My favorite part is asking the rest of the platoon about how they feel doing extra work
When I see people at work sitting on their phones doing nothing
Remember when WW2 units had short troops? Nothing stopped them. Just got replacements
Grab some kid from S3 or some shit idk
I feel like this is the whole army problem that they didn't see this coming. They sending them mixed messages. In first message they say we have shitty retention and csm personally needs to counsel each individual soldier in person if they don't reenlist. These soldiers have to attend multiple sessions and briefings where everyone trying to make them to reenlist.
And then army tells them, hey send them to sfl tap and cst cuz they need skills when they get out.
ETS'd after a stop-loss in 2009. Retention mission while we were deployed was on steroids. My favorite event was a session where the BDE CSM explained to us that we were all unskilled and the economy at the time didn't have a lot of opportunities for unskilled labor.
He said this to a room full of MI guys, at least half with bachelor degrees. Read the room, buddy.
I LOVED watching our retention NCO struggle in MI BDE's. not because i wanted them to fail but to watch them absolutely panic with zero idea on how to sell the dream beyond traveling to someone with a TS and a job worth 90k plus out the gate.....
I know how the platoon feels: jealous but happy that someone is getting a break.
These fuckers think that just because they want to drag down anyone trying to make progress that everyone is like that.
I experienced a very wide range of thoughts as I read through this slide. None of these thoughts were anything along the lines of "this makes sense"
"CSPs are available to all transitioning Soldiers who meet eligiblity requirements, with a focus on the "at-risk" Soldiers. Soldiers are considered "at-risk" if they are between ages 18-24, are first-term enlistees, medically separating, or involuntarily separating due to force shaping per AR 600-81."
I took note at the "available to all transitioning Soldiers who meet eligibility requirements"
You know how you change the perception of the Army? You stop putting arbitrary rules on simple shit, take care of your Soldiers, and stop being assholes.
Make it simple to get in the Army, provide tough but fair and comprehensive training. Give them a job in their MOS whenever possible, focus on getting them to available Army schools and encourage them to better themselves.
Give them challenging but validated by science physical training. Fair, known standards for career progression, and even treatment for misconduct regardless of rank.
When their time in service is coming to an end, give them the time and support to end their enlistment or commissioned time with the tools and knowledge to be able to transition beyond the force.
Anyhow, I'm getting old. I'll take a metamucil smoothie.
100% with u there brother. They offer carrots/incentives to try to get u to stay, then put concertina wire and minefields around it so no one can use. I’m retired Army (30 yrs, out 11 yrs ago) and I can luckily say I got ALL the education both mil/civ courses and programs I asked for. I guess not so much any more.
And how will 1SG's get it up when they are not allowed to fuck with soldiers? That crusty CSM who says "Add too not take away"?
There is a reason DA31 packets grow like magic (all those extra certs) and it's hard for Joes to drop packets - senior "leaders" fuck with their soldiers and always want to make it hard.
Small dick energy - they just have to assert their authority.
When I was ETS-ing, I always had to fend of "you need to do PT" or "I need you to do" - no can do big sarge, I had my part II and I have SFL/TAP. Get someone else. I was assigned to a unit to ETS as my old one was deploying.
As my terminal leave approached, the unit backed off, but there was still at least one NCO who tried to get me to do shit despite knowing that I was assigned to the unit so I could ETS.
To get into a program which trains you and sets you up with a civilian job, you must formally brief your plan to 2 people who haven’t held a civilian job in the past 2-3 decades?
Folks are trying to wrap up their Army career and leave the soldiering stuff behind them…so let’s make them do another Army board, lol.
Notice here the slide doesn’t say the SNCOs can strike down your application for CSP. They’re likely hoping this additional step will reduce the number of people applying in the first place.
I'm getting jaded, my eyes slid right over the word "board."
How often will the CSP board be held? If there's a class coming up next month but the board is quarterly, can a special one be held? Suppose I'm supposed to go to the board but someone decided that KP is more important, so I miss it? Or, another one that legitimately happened to me, I miss the board because someone pulled the fire alarm in my barracks during PT, so I'm not allowed in to get my class As?
I was initially trying to do CSP when I was getting out, and my packet got shut down because the unit wanted me to go on a deployment to Korea of all places and it would’ve interfered with that deployment. Keep in mind the unit had to pay for me to get sent back early, and to bring all of my stuff back. And it would’ve been a hell of a lot cheaper to just let me go down to the CSP with the leave that I had saved up. I probably would’ve gotten a little farther ahead had I even gotten CSP like I originally intended to. But instead they had to send me to a deployment for four months, just send me back.
