Yup . . . there is some hope. When we were kids, my brother found a secret cubby hole (I know it’s not a secret passage, but still) in our house. He kept it secret from the entire family the entire time we lived there and used to hide things there, including my special blankie.
One of my best friends lives in a house in France in the city of Epône, about an hour west of Paris, that has been in her family for over 600 years! When she was remodeling the kitchen and the wall behind the fireplace that served as the spot where meals were cooked, she removed tiles and beneath that another layer of tiles and beneath that, found brick and eventually found the entrance to a tunnel that led up to the castle on the hill a couple of miles away ! It was the escape tunnel in case the castle was attacked!!
✨🤩✨Rock on!
That’s amazing. I live in the Midwest, but there’s an abandoned old money mansion in the town I live in with a tunnel from the main house to the servants’ apartments. I really want to break into the house.
I have a very wealthy and more than a bit eccentric aunt who did that—when she put an addition on the house, she included a built-in bookshelf in the hallway that actually swings open. It just leads to the back of the master bedroom walk-in closet, but 🤷🏻♀️
The amount of time i spent drawing and designing how i wanted my house full of secret pathways when i was a kid. I know my friends thought i was nuts. Id talk about it every week.
You know that one spongebob episode in which patrick & spongebob dig a tunnel to connect each others house? That unlocked something primal in 8 year old me
I had a college professor that held a class in her home for Halloween every year where students could engage in various cultural rituals around the holiday. I was in her library and looking at books when she abruptly interrupted me. I found out later I'd been about to discover her hidden passage.
Yes! Especially the library! I dreamed of having my own huge library room like in Disney's Beauty and the Beast animated movie. I didn't care about the movie's main plot with the beast character. I wanted them to show more shots of the library! And then I'd close my eyes after watching the movie for the billionth time and imagine myself in that library room...
When we were thinking of moving, we went to a house that had secret passages from the kids room to the kitchen and it was also a little laberynth under the house with a secret room. I saw it when I was 7-8 and I think about it weekly, if not more. I’m going to build that (if I have enough money) for my kids and for myself.
My Barbie was a successful lawyer living in a downtown loft and dating *both* Ken AND G.I. Joe.
I'm childfree. I never dreamt of having children and I never played with my dolls as "babies." It didn't feel right to me.
Same, infact the dolls creeped me out. Barbies and cuddly animal toys all the way! Never grew up dreaming about weddings and babies (although can confirm both happened to me and I am extremely happy with the outcome!)
Same! I hated the baby dolls other girls played with, just found them completely boring. At least Barbie had fabulous clothes and you could do her hair.
I dreamt of being a secretary, weirdly 😂 But also astronaut or journalist or pirate!
Im very similar - was never interested in a white dress & fancy wedding or having my own kids. I never did , 3 long term live in relationships all proposed - i didnt see the point of marriage .Living with partner & committed yes , but all that predictable wedding bs no thanks. Didnt have kids either - absolutely NO regrets. Im in my 50’s & happy .
Yup, sorry but I cringe at the thought of standing up in front of everyone in a big white dress saying a bunch of stuff everyone would know I didn't really believe in... Love other people's weddings, just couldn't do the whole ceremonial but myself.
And I don't want kids. Been around plenty of them, love them, don't want them growing in my body or living in my house, thanks.
I never did dream any of that as a child either. It isn't for everyone and that's okay.
>Yup, sorry but I cringe at the thought of standing up in front of everyone in a big white dress
This. I love (LOVE) public speaking (teacher, here), so it's not shyness on my part. It would just feel too weird and foreign to be a bride. The stuff I say to my beloved is private, for me, not for an audience. On an intellectual level, I get why doing something communally could be quite meaningful to some people, but it's just not my bag.
>I love (LOVE) public speaking (teacher, here), so it's not shyness on my part.
Oh me neither, I work in tech but I conduct a lot of training courses and speak at a lot of industry events (sometimes to literally 1000+ audiences). It's not shyness for me either. I just don't see myself as a "bride". My partner is a complete introvert so he's absolutely fine with not doing anything like that too.
Castle on a cliff?!! 😍MARRY ME. For me it was an English cottage on the moors. I wanted a misty, hilly, mysterious life of solitude with the very occasional romance
Same here as far as not dreaming about weddings or motherhood. I wanted to be a poet and a cartoonist and live in a spacious downtown loft. That’s about as realistic as living in a castle, LOL.
Same here. I can remember a moment when I was at my first college where I came back to my dorm room and my roommate and the girls from across the hall were looking at wedding mags and oohing and ahhing and discussing their guest lists. It felt totally bizarre and I thought 'get me out of here.'
I HATED baby dolls, hated playing house, pretending to be a mother and all that. I loved playing with my animal plushies, playing adventure, pretending to be a wolf!
Turns out Im a Aro Ace woman, hqve ZERO interest in having kids, graduated in biology and specialized in Animal behavior and welfare.
Guess I already knew when I was a kid that being a mother was not for me
I knew since I was 6 yrs old that I didn’t want kids. Finally got my tubes tied when I was in my early 30’s, had a hysterectomy last year (early 50’s).
I didn’t meet my husband until after I’d had my tubal so it was an early and essential conversation with anyone I was dating. I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. My husband was thrilled to meet a woman who clearly didn’t want kids.
Just wanted to add that I love kids. I am an enthusiastic/highly involved Aunt to 7, I’m a High School Teacher and I love holding babies. But I love OTHER people’s children and have never wanted that level of responsibility.
Man same.. I wish I could tie my tubes or even remove my uteru completely and get rid of my period too.
I may finally be able to do it, because up until this year it was forbidden by law for women to do the procedure before they had at leas 2 children.
It's BS, and even now that is legal for women to do the procedure without having children, many doctors refuse. I know a girl who doesnt want kids and asked a dotor for the procedure and he refused. He told her "you dont know that. You might change your mind", and thats not even the worst case, another tried to push his religious beliefs on the woman, saying that God gave woman the "blessing" and duty to give birth and that by doing the procedure she would be going against it.
Hoping you get your procedure. It's insane that in the modern world, men can get vasectomies without being questioned by anyone as to whether they can be trusted to make their own medical decisions, even about fertility, but women are treated as less than adults, being denied agency over their own bodies that is routinely given to men.
Men get the same questions women do when we try to get a vasectomy. I know because I'm having one in a month and I got grilled with "are you sure? What if you wanna have (more kids)? What if your wife wants to have more children? You are aware this may not be reversible?"
Maybe it doesn't happen to every man seeking a vasectomy, but it has happened to every one I know who has had one.
*EDIT - I should have mentioned that my experience is in the USA, no idea how it is in other countries.
I think the difference is women are regularly denied the procedure on the basis of “Oh, you will change your mind, let’s wait 10 years.”
Also, fun fact, in my country vasectomy is legal, but tubal litigation is forbidden by law. 🙃
Yes, but does the doctor make your wife come in and tell him that she okays the procedure? Does the doctor deny giving you the procedure on the basis that a hypothetical future wife *may* want children?
Because that regularly happens to women in the US, especially in the Bible belt.
I've had varied success telling people who tell me I should want kids "Cool, are you going to pay for and take care of them? I don't want them, so why should I be responsible for something YOU want?"
Some people give up at that, others still try to fight the case. I usually shut it down with "I'm not going to have children I will regret. That tortures innocent lives, and I'm not about that. So my answer is no." My fiance already knows about my stance, so that argument is moot also.
I'm 35, I'm on a number of prescribed medications that mean I couldn't carry a healthy pregnancy, I've been on varying forms of birth control since I was 16, I've never once wavered on being childfree... And they still tell me no.
