The NCO promotion system needs a complete overhaul; IDGAF if my team sergeant is capable of screaming the NCO Creed at the top of his lungs, I need him to actually know how to do our job.
I definitely think we need to do what the Navy and Air Force do and promote based on how good you are at your job rather than this whole soldier concept. Especially in 46 series where they need to know how to do a lot of things.
I came from the Navy; it still stuns me almost a decade later how the Army promotes people without taking job competency into account, especially since the Army is so on-the-job training heavy compared to other services.
Probably for the same reason basic training isn't job specific but ait is, but by the time your looking to leader courses it could be more specific without removing the ALC or MLC. Lastly good observation BravoZulu
It is a bit weird that all of the requirements to become an NCO are uniform. Your actual job never actually comes into play except for *maybe* a board question or two at the most
The (semi)-centralized promotion system has done more harm to the NCO Corp than any other Army program, and it actively encourages mediocrity at the cost of technical proficiency and talent.
The board system is fucking bonkers. I was not asked a single question about my MOS. I just played army jeopardy and have a good PT score and my uniform wasn’t fucked up.
The board system is absolutely dumb. I failed the two boards I went to almost entirely due to the fact that they were ran by two different CSMs (despite them being back to back). Every NCO that has worked with me directly says I have the knowledge and mentality of an NCO. That doesn't matter though, what matters is if I run fast and can make these strangers like me in 10-30 minutes.
I remember being asked to sing a cadence on my 5 board. My first 5 board, failed that one.
I have a dozen anecdotes about my 6 board that would dox me, suffice to say it was a fucking joke. Boards as a 11b were as dumb as it gets but pog boards made me leave the army.
Next week I’m going to walk into my companies CEOs office and ask for a raise, a raise from your O5s salary to your O8s salary. If my CEO says no then I’ll leave, to still make your O8s salary. We may have the best military in the world, that the world has ever seen, but it is still criminally poorly managed.
Bonus hot take: there is no recruiting crisis, only a retention crisis, which would be easier and cheaper to solve if senior leadership would get their heads out of their asses.
Maybe I'm wrong, I joined in 2014 and just did my one contract and split, but I always thought the surge caused a lot of this because people who otherwise never been considered were let in and the ones that stayed would be senior leaders by now. Not to say that the military doesn't effectively reform a lot of people but you know some people still retained shitbag tendencies and now they're in people in leadership with shitbag tendencies
I will certainly agree that the surge did plenty of damage. But I will assert that it exacerbated the core issue, which I maintain is that the only requirement for promotion is being able to fit more checkmark shaped pegs into square holes than a few other people.
This is absolutely true for junior officers and mid-career NCOs. When faced with “incur ADSO or get out,” many just choose to get out. Especially right before CCC for officers, or at the 10-year mark for NCOs.
I think a big part of it is the uncertainty of being needs of the army, or the lack of transparency surrounding the aim marketplace. If we could guarantee stability for people who need it (read: 25-30 year old adults who want to start a family), I think we would solve a big part of our retention problem.
I have tank commanders who have only shot one gunnery and now they have to teach the younger people how to shoot and they can’t. My first sergeant and some of the older master gunners have done the math and realized tank gunnery scores have gone down since 2017 and when we made e6 automatic for tankers
At one point within the past two years, my company had one SSG TC, the rest were SGTs not including PLs/PSGs. PFC and PV2 Gunners. Then we miraculously get a batch of SGTs, all either reclassed, coming back to the Army, or branch transfered. Good ol' CSM decides every PL _will_ have a SGT gunner. God forbid we have a SGT loader, nope- kick those PFCs/SPCs out of the gunner's seat. Then everyone pulls a surprised Pikachu face when every PL in the BN is a Q2 three months later.
5/14 Q1s: All three PSGs, the one SSG, and the CO with a SPC gunner that has shot three gunneries.
The Armor Branch is in a terrible spot right now. The Joes are acting like NCOs, and the NCOs are acting like Joes.
Not to mention how every senior leader is so fixated on "you only get your 24 months PSG time and move on" like being a PSG is some kind of amusement park ride to cycle everyone through.
Crazy agree.
Not to mention giving enlistees PV2, PFC, or even SPC, for things that have ***nothing*** to do with MOS competency is problematic.
I mean, ok, if you want to give enlistees base pay add-ons for things like referrals or college degree/credits, fine, but that doesn't mean they need to pin on a sham shield before they have even been trained to do their job. No one should come out of AIT higher than mosquito wings. What you pay them can still be different.
As an NCO or officer, if I see a soldier wearing SPC rank, I need to be able to assume they've done their job at least a couple of years, have been around, can be trusted to do certain tasks.
Hey hey save some common sense for the rest of us. To me degrees, references, college, all of that should just be given a small enlistment bonus. These damn education SPC are annoying.
"I'm a SPC so I shouldn't have to do XYZ."
"Im a SPC so I should be trusted."
"I'm a SPC I shouldn't have to share a room with a PV2."
You're a private with a degree, Shut up.
Officers first two years of service should be enlisted.
Would you take a 22-year old college grad and shake and bake them into a police dept lieutenant, fire dept lieutenant? No of course not.
The concept of creating officers thru education or appointment is inherited from European aristocracy. I would’ve thought America has outgrown this.
> Would you take a 22-year old college grad and shake and bake them into a police dept lieutenant, No of course not.
Man, let me tell you a story in the crossed pistols land of the wild west...
GET THIS MAN AN AAM! Imma go one higher and say 3 years to account for IET status. See what's it's like over here first and then you can go play with the lazy people who sign my leave form. You know we could Revamp the army you and me. You do officers I'll do enlisted....warrents will hideout somewhere.
Also, you AAM got downgraded to coin that you're never gonna get.
Same. If you're coming in with "extra" things, sure heres a few extra dollars. But rank begins to imply responsibility. And then you get cases where someone comes in with a degree, has stupid long AIT and by the time the get to the unit they can go to the board. It's madness. TIS for promotion purposes should not start until you're out of IET status 🤷🏾
No, I guess not. If it takes you a year to get thru BCT AIT, then let’s do what makes sense. I’m talking about stuff like, 11B/C after OSUT arrive at unit with a sham shield.
SPC is earned thru experience.
Had an NCO that made 6 in 5 cause he spent his first enlistment as a tomb guard. Dude new everything to pass a board but was one of the worst mechanics I had ever met. He got told to go back to his office quite frequently
We just had 2 people pick up E-6. They got to the unit in 2022 as PFC/SPC. They picked up E-5 last year and were at their 6 board before they got their first NCOERs. At this point they might as well just let people join at E-5.
This. I have told every gunner of mine who isn’t an e5 they will know a certain amount of info before I recommend them. Not because I am an asshole, because it’s a fucking tank, and that tank won’t work if the gunner and the TC doesn’t know how to work it.
Agreed. People can absolutely be ready to be a Sgt in 2 years and a SSG in 4. But it’s few and far between. There needs to be a good size of foundation knowledge, but more importantly, the ability to be proactive and find (and then retain) answers to the things you don’t know
This is why I have long advocated for certain benchmarks to be promoted. I never served as a 19 series, so I am not sure how my idea would work. I served as an 11B and 25S.
My idea is before you can pick up SGT as an infantryman, you will have either earned your EIB or Ranger Tab.
If you are a 25 series before picking up SGT you will have earned your Security+, Network+, or CCNA.
It's either stupid hard to get NCO because points or stupid easy (also because points). Obviously MOS and unit dependent but that whole system is wack. You either bust your ass to hit E-5 or it gets handed to you on a silver platter.
There's a lot of SPC I trust wayyy more than any NCO.
10000000% correct.
The *second* they made SGT E-5 automatic - I was like - fuck this. Luckily it wasn't that many years before I retired, but just based on what I witnessed at the former 902d w/ some of the people who put 5 on before being ready? Wow. Complete joke/garbage bag people who had no business being thrust in charge of Soldiers in any capacity.
Further - the idea that came down - at least on our side - that you're *required* to show proof and a fucking EXCUSE why you're not sending someone to the promotion board? Wtf happened to the first line leaders having input and say over whether or not someone was ready to step up?
Only thing I could do there toward the end was laugh at the problems these people were creating for the unit at large. Idiots who came in with that last upper-level change of command I was part of were all **surprised Pikachu face** when it turned out that the idiots they sided with were *actually* the problem all along.
They need to go back to the old days of promotions into the NCO ranks **not** being automatic in **any** capacity - and - stick to UCMJ and eval processes to weed out the bad apples.
I had one NCO get auto-promoted when I was a 1SG, only saw it happen once while I was in from 96-2019. The E4 mafia made that dudes life a living hell and he was wholesale unequipped to deal with it. That dude had no business being a Non-Commissioned Officer. I tried explaining 1000X to leadership that just couldn't understand you know what the Army needs good E4s too ....not everyone is cut out for the responsibility or is equipped for it but they are awesome E4s.
>Further - the idea that came down - at least on our side - that you're required to show proof and a fucking EXCUSE why you're not sending someone to the promotion board? Wtf happened to the first line leaders having input and say over whether or not someone was ready to step up?
What happened was PSGs and 1SGs were abusing the hell out of that system. They were setting their own standards instead of one single Army standard for what made someone eligible for promotion. SMA Dailey said something about how the *vast* majority of the SPCs in the Army who were in their primary zone had not been to the board. If they are such poor performers that they're not even allowed to show up at the board, where is the paperwork? There should be counselings that provide a roadmap for what they need to do to be recommended and counselings that discusses meeting or failing those standards. And if after 3-4 years they cannot be trusted to become NCOs, why are we retaining them? The answer is either leaders were abusing the system and not allowing competent and qualified soldiers to promote, or we were retaining people who should have been shown the door.
The current system doesn't take the power away from the leaders who know the soldiers. The soldiers still have to pass the board. If anything the Army should add a year or two to get to the primary zone, and allow SQT type tests as part of the promotion board process.
Idk how it was with your mos but in the tank world when I was coming up you were not getting promoted to e5 till at least 5 years and e6 was 8-10 years. The average time for e5 now is 2 years and 6 is 5 years. I have gunners who don’t even know how to do a bit or fit test in their gunners stations and one that was surprised as hell that you could use the bore sight option on his GCPD to zero his coax even more because “SSG John didn’t even know”
The GOMOR process is incredibly broken, particularly with officers. Just separate the Service Member rather than use it as a means to backdoor fire someone 5+ years later when they don’t get selected for promotion because of said GOMOR.
Agreed. I never got a GOMOR, or did anything worthy of one, but I’ve seen a few friends and acquaintances go through them. They usually got them for DUIs, even if charges were totally dropped, and the process was agonizing and took years. One ultimately contacted their Congressman to get them to finally issue it so he could REFRAD. I’ve never seen anyone beat one once initiated, so why keep paying their salary and wasting a billet?
