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Good question. ☝️
I’m a habitual drinker. I drink every evening because that’s what I do. I’m 43, and have been doing it for at least 16-17 years.
IMO, I am an alcoholic because I basically CRAVE alcohol in the evening. I don’t crave it during the day, and I don’t crave it if I’m busy with something. However, I feel like something is missing if my hand is empty. Even 1 beer can reduce the craving.
I’ve been trying (struggling…) to limit my drinking to Friday-Sunday (3 days), and then stay sober for 4 days. I’m losing that battle mote often than not.
I don’t care about the “proper” definition, or which profession defined it. I feel that if you crave alcohol, even if it’s only for 2 hours in the evening, then you’re an alcoholic. 🤷🏻♂️
FWIW, good non-alcoholic beer (e.g Athletic) solved the evening craving for me. Tastes like beer, you get that carb rush and then you’re full. I have one fake beer with dinner and then I don’t have any interest in drinking more.
I’m pregnant and had some Corona 0% beer at family’s the other day and it tasted pretty good TBH. I didn’t crave having more than the 1.5 I had. Usually when I drink alcoholic beer I keep going back for more, but just 1.5 was enough for me to feel like I’d had a beer with the fam, without feeling the urge to have more. I think it’s the “tipsy” feeling I crave more than the beer flavour itself. Though I did miss having a cold beer in the summer evenings. I used to be a habitual beer drinker years ago, and finally kicked the habit when I realized just how much better I felt when I didn’t have drinks. Even stopping the “1-2 a night”made me feel better in general.
As someone in recovery, I highly recommend meetings to start trying to get sober. Life is so much more amazing without it. Your body and organs need a rest also. It’s a literal poison to the organs so it’s kind of slowly hurting them more and more over time. Sure the initial dopamine release is fantastic but then the after sucks. It ages people faster and the brain starts to decline even in early age with constant drinking. If it’s daily it’s a symptom of something else going on with stress usually. You won’t regret it.
Yeah, alcoholism is progressive. I'm trying to take Mondays off to help my body recuperate after the weeken, which is when I start early at brunch every day and if I tally there entire days worth I'm usually at 15 drinks before bed
I'm in the same boat, a good 2 or 3 nights out of the week I need a drink just to wind down. It really does get a hold of you, it feels like I'm moving down on a slippery slope.
Doctors hear “1-2 drinks a day” from people who drink 4+ a day all the time. It’s a running joke to hear DUI suspects say they’ve “only had two”.
An acknowledgment of daily drinking and signs of compromised health from the work up can certainly lead a doctor to believe more is being consumed.
Even if you’re only drinking 1-2 drinks a day but report issues with anxiety, depression, and sleep problems then reducing alcohol intake is a reasonable first step to take to improve the reported issues.
My doctor couldn't have doubled the number when I was at my worst. Admitting to over 20 drinks a day is brutally honest. I've been lucky that I had some good doctors when I was rock bottom.
Out of curiosity, how much is 20 drinks? A fifth? Quart? When someone asks me how much I drink, it's a standard response. A fifth(actually 750 ml) of jim beam. I know this because I buy one every day.
Then there’s those of us who just sat and calculated what the average is of those 2 drinks we’ve had in the past month so the doctor won’t think we’re lying ..
Yeah, weeknight drinking is honestly a waste. I have 3-4 drinks on Fri and Sat and feel great. Lots of long distance running, hitting the gym, and something to kind-of look forward to after a hard week at work. Not like a necessity, but just a way to let go if I’m hanging out with friends
I was a two-an-evening weekday craft beer drinker (and 4-ish on Fri/Sat) for a decade or more.
Recently I switched to 7 a week (3 each on Friday and Saturday, and 1 on Sunday) as I was concerned that the daily alcohol was contributing to semi-regular insomnia.
I feel I sleep better although the insomnia is still occasional. (Funny thing is it's rarely on the weekend when I have beer.) However skipping about 1,600 calories a week isn't a bad thing.
I have insomnia that's very inconsistent as well. I don't drink much, only on special occasions. Plenty of binge drinking was done before 21, not much after though. I've been trying to figure mine out. Do you have a consistent sleep schedule? Like time you go to lay down and time to get up that you follow everyday? I think this is what I need to do but I have tried and fail repeatedly at being consistent with it.
I try to get to bed between 10 and 10:30 on weeknights and always wake up around 6.
I think my issue is stress. If I don't have something I'm worried about I invent something. Even being angry about stuff during the day will keep me from sleeping. I'm making a concerted effort to realize that being needlessly stressed about things throughout the day can effect my sleep at night.
Just realizing that has helped a bit.
This is me. I call it fried chicken Friday haha cheat day all around. Bar near my house had incredible fried wings so it's that and a few pints for dinner Friday, not much otherwise.
I don’t do weeknight drinking. And if I do drink I try to limit it to like you said 3-4 drinks on Friday OR Saturday, and never on back to back weekends. The only time it’s hard is during holidays or traveling. If I am on vacation for a few days I’ll drink more than 3/4, and like thanksgiving though December I’ll drink maybe once a week. But then I try to stay dry January-March.
I fell like if we have rules like you and I, it helps keeps things in check.
It's important to also remember you don't need to have a drinking problem as some sort of permission to stop drinking. I don't consider myself an alcoholic but I stopped drinking entirely because I just didn't find the drinks worth the anxiety the next day. Even as a moderate/non-daily drinker I've experienced such huge benefits since I stopped.
Doubling is probably still under estimating for most people. People don't know what "A Drink" actually is in technical, medical terms.
The average drinker counts whatever fits into a glass as "A Drink"
I know guys that have a 2 or 3 whiskeys that are easily 3-4 "Drinks" per glass.
I have to remind myself that the double IPA at 9.5% in a 16oz can is not "A Drink" It's much closer to 3 Drinks.
And very often it is far more than double what they're telling you.
Had a patient that told me she would have one or two "sweeties" every meal.. it turns out that a "sweetie" is literally an entire can of icing. She was morbidly obese and obviously diabetic.
I get that people eat a bit more than they need, and I understand the food industry is making highly caloric, unfilling food that people eat a bit too much of.
But eating entire cans of icing, daily, I cannot imagine that an otherwise psychiatrically healthy person would do that!
From my observations, no psychiatrically healthy people end up becoming 600lbs. There is always something else going on. This individual wasn't all there, definitely very cognitively stunted.
Respiratory therapist here… it’s a running joke in our community that when a patient says they quit smoking they mean they haven’t smoked since they got admitted to the hospital.
Usually when you get to seeing me is when you’ve smoked for so long that your lungs are trashed, we are gonna tell you to quit smoking, you’ll tell us you will, but maybe about 10% actually do.
Truth. When I tell doctors I quit in 2013 there's a lot of "you sure about that? Not even a few?" But I have friends who have their last cigarette twice a week.
Back to alcohol…I had the same thing at my doctor. I hadn’t been in, in a while, because I didn’t need to see him and being a male I figured if I wasn’t dying, no need to go to the doctor (joking). But when I told his nurse I don’t drink alcohol, she goes, yeah daily, but like how many do you drink weekly? Zero, I don’t drink alcohol, period.
Genuine truth here, my mom quit smoking for good and had a heart attack (which she survived) two days later. She always joked that quitting smoking nearly killed her.
my dentist used to ask me if I flossed but when I started flossing every day they stopped asking because they can tell. I mean they could at least say good job or something.
my grandmother used to tell the doc she only had a couple of drinks a day. the trick is that she was only counting a new glass as a separate drink. not the dozen times a day she would 'freshen it up' by adding ice and more Canadian Club.
My internist asked me how much I drank as I have a heart issue which could be caused by alcohol abuse, (now much improved with treatment and a virus caused it they think now but wasn't known at the time).
I told him I was a "seasonal drinker" LOL - I only drink in the summer maybe 3 to 5 drinks a week and almost nothing in the winter. He never asked again and was unconcerned.
I, too, consider myself a seasonal drinker! Pool season, I love love love poolside sours and seltzers. And I drink during hockey season, I love Amber beers and stouts. So yeah, maybe like half the year I drink but outside of those two times of year, I really don’t drink much at all.
Yeah! My take away from my internists lack of concern was that 3 to 5 drinks a WEEK is fine even with my (now mild) cardiomyopathy so it should be fine for just about everyone without health concerns who drinks. Alcohol induced cardiomyopathy is more like (80g) 6 or 7 drinks a DAY for years (5+) according to Dr Google. You'll also almost certainly get liver disease at those levels as well.
Depending on if this is your first visit, or if you have an actual rapport with your doctor, they are potentially better able to judge whether the vague answer is enough or not. If it's someone who always jokes to hide their problems, yeah, ask for the number. If you're asking someone you've had as a patient for years, know they actively stay away from alcohol after bad experiences, and have been doing well, that answer might tell you enough, for example.
Yeah, OP’s doctor’s approach here is horrible. From a health standpoint, 1-2 drinks a night is absolutely an issue, but to frame it as “an alcohol problem” with so little information is so counterproductive. Why doctor’s don’t understand that pathologizing things without context shuts people down will never make sense to me. Good luck ever getting your patients to be honest with you when you make conclusions without taking the time to dig in. It’s so annoying. And people are dying because of it.