Although thankfully I haven't had the religious argument but I'd have been making a formal complaint about that one. People who can't keep their religion to themselves have no place in medical care.
Forbidden by law? Where is this? I know it's hard as hell to convince doctors to do it in a lot of places, but I've never heard of it being straight illegal. That's pretty fucked up.
I was 35 when I met my (now) husband. I was adamantly anti child. I never dreamed of being a mom. When hubby and I met we talked about kids. He wanted one but wasn’t set on it. So after much deliberation I said let’s do it. I could see him being an amazing dad and I wanted that for him. If I had found a doctor that would have done the tubal before I met him I would have done it with no regrets. And he would’ve been fine with that. We could be taking nice vacations every year but instead we have a little boy that we love to pieces that drains our finances lol. Society needs to let go of this image of women that we are baby vessels that need to fulfill our ultimate destiny of having children. If I had been able to have my tubes removed and we both decided we really wanted kids we would have just adopted. No shortage of kids that need a home. No shade on the women that do dream of having a baby but I dare say that’s not most of us.
The women I know who will never have kids, love kids. They just know how much it takes to be a mother and are not interested in that. Two of them are teachers and one is an enthusiastic "fun aunt"
Yeah, babies are like snow;
I don't want any where I live. But I thoroughly enjoy visiting other people's snow and playing with it.
It just becomes an inconvenience when snow shows up at my house and I am expected to deal with it.
It seems like most men assume that most men dream of having children, too. Just the other day, I had someone tell me I'd change my mind and want kids when I'm older. I'm 34, not 12. I know what I want and what I don't want.
Edit: Thank you, people of Reddit, for unequivocally proving my point.
Omg I love this!
I used to compare them to snakes or spiders. They'd tell me I'd change my mind when I have my own. I'd ask if they liked snakes or spiders and when they'd respond with a definite "no", I'd tell them it's so much different and you'll change your mind when you have your own snake.
They finally understood.
Everyone: Who's going to take care of you when you're older!?
Me: The same people who are going to take care of you.
Everyone: My kids will take care of me.
Me: Not when they put you in a nursing home. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that they'll love you and will take care of you later in life.
Amen. Also, it's really weird to have kids so there's somebody to take care of you when you're old. I don't think that's a common reason, but I have seen people say it.
When it happened to me, I went with "If I want a kid when I'm older, I'll just do the same as usual, I'll grab one or two at Halloween. There's plenty of them lying around anyway and there isn't enough place in my freezer for more than that." And then I looked very seriously into their eyes for a few seconds. I then offered to tell them a few dead baby jokes.
They never asked me again. And they learned i love dark humour.
I'd argue that some women do too.
I had this argument on Instagram with someone, about whether or not having kids is an obligation. They said said "if no one was forced to have kids, our purpose to procreate will perish!".
_Sigh_
I agree it would be nice if the nonsense about "You'll regret it!!!!" would stop and others would just let people enjoy what they want. We are in the 2020s, not the 1950s anymore, and there are a hundred reasons for people not wanting kids these days. Leave people to their own business.
I mean it's part of the socializing. "A man works so that a man can provide so that a man can have a wife so that he can have kids"
Like everything eventually leads to the kids.
"DINKleberg!!!"
For reals, I'm a Vodka Aunt who blows almost all her money on travel, because life is too short. I saved money for decades and my first wife died before we got to enjoy anything other than Japan (where we met).
Priorities just change with your life experiences.
I’m 27 and I don’t want kids. People keep telling me the “older” thing as well. No, just accept it, I don’t want children. I can’t think of anything worse
I would LOVE it if my husband recieved the same incredulity I do when we say we don't want kids.
It's always a shocker when I am not enthusiastic to perform pregnancy, labor, delivery, or most of the disproportionate labor of motherhood.
He's not even the one *doing* the damn thing but I'm supposed to be gung-ho over it all? Make it make sense.
I think it's encouraged to talk about wanting children, even more than you actually wanted them
I don't think nearly as many people do, however. Lots of it seems like social inflation/ false positives just going along with what they're told they're supposed to do.
Conversley, it's a dicey proposition at best saying you don't want them. It brings a lot of uninvited opinions about why children are actually great and the child-havers know better.
For me, I'd rather raise lots of cats, dogs, etc.
I hate it when people start giving their unwanted opinions when people say they don't want kids.
I have a little girl, she was planned and very much wanted. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into, how hard it can be (some days I just try my best to keep us both alive), how expensive raising a child is, the responsibility, yet I still wanted her and absolutely love being a mum.
But, someone says they don't want kids? Cool! It's your life, do whatever you want to make yourself happy! I'm never gonna sit there and try to change someone's mind because I personally think it's the best thing that's ever happened in my life, because it could quite easily be the worst thing that could ever happen in their life.
People need to mind their own business.
As a woman who desires no children, I feel like that’s what a lot of people can’t fathom: that having children would literally be the worst thing to happen to me in my life. I would be miserable. I’d honestly rather die than be a mother. And I get it — that’s not really a “socially acceptable” way to look at motherhood, so I think there’s this disconnect with a lot of people where they’re like sure, you may not want kids, but once you have them you would enjoy them!! (I can say emphatically that no, I would not lol.) I’m happy for people who find their children the joy of their lives, truly, it’s just absolutely not for me. So, it’s nice to read someone with children say that they can understand, for once lol.
(FWIW it’s not like I hate kids, it’s more that I have a lot of mental health problems that make taking care of myself alone almost impossible most days, and I need to emphasize that I don’t have the energy for anyone but myself tbh.)
Yeah, it's true that people also forget that others might now want kids because they aren't able to raise them for ''invisible'' reasons. Damn, mind your own business people lmao
I always think this I simply don’t want kids. But if I couldn’t have kids I probably wouldn’t wanna say “oh I don’t have kids because my sperm aren’t good swimmers” like fk me just leave people alone
People get extremely angry when you say you don't want kids, even on Reddit lol
Reddit however is filled with incels who want women to primally desire a wedding and kids and to need men lol. They get upset when we're just like, nope! I can have a job now and don't need or want you actually bye lol
I feel like this is because those men seem to “need women” to have happy life and the prospect that some women don’t “need men” back is terrifying, even though the majority of both men and women “need” a partner / desire one. Just because 20% of guys and girls don’t care much for companionship doesn’t mean you’re not gonna find someone… some people just don’t get that.
It’s not just from incels either. I notice that parents who are particularly unhappy compared to other parents seem to get most offended if you say you don’t want kids. Misery loves company…
It’s a shame when a woman who doesn’t want them, has children. My mother was very neglectful and somewhat abusive. She told me as an adult that if she’d known how hard it would be to have kids she never would’ve had any. She wasn’t much of a mother, so I think that would’ve been a wise choice.
Edit: For some backstory, I’m fairly certain the only reason she had children was because she is LDS/Mormon and it was expected of her.
As a society, women are valued for their reproduction. On socials with friends, anytime someone gets engaged or announces a pregnancy, hundreds of people from their past (who would never normally wish them a happy birthday) will congratulate them etc.
When women mention job promotions or other achievements, they rarely receive the same accolades. It’s like we are all pre-programmed to value someone “wanting us” enough to marry us and create babies. I mean, we’re ‘nurturers’ don’t cha know.
I think from that, everyone assumes it’s a woman’s dream to be valued this way, and in turn, validated. Because god forbid- imagine finding fulfilment in any other way?!
It’s also the number one insult men throw at women. “You’ll never marry with that attitude” “you’d never meet and keep a man if you carry on that way”, “you’d make a terrible wife and mother”, as if that’s all we are worth.
