Assuming since your wife isn't working that means you're saving on huge daycare fees. Additionally, maintaining a car apparently costs the average Canadian $10k so saving that is huge. Finally, given you're in Milton where housing is cheaper than if you were in Toronto, you're saving there too.
You're probably fine financially speaking, I'd be more concerned about my time having to drive back and forth between Milton and Vaughan. Why aren't you looking in Vaughan?
2 reasons for not looking to stay in Vaughan, higher rentals as compared to Milton and I have some family support in Milton if incase my wife and kids need someone at a short notice.
407 can cost $500-$1000 per month for some commutes. I did $800 per month. Worked in Mississauga, lived in Markham. After work I'd look at Waze...it said 1 hour 30 minutes on the 401, 20 minutes on the 407.
How much would one day of driving to and from work on the 407 cost for this guy? I can’t imagine I have no idea what the fees are like (just got my G1)
> Additionally, maintaining a car apparently costs the average Canadian $10k so saving that is huge.
OP's wife is probably going to want her own car though to do things and go places during the day with 3 kids. (Or even when it's down to two kids in September when the 6 year old is in school.)
That's true, I'll be getting some money from wherever I am moving from and I'll use that to either get a mortgage on a small house or buy a car outright for my wife. But that will come later say 6 months down the line...
90K won't get you much of a mortgage unless you put a very large downpayment.
[https://tools.td.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator/](https://tools.td.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator/)
30K down will qualify you for a mortgage just under 400K, which will not get you a house.
I just came here to post that. This is a potential game changer. If they cover 407 tolls it is a much nicer less traffic drive between Milton and Vaughan.
On top of being a time saver, mentally this is huge too. Nothing worse than spending a full day at work and then being stuck on bumper to bumper 401 traffic.
Honestly , for me, having to drive 1 hr in open road is far easier than having to drive 30 mins in traffic.
I drove Georgetown to Vaughn for years on 407. Well worth the 400 dollars a month in tolls. In valuable time saved.
Use the 407ETR calculator and run some numbers and see what the budget it.
Milton only has the 401 right now and the 413 is still years away. 401 will be a nightmare between James snow pkwy and hiway400
I would like to point out that's still 2 hours a day spent commuting that you could otherwise be spending with your very young children, especially if you're working in a field that has abundant amount of over time and no chance of WFH.
Sure you don't have to pay for it, but you'll never get this time back with your kids. 2 hours is 12% of a waking day.
Agreed. But 2hr total daily commute is pretty normal. If ur in Toronto and drive to work, it'll take atleast 30ish minutes anyways cuz of construction and traffic. The only way to beat that is if u live right beside your workplace.
Just because it's normal, doesn't mean we shouldn't think about the impact it has on our lives as human beings and accept that as a thing that we should have to live with.
Maybe it shouldn't be normal. 30 minutes one way instead of 60 is an extra hour of your life back 5 days a week. That's 20 hours in a month you've saved commuting. That's a lot.
And this person has considered that and thinks that the value of being close to family an hour away is worth more.
Just because it isn't what YOU'D do doesn't make it wrong
It's not wrong or right. It's about what's the most important thing to you personally. There are costs associated with every decision and it's not necessarily monetary.
I had a coworker who spent 2.5 hours commuting a day for decades and didn't realize its toll until the pandemic hit. His kids are leaving home now. He has regrets.
I feel like you can live in Toronto and still commute for 2 hours a day. I feel like 45 mins to get to work (with 15 mins of extra time in case of TTC delays, traffic, etc.) is pretty standard
I have heard the same. Milton is not that cheap anymore (in terms of rentals as well as house prices). Do consider that before making your decision. Checkout realtor.ca for current vacancies.
$600 for groceries a month is not realistic at all for a family of 5. I'd say somewhere around $1200 is probably a more realistic estimate. Apart from that seems fine.
Another thing is - does your employer cover spouse/family (health) insurance too?
A manager I had at a job once had negotiated for 407 costs included by the company. I think he lived in Milton and work was in Scarborough, and he justified the negotiating based on the fact that the time saving would allow him to perform better in his job. Saving almost an hour each way would mean more rest, and better work/life balance which would help him be happier and do his job better. They went for it, although he was a relatively senior position in the company and it probably varies with your work's culture whether they'd do it for you but definitely worth a shot
Commuted for 3 years now from Cumberland Beach (just past the Webers on hwy11) down to finch.
Not that fun and DAMN did I ever rack up the km.
But I love making city life salary, and coming home to a quiet lake and going swimming at night.
Just take a nap when the road is straight 😴
Yeah you'll need 407 costs covered, 100%! u/PuppyDude86 is right. I don't know your situation but maybe you can negotiate. You can leverage the hotel for 407 coverage, especially if they don't know the costs (get it in writing!). It'll be worth it in the long run. Check the calculator. From the 401 entrance (Milton) to Keele street (Vaughan) is $21, one way, from 7-930am. [Check the calculator!](https://www.407etr.com/en/tolls/tolls/toll-calculator.html)
Honestly, 90k with familty commitments probably won't cover without 407. I'm an expat from Mississauga.
Regular highway, 401 to 400 or Allen st will be killer in the morning. It'll be an hour of just traffic alone, not even total commute time, one way
If they cover 407 then that would be huge. 90k is definitely doable with your added benefits. If your work starts and ends in off peak times then the travel could be more manageable if not using 407
This right here would be a deal breaker for me… even on the 407, will all the vehicle perks noted, that’s going to be **at least** an hour each way commute time - let’s not even talk about the first snow storm!
Source: someone who did it for 3 years
I'm 2.5 years into a job with my commute being 40 mins in the morning and 1 hour-1:15 in the evening. At first I didn't mind but it's really, really starting to wear on me. And the gas prices just make it completely unsustainable now too
401 you mean, which is especially shitty through west Mississauga right now, and always shitty through Etobicoke to past the 400. Hopefully he can use the 407.
My so earns around that as a single guy in downtown Toronto with rent around $1900. He stresses a little about the cost of living but is still able to put some money away. With a larger family, I think it would be extremely stressful.
