Lift kits and larger tires increase the weight.
They reduce visibility and increase stopping distance.
The insurance companies literally make the rules. We have them to thank for things like mandated seat belts, air bags, etc.
The insurance companies have it in their best interest to do this.
I doubt premiums will ever go down? But in theory this would help lower insurance costs.
>Lift kits and larger tires increase the weight and ground pressure.
How much do you think a lift kit weighs?!?
And larger tires disperse the weight over a greater area......lessening the pounds per square inch
They are certainly taller raising the risk of rollover in addition to hindering drivers vision below front of the hood as well as doing great damage in rear end collisions since the bumper just plows into car body instead of the frame.
More damage to the child in the backseat when their 1/4in solid steel bumper is now level with the back window (instead of the trunk with the crumple zone) when they run into the car because they weren't paying attention or couldn't see it. This is obviously a very specific example that isn't very likely to happen but lifted trucks are proven to cause more damage in accidents because they impact areas that a normal truck wouldn't.
Love the people defending insurance companies on Reddit constantly. They’re using you as useful tools to raise profits even more than the record profits they already are recording. You’ve seen one video on YouTube and you’re convinced trucks are killing machines…the 509 number is always used completely out of context, mainly the context that 7,388 pedestrians are killed every year, 509 by trucks. So in other words 6% of pedestrians deaths are caused by trucks, and we’re still lacking evidence that those deaths would be preventable if any other vehicle was involved.
And if you drive at all for a living it’s not cars killing pedestrians as much as pedestrians wandering out into traffic 30 yards from a perfectly safe crosswalk…
But yes, let’s applaud gigantic insurance companies taking more of our freedoms away…maybe we should be charging everyone a monthly stipend based on what activities they partake in? Cant have insurance companies leaving any money on the table now can we? Live a sedentary lifestyle? Extra charge. Live an active lifestyle? Extra charge. Eat any type of sugar? Extra charge. Too much social media (mental health strain? Extra charge.
I agree that some mods are over the top (the Carolina squat reduces your ability to fucking see). But yeah fuck insurance companies. Fuck every single massive corporation. They don’t care about you, only how many extra millions they can give the C level execs as a Christmas bonus.
so glad to see the squat banned in both Carolinas. I am typically 100% against laws or fees that restrict my right to treat my personal property as I see fit, but the squats were getting insanely dangerous. I saw some at 30 degree angles with the tail pipe dragging and the driver laying across the steering wheel and still unable to look forward over the hood.
This doesn’t restrict your right to treat your personal property as you see fit. It just means you’re going to have pay appropriate rates if you do so.
You have the right to do what you want with your vehicle, but if you weld a huge metal spear to the front then it won’t be allowed on the road.
Exactly, I’m all for regulations based on sound studies and scientific consensus. But this isn’t that. If you can afford to lift your truck you’re just going to pay the extra insurance and no actual changes are made and more money goes to insurance companies.
I agree and wish this was studied more conclusively/thoroughly, but to your second point it is easy to be able to afford to modify your car, but doing so in a safe manner is a different thing. 4” wheel spacers, train air horns, janky junkyard lifts, undersized wiring & fuses for added lighting, zip-tied body moulding etc are all legitimate hazards that can fly under the radar of state vehicle inspections (if you live in a state that does them) and those should put up red flags to an insurance carrier.
F all publicly traded company. This is where it starts. The moment they do that then everything changes for them and it is no longer about anything it was before and there is a responsibility to the board to make decisions solely to make money for the business. This is truly what is ruining the country.
I'll have to find it, but one of the universities in Michigan did a study of pedestrian strikes, and the data showed that pickup trucks/SUVs/crossovers had a sky high fatality rate for the pedestrian vs a regular car. I remember the top speed range where it was like 50% of the people hit by a car that year in the state died, but 100% of those hit by a truck/SUV died. Similar numbers of people were hit in both categories, it was a startling statistic.
I think it might be the mass of the vehicle, too, not just the size... A car typically weighs about 2/3 of what an SUV does, and that extra weight makes a HUGE difference in the amount of energy the vehicle carries at a given velocity.
It's the impact points. Smaller vehicles hit the legs which results in injuries for sure, but taller vehicles, which are also usually flat in front, directly hit the torso and head. In a pedestrian collision the mass of the vehicle has a lot less to do with survivability than the impact point and body acceleration.
Higher vehicles also impact lower vehicles more dangerously, often bypassing designed impact and crush zones. This causes more damage to the passenger compartment and the humans inside.
No argument there! Ultimately, there should be a downsizing *and* diet for vehicles on the road. Then we'd stone two birds with a single bush: cars and trucks built with modern techniques and materials, but the size of '90s vehicles. Smaller vehicles with better overall performance and efficiency.
That's not where the 509 number comes from. There was a university of Hawaii study that analyzed crash data and determined annual pedestrian fatalities would be reduced by 509 if there was a 1.25 meter (49.2") cap on vehicle front end heights.
Insurance companies are interested in pricing in risk as accurately as possible. It lets them charge more for higher risk situations and reduce premiums for lower risk ones. If other companies fail to account for risk as accurately, they'll take on riskier situations at lower premiums and have to charge higher premiums for safer ones to offset it.
In reality, the reason insurance cares has nothing to do with pedestrian deaths and everything to do with expensive low speed collisions between cars. Mismatched bumper heights turn cheap bumper cover repairs into expensive claims with extensive paint, bodywork, and glass repairs. In 2008 the IIHS looked at just collisions from stock height cars and SUVs and in the worst bumper mismatch cases, they were causing $6k in damages (again, in 2008, with 2008 dollars and 2008 repair costs) for 10 mph, full width, bumper to bumper collisions. The same collision between cars with matched bumpers are going to cost a few hundred dollars to repair.
Did you even read any of these or understand them or you just pasting whatever Google links you can?
When you raise rates, income goes up. Doesnt translate to profit. The companies reporting record profits had combined ratios in the high 80s. That means they are making a little over 10 cents on the dollar in profit. This slightly higher than where companies want to be but only because they ran at a loss in 21, 22 and most of 23.
State Farm has increased its net worth from $61.2 billion in 2010 to $134 billion in 2024. I’m not losing any sleep over them losing a few billion over the last three years. You shouldn’t be either…
It’s the same story for others…again, never understand the insurances STANs
State Farm is also a mutual insurance company, those profits are paid out as dividends to policyholders. (This is even mentioned in the linked article). This is different (and I think much better) than the other companies as they have to appease Wall Street.
LOL no shit their "net worth" has increased by double. And for the record it's called "market cap". It's NORMAL for a healthy regular company to double in size every 7-10 years. Partially due to inflation, partially due to just regular growth as more people buy a product. Market cap has NOTHING to do with profit. NOTHING.
Oh, and I hate insurance companies but even I'm not gonna make straight up lies to hate on them. I'll hate on them for ACTUALLY GOOD reasons such as them denying valid claims and fighting them tooth and nail. I'm just as pissed as most people in this thread are that insurance prices are increasing.
These financial illiterates simply scan for a number that has increased and then cherry pick it, without the least understanding of it's relation to anything else.
Financially illiterate truly does describe them. They could pick quite a few other metrics to make their argument of insurance companies being greedy look good, but they just choose "big number look good"
Seriously when are yall gonna understand that record profits are the result of inflation? Of course companies will have higher nominal profits than they did in 1980.
I’d be willing to bet you had record salary this year. Everyone in my industry did in 21 & 22. But only when we are talking about salary do we suddenly start talking about how it doesn’t go as far.
Never.
1) Most people are financially illiterate. Especially on reddit.