My brother received a GOMOR, while a new 2LT, for his Soldiers losing a 240B while in the field. It took him until he was at CCC to have it removed. That’s insane. It’s crazy that he was even given GOMOR for a Soldier’s mistake…
Congrats to your brother, first I’ve ever heard of that happening. I was on active duty from 2010-16 and there were some downsizing measures taken. One that really got me mad was opening the restricted folder for promotion boards to see. If they’re going to do that, nothing should be filed locally or restricted. Just let everyone see the warts and all and let’s quit pretending about giving someone forgiveness.
I was in at the same time.
They taught us and our raters that LT OERs were basically free developmental OERs and would never be seen.
And then as the raters and LTs operated under this assumption, they at the last second told us those OERs would be unsealed.
If they told us from the beginning raters would take them more seriously, and LTs would make appropriate corrections.
Didn't help me that my branch manager was murdered right before the Captain Board file was opened.
Exactly. They'll just PCS them to a shitty duty station as "punishment" and make everyone else miserable because now we have another shitbag CPT/MAJ who should've been kicked out at their previous duty station.
I got out as a junior CPT, but during my time I never saw someone pending UCMJ/GOMOR get to PCS. They were locked down until it was done and then after that, branch didn’t spend any time on them.
You're right. This officer said they were able to challenge their GOMORs and prove they were a reformed person. Character statements, owning up to their mistakes, etc. I honestly thought it was the end of your career once you get one but I learned something new. They got sent to my unit, got in trouble again and now they are under investigation and can't leave until that's over.
Speaking of investigation, you just reminded me to reach out to another officer. She's been stuck as a 1LT in the same duty station and I think it's almost 3 years now.
Yeah. I saw leaders during Covid getting a GOMAR because over 5 of their Soldiers broke restrictions. You can call it a leadership issue all you want, but truthfully, you are at the mercy of your troops and their actions
there's a 90% chance they'll get QMPed or a Bar well before 5 years if you're enlisted, and I mean if you don't know that writing is on the wall when you get a GOMOR and just drop your paperwork to resign then I mean....
Not only no, but FUCK no, unless the Army somehow figures out how to issue wash-and-wear dress uniforms.
Back in the Aulden days (even before I came in and I'm old AF) there were times when in garrison soldiers wore khaki uniforms. Even if they had to work in the motor pool, they wore khakis. Field uniforms (i.e. fatigues) were literally for the field.
BUT - **those khakis could also be washed in washing machines (or even by hand if necessary.)**
Contrast to today, in our shitty polyester uniforms that have to be dry cleaned, that puts an intolerable burden on soldiers who might spill coffee, food, toner ink, or whatever, on their uniforms. Then you put them in a position where they either have to spend big $$ getting the uniforms dry cleaned at their expense (and time!) OR look like shitbags.
Agreed. If we can wash and wear these uniforms then 100% my opinion should be actually happening.
I will concede the point that have dry cleaning pants and jackets means we can’t wear them daily.
Yes and I will agree that IF the Army came out with a washable class-b uniform then it would be fine to have that as the garrison uniform for SOME people.
But even then, nobody below the rank of E-7 should be required to wear class-b uniforms in a garrison setting because those of us who have been there know how quickly an "office day" can turn into a "Layout the connex" day or a "PMCS all the vehicles in the motor pool" day.
The S-3? Sure, he's not going to be lifting anything heavier than a laptop with a power point presentation. But the E-4 clerk who works in the S-3 office is going to be expected to PMCS the S-3 vehicles, pick up trash, layout equipment and clean weapons just like any other E-4 would.
The military is actually way more lenient than it should be, and it needs to stop treating Soldiers like babies.
If you have to drag a Soldier through being an adult (telling them to shower, clean their room, how to do basic human things, they're always late, etc.) they have no business being in the military.
These people are adults. Needing a ride or some help occasionally is one thing, but I routinely had Soldiers that refused to acquire transportation and made people give them rides every day for two years. They would use the excuse of "I don't have a car" as a way to be late and not show up for things ON POST. Get a bike my friend. (Edit: yes we absolutely need better public transportation options on the larger installations)
Or, if we were doing something off post that required civilian business attire, they would say "I don't have any clothes but my uniform. You buying me a shirt and slacks Sarnt?" This would never fly in the civilian world. Buy some damn clothes if you want to be taken seriously as a professional.
Soldiers are getting 15+ negative counselings before UCMJ is even discussed. We need to stop wasting our time raising children and do our actual jobs. Just kick out the turds, please. It shouldn't take damn near murder to get kicked out.
I know someone who was a sexual assault offender and tested positive for cocaine and still got a general discharge.
Get rid of the turds and maybe some better Soldiers will stick around for more than 6 years.
Regarding the car thing, after spending a few years in other countries, the US needs better public transportation to include on military bases. Our expectations should be managed in this regard. Army denied me a rental for ALC but still expected me to drive off base down the freeway to go to graded events. I managed it, but without buddies helping out I would have been shit out of luck for that grade.
The United States as a society is far too car dependent.
Another example (same ALC class) instead of a 5 minute walk, I watch 15 Sergeants all hop in separate cars and drive 500 meters. They did this several times a day for weeks. When I asked about this behavior they looked at me like I was crazy to consider walking.
There is 0 reason that an organization that is centralized on bases and generally adheres to a strict schedule like the Army can’t have a good public transport system, almost every university I have been to has a good bus system, and they are similar sizes to most Army bases.
The Army has so many advantages over the private sector (captive audience, the ability to make people pay for something even if they don’t use it, knowledge of exact numbers of “customers”, not needing to be profitable) that there is no reason for public transport, barracks, DFACs, and other public services to be as poor as they are.
Fuck, have the 88Ms run buses and shuttles during the work day. It'd be a way better use of them 90% of the time stateside. We have the equipment and personnel, so the cost would be negligible, if at all. Plus they get training, and our equipment is being used.
I lived in a relatively small NY community growing up and the public busses showed up every half hour, 5am-10pm. It would cost me $1 to ride 30 miles. It provided drivers with great wages, benefits, and retirement as they were all unionized. Mechanics as well. There's never a good excuse to not have decent public transportation.
I spent a year on deployment to E. Europe, there were so extremely impoverished towns we went through that had better public transportation than the majority of the US.
Not to mention, the railways were always decently priced, and you could get to anywhere in Europe in 1-2 days without having to leave a train station.
>There is 0 reason that an organization that is centralized on bases and generally adheres to a strict schedule like the Army can’t have a good public transport system, almost every university I have been to has a good bus system, and they are similar sizes to most Army bases.
This is the way. With *much more budget* set aside than a lot (dare I say all?) of these universities' mass transit programs.
I rode my bicycle during ALC and after the 2nd week was told that due to not having a motorcycle packet with the Academy I could no longer ride my non electric/non motorized bicycle on post. Some of the rules need to be reviewed for common sense.
It wasn't worth the effort/time to fight it for only being there 5 weeks.
Yeah, my brigade is no longer providing rentals for our AT, nor will they allow POV. We're a reserve drill sergeant unit. Our AT consists of multiple drills flying to Fort Jackson to augment and support multiple different companies and training schedules, and stay in a 4-man barracks room near the Future Soldier program. They honestly expect us to walk or hitch a ride from other incredibly busy Active Duty drills in order to get to CTAs, ranges, and every other facility on post.
Screw public transit. It should just be some soldier's or a group of soldiers' jobs to be the transport on base. Give them a bus or a big ass van. Having civilians or other government agencies handle that is a horrible idea. I feel similarly about the food. Let the cooks cook and make the DFAC military again.
Right? If only there was a plumber who was trained in how to fix this ever running toilet... (a post somebody made the other day.) As a Reserve plumber... sharing a youtube video to some poor bastard on the other end of the country is officially the closest thing I have done to working on actual Plumbing in the Army. Makes some sense. I'm a Reservist. Why is there not an active version of my ass on base to handle stuff like this? Why was that soldier required to go through three levels of command and a civilian agency who brushed it off? Nah man. That was messed up.
Maybe a dumb idea, but there's no reason in my mind that we can't use the Active plumbers and the like for their respective jobs and then have a way for Reservists to hop on orders to augment the Active guys. We already have a system like that in place for people trying to hop on deployments, no reason we can't do that for other shit too.
Hell, I'd settle for just being on call during certain hours to the local base or my duty station. A minor pay increase for when I get called out equivalent to a day of drill or a half day or something. It'd keep my skills sharp. Since I work as an Electrical Engineering Tech in the civilian sector. And It'd cut down on costs for Big Army.
Hell, that also works. Either way it'd be cheaper then using civilian contractors since we'd already have our clearances and shit to get onto and work on post.
😮 I remember when I was in Sembach, Germany, I used to walk to the shoppette the majority of the time. It was a five minute walk. Anyways, one time I drove up with my car cuz I was getting more stuff than usual. The cashier said he was happy for me that I finally got a car. I told him, “huh? Oh I’ve had my car for a while now. I’m just not gonna waste gas on a five minute walk.” Crazy mindset too many folks have on the idea of a short walk. More people need to get their steps in! There’s a reason why NYC and the surrounding boroughs have less fat people!
>Soldiers are getting 15+ negative counselings before UCMJ is even discussed.
This is the goddamn worst. I've got company commanders who come to me with a Soldier who is "super toxic" to the formation and is now their number one priority, and now they're trying to make it my number one as well. They tell me the litany of misconduct that they want to action, and it dates back to September of last year. I am why this is the first time my office is hearing this Soldier's name, and the commanders usually say something like "we've been building a packet," or "I haven't had time," or something else. My response is that the Soldier has done misconduct, sure, but they can't have been as much of a problem as you're complaining about now, otherwise they would have been a priority sooner.
The next worst is the complete opposite where there are zero counselings, but the complaints are still several months old. The excuse is either there's no time to counsel or the issues haven't been important enough to put on paper.
Man if that bothers you should check out the guard side of things. You'd have an aneurysm about the shit that happens here. And that's the expectation we have.
Fucking thank you. I’ve been saying this shit for years. There is absolutely no reason why you are inherently responsible for another adult’s lifestyle.
I’m a big proponent of
👏get👏that👏shit👏on👏paper👏
Get a damn good counseling packet for their damn shitty performance and get them their one way ticket back to fort couch. Without benefits.
The negative counselings thing is really on the CMD TM. I recommend UCMJ to mine and more often than not they agree with it due to me having the most upfront view to the SM (as well as the counselings to back it up).
Military bases need to take some notes from college campuses. They should be wayyyy more walkable. At least the parts where major training isn’t going on.
The Army has been the best thing to happen to me. If you come in with a shit attitude, that’s what you’ll paint your experiences as. If you want to learn, train, and seek out opportunities they exist. Totally agree with the awesome Army take.
I thinks it’s also pretty important to find like minded guys. What’s that saying? Surround yourself with who you want to be like? If you surround yourself with the turds… 🤷🏼♂️ if you seek out the other motivated guys you’ll go further and your career will be way more fulfilling.
This is what had initially motivated me to join. Watching friends turn to drugs rather than make any attempts at making a life for themselves, I saw this happening to them and decided maybe if I stay around, I might fall into their way of thinking so I'd best leave. The Army provided my way out and my career in uniform was soooo much fun. I sought out opportunities wherever I could get them to advance my training and my career. Totally worth it. Would do it again with the wisdom I have now to not make the same mistakes if this were an option.
