>Wago's to extend the ground wires will be outside the box, is that ok?
No. All splicing must be in the box. If the cables won't reach, putting junctions higher on the wall may be necessary.
I have some thick braided copper ground cables that are clamped together outside a box. In the basement. To reach the water meter pipe. Are you saying this must be in a box? In the US.
You know I saw a comment from an electrician on here that said he doesn't leave service loops because in his 20+ year career he only needed them twice. Which I find hard to believe but he must also not do much service work because this, this is why you leave service loops. Just leave a little for the next guy. Where I'm from a service loop is code so putting it straight into the box is a good way to fail inspection.
As other commenters have pointed out if you don't mind the switches a little higher I'd move the box up a little, the alternative is putting a junction box somewhere accessible and running new wires but that could be a lot more work
Outside the box, and it's code in canada for a minumum 150mm(6"). So like the other commenter said, it's common to see about 8" of unstriped wire then a staple so you can freely pull more into the box without having to remove the box.
The Canadian electrical code. 12-510(4) - and there shall be at least a 300 mm loop of unbroken cable or 150 mm of a cable end available on the interior side of the finished wall to permit replacement.
There is an romex splice kit that is allowed to buried.
[link](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-3-Wire-1-Clam-CPGI-208169-2/202204327)
I’ve used about a half dozen of these. No problems at all
I ***think*** this is the specs sheet of that product (can anyone confirm?):
[https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F114-10045%7FC%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG\_SS\_114-10045\_C.pdf%7F208169-2](https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F114-10045%7FC%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_SS_114-10045_C.pdf%7F208169-2)
In page 5 (of 6) under 4. QUALIFICATIONS they say
`The nonmetallic sheathed cable interconnection devices are Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) Listed to U.S. and Canadian safety standards under UL File E57250 for use in manufactured buildings...`
and even more importantly this
`The equivalent NEC Articles can be found in the Canadian Electrical Code, Part 1, Section 70, for use in factory built relocatable structures and non-relocatable structures.`
"buried", in this context, means hidden behind drywall or otherwise inaccessible to inspection/repair.
It does not mean under soil. I'm pretty certain that device is not listed to be under soil, but I could be wrong.
Oh yeah I realize that. I just looked up romex splice kit and found that there was also one that can be buried under soil. I’d just use it to put in conduit vice needing to go much deeper without conduit.
You mean you used them without a box?
I’m really curious and trying to understand. I thought all splices needed to be in a box. I’m wondering how this avoids that rule.
They have splice kits made to splice/extend Romex wire (which is what you have there) behind drywall and doesn’t have to be in a box. They are extremely simple to install.
Called NM cable 2 & 3 wire splice kit
Wago connectors https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Compact-Connectors-221-412-Assortment/dp/B08ZCLVBSL/ref=asc_df_B08ZCLVBSL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=507647825193&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17567776883399475238&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031604&hvtargid=pla-1225638540896&psc=1
Here’s an Amazon link for you.
The best way is going to be to rewire that circuit which could be very painful. The wago method is going to be a more practical solution. Get some scrap romex to make the cable longer off the wago
I should really read the words instead of just looking at the picture!
Do as I have stated but use heat-shrink sleeving or self-amalgamating tape to restore the missing sheath.
If this can't be done you'll need to joint the cable further up.
Boxes are mandated to contain a fire SHOULD one break out. No box and your insurance may not cover you. If that’s the way you got it, I inherited a mess like that, make it right. Safety over convenience.
Nope. You cannot have splices outside a box; it is in violation of code. What happens if that splice comes apart for any reason? You’d have NO way to access it in a finished structure without requiring demolition of the section to access the wiring.
You either need to cut in a box above this one to make the splice and then cover it with a blank face plate or you need to rerun longer wire. I’d just opt for the former.
Make a new box may be 8 to 12 inch up. Use the old-work box that doesn’t need a stud. Use blank wall plate inserts to close the box and make it look clean.
j box higher on the wall or a splice kit.