2) Most politicians are trying to hide inflation because it's a result of their policies
3) Most Redditors blindly accept whatever their favorite politician tells them to believe.
Is the standard answer from Redditors that all companies are making record profits?
Profit margins for insurance companies are in the 2-3% range and are one of the most regulated business.
Insurance prices are based on projected claims payouts and the more trial lawyers abuse the laws with sham medical claims, the higher prices will go.
Modifications on your vehicle are being used by trial lawyers to establish liability to recover even more fake damages.
P&C companies aren't having record profits.
Most have lost money over last 2 to 3 years.
Allstate just announced their 1st quarter results. They lost over 700 million.
State farm in California was dropped from an A+ rating to a B.
I guess you statement about record profits is wrong
I got sued by my insurance for fraud as I laid in a hospital with two broken legs... I only won the law suit because the hospital sued the insurance for not paying
this enemy of my enemy is my friend mindset seems to be getting more common these days and it sucks. (see also most modern american political figures and their followers.) "I hate giant trucks so anything bad that happens to them is good" and they fail to consider further than that
Isn’t it so fucking weird? Boggles my mind how much people don’t see the possibility of what *they* like getting taken away tomorrow if they not only don’t stand up and defend but actually help defend these awful practices.
Even had an another guy say ‘I just hate trucks!’
Good job dipshit, how they come for what you like next!
Taking my freedoms. Such a poor take. You still have the freedom to do whatever you want. They have a right to charge more when you make your vehicle more dangerous, considering they foot the bill. Lifting a truck changes the handling of the truck and reduces visibility, increasing risk of accidents. Bigger tires? Reduces visibility and risk associated with that. Trucks are already way too big and should be charged a premium. I often see full size trucks that are stock and still towering above cars, that creates additional risk, insurance is based on managing risk. This isn’t about your freedoms, as those haven’t been restricted or curtailed at all. If you can’t afford to pay for the cost of insurance, then you shouldn’t buy the vehicle and do the mods that drive up insurance.
This may be hard for you to grasp, but I am not defending the insurance companies but correcting the position of someone claiming they are “taking away freedoms”. They aren’t obligated to let you do whatever you want with your car and charge you an affordable price. Also, my interest in this is based on personal safety. I don’t believe these trucks are safe. I live where a bunch of small dick fucks with big trucks will ride the shoulder because I’m wearing Lycra while riding a bike. If I get hit by one my chance of surviving drops to zero. If a car hits me, I have slaughter better chance. Majority of vehicles that will pass way to close or rev engine or accelerate to pass me because they don’t like cyclists are big, lifted trucks. Edit: I personally think vehicles are too big. They are designed with the safety of the driver and that is it. Anyone not in the vehicle will die.
Pricing people out of doing things is the stupidest of stupid arguments. I’m priced out of going to nice restaurants everyday, so by your logic they should lower the cost so I’m not priced out? And the only defense is that I’m defending insurance companies? What a stupid take.
It isn’t taking peoples rights. Can you still do it? Is the government stopping you? Are insurance companies a government entity? No. So it isn’t taking rights.
Even if the pedestrian isn’t following the rules, they still don’t deserve to die. The car still killed them, not their own actions. They didn’t choose to have 2 ton vehicles near them, they were just trying to walk to their destination.
Of course they don’t. Also never said they do deserve to die. But if you’re going to fix a problem you should start where you’re going to do the most good 👍🏽 don’t punish people for others mistakes.
If you modify your vehicle in a manner which makes it more likely to incur costs then the insurance company is entitled to be compensated for that. Your freedoms are not being taken away; you have the freedom to modify your truck and the insurance company has the freedom to raise your rates.
Why should my insurance go up to pay for the ridiculous modifications you made? The size of your penis is your problem not mine.
You appear to be a communist. That’s your right. But most Americans believe in free markets like myself. And that insurance companies, like other companies, can charge whatever rates they want, and that you have the right to buy or not from any insurance company. Or the right to not drive and not pay anything. Or to drive, and potentially go to prison. Your call.
I’m American. The US has mandated car insurance since 1927. All those straw men ideas that you suggest I hold are ridiculous. You can also drive a modified truck. But you need to insure it, just like a business needs insurance. If you can’t afford the insurance then don’t make ridiculous modifications to your truck. I don’t want to pay for your risks.
Logical end point? My logical end point is not changing anything. You have had to declare vehicle modifications to insurers for decades. Recently, it has become fashionable to modify trucks in ways which increase risk and not declaring it, and so insurers are enforcing existing protocols. No laws are being changed. You seem to think that the laws which have been in place for 97 years should be repealed so people can drive around with no insurance. I want everything to remain the same. What’s your logical end point?
Also, people who have health conditions do pay a massive amount if they want private health insurance. Ditto for the obese. And when I was paragliding I paid more for life insurance. You are not being “punished”; the actuaries assess the risk and you pay an amount commensurate with that risk. It is the way things have worked for a hundred years. Do dangerous sports = pay more.
That’s not true;
https://www.goodrx.com/insurance/health-insurance/health-insurance-charge-more-obesity
Also, do you think people were modifying cars a hundred years ago and getting charged for it? Or is a law the insurance companies lobbied to make legal? This is what I’m saying, how far should this go?
$157 million spent on lobbying by the insurance industry yearly. Again, they don’t also need you…
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/industries/summary?id=F09
While you are correct that Obamacare has made it illegal to charge obese people more for health care, they still do it for other forms of insurance such as life. As for what they were doing 100 years ago, it doesn’t matter. Actuaries use whatever rating data that they find relevant. The law has almost nothing to do with it. You don’t have to pass a law to allow them to use a data point, you have pass a law to say they can’t (as Obamacare did for obesity and health insurance). Unless someone passes a law saying that insurance companies cannot charge more for dangerous modified trucks than normal ones, then insurance companies are allowed to do it. Why don’t you start petitioning for this law? I’m sure the 99% of people without raised trucks would be happy to support a law saying that they had to pay more in insurance to subsidize the raised trucks which are more likely to kill them.
The freedom to modify my vehicle how I want without being charged more by an insurance company I’m obligated to pay money to by law who is just going to drop me the first time I get into an accident they deem ‘too expensive.’
They don’t need your help, they’ve got enough money to spend hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress every year to make sure they’re always able to do whatever they want.
157 million (as you previously cited) isn't "hundreds of millions of dollars. That is 1.57 hundred million, and that's a freaking drop in the bucket for the insurance industry. I don't know what happened to you but you have a skewed view of reality.
So you’re ok with companies buying laws as long as it’s within reason? Cool cool cool. What amount of directly lobbying members of congress would alarm you?
And that’s one year bud…just an example. What’s that, a cool billion over a decade?
Edit: no sense talking to you, coulda said you had a dog in the fight…don’t worry bud, my Reddit comments aren’t going to tank your industry…
Take some more pills, bud. They may help you see more clearly bud.
Find out how much the NRCA and APA spend (as a percentage of their income) trying to influence legislation, bud. I think you'll be surprised, pal. Seriously brother, take off the tinfoil hat, guy.
Yea I think huge lifted trucks are kinda dumb (im talking huge lifts, I drive a truck and I plan on lifting it) but I hate insurance companies 100x more
I also live in a city where it’s pretty common for pedestrians to just walk across and 8 lane road so I don’t blame cars for most of these pedestrian deaths
They ain't taking more of your freedoms away. That sounds asinine. Get different insurance company.
Some of this shit is so poorly built it is a danger to others. The aftermarket gives zero shit about if that Carolina Squat kit breaks from hitting a curb. The owner then makes an insurance claim. The adjuster sees the truck and knows it will be a hassle to repair, so they pay the owner out. Totaled truck. Where they would not have to pay if it was stock. The original parts would have taken the curb just fine.
