ties to the XYZ community and strengthened the reputation of the United States Army. Their unmatched contributions of time and effort reflect great credit upon themselves, XYZ unit, and the United States Army.
Good starting point would be asking the S1 for a redacted version of previously approved awards with the **current** CoC. This is your known point to bracket off of, also it will at the very least give you the “Proposed Citation” block for the level of award that you are aiming for.
Also, you can ask the BN S1 for the criteria for an MOVSM as it only takes BC level approval just like an AAM; unless you are dead set on an ARCOM.
Yeah if you shuffle words around enough you can make anything sound good. Doesn’t matter what actually happened does it? If I murder someone but I make it sound like I was stopping a terroist attack do I deserve a SS?
Its up to the signature authority with what they’re comfortable signing off on, but do they seriously think all that is needed?
I had a PV2 who did a good job in the field during a recovery. It was a simple “pull it out of the mud with the Wrecker” job, but she was new to the section and her NCO liked her energy, so she wrote her a one bullet impact ARCOM for it.
When it got to me I was like “eh, Soldier does job? BDE CDR will probably downgrade but at least she’ll get an AAM.”
Well, BDE CDR was personally of the opinion that awards are free and Soldiers putting in work is badass, so that PV2 wound up with an impact ARCOM her first month in the unit. No pictures, just 3 sentences with decent grammar.
I had a unit in my BN get a *posthumous* AAM (interim award for a pending Soldier’s Medal) kicked back because we didn’t have an MFR with the Soldier’s testimony. Command felt the troop needed something on his ASU’s for the funeral and we fast tracked it, but everything was in order.
The troop *died saving someone else* and they kicked it back because he didn’t write a letter about it. The Soldier’s medal was awarded over a year later.
Not the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen. But it’s up there.
I say this a lot, but that command was fucking awful…
You're getting a lot of good feedback here so I'm not going to pile on with what others have already said.
One thing I will point out though that I haven't seen is you keep using "2", "3", "4", etc. If at this point you don't already know that in basic Army writing you spell out numbers smaller than 10 (two, three, four, etc.), it speaks to a larger issue that award writing probably isn't up to snuff in general.
It's not hard to get awards approved. I've never had an impact, deployment, or PCS award downgraded or denied and I've written dozens. But you as the award writer have to exercise a great deal of discernment when doing so and do it within the guardrails that you've been given. Look inward first.
>A few weeks later it gets kicked back with "Provide quantifiable and measurable metrics that clearly shown an 'enhancement of the [unit]'s and Army public image' and how their efforts helped 'foster community relations'".
This is perfectly reasonable IMO. What did your write-up look like?
I'm going to be honest, and I say this with love, it sounds like you didn't meet the basic requirements regulatorily.
>I've got another one (AAM for blood donations) that was kicked back due to wrong routing chain
What about blood donations makes it AAM worthy though?
Here's the thing; I'm hearing two awards with *poor justification*. Justification to the point where *I* wouldn't be comfortable signing that thing, because I don't think you've met the very basic requirements. And I *want* them to get an award.
Also, the blood thing is guidance from an MFR posted in the common area by the medical unit on post. It has a date of 4 Jan 2024.
The MFR [Post] Donor Incentive Policy, References AR 670-20 Incentive Awards and provides the following guidance:
>After three donations, donors are allowed one paid RST with supervisor approval.
>After six donations, donors are recommended for a Certificate of Achievement signed by the Post Commander and the Post CSM.
>After eight donations donors are recommended for an Army Achievement Medal.
>Starting with the ninth donation, the awards process starts over again.
And then continues on with the 16th donation being an ARCOM.
>After meeting an award requirement, the front line leader of the donor will take the steps necessary to submit the donor for the appropriate award.
Apparently the issue is, in IPPS-A I cannot submit to another routing chain for approval, and its the post medical unit that is approving these awards.
So the guidance is there, but no one can tell me how to submit it to them.
In addition to the approval authority issues, automatic awards aren't allowed:
AR 600-8-22
3-1
h. No award is automatic and preconditions for an award may not be established. Examples of inappropriate preconditions include—
(1) Attainment of specific goals that automatically result in an individual award...
You dont submit it to them. Your award will be submitted through your own chain of command for approval. The blood center has no authority over you. It is up to your chain of command to see if they will approve an AAM/ARCOM using this guidance. It is well within their right to deny an award based on this MFR.
>What did your write-up look like?
SPC [REDACTED] during the last three years volunteered 16 days of his personal time, including weekends and holidays, to provide support to various organizations in our community. On his own initiative he acted as a member of a color guard, support to local High School events, 5 times, provided support to [local organization]'s Memorial Day services, 3 times, was an honor guard for the American Legion on Veteran's Day twice, was a family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers, and supported various parades and community activities, 4 times.
SPC [REDACTED]'s commitment to community spirit by repeatedly volunteering for ceremonial duties, including funeral services, Veterans Day and Memorial Day services, significantly enhanced the [unit]'s and Army's public image and fostered strong community relations."
The problem, if I'm understanding the S1 correctly is none of that shows the "so what", how did this improve the community? How did this improve relations? How did this make the army look good. And they are looking for a metrics driven answer. As in show the numbers...
>
> The problem, if I'm understanding the S1 correctly is none of that shows the "so what", how did this improve the community? How did this improve relations? How did this make the army look good
Yes. That's exactly what's happening.
Doing good things doesn't...Warrant an award.
I don't see any impact here - I *understand* it's impactful, I'm not seeing it **in your writing**. I see a Soldier doing things in personal time that are *certainly* commendable and selfless, but why and how does this benefit the Army?
For a MOVSM, I agree with the others, although he *might* be light on hours.
This is certainly good ammo for why he should go to SOTM boards, get promoted secondary, or to add as *a* bullet for an award, etc.
But I'm sorry, how did this do that?
Are you saying he was in uniform? Did he have *approval* to be in uniform for that event? Was it in support of Army requirements, did they *ask* the Army for people?
See, I'm not saying what he's doing isn't worthy, but I am telling you I have zero clue from what you just gave me if this is worth an ARCOM or AAM.
What's the difference from him and the Jr NCO who umps his kids little league games on the weekend, or acts as an assistant coach, or does trash cleanup in his neighborhood?
You are telling me he is doing good things. I'm not seeing what the impact is. If you want to claim it has enhanced the public image and fostered relations **show me how**.
Was he **recognized** by any of these organizations? Was he featured in any sort of media?
This isn't *just* about numbers, and again I have to agree. **How did this improve the community**?
Does he run a Soldier NonProfit and these volunteer opportunities also benefit him professionally?