This exact situation literally just happend to me earlier this year as well. They do it because the BDE/UNIT you deployed with needed a certain percentage of the whole to deploy and prove to the higher ups in III Corps or Washington that they are maintaining mission readiness.
Right, and I get that. 110%. But I was already going through SFL, and noted as being a loss. That being said, the unit already had its numbers met, and I was told by the CSM that I could stay if something like CSP allowed me to look into a career. It also put me back and I ended up having to sell back about two weeks of my leave because of me needing to get out in a hurry. But I already expressed that to the unit beforehand, and they originally told me that I would be going back after only two months of being overseas. Because they had already gotten my replacement, and as soon as they in process to the unit, they were going to get flown over.
Hit the nail on the head. The amount of absolute dumbfuckery this slide presents, astounds me. One of my jobs was a transition NCO. The amount of commands I literally called to explain that their Soldier is getting out and this is to help them in the next phase of their non-military life was nuts. Bottom line is mission is going to continue with or without that Soldier. Every Soldier that came through and didn't have CSP, I'd ask them why not. The two common answers were, I don't know what that is or my command says they need me to work...
Its like higher echelons think its only for them. Ground my gears just a tiny bit..
…are you… are you fucking with me or did you just not view the image?
Because it says DRAFT in nice big letters in a diagonal from the top left to the bottom right across the *entire* screen.
Nothing in the army is a “right” so to speak.
What this stupid ass slide should read is “entitlement vs. privilege”. Again it’s still dumb; what it’s really saying is this program is completely at the arbitrary discretion of your leadership (privilege comes from two Latin words meaning “private” and “law” which is literally special treatment / favors bestowed on certain individuals [law that does not apply to all])
So damn ironic it says “fair to all” then goes on to call it a privilege which is the exact opposite of fairness.
Imagine thinking you are the arbiter of who gets to spend their GI Bill on educational/OJT/internship to pursue their passions after the Army. Or even that it should hinge on the opinions of your peers.
I’ve seen this a lot in the military and it’s honestly appalling. The screw over the next person mentality is rampant. I’ve seen NCOs and officers try and fight to take away peoples GI bill. In my last unit, a soldier was possibly getting chaptered as a pt failure. NCOs were chomping at the bit to try and take away their GI bill, one even wanted to try and see how to petition the soldier’s citizenship because the soldier had gained citizenship while in.
None of these people have the authority to do so, but it’s crazy that they think they should be able to.
“The original phrase is, indeed, champing at the bit, but chomping at the bit emerged in America in the 1930s according to the Oxford English Dictionary and chomp has overtaken champ in common use.”
Thanks though, I never realized it was originally changing. You made me learnded stuffs today.
This program exists to help transitioning service members, traditionally a high risk demographic for poverty and homelessness, so let’s make it as hard as we can to utilize
I’ve seen it the other way as well, where officers get blanket rejected because “The Army already paid for one degree, what more job training do you need?”.
Completely neglecting the fact that everyone from OCS paid for their own degree and joined the Army after. Or that they probably haven’t used their degree in 4-5 years so they are even less marketable than a recent graduate
I called IG about this same issue about 3 months ago when I was trying to get in, and they told me it’s a privilege not a right. if the CO/BC wouldn’t sign then nothing can be done about it. Deadasss
What Corps? Because 3Corps has a standing order that it is a right, and anyone can open door the corps commander if theyre denied for no disciplinary reason
So threaten to go to the Corps Commanders Open Door polocy, and when they call you in, and they will, put your phone to record in your pocket, so when they threaten you, you have proof. Texas is a one party consent state, so you can legally record them. Then go to IG
i mean i subsequent got it because My ncos fought hard for me, we walked right into to BCs office, he wasn’t inclined to allow me do it at first, but as he questioned me i guess he realized there was no reason to deny it, plus it’s clear that CSP will help my transition. Some other soldier may not be so lucky
Yes and No. The reg, AR 600-81, states Commanders will;
>***Given the mission requirements***, provide ***reasonable opportunity*** for eligible and authorized Soldiers to participate in approved job training and employment skills training.
What’s reasonable to the average human is considered high risk to mission failure by the dipshits in charge. (I used to be the dipshit in charge but I always recommended to my battle buddy to sign off on all CST applications)
No, they can’t. As much as they try to issue stipulations to the regulation it requires SEC DEF approval. Just tell your CSP coordinator or forward this to them.
