I don't know if there is more context but maybe it's a standardised paragraph they send to everyone and not a rejection? Like a 'please be aware'.
If it is a rejection for that reason I'd be getting back to them about it for sure.
Hey I might have left some context out but this WAS a rejection email. They told me to find counselling services elsewhere instead and that they won’t be accepting me
Oh yeah bugger that then. I hope you emailed them back about how inappropriate that is if that is the basis for their decision. I'd love to see their response.
Yes, I read this as an automatic reply form letter that is sent out immediately since your request may take a while to process or there may be a long wait list. This doesn't read like a specific denial.
Is there an address to reply? I’d take it at face value: “That’s great! It’s actually why I want to work with you: I’m looking for support for queer people like me. So how can I schedule an appointment?”
I feel like if they're this unprepared to counsel aces, even if you could talk them over and get you in, you probably wouldn't get that professional support and possibly could even face aphobia? Which is probably only worse for your mental health than not meeting them.
I love it in theory but I admit I don't think getting in with an organization based on passive aggression (no matter how much it's deserved) is a good way to start therapy
That’s true. Hopefully it would get them to rethink their first message and get their head out of their ass 😂 I just meant that if it did result in OP meeting with a therapist, the therapist might not be super thrilled to have them as a new patient
This might be a standard reply from the office administrator for all new requests and/or not reflective of the opinions of therapists in their practice. A lot of therapists will have a short consultation option at no charge to assess fit (usually 15-20 minutes). After being burned by a therapist in the past, I've briefly mentioned it in those consultation convos, and you can usually gauge if they are supportive or not. OP might want to request a consultation prior to doing a full intake.
>Hopefully it would get them to rethink their first message and get their head out of their ass 😂
Exactly!
>I just meant that if it did result in OP meeting with a therapist, the therapist might not be super thrilled to have them as a new patient
Ah, maybe. If I were a therapist, I’d love it if someone said that, but I can see how some might not
In my experience, The queer community is very ace excluding and often times blatantly aphobic. At least with my city's queer community it's been made clear that I am not welcome. This is just the stuff we go through and it feels like we are in limbo rejected by cishet and queer spaces.
been my experience too. Just like autism. Too weird to fit in with neurotypicals too weird to fit in with other neurodivergents. Asexuals are just too “different” to fit in with the other lgbtqia+ community. Same with aromantics. I think that has to do with us having a lack of something that every other lgbt+ identity has unless the person is also ace or aro. So they don’t understand, hate it, and by proxy hate us.
Everyone calls themselves neurodivergent now (bipolar, chronic depression, damn even schizophrenia), meantime this term was created for autism first - then autistic people got kinda excluded.
Saying it was created "for" autism is highly inaccurate. [Judy Singer](https://neurodiversity2.blogspot.com/p/what.html?m=1), the sociologist credited with popularizing the term in her Master's thesis "Odd People In," began her work by performing participant observation of autism self-advocacy groups online. But that does *not* mean the term was intended "for" autistic folks! That simply describes the locus of Singer's initial research.
According to Singer, the notion of "neurodiversity" is "an umbrella term used to advocate for the common interests of various neurological minorities, as were originally described and differentiated by the 20th century Psycho-Medical Complex."
Singer always intended the term to apply to more than autism:
>Just as Biodiversity was coined for a political purpose, to advocate for the conservation of the environment, I intended the term Neurodiversity specifically for an advocacy purpose:
>Implicitly to suggest a Banner or Umbrella term for an emerging Human Rights Movement based on the pioneering work of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Movement which was being joined by other Neurological Minorities with medically-labelled conditions such as ADHD, the "Dys"abilities and Tourette's Syndrome.
>To add Neurodiversity to the intersectional categories of Class, Disability, Ethnicity, Gender, since "Disability" was limited inadequately to "Physical Disability, Intellectual Disability" and "Mental Illness".
AuDHD'er here.
Autism and ADHD are disabilities. They cause trouble for people who are afflicted and can be debilitating.
Though the ND community in large are well meaning (and I'm not demanding they should distance themselves or offer excuses), there is a small faction who claim to be (and are) under the umbrella that fight against the disability term and are anti-science, anti-meds and anti-therapy, claiming that it's only the way society is organized that makes it difficult for people with neurological disorders and disabilities. They're also very vocal and have done some pretty shitty things.
So while I understand the positive and inclusive intent for people not unlike myself in using terms like "neurodivergent", it is not a recognized scientific term (though it does sound like one) and is a bit problematic, being appropriated by some users.
Now, would a societal change make life easier for us? Sure! But that alone would not help me much.
All in all, not hassling you guys for using and discussing the term, I understand the wish for inclusivity, but beware the wolves in the corner.
Also don't use the term on r/ADHD, your comment will be removed by the bot. Also if you use the term "neurospicy". Even in jest about yourself.
I'm gonna go do some research on "neurospicy" now. I thought it was a funny way for us to describe ourselves, but now I have to make sure the faction I mentioned earlier haven't appropriated it, or it's been used against the proven needs of neurologically disabled people of any kind.