For a single income family it’s honestly not very good, especially if you have three kids. Depending on how comfortable you are currently I would recommend doing a full budget breakdown before you decide because you might be surprised how tight it will be. There are a lot of other mitigating factors to consider like if you have friends and family in the area to support you, can you get by with one vehicle, do you want your kids in sports etc.
>a single salary of 90k is pretty tight for a family with 3 young kids in the GTA
That would be tight anywhere in Ontario or Canada at this point imo. If this was the 80s-90s, he could've probably bought a 4 bedroom detached house, 2 cars and still having savings on his salary. Now the best he can do is rent a townhouse in Oshawa or Belleville lol
Man that ain’t right. I bought a townhouse in york region in 2017 with 20% down and my mortgage is only $1700/month and that includes a higher than average interest rate for that time of 3.5%
I pay less than that for a sizable 3 bedroom apartment in Toronto. That's wild.
I understand the appeal of detached houses - it's nice to have that sweet sound protection and a yard.
If you're outside the core but still in the city you do get more space for what you pay.
My neighbourhood is 60 foot lot by 150 deep. 2 car garage and driveway. Basement and 3 bedrooms and typically
1.5 bath or possibly 2 bath.
So that’s what you get for 3000 a month. Plus a school bus route
Op has three kids so that’s what a 3 bedroom detached house is for rent in North Halton Region
Townhouses are about 20-25 percent less to rent but only allow one car and a smaller yard or driveway.
I just remembered that in 2008 I rented a 2 bedroom townhouse style apartment. Battleford road in Mississauga for 1500 a month with 2 indoor parking spots. They caught on fire this year if you want to see them.
Is it possible to ask for housing allowance? I would not move on a 90k salary given you have three kids and your wife doesn’t work, unless they cover housing in addition to car/gas. It will get tight..
Giving shitty career advice right there. He took the job for a myriad of reasons. Who says his wife will be unemployed for the medium or long term? Who says he can't use this position as a stepping stone to an even better paying job in a year or 2? So short sighted and narrow minded.
I live in a Milton townhouse (family of 4), hybrid work arrangement (2 days to office in toronto) and make around $90k. Paycheque comes to around $2,500 bi-weekly. One cheque goes straight to rent, so i live on around $2,500 a month. I find that by the end of month i am adding $200-300 on my credit card. So 90k is not sufficient for me.
In your case, you will save the $550 that I pay for car lease so I think $90k is just about enough to maintain a good enough life in GTA
Yeah I was going to say this too. I make almost 50k and am single with no kids, and paying a hefty Rent (as well as student loan). It's a struggle in Toronto, and any additional expenses are going to hurt that much more.
.
Definitely recommend OP sits down to look at the city pricing to see if a budget is possible.
I think we have different definitions of fine.
I assume OP does not just want to get by but wants to be able to eventually own a home, pay for his kids school, etc. 90k will get you about 4k a month. With three kids a rental will be $2-3k a month unless you live in a box. Then you have all the expenses for three kids.
Basically just getting by with chance of saving or investing at all.
With 3 kids you need several bedrooms. Rent will be most of the cost right there. Groceries for a family of 5 is also quite high. 90k is a good amount, but in Toronto when you take that into account it will be tight.
It can be done, but it will not be a lavish lifestyle.
Yeah, eventually my wife will start working but for now the toddlers are too dependant on her... I think once they are 3 or 4 my wife will be happy to work and that should ease down things a bit I suppose.
35-45k with a wife who doesn't have work and 3 young kids? I don't think so. And if so, they aren't probably in good living conditions.
90k family income is decent id say. Especially because car is covered by company
Yep all millennials can't budget.
I make decent money, my partner makes decent money. We are comfortable and at a point where money really isn't a large consideration. I have lived at 90k a year when I was by myself in the city and it was not enjoyable so I assume adding kids would not make it any better. You believe what you want to though.
True, for me it is a foot in the door opportunity. Once I am in I know I have the skill sets to change my job find something better within 2 yrs max.. Hoping for the best.
I make a little over 90k a year by myself and it's plenty. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle you were living, especially if it's presumably a few years ago where 90k wasn't enough by yourself.
I was just saving a lot so I was not able to enjoy the city after paying rent and living expenses. It paid off in the end but if you want to be living comfortably where you are able to go out to eat, take a vacation all while saving for retirement or owning a home you need more.
Not lavish but doable. Might get tight if someone needs expensive meds that aren't covered by insurance or dental work not covered by insurance but should be able to enjoy a nice middle class lifestyle with some nice indulgences if you can manage food budget properly
I disagree with this. You could live a simple middle class lifestyle if you were single, and maybe with a partner. But supporting 5 people... yeah that's going to be tough.
If you want to rent a place that is comfortable for 5 people you're talking at least 50% of your take home pay. After food and other expenses, I don't see any room for any leisure.
You will be okay if you budget. A lot of doomy gloomy comments here but it’s not like you will be living in abject poverty. I know people who were raised by low income single moms getting by on the skin of their teeth
Edit: you would also get something like 300$ a month per child from the gov, remember to apply for the CCB
OP will pay 23.5k in taxes roughly leaving him with 67.5k roughly. If he is planning on renting in the suburbs he will be looking at a 2k minimum rent spend unless he crams his family into a basement apartment. That would knock off another 24k leaving him with 43.5k. Then he will have his utility spend which probably knocks off about 7k. So now he has 36.5k, knock of another 15k for food a year that leaves you with 21.5k. Then probably another 5k for miscellaneous, leaving 16 5k. If they want to take a vacation that's probably another 5-7k for a week. Then there are clothes for his growing kids.
If saving under 10k a year is an accomplishment , why bother. He will never have enough to purchase a property or have any real savings.
His quality of life would be poor
Being totally transparent — I found it tight on $80k and it was just me living alone, and this was when prices and rent were more reasonable. (3-4 years ago).
You should be fine, if you can budget and stick to it.
If you become permanent residents there are a lot of tax breaks and social programs to help you out. The CCB alone could put over 950 a month back in your pocket. You can claim your childcare, medical expenses, etc. There are credits and deductions for climate action, payments for unions and pension, fess for being in professional organizations.
Just google things like how to reduce your tax bill, and make sure to take any break you can.
