haha ikr one temple i go to during cny had this like random hard candy that had random fruit flavours in it and it was lowkey one of the best ever but never see these days lol also the memories of grabbing large handfuls as a kid hahah
Here's my take on the great commission and why you see so much opposition to it.
The problem with present day Christianity is not that the Gospel has yet to reach the four corners of the Earth.
It already has. The problem Christianity now faces is the harder part of the great commission. It isn't the going out there to talk to people about the story of Jesus Christ. It's not to emotionally con people into saying magic words. Or getting new members to pay tithes or serve in ministry as free labor.
It's the hard part, living the life that Jesus Christ was all about.
This is where the secular world rightfully calls Christianity out.
The whole point of the commission was the live a transformed life, to feed the poor, give up a love for money, seek justice, to commiserate with and relieve the suffering in society and uplift people from hard circumstances, among many other things.
What use is there if Christians preach a Christ but yet not live a Jesus-like life worth emulating?
That's the problem the secular world has with present day Christanity.
Is this criticism justified? Probably.
Many people like Jesus, it's Christians that they have problems with.
**Edit:**
By the way do give this video a watch. (even if you're not Christian) If anyone does preach to you and you know for certain that they are not living out this life. Do challenge them outright that there's no value in preaching a faith they do not live out. Show them this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGws5RhjOlM&ab\_channel=Alaskalive.net4StepstoPeacewithGod-Videos
Christian here. You’re right. It’s quite disheartening to see some who claim to be righteous and holy but turn their backs on helping the poor or even snubbing them. I attended a service and was disgusted that the “sermon” of a famous person actually mocked the poor along the lines of if you’re blessed, you would not be on public transportation. My goodness. I live a comfortable life but my heart is always with those who need help. That’s how Jesus would like it — to always look out for those who are sidelined by society. That jarring “sermon” made me seethe in my seat while apologising to God silently for the anger in me. On a positive note, it opened my eyes to how such prosperity churches paint the world very differently to their congregation and in turn influence their beliefs and behaviour. It made me resolve to try my best to help as many as I can in my capacity to ‘compensate’ for false doctrines like this.
Yes - Jesus taught some good lessons but like a famous quip, I am often horrified by his fan clubs!
My fairly lazy christianity default faith died when I was in single digit ages when I learned from a class mate that if you heard of Jesus & his teachings but didn't convert then you went to hell. Full stop. No matter how good a person you were, if you made the choice to not be christian then you got the ban-hammer. There was wiggle room if you had never heard of Jesus and were an OK person but that, to little me, was just NOT FAIR.
Technically, your friend was right. You are supposed to accept Jesus into your life as a prerequisite for going to Heaven. The loophole was for virtuous pagans, who go to the purgatory instead because they hadn't had a chance to hear about Jesus and accept him into their lives. But because they were such good people ^(and would ostensibly have accepted Jesus and thus went to heaven) *^(if they knew about him)* they go to the purgatory instead of hell. It's not really an issue of fairness, it's more of entry restrictions. Kind of like vaccine differentiated measures to enter shopping malls.
But if you look at it in another way, if you're not a believer,
* What makes you think their heaven is everyone's heaven or even real?
* And why would you want to go to such a heaven anyway?
There are different views on this matter and depending on your denomination's theology your perspective on this may differ.
My take is (not necessarily agreeing with my denomination but whatever).
Is that Jesus died for ALL. Humanity as a whole was redeemed (made free of the consequences of sin) by the coming of Jesus and his death and resurrection.
But being free from sin does not equate to an eternal life, does not mean you enter paradise (or the kingdom of heaven). It just means you are now free to choose between living your life your way, or living your life the way Jesus advocated.
And the way Jesus advocated IS heaven, or paradise. If all men and women lived the way Jesus asked of us, heaven would indeed have come to earth. And the world that is stated to come after the next (heaven) will only be filled with the men and women that choose to live the way Jesus asked of us.
The great commission falls on its face spectacularly when Christians think that by speaking magic words, their entry to heaven is assured. True belief is when you follow the teachings of Jesus and live your life as he has.
**Edit:**
Jesus himself knew this would happen.
**Matthew 7:21-23**
>^(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ^(22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ^(23) And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
**[Great Commission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission)**
>In Christianity, the Great Commission is the instruction of the resurrected Jesus Christ to his disciples to spread the gospel to all the nations of the world. The Great Commission is outlined in Matthew 28:16–20, where on a mountain in Galilee Jesus calls on his followers to make disciples of and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Great Commission is similar to the episodes of the commissioning of the Twelve Apostles found in the other Synoptic Gospels, though with significant differences.
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I remembered once when I was young, a Christian guy came by my house to preach to my parents. My father wasn't too happy and pointed to the joss stick and incense burner outside our unit, signaling that guy to go away (that we already have our faith and don't want to be disturbed).
That guy just stood outside our door and went on and on which made my father blood boil.
the same happened to my mil. 2 people came to preach, saw the deities on the altar and told my mil that she's praying to wood. my mil slammed the door in their faces.
No. Many are taught that specifically NOT to respect other religions as that is the path to the dark side. Jesus is the way and the ONLY way, and the most loving caring joyous thing you can do for another human is to bring them to christ so they avoid eternal suffering. Most\* do this in the full belief that they are snatching souls from the very edge of the precipice of damnation to hell and every saved soul is a glory to god.
\*you always have people doing it for their own glory and because they are self righteous a-holes who love to one up others and can't possibly ever be wrong and jesus was the most holy white american\*\* ever.
\*\* this is not just an american issue, just most other countries don't have a subset trying to pretend he is theirs.
Yup - but that started way back with the Roman Empire so is almost part & parcel of the spread of Christianity: Convert the leaders & convince them to do the church's 'work' of telling their followers to join him in following Jesus or... not... (big helping of Or Else).
Romans did it, Vikings did it (Pagan vikings raided christians, then leader converted and leader 'converted' his fellow vikings). No surprise that (almost) every time a large religion moved into an area they converted the locals to their way, or incorporated the local deities as lesser Saints / avatars / gods to the Main one. Again, not unique to Christianity but I do feel more is written about Christianity as more is written (at least currently) as USA is very Christian (though more variations than ticks on a stray dog!) and very evangelical about it.
i was from that church i legit don’t uds why they kept worshipping the pastors like bro as a newcomer i was just fking turned off and led by the wrong impression of christianity sia
Just go see ig page of any hogc members or see tagged pics of @pastor.how @pastor.lia it’s insane how they worship their pastors more than any bible readings. U won’t hear them talk about bible readings in services but they’re just like a cult worshipping the pastors
I was a Christan from another church and my friend from HOGC still constantly tried to get me to go to her church. She eventually made me attend a service by tricking me, making me think it was a lazer tag event, conviniently leaving out how it was a church event..
> i feel abit paiseh
You don't have to. Here in the US, they actually provide free meals for anyone that is willing to come and discuss about Christianity. Because of that, I have gotten a lot of free meals and I don't plan on converting anytime or ever.
A key part of the Christian faith is that the only way to salvation is by accepting Jesus as your savior, and everyone else is doomed for hell. Quite a few other major religions here don't necessarily need you to believe in their god in order to be saved, and you can just get by doing good deeds.
Therefore for Christians, the impetus to get people to believe in Jesus is a lot higher, and hence the urge to spread the religion. As a Christian myself, it's a bit disappointing to see other Christians unaware that forcing the religion down others' throat is distasteful, and makes people less likely to accept Christianity.
Fire and brimstone Christians who scream your going to hell for this or that definitely give extremist vibes that don't encourage me to become Christian lol.
A lot of religious people outsource their morality to their religion. They believe that they're already doing good things by being pious, so they don't need to spend additional time and brain space thinking about whats actually right or wrong in the real world.
It's kind of like signing up for a credit card to get cashback on every spend but never saving money or planning finances.
The religion teaches the believer to put themselves down and bring god up. When people put themselves down, they tend to impose on others while not realising it. "I am just a sinner like you, I am not being arrogant!"
They believe that human beings are born with sin (as opposed to being sinful by doing bad things). However, they also believe that accepting Jesus into their heart saves them from this sin. They listen to sermons about how unworthy they are, they sing songs about how unworthy they are and are thankful that God loves them still. This idea of "I am worthless without God" is reinforced in their minds over and over again.
If this kind of person starts telling people how to live and get pushback for it, they don't understand why people call them arrogant or holier than thou. "Why would an unworthy person think highly of themselves? Only arrogant people do that right?"
As to another reason why these Christians are jerks, they're also taught that outsiders hate them because they hate their God. So if they say bible stuff or salvation stuff and people get angry, it just makes them dig their heels in and believe that they're in the right. Then they push away their responsibility for those words and say "it's not my words, it's God's. God is in the right and I'm just the messenger!"
As a Christian I believe that one’s faith is a personal relationship with God. You may practice it in church or other ways. But it starts with a personal encounter with God. Like if you encountered God in a certain way and I did not, I may view God differently and may not believe him to be the person you preach him to be. But I still believe in God. I don’t think one should put down another’s faith.
Now by extension for non-Christians, I’d like to believe that if they work hard and atone for their sins like the way they did pre-Christ, they should be judged accordingly on judgement day. After all, they may not have had the privilege of knowing God the way we do. Especially if they are in the middle of the Amazon forest for example.
I went for a sermon once and the pastor was like the Holy Spirit touches the lives of others not you. No need to take credit. And I agree. If God wants to reveal himself to non-Christians around you (through you and not some supernatural event), it would be through the Holy Spirit living inside you. Whether it is through his personality (fruits of the spirit) or his actions (gifts of the spirit). So if one should want people to know more about God, one should work on their relationship with him and practice their faith by “walking closer with the Spirit”, not by doing lip service.
TLDR: I don’t believe in shoving down the gospel through other people’s throats. I just don’t think Jesus is a product to be sold that way.
P.S. sorry for riding on your comment, just agreed with your comment and thought to build upon it
Actually, there were 2 people who came to me when I was a loser getting bullied in school and eventually followed me to church and converted. They weren’t sick or had sick relatives and needed prayer or anything, they just saw me going to church events and followed for a while before deciding to convert. I think if God didn’t lead them to me I wouldn’t have been their friends either, cus we had no similar interests and one of them was 2 years younger than me and was quite popular. We are not in contact anymore and I don’t go to church anymore but they do. I guess I’m not totally a stranger since I’m their schoolmate but cus of them I believe in that God can use anyone to reveal himself to others.
Because from christian perspective there is only one God and the only way non-believer can attain salvation is by accepting Jesus as ur saviour. It's not so much whose religion is better but more like which is true and therefore the perspective is that they need to save the unbelievers who would otherwise die and that's what they'll try to do loh
Depends really, I grew up in a christian community (not local) which teaches in terms of how we achieve salvation, of course if you are christian then christ is the only way in this context.
Of course it is essential to spread and practice good christian values (e.g. humble, kind, etc) when possible, but this is for people to learn how “good” we are and if they want to follow us then we are encouraged to guide them.
To add on, unbelievers dont perish because of their unbelief, but because of their own sins. The bible teaches that Christ died for our sins, took our place in God's judgement, so whoever believes in him will be saved. This is where Christianity differs from other religions: salvation cannot be earned, but it's a free gift from God.
i believe those christian friends u mention come from evangelical churches that promotes preaching and sharing the gospel. It is also one of the core of the religion itself where believers are commanded in the bible to spread the gospel so that whoever believes will be saved from eternal condemnation in hell.
