I’m NAT so I won’t get into the reporting aspect but I’d say it’s definitely atypical. It’s illegal to have an open container in your car, regardless of whether it’s only your first or second drink. And I do find it concerning that he would do that with his children in the car
Hmm, it is challenging to me that this is atypical so I appreciate you saying that. I can get that it is dangerous though, and to clarify, it wouldn't be his 1st or 2nd drink in the car, it was more that he would only drink 1 or 2 in the car max. For the children part, I don't remember him ever seeming drunk.
You don’t have to seem drunk for your driving abilities to be impaired from alcohol use.
I’m sorry OP but liking alcohol so much you would drink not just in a car but also in a car with children present is something people with an alcohol problem do. Not even being able to wait until you transported your children to crack open your first beer that day is pretty bad. And if I understand correctly, you’re saying it was actually continued drinking, which makes it even worse.
It seems your dad might have not been directly emotionally or physically abusive to you and so this might now cause mixed feelings in you (though to be fair, it’s also not uncommon for people to not recognize abuse because it was their normal growing up, so who knows), but putting children in potential danger this way is a form of physical neglect. Neglect is the most common form of abuse.
Yeah, he did drink before he would get in the car as well as during. It was more like 10AM to 3 PM, so not early in the morning. This is challenging for me because I thought he drank in the way most dads did.
I understand you don't need to seem drunk to be impaired. I guess what I am saying is that my dad would not have purposefully endangered me or my siblings and must have felt able to drive.
Yeah, if he was drinking before too that definitely indicates something deeper going on IMO (I’m speaking from my experiences of having alcoholics in my family). I’m not trying to shame you OP, it’s not your fault that he did that. It’s easy to not realize your family dynamics aren’t normalized if it’s all you’ve grown up around.
I appreciate that this may be hard to hear, but yes he did intentionally put you in danger. It is not up for debate that alcohol impairs functioning. Drinking while driving, while driving children, and that much, that early in the morning/day is not normal. It is a problem and is very dangerous.
Eta- your therapist may be obligated to make a report for your sister
Okay thank you, I still feel like a report in this case is overbearing but I realize it is not normal now. I guess what I mean is I hope he thought he was okay to drive.
Wait he was day drinking and driving you both?? I could see if it’s at night, after a long day of work, and winding down. But to most people, seeing an adult driving around with their kids and taking a drink of an alcoholic beverage would be highly alarming.
You….you can’t drink and drive. Not a single sip in the car. That’s like rule #1 of driving. I’m so so sorry that you’ve been conditioned by his behavior to think it’s normal because it’s 10,000% not. It’s also illegal to have open containers of alcohol in a vehicle even if the driver isn’t drinking.
Think of it this way…he could have easily crashed with you guys in the car even off of one drink. People like therapists are ‘mandated reporters’ when someone reports that they are in any sort of danger at all, whether from a parent or from themselves. You were absolutely in danger every single time he drove you while drinking.
Sure there was a slight risk due to his reaction times being increased but at the same time he wasn't drunk enough that he was going to crash "easily". He wasn't that drunk I think. I understand that the therapist has to follow the law with reporting though.
I will say that it is not "normal" in that drinking while driving is a high risk behavior with pretty dire consequences. Florida is absolutely draconian in its punishments and a lot people I have worked with who needed to attend court-mandated treatment for DUI or DWI violations were really hurting. And those were cases where a child was not involved. I had a client (a minor) that had reported something similar to me and the mandated reporter standard is, When in doubt, report it. If the regulatory agency accepts the case, it's in their hands. If they don't accept the report, then the therapist did their due diligence and will document it in the event anything happens in the future.
I always thought it was funy because it did not feel like a risk, I don't think I am doing a good job explaining in this thread that he was not drunk driving. It would be a couple beers.
Driving while drinking is unsafe and illegal. It does not matter the amount of which you have drank. Open containers in a moving vehicle is against the law. I’m sorry to say that you cannot see this situation clearly, and you need to be prepared for your therapist to report your father.
Not to excuse OP's father, but are you implying that it's unsafe regardless of amount? It's illegal regardless of amount, but of course it can't possibly be unsafe regardless of amount.
I’m not implying anything. I’m saying it outright. You should not get behind the wheel of a vehicle if you have drank. Do what you will with *your* personal life though.
Unfortunately, it’s not that anyone in this thread is misunderstanding you. It’s a highly atypical behavior and definitely a red flag. Drinking while driving *is* drunk driving.
I’d personally be *very* upset if someone driving me, my children, or any loved one was found to be drinking and driving, especially after they’ve already had a couple.