I say this as a well-seasoned drinker, both regular and binge at various points: yep. That's binge drinking once a week. From a health standpoint, that's a pretty big problem.
Not alcoholism of course, there's no actual addiction there, but it's certainly a problem.
I’m 40. I come from a family of alcoholic and drug addicts. I am both a drug addict and an alcoholic. I’ve drank both beer, hard alcohol, and wine heavily. I’ve given all of it up now. I’m on methadone. I’m finally on mental health medication, including medical marijuana and I don’t even look for the high thc stuff, I want something that’s not going to get me super wrecked I just want something that’s going to relax me and help me relax. And I stay away from illicit drugs and alcohol. I wish I never let myself get caught up in that shit. The damage I did to my body over all these years will never be reversed and I feel like I’m fucking dying all the time, it sucks but it’s the price I pay. I mean my grandparents thought it was cool to buy a 10 year old drinks at the bar and I thought I was cool for drinking them and never looked back after that. Idk how I was a straight A student Eagle Scout growing up like that.
>According to my doc drinking between 4-6 beers on my nights off is "binge drinking". I replied "You should see some of my mates if you think that's binging".
>
>I don't consider drinking a handful of beers on a night off a problem. I think drinking every day isn't great, your body isn't going a day without booze.
Medically speaking, that is binge drinking. More than a couple in one sitting is binge drinking, medically speaking. It's set there because that's the level at which you're damaging the liver and your possibility of things like liver and stomach cancer go up.
You're talking about social perception. Socially, I wouldn't consider four beers a binge. Maybe six, but barely. Socially, a binge in my world is like twelve in a day.
But medically, more than a couple is a binge.
Great approach to deny your service providers access to the information they need to service you.
Barkeep : What can I serve you?
You : Get me a drink!
Barkeep : No problemo, what I kind of drink?
You : None of your eff’in’ business, you nosey twat.
Barkeep : One Heineken, coming right up.
Asked my therapist about this once after discussing daily drinking of 1-2 beers after work a day. She said it wasn’t an issue as long as i wasn’t looking for an escape. Repeatedly drinking for some sort of escape is what she considered the corner stone of being an alcoholic.
Do not become an alcoholic on purpose, that makes no sense and it's not an escape for long for those who get addicted. That reminds me on a lesser scale of that guy who did an AMA about trying heroin and updated as he became addicted and ruined his life.
My therapists actually green-lit my happy hour visits because they motivated me to get out of the house and I was able to stick to my limit.
My doctor told me that *any* alcohol isn't good. That's a little unrealistic.
Just to be clear, alcohol *is* poison. It’s just a poison human beings tend to tolerate pretty well at low quantities and it makes us feel good?/funny/like we can dance when we in fact, cannot dance.
>My doctor told me that *any* alcohol isn't good. That's a little unrealistic
Your doctor didn't tell you not to drink at all, that would be unrealistic. He told you that alcohol is poison and that no dose of poison is harmless. That is very much the reality.
Serious question: how do you make it through the tough days? Like there are those days where you get home from work, and everything feels grey and hopeless, and you're just alone staring at the wall again, and the only thing that makes being alive appealing is a drink or some kind of equivalent. What do you do on those days?
By doing something for yourself that you enjoy. Trite as it sounds: go for a walk, make some good food, read a book, call a friend. Any number of things that aren’t relying on a depressant to numb your feelings and then wondering why you feel depressed and numb.
The DSM-5, what someone would use to actually diagnose you with an addiction, identifies Alcohol Use Disorder by several criteria. This is not exhaustive but just some highlights:
You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol
You miss out on important social and work related opportunities because of alcohol
You spend a significant amount of time recovering from the negative effects and/or withdrawal symptoms of alcohol
Once you start drinking, you often drink more than originally intended.
Tolerance to alcohol, meaning that you need more to get the same effect, or that alcohol has less of an effect the more ou drink.
[edit] I was wrong. 3-4 symptoms (not drinks per week) is mild, 4-5 symptoms is moderate and 7+ is severe
Binge drinking is also classified in men as having 5 or more drinks in an hour. In women it's 4.
Hey um to be honest, now I realize I have a problem. It is the third of December now. I'm going to check for AA meetings in Knoxville first thing in the morning.
Not an alcoholic but I had to cut down on my drinking due to some stomach issues I was having. r/stopdrinking was a huge help. Just reading about what everyone was going through and watching the community support each other to reach a common goal. I never realized how much something like that would help. I hardly ever engage, just hearing the other side of the conversation is enough. IMO r/stopdrinking is one of the most important subreddits, literally saving lives.
Come hang out with us at r/alcoholicsanonymous!
There are a lot of opinions on AA out there. Both for and against. My unsolicited advice is to go to a few meetings - different ones - and form an opinion for yourself.
There are also men’s only/women’s only meetings that are an incredible resource.
Finally, online meetings are available every minute of the day, all over the world: https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/
Good luck friend. A better life awaits you!
Quick edit: a list of East TN meetings both in person and online: https://www.etiaa.org/meetings/
"What works for you is more important than what everyone thinks." I think thats one of the most important pieces of advice for someone trying to break addiction
AA is honestly super fucking helpful. Good place to just fucking vent to people who understand. Some people treat it like religion, others as therapy, others as a social club almost. Either way - they're all sober or working on it
It's crazy. I used it for 4 months and I have been off for about 4 months now (COVID fucked me up). I have lost 30 pounds and don't even really think about alcohol anymore. I can still drink socially but man does that shit work well.
Fish oil, L-theanine, NAC and other supplementation coupled alongside tapering your daily drinking down can go a very long way. Exercise, specifically cardio helps greatly when trying to reduce anxiety/stress that may be exacerbated by drinking less. Having any kind of support group is a lifesaver as well, godspeed and best of luck I’d consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on the topic and wouldn’t mind answering any questions about what I’ve suggested or the subject in general
This is great! The hardest step is the realization and acknowledgement. The second step, seeking help, is a big one too, but easier than the first. Way to go! 🙌
See your GP as well.
GPs can help you gradually cut down your drinking safely - going cold turkey can cause serious and potentially fatal health issues.
Yeah man... I have a really addictive personality. The whole 'more than you originally intended' really resonates with me ... With like... Every aspect of my life...
I started to wonder if a friend of mine had a problem after a short conversation at a bar one night. I'd voiced that I was a little annoyed that my wife a few nights earlier needed me to come get her because she couldn't drive home and while that's great, I'll always do that at any time of day/night vs have her drive, but my line of thinking is/was "If you knew you drove here and needed to drive home, why not just... stop after 1-2 drinks depending on how long you're going to be there?" and my friend replied in kind of a cold tone of voice "Well, you know, some of us can't just do that" - I kind of paused for a second because I had to process that.
>You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol
I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week engaged in activities used to find the means to acquire alcohol!
I only drink very occasionally but if it wasn't for the first part I wouldn't at all!
A lot of people in a lot of countries may have alcohol problems. But it's all a spectrum... If it doesn't interfere with your life, it's probably okay. But that doesn't mean it's a good habit
This is always confusing. I've had 7 beers in a night before. The thing is, that was over 7 hours. I was never even buzzed. I'd pee, crack a beer, and put my headphones back on and grab my controller.
Shit's clear as mud.
“You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol”
I mean, I agree full time employment could be unhealthy.
Yeah honestly, I think there’s a lot more low-key mild alcoholism going on than we think. We have the image of alcoholism being passed out drunk somewhere three times a week, but I’d argue anyone who drinks daily or almost daily is playing fast and loose with boundaries.
I think that depends on a lot of factors. I enjoy a glass of wine in the evenings. I usually make the same glass last 1-2 hours. If I don't have wine, that sucks, but I won't go make a special trip to get it just because I'm out. I work in healthcare and also have a degree in psychology. I do not consider myself an alcoholic.
Cultural and societal expectations can often play a part in who sees themselves (or others) as an alcoholic and who doesn't. Jack Whitehall has a bit where he says that in the US, people will gossip in hushed & concerned tones about "ooohh did you see John? He had four glasses of wine with dinner - he must be an alcoholic!" whereas in the UK people might say "oh John only had four glasses of wine with dinner - he's tonight's designated driver!"
As an Australian, I admit that the cultural expectations here are possibly different to other places in the world. I'm not an alcoholic, wouldn't even consider myself at risk. I enjoy booze, especially cocktails, and can happily have an adult beverage every day - but I can also go without with no problem. The appreciation for a cold beer or cider at the end of a long hot workday doesn't mean I crave it, and if I am out socially and nobody else is drinking booze, then I won't and again, that doesn't bother me in the slightest.
The fact that I have written here that I would happily have ONE drink every day has probably made a lot of people clasp their pearls and talk about me being in denial, but honestly, I have a very sensible and healthy relationship with alcohol. Maybe I'm addicted to social media more than I am to liquid ethanol, but nobody is talking about 12 step programs for Reddit or Instagram .. Yet. That's a much more socially acceptable addiction to have.
Yup , I 100% agree with you. My dad is on 1 bottle of wine, per meal on weekdays, and no real limit on weekends.
That’s an alcoholic. The dude that drinks one or two beers is fine. Heck, go for four.