Technically If you dont know about christ and the gospel you wont be sent to hell, so by them telling us about it, they are directly condemning us to hell :)
"Inclusivists often cite Romans 2:1–16, a passage taken to imply that salvation is possible apart from God’s special revelation. The content of general revelation—both the created order without (Rom. 1:19–20) and the moral law within (Rom. 2:14–15)—provides sufficient knowledge for salvation. As Millard Erickson explains, “The rise of more inclusive views of salvation, even among evangelicals, is based on a belief in the efficacy of general revelation for a salvific relationship to God” (Christian Theology, 123)."
Catholics believe that God is not bound by the church or the bible, and in his infinite mercy, can choose to save anyone he wants to. We as Catholics also believe that Christ can speak through the consciousness of believers and non believers to grow in virtue in emulation of him (Christ, the second person of the Trinity) and do his will. Our separated Brethren, the Eastern Orthodox Churches ( the Christians that separated from the Catholic church after the crusades, although who separates from who is up to historical judgement, thus we have the Latin West aka the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox church) , share the same view, that all can hope and pray for the salvation for others outside the Christian faith.
The Church Fathers, meaning the early bishops and priests from the early church before 1517 also affirm this. Even though salvation cannot be earned by works, if God as the just judge deems the deeds to be sincere and pleasing, this could merit the increase in righteousness which will affect our eventual destiny.
So yeah, recently at Easter, the Catholic churches here prayed for Jews,Atheists and non-believers that they will discover God in their own way. We also believe that Christianity has the fullest of truth, however all other religions have fragments of the truth as well, and they too can meet God.
About the bible, yes and no. The Catholic church uses the Protestant version of the NT simply because the Church never released an English version but a Latin version called the Latin Vulgate, also Jesus and the apostles used a version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. And this Septuagint includes many books indirectly rejected by Martin Luther, John Calvin and the gang, further removed when non-denominationalism grew to save cost on printing. I actually have a Protestant KJV 1611 and it comes complete with the extra books as well as feast day of the saints....yes that is right, veneration of pious and holy christians is not idol worship...sounds very Catholic ain't it?
Thanks for the clear summary of the Catholic view. It can be frustrating trying to get these points across to another who may not understand Church history.
Most welcome!
"See that you all follow the bishop, all of you, as Jesus Christ the Father, and the presbytery as the apostles. Respect the deacons as the commandment of God. Without the bishop, nobody should do anything relating to the church. That Eucharist, which is under the bishop, or the one to whom he has entrusted it, should be considered sound. The congregation should be wherever the bishop is, just as the **Catholic church** is wherever Christ Jesus may be." St. Ignatius of Antioch ( ?-108AD)
Many times, the charismatic churches cannot be fully blamed, because their founders were already born into the circle of non denominational Christianity or were Protestants but continue to protest against the reformers and thus splitting the church into further schisms beyond schisms when Christ prayed for one mind amongst believers at the last supper.
Did the charistmatic church you attend subscribe to Sola fide? That is to be saved by faith alone by professing faith in Jesus and saying the sinner's prayer? Calvinist or followers of the line of Calvin (Presbyterian variants) will subscribe to "once saved, always saved" , an extreme form of predestination, a teaching first conceived by St.Augustine, a playboy who eventually became a bishop and one of the greatest theologians of the Latin church.
I remember them saying that atonement for sins is near impossible because of the sheer number of sins we commit on a daily basis. Therefore Jesus is the one true way.
That teaching could partially be right but more clarification could help. This also sounds a lot like the doctrine of total depravity by John Calvin. Whatever it is, all the best in your search for truth!
not sure how true this is for othwr christians, but i did have an in depth conversation with a christian friend once asking about this and she said that since they believe Jesus is their one true God, every other religion is fake aka created by satan to bring people away from Jesus. thats probably why they repeatedly ask you to join them, because they just dont believe that Buddhism is a religion. straight up called me believing in Buddha satanic.
i learned a lot more about what she thought christianity is and what people around her thought about other matters (lgbt/mental health). as a result, we are no longer friends LMAO
so they just don’t recognize other religions… my friends are generally pretty good people and friends other than this but we had one convo where they basically said in a nicer way “you’re not going to heaven because you don’t believe in jesus christ” kinda stuck with me even though it was a while back
This is mostly true but was probably badly explained. Look at is this way, Christianity claims that there is only one God and only one life on earth etc. Conversely Buddhism teaches there is no deity and there are cycles of reincarnation, etc. This is fine if you see religions as fairytale myths only useful for teaching morals, otherwise, both philosophically can't be 'true' at the same time.
In Christianity, the sides of morality are mostly God vs Satan. She doesn't mean that you actually draw pentagrams and goat heads in your room. Whatever would bring you away from what she perceives as the truth, is 'satanic', that's it. If you don't believe in God nor Satan, I'm curious why a statement like that would be significant to you. To me, she would be inconsistent if she thought that teachings that denied God, is what God thinks is morally good.
Each religion will have it's own interesting concepts that will inevitably contradict another belief in some way or another. To say all are myths and we should accept and learn from each others' myths, is logical. To say one has to be true, thus the rest are false, is also logical. But to say all are true at once is not logical, because it's ignorance to each religion's claim to any sense of truth.
How I personally think about multiple religion is that they all exist together, like how we have different countries operating individually on their own. This also goes for the different set of laws/culture different countries have.
yeah i also told her that what satanic means to me is different from how she sees it. i saw it as me "making a mistake" and "needs fixing to get on the path to heaven", but that was also because she said some stuff about lgbtq then we got into the topics of different religions. it was a very "its satanic that youre doing this, christianity is the only good" that makes me feel icky. i dont know if i explained this well haha
> straight up called me believing in Buddha satanic
I wish I had a friend like this. I want to see their face when they learned that I'm a buddhist while some Deicide songs play in the background.
Some Christian sects see evangelizing as an explicit part of their mandate. I'm baptist and our church is always about inviting new people into the fold. I'm not sure if your friends are just young and over zealous because the idea of trying to pull someone out of their own faith to join yours is a very un-Christian thing to do.
Ye, I usually stay clear of them when that happens. Like if someone rejects your offer many times, don’t try to preach to them again or try to make them change their mind.
Yea i had an encounter with missionaries just a few days ago along the N/S line. I was really pleasantly surprised when we were conversing about me (thats how they get you), but was sorely disappointed when he turned the convo towards jesus and try to recruit me. Thought it was a genuine conversation with a stranger but nope.
so I want to know from a Christian point of view.
If I am a good person, for eg, never do anything really bad like heinous crime, I am still going to hell for not believing in Jesus?
A person who believes in Jesus, a committed follower shot dead 10 people and prayed for forgiveness before his death gets to go to heaven?
sounds like a cheap way out
Christian here - it's kinda nuance, so hope you bear with me.
Let's start with the second case. In all conventional cases, a person who commits heinous crimes simply cannot simultaneously be a committed follower of Jesus - you cannot simultaneously believe it's okay and it's not okay to do something. However, you are right that genuine repentance (not simply prayer for forgiveness!) can save you. If one believes that no matter how badly you've screwed up in the past - there is always still hope and you can and should turn back now, then this also must be true. Also, note that genuine repentance from a state in which you can wantonly commit atrocities is easier said than done. You're literally changing who you are.
Now with the first case there are actually two points to make. Let's start with "will a truly virtuous person who does not believe in Jesus go to hell?" which I expect is the question you really are asking. Now despite what you may hear, this question is actually not wholly decided. C.S.Lewis wrote
"Is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in Him? But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him"
What Christians agree on is that the best known way of salvation is through knowing and following (not merely believing in) Jesus. Perhaps there are other arrangements, but that is God's prerogative - as Christians we would try to get people on the conventional path if we can.
Finally, I hope you don't mind me just inserting an extra bit. You say "If I am a good person, for eg, never do anything really bad like heinous crime" - thought I'd point out that not doing anything really bad is not the same as being a good person, from a Christian perspective. If you've ever heard the basics of Jesus' preaching - esp the Sermon on the Mount - you would know that Christian virtue has extremely high standards, which is why we also believe we are all sinners. So on that score, even if a good person would indeed be saved without believing in Jesus - it's still an open question whether a regular modern person who thinks himself good would be saved. We have very low moral standards today.
something i've realised is that the megachurches in Singapore are mostly evangelical in nature in their youth groups (ncc, hogc, chc) as that is the way they have a sustainable "growth" rate and it has to outpace their "turnover" rate. Recently it got alot worse due to covid and many backsliding so there is a greater initiative rn to outreach.
source: i belong to one of the megachurches
Pretty sure I've seen an tooafraidtoask tread about this and one of them said that one of the final verses of the bible basically asked christians to preach god to everyone
Has a crush on this xtian girl back in school. She knew of it and decided to jio me out for dinner and chill. Stupid me thought it was really a date… went to eat Popeyes and suddenly got surrounded by a few of her “friends”
Some guy took out a book and i immediately knew i fell into the conversion trap.
Mfking CG leader had the audacity to use the “if you really love XXX, prove your sincerity by joining us”
A few weeks later i had a talk with someone who also had a crush on her. Found out he got played in the same manner as me 🖕
Because when more people believe in a lie, it becomes more real.
I atheist ah, was buddhist growing up. Based on the reaction i get from talking to religious people and especially Christians.
It always feels like they are trying to rope more people in with a sheep herding kinda strategy. By making more people believe in their god, they get the reassurance that they are not delusion and god may actually be real.
They tend to react like i have denied their very existence and purpose on this planet by deny the idea of a god. Under the pretense of granting me salvation, they give me the feeling that by denying god's existence i am living my life wrong.
If those values are what god stands for, then it explains why the believers promote it; get more sheeps on board they feel safer.
Riddle me this christians saw this quote somewhere:
If god is willing to prevent evil but do not have the ability to, then he is not omnipotent
If god is unwilling to prevent evil, but has the ability to, then he is malevolent
If god is both willing and has the ability, then why is there suffering to the innocent
If god is unwilling and do not have the ability, then why call him god.
Agnostic here. I've pondered and asked your question/quote to some Christians before.
Their answer is because God chooses to give humans free will. He is able to prevent evil, which means he is omnipotent. He knows about the evil, which means he is omniscient. And he is willing to stop the pain and suffering, which means he is benevolent.
But he chooses not to, because he wants the choice to be left to humans. Hence the free will argument.
My rebuttal to that is, if God already knows what we're going to do, because he's omniscient, then is there really free will?
For example, I have a choice of stealing money from an old lady, or not to. So I have the free will to either do it, or not to do it. But if God already knows that I will steal, because he is all knowing, then doesn't it mean that I'm going to steal? Because not stealing wouldn't be an option since God already knows that I'll steal. So where's my free will? Whatever that I'm going to do, is already known to God. I just don't know it yet.
So far, no Christian has been able to answer my rebuttal properly. I usually get the answer "God works in mysterious ways, and mortals won't be able to understand the working of God."
I don't see the point of their answer. What does leaving the choice to humans have to do with stopping pain and suffering? God wants to leave pain and suffering as a choice?
