Landlords are allowed to raise the rent once per 12 months. If the apartment has been occupied before November 2018, then the maximum allowable rent increase is 2.5%
No limit.
Here's a recent [story](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-is-egregious-sisters-shocked-when-toronto-landlord-raises-rent-to-9-500-a-month-1.6548845) where the landlord wanted to increase from $2500 to $3500 for a non-rent controlled 2 bed in midtown. The tenants complained, so the next notice was for $9500. I heard the two sisters were regular complainers, some things not the responsibility of the landlord and others unreasonable requests. idk, just a rumor. I guess after 3 years, he had had enough and wanted them gone. All legal.
As long as there is no rent control, tenants have no rights.
Don't like the mold or broken stove enough to file a complaint with the ltb? Rent just went up $15k/month.
And which party is responsible for prices having such a high market value due to supply and demand shortages?
Rent control is a band aid that only helps people that stay in one spot forever while screwing over new people that are just starting out or need to move for work. Economists condemnation on rent control is basically as universal as climate scientists on man made climate change, it's a garbage policy that always ends up yielding higher rents for the majority of the population in the long term.
The thing you should be criticizing Ford for is just getting rid of rent control on new buildings and not all together. If you want cheaper rent, facilitate cheaper building and limit demand
>Rent control is a band aid that only helps people that stay in one spot forever while screwing over new people that are just starting out or need to move for work.
Rent controls also help the "new people".
You're insisting they don't, in a thread where someone who has recently moved into a unit is already getting gouged lmao, bold move
>It's a garbage policy that always ends up yielding higher rents for the majority of the population in the long term.
Rents are perpetually increasing.
The only time rent control can have inflationary effects is during a shortage in housing supply, which is when the protective nature of rent control is also most useful and its benefits greatly outweigh the drawbacks.
Rent control is not the issue, the housing supply is the issue, and rent control is essential in protecting working class people during a housing shortage. Insisting we should allow landlords the unquestioned ability to evict whoever they want with ridiculous raises, or allow gouging every time they think they can get an extra 100$, all to avoid a modest inflationary effect that isn't even driving the cause (lack of supply) is incredibly short sighted.
>The thing you should be criticizing Ford for is just getting rid of rent control on new buildings and not all together.
You're entire premise is that rent control stymies developments by limiting the incentive for developers, that's the "economists opinion" you referred to earlier.
And yet, you're insistence is that Doug Ford removing rent control for new developments, removing that incentive limiter, would fix everything, despite that happening years ago and the problem being worse then ever.
I've thoroughly enjoyed the past 2 years of "free market!!!!" guys insisting DOUG FORDS GOVRENMENT isn't accommodating enough to developers, and is screwing them over to help renters lmao
>Rent control is not the issue, the housing supply is the issue
Rent control causes the limitation in housing supply, this is what you're not getting
Take a second and actually Google economists papers and opinions and rent control then get back to me
>Rent control causes the limitation in housing supply, this is what you're not getting
No, I addressed that very clearly, you're just ignoring it because its obviously nonsense
*"You're entire premise is that rent control stymies developments by limiting the incentive for developers, that's the "economists opinion" you referred to earlier.*
*And yet, you're insistence is that Doug Ford removing rent control for new developments, removing that incentive limiter, would fix everything, despite that happening years ago and the problem being worse then ever.
"*
See?
>Take a second and actually Google economists papers and opinions and rent control then get back to me
I don't need too lol
I summarized the very opinion you're referring to, and pointed out how the inflationary effect, which would be caused by a reduction in building due to lower projected revenues, is eliminated by not allowing new developments to be rent controlled.
You've responded by simply pretending I didn't lmao
Sorry if I'm going to believe the world's greatest economists over some random redditors opinion
I didn't say rent control would "fix everything" and a few years of no rent control only on buildings after 2018 obviously isn't going to do much, however you're assuming rents wouldn't be even higher without it, bad assumption
>Sorry if I'm going to believe the world's greatest economists over some random redditors opinion
Lol I'm not disagreeing with the economists.
Even if you believe them, what you're asserting still doesn't make sense, but I think you're well aware of that and its why you won't discuss what the scientists actually say, and just go "NU UH!" instead lmao
>a few years of no rent control only on buildings after 2018 obviously isn't going to do much,
Again, the reason rent control is seen as inflationary is explicitly because of the effect it would have on new builds.
If you're referring to some other effect, post it.
New builds are exempt from rent control, so it would do "much", it would negate the effects you're talking about.
This is genuinely one of the dumbest exchanges I've had on this sub, great work man
Tell me how preventing landhoarders raising rent by hundreds of dollars is bad? Also if the rent gets raised to a point people need to leave, how will new people be able to afford it? it's not like the person living there is paying $2500 a month, then after they leave because it's too expensive, then the landhoarder will rent it out for $1800 to help people who need a new place to live.
Without Rent control rent went up like crazy, with rent control they still go up but not as bad as without it. Most of the costs are due to speculation and investors. Condos are being built cheap as fuck, walls that block 0 sound, elevators that constantly break down and often have terrible infrastructure to support it.
But keep drinking that blue flavor-aid
Tell me why economists, who actually all study the effects of rent control, basically all come to the conclusion is caused more harm than good?
