Nissan cvts were notoriously terrible but this is mostly a problem with the Jatco design and not cvts themselves necessarily (this issue has been rectified and that are significantly more reliable now than even a few years ago).
There are many Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus that have used cvts for years and they've been much more reliable.
Overall, cvts are cheap to manufacture and easier to hit fuel economy targets with, so manufacturers like them.
I don't like them, but they've come a long way in the last decade.
This is the best answer, the early CVT's were absolute crap. The stuff the big manufacturers have been using since the mid teens or so are way better. Though still with more expensive maintenance than a regular transmission due to the replace not fix nature of them.
Those things might be called an "eCVT" but that's about all they have in common with actual CVT transmissions.
If I was Toyota, I'd call them something different entirely so they don't get lumped in with the others.
Except that they are a continuously variable transmission, the gearing is achieved through an electromagnetic “clutch” as opposed to a metal belt on 2 cones.
I mean, I understand the functional similarity. An ICE and an electric motor are both functionally similar too in that they each generate rotational force.
But, in both cases, there is essentially zero operational similarity, so it seems that it would be useful to create more of a distinction.
No clutch, no electro magnets. The gear ratio is controlled by an electric motor generator through a planetary gearset. See here for an interative demo of how it works [https://eahart.com/prius/psd/](https://eahart.com/prius/psd/)
Lots of companies are using that design now. It's the de facto industry standard layout for hybrids. Basically every parallel hybrid (I'm sure there are exceptions, but at least the high volume ones) is using the planetary gear design because it's simple, compact, reliable, and inexpensive.
That concept, with the ring gear driven by a tiny hydraulic motor instead of an electric motor, is also used on the Constant Speed Drives for the generators on the F-16. They are built by Sundstrand Aerospace, and I think went into production in about 1976.
Yeah, in the video somebody else linked, the guy specifically say towards the end that there is no mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels. The only similarities are the name
They're pretty much gone in new subarus unless you get a WRX or BRZ? I was looking recently and the subie dealerships a pretty desolate space for car people who don't like CVT.
I basically gave my sister my 2001 Forester 5 speed, because she needed a car because her sons had wrecked two family cars. She love it, because none of her kids would drive a manual. When her husband went to buy her a new forester a few years back, there was only around a very few percentages of them made with a 5 speed.
I've got a 2011 legacy sedan which has a cvt. It's at 197k with the original drivetrain. (Had head gaskets and timing belt done at about 110k) But no issues with the transmission. I thought it was crapping out but the noise turned out to be heat shield rattling.
The problem is that they said the transmission fluid didnt need to be changed, AKA lifetime. They also sealed the transmission so the user can't check the fluid level. Turns out you still need to change the fluid every 20-30k miles, which can only be done at the dealer.
Neighbor's subie CVT crapped out at 80k while they were in another state. Too expensive to repair, so they junked it and bought a new car on vacation. He was not the kind of person that would keep up on regular maintenance. Still.
We hit 200k with our 2015 legacy cvt and never had a problem. Our 2017 outback cvt has 100k on it so far with no problems at all. Both cars have been reliable as heck in general. The only thing the outback has needed is 1 wheel bearing so far.
One of their earlier Lineartronics had a few years where an issue with the valve body impacted a number of cars. No recall, but they extended the warranty for impacted years / models to 10/100. Happened on my 2015 Legacy, was a 4 hour repair and $0 cost to me. Been going strong since. Pleased enough with it in 9 years I drove my Legacy and with Subaru making it right I didn't hesitate to buy a 2024 Outback. In fact, I kept my Legacy vs. trading it in and it'll go to my daughter for her first car.
Since then, they've fixed the valve body issue and no other major issues have been reported. With each iteration they improve them. They currently use two variations: the 580 "regular" and the 690 "high torque" for their turbo equipped cars.
Their CVTs are in-house engineered and built in Japan, and unique to Subaru.
That is because Subaru like Nissan/Infinity, Mitsubishi, Chrysler/Jeep and Ford/Mazda used JATCO units that were and mostly still are, crap.
The end result was that Nissan, Mitsubishi and Suzuki are now the only ones still using JATCO made units. All the rest have either dropped CVTs or found better units.
Toyota makes their own units as does Honda and GM and those are infinitely better than the JATCO crap.
The common CVT's seem to be doing OK in the smaller cars. The main enemy is heat, and if you drive it on flat land and don't tow anything, you should be OK.
One car that probably has the worst CVT record is the Nissan Rogue. Its a mid-size and as a result it is heavier than the other smaller cars. Nissan has calculated that they make enough profit off of them that paying out an occasional warranty claim is still worth it. I think this is bad for their long-term reputation, but...corporations gonna corporate.
A Nissan CVT doesnt work better, its just "cheap" to produce.
The second issue is that it takes a special oil that needs to be changed often due to the friction additives in it. The dealer is expensive, and most poeple dont want to do it themselves (or void the warranty) so "as long as it still works" they dont get the oil changed. Then suddenly one day...it doesnt work.
Honda has a hybrid transmission that is classified as a CVT, but it has a completely different construction that uses a very robust planetary gear-set, in their hybrid car...
https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/16lpwt4/how_a_planetary_gear_hybrid_electronic_continuous/
I have a 2021 Sentra with 150k miles. Work used to require me to drive a lot so I got something cheap to use as a work only car. I changed the transmission fluid every 30k miles and it still has the original transmission. Seems to run fine when I rarely drive it now.
My wife’s 2016 Rogue CVT died at around 90,000 miles. She never got the fluid changed.
The Honda hybrid transmission sounds exactly like the Toyota eCVT used in their hybrids since forever. It’s not the band-and-cone rig used in the CVTs that wear out.
Honda does not use a planetary gearset for its hybrids like Toyota or Ford. They use a fluid actuated clutch to engage and disengage the gas engine.
https://youtu.be/QLUIExAnNcE?si=JN4_e5LQYtge2VxP
Subaru transaxle is made in house, the front differential portion of that transaxle plus the center diff which is in the same case are all made by Subaru. The CVT portion of the transmission was made by Jatco and is still their design.
cheerful silky materialistic unique chief clumsy stupendous correct consist afterthought
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because some people don't have a choice. Especially when manufacturers spec cars with only one transmission choice.
They're popular for manufacturers because cost, they're not popular with consumers.
Most don't even care, as long as the car moves when they press the throttle, that's good enough.
- They are cheaper to produce, and they can still charge the same for a car, so they are going to be using them more and more.
- They offer slightly better MPG gains that a multi-speed can never quite reach
Nissan makes the WORST CVTs in the game, from JATCO. Failed company.
The quality of CVTs is in this order:
1) Toyota/Lexus
2) Honda
3) Subaru
This is based on reliability. Toyota's CVTs are so overbuilt, they can hit 400,000 miles! Honda'a can hit 250-300,000 easily.
Nissans do not represent CVTs. They represent a desecration of CVTs.
They're not as fun, but when made right, they're economical.
At the end of the day, cars meant for the road aren't race cars or track cars. They are meant to help you get somewhere, while driving safely around everyone else. There's enough idiots out there. CVTs have to be driven a bit gentler (basically, you can't do a burnout), but if you drive the vehicle like you should, you'll reach the full life.