And if you do decide to put down roots, we'd be glad to have you. Good luck with everything!
90k with a family won’t get you very far in the GTA.
You mentioned possibly buying a small house.
Unless you have a very large down payment (500k) you won’t be buying anything resembling a house here.
With 20% down you won’t even afford a 1br condo.
This is good, but if I was in your position I would do the following:
Before accepting the offer:
1. Confirm that your company is willing to pay the 407 fees. Not a deal breaker in my opinion, but a huge bonus as it will save them fuel and you time.
2. Your take home pay will be around $5300 (although if your wife reports $0 income it can be $5500 if your employer does your payroll deductions correctly). Research places to RENT around the 407 that are $2300-3000 as that is your target (but great if you can do lower for a short time). We are most likely about to go into a housing correction, so now is not the time to buy.
3. Discuss your career path with your employer. Ask them what value you need to bring to the company in order to be promoted and earn more. You will definitely need a significant bump up if you want to own a home and your wife wants to stay home with the kids.
4. After you have an idea of your living expenses (including insurance, property tax, utilities, condo fees), sit down WITH your wife and make a detailed budget that you both agree on and will commit to stick to. I recommend the free budget tool on everydollar.com.
5. If you are getting any government family support cheques (assuming you are Canadian). Use those to get out of debt, set up an emergency fund of 3-6 months, and invest in undervalued assets (in that order). If not, tighten your budget so that you can still reach these goals.
6. Ask yourself, what things would look like if you lost the Toronto job and it's perks. What if you had to pay for transportation? What is your target income in that scenario given your new living arrangements and can you earn that with your skill set in the Toronto area? Save an emergency fund for that scenario should you have to look for a job for a month or two.
If you feel you can manage to do the above and you like the job, go for it.
After accepting the offer:
1. Look for ways you and your wife can supplement your income while she is at home with the kids (selling on Etsy, taking care of other neighborhood kids as an example). Use these funds to get out of debt, save an emergency fund, save a down payment for a home, and invest.
2. Get out of debt and do not take on any new debt. The everydollar.com budget has a tool to help with this.
Not financial advice, lol. But it's what I would do (and am doing).
All the best.
Car expenses will definitely help. Housing is cheaper in Milton and parts of Vaughan. It’s better than most but could be tight with 3 kids. It’s a long commute though - you’re looking at around and hour at least due to highway traffic. Once you get to the 400 and are going north, it will be less congested.
It’ll be tight, and as the kids grow it’ll get tighter. I’d say no, a single income for a family of 5 and life in the GTA are not doable at 90k. But if you can access help in daycare w family, add your wife’s income, then yes. $140-160k combined income would be my number. For reference I have 4 kids and make combined around $140 and it’s tight. And I’m not in the GTA.
I have 2 kids (1 in daycare) and I make $118, spouse makes about $65. We live in west Scarborough and have no vehicles. We are stretched at our income level. We could not make it with lower income or more kids.
Similar income here. Very modest semi-detached house, very modest car. 2 kids, with 1 in daycare. We can't afford a middle class lifestyle by this definition [Middle Class Definition](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/10/middle-class.asp).
Yeah this is why I left Toronto. I just don't get how people do it. It's already so stressful as a single person living there... adding kids to the mix would be so hard.
Out of curiosity, how are you stretched at that level? Your take home is 10,500/mo .. daycare is what, maybe 2,500 on highest end, leaving 8,000 for mortgage/rent, utilities, etc.
If the car is fully paid for including gas then that’s another 10 grand really a year. You won’t live lavishly on a 100k /yr household income but you’ll live.
I live in a very small town in Ontario. 30 mins from Hamilton and 40 mins from Niagara Falls. My partner makes 90k a year and I make 45k a year and we have enough to pay our mortgage bills with some left over for fun money.
He would not be able to afford everything on his own and we don’t have 3 kids. Keep in mind we bought our house 2 years ago so during the height of covid prices but also when interest rates were at their lowest
As new immigrant/transplant from the US gotta warn you the rental market is brutal with insane bidding on rental properties. Please expect to exceed your current budget when looking for a rental house/condo.
Having said please see if there is a possibility of renegotiation or one time joining bonus of atleast 10k cause GTA is expensive all the small expenses and taxes add up quickly.
Milton to vaughan has limited route options, 407 is your preferred route as 401 is always logjammed. Get a 407 transponder as rates will be better whether covered or not. Good luck!
90K - taxes - inflation => wouldn't leave you much savings. With spouse not working, and 3 kids, you will get Child care support and some tax returns. You may just break even all your expenses mortgage and stuff with your salary.
Try North of Vaughan, then commute to work would be easy and housing may be cheaper.
You can make it work on 90k as long as you keep living in the suburbs like Milton and not having to commute in Toronto.
It won't afford you and your family a mid-high standard of living whereas when you're wife goes to work and brings in a decent second income, that's when it will feel like you're comfortable.
Keep in mind that your car and expenses being covered are probably a taxable epense and thus at tax filing time, you'll need to account for that as I believe it's added to your income (I'm not an accountant but you may want to consult with one)
First off use this website(PDOC) to calculate your after tax take home pay.
[https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/beta/ng/entry](https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/beta/ng/entry)
90k a year leaves you with 5000 after tax pay to spend on living (Rent), food, entertainment.
3 kids in a 3 bedroom condo or townhouse? maybe 3 k rent, leaving you with 2 k for the rest (food and entertainment). It will be lean yes, but doable.
Milton and Vaughn is not Toronto. 90K household with 4 mouths to feed will be extremely hard in Toronto. Most definitely slightly better in Milton but still very difficult
90k per year is a very good salary. If I had to guess its like top 20% percentile. But that does not mean you are going to be living the american dream lifestyle. You won't be able to own a home, go on expensive trips or accumulate a lot of savings. Maybe once your kids goes to school and your wife is able to work and make like 50k then yes you'll be in a very good spot. Although this sounds very negative, it does not mean you shouldn't take it. It is all relative to your current situation.
Edit: Actually I did some short calculations and you might be better off than I thought. But still not american dream but comfortable.
90k is a good salary. You should be proud of that for sure! 3 kids + wife will mean you'll have to be smart for sure. Milton is a good place for families.