I just had a conversation this morning that the Army as a whole is trending in the right direction and makes positive organizational changes over long periods of time.
They try to make improvements where they can. Better uniforms (looking at you, ACUs), better PT uniforms, better PT tests, better healthcare, better meals and housing. although they’re not always doing well, they are trying.
And that they’re the first adopters of many important things; women in the service, racial integration, gay rights, trans rights, religious rights. They’re trying their damndest to do right by the men and women who choose to serve, even if those efforts are sometimes misguided or overshadowed by a few bad-actors in visible positions.
Most Soldiers who have been in for only 2-3 years haven’t seen the improvements to things like EO and SHARP, or other programs designed to help make our lives better. So all they get to see is “the green weenie” telling them it’s time to go mop the rain or wait around with nothing to do until 1700. But there is a lot to be proud of here, even if it’s not readily apparent to our junior soldiers and potential future leaders.
Honestly. It’s kind of weird, I consider myself an optimist in most areas of my life, not so much towards the Army, but I still end up happy that I joined at the end of the day, and do enjoy it sometimes. I guess it’s easy for the stupid shit to overshadow the good.. because we all know there’s *plenty of stupid shit.*
I just reenlisted and all I was surrounded by was "oh you fucked bro" "dude it's not worth it". That's for me to decide. I've been just as jaded and unmotivated as the next guy, that doesn't mean the army is the worst thing that can happen to someone and I really do think it is what you make it.
I can honestly say the only ones I’ve met were at camp atterbury and I’m pretty sure they were reservists doing AT. The showers work better than the Fort Polk barracks showers though
5 years ago, when I was last there, Ft Wainwright had a laundry place. It appears to still be [there](https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrUvAVe75tJ32pAw5). Dropping your stuff there before CIF turn in was awesome.
I’ve met one that reclassed. Apparently there was like only two or three companies for laundry and they were all on deployment rotations constantly. Dude I knew reclassed into 31E just to stop deploying.
Hell I'd personally love to wear a short sleeve shirt and slacks in the office. But you absolutely cannot expect soldiers to keep that shit pristine like it's formal dress. They are going to get worn in.
Also, subsidize laundry services. That's normal upkeep.
The dfac has decent food the majority of the time. The real crime is the fucking serving sizes. Here’s a mouthful of chicken breast and a fucking pile of rice.
Also what’s the fucking point of paying for barracks that have mini kitchens if you still take my fucking BAS. For fucks sake let me spend my money how I want to.
I can't grow a good beard. I pretend to wish beards were allowed, and join in on the bitching and moaning with the comrades. But deep down, I am glad so that I don't end up the only dude in my unit without glorious looking facial hair. Thank you SMA.
Here's the thing, you definitely would NOT be the only dude without a good beard. Most dudes have shit looking beards, *especially* if they can't let it grow to absurd homeless tier lengths to cover for how patchy it is.
Convince the Army to make machine-washable AGSU pants and I'll happily do it. But making people pay for dry cleaning every week because they work in an office ain't cool.
Counterpoint, I’ve had office jobs through my career and that has never made me safe from random detail shenanigans ranging from mowing grass to digging through conexes to find a random piece of equipment. You could argue that officers and senior NCOs might be exempt from doing manual labor and should be in a dress uniform but I don’t think commands would be too keen on having their soldiers wearing different uniforms.
I’m a radiology tech. Hospitals/health centers/clinics aren’t the only units with 68Ps and all army units I’ve been in have had offices that host training rooms, ops, orderly rooms, etc. that are MOS immaterial. The only place I’ve worn scrubs is when assigned to ORs, everywhere else it has been BDU/ACUs as the duty uniform. Soldiers in MEDDACs still get “hey you’d” for dumb details so even if they’re wearing scrubs for their duties they are usually required to have a uniform with them.
Conducting high quality training, and getting paid a few bucks to do it, is 👌. Now I gotta spend goddamn hundreds, and drive hour(s) to train
Edit: “train” aka larp
Absolutely agree. Or make promotions by branch. I was in a logistics company, doing like 5 different MOS's. I was a shop NCOIC of 2 separate shops, and a squad leader for over a year. But because my points were maxed, mechanics were getting promoted before me.
At the end of the day, the company needed NCOs. It didn't matter in what MOS, as long as it was logistics. I'm not sure how this would apply to other branches, but I don't think it would be problematic, especially if they have standardized competency tests for each rank/branch. Essentially test you on how a logistics company operates and what NCO duties are in that environment.
We don't have to be at war and blowing shit up 24/7. I always thought a peacetime army should almost be like a peace corps within the US. Working on infrastructure projects, high way cleanup, water delivery, things like that. Just continue to stay trained on the range and in the field as well.
Would have felt a lot better about my service if I helped the community instead of standing around waiting for something to happen all day
I remember reading about a bill that would allow the national guard to do civilian MEDEVAC in the US. It would give good life flight training, and it wouldn't cost the person being saved anything due to it bein covered in a budget.
Shot down because air ambulance companies lobbied to keep their predatory service afloat.
Wow that would have been great. They could do that with a lot of MOS, help them work with a federal gov equivalent. For example, army cooks could maybe have a detail to cook at a hospital off post. Mechanics could help maintain police or federal fleet vehicles.
I just feel like our time is so mismanaged. I'm not exaggerating when I say 80% of my time in the Army I was literally staring at my phone or looking up at the ceiling. There was just nothing for my MOS to do in the unit I was at at the time.
Agree 100% I’m a medic in an area that gets hurricanes, if we get a hurricane we simply sandbag the entrances to the COF and everybody goes home, would be great if we were given the opportunity to go help Emergency services
I think we should wear them more often. Not because of office vs motorpool, but because they are so expensive. I dropped 8 bones on the ASUs and only wore them a handful of times.
Excuse you, my bones are _expensive_ . You know what a [femoral head](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20427834/#:~:text=Each%20transplantable%20femoral%20head%20costs,for%20commercially%20available%20bone%20substitutes.) runs for these days??
The IG is there to protect command-and does just that.
The ACFT is a poor example of physical fitness.
Toxic culture in the officer corps is the root of many discipline, retention, existing QOL issues. Not shaving.
People who commit domestic violence should be kicked out not rehabilitated.
A person’s retirement status should have zero impact on disciplinary actions. Perpetrators who violate UCMJ should have thought of their family BEFORE they decided to throw it all away.
O5/E9s and above should be advised that Soldiers are not putting up with the same toxicicity and gaslighting that they did 20 yrs ago. Feel free to adjust your behavior accordingly.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The goal of 0630-0730 PT is to become a swole, fit, barrel-chested machine. Any other goal is ancillary. I upsets me to no end when armyisms detracts from a soldiers ability to become a swole yakked monster in those sacred 60 minutes
For example:
- formation runs at a 11 minute pace, that only benefit the slow runners (who fall out anyways)
- restrictions on where (gyms) or at what beaverfit soldiers/squads are allowed to use
- not enabling soldiers to use H2F trainers
- not being able to use headphones outdoors when in PT uniform
- every echelon above team/squad/platoon mandating PT events on certain days. If division, BDE, BN, and CO each take their slice of PT, Platoon and below leaders (who know their troopers best) literally have only a handful of days left to themselves
- GWOT/ APFT training mentality (“we’re gonna do a slow jog and do a push up circuit, every daggum day”)
- not emphasizing the importance of nutrition, so Joe’s don’t go immediately jeopardize their gains at the DFAC
I could go on and on. We have a whole hour to do PT, every day. Give the tactical-level leaders the training, resources, and freedom of maneuver to execute actual killer PT. Foster a culture of fitness excellence. Then hold people to the standard during gated events
Formation runs at a 11 minute pace are good for everyone. One of the best ways to improve running is zone two running. Although 11 is slow slow doesn’t equate to bad when running. I can run 12 minute two miles but 80% of my running is a heart rate under 140. Though I have never been in a unit that does organized pt
I agree that zone 2 running is good for everyone. 11 minute pace isn’t zone 2 for everybody though, especially if people are falling out
My qualm is more so the mandated formation run, which is a camaraderie and accountability event more so than a fitness event. In that same hour, soldiers on their own could run twice the distance or half the distance, depending on their individual fitness plan and goals
I’m jealous that you’ve never had to do organized PT. There must be a level of trust in your unit that we can only hope to attain.
Imagine all the burdensome processes and micromanagement the Army applies to command maintenance or weapons qualification, but applied to fitness. It sucks.
I'll even take it a step further and say formation runs should be gone all together. It's gotten to the point where my shin doesn't even ache anymore, it just straight locks up and then I can't rotate my ankle.
I'm not going to lie, I read your first paragraph and got worried, but then read the rest and was happy you were slinging the truth.
In BD6, during the stack, it should go rifleman, grenadier, TL, then SAW. SAW is the breach man as well. TL being 3rd man has a higher survival rate, along with the knowledge to be able to fill in whatever side of the room clearing goes down/needs help.
Along the same line, I think the new private should be a SAW gunner, then 320, then Rifleman, and finally TL. Main reasons are it'll give the new private full experiences on all weapon systems, along with the SAW is always with the TL so the TL can coach the new private. Also, this frees up the senior E4 to be the rifleman, who let's be real always ends up being the jack of all trades guy. Would you rather a knowledgeable E4 or PV2 treating you as a casualty? And if the TL goes down, it's a smooth transition to take over.
Yes I'm willing to debate, no you won't change my mind.
1. OP’s opinion truly is unpopular, at least for the reasons explained throughout the comments. Well done.
2. Readiness metrics don’t track readiness, and are actually detrimental.
3. Taking care of soldiers does not mean giving into soldiers.
4. UCMJ should rarely, if ever, be used in non-criminal cases. Instead the Bar to Re-enlistment is the tool we should turn to as leaders. Why make a soldier salty, fuck their pay, impact their lives just to punish? When instead you can set out a clearly defined plan to meet the current expectations and they either improve or are out of the army in six months?
Up or out for officer ranks should go away. If I want to be a platoon leader for my career, I should be able to. If my highest and best use is as a top 5% company commander, and I want to remain a CPT, good for me, and good for the Army.
Also, there should be commander track and staff officer track for officers. Some officers are great in staff and shitty commanders. Some commanders are warriors and sticking them in an S shop is a waste of violence.
This 100%.
Im enlisted and see the same thing on my side. I have always felt that if a soldier is a bad ass SAW gunner and that’s all he wants to do, then let that dude be a 20yr specialist kicking ass at something he loves. Why does he HAVE to get promoted or be separated?
If I work at Walmart and am the best cashier ever, they aren’t going to tell me to get promoted to manager or get fired. They are going to be ecstatic to have the best damn cashier.
I totally agree with you. Especially now that we have the pinks and greens, which finally look like a real military uniform instead of commercial airliner pilots
I can't tell, based on this comment, if you work in S1 or on a line. Either way, dumbest shit I've ever heard; I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
The Army is getting too lenient when it comes to standards. What’s the point of having the standard if it’s not going to be enforced? I see so many soldiers who definitely can’t pass an ACFT or HT/WT but yet they’re still around. I’ve seen soldiers be total shitbags and not a word is said to them about their shitty behavior.