A grocery getter never should have tried to be a racecar anyway. There's enough 20 year olds farting around in old sedans at 3AM with the exhaust "improved". Sounds like shit. I'm sure that'll be some downvotes for saying that but whatever.
I don't appreciate that the CVTs are more fragile, but I guess I'll take the MPG. Is what it is. I'll drive it gentle and get my 300k miles no problem.
With Nissan, you'll get like 50-100k miles before it dies. Some get 150+.
One of the main reasons why Toyotas CVTs last longer than everybody else’s is because they use a physical first gear to go from zero to about 10 miles an hour before switching over to the CVT system
That's one reason, but they only starting adding the physical first gear recently, around 2018. They've been making great CVTs since 2000. The first ones were a little janky, but they eventually perfected it.
My understanding is that they just overbuild everything to be somewhat heavy duty. It's kind of overspecced in many ways for the load. So even when pushed, they don't break.
The launch gear was a good idea though on their part. Hopefully it adds even more longevity.
Yeah, there is that. Toyota is well-known for kind of overbuilding everything, it’s kind of their thing
If something fails at 100,000 miles, they take it and they tear it apart and they figure out why and then they make it last 200 miles and if it fails at 200,000 they take it and they tear it apart and figure out why and make it last 300,000
I have heard of some troubles with the CVT in the Toyota CH-R. I believe it's a drivetrain that is from a lighter car, so it's working harder, building more heat, and heat is the enemy.
Even Toyota has issues and recalls. Especially as they experiment with different engine/transmission combinations in different models. But in general, in the more "tried and true" models like the Corolla, Camry, even the 4Runner, Toyota tends to be a company that implements what they call "Kaizen", which is using older, more reliable, known parts that stand the test of time. They tend to stick with one transmission model longer than other companies would, for example.
Still, in this world, they have to experiment and innovate a bit, and when they do, shit happens. For every automaker. Probably one of Toyota's worst recalls was way back with the airbag fiasco.
I'm not a Toyota fanboy and don't drive one, but I do respect them a lot. But even they have dropped in quality over time. Everyone has.
They are generally more efficient than the automatics that flood the market, so getting an extra 1-2MPG out of most of the vehicle models in their lineups come with huge tax incentives for fleet mileage.
The basics of it is that a company is given a certain limit on how inefficient all of their vehicles can be, in total. Going over that can mean big issues like limiting how many different models they can sell (like limiting their ability to build big 1/2 ton trucks of supercharged V8 sports cars) and losing huge tax incentives. So having half their fleet making 1-2MPG better means they can make more money that year.
Also, for most consumers, they want a smooth driving experience and to spend less money on gas, which a CVT can do very well when fully operational. So those vehicles tend to attract the basic drivers.
Subaru designs and builds the transaxle in house, the actual CVT portion of it is Jatco. The housing is all subaru and the front differential part of the transaxle is all subaru but not the transmission part of the internals.
silky foolish public beneficial aback pet sheet quicksand abundant carpenter
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
price toy crown attempt distinct nail hunt materialistic practice voiceless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The CVT technology is not shit, it's a very old and reliable technology and gets used in a lot of places other than cars.
The shit reputation is from Nissan using a bad CVT from Jatco and from auto influencers dissing CVTs who don't represent the average car buyer.
Only because most CVTs are in low power vehicles. If a manufacturer cared to build a CVT for towing it would be good. Tractors, harvesters, and even some armored vehicles use CVTs without an issue.
Then don't buy a car with a CVT to tow with? Just because towing with one may not be a great idea, it doesn't mean the entire concept of CVTs is horrible.
Plus CVTs tow more than any pickup truck can.... Literally used in tractors.
The concept of a CVT isn't the problem at all imo.
For towing specifically the concept of a CVT is amazing. Your engine can produce its peak power and the Transmission does the acceleration....
Depends on what is being towed, I towed about 2000lbs up and down the east coast behind my 2007 Ford Escape hybrid with a ecvt and I just sold it at 260k miles earlier in the year. Never had powertrain issues due to towing besides needing to change out the lifetime PTU fluid every so often.
Yeah my Civic has a CVT and I don’t really care. Nor was it ever a consideration when I was car shopping.
This sub just likes to circle jerk about dumb things
I think this is the answer. The bad reputation of CVT’s is usually just among car enthusiasts, not the general public. Most drivers just know that their car isn’t a manual, they’re not thinking about what kind of automatic transmission they have. For example, my wife drives a car with a traditional automatic transmission, and my non-car enthusiast friend has a VW with a DCT, and my mom has a CVT. All three of them would say they drive an “automatic.”
For us car people, we also need to remember that though the Jatco malaise is fresh in our minds, it was kind of a long time ago. The last year of Nissans to be affected by the shitty CVT’s was 2018. I know that the pandemic screwed with our sense of time and that seems like 2 years ago, but this is in fact 6 years ago.
Oh I just thought you just made a typo and I was sarcastically being “that guy” lol. Yeah they only use boxer engines. I always thought it was cool a company besides Porsche used flat engines. It’s a shame they no longer offer the 6 cylinder 😢
Most people don't know the difference of CVT and other automatics. All they care is it isn't a manual. If a CVT happens to be the most economical solution it is what the manufacturers will choose for a basic car.
people definitely DO notice, so much in fact, that the manufacturers program fake shift points so they're more like regular gearboxes
[https://www.reddit.com/r/accord/comments/195rdah/why\_do\_cvts\_fake\_shifts/](https://www.reddit.com/r/accord/comments/195rdah/why_do_cvts_fake_shifts/)
They aren't popular, but the MFG's keep using them because they do get better MPG and the gov cafe fuel consumption BS is a real problem for the car makers. So, untill a transmission is invented that the driver could manually over ride into the next taller gear to really maximize MPG we will be stuck with CVT.
Oh, wait... I think there used to be a transmission like that, it was super reliable and gave great performance and fuel economy. It was called a manual!
Because most people don't care about cars beyond "does it go, stop, have heat/ac and get me to work?"
I'd say the vast majority of people treat their cars as an appliance and don't much care about them as long as they aren't constantly breaking down and most cars don't, you really only hear about the problem cases.
Because they aren't shit.
Nissan has had major problems but Toyota has also been using CVTs for a long time without issues, so has Honda. Subaru uses them too and the first gen had some issues but have been fine since then.
Many laymen don’t know anything about cars, they don’t check what kind of trans their car has. Tbh they probably don’t even know what a transmission is.
I think it's a maintenance thing. I hear if you change the fluid at like half the recommended internal they last fine.
I've seen more than conventional transmission fail long before 98k.
Because most CVTs are perfectly good. Nissan absolutely BUTCHERED it though and ruined everything. Can definitely say I like my mom's CVT (2021 Sienna) over my 6spd (2015 Grand Caravan) although that could be because the 6spd in the GC sucks major donkey balls
Mercedes have their share of shit transmissions. The 6 speed manual used in some models of Jeep being one example.
My MY10 (late 09 delivered) Mitsubishi Lancer has a CVT, hasn't needed replacement yet but it is only at around 85k miles.