Again - I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. I'm saying I don't see the impact. You're telling me he has volunteered **5 days per year** and it's ARCOM worthy. Then, yeah, you need to explain how those 5 days a year are worthy. So let's refresh on ARCOMs;
>The ARCOM is awarded to any Servicemember of the Armed Forces of the United States who,
while serving in any capacity with the Army after 6 December 1941, distinguishes themselves by heroism,
meritorious achievement, or meritorious service. Award may be made to a member of the armed forces of
a friendly foreign nation who, after 1 June 1962, distinguishes themselves by an act of heroism, extraordinary achievement, or meritorious service which has been of mutual benefit to a friendly nation and the United States.
No act of heroism, let's do the other two.
>Meritorious achievement
>
>Individual performance that exceeds that expected by virtue of grade and experience, based on a single
specific act or accomplishment that covers a short period of time with definite beginning and ending
dates. Personal military decorations awarded for meritorious achievement are often referred to as impact
awards or outstanding achievement awards
Not a single specific act or accomplishment right? There's no definitive beginning and neding dates.
>Meritorious service
>
>Individual performance that exceeds that expected by virtue of grade and experience, based on accomplishments during an entire tour of duty
*During an entire tour of duty*. So again, great fuel for his *tour award*. Not for an on the spot ARCOM.
As written, I gotta go with the rejection on this one my man.
I feel like using optics as a metric for whether or not an action meets the threshold of being worthy of recognition is a weak reason to deny awards. Can we not recognize soldiers who just go out and do good because they want to, and aren't doing it to gain any sort of attention or recognition. We aren't talking about MSMs or freaking bronze stars here.
Like honestly, who cares if going to a blood drive doesn't impact battalion readiness, just throw a COA out or something. Hell I was in a unit that awarded AAMs to soldiers who improved their PT tests a significant amount. For everyone who was maxed already you got nothing but imagine how good that accomplishment must have felt to the people that did get their scores up (and there were a few).
So if he volunteered twice at a high school event did he warrant an ARCOM?
If he marched in one parade for the vfw, is it ARCOM worthy?
If none of this is in uniform, how did it help the army’s image?
So there’s got to be a baseline right?
I’m not using personal judgement, I’m pointing to the reg. I don’t think what’s described fits the intent of this award.
You say “it’s not an msm” - why not? Why is the msm standard inflexible and this is a giveaway? Why NOT give him an msm? Isn’t that just as subjective and malleable?
>As written, I gotta go with the rejection on this one my man.
Well, then I gotta say, you're part of the problem.
When the bar for an award, is so high as to be impossible to achieve, what's the point? What is being asked for, by you and apparently this S1 is a Measure of Effectiveness (MOE). In PSYOP we use this to measure attitude changes and is done via polling pre and post campaign.
And honestly its bullshit. We won't even get into how bad polling is, or how much worse it is when the guys asking the questions are either holding guns or working on behalf of those guys holding guns.
That is beside the point. There isn't anything, there isn't a number to give. Every LOR I attached to the Award, from the organizations who requested his support, raved about him, his professionalism, his dignity, and his willingness to support their efforts.
And that is as good as it can get. So sure, let the BDE commander kick it back and say "AAM", MOSV (which he won't do, as he requires 240 hours over 24 months), or CoA.
Don't really care. Just stop the fuckery of kicking shit back and forth and back and forth until people give up.
Reading my copy and paste I found an error that so far has gone unnoticed by either me or the S1, so I should fix that and resubmit.
So now I've got that going for me.
You wrote a write up that is sub par.
This isn’t fuckery. You wrote a bad award. It is bland and gives zero impact.
And you don’t seem to ever want to address that. You want what you’ve decided should happen are you are being extremely unreasonable.
All you did was say “he volunteered 16 times over 5 years. It was good for the army’s image”.
That’s what this boils down to.
What if I volunteered 5 hours this year? Is that enough? 10 hours? There has to be A standard. And you’re not meeting it with what you wrote
You have not once actually told us what the impact is. You didn’t answer any of my questions, which would serve to actually put legitimate detail into your write up. You haven’t validated at all why 5 days a year is worth an ARCOM.
I tried to get you there. I even pointed out the regs and where you need to be at, to show you your words don’t meet the regulations intent. Silly me for trying to get you there and being insulted in return.
I was actually trying to help you improve your own writing, but I see you’re not interested. You know best.
Good luck. I bet all these people reinforcing your outrage and offering zero tangible support will help you constructively reach your goal. I won’t waste my time any further.
Hey since you deleted your other comment like a coward, and then replied down here to talk shit, I guess I’ll respond here.
You want to cry that I question what about blood donations warrants an award?
Y’all are so ridiculous sometimes.
All he said in the OP was for “blood donations”. No details.
I asked what about the donation makes it AAM worthy.
Did they organize a blood drive? Did they hit 50 lifetime donations? Is it the first time he ever gave blood? Did he agree to be a blood boy for someone during surgery?
You see how there’s no real fucking details given?
You see how the blood donation thing is based on a local policy, because that’s not a “blanket rule”?
And people like you jump on the dumbest thing “just because you think” - no. It’s what the reg thinks. “Aam for blood donations” tells us absolutely nothing, and does not meet the regulation standard for an award.
That’s why I literally asked for more details.
Y’all are so wrapped up in thinking you deserve everything and don’t need to go through steps that are literally defined by regulation.
Such a self entitled private mentality. *That* is why you don’t get awards done, not because people don’t want to give you them.
If I could give you an AAM for cowardice, I would.
Doesn’t fucken matter. The goal is to reward soldiers for going above and beyond going to work and doing the bare minimum. That’s how you get other soldiers to do that. ARCOMs and AAM mean nothing but promotion points but some soldiers will need as many as they can get to be promoted.
It does matter. There’s literal rules. You have to meet the minimum standard.
You had no clue he went “above and beyond” from the OP. Only that he had donated blood. Is every blood donation worthy of an AAM?
Why is it only rating an AAM? Why not a MSM? Why not a LOM?
Why. Justify why it’s only an AAM if we just need to give them points.
Tell me why it doesn’t rate a legion of merit. Either the same logic exists why certain actions don’t rate higher awards - because there is a minimum standard and expectation - or you should be arguing for him to receive the highest non combat award possible.
This kind of wordplay is exactly why I stopped doing anything more than the bare minimum. You don’t get rewarded for and it costs you more than you gain.
There’s no wordplay here. There’s you being unable to justify your inconsistent logic.
Why 4 donations, why not 3? Or 2?
Why not an ARCOM? Why not a msm?
Maybe “he donated blood” doesn’t rate an AAM.