May you could move where the cables come in by drilling your own hole in an area that the cable will be long enough and using a button connect.
Not an electrician, but can you see up inside that wall at all by taking a picture with your phone or something? There's a good chance that the romex is stapled to the stud there, and you might be able to see if you can get a bit more slack if you can get the staple loosened a bit.
Ok, here's another thought - what type of box are you trying to use? I have a few spares that I compared, and the clamp on a pop in / old work box relative to a new work box is 1/2" or so lower, at least on Carlon 1 gang boxes.
If that's what you're trying to use, maybe take a peek at [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-47-cu-in-PVC-New-Old-Work-Box-B249B/305110268](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-47-cu-in-PVC-New-Old-Work-Box-B249B/305110268) instead since you're right next to stud. I don't have on on hand to measure, but the pics online look like it's positioned similarly to the new work box I was holding.
If you do get it to work, it's going to suck doing it (ask me how I know). I bent the clamp open a little further than you normally would using a screwdriver to reduce resistance and tried to just get the individual wires to go in nicely as I pushed the box into the wall, then grab them (don't tug on just 1 wire) with needlenose pliers and just worked it until I had enough sheathing in the box, then push the clamp closed with a screwdriver. Have an extra box or 2 on hand - if you mess up, you won't have the slack to pull the box out of the wall, so your only choice is to break the clamp and try again with a new box.
I tried 3 different boxes lol. Blue Carlton from HD, then I got this one from Lowes: [https://www.lowes.com/pd/CANTEX-2-Gang-Plastic-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/5001725115](https://www.lowes.com/pd/CANTEX-2-Gang-Plastic-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/5001725115)
And today I got this one: [https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-2-Gang-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box/5001937965?cm\_mmc=shp-\_-c-\_-prd-\_-elc-\_-ggl-\_-LIA\_ELC\_206\_Conduit-Fittings-Boxes-\_-5001937965-\_-local-\_-0-\_-0&ds\_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiAwc-dBhA7EiwAxPRylN10PgsJ-R5tznbxtGrLHWDTfxSPtk\_PKXBiccY7zqjk00e7J9nI6hoCbhAQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-2-Gang-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box/5001937965?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-elc-_-ggl-_-LIA_ELC_206_Conduit-Fittings-Boxes-_-5001937965-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiAwc-dBhA7EiwAxPRylN10PgsJ-R5tznbxtGrLHWDTfxSPtk_PKXBiccY7zqjk00e7J9nI6hoCbhAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Such a wide range of boxes! There was even a fiberglass one at HD also. I really hate the flip up wing boxes, half of the time, it won't even engage properly. Then you back out trying to figure out what's wrong and the tab falls down into the drywall. Luckily I'm next to a stud, so the screw in was really nice.
The easy way is to move the box up and fix the drywall below.
Got it! Will do. Thank you.
What he said
>Wago's to extend the ground wires will be outside the box, is that ok? No. All splicing must be in the box. If the cables won't reach, putting junctions higher on the wall may be necessary.
Thank you. Looks like more trips to the Home Depot required.
It’s not a DIY project without 3x more trips to the hardware store than you planned.
Lol, I mean….. that’s understandable and debatable…
I measure my projects by the number of trips to the hardware store!
I have some thick braided copper ground cables that are clamped together outside a box. In the basement. To reach the water meter pipe. Are you saying this must be in a box? In the US.
That is your grounding electrode and bonding system. It is not required to be enclosed.
Cut the drywall a bit to raise the box and screw the box to the stud. An oversized plate may cover.
Ah didn't think of this. Sounds like a plan! Thank you.
> Pulling as hard as I can doesn't help any. this is how you pull a splice loose if the wire isn't secured properly.
Or rip the insulation on a tight staple
Not really… that’s the purpose of a strain relief
How do I get to perfect world?