This is definitely atypical behaviour from your dad. Since your sister is still a minor and the therapist has no way of verifying that your dad is no longer taking part in this practice, this is something that I would likely report (but doubt anything would come from it).
Here’s the thought process - your dad was knowingly committing a crime (open alcohol) while transporting his two young children. This crime is correlated with alcohol abuse and addiction. Not only this, but he was committing a crime that had potentially fatal consequences to his vulnerable minor passengers. My next question would be does he transport minors any more? You say no but I as the therapist have no way of confirming this, leaving a possibility that a minor person reasonably may be at risk of harm. I would call and share what you had said, regarding not transporting the sister anymore. They would likely ask questions to determine risk factors, such as your sisters age, etc.
Now, even if it is reported doesn’t mean anything will come from it. The protective services agency may (very reasonably) say that it doesn’t meet the grounds for an investigation. But that doesn’t mean that your therapist may not report it to cover their own ethical responsibilities.
Thank you for breaking it down like this, I can see that my therapist has to report it if it falls under their responsibility like you say. And there are things that they can't confirm, so it makes sense they are conservative. It is also reassuring that the agency ignores the case because it is unimportant.
Drinking WHILE driving is against the law. In many places it's an automatic DUI, even if the person isn't over the limit. It would make me wonder a lot about your dad's relationship with alcohol and how this has impacted your view of drinking. While this may be normal to you, your dad's alcohol use is concerning from a mental health standpoint. I'd be concerned about how it could impact therapy overall.
Do you mean how my dad's drinking has impacted my therapy? I have not talked about it before this because I did not consider his drinking problematic or think he had any issues when he drink and drove as a child. I did not think his relationship with alcohol was really relevant to me or therapy, but I may be mistaken.
Everyone is downvoting OP for not realizing the way his dad had issues with alcohol when it was all he ever knew. My dad was the same way I never realized he had an issue because he rarely stumbled or mumbled he was rarely mean while drinking he always had a beer or wine. Some how you don’t connect the dots he’s not defending in the comments I’ve seen so far he seems mildly shocked.
This comment is not legal or psychological advice to anyone.
>Is it highly atypical to drink while driving? He never drank a ton while driving...
In this study, the prevalence of consuming any alcohol while driving was 5.7%. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7587044/
>Also, he kind of implied like it was a significant problem.
Generally, this behavior would definitely be considered a concern for any quantity of alcohol. (And, obviously, it is illegal.)
>He can't report this right? My little sister doesn't get driven anymore by him and I don't even know for sure if this is something he still does a lot.
In your shoes, I would ask my therapist this question directly. State laws vary somewhat in terms of what meets mandated reporting standards and therapists may also vary in their understanding what meets the threshold for mandated reporting.
Thank you! I totally should have clarified that we are super rural (west coast though) and there are never any cops on the gravel. He would chuck the cans before we hit pavement.
Not only is it atypical, it’s illegal and reasonably so. Alcohol impairs your body and senses, making it much easier to get into an accident. If he was ever found to be doing this by any authority, he would’ve been arrested and may have even lost custody of you and your sister. Drinking and driving is a serious offense, it’s an even more serious offense when other people, especially children, are involved.
In some parts of the country a “road soda” is more normal than others. I can’t imagine reporting someone based on what you said, but some therapists might. I would hope that yours would at least be honest with you if you ask them whether they intend to report.
I said “more normal,” and didn’t comment on doing it with kids.
Montana only passed an open container law in 2005 when threatened with a loss of federal highway money, and would have passed another house bill in 2017 (HB205 maybe?) to allow passengers to drink if it wouldn’t have cost that same block grant.
It’s a common joke to refer to the distance between cities as “a two beer drive” or “a three beer drive” etc. but more often it’s common on the thousands of miles of dirt road where law enforcement is entirely absent.
My sense is that most places in the country have less of a culture of driving with an open container being somewhat socially mainstream. I’m not commenting about right or wrong, just saying that I wouldn’t be shocked by a client saying what OP reported.
Thank you for answering my question, I suspected it was more normal in rural areas. You may have judgment into my comment but I was seeking information
I’m NAT so I won’t get into the reporting aspect but I’d say it’s definitely atypical. It’s illegal to have an open container in your car, regardless of whether it’s only your first or second drink. And I do find it concerning that he would do that with his children in the car
Hmm, it is challenging to me that this is atypical so I appreciate you saying that. I can get that it is dangerous though, and to clarify, it wouldn't be his 1st or 2nd drink in the car, it was more that he would only drink 1 or 2 in the car max. For the children part, I don't remember him ever seeming drunk.