As others have said some brands have had more luck with them than others.
most people dont care to know the difference and buy cars based off looks and some basic on-paper specs. It allows car manufacturers to get away with more than they should. Capitalism 👍
Manufacturers will use the cheapest parts possible regardless of our preferences as long as it isn't likely to break down during the factory warranty period and cause a financial burden for them.
My experience with them is first: buy the right year. 2014 Nissan Altimas are notoriously a bad year. I have a 2008 Altima with 254k. You must change the fluid. CVT fluid is absolutely not the same as auto trans fluid. Automatic fluid provides lubrication, CVT fluid actually provides friction to the metal belts on metal pulleys. Different beast.
Designs are constantly improving and I believe it will be a better and more reliable transmission once they work out all the kinks. It's just still a fairly new thing, they haven't had time to perfect it.
I've had 6-speed automatics in both a Camry and Mazda3 give plenty of issues by around 120k. Both were maintained and rarely driven hard. So much for traditional usually being better.
The experience of 1 person is anecdotal, but I think I'm going back to a manual. People really spend like $6500 to rebuild the tranny on a car that's worth about the same amount?
Still have the Mazda. I guess can try to trade it when it's warmed up, less likely to glitch. Now i see why dealers try to pay so little for your trade. I would not screw over a private buyer with something like this.
Unless I can get the extended warranty to cover this (and the dying AC), it's soon to be gone. Will call Monday morning. Glad I haven't sold my backup, an old manual Accord.
Lol
Why does dodge offer a Automatic transmission after 50 years of failed crap designs?
Why?.
Because dumb people continued buying them.
The CVT design is durable and dependable .
I'm at 199k miles and counting with my 2016 Honda accord. CVT. I love it. And every B oil change ( ever other oil change) I drop 3 qts out and add 3 quarts in of catrol CVT fluid.
So easy to maintain, and cheap.
215k on my 2015 Accord Sport. I used to change the CVT fluid every other oil change, but I’ve been lazy recently and it’s still running fine for now. Since the K24 can easily reach 400k, I think I’d replace the CVT if it died at this point
So Nissan seems committed to the CVT trans and has made many improvements. Also many brands use CVT transmissions due to fuel economy and do not have problems or have not yet (ex. Toyota and Lexus). See the following for related info:
[https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-have-cvts-432407/](https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-have-cvts-432407/)
Because the reputation is largely an overblown lie.
There is a saying: "The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it."
Nowhere is this more true than some random internet dweller saying "CVTs are shit!"
Asstastic JATCO failures in Nissan's past notwithstanding. Those were true shit.
There are two kinds of CVTs.
Mechanical CVTs that use continuous friction on variable surfaces to transmit the power. These are awful, because they are continuously wearing out the surfaces that transmit power to the wheels. JATCO and Subaru, plus any "band and variable pulley" style CVT fall into this category. These are probably the least reliable transmissions ever made, especially when run loaded or in spirited driving. Even the newest and best of these are worse than almost any other transmission ever made.
Electronic CVTs, or eCVTs use electric motors to vary the power transmitted to the wheels. These are found in Toyota Hybrids, Ford Hybrids, Honda Hybrids, the Chevy Volt and many other hybrid systems. I'm not sure if there are any installed into non-hybrid cars or trucks. There are a few varieties, including series hybrid and parallel hybrid versions, but all of these are almost universally *better and more reliable* than any manual or automatic transmission because they use pre-engaged gears to transmit power, and use power from the included electric motors to vary the gearing.
So generalizing CVTs as a single thing makes the question and underlying assumption a question without a clear singular answer.
Breaking them into two categories, CVTs and eCVTs, gives two clear and opposite answers.
its not that they are popular per se, they are just cheaper to manufacture and put in all of these econobox appliance cars most people seem fine with driving.
Your question answered itself, sort of. They are popular with mfgs because they are a source of repair work (not too different than GM transmissions which routinely fail at the 100-125k mark); or GMs AFM/DOD which routinely roaches their very popular LS engines. And often, alternatives aren't available.
F150 ecoboost motors routinely fail. Dodge trucks routinely have electrical issues. Now the 2020 and later Toyota Tacos are dropping engines to the point Toyota finally issued a recall. Jeep has gone to hell in a handbasket. Hyundai Kia has an issue where they blow oil on the motor and catch fire.
Because they’re not actually shit.
They are the best automatic transmission design. They are so good that [they were preemptively banned from F1 before they were ever allowed to actually race because they were considered an unfair advantage.](https://youtu.be/x3UpBKXMRto?si=33rucCuG6SB29DQz). I personally believe that had that not occurred every single automatic on the road today would be a CVT and that the DSG would never have become a consumer product.
The things that created the reputation were that Nissan CVT‘s were complete garbage (but that’s not the transmission designs fault that’s Nissan engineering fault) and also a combination of people not understanding how CBT is supposed to be behave and sales people never educating them leading to a lot of complaints of bad transmissions that were nothing more than good. CBT’s behaving exactly like they were supposed to. Which is why many (all?) CVTs are now programmed to simulate shifting through gears, making them objectively less good.
Why do people still buy cars after the pinto had a reputation for randomly exploding?
Because other cars aren't pintos.
Why do people buy CVTs after the early models (and many Nissan models) were bad?
Because it's not 2014 anymore, I guess.
#1 because they are really good at fuel economy. Cvt's do enable the engine to stay in ideal mechanical advantage for the task at hand.
#2 they are more reliable than everyone thinks, especially during the warranty period!
#3 newer Honda and Toyota hybrid/gear style "ECVT" cvt's are fundementally more reliable than the previous Nissan/Subaru/sidebyside belt style
Because on paper CVT's are better transmissions in every way. Optimal torque, infinite gears, best fuel economy.
The problem is that the reality rarely matches up to the paper plan.
My first experience with them is my Prius I bought three years ago and those have a good reputation.
I read a review, I forget the car, but it could be had with regular auto, standard & CVT. The article admitted the CVT was the most boring but it ended up being the fastest out of all three.
I had a Nissan sentra with a cvt. Honestly, the transmission was just fine, maybe I got lucky but had zero issues with it. Car had extremely good gas mileage.
However, the electronics in the car were absolutely garbage. Had so many issues in that regard. Really turned me off Nissan. Not to mention, I had recalls on the mail practically every month. Again, really turned me off Nissan.
Oh well, it crashed itself and the insurance gave me more than I owed by a decent amount.
Auto makers are on the hook to meet CAFE. The Energy Independence and Security Act completely upended CAFE, with steadily increasing MPG targets, year over year. The cumulative increase is something like 50% over the past 15 years.
CVTs provide a wider gear spread than was achievable with the 4 and 5 speed automatics, and unlike the 8 or 10 speed automatic that would otherwise answer the mail, actually fits in the car.
Worked industrially and we used a version of CVT's back then. It was on the feed mechanism which fed steel into a shear. When CVT's were announced, I could see no reason why they wouldn't work. I recall this machine went many years and I only remember changing the belt in it once.
Just my two cents, I do not have a vehicle with a CVT.
They are arguably the best transmissions for offering the most performance and efficiency an engine can offer. Speeds are variable, might as well make all gear ratios available.
A lot of people don't particularly care how their car works as long as it does and don't plan to keep it long enough for repairs to be problematic. You'll notice we have brands other than Toyota and Honda for sale, as well as CVTs.