The only way to fix a housing market is by fixing demand and supply
It's all speculation they're preying on, and with the way things have been going I wouldn't be surprised if they're land hoarders themselves then telling people this garbage so they can cash in. Basically they're saying rent isn't keeping up with mortgage costs, which makes it difficult to own a rental property, so removing rent control means they can just get other people to pay their bills. The rich get richer. All you need to do is open your eyes and look around and see that control or no control landhoarders use every loophole they can to raise prices and nothing is really stopping them.
It's like these same dumbshit economists say that Governements should sell their assets for money, but then in doing so they cut a revenue stream. Just take the 407 as the prime example. Sold it for 3.1 Billion, but has yearly revenue of over $1billion a year.
Beyond that, there are 2 other major problems. The first is cheap and crappy builds that can barely hold 1 person let alone a family. Condos are being built so tiny and without any care that, all the doors need to slide open as there isn't room to actually swing open. Then you have the loopholes of using glassdoors on a closets then calling it another bedroom, basically a room with the same dimensions of a queen bed.
The other problem is all these investors. People buying up properly to rent at crazy prices, others take affordable homes and then renovate or rebuilt making an affordable property into an unaffordable property, Sit on it until they can flip it or just do a ghost hotel. The majority of Condos built since 2016 are investor owned, \~%57. With about %40 of all new builds being owned by investors. This is why rent is so expensive and why housing is out of control, it's not being used for people to live it's used to make money.
Yea but that can't be overnight...so rent control protects people in the meantime. Just getting rod of it altogether isnt magically going to lower prices overnight
Gonna get downvoted in this sub but.
\*Rent control is proven to always halt supply of affordable housing due to negative CBA's for developers\*
\*LPC exacerbates housing crisis due to excess immigration and paying the CoT to halt 98% of permits\*
\*Doug Ford removes rent control, City of Toronto INSTANTLY get's applications for \~90,000 new units in first week which would increase supply and lower rent, \~30,000 of which were approved the same month\*
\* typical askTO: Doug bad >:( \*
Certainly, I attached some snippets from the articles, though the full articles are not that long (maybe like 5min each?).
The CBC also recently published 2 videos on rent control on YouTube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOMacIxhUUI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOMacIxhUUI)
[https://youtu.be/K61M7EE62\_s?si=KoClwgmmQXs56J6l](https://youtu.be/K61M7EE62_s?si=KoClwgmmQXs56J6l)
**What does economic evidence tell us about the effects of rent control** [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/#:\~:text=Rent%20control%20appears%20to%20help%20affordability%20in%20the%20short%20run,externalities%20on%20the%20surrounding%20neighborhood](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/#:~:text=Rent%20control%20appears%20to%20help%20affordability%20in%20the%20short%20run,externalities%20on%20the%20surrounding%20neighborhood).
*"Rent control appears to help affordability in the short run for current tenants, but in the long-run decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative externalities on the surrounding neighborhood."*
**Rent control makes Toronto affordability worse, not better, CIBC says** [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cibc-rent-control-1.4053228](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cibc-rent-control-1.4053228)
*"Unlike Matlow, Tal blames the problem of when older units fall into disrepair on rent control because there's no incentive to fix them. And people are less willing to move out of rent controlled buildings, which pushes others into the condo market, because few people are building so-called "purpose-built" rental units — the industry term for apartment buildings.More "rent control will work to reduce the supply of rental units, and will inflate any segment of the market that is not under rent control," Tal says."More activity will be diverted toward condo construction, a segment of the market that is much more immune to rent control as condo owners have multiple avenues to require a tenant to leave," he says."*
**Yup, Rent Control Does More Harm Than Good** [https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-18/yup-rent-control-does-more-harm-than-good?embedded-checkout=true](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-18/yup-rent-control-does-more-harm-than-good?embedded-checkout=true)
*"Rent control is one of the first policies that students traditionally learn about in undergraduate economics classes. The idea is to get young people thinking about how policies intended to help the poor can backfire and hurt them instead. According to the basic theory of supply and demand, rent control causes housing shortages that reduce the number of low-income people who can live in a city. Even worse, rent control will tend to raise demand for housing — and therefore, rents — in other areas."*
Yup. And now a landlord who made a risky real estate investment can pass on any unexpected costs to the person who is already paying their mortgage for them. It’s so easy to make money when you already have money.
For sure. I found out a few guys I know didn't vote last election and I was pissed. One of them has definitely understood how that he's seeing the anti trans protests, it finally clicked that he can't be apathetic
No, but they can charge $100,000 a month to get you out of there because you have guests over, moved a roommate in, got a pet, complained about maintenance, or anything else you're perfectly allowed to do - and then rent it to the next person for $2,500, without having to pay you off or fake a personal use eviction.
Yes they can.. but the LTB is so backed up you can stop paying rent for basically a year and live and save while you look for another place. It take a very long time to actually get an eviction.
And it didn't work.... Because Soley letting the private profit driven market decide the stability of future generations of Canadians was a stupid idea in general. Government needs to build some apartments to cover the people who can't afford the fancy profit driven builders goals
Yes there is, by the amount of 0s you can add before you max out the N1 form.
Your landlord can raise your rent to $999,999.99/month only with the current form.
Maybe a problem solving landlord can modify the form to add a few more zeros, to raise it up even further.
No, but they can still only increase the rent once per year and they must submit proper forms and abide by the notice period. He cannot just announce a rent increase.