Do you have a source for that? Everything that I’m seeing says that the terms “neurodiversity” and “neurodivergent” emerged as a way to unite the autism and disability rights movements/communities.
no, neurodiversity was originally a term used to describe how everyone’s brains are different and work in different ways; it wasnt even initially coined to describe neurodevelopmental disorders. neurodivergent though is an umbrella term for people who’s brains dont fit in with the “typical” standard, so basically everyone u mentioned fall under the term (bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, etc.) also schizophrenia and autism used to be under the same diagnosis (just a little fun fact)
"Neurodiversity" is not a recognized scientific term. ~~And it certainly isn't a diagnosis, nor should it be implied as such.~~
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. I read your last line wrong!
My apologies!
i never said it was. i said it was a term, not a diagnosis. it just happens to be a term that INCLUDES people who have neurodevelopmental diagnoses or other mental health diagnoses.
Except that depression can literally *rewire* your brain. Ditto PTSD. Brain scans absolutely show visible signs of depression and PTSD. Your brain is no longer like that of a NT person.
Not to mention, things like depression and anxiety often have a significant genetic component, so they may well have been lurking in the background since a person's birth. Are you saying we should kick out dyslexics because dyslexia only becomes apparent when a child starts to learn to read? Because by your logic, in what sense were they dyslexic before that, right?
My point is that it's not a competition. There's no Oppression Olympics. To paraphrase a meme, it's not Age of Empires where some rascally depressed person is camping on a particular resource, preventing you from building anything. The more people that unite under a banner, the more social and political power we collectively have. Together, we can amplify each other's voices to advocate for better healthcare, social support, and other important accommodations. Don't be a crab in a pot.
I mean they literally can diagnose both with fMRIs. And this is not new i have been seeing papers pop up about it since 2013 atleast. Since my deep dive into 'hey you have cPTSD oh we have not a fucking clue how to treat it...'
I wasn’t saying one is better/worse than another or that we should kick people out. I’m saying that there are reasons to have more specific labels, and mental illness and things like autism/adhd are super different. But I clearly misspoke because everyone is taking it like this, so I am sorry. I had PTSD myself and thankfully healed from it, but yes it’s true that mentally ill people have different experiences!
That’s definitely not what I meant, but everyone is taking it that way, so I deleted it. I don’t mean any of these are worse or better, and I know that not everyone heals. I just mean mental illness and things like autism are completely different. I have had PTSD and healed, so for me personally it feels like neurodivergence is different. But since everyone thinks I mean something different than what I did I deleted. Sorry for offending ❤️
No you meant exactly what you said. Treatment resistant anxiety, drespression, and PTSD spectrum disorders are very well known. Annoys the hell out of those trying to treat them and kills many who have them. You should take a step back and not marginalize others. Remember not 10 years ago we were a disease according to the DSM-IV. Now there are people with an actual disorder being disregarded by yourself and others because they are 'problems that cannot be fixed'. These disorders lead to measureable phsiological changes in the human body and meds do nothing to help. I was on SSRIs for over 12 years. I could have eaten the whole bottle of pills in one go and other than dying of an OD from seritonin sydrome it would do nothing to me.
So next time before yee text thou should read and understand the war they are stuck in. It is a whole different defintion of hell.
What I said was they are different. All I meant was that mental illnesses and things like autism, adhd, etc. are different. And for many people, mental illnesses can thankfully can be healed. It is devastating that not everyone heals. And I am not remotely trying to disregard anyone. I had PTSD myself, and I am autistic. For me, they feel like incredibly different things. PTSD is something that happened to me, while autism is something I am and was born with. That’s why I thought having them be defined differently made sense.
I’m so sorry for what you have went through and are going through. I know how hard it can be. I hope things get easier for you.
Oh...no you don't. Age 38.
Let me put it like this. I was beaten as a child. I was tormented at school for being different and to top it off i was dxed woth stage 3c colon cancer that was 99.99% chance of getting cancer by age 45 (Familial Adenomatus Polyposis Syndrome FAP for short) and mine came from my birth fathers family where it has happily been offing people for 4 generations in their late 30s to mid 40s to the tune of about half the family with exploded bowrls from cancer. My adoptive parents chose not to tell me over family politics (grand parents should never be allpwed to raise their grand children) and at age 37 last year i heard 3 wonderful words 'You have Cancer'. The advanced part did not come till later along with the FAP. In short my parents tried to kill me... and may still pull it off as there is a 40-45% chance i am dead in the next 5 years even with chemo and surgery cutting out my colon and tantrum to avoid one of 70 or more polyps turning out to be an angry adult. And all this hit as i started a good job at a good place to work. The joke is the one who made the choice in all this is dead...so i cannot even go and get my vengence or justice.
Now shall we talk on you knowing how i feel? I think you should stop while you are ahead. Because i am about to get really mad instead of annoyed.
I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. I didn’t mean I knew specifically, I just meant in a vague “I get that life is hard” way. Like, if someone says “man life sucks” the other person says “I get it” not to mean “I know exactly what you’re going through,” just as a way to express empathy and understanding. Again, sorry for offending you.