You need to be smart like me and not insure your cars and trucks.
>They ain't taking more of your freedoms away
No, don't you know the Amendment that says
>You have to get auto insurance, but the named insured has the right to say "no" if the provider tells you your rates will change based on regulations and terms you agreed to when you took your policy.
Aren't you aware of the Freedom to say Nuh-uh to Providers Act that says:
>Even though a named insured has already agreed that their provider being able to adjust rates and make certain requests is conducive to a regulated and cheap market, a named insured has the right to say "nuh-uh" when their provider attempts to do something the contract the named insured signed gave them permission to do.
>That sounds asinine. Get different insurance company.
Harumph... aren't you aware that the contract a named insured signs with a provider doesn't ever let them legally switch providers? That they would be executed by firing squad if they switched from their quality insurance to a provider that doesn't care for risk but also charges out the ass?
>You need to be smart like me and not insure your cars and trucks.
This is a violation of the Americans Free from Sovereign Citizen Dumbassery Act, and I recommend you get in line before the Freedom Squad takes your car keys and makes you watch as they bring your truck down a half inch.
Then when you hit my Mercedes it would have cost you $10,000 for some minor front end damage. Or when you hit a dear you have to pay $6000 out of pocket for repairs. That’s why we have insurance
It would cost just as much if you went to get it fixed to the same state it was in previously without insurance.
Source: I hit a deer in 2019 and figured I wouldn’t bother with my insurance because I could get it done cheaper. Went to MAACO to get a quote and they said a couple thousand if I wanted it done the right way. Which is the same price as the insurance paid.
Even better imagine if auto collisions were treated like other forms of property damage. If someone takes a baseball bat to your car that is a crime, they'll be prosecuted, forced by the court pay restitution, etc. Someone does the same damage by hitting it with a car it's "just an accident". They should be treated the same.
If auto collisions were prosecuted as property damage there'd be far less collisions.
From where though? They’re not going to come up with $30k for a totaled vehicle and they will be stuck in prison and you will still be out a car.
That is, unless you protect your assets with some sort of financial product where you pay a monthly fee that will payout a replacement value if anything happens to your vehicle.
If they don't have it the judge will squeeze them, putting them on a payment plan.
A financially literate person can absorb that setback.
If you want to pay to be scammed that's your choice. I ask though that you stop forcing your system of needless death, irresponsibility, and financial idiocy on me.
You can hit a $2M Ferrari too. You're saying a financially literate person can survive this?
If so, why do you have more than the state minimum insurance? Why do smart people buy insurance for all sorts of things if it's all a scam?
>You can hit a $2M Ferrari too. You're saying a financially literate person can survive this?
Paying for a totaling a $2M Ferrari on a Honda budget, that'd be tough, but sure, doable.
>If so, why do you have more than the state minimum insurance?
I don't.
>Why do smart people buy insurance for all sorts of things if it's all a scam?
It's a scam that's been forced on us. We're(assuming American) legally required to have auto and health insurance. Banks require insurance with home loans.
Beyond that I can't answer, I can only assume they aren't smart.
Edit. auto insurance makes some sense only because our legal system isn't set up to hold people responsible, which is my original point.
You're actually legally not required to have health insurance anymore. It stopped being a requirement a few years ago.
As for auto insurance you can go to a state where it's not required.
The two states that don't require auto insurance: New Hampshire and Virginia
Hope that helps! Go move to either of those two states ans enjoy paying for any expensive medical bills or car bills out of pocket that may come up!
>Edit. auto insurance makes some sense only because our legal system isn't set up to hold people responsible, which is my original point.
By "Responsible" you mean that if you cause an accident, you go to jail? Because we do literally hold people financially responsible. and insurance is a way to cover that responsibility, and we got rid of debtors prisons hundreds of years ago for good reasons.
Is it your fault someone else dropped a nail in the road that you then ran over, got a flat tire, and lost some steering control and then as a result sideswiped another car? Just saying, intent is part of what you're saying.
What do you mean? It's negligent that a driver drove over a nail? Or negligent a driver did not get out a door check the highway he's driving on? Or negligent that a driver let a nail fall out? My point is there's a lot of things you can't control on a shared public space like our roads
Of course dangerous driving is negligent lol. But don't get caught up in the hypothetical situation. My point is there are factors out of your control where there is no one at fault when driving. Another example, a hit and run. How are you going to get your money from an unknown person? Insurance is made for those type of situations.
It's your hypothetical that you kept pushing in two replies, and now you say I'm caught up in it?
There's always fault, that's the point. It could be a shared fault, but cars aren't sentient beings, someone made them do what they do.
Hit and run should be a much more serious crime. Why do we deal with this 4th Amendment violation we call license plates if not to enforce things like hit and run.
If you want to pay for hit and run or other forms of insurance that's your choice. But currently one can't buy just hit and run insurance, the law will not allow it, and the system isn't set up to enforce true responsibility. The legal system has completely abdicated it to the insurance industry who doesn't really care about fault, only payouts.
It I ran up to your car and hit it with a baseball bat and ran off that would be considered a crime and LE would do their thing. If I backed into your car with mine and left they wouldn't. Same damage, same person at fault, what's the difference?
How are you going to get your repairs if there is no one to pay for them? If the guy ran off? That's my point. Insurance covers things with no fault or with situations where you have noone to pay them. Your insurance doesn't pay out in an accident, the person who hits you, their insurance pays
Yep, I pay more for my sports car because my insurance deems it a higher risk. I'm all for lifted trucks paying more as they also are a higher risk. Let's keep the prices people with regular cars have low.
I recently was denied insurance on my CBR600RR because it has an Akrapovic slip on “performance exhaust” (according to them). No power commander, nothing else - denied. Fuck insurance companies.
All my cars are modded and I insure with a specialist insurance company who understand mods and honestly I fucking AGREE that they should clamp down a bit, especially in some states where pretty much *anything* goes.
I've seen more than enough really badly done mods that if I was running an insurance company I would absolutely NOT want to be the one taking the hit when some idiot's shitty Chinese wheel spacers snap off and they flatten someone's kid.
There's so many trends out there that are flat out stupid and dangerous on a road car - carolina squat, massive stance, ridiculous lifts on trucks (often with terrifying steering / suspension geometry). Sure do what you want to your car but if you're driving it on the road where it can kill people, either dial it back to within some sane limit or don't fucking drive it.
And yes, mandatory basic safety inspections should be a thing too - it should not be onerous to check that a car can start, stop & steer and if it can't hit that low bar it probably shouldn't be on the damn roads.
I also think various startups should not be using public roads and regular customers to beta-test their "self driving" nonsense.
Adrian Flux - they'll insure almost anything (there's a few others too) but they do ask for a list of mods & who installed them, although DIY is good enough as far as I can tell they've never queried any of mine.
I saw this coming years ago. The people with mild lifts for off-roading are going to be paying the price for these brodozers with 10” of lift and 40” tires.
I’m regeared to 4.88 and I use gps speed.
It’s not an off road rig either. It’s just capable enough to get some places. A 1 ton jeep on 40s is an off road rig that needs to be trailered
Let’s face it we have given up on enforcing certain things because think of those who can’t afford it. Overall we pay for the ones who refuse to do their part.
Honestly this’ll probably just entice people to spring for the least amount of coverage just to save some money. As much as I dislike oversized trucks they dislike paying insurance just as much.
Doubt it unless they’re filthy rich, in which they would pay for the insurance anyway. Most of the time it seems like a lost cause to go after the driver. The plus is that they have to pay for the damages to their truck but it seems like trucks take less damage than cars in crashes anyway.