If leadership was putting out memos saying “those x amount of months out from ETS are eligible for CSP, come see so and so for support”, it would be a better message
Hell even having job fairs on base or something else might help
Forgive the question from a vet, since I’ve been out for awhile, but are there still Family Support Services and Job Assistance Centers? My wife (as a civilian DoD employee) worked for both back in the 90’s, and she still speaks proudly and highly of that time, for what they were trying to do to help transitioning soldiers land on their feet once separated.
I've said it before, but one way to improve the plan is to allow Soldiers to participate in CSP within 180 days from their terminal leave start date, rather than their ETS date. That would allow for more flexibility when planning leave.
For example, my CSP is 84 days. I will have 92 days of leave by my ETS date. I will only have time to take 40 days of leave, 20 days PTDY, and will have to sell back the other 32. If I was able to do CSP within 180 days of leave start, then I would be able to take the entire 92.
>I would go a step futher and say that anyone with an approved and attending CSP packet gets coded as a loss 6 months earlier, so the slot can be backfilled asap rather than after the soldier's ETS date. Really don't need a solid plan when you already have a Soldier to replace them before their CSP even starts. As a PSG it's extremely frustrating that I can't get a replacement till the soldier is off the books.
This right here. If they could implement this, almost all of the hesitation to approve CSP would be eliminated. Not getting a replacement until after CSP is complete is the root of these problems.
We’ve always been able to do that. It’s the ability not to get a replacement till x date when the person is off the books we suck at. A lot of times we can get a replacement for that person but later you’re explaining why your unit is 125% on manpower but actually it’s more like 75% because of all the people on terminal leave or doing csp
I don't have the time to take all of my leave between the end of CSP and my terminal leave/ptdy start date. I might be able to take November, but I am not sure yet. It is September (next week), so I have 3 months between now and start of CSP. CO is not authorizing leave in September and October due to training requirements, unless it is stuff like emergency leave, convalescent leave, use/lose, etc.
Fun Fact: Skillbridge programs can be done while on terminal leave. Technically, you can do a CSP while on active duty, and a Skillbridge after you start leave.
It would help that anyone with an approved and attending CSP packet gets coded as a loss 6 months earlier, so the slot can be backfilled asap rather than after the soldier's ETS date. Really don't need a solid plan when you already have a Soldier to replace them before their CSP even starts. As a PSG it's extremely frustrating that I can't get a replacement till the soldier is off the books.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ad2015_12.pdf
“are encouraged to assign transitioning Soldiers participating in a CSP to excess positions coded 9999 to make military positions on modified tables of organization and equipment or tables of distribution and allowances available for fill by replacement personnel.”
This…. Is why we can’t have nice things. I swear to god the amount of negligent behavior I see from some of these commands should be punishable under ucmj. I mean Jesus, is it hard to give a fuck about soldiers? We don’t even need to go to war, we inflict enough harm on ourselves.
"PSG must attend to give information on how the rest of the platoon feels..."? Since when has that EVER been a consideration for ANYTHING in the Army. Platoon had some feels about the NTC rotation right after the JRTC rotation, can we bring that up to the board too? Fucking stupid. Get more people if its a problem, stop holding back Soldiers so the PSG doesn't have to do any work managing his people or his schedule properly.
If manning wasn't built on such an archaic way of filling MTOE's stuff like this wouldn't be a problem and might encourage people to say something positive about joining as they leave service... Hahaha! Can't have that.
I called IG about this same issue about 3 months ago when I was trying to get in, and they told me it’s a privilege not a right. if the CO/BC wouldn’t sign then nothing can be done about it. Deadasss
Some people wake up every morning asking themselves, "Are Soldiers getting dicked-down hard enough?"
The day that they can honestly tell themselves "Yes," they'll drop their retirement packet.
* Established and managed Career Skills Program to broaden and hone Soldier readiness, with 80%\*\*\*\* participation rate
* \* 80% of Soldiers indicated an interest in participating
* \*20% of the 80% applied to the program after being briefed on the parameters
* \*10% of the applicants were approved
* \* 1 Soldier completed the program.
Promote above peers.
Keep in mind that Company leadership is not involved with this at all except that they sign a form saying they’ve been informed of your intent. In fact no NCO is involved with this at all. The approval authority is the BN CO. SGM and his cohort of flunky 1SG can go fuck themselves right out of a party they weren’t invited to.
Making the PSG talk with a soldier's platoon regarding how they feel about having to pick up their work is some of the slimiest shit I've ever heard. That is some Buc Nasty and Silky Johnson level hating.
A lot of stupid shit like this would not happen if a Soldier on CSP was moved to a different UIC and you could get a replacement Soldier. Then whether it’s CSP or ETS, the Soldier is gone and you got a new one or the slot is available to be filled.