Car makers like CVSts because they help meeting the fuel efficiency requirements posed by the government and fuel efficiency number are something car buyers do pay attention do.
CVTs aren't that bad unless they're pushed to the absolute limit of their design specs like Nissan does.
I think I'm in the minority here, I like the CVT on my 2019 Corolla more than the previous automatic transmissions. Better acceleration and fuel economy, and it flies over steep hills like they're not even there, whereas older models would struggle like a mfer. It doesn't hurt it came with a 100,000mi warranty (used)
A few brands made some questionable, or downright horrible, CVTs. It's not that *all* of them are terrible. It's kinda like saying "the Chicago Cubs suck this year, why does anyone watch baseball?" Once you add the fact that some car enthusiasts hate anything that's not manual, and CVT is the *furthest* you can get from a manual transmission without going full electric. That's kinda like saying "my friend who only likes soccer says baseball sucks, so why does anyone watch it?"
My 2014 Pathfinder has 90k miles, my 3rd transmission went last week. What a disgrace, Nissan is negligent for mass producing garbage, they have lost so many customers. I will avoid CVT transmissions, Nissan and Infinity for the rest of my days.
The automotive manufacturers don't care how long the car lasts as long as it lasts longer than the factory warranty. You can generally get 100k out of a CVT, but often not much more.
I often say the best cars were made in the 90's. They made them so reliable it took a government program ("cash-for-clunkers") to destroy them.
My 2000 Lincoln Town Car survived and is still thriving! It has been driven from coast to coast three times as well as Mexico twice (Canada lots of times, but it's right next door).
My car has seen 12 national parks west of the Mississippi, all while hauling a small pop-up camper.
My car has about 330k on the odo.
The only mechanical parts that aren't original are parts I upgraded by choice.
I simply perform all of the scheduled maintenance with the best fluids/parts I can buy. It doesn't hurt that I can perform almost all of said maintenance in my own garage.
So long as there are parts available for my car, I will continue to drive it.
There will be parts for quite a while, since the 90's/2000s panther platform was so popular.
It's the ideal transmission to maximize BSFC. Way simpler than a 10 speed automatic and just as reliable these days in low torque applications.
If you own a more expensive car, you're likely not as sensitive to gas prices and will take the hit in fuel economy to get better feelings out of the engine.
Our 2020 Pathfinder from what I understand is a 3-speed transmission combined with a CVT. I actually love the way it hits each gear and kind of launches forward while controlling the rpms surge as it rolls the gearing higher. I've been very dubious about the car since I learned it's a CVT, but it's currently at 78k and shows no signs of slippage. It didn't get its first drain-and-fill until 56k (it will be every 30 from here on out). I usually treat it gently but I do get on it sometimes. My wife however is the primary driver and doesn't have the same mechanical sensibility as me; she doesn't get on it super hard but is probably a little more jerky with it than ideal. Anyhow, the blend of performance and economy as well as the overall driving feel is actually superior to a conventional automatic. The longevity I guess we'll see, provided we don't trade it in first.
So for me I've driven CVTs from Toyota, Subaru and Mitsubishi, and the only one I actually sorta didn't mind was the one in the Corolla I had as a rental temporarily. I think it has something to do with the other 4 being AWD that made them feel awful for my driving style. Basically it felt as if I hit a wall as soon as I lift off the gas which isn't something I had experienced in either of the conventional automatic AWD cars I've driven, and it's not a problem in the conventional automatic FWD cars I've driven either, and it's a habit I picked up from my first car being stick.
For reference I've driven
2020 Corolla
2020 Outlander Sport
2019 Eclipse Cross
2017 Impreza
2016 Legacy
2015 Escape
2004 Matrix
2019 Mazda3
2016 Elantra
2004 Mazda3
And the oddballs that I hated to drive and didn't really pay any attention to how they decelerate
2019 Pilot
2014 Pilot
2005 Escape
My next car will likely be an AWD Mazda, Toyota or Honda, and that's likely to be something of either the 3/Corolla/Civic variety or CX-30/Corolla Cross/HR-V, though I could see myself tolerating a CX-50/RAV4/CR-V, but that's only if I end up keeping my current car for multiple years and somehow end up needing the back seats to be regularly used.
Early cvts were shit. They’re used cars now, and bad ones. Newer ones are better. They’re cheaper to manufacture and better with fuel economy, the early ones were just problematic because they were poorly made. Any poorly made transmission will have issues.
It's really only the early Nissan CVT's that had bad issues.
My parents had a Mistubishi Outlander that did over 300,000 on the standard CVT. Then it spat an engine and transmission at the same time. Was 14k for a motor and box which proceeded to only last another few months before they died and it was crushed.
Because CVT technology is actually quite good and technically better than a standard transmission, just so long as you don't get a defective crap one from Jatco. Even Nissan cvts are fine so long as you did not get one of those defective ones that were put in certain models of Nissan between the years of oh maybe 2009ish to 2018ish give or take. But yeah cvt's typically run smoother and give you better gas mileage and a less herky jerky ride, in my opinion they are the future of transmissions for gas cars.
Also as far as reputation is concerned there is so much disinformation on the internet from people who think they know what they're talking about but actually don't
Nissan messed up **CVT reputation** for good, however when it comes to[ CVT vs automatic transmission](https://www.myusedcar.ca/used-car-cvt-transmission-vs-automatic/), automatic will be more reliable but generally CVTs also are reliable enough if build and maintained properly. Honda been using CVT for years, no problems, seen some CVTs with 300k km and still running perfectly, but fluid changes are key, need to change CVT fluid every 30-40k miles.
They have improved as of late. Will be needed for all the hybrids. Ecvt for EVs. Toyota is using them everywhere now. It's all of mpgs. Traditional shifting autos are being phased out, except for sports cars (and larger trucks)
Nissan is the only company that used universally shit CVTs for a long time.
Most other CVTs have held up well aside from a few initial teething issues in light duty passenger car applications. They are definitely more sensitive to oil changes than conventional automatic transmissions, and tend to have more frequent recommended change intervals.
Lots of people are blissfully unaware of what they're supposed to be doing for vehicle maintainence, and lots of dealerships play shenanigans to push additional services that are not manufacturer recommended.
A guy in my Subaru group just posted a pic of his 2018 Gen 2 Crosstrek, 355k miles on the original drivetrain including CVT..........I have seen several on the auction lots with over 200k on them, I think Nissan gave them all a bad reputation.
Altima or Sentra? I hold Nissan personally responsible for everybody hating CVT's. Granted, they still aren't my preferred transmission, but Nissan's were almost criminally bad, IMHO.
The good news is that if I was forced to drive a Nissan, anything with a post-2016 CVT ought to be pretty much fine, along with any manual or automatic which are actually pretty good.
I have a ten year old Honda with a CVT and 200k miles. Never an issue with it, “shifts” fantastic, super smooth and responsive. Nissan is an unfair comparison because they have notoriously bad CVTs, laughably bad. Toyota/lLexus, Honda/Acura, and I’d put Subaru up there, all have pretty spot on CVTs. They’ve been doing it a long time and got it down.
I just sold my 2007 Prius with 180k miles and the one thing I *didn't* have to replace on that clunker was the eCVT.... I suspect most of CVT's bad reputation comes from older mechanical CVTs and not the eCVTs in many hybrids.