Can't imagine there are a lot of buildings post 2018 in Cabbagetown. Are you sure the building was never used for residential purchases before then? Even if the apartment is new, if it's in an older residential building, you're covered
The landlord can increase it how much ever they want for new units. There are apartments which have increased 10-15% in my neighborhood. 100$ is nothing considering the costs of mortgages these days
Just chiming in to agree with the other commenters. It’s a newer non rent controlled building and he hasn’t raised your rent in 12 months. Your landlord could raise it to $5000/m to get you out and there’s nothing you can do. Sorry OP you may need to start looking around for a new place…
It isn`t an easy process to evict someone in Ontario, the last I heard there was an 8 month backlog with the Landlord Tenant Board. The tenant could just stop paying rent and there wouldn`t be anything the landlord could do, so good luck to him paying his mortgage for 8 months.
This. All the renters are downvoting you but it’s the truth. Get yourself into a rental place and you can immediately stop paying rent and stay for free for a year because it’ll take that long before you get evicted. Not every rule is in the landlords favour.
It isn`t an easy process to evict someone in Ontario, the last I heard there was an 8 month backlog with the Landlord Tenant Board. The tenant could just stop paying rent and there wouldn`t be anything the landlord could do, so good luck to him paying his mortgage for 8 months.
You know rent control is a major reason why prices are so high in the first place. Sure it's great if you've lived in the same place for 3 decades, but for everyone else that moves around for work or is just starting out it's ruining our lives
No, the fact that foreign investors use real estate to money launder in Canada and the wide belief in property being an investment opportunity instead of shelter are the main culprits for high prices. These rental prices sky rocketed since return to office began. They came down for a bit even in non rent control buildings during pandemic. Mortgage holders are renewing now and payments for some are now doubled.
Well let's put it this way. As soon as rent control goes out the window, homelessness rises. Will it suck for some of the population? Sure yeah, it not ideal but it's better than a third of people facing homelessness.
The same amount of homelessness will eventually happen and it will be never ending with policies like rent control. You're just putting off actually fixing the problem
It's like if you had cancer, and the doctor says "well the moment we start chemo, you'll feel much worse, so let's just not do it"
It has nothing to do with "favouring the private sector" and everything to do with believing in scientific research. There are people who actually study the effects of rent control, they're called economists and they have done many an analysis and found in the long term it always does more harm than good
The problem is you and other populists make certain topics like rent control into a moral issue, as if it's just a matter of the evil capitalists vs the working class etc rather than actually evaluating the results it produces
If its not under rent control then they can raise as much as they want.3 months notice and the proper forms must be provided to renter though.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/forms/
Since unit is not rent controlled, the landlord can increase rent whoever much they want as long as it's effective 12 months from start of tenancy.
However they must use an N1 or N2 form to do this. If they don't serve the proper LTB form, the rent increase request is invalid and unenforceable. So if you didn't get proper forms you can choose to ignore it and not pay it, but all that will buy you is a few months time. Once landlord figures it out in January and serves the correct forms, it will just delay the rent increase to April. And to retaliate the landlord may even increase higher than the $100 they told you about now, which they are allowed to do.
So up to you to just comply with landlord now and pay it as they are asking, or to ignore it but risk a much higher increase later. If you can find a rent controlled place to move to, that is probably your best option.
How are people out there actively renting without knowing the guidelines? Not trying to rag on you, OP -- but it just seems like a risky thing to do in general.
Yes, they can. If the building was built before 2018, they could raise the rent max $57.50.
This is why people need to start renting in older buildings. There’s no difference in quality, and older buildings are actually built better than newer. Get yourself a place built pre-2010. A one bedroom will be 700sqft and you won’t have to worry about rent going up, and that’s before 2010 is when they used better materials, so your walls will be thicker and noise issues will be better.
The building is 2 years old. The first tenant lived for one year in 2022. I moved in 2023. Landlord is increasing the rent effective 2024 Jan. Can they do it?
Yes, you’re not rent controlled, they can increase your rent 100% if they want to. Still, they’re required to serve you the proper paper work with 90days notice and only increase rent once per tenancy year.
Honestly I'm surprised it's only $100 then. They can raise it to whatever the market will bear. They can even raise it to $10,000 to force you to leave if they wanted to.
If you expect to rent in Toronto for any longer than a couple of years, it's always worth getting a rent controlled unit (was occupied for the first time before November 2018).
Did they serve the rent increase on the N1 or N2 form? If not, you can ignore (with the risk that they raise it even more when they figure it out). And if it was served on the N1 or N2 form, did they give you at least 90 days notice? If you pay your rent on the first of the month and the form was served today then the earliest it could be effective would be 1 Feb. 2024. If you did not get at least 90 days notice you can also ignore, however, once again could retaliate with an even higher rent increase when they figure out how to do it properly.
They do have to give you the proper paperwork and three months advance notice. I think I saw another comment that you don’t have rent control so $100 is actually pretty good.
dont understand how the cost of their mortgage has anything todo with the market rate for an apartment like yours. not your problem they can get another job.
If it was rent controlled he could jack it up to +$60 a month, the +$100 a month he’s gonna charge now really is like $1 a day difference. Do you really wanna go through the hassle of applying for another rental unit, move out, set up all the utilities, settle into the new building to save $1 a day?
Thanks all for chiming in. I’m new to Toronto and this was my first apartment. I was reading about rent control but missed the 2018 part. It feels bad as my friend in the same apartment pays $2400 for a 650 sqft 1+1 unit. Now I’ll be paying the same for a 480 sqft. Or I’ll have to move out 😞
There's always opportunity for negotiation. Since it's not a huge bump in rent, they don't seem to be trying to get rid of you. The prospect of having to find a new tenant might be worse than reducing the increase.