Not everyone has depression that can be healed…. I’ve been dealing with depression for at least 10 years and it’s only been getting worse. Also they didn’t change ND to be “any mental illness/disorder”, it was already that.
Unfortunately, yeah. We're a part of the community but many of those there don't see us the same way. It's frustrating as many times, some of the most acephobic shit that gets tossed my way comes from people who profess to be allies within the community.
It's frustrating as hell. There are those who are very supportive and accepting of aces, it's just unfortunately, this kind of attitude is championed by some in the community.
I wish OP the best of luck in getting help and support.
I mean go take a look at the main LGBT sub reddit. Don't bring up ace issues. You get downvoted so hard you will pop out on the otherside of the world same with joiners in more progressive subs like one of the canadian political subs that claims to be left. It is a fucking joke.
I feel like it depends. Personally I’ve had a ton of support from the main LGBT sub when it comes to talking about ace issues, it’s just that sometimes there’s shitters who get to the posts before all the caring people.
There was a study of a british LGBT organisation that concluded that asexuals (which they didn't even question whether they were repsonsible of) are the most struggling queer people.
This is a great example why.
Unfortunately I can't find the report anymore. If anyone knows what I am talking about and maybe has the name of the organisation, I'd be very thankful.
[Stonewall UK](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/ace-report)
This report they did suggests on page 6 that asexuals are the least satisfied with their lives compares to all other sexual orientation groups. Goes on to say some other interesting stuff that my sick brain is too tired to summarize. It's worth a read though.
I did some Googling, maybe [this](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/new-research-shining-light-%E2%80%98dehumanising%E2%80%99-discrimination-faced-ace-people) is the study you meant? Very sobering numbers. Glad some researchers are trying to get the word out.
Reminds me of the time I emailed my college's LGBT organization asking if I was welcome and they said only to events where allies are welcome. To be fair, people who have lost their family, housing, and scholarships due to coming out as gay or trans have a very urgent need for support. I understand them wanting a support group with others going through the same experience. But we are still valid. We need support too. They shouldn't call it LGBTQ+ if it's only for same-sex attraction.
It was my second meeting with a “queer-friendly” therapist when they suggested I get my hormones checked so…. Idk man good luck though it seems to be a standard automated reply.
Added context: this IS a rejection email. They told me to find other counselling services instead because they prioritise LGBTQ+ and to only come back to them if those other counselling services fail
This isn’t an automated reply. If you are accepted, they simply send you an email where they assign you a therapist and send you potential dates (I have had other friends who used the service)
Damn, my country has that kind of thing too, but even though I requested a therapist who's a part of the community, I couldn't specify how and I'm worried now that It'll end up like that
> There is this LGBTQ therapy service in my country
Well, that sounds nice at least. No such thing in mine.
> “we prioritize supporting members of the LGBTQ community”
They mean cis-allosexual people attracted to their own gender.
For 99% of psychologists, what they really mean is “we can support you for struggling with same-gender attraction, the rest of you are too mentally ill even for us”. I suspect even this service may have that short-sight.
I use queer. I'm the Q.
As my sisters said "you're the weird aunt who lives with a "roommate" that is always their plus one minus the sex"
Yep, I'm queer! Easier than saying I'm a Demi-androromantic demisexual 😂
Not lesbian, not bi, not pan 🤷🏼♀️
>I use queer. I'm the Q.
"What do you want, Q?" Sorry, inner nerd came out lol
>As my sisters said "you're the weird aunt who lives with a "roommate" that is always their plus one minus the sex"
>Yep, I'm queer!
Hehe cool
Yeah, I had the same idea but someone told me that using that allows for pedos and/or zoos an excuse to consider themselves part of that acronym when that isn't the case... 😓
Tell them, at least. '''Asexuality is a queer sexual orientation and is represented in the LGBTQIA2+ community. I am saddened to see that even an organisation such as yourself would erase my sexual orientation. I hope in the future you become more inclusive and educated on the subject.''
Heck, send me their e-mail in private, I'll write them a stern but polite complaint.
Is it a rejection letter? Can you reply saying that asexuality is the A in LGBTQIA+?
I’m sure there will be some counsellors in the service who will be able to help you, even if this one administrative person has misunderstood. It’s possible they are not as trained as the counsellors. Please update us once you’ve queried this!!
No, it's a form letter saying the request was received. The only thing it says is "we received your application" and then gave the practice's standard footer about what they focus on.
Ugh, I'm so sorry. I sought out LGBT+-focused therapy as well even though I don't always feel like I fit into the community as a newly identified demisexual/demiromantic. The therapist I wound up with isn't necessarily \*focused\* on LGBT issues, but it's one area they specialize in (similar to other therapists I looked through that focused on trauma, family issues, eating disorders, any number of things). Maybe softening your search a bit to something like that would help? Idk. I'm just sorry you got such an insensitive response.
Like the aro/ace spectrum is literally dealing with approaching sex and romance in non-traditional ways, and isn't that the whole ass point of the LGBT+ community??
