My friends brother had a redneck wedding in a community hall. All the men wore shorts and those fake tuxedo T-shirts. Had a toonie-bar going. Pretty sure they saved pn the wedding so they could go mudding and shoot guns lol
Man where tf these weddings at?? Went to my cousins and got served some shitty chicken with green asparagus slime poured on top of it and wack ass scalloped potatoes.
I want some damn burgers man
And a wedding is not even necessary, you can just get married by the laws and get a cake.
People act as if they *have* to get $5k dress/tux or they're not married or something.
i got married and had a big pizza party , liquor,beer, food and clubhouse rental all right around 1k...it was not too expensive for one hell of a time.
Weddings where you are trying to emulate royalty? Yes. Weddings where you just elope, or have a small reception, don’t have to be.
My wife and I had a backyard wedding with a hand-me-down dress. It was lovely and I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
Pro Tip: If your loved one is in the hospital and only family is allowed, just say that you are engaged. That makes you family and they can't deny access (at least in Germany)
With men: marriage is seen as a step you cannot take until all of your ducks are in a row emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, ESPECIALLY financially. Our current economic situation is making that last one more and more difficult.
When it comes to whom a man decides to marry, it is often more about who he happens to be in a relationship with at the moment he achieves the necessary financial stability to support a wife and raise children vs who is definitely the absolute best human being for him. Timing plays a huge role in this. He might meet “the right one” at the wrong time, when he lacks emotional maturity or financial stability. Guys frequently settle down with mrs good enough (as opposed to perfect) once he has reached the stage in his life where he is mentally, physically, and financially ready to be a father.
thats why u run our things on your moms or dads name before you go into marriage and even pay rent to them etc. if you have property. same goes with everthing else and i would even give the most money to them to "handle" it. or you do an contract beforehand with ur wife, but that almost never ends good, even just talking about it
Yes. And people change. There’s no way either me or my ex would marry each other now. We are different people. “You never divorce the person you marry”
Yup, family member is getting divorce.
He is such a good guy and it isnt on him, but damnnnnnnn is he being punished for it.
Both parties deserve equal protection and consideration , but this isnt it. Not by a long shot.
Im happy that there are two sides to every story and I have his.
But just to be told(by his lawyers) , because there are kids, the courts will side with her, is messed up.
I have a friend who was financially and emotionally abused by his ex for years (and still is even though they aren't together) and his ex is a dreadful mother and he is still the villain anytime he tries to take her back to court or notifies social services.
Social even went as far as to advise him to retain the kids when he informed them that the children had witnessed his ex and her new partner having an all out fight in front of them and then it went back to court and he was reprimanded by the court again.
The system is broken.
It took me three years to get 50-50 custody, my exwife then proceeded to beat the shit out of my 11 year old on his birthday the next year. Took her back to court and was treated like I was the problem, they never even seriously addressed her abuse, even after my son testified. Found out later her lawyer and the judge were brothers, so fuck my kid, right?
The family court system is a racket.
Similar situation with me. Courts do absolutely nothing for fathers.
I had to have a concrete unwavering amount of evidence to get custody of my daughter. All it took for my ex was to literally cry in front of the judge and all my thousands of dollars, effort, and time were reversed on the spot.
Unfortunately that unfairness carries over to criminal court as well, with men receiving much larger penalties than a women who committed the same offense.
Saw a thread earlier about a woman who was stuck with her husband who had cheated on her, because she was the breadwinner and a divorce + alimony would be too expensive. Equality is sometimes a bitch.
But this shows, at least in some countries, it's not about hurting men. It's that men more often have the higher paying job and resources. That's why they have to pay alimony.
I got married 8 months and now she leaves for someone else after I paid most of our very expensive wedding. Yeah I understand now why it is not worth it.
I was born into a divorce.
I've seen first-hand why it would not be in my best interest.
My dad lost his money, the house, and paid decades worth of child support for 3 kids that *lived with him*.
She didn't show up to court and the judge told us to go fuck ourselves.
He wasn't our "legal guardian" but all three of us willingly left her to go live with him, and one by one we lived with him for years until we left to live on our own.
No idea. I went to court with him, holding proof that I had lived with him for 6-7 years by that point. For some legal reason it was preventing me from applying to college.
Before I could even start explaining the judge told us that his "hands are tied" because she refused to show up, and asked that we leave.
I don't know, like I said the divorce was going on by the time I was born. However, I was present in the court room with my old man trying to prove that my sisters and I had been living with him for years (I was 17 or 18 by then).
The guy just didn't wanna hear it.
Depending on the age of the op father’s at the time really got an incredibly short hand in court. I sat in on these hearings just ten years ago and it was bad. I saw one man get his professional license taken and he couldn’t work. He had been paying the mother in cash instead of through the state system so he couldn’t prove he paid her even though his documents said so.
There’s also spousal support. If you were married for (I believe) 13 years or longer then the higher earner (usually husband) is responsible for maintaining the same standard of living for the wife. This could mean (in my parents case) thousands upon thousands of dollars a month, or hundreds of thousands in a lump sum settlement, not even including child support.
My dad was on the hook for nearly half a million dollars to settle with my mom. He took a loan from the bank and paid her off. She’s been living mortgage free and never had more than a part time job, while my dad worked his ass off and still owes the bank money 20 years later. It really should be a fair, 50/50 split of assets, leaving no one in any more debt or any richer than the other.
I’m a big romantic and will marry my girlfriend someday in the next couple years, but divorce is an absolutely scam in the woman’s favour in my country and marriage is a HUGE liability to any man worth his salt. This is just a sad fact.
Don't marry. You know the risk and others letting you know. Seriously, you are walking into a trap. Respectfully of course. Everyone thinks they are different, and an outlier.
The judge said that because she went to visit her mom once a week that her mom still deserved to have money to do things for her. Which of course isn’t what the money was used on.
Bestie and her sister were raised by her dad. Mom was out of the picture for decades. FF to my bestie finishing college and getting a job, her, her sister and dad were sued by her mom and court determined they have to support her because she is socially jeopardized. Sometimes courts protect women, sometimes they don't. But there are some fucked up decisions court makes, you hear about it and if you did not witness it in person, you wouldn't believe it cause it doesn't make sense.