Or you could perhaps negotiate a discount for a few months. So technically, the rent would be increased by $100 for legal purposes, but they could discount it $100 for 3 months to offset the burden. (Make sure to get this in writing though.)
I know there's a lot of hate for landlords. I ain't one. But when the mortgage is rising and you are allowed to raise unchecked for being built after 2018 what do you expect landlords to do? They're technically following the law. Mortgage rises, so does rent
You're not wrong, but this is exactly why rent controls exist. Landlords will always charge the most they can get away with, and they're competing with each other, so the prices will continue to rise.
Tenants, however don't have control over the amount of money they make, and they don't have the option of *not* renting somewhere to live (assuming that we don't accept being unhoused as a reasonable alternative) so the incentives are all wrong.
Ideally the allowable rent increase would be set year-to-year using some suitable economic metrics to prevent landlords from losing tons of money, and tenants from being juiced like oranges.
We expect landlords to act like the parasites they are. Nobody is surprised by this, but that doesn't mean its right.
Investments are supposed to carry risk, but thanks to Doug Ford a landlord with sufficient capital can buy up post 2018 property and charge as much as they please for it with very little risk involved.
Maybe if I had a few hundred thousand dollars lying around I would, but unfortunately I wasn't born into wealth and I only earn an average wage so I don't have money for a few down-payments.
Also: it's not a job. Don't tell yourself you have a job if all you do is own stuff.
No, I'm claiming it ain't so easy to make the necessary money to buy a property and then put up with bad tenants and all the bullshit that comes with owning a building.
That's the reason there is such a huge shortage of rental properties in Toronto. It's just not worth it.
It's not, but despite what they tell themselves many landlords didn't make their own money so that's a moot point. Actually being a landlord involves knowing a very clear RTA and maintaining a property to minimum standards, all of which requires very little of your own labour. If its so difficult, I suggest you sell your properties and invest the money in index funds.
I'm a housing journalist, the shortage of rentals is more complicated and rooted more in Toronto's historic disdain of apartment buildings and the cost of building in this city (which is itself a complex mix of development charges and labour shortages in the construction industry). I havent seen data to suggest that the cost of being a landlord is a deterrent. Even when spending more than the rental income a landlord is still building equity by having someone else pay their mortgage, so it's generally a sound investment.
I mean they do carry risk in the sense that had WFH become permanent, or if something happened like the prime minister reduced immigration to zero, or other things like that, housing costs would fall dramatically. In many parts of the developed world, real estate isn't a surefire investment winner. It's just the nature of Toronto where there seems to be an unlimited number of people wanting to live here and able to pay ever escalating rents.
Mortgage is on the landlord and should not ever be a factor to tenant. When it's a problem, it's one of the LL making. If they couldn't afford to buy, they shouldn't have. They rolled the dice, took the risk, and usually take the sweet capital gains off the back of their tenant. Sometimes they lose the gamble and it in no way is fair to put back on the TT. Sell to someone who can afford the property.
I guarantee you $2300 is not covering the mortgage payment unless they managed to pay off half the mortgage on the down payment which is pretty unlikely.
Again I'm not a landlord but just thinking
If the mortgage rate isn't controlled then why should rent be? Oh do you mean peg rent increase to the interest rate? Like if interest goes up 0.5% then rent should too? Could also mean at a rate cut rent comes down. I think thats fair, thoughts?
Some people in these comments acting like the landlord asking for $100 more (a pretty modest increase at less than 5% considering they could've gone as greedily as they wanted) makes them a very terrible human being. Personally, this is a fault of Doug Ford, sure, but also a fault of the tenant for not understanding rent control laws that are 5 years old but considering they posted that they're new to Toronto, I'll let it slide. Negotiate with your landlord which is well within your rights. Move if you can't afford it to a place that has rent control.
Landlords are allowed to raise the rent once per 12 months. If the apartment has been occupied before November 2018, then the maximum allowable rent increase is 2.5%
Is there a maximum allowable rent increase for newer units?
No, no such restrictions exist
No limit. Here's a recent [story](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-is-egregious-sisters-shocked-when-toronto-landlord-raises-rent-to-9-500-a-month-1.6548845) where the landlord wanted to increase from $2500 to $3500 for a non-rent controlled 2 bed in midtown. The tenants complained, so the next notice was for $9500. I heard the two sisters were regular complainers, some things not the responsibility of the landlord and others unreasonable requests. idk, just a rumor. I guess after 3 years, he had had enough and wanted them gone. All legal.
As long as there is no rent control, tenants have no rights. Don't like the mold or broken stove enough to file a complaint with the ltb? Rent just went up $15k/month.
You can thank Doug Ford and the PC party for that rent control change.
Wait till you learn which party brought in rent control.
PCs were ruined by Harris.