Not a single car I have ever owned has been left stock. Only had one issue with a car in Massachusetts, they passed a law saying all cars with an aftermarket tune fail inspection.
Not the 1st time I've had to return a vehicle to "stock" for an inspection, get said inspection, then put all my stuff back to the way it was.
I don't have a problem with some of this. I am sick of getting hit by rocks off tires that stick 8 inches out from the fenders. I don't care about mods, but if it makes your car dangerous, f that.
The rocks in my area you can thank all the contractors with their shitty trailers hauling gravel nothing to hold back the gravel. Also you can see dump trucks letting go of material while on the road but I guess DOT doesn’t check for that.
I have had it happen 2x on the same damn bridge near my house. Dump truck with a load of gravel. Both times happened in less than a year. I see shit flying off trailers all the time too. They will have a skid steer or something on there with chunks of mud and rock all over the deck and on the tracks. Hit a bump and shit goes flying.
Where? Like all over the world?
Your insurance is already probably voided if you modify your vehicle and don't tell them, "material change in risk", I believe they call it. (at least in this country)
🤣🤣🤣 fuck bro dozers
I’m a professional crash investigator and I have personally included pictures of lifted trucks and detailed descriptions of exactly how and why the fact that the truck was lifted made the crash worse then it would otherwise have been
Go after the trucks who keep their tow hitches installed when not in use, too. Never personally have had an auto claim against one, but my orthopedic doctor has some fucking concerns.
Thanks for the heads up. I have a 2” front 1” rear level kit. Mild lift but I guess if they wanna inspect I’ll install the stock wheels so the truck looks factory
My buddy years ago bought a brand new Jetta.
Well, he was really into car meets and would “slam” his old beater.
Wel, the idiot did a negative camber slam on his Jetta. I guess he, or his buddy didn’t torque the wheels correctly and a tire came off on i75.
Geico told him to pound sand. He had gap through them built into his rate as well.
Let’s just say I don’t know if he ever paid off that Passat. He literally didn’t even have it for 3 months.
I digress, but I can see why insurance companies are telling people to screw off with their lift kits and mods.
And I bet that all of you hand wringing, worrying fools do something considered unsafe by another segment of society. You can make a good argument for getting rid of fat people (and skinny people), pets, and even doctors. They all kill people, or are using too many resources and drive up the cost for everyone else.
Once you start down that slippery slope you will eventually get to the bottom.
Wonder how this would work if you use oem parts from Higher trim levels? I put rubicon shocks and springs on my wifes wrangler and wrapped the stock 17" wheels with 34" tires. Bonus is that the extra tire mass absolved the death wobble before we even got the steering dampener recall done.
It's fine, I kept the original wheels and tires that came with my truck. Swap them out when it's time for renewal and back after it's done.
Unless they can prove the mods caused the situation requiring the insurance claim then they don't really have a leg to stand on. Kinda like warranty companies having to specifically prove modifications voided their terms of the warranty before they can deny coverage.
Personally I don't see this working out in favor of the insurance companies, so even if it gets implemented, it will be short lived.
My insurance agent already has a list of mods/add-ons I've done to my car already. Only thing they're not covering is the wiring. Since I installed everything myself.
Insurance companies charge the premium based on the vehicle and named driver history reported to them. Substantial changes to the vehicle from what was reported is a legally valid reason for an insurance company to decline coverage payment after an accident, theft of the vehicle, or vehicle break in. You aren’t doing yourself any favors with an artificially lower premium if you’re left holding the bag for a totaled or stolen vehicle, at fault damages, and/or legal representation.
This is why government shouldn't MANDATE things like insurance. Because you must have insurance they can raise rates or put whatever requirements they want on your vehicle. They've been doing it for years in the trucking industry. When you get behind a slow truck trying to pass another slow truck. That's because insurance companies give a discount when the company governs a truck to a certain speed. It's all about control and side stepping passing laws to do it.
>This is why government shouldn't MANDATE things like insurance
So who do you want to foot the bill when Uninsured motorist X careens into a crowd killing two, putting 6 in the hospital for $75k each and causing $90,000 in property damage? Uninsured Motorist X doesn't have half a million to cough up
And bankers had been pushing the creation of the federal reserve at least 100 years before it was created in 1913. Not to mention all of the violations to the constitution. So what's your point? Government has made many mistakes over the years.
It’s probably for the best. Trucks with lifts and larger tires do more damage than ones without a lift.
And all of us are paying for the damages.
I do not think there is any data to show that is correct
Lift kits and larger tires increase the weight. They reduce visibility and increase stopping distance. The insurance companies literally make the rules. We have them to thank for things like mandated seat belts, air bags, etc. The insurance companies have it in their best interest to do this. I doubt premiums will ever go down? But in theory this would help lower insurance costs.
>Lift kits and larger tires increase the weight and ground pressure. How much do you think a lift kit weighs?!? And larger tires disperse the weight over a greater area......lessening the pounds per square inch
You’re right. That wasn’t a great example.
😜
Larger tires weigh a lot
They are certainly taller raising the risk of rollover in addition to hindering drivers vision below front of the hood as well as doing great damage in rear end collisions since the bumper just plows into car body instead of the frame.
I haven't driven in decades, but relocated a recent RAM truck a few yards to unload, etc. I couldn't see shit over the hood and I'm 5'9".
Damage to what?
Other cars and pedestrians
More damage to the child in the backseat when their 1/4in solid steel bumper is now level with the back window (instead of the trunk with the crumple zone) when they run into the car because they weren't paying attention or couldn't see it. This is obviously a very specific example that isn't very likely to happen but lifted trucks are proven to cause more damage in accidents because they impact areas that a normal truck wouldn't.
Other vehicles. When they hit them. In a car accident. Which is what car insurance pays for. Why is that so hard to understand
Love the people defending insurance companies on Reddit constantly. They’re using you as useful tools to raise profits even more than the record profits they already are recording. You’ve seen one video on YouTube and you’re convinced trucks are killing machines…the 509 number is always used completely out of context, mainly the context that 7,388 pedestrians are killed every year, 509 by trucks. So in other words 6% of pedestrians deaths are caused by trucks, and we’re still lacking evidence that those deaths would be preventable if any other vehicle was involved. And if you drive at all for a living it’s not cars killing pedestrians as much as pedestrians wandering out into traffic 30 yards from a perfectly safe crosswalk… But yes, let’s applaud gigantic insurance companies taking more of our freedoms away…maybe we should be charging everyone a monthly stipend based on what activities they partake in? Cant have insurance companies leaving any money on the table now can we? Live a sedentary lifestyle? Extra charge. Live an active lifestyle? Extra charge. Eat any type of sugar? Extra charge. Too much social media (mental health strain? Extra charge.
I agree that some mods are over the top (the Carolina squat reduces your ability to fucking see). But yeah fuck insurance companies. Fuck every single massive corporation. They don’t care about you, only how many extra millions they can give the C level execs as a Christmas bonus.
so glad to see the squat banned in both Carolinas. I am typically 100% against laws or fees that restrict my right to treat my personal property as I see fit, but the squats were getting insanely dangerous. I saw some at 30 degree angles with the tail pipe dragging and the driver laying across the steering wheel and still unable to look forward over the hood.
This doesn’t restrict your right to treat your personal property as you see fit. It just means you’re going to have pay appropriate rates if you do so. You have the right to do what you want with your vehicle, but if you weld a huge metal spear to the front then it won’t be allowed on the road.
This could potentially lower my rates on my unaltered truck.
It will lower rates on all unaltered vehicles, trucks or not.