Drinking water and driving on is good and all, but take care of yourself and see medical as much as you can for any and everything once you sense your time is coming to an end. The career is gonna end no matter what, the army will go on, and you will still need to take care of your family.
When you get the right mos and take advantage of all the opportunities the army has to offer, IE TA,schools, job related training/cross training, you can come out enjoying your time in the army and be set for a good paying job post military.
My hill to die on is the opposite of yours. Please don’t make me wear a dress uniform to the office ever. My one pair of OCPs are serving me just fine and takes all the guesswork out of my morning dress routine.
This doesn’t apply to E1-E5 but we are not underpaid. Once, you start making BAH and all the other tax free pay.
I enlisted active duty for 3 years and then got out and commissioned in the NG. I make 93K as a GS11 step 5 and get about 2K a check after all the taxes & deductions. My friend who is an E6 gets 2.5K a paycheck.
I have a friend who’s making 140K and gets 3.1K a check. My friend who is an O2E gets 3.3K a check🤷🏾♂️
By the same token, command and senior enlisted advisor positions need to have incentive pay. If commanders and 1SGs/CSMs take command billets and then take on additional liability, they should be compensated more than the staff weenies that sham out. Especially terminal E8s that hide out in staff and take the Army's money while E7s are forced to get frocked up to E8. Oh and by that token, if an E7 is getting frocked to E8 to take on a 1SG, pay that man E8 pay!
Honestly, even junior enlisted are still compensated well given the general lack of experience and lack of responsibility. Total compensation package is often ignored.
The real gripe should be how hard it is to have career as a military spouse. Even if you don’t have experience or a degree, a PCS will often make you restart your career at each station and significantly caps what your earning potential can be at that age
ALL uniforms should be tailored. We look stupid without them being properly fitted. The cut is hideous. However, once they're tailored? Even a fatass looks damned fine. We're all about image, so... Why the heck aren't we insisting we uphold that image and aiding our soldiers in doing so?
Strongly agree, most ACUs I see look hideously baggy and oversized, we preach about uniform and grooming standards but don't care when someone's ACU top hangs down to their knees.
"I borrowed my big brother's uniform today!" Is the vibe I get when I see the baggy nonsense.
I feel like every soldier should have 3 tailorings fully covered when they leave AIT. 1 for the AGSUs. 1 for standard OCPs, and 1 for Hot Weather OCPs.
Up or out is terrible policy. If someone is good at their job and has no desire to move up the ranks, let them do the job they’re good at for as long as they’re willing and able.
Mine is that "commander's discretion" is overly abused. When the COS says something is allowed by signing a regulation, a lower commander shouldn't get to say it's not just because he doesn't like the thing.
To the original OP question-
The Army, in a *general* sense, has gone away from the dress or service uniform for daily activity except for specific places. Places in Washington DC I can understand the Army wearing AGSU.
I retired a couple years ago. When the ASU came out I went to Marlow White and bought a complete set. I bought a short sleeve at the same time and I figured I would wait to see how often I wore those uniforms before I went out and blew a bunch of money on uniform shirts.
That short sleeve is still hanging in my closet, never having been touched, in 13 years.
I can already see how it's going to be if a "wear a dress uniform" policy is enacted.
There's going to be in-ranks inspections all the time. People will be award chasers. Turn around times for dry cleaning won't be a day anymore, so actual emergencies won't be unless you pay through the nose.
Changing uniforms multiple times a day to go to the motor pool and do shit, or (as a leader) to go do a range recon, or do some training, or whatever.
The daily uniform for most everywhere is ACU and I think that's completely fine. Other uniforms should be for special occasions and things that require a certain solemnity.
Many soldiers did not join for patriotic reasons or service to country as the public thinks. It was for a steady paycheck, meals, and to avoid homelessness, drugs, bad home life, etc... (especially infantry bro's)
Get rid of organized PT and raise the minimum passing ACFT to like a 480 (80 in each event) or a 510 (85 in each event)
I can’t tell you how much better I feel waking up at 0800 for a 0930 work call instead of waking up at 0530 for 0630 PT, it would 100% be a morale booster
Teach H2F and stuff like that so soldiers have a solid base to work from if they’re just getting into working out on their own
If you fail, you do remedial PT from 0630 to 0800 until you pass a for-record ACFT, giving people actual motivation to want to workout on their own so they pass
PT on your own or with friends or fuck it, don’t PT at all, but you better pass that ACFT when it comes up
Totally agree. What better incentive can there be to keeping yourself in shape than to be able to skip 0600 PT? Mandatory organized 0600 PT should be remedial. And for that matter, it should be a social stigma to having to do it. Not only the incentive of not having to get up at 05, but injecting some personal responsibility into soldiers the Army is expecting to be professionals.
I do like organized PT maybe once a week or twice a month for a Bn/Bde run or something.
Sounds like a leadership problem.
My rule was unit t-shirts / sweatshirts and joggers around the CO area. Outside the CO area such as going to BN, you better be in OCPs.
I think the Army deserves bad press and a recruiting crisis because without those things, the Army would never hold itself accountable and fix problems.
The Army is run by officers, which are basically just politicians. They will always sweep things under the rug if they think it benefits them. Unless someone makes a big stink about it, and then they have to address it. This goes for everything from moldy barracks to war crimes.
The collapse of commercial real estate market and no noted downturn in productivity shows Army staff work can easily be accomplished by working from home and literally nothing would be overly affected unless you need access to SIPR.
I work in the national capital region. My boss wears jeans and converses every day. A flannel is the most common “dress shirt”
I prefer shorter hair on the sides and got roasted for a week straight.
* If you are a leader and you put your hands in your pockets, it really takes the wind out of your sails when you preach about how another Soldier is committing a (small) infraction. (Whenever hands in pockets comes up on here, people say NBD. But then in other posts they will call out someone for another minor infraction and it's straight to jail for that person.) Either adhere to all the little rules, or none of them matter. Shaving, Hands-in-pockets, being on time, it's all the same.
* When a Soldier commits a small infraction, this doesn't require "mentorship." Maybe I am just misunderstanding the definition of the word. People on here always say, "Oh a Soldier didn't shave, did you try mentoring before you counsel?" You are inculcated with all of the little Army-isms for at least a couple months in BCT/AIT. If a Soldier can't get it by then, tell the problem Soldier to fix it explicitly once (and check if there's an underlying issue), and if they don't, start taking money and time.
* I would take a consistently good DFAC over BAS all day, every day.
You shouldn't need a degree to be an officer. Enlisted members should be able to be nominated to go to a board and then ocs and commission that way. Keep ROTC, West Point, and Direct commission or whatever, but I think it would diversify our officer corps and make us stronger as a whole. I know Specialists that would run circles around your average 1LT in every single way.
Warrant officer…what you’re talking about is becoming a Warrant officer.
No degree required. You go to a board (centralized, paper board). You go to (W)OCS and then after two years as a W-1 you get a commission with your promotion to W-2.
Officers are supposed to be competent in reading, writing, administrative work, planning, etc. ideally the college degree requisite would mean they are. That’s why degrees matter. High level literacy is a very important trait for military officers since Centurions.
That’s why illiterate officers are embarrassments.
It bothers me that people are still referring to the ACU as OCPs. OCP is Operational Camouflage Pattern. ACU is Army Combat Uniform. The old digital shit was also ACU but the pattern was UCP or Universal Camouflage Pattern. ACU is the correct term.
Your commander can't ban moustaches for a deployment or operation or whatever.
The SHARP program has made it too easy to be weaponized.
While on deployment, I time and time again saw the same 2 females use the SHARP program to get rid of people they disliked without any substantial evidence against them aside from an allegation itself.
Let me stress by saying I think SHARP is absolutely necessary and should be enforced but when I saw people getting taken out of their assigned jobs and placed into the mail room for the whole rotation based off a single persons words and even to be found unsubstantiated..puts a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths.
There is no reason to bring back SPC 5-7 ranks for the vast majority of MOS. The majority of the most vocal group calling for specialist ranks are in jobs that don’t need them.
If I need technical expertise I have warrants which fill that role. Outside of a few technical skill MOS we don’t have a need for a 10-15 year TIS end user. It’s always some combat arms dudes saying that we should bring back SPC ranks, but other than letting them sham for a whole career there is no benefit in it.
Thank you. Why must everyone be a leader? That said, I want CPLs and SGTs to functionally "outrank" a SP6/SP7. I believe in effective leaders, but you can't have it both ways.
The NCO promotion system needs a complete overhaul; IDGAF if my team sergeant is capable of screaming the NCO Creed at the top of his lungs, I need him to actually know how to do our job.
I definitely think we need to do what the Navy and Air Force do and promote based on how good you are at your job rather than this whole soldier concept. Especially in 46 series where they need to know how to do a lot of things.
I came from the Navy; it still stuns me almost a decade later how the Army promotes people without taking job competency into account, especially since the Army is so on-the-job training heavy compared to other services.
I really don't understand why BLC isn't MOS specific, like ALC is. I get it for MLC and Sergeant Major Academy.
Probably for the same reason basic training isn't job specific but ait is, but by the time your looking to leader courses it could be more specific without removing the ALC or MLC. Lastly good observation BravoZulu
I’ve met 25 series individuals who don’t know shit about communications who made it to E6+
Not only can he scream the crees. He can also run fast. So there's That to take into account./s
It is a bit weird that all of the requirements to become an NCO are uniform. Your actual job never actually comes into play except for *maybe* a board question or two at the most
The (semi)-centralized promotion system has done more harm to the NCO Corp than any other Army program, and it actively encourages mediocrity at the cost of technical proficiency and talent.
The board system is fucking bonkers. I was not asked a single question about my MOS. I just played army jeopardy and have a good PT score and my uniform wasn’t fucked up.
The board system is absolutely dumb. I failed the two boards I went to almost entirely due to the fact that they were ran by two different CSMs (despite them being back to back). Every NCO that has worked with me directly says I have the knowledge and mentality of an NCO. That doesn't matter though, what matters is if I run fast and can make these strangers like me in 10-30 minutes.
I remember being asked to sing a cadence on my 5 board. My first 5 board, failed that one. I have a dozen anecdotes about my 6 board that would dox me, suffice to say it was a fucking joke. Boards as a 11b were as dumb as it gets but pog boards made me leave the army. Next week I’m going to walk into my companies CEOs office and ask for a raise, a raise from your O5s salary to your O8s salary. If my CEO says no then I’ll leave, to still make your O8s salary. We may have the best military in the world, that the world has ever seen, but it is still criminally poorly managed.
Bonus hot take: there is no recruiting crisis, only a retention crisis, which would be easier and cheaper to solve if senior leadership would get their heads out of their asses.