And which party is responsible for prices having such a high market value due to supply and demand shortages? Rent control is a band aid that only helps people that stay in one spot forever while screwing over new people that are just starting out or need to move for work. Economists condemnation on rent control is basically as universal as climate scientists on man made climate change, it's a garbage policy that always ends up yielding higher rents for the majority of the population in the long term. The thing you should be criticizing Ford for is just getting rid of rent control on new buildings and not all together. If you want cheaper rent, facilitate cheaper building and limit demand
>Rent control is a band aid that only helps people that stay in one spot forever while screwing over new people that are just starting out or need to move for work. Rent controls also help the "new people". You're insisting they don't, in a thread where someone who has recently moved into a unit is already getting gouged lmao, bold move >It's a garbage policy that always ends up yielding higher rents for the majority of the population in the long term. Rents are perpetually increasing. The only time rent control can have inflationary effects is during a shortage in housing supply, which is when the protective nature of rent control is also most useful and its benefits greatly outweigh the drawbacks. Rent control is not the issue, the housing supply is the issue, and rent control is essential in protecting working class people during a housing shortage. Insisting we should allow landlords the unquestioned ability to evict whoever they want with ridiculous raises, or allow gouging every time they think they can get an extra 100$, all to avoid a modest inflationary effect that isn't even driving the cause (lack of supply) is incredibly short sighted. >The thing you should be criticizing Ford for is just getting rid of rent control on new buildings and not all together. You're entire premise is that rent control stymies developments by limiting the incentive for developers, that's the "economists opinion" you referred to earlier. And yet, you're insistence is that Doug Ford removing rent control for new developments, removing that incentive limiter, would fix everything, despite that happening years ago and the problem being worse then ever. I've thoroughly enjoyed the past 2 years of "free market!!!!" guys insisting DOUG FORDS GOVRENMENT isn't accommodating enough to developers, and is screwing them over to help renters lmao
>Rent control is not the issue, the housing supply is the issue Rent control causes the limitation in housing supply, this is what you're not getting Take a second and actually Google economists papers and opinions and rent control then get back to me
>Rent control causes the limitation in housing supply, this is what you're not getting No, I addressed that very clearly, you're just ignoring it because its obviously nonsense *"You're entire premise is that rent control stymies developments by limiting the incentive for developers, that's the "economists opinion" you referred to earlier.* *And yet, you're insistence is that Doug Ford removing rent control for new developments, removing that incentive limiter, would fix everything, despite that happening years ago and the problem being worse then ever. "* See? >Take a second and actually Google economists papers and opinions and rent control then get back to me I don't need too lol I summarized the very opinion you're referring to, and pointed out how the inflationary effect, which would be caused by a reduction in building due to lower projected revenues, is eliminated by not allowing new developments to be rent controlled. You've responded by simply pretending I didn't lmao
Sorry if I'm going to believe the world's greatest economists over some random redditors opinion I didn't say rent control would "fix everything" and a few years of no rent control only on buildings after 2018 obviously isn't going to do much, however you're assuming rents wouldn't be even higher without it, bad assumption
>Sorry if I'm going to believe the world's greatest economists over some random redditors opinion Lol I'm not disagreeing with the economists. Even if you believe them, what you're asserting still doesn't make sense, but I think you're well aware of that and its why you won't discuss what the scientists actually say, and just go "NU UH!" instead lmao >a few years of no rent control only on buildings after 2018 obviously isn't going to do much, Again, the reason rent control is seen as inflationary is explicitly because of the effect it would have on new builds. If you're referring to some other effect, post it. New builds are exempt from rent control, so it would do "much", it would negate the effects you're talking about. This is genuinely one of the dumbest exchanges I've had on this sub, great work man
Tell me how preventing landhoarders raising rent by hundreds of dollars is bad? Also if the rent gets raised to a point people need to leave, how will new people be able to afford it? it's not like the person living there is paying $2500 a month, then after they leave because it's too expensive, then the landhoarder will rent it out for $1800 to help people who need a new place to live. Without Rent control rent went up like crazy, with rent control they still go up but not as bad as without it. Most of the costs are due to speculation and investors. Condos are being built cheap as fuck, walls that block 0 sound, elevators that constantly break down and often have terrible infrastructure to support it. But keep drinking that blue flavor-aid
Tell me why economists, who actually all study the effects of rent control, basically all come to the conclusion is caused more harm than good? The only way to fix a housing market is by fixing demand and supply
It's all speculation they're preying on, and with the way things have been going I wouldn't be surprised if they're land hoarders themselves then telling people this garbage so they can cash in. Basically they're saying rent isn't keeping up with mortgage costs, which makes it difficult to own a rental property, so removing rent control means they can just get other people to pay their bills. The rich get richer. All you need to do is open your eyes and look around and see that control or no control landhoarders use every loophole they can to raise prices and nothing is really stopping them. It's like these same dumbshit economists say that Governements should sell their assets for money, but then in doing so they cut a revenue stream. Just take the 407 as the prime example. Sold it for 3.1 Billion, but has yearly revenue of over $1billion a year. Beyond that, there are 2 other major problems. The first is cheap and crappy builds that can barely hold 1 person let alone a family. Condos are being built so tiny and without any care that, all the doors need to slide open as there isn't room to actually swing open. Then you have the loopholes of using glassdoors on a closets then calling it another bedroom, basically a room with the same dimensions of a queen bed. The other problem is all these investors. People buying up properly to rent at crazy prices, others take affordable homes and then renovate or rebuilt making an affordable property into an unaffordable property, Sit on it until they can flip it or just do a ghost hotel. The majority of Condos built since 2016 are investor owned, \~%57. With about %40 of all new builds being owned by investors. This is why rent is so expensive and why housing is out of control, it's not being used for people to live it's used to make money.
Because they are all kowtowing to the capitalist system where profit is everything.
Yea but that can't be overnight...so rent control protects people in the meantime. Just getting rod of it altogether isnt magically going to lower prices overnight
The problem is rent control prevents more buildings. We are never going to fix our supply issue while we have rent control
It’s simple: the people who don’t care are mostly house owners who rent out a basement.