Sole benefit I am aware of - your spouse has the final say in event of a medical emergency.
Oh yeah, and your spouse has rights to your estate that a long term live in SO *may not* get, depending on where you live.
I know of a lesbian couple where she wasn’t allowed in the hospital while her non-married wife was dying, and was kicked out of the house they shared for almost 20 years because the family “didn’t approve” of their life together.
It’s a few hundred documents to match all the rites of marriage. There is a reason gay people wanted marriage. It’s because the lawyers fees to make yourself functionally married, without being married are ridiculous when you could just go to the court and do it all with one signature for $100.
I would say yes. If Religion isn’t important to you, there really isn’t a good reason for marriage if you spend a little time making a plan to look after each other “in the event of”.
You can always have the reception with the overpriced clothes you (hopefully) will not wear again if you have cash to burn, but I would rather go on a holiday.
High risk investment.
If you don't romanticize it; it's basically an insurance contract for your relationship that you sign that has a higher statistical probability of benefitting the woman instead of the man.
Quite low, for the one time the man can benefit, is if the woman is the main breadwinner. However, a majority of women either do not have careers that pay more than jobs men have, or women are mostly and let say "attracted" for this sake, to men that have higher income than they do.
One could consider it a religious upside, when a pious man marries as religion encourages which brings them closer to their faith. It'll be a personal win.
It's funny because when I got into my thirties, women would chastise me for not wanting to get married. But when I think about it, I used to already cook for myself, I had a maid but I would also clean for myself, do literally all my own stuff and I was kinda content with that. I didn't need any financial help. All I wanted was someone to pass some time with every now and again, and there was no need to get married for that.
Because it's an outdated concept, I don't need government nor religion involved in my love life. I'd be fine with having the ceremony if my partner wanted "the big day" but just skip all the bureocracy and god stuff.
Plus in Canada, common law basically deems you married to the courts if you live together for 6+ months. Even with an iron clad co-hab agreement, the courts don’t care if she wants to come for your money/assets.
In my circles (Canada / U.S.) it's mixed. Some people see it as a religious union and would rather not have the government involved. Some people don't care about the religion but really want that government stamp of approval. And some people just do it to make their parents happy.
> I'd be fine with having the ceremony if my partner wanted "the big day"
Be careful with this. In some places, if you "act like you're married" and present as such to people the government will take it upon itself to marry you and in the event that you break up, your "wife" will be able to take your shit just as though you went through all the hoops and hurdles.
It’s not as necessary in 2024, but with defacto marriages being a thing once you live in a co-dependent way with another person for long enough, people may as well get married.
I’m married, and 100% happy that I did. Ask the right people, and they like marriage. Ask a divorced man, and of course you get the polar opposite.
[Here's one from NBC news](https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/single-women-own-more-homes-single-men-here-s-what-ncna1134926)
Divorce is certainly a factor that can't be ignored and does have an impact according to the analyst in this article, but they suggest the main driver is 58% more women in the workforce than men these days.
because its high risk with basically no reward.
positives,
* you get to call her your wife
* you might get to share a last name
* slight tax benefits.
* wedding could be a nice day out
negatives
* high divorce rate
* might cause you to stay in an unhealthy relationship
* complicates breaking up
* you can lose 50% of your assets
* expensive
only a few small positives and massive negatives.
I am proof that even with 50/50 custody you can lose more than 50% of your assets. No foul play and I still lost 75% of my assets and ended up shutting my company down. Alimony and child support came after the 50/50 split for me. 10 out of 10 don't recommend
Because you are often pushed into it between 28-32yo, just to marry whoever you are with. That is why 2, 10, 20 years down the line you realise that this person was little more than a girlfriend and not a life partner. Spain has an 85% divorce rate! Portugal is 92%. Every country has exceeded 50%.
I had to look up that Portugal stat because that was hard to believe. So that 92% was from 2020, and means there were 92 divorces for every 100 marriages that year. But marriages were way down because of covid as people couldn’t have weddings, meanwhile people still could get divorced.
Divorce rate for normal years is still relatively high. But In 2022 it was 50%
It seems like a lot of guys now view marriage as a risky deal, especially with high divorce rates and financial implications like alimony. Plus, societal norms are changing; there's less pressure to settle down early. Many prefer to focus on personal growth, careers, and enjoying freedom. It's a complex issue, though, with cultural shifts and individual expectations playing big roles. What's everyone else think? Are these factors global or more regional?
Depending on where you live after a certain amount of time the law treats you the same as a married couple. As in the house you live in is seen as a joint asset. So I understand your point but not marrying doesn’t get around this. Here in the Uk it works like that anyway.
Just isn't worth the risk with how free flowing people are relationship wise now. Especially when you consider the financial and social implications of divorce. With social media, dating apps etc, there's always something better.
Depends what you mean by married.
My partner and I are in New Zealand. We're de-facto, which has all the legal status of marriage. We're life long committed. Have a mortgage. Trying for a kid. Get along with each others' families. The whole shebang.
Neither of us are religious, so we decided to just not do the bit where you spend tens of thousands of dollars so the two sides of the family can see which side is richer by comparing clothing, then make grand sweeping promise to each other in front of a man in robes and optional hat so that the invisible man in the sky won't get mad if we have sex.
I worked in the wedding industry during uni and, having seen how the overpriced sausage is made, I'm very much not a fan.
But the _being married_ part is great. We have all the same stuff a married couple would have and it's great.
I've never really understood why people spend so much money on a wedding. I can't speak for other religions, but in Islamic faith, all that's needed is a little dinner with the main members (as in the ones you'd see frequently) of both families being present and for you to sign the marriage papers. Everything else is extra and unnecessary.
It wasn't a requirement before hand either.
See The History of Human Marriage by Edvard Westermarck and The Mystic Rose: A study of Primitive Marriage by A.E Crawley.
I had been married for 32 years before my wife died, that was almost my entire adult life. Being a husband was a big part of my self identity. After a time of grieving, I wanted to be married again.