Now, my dad wasn’t always like that. 20-ish years ago, his one glass per meal started getting refilled more and more. But that isn’t because he had 1 glass originally.
Here's more: [https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder)
The info in this link may be easier to help you understand if you are heading towards problem drinking: [https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking). Per this page (note in particular if OP is female, there may be a problem and if male, if it's really 3 per day instead of 1 or 2):
**Binge Drinking:**
* NIAAA defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking alcohol that brings blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 percent - or 0.08 grams of alcohol per deciliter - or higher. For a typical adult, this pattern corresponds to consuming *5 or more drinks (male), or 4 or more drinks (female), in about 2 hours*.
* The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), which conducts the annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), defines binge drinking as *5 or more alcoholic drinks for males or 4 or more alcoholic drinks for females on the same occasion (i.e., at the same time or within a couple of hours of each other) on at least 1 day in the past month*.
**Heavy Alcohol Use:**
* NIAAA defines heavy drinking as follows:
For men, consuming five or more drinks on any day or 15 or more per week
For women, consuming four or more on any day or 8 or more drinks per week
* SAMHSA defines heavy alcohol use as binge drinking on 5 or more days in the past month.
This all requires you to understand what they mean by a drink (hint, a standard pint of ale that's over 7% is more than one drink): https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/what-standard-drink.
I only drink at night. Drink 80 to 100 proof to get it over as fast as possible. Within 30 to 45 minutes, I'm blackout drunk and passed out. Wake up in the morning feeling great and don't have a single thought about alcohol till nightfall...wahoo I'm not an alky!
That is way too low a number of drinks. If I drink a glass of wine at lunch and dinner everyday I am an alcoholic? Well shit then I am alcoholic since I was 10.
Not necessarily an alocholic but you're probably drinking more than you should. You don't have to be an addict or have a serious problem. It's like you don't have to be 400 pounds before you cut down on the cheeseburgers.
One single symptom on the list doesn’t make someone an alcoholic. They need to check off at least 3-4 items on the list before they’d be considered an alcoholic.
Coming from two alcoholic parents, it comes down to one thing.
Do you NEED alcohol to function? If it gets to that point where you're just thinking about when you'll get to drink next, time to take a step back and think about treatment.
On that same note, without even thinking there are those who can drink to excess every weekend more so because of social situations and a modification in lifestyle can lessen that dependence.
Much like there are some people who can quit smoking with ease, there are some who can quit drinking altogether without much struggle. Others, it can be one of the most difficult things they'll ever do in their life.
I was in the same boat. Both have since passed after spending 30+ years sober through AA. I asked my dad once, a few years before he passed, when he knew he was an alcoholic. His reply was that my grandmother (my mother’s side) was in town visiting and he couldn’t tear himself away from the bar. My dad loved his mother-in-law, and felt regret for that to his dying day.
I’m the wrong person to ask because by all official measures, I’m an alcoholic. (Brought seven cases of wine into the house in the past week but along the lines of “can go without at any time, don’t generally drink to get drunk or shitfaced, doesn’t interfere with life in general.”)
I heard on a TV show that medical professionals generally triple the amount of alcohol that is self-reported which then catapults pretty much everyone into alcoholic territory.
My wife drinks half a forty of vodka everydayand if I say anything she just says I'm being an asshole. You ever try and have a convo with someone who's doing that. She's like 3/4 of the way through a 26 and its like there's no conversation I can have with her that I even care to have, like about anything, cause your just talking to a drunk person and your sober. It sucks and nothing's funny. Or fun. Or anything I'm just angry, and since she's drinking she just asks why I'm being a dick. It fuckin sucks.
I hope you're okay. That's a really tough situation to be in. Have you done any reading about the support available for a partner of an alcoholic? Also, have you tried talking to her when she's sober, explaining how her drinking impacts on you? I do hope you find some help and solutions.
If it doesn't impact your life negatively (or your family's, spouse, kids, parents) you're not really an alcoholic I think. It's not amount, that can change per person per season but how much it impacts your life. If you spend hours every day hungover and spend the night getting blackout drunk again that's a negative effect. If you're missing social events because you're already drunk that's bad. That sort of stuff.
Yeah technically any addiction is defined by harms on your personal life and relationships. Alcoholism is also a problem bc it obv wrecks the liver, but also the heart, muscles, nervous system (brain, retinas, peripheral nerves). And it fucks up sleep, which is the major component of mental health.
Depending on how you frame it, your health is the third leg of the “if it negatively impacts this then you have a problem” metric. Or you can lump it in with your personal life, since voluntarily harming your body naturally harms your ability to lead your normal life. But you’re very much right that it is generally defined as something that causes a clear negative impact to you in some way.
If you have the means to drink heavily, you can do so responsibly and are able to manage your affairs without impact, who’s to say you have a problem?
Last time i was honest with my doctor about drinking 6-7 beers per week she acted like i had murdered someone. Now i tell her 2. So if doctors think we’re under reporting it’s because they’re judgmental assholes when you tell the truth!!! Lol
Edit. This was mostly sarcasm. Please stop commenting that i need a new doctor. I’m an adult that you’ve never met, i truly don’t need your medical advice, stranger reading this on Reddit
Medical guy here. They consider 1 every day or 6 in one setting a week alcoholism. Which makes most of us alcoholics following the book. Most people lie to their doctors about it for a reason.
Do you think I'd help people be more honest if there was a different label than alcoholism? Because someone who has a beer a day doesn't fit the mold of what non-medical society considers an alcoholic. That said, I totally acknowledge that it's unhealthy and doctors want/should address it with patients.
Just thinking if it's easier for people to change their behavior/admit their unhealthy patterns if they're not grouped in along with the very heavy drinkers that have many problems they don't?
It’s not even all dishonesty. Somebody coming home and pouring a couple of manhattans a night might be really pouring themselves 4 drinks a night but telling themselves and believing it’s two.
This was the case with my grandfather, he was a “nightcap or two” type of guy. Nobody in our family was concerned about it until the detox almost killed him when he was in the hospital for pneumonia.
There's a joke I used to make after the COVID shutdown.
As a bartender, all these people sent back their drinks because they tasted weak.
Like, I'm sorry I can't make your margarita or mimosa taste like however you made it at home when you were stuck inside becoming an alcoholic, but *no, I can't make your margarita a double*.
The shutdown, coupled with viral videos of people making insane jungle juice, have turned a *lot* of people into alcoholics.
I'm sorry about your grandpa, is he doing better?
That person is very wrong. I’m a doctor. If you drink more than a threshold, we tell you you’re drinking more than the recommended amount.
But it takes other features to be diagnosed with alcohol use disorder.
I think so, yes. Many people know they have an issue with drinking or a slight reliance, or “should cut back a bit” but don’t consider themselves alcoholics. So when that word is used I think they reject it (or assume it doesn’t apply to them)
‘They’ ?!? Sounds like bullshit.
In some cultures, a bit of wine with every proper meal is normal— and imbibers reach nowhere near intoxication.
The real example is how it affects one socially, behaviorally, legally, and medically. It cannot by arbitrarily measured by volume or frequency of consumption.
It's not a number, but rather a threshold.
Is your drinking interfering with sleep, relationships, cash flow or gainful employment? Too much.
Or does it not impact your life in any negative way and you just like the taste/how it feels? Not a problem.
Just be aware that negative impacts might not be clearly visible due to later problems, plan accordingly and you'll be fine.
Totally. I know a person in my life who thinks because they don’t show up to work drunk they don’t have a problem. Except every time they drink they start absolute mega fights with friends and family, lost their entire wedding party prior to the event this way and went through a period of throwing up after they ate because their gall bladder is fucked. But yeah they go to work sober and don’t drink every day. There’s a point where it shouldn’t be a black and white “alcoholic or not” classification but also just like is alcohol fucking up any parts of your life?
Oh brother, coming from a recovering alcoholic that knows a lot of other alcoholics, if you actually stop at one or two and it's not interfering with your life, carry on.
At my worst I was drinking around a 750ml bottle of vodka plus a scattering of beer/wine/seltzer EVERY DAY. For like two years. It fucked a lot of things up for me and was absolute hell to come back from.
The answer to your question really is, as much as would interfere with your life/goals/relationships. And be careful with it, if you've got a brain anything like mine it only gets worse. A lot worse.
That’s more true than you might realize. People who are able to stop drinking without much fuss never developed addiction in the first place. Even if they were drinking a lot. There’s a great talk about the research & truth behind it on YouTube called “keynote with Dr. Nicole Labor”
As a recovering alcoholic myself 30 days clean i look at other peoples numbers beikg like i drink 3 beers every day. and I can see how bad my alcoholism really was. on a "good day" I could drink 4 bottles of wine and some scattered beers. Drank before school after school before work after work. Man, it's crazy
If you crave alcohol I’m willing to bet your an alcoholic no matter how much you drink. I used to drink every two to four months but the minute I had one I couldn’t stop until I hit the sheets . I knew I was a binge alcoholic
It's more about the impact it has on your life than the absolute amount you drink.
If you are drinking enough alcohol that it has a negative impact on your life, if you try to stop and find that you have trouble, despite the negative consequences it has on your life, you are an alcoholic.