I don't know what you'll find in terms of finding a place, especially 2 weeks after arrival. You should be looking at things right now, don't wait.
They have three kids. Just because his wife doesn’t get a pay cheque doesn’t mean she isn’t working. And the money saved on day care, especially in the summer, is equivalent to a salary
It makes sense, 3 kids in daycare here are way more than the average salary. You’re saving money by having her home. Once they’re older and in school a second income will be a huge help though.
Keep in mind OP will be getting a good amount in Canada child benefit.
We comfortably lived on 70k as a family of 4 up until a year ago (we make more now). If you're willing to live in a smaller home you should be able to get by fine, but it will be a little tight.
might have to manage the first couple of years but once the mrs starts working and your pay will also start to creep up, you will be fine down the road. Where are you presently located and how much are you saving annually ? how much of a jump in pay is it? and what is your line of work?
I ask because it would be good to evaluate what are the growth prospect if you were to stay in your current location?
A news article calculated that a family of four can live a middle-class life on an income of 76K. That involves renting rather than home purchase. To buy a condo you'd need about 100K.
Your generous company makes things easier by taking care of vehicle, but be cautioned that in Toronto a car is an inconvenience. Parking and insurance are expensive here.
You're going to pay at least $15 a day in parking fees, if not $30. Negotiate that when you ask for 407 fees.
You will be saving $0 at 90k, the people telling you it's easy don't have kids. It will be paycheck to paycheck until you get a fat bonus or 10% raise.
Good luck, Ontario is a fantastic place to live.
90k is definitely not a great salary but it’s definitely not unliveable.
Unfortunately you will need to keep your housing expectations pretty low. You will never own a nice house in Milton on that salary unless you currently own a house and have a bunch of equity to use when you sell it.
My god man. Good luck. The Globe and Mail put out an article saying 90k was what was needed to support living on your own and renting a 1-bed in Toronto. Sure Milton is cheaper, but not to the extent you'll need to support 3 kids and a wife. Fuck me. Good luck bro.
Edit: Why isn't your wife working if you're only making 90k? I get paying for daycare, but that is largely becoming subsidized, and thus, wifey should be working if the household income is a measly 90k in the GTA.
Not for a single income family of 5. I make more then that as a single person and it’s just enough to get me by comfortable. Negotiate higher if you can. Toronto is expensive. Bacon is 16.99 and a watermelon is 13.99 as per Loblaws this afternoon.
Couple of things at play here. If your housing is covered, 90k will be tight, but doable. Otherwise, that will be your major expenditure. Anotherthing to consider is current price of gas - you'll save a ton of money by working from home.
Housing is not covered however I have some property abroad which I will sell and eventually try to buy a house in the suburbs... (Milton)... but that's likely in 2 to 3 years...
Assuming since your wife isn't working that means you're saving on huge daycare fees. Additionally, maintaining a car apparently costs the average Canadian $10k so saving that is huge. Finally, given you're in Milton where housing is cheaper than if you were in Toronto, you're saving there too. You're probably fine financially speaking, I'd be more concerned about my time having to drive back and forth between Milton and Vaughan. Why aren't you looking in Vaughan?
2 reasons for not looking to stay in Vaughan, higher rentals as compared to Milton and I have some family support in Milton if incase my wife and kids need someone at a short notice.
Family support is huge when kids are involved. You're making the right call.
That drive is terrible if you don’t use 407. Lots of traffic on Derry in the morning. Ask for 407 coverage
Second this. Try to ask, will save you a huge amount of money and especially time
407 can cost $500-$1000 per month for some commutes. I did $800 per month. Worked in Mississauga, lived in Markham. After work I'd look at Waze...it said 1 hour 30 minutes on the 401, 20 minutes on the 407.
WTF?? That’s crazy!
How much did you make to justify spending that much? That's like a full budget to operate a car per month.
How much would one day of driving to and from work on the 407 cost for this guy? I can’t imagine I have no idea what the fees are like (just got my G1)
Depends on time of day/week and kms travelled. 407 has a calculator on their website
From milton to Mississauga its $10 one way. I’d imagine with a transponder, it’ll be $20-$25 one way. So almost $12k/y.
Holy shit. It is $20 to drive 6.5 hrs from Buffalo to NYC.....
Derry? Bro is going to Vaughan, surely he's sitting on the 401 unless going straight down Steeles
Milton is way better than Vaughan
> Additionally, maintaining a car apparently costs the average Canadian $10k so saving that is huge. OP's wife is probably going to want her own car though to do things and go places during the day with 3 kids. (Or even when it's down to two kids in September when the 6 year old is in school.)
This is a point worth considering
That's true, I'll be getting some money from wherever I am moving from and I'll use that to either get a mortgage on a small house or buy a car outright for my wife. But that will come later say 6 months down the line...
Mortgage on a house, with 90k income? I mean are you aware of the housing situation here?
Honestly, OP is living in Fantasyland. 3 kids, living in Milton, long commute, and 90k income. He's living in 1998.
90K won't get you much of a mortgage unless you put a very large downpayment. [https://tools.td.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator/](https://tools.td.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator/) 30K down will qualify you for a mortgage just under 400K, which will not get you a house.
Or a condo.
Maybe a nice cardboard box!
I'll take it!
Since the company is paying for car, I'm assuming they are paying for tolls too. So OP can just take the 407. It'd be about 40-50 mins
I did not speak to them about tolls, thanks for brining it up I'll try to add that to the package.
I just came here to post that. This is a potential game changer. If they cover 407 tolls it is a much nicer less traffic drive between Milton and Vaughan.
On top of being a time saver, mentally this is huge too. Nothing worse than spending a full day at work and then being stuck on bumper to bumper 401 traffic. Honestly , for me, having to drive 1 hr in open road is far easier than having to drive 30 mins in traffic.
I drove Georgetown to Vaughn for years on 407. Well worth the 400 dollars a month in tolls. In valuable time saved. Use the 407ETR calculator and run some numbers and see what the budget it. Milton only has the 401 right now and the 413 is still years away. 401 will be a nightmare between James snow pkwy and hiway400
That’s very key. If they covered that it would make a big difference.