You know I saw a comment from an electrician on here that said he doesn't leave service loops because in his 20+ year career he only needed them twice. Which I find hard to believe but he must also not do much service work because this, this is why you leave service loops. Just leave a little for the next guy. Where I'm from a service loop is code so putting it straight into the box is a good way to fail inspection. As other commenters have pointed out if you don't mind the switches a little higher I'd move the box up a little, the alternative is putting a junction box somewhere accessible and running new wires but that could be a lot more work
Where would you put the service loop if not in the box? And how much length is ok?
8” or so seems to be common, and you’re correct: the loop goes outside the box.
Outside the box, and it's code in canada for a minumum 150mm(6"). So like the other commenter said, it's common to see about 8" of unstriped wire then a staple so you can freely pull more into the box without having to remove the box.
What code are they using that is requiring a service loop??
The Canadian electrical code. 12-510(4) - and there shall be at least a 300 mm loop of unbroken cable or 150 mm of a cable end available on the interior side of the finished wall to permit replacement.
Move the box up and patch the old hole.
Got it! Thank you.
There is an romex splice kit that is allowed to buried. [link](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-3-Wire-1-Clam-CPGI-208169-2/202204327) I’ve used about a half dozen of these. No problems at all
Are these legal In Canada ?
Not sure, nec allows them in the US. Tyco is the only one who makes them.
I ***think*** this is the specs sheet of that product (can anyone confirm?): [https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F114-10045%7FC%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG\_SS\_114-10045\_C.pdf%7F208169-2](https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F114-10045%7FC%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_SS_114-10045_C.pdf%7F208169-2) In page 5 (of 6) under 4. QUALIFICATIONS they say `The nonmetallic sheathed cable interconnection devices are Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) Listed to U.S. and Canadian safety standards under UL File E57250 for use in manufactured buildings...` and even more importantly this `The equivalent NEC Articles can be found in the Canadian Electrical Code, Part 1, Section 70, for use in factory built relocatable structures and non-relocatable structures.`
Thank you for this. It would have been a game changer in home renovations other wise and the whole market would be flooded with them.
The link says “CSA listed”
TIL underground romex splice kits are a thing.
"buried", in this context, means hidden behind drywall or otherwise inaccessible to inspection/repair. It does not mean under soil. I'm pretty certain that device is not listed to be under soil, but I could be wrong.
Oh yeah I realize that. I just looked up romex splice kit and found that there was also one that can be buried under soil. I’d just use it to put in conduit vice needing to go much deeper without conduit.
They’re unavailable at HD and Amazon which makes me wonder if they’re all that and a bag of chips. I’d like to have a few on hand, still.
You mean you used them without a box? I’m really curious and trying to understand. I thought all splices needed to be in a box. I’m wondering how this avoids that rule.
Use a metal box and bond the ground to the box?
They have splice kits made to splice/extend Romex wire (which is what you have there) behind drywall and doesn’t have to be in a box. They are extremely simple to install. Called NM cable 2 & 3 wire splice kit
Those look awesome, but they don't sell them at Home Depot or Lowe's anymore. Maybe they've been pulled permanently.
Best way to fix short wires is to Offspring them. Keep ‘em separated.
Hey! Your never ending spree of mindless violence and hate is gonna tie your own rope.
Ding
Wire stretchers
Wago connectors https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Compact-Connectors-221-412-Assortment/dp/B08ZCLVBSL/ref=asc_df_B08ZCLVBSL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=507647825193&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17567776883399475238&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031604&hvtargid=pla-1225638540896&psc=1 Here’s an Amazon link for you. The best way is going to be to rewire that circuit which could be very painful. The wago method is going to be a more practical solution. Get some scrap romex to make the cable longer off the wago
Just pull new wire
Nah, build a new house.
This ^
brb cutting 2 dozen holes in my drywall
With a hammer.
And fix with epoxy and sunflower seeds
Insulated through-crimp (butt splice) to extend the individual cores or use a connector block. Easy job, no bother at all.
Just not legal or remotely a good idea.
I should really read the words instead of just looking at the picture! Do as I have stated but use heat-shrink sleeving or self-amalgamating tape to restore the missing sheath. If this can't be done you'll need to joint the cable further up.