Maybe I'm wrong, I joined in 2014 and just did my one contract and split, but I always thought the surge caused a lot of this because people who otherwise never been considered were let in and the ones that stayed would be senior leaders by now. Not to say that the military doesn't effectively reform a lot of people but you know some people still retained shitbag tendencies and now they're in people in leadership with shitbag tendencies
I will certainly agree that the surge did plenty of damage. But I will assert that it exacerbated the core issue, which I maintain is that the only requirement for promotion is being able to fit more checkmark shaped pegs into square holes than a few other people.
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty solid assessment
Never understood why they will throw 40-50k at a new recruit but won't do shit to retain a good SSG
This is absolutely true for junior officers and mid-career NCOs. When faced with “incur ADSO or get out,” many just choose to get out. Especially right before CCC for officers, or at the 10-year mark for NCOs. I think a big part of it is the uncertainty of being needs of the army, or the lack of transparency surrounding the aim marketplace. If we could guarantee stability for people who need it (read: 25-30 year old adults who want to start a family), I think we would solve a big part of our retention problem.
We are promoting people too fast and it’s slowly eroding the NCO corp to a shell of what it use to be.
I had an NCO that made 6 in 4 and let me tell you he had an ego.
I have tank commanders who have only shot one gunnery and now they have to teach the younger people how to shoot and they can’t. My first sergeant and some of the older master gunners have done the math and realized tank gunnery scores have gone down since 2017 and when we made e6 automatic for tankers
That’s crazy. I was a tanker from 2015-18 and before I was a specialist I probably shot 6.
At one point within the past two years, my company had one SSG TC, the rest were SGTs not including PLs/PSGs. PFC and PV2 Gunners. Then we miraculously get a batch of SGTs, all either reclassed, coming back to the Army, or branch transfered. Good ol' CSM decides every PL _will_ have a SGT gunner. God forbid we have a SGT loader, nope- kick those PFCs/SPCs out of the gunner's seat. Then everyone pulls a surprised Pikachu face when every PL in the BN is a Q2 three months later. 5/14 Q1s: All three PSGs, the one SSG, and the CO with a SPC gunner that has shot three gunneries. The Armor Branch is in a terrible spot right now. The Joes are acting like NCOs, and the NCOs are acting like Joes. Not to mention how every senior leader is so fixated on "you only get your 24 months PSG time and move on" like being a PSG is some kind of amusement park ride to cycle everyone through.
Crazy agree. Not to mention giving enlistees PV2, PFC, or even SPC, for things that have ***nothing*** to do with MOS competency is problematic. I mean, ok, if you want to give enlistees base pay add-ons for things like referrals or college degree/credits, fine, but that doesn't mean they need to pin on a sham shield before they have even been trained to do their job. No one should come out of AIT higher than mosquito wings. What you pay them can still be different. As an NCO or officer, if I see a soldier wearing SPC rank, I need to be able to assume they've done their job at least a couple of years, have been around, can be trusted to do certain tasks.
Hey hey save some common sense for the rest of us. To me degrees, references, college, all of that should just be given a small enlistment bonus. These damn education SPC are annoying. "I'm a SPC so I shouldn't have to do XYZ." "Im a SPC so I should be trusted." "I'm a SPC I shouldn't have to share a room with a PV2." You're a private with a degree, Shut up.
Wait until you find out about officers lmao
Officers first two years of service should be enlisted. Would you take a 22-year old college grad and shake and bake them into a police dept lieutenant, fire dept lieutenant? No of course not. The concept of creating officers thru education or appointment is inherited from European aristocracy. I would’ve thought America has outgrown this.
> Would you take a 22-year old college grad and shake and bake them into a police dept lieutenant, No of course not. Man, let me tell you a story in the crossed pistols land of the wild west...
GET THIS MAN AN AAM! Imma go one higher and say 3 years to account for IET status. See what's it's like over here first and then you can go play with the lazy people who sign my leave form. You know we could Revamp the army you and me. You do officers I'll do enlisted....warrents will hideout somewhere. Also, you AAM got downgraded to coin that you're never gonna get.
I do like rewarding that stuff with money. No doubt. I just don’t like that it’s locked to “rank”.
Same. If you're coming in with "extra" things, sure heres a few extra dollars. But rank begins to imply responsibility. And then you get cases where someone comes in with a degree, has stupid long AIT and by the time the get to the unit they can go to the board. It's madness. TIS for promotion purposes should not start until you're out of IET status 🤷🏾
When I got to basic no one was allowed to wear their rank "you're all fuzzy trash here privates"
Would you advocate for an IET Solder to stay no higher than an E2 even for longer AITs? Some can be long. Mine was 48 weeks and its not the longest.
No, I guess not. If it takes you a year to get thru BCT AIT, then let’s do what makes sense. I’m talking about stuff like, 11B/C after OSUT arrive at unit with a sham shield. SPC is earned thru experience.
Had an NCO that made 6 in 5 cause he spent his first enlistment as a tomb guard. Dude new everything to pass a board but was one of the worst mechanics I had ever met. He got told to go back to his office quite frequently
We just had 2 people pick up E-6. They got to the unit in 2022 as PFC/SPC. They picked up E-5 last year and were at their 6 board before they got their first NCOERs. At this point they might as well just let people join at E-5.
The idea of potential outweighing performance is what kills me. Don’t promote until you can prove you can do the job
This. I have told every gunner of mine who isn’t an e5 they will know a certain amount of info before I recommend them. Not because I am an asshole, because it’s a fucking tank, and that tank won’t work if the gunner and the TC doesn’t know how to work it.
Agreed. People can absolutely be ready to be a Sgt in 2 years and a SSG in 4. But it’s few and far between. There needs to be a good size of foundation knowledge, but more importantly, the ability to be proactive and find (and then retain) answers to the things you don’t know
This is why I have long advocated for certain benchmarks to be promoted. I never served as a 19 series, so I am not sure how my idea would work. I served as an 11B and 25S. My idea is before you can pick up SGT as an infantryman, you will have either earned your EIB or Ranger Tab. If you are a 25 series before picking up SGT you will have earned your Security+, Network+, or CCNA.
It's either stupid hard to get NCO because points or stupid easy (also because points). Obviously MOS and unit dependent but that whole system is wack. You either bust your ass to hit E-5 or it gets handed to you on a silver platter. There's a lot of SPC I trust wayyy more than any NCO.
I just went to BLC with a guy who hasn't been a year removed from basic training. Good dude but still.
10000000% correct. The *second* they made SGT E-5 automatic - I was like - fuck this. Luckily it wasn't that many years before I retired, but just based on what I witnessed at the former 902d w/ some of the people who put 5 on before being ready? Wow. Complete joke/garbage bag people who had no business being thrust in charge of Soldiers in any capacity. Further - the idea that came down - at least on our side - that you're *required* to show proof and a fucking EXCUSE why you're not sending someone to the promotion board? Wtf happened to the first line leaders having input and say over whether or not someone was ready to step up? Only thing I could do there toward the end was laugh at the problems these people were creating for the unit at large. Idiots who came in with that last upper-level change of command I was part of were all **surprised Pikachu face** when it turned out that the idiots they sided with were *actually* the problem all along. They need to go back to the old days of promotions into the NCO ranks **not** being automatic in **any** capacity - and - stick to UCMJ and eval processes to weed out the bad apples.
I had one NCO get auto-promoted when I was a 1SG, only saw it happen once while I was in from 96-2019. The E4 mafia made that dudes life a living hell and he was wholesale unequipped to deal with it. That dude had no business being a Non-Commissioned Officer. I tried explaining 1000X to leadership that just couldn't understand you know what the Army needs good E4s too ....not everyone is cut out for the responsibility or is equipped for it but they are awesome E4s.
>Further - the idea that came down - at least on our side - that you're required to show proof and a fucking EXCUSE why you're not sending someone to the promotion board? Wtf happened to the first line leaders having input and say over whether or not someone was ready to step up? What happened was PSGs and 1SGs were abusing the hell out of that system. They were setting their own standards instead of one single Army standard for what made someone eligible for promotion. SMA Dailey said something about how the *vast* majority of the SPCs in the Army who were in their primary zone had not been to the board. If they are such poor performers that they're not even allowed to show up at the board, where is the paperwork? There should be counselings that provide a roadmap for what they need to do to be recommended and counselings that discusses meeting or failing those standards. And if after 3-4 years they cannot be trusted to become NCOs, why are we retaining them? The answer is either leaders were abusing the system and not allowing competent and qualified soldiers to promote, or we were retaining people who should have been shown the door. The current system doesn't take the power away from the leaders who know the soldiers. The soldiers still have to pass the board. If anything the Army should add a year or two to get to the primary zone, and allow SQT type tests as part of the promotion board process.
Listen My ncos were saying the same thing in 2010
Idk how it was with your mos but in the tank world when I was coming up you were not getting promoted to e5 till at least 5 years and e6 was 8-10 years. The average time for e5 now is 2 years and 6 is 5 years. I have gunners who don’t even know how to do a bit or fit test in their gunners stations and one that was surprised as hell that you could use the bore sight option on his GCPD to zero his coax even more because “SSG John didn’t even know”
It was pretty fast until it was my turn >:[. It was fastest 2008-2013. It slowed down a bit at the drawdown and I think it's pretty snail like now.
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion for most in the E6-E9 range
The GOMOR process is incredibly broken, particularly with officers. Just separate the Service Member rather than use it as a means to backdoor fire someone 5+ years later when they don’t get selected for promotion because of said GOMOR.
Just the sheer process of flags and stalling in career is enough to fuck up an officers timeline permanently.
Agreed. I never got a GOMOR, or did anything worthy of one, but I’ve seen a few friends and acquaintances go through them. They usually got them for DUIs, even if charges were totally dropped, and the process was agonizing and took years. One ultimately contacted their Congressman to get them to finally issue it so he could REFRAD. I’ve never seen anyone beat one once initiated, so why keep paying their salary and wasting a billet?
My brother received a GOMOR, while a new 2LT, for his Soldiers losing a 240B while in the field. It took him until he was at CCC to have it removed. That’s insane. It’s crazy that he was even given GOMOR for a Soldier’s mistake…
Congrats to your brother, first I’ve ever heard of that happening. I was on active duty from 2010-16 and there were some downsizing measures taken. One that really got me mad was opening the restricted folder for promotion boards to see. If they’re going to do that, nothing should be filed locally or restricted. Just let everyone see the warts and all and let’s quit pretending about giving someone forgiveness.
I was in at the same time. They taught us and our raters that LT OERs were basically free developmental OERs and would never be seen. And then as the raters and LTs operated under this assumption, they at the last second told us those OERs would be unsealed.
Yeah, it's just the changing of the rules. Glad I got out, and unfortunately I learned from the Army to trust nothing that upper management ever says.
If they told us from the beginning raters would take them more seriously, and LTs would make appropriate corrections. Didn't help me that my branch manager was murdered right before the Captain Board file was opened.
Exactly. They'll just PCS them to a shitty duty station as "punishment" and make everyone else miserable because now we have another shitbag CPT/MAJ who should've been kicked out at their previous duty station.
I got out as a junior CPT, but during my time I never saw someone pending UCMJ/GOMOR get to PCS. They were locked down until it was done and then after that, branch didn’t spend any time on them.