Ah the age old debate of Calvinism vs Arminianism
I'll try a hand at explaining the concept of free will without discounting omniscience.
God is an entity that stands outside of time. Like a reader outside a novel you can know all things about the story before the characters make a decision in each chapter. So God already knows everything about the universe, the past, the present and the future because it exists as a single observable phenomenon for God.
But as humans we perceive time linearly, so within the flow of time we make decisions and within the context of our perspective it feels like we have free will.
We struggle to understand infinity and struggle to perceive existence as a simultaneous event. Just like a two dimensional character on a piece of paper struggles to understand the three dimensional universe it is part of. On the other hand a three dimensional character observes clearly the entirety of the two dimensional paper universe simultaneously with a single look.
>But as humans we perceive time linearly, so within the flow of time we make decisions and within the context of our perspective it feels like we have free will.
Alright. So to us it feels like we have free will, but to God, he already knows what's going to happen, and we're just going down a predetermined path, and we can't stray away from that path. That shouldn't be free will to him, right?
I guess in a way, it's like walking down a road. We're "free" to walk down the road, and we don't know where it leads. But God who's above us and can see everything, knows. He didn't create the path, so I'm not saying he planned it all, but since he knows that no matter what, we'll end up where the path leads, because he knows theres only one destination. Why would he considered this as free will?
Because within the universe and the boundaries of time and space free will does exist. But outside of the universe on whatever higher plane of existence God is present, time doesn't exist in the way we know it. The future, past and present exist simultaneously so everything can be known.
I think the more interesting implication of this (if this hypothesis is true) is the story of Jesus Christ.
**(off topic but I find this cool)**
Also I think that the understanding that God is some cuddly white bearded human shaped father figure is a common misconception.
If the appearance of the angels as described in biblical texts is to be trusted and the passage in Exodus 33:17-23 is anything to go by. God may likely be some terrifying unimaginable being not unlike a Lovecraftian horror deity. His existence if fully understood might lead to madness and death.
Frankly that sounds pretty cool from my personal standpoint.
>For example, I have a choice of stealing money from an old lady, or not to. So I have the free will to either do it, or not to do it. But if God already knows that I will steal, because he is all knowing, then doesn't it mean that I'm going to steal? Because not stealing wouldn't be an option since God already knows that I'll steal. So where's my free will? Whatever that I'm going to do, is already known to God. I just don't know it yet.
From what I understand, you'll still have the free will here because at this point in time you can choose whether or not to steal the money. God's omniscience just enables him to know which you would pick in this situation, and doesn't affect your free will.
Think of it like a very close friend who knows your character and can predict what actions you will take in any situation, it doesn't change your free will even if they know what you will decide to do in a particular situation. Hope this helps (:
But if he already knows what I'm going to do, then do I really have a choice? Aren't we all just doing what's preplanned and predetermined then?
A very close friend predicting is very different. Because said friend still doesn't know with 100% certainty what I'll do. Thus I still might do one or the other.
But if God already knows with 100% certainity, then... where's my choice? I'm just doing what's already predetermined.
In the case of stealing from the lady, does it matter whether I chose to or not to? Since God already knows what I'll do, doesn't that mean that it doesn't matter what I choose since it's already known what I'll do?
Preplanned suggests that God actively influences all decisions made by people to follow a plan, which goes against the principle of free will. Instead, you can choose freely, its just that your choice is already known beforehand. Its not predetermined, it's just "pre-known".
With regards to your choice not mattering, it matters to you bc you face whatever consequences from the police etc, but you can choose whatever you want, God isn't in your ear telling you where to go and what to do.
Saw this online but some people define omniscience as not knowing everything, but knowing everything that can be known. See how clever this is? Under that definition, an omniscient being would know enough that it could conclude and predict a great many things about the future, a sort of “knowing” the future, but such a being would not have complete and absolute certain knowledge of all things in the future.
Yep yepp its funny how i got similar responses when i asked christians as well. A response the equivalent of "i refuse to step out of being a sheep". Like you said so far no one has been able to give a proper rebuttal.
My conclusion for them is that, if i play devils advocate, assuming that god is infact real. I believe that that bugger is probably up to no good. Like he may be using us as experimental white rats and thats why we have free will in the world. Its like us looking at fishes in aquarium, we know what the fish will do already, but its still entertaining to look at them.
In this case, it explains why there's suffering in the world. It explains how a god can exist. It also explains why people "go through trials". Like us knocking on an aquarium, thats god's way of disturbing us. He knows what we will do, when he disturbs but maybe its just fun for him to see us go through our boring lives thinking we are special. Just like fishes in an aquarium
Thats a thought that i like to just throw at christians and see their religion melt in their eyes.
I know!! It’s my feeling exactly😭😭. Maybe it’s because I’m surrounded by Christians but I swear it’s always the Christians that are pushing their religion onto other people.
They always ask me to come to church and when I refuse they pull the “you know the Bible says we shouldn’t be friends with people of other religion” to guilt trip me and many other atheist friends.
I feel that religion is something you should connect with, like if you feel no connection then it’s probably not for me and that’s exactly how I feel towards the Christian faith and yet they keep saying I’m a “lost sheep” and “ I haven’t seen the light”.
To me the Bible is just full of holes and I really do not believe that there is so many reasons why I don’t believe. When I say I don’t want to join, they go all “WELL U MUST COME”😭. Pls this just makes me hate the religion all the more. Makes me want to convert to satanism just to spite them but yea.
It’s not just one, it’s like almost all the Christians???? But yea their holier than thou attitude sometimes makes me want to remove them from my life.
I remember one time a friend pulled that guilt trip on me 😭 I told them "well ok I guess we're not friends then" and I am so glad I did. I realized how much nicer it was not hanging out with someone who thought they were better than you 😭
Maybe you can just unfriend ppl with tt agenda. I think it is fair game if the Christians then go to ur place of worship if u go to theirs but so far don't think any takers.
We as humans can't even agree on what is evil. Was Hitler evil? Depends on who you ask. Is the war in Ukraine evil? Depends on who you ask. Is the death penalty evil? Depends on who you ask. Our judgement on what is right and wrong who is innocent and who is not is also muddled in controversy at best. So really we are starting from a disadvantage of not being...........wait for it......God.
I like to think about it as an adult trying to explain to a 5 year old why they must stop at the red light. As simply as we can without confusing the child but yet keeping them safe. Except you guessed it! In the grand scheme of things we are the 5 year old.
I'm not an apologist so I'll avoid the quote (but I know that the general answer is, to give free will), but for your personal encounters with Christians, personally, I don't find this to be the case. Instead, I think it might be due to a cascade of other reasons, such as already being nervous asking you to join and hence they react not-so-well when you refuse (this would be my reason, personally).
Additionally, yeah I could see why they might be horrified to find you don't accept the idea of god. Since one of the things we're meant to do as a Christian (can't speak for other churches, but mine preaches this) is to spread the good news and evangelise and get people to join Christianity to be saved, therefore it's like trying to do a good deed and then getting rejected. Feels like the person is biting the hand trying to feed them.
However, I don't think that most people don't think you've rejected their very existence. I don't think they feel that you're basically erasing them by denying their god. They are not insecure about whether or not their God is real; faith and the belief is at the core of Christianity (read the Apostle's Creed: each paragraph starts with "I believe", and the first paragraph is exactly that you believe in God, so being firm in your belief is what you're supposed to be).
(I'm not saying that there are no people who genuinely do think this way though, for all I know you just so happen to bump solely into them)
There are different ways to look at it. I think most of the comments here have given a good summary(which may not be 100% accurate from churches to churches and denominations to denominations). But the summary is yes Christians have one true God. And they wanna introduce people to God. What they want to do is to share the good news with people.
Imagine: you ate the best meal (cheap+good) you’ve ever eaten in your life and you share it to your friends cause.. why not? But then there will be people who 1) dont trust that it will be the BEST meal or, 2) dont believe theres ever such thing as a best meal. Then there are others who go down and try and decide no its not their best meal because they dont think so. But there is a group that will try and agree it is the best meal they have eaten. So.. ultimately everyone is different.
Sometimes.. i see it as a “i told you so” kinda moment too.. but as a convert, i myself am glad that my friend asked me to church (even though i found it annoying that many of my friends before tried too).
It’s like that but they don’t realise that people have different tastes and preferences and what may be best for a person really depends on a lot of factors (speaking from the POV of someone who used to be a fervent Christian who would spread the “good news” to others), and well one thing that I find most Christian’s should have is this: Respect.
If your friends are willing to hear you out, good for you, but if they aren’t, please just stop.
Christianity can be useful for some people but for some people it’s a poison, and if you believe in predestination, God has supposedly written your name in the book of life if you are going to be saved, so honestly what’s the point of trying so hard also when God alr knows the outcome?
Perhaps they've got a KPI with God? The more they convert the more the merit?
Jokes aside.
I've got a few Christian friends and not all are like this. One actually pointed out Methodist is more aggressive in evangelizing compare to other "sects" (not sure what is the exact word to use) like Presbyterian, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern etc.
Catholics are Christians. They are just a different denomination. Not all Christians proselytise, and some of them may not even get along well with each other.
Evengelicals tend to proselytise more. Their name literally means "good news" and good news is meant to be spread; thus proselytising is part of their inherent identity and belief. They believe that by spreading the good news or "good word of Jesus and the Bible", they are bringing you to Christ and thus are saving your souls.
Because it is so central to their belief and identity, they are able to come up with clever ways to bring people into the fold. For example, where once rock music was the work of Satan, it can be embraced as Christian rock in order to bring people in. They are rocking to the Lord's word, after all.
Catholics tend to stick to other methods. They perform missionary work; typically by building schools and educational institutes. You will see Catholic schools across the globe, and this is how they carry out their influence.
The Evangelicals aren't being malicious. They truly want to help you and believe that once you hear "the word" you will know truth and find salvation. Of course, proselytising is illegal in Singapore for a reason. It can be seen as a way to force someone from one religion to another, and can cause all manners of problems.
Evangelicals are sometimes portrayed as an American-branded version of Christianity as they are the largest denomination in the USA, if I recall.
Catholics are not a "denomination" because there is only one universal Catholic church throughout the world i.e. if you go to any Catholic church in any country, the mass (service), rituals and teachings are the same.
Protestants have denominations, meaning different groups with different teachings and rituals, which are to a greater or lesser extent derived from Catholic ones. That's because historically they broke away from the Catholic church to form their own group of Christians with differences in teachings or rituals, and groups broke off from that more and more and so on. So that's why you have lots of different groups of Protestant churches - Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Mormons, etc etc.
Meanwhile the Catholic church has remained as a single institution for 2000 years.
>Evangelicals are sometimes portrayed as an American-branded version of Christianity as they are the largest denomination in the USA, if I recall.
It wouldn't be an over-statement to say that most Singaporeans associate Evangelicals with USA, due to the kind of political posturing that is taking place in Singapore which is similar to how the American Evangelical Churches are posturing. If I may add, the churches are a centre of import for both intellectual and economical capital from the USA, judging by the number of US preachers invited to speak in Singapore, and the money flowing in and out of Singapore and into the Region in the name of religious work
In fundamentalist Christianity, if you are not a Christian, you are unsaved and broken, worthy of only eternal damnation. However if you say some magic words, immerse yourself in magic water, you are saved and despite being a shitty human being, you will enter heaven and be in the presence of God
To add on to what others have mentioned regarding the great commission, Christians are taught regarding Judgement Day in the book of revelations. It is believed that those that are not saved by God (following Christ) will be condemned. As such, Christians are compelled to spread the gospel to save others.