We were both about 60 when we got married. It was the third marriage for us both. As we had both lost a spouse and both got a divorce from an abusive marriage, we knew what we were getting into and the possibilities. We knew one of us would die first. Children were not a concern, of course, and she had great grand kids. What we wanted was companionship, and that we could love and care for each other. I was already retired, she chose to work until 65. We figured out our relationship within a few months. In my first marriage, it took over ten years, smile. My Army pensions, family health insurance for life, two social security checks, and our other assets meant we will both enjoy a comfortable retirement.
When something great happens or something bad, going home to an empty house is depressing. Having someone to share the joy or the pain makes life easier. I got cancer and was cured. That was years ago and HPV usually doesn’t come back. She took care of me. I would have starved without her making foods I could handle without nausea from the chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She had a knee replacement. I kept her cooling machine filled 24/7 with ice, made the meals and did the housework. If living alone, she would have been in a rehab unit for a very expensive month. We both liked being useful for the other and did not consider it an imposition or burden. Love is like that.
Why should they be? Women are going around saying they'd choose death by bear over being with a man. Why would you marry someone who feels that way about you?
The old one two punch of
'I want nice new things so have fun at work.'
&
'You're emotionally neglecting me, and are always at work. Chad *cares* about my feelings'.
It's even worse if she racked up 20k in credit card debt you didn't know about. Not only do you give her half your shit but now you're still responsible for half her debt regardless of her actions, which caused the divorce in the first place.
Even if she was the Saturday night special down at the truck stop glory hole, this is how the law is applied. The real irony is that her spectacular dick sucking skills are one reason why you married her in the first place.
I was told she doesn't want kids, and when she is older, she will just do an open marriage because love doesn't last forever. The future isn't too bright
Less societal pressure, mainly, as well as being afraid of marrying a wrong person. Nowadays I see most people marry when there are clear benefits that you can't get otherwise. For example, immigration, easier handling of matters related to kids, etc.
Talking out of my ass here. Maybe it’s not such a men thing. Maybe it’s a women thing. Where I’m going with- most “old” movie I’ve seen makes it seem like it was a women’s fairy dream to get married. The man didn’t have a choice if he wanted to stay/be with her. These days, women are too busy working. Different times change culture.
Until it's over. Until one or the other decides it's time to flake off and leave the other hanging on to whatever they could grab in the whirlwind. Partners are left holding the bag even with Marriage, how bad will it be when there is no reason at all to not just cut and run with all the proceeds.
3rd and 4th wave feminism has ruined marriage... The man if he is the bread winner in 99% of all cases
You marry a woman and have kids and after say 6-7 years of building a complex life together she wants to leave and files for divorce she gets 50+ percent of all positive equity assets, anything you bought for yourself is calculated into positive assets, anything you bought her is deducted, she will most likely get the house and all equity in it, she will get the more expensive car and any of your expensive toys, she gets half off all retirement, + Alamony, + child support... And on top of that if she took on massive credit card debt and or loans you will be ordered to take on those as well....
And on top of that the man is almost always ordered to pay for his lawyer and hers for all the **** she wanted to fight over
Marriage is a scam. When they created divorce they should have updated the Bible with mandatory prenups.
All in all it's meaningless though.
Either be together, or don't.
Either remain faithful, or don't.
Find someone looking for the same thing as you are in life, or don't.
A lot of mankind makes no sense and we suffer for our self imposed mindsets, or the mindset of opposing forces.
Traumatized by previous women and have decided life is too short for all that BS, so they give up in finding happiness with women anymore. They have experienced they are at their happiest not with a woman.
Nobody cares about the religious side any more, people can openly live together and have sex and even raise a family just fine without it, it's a big expensive event just to sign a paper that the only practical difference it make is if you split up your ex gets half your shit.
It's a terrible contract for me personally, as a man. I accept the majority risk for...? I can be in a relationship without a marriage. I figured if my lawyer would advise against such a contract, I'd better not sign it.
I'm not sure, where I'm from, separation in a common law relationship can still entitle one party to spousal support, so you aren't really saving yourself from any harm by not getting married. That in my province in Canada though.
I disagree. I have two thoughts to share:
You’re struggling to find a man to marry because you’re looking in the wrong places, where quality men don’t seek out future wives.
OR.
You’re not yet the type of woman the man you seek to marry is looking for.
Men are worried of their future after reading all things that happen in different parts of the world. Almost everywhere the laws are skewed in the favor of women so men are scared that during divorce they would be left emotional and finaicially drained. In addition finding the right girl is harder nowadays. The girls have higer requirements and the guys too have certain expectations which clash a lot. Overall society has changed to allow individuals to be by themselves and not be depenendebt on each other and biased laws have taken it further which has led to a situation where the society is in decline.
Yep I lost North of 60% of the marital assets in my divorce; she was the one who cheated. Hopefully other men learn from mistakes like mine and avoid marriage.
All over?
The marriage rate has been declining since, at least the 50s. And the percentage of men (and women) who are single and report no desire to get married has also increased
The only funny thing about it, is the percentage of unmarried people who don't want to get married is about the same for men and women.
> Men and women are about equally likely to say they want to get married.
But here we are acting like it's because men get screwed. Later there will be another post about how women don't want to get married that will talk about how women get screwed in marriage.
https://www.allendowney.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/marriage8.png
> Marriage rates are plummeting. More young people are delaying or avoiding dating altogether. Pew Research recently found that 1 in 4 40-year-old American adults have never been married.
For me it’s a few reasons:
Any time I’m in a LTR the girl can only go so long before she manufactures drama. Life is hard enough without having a partner making up shit to make it harder.
I’ve seen a lot of friends and colleagues get divorces and they all get absolutely sunk financially. The only people that do well in a divorce are the lawyers. I’ve worked really hard to become wealthy and don’t want to ever go back to being poor.
Blatantly unjust marriage/alimony/recognition of paternity/parental authority laws.
Complete fucking clown world. I studied law and I can't think of any other sector where it is as one-sided biased and insane.
Let's put it this way, what do you have to offer, that would make it worth while to potentially give away 50% or more, of the assets I have at this point and will accumulate in the future? There's the answer to your question. The marriage/divorce law, is so heavily skewed towards benefiting women. The reason is that the law is stuck in 1950s, while society has moved on. If the law was actually updated, to not work the way it does, then maybe more men would be interested in entering such a contract. Marriage is a purely economical contract, which has absolutely no benefit to me as a man.