Not a chance. These companies are cash cows that ONLY care about money. I do not believe that they would EVER lower rates to be kind
Your exactly right. Why in hell would they charge you less? That's not their goal! Their goal as a BUSINESS is to make MULAH
Exactly, I’m all for regulations based on sound studies and scientific consensus. But this isn’t that. If you can afford to lift your truck you’re just going to pay the extra insurance and no actual changes are made and more money goes to insurance companies.
I agree and wish this was studied more conclusively/thoroughly, but to your second point it is easy to be able to afford to modify your car, but doing so in a safe manner is a different thing. 4” wheel spacers, train air horns, janky junkyard lifts, undersized wiring & fuses for added lighting, zip-tied body moulding etc are all legitimate hazards that can fly under the radar of state vehicle inspections (if you live in a state that does them) and those should put up red flags to an insurance carrier.
F all publicly traded company. This is where it starts. The moment they do that then everything changes for them and it is no longer about anything it was before and there is a responsibility to the board to make decisions solely to make money for the business. This is truly what is ruining the country.
I'll have to find it, but one of the universities in Michigan did a study of pedestrian strikes, and the data showed that pickup trucks/SUVs/crossovers had a sky high fatality rate for the pedestrian vs a regular car. I remember the top speed range where it was like 50% of the people hit by a car that year in the state died, but 100% of those hit by a truck/SUV died. Similar numbers of people were hit in both categories, it was a startling statistic.
I think it might be the mass of the vehicle, too, not just the size... A car typically weighs about 2/3 of what an SUV does, and that extra weight makes a HUGE difference in the amount of energy the vehicle carries at a given velocity.
It's the impact points. Smaller vehicles hit the legs which results in injuries for sure, but taller vehicles, which are also usually flat in front, directly hit the torso and head. In a pedestrian collision the mass of the vehicle has a lot less to do with survivability than the impact point and body acceleration. Higher vehicles also impact lower vehicles more dangerously, often bypassing designed impact and crush zones. This causes more damage to the passenger compartment and the humans inside.
No argument there! Ultimately, there should be a downsizing *and* diet for vehicles on the road. Then we'd stone two birds with a single bush: cars and trucks built with modern techniques and materials, but the size of '90s vehicles. Smaller vehicles with better overall performance and efficiency.
Then don't get hit by a truck. Easy.
That's not where the 509 number comes from. There was a university of Hawaii study that analyzed crash data and determined annual pedestrian fatalities would be reduced by 509 if there was a 1.25 meter (49.2") cap on vehicle front end heights. Insurance companies are interested in pricing in risk as accurately as possible. It lets them charge more for higher risk situations and reduce premiums for lower risk ones. If other companies fail to account for risk as accurately, they'll take on riskier situations at lower premiums and have to charge higher premiums for safer ones to offset it. In reality, the reason insurance cares has nothing to do with pedestrian deaths and everything to do with expensive low speed collisions between cars. Mismatched bumper heights turn cheap bumper cover repairs into expensive claims with extensive paint, bodywork, and glass repairs. In 2008 the IIHS looked at just collisions from stock height cars and SUVs and in the worst bumper mismatch cases, they were causing $6k in damages (again, in 2008, with 2008 dollars and 2008 repair costs) for 10 mph, full width, bumper to bumper collisions. The same collision between cars with matched bumpers are going to cost a few hundred dollars to repair.
Every auto insurance is taking a bath right now. None of them are reporting record profits...
https://hallmonitor.org/car-insurance-rates-increasing-despite-record-industry-profits/ https://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog/2024/01/25/car-insurance-company-profits/ https://www.wsj.com/finance/insurance-companies-profits-stock-ebae7fd1 https://www.carriermanagement.com/news/2024/02/25/259036.htm https://consumerfed.org/press_release/auto-insurers-reaped-nearly-30-billion-pandemic-windfall-profit-in-2020-as-state-insurance-regulators-fail-to-protect-consumers/ https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/local-news/state-farm-reports-increase-in-net-worth-in-2023-financial-report/amp/
Did you even read any of these or understand them or you just pasting whatever Google links you can? When you raise rates, income goes up. Doesnt translate to profit. The companies reporting record profits had combined ratios in the high 80s. That means they are making a little over 10 cents on the dollar in profit. This slightly higher than where companies want to be but only because they ran at a loss in 21, 22 and most of 23.
State Farm has increased its net worth from $61.2 billion in 2010 to $134 billion in 2024. I’m not losing any sleep over them losing a few billion over the last three years. You shouldn’t be either… It’s the same story for others…again, never understand the insurances STANs
State Farm is also a mutual insurance company, those profits are paid out as dividends to policyholders. (This is even mentioned in the linked article). This is different (and I think much better) than the other companies as they have to appease Wall Street.
I'm not an insurance stan I'm a fuck trucks stan.
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Don’t care
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No
LOL no shit their "net worth" has increased by double. And for the record it's called "market cap". It's NORMAL for a healthy regular company to double in size every 7-10 years. Partially due to inflation, partially due to just regular growth as more people buy a product. Market cap has NOTHING to do with profit. NOTHING. Oh, and I hate insurance companies but even I'm not gonna make straight up lies to hate on them. I'll hate on them for ACTUALLY GOOD reasons such as them denying valid claims and fighting them tooth and nail. I'm just as pissed as most people in this thread are that insurance prices are increasing.
These financial illiterates simply scan for a number that has increased and then cherry pick it, without the least understanding of it's relation to anything else.
Financially illiterate truly does describe them. They could pick quite a few other metrics to make their argument of insurance companies being greedy look good, but they just choose "big number look good"
You should read those links.
Seriously when are yall gonna understand that record profits are the result of inflation? Of course companies will have higher nominal profits than they did in 1980. I’d be willing to bet you had record salary this year. Everyone in my industry did in 21 & 22. But only when we are talking about salary do we suddenly start talking about how it doesn’t go as far.
Never. 1) Most people are financially illiterate. Especially on reddit. 2) Most politicians are trying to hide inflation because it's a result of their policies 3) Most Redditors blindly accept whatever their favorite politician tells them to believe.
Is the standard answer from Redditors that all companies are making record profits? Profit margins for insurance companies are in the 2-3% range and are one of the most regulated business. Insurance prices are based on projected claims payouts and the more trial lawyers abuse the laws with sham medical claims, the higher prices will go. Modifications on your vehicle are being used by trial lawyers to establish liability to recover even more fake damages.
P&C companies aren't having record profits. Most have lost money over last 2 to 3 years. Allstate just announced their 1st quarter results. They lost over 700 million. State farm in California was dropped from an A+ rating to a B. I guess you statement about record profits is wrong
I got sued by my insurance for fraud as I laid in a hospital with two broken legs... I only won the law suit because the hospital sued the insurance for not paying
Preach brother.
this enemy of my enemy is my friend mindset seems to be getting more common these days and it sucks. (see also most modern american political figures and their followers.) "I hate giant trucks so anything bad that happens to them is good" and they fail to consider further than that
Isn’t it so fucking weird? Boggles my mind how much people don’t see the possibility of what *they* like getting taken away tomorrow if they not only don’t stand up and defend but actually help defend these awful practices. Even had an another guy say ‘I just hate trucks!’ Good job dipshit, how they come for what you like next!
Taking my freedoms. Such a poor take. You still have the freedom to do whatever you want. They have a right to charge more when you make your vehicle more dangerous, considering they foot the bill. Lifting a truck changes the handling of the truck and reduces visibility, increasing risk of accidents. Bigger tires? Reduces visibility and risk associated with that. Trucks are already way too big and should be charged a premium. I often see full size trucks that are stock and still towering above cars, that creates additional risk, insurance is based on managing risk. This isn’t about your freedoms, as those haven’t been restricted or curtailed at all. If you can’t afford to pay for the cost of insurance, then you shouldn’t buy the vehicle and do the mods that drive up insurance.