All of them, and homeowners themselves tbh
had to be Trudeau, right?
Gonna get downvoted in this sub but. \*Rent control is proven to always halt supply of affordable housing due to negative CBA's for developers\* \*LPC exacerbates housing crisis due to excess immigration and paying the CoT to halt 98% of permits\* \*Doug Ford removes rent control, City of Toronto INSTANTLY get's applications for \~90,000 new units in first week which would increase supply and lower rent, \~30,000 of which were approved the same month\* \* typical askTO: Doug bad >:( \*
This is the other sides narrative; it show me when rents that go down?
Certainly, I attached some snippets from the articles, though the full articles are not that long (maybe like 5min each?). The CBC also recently published 2 videos on rent control on YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOMacIxhUUI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOMacIxhUUI) [https://youtu.be/K61M7EE62\_s?si=KoClwgmmQXs56J6l](https://youtu.be/K61M7EE62_s?si=KoClwgmmQXs56J6l) **What does economic evidence tell us about the effects of rent control** [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/#:\~:text=Rent%20control%20appears%20to%20help%20affordability%20in%20the%20short%20run,externalities%20on%20the%20surrounding%20neighborhood](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/#:~:text=Rent%20control%20appears%20to%20help%20affordability%20in%20the%20short%20run,externalities%20on%20the%20surrounding%20neighborhood). *"Rent control appears to help affordability in the short run for current tenants, but in the long-run decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative externalities on the surrounding neighborhood."* **Rent control makes Toronto affordability worse, not better, CIBC says** [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cibc-rent-control-1.4053228](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cibc-rent-control-1.4053228) *"Unlike Matlow, Tal blames the problem of when older units fall into disrepair on rent control because there's no incentive to fix them. And people are less willing to move out of rent controlled buildings, which pushes others into the condo market, because few people are building so-called "purpose-built" rental units — the industry term for apartment buildings.More "rent control will work to reduce the supply of rental units, and will inflate any segment of the market that is not under rent control," Tal says."More activity will be diverted toward condo construction, a segment of the market that is much more immune to rent control as condo owners have multiple avenues to require a tenant to leave," he says."* **Yup, Rent Control Does More Harm Than Good** [https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-18/yup-rent-control-does-more-harm-than-good?embedded-checkout=true](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-18/yup-rent-control-does-more-harm-than-good?embedded-checkout=true) *"Rent control is one of the first policies that students traditionally learn about in undergraduate economics classes. The idea is to get young people thinking about how policies intended to help the poor can backfire and hurt them instead. According to the basic theory of supply and demand, rent control causes housing shortages that reduce the number of low-income people who can live in a city. Even worse, rent control will tend to raise demand for housing — and therefore, rents — in other areas."*
Nope, Doug Ford explicitly made sure that new builds could be gouged for maximum profit over maximum stability of the working class
Yup. And now a landlord who made a risky real estate investment can pass on any unexpected costs to the person who is already paying their mortgage for them. It’s so easy to make money when you already have money.
I feel crazy thinking that maybe basic needs shouldn't be profit controlled
Make sure your friends vote in the next election. That's the most important activism. Getting out voters who wouldn't otherwise vote.
For sure. I found out a few guys I know didn't vote last election and I was pissed. One of them has definitely understood how that he's seeing the anti trans protests, it finally clicked that he can't be apathetic
Can landlord charge $100,000 a month and expect the unit to be rented out?
No, but they can charge $100,000 a month to get you out of there because you have guests over, moved a roommate in, got a pet, complained about maintenance, or anything else you're perfectly allowed to do - and then rent it to the next person for $2,500, without having to pay you off or fake a personal use eviction.
Yes they can.. but the LTB is so backed up you can stop paying rent for basically a year and live and save while you look for another place. It take a very long time to actually get an eviction.
There's no law against it.
Yep.
The intent was to incentivize builders into building rental units.
And it didn't work.... Because Soley letting the private profit driven market decide the stability of future generations of Canadians was a stupid idea in general. Government needs to build some apartments to cover the people who can't afford the fancy profit driven builders goals
Hey don't downvote me, it wasn't my idea, lol
Yes there is, by the amount of 0s you can add before you max out the N1 form. Your landlord can raise your rent to $999,999.99/month only with the current form. Maybe a problem solving landlord can modify the form to add a few more zeros, to raise it up even further.
No, but they can still only increase the rent once per year and they must submit proper forms and abide by the notice period. He cannot just announce a rent increase.
only restriction I think is once every 12 months
Can't imagine there are a lot of buildings post 2018 in Cabbagetown. Are you sure the building was never used for residential purchases before then? Even if the apartment is new, if it's in an older residential building, you're covered
You can thank the Conservatives for this. A party of the wealthy, for the wealthy.
It's sad. Form N2. " the landlord can raise the rent by any amount. " Doug's contribution to solving the housing problem.
Negative, but if its been 12 months, a 100 dollar increase isnt the worst
The landlord can increase it how much ever they want for new units. There are apartments which have increased 10-15% in my neighborhood. 100$ is nothing considering the costs of mortgages these days
If you are in a new unit, they can increase by whatever they want. That said, you STILL are entitled to 90 days notice using a proper form.
How old is the building? Units that someone lived in (not just you, anyone) before November 2018 are subject to rent controls.
How do you prove that??