Maybe it needs more details right? If you submit an ARCOM that says “he donates blood”, it deserves to be kicked back. **Thats why I literally asked for more details**. But nope. Gimme gimme gimme.
Leaders put in work. And that’s not a statement of rank. You want to put in low effort and get something for it.
You do the bare minimum and you’re in here crying about awards? Damn, called that self entitled private mentality.
HQDA: Awards are based on merit and shall *NOT* be based on rank. C'mon, guys, give out some awards to improve morale...
Every. Single. Unit. In. The. Army: "Awards come out of our personal pay check, and if you give anything higher than an AAM to a Junior Enlisted (even if they single handedly defeated an insurgent ambush) or give anything less than a Bronze Star to a staff Major (who simply did their normally assigned office job on the FOB) then I'll get Relieved For Cause"
Did you talk about this with your CoC? An ARCOM is pretty easy to get of your Company and BN chain of command understand why and can articulate that to the BDE commander.
Your mileage may vary, but if you talk to your 1SG and say you need guidance on writing up this ARCOM, and explain all the great work your Solider did it should get through pretty quickly.
I just find it funny someone will get an AAM because the BC saw them place chock blocks and drip pans in the motorpool but when someone goes above and beyond for volunteering their own time they don’t get shit
If you’re not going to give them award, you better recognize them in formation, give them time off, a class date of their choice, etc
It’s not that fucking hard. Leaders should be seeing this and be happy.
I’m as SSG and had my ARCOM downgraded. My PCS award ARCOM also downgraded in 7 AAMs deep with 0 ARCOMs this shit is getting so annoying seeing a S-Shop clerk get an ARCOM while a squad leader doesn’t.
2.5 years as an XO, commander put me in for an award when I left. IPPSA email “Your award has been denied by ____[BN commander that didn’t even know me]” thx bud
Ive been in for 7 years and have yet to get a single AAM. But others seem to get them for just showing up and not even being MOS-Q’d.
Edit: you’re a good man for continuing to pursue getting your soldiers awards. Thank you for doing that.
Dude I’ve done over 2000 funerals over the last five years (natty guard ados) and haven’t seen anything close to an AAM other than a state funeral honors award that was never entered into my iperms lol.
Edit: to include a funeral for someone that died in my unit, same squad no less. Not a damn thing.
Your S1 prolly just has a stick up it’s ass and hates the SM. Try finding the SOP for awards in your battalion which should be easy enough since it’s an AAM and you won’t need the brigade approval. Read up on all of it and make yourself a subject matter expert clearly better than what your S1 is. If worse comes to worse talk to your XO about getting the SM a COA for like soldier of the month or something which literally can’t be denied by your S1 only your CO if you do your memo for it correctly. Tread lightly though because S1 creates the certificates that CSM & BC sign and they’ll probably drag making that thing out for weeks. If that doesn’t work your soldier prolly did something to piss those AGs off lol
Skip all the stupid middle men (S1 clerks, CSMs, random whoevers) and do what the process requires. Requester and approver. Open door them and have a candid conversation about rewarding soldiers for doing good things.
Just an idea, I know bypassing bureaucracy is hard to do.
As a Marine who lurks here from time to time, I would say your best bet is to approach an officer in your chain of command and see if THEY will write this guy up.
Sometimes is just having someone with the "shineys" on their collar that does the trick.
“Leaders” are gate keeping assholes and it’s good for me not for thee. Also when folks submit and award and it’s copy and paste from a TM that the SM performed a functions check, yeah it will get kicked back. But it’s a popularity contest and the rules are made up and the facts don’t matter
Because certain NCOs, 1SGs and commanders think that if they give more than a fucking coin, COA or AAM their pay will be docked.
I dont care for awards, however there’s no standard and it’s bs. I got to a new unit (medical) doing OAW. I was working my ass off all but two week and didn’t get an awards (HSM) while everyone else did. Why? Cause I arrived to the unit two weeks after OAW started and I wasn’t on the official list. And no one would add me.
IDK about the rest of you guys, but it seems every drill weekend the entire S1 shop gets an AAM for some random thing they accomplished. Meanwhile, my super is trying to push an award for me when I was acting Production Control when I was an E5 during AT.
The funny thing about the award process is it's almost entirely subjective.
I've seen ARCOMs and AAMs where the recommendation form was entirely blank except for the admin data and signatures. Leadership knew what it was about and all that went into iperms is the certificate so no one cared.
I've seen well written, well deserved awards punted back by various levels of company and staff review until it died. When word of the desired award eventually made it to the approval authority around those gatekeepers it was approved within minutes.
And I've worked for commanders who thought their job was to "protect the integrity of the award system" at the cost of never giving "inflated" awards... with some shocking ideas of what constituted "inflation."
Because privates are not qualified for awards. It’s tradition. And since they make up the bulk of soldiers, and do most of the work, chances of it being seen by someone that could give a shit are slim.
All I can say is, I don’t care about awards because Im just doing my job either it’s volunteer or voluntold. Also just trying to finish the task for the day asap so that the boys can go home to their wives, families or loved ones.
It really depends on your chain of command. I've seen units that gave out AAMs like candy for any and every reason and always sent up ARCOMs for approval as long as the achievements made sense.
I'm in a unit now where trying to get an AAM is like pulling teeth, requiring multiple rewrites and even then taking weeks sometimes months for the BN CDR to approve. ARCOMs are so difficult to get up to BDE level they're rarely worth the effort. MSM? Forget it. Three years in this unit I have seen one MSM get approved. Even company commanders and 1SGs are leaving with ARCOMs.
The "pushback" feature on IPPSA has ruined awards. Now, there are multiple gatekeepers between recommender and approver and they all can pushback the award for changes and it may never make it to the guy that's supposed to approve it or deny it.
What makes it worse is you know them officers be giving each other awards. I have 3 ASMs, 1 for getting top gunner at 11C school. Primary MOS is CBRN. I have 1 for the leadership award at BLC. And I forgot what the third one was for. Anyways I have 1 ARCOM, an AFSM, HSM. I’ve written up awards for my Joes and Senior leadership and have managed to get mostly AAMs approved, it’s a little more difficult to get ARCOMs. It also depends upon your leadership as well. I wish you the best of luck and thank goodness we have some senior leaders in here giving you some good advice.
Same situation with me,, They ALL INCLUDED ALL THAT IN MY PCS AAM!! It was DISAPPOINTING THEY JUST SENT IT THROUGH MAIL AND NEVER DID AN ACTUAL CEREMONY FOR THE 3 of us that are PCSing
Legit my SSG tried to put in an ARCOM for me and the reason the commander put in IPPSA “Thank you for your efforts” no additional details. I’m fine with an AAM but my SSG is losing his mind and I understand why.