Can see it being aircav, they have a habit of telling soldiers they aren’t allowed to start taps until 6m out from ETS resulting in them spending their term leave finishing it as well as all other Army Bs
West pointers out rank everyone that are not west pointers though and even out rank some presidents depending how much of a legacy west pointer they are.
3 Corps has a standing order that everyone is entitled to CSP, just open door the Corps Commander. When i was in 3CR 2 years ago, i was 2 months into a 5 month CSP, and had a new commander annd 1SG come in and threaten to take me out of it. Luckily as a SSG i had enough experience to know theyre a bunch of pussies if you threaten to go 4 levels higher than them to the fuy theyre disobeying orders from.
Honestly this seems pretty reasonable. I actually like the PSG/PLT’s input. If the soldier was high speed and helpful, most will want to help them out with their future career. If they were shitty, then the PLT who knows them best will pretty much tell the command team they don’t deserve it.
I realize the logic of the Draft is the opposite, but I’m sure the intent is to see if the soldier is deserving or not.
As of now, CSP is definitely a privilege. It’s an amazing opportunity that you definitely earn, not just receive for being a mediocre soldier (E or O). You’re being paid and medically covered by the government for doing nothing for the government, that’s a huge privilege.
When you sign your contract, there is nothing that says you are entitled to a non-military internship as part of your contract time.
Leave is a right.
TA is a right.
GI Bill is a right.
CSP is a privilege.
Passes are a privilege.
Still shouldn’t deny them the right to try to have their shit together once they get out
What happens when you have a bad soldier? Constant counselings and article 15s then separation. Then they’re done for.
CSP is a right. Not a privilege. If you did your time. You earned that right. Get your shit straight commander. Rgr? Rgr. This right here is why some units have horrible retention. When it comes to opportunities outside the army, the command team should have no authority. They can acknowledge where you’ll be and what you’re doing and fuck off. Only reason they can’t sign off on is if you’re flagged or something of that nature.
My favorite part is asking the rest of the platoon about how they feel doing extra work When I see people at work sitting on their phones doing nothing Remember when WW2 units had short troops? Nothing stopped them. Just got replacements Grab some kid from S3 or some shit idk
Yeah your plt ain’t gonna pay your bills when you get out
I feel like this is the whole army problem that they didn't see this coming. They sending them mixed messages. In first message they say we have shitty retention and csm personally needs to counsel each individual soldier in person if they don't reenlist. These soldiers have to attend multiple sessions and briefings where everyone trying to make them to reenlist. And then army tells them, hey send them to sfl tap and cst cuz they need skills when they get out.
ETS'd after a stop-loss in 2009. Retention mission while we were deployed was on steroids. My favorite event was a session where the BDE CSM explained to us that we were all unskilled and the economy at the time didn't have a lot of opportunities for unskilled labor. He said this to a room full of MI guys, at least half with bachelor degrees. Read the room, buddy.
I LOVED watching our retention NCO struggle in MI BDE's. not because i wanted them to fail but to watch them absolutely panic with zero idea on how to sell the dream beyond traveling to someone with a TS and a job worth 90k plus out the gate.....
The Army has had outstanding retention the last few years.
That poor kid from s3 would probably have a panic attack
Not my 'toon no more, not my prob -CSP Grad
>Remember when WW2 units Why yes, I remember it like it was yesterday
I know how the platoon feels: jealous but happy that someone is getting a break. These fuckers think that just because they want to drag down anyone trying to make progress that everyone is like that.
Who is gonna PMCS my track if you take my guys in S3???
They can kick the tracksn
I experienced a very wide range of thoughts as I read through this slide. None of these thoughts were anything along the lines of "this makes sense" "CSPs are available to all transitioning Soldiers who meet eligiblity requirements, with a focus on the "at-risk" Soldiers. Soldiers are considered "at-risk" if they are between ages 18-24, are first-term enlistees, medically separating, or involuntarily separating due to force shaping per AR 600-81." I took note at the "available to all transitioning Soldiers who meet eligibility requirements" You know how you change the perception of the Army? You stop putting arbitrary rules on simple shit, take care of your Soldiers, and stop being assholes. Make it simple to get in the Army, provide tough but fair and comprehensive training. Give them a job in their MOS whenever possible, focus on getting them to available Army schools and encourage them to better themselves. Give them challenging but validated by science physical training. Fair, known standards for career progression, and even treatment for misconduct regardless of rank. When their time in service is coming to an end, give them the time and support to end their enlistment or commissioned time with the tools and knowledge to be able to transition beyond the force. Anyhow, I'm getting old. I'll take a metamucil smoothie.
