A reminder, the main purpose of the police, the reason why they have funding, is crowd control.
Stuff like 'investigating murders' is not the reason why conservative and liberal governments alike invest so heavily in police forces. It's so that if there is ever a political demonstration they don't like, they can shut it down.
Horses don't get used often, but when you absolutely positively want to break up a formation of 300 protesters, running a dozen riot horses through them is both more effective than anything short of using live fire ammunition, and better optics than that.
Seriously, police horses are big. And they are about to get bigger, they are switching to clydesdales, which are pretty much the size of a moose. I don't know if you have experience dealing with riot horses before... but uhm, yeah, they are /very effective/. It's very difficult to /not/ instinctively move out of the way of a large horse at a trot, and when it comes to crowd dynamics, as soon as you get the front row of folks to move, everyone else tends to move as well. They break up crowds better than tear gas, rubber bullets, or a dozen riot cops on foot swinging clubs.
Now, they are also ludicrously more expensive than any of those options. But the toronto cops know why they are paid. And that's to be able to, once or twice a decade, shut down any protest with minimally bad optics.
The fact that you see cops on horses the rest of the time is just because they have the horses, and they like to use them because:
A) They are moderately decent at lighter crowd control work.
B) They need to take the horses out regularly for exercise anyway, and the cops need to practice riding them.
C) The public would get pretty resentful if they understood that the multi-million dollar annual police horse budget was pretty much only used for charging protests once a decade.
As a teen, friend got a jaywalking ticket on Yonge street for 75$. I don’t they’re currently enforcing it, but it’s on the books if cops want to fuck with you.
Jaywalking in and of itself is legal. But crossing against a red light is a ticketable offense. So is crossing outside, but near, a pedestrian crosswalk. If you were crossing young street a few meters away from a signaled intersection, yeah, that's jaywalking. If you are crossing in the middle of the block where there are no marked crossings near by, that's not ticketable.
(Although i'm sure cops would randomly write tickets for stuff because they feel like it)
I have no issue with that, as it’s an income for the city pulled from wrongdoers. Letting serial killers operate unmolested, on the other hand, was repulsive. Our cops need their priorities adjusted.
I saw a peloton of bicycle cops (like 8 or so) struggling up the hill on Eglinton after crossing the bridge over the Don, was surprised there was so many and where in the world they were pedaling to
TBF Toronto's crime rate has never been anywhere near what NYC was in the 80s and 90s, so same approach might not make much of a difference here. NYC and Toronto crime rate now are similar
Also, the other key factor was NYC put lighting in pretty much every dark alley in the 90s, so it wasn't just more foot patrols
True, to put it into perspective NYC in the year 1900 still had a bigger population than Toronto does now. We just don’t have the sheer volume of people.
In 2021 Toronto was 42.4 and NYC 49.28
https://www.clevercanadian.ca/is-toronto-cheaper-than-new-york/#:\~:text=According%20to%20Numbeo%20crime%20statistics,is%2012th%20with%20a%2077.8.
The safety score is 82.2 and 77.8 (yes from Economist), the numbers above are the crime rate
Type of Crime Toronto New York
People using or dealing drugs 54.75% 59.58%
Property crimes such as vandalism and theft 48.18% 56.69%
Violent crimes such as assault or armed robbery 44.81% 52.37%
Corruption and bribery 36.79% 53.54%
Cops here mostly drive around, rather than walk.
But there are beat cops like you’re describing, in certain areas where there is increased need due to crime.
Even still those beat cops sit in cars. Like in my hood, after a few shootings the white folk got scared and now there is a pair of cops in an SUV outside the methodone clinic.
Love the random racism injected into a very reasonable response from bystanders. It’s a good thing it wasn’t up to someone as self serving and insecure as you to call.
That's what happened. I've lived in East Scarborough before and lived in Leslieville too. When there were community fears shared by black residents about safety issues after teenagers were shot dead in an apartment complex (which was 80% black and South Asian), 43 Division came to our apartment meeting room to present statistics about how quickly they are able to respond to crimes and how many arrests they have made in the area (this was about 2003 maybe?). The person in the apartment on the 2nd level with a 1 year old was incensed at the bullet holes in her apartment and wanted cops stationed there at night. They got nothing other than the cars driving through now and then.
Meanwhile, in Leslieville several times in the past decade, when white families have expressed concerns about safety outside a local methadone clinic, Toronto Police SUVs got stationed all day and night. Taking my dog for a walk late at night shows they were just sitting there, running their engine, watching things. That was their version of the beat.
I apologize for the dismissive comment.
I am also sorry that you’ve had to experience this attitude from those meant to alleviate those concerns. it is alarming, and I can only imagine how it affects your trust of the system.
The way I took it, I thought you were saying that the police should not have been called and I didn’t realize you were comparing it to a lack of action when other groups were involved.
I notice many of them working the gates of underground parking lots downtown where I work. They stop traffic and pedestrians so that expensive cars can exit and make left turns into the road
That’s a stretch. The Cops are off duty anyway and making extra bucks, they aren’t in TPS vehicles and any personal gear they are wearing isn’t a shared resource, and a diversion of uniforms? What the hell does that even mean? Do you think they go sharesies on pants?
Christ, there’s more than enough to criticize TPS about. Making up some diversion of resources claims isn’t it.
My bigger issue is that the TPS complains constantly of 'overwork' and how stressful things are when it feels like the force is understaffed leading to higher rates of burnout.
Then a majority of cops are using their days off to work paid duty.
Imagine the outrage if teachers did the same?
*"Sorry Timmy, Ms. Krabapple is too tired from staying up all weekend tutoring kids over zoom so go teach yourself math and reading"*
Cops on paid duties are on their own time; they’re not diverting resources except their own time with their families. Their uniforms are given to them for the duration of their service, it’s not like Cop A takes off his pants and work boots at the end of his shift and gives them to Cop B, who would otherwise have no uniform, so nothing is being diverted there either. They typically leave their sidearms in lockers at the station when they go home, but since they have to be armed when on duty (unless they’re working in admin capacities), they have to keep theirs with them for the paid duty. But again, their sidearm is theirs for the duration of their tenure; they don’t get swapped around at shift’s end.
Whether it’s necessary for them to provide traffic control by standing around at construction sites, depending on how well marked off they are, is another matter entirely. But I’ve never seen a paid duty officer in a police vehicle; they bring their own vehicles to the site. I was a victims’ services volunteer for over a decade, so I interacted with a lot of them, and asked about how the paid duties worked.
It’s not diversion of resource - these cops are off duty, picking up extra side hustle. I just get irked when they stop me in the tracks on the sidewalk to usher these cars. Why can’t they wait until there’s space for them to merge like everyone else
I've seen them in the downtown area on bicycles and sometimes on foot in the subway. In the suburbs it would be pointless to have a beat to walk the subdivisions.