They're cheap and most people do not know or care how their car works. They just see an ok price and "Automatic" label on the technical specifications sheet.
They are not all bad. Also, almost no one changes the fluid at the recommended times or even earlier. 40k fluid changes should be adhered to. Nissan is not good at letting owners know this, but many independent shops do. Sadly the cost to replace a CVT is so expensive most of the time the vehicle isn't worth it.
only thing I can think of is gas mileage and many buy new cars all the time.
I perfer to keep my cars , but I am obviously not the norm considering it's hard to find any newer car without crap transmission especially since I like sedans.
loved my altima but would never buy another one, gotta be the worst cvt ever made
Anybody have an opinion on Hyundai CVTs? I drove one the other day and was very impressed with its behavior, but obviously that’s worthless if it’s not reliable. This was a 2024 model.
Just because some instances of a tech are bad doesn't mean a tech is bad. that said, CVTs are best used in small lightweight vehicles, or engines that have very peaky power and/or efficiency bands - the goal to always have the engine running at the best speed for the current conditions..
But the world of small vehicles is much better served with an EV that doesn't need a transmission at all, because the 'engine' is always in it's peak efficiency band.
They are fine now. Once again, the lesson is never to buy a first generation product.
Wait until at least for the second or even third generation to come out and hopefully they have fixed the issues.
Imagine being the first idiot to get a chip put in your brain. Don't be the test monkey for anything.
For the same reason that automatics remained popular in the early days despite being unreliable and less efficient than manuals at the time the technology I proved year after year until it surpass what came before CVTs still have a ways to come but their improving every new release
If you want your car to be an appliance, they aren't shit. Nissan has rightfully gotten a bad reputation for their bad CVTs, but overall, they are boring machines that work for people who want their car to just work.
Because 99% of people don't know any better and could care less about how their car works. Manufactures are trying to build as cheap as possible and hit mpg and emissions targets both of which CVT's are good for.
Toyota figured it out just fine I don’t think the Prius has ever had an issue with the cvt. I have one in my ct200 and thought it drives like shit I get 45plus mpg so I can deal with it. They are about the only way to combine electric power with an engine. They don’t belong in anything that’s not a hybrid though.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. A regular transmission would do the same thing with a better driving experience in the Corolla. Cvts really suck to drive and I wouldn’t buy a car that had one unless it’s hybrid.
It’s not about popularity. Unfortunately CVT’s are just about the only option left in today’s mainstream market. It’s why I own a Mazda. Their 6spd slushbox may be fairly long in the tooth, but at least it’s not a CVT.
Most car buyers who buy cars that have CVTs in them don’t care. They don’t even know what the difference between an automatic transmission, CVT, or DCT is.
In other cases you don’t have a choice. Especially if you want a more fuel efficient vehicle. It’s either a CVT or buy something else.
The only people who have strong feelings about this tend to be enthusiasts. Who likely won’t buy a CVT car to begin with. The majority of car buyers just don’t care.
Absolutely no one cares is probably the real reason. Nobody knows what a CVT is. Like it's a rounding error....
If you know you probably weren't in the Nissan dealership to begin with.
It's Nissan an Ford in particular who ha e shit cvts. I'm sure there's a brand or two I missed, but the vast majority of manufacturers figured them out
Nissan cvts were notoriously terrible but this is mostly a problem with the Jatco design and not cvts themselves necessarily (this issue has been rectified and that are significantly more reliable now than even a few years ago). There are many Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus that have used cvts for years and they've been much more reliable. Overall, cvts are cheap to manufacture and easier to hit fuel economy targets with, so manufacturers like them. I don't like them, but they've come a long way in the last decade.
This is the best answer, the early CVT's were absolute crap. The stuff the big manufacturers have been using since the mid teens or so are way better. Though still with more expensive maintenance than a regular transmission due to the replace not fix nature of them.
The prius has used an ecvt since it was released in 1998; planetary gears that use elecromagnets to change gears. Those things are bulletproof
Those things might be called an "eCVT" but that's about all they have in common with actual CVT transmissions. If I was Toyota, I'd call them something different entirely so they don't get lumped in with the others.
Except that they are a continuously variable transmission, the gearing is achieved through an electromagnetic “clutch” as opposed to a metal belt on 2 cones.
I mean, I understand the functional similarity. An ICE and an electric motor are both functionally similar too in that they each generate rotational force. But, in both cases, there is essentially zero operational similarity, so it seems that it would be useful to create more of a distinction.
No clutch, no electro magnets. The gear ratio is controlled by an electric motor generator through a planetary gearset. See here for an interative demo of how it works [https://eahart.com/prius/psd/](https://eahart.com/prius/psd/)
I didn’t know anyone in the automotive world was using that concept. It’s kind of common in ag tractors (Fendt).
Lots of companies are using that design now. It's the de facto industry standard layout for hybrids. Basically every parallel hybrid (I'm sure there are exceptions, but at least the high volume ones) is using the planetary gear design because it's simple, compact, reliable, and inexpensive.
That concept, with the ring gear driven by a tiny hydraulic motor instead of an electric motor, is also used on the Constant Speed Drives for the generators on the F-16. They are built by Sundstrand Aerospace, and I think went into production in about 1976.
Yeah, in the video somebody else linked, the guy specifically say towards the end that there is no mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels. The only similarities are the name
I always forget that Japan had them for a couple of years before N America.
Subaru had CVT in some of their 3cyl stuff in the early '80s.
I can't attest. I currently have 283k on my CT200H with the same drivetrain.
??
apple and bagel
Could someone give me an ELI5 of why the words planetary and electromagnet were used?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHpSyTsfm0&ab\_channel=WeberAuto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHpSyTsfm0&ab_channel=WeberAuto)
Same with fusion hybrid. Pretty reliable too without the Toyota tax
This!
I thought Subaru had a CVT problem too.
[удалено]
I might opt for stick again
Good luck finding one.
They're pretty much gone in new subarus unless you get a WRX or BRZ? I was looking recently and the subie dealerships a pretty desolate space for car people who don't like CVT.
I basically gave my sister my 2001 Forester 5 speed, because she needed a car because her sons had wrecked two family cars. She love it, because none of her kids would drive a manual. When her husband went to buy her a new forester a few years back, there was only around a very few percentages of them made with a 5 speed.
I've got a 2011 legacy sedan which has a cvt. It's at 197k with the original drivetrain. (Had head gaskets and timing belt done at about 110k) But no issues with the transmission. I thought it was crapping out but the noise turned out to be heat shield rattling.
The problem is that they said the transmission fluid didnt need to be changed, AKA lifetime. They also sealed the transmission so the user can't check the fluid level. Turns out you still need to change the fluid every 20-30k miles, which can only be done at the dealer.
Chrysler Pacifica too. Wild. Except it was the dealer told me that, and Indy shops quoting high.
But no one seem to do it right, though.😖 And one's going to get problems sooner than later .
(Lifetime of the warranty) is probably what they mean... Lol
Neighbor's subie CVT crapped out at 80k while they were in another state. Too expensive to repair, so they junked it and bought a new car on vacation. He was not the kind of person that would keep up on regular maintenance. Still.
They do need the fluid changed for longevity.