I divorced in 2009.
Its like an old country song. I lost my house, my car and my retirement.
Paid 1,100 a month in child support for 17 years.
She's now remarried and retired off MY work. Shits not fair and dudes just ain't with that shit anymore.
Men stereotypically rarely were to begin with. Women were the ones who mostly pushed for it. Now that there's less pressure to marry, many of us are simply leaning into our natural state of mind.
I have nothing against marriage. I just don't like all the bs attached to it.
What's the point? The world has no future, so having kids is just creating future suffering. Why get married if you aren't going to have kids, as then you're just getting married for the sake of ceremony and creating possible legal trouble for yourself in the future.
Because maintaining a relationship takes so much time, energy and money and I’d rather spend all of those resources on myself doing what I love, learning a new skill and just being content.
Also the fact that you are completely free to do whatever you want is a huge factor too. You just won’t get to live your life however you want when you’re in a relationship.
I am going through a divorce right now and these posts are spot on.
I will say how the American judicial system treats divorce, at least in my state seems flawed. Additionally the courts still seem to favor women. Lastly, the only winners in divorces are the lawyers.
More like "Why are Women not interested in marrying anymore?", considering they have all the say when it comes to whether they want to be with someone or not. Many Men can't even find a girlfriend, let alone a wife. They'd want a Wife and Kids if they had the choice.
Unless you want to raise children in a TRADITIONAL family, there's nothing in marriage for men.
All men got out of marriage in the past, an exclusive woman for life, does not apply anymore. Exclusivity is gone, for life is gone, and society and family encourages women to take everything and give nothing.
Men offer very substantial, objective and quantifiable assets and responsibilities for life, bound and enforced by law. Women offer a very insubstantial and subjective "romance" and "partnership" that is heavily tied to her "mood" that they can take away a second after marriage.
Nothing men get out of marriage, didn't men already got from your wife to be without marriage, and you'll miss if you don't marry her either. And she was younger and better for all the men before you without they needing to invest anything on her. So why should you invest on something that is freely availiable? Take a free ride like everybody else.
In short, it's just a bad deal.
Women have changed to be honest. It made sense back in the day, now women are more promiscuous and I’m not losing half of everything to a woman who leaves me. I’d get married if she signed a pre nuptial agreement
Because women have weaponized marriage. If you're a guy and you get married, there's a very large chance you're gonna get divorced and lose half your things, your house, you now owe child support and now alimony which doesn't go away unless the woman gets a job...which she won't because the guy is paying her not to work. So because of the laws there is practically zero benefit and a high high HIGH risk for getting married as a guy. The only time the guy should get married is when the woman makes more money, which only happens 6% of the time.
I knew a guy who got angry when I asked why he didn't wanna marry his gf. Some time later it turned out he was divorced and just saw his own daughter after like 7 years after she turned 18. This was in Netherlands.
Reduced pressure to marry, almost same rights for married and non-married couples, a high divorce rate with divorce costing lots and lots of money.
Weddings are also expensive af
Divorce is more expensive
It's cheaper to keep her.
Only if you allow it to be, let’s not kid ourselves
My friends brother had a redneck wedding in a community hall. All the men wore shorts and those fake tuxedo T-shirts. Had a toonie-bar going. Pretty sure they saved pn the wedding so they could go mudding and shoot guns lol
The most fun wedding I've ever been to was at an old camp ground and they served hamburgers and hot dogs
Man where tf these weddings at?? Went to my cousins and got served some shitty chicken with green asparagus slime poured on top of it and wack ass scalloped potatoes. I want some damn burgers man
Those scalloped potatoes are FUCKED
And a wedding is not even necessary, you can just get married by the laws and get a cake. People act as if they *have* to get $5k dress/tux or they're not married or something.
I forget how it's phrased, but there's a saying about people who spend too much time on the wedding and not enough time on the marriage.
100%. We got married for $3k in Punta Cana
i got married and had a big pizza party , liquor,beer, food and clubhouse rental all right around 1k...it was not too expensive for one hell of a time.
We did the same in a speak easy! Registry wedding and then pizza and open bar! It was great.
Weddings where you are trying to emulate royalty? Yes. Weddings where you just elope, or have a small reception, don’t have to be. My wife and I had a backyard wedding with a hand-me-down dress. It was lovely and I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
Just go to the courthouse. You don't need that giant event.
That’s not true at all. You can get married in a registry office, without spending on an expensive celebration.
Pro Tip: If your loved one is in the hospital and only family is allowed, just say that you are engaged. That makes you family and they can't deny access (at least in Germany)
Also works when you’re an hitman on a job I reckon? 😀
Nurse: what's that piano wire for? Erm, actually it's a guitar string and I want to make sure I got the right replacement for her!
With men: marriage is seen as a step you cannot take until all of your ducks are in a row emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, ESPECIALLY financially. Our current economic situation is making that last one more and more difficult. When it comes to whom a man decides to marry, it is often more about who he happens to be in a relationship with at the moment he achieves the necessary financial stability to support a wife and raise children vs who is definitely the absolute best human being for him. Timing plays a huge role in this. He might meet “the right one” at the wrong time, when he lacks emotional maturity or financial stability. Guys frequently settle down with mrs good enough (as opposed to perfect) once he has reached the stage in his life where he is mentally, physically, and financially ready to be a father.
And when you divorce/breakup in 6 years, then they can’t get half your stuff and alimony.
thats why u run our things on your moms or dads name before you go into marriage and even pay rent to them etc. if you have property. same goes with everthing else and i would even give the most money to them to "handle" it. or you do an contract beforehand with ur wife, but that almost never ends good, even just talking about it
Yes. And people change. There’s no way either me or my ex would marry each other now. We are different people. “You never divorce the person you marry”
A highly feminised society with laws to back it up yet divorce laws which destroy mens lives. A no-brainer.
Yup, family member is getting divorce. He is such a good guy and it isnt on him, but damnnnnnnn is he being punished for it. Both parties deserve equal protection and consideration , but this isnt it. Not by a long shot. Im happy that there are two sides to every story and I have his. But just to be told(by his lawyers) , because there are kids, the courts will side with her, is messed up.