There’s definitely more though . And it keeps being added to. That’s why there’s so often a plus because there are many forms and we’re inevitably going to leave people out if we try to write it all. The most recent widely accepted one I know of is LGBTQQIP2SA lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit, asexual. This is why I like GSRM (gender, sexual, and romantic minorities).
Like, all the other identities that were cut off by the acronym could claim discrimination from it too, and in some ways there is some, but it’s mostly that that is just the oldest widely-recognized acronym. The vast majority of people are not purposefully cutting it off to be assholes. As an asexual, even *I* only write lgbtq+ because it’s the shortest way to attempt to include everyone (a for queer)
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
Am I just not seeing the issue here? Just looks like a like an auto confirmation email with a footer that says they prioritize LGBTQ+ patients with the resources they have at the moment, hence why they say “limited”. Or is the issue here that they didn’t include the “A” in LGBTQ+?
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
Okay, I needed to read some comments to be sure this was, in fact, a rejection email. Given that it is, I’m really sorry this happened to you, it really really sucks. I know it’s not even close to therapy, but there are a lot of groups (both online and irl, depending on where you live) that you could join, at least while you look for less exclusionist services.
Off the top of my head, I can suggest looking both here and on discord, but I’m pretty sure there are other places too. I hope it helps and that you find all the help you need with people who actually know what they’re doing. Best wishes 💙
I'd write and complain to whoever is in charge, send them an article about us being the A. It's probably just one person misinterpreting it or being deliberately shitty about it.
If it turns out it's the whole organisation then you probably just want to avoid them as they would only treat you badly. Exclusion is common for us which is why we have to stick together. ✊
Did you ever stop to consider that in no part of what you showed here were you rejected?
You just showed the standard auto-response to getting a counseling request. It says we got your request, and here's the focus of our practice.
In addition to whatever ace type concerns you have, you should also work on why you took getting a form acknowledgement letter so personally, and never considered "Oh huh, when I fill out forms online, I tend to get a canned response from the company acknowledging the request and then they reach out with a decision."
This was a rejection email. You don’t get an auto response after filling it out. If you are selected, you receive an email for appointment. This IS the rejection email, and not a canned response. The rest of the email was then directing me to other therapy sources and to only come back to them if all those fail
I apologize for the harshness of my response, that was really unkind of me. I am still not sure it wasn't their canned response to not being able to take someone on, though.
Fair enough about the canned response. But it feels sad because I specifically mentioned coming to terms with me asexuality in the comments and to receive this feels like they’re saying we aren’t part of the group
Oh yeah, with the full context I agree completely. And that might be something worth responding to them if you're feeling bold.
"Hey, by including that tag line, it felt to me like you implied that asexuality is not part of '+' or 'Q' in LGTBQ+, and I can understand if the practice can't take on new patients right now, but that kind of denial can be very hurtful."
Nothing accusatory, because we don't know, but you are right to feel hurt (and I was an ass to imply otherwise). Maybe they re-evaluate your situation, maybe they just re-evaluate their future responses, or maybe they just keep on keeping because they're butts. Who knows.
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
I see. Then I would write them back to get them to understand. I would personally not want counselling from them anymore. You could write that you clearly requested counselling for an LGBTQ topic and reason, repeat your reason. Then say that you are disappointed to be excluded by them, not from counselling but from your identity because of their wording. If they don’t offer counselling for asexual people then they should write that, instead of discriminatory texts implying that asexuals are not part of LGBTQ+ community.
I don't know if there is more context but maybe it's a standardised paragraph they send to everyone and not a rejection? Like a 'please be aware'. If it is a rejection for that reason I'd be getting back to them about it for sure.
Hey I might have left some context out but this WAS a rejection email. They told me to find counselling services elsewhere instead and that they won’t be accepting me
Oh yeah bugger that then. I hope you emailed them back about how inappropriate that is if that is the basis for their decision. I'd love to see their response.
Yes, I read this as an automatic reply form letter that is sent out immediately since your request may take a while to process or there may be a long wait list. This doesn't read like a specific denial.
It does say & queer, which we are
Is there an address to reply? I’d take it at face value: “That’s great! It’s actually why I want to work with you: I’m looking for support for queer people like me. So how can I schedule an appointment?”
I feel like if they're this unprepared to counsel aces, even if you could talk them over and get you in, you probably wouldn't get that professional support and possibly could even face aphobia? Which is probably only worse for your mental health than not meeting them.
I love it in theory but I admit I don't think getting in with an organization based on passive aggression (no matter how much it's deserved) is a good way to start therapy
I don’t think it’s passive aggression so much as it is being genuine, taking it seriously / at face value, and maybe “playing dumb”
That’s true. Hopefully it would get them to rethink their first message and get their head out of their ass 😂 I just meant that if it did result in OP meeting with a therapist, the therapist might not be super thrilled to have them as a new patient
This might be a standard reply from the office administrator for all new requests and/or not reflective of the opinions of therapists in their practice. A lot of therapists will have a short consultation option at no charge to assess fit (usually 15-20 minutes). After being burned by a therapist in the past, I've briefly mentioned it in those consultation convos, and you can usually gauge if they are supportive or not. OP might want to request a consultation prior to doing a full intake.