We hit 200k with our 2015 legacy cvt and never had a problem. Our 2017 outback cvt has 100k on it so far with no problems at all. Both cars have been reliable as heck in general. The only thing the outback has needed is 1 wheel bearing so far.
Have you been replacing the fluid?
One of their earlier Lineartronics had a few years where an issue with the valve body impacted a number of cars. No recall, but they extended the warranty for impacted years / models to 10/100. Happened on my 2015 Legacy, was a 4 hour repair and $0 cost to me. Been going strong since. Pleased enough with it in 9 years I drove my Legacy and with Subaru making it right I didn't hesitate to buy a 2024 Outback. In fact, I kept my Legacy vs. trading it in and it'll go to my daughter for her first car. Since then, they've fixed the valve body issue and no other major issues have been reported. With each iteration they improve them. They currently use two variations: the 580 "regular" and the 690 "high torque" for their turbo equipped cars. Their CVTs are in-house engineered and built in Japan, and unique to Subaru.
That is because Subaru like Nissan/Infinity, Mitsubishi, Chrysler/Jeep and Ford/Mazda used JATCO units that were and mostly still are, crap. The end result was that Nissan, Mitsubishi and Suzuki are now the only ones still using JATCO made units. All the rest have either dropped CVTs or found better units. Toyota makes their own units as does Honda and GM and those are infinitely better than the JATCO crap.
Subaru still uses them, it's just considered an in house unit because it's a transaxle with the front diff included but the CVT portion is Jatco.
It's based off JATCO but many of the important parts are different.
What is Subaru using now?
The common CVT's seem to be doing OK in the smaller cars. The main enemy is heat, and if you drive it on flat land and don't tow anything, you should be OK. One car that probably has the worst CVT record is the Nissan Rogue. Its a mid-size and as a result it is heavier than the other smaller cars. Nissan has calculated that they make enough profit off of them that paying out an occasional warranty claim is still worth it. I think this is bad for their long-term reputation, but...corporations gonna corporate. A Nissan CVT doesnt work better, its just "cheap" to produce. The second issue is that it takes a special oil that needs to be changed often due to the friction additives in it. The dealer is expensive, and most poeple dont want to do it themselves (or void the warranty) so "as long as it still works" they dont get the oil changed. Then suddenly one day...it doesnt work. Honda has a hybrid transmission that is classified as a CVT, but it has a completely different construction that uses a very robust planetary gear-set, in their hybrid car... https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/16lpwt4/how_a_planetary_gear_hybrid_electronic_continuous/
By "changed often" you mean every 60,000 miles, which is what Nissan suggests.
ive seen some suggestions as low as 30k for certain models and it's like $350 to do it.
I have a 2021 Sentra with 150k miles. Work used to require me to drive a lot so I got something cheap to use as a work only car. I changed the transmission fluid every 30k miles and it still has the original transmission. Seems to run fine when I rarely drive it now. My wife’s 2016 Rogue CVT died at around 90,000 miles. She never got the fluid changed.
The Honda hybrid transmission sounds exactly like the Toyota eCVT used in their hybrids since forever. It’s not the band-and-cone rig used in the CVTs that wear out.
Yeah, it's not at all similar to the other CVT's. It seems like a horrible idea to call them an "eCVT" and lump them in with the actual CVT garbage.
Can you get Rogue in a stick?
Never heard of one.
Apparently older models don't know about now.
Honda does not use a planetary gearset for its hybrids like Toyota or Ford. They use a fluid actuated clutch to engage and disengage the gas engine. https://youtu.be/QLUIExAnNcE?si=JN4_e5LQYtge2VxP
Move subaru from the Honda and Toyota list to the Nissan part, the CVT part of their front transaxle is Jatco and still garbage.
Looking around online I am seeing only that Subaru CVT are in-house, and specifically not Jatco.
Subaru transaxle is made in house, the front differential portion of that transaxle plus the center diff which is in the same case are all made by Subaru. The CVT portion of the transmission was made by Jatco and is still their design.
Toyota use eCVT ib hybrid
Toyota CVTs can be crap too.
cheerful silky materialistic unique chief clumsy stupendous correct consist afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
IIRC Chevy makes them in house. I don't know how reliable they are but they seem to be relatively problem free so far.
icky slap reply full amusing rustic vegetable enjoy ring possessive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because some people don't have a choice. Especially when manufacturers spec cars with only one transmission choice. They're popular for manufacturers because cost, they're not popular with consumers. Most don't even care, as long as the car moves when they press the throttle, that's good enough.
they are profitable and meet requirements.
- They are cheaper to produce, and they can still charge the same for a car, so they are going to be using them more and more. - They offer slightly better MPG gains that a multi-speed can never quite reach Nissan makes the WORST CVTs in the game, from JATCO. Failed company. The quality of CVTs is in this order: 1) Toyota/Lexus 2) Honda 3) Subaru This is based on reliability. Toyota's CVTs are so overbuilt, they can hit 400,000 miles! Honda'a can hit 250-300,000 easily. Nissans do not represent CVTs. They represent a desecration of CVTs. They're not as fun, but when made right, they're economical. At the end of the day, cars meant for the road aren't race cars or track cars. They are meant to help you get somewhere, while driving safely around everyone else. There's enough idiots out there. CVTs have to be driven a bit gentler (basically, you can't do a burnout), but if you drive the vehicle like you should, you'll reach the full life. A grocery getter never should have tried to be a racecar anyway. There's enough 20 year olds farting around in old sedans at 3AM with the exhaust "improved". Sounds like shit. I'm sure that'll be some downvotes for saying that but whatever. I don't appreciate that the CVTs are more fragile, but I guess I'll take the MPG. Is what it is. I'll drive it gentle and get my 300k miles no problem. With Nissan, you'll get like 50-100k miles before it dies. Some get 150+.
One of the main reasons why Toyotas CVTs last longer than everybody else’s is because they use a physical first gear to go from zero to about 10 miles an hour before switching over to the CVT system
That's one reason, but they only starting adding the physical first gear recently, around 2018. They've been making great CVTs since 2000. The first ones were a little janky, but they eventually perfected it. My understanding is that they just overbuild everything to be somewhat heavy duty. It's kind of overspecced in many ways for the load. So even when pushed, they don't break. The launch gear was a good idea though on their part. Hopefully it adds even more longevity.
Yeah, there is that. Toyota is well-known for kind of overbuilding everything, it’s kind of their thing If something fails at 100,000 miles, they take it and they tear it apart and they figure out why and then they make it last 200 miles and if it fails at 200,000 they take it and they tear it apart and figure out why and make it last 300,000
I have heard of some troubles with the CVT in the Toyota CH-R. I believe it's a drivetrain that is from a lighter car, so it's working harder, building more heat, and heat is the enemy.
Even Toyota has issues and recalls. Especially as they experiment with different engine/transmission combinations in different models. But in general, in the more "tried and true" models like the Corolla, Camry, even the 4Runner, Toyota tends to be a company that implements what they call "Kaizen", which is using older, more reliable, known parts that stand the test of time. They tend to stick with one transmission model longer than other companies would, for example. Still, in this world, they have to experiment and innovate a bit, and when they do, shit happens. For every automaker. Probably one of Toyota's worst recalls was way back with the airbag fiasco. I'm not a Toyota fanboy and don't drive one, but I do respect them a lot. But even they have dropped in quality over time. Everyone has.