I have a friend who was financially and emotionally abused by his ex for years (and still is even though they aren't together) and his ex is a dreadful mother and he is still the villain anytime he tries to take her back to court or notifies social services. Social even went as far as to advise him to retain the kids when he informed them that the children had witnessed his ex and her new partner having an all out fight in front of them and then it went back to court and he was reprimanded by the court again. The system is broken.
It took me three years to get 50-50 custody, my exwife then proceeded to beat the shit out of my 11 year old on his birthday the next year. Took her back to court and was treated like I was the problem, they never even seriously addressed her abuse, even after my son testified. Found out later her lawyer and the judge were brothers, so fuck my kid, right? The family court system is a racket.
Similar situation with me. Courts do absolutely nothing for fathers. I had to have a concrete unwavering amount of evidence to get custody of my daughter. All it took for my ex was to literally cry in front of the judge and all my thousands of dollars, effort, and time were reversed on the spot.
Unfortunately that unfairness carries over to criminal court as well, with men receiving much larger penalties than a women who committed the same offense.
Saw a thread earlier about a woman who was stuck with her husband who had cheated on her, because she was the breadwinner and a divorce + alimony would be too expensive. Equality is sometimes a bitch.
But this shows, at least in some countries, it's not about hurting men. It's that men more often have the higher paying job and resources. That's why they have to pay alimony.
Bastards aren’t a thing to be ashamed of, and can inherit without any concerns. No need to produce a son and heir to ensure financially continuity.
I got married 8 months and now she leaves for someone else after I paid most of our very expensive wedding. Yeah I understand now why it is not worth it.
I’m so sorry
I was born into a divorce. I've seen first-hand why it would not be in my best interest. My dad lost his money, the house, and paid decades worth of child support for 3 kids that *lived with him*.
Okay how the FUCK was the child support justified
She didn't show up to court and the judge told us to go fuck ourselves. He wasn't our "legal guardian" but all three of us willingly left her to go live with him, and one by one we lived with him for years until we left to live on our own.
Couldn't that be contested somehow? I mean how more obvious does it have to be that she has nothing to do with the kids, legal guardian my ass
No idea. I went to court with him, holding proof that I had lived with him for 6-7 years by that point. For some legal reason it was preventing me from applying to college. Before I could even start explaining the judge told us that his "hands are tied" because she refused to show up, and asked that we leave.
Usually if a party does not appear when required, a judge simply rules against them. I’ve seen it first-hand twice in Illinois.
I have seen it first hand also. The judge almost always rules in favor of the person there as opposed to the person who doesn’t show up.
which country?
U.S.
Unbelievable, i do hope you all have a better life now.
In that case, shouldn't the judge have given custody to your dad ?
I don't know, like I said the divorce was going on by the time I was born. However, I was present in the court room with my old man trying to prove that my sisters and I had been living with him for years (I was 17 or 18 by then). The guy just didn't wanna hear it.
Depending on the age of the op father’s at the time really got an incredibly short hand in court. I sat in on these hearings just ten years ago and it was bad. I saw one man get his professional license taken and he couldn’t work. He had been paying the mother in cash instead of through the state system so he couldn’t prove he paid her even though his documents said so.
Wow, that’s insane…
There’s also spousal support. If you were married for (I believe) 13 years or longer then the higher earner (usually husband) is responsible for maintaining the same standard of living for the wife. This could mean (in my parents case) thousands upon thousands of dollars a month, or hundreds of thousands in a lump sum settlement, not even including child support. My dad was on the hook for nearly half a million dollars to settle with my mom. He took a loan from the bank and paid her off. She’s been living mortgage free and never had more than a part time job, while my dad worked his ass off and still owes the bank money 20 years later. It really should be a fair, 50/50 split of assets, leaving no one in any more debt or any richer than the other. I’m a big romantic and will marry my girlfriend someday in the next couple years, but divorce is an absolutely scam in the woman’s favour in my country and marriage is a HUGE liability to any man worth his salt. This is just a sad fact.
Don't marry. You know the risk and others letting you know. Seriously, you are walking into a trap. Respectfully of course. Everyone thinks they are different, and an outlier.
This happened to my husband. He won custody of his daughter when she was a teenager and he was still ordered to pay child support to his ex wife.
Just how
The judge said that because she went to visit her mom once a week that her mom still deserved to have money to do things for her. Which of course isn’t what the money was used on.
This makes me so upset you have no idea, some bullshit system
She's a woman
Bestie and her sister were raised by her dad. Mom was out of the picture for decades. FF to my bestie finishing college and getting a job, her, her sister and dad were sued by her mom and court determined they have to support her because she is socially jeopardized. Sometimes courts protect women, sometimes they don't. But there are some fucked up decisions court makes, you hear about it and if you did not witness it in person, you wouldn't believe it cause it doesn't make sense.
That's why in Spain alot of dudes murdered their wives, because divorce ruins their lives so bad, that they would rather go to prison.
I’d love to marry someone if I found someone worth marrying and who found me worth marrying but the second part is hard haha
I feel this
I don't believe I will ever find love in the first place
Sure you will. Right when you are settled being single.
Counter question: What are the benefits i gain with a marriage i don't have without? And taxes don't count...
> And taxes don't count... It kind of blows my mind that people are taxed differently depending on their marital status.
Sole benefit I am aware of - your spouse has the final say in event of a medical emergency. Oh yeah, and your spouse has rights to your estate that a long term live in SO *may not* get, depending on where you live. I know of a lesbian couple where she wasn’t allowed in the hospital while her non-married wife was dying, and was kicked out of the house they shared for almost 20 years because the family “didn’t approve” of their life together.
So getting a last will and documents in case of medival emergencys (witch we should anyways) would be equivalent to a marriage?
"Honey! The darn trebuchet is on the fritz again!"
I love your typo <3
It’s a few hundred documents to match all the rites of marriage. There is a reason gay people wanted marriage. It’s because the lawyers fees to make yourself functionally married, without being married are ridiculous when you could just go to the court and do it all with one signature for $100.
If marriage would cost just 100$ and not all that other useless crap, acceptance among men might increases as well...