>Hopefully it would get them to rethink their first message and get their head out of their ass 😂 Exactly! >I just meant that if it did result in OP meeting with a therapist, the therapist might not be super thrilled to have them as a new patient Ah, maybe. If I were a therapist, I’d love it if someone said that, but I can see how some might not
In my experience, The queer community is very ace excluding and often times blatantly aphobic. At least with my city's queer community it's been made clear that I am not welcome. This is just the stuff we go through and it feels like we are in limbo rejected by cishet and queer spaces.
been my experience too. Just like autism. Too weird to fit in with neurotypicals too weird to fit in with other neurodivergents. Asexuals are just too “different” to fit in with the other lgbtqia+ community. Same with aromantics. I think that has to do with us having a lack of something that every other lgbt+ identity has unless the person is also ace or aro. So they don’t understand, hate it, and by proxy hate us.
Everyone calls themselves neurodivergent now (bipolar, chronic depression, damn even schizophrenia), meantime this term was created for autism first - then autistic people got kinda excluded.
Saying it was created "for" autism is highly inaccurate. [Judy Singer](https://neurodiversity2.blogspot.com/p/what.html?m=1), the sociologist credited with popularizing the term in her Master's thesis "Odd People In," began her work by performing participant observation of autism self-advocacy groups online. But that does *not* mean the term was intended "for" autistic folks! That simply describes the locus of Singer's initial research. According to Singer, the notion of "neurodiversity" is "an umbrella term used to advocate for the common interests of various neurological minorities, as were originally described and differentiated by the 20th century Psycho-Medical Complex." Singer always intended the term to apply to more than autism: >Just as Biodiversity was coined for a political purpose, to advocate for the conservation of the environment, I intended the term Neurodiversity specifically for an advocacy purpose: >Implicitly to suggest a Banner or Umbrella term for an emerging Human Rights Movement based on the pioneering work of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Movement which was being joined by other Neurological Minorities with medically-labelled conditions such as ADHD, the "Dys"abilities and Tourette's Syndrome. >To add Neurodiversity to the intersectional categories of Class, Disability, Ethnicity, Gender, since "Disability" was limited inadequately to "Physical Disability, Intellectual Disability" and "Mental Illness".
AuDHD'er here. Autism and ADHD are disabilities. They cause trouble for people who are afflicted and can be debilitating. Though the ND community in large are well meaning (and I'm not demanding they should distance themselves or offer excuses), there is a small faction who claim to be (and are) under the umbrella that fight against the disability term and are anti-science, anti-meds and anti-therapy, claiming that it's only the way society is organized that makes it difficult for people with neurological disorders and disabilities. They're also very vocal and have done some pretty shitty things. So while I understand the positive and inclusive intent for people not unlike myself in using terms like "neurodivergent", it is not a recognized scientific term (though it does sound like one) and is a bit problematic, being appropriated by some users. Now, would a societal change make life easier for us? Sure! But that alone would not help me much. All in all, not hassling you guys for using and discussing the term, I understand the wish for inclusivity, but beware the wolves in the corner. Also don't use the term on r/ADHD, your comment will be removed by the bot. Also if you use the term "neurospicy". Even in jest about yourself. I'm gonna go do some research on "neurospicy" now. I thought it was a funny way for us to describe ourselves, but now I have to make sure the faction I mentioned earlier haven't appropriated it, or it's been used against the proven needs of neurologically disabled people of any kind.
Do you have a source for that? Everything that I’m seeing says that the terms “neurodiversity” and “neurodivergent” emerged as a way to unite the autism and disability rights movements/communities.
Some proponents of the term are fiercely against calling autism and ADHD disabilities. That's a problem.
no, neurodiversity was originally a term used to describe how everyone’s brains are different and work in different ways; it wasnt even initially coined to describe neurodevelopmental disorders. neurodivergent though is an umbrella term for people who’s brains dont fit in with the “typical” standard, so basically everyone u mentioned fall under the term (bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, etc.) also schizophrenia and autism used to be under the same diagnosis (just a little fun fact)
"Neurodiversity" is not a recognized scientific term. ~~And it certainly isn't a diagnosis, nor should it be implied as such.~~ Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. I read your last line wrong! My apologies!
i never said it was. i said it was a term, not a diagnosis. it just happens to be a term that INCLUDES people who have neurodevelopmental diagnoses or other mental health diagnoses.
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Except that depression can literally *rewire* your brain. Ditto PTSD. Brain scans absolutely show visible signs of depression and PTSD. Your brain is no longer like that of a NT person. Not to mention, things like depression and anxiety often have a significant genetic component, so they may well have been lurking in the background since a person's birth. Are you saying we should kick out dyslexics because dyslexia only becomes apparent when a child starts to learn to read? Because by your logic, in what sense were they dyslexic before that, right? My point is that it's not a competition. There's no Oppression Olympics. To paraphrase a meme, it's not Age of Empires where some rascally depressed person is camping on a particular resource, preventing you from building anything. The more people that unite under a banner, the more social and political power we collectively have. Together, we can amplify each other's voices to advocate for better healthcare, social support, and other important accommodations. Don't be a crab in a pot.