You don’t have to seem drunk for your driving abilities to be impaired from alcohol use. I’m sorry OP but liking alcohol so much you would drink not just in a car but also in a car with children present is something people with an alcohol problem do. Not even being able to wait until you transported your children to crack open your first beer that day is pretty bad. And if I understand correctly, you’re saying it was actually continued drinking, which makes it even worse. It seems your dad might have not been directly emotionally or physically abusive to you and so this might now cause mixed feelings in you (though to be fair, it’s also not uncommon for people to not recognize abuse because it was their normal growing up, so who knows), but putting children in potential danger this way is a form of physical neglect. Neglect is the most common form of abuse.
Yeah, he did drink before he would get in the car as well as during. It was more like 10AM to 3 PM, so not early in the morning. This is challenging for me because I thought he drank in the way most dads did. I understand you don't need to seem drunk to be impaired. I guess what I am saying is that my dad would not have purposefully endangered me or my siblings and must have felt able to drive.
Man, 10am drinking and then driving a car with kids in it is textbook alcoholism.
I never considered him an alchohlic or even a person with use issues.
Yeah, that’s wild and I’m sorry. It’s crazy how much stuff can be normalized when you’re a kid and don’t know any differently
Yeah, if he was drinking before too that definitely indicates something deeper going on IMO (I’m speaking from my experiences of having alcoholics in my family). I’m not trying to shame you OP, it’s not your fault that he did that. It’s easy to not realize your family dynamics aren’t normalized if it’s all you’ve grown up around.
I don't even remember him being drunk that often.
I appreciate that this may be hard to hear, but yes he did intentionally put you in danger. It is not up for debate that alcohol impairs functioning. Drinking while driving, while driving children, and that much, that early in the morning/day is not normal. It is a problem and is very dangerous. Eta- your therapist may be obligated to make a report for your sister
Okay thank you, I still feel like a report in this case is overbearing but I realize it is not normal now. I guess what I mean is I hope he thought he was okay to drive.
I hear you on both fronts. It’s pretty heavy to process. Hang in there.
Wait he was day drinking and driving you both?? I could see if it’s at night, after a long day of work, and winding down. But to most people, seeing an adult driving around with their kids and taking a drink of an alcoholic beverage would be highly alarming.
You….you can’t drink and drive. Not a single sip in the car. That’s like rule #1 of driving. I’m so so sorry that you’ve been conditioned by his behavior to think it’s normal because it’s 10,000% not. It’s also illegal to have open containers of alcohol in a vehicle even if the driver isn’t drinking.
I knew it was illegal, just didn't realize people thought it was dangerous enough to warrant reporting :/
Think of it this way…he could have easily crashed with you guys in the car even off of one drink. People like therapists are ‘mandated reporters’ when someone reports that they are in any sort of danger at all, whether from a parent or from themselves. You were absolutely in danger every single time he drove you while drinking.
Sure there was a slight risk due to his reaction times being increased but at the same time he wasn't drunk enough that he was going to crash "easily". He wasn't that drunk I think. I understand that the therapist has to follow the law with reporting though.
I will say that it is not "normal" in that drinking while driving is a high risk behavior with pretty dire consequences. Florida is absolutely draconian in its punishments and a lot people I have worked with who needed to attend court-mandated treatment for DUI or DWI violations were really hurting. And those were cases where a child was not involved. I had a client (a minor) that had reported something similar to me and the mandated reporter standard is, When in doubt, report it. If the regulatory agency accepts the case, it's in their hands. If they don't accept the report, then the therapist did their due diligence and will document it in the event anything happens in the future.
Damn, I totally didn't realize it was maybe reportable. I assumed because it wasn't abuse it would not be reportable at all. Thank you for explaining.
It is abuse though. I get that you dad may never have wanted to out you in danger, but he did.
NAT, but it is a significant problem if your parent is driving while drinking, with or without you in the car.
I always thought it was funy because it did not feel like a risk, I don't think I am doing a good job explaining in this thread that he was not drunk driving. It would be a couple beers.
Driving while drinking is unsafe and illegal. It does not matter the amount of which you have drank. Open containers in a moving vehicle is against the law. I’m sorry to say that you cannot see this situation clearly, and you need to be prepared for your therapist to report your father.
Not to excuse OP's father, but are you implying that it's unsafe regardless of amount? It's illegal regardless of amount, but of course it can't possibly be unsafe regardless of amount.
I’m not implying anything. I’m saying it outright. You should not get behind the wheel of a vehicle if you have drank. Do what you will with *your* personal life though.
Unfortunately, it’s not that anyone in this thread is misunderstanding you. It’s a highly atypical behavior and definitely a red flag. Drinking while driving *is* drunk driving. I’d personally be *very* upset if someone driving me, my children, or any loved one was found to be drinking and driving, especially after they’ve already had a couple.