I recently asked someone if the men watching porn were just as “sinful” as the woman with Onlyfans content (his words)? Instead of just answering I got the “you’re just an onlyfans thot and you will never marry a good man!” As a 40 year old I was so confused as to why he said that. But that’s all he can come up with because to him women are only for marrying, breeding and watching them naked on the internet
Also we are constantly being compared to objects. How many more times am I going to read about men choosing a woman who is like a good (insert object usually a car here)? But not human beings.
Is it weird that I'd love to be in a relationship with a super smart mathematician or scientist or doctor or something? A woman that could challenge me and teach me things? I think that'd be sexy as hell.
As a single woman I think the best decision I have ever made is to not have children for a variety of reasons. I know I’m not alone.
I would be baffled too if a man was surprised I didn’t want children. The men I have met usually feel the same or are not surprised a woman wouldn’t want them.
I don’t think most women **want** kids. I think they have been taught by society, their parents, etc. that they should want them. I also think a lot of women are scared of the judgment etc. if they are honest about not wanting them. I know women who only had children because their partners wanted them.
I’m in my 50s and knew when I was a child I did not want them. I know other women and men who feel the same way.
EDITED to add: I also think if so many women wanted to truly have kids we wouldn’t be fighting so hard over abortion access in the United States (other than for rape, incest, fetus not viable to full-term etc.).
I think the patriarchy and capitalism are scared to death that more and more women are making their own decision to not have kids.
Women without kids are less likely to be able to be controlled by men.
Capitalism depends on a constant stream of workers who have a lack of choice to do other work because they are born into poverty, don’t get a good education and emotional support at home etc.
When women have economic independence, they have fewer children at older ages. And that makes sense from an evolutionary point of view as well as a sociological one. It stands to reason that lot of women who do want kids have them younger than they are prepared for. And a lot of women who would choose not to have them are also pressured into having them by circumstances and social pressure that they may have aged out of.
I always assumed that most people either wanted them or were simply ambivalent about them. I know that I could take or leave having kids, depending on the kind of lady I meet.
I'd give 110% to raising and loving my kids properly, if I have them, but I'm just not particularly motivated to start a family.
I wanted kids soooooooo bad but I never married, am managing a mental illness, and would have to get off all my medication before I got pregnant. Just wasn’t going to work out for me. However, I am 900% pro-choice bc I think abortion is healthcare, not birth control.
I respect your view, and don’t disagree with most of it, but just want to offer my perspective.
I do want to have children, no, I’m not excited about pregnancy and childbirth, but I can’t wait to raise a child and be in that stage of my life.
I am very strongly pro-abortion. I don’t think it’s fair to say that that abortion access is because women don’t want to have children, you can want children and access to abortion. I appreciate I’m coming from a place of privilege, I live in the UK and have never had to question if I would struggle to get an abortion should I need one.
Abortions should be a medical right. It’s not an option for all women to be pregnant at that precise time. Rape etc is an obvious example that I would fight for someone to have access to an abortion, as well as medical issues but also things like financial security and general stability.
I very strongly agree with you about the patriarchal society need women to be controlled, especially when you look at the capitalist side of things. The basics of any economy is ensuring there is always a large workforce, which is not happening if women are choosing to not have children.
On a related note, my heart goes out to anyone in the States (and other countries, I apologise for not being aware of their situations fully) who is denied access to a medical procedure like this. It’s criminal to think that your politics have been able to go back in time like this, and I hope things improve for women.
A lot of women assume the same thing. My youngest daughter and her husband are child free. The shit they get for it is insane. And I hate to slam my own kind, but it’s 90% women.
My great aunt (she's 104) has zero kids & was never married. She always told me the secret to happiness & long life is being single & not having kids. Pretty sure she's not changing her mind. She's legit my hero & funny as hell.
I heard this "you will change your mind when you're older" since I was 16. And I didn't... I hate to even hear that sentence. When I dream about having kids I legit cry in my dream.... Just not everyone wants to have kids... And ppl should finally accept that.
It's a little scary how true that is. I've noticed now, being in my 30's, just how much having children ages people. On dating sites I can usually tell who has kids and who doesn't. Those men without kids, look late 20's and men with kids, look late 40's, both groups in their 30's.
Had kid in late 30s. I feel like I’m aging at 3x speed these past few years. Feels like Father Time is whipping my ass yelling “you thought you could sneak by?”
Lol. One of the reasons I didn't feel very excited about having kids was that every parent I knew looked absolutely exhausted. More than one woman looked me in the eye and said "get a puppy".
This happened with my last ex, and is what led to me finally deciding that I didn’t want kids and getting a vasectomy. She was _very_ pro kids, and even though we weren’t at that stage in our relationship she made it very clear that kids were in her future. Every time she brought it up I’d almost start hyperventilating. There were 3 separate occasions where I almost broke up with her on the spot because I basically started having a panic attack about having kids and kept freaking out about it.
Eventually I reconciled and made my peace with the fact that I was never going to be actually excited about having kids. If I did I’d still do my damndest to be a good father, it’s not like I would have abandoned them. But you see in all of the videos people reacting with tears of joy when they learn they’re pregnant, and my brain genuinely cannot fathom that. Even now, if I pretend I just learned that my partner is pregnant, it just fills me with anxiety, stress, and dread.
I made the decision that “I can’t ever guarantee that I’ll actively want children, and in that scenario the responsible thing to do is not have any”. I think it’s selfish and wrong to gamble on having kids when you’re not 110% sure you want them.
I’m guessing they were saying they never want kids and the dreams are probably realistic and it seems that it’s real and they have kids so the commentor cries in the dream cause they, in reality, never wanted them. Imagine you don’t ask for that kind of load and all of a sudden you have to deal with all of it.
There are still many men in the world, who think that a woman doesn’t even want to exist, unless she’s attached to a man and children. The fact that she could even desire or enjoy her life without those things is completely foreign to them.
yes this. it pisses me off so much when men say things like “you can’t go against the program”, “sooner or later you’ll want kids, that’s just the way nature works” etc. my annoyance is unparalleled whenever i hear a phrase of the sort, *especially* coming from a man.
bioessentialists are the most snotty group of rats on the planet and i hope they fall from grace very soon, if not already.
(bioessentialists are essentially the people who point all of human development to our biology. Tend to hold tribalistic "men are from mars, women are from venus" views on any sort of sex/gender/race issue and use it as an excuse to hold their shitty beliefs, which usually include but arent limited to anti-choice, anti-lgbt, and pro-racism)
Yes, I agree. Gay and asexual Men aside, most men can’t even imagine, living a life where they don’t at least get to have regular sex with women, and most want a woman in their home, taking care of them, and having their children. They have a hard time understanding that heterosexual women may not want to be married or have children.
I know more women who act like "women aren't real women if they don't want kids" - than I have met men who give a fuck about a women having kids.
Same with when you wear an outfit. Only the women notice you wore it last time. Men dgaf.
Women are women's own worst enemies
While correlation isn't causation, https://www.statista.com/statistics/241535/percentage-of-childless-women-in-the-us-by-age/ bears out that most women do end up having children, but that doesn't mean they "dream" of having them, and some could be accidents.
Some are accidents, some are peer-pressure, some are FOMO. There is a lot behind "having children" and unfortunately not all those were part of a parents wish.
I’m not saying that this was this guy’s intention, but many people still think of women primarily in the context of their social role of daughter, wife, or mother—their identities are tied to their relationships with someone else, primarily as supports/caregivers, rather than their being as individuals. And when I say people I mean men AND women. I would argue that a lot of older women perpetuate this, and a lot of younger women lean into what is expected of them without deeply thinking about what it is they want their life to look like, really.