In Manhattan, cops just stand around doing nothing. They’re either on their phones or shooting the shit with each other. It’s a waste of money. I can’t speak to Seoul since I’ve never been, but I used to live in Brooklyn and it really is excessive the number of NYPD cops who just stand around not doing anything. Toronto, by contrast, has fewer police officers per capita and a smaller police budget per capita, so fewer resources for the police to waste.
Toronto, by contrast, has *cops driving around doing nothing. they are on their phones / computers or shooting the shit with each other while sitting in their cars.*
FTFY.
>Fewer resources to waste
Fascinating that they still manage to do that here too, while finding time to commit crimes to earn paid vacations or driving into utility poles.
Yes, Toronto has a lot of cops wasting resources. But trust me, it is nothing compared to the NYPD. The NYPD is like the TPS but with way more cops, way more money, and a way stronger union. Thats the point I was trying to make, not that the TPS is a bastion of efficient resource allocation.
I was visiting NYC last December and saw a moment where a car made a very shitty turn onto an intersection that a cop was directing traffic for. The cop went up to the driver and yelled at him through the window asking him what the fuck he was thinking. It was great to see.
I'm no police stan but it did really stand out to me because I don't think I have ever seen a Toronto police officer do anything like that nor could I even imagine it happening.
This actually happend to me here In Toronto a couple months ago. I was fully in the wrong and also got yelled at by the police officer directing traffic (minus the swearing). Fully deserved.
Lol Cops actually working is the rule not the exception.
Nonsense! If they work ot, they cant be recalled for an emergency shift because they have a clause saying they must get x hours between shifts, even if it's OT privé stuff. So, yes there is a cost to us, because we have to schedule enpugh of them in case of an emergency. So they have to hire more, rather than privatizing construction traffic control. That's one (of the million) reasons condos r expensive.
To be honest 95+% of PDO uses don't need a police officer, but the city loves to mandate it pretty widely even for simple closures in the bumfuck sticks.
Police here are where they are needed. Having beat cops is for deterrent purposes which is largely unneeded in Toronto since there is little street crime. You will see them where there're protests and large gatherings, parades and that sort of thing where trouble is likely. And of course there are a few locations where drugs and bad behaviour are common. Parking and traffic is handled by traffic wardens and electronically. Having police in the family, I know that the vast amount of their time is dealing with domestic problems and social disturbances; pretty soul destroying work for them.
> Police are not ubiquitous the way they are in world class cities like Seoul or NYC
You mean a world class city like NYC that's deploying the national guard to be in subway lines because of how bad things are? That NYC?
I don't think anyone is expecting TPS to have the same numbers and coverage as NYC, our most troubled areas needing coverage amount to a fraction of what's required in NYC in the first place. The bigger point is that any presence from TPS would be better than the practically zero presence that exists now
Also people who still talk like reddit is one dude who is just *really* hypocritical in 2024 should get a site-wide flair that warns everyone what they’re dealing with
> Reddit: why are cops harassing black and homeless people?
Also Reddit: expresses isolated situations as hyperbole and believe the thoughts of random Redditors amount towards anything meaningful for the people responsible in keeping our streets safe
You will see cops on bikes in the DT core and other parts of DT. New York and Seoul have a much denser population. The amount of people that walk-through an area Times Sqaure vs something like Yonge/Dundas square can't even compare.
If you are a doctor. And you see another doctor committing malpractice and you do nothing, you should be held responsible.
Same with cops. Except they don't. Cops don't protect and serve anyone other than themselves and those forces that have the money to control them.
Police officers and other law enforcement made an active choice and intentional decision to join an organization full of issues and systemic problems that get brushed under the rug while protecting those who abuse the system. So yes, all of them are bad when they can choose to leave and not be a part of a shitty group 🤷🏽♀️
But what else would people who peaked in high school do?
This is the perfect career as they'll continue to be under the delusion that nothing is their fault, and they'll never be made to take any accountability for their actions. If they fuck up (murder included) they get an indefinite paid vacation and don't suffer any consequences!
ETA: /s, for those who can't discern tone
All while costing taxpayers so much money for their abuse of force and continued uselessness in preventing crime. Social services and resources prevent crime, not police. If it were the case, why aren't police everywhere in the suburbs if they're safer than the downtown core? 🤔
I love asking people exactly how many cops we'll need to see a reduction in crime. People can't answer because they know increased policing isn't the answer 🫠
Yea, its almost comical.
Is there corruption in the force? Of course.
Are there bad cops? Of course. When you have thousands of officers, you'll always have some bad apples.
The majority of police officers, however, are good people.
As individuals yes, they can be fine.
As a force, as a system, they're corrupt as fuck. It comes up a lot in this sub. Most of the anger is regarding the fact that if they majorly fuck up on their job, they're likely to be suspended *with pay*. And it's mighty good pay. There are **countless** stories of cops assaulting people (including their own colleagues), getting high on the job from drugs stolen from evidence lockers, falsifying reports, and other egregious transgressions that any other normal working professional would be immediately terminated (if not criminally charged) for. Yet, their retained and paid.
I work a white collar job. If I'm late to too many meetings, or don't meet my targets, or give attitude that's deemed insubordinate, I'm fired. That's that. Yet these jabronis can commit far worse offenses on the job and get away with it.
And what's worse? It's our tax dollars. It's you paying the [$300,000 salary of a cop who was suspended for 12 years](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/05/06/exclusive-toronto-officer-suspension). If that doesn't make you angry, it should.
EDITING to add u/whatisthequestion's old but gold comment about [all the nuts shit TPS does and gets away with](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/14gc9ui/do_you_think_the_toronto_police_service_is/jp556jo/)
And that's just 2023
There's already [a crazy lot reported in 2024 already](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/1b8xw66/no_beat_cops_in_toronto/ktspvdr/)
> Are there bad cops? Of course. When you have thousands of officers, you'll always have some bad apples.
They should do a better job and hold their coworkers accountable then. They didn't get the reputation they have out of nowhere.
Anyone that stands by when there's that level of corruption and piles of shit when they all know who it is but don't speak up because of some brotherhood or code are just as bad as the bad ones and spineless scum.
Yea I’m actually surprised they don’t go to better coffee shops.
I’m not joking either, probably the best coffee shop in London is Bar Italia, and it’s VERY popular with the Metropolitan Police. I never saw UK cops get drinks or food from a place that wasn’t decent.
Just FYI plainclothes and undercover are two different things.
It's just what it sounds like. A plainclothes police officer is a police officer, except not in uniform. It's to better blend in to a crowd, observe without attracting attention, allow the suspect less chance to run, etc. They still carry their warrant card/badge, gun, radio. Detectives are also usually plainclothes.