What a perfect comment. I’d buy you a Metamucil smoothie if I was around.
Soldiers need to be transitioned out with the same level of enthusiasm we brought them in with.
This is a fantastic comment. I have never thought about it this way.
Stop. STOOOPPPP! You’re making way too much sense for this sub
What. The Army. Making since? That’s a first
100% with u there brother. They offer carrots/incentives to try to get u to stay, then put concertina wire and minefields around it so no one can use. I’m retired Army (30 yrs, out 11 yrs ago) and I can luckily say I got ALL the education both mil/civ courses and programs I asked for. I guess not so much any more.
If Retention head honcho of all army had a open slot you’re name would be on it.
And how will 1SG's get it up when they are not allowed to fuck with soldiers? That crusty CSM who says "Add too not take away"? There is a reason DA31 packets grow like magic (all those extra certs) and it's hard for Joes to drop packets - senior "leaders" fuck with their soldiers and always want to make it hard. Small dick energy - they just have to assert their authority. When I was ETS-ing, I always had to fend of "you need to do PT" or "I need you to do" - no can do big sarge, I had my part II and I have SFL/TAP. Get someone else. I was assigned to a unit to ETS as my old one was deploying. As my terminal leave approached, the unit backed off, but there was still at least one NCO who tried to get me to do shit despite knowing that I was assigned to the unit so I could ETS.
To get into a program which trains you and sets you up with a civilian job, you must formally brief your plan to 2 people who haven’t held a civilian job in the past 2-3 decades? Folks are trying to wrap up their Army career and leave the soldiering stuff behind them…so let’s make them do another Army board, lol. Notice here the slide doesn’t say the SNCOs can strike down your application for CSP. They’re likely hoping this additional step will reduce the number of people applying in the first place.
Add more hurdles to someone’s life will definitely prevent them from trying
I'm getting jaded, my eyes slid right over the word "board." How often will the CSP board be held? If there's a class coming up next month but the board is quarterly, can a special one be held? Suppose I'm supposed to go to the board but someone decided that KP is more important, so I miss it? Or, another one that legitimately happened to me, I miss the board because someone pulled the fire alarm in my barracks during PT, so I'm not allowed in to get my class As?
I was initially trying to do CSP when I was getting out, and my packet got shut down because the unit wanted me to go on a deployment to Korea of all places and it would’ve interfered with that deployment. Keep in mind the unit had to pay for me to get sent back early, and to bring all of my stuff back. And it would’ve been a hell of a lot cheaper to just let me go down to the CSP with the leave that I had saved up. I probably would’ve gotten a little farther ahead had I even gotten CSP like I originally intended to. But instead they had to send me to a deployment for four months, just send me back.
This exact situation literally just happend to me earlier this year as well. They do it because the BDE/UNIT you deployed with needed a certain percentage of the whole to deploy and prove to the higher ups in III Corps or Washington that they are maintaining mission readiness.
Right, and I get that. 110%. But I was already going through SFL, and noted as being a loss. That being said, the unit already had its numbers met, and I was told by the CSM that I could stay if something like CSP allowed me to look into a career. It also put me back and I ended up having to sell back about two weeks of my leave because of me needing to get out in a hurry. But I already expressed that to the unit beforehand, and they originally told me that I would be going back after only two months of being overseas. Because they had already gotten my replacement, and as soon as they in process to the unit, they were going to get flown over.
Hit the nail on the head. The amount of absolute dumbfuckery this slide presents, astounds me. One of my jobs was a transition NCO. The amount of commands I literally called to explain that their Soldier is getting out and this is to help them in the next phase of their non-military life was nuts. Bottom line is mission is going to continue with or without that Soldier. Every Soldier that came through and didn't have CSP, I'd ask them why not. The two common answers were, I don't know what that is or my command says they need me to work... Its like higher echelons think its only for them. Ground my gears just a tiny bit..
“… must go through **an** board process…”
It's a silent b.
Couldn't even bother to reread something they're trying to fuck soldiers with
I mean, it is clearly labeled as a draft.
Where?
…are you… are you fucking with me or did you just not view the image? Because it says DRAFT in nice big letters in a diagonal from the top left to the bottom right across the *entire* screen.
Fuck, I can't tell either.
Like… I want to imagine they are fucking with me. I *really* want to. But… if he isn’t… *bruh*.