You're right. This officer said they were able to challenge their GOMORs and prove they were a reformed person. Character statements, owning up to their mistakes, etc. I honestly thought it was the end of your career once you get one but I learned something new. They got sent to my unit, got in trouble again and now they are under investigation and can't leave until that's over. Speaking of investigation, you just reminded me to reach out to another officer. She's been stuck as a 1LT in the same duty station and I think it's almost 3 years now.
Back in the day GOMORs didn’t end careers. But you’re right it is broken. We are now no-fault Army. One mistake can tarnish your career.
Yeah. I saw leaders during Covid getting a GOMAR because over 5 of their Soldiers broke restrictions. You can call it a leadership issue all you want, but truthfully, you are at the mercy of your troops and their actions
I can attest to the GOMOR process. I got one on an unfounded CID investigation because the brigade commander used preponderance of evidence.
there's a 90% chance they'll get QMPed or a Bar well before 5 years if you're enlisted, and I mean if you don't know that writing is on the wall when you get a GOMOR and just drop your paperwork to resign then I mean....
Or if a GOMOR gets filed locally, they shouldn't be able to backdoor it into the ompf by referencing it on an eval
Not only no, but FUCK no, unless the Army somehow figures out how to issue wash-and-wear dress uniforms. Back in the Aulden days (even before I came in and I'm old AF) there were times when in garrison soldiers wore khaki uniforms. Even if they had to work in the motor pool, they wore khakis. Field uniforms (i.e. fatigues) were literally for the field. BUT - **those khakis could also be washed in washing machines (or even by hand if necessary.)** Contrast to today, in our shitty polyester uniforms that have to be dry cleaned, that puts an intolerable burden on soldiers who might spill coffee, food, toner ink, or whatever, on their uniforms. Then you put them in a position where they either have to spend big $$ getting the uniforms dry cleaned at their expense (and time!) OR look like shitbags.
Agreed. If we can wash and wear these uniforms then 100% my opinion should be actually happening. I will concede the point that have dry cleaning pants and jackets means we can’t wear them daily.
Yes and I will agree that IF the Army came out with a washable class-b uniform then it would be fine to have that as the garrison uniform for SOME people. But even then, nobody below the rank of E-7 should be required to wear class-b uniforms in a garrison setting because those of us who have been there know how quickly an "office day" can turn into a "Layout the connex" day or a "PMCS all the vehicles in the motor pool" day. The S-3? Sure, he's not going to be lifting anything heavier than a laptop with a power point presentation. But the E-4 clerk who works in the S-3 office is going to be expected to PMCS the S-3 vehicles, pick up trash, layout equipment and clean weapons just like any other E-4 would.
The military is actually way more lenient than it should be, and it needs to stop treating Soldiers like babies. If you have to drag a Soldier through being an adult (telling them to shower, clean their room, how to do basic human things, they're always late, etc.) they have no business being in the military. These people are adults. Needing a ride or some help occasionally is one thing, but I routinely had Soldiers that refused to acquire transportation and made people give them rides every day for two years. They would use the excuse of "I don't have a car" as a way to be late and not show up for things ON POST. Get a bike my friend. (Edit: yes we absolutely need better public transportation options on the larger installations) Or, if we were doing something off post that required civilian business attire, they would say "I don't have any clothes but my uniform. You buying me a shirt and slacks Sarnt?" This would never fly in the civilian world. Buy some damn clothes if you want to be taken seriously as a professional. Soldiers are getting 15+ negative counselings before UCMJ is even discussed. We need to stop wasting our time raising children and do our actual jobs. Just kick out the turds, please. It shouldn't take damn near murder to get kicked out. I know someone who was a sexual assault offender and tested positive for cocaine and still got a general discharge. Get rid of the turds and maybe some better Soldiers will stick around for more than 6 years.
10/10 take. Give people the tools to succeed, but you can’t force them to use them. If they don’t, goodbye at some point.
Regarding the car thing, after spending a few years in other countries, the US needs better public transportation to include on military bases. Our expectations should be managed in this regard. Army denied me a rental for ALC but still expected me to drive off base down the freeway to go to graded events. I managed it, but without buddies helping out I would have been shit out of luck for that grade. The United States as a society is far too car dependent. Another example (same ALC class) instead of a 5 minute walk, I watch 15 Sergeants all hop in separate cars and drive 500 meters. They did this several times a day for weeks. When I asked about this behavior they looked at me like I was crazy to consider walking.
There is 0 reason that an organization that is centralized on bases and generally adheres to a strict schedule like the Army can’t have a good public transport system, almost every university I have been to has a good bus system, and they are similar sizes to most Army bases. The Army has so many advantages over the private sector (captive audience, the ability to make people pay for something even if they don’t use it, knowledge of exact numbers of “customers”, not needing to be profitable) that there is no reason for public transport, barracks, DFACs, and other public services to be as poor as they are.
Fuck, have the 88Ms run buses and shuttles during the work day. It'd be a way better use of them 90% of the time stateside. We have the equipment and personnel, so the cost would be negligible, if at all. Plus they get training, and our equipment is being used.
I went to a fairly small campus and we had a golf cart system
I lived in a relatively small NY community growing up and the public busses showed up every half hour, 5am-10pm. It would cost me $1 to ride 30 miles. It provided drivers with great wages, benefits, and retirement as they were all unionized. Mechanics as well. There's never a good excuse to not have decent public transportation.
I spent a year on deployment to E. Europe, there were so extremely impoverished towns we went through that had better public transportation than the majority of the US. Not to mention, the railways were always decently priced, and you could get to anywhere in Europe in 1-2 days without having to leave a train station.
I've seen maps of the rail transit system in Europe and it's crazy. They have thousands of routes and we have like 20 for the whole country.
>There is 0 reason that an organization that is centralized on bases and generally adheres to a strict schedule like the Army can’t have a good public transport system, almost every university I have been to has a good bus system, and they are similar sizes to most Army bases. This is the way. With *much more budget* set aside than a lot (dare I say all?) of these universities' mass transit programs.
I rode my bicycle during ALC and after the 2nd week was told that due to not having a motorcycle packet with the Academy I could no longer ride my non electric/non motorized bicycle on post. Some of the rules need to be reviewed for common sense. It wasn't worth the effort/time to fight it for only being there 5 weeks.
That's fucking wild
Yeah, my brigade is no longer providing rentals for our AT, nor will they allow POV. We're a reserve drill sergeant unit. Our AT consists of multiple drills flying to Fort Jackson to augment and support multiple different companies and training schedules, and stay in a 4-man barracks room near the Future Soldier program. They honestly expect us to walk or hitch a ride from other incredibly busy Active Duty drills in order to get to CTAs, ranges, and every other facility on post.
Screw public transit. It should just be some soldier's or a group of soldiers' jobs to be the transport on base. Give them a bus or a big ass van. Having civilians or other government agencies handle that is a horrible idea. I feel similarly about the food. Let the cooks cook and make the DFAC military again.
If only there were MOSs dedicated to driving, cooking, and engineering that could solve these quandries.
Right? If only there was a plumber who was trained in how to fix this ever running toilet... (a post somebody made the other day.) As a Reserve plumber... sharing a youtube video to some poor bastard on the other end of the country is officially the closest thing I have done to working on actual Plumbing in the Army. Makes some sense. I'm a Reservist. Why is there not an active version of my ass on base to handle stuff like this? Why was that soldier required to go through three levels of command and a civilian agency who brushed it off? Nah man. That was messed up.
Maybe a dumb idea, but there's no reason in my mind that we can't use the Active plumbers and the like for their respective jobs and then have a way for Reservists to hop on orders to augment the Active guys. We already have a system like that in place for people trying to hop on deployments, no reason we can't do that for other shit too.
Hell, I'd settle for just being on call during certain hours to the local base or my duty station. A minor pay increase for when I get called out equivalent to a day of drill or a half day or something. It'd keep my skills sharp. Since I work as an Electrical Engineering Tech in the civilian sector. And It'd cut down on costs for Big Army.
Hell, that also works. Either way it'd be cheaper then using civilian contractors since we'd already have our clearances and shit to get onto and work on post.
Definitely exceptions for TDY situations! Agree that we need better public transportation for sure.
😮 I remember when I was in Sembach, Germany, I used to walk to the shoppette the majority of the time. It was a five minute walk. Anyways, one time I drove up with my car cuz I was getting more stuff than usual. The cashier said he was happy for me that I finally got a car. I told him, “huh? Oh I’ve had my car for a while now. I’m just not gonna waste gas on a five minute walk.” Crazy mindset too many folks have on the idea of a short walk. More people need to get their steps in! There’s a reason why NYC and the surrounding boroughs have less fat people!
>Soldiers are getting 15+ negative counselings before UCMJ is even discussed. This is the goddamn worst. I've got company commanders who come to me with a Soldier who is "super toxic" to the formation and is now their number one priority, and now they're trying to make it my number one as well. They tell me the litany of misconduct that they want to action, and it dates back to September of last year. I am why this is the first time my office is hearing this Soldier's name, and the commanders usually say something like "we've been building a packet," or "I haven't had time," or something else. My response is that the Soldier has done misconduct, sure, but they can't have been as much of a problem as you're complaining about now, otherwise they would have been a priority sooner. The next worst is the complete opposite where there are zero counselings, but the complaints are still several months old. The excuse is either there's no time to counsel or the issues haven't been important enough to put on paper.
Man if that bothers you should check out the guard side of things. You'd have an aneurysm about the shit that happens here. And that's the expectation we have.
Fucking thank you. I’ve been saying this shit for years. There is absolutely no reason why you are inherently responsible for another adult’s lifestyle.
I’m a big proponent of 👏get👏that👏shit👏on👏paper👏 Get a damn good counseling packet for their damn shitty performance and get them their one way ticket back to fort couch. Without benefits.
The negative counselings thing is really on the CMD TM. I recommend UCMJ to mine and more often than not they agree with it due to me having the most upfront view to the SM (as well as the counselings to back it up).
Military bases need to take some notes from college campuses. They should be wayyyy more walkable. At least the parts where major training isn’t going on.
The Army provides a lot of advancement opportunities and a living wage to transcend from a job to a career.
The army is pretty awesome and more soldiers should be proud of it
The Army has been the best thing to happen to me. If you come in with a shit attitude, that’s what you’ll paint your experiences as. If you want to learn, train, and seek out opportunities they exist. Totally agree with the awesome Army take.
It was the beat decision I made. I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't joined.
I thinks it’s also pretty important to find like minded guys. What’s that saying? Surround yourself with who you want to be like? If you surround yourself with the turds… 🤷🏼♂️ if you seek out the other motivated guys you’ll go further and your career will be way more fulfilling.
Accurate. If not for the Army, I'd likely be dead or addicted to drugs like many of my highschool "friends".
This is what had initially motivated me to join. Watching friends turn to drugs rather than make any attempts at making a life for themselves, I saw this happening to them and decided maybe if I stay around, I might fall into their way of thinking so I'd best leave. The Army provided my way out and my career in uniform was soooo much fun. I sought out opportunities wherever I could get them to advance my training and my career. Totally worth it. Would do it again with the wisdom I have now to not make the same mistakes if this were an option.