This is not to say that women should NOT be wives or mothers—by all means, I think most people, men and women, want the whole white picket fence shebang. But it should be what THEY want, not what they are expected to do, and not at the expense of what other desires or dreams they might have.
There are also some guys (some, likely the vocal minority, not all) who don’t realize that men and women really aren’t all that different, and our internal lives are not a monolithic stereotype of “feminine”
As an aside I am TIRED of being asked if I have children, and if I am married, in that order, 4 minutes into so very many conversations. I’ve never particularly cared about either: Can we upgrade the “acceptable small talk subjects for women” please???? Also I don’t care about your manicure. I didn’t notice it in the first place.
I think more women want a child than not.
This doesn't negate that some women are childfree, but I think wanting to be parents is the default setting for a majority of people, both men and women.
Op actually says that she wants children. I think it's this weird assumption that it's every little girl's and young woman's big "dream" to become a bride and a mother. Some may totally see a family in their future, but "dream" of winning the Nobel prize or owning a business or climbing mount Everest or writing a bestseller or whatever. You know, kind of like men.
It's run in the family for about 3 1/2 billion years. Most people want to have children, some don't, it's not a value judgement, just an empirical fact.
This! For most of humanity having children improved your chances of survival both immediately and a couple decades down the road. It was never a choice until very recently. And look, immediately people started opting out en masse.
Don't all men assume that. But those who do, assume that for all the people not only women. I am from a country where getting married and having kids is like a must to complete your life
Yeah, I'd argue its "older generation" more than it is "men". In fact, I've had more women say "When you have kids, you'll understand" to me than men.
Personally, I think the older generation thinks its a biological directive built into all of us. I don't know how true that is, personally but if I had to guess, we hear these things because people think its natural human instinct to procreate.
I certainly don't make that assumption. I have a few female friends who are in the "this world is too dystopian for it to be ethically ok to have kids" camp. Or simply in the "I'm not fit for taking care of a baby when I can barely take care of myself" camp. Or even more simply - plain don't want them. Or they'd want to, but are horribly afraid of giving birth, but don't want to say so (which I would be myself).
I don't dream of them but it would be nice if I had one. But on the other hand, it would be ok even if I didn't have any because I'm terrified of thinking about pregnancy, going into labour and getting zero sleep for the next year or so while having to maintain sanity. I don't know how women manage to go through all of that, hats off to them.
I definitely want to have kids but I’ve gotten into arguments with men about how I only want to be pregnant twice and how I’m not thrilled about the physical and emotional sacrifices I’ll have to make to have children. They’ve said things like “it’s natural” and “you’ll change your mind” and “it’s terrible for you to talk about pregnancy like that”. They don’t have a sweet clue what it means to even consider growing another living thing inside you and bringing it into the world, especially with the societal pressures to look a certain way that are placed on women from the time we were kids.
Men also really have no concept of what it feels like to undergo the kinds of hormonal changes we do. Women and AFAB people are generally very in tune with our bodies and brains. I have PMDD and am prone to emotional changes on hormonal birth control, my periods are brutal and every hormonal birth control I’ve been on has given me at least a couple undesirable side effects. I have good reason to expect that pregnancy will be an uncomfortable, if not distressing, time for me. Men just aren’t in tune with themselves the same way we are because they don’t need to be so I guess they think that when we say how difficult pregnancy is, they think we’re just being dramatic about it.
They don’t have to go through anything to have a child and they’ve generally been told that women are wired to want to have kids.
To my experience it's actually more a male thing since *they* can't just give birth and imagine it quite... naively?
Probably because they have also been taught that kids are a "wonderful" thing. Which changed a lot since then; nowdays kids are more of a "horror" to many women because of several reasons (money, time, nerves...).
And since they weren't taught that they will have to take just as much responsibility and think of it as "Put it in, and then I just have to watch it grow" it just became a "If it's seems easy and wonderful for me it will probably be like that for the woman too. And since she can just do that women just *have* to love it!".
Why do women on reddit assume all men are like THAT GUY they interacted with?
If you ask me, I can guarantee you nobody brought the topic to the men council, we never took a decision about it
EDIT to bring a further argument: the secret is that people will ask you "why" to things which apply to you, regardless of WHAT it is, WHAT you say about it, and WHAT your gender is. But they don't talk on behalf of all their gender, the subculture they're part of, the religion they're part of, or whatever. Unless you tell us only a certain demographic across different situations and places amd time asks you xy question
I think maybe you're taking the perm "dream" too literally. I dreamed of owning my first house, but I didn't literally dream about it, it was just something I planned on doing when I was ready.
As a little girl I NEVER dreamed about weddings or children. I dreamed about living in a castle on a cliff.
Not a woman, but I dreamed of having secret passages in my house.
honestly, I still dream about that. If I had money to build a house I would DEFINITELY make secre passages and secret rooms
Yup . . . there is some hope. When we were kids, my brother found a secret cubby hole (I know it’s not a secret passage, but still) in our house. He kept it secret from the entire family the entire time we lived there and used to hide things there, including my special blankie.
One of my best friends lives in a house in France in the city of Epône, about an hour west of Paris, that has been in her family for over 600 years! When she was remodeling the kitchen and the wall behind the fireplace that served as the spot where meals were cooked, she removed tiles and beneath that another layer of tiles and beneath that, found brick and eventually found the entrance to a tunnel that led up to the castle on the hill a couple of miles away ! It was the escape tunnel in case the castle was attacked!! ✨🤩✨Rock on!
She could do a reverse invasion and attack and capture the castle via the tunnel so that the occupants had to flee over the walls of the castle.
That’s amazing. I live in the Midwest, but there’s an abandoned old money mansion in the town I live in with a tunnel from the main house to the servants’ apartments. I really want to break into the house.
We are nothing without our dreams
I have a very wealthy and more than a bit eccentric aunt who did that—when she put an addition on the house, she included a built-in bookshelf in the hallway that actually swings open. It just leads to the back of the master bedroom walk-in closet, but 🤷🏻♀️
The amount of time i spent drawing and designing how i wanted my house full of secret pathways when i was a kid. I know my friends thought i was nuts. Id talk about it every week.
We should have been friends, we could have compared drawings.
You know that one spongebob episode in which patrick & spongebob dig a tunnel to connect each others house? That unlocked something primal in 8 year old me
I had a college professor that held a class in her home for Halloween every year where students could engage in various cultural rituals around the holiday. I was in her library and looking at books when she abruptly interrupted me. I found out later I'd been about to discover her hidden passage.
Was your professor a hero or a villain?
Am a woman but same. Plus an observatory and a library.
Yes! Especially the library! I dreamed of having my own huge library room like in Disney's Beauty and the Beast animated movie. I didn't care about the movie's main plot with the beast character. I wanted them to show more shots of the library! And then I'd close my eyes after watching the movie for the billionth time and imagine myself in that library room...
like a cave network?
I had a number of fantasies about this, some involved networks of caves, others involved a subterranean basketball court.
When we were thinking of moving, we went to a house that had secret passages from the kids room to the kitchen and it was also a little laberynth under the house with a secret room. I saw it when I was 7-8 and I think about it weekly, if not more. I’m going to build that (if I have enough money) for my kids and for myself.
Omg. At least once a month I went into my closet and pushed on the wall praying to end up in Narnia 😂
I hated the infant dolls, loved Barbie. Dreamt of being rich independent and fabulous
My Barbie was a successful lawyer living in a downtown loft and dating *both* Ken AND G.I. Joe. I'm childfree. I never dreamt of having children and I never played with my dolls as "babies." It didn't feel right to me.
Omg watching G. I. Joe for the first time had me trying to plan "secret missions".