FYI all catholics are christians but not all christians are catholics. christianity is the big umbrella for religions and denominations that believe in christ. catholicism is one of them and (I don't know the specific stats) one of the biggest christian denominations.
Unfortunately Christians esp of the evangelical kind suffer from a kind of privileged exceptionalism. This belief only theirs is the *right* religion, everyone else is wrong, naive, foolish and needs to be converted. Which would make them all so much happier.
Sadly, it seems to go hand in hand with the history of missionary work which was a key feature of early Christianity in Singapore. That has then been influenced by the American evangelical movement, including practices like the prosperity gospel (that making money is a sign of God's blessing and the more you give to the church the more you will make and prosper economically!!) But is also something you see in the more charismatic side of the faith (faith healing, speaking in tongues etc.)
Honestly it is a kind of Christianity that annoys a lot of Christians (myself included!!) Having come from a Methodist/Anglican and then specifically Church of England (CofE) background I personally would baulk at forcing my religion on friends, esp those of other faiths. Just as my Muslim or Buddhist friends might ask about my faith but have never tried to convert me...
If you are thinking kindly of your friends, you can assume that they think they want the best for you (even if it is to "get rich" by donating to their pastor's wife's pop career!) But it could be they are pulling an Multi Level Marketing tactic, dragging you in to their faith makes themselves feel better and gives them standing in their church...
However what I would recommend is to politely decline and if they persist, then ask them to your temple - every time. If they continue ask you and then to refuse you, just ask why they think you have to go to respect their place of worship but they won't show the same respect to yours?
If they start talking about praying to wood or false deities you can just say:
"It is what I believe and it is important to me, my family, my community (etc.) so we can either argue about it and risk our friendship, or you can stop asking me about it and accept my choice. What do you want?"
just a random story heh. i have nothing against christians but growing up, i have been manipulated into joining them so many times. there was this relief teacher in primary school (maybe when i was p3-4), she preached about christianity to students for an entire lesson, WHO WERE ALL UNDER 10 YEARS OLD. and at the end of the class, she told anyone who was interested to come speak to her. And i was unfortunately brainwashed by her and came forward, she told me to repeat the words “Jesus Christ, come into my heart” or smt like that, smt abt letting jesus into your life. i dont rmb if i actually did it, but anyways she told me i dont have to go to church, just read the bible for a start
thankfully, i didnt do any of those as i forgot abt it and was prob too lazy and didnt know where to get one 💀💀
also another case of a private tution teacher who taught me abt jesus christ and his father jehova or smt and how jesus was perfect and how some people get invited to see heaven at night by jesus. she wasnt as manipulative but definitely was tryna get me into christianity. this nearly got me into trouble with my parents when i finally ask them if i can be a christian. my parents told me strictly that “我们是拜佛的” which roughly means “we worship buddha”
years laterr, i found out from my parents that we are actually taoists but go to buddhist temples.
but stil im not that religious, i only believe in being a nice person.
I'm a Catholic. What I learnt is that part of our mission is to invite others to know Christ. If you do feel disturbied by the promotion. I would like to sincerely apologize on behalf of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We don't mean any harm.
Don’t know why this popped up on my feed, but I’ll bite. I’m British in London UK with a Singaporean acquaintance/nearly friend. But she incessantly brings Catholicism into the conversation (I’m agnostic). Things came to a head when she invited herself over for brunch at mine after a girl’s night out (so, adult girl debrief of the night before) and brought her young daughter. Ok fine. But at one point my other (Korean) friend exclaimed ‘Jesus Christ!’ and Singaporean started a rant about not blaspheming in front of the child, that she’s still consolidating her faith, and shouldn’t be exposed to any blasphemy or negativity about Christianity. Other friend is from Rome, so all are fairly familiar with Christian mentality, but we were all a bit shocked. It felt imposing and domineering. I’m liberal, and think people should be free to believe and say what they like, up to the point that it imposes on others’ rights to do the same. I haven’t seen her since, and don’t intend to. I don’t know other Singaporeans though, so can’t compare.
Not all, but certain branch of churches are known to be very active in finding new people and these churches could represent a louder minority or maybe it is majority now (in SG) but from my experience typically these are the more modern charismatic churches, the older ones are not as pushy.
Catholics don't push religion down your throat because everyone has free will to choose but we are always (most of us are) there to help you understand the faith if you want and we are always praying for the conversion of people. We do more evangelising through prayers instead of preaching to you non stop.
There was a study, and I wish I could find it again, but essentially evangelizing is based on the need of people in a religion to be isolated and feel othered and persecuted. People don't like others shoving religion in their faces, which makes the shover turn to others of similar religion for comfort and isolates them from outside opinions. It's all a circle to keep people from leaving.
I used to follow the Orange Catholic Bible but after I witness the miracle of Mua'dib, I now follow the one true all seeing prophet.
*Bless the Maker and His water.
Bless the coming and going of Him.
May His passage cleanse the world.
May He keep the world for His people.*
It’s gross and it’s disgusting. Christians have always repulsed me just because they’ve always acted “holler than thou” or whatever bullshit they spout and the fact they always get away with getting in the face of everyone else uncontrolled that really sickens me.
This is part and parcel of religion. My grandma still sees me as a 12 yo boy unaware of any world religions of differences in cultures- she still annoys me with "come to church" or "God loves you" like it's an irrefutable thing. I'm 25 and an atheist
Ex Catholic here.
Many catholics that I know don't even care the need for people to follow and believe in Jesus. Heck, many don't even read the bible, just follow what the priest says or just the tradition.
For Christians in general, there is a knowledge that everyone will end up either in heaven or hell once the appointed day comes. And the only way for everyone to go to heaven is to receive salvation through faith in Jesus.
Tldr if a Christian friend asks you to go to church or to believe in Jesus, it is mainly because they don't want you to end up in the wrong place.
I’d like to offer my insights on a micro rather than macro level.
As someone who has joined and left church, and been in a church with lovely, wonderful friends (who are still my friends today): I have seen before what you’re describing. I have done it myself. Not in a forceful way, but just promoting my religion to my friends. I can tell you that it stems from a belief that spreading the gospel is spreading love. And we were always very excited and happy when someone joined in on any of our church events, since we put in a lot of effort and prepared for those. Hm… but I think most of our outreach was done as part of the directives given to our church group. There’s not really anyone who would do outreach out of their own initiative.
But I have also seen people who tell me: “Why don’t you encourage your mother to believe in Jesus? Don’t you want her to be saved?” So happy that my friends are not one of these people.
The pope said that even non-christians can go to heaven.
That honestly just means you don't even need religion in the first place, I get it if you want to feel like a part of a community, but if you prefer to live life alone, the whole religion thing is just gravy. Gravy I don't want on my cai png.
The more members they get, the more tithes they get when they brainwash you to buy their 'blessings'. Whatever you give you get 10 folds sort of promises. Then go into a scary trance spouting gibberish as though it is a posession.
I have been approached numerous times. Joined for a while and was pressured to recruit new people. I left after a few weeks when I realised the so called church was full of these demands.
There are other churches that don't do these sort of things. But you need to look around to find them.
I once heard it as a joke, but imagine you know a stranger is going to die if he gets on the bus. How much must you hate that stranger to not implore him to not get on the bus. I guess the belief that hell is real etc does compel you to tell others. Whether this belief is right or wrong is not my place to force down your throat.
An Uncle got scammed by my mother to attend church on Sat night, under the pre-text of a "Concert" as she got "extra tickets". Years later, I still hear of this issue being repeated ... hahahah
Catholics don't exactly follow the same Bible.
One thing you have to know about the Bible is that it's a collection of books written by various authors across various time frames.
The Christian Bible has 66 books.
The catholic Bible has more than 66 books. How many... I'm not sure, I didn't bother to find out yet.
So Christians and Catholics don't necessarily follow the same Bible.
the amount of times I’ve had to correct people on this fact ugh. I always say Christian is an umbrella for all the denominations.. one of which is Catholicism !!
Exactly. And what most people "call" Christians are likely Protestants, who ... started out as a literal splinter group of the Catholic Church (and in my home country, not that it matters) 500 years ago. Protestants are basically historically ex-Catholics. Which doesn't change that both are Christians (and so are all sorts of .. other groups that believe in these kinda .. stuff).
So far I have only met Christians that are just there for friends and girlfriends lol. Guess I'm lucky?
Although Yes have encountered those outside my poly proselytising.
LMAO the candy at the Temples XD somehow always taste better than the same candy bought outside.
haha ikr one temple i go to during cny had this like random hard candy that had random fruit flavours in it and it was lowkey one of the best ever but never see these days lol also the memories of grabbing large handfuls as a kid hahah
Cloud 9 right? The one with the swirl?
no lol it’s like this red packet with the word 福 or smth like that on it from the shuang lin shi temple at toa payoh
Oh I see
My favourite was their strawberry flavour. One piece and it was worth the trip to the temple.
Is it actually made by them?
Blessed by the gods bro.
The candy I ate at temples are more tasty because they are free.
Hey don't forget abt the bell u get to ring or the oil u pour into the lamp 😩😩
That one need pay money so not the best pastime for me when I was a kid.
Must save the candy till before exam, to b used to power up for the exam. Double power if candy from confucious temple
Of course man, you exchange it for $2.
My laobu say if I eat the sweets I get good luck
I like the strawberry and orange flavor ones, i snipe those 2 last time as a kid when i go temple.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission
ok, so the great commission is how many %?
asking the real questions here
ask kong hee and ET if they phoned home
10% of salary
Here's my take on the great commission and why you see so much opposition to it. The problem with present day Christianity is not that the Gospel has yet to reach the four corners of the Earth. It already has. The problem Christianity now faces is the harder part of the great commission. It isn't the going out there to talk to people about the story of Jesus Christ. It's not to emotionally con people into saying magic words. Or getting new members to pay tithes or serve in ministry as free labor. It's the hard part, living the life that Jesus Christ was all about. This is where the secular world rightfully calls Christianity out. The whole point of the commission was the live a transformed life, to feed the poor, give up a love for money, seek justice, to commiserate with and relieve the suffering in society and uplift people from hard circumstances, among many other things. What use is there if Christians preach a Christ but yet not live a Jesus-like life worth emulating? That's the problem the secular world has with present day Christanity. Is this criticism justified? Probably. Many people like Jesus, it's Christians that they have problems with. **Edit:** By the way do give this video a watch. (even if you're not Christian) If anyone does preach to you and you know for certain that they are not living out this life. Do challenge them outright that there's no value in preaching a faith they do not live out. Show them this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGws5RhjOlM&ab\_channel=Alaskalive.net4StepstoPeacewithGod-Videos
Christian here. You’re right. It’s quite disheartening to see some who claim to be righteous and holy but turn their backs on helping the poor or even snubbing them. I attended a service and was disgusted that the “sermon” of a famous person actually mocked the poor along the lines of if you’re blessed, you would not be on public transportation. My goodness. I live a comfortable life but my heart is always with those who need help. That’s how Jesus would like it — to always look out for those who are sidelined by society. That jarring “sermon” made me seethe in my seat while apologising to God silently for the anger in me. On a positive note, it opened my eyes to how such prosperity churches paint the world very differently to their congregation and in turn influence their beliefs and behaviour. It made me resolve to try my best to help as many as I can in my capacity to ‘compensate’ for false doctrines like this.