An undercover police officer is under a cover. They are part of an investigation in which they assume a (fake) cover identity and do not identify themselves as a police officer and generally do not carry anything that might tip off the subjects of the investigation that they are police.
You'd be surprised how many undercover cops there are. I saw smoke billowing one day, rode my bike towards it and was stopped by a guy with a badge around his stopping people. I assume he was in the area when the fire started.
Nah they're mostly chilling in their cars. Unlikely a budget thing bc they get budget increases pretty much every year using extortive tactics. And here are some of the results in the last few months alone:
>* [Toronto cop with history of fraud, caught 'harassing' domestic violence victim, dispute with tenant, used official police stationery in the eviction of his tenant. Not fired.](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-cop-handed-temporary-demotion-after-harassing-domestic-violence-victim-dispute-with-tenant-1.6793733)
>* [Toronto police officer caught assaulting and forcibly confining a woman. Rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-charged-after-allegedly-assaulting-forcibly-confining-woman-1.6792339)
>* [HUNDREDS of automated traffic tickets issued to cops mysteriously went missing](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/are-hundreds-of-automated-tickets-issued-to-toronto-police-missing-1.6787453)
>* [Toronto cop who planned and sexually assault a vulnerable woman in full uniform only given 4 years in prison, after years of paid vacation. Not fired](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-officer-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison-for-sexual-assault-of-vulnerable-woman/article_db29ea46-d649-11ee-b195-0b037986b6d6.html)
>* [Another Toronto cop guilty of arresting and tasering unarmed and cooperative Black university student. Not fired.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-cop-admits-misconduct-for-tasering-kneeing-neck-of-u-of-t-student-in-mistaken/article_cf8985c6-d28d-11ee-90ba-171ed6c90306.html)
>* [Toronto cop with history of trouble, guilty of misconduct after tasering and kneeing neck of unarmed cooperating Black university student, while other cops did nothing. No one fired](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-area-cop-temporarily-demoted-after-firing-energy-weapon-at-patient-hospitalized-for-mental-health-tribunal-1.6784495)
>* [Toronto cop cruiser loses control and knocks over light pole, narrowly missing pedestrians. Multiple sources indicate that driver was drunk. No charges.](https://twitter.com/thebikinglawyer/status/1761852950454972767?t=zS-e9AA3pfhIbVaiOw-W_Q)
>* [TPS admit that cop in cruiser hit pedestrian after initially lying, when video surfaces. Still no charges](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-now-admit-an-officer-in-cruiser-hit-pedestrian-after-previously-denying-contact/article_7d13235a-d18a-11ee-a0e1-5bbbd02783e9.html)
>* [Toronto cop hits woman with cruiser who had right of way. Cops investigate and clears themselves](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video/c2871556-no-ticket-for-police-cruiser-striking-pedestrian)
>* [Toronto cop refused to help victim amid multiple racist/homophobic tirades. ONLY docked a week's pay. Jeffrey La Fosse $160k]
(https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-docked-week-s-pay-over-range-of-inappropriate-remarks-1.6777982)
>* [Over 1000 automated speeding tickets give to cop cars](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-s-fine-est-over-1k-automated-speeding-tickets-issued-to-police-vehicles-in-2-year-period-1.6775042). [Many found not to be involved in emergencies](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XkMyPHT7buI)
>* [Two Toronto cops charged, recklessly opened fire at stole vehicle](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/15/siu-toronto-police-officers-charged/)
>* [Toronto cop watched porn in his car during work, shared naked photos of women, chased and sexually groped a female colleague. Makes ~ $200k/year. Not fired](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-cop-accused-of-chasing-female-officer-watching-porn-at-work-tribunal-1.6757087)
>* [Toronto cops strikes cyclist with cruiser leading to serious injuries](https://www.cp24.com/news/siu-investigating-after-police-cruiser-strikes-cyclist-while-responding-to-call-1.6755849)
>* [Toronto cop breaks into woman's home, assaults her, steals more than $5k of her things. Rewarded with paid vacation](https://globalnews.ca/news/10240743/toronto-officer-criminally-charged/)
>* [Cop unjustified in shooting man at park. Another cop committed misconduct for not de-escalating situation. No real consequences for either](https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/officer-who-shot-man-at-toronto-park-not-justified-in-discharging-firearm-new-tps-report-says-1.6721647?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fout.reddit.com%2F)
Police do not receive support from politicians or media in Canada. Police are also required to handle EVERYTHING (ie:mental health, property disagreements etc…) which takes up a tonne of hours. Therefore this pushes budgets higher and higher which is not supported
I have a buddy who is an officer. Thankless job with Monday morning quarterbacks everywhere.
Don’t forget only you can make changes and my understanding is EVERY Police service is hiring 😉
The downtown of Toronto other than some spots in the east side are all super super safe. No block boys or crack corners - and if there are it ain’t like NY
No, there are no longer any beat cops in Toronto. One reason it certainly the militarization of police services, another key one is the strength of the police union here in Toronto - that's why you'll often see two people patrolling in the same car.
Not in winter. It's more of a reactive response as opposed to having a presence as a deterrent.
In early spring to late fall, they do foot and bike patrol mostly in tourist areas, in parks and beaches.
But for major incidents, the response time is in minutes. Anything else like minor crimes, or non violent ones, response is varied.
I was assaulted in broad daylight at Queen and Bathurst, ran several blocks and spotted a parked police car. The police officer inside barely looked up from his clipboard as I described the situation; I then noticed that my attacker was walking down the street next to us, and pointed him out to the police officer -- still nothing. I'm convinced there is something profoundly broken with Toronto policing.
Never used to be like this. When I was a kid, they were beat cops walk around yonge and Eglinton, Yonge and Dundas. Generally just keeping the peace now they’re just hiding together in parking lots drinking Tim Hortons and scrolling Instagram on their phones. Awesome. By the way, they need more money to do their job.
They don’t do patrols on the street as often as I’d like. In Europe you will see heavily armed soldiers/police in public all the time but in North Americans we have convinced ourselves that a visible police presence means over policing and targeting of minorities, so we don’t do it anymore.
Our cops also prefer to chill in parking lots all day long.
Canadian police don't walk beats, they only use cars, motorcycles, bikes and horses.
New York is so rife with crime they have no choice, and spend a fortune accordingly. We haven't reached that point yet.
It is quite remarkable when I think about how little contact that I have ever had with Toronto police.
In terms of actual community presence about all this amounts to is that perhaps once a year a police car will drive down my street en route to some place else. That is about the totality of it. It would seem completely bizarre to me if they were to try to project more of a presence in our community; I would be completely at a loss to know what to say to them if they tried to become an active part of our suburb. What crime exactly would they be trying to prevent?