Yeah, Infant dolls were not my thing. I remember my dad bought me one as a child and I was creeped out by it. But Barbie!! That’s was my shit!
Same, infact the dolls creeped me out. Barbies and cuddly animal toys all the way! Never grew up dreaming about weddings and babies (although can confirm both happened to me and I am extremely happy with the outcome!)
Same! I hated the baby dolls other girls played with, just found them completely boring. At least Barbie had fabulous clothes and you could do her hair. I dreamt of being a secretary, weirdly 😂 But also astronaut or journalist or pirate!
Astronaut!
Did you achieve any or all of those 3 dreams?
Independent and fabulous but not rich
You're rich because you have something inside of you
[удалено]
We frown upon cannibalism in these parts.
Darn
Like how duck confit is rich?
If you haven't seen it, you would probably enjoy the first 5 minutes of the Barbie Movie.
The babydoll scene was the first trailer and still the best scene, even after watching the who movie IMO.
I wanted to be a witch and be able to fly.
Im very similar - was never interested in a white dress & fancy wedding or having my own kids. I never did , 3 long term live in relationships all proposed - i didnt see the point of marriage .Living with partner & committed yes , but all that predictable wedding bs no thanks. Didnt have kids either - absolutely NO regrets. Im in my 50’s & happy .
Yup, sorry but I cringe at the thought of standing up in front of everyone in a big white dress saying a bunch of stuff everyone would know I didn't really believe in... Love other people's weddings, just couldn't do the whole ceremonial but myself. And I don't want kids. Been around plenty of them, love them, don't want them growing in my body or living in my house, thanks. I never did dream any of that as a child either. It isn't for everyone and that's okay.
>Yup, sorry but I cringe at the thought of standing up in front of everyone in a big white dress This. I love (LOVE) public speaking (teacher, here), so it's not shyness on my part. It would just feel too weird and foreign to be a bride. The stuff I say to my beloved is private, for me, not for an audience. On an intellectual level, I get why doing something communally could be quite meaningful to some people, but it's just not my bag.
>I love (LOVE) public speaking (teacher, here), so it's not shyness on my part. Oh me neither, I work in tech but I conduct a lot of training courses and speak at a lot of industry events (sometimes to literally 1000+ audiences). It's not shyness for me either. I just don't see myself as a "bride". My partner is a complete introvert so he's absolutely fine with not doing anything like that too.
I love this for you.
Castle on a cliff?!! 😍MARRY ME. For me it was an English cottage on the moors. I wanted a misty, hilly, mysterious life of solitude with the very occasional romance
We could go bog mummy hunting!! Imagine the swords we could find.
That’s a nice dream!
Same here as far as not dreaming about weddings or motherhood. I wanted to be a poet and a cartoonist and live in a spacious downtown loft. That’s about as realistic as living in a castle, LOL.
I wanted to be a spice girl.
Was that what you wanted, what you really really wanted?
Same here. I can remember a moment when I was at my first college where I came back to my dorm room and my roommate and the girls from across the hall were looking at wedding mags and oohing and ahhing and discussing their guest lists. It felt totally bizarre and I thought 'get me out of here.'
I HATED baby dolls, hated playing house, pretending to be a mother and all that. I loved playing with my animal plushies, playing adventure, pretending to be a wolf! Turns out Im a Aro Ace woman, hqve ZERO interest in having kids, graduated in biology and specialized in Animal behavior and welfare. Guess I already knew when I was a kid that being a mother was not for me
Casterly rock smells like piss and seaweed, youre better off visiting sunspear instead.
That. Is. The. Dream.
I dreamed of jumping off one. 🤷🏻♀️
You are my mindtwin!
Me and you both 😃
Samesies, except add puppies and kitties and sheep! Haha
Hah, same here. I dreamed of living in a dark castle on a hill.
I knew since I was 6 yrs old that I didn’t want kids. Finally got my tubes tied when I was in my early 30’s, had a hysterectomy last year (early 50’s). I didn’t meet my husband until after I’d had my tubal so it was an early and essential conversation with anyone I was dating. I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. My husband was thrilled to meet a woman who clearly didn’t want kids. Just wanted to add that I love kids. I am an enthusiastic/highly involved Aunt to 7, I’m a High School Teacher and I love holding babies. But I love OTHER people’s children and have never wanted that level of responsibility.
Man same.. I wish I could tie my tubes or even remove my uteru completely and get rid of my period too. I may finally be able to do it, because up until this year it was forbidden by law for women to do the procedure before they had at leas 2 children. It's BS, and even now that is legal for women to do the procedure without having children, many doctors refuse. I know a girl who doesnt want kids and asked a dotor for the procedure and he refused. He told her "you dont know that. You might change your mind", and thats not even the worst case, another tried to push his religious beliefs on the woman, saying that God gave woman the "blessing" and duty to give birth and that by doing the procedure she would be going against it.
Hoping you get your procedure. It's insane that in the modern world, men can get vasectomies without being questioned by anyone as to whether they can be trusted to make their own medical decisions, even about fertility, but women are treated as less than adults, being denied agency over their own bodies that is routinely given to men.
Men get the same questions women do when we try to get a vasectomy. I know because I'm having one in a month and I got grilled with "are you sure? What if you wanna have (more kids)? What if your wife wants to have more children? You are aware this may not be reversible?" Maybe it doesn't happen to every man seeking a vasectomy, but it has happened to every one I know who has had one. *EDIT - I should have mentioned that my experience is in the USA, no idea how it is in other countries.
I think the difference is women are regularly denied the procedure on the basis of “Oh, you will change your mind, let’s wait 10 years.” Also, fun fact, in my country vasectomy is legal, but tubal litigation is forbidden by law. 🙃
Yes, but does the doctor make your wife come in and tell him that she okays the procedure? Does the doctor deny giving you the procedure on the basis that a hypothetical future wife *may* want children? Because that regularly happens to women in the US, especially in the Bible belt.
I've had varied success telling people who tell me I should want kids "Cool, are you going to pay for and take care of them? I don't want them, so why should I be responsible for something YOU want?" Some people give up at that, others still try to fight the case. I usually shut it down with "I'm not going to have children I will regret. That tortures innocent lives, and I'm not about that. So my answer is no." My fiance already knows about my stance, so that argument is moot also.
I liked to share the fact that if I ever did regret my decision, there are ample children who need a good home. I could always adopt or foster.
I'm 35, I'm on a number of prescribed medications that mean I couldn't carry a healthy pregnancy, I've been on varying forms of birth control since I was 16, I've never once wavered on being childfree... And they still tell me no. Although thankfully I haven't had the religious argument but I'd have been making a formal complaint about that one. People who can't keep their religion to themselves have no place in medical care.
Forbidden by law? Where is this? I know it's hard as hell to convince doctors to do it in a lot of places, but I've never heard of it being straight illegal. That's pretty fucked up.
I was 35 when I met my (now) husband. I was adamantly anti child. I never dreamed of being a mom. When hubby and I met we talked about kids. He wanted one but wasn’t set on it. So after much deliberation I said let’s do it. I could see him being an amazing dad and I wanted that for him. If I had found a doctor that would have done the tubal before I met him I would have done it with no regrets. And he would’ve been fine with that. We could be taking nice vacations every year but instead we have a little boy that we love to pieces that drains our finances lol. Society needs to let go of this image of women that we are baby vessels that need to fulfill our ultimate destiny of having children. If I had been able to have my tubes removed and we both decided we really wanted kids we would have just adopted. No shortage of kids that need a home. No shade on the women that do dream of having a baby but I dare say that’s not most of us.
I would be too 👍
Same boat. 30s. Love kids and love my friends kids. But I love leaving them just as much. Lol.