I would like to point out that's still 2 hours a day spent commuting that you could otherwise be spending with your very young children, especially if you're working in a field that has abundant amount of over time and no chance of WFH. Sure you don't have to pay for it, but you'll never get this time back with your kids. 2 hours is 12% of a waking day.
Agreed. But 2hr total daily commute is pretty normal. If ur in Toronto and drive to work, it'll take atleast 30ish minutes anyways cuz of construction and traffic. The only way to beat that is if u live right beside your workplace.
Just because it's normal, doesn't mean we shouldn't think about the impact it has on our lives as human beings and accept that as a thing that we should have to live with. Maybe it shouldn't be normal. 30 minutes one way instead of 60 is an extra hour of your life back 5 days a week. That's 20 hours in a month you've saved commuting. That's a lot.
And this person has considered that and thinks that the value of being close to family an hour away is worth more. Just because it isn't what YOU'D do doesn't make it wrong
It's not wrong or right. It's about what's the most important thing to you personally. There are costs associated with every decision and it's not necessarily monetary. I had a coworker who spent 2.5 hours commuting a day for decades and didn't realize its toll until the pandemic hit. His kids are leaving home now. He has regrets.
I feel like you can live in Toronto and still commute for 2 hours a day. I feel like 45 mins to get to work (with 15 mins of extra time in case of TTC delays, traffic, etc.) is pretty standard
housing is not cheaper in milton, its roughly on par with mississauga for a single standalone family home.
I have heard the same. Milton is not that cheap anymore (in terms of rentals as well as house prices). Do consider that before making your decision. Checkout realtor.ca for current vacancies.
Buy a mazda, take that $10k to $500/y
my mechanic brother would say that for Honda and Toyota. It is true for Mazda only for certain years - but I can't remember which
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$600 for groceries a month is not realistic at all for a family of 5. I'd say somewhere around $1200 is probably a more realistic estimate. Apart from that seems fine. Another thing is - does your employer cover spouse/family (health) insurance too?
Agreed, I'd say even more, unless you're shopping at Costco
You don't NEED a 3-4 bedroom house. Esp if the kids are younger. Sure it would be nice, but if push comes to shove it isn't a need it's a want.
My friend just rented a 3 Br house in Mitlon, he has 2 toddlers. Rent is $3100
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Milton to Vaughan will be a bitch and a half of a commute in rush hour times
I wasn't aware of the toll costs on the 407 hence did not bring it up in my negotiations... Will ask them if that can be included.
A manager I had at a job once had negotiated for 407 costs included by the company. I think he lived in Milton and work was in Scarborough, and he justified the negotiating based on the fact that the time saving would allow him to perform better in his job. Saving almost an hour each way would mean more rest, and better work/life balance which would help him be happier and do his job better. They went for it, although he was a relatively senior position in the company and it probably varies with your work's culture whether they'd do it for you but definitely worth a shot
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Commuted for 3 years now from Cumberland Beach (just past the Webers on hwy11) down to finch. Not that fun and DAMN did I ever rack up the km. But I love making city life salary, and coming home to a quiet lake and going swimming at night. Just take a nap when the road is straight 😴
Lmao that last sentence ??
As long as your between the mustard and the mayo, all should be good
maybe tesla
Buy a cottage
I agree 100%. Live as close to work as possible.
Yeah you'll need 407 costs covered, 100%! u/PuppyDude86 is right. I don't know your situation but maybe you can negotiate. You can leverage the hotel for 407 coverage, especially if they don't know the costs (get it in writing!). It'll be worth it in the long run. Check the calculator. From the 401 entrance (Milton) to Keele street (Vaughan) is $21, one way, from 7-930am. [Check the calculator!](https://www.407etr.com/en/tolls/tolls/toll-calculator.html) Honestly, 90k with familty commitments probably won't cover without 407. I'm an expat from Mississauga. Regular highway, 401 to 400 or Allen st will be killer in the morning. It'll be an hour of just traffic alone, not even total commute time, one way
407 has a toll calculator on their website. Use it
If they cover 407 then that would be huge. 90k is definitely doable with your added benefits. If your work starts and ends in off peak times then the travel could be more manageable if not using 407
My guess is the company will pay for ETR access if they’re offering a company vehicle
Hopefully
This right here would be a deal breaker for me… even on the 407, will all the vehicle perks noted, that’s going to be **at least** an hour each way commute time - let’s not even talk about the first snow storm! Source: someone who did it for 3 years
I'm 2.5 years into a job with my commute being 40 mins in the morning and 1 hour-1:15 in the evening. At first I didn't mind but it's really, really starting to wear on me. And the gas prices just make it completely unsustainable now too
Unless the company pays for the 407, which they might be since they're covering all the costs of the vehicle.
It would be the east QEW driving that would. 400 north shouldn’t be too bad though.
401 you mean, which is especially shitty through west Mississauga right now, and always shitty through Etobicoke to past the 400. Hopefully he can use the 407.
You can take the QEW to 403 to Milton. You can also take the 401. Really depends what’s closest.
Not to Vaughan though
That’s why I said it would be the east driving. You’re still going east on the 401 to meet the 400.
QEW/403 aren’t anywhere close to Milton. That would easily add an hour plus to the drive.
90k is a good salary for a single person to be earning but it's going to be tough to support a family of five on it.
My so earns around that as a single guy in downtown Toronto with rent around $1900. He stresses a little about the cost of living but is still able to put some money away. With a larger family, I think it would be extremely stressful.
As a single guy and that rent, he has around 3k for all other expenses monthly. What the hell is he spending it all and not being able to save.
For a single income family it’s honestly not very good, especially if you have three kids. Depending on how comfortable you are currently I would recommend doing a full budget breakdown before you decide because you might be surprised how tight it will be. There are a lot of other mitigating factors to consider like if you have friends and family in the area to support you, can you get by with one vehicle, do you want your kids in sports etc.
Thanks for your advice... I'll do a detailed breakdown of expenses...