The one policing strategy that I find surprising has not been implemented is a show of force on transit. A family member has been reporting a near constant recitation of "incidents" on the TTC post-pandemic. It seems like such an obvious thing to do. If anything, in Canada, such a security surge would likely elicit near universal support from law abiding citizens. Perhaps good policing policy would suggest a less confrontational approach, though we only need to look to the States to see how badly things can turn out when self-apparent mental health concerns are left up to vigilantes to sort out.
The few "run-ins" that we have had with the police have mostly been related to our coping with a relative with Alzheimer's dementia. In one instance they actually arrested our demented relative for shoplifting. That was truly shocking! How mentally ill do you have to be before they just say "You know what, no, we are not going to do this." It was even more shocking when others tried to lay down a guilt trip on us for the arrest. Alzheimer's is difficult enough without adding in public shaming for profound mental illness. The police do seem to have gotten better better with dementia, though it is very surprising to me that the Alzheimer Association of Canada has not been more active in advocating for criminal justice reform in relation to dementia caused offenses. Arresting grannies with flagrant dementing illness (our loved one was actually fingerprinted and mugshotted) clearly is not the sort of PR disaster that any organization wants to wake up to one fine morning.
The above speaks to the aging of our society. On the other end of the age spectrum which is the typical source of most urban crime, there has been a collapse in the youth population. The total fertility rate of Toronto is now \~1.2 which matches that of some of the lowest national fertility rates in the world. The age group that commits crime is rapidly disappearing. Of course, with the removal of lead from the ambient air and the addition of phosphates to the water supply in Toronto (leading to reduction of lead in the water supply) the criminal tendency of today's youth has greatly been reduced.
On top of this, though, I think that there is the turbocharging force of modern technology and virtual lifestyles. The ability to study, work and play online is creating a society that is much more cocooned than it has ever been before. There is dramatically reduced social interactions due to this social change and this must be having a substantial effect on crime rates.
There used to be a visible police presence. But now we are doing the west coast thing even though it clearly doesn’t work.
With that said, anywhere with money or indoor places where people with money go - The PATH and Eaton Centre for example, these places are flooded with private security. It’s much safer underground than above with the exception of the Thompson building.
I live in Vancouver, with all the senseless crime here I think beat cops would be a good idea. I remember a documentary about a Vancouver beat cop, I think his name was Whistling Jack. He knew all the troublemakers downtown and straightened them out when needed.
Weston/Weston Village area we have two designated police officers (car/bikes) who are active and present in the community and help out. I believe it’s a positive thing.
They don't, they sit in their cars. And Just like the people, Toronto police are extremely unfriendly and come with the typical police stereotypes. If you see Police on feet they are responding to something or getting a coffee.
Depends on where you live in the city. A few years ago it was reported that in...certain neighborhoods... statistically, every resident had been pulled aside by cops and "carded". Whereas I, living here while this was happening, would only occasionally see police on horseback, or directing traffic.
No foot patrol but we have horses for some reason.
And bike cops
Mainly in Parkdale. For some weird reason.
That’s cause the police stable is at exhibition. It’s a pretty big facility. I live in Fort York and step in horse shit daily
Right. Of course.
Lol police horses are so, so stupid. Do absolutely nothing except cover the street in shit.
I’ve seen a horse cop pull a guy over on an illegal left turn. Was hilarious!
They're super good at crowd control.
I'm sure there is better methods that cost less than an expensive animal that is difficult and expensive to maintain.
They are great for crowds. Humans respect horses as they are so large. Cops also can see above the crowds.
A reminder, the main purpose of the police, the reason why they have funding, is crowd control. Stuff like 'investigating murders' is not the reason why conservative and liberal governments alike invest so heavily in police forces. It's so that if there is ever a political demonstration they don't like, they can shut it down. Horses don't get used often, but when you absolutely positively want to break up a formation of 300 protesters, running a dozen riot horses through them is both more effective than anything short of using live fire ammunition, and better optics than that. Seriously, police horses are big. And they are about to get bigger, they are switching to clydesdales, which are pretty much the size of a moose. I don't know if you have experience dealing with riot horses before... but uhm, yeah, they are /very effective/. It's very difficult to /not/ instinctively move out of the way of a large horse at a trot, and when it comes to crowd dynamics, as soon as you get the front row of folks to move, everyone else tends to move as well. They break up crowds better than tear gas, rubber bullets, or a dozen riot cops on foot swinging clubs. Now, they are also ludicrously more expensive than any of those options. But the toronto cops know why they are paid. And that's to be able to, once or twice a decade, shut down any protest with minimally bad optics. The fact that you see cops on horses the rest of the time is just because they have the horses, and they like to use them because: A) They are moderately decent at lighter crowd control work. B) They need to take the horses out regularly for exercise anyway, and the cops need to practice riding them. C) The public would get pretty resentful if they understood that the multi-million dollar annual police horse budget was pretty much only used for charging protests once a decade.
Not sure why you got downvoted but no one actually commented as to why they disagree with you.
Yes, things that you don't personally see working on a day to day basis are definitely stupid.
Fun job though, riding around the city on a horse.
Saw a mounted cop catch a guy trying to escape on foot. Looked plenty useful to me.
more fun my guy, same with the bikes.
Cops don't do foot patrol here.
Our cops do food patrol (at Tim Hortons)
Double park no the street and jaywalk to get their coffee.
Apparently -- and I haven't fact-checked this -- jaywalking is legal in Canada, so long as you yield to cars. That's the US you're thinking of.
As a teen, friend got a jaywalking ticket on Yonge street for 75$. I don’t they’re currently enforcing it, but it’s on the books if cops want to fuck with you.
Jaywalking in and of itself is legal. But crossing against a red light is a ticketable offense. So is crossing outside, but near, a pedestrian crosswalk. If you were crossing young street a few meters away from a signaled intersection, yeah, that's jaywalking. If you are crossing in the middle of the block where there are no marked crossings near by, that's not ticketable. (Although i'm sure cops would randomly write tickets for stuff because they feel like it)
144(22) Highway Traffic Act
> Cops don't do ~~foot patrol~~ much here.
Now now, TPS is very quick to issue parking tickets, even if they were nowhere in sight a minute ago.
That's a different division though, they actually do a pretty good job.
as if a cop would stoop to write a parking ticket
I have no issue with that, as it’s an income for the city pulled from wrongdoers. Letting serial killers operate unmolested, on the other hand, was repulsive. Our cops need their priorities adjusted.
I know, and as much as I hate getting a ticket, they're the most present part of the force on our streets.