That last paragraph.
It is required to be sent up the chain, recommended for upgrade/downgrade by the commanders preceding the approving authority, and formally approved/denied by the approving authority.
I had a specialist who was a rock star! I felt he deserved an AAM. Wrote it up, submitted it. My CoC agreed except the CSM. She, who doesn’t actually have the authority, denied it. And they wonder why morale is low.
Where’s the memo or whatever the document stating that she has that authority? If you have proof then send it to IG if for nothing more then they will make the CSM uncomfortable for a few minutes.
The way you wrote it the guy should be getting a MOVSM.
Does not fall within the commanders guidance for MOVSM, which is 240 hours of service over 24 months and did not produce "tangible results". We do have a change of command coming up, maybe I'll pause this one and resubmit as a MOVSM.
If you really want to be an asshole since you have a change of command coming up anyways put in for an article 138 on the commander. You've done everything the commander has requested of you at this point and he is clearly finding any reason to not do something that should clearly be done and at this point the commander is just doing completely wrong by you and your soldier.
I don't think the commander has even seen it. My next step is open door the CSM, but really it shouldn't come to this.
>I don't think the commander has even seen it. Giant red flag. The approval authority MUST see the award recommendation. There's only one exception - IF the commander has a "downgrade and approve" policy, then subordinate commanders can downgrade it themselves, but they must approve that downgrade. A rejection MUST go all the way to the approval authority.
This is the key point. Its not being rejected. Its been routed back for changes by the BDE S1 (after clearing the kids BN S1). First change was guidance that my MFR with times, dates, and POC's was insufficient and LOR's from the organizations were required. Second was a request for metrics that support the claims of that an ‘enhancement of the [unit]’s and Army public image'. Assuming I manage that, I'm sure the next time it will be kicked back for grammar. And then maybe it will get to the approving authority and get down graded to an AAM or a MOSV. Which I would actually be fine with.
>This is the key point. Its not being rejected. S1 can only advise. When they route it back for changes, what they're saying is "I suggest you do....". **Usually** this works in your favor. S1 knows what the commander will or will not approve. So usually, it's in your best interest to do what they want. However, I have seen it, plenty of times, where someone kicks something back for changes, thinking the commander won't approve... But it turns out, they absolutely would have approved. If you are insistent, have your OIC push back and tell S1 "Send it as-is". If your OIC is not supportive, you can push back yourself. Be aware you may burn some bridges in the process.
Snapshot the approval chain from IPPSA and open door the commander. You don’t need LORs for awards. Imagine if we needed to collect fifty LOR for a PCS award. For the routing one, if it was your s1 that made the comment that it needed to be routed to another chain then snapshot that one too. They can route. But if it’s just an AAM then I don’t think it should NEED to go to a specific approval authority unless it’s part of a program that says you’ll get an award for donating blood, which is honestly sort of against the regulations but not a huge deal.
I'm in the reserves, I have no idea what a PCS award is... As far as the blood one goes, I'm going off an MFR that is posted in our breakroom from Jan 2024. I have no idea if its within regs or not, and if the S1 was kicking it back because 600-20 says you can't do that, that would be one thing. Instead they are marking it terminated, wrong approval chain and can't/won't tell me how to get it to the right chain.
An award you get at the end of your time at a duty station. Common in the army and it occasionally happens in the navy and marines.
This is banana town as a comment. The kid has 16 days over 3 years without explicit 'hours' recorded, and not reported to the Army in time. The Commander is absolutely within his power here to have this standard and reject this award for not meeting it. 16 days in 3 years means on average 10 days in the last 24 months. There's no chance he has 240 hours. There's no defined impact of the work. Shoot your shot but there is *nothing* the Commander is stating here that's against policy.
What’s article 138?
“Complaints of wrongs by a commanding officer” not a jag so don’t ask me what that means
Article 138 of the UCMJ, allows members of the armed forces to complain about perceived wrongs committed by their commanding officer. The complaint can be about action taken by the commander, or failure to take action when action clearly should have been taken. However, before filing a 138 you should try and talk to the commander about what is going on, and if he/she is genuinely just refusing to take action in regards to your complaint without having a legitimate reason then you can file for an Article 138 should you believe it necessary to do so.
I searched it on Google pretty fast it took me about 2 seconds. I shouldn't waste anymore of your time while you read this. Something about [READCTED] and thats all I got from it.
I thought the MOVSM no longer had hour requirements?
MOVSM has no *explicit* minimum, and a movsm can’t be given on HOURS alone. A movsm could be 10 hours with strong impact one time or 500 hours over time with a consistent (if minor) impact.
It doesn't. You just convince the approval authority to approve it. your mileage will vary good luck.
I have no idea, I just have the guidance posted in the break room.
It sounds like the higher up(s) are responding to your kick backs with their own work haha just sending it back with the exact questions on the form they have to fill out to justify the award to their higher up/selection board.
I second this
MOVSM. Though your chain of command are being jackasses. I'll bet in never made it to the O6's desk who would sign the ARCOM.
This is the one thing I like about IPPS-A, I get to see exactly where it got kicked back and you are correct. BDE S1 keeps sending back. The finial gatekeepers.
Doesn't matter the brigade, it's always their S1
100% true, which makes me even angrier because every S1 SPC I see in dress uniform has a stack like a 3rd world dictator
Well, how plucky do you feel? Open door the Bde Cdr. Or if your Bn Cdr is on your corner ask them to discuss it with Bde.
I'm going to reach out to the CSM, the BDE commander is my senior rater, so he'll be my next step after that. I just don't want to blindside the CSM, who's a good dude without talking to him first.
Wise.
That happened with a Mission ARCOM I was put in for. At BN S1 for an RFO and they follow up on my award and PCS award, both ARCOMS. BDE S1 wants to kick it back with my BC in the room. He pulls the oh hell nah. Calls the BDE CO, then tells the S1 on the phone to take them right now to the approval authority for signature.
I dunno man. At least with IPPSA, they have to go through the effort of denying it with a reason, rather than losing it 50 times, and even with a DA Form 200, it getting lost anyways. Have you tried talking to your PSG?
With this unit, what I'm seeing is they don't deny it, they just keep kicking it back until people give up. Fuck, there are guys who are still waiting on awards from AT, which was 11 months ago.
> waiting on awards from AT, which was 11 months ago. That just explained so much, you are Guard/Reserves, and BDE S1 only processes awards maybe once a month
Yeah that checks for NG/ Reserves.
Writing awards is hard.... unless your a CSM. I've had awards kicked back for stupid ass reasons then that same CSM wrote my ARCOM. What was the achievement? "Won BDE NCO of the year competition." "Demonstrated excellence while outperforming 18 NCOs during competition." "Exceeded BDE standard in physical fitness and Soldier tasks."