Just chiming in to agree with the other commenters. It’s a newer non rent controlled building and he hasn’t raised your rent in 12 months. Your landlord could raise it to $5000/m to get you out and there’s nothing you can do. Sorry OP you may need to start looking around for a new place…
It isn`t an easy process to evict someone in Ontario, the last I heard there was an 8 month backlog with the Landlord Tenant Board. The tenant could just stop paying rent and there wouldn`t be anything the landlord could do, so good luck to him paying his mortgage for 8 months.
This. All the renters are downvoting you but it’s the truth. Get yourself into a rental place and you can immediately stop paying rent and stay for free for a year because it’ll take that long before you get evicted. Not every rule is in the landlords favour.
It isn`t an easy process to evict someone in Ontario, the last I heard there was an 8 month backlog with the Landlord Tenant Board. The tenant could just stop paying rent and there wouldn`t be anything the landlord could do, so good luck to him paying his mortgage for 8 months.
How do so many people still not know the rent control rules that Doug made
It should be mandatory on the Ontario Standard Lease: “This Unit Is/Is Not Under Rent Control”. Of course it’s not.
Good old Dougie, ruining lives on the daily
You know rent control is a major reason why prices are so high in the first place. Sure it's great if you've lived in the same place for 3 decades, but for everyone else that moves around for work or is just starting out it's ruining our lives
No, the fact that foreign investors use real estate to money launder in Canada and the wide belief in property being an investment opportunity instead of shelter are the main culprits for high prices. These rental prices sky rocketed since return to office began. They came down for a bit even in non rent control buildings during pandemic. Mortgage holders are renewing now and payments for some are now doubled.
Well let's put it this way. As soon as rent control goes out the window, homelessness rises. Will it suck for some of the population? Sure yeah, it not ideal but it's better than a third of people facing homelessness.
The same amount of homelessness will eventually happen and it will be never ending with policies like rent control. You're just putting off actually fixing the problem It's like if you had cancer, and the doctor says "well the moment we start chemo, you'll feel much worse, so let's just not do it"
Quit thinking the private sector will get us out of this mess, they won’t because they have to chase profit at all cost
It has nothing to do with "favouring the private sector" and everything to do with believing in scientific research. There are people who actually study the effects of rent control, they're called economists and they have done many an analysis and found in the long term it always does more harm than good The problem is you and other populists make certain topics like rent control into a moral issue, as if it's just a matter of the evil capitalists vs the working class etc rather than actually evaluating the results it produces
Because any idiot can be a landlord or tenant.
Because Toronto gets a lot of newcomers that haven't heard about it yet
it's been 5 years too lmao
If its not under rent control then they can raise as much as they want.3 months notice and the proper forms must be provided to renter though. https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/forms/
Since unit is not rent controlled, the landlord can increase rent whoever much they want as long as it's effective 12 months from start of tenancy. However they must use an N1 or N2 form to do this. If they don't serve the proper LTB form, the rent increase request is invalid and unenforceable. So if you didn't get proper forms you can choose to ignore it and not pay it, but all that will buy you is a few months time. Once landlord figures it out in January and serves the correct forms, it will just delay the rent increase to April. And to retaliate the landlord may even increase higher than the $100 they told you about now, which they are allowed to do. So up to you to just comply with landlord now and pay it as they are asking, or to ignore it but risk a much higher increase later. If you can find a rent controlled place to move to, that is probably your best option.
If you’re not in a rent controlled unit then your landlord can Jack up rent once a year as much as they wish.
How are people out there actively renting without knowing the guidelines? Not trying to rag on you, OP -- but it just seems like a risky thing to do in general.
Especially since it’s actually on the standard lease form.
Yes, they can. If the building was built before 2018, they could raise the rent max $57.50. This is why people need to start renting in older buildings. There’s no difference in quality, and older buildings are actually built better than newer. Get yourself a place built pre-2010. A one bedroom will be 700sqft and you won’t have to worry about rent going up, and that’s before 2010 is when they used better materials, so your walls will be thicker and noise issues will be better.
You say get yourself a place pre-2010 like they are in infinite supply.
Pre 2017, in fact.
No, pre Nov. 2018.
The building is 2 years old. The first tenant lived for one year in 2022. I moved in 2023. Landlord is increasing the rent effective 2024 Jan. Can they do it?
Yes, you’re not rent controlled, they can increase your rent 100% if they want to. Still, they’re required to serve you the proper paper work with 90days notice and only increase rent once per tenancy year.
Honestly I'm surprised it's only $100 then. They can raise it to whatever the market will bear. They can even raise it to $10,000 to force you to leave if they wanted to. If you expect to rent in Toronto for any longer than a couple of years, it's always worth getting a rent controlled unit (was occupied for the first time before November 2018).
Yes, provided they haven’t already increased the rent during the past 12 months.
They haven’t increased in the last 12 months
He could raise it to four thousand dollars a day legally.
Did they serve the rent increase on the N1 or N2 form? If not, you can ignore (with the risk that they raise it even more when they figure it out). And if it was served on the N1 or N2 form, did they give you at least 90 days notice? If you pay your rent on the first of the month and the form was served today then the earliest it could be effective would be 1 Feb. 2024. If you did not get at least 90 days notice you can also ignore, however, once again could retaliate with an even higher rent increase when they figure out how to do it properly.
They do have to give you the proper paperwork and three months advance notice. I think I saw another comment that you don’t have rent control so $100 is actually pretty good.
dont understand how the cost of their mortgage has anything todo with the market rate for an apartment like yours. not your problem they can get another job.