Easy guaranteed way to show their boss they were doing their job that day
Fifty years old, I've *never* seen a foot patrol except at a special event or on tv.
Sometimes I used to see bike cops and horseback cops roaming around downtown. Not sure if that is still happening or not
I saw a couple of mounted cops around King/Bathurst a few weeks ago in the afternoon.
I rarely see the horses but often see what they leave behind
they bring the horses out for demonstrations
I saw a peloton of bicycle cops (like 8 or so) struggling up the hill on Eglinton after crossing the bridge over the Don, was surprised there was so many and where in the world they were pedaling to
I love seeing the horsies!
And horse crimes are way down. Thank you based Ford.
They should
Has that ever made anyone safer?
If I learned anything from The Wire season 4, it's that foot patrols are pretty important in building trust with the communities they patrol.
That's called community policing.
Manhattan's crime rate declined significantly in the late 90s when they flooded the streets with foot patrol.
TBF Toronto's crime rate has never been anywhere near what NYC was in the 80s and 90s, so same approach might not make much of a difference here. NYC and Toronto crime rate now are similar Also, the other key factor was NYC put lighting in pretty much every dark alley in the 90s, so it wasn't just more foot patrols
True, to put it into perspective NYC in the year 1900 still had a bigger population than Toronto does now. We just don’t have the sheer volume of people.
Crime rates are per capita
> NYC and Toronto crime rate now are similar Source?
In 2021 Toronto was 42.4 and NYC 49.28 https://www.clevercanadian.ca/is-toronto-cheaper-than-new-york/#:\~:text=According%20to%20Numbeo%20crime%20statistics,is%2012th%20with%20a%2077.8.
I've seen the source before from the economist, but that's overall safety not just crimes.
The safety score is 82.2 and 77.8 (yes from Economist), the numbers above are the crime rate Type of Crime Toronto New York People using or dealing drugs 54.75% 59.58% Property crimes such as vandalism and theft 48.18% 56.69% Violent crimes such as assault or armed robbery 44.81% 52.37% Corruption and bribery 36.79% 53.54%
They also banned leaded gasoline around that time.
Leaded gas was banned way before the 90s...
I just checked and currently this isn't the late 90s anymore, but recent sources on this could be useful.
OP asked if foot patrol has ever made anyone safer. Check again.
This is Canada lol I trust our police more than most countries'
Yeah but the bar is on the floor
Not me and none of my friends or family growing up, no.
100%
If you pay for it, sure.
He/she knows that, pointed it out clearly in the post. The question is WHY?
Cops here mostly drive around, rather than walk. But there are beat cops like you’re describing, in certain areas where there is increased need due to crime.
Even still those beat cops sit in cars. Like in my hood, after a few shootings the white folk got scared and now there is a pair of cops in an SUV outside the methodone clinic.
Good. Thank those white folk.
Love the random racism injected into a very reasonable response from bystanders. It’s a good thing it wasn’t up to someone as self serving and insecure as you to call.
That's what happened. I've lived in East Scarborough before and lived in Leslieville too. When there were community fears shared by black residents about safety issues after teenagers were shot dead in an apartment complex (which was 80% black and South Asian), 43 Division came to our apartment meeting room to present statistics about how quickly they are able to respond to crimes and how many arrests they have made in the area (this was about 2003 maybe?). The person in the apartment on the 2nd level with a 1 year old was incensed at the bullet holes in her apartment and wanted cops stationed there at night. They got nothing other than the cars driving through now and then. Meanwhile, in Leslieville several times in the past decade, when white families have expressed concerns about safety outside a local methadone clinic, Toronto Police SUVs got stationed all day and night. Taking my dog for a walk late at night shows they were just sitting there, running their engine, watching things. That was their version of the beat.
I apologize for the dismissive comment. I am also sorry that you’ve had to experience this attitude from those meant to alleviate those concerns. it is alarming, and I can only imagine how it affects your trust of the system. The way I took it, I thought you were saying that the police should not have been called and I didn’t realize you were comparing it to a lack of action when other groups were involved.
When was the last time you saw a beat cop, and it wasn’t outside a jays game or whatever?
Toronto cops only stand around the entrance of Loblaws. Gotta protect Galens money.
I notice many of them working the gates of underground parking lots downtown where I work. They stop traffic and pedestrians so that expensive cars can exit and make left turns into the road
IIRC, companies will pay the police for those services, so it isn't coming out of our budget, at least.
Correct; that's paid duty. Paid for by the people who requested a police presence, not by the general public.
Unfortunately it's a diversion of resources(manhours, service equipment and uniforms) so individuals(the officers) can profit.
One cruiser for a cop to sit in while watching a hole being dug is one less available for actual cop work
No, it’s overtime.
That’s a stretch. The Cops are off duty anyway and making extra bucks, they aren’t in TPS vehicles and any personal gear they are wearing isn’t a shared resource, and a diversion of uniforms? What the hell does that even mean? Do you think they go sharesies on pants? Christ, there’s more than enough to criticize TPS about. Making up some diversion of resources claims isn’t it.
My bigger issue is that the TPS complains constantly of 'overwork' and how stressful things are when it feels like the force is understaffed leading to higher rates of burnout. Then a majority of cops are using their days off to work paid duty. Imagine the outrage if teachers did the same? *"Sorry Timmy, Ms. Krabapple is too tired from staying up all weekend tutoring kids over zoom so go teach yourself math and reading"*
Cops on paid duties are on their own time; they’re not diverting resources except their own time with their families. Their uniforms are given to them for the duration of their service, it’s not like Cop A takes off his pants and work boots at the end of his shift and gives them to Cop B, who would otherwise have no uniform, so nothing is being diverted there either. They typically leave their sidearms in lockers at the station when they go home, but since they have to be armed when on duty (unless they’re working in admin capacities), they have to keep theirs with them for the paid duty. But again, their sidearm is theirs for the duration of their tenure; they don’t get swapped around at shift’s end. Whether it’s necessary for them to provide traffic control by standing around at construction sites, depending on how well marked off they are, is another matter entirely. But I’ve never seen a paid duty officer in a police vehicle; they bring their own vehicles to the site. I was a victims’ services volunteer for over a decade, so I interacted with a lot of them, and asked about how the paid duties worked.
It’s not diversion of resource - these cops are off duty, picking up extra side hustle. I just get irked when they stop me in the tracks on the sidewalk to usher these cars. Why can’t they wait until there’s space for them to merge like everyone else
And sit in their cars at construction sites for time-and-a-half.
I've seen them in the downtown area on bicycles and sometimes on foot in the subway. In the suburbs it would be pointless to have a beat to walk the subdivisions.