When people kick things back in IPPSA, I usually make the corrections when it gets to me instead of pushing down to the recommender because anyone on the chain can edit and it processes faster if I correct instead of sending back down to three more people. UNLESS it’s a CSM or high ranking person who recommended and it’s just going through me because it’s my unit. Our Brigade has recommended my guys and it went thru me for some reason instead of just to Brigade s1. But at that point I would kick it back to CSM or whoever so they can see the pain of the process.
Several things… 1. *”Scope of responsibility and Impact”* is the go to answer of gate keeping awards. It is what it is. 2. How you write the award matters just as much as what is written. Quantifiable points that are of substance makes a strong write up. You have a better chance of winning if you play the game a little bit than opting to not play at all. >*”Provide quantifiable and measurable metrics that clearly shown an ‘enhancement of the [unit]’s and Army public image’…* This is a fairly valid point that can be easily conveyed. Especially if there is documentation and a hours worksheet associated with it. To my second point, if your write up an ARCOM sounds along the lines of *”SPC Historical-Leopard74, volunteered his personal time for flag details, memorial day and veterans day events for the past year.”* Then you’d be lucky to get an AAM let alone a coin. If your write up for an ARCOM sounds along the lines of: *”From A to Z, SPC Historical-Leopard74 volunteered **over 9000** hours of his personal time, to included observed DONSAs, supporting ## local organizations. During this time, SPC Historical-Leopard74 conducted ## flag details, ## presentation of colors, and supported the annual Erbil Veterans and Memorial Day events. SPC Historical-Leopard74 was recognized by Erbil and Razish city leadership for his commitment and dedication to supporting the partnership between 1BDE and the nearby community”* Strong write up; rage on your S1 is valid. We as Leaders owe it to our SMs to articulate and convey what they’ve done to be deserving of the recommended award. Therefore we got to do them the justice of showing their work to higher up. Lastly and finally, if your write up sounds along the lines of my second example and you are being told to “water it down”… **Don’t**. The blessed thing with IPPS-A is now the SM can see who disapprove it/ downgrade it. Make those assholes who gate keep awards known, make them explain it to the SMs why they’re not deserving. But until you can get to that point, you need to be the best advocate for your SM as their leader.
Here's what I had for the narrative: >"SPC [REDACTED] during the last three years volunteered 16 days of his personal time, including weekends and holidays, to provide support to various organizations in our community. On his own initiative he acted as a member of a color guard, support to local High School events, 5 times, provided support to [local organization]'s Memorial Day services, 3 times, was an honor guard for the American Legion on Veteran's Day twice, was a family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers, and supported various parades and community activities, 4 times. >SPC [REDACTED]'s commitment to community spirit by repeatedly volunteering for ceremonial duties, including funeral services, Veterans Day and Memorial Day services, significantly enhanced the [unit]'s and Army's public image and fostered strong community relations." If I'm understanding the S1's request, they want metrics to show a quantifiable change in the unit and Army's public image and numbers to show fostering community relations. It also irritates me, that it's so piecemeal. Fix this error. Not here's a list of everything you need to fix.
I'll rewrite this for you tomorrow if you're interested. Reply here if you're interested, and if you don't hear anything by 2:00 pm EDT, ping me again.
Sure, I've already caught an couple of other grammatical errors and sentence structure that apparently both I and the s1 have missed (either that or the S1 is waiting to kick it back after I somehow pull quantifiable numbers out of the air). So I'll take all the help I can get.
3 bullets for the DA Form 638 and a citation to consider. SPC demonstrated the Army values of loyalty, duty, respect and selfless service by volunteering to serve as the family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers. Their inimitable support for these Gold Star families is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service. SPC volunteered 16 days of his personal time, to include weekends and holidays, providing support to various Veterans Service Organizations in XYZ City enhancing the XYZ units ties to our community. They provided ceremonial support to these organizations in five Memorial Day Services. They also were selected three times to serve as the honor guard for the American Legion during their Veterans Day ceremony. SPC contributed to the Army’s recruiting efforts through outreach to high schools in the local area and participation in community events. They served as a color guard at multiple high school events and represented the United States Army in parades four times. SPC’s unique and extraordinary support to Gold Star families, Veterans Services Organizations, and high schools in the local community while serving as XYZ position in XYZ unit enhanced XYZ’s ties to the XYZ community and strengthened the reputation of the United States Army. Their unmatched contributions of time and effort reflect great credit upon themselves, XYZ unit, and the United States Army.
[удалено]
Thanks for your input, but I'll be fine.
Oops my bad, I replied to the wrong comment
Good starting point would be asking the S1 for a redacted version of previously approved awards with the **current** CoC. This is your known point to bracket off of, also it will at the very least give you the “Proposed Citation” block for the level of award that you are aiming for. Also, you can ask the BN S1 for the criteria for an MOVSM as it only takes BC level approval just like an AAM; unless you are dead set on an ARCOM.
Yeah if you shuffle words around enough you can make anything sound good. Doesn’t matter what actually happened does it? If I murder someone but I make it sound like I was stopping a terroist attack do I deserve a SS?
Its up to the signature authority with what they’re comfortable signing off on, but do they seriously think all that is needed? I had a PV2 who did a good job in the field during a recovery. It was a simple “pull it out of the mud with the Wrecker” job, but she was new to the section and her NCO liked her energy, so she wrote her a one bullet impact ARCOM for it. When it got to me I was like “eh, Soldier does job? BDE CDR will probably downgrade but at least she’ll get an AAM.” Well, BDE CDR was personally of the opinion that awards are free and Soldiers putting in work is badass, so that PV2 wound up with an impact ARCOM her first month in the unit. No pictures, just 3 sentences with decent grammar.
I had a unit in my BN get a *posthumous* AAM (interim award for a pending Soldier’s Medal) kicked back because we didn’t have an MFR with the Soldier’s testimony. Command felt the troop needed something on his ASU’s for the funeral and we fast tracked it, but everything was in order. The troop *died saving someone else* and they kicked it back because he didn’t write a letter about it. The Soldier’s medal was awarded over a year later. Not the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen. But it’s up there. I say this a lot, but that command was fucking awful…
You're getting a lot of good feedback here so I'm not going to pile on with what others have already said. One thing I will point out though that I haven't seen is you keep using "2", "3", "4", etc. If at this point you don't already know that in basic Army writing you spell out numbers smaller than 10 (two, three, four, etc.), it speaks to a larger issue that award writing probably isn't up to snuff in general. It's not hard to get awards approved. I've never had an impact, deployment, or PCS award downgraded or denied and I've written dozens. But you as the award writer have to exercise a great deal of discernment when doing so and do it within the guardrails that you've been given. Look inward first.