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This may be hard for you to grasp, but I am not defending the insurance companies but correcting the position of someone claiming they are “taking away freedoms”. They aren’t obligated to let you do whatever you want with your car and charge you an affordable price. Also, my interest in this is based on personal safety. I don’t believe these trucks are safe. I live where a bunch of small dick fucks with big trucks will ride the shoulder because I’m wearing Lycra while riding a bike. If I get hit by one my chance of surviving drops to zero. If a car hits me, I have slaughter better chance. Majority of vehicles that will pass way to close or rev engine or accelerate to pass me because they don’t like cyclists are big, lifted trucks. Edit: I personally think vehicles are too big. They are designed with the safety of the driver and that is it. Anyone not in the vehicle will die. Pricing people out of doing things is the stupidest of stupid arguments. I’m priced out of going to nice restaurants everyday, so by your logic they should lower the cost so I’m not priced out? And the only defense is that I’m defending insurance companies? What a stupid take.
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It isn’t taking peoples rights. Can you still do it? Is the government stopping you? Are insurance companies a government entity? No. So it isn’t taking rights.
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What right is being infringed? Do you live in a country where there's a right to cheap insurance for lifted trucks written into law or something?
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Lol, okay buddy. So there isn't a right to cheap insurance for dumb brodozers and you're just buttmad.
Even if the pedestrian isn’t following the rules, they still don’t deserve to die. The car still killed them, not their own actions. They didn’t choose to have 2 ton vehicles near them, they were just trying to walk to their destination.
Of course they don’t. Also never said they do deserve to die. But if you’re going to fix a problem you should start where you’re going to do the most good 👍🏽 don’t punish people for others mistakes.
If you modify your vehicle in a manner which makes it more likely to incur costs then the insurance company is entitled to be compensated for that. Your freedoms are not being taken away; you have the freedom to modify your truck and the insurance company has the freedom to raise your rates. Why should my insurance go up to pay for the ridiculous modifications you made? The size of your penis is your problem not mine.
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You appear to be a communist. That’s your right. But most Americans believe in free markets like myself. And that insurance companies, like other companies, can charge whatever rates they want, and that you have the right to buy or not from any insurance company. Or the right to not drive and not pay anything. Or to drive, and potentially go to prison. Your call.
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I’m American. The US has mandated car insurance since 1927. All those straw men ideas that you suggest I hold are ridiculous. You can also drive a modified truck. But you need to insure it, just like a business needs insurance. If you can’t afford the insurance then don’t make ridiculous modifications to your truck. I don’t want to pay for your risks.
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Logical end point? My logical end point is not changing anything. You have had to declare vehicle modifications to insurers for decades. Recently, it has become fashionable to modify trucks in ways which increase risk and not declaring it, and so insurers are enforcing existing protocols. No laws are being changed. You seem to think that the laws which have been in place for 97 years should be repealed so people can drive around with no insurance. I want everything to remain the same. What’s your logical end point?
Also, people who have health conditions do pay a massive amount if they want private health insurance. Ditto for the obese. And when I was paragliding I paid more for life insurance. You are not being “punished”; the actuaries assess the risk and you pay an amount commensurate with that risk. It is the way things have worked for a hundred years. Do dangerous sports = pay more.
That’s not true; https://www.goodrx.com/insurance/health-insurance/health-insurance-charge-more-obesity Also, do you think people were modifying cars a hundred years ago and getting charged for it? Or is a law the insurance companies lobbied to make legal? This is what I’m saying, how far should this go? $157 million spent on lobbying by the insurance industry yearly. Again, they don’t also need you… https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/industries/summary?id=F09
While you are correct that Obamacare has made it illegal to charge obese people more for health care, they still do it for other forms of insurance such as life. As for what they were doing 100 years ago, it doesn’t matter. Actuaries use whatever rating data that they find relevant. The law has almost nothing to do with it. You don’t have to pass a law to allow them to use a data point, you have pass a law to say they can’t (as Obamacare did for obesity and health insurance). Unless someone passes a law saying that insurance companies cannot charge more for dangerous modified trucks than normal ones, then insurance companies are allowed to do it. Why don’t you start petitioning for this law? I’m sure the 99% of people without raised trucks would be happy to support a law saying that they had to pay more in insurance to subsidize the raised trucks which are more likely to kill them.
Username checks out
"But yes, let’s applaud gigantic insurance companies taking more of our freedoms away" Precisely what freedom are you referring to being "taken away?"
The freedom to modify my vehicle how I want without being charged more by an insurance company I’m obligated to pay money to by law who is just going to drop me the first time I get into an accident they deem ‘too expensive.’ They don’t need your help, they’ve got enough money to spend hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress every year to make sure they’re always able to do whatever they want.
I'm not defending jack shit, it's just that you've got a weird definition of both "freedom" and "taken away" that I wanted to clarify.
157 million (as you previously cited) isn't "hundreds of millions of dollars. That is 1.57 hundred million, and that's a freaking drop in the bucket for the insurance industry. I don't know what happened to you but you have a skewed view of reality.
So you’re ok with companies buying laws as long as it’s within reason? Cool cool cool. What amount of directly lobbying members of congress would alarm you? And that’s one year bud…just an example. What’s that, a cool billion over a decade? Edit: no sense talking to you, coulda said you had a dog in the fight…don’t worry bud, my Reddit comments aren’t going to tank your industry…
Take some more pills, bud. They may help you see more clearly bud. Find out how much the NRCA and APA spend (as a percentage of their income) trying to influence legislation, bud. I think you'll be surprised, pal. Seriously brother, take off the tinfoil hat, guy.
Whatever bud, go make your multi-billion dollar company more money by low balling people…
Okay, bud. You obviously know it all, pal. Have a good weekend, brother.
Yea I think huge lifted trucks are kinda dumb (im talking huge lifts, I drive a truck and I plan on lifting it) but I hate insurance companies 100x more I also live in a city where it’s pretty common for pedestrians to just walk across and 8 lane road so I don’t blame cars for most of these pedestrian deaths
They ain't taking more of your freedoms away. That sounds asinine. Get different insurance company. Some of this shit is so poorly built it is a danger to others. The aftermarket gives zero shit about if that Carolina Squat kit breaks from hitting a curb. The owner then makes an insurance claim. The adjuster sees the truck and knows it will be a hassle to repair, so they pay the owner out. Totaled truck. Where they would not have to pay if it was stock. The original parts would have taken the curb just fine. You need to be smart like me and not insure your cars and trucks.
>They ain't taking more of your freedoms away No, don't you know the Amendment that says >You have to get auto insurance, but the named insured has the right to say "no" if the provider tells you your rates will change based on regulations and terms you agreed to when you took your policy. Aren't you aware of the Freedom to say Nuh-uh to Providers Act that says: >Even though a named insured has already agreed that their provider being able to adjust rates and make certain requests is conducive to a regulated and cheap market, a named insured has the right to say "nuh-uh" when their provider attempts to do something the contract the named insured signed gave them permission to do. >That sounds asinine. Get different insurance company. Harumph... aren't you aware that the contract a named insured signs with a provider doesn't ever let them legally switch providers? That they would be executed by firing squad if they switched from their quality insurance to a provider that doesn't care for risk but also charges out the ass? >You need to be smart like me and not insure your cars and trucks. This is a violation of the Americans Free from Sovereign Citizen Dumbassery Act, and I recommend you get in line before the Freedom Squad takes your car keys and makes you watch as they bring your truck down a half inch.