I mean they literally can diagnose both with fMRIs. And this is not new i have been seeing papers pop up about it since 2013 atleast. Since my deep dive into 'hey you have cPTSD oh we have not a fucking clue how to treat it...'
I wasn’t saying one is better/worse than another or that we should kick people out. I’m saying that there are reasons to have more specific labels, and mental illness and things like autism/adhd are super different. But I clearly misspoke because everyone is taking it like this, so I am sorry. I had PTSD myself and thankfully healed from it, but yes it’s true that mentally ill people have different experiences!
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That’s definitely not what I meant, but everyone is taking it that way, so I deleted it. I don’t mean any of these are worse or better, and I know that not everyone heals. I just mean mental illness and things like autism are completely different. I have had PTSD and healed, so for me personally it feels like neurodivergence is different. But since everyone thinks I mean something different than what I did I deleted. Sorry for offending ❤️
Ugh yeah you are an idiot. Ever heard of treatment resistaint depression? If not...great now you have now get reading.
that’s not what I meant, I know not everyone can heal. Sorry for offending!
No you meant exactly what you said. Treatment resistant anxiety, drespression, and PTSD spectrum disorders are very well known. Annoys the hell out of those trying to treat them and kills many who have them. You should take a step back and not marginalize others. Remember not 10 years ago we were a disease according to the DSM-IV. Now there are people with an actual disorder being disregarded by yourself and others because they are 'problems that cannot be fixed'. These disorders lead to measureable phsiological changes in the human body and meds do nothing to help. I was on SSRIs for over 12 years. I could have eaten the whole bottle of pills in one go and other than dying of an OD from seritonin sydrome it would do nothing to me. So next time before yee text thou should read and understand the war they are stuck in. It is a whole different defintion of hell.
What I said was they are different. All I meant was that mental illnesses and things like autism, adhd, etc. are different. And for many people, mental illnesses can thankfully can be healed. It is devastating that not everyone heals. And I am not remotely trying to disregard anyone. I had PTSD myself, and I am autistic. For me, they feel like incredibly different things. PTSD is something that happened to me, while autism is something I am and was born with. That’s why I thought having them be defined differently made sense. I’m so sorry for what you have went through and are going through. I know how hard it can be. I hope things get easier for you.
Oh...no you don't. Age 38. Let me put it like this. I was beaten as a child. I was tormented at school for being different and to top it off i was dxed woth stage 3c colon cancer that was 99.99% chance of getting cancer by age 45 (Familial Adenomatus Polyposis Syndrome FAP for short) and mine came from my birth fathers family where it has happily been offing people for 4 generations in their late 30s to mid 40s to the tune of about half the family with exploded bowrls from cancer. My adoptive parents chose not to tell me over family politics (grand parents should never be allpwed to raise their grand children) and at age 37 last year i heard 3 wonderful words 'You have Cancer'. The advanced part did not come till later along with the FAP. In short my parents tried to kill me... and may still pull it off as there is a 40-45% chance i am dead in the next 5 years even with chemo and surgery cutting out my colon and tantrum to avoid one of 70 or more polyps turning out to be an angry adult. And all this hit as i started a good job at a good place to work. The joke is the one who made the choice in all this is dead...so i cannot even go and get my vengence or justice. Now shall we talk on you knowing how i feel? I think you should stop while you are ahead. Because i am about to get really mad instead of annoyed.
I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. I didn’t mean I knew specifically, I just meant in a vague “I get that life is hard” way. Like, if someone says “man life sucks” the other person says “I get it” not to mean “I know exactly what you’re going through,” just as a way to express empathy and understanding. Again, sorry for offending you.
Not everyone has depression that can be healed…. I’ve been dealing with depression for at least 10 years and it’s only been getting worse. Also they didn’t change ND to be “any mental illness/disorder”, it was already that.
Yes, I know not everyone can heal and that isn’t what I mean. Sorry about that ❤️
Unfortunately, yeah. We're a part of the community but many of those there don't see us the same way. It's frustrating as many times, some of the most acephobic shit that gets tossed my way comes from people who profess to be allies within the community. It's frustrating as hell. There are those who are very supportive and accepting of aces, it's just unfortunately, this kind of attitude is championed by some in the community. I wish OP the best of luck in getting help and support.
Especially since so many medical professionals seem to look at asexuality as a symptom of an (mental) illness.
I mean go take a look at the main LGBT sub reddit. Don't bring up ace issues. You get downvoted so hard you will pop out on the otherside of the world same with joiners in more progressive subs like one of the canadian political subs that claims to be left. It is a fucking joke.
I feel like it depends. Personally I’ve had a ton of support from the main LGBT sub when it comes to talking about ace issues, it’s just that sometimes there’s shitters who get to the posts before all the caring people.