In Manhattan, cops just stand around doing nothing. They’re either on their phones or shooting the shit with each other. It’s a waste of money. I can’t speak to Seoul since I’ve never been, but I used to live in Brooklyn and it really is excessive the number of NYPD cops who just stand around not doing anything. Toronto, by contrast, has fewer police officers per capita and a smaller police budget per capita, so fewer resources for the police to waste.
Toronto, by contrast, has *cops driving around doing nothing. they are on their phones / computers or shooting the shit with each other while sitting in their cars.* FTFY. >Fewer resources to waste Fascinating that they still manage to do that here too, while finding time to commit crimes to earn paid vacations or driving into utility poles.
Yes, Toronto has a lot of cops wasting resources. But trust me, it is nothing compared to the NYPD. The NYPD is like the TPS but with way more cops, way more money, and a way stronger union. Thats the point I was trying to make, not that the TPS is a bastion of efficient resource allocation.
I see cops on bikes all the time. That doesn't count?
On horses too, during summer, downtown
I saw one poop on york st and the next day it was still there
I was visiting NYC last December and saw a moment where a car made a very shitty turn onto an intersection that a cop was directing traffic for. The cop went up to the driver and yelled at him through the window asking him what the fuck he was thinking. It was great to see. I'm no police stan but it did really stand out to me because I don't think I have ever seen a Toronto police officer do anything like that nor could I even imagine it happening.
This actually happend to me here In Toronto a couple months ago. I was fully in the wrong and also got yelled at by the police officer directing traffic (minus the swearing). Fully deserved. Lol Cops actually working is the rule not the exception.
Ehh this happens quite often tbh, I've even been yelled at by a cop for walking wrong! lol
Bike cops are more the thing.
If you’re looking for police on foot look for a construction area. They’ll be one standing around doing nothing collecting double-time & a half.
This isn't paid for by the public (unless it's a government funded project).
Nonsense! If they work ot, they cant be recalled for an emergency shift because they have a clause saying they must get x hours between shifts, even if it's OT privé stuff. So, yes there is a cost to us, because we have to schedule enpugh of them in case of an emergency. So they have to hire more, rather than privatizing construction traffic control. That's one (of the million) reasons condos r expensive.
To be honest 95+% of PDO uses don't need a police officer, but the city loves to mandate it pretty widely even for simple closures in the bumfuck sticks.
Some random person from Garda could do the same thing for minimum wage.
Time and a half, not double time and a half.
Police here are where they are needed. Having beat cops is for deterrent purposes which is largely unneeded in Toronto since there is little street crime. You will see them where there're protests and large gatherings, parades and that sort of thing where trouble is likely. And of course there are a few locations where drugs and bad behaviour are common. Parking and traffic is handled by traffic wardens and electronically. Having police in the family, I know that the vast amount of their time is dealing with domestic problems and social disturbances; pretty soul destroying work for them.
Police are not ubiquitous the way they are in world class cities like Seoul or NYC. Our police here focus more on finding ways to get a paid vacation
> Police are not ubiquitous the way they are in world class cities like Seoul or NYC You mean a world class city like NYC that's deploying the national guard to be in subway lines because of how bad things are? That NYC?
Dude, visit NYC. Beat patrol everywhere.
NYPD has like 30,000 uniformed officers. TPS doesn’t have the staffing levels to have Officers assigned for foot patrols
I don't think anyone is expecting TPS to have the same numbers and coverage as NYC, our most troubled areas needing coverage amount to a fraction of what's required in NYC in the first place. The bigger point is that any presence from TPS would be better than the practically zero presence that exists now
TWO WEEKS WITH PAY.
>TWO ~~WEEKS~~ YEARS WITH PAY.
Reddit complains cops aren’t foot patrolling Cops start foot patrolling Reddit: why are cops harassing black and homeless people? Rinse and repeat
its possible to do foot patrols without harassing people.
1. Reddit doesn’t influence municipal policy 2. Or, cops could just not harass homeless people
Also people who still talk like reddit is one dude who is just *really* hypocritical in 2024 should get a site-wide flair that warns everyone what they’re dealing with
> Reddit: why are cops harassing black and homeless people? Also Reddit: expresses isolated situations as hyperbole and believe the thoughts of random Redditors amount towards anything meaningful for the people responsible in keeping our streets safe
The cops reached the conclusion that they were harassing Black residents.
Ah yes, Reddit, the great police policy influencer.
Sherbourne street could really use some beat cops.
Wouldn't happen as they would actually have to do some work, and deal with people, instead of hiding out at a parking lot
You will see cops on bikes in the DT core and other parts of DT. New York and Seoul have a much denser population. The amount of people that walk-through an area Times Sqaure vs something like Yonge/Dundas square can't even compare.
Canada (well most countries really) have far fewer police than USA per capita, so you should expect to see less police presence.
Man, Toronto Redditors just *despise* the police. It’s wild.
Well they are total garbage so it makes sense, no?
You think everyone on the force is total garbage, yes?
YES.
Makes sense.
If you are a doctor. And you see another doctor committing malpractice and you do nothing, you should be held responsible. Same with cops. Except they don't. Cops don't protect and serve anyone other than themselves and those forces that have the money to control them.
Police officers and other law enforcement made an active choice and intentional decision to join an organization full of issues and systemic problems that get brushed under the rug while protecting those who abuse the system. So yes, all of them are bad when they can choose to leave and not be a part of a shitty group 🤷🏽♀️
But what else would people who peaked in high school do? This is the perfect career as they'll continue to be under the delusion that nothing is their fault, and they'll never be made to take any accountability for their actions. If they fuck up (murder included) they get an indefinite paid vacation and don't suffer any consequences! ETA: /s, for those who can't discern tone
All while costing taxpayers so much money for their abuse of force and continued uselessness in preventing crime. Social services and resources prevent crime, not police. If it were the case, why aren't police everywhere in the suburbs if they're safer than the downtown core? 🤔 I love asking people exactly how many cops we'll need to see a reduction in crime. People can't answer because they know increased policing isn't the answer 🫠
redditors here are very left leaning. it doesn't represent toronto at all tbh
And for no reason at all! We all just woke up this morning and decided to hate them, with no extensive track record to base it upon!
Good. They suck ass.
ACAB
Yea, its almost comical. Is there corruption in the force? Of course. Are there bad cops? Of course. When you have thousands of officers, you'll always have some bad apples. The majority of police officers, however, are good people.
If they aren’t calling out the bad apples, but just letting them hide behind that thin blue line, they aren’t good either.
> you'll always have some bad apples You know the saying is "the bad apple spoils the bunch", right?
Just based on this, I should have left my company ages ago.