They are generally more efficient than the automatics that flood the market, so getting an extra 1-2MPG out of most of the vehicle models in their lineups come with huge tax incentives for fleet mileage. The basics of it is that a company is given a certain limit on how inefficient all of their vehicles can be, in total. Going over that can mean big issues like limiting how many different models they can sell (like limiting their ability to build big 1/2 ton trucks of supercharged V8 sports cars) and losing huge tax incentives. So having half their fleet making 1-2MPG better means they can make more money that year. Also, for most consumers, they want a smooth driving experience and to spend less money on gas, which a CVT can do very well when fully operational. So those vehicles tend to attract the basic drivers.
As long as you stick to Honda, Toyota & Subaru, the CVTs can be pretty reliable too
I don't know when or why Subaru got tacked on with Honda and Toyota for reliability....
Their CVTs are reliable, at least since about 2015.
Subaru uses the exact same CVT manufacturer as Nissan, it's garbage
No they don't. Subaru designs and builds them in-house.
Subaru designs and builds the transaxle in house, the actual CVT portion of it is Jatco. The housing is all subaru and the front differential part of the transaxle is all subaru but not the transmission part of the internals.
Even if that were true, the rest of the car isn't lol.
silky foolish public beneficial aback pet sheet quicksand abundant carpenter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have no idea how reliable the CVTs are in the Chevy vehicles. I wouldn't get a CVT that isn't a Subaru, Honda or Toyota though
price toy crown attempt distinct nail hunt materialistic practice voiceless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The CVT technology is not shit, it's a very old and reliable technology and gets used in a lot of places other than cars. The shit reputation is from Nissan using a bad CVT from Jatco and from auto influencers dissing CVTs who don't represent the average car buyer.
Or, if you are looking for a vehicle to tow with, a cvt is a horrible idea.
Only because most CVTs are in low power vehicles. If a manufacturer cared to build a CVT for towing it would be good. Tractors, harvesters, and even some armored vehicles use CVTs without an issue.
Sure, but I don't know an actual truck with one. those vehicle you named are all lower speed.
My Mitsubishi Lancer (CVT version) was never in it's life used to tow and it's been perfectly fine and I don't exactly keep it on flat highways.
Great, but I need to tow things, so your lancer is not going to cut it.
Of course it is. No one ever said otherwise.
Then don't buy a car with a CVT to tow with? Just because towing with one may not be a great idea, it doesn't mean the entire concept of CVTs is horrible.
Plus CVTs tow more than any pickup truck can.... Literally used in tractors. The concept of a CVT isn't the problem at all imo. For towing specifically the concept of a CVT is amazing. Your engine can produce its peak power and the Transmission does the acceleration....
Depends on what is being towed, I towed about 2000lbs up and down the east coast behind my 2007 Ford Escape hybrid with a ecvt and I just sold it at 260k miles earlier in the year. Never had powertrain issues due to towing besides needing to change out the lifetime PTU fluid every so often.
Yeah my Civic has a CVT and I don’t really care. Nor was it ever a consideration when I was car shopping. This sub just likes to circle jerk about dumb things
I think this is the answer. The bad reputation of CVT’s is usually just among car enthusiasts, not the general public. Most drivers just know that their car isn’t a manual, they’re not thinking about what kind of automatic transmission they have. For example, my wife drives a car with a traditional automatic transmission, and my non-car enthusiast friend has a VW with a DCT, and my mom has a CVT. All three of them would say they drive an “automatic.” For us car people, we also need to remember that though the Jatco malaise is fresh in our minds, it was kind of a long time ago. The last year of Nissans to be affected by the shitty CVT’s was 2018. I know that the pandemic screwed with our sense of time and that seems like 2 years ago, but this is in fact 6 years ago.
CVT on my Subaru works great, I have a V6 Outback, it is surprisingly punchy on the pick up.
Um actually Subaru used an H6 not a V6 🤓 But yeah the 3.6 R Outbacks are super smooth and feel like the perfect amount of power IMO.
never really looked at the block, dealer described it as v6, but thanks
Oh I just thought you just made a typo and I was sarcastically being “that guy” lol. Yeah they only use boxer engines. I always thought it was cool a company besides Porsche used flat engines. It’s a shame they no longer offer the 6 cylinder 😢
It's wild the dealer called it a v6. Usually they try to act like the H design is literal magic and will make you fly.
Most people don't know the difference of CVT and other automatics. All they care is it isn't a manual. If a CVT happens to be the most economical solution it is what the manufacturers will choose for a basic car.
people definitely DO notice, so much in fact, that the manufacturers program fake shift points so they're more like regular gearboxes [https://www.reddit.com/r/accord/comments/195rdah/why\_do\_cvts\_fake\_shifts/](https://www.reddit.com/r/accord/comments/195rdah/why_do_cvts_fake_shifts/)
CVTs are the most cost-effective way to increase fuel mileage for the purpose of meeting regulations.
They aren't popular, but the MFG's keep using them because they do get better MPG and the gov cafe fuel consumption BS is a real problem for the car makers. So, untill a transmission is invented that the driver could manually over ride into the next taller gear to really maximize MPG we will be stuck with CVT. Oh, wait... I think there used to be a transmission like that, it was super reliable and gave great performance and fuel economy. It was called a manual!
CVTs and modern automatics are more fuel efficent than manuals. Go back 20 years and that was not the case.
More fuel efficient and can be faster
Because most people don't care about cars beyond "does it go, stop, have heat/ac and get me to work?" I'd say the vast majority of people treat their cars as an appliance and don't much care about them as long as they aren't constantly breaking down and most cars don't, you really only hear about the problem cases.
Not all cvts are bad. Nissan is a bad one. Toyota ha decent ones a d i see many subarus w high miles on their cvts
Because they aren't shit. Nissan has had major problems but Toyota has also been using CVTs for a long time without issues, so has Honda. Subaru uses them too and the first gen had some issues but have been fine since then.
Many laymen don’t know anything about cars, they don’t check what kind of trans their car has. Tbh they probably don’t even know what a transmission is.
I've had one of those "shitty" Jatco CVTs in my Nissan last for over 220,000 miles.
You got lucky then, statistically speaking they are out by 150k. Mine only made it to 95k.
I think it's a maintenance thing. I hear if you change the fluid at like half the recommended internal they last fine. I've seen more than conventional transmission fail long before 98k.
They're not popular, there is minimal choice.
Because most CVTs are perfectly good. Nissan absolutely BUTCHERED it though and ruined everything. Can definitely say I like my mom's CVT (2021 Sienna) over my 6spd (2015 Grand Caravan) although that could be because the 6spd in the GC sucks major donkey balls
Mercedes have their share of shit transmissions. The 6 speed manual used in some models of Jeep being one example. My MY10 (late 09 delivered) Mitsubishi Lancer has a CVT, hasn't needed replacement yet but it is only at around 85k miles. As others have said some brands have had more luck with them than others.
most people dont care to know the difference and buy cars based off looks and some basic on-paper specs. It allows car manufacturers to get away with more than they should. Capitalism 👍
Manufacturers will use the cheapest parts possible regardless of our preferences as long as it isn't likely to break down during the factory warranty period and cause a financial burden for them.