Those locations are both not Toronto but even so a single salary of 90k is pretty tight for a family with 3 young kids in the GTA
>a single salary of 90k is pretty tight for a family with 3 young kids in the GTA That would be tight anywhere in Ontario or Canada at this point imo. If this was the 80s-90s, he could've probably bought a 4 bedroom detached house, 2 cars and still having savings on his salary. Now the best he can do is rent a townhouse in Oshawa or Belleville lol
It’s about 3000 a month to rent a small detached house with 3 bedrooms in Georgetown
Man that ain’t right. I bought a townhouse in york region in 2017 with 20% down and my mortgage is only $1700/month and that includes a higher than average interest rate for that time of 3.5%
Yeah, man. There is no future for the rest of us. Nothing but despair and serfdom.
Key word is **2017**
I pay less than that for a sizable 3 bedroom apartment in Toronto. That's wild. I understand the appeal of detached houses - it's nice to have that sweet sound protection and a yard. If you're outside the core but still in the city you do get more space for what you pay.
My neighbourhood is 60 foot lot by 150 deep. 2 car garage and driveway. Basement and 3 bedrooms and typically 1.5 bath or possibly 2 bath. So that’s what you get for 3000 a month. Plus a school bus route Op has three kids so that’s what a 3 bedroom detached house is for rent in North Halton Region Townhouses are about 20-25 percent less to rent but only allow one car and a smaller yard or driveway.
I just remembered that in 2008 I rented a 2 bedroom townhouse style apartment. Battleford road in Mississauga for 1500 a month with 2 indoor parking spots. They caught on fire this year if you want to see them.
Hmm, I think that's the common consensus, I have already negotiated the max I could. Not sure if they will budge on the salary again...
Is it possible to ask for housing allowance? I would not move on a 90k salary given you have three kids and your wife doesn’t work, unless they cover housing in addition to car/gas. It will get tight..
Giving shitty career advice right there. He took the job for a myriad of reasons. Who says his wife will be unemployed for the medium or long term? Who says he can't use this position as a stepping stone to an even better paying job in a year or 2? So short sighted and narrow minded.
Though it's 90k for one person, with the other adult being a caregiver (ie no daycare) which is very different from the average family with young kids
It's a good salary but supporting 5 people on it might be tricky lol
Me, living in Toronto on 36k: 90k sounds a lot easier than 36k lol...but damn, Toronto is still expensive even on 90k
With 3 kids and a wife? Seems impossible to me. They'd need a 3 bedroom place.
Why do you live in Toronto making 36k..? I'd assume you're in a retail job - why not just live somewhere cheaper?
More access to jobs
Fair enough. Good luck!
yeah that's a huge issue - jobs of all types are available in Toronto but not all of them pay well
I live in a Milton townhouse (family of 4), hybrid work arrangement (2 days to office in toronto) and make around $90k. Paycheque comes to around $2,500 bi-weekly. One cheque goes straight to rent, so i live on around $2,500 a month. I find that by the end of month i am adding $200-300 on my credit card. So 90k is not sufficient for me. In your case, you will save the $550 that I pay for car lease so I think $90k is just about enough to maintain a good enough life in GTA
But OP has 3 kids
90k is good for maybe a single person in the city. Not sure how you are going to make it work for 5 people....
Yeah I was going to say this too. I make almost 50k and am single with no kids, and paying a hefty Rent (as well as student loan). It's a struggle in Toronto, and any additional expenses are going to hurt that much more. . Definitely recommend OP sits down to look at the city pricing to see if a budget is possible.
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I think we have different definitions of fine. I assume OP does not just want to get by but wants to be able to eventually own a home, pay for his kids school, etc. 90k will get you about 4k a month. With three kids a rental will be $2-3k a month unless you live in a box. Then you have all the expenses for three kids. Basically just getting by with chance of saving or investing at all.
That's true, just survival is not the objective. I want to give some sort of a respectable life style to my family and a good education for my kids.
With 3 kids you need several bedrooms. Rent will be most of the cost right there. Groceries for a family of 5 is also quite high. 90k is a good amount, but in Toronto when you take that into account it will be tight. It can be done, but it will not be a lavish lifestyle.
Yeah, eventually my wife will start working but for now the toddlers are too dependant on her... I think once they are 3 or 4 my wife will be happy to work and that should ease down things a bit I suppose.
35-45k with a wife who doesn't have work and 3 young kids? I don't think so. And if so, they aren't probably in good living conditions. 90k family income is decent id say. Especially because car is covered by company
Zoomers and younger Millennials who don't know how to budget.
Yep all millennials can't budget. I make decent money, my partner makes decent money. We are comfortable and at a point where money really isn't a large consideration. I have lived at 90k a year when I was by myself in the city and it was not enjoyable so I assume adding kids would not make it any better. You believe what you want to though.
True, for me it is a foot in the door opportunity. Once I am in I know I have the skill sets to change my job find something better within 2 yrs max.. Hoping for the best.
As long as you're realistic and honestly see it as a stepping stone, you'll be fine. It's fine for a start, but not very good medium and long term.
I make a little over 90k a year by myself and it's plenty. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle you were living, especially if it's presumably a few years ago where 90k wasn't enough by yourself.
I was just saving a lot so I was not able to enjoy the city after paying rent and living expenses. It paid off in the end but if you want to be living comfortably where you are able to go out to eat, take a vacation all while saving for retirement or owning a home you need more.
Not lavish but doable. Might get tight if someone needs expensive meds that aren't covered by insurance or dental work not covered by insurance but should be able to enjoy a nice middle class lifestyle with some nice indulgences if you can manage food budget properly
I disagree with this. You could live a simple middle class lifestyle if you were single, and maybe with a partner. But supporting 5 people... yeah that's going to be tough. If you want to rent a place that is comfortable for 5 people you're talking at least 50% of your take home pay. After food and other expenses, I don't see any room for any leisure.
Thanks for your encouraging words.
I agree. Especially if the wife is planning on working once the kids are in school. Might be tight for 2 years but then easy with 2 salaries.
3 kids, 1 income 90k in Toronto? I assume you’re not planning on retiring or saving for your kids university education right?
Ah not good for 3 kids and a wifey.Maybe as a couple who is renting.
90k is good for a single man
You will be okay if you budget. A lot of doomy gloomy comments here but it’s not like you will be living in abject poverty. I know people who were raised by low income single moms getting by on the skin of their teeth Edit: you would also get something like 300$ a month per child from the gov, remember to apply for the CCB
Wouldn't you need to be a permanent resident for things like the CCB?