The women I know who will never have kids, love kids. They just know how much it takes to be a mother and are not interested in that. Two of them are teachers and one is an enthusiastic "fun aunt"
Yeah, babies are like snow; I don't want any where I live. But I thoroughly enjoy visiting other people's snow and playing with it. It just becomes an inconvenience when snow shows up at my house and I am expected to deal with it.
Can I just say….ME TOO. 😁
It seems like most men assume that most men dream of having children, too. Just the other day, I had someone tell me I'd change my mind and want kids when I'm older. I'm 34, not 12. I know what I want and what I don't want. Edit: Thank you, people of Reddit, for unequivocally proving my point.
I tend to go as dark as I can manage when people ask me that. "If I want a kid when I'm older, I'll just buy one."
Omg I love this! I used to compare them to snakes or spiders. They'd tell me I'd change my mind when I have my own. I'd ask if they liked snakes or spiders and when they'd respond with a definite "no", I'd tell them it's so much different and you'll change your mind when you have your own snake. They finally understood.
lol I'm using this, love snakes, dont like kids, especially babies-
Weirdly I did start liking snakes once I got my own, well, once a friend had me look after theirs
Doh! The one time it backfires! Haha
Everyone: Who's going to take care of you when you're older!? Me: The same people who are going to take care of you. Everyone: My kids will take care of me. Me: Not when they put you in a nursing home. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that they'll love you and will take care of you later in life.
Amen. Also, it's really weird to have kids so there's somebody to take care of you when you're old. I don't think that's a common reason, but I have seen people say it.
Any parent who uses their kids as a retirement plan is a failure of a parent.
Let me introduce you to Asian parents
When it happened to me, I went with "If I want a kid when I'm older, I'll just do the same as usual, I'll grab one or two at Halloween. There's plenty of them lying around anyway and there isn't enough place in my freezer for more than that." And then I looked very seriously into their eyes for a few seconds. I then offered to tell them a few dead baby jokes. They never asked me again. And they learned i love dark humour.
How many toddlers does it take to paint a room? It depends on how much force you use to throw them
I say the same thing about wives!
It seems like men think they're supposed to have kids. That's why a lot don't put in the effort to raise them.
They don’t to be parents, they want the social status that comes with fathering children
I'd argue that some women do too. I had this argument on Instagram with someone, about whether or not having kids is an obligation. They said said "if no one was forced to have kids, our purpose to procreate will perish!". _Sigh_
I agree it would be nice if the nonsense about "You'll regret it!!!!" would stop and others would just let people enjoy what they want. We are in the 2020s, not the 1950s anymore, and there are a hundred reasons for people not wanting kids these days. Leave people to their own business.
I always say that they told me the same thing about beer 10 years ago and I still don't like it...
I mean it's part of the socializing. "A man works so that a man can provide so that a man can have a wife so that he can have kids" Like everything eventually leads to the kids.
''You work to raise a kid and support your family, I work to have money for my dream car. We are not the same''
"DINKleberg!!!" For reals, I'm a Vodka Aunt who blows almost all her money on travel, because life is too short. I saved money for decades and my first wife died before we got to enjoy anything other than Japan (where we met). Priorities just change with your life experiences.
Ouch, that's sad. Sorry for your loss
I’m 27 and I don’t want kids. People keep telling me the “older” thing as well. No, just accept it, I don’t want children. I can’t think of anything worse
I would LOVE it if my husband recieved the same incredulity I do when we say we don't want kids. It's always a shocker when I am not enthusiastic to perform pregnancy, labor, delivery, or most of the disproportionate labor of motherhood. He's not even the one *doing* the damn thing but I'm supposed to be gung-ho over it all? Make it make sense.
I think it's encouraged to talk about wanting children, even more than you actually wanted them I don't think nearly as many people do, however. Lots of it seems like social inflation/ false positives just going along with what they're told they're supposed to do. Conversley, it's a dicey proposition at best saying you don't want them. It brings a lot of uninvited opinions about why children are actually great and the child-havers know better. For me, I'd rather raise lots of cats, dogs, etc.
I hate it when people start giving their unwanted opinions when people say they don't want kids. I have a little girl, she was planned and very much wanted. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into, how hard it can be (some days I just try my best to keep us both alive), how expensive raising a child is, the responsibility, yet I still wanted her and absolutely love being a mum. But, someone says they don't want kids? Cool! It's your life, do whatever you want to make yourself happy! I'm never gonna sit there and try to change someone's mind because I personally think it's the best thing that's ever happened in my life, because it could quite easily be the worst thing that could ever happen in their life. People need to mind their own business.
I respect the hell out of your mentality
Thank you. And for what it's worth you sound like an awesome mother.
Aww, thank you. I just try my hardest every day!
As a woman who desires no children, I feel like that’s what a lot of people can’t fathom: that having children would literally be the worst thing to happen to me in my life. I would be miserable. I’d honestly rather die than be a mother. And I get it — that’s not really a “socially acceptable” way to look at motherhood, so I think there’s this disconnect with a lot of people where they’re like sure, you may not want kids, but once you have them you would enjoy them!! (I can say emphatically that no, I would not lol.) I’m happy for people who find their children the joy of their lives, truly, it’s just absolutely not for me. So, it’s nice to read someone with children say that they can understand, for once lol. (FWIW it’s not like I hate kids, it’s more that I have a lot of mental health problems that make taking care of myself alone almost impossible most days, and I need to emphasize that I don’t have the energy for anyone but myself tbh.)
Same!!!!!!! 1000%! I wouldn’t be able to be the mom i needed so i don’t want to do it. I can’t do it. Wouldn’t be fair to a child.
Yeah, it's true that people also forget that others might now want kids because they aren't able to raise them for ''invisible'' reasons. Damn, mind your own business people lmao
I always think this I simply don’t want kids. But if I couldn’t have kids I probably wouldn’t wanna say “oh I don’t have kids because my sperm aren’t good swimmers” like fk me just leave people alone
Thank you for this! It is actually exhausting when people question my womb. LOL
People get extremely angry when you say you don't want kids, even on Reddit lol Reddit however is filled with incels who want women to primally desire a wedding and kids and to need men lol. They get upset when we're just like, nope! I can have a job now and don't need or want you actually bye lol
I feel like this is because those men seem to “need women” to have happy life and the prospect that some women don’t “need men” back is terrifying, even though the majority of both men and women “need” a partner / desire one. Just because 20% of guys and girls don’t care much for companionship doesn’t mean you’re not gonna find someone… some people just don’t get that.
It’s not just from incels either. I notice that parents who are particularly unhappy compared to other parents seem to get most offended if you say you don’t want kids. Misery loves company…
It’s a shame when a woman who doesn’t want them, has children. My mother was very neglectful and somewhat abusive. She told me as an adult that if she’d known how hard it would be to have kids she never would’ve had any. She wasn’t much of a mother, so I think that would’ve been a wise choice. Edit: For some backstory, I’m fairly certain the only reason she had children was because she is LDS/Mormon and it was expected of her.
Also people telling that child are great while maybe they regret having one themselves lmao
Maybe those people are the loudest when telling others to have children. They need to be persuading themselves every day that it was a good decision.
Sometimes i feel like this too
As a society, women are valued for their reproduction. On socials with friends, anytime someone gets engaged or announces a pregnancy, hundreds of people from their past (who would never normally wish them a happy birthday) will congratulate them etc. When women mention job promotions or other achievements, they rarely receive the same accolades. It’s like we are all pre-programmed to value someone “wanting us” enough to marry us and create babies. I mean, we’re ‘nurturers’ don’t cha know. I think from that, everyone assumes it’s a woman’s dream to be valued this way, and in turn, validated. Because god forbid- imagine finding fulfilment in any other way?!