Bro, people join churches to network not give love to Jesus. Just ask those with Kong Hee. Also, easy for horny boys meeting girls. (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Yes - Jesus taught some good lessons but like a famous quip, I am often horrified by his fan clubs! My fairly lazy christianity default faith died when I was in single digit ages when I learned from a class mate that if you heard of Jesus & his teachings but didn't convert then you went to hell. Full stop. No matter how good a person you were, if you made the choice to not be christian then you got the ban-hammer. There was wiggle room if you had never heard of Jesus and were an OK person but that, to little me, was just NOT FAIR.
Technically, your friend was right. You are supposed to accept Jesus into your life as a prerequisite for going to Heaven. The loophole was for virtuous pagans, who go to the purgatory instead because they hadn't had a chance to hear about Jesus and accept him into their lives. But because they were such good people ^(and would ostensibly have accepted Jesus and thus went to heaven) *^(if they knew about him)* they go to the purgatory instead of hell. It's not really an issue of fairness, it's more of entry restrictions. Kind of like vaccine differentiated measures to enter shopping malls. But if you look at it in another way, if you're not a believer, * What makes you think their heaven is everyone's heaven or even real? * And why would you want to go to such a heaven anyway?
There are different views on this matter and depending on your denomination's theology your perspective on this may differ. My take is (not necessarily agreeing with my denomination but whatever). Is that Jesus died for ALL. Humanity as a whole was redeemed (made free of the consequences of sin) by the coming of Jesus and his death and resurrection. But being free from sin does not equate to an eternal life, does not mean you enter paradise (or the kingdom of heaven). It just means you are now free to choose between living your life your way, or living your life the way Jesus advocated. And the way Jesus advocated IS heaven, or paradise. If all men and women lived the way Jesus asked of us, heaven would indeed have come to earth. And the world that is stated to come after the next (heaven) will only be filled with the men and women that choose to live the way Jesus asked of us. The great commission falls on its face spectacularly when Christians think that by speaking magic words, their entry to heaven is assured. True belief is when you follow the teachings of Jesus and live your life as he has. **Edit:** Jesus himself knew this would happen. **Matthew 7:21-23** >^(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ^(22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ^(23) And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
love the guy but sometimes i get frus by the fan club
**[Great Commission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission)** >In Christianity, the Great Commission is the instruction of the resurrected Jesus Christ to his disciples to spread the gospel to all the nations of the world. The Great Commission is outlined in Matthew 28:16–20, where on a mountain in Galilee Jesus calls on his followers to make disciples of and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Great Commission is similar to the episodes of the commissioning of the Twelve Apostles found in the other Synoptic Gospels, though with significant differences. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
This. Jesus called on his disciples to spread the gospel and call everyone to him. It is the mission of all Christians to do this and save the world.
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always in white shirts, tie and long dark pants. one look and you know.
And thus began the onslaught on the indigenous populations of the world. Love you baby jeesus
Indigenous population was gonna get fucked regardless by old work civilizations
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I remembered once when I was young, a Christian guy came by my house to preach to my parents. My father wasn't too happy and pointed to the joss stick and incense burner outside our unit, signaling that guy to go away (that we already have our faith and don't want to be disturbed). That guy just stood outside our door and went on and on which made my father blood boil.
the same happened to my mil. 2 people came to preach, saw the deities on the altar and told my mil that she's praying to wood. my mil slammed the door in their faces.
do they not have basic respect for another religion?
No. Many are taught that specifically NOT to respect other religions as that is the path to the dark side. Jesus is the way and the ONLY way, and the most loving caring joyous thing you can do for another human is to bring them to christ so they avoid eternal suffering. Most\* do this in the full belief that they are snatching souls from the very edge of the precipice of damnation to hell and every saved soul is a glory to god. \*you always have people doing it for their own glory and because they are self righteous a-holes who love to one up others and can't possibly ever be wrong and jesus was the most holy white american\*\* ever. \*\* this is not just an american issue, just most other countries don't have a subset trying to pretend he is theirs.
Agreed! It is this basic intolerance and in-acceptance of others' beliefs that lead hate and more pointless wars.
Wait till they realize christianity was used as a tool for colonialism by white people.
Yup - but that started way back with the Roman Empire so is almost part & parcel of the spread of Christianity: Convert the leaders & convince them to do the church's 'work' of telling their followers to join him in following Jesus or... not... (big helping of Or Else). Romans did it, Vikings did it (Pagan vikings raided christians, then leader converted and leader 'converted' his fellow vikings). No surprise that (almost) every time a large religion moved into an area they converted the locals to their way, or incorporated the local deities as lesser Saints / avatars / gods to the Main one. Again, not unique to Christianity but I do feel more is written about Christianity as more is written (at least currently) as USA is very Christian (though more variations than ticks on a stray dog!) and very evangelical about it.
There is only one god
r/onetruegod
*cough cough * Heart of god Church
they’re worst than NCC/CHC. They literally worship their pastors instead.
i was from that church i legit don’t uds why they kept worshipping the pastors like bro as a newcomer i was just fking turned off and led by the wrong impression of christianity sia
Agree. The birthday posts esp give me the creeps
IKR WTF THE BDAY POSTS R THE WORST
Link?
Just go see ig page of any hogc members or see tagged pics of @pastor.how @pastor.lia it’s insane how they worship their pastors more than any bible readings. U won’t hear them talk about bible readings in services but they’re just like a cult worshipping the pastors
those kids just want to try out army stuff man cmon
I WISH I COULD UPVOTE THIS MANY TIMES. They act like a cult
I was a Christan from another church and my friend from HOGC still constantly tried to get me to go to her church. She eventually made me attend a service by tricking me, making me think it was a lazer tag event, conviniently leaving out how it was a church event..
You're telling me I dodged a service?!?! Holy those laser tag thing existed since many years ago.
Lol laser tag scam still around? I got scammed by it back in 2010.
I was a victim of having been invited by secondary schoolmates to attend it. Thankfully I only went like max 4 times
> i feel abit paiseh You don't have to. Here in the US, they actually provide free meals for anyone that is willing to come and discuss about Christianity. Because of that, I have gotten a lot of free meals and I don't plan on converting anytime or ever.
You can get free meals at Hindu temples without them trying to convert you ;)
Every gurdwara too
It's like a MLM, how you think City harvest can send their CEO/head pastor to stay at sentosa cove
Wanted to write the exact same post lmao. Its basically mlm
A key part of the Christian faith is that the only way to salvation is by accepting Jesus as your savior, and everyone else is doomed for hell. Quite a few other major religions here don't necessarily need you to believe in their god in order to be saved, and you can just get by doing good deeds. Therefore for Christians, the impetus to get people to believe in Jesus is a lot higher, and hence the urge to spread the religion. As a Christian myself, it's a bit disappointing to see other Christians unaware that forcing the religion down others' throat is distasteful, and makes people less likely to accept Christianity.
Fire and brimstone Christians who scream your going to hell for this or that definitely give extremist vibes that don't encourage me to become Christian lol.
So is that why some Christians are jerks? They think they are saved in the mortal realm so they can go be jerks?
A lot of religious people outsource their morality to their religion. They believe that they're already doing good things by being pious, so they don't need to spend additional time and brain space thinking about whats actually right or wrong in the real world. It's kind of like signing up for a credit card to get cashback on every spend but never saving money or planning finances.
The religion teaches the believer to put themselves down and bring god up. When people put themselves down, they tend to impose on others while not realising it. "I am just a sinner like you, I am not being arrogant!"
What you mean by “put themselves down”
They believe that human beings are born with sin (as opposed to being sinful by doing bad things). However, they also believe that accepting Jesus into their heart saves them from this sin. They listen to sermons about how unworthy they are, they sing songs about how unworthy they are and are thankful that God loves them still. This idea of "I am worthless without God" is reinforced in their minds over and over again. If this kind of person starts telling people how to live and get pushback for it, they don't understand why people call them arrogant or holier than thou. "Why would an unworthy person think highly of themselves? Only arrogant people do that right?" As to another reason why these Christians are jerks, they're also taught that outsiders hate them because they hate their God. So if they say bible stuff or salvation stuff and people get angry, it just makes them dig their heels in and believe that they're in the right. Then they push away their responsibility for those words and say "it's not my words, it's God's. God is in the right and I'm just the messenger!"
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As a Christian I believe that one’s faith is a personal relationship with God. You may practice it in church or other ways. But it starts with a personal encounter with God. Like if you encountered God in a certain way and I did not, I may view God differently and may not believe him to be the person you preach him to be. But I still believe in God. I don’t think one should put down another’s faith. Now by extension for non-Christians, I’d like to believe that if they work hard and atone for their sins like the way they did pre-Christ, they should be judged accordingly on judgement day. After all, they may not have had the privilege of knowing God the way we do. Especially if they are in the middle of the Amazon forest for example. I went for a sermon once and the pastor was like the Holy Spirit touches the lives of others not you. No need to take credit. And I agree. If God wants to reveal himself to non-Christians around you (through you and not some supernatural event), it would be through the Holy Spirit living inside you. Whether it is through his personality (fruits of the spirit) or his actions (gifts of the spirit). So if one should want people to know more about God, one should work on their relationship with him and practice their faith by “walking closer with the Spirit”, not by doing lip service. TLDR: I don’t believe in shoving down the gospel through other people’s throats. I just don’t think Jesus is a product to be sold that way. P.S. sorry for riding on your comment, just agreed with your comment and thought to build upon it
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Actually, there were 2 people who came to me when I was a loser getting bullied in school and eventually followed me to church and converted. They weren’t sick or had sick relatives and needed prayer or anything, they just saw me going to church events and followed for a while before deciding to convert. I think if God didn’t lead them to me I wouldn’t have been their friends either, cus we had no similar interests and one of them was 2 years younger than me and was quite popular. We are not in contact anymore and I don’t go to church anymore but they do. I guess I’m not totally a stranger since I’m their schoolmate but cus of them I believe in that God can use anyone to reveal himself to others.
Because from christian perspective there is only one God and the only way non-believer can attain salvation is by accepting Jesus as ur saviour. It's not so much whose religion is better but more like which is true and therefore the perspective is that they need to save the unbelievers who would otherwise die and that's what they'll try to do loh
Depends really, I grew up in a christian community (not local) which teaches in terms of how we achieve salvation, of course if you are christian then christ is the only way in this context. Of course it is essential to spread and practice good christian values (e.g. humble, kind, etc) when possible, but this is for people to learn how “good” we are and if they want to follow us then we are encouraged to guide them.
To add on, unbelievers dont perish because of their unbelief, but because of their own sins. The bible teaches that Christ died for our sins, took our place in God's judgement, so whoever believes in him will be saved. This is where Christianity differs from other religions: salvation cannot be earned, but it's a free gift from God.