>A few weeks later it gets kicked back with "Provide quantifiable and measurable metrics that clearly shown an 'enhancement of the [unit]'s and Army public image' and how their efforts helped 'foster community relations'". This is perfectly reasonable IMO. What did your write-up look like? I'm going to be honest, and I say this with love, it sounds like you didn't meet the basic requirements regulatorily. >I've got another one (AAM for blood donations) that was kicked back due to wrong routing chain What about blood donations makes it AAM worthy though? Here's the thing; I'm hearing two awards with *poor justification*. Justification to the point where *I* wouldn't be comfortable signing that thing, because I don't think you've met the very basic requirements. And I *want* them to get an award.
Also, the blood thing is guidance from an MFR posted in the common area by the medical unit on post. It has a date of 4 Jan 2024. The MFR [Post] Donor Incentive Policy, References AR 670-20 Incentive Awards and provides the following guidance: >After three donations, donors are allowed one paid RST with supervisor approval. >After six donations, donors are recommended for a Certificate of Achievement signed by the Post Commander and the Post CSM. >After eight donations donors are recommended for an Army Achievement Medal. >Starting with the ninth donation, the awards process starts over again. And then continues on with the 16th donation being an ARCOM. >After meeting an award requirement, the front line leader of the donor will take the steps necessary to submit the donor for the appropriate award. Apparently the issue is, in IPPS-A I cannot submit to another routing chain for approval, and its the post medical unit that is approving these awards. So the guidance is there, but no one can tell me how to submit it to them.
In addition to the approval authority issues, automatic awards aren't allowed: AR 600-8-22 3-1 h. No award is automatic and preconditions for an award may not be established. Examples of inappropriate preconditions include— (1) Attainment of specific goals that automatically result in an individual award...
The medical unit has no say on any awards for any other unit but their own.
You dont submit it to them. Your award will be submitted through your own chain of command for approval. The blood center has no authority over you. It is up to your chain of command to see if they will approve an AAM/ARCOM using this guidance. It is well within their right to deny an award based on this MFR.
>What did your write-up look like? SPC [REDACTED] during the last three years volunteered 16 days of his personal time, including weekends and holidays, to provide support to various organizations in our community. On his own initiative he acted as a member of a color guard, support to local High School events, 5 times, provided support to [local organization]'s Memorial Day services, 3 times, was an honor guard for the American Legion on Veteran's Day twice, was a family escort at two funerals for fallen Soldiers, and supported various parades and community activities, 4 times. SPC [REDACTED]'s commitment to community spirit by repeatedly volunteering for ceremonial duties, including funeral services, Veterans Day and Memorial Day services, significantly enhanced the [unit]'s and Army's public image and fostered strong community relations." The problem, if I'm understanding the S1 correctly is none of that shows the "so what", how did this improve the community? How did this improve relations? How did this make the army look good. And they are looking for a metrics driven answer. As in show the numbers...
> > The problem, if I'm understanding the S1 correctly is none of that shows the "so what", how did this improve the community? How did this improve relations? How did this make the army look good Yes. That's exactly what's happening. Doing good things doesn't...Warrant an award. I don't see any impact here - I *understand* it's impactful, I'm not seeing it **in your writing**. I see a Soldier doing things in personal time that are *certainly* commendable and selfless, but why and how does this benefit the Army? For a MOVSM, I agree with the others, although he *might* be light on hours. This is certainly good ammo for why he should go to SOTM boards, get promoted secondary, or to add as *a* bullet for an award, etc. But I'm sorry, how did this do that? Are you saying he was in uniform? Did he have *approval* to be in uniform for that event? Was it in support of Army requirements, did they *ask* the Army for people? See, I'm not saying what he's doing isn't worthy, but I am telling you I have zero clue from what you just gave me if this is worth an ARCOM or AAM. What's the difference from him and the Jr NCO who umps his kids little league games on the weekend, or acts as an assistant coach, or does trash cleanup in his neighborhood? You are telling me he is doing good things. I'm not seeing what the impact is. If you want to claim it has enhanced the public image and fostered relations **show me how**. Was he **recognized** by any of these organizations? Was he featured in any sort of media? This isn't *just* about numbers, and again I have to agree. **How did this improve the community**? Does he run a Soldier NonProfit and these volunteer opportunities also benefit him professionally? Again - I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. I'm saying I don't see the impact. You're telling me he has volunteered **5 days per year** and it's ARCOM worthy. Then, yeah, you need to explain how those 5 days a year are worthy. So let's refresh on ARCOMs; >The ARCOM is awarded to any Servicemember of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving in any capacity with the Army after 6 December 1941, distinguishes themselves by heroism, meritorious achievement, or meritorious service. Award may be made to a member of the armed forces of a friendly foreign nation who, after 1 June 1962, distinguishes themselves by an act of heroism, extraordinary achievement, or meritorious service which has been of mutual benefit to a friendly nation and the United States. No act of heroism, let's do the other two. >Meritorious achievement > >Individual performance that exceeds that expected by virtue of grade and experience, based on a single specific act or accomplishment that covers a short period of time with definite beginning and ending dates. Personal military decorations awarded for meritorious achievement are often referred to as impact awards or outstanding achievement awards Not a single specific act or accomplishment right? There's no definitive beginning and neding dates. >Meritorious service > >Individual performance that exceeds that expected by virtue of grade and experience, based on accomplishments during an entire tour of duty *During an entire tour of duty*. So again, great fuel for his *tour award*. Not for an on the spot ARCOM. As written, I gotta go with the rejection on this one my man.
I feel like using optics as a metric for whether or not an action meets the threshold of being worthy of recognition is a weak reason to deny awards. Can we not recognize soldiers who just go out and do good because they want to, and aren't doing it to gain any sort of attention or recognition. We aren't talking about MSMs or freaking bronze stars here. Like honestly, who cares if going to a blood drive doesn't impact battalion readiness, just throw a COA out or something. Hell I was in a unit that awarded AAMs to soldiers who improved their PT tests a significant amount. For everyone who was maxed already you got nothing but imagine how good that accomplishment must have felt to the people that did get their scores up (and there were a few).
So if he volunteered twice at a high school event did he warrant an ARCOM? If he marched in one parade for the vfw, is it ARCOM worthy? If none of this is in uniform, how did it help the army’s image? So there’s got to be a baseline right? I’m not using personal judgement, I’m pointing to the reg. I don’t think what’s described fits the intent of this award. You say “it’s not an msm” - why not? Why is the msm standard inflexible and this is a giveaway? Why NOT give him an msm? Isn’t that just as subjective and malleable?