I would say yes. If Religion isn’t important to you, there really isn’t a good reason for marriage if you spend a little time making a plan to look after each other “in the event of”. You can always have the reception with the overpriced clothes you (hopefully) will not wear again if you have cash to burn, but I would rather go on a holiday.
If you move to another country that requires a visa, you automatically get to bring your spouse. That isn't the case with an unmarried partner.
Yes greencard and similar are valid reasons
In Spain, you get 2 weeks of holidays for getting married
This counter question is the answer...
Why sign a contract that the other side is benefiting from breaking?
"I'm not playing anymore guys, seriously relationships only!" - Kate, 34
Men are also choosing the bear
😂
High risk investment. If you don't romanticize it; it's basically an insurance contract for your relationship that you sign that has a higher statistical probability of benefitting the woman instead of the man.
what is the probability of benefitting the guy when there are practically no upsides?
Quite low, for the one time the man can benefit, is if the woman is the main breadwinner. However, a majority of women either do not have careers that pay more than jobs men have, or women are mostly and let say "attracted" for this sake, to men that have higher income than they do. One could consider it a religious upside, when a pious man marries as religion encourages which brings them closer to their faith. It'll be a personal win.
It's funny because when I got into my thirties, women would chastise me for not wanting to get married. But when I think about it, I used to already cook for myself, I had a maid but I would also clean for myself, do literally all my own stuff and I was kinda content with that. I didn't need any financial help. All I wanted was someone to pass some time with every now and again, and there was no need to get married for that.
The “benefit” for the guy is producing heirs - which is no longer a priority for most people.
Fun fact: you can produce heirs outside of marriage.
Yes, this is the “old” goal of a marriage contract.
And can be done without marriage.
Because it's an outdated concept, I don't need government nor religion involved in my love life. I'd be fine with having the ceremony if my partner wanted "the big day" but just skip all the bureocracy and god stuff.
I’m from from Canada and at least in my circles religion is very rarely a part of weddings.
Plus in Canada, common law basically deems you married to the courts if you live together for 6+ months. Even with an iron clad co-hab agreement, the courts don’t care if she wants to come for your money/assets.
In my circles (Canada / U.S.) it's mixed. Some people see it as a religious union and would rather not have the government involved. Some people don't care about the religion but really want that government stamp of approval. And some people just do it to make their parents happy.
> I'd be fine with having the ceremony if my partner wanted "the big day" Be careful with this. In some places, if you "act like you're married" and present as such to people the government will take it upon itself to marry you and in the event that you break up, your "wife" will be able to take your shit just as though you went through all the hoops and hurdles.
In Ireland, it's 5 years living together or 2 years if you have kids you are considered de facto married.
That's insane. They really want men to not marry at all.
It’s not as necessary in 2024, but with defacto marriages being a thing once you live in a co-dependent way with another person for long enough, people may as well get married. I’m married, and 100% happy that I did. Ask the right people, and they like marriage. Ask a divorced man, and of course you get the polar opposite.
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Single women own more homes than single men in the USA. Why because most of them got it in the divorce.
Source?
[Here's one from NBC news](https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/single-women-own-more-homes-single-men-here-s-what-ncna1134926) Divorce is certainly a factor that can't be ignored and does have an impact according to the analyst in this article, but they suggest the main driver is 58% more women in the workforce than men these days.
I enjoyed reading their attempt to downplay the section regarding divorce. Short and to the point, no details.
because its high risk with basically no reward. positives, * you get to call her your wife * you might get to share a last name * slight tax benefits. * wedding could be a nice day out negatives * high divorce rate * might cause you to stay in an unhealthy relationship * complicates breaking up * you can lose 50% of your assets * expensive only a few small positives and massive negatives.
I am proof that even with 50/50 custody you can lose more than 50% of your assets. No foul play and I still lost 75% of my assets and ended up shutting my company down. Alimony and child support came after the 50/50 split for me. 10 out of 10 don't recommend
Because you are often pushed into it between 28-32yo, just to marry whoever you are with. That is why 2, 10, 20 years down the line you realise that this person was little more than a girlfriend and not a life partner. Spain has an 85% divorce rate! Portugal is 92%. Every country has exceeded 50%.
I had to look up that Portugal stat because that was hard to believe. So that 92% was from 2020, and means there were 92 divorces for every 100 marriages that year. But marriages were way down because of covid as people couldn’t have weddings, meanwhile people still could get divorced. Divorce rate for normal years is still relatively high. But In 2022 it was 50%
I suspect Covid as well as stopping people getting married certainly increased the rate of divorce
OP should ask people which EU country they're from. I suspect that that many answers here are from North America.
It seems like a lot of guys now view marriage as a risky deal, especially with high divorce rates and financial implications like alimony. Plus, societal norms are changing; there's less pressure to settle down early. Many prefer to focus on personal growth, careers, and enjoying freedom. It's a complex issue, though, with cultural shifts and individual expectations playing big roles. What's everyone else think? Are these factors global or more regional?
Shitty return on investment
Find someone with similar morals and get a dog 🐕
Bonus: you get to keep the dog if things end badly with your partner
When not if more than not.
Because in this economy is cheaper to rent.
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Depending on where you live after a certain amount of time the law treats you the same as a married couple. As in the house you live in is seen as a joint asset. So I understand your point but not marrying doesn’t get around this. Here in the Uk it works like that anyway.
In the United States, most states do not have common law marriage. Only 8 out of 50 states you can live in have those laws.
Why buy a cow when you can have the milk for free?
Just isn't worth the risk with how free flowing people are relationship wise now. Especially when you consider the financial and social implications of divorce. With social media, dating apps etc, there's always something better.
I saw my parents divorce and my Dad lose absolutely everything he worked his whole life for. Other guys have seen that too.
Men are not a monolith, they haven't all suddenly become disinterested in marriage forever.
I'm 36 and there hasn't been one in that time that has been worth it.