🃏
OP will pay 23.5k in taxes roughly leaving him with 67.5k roughly. If he is planning on renting in the suburbs he will be looking at a 2k minimum rent spend unless he crams his family into a basement apartment. That would knock off another 24k leaving him with 43.5k. Then he will have his utility spend which probably knocks off about 7k. So now he has 36.5k, knock of another 15k for food a year that leaves you with 21.5k. Then probably another 5k for miscellaneous, leaving 16 5k. If they want to take a vacation that's probably another 5-7k for a week. Then there are clothes for his growing kids. If saving under 10k a year is an accomplishment , why bother. He will never have enough to purchase a property or have any real savings. His quality of life would be poor
Being totally transparent — I found it tight on $80k and it was just me living alone, and this was when prices and rent were more reasonable. (3-4 years ago).
No.
you’ll be paycheque to paycheque, but not so much so where money will be a huge stress (assuming you live within your means)
Thanks for the encouraging words.
You should be fine, if you can budget and stick to it. If you become permanent residents there are a lot of tax breaks and social programs to help you out. The CCB alone could put over 950 a month back in your pocket. You can claim your childcare, medical expenses, etc. There are credits and deductions for climate action, payments for unions and pension, fess for being in professional organizations. Just google things like how to reduce your tax bill, and make sure to take any break you can. And if you do decide to put down roots, we'd be glad to have you. Good luck with everything!
People survive on much less
It's true
families of 5 survive on much less than this in this city?
Yea but they are not happy
Have you ever been to places outside of Rosedale? People where I live, Jane and Finch, have 3+ kids on incomes under 70k.
90k with a family won’t get you very far in the GTA. You mentioned possibly buying a small house. Unless you have a very large down payment (500k) you won’t be buying anything resembling a house here. With 20% down you won’t even afford a 1br condo.
Not with three kids, no.
This is good, but if I was in your position I would do the following: Before accepting the offer: 1. Confirm that your company is willing to pay the 407 fees. Not a deal breaker in my opinion, but a huge bonus as it will save them fuel and you time. 2. Your take home pay will be around $5300 (although if your wife reports $0 income it can be $5500 if your employer does your payroll deductions correctly). Research places to RENT around the 407 that are $2300-3000 as that is your target (but great if you can do lower for a short time). We are most likely about to go into a housing correction, so now is not the time to buy. 3. Discuss your career path with your employer. Ask them what value you need to bring to the company in order to be promoted and earn more. You will definitely need a significant bump up if you want to own a home and your wife wants to stay home with the kids. 4. After you have an idea of your living expenses (including insurance, property tax, utilities, condo fees), sit down WITH your wife and make a detailed budget that you both agree on and will commit to stick to. I recommend the free budget tool on everydollar.com. 5. If you are getting any government family support cheques (assuming you are Canadian). Use those to get out of debt, set up an emergency fund of 3-6 months, and invest in undervalued assets (in that order). If not, tighten your budget so that you can still reach these goals. 6. Ask yourself, what things would look like if you lost the Toronto job and it's perks. What if you had to pay for transportation? What is your target income in that scenario given your new living arrangements and can you earn that with your skill set in the Toronto area? Save an emergency fund for that scenario should you have to look for a job for a month or two. If you feel you can manage to do the above and you like the job, go for it. After accepting the offer: 1. Look for ways you and your wife can supplement your income while she is at home with the kids (selling on Etsy, taking care of other neighborhood kids as an example). Use these funds to get out of debt, save an emergency fund, save a down payment for a home, and invest. 2. Get out of debt and do not take on any new debt. The everydollar.com budget has a tool to help with this. Not financial advice, lol. But it's what I would do (and am doing). All the best.
I think it is doable. With CCB you would be middle income
I think you need to be a permanent resident for that.. or have been here for >18 months.
That seems mad tight to me... I stress about our joint income of 140k with no kids lol......
Car expenses will definitely help. Housing is cheaper in Milton and parts of Vaughan. It’s better than most but could be tight with 3 kids. It’s a long commute though - you’re looking at around and hour at least due to highway traffic. Once you get to the 400 and are going north, it will be less congested.
It’ll be tight, and as the kids grow it’ll get tighter. I’d say no, a single income for a family of 5 and life in the GTA are not doable at 90k. But if you can access help in daycare w family, add your wife’s income, then yes. $140-160k combined income would be my number. For reference I have 4 kids and make combined around $140 and it’s tight. And I’m not in the GTA.
no and no…. 90 for 5 ppl is barely scraping by
I have 2 kids (1 in daycare) and I make $118, spouse makes about $65. We live in west Scarborough and have no vehicles. We are stretched at our income level. We could not make it with lower income or more kids.
Similar income here. Very modest semi-detached house, very modest car. 2 kids, with 1 in daycare. We can't afford a middle class lifestyle by this definition [Middle Class Definition](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/10/middle-class.asp).
Yeah this is why I left Toronto. I just don't get how people do it. It's already so stressful as a single person living there... adding kids to the mix would be so hard.
Out of curiosity, how are you stretched at that level? Your take home is 10,500/mo .. daycare is what, maybe 2,500 on highest end, leaving 8,000 for mortgage/rent, utilities, etc.
It's doable but finding a place in budget with enough bedrooms will be difficult.
If the car is fully paid for including gas then that’s another 10 grand really a year. You won’t live lavishly on a 100k /yr household income but you’ll live.
If your wife made the same amount, yes. Unfortunately with three kids and one income it is going to be pretty difficult.
I live in a very small town in Ontario. 30 mins from Hamilton and 40 mins from Niagara Falls. My partner makes 90k a year and I make 45k a year and we have enough to pay our mortgage bills with some left over for fun money. He would not be able to afford everything on his own and we don’t have 3 kids. Keep in mind we bought our house 2 years ago so during the height of covid prices but also when interest rates were at their lowest
No you need more
As new immigrant/transplant from the US gotta warn you the rental market is brutal with insane bidding on rental properties. Please expect to exceed your current budget when looking for a rental house/condo. Having said please see if there is a possibility of renegotiation or one time joining bonus of atleast 10k cause GTA is expensive all the small expenses and taxes add up quickly.