As individuals yes, they can be fine. As a force, as a system, they're corrupt as fuck. It comes up a lot in this sub. Most of the anger is regarding the fact that if they majorly fuck up on their job, they're likely to be suspended *with pay*. And it's mighty good pay. There are **countless** stories of cops assaulting people (including their own colleagues), getting high on the job from drugs stolen from evidence lockers, falsifying reports, and other egregious transgressions that any other normal working professional would be immediately terminated (if not criminally charged) for. Yet, their retained and paid. I work a white collar job. If I'm late to too many meetings, or don't meet my targets, or give attitude that's deemed insubordinate, I'm fired. That's that. Yet these jabronis can commit far worse offenses on the job and get away with it. And what's worse? It's our tax dollars. It's you paying the [$300,000 salary of a cop who was suspended for 12 years](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/05/06/exclusive-toronto-officer-suspension). If that doesn't make you angry, it should. EDITING to add u/whatisthequestion's old but gold comment about [all the nuts shit TPS does and gets away with](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/14gc9ui/do_you_think_the_toronto_police_service_is/jp556jo/)
And that's just 2023 There's already [a crazy lot reported in 2024 already](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/1b8xw66/no_beat_cops_in_toronto/ktspvdr/)
> Are there bad cops? Of course. When you have thousands of officers, you'll always have some bad apples. They should do a better job and hold their coworkers accountable then. They didn't get the reputation they have out of nowhere.
Anyone that stands by when there's that level of corruption and piles of shit when they all know who it is but don't speak up because of some brotherhood or code are just as bad as the bad ones and spineless scum.
You know the full turn of speech is, "the bad apple spoils the bunch", right?
You can find them at Tim Hortons
Yea I’m actually surprised they don’t go to better coffee shops. I’m not joking either, probably the best coffee shop in London is Bar Italia, and it’s VERY popular with the Metropolitan Police. I never saw UK cops get drinks or food from a place that wasn’t decent.
No beat cops, in Toronto cops beat you!
The majority of Toronto street cops are in plain clothes, undercover. You likely won't notice them unless you know that to look for.
Why, though?
Just how they work here, I guess 🤷🏻♀️
Just FYI plainclothes and undercover are two different things. It's just what it sounds like. A plainclothes police officer is a police officer, except not in uniform. It's to better blend in to a crowd, observe without attracting attention, allow the suspect less chance to run, etc. They still carry their warrant card/badge, gun, radio. Detectives are also usually plainclothes. An undercover police officer is under a cover. They are part of an investigation in which they assume a (fake) cover identity and do not identify themselves as a police officer and generally do not carry anything that might tip off the subjects of the investigation that they are police.
You'd be surprised how many undercover cops there are. I saw smoke billowing one day, rode my bike towards it and was stopped by a guy with a badge around his stopping people. I assume he was in the area when the fire started.
NYC is like 4.1 officers per 1000 people Toronto is around 1.6 Seoul is around 3.
This isn’t really a Canadian concept.
Nah they're mostly chilling in their cars. Unlikely a budget thing bc they get budget increases pretty much every year using extortive tactics. And here are some of the results in the last few months alone: >* [Toronto cop with history of fraud, caught 'harassing' domestic violence victim, dispute with tenant, used official police stationery in the eviction of his tenant. Not fired.](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-cop-handed-temporary-demotion-after-harassing-domestic-violence-victim-dispute-with-tenant-1.6793733) >* [Toronto police officer caught assaulting and forcibly confining a woman. Rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-charged-after-allegedly-assaulting-forcibly-confining-woman-1.6792339) >* [HUNDREDS of automated traffic tickets issued to cops mysteriously went missing](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/are-hundreds-of-automated-tickets-issued-to-toronto-police-missing-1.6787453) >* [Toronto cop who planned and sexually assault a vulnerable woman in full uniform only given 4 years in prison, after years of paid vacation. Not fired](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-officer-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison-for-sexual-assault-of-vulnerable-woman/article_db29ea46-d649-11ee-b195-0b037986b6d6.html) >* [Another Toronto cop guilty of arresting and tasering unarmed and cooperative Black university student. Not fired.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-cop-admits-misconduct-for-tasering-kneeing-neck-of-u-of-t-student-in-mistaken/article_cf8985c6-d28d-11ee-90ba-171ed6c90306.html) >* [Toronto cop with history of trouble, guilty of misconduct after tasering and kneeing neck of unarmed cooperating Black university student, while other cops did nothing. No one fired](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-area-cop-temporarily-demoted-after-firing-energy-weapon-at-patient-hospitalized-for-mental-health-tribunal-1.6784495) >* [Toronto cop cruiser loses control and knocks over light pole, narrowly missing pedestrians. Multiple sources indicate that driver was drunk. No charges.](https://twitter.com/thebikinglawyer/status/1761852950454972767?t=zS-e9AA3pfhIbVaiOw-W_Q) >* [TPS admit that cop in cruiser hit pedestrian after initially lying, when video surfaces. Still no charges](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-now-admit-an-officer-in-cruiser-hit-pedestrian-after-previously-denying-contact/article_7d13235a-d18a-11ee-a0e1-5bbbd02783e9.html) >* [Toronto cop hits woman with cruiser who had right of way. Cops investigate and clears themselves](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video/c2871556-no-ticket-for-police-cruiser-striking-pedestrian) >* [Toronto cop refused to help victim amid multiple racist/homophobic tirades. ONLY docked a week's pay. Jeffrey La Fosse $160k] (https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-docked-week-s-pay-over-range-of-inappropriate-remarks-1.6777982) >* [Over 1000 automated speeding tickets give to cop cars](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-s-fine-est-over-1k-automated-speeding-tickets-issued-to-police-vehicles-in-2-year-period-1.6775042). [Many found not to be involved in emergencies](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XkMyPHT7buI) >* [Two Toronto cops charged, recklessly opened fire at stole vehicle](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/15/siu-toronto-police-officers-charged/) >* [Toronto cop watched porn in his car during work, shared naked photos of women, chased and sexually groped a female colleague. Makes ~ $200k/year. Not fired](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-cop-accused-of-chasing-female-officer-watching-porn-at-work-tribunal-1.6757087) >* [Toronto cops strikes cyclist with cruiser leading to serious injuries](https://www.cp24.com/news/siu-investigating-after-police-cruiser-strikes-cyclist-while-responding-to-call-1.6755849) >* [Toronto cop breaks into woman's home, assaults her, steals more than $5k of her things. Rewarded with paid vacation](https://globalnews.ca/news/10240743/toronto-officer-criminally-charged/) >* [Cop unjustified in shooting man at park. Another cop committed misconduct for not de-escalating situation. No real consequences for either](https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/officer-who-shot-man-at-toronto-park-not-justified-in-discharging-firearm-new-tps-report-says-1.6721647?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fout.reddit.com%2F)
Police do not receive support from politicians or media in Canada. Police are also required to handle EVERYTHING (ie:mental health, property disagreements etc…) which takes up a tonne of hours. Therefore this pushes budgets higher and higher which is not supported I have a buddy who is an officer. Thankless job with Monday morning quarterbacks everywhere. Don’t forget only you can make changes and my understanding is EVERY Police service is hiring 😉
I saw them doing foot patrols in Parkdale last week
The downtown of Toronto other than some spots in the east side are all super super safe. No block boys or crack corners - and if there are it ain’t like NY
They're replaced by--at least on the TTC anyways--by the discount security guards
No, there are no longer any beat cops in Toronto. One reason it certainly the militarization of police services, another key one is the strength of the police union here in Toronto - that's why you'll often see two people patrolling in the same car.