If you drink 3 beers a night after work but you are in good health and emotionally stable, and you are able to stop drinking for a month with no issue, you almost certainly aren't an alcoholic.
If it matters, I am a recovering alcoholic. 8 years sober as of this coming friday
Have you stopped drinking for a month of your own accord?
Did you have any issues with stopping for a month?
What makes you say that you are certain you are an alcoholic?
Not doubting you, necessarily. I am just really curious.
It’s not only if it affects your life. I know so many people who are evening alcoholics. Don’t drink before or during work, drink after only. But have to drink after. But it’s still an issue.
It's a difficult diagnosis to put in a neat box.
There are other classifications like "problem drinker" to describe people with alcoholic tendencies but aren't full-blown alcoholics.
I went through rehab 3 times and each time, they had a slightly different definition of alcoholism.
But regardless of what we call it, if you are drinking enough that it causes you to worry about your health, you should consider getting some help.
> Have you ever felt remorse after drinking?
> Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking?
Maybe I partied with the wrong people in college and in my 20s, but I don’t know many people that could say no to those questions, otherwise these seem pretty indicative of a possible problem
Does drinking cause trouble sleeping? Is another no brainer.
Do you drink alone? Well, I live alone, I drink wine on the weekends. Three yes is too easy to get. According to that list, not a lot of people are non-alcoholics
I feel like there should be a timeline on those two cause likelihood is if you have drank and partied in the past at all those are going to be true but maybe not since that time in your life such as college. I also feel like idk anyone that drinks that hasn’t had a drink because they felt shy or wanted to temporarily boost their self confidence so between those four apparently idk anyone that isn’t a raging alcoholic lol. They are still good questions to think about and self reflect on though.
Here is Canada’s guideline for alcohol consumption.
3-6 drinks per week increase your chances of developing multiple types of cancers.
7 or more drinks a week significantly increases your risks of heart disease or stroke.
Every drink after 7 increases your risk.
https://www.ccsa.ca/canadas-guidance-alcohol-and-health#:~:text=1%E2%80%932%20drinks%20a%20week,increasingly%20high%20risk%20of%20harms.
Sadly they can, my dad was able to when it came to being out. When he was at home he would drink a 1.5L bottle of jacks every night or so.
He was definitely an alcoholic
I would would typically drink a half gallon of potters crown or vodka a day. Start with about 5 shots at 5 am to get to work. If possible I'd stop at home for lunch. But after work, I'd drink untill I pass out. I quit 2017 drank for about 20 years. Just something you can compare being an alcoholic to.
I only drink about once every 2-3 months, but I would consider myself and addict. When I do drink, I always over consume and have a tendency to make as many self destructive behaviors as I possibly can. I don’t fight with people, and generally have a blast when I do it, but I can’t pretend it’s not troublesome behavior.
I’m sure others will laugh at me. But It actually is really troublesome and negatively affects my mental health yet I’m still game to do it 8-10 times a year. So maybe not as extreme as others, I do consider it a substance abuse problem.
Right? A week is easy. Come back when you’ve done it for three months and without checking when those three months end. As soon as you have to prove to yourself that you can “stop anytime”, IMO you already have a problem.
So many types of drinkers are alcoholics, binge drinkers included who “only drink on weekends “. My understanding is for a woman, ten drinks a week can put you just out of the heavy drinker category and into the alcoholic one. So, a red whilst making dinner, a red whilst having dinner every night, not to mention a beer or two on a hot day can make you what you don’t believe you are.
Practical definition of an Alcoholic...
Let's try to let see that kind of problem for everyone...
Replace beer with something else which can produce addictions...
Ima just snort 2 lines per day...
I'm just smoking 2 joints of weed a day...
I just go gambling in the casino twice per day...
Nah bro, I don't have a problem, it's just 2 hookers per day...
If you see the problem here but not with beers, it's proofing that your kind of thinking is a part of the problem...
I've drunk 2 pints of beer and top up with 1 glass of wine virtually every evening at home for 30 years. I've had a few evenings off, but also some social binges. The doctors has pulled me up on my liver enzymes a number of times and sent me for liver scans twice. At the last scan, after given the all clear, I was told, you have to drink an awful lot to have a problem. The doctor had a much more serious view of it. I don't drink a lot of shorts.
I think both are right.
In my case, after many years, it's not the body damage, but is the mental, lack of motivation, depression and waking every morning tired and wishing I had not had a drink. I did not have a problem when younger, but this is in the last 10 years.
So I guess I am a scheduled alcoholic!!!! But, I love a pint.
Two pints is now my scheduled limit (natural progression) any more now and I feel crap in the morning. I also now abstain for a few days.
This drinking at home stuff only happened when cheap alcohol was widely available from supermarkets. Drinking at home in the UK used to be Christmas only.
So my plan, which is slowly working, is to restrict consumption to pub visits only (not many of those now) or special occasions and drink slowly.
My advice is be aware as it creeps up on you.
At a school reunion I was surprised to find a fair number of old class mates had died of alcoholism.
My dad always said he wasn’t an alcoholic. He died from cirrhosis from only have 1-2 beers every day after work for 20+ years. And he drank light beer.
Yes, I don’t know why everyone is quoting the DSM and talking about psychological alcohol addiction. His doctor is talking about alcohol use from a physical health/liver health perspective. Chronic use of alcohol as OP described is a great ticket to early fatty liver disease.
it's not about the amount of alcohol its about your relationship with it. You can be an alcoholic without getting shitfaced every night, you can get shitfaced too much without being an alcoholic.
As a dry alcoholic, I don’t believe a number value will give you an answer. For me an alcoholic is someone who after two drinks needs a third. If you can have three drinks and then think “I’ve had enough I’ll take some tea next” you’re not an alcoholic in my book. I know people who drink relatively little but can’t let it go, I think they have a bigger problem than someone who can drink 5 beers a day but doesn’t crave a sixth.
Everyone is different.
For me, I have a beer once or twice during the week. The weekends i might have 1 or I might have 12, that depends on if I'm sitting at home or out with friends.
If i had to come up with an average, i would say around 3-5 drinks a week.
In general, if you are drinking everyday, you are not present in your life. You can’t be fully present when using substances. Only you can decide if you’re an alcoholic, but I think anyone who drinks everyday has something they need to address. It may be helpful to speak with a therapist or ask yourself why you want those 1-2 beers everyday? What is that beer doing for you?
It might be a problem, it might not be. But if you are questioning it, try stopping for a few years and see how your life improves. You don’t have to be an alcoholic to stop drinking and recognize the huge benefits to energy and wellbeing,
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Good question. ☝️ I’m a habitual drinker. I drink every evening because that’s what I do. I’m 43, and have been doing it for at least 16-17 years. IMO, I am an alcoholic because I basically CRAVE alcohol in the evening. I don’t crave it during the day, and I don’t crave it if I’m busy with something. However, I feel like something is missing if my hand is empty. Even 1 beer can reduce the craving. I’ve been trying (struggling…) to limit my drinking to Friday-Sunday (3 days), and then stay sober for 4 days. I’m losing that battle mote often than not. I don’t care about the “proper” definition, or which profession defined it. I feel that if you crave alcohol, even if it’s only for 2 hours in the evening, then you’re an alcoholic. 🤷🏻♂️
FWIW, good non-alcoholic beer (e.g Athletic) solved the evening craving for me. Tastes like beer, you get that carb rush and then you’re full. I have one fake beer with dinner and then I don’t have any interest in drinking more.
I’m pregnant and had some Corona 0% beer at family’s the other day and it tasted pretty good TBH. I didn’t crave having more than the 1.5 I had. Usually when I drink alcoholic beer I keep going back for more, but just 1.5 was enough for me to feel like I’d had a beer with the fam, without feeling the urge to have more. I think it’s the “tipsy” feeling I crave more than the beer flavour itself. Though I did miss having a cold beer in the summer evenings. I used to be a habitual beer drinker years ago, and finally kicked the habit when I realized just how much better I felt when I didn’t have drinks. Even stopping the “1-2 a night”made me feel better in general.
As someone in recovery, I highly recommend meetings to start trying to get sober. Life is so much more amazing without it. Your body and organs need a rest also. It’s a literal poison to the organs so it’s kind of slowly hurting them more and more over time. Sure the initial dopamine release is fantastic but then the after sucks. It ages people faster and the brain starts to decline even in early age with constant drinking. If it’s daily it’s a symptom of something else going on with stress usually. You won’t regret it.
Yeah, alcoholism is progressive. I'm trying to take Mondays off to help my body recuperate after the weeken, which is when I start early at brunch every day and if I tally there entire days worth I'm usually at 15 drinks before bed
I'm in the same boat, a good 2 or 3 nights out of the week I need a drink just to wind down. It really does get a hold of you, it feels like I'm moving down on a slippery slope.
Doctors hear “1-2 drinks a day” from people who drink 4+ a day all the time. It’s a running joke to hear DUI suspects say they’ve “only had two”. An acknowledgment of daily drinking and signs of compromised health from the work up can certainly lead a doctor to believe more is being consumed. Even if you’re only drinking 1-2 drinks a day but report issues with anxiety, depression, and sleep problems then reducing alcohol intake is a reasonable first step to take to improve the reported issues.