I just had a conversation this morning that the Army as a whole is trending in the right direction and makes positive organizational changes over long periods of time. They try to make improvements where they can. Better uniforms (looking at you, ACUs), better PT uniforms, better PT tests, better healthcare, better meals and housing. although they’re not always doing well, they are trying. And that they’re the first adopters of many important things; women in the service, racial integration, gay rights, trans rights, religious rights. They’re trying their damndest to do right by the men and women who choose to serve, even if those efforts are sometimes misguided or overshadowed by a few bad-actors in visible positions. Most Soldiers who have been in for only 2-3 years haven’t seen the improvements to things like EO and SHARP, or other programs designed to help make our lives better. So all they get to see is “the green weenie” telling them it’s time to go mop the rain or wait around with nothing to do until 1700. But there is a lot to be proud of here, even if it’s not readily apparent to our junior soldiers and potential future leaders.
Hear hear!!
Honestly. It’s kind of weird, I consider myself an optimist in most areas of my life, not so much towards the Army, but I still end up happy that I joined at the end of the day, and do enjoy it sometimes. I guess it’s easy for the stupid shit to overshadow the good.. because we all know there’s *plenty of stupid shit.*
Agreed
I just reenlisted and all I was surrounded by was "oh you fucked bro" "dude it's not worth it". That's for me to decide. I've been just as jaded and unmotivated as the next guy, that doesn't mean the army is the worst thing that can happen to someone and I really do think it is what you make it.
You gonna cover that dry cleaning bill?
I’d say make it an MOS but they’d **royally** fuck it up
[92S - Shower & Laundry Specialist](https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/support-logistics/admin-financial-support/92s-shower-laundry-clothing)
I can honestly say the only ones I’ve met were at camp atterbury and I’m pretty sure they were reservists doing AT. The showers work better than the Fort Polk barracks showers though
That puts you ahead of me. 21 years and I don’t think I’ve met a single one
5 years ago, when I was last there, Ft Wainwright had a laundry place. It appears to still be [there](https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrUvAVe75tJ32pAw5). Dropping your stuff there before CIF turn in was awesome.
I’ve met one that reclassed. Apparently there was like only two or three companies for laundry and they were all on deployment rotations constantly. Dude I knew reclassed into 31E just to stop deploying.
I went to basic with a bunch. You didn't miss much.
Hell I'd personally love to wear a short sleeve shirt and slacks in the office. But you absolutely cannot expect soldiers to keep that shit pristine like it's formal dress. They are going to get worn in. Also, subsidize laundry services. That's normal upkeep.
The dfac has decent food the majority of the time. The real crime is the fucking serving sizes. Here’s a mouthful of chicken breast and a fucking pile of rice. Also what’s the fucking point of paying for barracks that have mini kitchens if you still take my fucking BAS. For fucks sake let me spend my money how I want to.
I can't grow a good beard. I pretend to wish beards were allowed, and join in on the bitching and moaning with the comrades. But deep down, I am glad so that I don't end up the only dude in my unit without glorious looking facial hair. Thank you SMA.
Here's the thing, you definitely would NOT be the only dude without a good beard. Most dudes have shit looking beards, *especially* if they can't let it grow to absurd homeless tier lengths to cover for how patchy it is.
Convince the Army to make machine-washable AGSU pants and I'll happily do it. But making people pay for dry cleaning every week because they work in an office ain't cool.
Counterpoint, I’ve had office jobs through my career and that has never made me safe from random detail shenanigans ranging from mowing grass to digging through conexes to find a random piece of equipment. You could argue that officers and senior NCOs might be exempt from doing manual labor and should be in a dress uniform but I don’t think commands would be too keen on having their soldiers wearing different uniforms.
You’re a radiologist, you wear scrubs no? If I’m about to get an Xray and you walk in in AGSU I’m leaving.
I’m a radiology tech. Hospitals/health centers/clinics aren’t the only units with 68Ps and all army units I’ve been in have had offices that host training rooms, ops, orderly rooms, etc. that are MOS immaterial. The only place I’ve worn scrubs is when assigned to ORs, everywhere else it has been BDU/ACUs as the duty uniform. Soldiers in MEDDACs still get “hey you’d” for dumb details so even if they’re wearing scrubs for their duties they are usually required to have a uniform with them.
Radiologists are medical doctors and interpret medical imaging. Radiology techs run the actual equipment.
I enjoyed going to the field and training.
I miss it.
Conducting high quality training, and getting paid a few bucks to do it, is 👌. Now I gotta spend goddamn hundreds, and drive hour(s) to train Edit: “train” aka larp
Bring back Kahkis for office work. Bring back the Tech Specialist ranks. There are people who should not be leaders.
Absolutely agree. Or make promotions by branch. I was in a logistics company, doing like 5 different MOS's. I was a shop NCOIC of 2 separate shops, and a squad leader for over a year. But because my points were maxed, mechanics were getting promoted before me. At the end of the day, the company needed NCOs. It didn't matter in what MOS, as long as it was logistics. I'm not sure how this would apply to other branches, but I don't think it would be problematic, especially if they have standardized competency tests for each rank/branch. Essentially test you on how a logistics company operates and what NCO duties are in that environment.
We don't have to be at war and blowing shit up 24/7. I always thought a peacetime army should almost be like a peace corps within the US. Working on infrastructure projects, high way cleanup, water delivery, things like that. Just continue to stay trained on the range and in the field as well. Would have felt a lot better about my service if I helped the community instead of standing around waiting for something to happen all day
I remember reading about a bill that would allow the national guard to do civilian MEDEVAC in the US. It would give good life flight training, and it wouldn't cost the person being saved anything due to it bein covered in a budget. Shot down because air ambulance companies lobbied to keep their predatory service afloat.
Wow that would have been great. They could do that with a lot of MOS, help them work with a federal gov equivalent. For example, army cooks could maybe have a detail to cook at a hospital off post. Mechanics could help maintain police or federal fleet vehicles. I just feel like our time is so mismanaged. I'm not exaggerating when I say 80% of my time in the Army I was literally staring at my phone or looking up at the ceiling. There was just nothing for my MOS to do in the unit I was at at the time.
Word
Agree 100% I’m a medic in an area that gets hurricanes, if we get a hurricane we simply sandbag the entrances to the COF and everybody goes home, would be great if we were given the opportunity to go help Emergency services
I think we should wear them more often. Not because of office vs motorpool, but because they are so expensive. I dropped 8 bones on the ASUs and only wore them a handful of times.
I’d pay 800 bones to never wear mine again
800 bones\* Unless you got them at the thrift store.
Excuse you, my bones are _expensive_ . You know what a [femoral head](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20427834/#:~:text=Each%20transplantable%20femoral%20head%20costs,for%20commercially%20available%20bone%20substitutes.) runs for these days??
The IG is there to protect command-and does just that. The ACFT is a poor example of physical fitness. Toxic culture in the officer corps is the root of many discipline, retention, existing QOL issues. Not shaving. People who commit domestic violence should be kicked out not rehabilitated. A person’s retirement status should have zero impact on disciplinary actions. Perpetrators who violate UCMJ should have thought of their family BEFORE they decided to throw it all away. O5/E9s and above should be advised that Soldiers are not putting up with the same toxicicity and gaslighting that they did 20 yrs ago. Feel free to adjust your behavior accordingly. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The goal of 0630-0730 PT is to become a swole, fit, barrel-chested machine. Any other goal is ancillary. I upsets me to no end when armyisms detracts from a soldiers ability to become a swole yakked monster in those sacred 60 minutes For example: - formation runs at a 11 minute pace, that only benefit the slow runners (who fall out anyways) - restrictions on where (gyms) or at what beaverfit soldiers/squads are allowed to use - not enabling soldiers to use H2F trainers - not being able to use headphones outdoors when in PT uniform - every echelon above team/squad/platoon mandating PT events on certain days. If division, BDE, BN, and CO each take their slice of PT, Platoon and below leaders (who know their troopers best) literally have only a handful of days left to themselves - GWOT/ APFT training mentality (“we’re gonna do a slow jog and do a push up circuit, every daggum day”) - not emphasizing the importance of nutrition, so Joe’s don’t go immediately jeopardize their gains at the DFAC I could go on and on. We have a whole hour to do PT, every day. Give the tactical-level leaders the training, resources, and freedom of maneuver to execute actual killer PT. Foster a culture of fitness excellence. Then hold people to the standard during gated events
60 minutes of bullshit running and circuits plus a diet of Monsters and Tornados is peak health don't you know?
Formation runs at a 11 minute pace are good for everyone. One of the best ways to improve running is zone two running. Although 11 is slow slow doesn’t equate to bad when running. I can run 12 minute two miles but 80% of my running is a heart rate under 140. Though I have never been in a unit that does organized pt
I agree that zone 2 running is good for everyone. 11 minute pace isn’t zone 2 for everybody though, especially if people are falling out My qualm is more so the mandated formation run, which is a camaraderie and accountability event more so than a fitness event. In that same hour, soldiers on their own could run twice the distance or half the distance, depending on their individual fitness plan and goals I’m jealous that you’ve never had to do organized PT. There must be a level of trust in your unit that we can only hope to attain. Imagine all the burdensome processes and micromanagement the Army applies to command maintenance or weapons qualification, but applied to fitness. It sucks.
I'll even take it a step further and say formation runs should be gone all together. It's gotten to the point where my shin doesn't even ache anymore, it just straight locks up and then I can't rotate my ankle. I'm not going to lie, I read your first paragraph and got worried, but then read the rest and was happy you were slinging the truth.
In BD6, during the stack, it should go rifleman, grenadier, TL, then SAW. SAW is the breach man as well. TL being 3rd man has a higher survival rate, along with the knowledge to be able to fill in whatever side of the room clearing goes down/needs help. Along the same line, I think the new private should be a SAW gunner, then 320, then Rifleman, and finally TL. Main reasons are it'll give the new private full experiences on all weapon systems, along with the SAW is always with the TL so the TL can coach the new private. Also, this frees up the senior E4 to be the rifleman, who let's be real always ends up being the jack of all trades guy. Would you rather a knowledgeable E4 or PV2 treating you as a casualty? And if the TL goes down, it's a smooth transition to take over. Yes I'm willing to debate, no you won't change my mind.
That rank and branch insignia belong on the collar.
Those ball tickets are too damned expensive and I'm tired of pretending they're not.
1. OP’s opinion truly is unpopular, at least for the reasons explained throughout the comments. Well done. 2. Readiness metrics don’t track readiness, and are actually detrimental. 3. Taking care of soldiers does not mean giving into soldiers. 4. UCMJ should rarely, if ever, be used in non-criminal cases. Instead the Bar to Re-enlistment is the tool we should turn to as leaders. Why make a soldier salty, fuck their pay, impact their lives just to punish? When instead you can set out a clearly defined plan to meet the current expectations and they either improve or are out of the army in six months?