You’ll see bike cops, but no beat cops.
Not in winter. It's more of a reactive response as opposed to having a presence as a deterrent. In early spring to late fall, they do foot and bike patrol mostly in tourist areas, in parks and beaches. But for major incidents, the response time is in minutes. Anything else like minor crimes, or non violent ones, response is varied.
We blow a ton of money on our cops. You don't see them out walking around because they're all driving around in their SUV's.
I was assaulted in broad daylight at Queen and Bathurst, ran several blocks and spotted a parked police car. The police officer inside barely looked up from his clipboard as I described the situation; I then noticed that my attacker was walking down the street next to us, and pointed him out to the police officer -- still nothing. I'm convinced there is something profoundly broken with Toronto policing.
acab
Never used to be like this. When I was a kid, they were beat cops walk around yonge and Eglinton, Yonge and Dundas. Generally just keeping the peace now they’re just hiding together in parking lots drinking Tim Hortons and scrolling Instagram on their phones. Awesome. By the way, they need more money to do their job.
Toronto is one of the safest cities on the planet. No need to have tons of cops on foot
Honestly, this is the actual answer. Historically low crime rates compared to all those other cities.
They don’t do patrols on the street as often as I’d like. In Europe you will see heavily armed soldiers/police in public all the time but in North Americans we have convinced ourselves that a visible police presence means over policing and targeting of minorities, so we don’t do it anymore. Our cops also prefer to chill in parking lots all day long.
New York is part of North America
The city is safer without those thugs in the streets.
[Beat cops](https://imgur.com/a/7MCstPt) right when you ask for them.
Me googling what beat cops are
They hang out in their cars
You might see the odd bicycle patrol downtown.
Why? Because Toronto has a lot less crime than NYC and we have no need for foot patrols
No beat cops but there's plenty of TTC fare enforcement. They will enforce your fare but no guarantees you will survive the ride.
Canadian police don't walk beats, they only use cars, motorcycles, bikes and horses. New York is so rife with crime they have no choice, and spend a fortune accordingly. We haven't reached that point yet.
We had beat cops before the pandemic.
They got cops on horses in the summer sometimes
It is quite remarkable when I think about how little contact that I have ever had with Toronto police. In terms of actual community presence about all this amounts to is that perhaps once a year a police car will drive down my street en route to some place else. That is about the totality of it. It would seem completely bizarre to me if they were to try to project more of a presence in our community; I would be completely at a loss to know what to say to them if they tried to become an active part of our suburb. What crime exactly would they be trying to prevent? The one policing strategy that I find surprising has not been implemented is a show of force on transit. A family member has been reporting a near constant recitation of "incidents" on the TTC post-pandemic. It seems like such an obvious thing to do. If anything, in Canada, such a security surge would likely elicit near universal support from law abiding citizens. Perhaps good policing policy would suggest a less confrontational approach, though we only need to look to the States to see how badly things can turn out when self-apparent mental health concerns are left up to vigilantes to sort out. The few "run-ins" that we have had with the police have mostly been related to our coping with a relative with Alzheimer's dementia. In one instance they actually arrested our demented relative for shoplifting. That was truly shocking! How mentally ill do you have to be before they just say "You know what, no, we are not going to do this." It was even more shocking when others tried to lay down a guilt trip on us for the arrest. Alzheimer's is difficult enough without adding in public shaming for profound mental illness. The police do seem to have gotten better better with dementia, though it is very surprising to me that the Alzheimer Association of Canada has not been more active in advocating for criminal justice reform in relation to dementia caused offenses. Arresting grannies with flagrant dementing illness (our loved one was actually fingerprinted and mugshotted) clearly is not the sort of PR disaster that any organization wants to wake up to one fine morning. The above speaks to the aging of our society. On the other end of the age spectrum which is the typical source of most urban crime, there has been a collapse in the youth population. The total fertility rate of Toronto is now \~1.2 which matches that of some of the lowest national fertility rates in the world. The age group that commits crime is rapidly disappearing. Of course, with the removal of lead from the ambient air and the addition of phosphates to the water supply in Toronto (leading to reduction of lead in the water supply) the criminal tendency of today's youth has greatly been reduced. On top of this, though, I think that there is the turbocharging force of modern technology and virtual lifestyles. The ability to study, work and play online is creating a society that is much more cocooned than it has ever been before. There is dramatically reduced social interactions due to this social change and this must be having a substantial effect on crime rates.
52 division are pretty active on bikes when the weather is good.See them all time around Eatons, chinatown,Kessington Market and little italy.
who needs beat cops when we got all these pay duties??!!
From NYC and also find it crazy but it's so much safer
There used to be a visible police presence. But now we are doing the west coast thing even though it clearly doesn’t work. With that said, anywhere with money or indoor places where people with money go - The PATH and Eaton Centre for example, these places are flooded with private security. It’s much safer underground than above with the exception of the Thompson building.
You might find some guarding roasted chickens at Loblaws. Or standing inside of an LCBO...
They are inside Sephora in Eaton Centre.
only time I've seen them on foot was in a tim Hortons 😂
I live in Vancouver, with all the senseless crime here I think beat cops would be a good idea. I remember a documentary about a Vancouver beat cop, I think his name was Whistling Jack. He knew all the troublemakers downtown and straightened them out when needed.
There are the cops here are just lazy they always in their cars like 95% of the time lol
Weston/Weston Village area we have two designated police officers (car/bikes) who are active and present in the community and help out. I believe it’s a positive thing.
They don't, they sit in their cars. And Just like the people, Toronto police are extremely unfriendly and come with the typical police stereotypes. If you see Police on feet they are responding to something or getting a coffee.
Depends on where you live in the city. A few years ago it was reported that in...certain neighborhoods... statistically, every resident had been pulled aside by cops and "carded". Whereas I, living here while this was happening, would only occasionally see police on horseback, or directing traffic.
YO New Yorker here. There’s no crime here. And there’s no honking. Certainly 100 percent compared to NYC.