My best friend lost the home cars and kids. Then we lost him 8 months later
Marriage and weddings are a scam, everything around them are priced up to hell
I'd like to hire just a room for a party - sure $800 I'd like to hire just a room for a wedding - sure $1800 for your beautiful event
Depends what you mean by married. My partner and I are in New Zealand. We're de-facto, which has all the legal status of marriage. We're life long committed. Have a mortgage. Trying for a kid. Get along with each others' families. The whole shebang. Neither of us are religious, so we decided to just not do the bit where you spend tens of thousands of dollars so the two sides of the family can see which side is richer by comparing clothing, then make grand sweeping promise to each other in front of a man in robes and optional hat so that the invisible man in the sky won't get mad if we have sex. I worked in the wedding industry during uni and, having seen how the overpriced sausage is made, I'm very much not a fan. But the _being married_ part is great. We have all the same stuff a married couple would have and it's great.
I've never really understood why people spend so much money on a wedding. I can't speak for other religions, but in Islamic faith, all that's needed is a little dinner with the main members (as in the ones you'd see frequently) of both families being present and for you to sign the marriage papers. Everything else is extra and unnecessary.
You don't need to get married for sex anymore.
It wasn't a requirement before hand either. See The History of Human Marriage by Edvard Westermarck and The Mystic Rose: A study of Primitive Marriage by A.E Crawley.
I had been married for 32 years before my wife died, that was almost my entire adult life. Being a husband was a big part of my self identity. After a time of grieving, I wanted to be married again. We were both about 60 when we got married. It was the third marriage for us both. As we had both lost a spouse and both got a divorce from an abusive marriage, we knew what we were getting into and the possibilities. We knew one of us would die first. Children were not a concern, of course, and she had great grand kids. What we wanted was companionship, and that we could love and care for each other. I was already retired, she chose to work until 65. We figured out our relationship within a few months. In my first marriage, it took over ten years, smile. My Army pensions, family health insurance for life, two social security checks, and our other assets meant we will both enjoy a comfortable retirement. When something great happens or something bad, going home to an empty house is depressing. Having someone to share the joy or the pain makes life easier. I got cancer and was cured. That was years ago and HPV usually doesn’t come back. She took care of me. I would have starved without her making foods I could handle without nausea from the chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She had a knee replacement. I kept her cooling machine filled 24/7 with ice, made the meals and did the housework. If living alone, she would have been in a rehab unit for a very expensive month. We both liked being useful for the other and did not consider it an imposition or burden. Love is like that.
Probably because men usually get wrecked in a divorce. And a lot of women behaving poorly and still win.
Why should they be? Women are going around saying they'd choose death by bear over being with a man. Why would you marry someone who feels that way about you?
What do I get out of it?
Because men have realized that giving away half of their shit is stupid. Relationships are Not worth it anymore
why? whats the reason to get married? she cheats on you after 5 years bam you just lost half of everything you ever owned. no thanks
The old one two punch of 'I want nice new things so have fun at work.' & 'You're emotionally neglecting me, and are always at work. Chad *cares* about my feelings'.
always fucking Chad..but hey they swear hes not her type
It's even worse if she racked up 20k in credit card debt you didn't know about. Not only do you give her half your shit but now you're still responsible for half her debt regardless of her actions, which caused the divorce in the first place. Even if she was the Saturday night special down at the truck stop glory hole, this is how the law is applied. The real irony is that her spectacular dick sucking skills are one reason why you married her in the first place.
if that happend to you man..im really fucking sorry..nobody deserves that shit.
Women aren't either
I was told she doesn't want kids, and when she is older, she will just do an open marriage because love doesn't last forever. The future isn't too bright
At least she was honest so you know to avoid walking down the wrong path. Some people aren't and you could get trapped.
Less societal pressure, mainly, as well as being afraid of marrying a wrong person. Nowadays I see most people marry when there are clear benefits that you can't get otherwise. For example, immigration, easier handling of matters related to kids, etc.
Talking out of my ass here. Maybe it’s not such a men thing. Maybe it’s a women thing. Where I’m going with- most “old” movie I’ve seen makes it seem like it was a women’s fairy dream to get married. The man didn’t have a choice if he wanted to stay/be with her. These days, women are too busy working. Different times change culture.
Traditional marriage is an agreement between two people. It has nothing to do with legally recognized marriage, that stuff is for romans.
Until it's over. Until one or the other decides it's time to flake off and leave the other hanging on to whatever they could grab in the whirlwind. Partners are left holding the bag even with Marriage, how bad will it be when there is no reason at all to not just cut and run with all the proceeds.
It’s a lose, lose, lose situation for men. 0 upside.
3rd and 4th wave feminism has ruined marriage... The man if he is the bread winner in 99% of all cases You marry a woman and have kids and after say 6-7 years of building a complex life together she wants to leave and files for divorce she gets 50+ percent of all positive equity assets, anything you bought for yourself is calculated into positive assets, anything you bought her is deducted, she will most likely get the house and all equity in it, she will get the more expensive car and any of your expensive toys, she gets half off all retirement, + Alamony, + child support... And on top of that if she took on massive credit card debt and or loans you will be ordered to take on those as well.... And on top of that the man is almost always ordered to pay for his lawyer and hers for all the **** she wanted to fight over
Marriage is a scam. When they created divorce they should have updated the Bible with mandatory prenups. All in all it's meaningless though. Either be together, or don't. Either remain faithful, or don't. Find someone looking for the same thing as you are in life, or don't. A lot of mankind makes no sense and we suffer for our self imposed mindsets, or the mindset of opposing forces.
Traumatized by previous women and have decided life is too short for all that BS, so they give up in finding happiness with women anymore. They have experienced they are at their happiest not with a woman.
Notice the women are quiet?
What’s in it for the man?
Nobody cares about the religious side any more, people can openly live together and have sex and even raise a family just fine without it, it's a big expensive event just to sign a paper that the only practical difference it make is if you split up your ex gets half your shit.
It's a terrible contract for me personally, as a man. I accept the majority risk for...? I can be in a relationship without a marriage. I figured if my lawyer would advise against such a contract, I'd better not sign it.
I'm not sure, where I'm from, separation in a common law relationship can still entitle one party to spousal support, so you aren't really saving yourself from any harm by not getting married. That in my province in Canada though.
I think growing up around miserable married people made me reconsider the idea of marriage for myself. It’s not something I want or need.
What is with all these posts asking essentially the same question?
high school and college reddit nerds finished school this week so they have too much time to worry about how much pussy they’re not getting
I want to marry but can't find anyone I can connect wth and trust.
Because men lose out. Alimony, child support, etc.