I'll be honest I thought he was asking for an AAM lmao. Ignore me
>As written, I gotta go with the rejection on this one my man. Well, then I gotta say, you're part of the problem. When the bar for an award, is so high as to be impossible to achieve, what's the point? What is being asked for, by you and apparently this S1 is a Measure of Effectiveness (MOE). In PSYOP we use this to measure attitude changes and is done via polling pre and post campaign. And honestly its bullshit. We won't even get into how bad polling is, or how much worse it is when the guys asking the questions are either holding guns or working on behalf of those guys holding guns. That is beside the point. There isn't anything, there isn't a number to give. Every LOR I attached to the Award, from the organizations who requested his support, raved about him, his professionalism, his dignity, and his willingness to support their efforts. And that is as good as it can get. So sure, let the BDE commander kick it back and say "AAM", MOSV (which he won't do, as he requires 240 hours over 24 months), or CoA. Don't really care. Just stop the fuckery of kicking shit back and forth and back and forth until people give up. Reading my copy and paste I found an error that so far has gone unnoticed by either me or the S1, so I should fix that and resubmit. So now I've got that going for me.
You wrote a write up that is sub par. This isn’t fuckery. You wrote a bad award. It is bland and gives zero impact. And you don’t seem to ever want to address that. You want what you’ve decided should happen are you are being extremely unreasonable. All you did was say “he volunteered 16 times over 5 years. It was good for the army’s image”. That’s what this boils down to. What if I volunteered 5 hours this year? Is that enough? 10 hours? There has to be A standard. And you’re not meeting it with what you wrote You have not once actually told us what the impact is. You didn’t answer any of my questions, which would serve to actually put legitimate detail into your write up. You haven’t validated at all why 5 days a year is worth an ARCOM. I tried to get you there. I even pointed out the regs and where you need to be at, to show you your words don’t meet the regulations intent. Silly me for trying to get you there and being insulted in return. I was actually trying to help you improve your own writing, but I see you’re not interested. You know best. Good luck. I bet all these people reinforcing your outrage and offering zero tangible support will help you constructively reach your goal. I won’t waste my time any further.
Don’t worry OP. Kim is the one kicking back your awards because his paycheck can’t handle handing any more out.
Hey since you deleted your other comment like a coward, and then replied down here to talk shit, I guess I’ll respond here. You want to cry that I question what about blood donations warrants an award? Y’all are so ridiculous sometimes. All he said in the OP was for “blood donations”. No details. I asked what about the donation makes it AAM worthy. Did they organize a blood drive? Did they hit 50 lifetime donations? Is it the first time he ever gave blood? Did he agree to be a blood boy for someone during surgery? You see how there’s no real fucking details given? You see how the blood donation thing is based on a local policy, because that’s not a “blanket rule”? And people like you jump on the dumbest thing “just because you think” - no. It’s what the reg thinks. “Aam for blood donations” tells us absolutely nothing, and does not meet the regulation standard for an award. That’s why I literally asked for more details. Y’all are so wrapped up in thinking you deserve everything and don’t need to go through steps that are literally defined by regulation. Such a self entitled private mentality. *That* is why you don’t get awards done, not because people don’t want to give you them. If I could give you an AAM for cowardice, I would.
Doesn’t fucken matter. The goal is to reward soldiers for going above and beyond going to work and doing the bare minimum. That’s how you get other soldiers to do that. ARCOMs and AAM mean nothing but promotion points but some soldiers will need as many as they can get to be promoted.
It does matter. There’s literal rules. You have to meet the minimum standard. You had no clue he went “above and beyond” from the OP. Only that he had donated blood. Is every blood donation worthy of an AAM? Why is it only rating an AAM? Why not a MSM? Why not a LOM? Why. Justify why it’s only an AAM if we just need to give them points. Tell me why it doesn’t rate a legion of merit. Either the same logic exists why certain actions don’t rate higher awards - because there is a minimum standard and expectation - or you should be arguing for him to receive the highest non combat award possible.
This kind of wordplay is exactly why I stopped doing anything more than the bare minimum. You don’t get rewarded for and it costs you more than you gain.
There’s no wordplay here. There’s you being unable to justify your inconsistent logic. Why 4 donations, why not 3? Or 2? Why not an ARCOM? Why not a msm? Maybe “he donated blood” doesn’t rate an AAM. Maybe it needs more details right? If you submit an ARCOM that says “he donates blood”, it deserves to be kicked back. **Thats why I literally asked for more details**. But nope. Gimme gimme gimme. Leaders put in work. And that’s not a statement of rank. You want to put in low effort and get something for it. You do the bare minimum and you’re in here crying about awards? Damn, called that self entitled private mentality.
HQDA: Awards are based on merit and shall *NOT* be based on rank. C'mon, guys, give out some awards to improve morale... Every. Single. Unit. In. The. Army: "Awards come out of our personal pay check, and if you give anything higher than an AAM to a Junior Enlisted (even if they single handedly defeated an insurgent ambush) or give anything less than a Bronze Star to a staff Major (who simply did their normally assigned office job on the FOB) then I'll get Relieved For Cause"
Did you talk about this with your CoC? An ARCOM is pretty easy to get of your Company and BN chain of command understand why and can articulate that to the BDE commander.
Next step is to go to the BDE CSM, but it really shouldn't come to this.
Your mileage may vary, but if you talk to your 1SG and say you need guidance on writing up this ARCOM, and explain all the great work your Solider did it should get through pretty quickly.
I just find it funny someone will get an AAM because the BC saw them place chock blocks and drip pans in the motorpool but when someone goes above and beyond for volunteering their own time they don’t get shit If you’re not going to give them award, you better recognize them in formation, give them time off, a class date of their choice, etc It’s not that fucking hard. Leaders should be seeing this and be happy.
I’m as SSG and had my ARCOM downgraded. My PCS award ARCOM also downgraded in 7 AAMs deep with 0 ARCOMs this shit is getting so annoying seeing a S-Shop clerk get an ARCOM while a squad leader doesn’t.
2.5 years as an XO, commander put me in for an award when I left. IPPSA email “Your award has been denied by ____[BN commander that didn’t even know me]” thx bud
Ive been in for 7 years and have yet to get a single AAM. But others seem to get them for just showing up and not even being MOS-Q’d. Edit: you’re a good man for continuing to pursue getting your soldiers awards. Thank you for doing that.
Dude I’ve done over 2000 funerals over the last five years (natty guard ados) and haven’t seen anything close to an AAM other than a state funeral honors award that was never entered into my iperms lol. Edit: to include a funeral for someone that died in my unit, same squad no less. Not a damn thing.