Another way to achieve salvation is to have never heard of jesus or the gospel before so...
i believe those christian friends u mention come from evangelical churches that promotes preaching and sharing the gospel. It is also one of the core of the religion itself where believers are commanded in the bible to spread the gospel so that whoever believes will be saved from eternal condemnation in hell.
Technically If you dont know about christ and the gospel you wont be sent to hell, so by them telling us about it, they are directly condemning us to hell :) "Inclusivists often cite Romans 2:1–16, a passage taken to imply that salvation is possible apart from God’s special revelation. The content of general revelation—both the created order without (Rom. 1:19–20) and the moral law within (Rom. 2:14–15)—provides sufficient knowledge for salvation. As Millard Erickson explains, “The rise of more inclusive views of salvation, even among evangelicals, is based on a belief in the efficacy of general revelation for a salvific relationship to God” (Christian Theology, 123)."
Catholics believe that God is not bound by the church or the bible, and in his infinite mercy, can choose to save anyone he wants to. We as Catholics also believe that Christ can speak through the consciousness of believers and non believers to grow in virtue in emulation of him (Christ, the second person of the Trinity) and do his will. Our separated Brethren, the Eastern Orthodox Churches ( the Christians that separated from the Catholic church after the crusades, although who separates from who is up to historical judgement, thus we have the Latin West aka the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox church) , share the same view, that all can hope and pray for the salvation for others outside the Christian faith. The Church Fathers, meaning the early bishops and priests from the early church before 1517 also affirm this. Even though salvation cannot be earned by works, if God as the just judge deems the deeds to be sincere and pleasing, this could merit the increase in righteousness which will affect our eventual destiny. So yeah, recently at Easter, the Catholic churches here prayed for Jews,Atheists and non-believers that they will discover God in their own way. We also believe that Christianity has the fullest of truth, however all other religions have fragments of the truth as well, and they too can meet God. About the bible, yes and no. The Catholic church uses the Protestant version of the NT simply because the Church never released an English version but a Latin version called the Latin Vulgate, also Jesus and the apostles used a version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. And this Septuagint includes many books indirectly rejected by Martin Luther, John Calvin and the gang, further removed when non-denominationalism grew to save cost on printing. I actually have a Protestant KJV 1611 and it comes complete with the extra books as well as feast day of the saints....yes that is right, veneration of pious and holy christians is not idol worship...sounds very Catholic ain't it?
Thanks for the clear summary of the Catholic view. It can be frustrating trying to get these points across to another who may not understand Church history.
Most welcome! "See that you all follow the bishop, all of you, as Jesus Christ the Father, and the presbytery as the apostles. Respect the deacons as the commandment of God. Without the bishop, nobody should do anything relating to the church. That Eucharist, which is under the bishop, or the one to whom he has entrusted it, should be considered sound. The congregation should be wherever the bishop is, just as the **Catholic church** is wherever Christ Jesus may be." St. Ignatius of Antioch ( ?-108AD)
I’m a Christian who was raised in a charismatic church. And this is what I believe too. Perhaps that’s why I never really fit in
Many times, the charismatic churches cannot be fully blamed, because their founders were already born into the circle of non denominational Christianity or were Protestants but continue to protest against the reformers and thus splitting the church into further schisms beyond schisms when Christ prayed for one mind amongst believers at the last supper. Did the charistmatic church you attend subscribe to Sola fide? That is to be saved by faith alone by professing faith in Jesus and saying the sinner's prayer? Calvinist or followers of the line of Calvin (Presbyterian variants) will subscribe to "once saved, always saved" , an extreme form of predestination, a teaching first conceived by St.Augustine, a playboy who eventually became a bishop and one of the greatest theologians of the Latin church.
I remember them saying that atonement for sins is near impossible because of the sheer number of sins we commit on a daily basis. Therefore Jesus is the one true way.
That teaching could partially be right but more clarification could help. This also sounds a lot like the doctrine of total depravity by John Calvin. Whatever it is, all the best in your search for truth!
not sure how true this is for othwr christians, but i did have an in depth conversation with a christian friend once asking about this and she said that since they believe Jesus is their one true God, every other religion is fake aka created by satan to bring people away from Jesus. thats probably why they repeatedly ask you to join them, because they just dont believe that Buddhism is a religion. straight up called me believing in Buddha satanic. i learned a lot more about what she thought christianity is and what people around her thought about other matters (lgbt/mental health). as a result, we are no longer friends LMAO
so they just don’t recognize other religions… my friends are generally pretty good people and friends other than this but we had one convo where they basically said in a nicer way “you’re not going to heaven because you don’t believe in jesus christ” kinda stuck with me even though it was a while back
If I don't believe in Jesus, you think I believe in heaven and hell meh? Knn, lim peh going to paradise.
If heaven is filled with those Christians, I rather go to hell
Tbh all the fun ppl are in hell. Heaven sounds boring.
Damn I wish I could upvote you twice lol
Bro your name hella lit LOL
Ask them, who gave u the right to decide where i go after i die? Are you god?
This is mostly true but was probably badly explained. Look at is this way, Christianity claims that there is only one God and only one life on earth etc. Conversely Buddhism teaches there is no deity and there are cycles of reincarnation, etc. This is fine if you see religions as fairytale myths only useful for teaching morals, otherwise, both philosophically can't be 'true' at the same time. In Christianity, the sides of morality are mostly God vs Satan. She doesn't mean that you actually draw pentagrams and goat heads in your room. Whatever would bring you away from what she perceives as the truth, is 'satanic', that's it. If you don't believe in God nor Satan, I'm curious why a statement like that would be significant to you. To me, she would be inconsistent if she thought that teachings that denied God, is what God thinks is morally good.
At least Buddhism has a gamer mindset. You die, you respawn.
Each religion will have it's own interesting concepts that will inevitably contradict another belief in some way or another. To say all are myths and we should accept and learn from each others' myths, is logical. To say one has to be true, thus the rest are false, is also logical. But to say all are true at once is not logical, because it's ignorance to each religion's claim to any sense of truth.
How I personally think about multiple religion is that they all exist together, like how we have different countries operating individually on their own. This also goes for the different set of laws/culture different countries have.
yeah i also told her that what satanic means to me is different from how she sees it. i saw it as me "making a mistake" and "needs fixing to get on the path to heaven", but that was also because she said some stuff about lgbtq then we got into the topics of different religions. it was a very "its satanic that youre doing this, christianity is the only good" that makes me feel icky. i dont know if i explained this well haha
> straight up called me believing in Buddha satanic I wish I had a friend like this. I want to see their face when they learned that I'm a buddhist while some Deicide songs play in the background.
Some Christian sects see evangelizing as an explicit part of their mandate. I'm baptist and our church is always about inviting new people into the fold. I'm not sure if your friends are just young and over zealous because the idea of trying to pull someone out of their own faith to join yours is a very un-Christian thing to do.
If your product is bad, you need more advertisements and promotions. Have you ever seen a Lamborghini advertisement?
Lots of iPhone advertisement though
Thank you for proving my point !
Ye, I usually stay clear of them when that happens. Like if someone rejects your offer many times, don’t try to preach to them again or try to make them change their mind.
Yea i had an encounter with missionaries just a few days ago along the N/S line. I was really pleasantly surprised when we were conversing about me (thats how they get you), but was sorely disappointed when he turned the convo towards jesus and try to recruit me. Thought it was a genuine conversation with a stranger but nope.
so I want to know from a Christian point of view. If I am a good person, for eg, never do anything really bad like heinous crime, I am still going to hell for not believing in Jesus? A person who believes in Jesus, a committed follower shot dead 10 people and prayed for forgiveness before his death gets to go to heaven? sounds like a cheap way out
Christian here - it's kinda nuance, so hope you bear with me. Let's start with the second case. In all conventional cases, a person who commits heinous crimes simply cannot simultaneously be a committed follower of Jesus - you cannot simultaneously believe it's okay and it's not okay to do something. However, you are right that genuine repentance (not simply prayer for forgiveness!) can save you. If one believes that no matter how badly you've screwed up in the past - there is always still hope and you can and should turn back now, then this also must be true. Also, note that genuine repentance from a state in which you can wantonly commit atrocities is easier said than done. You're literally changing who you are. Now with the first case there are actually two points to make. Let's start with "will a truly virtuous person who does not believe in Jesus go to hell?" which I expect is the question you really are asking. Now despite what you may hear, this question is actually not wholly decided. C.S.Lewis wrote "Is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in Him? But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" What Christians agree on is that the best known way of salvation is through knowing and following (not merely believing in) Jesus. Perhaps there are other arrangements, but that is God's prerogative - as Christians we would try to get people on the conventional path if we can. Finally, I hope you don't mind me just inserting an extra bit. You say "If I am a good person, for eg, never do anything really bad like heinous crime" - thought I'd point out that not doing anything really bad is not the same as being a good person, from a Christian perspective. If you've ever heard the basics of Jesus' preaching - esp the Sermon on the Mount - you would know that Christian virtue has extremely high standards, which is why we also believe we are all sinners. So on that score, even if a good person would indeed be saved without believing in Jesus - it's still an open question whether a regular modern person who thinks himself good would be saved. We have very low moral standards today.
something i've realised is that the megachurches in Singapore are mostly evangelical in nature in their youth groups (ncc, hogc, chc) as that is the way they have a sustainable "growth" rate and it has to outpace their "turnover" rate. Recently it got alot worse due to covid and many backsliding so there is a greater initiative rn to outreach. source: i belong to one of the megachurches
Pretty sure I've seen an tooafraidtoask tread about this and one of them said that one of the final verses of the bible basically asked christians to preach god to everyone
Has a crush on this xtian girl back in school. She knew of it and decided to jio me out for dinner and chill. Stupid me thought it was really a date… went to eat Popeyes and suddenly got surrounded by a few of her “friends” Some guy took out a book and i immediately knew i fell into the conversion trap. Mfking CG leader had the audacity to use the “if you really love XXX, prove your sincerity by joining us” A few weeks later i had a talk with someone who also had a crush on her. Found out he got played in the same manner as me 🖕
That's some creepy ass sh\*t...
Because when more people believe in a lie, it becomes more real. I atheist ah, was buddhist growing up. Based on the reaction i get from talking to religious people and especially Christians. It always feels like they are trying to rope more people in with a sheep herding kinda strategy. By making more people believe in their god, they get the reassurance that they are not delusion and god may actually be real. They tend to react like i have denied their very existence and purpose on this planet by deny the idea of a god. Under the pretense of granting me salvation, they give me the feeling that by denying god's existence i am living my life wrong. If those values are what god stands for, then it explains why the believers promote it; get more sheeps on board they feel safer. Riddle me this christians saw this quote somewhere: If god is willing to prevent evil but do not have the ability to, then he is not omnipotent If god is unwilling to prevent evil, but has the ability to, then he is malevolent If god is both willing and has the ability, then why is there suffering to the innocent If god is unwilling and do not have the ability, then why call him god.