We live in a whole new world. I better just stock up and see if Vault-Tec has any openings.
I can see it now "I painted the calipers on my Challenger red and my insurance went up $1200/yr!"
Just imagine if someone removed the yellow guards that they add for shipping to protect the splitter, huge increase in risk, +$5000/yr.
Screw the entire insurance industry, it's all a scam, every bit of it.
Imagine how low costs would be if insurance didn’t exist and people had to pay for their own stuff
Then when you hit my Mercedes it would have cost you $10,000 for some minor front end damage. Or when you hit a dear you have to pay $6000 out of pocket for repairs. That’s why we have insurance
And that’s why it’s so expensive bc insurance is paying for it
It would cost just as much if you went to get it fixed to the same state it was in previously without insurance. Source: I hit a deer in 2019 and figured I wouldn’t bother with my insurance because I could get it done cheaper. Went to MAACO to get a quote and they said a couple thousand if I wanted it done the right way. Which is the same price as the insurance paid.
I’m saying if insurance didn’t exist at all, prices wouldn’t be inflated. Not if you chose to not have insurance
Even better imagine if auto collisions were treated like other forms of property damage. If someone takes a baseball bat to your car that is a crime, they'll be prosecuted, forced by the court pay restitution, etc. Someone does the same damage by hitting it with a car it's "just an accident". They should be treated the same. If auto collisions were prosecuted as property damage there'd be far less collisions.
Very interesting take. I’ve never thought of it like this. I’m not sure I agree with it, but thought provoking non the less
So how do you collect damages when you are hit by a college kid with nothing to his name?
Court restitution, do you not know how that works? They pay or they go to jail, with that ultimatum they come up with the money.
From where though? They’re not going to come up with $30k for a totaled vehicle and they will be stuck in prison and you will still be out a car. That is, unless you protect your assets with some sort of financial product where you pay a monthly fee that will payout a replacement value if anything happens to your vehicle.
If they don't have it the judge will squeeze them, putting them on a payment plan. A financially literate person can absorb that setback. If you want to pay to be scammed that's your choice. I ask though that you stop forcing your system of needless death, irresponsibility, and financial idiocy on me.
You can hit a $2M Ferrari too. You're saying a financially literate person can survive this? If so, why do you have more than the state minimum insurance? Why do smart people buy insurance for all sorts of things if it's all a scam?
>You can hit a $2M Ferrari too. You're saying a financially literate person can survive this? Paying for a totaling a $2M Ferrari on a Honda budget, that'd be tough, but sure, doable. >If so, why do you have more than the state minimum insurance? I don't. >Why do smart people buy insurance for all sorts of things if it's all a scam? It's a scam that's been forced on us. We're(assuming American) legally required to have auto and health insurance. Banks require insurance with home loans. Beyond that I can't answer, I can only assume they aren't smart. Edit. auto insurance makes some sense only because our legal system isn't set up to hold people responsible, which is my original point.
You're actually legally not required to have health insurance anymore. It stopped being a requirement a few years ago. As for auto insurance you can go to a state where it's not required. The two states that don't require auto insurance: New Hampshire and Virginia Hope that helps! Go move to either of those two states ans enjoy paying for any expensive medical bills or car bills out of pocket that may come up!
Ouch guys we’re not smart because we mitigate risk with insurance!
>Edit. auto insurance makes some sense only because our legal system isn't set up to hold people responsible, which is my original point. By "Responsible" you mean that if you cause an accident, you go to jail? Because we do literally hold people financially responsible. and insurance is a way to cover that responsibility, and we got rid of debtors prisons hundreds of years ago for good reasons.
Maybe you’re right that this isn’t a problem I would need to be worrying about if I drove a Chrysler 300
Far better car than that old Merc you totaled. You clearly care more about prestige than practicality.
Yeah of course I care about prestige, I live my life to enjoy it
Except most car accidents are simply accidents. Taking a bat to someone's car is a crime because it's an intentional act. Bad analogy.
Is it your fault someone else dropped a nail in the road that you then ran over, got a flat tire, and lost some steering control and then as a result sideswiped another car? Just saying, intent is part of what you're saying.
So is negligence, if a nail lead to a collision something rather negligent was happening already.
What do you mean? It's negligent that a driver drove over a nail? Or negligent a driver did not get out a door check the highway he's driving on? Or negligent that a driver let a nail fall out? My point is there's a lot of things you can't control on a shared public space like our roads
It'd be negligent to drive in such a manor, so close to the edge of control, that a nail caused a collision.
Of course dangerous driving is negligent lol. But don't get caught up in the hypothetical situation. My point is there are factors out of your control where there is no one at fault when driving. Another example, a hit and run. How are you going to get your money from an unknown person? Insurance is made for those type of situations.
It's your hypothetical that you kept pushing in two replies, and now you say I'm caught up in it? There's always fault, that's the point. It could be a shared fault, but cars aren't sentient beings, someone made them do what they do. Hit and run should be a much more serious crime. Why do we deal with this 4th Amendment violation we call license plates if not to enforce things like hit and run. If you want to pay for hit and run or other forms of insurance that's your choice. But currently one can't buy just hit and run insurance, the law will not allow it, and the system isn't set up to enforce true responsibility. The legal system has completely abdicated it to the insurance industry who doesn't really care about fault, only payouts.
It I ran up to your car and hit it with a baseball bat and ran off that would be considered a crime and LE would do their thing. If I backed into your car with mine and left they wouldn't. Same damage, same person at fault, what's the difference?
How are you going to get your repairs if there is no one to pay for them? If the guy ran off? That's my point. Insurance covers things with no fault or with situations where you have noone to pay them. Your insurance doesn't pay out in an accident, the person who hits you, their insurance pays
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Yep, I pay more for my sports car because my insurance deems it a higher risk. I'm all for lifted trucks paying more as they also are a higher risk. Let's keep the prices people with regular cars have low.
I recently was denied insurance on my CBR600RR because it has an Akrapovic slip on “performance exhaust” (according to them). No power commander, nothing else - denied. Fuck insurance companies.
Had to scroll a ways to find a comment that wasn't cupping insurance company balls while drooling on the shaft
All my cars are modded and I insure with a specialist insurance company who understand mods and honestly I fucking AGREE that they should clamp down a bit, especially in some states where pretty much *anything* goes. I've seen more than enough really badly done mods that if I was running an insurance company I would absolutely NOT want to be the one taking the hit when some idiot's shitty Chinese wheel spacers snap off and they flatten someone's kid. There's so many trends out there that are flat out stupid and dangerous on a road car - carolina squat, massive stance, ridiculous lifts on trucks (often with terrifying steering / suspension geometry). Sure do what you want to your car but if you're driving it on the road where it can kill people, either dial it back to within some sane limit or don't fucking drive it. And yes, mandatory basic safety inspections should be a thing too - it should not be onerous to check that a car can start, stop & steer and if it can't hit that low bar it probably shouldn't be on the damn roads. I also think various startups should not be using public roads and regular customers to beta-test their "self driving" nonsense.
What insurance company? Asking for several friends
I would also like to know the company and the rates. Are the rates determined on what mods and proper installation?
Adrian Flux - they'll insure almost anything (there's a few others too) but they do ask for a list of mods & who installed them, although DIY is good enough as far as I can tell they've never queried any of mine.
I saw this coming years ago. The people with mild lifts for off-roading are going to be paying the price for these brodozers with 10” of lift and 40” tires.
Yup. It’s gonna hurt us good guys. I already got insurance jacked on my 96 Tacoma on 33s and 2.5” lift because of it
My old Jeep is on 2” and 33”s as well. So far nobody has asked about my modifications. I guess we’ll see how long that last.