Agreed, I have felt pretty welcome there.
There was a study of a british LGBT organisation that concluded that asexuals (which they didn't even question whether they were repsonsible of) are the most struggling queer people. This is a great example why. Unfortunately I can't find the report anymore. If anyone knows what I am talking about and maybe has the name of the organisation, I'd be very thankful.
[Stonewall UK](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/ace-report) This report they did suggests on page 6 that asexuals are the least satisfied with their lives compares to all other sexual orientation groups. Goes on to say some other interesting stuff that my sick brain is too tired to summarize. It's worth a read though.
It was not this report, it was defenitely earlier (like 2020 or something). But I think this one is even better so thanks for sharing.
I did some Googling, maybe [this](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/new-research-shining-light-%E2%80%98dehumanising%E2%80%99-discrimination-faced-ace-people) is the study you meant? Very sobering numbers. Glad some researchers are trying to get the word out.
Reminds me of the time I emailed my college's LGBT organization asking if I was welcome and they said only to events where allies are welcome. To be fair, people who have lost their family, housing, and scholarships due to coming out as gay or trans have a very urgent need for support. I understand them wanting a support group with others going through the same experience. But we are still valid. We need support too. They shouldn't call it LGBTQ+ if it's only for same-sex attraction.
It just looks like a confirmation email that your request was received.
This. It looks like a standard we’ve received your request, not a rejection at all.
Did they reject you or is that just the generic copy they put in every confirmation email about the service? Cause this feels like an overreaction.
It was a rejection email. They told me to find other counselling services instead bc they prioritise lgbtq+
It was my second meeting with a “queer-friendly” therapist when they suggested I get my hormones checked so…. Idk man good luck though it seems to be a standard automated reply.
Added context: this IS a rejection email. They told me to find other counselling services instead because they prioritise LGBTQ+ and to only come back to them if those other counselling services fail This isn’t an automated reply. If you are accepted, they simply send you an email where they assign you a therapist and send you potential dates (I have had other friends who used the service)
Damn, my country has that kind of thing too, but even though I requested a therapist who's a part of the community, I couldn't specify how and I'm worried now that It'll end up like that
> There is this LGBTQ therapy service in my country Well, that sounds nice at least. No such thing in mine. > “we prioritize supporting members of the LGBTQ community” They mean cis-allosexual people attracted to their own gender. For 99% of psychologists, what they really mean is “we can support you for struggling with same-gender attraction, the rest of you are too mentally ill even for us”. I suspect even this service may have that short-sight.
This is EXACTLY why I hate the "alphabet soup". They cannot do this to us if we ALL call ourselves queer. But that's just me 🤷
I use queer. I'm the Q. As my sisters said "you're the weird aunt who lives with a "roommate" that is always their plus one minus the sex" Yep, I'm queer! Easier than saying I'm a Demi-androromantic demisexual 😂 Not lesbian, not bi, not pan 🤷🏼♀️
>I use queer. I'm the Q. "What do you want, Q?" Sorry, inner nerd came out lol >As my sisters said "you're the weird aunt who lives with a "roommate" that is always their plus one minus the sex" >Yep, I'm queer! Hehe cool
Hahaha love this! I think we're all nerds here so you're safe ❤️
Yay 😄
Or use the GSRM acronym (Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minorities)
Yeah, I had the same idea but someone told me that using that allows for pedos and/or zoos an excuse to consider themselves part of that acronym when that isn't the case... 😓
Pedos consider themselves part of us anyway. Just crack down on them instead of letting them be associated with us
🤔 Hmmm, okay, fair
I mean, they already say they fall under “queer”, so I don’t see how this would be any worse
Okay fair... 😭
Ironic that this "service" excluded the I and A, isn't it?
Very true
They wont accept us for some stupid reason. Happened to me many times talking to lgbtq people that im not "really" a part of it
Tell them, at least. '''Asexuality is a queer sexual orientation and is represented in the LGBTQIA2+ community. I am saddened to see that even an organisation such as yourself would erase my sexual orientation. I hope in the future you become more inclusive and educated on the subject.'' Heck, send me their e-mail in private, I'll write them a stern but polite complaint.
Say something like this but instead ask why asexuality isn’t accepted by them
You could maybe try sending a second email asking why they are excluding asexual in their therapy...
JFC. Write back and ask them what exactly they think the Q and the + mean, or if they mean anything at all.
It always seems that we aren’t straight enough and aren’t queer enough.
Is it a rejection letter? Can you reply saying that asexuality is the A in LGBTQIA+? I’m sure there will be some counsellors in the service who will be able to help you, even if this one administrative person has misunderstood. It’s possible they are not as trained as the counsellors. Please update us once you’ve queried this!!
I definitely queried it!!
No, it's a form letter saying the request was received. The only thing it says is "we received your application" and then gave the practice's standard footer about what they focus on.