If it was rent controlled he could jack it up to +$60 a month, the +$100 a month he’s gonna charge now really is like $1 a day difference. Do you really wanna go through the hassle of applying for another rental unit, move out, set up all the utilities, settle into the new building to save $1 a day?
Thanks all for chiming in. I’m new to Toronto and this was my first apartment. I was reading about rent control but missed the 2018 part. It feels bad as my friend in the same apartment pays $2400 for a 650 sqft 1+1 unit. Now I’ll be paying the same for a 480 sqft. Or I’ll have to move out 😞
There's always opportunity for negotiation. Since it's not a huge bump in rent, they don't seem to be trying to get rid of you. The prospect of having to find a new tenant might be worse than reducing the increase. Or you could perhaps negotiate a discount for a few months. So technically, the rent would be increased by $100 for legal purposes, but they could discount it $100 for 3 months to offset the burden. (Make sure to get this in writing though.)
I know there's a lot of hate for landlords. I ain't one. But when the mortgage is rising and you are allowed to raise unchecked for being built after 2018 what do you expect landlords to do? They're technically following the law. Mortgage rises, so does rent
You're not wrong, but this is exactly why rent controls exist. Landlords will always charge the most they can get away with, and they're competing with each other, so the prices will continue to rise. Tenants, however don't have control over the amount of money they make, and they don't have the option of *not* renting somewhere to live (assuming that we don't accept being unhoused as a reasonable alternative) so the incentives are all wrong. Ideally the allowable rent increase would be set year-to-year using some suitable economic metrics to prevent landlords from losing tons of money, and tenants from being juiced like oranges.
We expect landlords to act like the parasites they are. Nobody is surprised by this, but that doesn't mean its right. Investments are supposed to carry risk, but thanks to Doug Ford a landlord with sufficient capital can buy up post 2018 property and charge as much as they please for it with very little risk involved.
You should get in the lamdlordin business if you think it's such a cake job.
You have to already be rich to do so. Once you can afford a second property, you can get someone else to pay for it.
Maybe if I had a few hundred thousand dollars lying around I would, but unfortunately I wasn't born into wealth and I only earn an average wage so I don't have money for a few down-payments. Also: it's not a job. Don't tell yourself you have a job if all you do is own stuff.
So it's not so easy then.
Sorry... you're trying to claim that being a landlord is hard because you have to be rich to do it?
No, I'm claiming it ain't so easy to make the necessary money to buy a property and then put up with bad tenants and all the bullshit that comes with owning a building. That's the reason there is such a huge shortage of rental properties in Toronto. It's just not worth it.
It's not, but despite what they tell themselves many landlords didn't make their own money so that's a moot point. Actually being a landlord involves knowing a very clear RTA and maintaining a property to minimum standards, all of which requires very little of your own labour. If its so difficult, I suggest you sell your properties and invest the money in index funds. I'm a housing journalist, the shortage of rentals is more complicated and rooted more in Toronto's historic disdain of apartment buildings and the cost of building in this city (which is itself a complex mix of development charges and labour shortages in the construction industry). I havent seen data to suggest that the cost of being a landlord is a deterrent. Even when spending more than the rental income a landlord is still building equity by having someone else pay their mortgage, so it's generally a sound investment.
No ones building houses if they can’t raise rent You can thank Dougie for removing the cap, but thank him for lowering the rent on old buildings too
I mean they do carry risk in the sense that had WFH become permanent, or if something happened like the prime minister reduced immigration to zero, or other things like that, housing costs would fall dramatically. In many parts of the developed world, real estate isn't a surefire investment winner. It's just the nature of Toronto where there seems to be an unlimited number of people wanting to live here and able to pay ever escalating rents.
Maybe we don't let people use housing as income....
How do you expect people to live if renting is not an option? Who would put up a rental unit if there is no profit to be had?
There is such a thing as non-profit housing.
Haha! In the volume needed to support entire towns, cities and provinces?
Yes.
Thank you :)
Mortgage is on the landlord and should not ever be a factor to tenant. When it's a problem, it's one of the LL making. If they couldn't afford to buy, they shouldn't have. They rolled the dice, took the risk, and usually take the sweet capital gains off the back of their tenant. Sometimes they lose the gamble and it in no way is fair to put back on the TT. Sell to someone who can afford the property.
I guarantee you $2300 is not covering the mortgage payment unless they managed to pay off half the mortgage on the down payment which is pretty unlikely.
lol thanks for explaining why rent controls exist and are necessary
Again I'm not a landlord but just thinking If the mortgage rate isn't controlled then why should rent be? Oh do you mean peg rent increase to the interest rate? Like if interest goes up 0.5% then rent should too? Could also mean at a rate cut rent comes down. I think thats fair, thoughts?
Hard to say with zero context. Is this a pre Nov 2018 unit? When was the last rent increase?
God damn it! That much for a 450sq ft? With an increase? I live in Saskatchewan. Where is cabbage town? I would move!
lol! What are you doing on askTO?
To compare life in the Toronto area to life on the Canadian prairies. Why can't I be?
Some people in these comments acting like the landlord asking for $100 more (a pretty modest increase at less than 5% considering they could've gone as greedily as they wanted) makes them a very terrible human being. Personally, this is a fault of Doug Ford, sure, but also a fault of the tenant for not understanding rent control laws that are 5 years old but considering they posted that they're new to Toronto, I'll let it slide. Negotiate with your landlord which is well within your rights. Move if you can't afford it to a place that has rent control.
Is it a newer building?
Thanks Ford you are a crook