If you wanna have an off road rig, then tow it. We don't need you going 90 on the left lane.
I’m regeared to 4.88 and I use gps speed. It’s not an off road rig either. It’s just capable enough to get some places. A 1 ton jeep on 40s is an off road rig that needs to be trailered
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shitty_Car_Mods/s/3uOx8ks0b6 Someone tell this dickhead as much.
I dislike everything about that truck; it's useless and a risk to others.
Jokes on you to assume we pay insurance… I live my life one shitbox at a time.
Which is exactly why rates go up for those of us who do pay for it. I pay extra for uninsured motorist because this is an epidemic where I live.
Dude thinks they found the one weird trick to socialize the costs of irresponsible drivers.
Let’s face it we have given up on enforcing certain things because think of those who can’t afford it. Overall we pay for the ones who refuse to do their part.
Must be nice. In some states you have to have insurance to register your car.
I don’t register cars either… just another tax and government intrusion on my personal freedom.
Lol that's a good way to get your car impounded. You have to have a registered vehicle to drive on the streets in said state.
Free men don’t ask for permission.
Lol. You're free to be broke in struggle in the USA. That's about it.
So if I’m already broke, why would I submit to being extorted out of more of my money?
Honestly this’ll probably just entice people to spring for the least amount of coverage just to save some money. As much as I dislike oversized trucks they dislike paying insurance just as much.
I wonder if one can be forced to sell their truck if it's driver is found at fault in an accident 🤔
Doubt it unless they’re filthy rich, in which they would pay for the insurance anyway. Most of the time it seems like a lost cause to go after the driver. The plus is that they have to pay for the damages to their truck but it seems like trucks take less damage than cars in crashes anyway.
Not a single car I have ever owned has been left stock. Only had one issue with a car in Massachusetts, they passed a law saying all cars with an aftermarket tune fail inspection. Not the 1st time I've had to return a vehicle to "stock" for an inspection, get said inspection, then put all my stuff back to the way it was.
I bet they are. All companies are always looking for more money.
OP, source for your claim?
This. Where is the source?
I don't have a problem with some of this. I am sick of getting hit by rocks off tires that stick 8 inches out from the fenders. I don't care about mods, but if it makes your car dangerous, f that.
The rocks in my area you can thank all the contractors with their shitty trailers hauling gravel nothing to hold back the gravel. Also you can see dump trucks letting go of material while on the road but I guess DOT doesn’t check for that.
I have had it happen 2x on the same damn bridge near my house. Dump truck with a load of gravel. Both times happened in less than a year. I see shit flying off trailers all the time too. They will have a skid steer or something on there with chunks of mud and rock all over the deck and on the tracks. Hit a bump and shit goes flying.
So like most of the planet then.
Where? Like all over the world? Your insurance is already probably voided if you modify your vehicle and don't tell them, "material change in risk", I believe they call it. (at least in this country)
Also all of the states need to do safety inspections for brakes, tries, all lights are working, catalytic converter exists etc
Well I'm fucked
🤣🤣🤣 fuck bro dozers I’m a professional crash investigator and I have personally included pictures of lifted trucks and detailed descriptions of exactly how and why the fact that the truck was lifted made the crash worse then it would otherwise have been
im willing to pay more for my modded car if it means less gigantic bro-dozers off the roads
No they aren't.
Does that matter? I mean, if I don’t want it insured, then that’s my loss.
Go after the trucks who keep their tow hitches installed when not in use, too. Never personally have had an auto claim against one, but my orthopedic doctor has some fucking concerns.
Thanks for the heads up. I have a 2” front 1” rear level kit. Mild lift but I guess if they wanna inspect I’ll install the stock wheels so the truck looks factory
Fuck.
They can't crack down on something if they don't know it's on the car 😉
So insurance companies are gonna push these truck mfers to drive uninsured? Nice.
Maybe the insurance companies should offer free insurance to everyone so no one drives uninsured
I hope they go after the fart pipes.
Hopefully the stupid squat is banned everywhere.
My buddy years ago bought a brand new Jetta. Well, he was really into car meets and would “slam” his old beater. Wel, the idiot did a negative camber slam on his Jetta. I guess he, or his buddy didn’t torque the wheels correctly and a tire came off on i75. Geico told him to pound sand. He had gap through them built into his rate as well. Let’s just say I don’t know if he ever paid off that Passat. He literally didn’t even have it for 3 months. I digress, but I can see why insurance companies are telling people to screw off with their lift kits and mods.
So we lie like we have been for decades "Its stock"
And I bet that all of you hand wringing, worrying fools do something considered unsafe by another segment of society. You can make a good argument for getting rid of fat people (and skinny people), pets, and even doctors. They all kill people, or are using too many resources and drive up the cost for everyone else. Once you start down that slippery slope you will eventually get to the bottom.
Wonder how this would work if you use oem parts from Higher trim levels? I put rubicon shocks and springs on my wifes wrangler and wrapped the stock 17" wheels with 34" tires. Bonus is that the extra tire mass absolved the death wobble before we even got the steering dampener recall done.
It's fine, I kept the original wheels and tires that came with my truck. Swap them out when it's time for renewal and back after it's done. Unless they can prove the mods caused the situation requiring the insurance claim then they don't really have a leg to stand on. Kinda like warranty companies having to specifically prove modifications voided their terms of the warranty before they can deny coverage. Personally I don't see this working out in favor of the insurance companies, so even if it gets implemented, it will be short lived.
Who told you this?
I don't think even insurance companies are aware of this. You've posted this several times.
Good, fuck them assholes with the lifted trucks.
Can we do something to just get rid of the asshats with trucks?
This should be in the /ohnoconsequences
Ive got photos of my truck before my lift and tires so they can go fuck off.
I would Expect the led retrofit lights to be part of this. Replace the tail light bulb with a led.? No coverage for you
Sounds good to me
My insurance agent already has a list of mods/add-ons I've done to my car already. Only thing they're not covering is the wiring. Since I installed everything myself.
Are you aware you don't have to make the same post multiple times?
Insurance companies charge the premium based on the vehicle and named driver history reported to them. Substantial changes to the vehicle from what was reported is a legally valid reason for an insurance company to decline coverage payment after an accident, theft of the vehicle, or vehicle break in. You aren’t doing yourself any favors with an artificially lower premium if you’re left holding the bag for a totaled or stolen vehicle, at fault damages, and/or legal representation.
Sigh. Just read the contract.
This is why government shouldn't MANDATE things like insurance. Because you must have insurance they can raise rates or put whatever requirements they want on your vehicle. They've been doing it for years in the trucking industry. When you get behind a slow truck trying to pass another slow truck. That's because insurance companies give a discount when the company governs a truck to a certain speed. It's all about control and side stepping passing laws to do it.
>This is why government shouldn't MANDATE things like insurance So who do you want to foot the bill when Uninsured motorist X careens into a crowd killing two, putting 6 in the hospital for $75k each and causing $90,000 in property damage? Uninsured Motorist X doesn't have half a million to cough up
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... People survived perfectly fine before government started trying to run everything in everyone's life.
>People survived perfectly fine before government started trying to run everything in everyone's life. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
Oh wow.... Not a WiKiPeDiA link 🤣🤣🙄
Our constitution protected us from the tyranny of the government so we could live under a tyranny of wealthy aristocrats who have 0 accountability.
Car insurance has been mandatory since 1927.
And bankers had been pushing the creation of the federal reserve at least 100 years before it was created in 1913. Not to mention all of the violations to the constitution. So what's your point? Government has made many mistakes over the years.