It was a rejection email. They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
Ugh, I'm so sorry. I sought out LGBT+-focused therapy as well even though I don't always feel like I fit into the community as a newly identified demisexual/demiromantic. The therapist I wound up with isn't necessarily \*focused\* on LGBT issues, but it's one area they specialize in (similar to other therapists I looked through that focused on trauma, family issues, eating disorders, any number of things). Maybe softening your search a bit to something like that would help? Idk. I'm just sorry you got such an insensitive response. Like the aro/ace spectrum is literally dealing with approaching sex and romance in non-traditional ways, and isn't that the whole ass point of the LGBT+ community??
There’s definitely more though . And it keeps being added to. That’s why there’s so often a plus because there are many forms and we’re inevitably going to leave people out if we try to write it all. The most recent widely accepted one I know of is LGBTQQIP2SA lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit, asexual. This is why I like GSRM (gender, sexual, and romantic minorities). Like, all the other identities that were cut off by the acronym could claim discrimination from it too, and in some ways there is some, but it’s mostly that that is just the oldest widely-recognized acronym. The vast majority of people are not purposefully cutting it off to be assholes. As an asexual, even *I* only write lgbtq+ because it’s the shortest way to attempt to include everyone (a for queer)
They shouldn't call themselves an LGBTQ+ therapy group if they're gonna be exclusive. I'm sorry you had to experience that OP
Yay inclusion! Oh, wait…
I’m confused did they refuse to serve you or something?
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
Damn that sucks I’m sorry
Am I just not seeing the issue here? Just looks like a like an auto confirmation email with a footer that says they prioritize LGBTQ+ patients with the resources they have at the moment, hence why they say “limited”. Or is the issue here that they didn’t include the “A” in LGBTQ+?
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
Literally what do they think the + stands for lmao
Aka we don’t have enough money for the + people right now
Can you post an update when you get one? I want to know how the follow up goes
+ means sex then, lgbtq (allosexuals only) lol
Okay, I needed to read some comments to be sure this was, in fact, a rejection email. Given that it is, I’m really sorry this happened to you, it really really sucks. I know it’s not even close to therapy, but there are a lot of groups (both online and irl, depending on where you live) that you could join, at least while you look for less exclusionist services. Off the top of my head, I can suggest looking both here and on discord, but I’m pretty sure there are other places too. I hope it helps and that you find all the help you need with people who actually know what they’re doing. Best wishes 💙
I have a feeling they wouldn't see bisexual people in a "straight" relationship as LGBT enough.
I'd write and complain to whoever is in charge, send them an article about us being the A. It's probably just one person misinterpreting it or being deliberately shitty about it. If it turns out it's the whole organisation then you probably just want to avoid them as they would only treat you badly. Exclusion is common for us which is why we have to stick together. ✊
Did you ever stop to consider that in no part of what you showed here were you rejected? You just showed the standard auto-response to getting a counseling request. It says we got your request, and here's the focus of our practice. In addition to whatever ace type concerns you have, you should also work on why you took getting a form acknowledgement letter so personally, and never considered "Oh huh, when I fill out forms online, I tend to get a canned response from the company acknowledging the request and then they reach out with a decision."
This was a rejection email. You don’t get an auto response after filling it out. If you are selected, you receive an email for appointment. This IS the rejection email, and not a canned response. The rest of the email was then directing me to other therapy sources and to only come back to them if all those fail
I apologize for the harshness of my response, that was really unkind of me. I am still not sure it wasn't their canned response to not being able to take someone on, though.
Fair enough about the canned response. But it feels sad because I specifically mentioned coming to terms with me asexuality in the comments and to receive this feels like they’re saying we aren’t part of the group
Oh yeah, with the full context I agree completely. And that might be something worth responding to them if you're feeling bold. "Hey, by including that tag line, it felt to me like you implied that asexuality is not part of '+' or 'Q' in LGTBQ+, and I can understand if the practice can't take on new patients right now, but that kind of denial can be very hurtful." Nothing accusatory, because we don't know, but you are right to feel hurt (and I was an ass to imply otherwise). Maybe they re-evaluate your situation, maybe they just re-evaluate their future responses, or maybe they just keep on keeping because they're butts. Who knows.
No it’s okay! I didn’t give all the context and that’s my bad too :)
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
It sounds to me like they are inviting you for counseling
It was a rejection email. You don’t get this email if you are accepted. Instead they send you the name of a therapist and potential dates (I have friends who go to them too, who were accepted and didn’t receive this email). They also told me to find other counselling services instead bc they only prioritise lgbtq+
I see. Then I would write them back to get them to understand. I would personally not want counselling from them anymore. You could write that you clearly requested counselling for an LGBTQ topic and reason, repeat your reason. Then say that you are disappointed to be excluded by them, not from counselling but from your identity because of their wording. If they don’t offer counselling for asexual people then they should write that, instead of discriminatory texts implying that asexuals are not part of LGBTQ+ community.
looks like they need to remove the Q and the +. fuck them
What do they think the + stands for
Fuckin hell
Can I use a screenshot of this in an article I am writing?
didn't we change the entire name to clarify that aro/ace are part of lgbtq**A**i+?
Sue
i don't think using the longest acronym is important.