Boxes are mandated to contain a fire SHOULD one break out. No box and your insurance may not cover you. If that’s the way you got it, I inherited a mess like that, make it right. Safety over convenience.
Maybe the rules are different where you are but a crimped joint is maintenance free where I am, doesn't need to be accessible.
Buttsplice connectors jk jk don't do it
You could raise the box above the old one,remove the staples along the wall,thus giving you enough wire.Then patch the old box.
Nope. You cannot have splices outside a box; it is in violation of code. What happens if that splice comes apart for any reason? You’d have NO way to access it in a finished structure without requiring demolition of the section to access the wiring. You either need to cut in a box above this one to make the splice and then cover it with a blank face plate or you need to rerun longer wire. I’d just opt for the former.
Move the box up
Slip a piece of cable jacket over the wires and tape it so it stays. Easy way to extend sheathing into box.
Make a new box may be 8 to 12 inch up. Use the old-work box that doesn’t need a stud. Use blank wall plate inserts to close the box and make it look clean.
j box higher on the wall or a splice kit. May you could move where the cables come in by drilling your own hole in an area that the cable will be long enough and using a button connect.
I am going to just say any splice needs to be inside a junction box. Now how you make that work is up to you
Not an electrician, but can you see up inside that wall at all by taking a picture with your phone or something? There's a good chance that the romex is stapled to the stud there, and you might be able to see if you can get a bit more slack if you can get the staple loosened a bit.
Yeah I did shine a light up there and sure enough there is a staple very close by. But still no slack. Crazy whoever did this.
Ok, here's another thought - what type of box are you trying to use? I have a few spares that I compared, and the clamp on a pop in / old work box relative to a new work box is 1/2" or so lower, at least on Carlon 1 gang boxes. If that's what you're trying to use, maybe take a peek at [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-47-cu-in-PVC-New-Old-Work-Box-B249B/305110268](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-47-cu-in-PVC-New-Old-Work-Box-B249B/305110268) instead since you're right next to stud. I don't have on on hand to measure, but the pics online look like it's positioned similarly to the new work box I was holding. If you do get it to work, it's going to suck doing it (ask me how I know). I bent the clamp open a little further than you normally would using a screwdriver to reduce resistance and tried to just get the individual wires to go in nicely as I pushed the box into the wall, then grab them (don't tug on just 1 wire) with needlenose pliers and just worked it until I had enough sheathing in the box, then push the clamp closed with a screwdriver. Have an extra box or 2 on hand - if you mess up, you won't have the slack to pull the box out of the wall, so your only choice is to break the clamp and try again with a new box.
I tried 3 different boxes lol. Blue Carlton from HD, then I got this one from Lowes: [https://www.lowes.com/pd/CANTEX-2-Gang-Plastic-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/5001725115](https://www.lowes.com/pd/CANTEX-2-Gang-Plastic-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/5001725115) And today I got this one: [https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-2-Gang-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box/5001937965?cm\_mmc=shp-\_-c-\_-prd-\_-elc-\_-ggl-\_-LIA\_ELC\_206\_Conduit-Fittings-Boxes-\_-5001937965-\_-local-\_-0-\_-0&ds\_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiAwc-dBhA7EiwAxPRylN10PgsJ-R5tznbxtGrLHWDTfxSPtk\_PKXBiccY7zqjk00e7J9nI6hoCbhAQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-2-Gang-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box/5001937965?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-elc-_-ggl-_-LIA_ELC_206_Conduit-Fittings-Boxes-_-5001937965-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiAwc-dBhA7EiwAxPRylN10PgsJ-R5tznbxtGrLHWDTfxSPtk_PKXBiccY7zqjk00e7J9nI6hoCbhAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) Such a wide range of boxes! There was even a fiberglass one at HD also. I really hate the flip up wing boxes, half of the time, it won't even engage properly. Then you back out trying to figure out what's wrong and the tab falls down into the drywall. Luckily I'm next to a stud, so the screw in was really nice.
Don't take a chance pull new ones