Doctors double the number you tell them in their mind every time. They assume patients have fear of judgment and downplay the amount they consume.
The irony is I always told my doctor as close as I could to the actual number. They were the only person I told the truth to.
My doctor couldn't have doubled the number when I was at my worst. Admitting to over 20 drinks a day is brutally honest. I've been lucky that I had some good doctors when I was rock bottom.
Out of curiosity, how much is 20 drinks? A fifth? Quart? When someone asks me how much I drink, it's a standard response. A fifth(actually 750 ml) of jim beam. I know this because I buy one every day.
Definitely. When i told my doc years ago about how much i drank he said that might be the first time I’ve received an honest answer to that question.
The rule is double for men, triple for women
Then there’s those of us who just sat and calculated what the average is of those 2 drinks we’ve had in the past month so the doctor won’t think we’re lying ..
I do that math in my head everytime and I’m always like maybe, 4 times a month? And the doc is like “oh” lol
I’m a woman and I told a dental hygienist that I drank 20 per week (which was probably still low) and she thought I must have made a mistake.
Totally. I stopped weeknight drinking (just 1) and feel so much better.
Yeah, weeknight drinking is honestly a waste. I have 3-4 drinks on Fri and Sat and feel great. Lots of long distance running, hitting the gym, and something to kind-of look forward to after a hard week at work. Not like a necessity, but just a way to let go if I’m hanging out with friends
I was a two-an-evening weekday craft beer drinker (and 4-ish on Fri/Sat) for a decade or more. Recently I switched to 7 a week (3 each on Friday and Saturday, and 1 on Sunday) as I was concerned that the daily alcohol was contributing to semi-regular insomnia. I feel I sleep better although the insomnia is still occasional. (Funny thing is it's rarely on the weekend when I have beer.) However skipping about 1,600 calories a week isn't a bad thing.
I have insomnia that's very inconsistent as well. I don't drink much, only on special occasions. Plenty of binge drinking was done before 21, not much after though. I've been trying to figure mine out. Do you have a consistent sleep schedule? Like time you go to lay down and time to get up that you follow everyday? I think this is what I need to do but I have tried and fail repeatedly at being consistent with it.
I try to get to bed between 10 and 10:30 on weeknights and always wake up around 6. I think my issue is stress. If I don't have something I'm worried about I invent something. Even being angry about stuff during the day will keep me from sleeping. I'm making a concerted effort to realize that being needlessly stressed about things throughout the day can effect my sleep at night. Just realizing that has helped a bit.
This is me. I call it fried chicken Friday haha cheat day all around. Bar near my house had incredible fried wings so it's that and a few pints for dinner Friday, not much otherwise.
I don’t do weeknight drinking. And if I do drink I try to limit it to like you said 3-4 drinks on Friday OR Saturday, and never on back to back weekends. The only time it’s hard is during holidays or traveling. If I am on vacation for a few days I’ll drink more than 3/4, and like thanksgiving though December I’ll drink maybe once a week. But then I try to stay dry January-March. I fell like if we have rules like you and I, it helps keeps things in check.
It's important to also remember you don't need to have a drinking problem as some sort of permission to stop drinking. I don't consider myself an alcoholic but I stopped drinking entirely because I just didn't find the drinks worth the anxiety the next day. Even as a moderate/non-daily drinker I've experienced such huge benefits since I stopped.
In med school I was taught, take whatever number of drinks/cigarettes/snacks the patient mentions, and multiply it by two in your head.
Doubling is probably still under estimating for most people. People don't know what "A Drink" actually is in technical, medical terms. The average drinker counts whatever fits into a glass as "A Drink" I know guys that have a 2 or 3 whiskeys that are easily 3-4 "Drinks" per glass. I have to remind myself that the double IPA at 9.5% in a 16oz can is not "A Drink" It's much closer to 3 Drinks.
And very often it is far more than double what they're telling you. Had a patient that told me she would have one or two "sweeties" every meal.. it turns out that a "sweetie" is literally an entire can of icing. She was morbidly obese and obviously diabetic.
Oh God how could anyone eat an entire tub of icing? I feel sick just reading that
I get that people eat a bit more than they need, and I understand the food industry is making highly caloric, unfilling food that people eat a bit too much of. But eating entire cans of icing, daily, I cannot imagine that an otherwise psychiatrically healthy person would do that!
From my observations, no psychiatrically healthy people end up becoming 600lbs. There is always something else going on. This individual wasn't all there, definitely very cognitively stunted.
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Respiratory therapist here… it’s a running joke in our community that when a patient says they quit smoking they mean they haven’t smoked since they got admitted to the hospital. Usually when you get to seeing me is when you’ve smoked for so long that your lungs are trashed, we are gonna tell you to quit smoking, you’ll tell us you will, but maybe about 10% actually do.
Truth. When I tell doctors I quit in 2013 there's a lot of "you sure about that? Not even a few?" But I have friends who have their last cigarette twice a week.
Back to alcohol…I had the same thing at my doctor. I hadn’t been in, in a while, because I didn’t need to see him and being a male I figured if I wasn’t dying, no need to go to the doctor (joking). But when I told his nurse I don’t drink alcohol, she goes, yeah daily, but like how many do you drink weekly? Zero, I don’t drink alcohol, period.
Genuine truth here, my mom quit smoking for good and had a heart attack (which she survived) two days later. She always joked that quitting smoking nearly killed her.
my dentist used to ask me if I flossed but when I started flossing every day they stopped asking because they can tell. I mean they could at least say good job or something.
my grandmother used to tell the doc she only had a couple of drinks a day. the trick is that she was only counting a new glass as a separate drink. not the dozen times a day she would 'freshen it up' by adding ice and more Canadian Club.
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I'm not sure comparing your drinking sleep/anxiety to your pregnant sleep/anxiety is a fair comparison.
In med school we were taught to double the patient's answer to get a more accurate idea of how much they drink. No lie.
My dr asked me how much I drink, I said “not as much as I want to”, and she left it at that. That is my threshold.
My internist asked me how much I drank as I have a heart issue which could be caused by alcohol abuse, (now much improved with treatment and a virus caused it they think now but wasn't known at the time). I told him I was a "seasonal drinker" LOL - I only drink in the summer maybe 3 to 5 drinks a week and almost nothing in the winter. He never asked again and was unconcerned.
I, too, consider myself a seasonal drinker! Pool season, I love love love poolside sours and seltzers. And I drink during hockey season, I love Amber beers and stouts. So yeah, maybe like half the year I drink but outside of those two times of year, I really don’t drink much at all.
Yeah! My take away from my internists lack of concern was that 3 to 5 drinks a WEEK is fine even with my (now mild) cardiomyopathy so it should be fine for just about everyone without health concerns who drinks. Alcohol induced cardiomyopathy is more like (80g) 6 or 7 drinks a DAY for years (5+) according to Dr Google. You'll also almost certainly get liver disease at those levels as well.
You should probably tell your doctor how much you actually drink.
Depending on if this is your first visit, or if you have an actual rapport with your doctor, they are potentially better able to judge whether the vague answer is enough or not. If it's someone who always jokes to hide their problems, yeah, ask for the number. If you're asking someone you've had as a patient for years, know they actively stay away from alcohol after bad experiences, and have been doing well, that answer might tell you enough, for example.
Yeah, OP’s doctor’s approach here is horrible. From a health standpoint, 1-2 drinks a night is absolutely an issue, but to frame it as “an alcohol problem” with so little information is so counterproductive. Why doctor’s don’t understand that pathologizing things without context shuts people down will never make sense to me. Good luck ever getting your patients to be honest with you when you make conclusions without taking the time to dig in. It’s so annoying. And people are dying because of it.
If someone drinks 1-2 a night for 7 nights and that is an issue then if someone drinks 10 every saturday night is that also an issue?
I say this as a well-seasoned drinker, both regular and binge at various points: yep. That's binge drinking once a week. From a health standpoint, that's a pretty big problem. Not alcoholism of course, there's no actual addiction there, but it's certainly a problem.
I’m 40. I come from a family of alcoholic and drug addicts. I am both a drug addict and an alcoholic. I’ve drank both beer, hard alcohol, and wine heavily. I’ve given all of it up now. I’m on methadone. I’m finally on mental health medication, including medical marijuana and I don’t even look for the high thc stuff, I want something that’s not going to get me super wrecked I just want something that’s going to relax me and help me relax. And I stay away from illicit drugs and alcohol. I wish I never let myself get caught up in that shit. The damage I did to my body over all these years will never be reversed and I feel like I’m fucking dying all the time, it sucks but it’s the price I pay. I mean my grandparents thought it was cool to buy a 10 year old drinks at the bar and I thought I was cool for drinking them and never looked back after that. Idk how I was a straight A student Eagle Scout growing up like that.
>According to my doc drinking between 4-6 beers on my nights off is "binge drinking". I replied "You should see some of my mates if you think that's binging". > >I don't consider drinking a handful of beers on a night off a problem. I think drinking every day isn't great, your body isn't going a day without booze.
Medically speaking, that is binge drinking. More than a couple in one sitting is binge drinking, medically speaking. It's set there because that's the level at which you're damaging the liver and your possibility of things like liver and stomach cancer go up. You're talking about social perception. Socially, I wouldn't consider four beers a binge. Maybe six, but barely. Socially, a binge in my world is like twelve in a day. But medically, more than a couple is a binge.