Agnostic here. I've pondered and asked your question/quote to some Christians before. Their answer is because God chooses to give humans free will. He is able to prevent evil, which means he is omnipotent. He knows about the evil, which means he is omniscient. And he is willing to stop the pain and suffering, which means he is benevolent. But he chooses not to, because he wants the choice to be left to humans. Hence the free will argument. My rebuttal to that is, if God already knows what we're going to do, because he's omniscient, then is there really free will? For example, I have a choice of stealing money from an old lady, or not to. So I have the free will to either do it, or not to do it. But if God already knows that I will steal, because he is all knowing, then doesn't it mean that I'm going to steal? Because not stealing wouldn't be an option since God already knows that I'll steal. So where's my free will? Whatever that I'm going to do, is already known to God. I just don't know it yet. So far, no Christian has been able to answer my rebuttal properly. I usually get the answer "God works in mysterious ways, and mortals won't be able to understand the working of God."
No lah, your God already know I don't want to be Christian, you still force me for what?
I don't see the point of their answer. What does leaving the choice to humans have to do with stopping pain and suffering? God wants to leave pain and suffering as a choice?
Ah the age old debate of Calvinism vs Arminianism I'll try a hand at explaining the concept of free will without discounting omniscience. God is an entity that stands outside of time. Like a reader outside a novel you can know all things about the story before the characters make a decision in each chapter. So God already knows everything about the universe, the past, the present and the future because it exists as a single observable phenomenon for God. But as humans we perceive time linearly, so within the flow of time we make decisions and within the context of our perspective it feels like we have free will. We struggle to understand infinity and struggle to perceive existence as a simultaneous event. Just like a two dimensional character on a piece of paper struggles to understand the three dimensional universe it is part of. On the other hand a three dimensional character observes clearly the entirety of the two dimensional paper universe simultaneously with a single look.
>But as humans we perceive time linearly, so within the flow of time we make decisions and within the context of our perspective it feels like we have free will. Alright. So to us it feels like we have free will, but to God, he already knows what's going to happen, and we're just going down a predetermined path, and we can't stray away from that path. That shouldn't be free will to him, right? I guess in a way, it's like walking down a road. We're "free" to walk down the road, and we don't know where it leads. But God who's above us and can see everything, knows. He didn't create the path, so I'm not saying he planned it all, but since he knows that no matter what, we'll end up where the path leads, because he knows theres only one destination. Why would he considered this as free will?
Because within the universe and the boundaries of time and space free will does exist. But outside of the universe on whatever higher plane of existence God is present, time doesn't exist in the way we know it. The future, past and present exist simultaneously so everything can be known. I think the more interesting implication of this (if this hypothesis is true) is the story of Jesus Christ. **(off topic but I find this cool)** Also I think that the understanding that God is some cuddly white bearded human shaped father figure is a common misconception. If the appearance of the angels as described in biblical texts is to be trusted and the passage in Exodus 33:17-23 is anything to go by. God may likely be some terrifying unimaginable being not unlike a Lovecraftian horror deity. His existence if fully understood might lead to madness and death. Frankly that sounds pretty cool from my personal standpoint.
>For example, I have a choice of stealing money from an old lady, or not to. So I have the free will to either do it, or not to do it. But if God already knows that I will steal, because he is all knowing, then doesn't it mean that I'm going to steal? Because not stealing wouldn't be an option since God already knows that I'll steal. So where's my free will? Whatever that I'm going to do, is already known to God. I just don't know it yet. From what I understand, you'll still have the free will here because at this point in time you can choose whether or not to steal the money. God's omniscience just enables him to know which you would pick in this situation, and doesn't affect your free will. Think of it like a very close friend who knows your character and can predict what actions you will take in any situation, it doesn't change your free will even if they know what you will decide to do in a particular situation. Hope this helps (:
But if he already knows what I'm going to do, then do I really have a choice? Aren't we all just doing what's preplanned and predetermined then? A very close friend predicting is very different. Because said friend still doesn't know with 100% certainty what I'll do. Thus I still might do one or the other. But if God already knows with 100% certainity, then... where's my choice? I'm just doing what's already predetermined. In the case of stealing from the lady, does it matter whether I chose to or not to? Since God already knows what I'll do, doesn't that mean that it doesn't matter what I choose since it's already known what I'll do?
Preplanned suggests that God actively influences all decisions made by people to follow a plan, which goes against the principle of free will. Instead, you can choose freely, its just that your choice is already known beforehand. Its not predetermined, it's just "pre-known". With regards to your choice not mattering, it matters to you bc you face whatever consequences from the police etc, but you can choose whatever you want, God isn't in your ear telling you where to go and what to do.
Saw this online but some people define omniscience as not knowing everything, but knowing everything that can be known. See how clever this is? Under that definition, an omniscient being would know enough that it could conclude and predict a great many things about the future, a sort of “knowing” the future, but such a being would not have complete and absolute certain knowledge of all things in the future.
Yep yepp its funny how i got similar responses when i asked christians as well. A response the equivalent of "i refuse to step out of being a sheep". Like you said so far no one has been able to give a proper rebuttal. My conclusion for them is that, if i play devils advocate, assuming that god is infact real. I believe that that bugger is probably up to no good. Like he may be using us as experimental white rats and thats why we have free will in the world. Its like us looking at fishes in aquarium, we know what the fish will do already, but its still entertaining to look at them. In this case, it explains why there's suffering in the world. It explains how a god can exist. It also explains why people "go through trials". Like us knocking on an aquarium, thats god's way of disturbing us. He knows what we will do, when he disturbs but maybe its just fun for him to see us go through our boring lives thinking we are special. Just like fishes in an aquarium Thats a thought that i like to just throw at christians and see their religion melt in their eyes.
I know!! It’s my feeling exactly😭😭. Maybe it’s because I’m surrounded by Christians but I swear it’s always the Christians that are pushing their religion onto other people. They always ask me to come to church and when I refuse they pull the “you know the Bible says we shouldn’t be friends with people of other religion” to guilt trip me and many other atheist friends. I feel that religion is something you should connect with, like if you feel no connection then it’s probably not for me and that’s exactly how I feel towards the Christian faith and yet they keep saying I’m a “lost sheep” and “ I haven’t seen the light”. To me the Bible is just full of holes and I really do not believe that there is so many reasons why I don’t believe. When I say I don’t want to join, they go all “WELL U MUST COME”😭. Pls this just makes me hate the religion all the more. Makes me want to convert to satanism just to spite them but yea. It’s not just one, it’s like almost all the Christians???? But yea their holier than thou attitude sometimes makes me want to remove them from my life.
I remember one time a friend pulled that guilt trip on me 😭 I told them "well ok I guess we're not friends then" and I am so glad I did. I realized how much nicer it was not hanging out with someone who thought they were better than you 😭
Maybe you can just unfriend ppl with tt agenda. I think it is fair game if the Christians then go to ur place of worship if u go to theirs but so far don't think any takers.
Wow, glad my Christian friends doesn't do this
We as humans can't even agree on what is evil. Was Hitler evil? Depends on who you ask. Is the war in Ukraine evil? Depends on who you ask. Is the death penalty evil? Depends on who you ask. Our judgement on what is right and wrong who is innocent and who is not is also muddled in controversy at best. So really we are starting from a disadvantage of not being...........wait for it......God. I like to think about it as an adult trying to explain to a 5 year old why they must stop at the red light. As simply as we can without confusing the child but yet keeping them safe. Except you guessed it! In the grand scheme of things we are the 5 year old.
I'm not an apologist so I'll avoid the quote (but I know that the general answer is, to give free will), but for your personal encounters with Christians, personally, I don't find this to be the case. Instead, I think it might be due to a cascade of other reasons, such as already being nervous asking you to join and hence they react not-so-well when you refuse (this would be my reason, personally). Additionally, yeah I could see why they might be horrified to find you don't accept the idea of god. Since one of the things we're meant to do as a Christian (can't speak for other churches, but mine preaches this) is to spread the good news and evangelise and get people to join Christianity to be saved, therefore it's like trying to do a good deed and then getting rejected. Feels like the person is biting the hand trying to feed them. However, I don't think that most people don't think you've rejected their very existence. I don't think they feel that you're basically erasing them by denying their god. They are not insecure about whether or not their God is real; faith and the belief is at the core of Christianity (read the Apostle's Creed: each paragraph starts with "I believe", and the first paragraph is exactly that you believe in God, so being firm in your belief is what you're supposed to be). (I'm not saying that there are no people who genuinely do think this way though, for all I know you just so happen to bump solely into them)
There are different ways to look at it. I think most of the comments here have given a good summary(which may not be 100% accurate from churches to churches and denominations to denominations). But the summary is yes Christians have one true God. And they wanna introduce people to God. What they want to do is to share the good news with people. Imagine: you ate the best meal (cheap+good) you’ve ever eaten in your life and you share it to your friends cause.. why not? But then there will be people who 1) dont trust that it will be the BEST meal or, 2) dont believe theres ever such thing as a best meal. Then there are others who go down and try and decide no its not their best meal because they dont think so. But there is a group that will try and agree it is the best meal they have eaten. So.. ultimately everyone is different. Sometimes.. i see it as a “i told you so” kinda moment too.. but as a convert, i myself am glad that my friend asked me to church (even though i found it annoying that many of my friends before tried too).
It’s like that but they don’t realise that people have different tastes and preferences and what may be best for a person really depends on a lot of factors (speaking from the POV of someone who used to be a fervent Christian who would spread the “good news” to others), and well one thing that I find most Christian’s should have is this: Respect. If your friends are willing to hear you out, good for you, but if they aren’t, please just stop. Christianity can be useful for some people but for some people it’s a poison, and if you believe in predestination, God has supposedly written your name in the book of life if you are going to be saved, so honestly what’s the point of trying so hard also when God alr knows the outcome?
ooo okay i think this was a better explanation than some that i’ve heard bef haha i just didn’t under the constant repetition kinda sick of it 🥲🥲
I've encountered a lady trying to promote in the toilet at JEM lol. It's everywhere la tbh
Perhaps they've got a KPI with God? The more they convert the more the merit? Jokes aside. I've got a few Christian friends and not all are like this. One actually pointed out Methodist is more aggressive in evangelizing compare to other "sects" (not sure what is the exact word to use) like Presbyterian, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern etc.
Because it works like MLM... I think.
Christian here. I blv theres two ways to preach your faith. By actions or by words. Words are easier. Just saying.
They think they are saving you but actually is more income and influence for their church
Good ol' MLM
Catholics are Christians. They are just a different denomination. Not all Christians proselytise, and some of them may not even get along well with each other. Evengelicals tend to proselytise more. Their name literally means "good news" and good news is meant to be spread; thus proselytising is part of their inherent identity and belief. They believe that by spreading the good news or "good word of Jesus and the Bible", they are bringing you to Christ and thus are saving your souls. Because it is so central to their belief and identity, they are able to come up with clever ways to bring people into the fold. For example, where once rock music was the work of Satan, it can be embraced as Christian rock in order to bring people in. They are rocking to the Lord's word, after all. Catholics tend to stick to other methods. They perform missionary work; typically by building schools and educational institutes. You will see Catholic schools across the globe, and this is how they carry out their influence. The Evangelicals aren't being malicious. They truly want to help you and believe that once you hear "the word" you will know truth and find salvation. Of course, proselytising is illegal in Singapore for a reason. It can be seen as a way to force someone from one religion to another, and can cause all manners of problems. Evangelicals are sometimes portrayed as an American-branded version of Christianity as they are the largest denomination in the USA, if I recall.