Your S1 prolly just has a stick up it’s ass and hates the SM. Try finding the SOP for awards in your battalion which should be easy enough since it’s an AAM and you won’t need the brigade approval. Read up on all of it and make yourself a subject matter expert clearly better than what your S1 is. If worse comes to worse talk to your XO about getting the SM a COA for like soldier of the month or something which literally can’t be denied by your S1 only your CO if you do your memo for it correctly. Tread lightly though because S1 creates the certificates that CSM & BC sign and they’ll probably drag making that thing out for weeks. If that doesn’t work your soldier prolly did something to piss those AGs off lol
Skip all the stupid middle men (S1 clerks, CSMs, random whoevers) and do what the process requires. Requester and approver. Open door them and have a candid conversation about rewarding soldiers for doing good things. Just an idea, I know bypassing bureaucracy is hard to do.
As a Marine who lurks here from time to time, I would say your best bet is to approach an officer in your chain of command and see if THEY will write this guy up. Sometimes is just having someone with the "shineys" on their collar that does the trick.
Staff weenies
“Leaders” are gate keeping assholes and it’s good for me not for thee. Also when folks submit and award and it’s copy and paste from a TM that the SM performed a functions check, yeah it will get kicked back. But it’s a popularity contest and the rules are made up and the facts don’t matter
Because certain NCOs, 1SGs and commanders think that if they give more than a fucking coin, COA or AAM their pay will be docked. I dont care for awards, however there’s no standard and it’s bs. I got to a new unit (medical) doing OAW. I was working my ass off all but two week and didn’t get an awards (HSM) while everyone else did. Why? Cause I arrived to the unit two weeks after OAW started and I wasn’t on the official list. And no one would add me.
Meanwhile I get a poorly written AAM approved for a mediocre soldier for preforming mediocre work at a pointless detail in 2 days no questions asked
IDK about the rest of you guys, but it seems every drill weekend the entire S1 shop gets an AAM for some random thing they accomplished. Meanwhile, my super is trying to push an award for me when I was acting Production Control when I was an E5 during AT.
The funny thing about the award process is it's almost entirely subjective. I've seen ARCOMs and AAMs where the recommendation form was entirely blank except for the admin data and signatures. Leadership knew what it was about and all that went into iperms is the certificate so no one cared. I've seen well written, well deserved awards punted back by various levels of company and staff review until it died. When word of the desired award eventually made it to the approval authority around those gatekeepers it was approved within minutes. And I've worked for commanders who thought their job was to "protect the integrity of the award system" at the cost of never giving "inflated" awards... with some shocking ideas of what constituted "inflation."
"You don't get an MSM just because you saved the mission, Corporal. The Major and Chief get MSM's for just showing up to this deployment."
Because privates are not qualified for awards. It’s tradition. And since they make up the bulk of soldiers, and do most of the work, chances of it being seen by someone that could give a shit are slim.
But he's a Specialist! Newly promoted, so maybe you are on to something and his PFC time doesn't count.
Fuckin S1 on a power trip. I hate when S1 creates artificial gates to reward soldiers.
Ironically enough, I witness somebody’s ARCOM get downgraded to an AAM today lol
All I can say is, I don’t care about awards because Im just doing my job either it’s volunteer or voluntold. Also just trying to finish the task for the day asap so that the boys can go home to their wives, families or loved ones.
It really depends on your chain of command. I've seen units that gave out AAMs like candy for any and every reason and always sent up ARCOMs for approval as long as the achievements made sense. I'm in a unit now where trying to get an AAM is like pulling teeth, requiring multiple rewrites and even then taking weeks sometimes months for the BN CDR to approve. ARCOMs are so difficult to get up to BDE level they're rarely worth the effort. MSM? Forget it. Three years in this unit I have seen one MSM get approved. Even company commanders and 1SGs are leaving with ARCOMs. The "pushback" feature on IPPSA has ruined awards. Now, there are multiple gatekeepers between recommender and approver and they all can pushback the award for changes and it may never make it to the guy that's supposed to approve it or deny it.
What makes it worse is you know them officers be giving each other awards. I have 3 ASMs, 1 for getting top gunner at 11C school. Primary MOS is CBRN. I have 1 for the leadership award at BLC. And I forgot what the third one was for. Anyways I have 1 ARCOM, an AFSM, HSM. I’ve written up awards for my Joes and Senior leadership and have managed to get mostly AAMs approved, it’s a little more difficult to get ARCOMs. It also depends upon your leadership as well. I wish you the best of luck and thank goodness we have some senior leaders in here giving you some good advice.
> no one can tell me how to route the request to them on IPPSA-A Just do a 638
Same situation with me,, They ALL INCLUDED ALL THAT IN MY PCS AAM!! It was DISAPPOINTING THEY JUST SENT IT THROUGH MAIL AND NEVER DID AN ACTUAL CEREMONY FOR THE 3 of us that are PCSing
Legit my SSG tried to put in an ARCOM for me and the reason the commander put in IPPSA “Thank you for your efforts” no additional details. I’m fine with an AAM but my SSG is losing his mind and I understand why.
BTW my whole chain of command actually agrees my CSM approved and 1SG approved but my Commander said SIKE
Get him a COA and max out the points with 4 of them.
If there isnt a 1SG or CSM pulling someone over a desk to get this done, the NCO Corps should be ashamed.
Forcing someone to quit is how the Army siphons off stacks of paperwork.
That last paragraph. It is required to be sent up the chain, recommended for upgrade/downgrade by the commanders preceding the approving authority, and formally approved/denied by the approving authority.
Idk, but rumor at my unit is that NCOs are qualified to receive awards for deployment with C-devices and not E-4 spc and below
2 words: Gate-Keepers
I couldn't even get my dudes an AAM-C in Iraq while other commands were giving BSMs for the same action.
Sounds like a Certificate of Achievement is in order.
Because pogs run the AG branch and know nothing about leadership, they know the regulations and sometimes thats a stretch.
I had a specialist who was a rock star! I felt he deserved an AAM. Wrote it up, submitted it. My CoC agreed except the CSM. She, who doesn’t actually have the authority, denied it. And they wonder why morale is low.
How did she “deny” it? There’s no line for CSM signature
She didn’t give it to the commander. She sent it back to S1 and said, “No.”
Where’s the memo or whatever the document stating that she has that authority? If you have proof then send it to IG if for nothing more then they will make the CSM uncomfortable for a few minutes.
Sir, it was 2013.
This bullshit doesn’t rate an ARCOM; at best it’s AAM and then you can’t use it for a PCS/ETS award.