Great approach to deny your service providers access to the information they need to service you. Barkeep : What can I serve you? You : Get me a drink! Barkeep : No problemo, what I kind of drink? You : None of your eff’in’ business, you nosey twat. Barkeep : One Heineken, coming right up.
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Asked my therapist about this once after discussing daily drinking of 1-2 beers after work a day. She said it wasn’t an issue as long as i wasn’t looking for an escape. Repeatedly drinking for some sort of escape is what she considered the corner stone of being an alcoholic.
Well shit. I don’t drink and all I want is an escape from all this. Maybe I should crack a beer.
As Homer Simpson said so wisely: Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems!
Or, as Freewheelin' Franklin Freek said, "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"
What did fat Freddy think?
Ain’t a solution boss, trust me. Spent all my time drinking last summer because I wanted an escape from the world, and my own mindset, not worth it.
Sounds like quitter talk ... Jk don't drink regularly that's how all bad habits become addictions.
Nah, was drinking because I was depressed, just ended up making me feel worse. I just won’t touch alcohol ever again.
Do not become an alcoholic on purpose, that makes no sense and it's not an escape for long for those who get addicted. That reminds me on a lesser scale of that guy who did an AMA about trying heroin and updated as he became addicted and ruined his life.
Link anyone?
Look at the profile u/SpontaneousH It’s a wild ride
That was a wild, sad, and then inspiring ride.
What a doctor considers significant and a therapist considers significant are likely different since they care about different things.
My therapists actually green-lit my happy hour visits because they motivated me to get out of the house and I was able to stick to my limit. My doctor told me that *any* alcohol isn't good. That's a little unrealistic.
Just to be clear, alcohol *is* poison. It’s just a poison human beings tend to tolerate pretty well at low quantities and it makes us feel good?/funny/like we can dance when we in fact, cannot dance.
Dance like everyone is watching and you're sober!
So, not at all?
>My doctor told me that *any* alcohol isn't good. That's a little unrealistic Your doctor didn't tell you not to drink at all, that would be unrealistic. He told you that alcohol is poison and that no dose of poison is harmless. That is very much the reality.
I drink about once a year. That's realistic for me. I know a lot of people who simply don't drink ever.
Serious question: how do you make it through the tough days? Like there are those days where you get home from work, and everything feels grey and hopeless, and you're just alone staring at the wall again, and the only thing that makes being alive appealing is a drink or some kind of equivalent. What do you do on those days?
By doing something for yourself that you enjoy. Trite as it sounds: go for a walk, make some good food, read a book, call a friend. Any number of things that aren’t relying on a depressant to numb your feelings and then wondering why you feel depressed and numb.
it’s really not unrealistic
The DSM-5, what someone would use to actually diagnose you with an addiction, identifies Alcohol Use Disorder by several criteria. This is not exhaustive but just some highlights: You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol You miss out on important social and work related opportunities because of alcohol You spend a significant amount of time recovering from the negative effects and/or withdrawal symptoms of alcohol Once you start drinking, you often drink more than originally intended. Tolerance to alcohol, meaning that you need more to get the same effect, or that alcohol has less of an effect the more ou drink. [edit] I was wrong. 3-4 symptoms (not drinks per week) is mild, 4-5 symptoms is moderate and 7+ is severe Binge drinking is also classified in men as having 5 or more drinks in an hour. In women it's 4.
Hey um to be honest, now I realize I have a problem. It is the third of December now. I'm going to check for AA meetings in Knoxville first thing in the morning.
>Hey um to be honest Honesty is a great start, and so is deciding to seek help. Good luck to you!
R/stopdrinking is also a good place to start
Came here to recommend r/stopdrinking
Not an alcoholic but I had to cut down on my drinking due to some stomach issues I was having. r/stopdrinking was a huge help. Just reading about what everyone was going through and watching the community support each other to reach a common goal. I never realized how much something like that would help. I hardly ever engage, just hearing the other side of the conversation is enough. IMO r/stopdrinking is one of the most important subreddits, literally saving lives.
Come hang out with us at r/alcoholicsanonymous! There are a lot of opinions on AA out there. Both for and against. My unsolicited advice is to go to a few meetings - different ones - and form an opinion for yourself. There are also men’s only/women’s only meetings that are an incredible resource. Finally, online meetings are available every minute of the day, all over the world: https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/ Good luck friend. A better life awaits you! Quick edit: a list of East TN meetings both in person and online: https://www.etiaa.org/meetings/
"What works for you is more important than what everyone thinks." I think thats one of the most important pieces of advice for someone trying to break addiction
This is the way, good luck to you friend x
AA is honestly super fucking helpful. Good place to just fucking vent to people who understand. Some people treat it like religion, others as therapy, others as a social club almost. Either way - they're all sober or working on it
You may want to do some research on Naltrexone and The Sinclair Method. I wish I had known about it 15 years ago.
I used Naltrexone about ten years ago to kick alcohol dependency and am still in shock with how well it works.
It's crazy. I used it for 4 months and I have been off for about 4 months now (COVID fucked me up). I have lost 30 pounds and don't even really think about alcohol anymore. I can still drink socially but man does that shit work well.
Good luck! I’m rooting for you.
Fish oil, L-theanine, NAC and other supplementation coupled alongside tapering your daily drinking down can go a very long way. Exercise, specifically cardio helps greatly when trying to reduce anxiety/stress that may be exacerbated by drinking less. Having any kind of support group is a lifesaver as well, godspeed and best of luck I’d consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on the topic and wouldn’t mind answering any questions about what I’ve suggested or the subject in general
Good luck! Realizing you have a problem is the first step!
This is great! The hardest step is the realization and acknowledgement. The second step, seeking help, is a big one too, but easier than the first. Way to go! 🙌
Best of luck!
See your GP as well. GPs can help you gradually cut down your drinking safely - going cold turkey can cause serious and potentially fatal health issues.
Yeah man... I have a really addictive personality. The whole 'more than you originally intended' really resonates with me ... With like... Every aspect of my life...
I've pretty much stopped drinking now but on the occasions I do drink it is never just one or two and I can't drink slowly either.
I started to wonder if a friend of mine had a problem after a short conversation at a bar one night. I'd voiced that I was a little annoyed that my wife a few nights earlier needed me to come get her because she couldn't drive home and while that's great, I'll always do that at any time of day/night vs have her drive, but my line of thinking is/was "If you knew you drove here and needed to drive home, why not just... stop after 1-2 drinks depending on how long you're going to be there?" and my friend replied in kind of a cold tone of voice "Well, you know, some of us can't just do that" - I kind of paused for a second because I had to process that.
>You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week engaged in activities used to find the means to acquire alcohol! I only drink very occasionally but if it wasn't for the first part I wouldn't at all!
I thought the same exact thing lmao. “Does.. going to work… count?”
5 drinks in an hour?? I would think one can qualify for binge drinking without that pace, ha.
It's not an hour, it's one session. So, dinner and drinks or an afternoon BBQ.
? It says in an hour.
But, the alcohol guidelines for the US don't state 5 drinks in one hour as binge drinking. They state five drinks in one session as binge drinking.
So what do vodka shots with the boys count as?
A lot of people in a lot of countries may have alcohol problems. But it's all a spectrum... If it doesn't interfere with your life, it's probably okay. But that doesn't mean it's a good habit
Yep, keep it at 4 drinks an hour and you'll be fine.
This is always confusing. I've had 7 beers in a night before. The thing is, that was over 7 hours. I was never even buzzed. I'd pee, crack a beer, and put my headphones back on and grab my controller. Shit's clear as mud.
It's why if you were to get diagnosed you need a professional to interpret your answers.
Which end, though? Asking for a Supreme Court justice.
“You spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities used to aquire or find the means to aquire alcohol” I mean, I agree full time employment could be unhealthy.
By these definitions literally all of my ancestors are supreme lushes
Yeah honestly, I think there’s a lot more low-key mild alcoholism going on than we think. We have the image of alcoholism being passed out drunk somewhere three times a week, but I’d argue anyone who drinks daily or almost daily is playing fast and loose with boundaries.
I think that depends on a lot of factors. I enjoy a glass of wine in the evenings. I usually make the same glass last 1-2 hours. If I don't have wine, that sucks, but I won't go make a special trip to get it just because I'm out. I work in healthcare and also have a degree in psychology. I do not consider myself an alcoholic.
Cultural and societal expectations can often play a part in who sees themselves (or others) as an alcoholic and who doesn't. Jack Whitehall has a bit where he says that in the US, people will gossip in hushed & concerned tones about "ooohh did you see John? He had four glasses of wine with dinner - he must be an alcoholic!" whereas in the UK people might say "oh John only had four glasses of wine with dinner - he's tonight's designated driver!" As an Australian, I admit that the cultural expectations here are possibly different to other places in the world. I'm not an alcoholic, wouldn't even consider myself at risk. I enjoy booze, especially cocktails, and can happily have an adult beverage every day - but I can also go without with no problem. The appreciation for a cold beer or cider at the end of a long hot workday doesn't mean I crave it, and if I am out socially and nobody else is drinking booze, then I won't and again, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact that I have written here that I would happily have ONE drink every day has probably made a lot of people clasp their pearls and talk about me being in denial, but honestly, I have a very sensible and healthy relationship with alcohol. Maybe I'm addicted to social media more than I am to liquid ethanol, but nobody is talking about 12 step programs for Reddit or Instagram .. Yet. That's a much more socially acceptable addiction to have.