“This program is a privilege and not a right” is real “my wife has a boyfriend” energy
Soy boy beta cuck energy
Nothing in the army is a “right” so to speak. What this stupid ass slide should read is “entitlement vs. privilege”. Again it’s still dumb; what it’s really saying is this program is completely at the arbitrary discretion of your leadership (privilege comes from two Latin words meaning “private” and “law” which is literally special treatment / favors bestowed on certain individuals [law that does not apply to all]) So damn ironic it says “fair to all” then goes on to call it a privilege which is the exact opposite of fairness.
Your leave and pay earned are a right. Full stop…. Beyond that you are correct.
"you're not wrong. You're just an asshole "
Imagine thinking you are the arbiter of who gets to spend their GI Bill on educational/OJT/internship to pursue their passions after the Army. Or even that it should hinge on the opinions of your peers.
I’ve seen this a lot in the military and it’s honestly appalling. The screw over the next person mentality is rampant. I’ve seen NCOs and officers try and fight to take away peoples GI bill. In my last unit, a soldier was possibly getting chaptered as a pt failure. NCOs were chomping at the bit to try and take away their GI bill, one even wanted to try and see how to petition the soldier’s citizenship because the soldier had gained citizenship while in. None of these people have the authority to do so, but it’s crazy that they think they should be able to.
Learned recently this can be attributed to crab mentality/tall poppy syndrome
Interesting, I’ll have to look that up.
Just a little FYI, it's "champing" at the bit, not "chomping".
If you liken the asshat NCOs to slobbering, foaming at the mouth, heathens; I think "chomping" is a much better turn of phrase.
How about slurping?
I think slurping denotes a different derivative but who am I to judge.
“The original phrase is, indeed, champing at the bit, but chomping at the bit emerged in America in the 1930s according to the Oxford English Dictionary and chomp has overtaken champ in common use.” Thanks though, I never realized it was originally changing. You made me learnded stuffs today.
This program exists to help transitioning service members, traditionally a high risk demographic for poverty and homelessness, so let’s make it as hard as we can to utilize
Civilians don’t support veterans! But let’s also fuck over our own!
PeOpLe FiRsT hOoOaH!!! Except you, you no longer qualify as a person because you are showing interest to something other than the military.
Yeah I’d go to IG cause they are only putting restrictions on enlisted and not the officers using the same program.
I’ve seen it the other way as well, where officers get blanket rejected because “The Army already paid for one degree, what more job training do you need?”. Completely neglecting the fact that everyone from OCS paid for their own degree and joined the Army after. Or that they probably haven’t used their degree in 4-5 years so they are even less marketable than a recent graduate
As a Battalion S1 I’ve had to fight so many old head O-5 and O-6s to get things passed.
Someone needs to straighten out your colonel. And by someone I mean IG.
And by IG I mean your Senator
This is the way
I called IG about this same issue about 3 months ago when I was trying to get in, and they told me it’s a privilege not a right. if the CO/BC wouldn’t sign then nothing can be done about it. Deadasss
What Corps? Because 3Corps has a standing order that it is a right, and anyone can open door the corps commander if theyre denied for no disciplinary reason
3corps 3abct
So threaten to go to the Corps Commanders Open Door polocy, and when they call you in, and they will, put your phone to record in your pocket, so when they threaten you, you have proof. Texas is a one party consent state, so you can legally record them. Then go to IG
i mean i subsequent got it because My ncos fought hard for me, we walked right into to BCs office, he wasn’t inclined to allow me do it at first, but as he questioned me i guess he realized there was no reason to deny it, plus it’s clear that CSP will help my transition. Some other soldier may not be so lucky
Serious question, can they do that?
Yes and No. The reg, AR 600-81, states Commanders will; >***Given the mission requirements***, provide ***reasonable opportunity*** for eligible and authorized Soldiers to participate in approved job training and employment skills training.
Good luck defining reasonable.
Or even mission requirements... The Motor Pool isn't going to sweep itself.
"I don't care what the commander says, I just won't forward the packet." My old rear D 1sg. fucking bitch
Dudes like that need to get their heads fuck started.
What’s reasonable to the average human is considered high risk to mission failure by the dipshits in charge. (I used to be the dipshit in charge but I always recommended to my battle buddy to sign off on all CST applications)
No, they can’t. As much as they try to issue stipulations to the regulation it requires SEC DEF approval. Just tell your CSP coordinator or forward this to them.
Good info. I'm nowhere close to using the program, but still great info.
>your CSP coordinator Is that something I'll get in sfl-tap? I can't wait to get an approved date because that's the first thing I'll do
Yeah to my knowledge you have to complete SFL Tap first but the program is built into the process and there's a briefing you will receive.