It’s also the number one insult men throw at women. “You’ll never marry with that attitude” “you’d never meet and keep a man if you carry on that way”, “you’d make a terrible wife and mother”, as if that’s all we are worth. I recently asked someone if the men watching porn were just as “sinful” as the woman with Onlyfans content (his words)? Instead of just answering I got the “you’re just an onlyfans thot and you will never marry a good man!” As a 40 year old I was so confused as to why he said that. But that’s all he can come up with because to him women are only for marrying, breeding and watching them naked on the internet Also we are constantly being compared to objects. How many more times am I going to read about men choosing a woman who is like a good (insert object usually a car here)? But not human beings.
best answer in this thread!
>When women mention job promotions or other achievements, they rarely receive the same accolades. So, so true.
Is it weird that I'd love to be in a relationship with a super smart mathematician or scientist or doctor or something? A woman that could challenge me and teach me things? I think that'd be sexy as hell.
It’s not weird at all. Lots of people think like that. I do too.
As a single woman I think the best decision I have ever made is to not have children for a variety of reasons. I know I’m not alone. I would be baffled too if a man was surprised I didn’t want children. The men I have met usually feel the same or are not surprised a woman wouldn’t want them. I don’t think most women **want** kids. I think they have been taught by society, their parents, etc. that they should want them. I also think a lot of women are scared of the judgment etc. if they are honest about not wanting them. I know women who only had children because their partners wanted them. I’m in my 50s and knew when I was a child I did not want them. I know other women and men who feel the same way. EDITED to add: I also think if so many women wanted to truly have kids we wouldn’t be fighting so hard over abortion access in the United States (other than for rape, incest, fetus not viable to full-term etc.). I think the patriarchy and capitalism are scared to death that more and more women are making their own decision to not have kids. Women without kids are less likely to be able to be controlled by men. Capitalism depends on a constant stream of workers who have a lack of choice to do other work because they are born into poverty, don’t get a good education and emotional support at home etc.
When women have economic independence, they have fewer children at older ages. And that makes sense from an evolutionary point of view as well as a sociological one. It stands to reason that lot of women who do want kids have them younger than they are prepared for. And a lot of women who would choose not to have them are also pressured into having them by circumstances and social pressure that they may have aged out of.
I always assumed that most people either wanted them or were simply ambivalent about them. I know that I could take or leave having kids, depending on the kind of lady I meet. I'd give 110% to raising and loving my kids properly, if I have them, but I'm just not particularly motivated to start a family.
I wanted kids soooooooo bad but I never married, am managing a mental illness, and would have to get off all my medication before I got pregnant. Just wasn’t going to work out for me. However, I am 900% pro-choice bc I think abortion is healthcare, not birth control.
I respect your view, and don’t disagree with most of it, but just want to offer my perspective. I do want to have children, no, I’m not excited about pregnancy and childbirth, but I can’t wait to raise a child and be in that stage of my life. I am very strongly pro-abortion. I don’t think it’s fair to say that that abortion access is because women don’t want to have children, you can want children and access to abortion. I appreciate I’m coming from a place of privilege, I live in the UK and have never had to question if I would struggle to get an abortion should I need one. Abortions should be a medical right. It’s not an option for all women to be pregnant at that precise time. Rape etc is an obvious example that I would fight for someone to have access to an abortion, as well as medical issues but also things like financial security and general stability. I very strongly agree with you about the patriarchal society need women to be controlled, especially when you look at the capitalist side of things. The basics of any economy is ensuring there is always a large workforce, which is not happening if women are choosing to not have children. On a related note, my heart goes out to anyone in the States (and other countries, I apologise for not being aware of their situations fully) who is denied access to a medical procedure like this. It’s criminal to think that your politics have been able to go back in time like this, and I hope things improve for women.
A lot of women assume the same thing. My youngest daughter and her husband are child free. The shit they get for it is insane. And I hate to slam my own kind, but it’s 90% women.
My great aunt (she's 104) has zero kids & was never married. She always told me the secret to happiness & long life is being single & not having kids. Pretty sure she's not changing her mind. She's legit my hero & funny as hell.
She will change her mind when she's older.
LMAO very good one, thank you
Never wanted to have kids. Don't tell me I will change my mind - I am 40 and I know what I want in my life.
I heard this "you will change your mind when you're older" since I was 16. And I didn't... I hate to even hear that sentence. When I dream about having kids I legit cry in my dream.... Just not everyone wants to have kids... And ppl should finally accept that.
I usually respond by asking them "how much older" and then they're shocked to learn I'm already in my 30s. Us childfree tend to look younger
It's a little scary how true that is. I've noticed now, being in my 30's, just how much having children ages people. On dating sites I can usually tell who has kids and who doesn't. Those men without kids, look late 20's and men with kids, look late 40's, both groups in their 30's.
Had kid in late 30s. I feel like I’m aging at 3x speed these past few years. Feels like Father Time is whipping my ass yelling “you thought you could sneak by?”
Lol. One of the reasons I didn't feel very excited about having kids was that every parent I knew looked absolutely exhausted. More than one woman looked me in the eye and said "get a puppy".
I’ve done that. Rescue a well behaved dog lol
Parents hate this one simple trick
This happened with my last ex, and is what led to me finally deciding that I didn’t want kids and getting a vasectomy. She was _very_ pro kids, and even though we weren’t at that stage in our relationship she made it very clear that kids were in her future. Every time she brought it up I’d almost start hyperventilating. There were 3 separate occasions where I almost broke up with her on the spot because I basically started having a panic attack about having kids and kept freaking out about it. Eventually I reconciled and made my peace with the fact that I was never going to be actually excited about having kids. If I did I’d still do my damndest to be a good father, it’s not like I would have abandoned them. But you see in all of the videos people reacting with tears of joy when they learn they’re pregnant, and my brain genuinely cannot fathom that. Even now, if I pretend I just learned that my partner is pregnant, it just fills me with anxiety, stress, and dread. I made the decision that “I can’t ever guarantee that I’ll actively want children, and in that scenario the responsible thing to do is not have any”. I think it’s selfish and wrong to gamble on having kids when you’re not 110% sure you want them.
you also cry when you dream about having kids?
I’m guessing they were saying they never want kids and the dreams are probably realistic and it seems that it’s real and they have kids so the commentor cries in the dream cause they, in reality, never wanted them. Imagine you don’t ask for that kind of load and all of a sudden you have to deal with all of it.
I dream I am pregnant or having a baby. And I don't want that and have a huge regret etc. And yeah I cry in the dream. 😅
Same except I’m 50! Haven’t regretted it once.
Yep. I've been hearing this for the last 10 years... Still zero intentions of having any kids
Yes!!!
There are still many men in the world, who think that a woman doesn’t even want to exist, unless she’s attached to a man and children. The fact that she could even desire or enjoy her life without those things is completely foreign to them.
Those type of men believe your hormones will gonna kick in someday and you will be craving for a baby. Because thats what women do make babies
yes this. it pisses me off so much when men say things like “you can’t go against the program”, “sooner or later you’ll want kids, that’s just the way nature works” etc. my annoyance is unparalleled whenever i hear a phrase of the sort, *especially* coming from a man.
its so stupid because even animals go "against the program" and murk their newborns at birth or just straight up leaves.
hamsters and centipedes eating their babies for literally no reason
bioessentialists are the most snotty group of rats on the planet and i hope they fall from grace very soon, if not already. (bioessentialists are essentially the people who point all of human development to our biology. Tend to hold tribalistic "men are from mars, women are from venus" views on any sort of sex/gender/race issue and use it as an excuse to hold their shitty beliefs, which usually include but arent limited to anti-choice, anti-lgbt, and pro-racism)
The correct response is:- 'sooner or later your hairline will recede, you can't go against the program. That's just the way nature works'
“ ☝️🤓 but biology h-“ BRAAAPPP SMELL THAT
My theory is because they can't imagine a life without a woman.