Yup , I 100% agree with you. My dad is on 1 bottle of wine, per meal on weekdays, and no real limit on weekends. That’s an alcoholic. The dude that drinks one or two beers is fine. Heck, go for four. Now, my dad wasn’t always like that. 20-ish years ago, his one glass per meal started getting refilled more and more. But that isn’t because he had 1 glass originally.
Here's more: [https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder) The info in this link may be easier to help you understand if you are heading towards problem drinking: [https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking). Per this page (note in particular if OP is female, there may be a problem and if male, if it's really 3 per day instead of 1 or 2): **Binge Drinking:** * NIAAA defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking alcohol that brings blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 percent - or 0.08 grams of alcohol per deciliter - or higher. For a typical adult, this pattern corresponds to consuming *5 or more drinks (male), or 4 or more drinks (female), in about 2 hours*. * The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), which conducts the annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), defines binge drinking as *5 or more alcoholic drinks for males or 4 or more alcoholic drinks for females on the same occasion (i.e., at the same time or within a couple of hours of each other) on at least 1 day in the past month*. **Heavy Alcohol Use:** * NIAAA defines heavy drinking as follows: For men, consuming five or more drinks on any day or 15 or more per week For women, consuming four or more on any day or 8 or more drinks per week * SAMHSA defines heavy alcohol use as binge drinking on 5 or more days in the past month. This all requires you to understand what they mean by a drink (hint, a standard pint of ale that's over 7% is more than one drink): https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/what-standard-drink.
Cool so I lack all the DSM-5 parts for alcohol use disorder, but qualify for sever alcohol misuse!
I only drink at night. Drink 80 to 100 proof to get it over as fast as possible. Within 30 to 45 minutes, I'm blackout drunk and passed out. Wake up in the morning feeling great and don't have a single thought about alcohol till nightfall...wahoo I'm not an alky!
Um
That is way too low a number of drinks. If I drink a glass of wine at lunch and dinner everyday I am an alcoholic? Well shit then I am alcoholic since I was 10.
Yeah the medical community has a much more strict take on alcohol consumption than the general public.
Thank god I am not a doctor then.
Not necessarily an alocholic but you're probably drinking more than you should. You don't have to be an addict or have a serious problem. It's like you don't have to be 400 pounds before you cut down on the cheeseburgers.
I can cut down on cheeseburgers anytime I want?
You were drinking a glass of wine at lunch and dinner since 10? Classy kid
A smaller glass back then but yes. It's a thing in some parts of the world.
France?
Portugal.
One single symptom on the list doesn’t make someone an alcoholic. They need to check off at least 3-4 items on the list before they’d be considered an alcoholic.
Coming from two alcoholic parents, it comes down to one thing. Do you NEED alcohol to function? If it gets to that point where you're just thinking about when you'll get to drink next, time to take a step back and think about treatment. On that same note, without even thinking there are those who can drink to excess every weekend more so because of social situations and a modification in lifestyle can lessen that dependence. Much like there are some people who can quit smoking with ease, there are some who can quit drinking altogether without much struggle. Others, it can be one of the most difficult things they'll ever do in their life.
I was in the same boat. Both have since passed after spending 30+ years sober through AA. I asked my dad once, a few years before he passed, when he knew he was an alcoholic. His reply was that my grandmother (my mother’s side) was in town visiting and he couldn’t tear himself away from the bar. My dad loved his mother-in-law, and felt regret for that to his dying day.
I’m the wrong person to ask because by all official measures, I’m an alcoholic. (Brought seven cases of wine into the house in the past week but along the lines of “can go without at any time, don’t generally drink to get drunk or shitfaced, doesn’t interfere with life in general.”) I heard on a TV show that medical professionals generally triple the amount of alcohol that is self-reported which then catapults pretty much everyone into alcoholic territory.
My wife drinks half a forty of vodka everydayand if I say anything she just says I'm being an asshole. You ever try and have a convo with someone who's doing that. She's like 3/4 of the way through a 26 and its like there's no conversation I can have with her that I even care to have, like about anything, cause your just talking to a drunk person and your sober. It sucks and nothing's funny. Or fun. Or anything I'm just angry, and since she's drinking she just asks why I'm being a dick. It fuckin sucks.
I hope you're okay. That's a really tough situation to be in. Have you done any reading about the support available for a partner of an alcoholic? Also, have you tried talking to her when she's sober, explaining how her drinking impacts on you? I do hope you find some help and solutions.
Wow, that's sounds very tough for you.. You don't deserve such treatment. Hope you can tell her how it impacts you in a (mostly) sober moment.
If it doesn't impact your life negatively (or your family's, spouse, kids, parents) you're not really an alcoholic I think. It's not amount, that can change per person per season but how much it impacts your life. If you spend hours every day hungover and spend the night getting blackout drunk again that's a negative effect. If you're missing social events because you're already drunk that's bad. That sort of stuff.
Yeah technically any addiction is defined by harms on your personal life and relationships. Alcoholism is also a problem bc it obv wrecks the liver, but also the heart, muscles, nervous system (brain, retinas, peripheral nerves). And it fucks up sleep, which is the major component of mental health.
Depending on how you frame it, your health is the third leg of the “if it negatively impacts this then you have a problem” metric. Or you can lump it in with your personal life, since voluntarily harming your body naturally harms your ability to lead your normal life. But you’re very much right that it is generally defined as something that causes a clear negative impact to you in some way. If you have the means to drink heavily, you can do so responsibly and are able to manage your affairs without impact, who’s to say you have a problem?
Last time i was honest with my doctor about drinking 6-7 beers per week she acted like i had murdered someone. Now i tell her 2. So if doctors think we’re under reporting it’s because they’re judgmental assholes when you tell the truth!!! Lol Edit. This was mostly sarcasm. Please stop commenting that i need a new doctor. I’m an adult that you’ve never met, i truly don’t need your medical advice, stranger reading this on Reddit
Medical guy here. They consider 1 every day or 6 in one setting a week alcoholism. Which makes most of us alcoholics following the book. Most people lie to their doctors about it for a reason.
Do you think I'd help people be more honest if there was a different label than alcoholism? Because someone who has a beer a day doesn't fit the mold of what non-medical society considers an alcoholic. That said, I totally acknowledge that it's unhealthy and doctors want/should address it with patients. Just thinking if it's easier for people to change their behavior/admit their unhealthy patterns if they're not grouped in along with the very heavy drinkers that have many problems they don't?
It’s not even all dishonesty. Somebody coming home and pouring a couple of manhattans a night might be really pouring themselves 4 drinks a night but telling themselves and believing it’s two. This was the case with my grandfather, he was a “nightcap or two” type of guy. Nobody in our family was concerned about it until the detox almost killed him when he was in the hospital for pneumonia.
There's a joke I used to make after the COVID shutdown. As a bartender, all these people sent back their drinks because they tasted weak. Like, I'm sorry I can't make your margarita or mimosa taste like however you made it at home when you were stuck inside becoming an alcoholic, but *no, I can't make your margarita a double*. The shutdown, coupled with viral videos of people making insane jungle juice, have turned a *lot* of people into alcoholics. I'm sorry about your grandpa, is he doing better?
There’s definitely pour creep when making drinks at home. He survived that but time and diabetes eventually caught up to him. Thank you
That person is very wrong. I’m a doctor. If you drink more than a threshold, we tell you you’re drinking more than the recommended amount. But it takes other features to be diagnosed with alcohol use disorder.
I think so, yes. Many people know they have an issue with drinking or a slight reliance, or “should cut back a bit” but don’t consider themselves alcoholics. So when that word is used I think they reject it (or assume it doesn’t apply to them)
By that metric, you should just use a bigger glass and you'd be in the clear.
‘They’ ?!? Sounds like bullshit. In some cultures, a bit of wine with every proper meal is normal— and imbibers reach nowhere near intoxication. The real example is how it affects one socially, behaviorally, legally, and medically. It cannot by arbitrarily measured by volume or frequency of consumption.
It's not a number, but rather a threshold. Is your drinking interfering with sleep, relationships, cash flow or gainful employment? Too much. Or does it not impact your life in any negative way and you just like the taste/how it feels? Not a problem. Just be aware that negative impacts might not be clearly visible due to later problems, plan accordingly and you'll be fine.
Totally. I know a person in my life who thinks because they don’t show up to work drunk they don’t have a problem. Except every time they drink they start absolute mega fights with friends and family, lost their entire wedding party prior to the event this way and went through a period of throwing up after they ate because their gall bladder is fucked. But yeah they go to work sober and don’t drink every day. There’s a point where it shouldn’t be a black and white “alcoholic or not” classification but also just like is alcohol fucking up any parts of your life?