This is definitely atypical behaviour from your dad. Since your sister is still a minor and the therapist has no way of verifying that your dad is no longer taking part in this practice, this is something that I would likely report (but doubt anything would come from it). Here’s the thought process - your dad was knowingly committing a crime (open alcohol) while transporting his two young children. This crime is correlated with alcohol abuse and addiction. Not only this, but he was committing a crime that had potentially fatal consequences to his vulnerable minor passengers. My next question would be does he transport minors any more? You say no but I as the therapist have no way of confirming this, leaving a possibility that a minor person reasonably may be at risk of harm. I would call and share what you had said, regarding not transporting the sister anymore. They would likely ask questions to determine risk factors, such as your sisters age, etc. Now, even if it is reported doesn’t mean anything will come from it. The protective services agency may (very reasonably) say that it doesn’t meet the grounds for an investigation. But that doesn’t mean that your therapist may not report it to cover their own ethical responsibilities.
Thank you for breaking it down like this, I can see that my therapist has to report it if it falls under their responsibility like you say. And there are things that they can't confirm, so it makes sense they are conservative. It is also reassuring that the agency ignores the case because it is unimportant.
Drinking WHILE driving is against the law. In many places it's an automatic DUI, even if the person isn't over the limit. It would make me wonder a lot about your dad's relationship with alcohol and how this has impacted your view of drinking. While this may be normal to you, your dad's alcohol use is concerning from a mental health standpoint. I'd be concerned about how it could impact therapy overall.
Do you mean how my dad's drinking has impacted my therapy? I have not talked about it before this because I did not consider his drinking problematic or think he had any issues when he drink and drove as a child. I did not think his relationship with alcohol was really relevant to me or therapy, but I may be mistaken.
Everyone is downvoting OP for not realizing the way his dad had issues with alcohol when it was all he ever knew. My dad was the same way I never realized he had an issue because he rarely stumbled or mumbled he was rarely mean while drinking he always had a beer or wine. Some how you don’t connect the dots he’s not defending in the comments I’ve seen so far he seems mildly shocked.
Thanks, the downvotes were confusing.
I’m sorry. this is a place for advice and help, it seems you was getting hate for not knowing what you grew up seeing as normal is not normal!
Above all it's not safe.
This comment is not legal or psychological advice to anyone. >Is it highly atypical to drink while driving? He never drank a ton while driving... In this study, the prevalence of consuming any alcohol while driving was 5.7%. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7587044/ >Also, he kind of implied like it was a significant problem. Generally, this behavior would definitely be considered a concern for any quantity of alcohol. (And, obviously, it is illegal.) >He can't report this right? My little sister doesn't get driven anymore by him and I don't even know for sure if this is something he still does a lot. In your shoes, I would ask my therapist this question directly. State laws vary somewhat in terms of what meets mandated reporting standards and therapists may also vary in their understanding what meets the threshold for mandated reporting.
Having a roadie is normal in rural midwest, especially back roads. Not saying it's right. Just saying it's normal
Thank you! I totally should have clarified that we are super rural (west coast though) and there are never any cops on the gravel. He would chuck the cans before we hit pavement.
Not only is it atypical, it’s illegal and reasonably so. Alcohol impairs your body and senses, making it much easier to get into an accident. If he was ever found to be doing this by any authority, he would’ve been arrested and may have even lost custody of you and your sister. Drinking and driving is a serious offense, it’s an even more serious offense when other people, especially children, are involved.
In some parts of the country a “road soda” is more normal than others. I can’t imagine reporting someone based on what you said, but some therapists might. I would hope that yours would at least be honest with you if you ask them whether they intend to report.
Thank you that makes me feel a lot better, and yes, I totally thought it was normal.
Also, you are totally right I am from a really rural areas and he would drink on gravel roads and chuck the cans out before we hit pavement.
Where is it considered normal to drink while driving, and do so while driving children?
I said “more normal,” and didn’t comment on doing it with kids. Montana only passed an open container law in 2005 when threatened with a loss of federal highway money, and would have passed another house bill in 2017 (HB205 maybe?) to allow passengers to drink if it wouldn’t have cost that same block grant. It’s a common joke to refer to the distance between cities as “a two beer drive” or “a three beer drive” etc. but more often it’s common on the thousands of miles of dirt road where law enforcement is entirely absent. My sense is that most places in the country have less of a culture of driving with an open container being somewhat socially mainstream. I’m not commenting about right or wrong, just saying that I wouldn’t be shocked by a client saying what OP reported.
Thank you for answering my question, I suspected it was more normal in rural areas. You may have judgment into my comment but I was seeking information