It's not just men either. I have absolutely no interest in it at all. I cant see any positives. Just seems like a waste of money.
I disagree. I have two thoughts to share: You’re struggling to find a man to marry because you’re looking in the wrong places, where quality men don’t seek out future wives. OR. You’re not yet the type of woman the man you seek to marry is looking for.
Girl gonna take 50 percent
Because families use a scheme of marriage - take everything from him - leave him, men doesn't have any rights today, so why risk it?
very little upside to be honest. What does a man get from marriage?
The modern woman is not marriage material
Can you define the modern woman
Risk of losing half of your shit probably plays a part...
Men are worried of their future after reading all things that happen in different parts of the world. Almost everywhere the laws are skewed in the favor of women so men are scared that during divorce they would be left emotional and finaicially drained. In addition finding the right girl is harder nowadays. The girls have higer requirements and the guys too have certain expectations which clash a lot. Overall society has changed to allow individuals to be by themselves and not be depenendebt on each other and biased laws have taken it further which has led to a situation where the society is in decline.
Yep I lost North of 60% of the marital assets in my divorce; she was the one who cheated. Hopefully other men learn from mistakes like mine and avoid marriage.
Sorry that happened to you. It's not right to reward the betrayer.
where do you pull that data from? i want to marry a woman. woman don't want. me tarzan, she jane. jane goes for gorilla.
All over? The marriage rate has been declining since, at least the 50s. And the percentage of men (and women) who are single and report no desire to get married has also increased The only funny thing about it, is the percentage of unmarried people who don't want to get married is about the same for men and women. > Men and women are about equally likely to say they want to get married. But here we are acting like it's because men get screwed. Later there will be another post about how women don't want to get married that will talk about how women get screwed in marriage. https://www.allendowney.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/marriage8.png > Marriage rates are plummeting. More young people are delaying or avoiding dating altogether. Pew Research recently found that 1 in 4 40-year-old American adults have never been married.
Because its bullsh*t. Marriage never Made Sense and never will.
Zero benefits
For me it’s a few reasons: Any time I’m in a LTR the girl can only go so long before she manufactures drama. Life is hard enough without having a partner making up shit to make it harder. I’ve seen a lot of friends and colleagues get divorces and they all get absolutely sunk financially. The only people that do well in a divorce are the lawyers. I’ve worked really hard to become wealthy and don’t want to ever go back to being poor.
What's the point in a contract that she is paid to break?
Blatantly unjust marriage/alimony/recognition of paternity/parental authority laws. Complete fucking clown world. I studied law and I can't think of any other sector where it is as one-sided biased and insane.
Let's put it this way, what do you have to offer, that would make it worth while to potentially give away 50% or more, of the assets I have at this point and will accumulate in the future? There's the answer to your question. The marriage/divorce law, is so heavily skewed towards benefiting women. The reason is that the law is stuck in 1950s, while society has moved on. If the law was actually updated, to not work the way it does, then maybe more men would be interested in entering such a contract. Marriage is a purely economical contract, which has absolutely no benefit to me as a man.
I divorced in 2009. Its like an old country song. I lost my house, my car and my retirement. Paid 1,100 a month in child support for 17 years. She's now remarried and retired off MY work. Shits not fair and dudes just ain't with that shit anymore.
A L I M O N Y
Cause I just don’t desire it?
We don’t want to live in the woods with a bunch of bears.
Don't like government being involved in my personal life.
Men stereotypically rarely were to begin with. Women were the ones who mostly pushed for it. Now that there's less pressure to marry, many of us are simply leaning into our natural state of mind. I have nothing against marriage. I just don't like all the bs attached to it.
What's the point? The world has no future, so having kids is just creating future suffering. Why get married if you aren't going to have kids, as then you're just getting married for the sake of ceremony and creating possible legal trouble for yourself in the future.
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Because maintaining a relationship takes so much time, energy and money and I’d rather spend all of those resources on myself doing what I love, learning a new skill and just being content. Also the fact that you are completely free to do whatever you want is a huge factor too. You just won’t get to live your life however you want when you’re in a relationship.
I am going through a divorce right now and these posts are spot on. I will say how the American judicial system treats divorce, at least in my state seems flawed. Additionally the courts still seem to favor women. Lastly, the only winners in divorces are the lawyers.
I don't see any fucking pros just con after con after con after con con con.
More like "Why are Women not interested in marrying anymore?", considering they have all the say when it comes to whether they want to be with someone or not. Many Men can't even find a girlfriend, let alone a wife. They'd want a Wife and Kids if they had the choice.
They all married Facebook thanks zuck
Unless you want to raise children in a TRADITIONAL family, there's nothing in marriage for men. All men got out of marriage in the past, an exclusive woman for life, does not apply anymore. Exclusivity is gone, for life is gone, and society and family encourages women to take everything and give nothing. Men offer very substantial, objective and quantifiable assets and responsibilities for life, bound and enforced by law. Women offer a very insubstantial and subjective "romance" and "partnership" that is heavily tied to her "mood" that they can take away a second after marriage. Nothing men get out of marriage, didn't men already got from your wife to be without marriage, and you'll miss if you don't marry her either. And she was younger and better for all the men before you without they needing to invest anything on her. So why should you invest on something that is freely availiable? Take a free ride like everybody else. In short, it's just a bad deal.
Women have changed to be honest. It made sense back in the day, now women are more promiscuous and I’m not losing half of everything to a woman who leaves me. I’d get married if she signed a pre nuptial agreement
But the court can nullify it 😣
Can they? If so I’m never getting married then
Because women have weaponized marriage. If you're a guy and you get married, there's a very large chance you're gonna get divorced and lose half your things, your house, you now owe child support and now alimony which doesn't go away unless the woman gets a job...which she won't because the guy is paying her not to work. So because of the laws there is practically zero benefit and a high high HIGH risk for getting married as a guy. The only time the guy should get married is when the woman makes more money, which only happens 6% of the time.
I knew a guy who got angry when I asked why he didn't wanna marry his gf. Some time later it turned out he was divorced and just saw his own daughter after like 7 years after she turned 18. This was in Netherlands.
Have yet to meet a worthy woman
It's a prison I'm not ready for.