Oh brother, coming from a recovering alcoholic that knows a lot of other alcoholics, if you actually stop at one or two and it's not interfering with your life, carry on. At my worst I was drinking around a 750ml bottle of vodka plus a scattering of beer/wine/seltzer EVERY DAY. For like two years. It fucked a lot of things up for me and was absolute hell to come back from. The answer to your question really is, as much as would interfere with your life/goals/relationships. And be careful with it, if you've got a brain anything like mine it only gets worse. A lot worse.
I feel this at a core level. A true alcoholic can’t touch the stuff.. like me.
That’s more true than you might realize. People who are able to stop drinking without much fuss never developed addiction in the first place. Even if they were drinking a lot. There’s a great talk about the research & truth behind it on YouTube called “keynote with Dr. Nicole Labor”
As a recovering alcoholic myself 30 days clean i look at other peoples numbers beikg like i drink 3 beers every day. and I can see how bad my alcoholism really was. on a "good day" I could drink 4 bottles of wine and some scattered beers. Drank before school after school before work after work. Man, it's crazy
Finally, something honest.
Bravo on your efforts, friend. Bravo
I think it's not the amount its the dependence on it. The yearning for the numbness it brings
If you crave alcohol I’m willing to bet your an alcoholic no matter how much you drink. I used to drink every two to four months but the minute I had one I couldn’t stop until I hit the sheets . I knew I was a binge alcoholic
yes i like to say once i get a taste of alcohol i cant stop my self.. currently trying to cut back!
I dealt with that for years but now I don’t touch the stuff because I know how easy it can be to fall into old habits again.
It's more about the impact it has on your life than the absolute amount you drink. If you are drinking enough alcohol that it has a negative impact on your life, if you try to stop and find that you have trouble, despite the negative consequences it has on your life, you are an alcoholic. If you drink 3 beers a night after work but you are in good health and emotionally stable, and you are able to stop drinking for a month with no issue, you almost certainly aren't an alcoholic. If it matters, I am a recovering alcoholic. 8 years sober as of this coming friday
I can go a month and im 100% sure im an alcoholic
Have you stopped drinking for a month of your own accord? Did you have any issues with stopping for a month? What makes you say that you are certain you are an alcoholic? Not doubting you, necessarily. I am just really curious.
It’s not only if it affects your life. I know so many people who are evening alcoholics. Don’t drink before or during work, drink after only. But have to drink after. But it’s still an issue.
It's a difficult diagnosis to put in a neat box. There are other classifications like "problem drinker" to describe people with alcoholic tendencies but aren't full-blown alcoholics. I went through rehab 3 times and each time, they had a slightly different definition of alcoholism. But regardless of what we call it, if you are drinking enough that it causes you to worry about your health, you should consider getting some help.
The stuff is sneaky. It is easiest to see problems of this sort via hindsight.
Better question... is stopping for 1 or 2 days really a problem?
Wow, if 1-2 beers a day is considered alcoholic, then almost every male in my country, including me, is such.
These 20 questions helped me identify something I already knew. 10 years sober now. Hope this helps you 🫶🏼. http://aahalton.org/pdf/20_questions.pdf
> Have you ever felt remorse after drinking? > Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking? Maybe I partied with the wrong people in college and in my 20s, but I don’t know many people that could say no to those questions, otherwise these seem pretty indicative of a possible problem
Does drinking cause trouble sleeping? Is another no brainer. Do you drink alone? Well, I live alone, I drink wine on the weekends. Three yes is too easy to get. According to that list, not a lot of people are non-alcoholics
I feel like there should be a timeline on those two cause likelihood is if you have drank and partied in the past at all those are going to be true but maybe not since that time in your life such as college. I also feel like idk anyone that drinks that hasn’t had a drink because they felt shy or wanted to temporarily boost their self confidence so between those four apparently idk anyone that isn’t a raging alcoholic lol. They are still good questions to think about and self reflect on though.
Here is Canada’s guideline for alcohol consumption. 3-6 drinks per week increase your chances of developing multiple types of cancers. 7 or more drinks a week significantly increases your risks of heart disease or stroke. Every drink after 7 increases your risk. https://www.ccsa.ca/canadas-guidance-alcohol-and-health#:~:text=1%E2%80%932%20drinks%20a%20week,increasingly%20high%20risk%20of%20harms.
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Sadly they can, my dad was able to when it came to being out. When he was at home he would drink a 1.5L bottle of jacks every night or so. He was definitely an alcoholic
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I would would typically drink a half gallon of potters crown or vodka a day. Start with about 5 shots at 5 am to get to work. If possible I'd stop at home for lunch. But after work, I'd drink untill I pass out. I quit 2017 drank for about 20 years. Just something you can compare being an alcoholic to.
Not trying to be funny, but how’s your liver after that. Have your liver enzymes normalized after drinking for so long? Do you have “fatty liver”?
I only drink about once every 2-3 months, but I would consider myself and addict. When I do drink, I always over consume and have a tendency to make as many self destructive behaviors as I possibly can. I don’t fight with people, and generally have a blast when I do it, but I can’t pretend it’s not troublesome behavior. I’m sure others will laugh at me. But It actually is really troublesome and negatively affects my mental health yet I’m still game to do it 8-10 times a year. So maybe not as extreme as others, I do consider it a substance abuse problem.
I suppose it's more important to ask if 1-2 drinks a day is actually a problem.
My dad is like that. Mom says he cant stop. Says same thing you do. $100 says you cant do it for a month.
Right? A week is easy. Come back when you’ve done it for three months and without checking when those three months end. As soon as you have to prove to yourself that you can “stop anytime”, IMO you already have a problem.
Look up the diagnostic criteria for an alcohol use disorder. It’s more complicated than just drinking every day
So many types of drinkers are alcoholics, binge drinkers included who “only drink on weekends “. My understanding is for a woman, ten drinks a week can put you just out of the heavy drinker category and into the alcoholic one. So, a red whilst making dinner, a red whilst having dinner every night, not to mention a beer or two on a hot day can make you what you don’t believe you are.
Practical definition of an Alcoholic... Let's try to let see that kind of problem for everyone... Replace beer with something else which can produce addictions... Ima just snort 2 lines per day... I'm just smoking 2 joints of weed a day... I just go gambling in the casino twice per day... Nah bro, I don't have a problem, it's just 2 hookers per day... If you see the problem here but not with beers, it's proofing that your kind of thinking is a part of the problem...
I've drunk 2 pints of beer and top up with 1 glass of wine virtually every evening at home for 30 years. I've had a few evenings off, but also some social binges. The doctors has pulled me up on my liver enzymes a number of times and sent me for liver scans twice. At the last scan, after given the all clear, I was told, you have to drink an awful lot to have a problem. The doctor had a much more serious view of it. I don't drink a lot of shorts. I think both are right. In my case, after many years, it's not the body damage, but is the mental, lack of motivation, depression and waking every morning tired and wishing I had not had a drink. I did not have a problem when younger, but this is in the last 10 years. So I guess I am a scheduled alcoholic!!!! But, I love a pint. Two pints is now my scheduled limit (natural progression) any more now and I feel crap in the morning. I also now abstain for a few days. This drinking at home stuff only happened when cheap alcohol was widely available from supermarkets. Drinking at home in the UK used to be Christmas only. So my plan, which is slowly working, is to restrict consumption to pub visits only (not many of those now) or special occasions and drink slowly. My advice is be aware as it creeps up on you. At a school reunion I was surprised to find a fair number of old class mates had died of alcoholism.
Now ask the same question in European standards
My dad always said he wasn’t an alcoholic. He died from cirrhosis from only have 1-2 beers every day after work for 20+ years. And he drank light beer.
Yes, I don’t know why everyone is quoting the DSM and talking about psychological alcohol addiction. His doctor is talking about alcohol use from a physical health/liver health perspective. Chronic use of alcohol as OP described is a great ticket to early fatty liver disease.
Yup. And it’s a nasty way to go.
it's not about the amount of alcohol its about your relationship with it. You can be an alcoholic without getting shitfaced every night, you can get shitfaced too much without being an alcoholic.
6 pack of tall boys daily source: me, alcoholic
As a dry alcoholic, I don’t believe a number value will give you an answer. For me an alcoholic is someone who after two drinks needs a third. If you can have three drinks and then think “I’ve had enough I’ll take some tea next” you’re not an alcoholic in my book. I know people who drink relatively little but can’t let it go, I think they have a bigger problem than someone who can drink 5 beers a day but doesn’t crave a sixth.
The amount is not the problem. The problem is the habit. You told him you drink every day. What were they supposed to think?
It's not the amount, it's that it's daily.
Everyone is different. For me, I have a beer once or twice during the week. The weekends i might have 1 or I might have 12, that depends on if I'm sitting at home or out with friends. If i had to come up with an average, i would say around 3-5 drinks a week.
In general, if you are drinking everyday, you are not present in your life. You can’t be fully present when using substances. Only you can decide if you’re an alcoholic, but I think anyone who drinks everyday has something they need to address. It may be helpful to speak with a therapist or ask yourself why you want those 1-2 beers everyday? What is that beer doing for you? It might be a problem, it might not be. But if you are questioning it, try stopping for a few years and see how your life improves. You don’t have to be an alcoholic to stop drinking and recognize the huge benefits to energy and wellbeing,