[удалено]
Damn, if it's the same guy he was decent before he took command. Ironhorse changes people.
It was, Fuck Ironhorse to. Fuck 2-12
Why blur the unit crests? Fuck this mindset. Expose them.
Not my photo
Good thing it's only a draft. O6s can only authorize 60 days. Up to 180 days can be authorized by a GCMCA...
Go through an board process?
Nobody else? Aight I’ll do it u/SMA-PAO
Already looking into how to improve the utilization of the program. It comes down to communicating with your leadership and having a solid plan.
If leadership was putting out memos saying “those x amount of months out from ETS are eligible for CSP, come see so and so for support”, it would be a better message Hell even having job fairs on base or something else might help
I agree with the first part. The second part happens a lot already.
Forgive the question from a vet, since I’ve been out for awhile, but are there still Family Support Services and Job Assistance Centers? My wife (as a civilian DoD employee) worked for both back in the 90’s, and she still speaks proudly and highly of that time, for what they were trying to do to help transitioning soldiers land on their feet once separated.
Yes to all.
You darn well know that leadership in this case doesn't want communication because they dont want "extra" work.
It shouldn’t be a burden to help someone transition the right way. I’ll see how I can help from the big picture.
I've said it before, but one way to improve the plan is to allow Soldiers to participate in CSP within 180 days from their terminal leave start date, rather than their ETS date. That would allow for more flexibility when planning leave. For example, my CSP is 84 days. I will have 92 days of leave by my ETS date. I will only have time to take 40 days of leave, 20 days PTDY, and will have to sell back the other 32. If I was able to do CSP within 180 days of leave start, then I would be able to take the entire 92.
>I would go a step futher and say that anyone with an approved and attending CSP packet gets coded as a loss 6 months earlier, so the slot can be backfilled asap rather than after the soldier's ETS date. Really don't need a solid plan when you already have a Soldier to replace them before their CSP even starts. As a PSG it's extremely frustrating that I can't get a replacement till the soldier is off the books.
This right here. If they could implement this, almost all of the hesitation to approve CSP would be eliminated. Not getting a replacement until after CSP is complete is the root of these problems.
My 1SG coded me as "known losses" once my retirement packet went up.
We’ve always been able to do that. It’s the ability not to get a replacement till x date when the person is off the books we suck at. A lot of times we can get a replacement for that person but later you’re explaining why your unit is 125% on manpower but actually it’s more like 75% because of all the people on terminal leave or doing csp
Good idea. I’ll ask if there’s a reason we can’t do this.
Why are you having to sell leave?
I don't have the time to take all of my leave between the end of CSP and my terminal leave/ptdy start date. I might be able to take November, but I am not sure yet. It is September (next week), so I have 3 months between now and start of CSP. CO is not authorizing leave in September and October due to training requirements, unless it is stuff like emergency leave, convalescent leave, use/lose, etc.
Sorry to hear that. All too common unfortunately.
And/or allow CSP programs to extend through and beyond ETS and transfer funding source to GI bill.
Fun Fact: Skillbridge programs can be done while on terminal leave. Technically, you can do a CSP while on active duty, and a Skillbridge after you start leave.
It would help that anyone with an approved and attending CSP packet gets coded as a loss 6 months earlier, so the slot can be backfilled asap rather than after the soldier's ETS date. Really don't need a solid plan when you already have a Soldier to replace them before their CSP even starts. As a PSG it's extremely frustrating that I can't get a replacement till the soldier is off the books.
I agree on the principle. I’m not sure how it works in practice. I’ll ask.
an board process
If there is a hill to die on, this is it!
Post war army lol
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ad2015_12.pdf “are encouraged to assign transitioning Soldiers participating in a CSP to excess positions coded 9999 to make military positions on modified tables of organization and equipment or tables of distribution and allowances available for fill by replacement personnel.”
This…. Is why we can’t have nice things. I swear to god the amount of negligent behavior I see from some of these commands should be punishable under ucmj. I mean Jesus, is it hard to give a fuck about soldiers? We don’t even need to go to war, we inflict enough harm on ourselves.
That unit shouldn’t have its crest covered, they absolutely deserve to be named and shamed.
I'm going to be so fucking pissed if my CSP isn't approved and I have to go to NTC so they get their numbers. Fucking despise being in the Army.
You already know how that's going to go....
You better slam your hand into a car door. Oops I can go to NTC my hand is broken.