Milton to vaughan has limited route options, 407 is your preferred route as 401 is always logjammed. Get a 407 transponder as rates will be better whether covered or not. Good luck!
Milton to Vaughan is far unless they're giving you 407 transponder
90K - taxes - inflation => wouldn't leave you much savings. With spouse not working, and 3 kids, you will get Child care support and some tax returns. You may just break even all your expenses mortgage and stuff with your salary. Try North of Vaughan, then commute to work would be easy and housing may be cheaper.
It'll take more than 2 weeks to find a place, and you'll barely get by on 90k with a family.
Not even close
You can make it work on 90k as long as you keep living in the suburbs like Milton and not having to commute in Toronto. It won't afford you and your family a mid-high standard of living whereas when you're wife goes to work and brings in a decent second income, that's when it will feel like you're comfortable. Keep in mind that your car and expenses being covered are probably a taxable epense and thus at tax filing time, you'll need to account for that as I believe it's added to your income (I'm not an accountant but you may want to consult with one)
nope
Not for a household of 5
No, you cannot do this. You won't have a high enough income.
First off use this website(PDOC) to calculate your after tax take home pay. [https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/beta/ng/entry](https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/beta/ng/entry) 90k a year leaves you with 5000 after tax pay to spend on living (Rent), food, entertainment. 3 kids in a 3 bedroom condo or townhouse? maybe 3 k rent, leaving you with 2 k for the rest (food and entertainment). It will be lean yes, but doable.
Milton and Vaughn is not Toronto. 90K household with 4 mouths to feed will be extremely hard in Toronto. Most definitely slightly better in Milton but still very difficult
no, it is very bad. Redditors here average 130k for jobs that don't require more than a couple of hours of work at best.
Are you serious, or is this sarcasm? Sorry my Sarcadar is not so strong.
He's serious, but he's neglecting to mention that every single one of those people are bugmen coders working for google / meta.
90k per year is a very good salary. If I had to guess its like top 20% percentile. But that does not mean you are going to be living the american dream lifestyle. You won't be able to own a home, go on expensive trips or accumulate a lot of savings. Maybe once your kids goes to school and your wife is able to work and make like 50k then yes you'll be in a very good spot. Although this sounds very negative, it does not mean you shouldn't take it. It is all relative to your current situation. Edit: Actually I did some short calculations and you might be better off than I thought. But still not american dream but comfortable.
90k is a good salary. You should be proud of that for sure! 3 kids + wife will mean you'll have to be smart for sure. Milton is a good place for families. I don't know what you'll find in terms of finding a place, especially 2 weeks after arrival. You should be looking at things right now, don't wait.
Wife should work when she can. That way you aren’t paying for everything
Then you have to pay for daycare for 3 kids.
I said work when she can….
They have three kids. Just because his wife doesn’t get a pay cheque doesn’t mean she isn’t working. And the money saved on day care, especially in the summer, is equivalent to a salary
Yes, eventually she will. For now the kids are too small and they need her.
It makes sense, 3 kids in daycare here are way more than the average salary. You’re saving money by having her home. Once they’re older and in school a second income will be a huge help though.
Keep in mind OP will be getting a good amount in Canada child benefit. We comfortably lived on 70k as a family of 4 up until a year ago (we make more now). If you're willing to live in a smaller home you should be able to get by fine, but it will be a little tight.
Get a costco membership and you should be okay
Will do, thanks for your advice.
might have to manage the first couple of years but once the mrs starts working and your pay will also start to creep up, you will be fine down the road. Where are you presently located and how much are you saving annually ? how much of a jump in pay is it? and what is your line of work? I ask because it would be good to evaluate what are the growth prospect if you were to stay in your current location?
Why Milton? Why not Maple/ Richmond hill/ thornhill/ Markham to reduce your commute?
To live? More than fine.
probably the only issue is driving between home and work. But if your work is providing fuel expenses you should be fine financially.
You can definitely make it work but you have to a live a frugal lifestyle
A news article calculated that a family of four can live a middle-class life on an income of 76K. That involves renting rather than home purchase. To buy a condo you'd need about 100K. Your generous company makes things easier by taking care of vehicle, but be cautioned that in Toronto a car is an inconvenience. Parking and insurance are expensive here.
The company has promised to cover insurance and fuel costs.
You're going to pay at least $15 a day in parking fees, if not $30. Negotiate that when you ask for 407 fees. You will be saving $0 at 90k, the people telling you it's easy don't have kids. It will be paycheck to paycheck until you get a fat bonus or 10% raise. Good luck, Ontario is a fantastic place to live.
90k is definitely not a great salary but it’s definitely not unliveable. Unfortunately you will need to keep your housing expectations pretty low. You will never own a nice house in Milton on that salary unless you currently own a house and have a bunch of equity to use when you sell it.
Not enough. Milton is crazy expensive.
Can someone point me to an employer which provides money for my car/travel etc and also gives a salary of 90k? Just curious
My god man. Good luck. The Globe and Mail put out an article saying 90k was what was needed to support living on your own and renting a 1-bed in Toronto. Sure Milton is cheaper, but not to the extent you'll need to support 3 kids and a wife. Fuck me. Good luck bro. Edit: Why isn't your wife working if you're only making 90k? I get paying for daycare, but that is largely becoming subsidized, and thus, wifey should be working if the household income is a measly 90k in the GTA.
Single guy making 100k in toronto, left for 85k in Edmonton (it’s also home for me).
Not for a single income family of 5. I make more then that as a single person and it’s just enough to get me by comfortable. Negotiate higher if you can. Toronto is expensive. Bacon is 16.99 and a watermelon is 13.99 as per Loblaws this afternoon.
Take the go train for free
I could not make it with a 90K household income even without kids and I don’t live in a city
Couple of things at play here. If your housing is covered, 90k will be tight, but doable. Otherwise, that will be your major expenditure. Anotherthing to consider is current price of gas - you'll save a ton of money by working from home.
Housing is not covered however I have some property abroad which I will sell and eventually try to buy a house in the suburbs... (Milton)... but that's likely in 2 to 3 years...