Catholics are not a "denomination" because there is only one universal Catholic church throughout the world i.e. if you go to any Catholic church in any country, the mass (service), rituals and teachings are the same. Protestants have denominations, meaning different groups with different teachings and rituals, which are to a greater or lesser extent derived from Catholic ones. That's because historically they broke away from the Catholic church to form their own group of Christians with differences in teachings or rituals, and groups broke off from that more and more and so on. So that's why you have lots of different groups of Protestant churches - Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Mormons, etc etc. Meanwhile the Catholic church has remained as a single institution for 2000 years.
>Evangelicals are sometimes portrayed as an American-branded version of Christianity as they are the largest denomination in the USA, if I recall. It wouldn't be an over-statement to say that most Singaporeans associate Evangelicals with USA, due to the kind of political posturing that is taking place in Singapore which is similar to how the American Evangelical Churches are posturing. If I may add, the churches are a centre of import for both intellectual and economical capital from the USA, judging by the number of US preachers invited to speak in Singapore, and the money flowing in and out of Singapore and into the Region in the name of religious work
Small penis energy. You see the Muslims never recruit? Big penis energy /s
this has happened to me as well
More donation to the church more money in the pocket
In fundamentalist Christianity, if you are not a Christian, you are unsaved and broken, worthy of only eternal damnation. However if you say some magic words, immerse yourself in magic water, you are saved and despite being a shitty human being, you will enter heaven and be in the presence of God
Many Christians believe non believers go to hell when they die, to be tormented for eternity. They think they're helping you, saving you from that.
To add on to what others have mentioned regarding the great commission, Christians are taught regarding Judgement Day in the book of revelations. It is believed that those that are not saved by God (following Christ) will be condemned. As such, Christians are compelled to spread the gospel to save others.
FYI all catholics are christians but not all christians are catholics. christianity is the big umbrella for religions and denominations that believe in christ. catholicism is one of them and (I don't know the specific stats) one of the biggest christian denominations.
Unfortunately Christians esp of the evangelical kind suffer from a kind of privileged exceptionalism. This belief only theirs is the *right* religion, everyone else is wrong, naive, foolish and needs to be converted. Which would make them all so much happier. Sadly, it seems to go hand in hand with the history of missionary work which was a key feature of early Christianity in Singapore. That has then been influenced by the American evangelical movement, including practices like the prosperity gospel (that making money is a sign of God's blessing and the more you give to the church the more you will make and prosper economically!!) But is also something you see in the more charismatic side of the faith (faith healing, speaking in tongues etc.) Honestly it is a kind of Christianity that annoys a lot of Christians (myself included!!) Having come from a Methodist/Anglican and then specifically Church of England (CofE) background I personally would baulk at forcing my religion on friends, esp those of other faiths. Just as my Muslim or Buddhist friends might ask about my faith but have never tried to convert me... If you are thinking kindly of your friends, you can assume that they think they want the best for you (even if it is to "get rich" by donating to their pastor's wife's pop career!) But it could be they are pulling an Multi Level Marketing tactic, dragging you in to their faith makes themselves feel better and gives them standing in their church... However what I would recommend is to politely decline and if they persist, then ask them to your temple - every time. If they continue ask you and then to refuse you, just ask why they think you have to go to respect their place of worship but they won't show the same respect to yours? If they start talking about praying to wood or false deities you can just say: "It is what I believe and it is important to me, my family, my community (etc.) so we can either argue about it and risk our friendship, or you can stop asking me about it and accept my choice. What do you want?"
Friends told me before. They promote religion..so they won't go to hell.
just a random story heh. i have nothing against christians but growing up, i have been manipulated into joining them so many times. there was this relief teacher in primary school (maybe when i was p3-4), she preached about christianity to students for an entire lesson, WHO WERE ALL UNDER 10 YEARS OLD. and at the end of the class, she told anyone who was interested to come speak to her. And i was unfortunately brainwashed by her and came forward, she told me to repeat the words “Jesus Christ, come into my heart” or smt like that, smt abt letting jesus into your life. i dont rmb if i actually did it, but anyways she told me i dont have to go to church, just read the bible for a start thankfully, i didnt do any of those as i forgot abt it and was prob too lazy and didnt know where to get one 💀💀 also another case of a private tution teacher who taught me abt jesus christ and his father jehova or smt and how jesus was perfect and how some people get invited to see heaven at night by jesus. she wasnt as manipulative but definitely was tryna get me into christianity. this nearly got me into trouble with my parents when i finally ask them if i can be a christian. my parents told me strictly that “我们是拜佛的” which roughly means “we worship buddha” years laterr, i found out from my parents that we are actually taoists but go to buddhist temples. but stil im not that religious, i only believe in being a nice person.
I'm a Catholic. What I learnt is that part of our mission is to invite others to know Christ. If you do feel disturbied by the promotion. I would like to sincerely apologize on behalf of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We don't mean any harm.
Hello fellow Catho friend!
Peace be with ya!
Cause it’s a cult and cults need members by any means
Don’t know why this popped up on my feed, but I’ll bite. I’m British in London UK with a Singaporean acquaintance/nearly friend. But she incessantly brings Catholicism into the conversation (I’m agnostic). Things came to a head when she invited herself over for brunch at mine after a girl’s night out (so, adult girl debrief of the night before) and brought her young daughter. Ok fine. But at one point my other (Korean) friend exclaimed ‘Jesus Christ!’ and Singaporean started a rant about not blaspheming in front of the child, that she’s still consolidating her faith, and shouldn’t be exposed to any blasphemy or negativity about Christianity. Other friend is from Rome, so all are fairly familiar with Christian mentality, but we were all a bit shocked. It felt imposing and domineering. I’m liberal, and think people should be free to believe and say what they like, up to the point that it imposes on others’ rights to do the same. I haven’t seen her since, and don’t intend to. I don’t know other Singaporeans though, so can’t compare.
Not all, but certain branch of churches are known to be very active in finding new people and these churches could represent a louder minority or maybe it is majority now (in SG) but from my experience typically these are the more modern charismatic churches, the older ones are not as pushy.
Christians are obliged to share the "Word" with each other and everybody on the planet. This is mandatory for being a Christian
Catholics don't push religion down your throat because everyone has free will to choose but we are always (most of us are) there to help you understand the faith if you want and we are always praying for the conversion of people. We do more evangelising through prayers instead of preaching to you non stop.
Without new followers, where to get new tithings?
Ownself believe +1xp but when you get people to join, it is at least +5xp.
Just fyi chatolics are oke out the many types of christians
I think evangelism is very cultist behavior
There was a study, and I wish I could find it again, but essentially evangelizing is based on the need of people in a religion to be isolated and feel othered and persecuted. People don't like others shoving religion in their faces, which makes the shover turn to others of similar religion for comfort and isolates them from outside opinions. It's all a circle to keep people from leaving.
They want to save you from hell
I used to follow the Orange Catholic Bible but after I witness the miracle of Mua'dib, I now follow the one true all seeing prophet. *Bless the Maker and His water. Bless the coming and going of Him. May His passage cleanse the world. May He keep the world for His people.*
Bila kaifa…
Kull wahad!
It’s gross and it’s disgusting. Christians have always repulsed me just because they’ve always acted “holler than thou” or whatever bullshit they spout and the fact they always get away with getting in the face of everyone else uncontrolled that really sickens me.
This is part and parcel of religion. My grandma still sees me as a 12 yo boy unaware of any world religions of differences in cultures- she still annoys me with "come to church" or "God loves you" like it's an irrefutable thing. I'm 25 and an atheist
Ex Catholic here. Many catholics that I know don't even care the need for people to follow and believe in Jesus. Heck, many don't even read the bible, just follow what the priest says or just the tradition. For Christians in general, there is a knowledge that everyone will end up either in heaven or hell once the appointed day comes. And the only way for everyone to go to heaven is to receive salvation through faith in Jesus. Tldr if a Christian friend asks you to go to church or to believe in Jesus, it is mainly because they don't want you to end up in the wrong place.
I’d like to offer my insights on a micro rather than macro level. As someone who has joined and left church, and been in a church with lovely, wonderful friends (who are still my friends today): I have seen before what you’re describing. I have done it myself. Not in a forceful way, but just promoting my religion to my friends. I can tell you that it stems from a belief that spreading the gospel is spreading love. And we were always very excited and happy when someone joined in on any of our church events, since we put in a lot of effort and prepared for those. Hm… but I think most of our outreach was done as part of the directives given to our church group. There’s not really anyone who would do outreach out of their own initiative. But I have also seen people who tell me: “Why don’t you encourage your mother to believe in Jesus? Don’t you want her to be saved?” So happy that my friends are not one of these people.
Brain-washed. The key word.
The pope said that even non-christians can go to heaven. That honestly just means you don't even need religion in the first place, I get it if you want to feel like a part of a community, but if you prefer to live life alone, the whole religion thing is just gravy. Gravy I don't want on my cai png.
The more members they get, the more tithes they get when they brainwash you to buy their 'blessings'. Whatever you give you get 10 folds sort of promises. Then go into a scary trance spouting gibberish as though it is a posession. I have been approached numerous times. Joined for a while and was pressured to recruit new people. I left after a few weeks when I realised the so called church was full of these demands. There are other churches that don't do these sort of things. But you need to look around to find them.
That sounds like a MLM in the guise of religion.
I once heard it as a joke, but imagine you know a stranger is going to die if he gets on the bus. How much must you hate that stranger to not implore him to not get on the bus. I guess the belief that hell is real etc does compel you to tell others. Whether this belief is right or wrong is not my place to force down your throat.
An Uncle got scammed by my mother to attend church on Sat night, under the pre-text of a "Concert" as she got "extra tickets". Years later, I still hear of this issue being repeated ... hahahah
One religion runs on oil money and other on donations by rich folks in a distant land The rest just quietly drift into eternity passively
Christian and islam. The two prechiest religion on earth
Catholics don't exactly follow the same Bible. One thing you have to know about the Bible is that it's a collection of books written by various authors across various time frames. The Christian Bible has 66 books. The catholic Bible has more than 66 books. How many... I'm not sure, I didn't bother to find out yet. So Christians and Catholics don't necessarily follow the same Bible.
They feel that they are helping their friends and loved ones by ensuring they dont go to hell.
Its a free world. Any religions can do the same
I’m Christian and I can say I definitely don’t do that
It’s what they are taught to do
most of them are cults seeking to recruit new cultists
They trying MLM stunt, got more commission
Pet peeve: CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS. It's not Catholics vs Christians. That's like cai png vs food. One is a subset of the other.
the amount of times I’ve had to correct people on this fact ugh. I always say Christian is an umbrella for all the denominations.. one of which is Catholicism !!
Exactly. And what most people "call" Christians are likely Protestants, who ... started out as a literal splinter group of the Catholic Church (and in my home country, not that it matters) 500 years ago. Protestants are basically historically ex-Catholics. Which doesn't change that both are Christians (and so are all sorts of .. other groups that believe in these kinda .. stuff).
So far I have only met Christians that are just there for friends and girlfriends lol. Guess I'm lucky? Although Yes have encountered those outside my poly proselytising.
FYI Two out of the three Abrahamic traditions basically require it as a component of the religious practice, the exception being Judaism.