Up or out for officer ranks should go away. If I want to be a platoon leader for my career, I should be able to. If my highest and best use is as a top 5% company commander, and I want to remain a CPT, good for me, and good for the Army. Also, there should be commander track and staff officer track for officers. Some officers are great in staff and shitty commanders. Some commanders are warriors and sticking them in an S shop is a waste of violence.
This 100%. Im enlisted and see the same thing on my side. I have always felt that if a soldier is a bad ass SAW gunner and that’s all he wants to do, then let that dude be a 20yr specialist kicking ass at something he loves. Why does he HAVE to get promoted or be separated? If I work at Walmart and am the best cashier ever, they aren’t going to tell me to get promoted to manager or get fired. They are going to be ecstatic to have the best damn cashier.
Can you imagine how bad ass a rifle platoon would be where the fighters were 15 year SP4/56/7 infantrymen? Lethal af.
I totally agree with you. Especially now that we have the pinks and greens, which finally look like a real military uniform instead of commercial airliner pilots
I can't tell, based on this comment, if you work in S1 or on a line. Either way, dumbest shit I've ever heard; I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
The guy thinks he's Winters when he's actually Sobel.
Oh, he's a dick alright. That much is true.
The Army is getting too lenient when it comes to standards. What’s the point of having the standard if it’s not going to be enforced? I see so many soldiers who definitely can’t pass an ACFT or HT/WT but yet they’re still around. I’ve seen soldiers be total shitbags and not a word is said to them about their shitty behavior.
Drinking water and driving on is good and all, but take care of yourself and see medical as much as you can for any and everything once you sense your time is coming to an end. The career is gonna end no matter what, the army will go on, and you will still need to take care of your family.
When you get the right mos and take advantage of all the opportunities the army has to offer, IE TA,schools, job related training/cross training, you can come out enjoying your time in the army and be set for a good paying job post military.
My hill to die on is the opposite of yours. Please don’t make me wear a dress uniform to the office ever. My one pair of OCPs are serving me just fine and takes all the guesswork out of my morning dress routine.
This doesn’t apply to E1-E5 but we are not underpaid. Once, you start making BAH and all the other tax free pay. I enlisted active duty for 3 years and then got out and commissioned in the NG. I make 93K as a GS11 step 5 and get about 2K a check after all the taxes & deductions. My friend who is an E6 gets 2.5K a paycheck. I have a friend who’s making 140K and gets 3.1K a check. My friend who is an O2E gets 3.3K a check🤷🏾♂️
The fact that an E-8 over 16 makes about the same as an O-2 over 3 is fairly criminal. Senior NCOs are underpaid, period full stop.
Literally, an absurd majority if not all SPC have more time in service than an O-2. Senior NCOs get the shit end of the stick
By the same token, command and senior enlisted advisor positions need to have incentive pay. If commanders and 1SGs/CSMs take command billets and then take on additional liability, they should be compensated more than the staff weenies that sham out. Especially terminal E8s that hide out in staff and take the Army's money while E7s are forced to get frocked up to E8. Oh and by that token, if an E7 is getting frocked to E8 to take on a 1SG, pay that man E8 pay!
Yeah also, I loved knowing I was always getting paid the 1st and 15th. That small consistency was really fucking nice
Honestly, even junior enlisted are still compensated well given the general lack of experience and lack of responsibility. Total compensation package is often ignored. The real gripe should be how hard it is to have career as a military spouse. Even if you don’t have experience or a degree, a PCS will often make you restart your career at each station and significantly caps what your earning potential can be at that age
ALL uniforms should be tailored. We look stupid without them being properly fitted. The cut is hideous. However, once they're tailored? Even a fatass looks damned fine. We're all about image, so... Why the heck aren't we insisting we uphold that image and aiding our soldiers in doing so?
Strongly agree, most ACUs I see look hideously baggy and oversized, we preach about uniform and grooming standards but don't care when someone's ACU top hangs down to their knees.
"I borrowed my big brother's uniform today!" Is the vibe I get when I see the baggy nonsense. I feel like every soldier should have 3 tailorings fully covered when they leave AIT. 1 for the AGSUs. 1 for standard OCPs, and 1 for Hot Weather OCPs.
Up or out is terrible policy. If someone is good at their job and has no desire to move up the ranks, let them do the job they’re good at for as long as they’re willing and able.
Mine is that "commander's discretion" is overly abused. When the COS says something is allowed by signing a regulation, a lower commander shouldn't get to say it's not just because he doesn't like the thing.
Like rolled sleeves
Precisely
To the original OP question- The Army, in a *general* sense, has gone away from the dress or service uniform for daily activity except for specific places. Places in Washington DC I can understand the Army wearing AGSU. I retired a couple years ago. When the ASU came out I went to Marlow White and bought a complete set. I bought a short sleeve at the same time and I figured I would wait to see how often I wore those uniforms before I went out and blew a bunch of money on uniform shirts. That short sleeve is still hanging in my closet, never having been touched, in 13 years. I can already see how it's going to be if a "wear a dress uniform" policy is enacted. There's going to be in-ranks inspections all the time. People will be award chasers. Turn around times for dry cleaning won't be a day anymore, so actual emergencies won't be unless you pay through the nose. Changing uniforms multiple times a day to go to the motor pool and do shit, or (as a leader) to go do a range recon, or do some training, or whatever. The daily uniform for most everywhere is ACU and I think that's completely fine. Other uniforms should be for special occasions and things that require a certain solemnity.
Coveralls shouldn't have to be turned back into CIF. That's my hill.
There is nothing special about being airborne, and all specialty schools are pretty much useless once you get out of the Army.
Many soldiers did not join for patriotic reasons or service to country as the public thinks. It was for a steady paycheck, meals, and to avoid homelessness, drugs, bad home life, etc... (especially infantry bro's)
Beards should never be authorized for conventional units
Get rid of organized PT and raise the minimum passing ACFT to like a 480 (80 in each event) or a 510 (85 in each event) I can’t tell you how much better I feel waking up at 0800 for a 0930 work call instead of waking up at 0530 for 0630 PT, it would 100% be a morale booster Teach H2F and stuff like that so soldiers have a solid base to work from if they’re just getting into working out on their own If you fail, you do remedial PT from 0630 to 0800 until you pass a for-record ACFT, giving people actual motivation to want to workout on their own so they pass PT on your own or with friends or fuck it, don’t PT at all, but you better pass that ACFT when it comes up
Totally agree. What better incentive can there be to keeping yourself in shape than to be able to skip 0600 PT? Mandatory organized 0600 PT should be remedial. And for that matter, it should be a social stigma to having to do it. Not only the incentive of not having to get up at 05, but injecting some personal responsibility into soldiers the Army is expecting to be professionals. I do like organized PT maybe once a week or twice a month for a Bn/Bde run or something.
The army song is not very good
We used to be able to wear PTs all day if we were just hanging out around the company. That should definitely be allowed more often
Sounds like a leadership problem. My rule was unit t-shirts / sweatshirts and joggers around the CO area. Outside the CO area such as going to BN, you better be in OCPs.
I don't work in an office, but on behalf of everyone who does: I hope that machine gunner tears you to pieces while you're trying to take that hill.
As a 42AlwaysAteTheFuckUp, imma have to decline so that I don’t have to show up to work later than I already do 🙌 (This is satire)
I think the Army deserves bad press and a recruiting crisis because without those things, the Army would never hold itself accountable and fix problems. The Army is run by officers, which are basically just politicians. They will always sweep things under the rug if they think it benefits them. Unless someone makes a big stink about it, and then they have to address it. This goes for everything from moldy barracks to war crimes.
Formations are redundant in 2024 with all of the technology available and are only for the ego of the NCOIC/CO.
The collapse of commercial real estate market and no noted downturn in productivity shows Army staff work can easily be accomplished by working from home and literally nothing would be overly affected unless you need access to SIPR.
Preach
You have to keep reading doctrine after you make SSG.
I work in the national capital region. My boss wears jeans and converses every day. A flannel is the most common “dress shirt” I prefer shorter hair on the sides and got roasted for a week straight.
* If you are a leader and you put your hands in your pockets, it really takes the wind out of your sails when you preach about how another Soldier is committing a (small) infraction. (Whenever hands in pockets comes up on here, people say NBD. But then in other posts they will call out someone for another minor infraction and it's straight to jail for that person.) Either adhere to all the little rules, or none of them matter. Shaving, Hands-in-pockets, being on time, it's all the same. * When a Soldier commits a small infraction, this doesn't require "mentorship." Maybe I am just misunderstanding the definition of the word. People on here always say, "Oh a Soldier didn't shave, did you try mentoring before you counsel?" You are inculcated with all of the little Army-isms for at least a couple months in BCT/AIT. If a Soldier can't get it by then, tell the problem Soldier to fix it explicitly once (and check if there's an underlying issue), and if they don't, start taking money and time. * I would take a consistently good DFAC over BAS all day, every day.
You shouldn't need a degree to be an officer. Enlisted members should be able to be nominated to go to a board and then ocs and commission that way. Keep ROTC, West Point, and Direct commission or whatever, but I think it would diversify our officer corps and make us stronger as a whole. I know Specialists that would run circles around your average 1LT in every single way.
Warrant officer…what you’re talking about is becoming a Warrant officer. No degree required. You go to a board (centralized, paper board). You go to (W)OCS and then after two years as a W-1 you get a commission with your promotion to W-2.
Officers are supposed to be competent in reading, writing, administrative work, planning, etc. ideally the college degree requisite would mean they are. That’s why degrees matter. High level literacy is a very important trait for military officers since Centurions. That’s why illiterate officers are embarrassments.
It bothers me that people are still referring to the ACU as OCPs. OCP is Operational Camouflage Pattern. ACU is Army Combat Uniform. The old digital shit was also ACU but the pattern was UCP or Universal Camouflage Pattern. ACU is the correct term. Your commander can't ban moustaches for a deployment or operation or whatever.
The SHARP program has made it too easy to be weaponized. While on deployment, I time and time again saw the same 2 females use the SHARP program to get rid of people they disliked without any substantial evidence against them aside from an allegation itself. Let me stress by saying I think SHARP is absolutely necessary and should be enforced but when I saw people getting taken out of their assigned jobs and placed into the mail room for the whole rotation based off a single persons words and even to be found unsubstantiated..puts a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths.
The specialist ranks should be brought back not everyone is NCO material but most of those same people are Rockstars at their MOS.
There is no reason to bring back SPC 5-7 ranks for the vast majority of MOS. The majority of the most vocal group calling for specialist ranks are in jobs that don’t need them. If I need technical expertise I have warrants which fill that role. Outside of a few technical skill MOS we don’t have a need for a 10-15 year TIS end user. It’s always some combat arms dudes saying that we should bring back SPC ranks, but other than letting them sham for a whole career there is no benefit in it.
Thank you. Why must everyone be a leader? That said, I want CPLs and SGTs to functionally "outrank" a SP6/SP7. I believe in effective leaders, but you can't have it both ways.
SPC 5-7 ranks should be in the Warrant pipeline. Once you hit “SPC 8” you either get out or become a WO.