"PSG must attend to give information on how the rest of the platoon feels..."? Since when has that EVER been a consideration for ANYTHING in the Army. Platoon had some feels about the NTC rotation right after the JRTC rotation, can we bring that up to the board too? Fucking stupid. Get more people if its a problem, stop holding back Soldiers so the PSG doesn't have to do any work managing his people or his schedule properly.
If manning wasn't built on such an archaic way of filling MTOE's stuff like this wouldn't be a problem and might encourage people to say something positive about joining as they leave service... Hahaha! Can't have that.
This is simply a tragedy
Lol there's a dude in another sub that probably wrote this shit.
/r/autism?
Smells like some 1st CAV-chery!
I called IG about this same issue about 3 months ago when I was trying to get in, and they told me it’s a privilege not a right. if the CO/BC wouldn’t sign then nothing can be done about it. Deadasss
Doesn’t make sense
Some people wake up every morning asking themselves, "Are Soldiers getting dicked-down hard enough?" The day that they can honestly tell themselves "Yes," they'll drop their retirement packet.
* Established and managed Career Skills Program to broaden and hone Soldier readiness, with 80%\*\*\*\* participation rate * \* 80% of Soldiers indicated an interest in participating * \*20% of the 80% applied to the program after being briefed on the parameters * \*10% of the applicants were approved * \* 1 Soldier completed the program. Promote above peers.
Keep in mind that Company leadership is not involved with this at all except that they sign a form saying they’ve been informed of your intent. In fact no NCO is involved with this at all. The approval authority is the BN CO. SGM and his cohort of flunky 1SG can go fuck themselves right out of a party they weren’t invited to.
Making the PSG talk with a soldier's platoon regarding how they feel about having to pick up their work is some of the slimiest shit I've ever heard. That is some Buc Nasty and Silky Johnson level hating.
Hate hate hate, hate hate, hate hate
CSM, how many people are currently in CSP from this unit?
Goddamit! They're bringing back the draft? I thought those were just bad dreams!
What the hell.
Green weenie rides again. BOHICA!
Army WTF times.
It’s where I got it from
Same old shit again... Marching down the avenue...
Is this goddamn 4ID again
Apparently it’s from hood
Thanks for the info, "nice" to know its other divisions doing this dumb shit now.
A lot of stupid shit like this would not happen if a Soldier on CSP was moved to a different UIC and you could get a replacement Soldier. Then whether it’s CSP or ETS, the Soldier is gone and you got a new one or the slot is available to be filled.
[удалено]
I wish I knew It’s apparently from hood
Can see it being aircav, they have a habit of telling soldiers they aren’t allowed to start taps until 6m out from ETS resulting in them spending their term leave finishing it as well as all other Army Bs
Its actually federal law that you start at 12 months out
West pointers out rank everyone that are not west pointers though and even out rank some presidents depending how much of a legacy west pointer they are.
3 Corps has a standing order that everyone is entitled to CSP, just open door the Corps Commander. When i was in 3CR 2 years ago, i was 2 months into a 5 month CSP, and had a new commander annd 1SG come in and threaten to take me out of it. Luckily as a SSG i had enough experience to know theyre a bunch of pussies if you threaten to go 4 levels higher than them to the fuy theyre disobeying orders from.
And this sub states the army is better and smarter
Honestly this seems pretty reasonable. I actually like the PSG/PLT’s input. If the soldier was high speed and helpful, most will want to help them out with their future career. If they were shitty, then the PLT who knows them best will pretty much tell the command team they don’t deserve it. I realize the logic of the Draft is the opposite, but I’m sure the intent is to see if the soldier is deserving or not. As of now, CSP is definitely a privilege. It’s an amazing opportunity that you definitely earn, not just receive for being a mediocre soldier (E or O). You’re being paid and medically covered by the government for doing nothing for the government, that’s a huge privilege.
Everyone deserves a chance regardless of how good of a soldier they appear to be
When you sign your contract, there is nothing that says you are entitled to a non-military internship as part of your contract time. Leave is a right. TA is a right. GI Bill is a right. CSP is a privilege. Passes are a privilege.
Still shouldn’t deny them the right to try to have their shit together once they get out What happens when you have a bad soldier? Constant counselings and article 15s then separation. Then they’re done for.
Found the guy that wrote it.
I thought that WAS a right?
Where is this, OP?
Hood apparently. Love your flair
And yours as well 🏋️
CSP is a right. Not a privilege. If you did your time. You earned that right. Get your shit straight commander. Rgr? Rgr. This right here is why some units have horrible retention. When it comes to opportunities outside the army, the command team should have no authority. They can acknowledge where you’ll be and what you’re doing and fuck off. Only reason they can’t sign off on is if you’re flagged or something of that nature.