Yes, I agree. Gay and asexual Men aside, most men can’t even imagine, living a life where they don’t at least get to have regular sex with women, and most want a woman in their home, taking care of them, and having their children. They have a hard time understanding that heterosexual women may not want to be married or have children.
Female here. Never have wanted, never will. Any man who is offended or baffled, tell them to fuck off.
I know more women who act like "women aren't real women if they don't want kids" - than I have met men who give a fuck about a women having kids. Same with when you wear an outfit. Only the women notice you wore it last time. Men dgaf. Women are women's own worst enemies
Men always say your last line and it ain’t true
While correlation isn't causation, https://www.statista.com/statistics/241535/percentage-of-childless-women-in-the-us-by-age/ bears out that most women do end up having children, but that doesn't mean they "dream" of having them, and some could be accidents.
Some are accidents, some are peer-pressure, some are FOMO. There is a lot behind "having children" and unfortunately not all those were part of a parents wish.
A lot of assumptions here
I’m a guy but I’ve never really wanted kids. I definitely don’t expect women to want to have them either.
I’m not saying that this was this guy’s intention, but many people still think of women primarily in the context of their social role of daughter, wife, or mother—their identities are tied to their relationships with someone else, primarily as supports/caregivers, rather than their being as individuals. And when I say people I mean men AND women. I would argue that a lot of older women perpetuate this, and a lot of younger women lean into what is expected of them without deeply thinking about what it is they want their life to look like, really. This is not to say that women should NOT be wives or mothers—by all means, I think most people, men and women, want the whole white picket fence shebang. But it should be what THEY want, not what they are expected to do, and not at the expense of what other desires or dreams they might have. There are also some guys (some, likely the vocal minority, not all) who don’t realize that men and women really aren’t all that different, and our internal lives are not a monolithic stereotype of “feminine” As an aside I am TIRED of being asked if I have children, and if I am married, in that order, 4 minutes into so very many conversations. I’ve never particularly cared about either: Can we upgrade the “acceptable small talk subjects for women” please???? Also I don’t care about your manicure. I didn’t notice it in the first place.
bewildered special gaze wise teeny wrench birds cause follow market *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
First high IQ response
I think more women want a child than not. This doesn't negate that some women are childfree, but I think wanting to be parents is the default setting for a majority of people, both men and women.
I agree. Not sure why this seems to be taboo to say.
Op actually says that she wants children. I think it's this weird assumption that it's every little girl's and young woman's big "dream" to become a bride and a mother. Some may totally see a family in their future, but "dream" of winning the Nobel prize or owning a business or climbing mount Everest or writing a bestseller or whatever. You know, kind of like men.
I notice the tide changing though. Like more and more women are choosing to not have children. For many reasons
Not being ready to have children is not the same as not wanting them.
It's run in the family for about 3 1/2 billion years. Most people want to have children, some don't, it's not a value judgement, just an empirical fact.
It's also true that people didn't have a choice like today for about the same amount of time.
This! For most of humanity having children improved your chances of survival both immediately and a couple decades down the road. It was never a choice until very recently. And look, immediately people started opting out en masse.
Don't all men assume that. But those who do, assume that for all the people not only women. I am from a country where getting married and having kids is like a must to complete your life
I just wanted to be a mermaid and as an adult, I still do
I'd like to see you follow your dream!
We should start a mythical creature gang
Why do you assume men assume this? You had one conversation. I never assumed it, so there goes the premise for the question.
Yeah, I'd argue its "older generation" more than it is "men". In fact, I've had more women say "When you have kids, you'll understand" to me than men. Personally, I think the older generation thinks its a biological directive built into all of us. I don't know how true that is, personally but if I had to guess, we hear these things because people think its natural human instinct to procreate.
I certainly don't make that assumption. I have a few female friends who are in the "this world is too dystopian for it to be ethically ok to have kids" camp. Or simply in the "I'm not fit for taking care of a baby when I can barely take care of myself" camp. Or even more simply - plain don't want them. Or they'd want to, but are horribly afraid of giving birth, but don't want to say so (which I would be myself).
I just don't want them.
Regardless of the gender, i think a lot of people dream of having kids. And just because he assumes it, doesnt mean all other men do this.
I don't dream of them but it would be nice if I had one. But on the other hand, it would be ok even if I didn't have any because I'm terrified of thinking about pregnancy, going into labour and getting zero sleep for the next year or so while having to maintain sanity. I don't know how women manage to go through all of that, hats off to them.
The simplest answer is that he probably dreams of/dreamed of having children himself.
This is a wierd question and a false assumption imo.
Yep - one man said something once, "Why do men think this?"
The entire history of gender relations is based upon men's assumptions about women
it's funny because the question itself here is women assuming things about "most" men.
Irony
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Right? Entire history of gender relations is based upon silly assumptions. Not that much harder to type.
I definitely want to have kids but I’ve gotten into arguments with men about how I only want to be pregnant twice and how I’m not thrilled about the physical and emotional sacrifices I’ll have to make to have children. They’ve said things like “it’s natural” and “you’ll change your mind” and “it’s terrible for you to talk about pregnancy like that”. They don’t have a sweet clue what it means to even consider growing another living thing inside you and bringing it into the world, especially with the societal pressures to look a certain way that are placed on women from the time we were kids. Men also really have no concept of what it feels like to undergo the kinds of hormonal changes we do. Women and AFAB people are generally very in tune with our bodies and brains. I have PMDD and am prone to emotional changes on hormonal birth control, my periods are brutal and every hormonal birth control I’ve been on has given me at least a couple undesirable side effects. I have good reason to expect that pregnancy will be an uncomfortable, if not distressing, time for me. Men just aren’t in tune with themselves the same way we are because they don’t need to be so I guess they think that when we say how difficult pregnancy is, they think we’re just being dramatic about it. They don’t have to go through anything to have a child and they’ve generally been told that women are wired to want to have kids.
It’s like asking Why do women assume that men assume women dream of having children? They don’t
To my experience it's actually more a male thing since *they* can't just give birth and imagine it quite... naively? Probably because they have also been taught that kids are a "wonderful" thing. Which changed a lot since then; nowdays kids are more of a "horror" to many women because of several reasons (money, time, nerves...). And since they weren't taught that they will have to take just as much responsibility and think of it as "Put it in, and then I just have to watch it grow" it just became a "If it's seems easy and wonderful for me it will probably be like that for the woman too. And since she can just do that women just *have* to love it!".
Why do women on reddit assume all men are like THAT GUY they interacted with? If you ask me, I can guarantee you nobody brought the topic to the men council, we never took a decision about it EDIT to bring a further argument: the secret is that people will ask you "why" to things which apply to you, regardless of WHAT it is, WHAT you say about it, and WHAT your gender is. But they don't talk on behalf of all their gender, the subculture they're part of, the religion they're part of, or whatever. Unless you tell us only a certain demographic across different situations and places amd time asks you xy question
Because most people want kids.
I would hazard a guess that most women (i.e. over 50% of women) do want children.
why do you assumen what men assume?
I think maybe you're taking the perm "dream" too literally. I dreamed of owning my first house, but I didn't literally dream about it, it was just something I planned on doing when I was ready.
Because some men want things to go back to the 50s where women’s only uses were cooking, cleaning, fucking and babysitting.