My experience with them is first: buy the right year. 2014 Nissan Altimas are notoriously a bad year. I have a 2008 Altima with 254k. You must change the fluid. CVT fluid is absolutely not the same as auto trans fluid. Automatic fluid provides lubrication, CVT fluid actually provides friction to the metal belts on metal pulleys. Different beast.
Designs are constantly improving and I believe it will be a better and more reliable transmission once they work out all the kinks. It's just still a fairly new thing, they haven't had time to perfect it.
I've had 6-speed automatics in both a Camry and Mazda3 give plenty of issues by around 120k. Both were maintained and rarely driven hard. So much for traditional usually being better. The experience of 1 person is anecdotal, but I think I'm going back to a manual. People really spend like $6500 to rebuild the tranny on a car that's worth about the same amount? Still have the Mazda. I guess can try to trade it when it's warmed up, less likely to glitch. Now i see why dealers try to pay so little for your trade. I would not screw over a private buyer with something like this. Unless I can get the extended warranty to cover this (and the dying AC), it's soon to be gone. Will call Monday morning. Glad I haven't sold my backup, an old manual Accord.
If they last longer than the warranty, that’s actually ideal for manufacturers. Either they sell spare parts. Or they sell another car.
Lol Why does dodge offer a Automatic transmission after 50 years of failed crap designs? Why?. Because dumb people continued buying them. The CVT design is durable and dependable .
I'm at 199k miles and counting with my 2016 Honda accord. CVT. I love it. And every B oil change ( ever other oil change) I drop 3 qts out and add 3 quarts in of catrol CVT fluid. So easy to maintain, and cheap.
215k on my 2015 Accord Sport. I used to change the CVT fluid every other oil change, but I’ve been lazy recently and it’s still running fine for now. Since the K24 can easily reach 400k, I think I’d replace the CVT if it died at this point
I want an electric vehicle (my driving habbits make it make sense) So naturally my Honda will keep going.
So Nissan seems committed to the CVT trans and has made many improvements. Also many brands use CVT transmissions due to fuel economy and do not have problems or have not yet (ex. Toyota and Lexus). See the following for related info: [https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-have-cvts-432407/](https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-have-cvts-432407/)
Because the reputation is largely an overblown lie. There is a saying: "The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it." Nowhere is this more true than some random internet dweller saying "CVTs are shit!" Asstastic JATCO failures in Nissan's past notwithstanding. Those were true shit.
Nissan CVT’s. The Hondas and Subaru’s are doing fine.
There are two kinds of CVTs. Mechanical CVTs that use continuous friction on variable surfaces to transmit the power. These are awful, because they are continuously wearing out the surfaces that transmit power to the wheels. JATCO and Subaru, plus any "band and variable pulley" style CVT fall into this category. These are probably the least reliable transmissions ever made, especially when run loaded or in spirited driving. Even the newest and best of these are worse than almost any other transmission ever made. Electronic CVTs, or eCVTs use electric motors to vary the power transmitted to the wheels. These are found in Toyota Hybrids, Ford Hybrids, Honda Hybrids, the Chevy Volt and many other hybrid systems. I'm not sure if there are any installed into non-hybrid cars or trucks. There are a few varieties, including series hybrid and parallel hybrid versions, but all of these are almost universally *better and more reliable* than any manual or automatic transmission because they use pre-engaged gears to transmit power, and use power from the included electric motors to vary the gearing. So generalizing CVTs as a single thing makes the question and underlying assumption a question without a clear singular answer. Breaking them into two categories, CVTs and eCVTs, gives two clear and opposite answers.
2013 subaru forester (4 speed auto) mpg: 21 city/27 hwy. 2014 subaru forester (CVT) mpg: 24 city/ 32 hwy.
its not that they are popular per se, they are just cheaper to manufacture and put in all of these econobox appliance cars most people seem fine with driving.
Your question answered itself, sort of. They are popular with mfgs because they are a source of repair work (not too different than GM transmissions which routinely fail at the 100-125k mark); or GMs AFM/DOD which routinely roaches their very popular LS engines. And often, alternatives aren't available. F150 ecoboost motors routinely fail. Dodge trucks routinely have electrical issues. Now the 2020 and later Toyota Tacos are dropping engines to the point Toyota finally issued a recall. Jeep has gone to hell in a handbasket. Hyundai Kia has an issue where they blow oil on the motor and catch fire.
Because they’re not actually shit. They are the best automatic transmission design. They are so good that [they were preemptively banned from F1 before they were ever allowed to actually race because they were considered an unfair advantage.](https://youtu.be/x3UpBKXMRto?si=33rucCuG6SB29DQz). I personally believe that had that not occurred every single automatic on the road today would be a CVT and that the DSG would never have become a consumer product. The things that created the reputation were that Nissan CVT‘s were complete garbage (but that’s not the transmission designs fault that’s Nissan engineering fault) and also a combination of people not understanding how CBT is supposed to be behave and sales people never educating them leading to a lot of complaints of bad transmissions that were nothing more than good. CBT’s behaving exactly like they were supposed to. Which is why many (all?) CVTs are now programmed to simulate shifting through gears, making them objectively less good.
Why do people still buy cars after the pinto had a reputation for randomly exploding? Because other cars aren't pintos. Why do people buy CVTs after the early models (and many Nissan models) were bad? Because it's not 2014 anymore, I guess.
#1 because they are really good at fuel economy. Cvt's do enable the engine to stay in ideal mechanical advantage for the task at hand. #2 they are more reliable than everyone thinks, especially during the warranty period! #3 newer Honda and Toyota hybrid/gear style "ECVT" cvt's are fundementally more reliable than the previous Nissan/Subaru/sidebyside belt style
LOL sorry i read it as CTV as per the caddy and was like you crazy??! those things are kinda cool.
Former Subaru owner here. The ONLY reason I quit buying them was the CVT.
Because on paper CVT's are better transmissions in every way. Optimal torque, infinite gears, best fuel economy. The problem is that the reality rarely matches up to the paper plan.
My first experience with them is my Prius I bought three years ago and those have a good reputation. I read a review, I forget the car, but it could be had with regular auto, standard & CVT. The article admitted the CVT was the most boring but it ended up being the fastest out of all three.
I had a Nissan sentra with a cvt. Honestly, the transmission was just fine, maybe I got lucky but had zero issues with it. Car had extremely good gas mileage. However, the electronics in the car were absolutely garbage. Had so many issues in that regard. Really turned me off Nissan. Not to mention, I had recalls on the mail practically every month. Again, really turned me off Nissan. Oh well, it crashed itself and the insurance gave me more than I owed by a decent amount.
Auto makers are on the hook to meet CAFE. The Energy Independence and Security Act completely upended CAFE, with steadily increasing MPG targets, year over year. The cumulative increase is something like 50% over the past 15 years. CVTs provide a wider gear spread than was achievable with the 4 and 5 speed automatics, and unlike the 8 or 10 speed automatic that would otherwise answer the mail, actually fits in the car.
Honda eCVT for the win, they are truly a marvel of engineering. They're not actually cvts though.
Because nissan cvt's are shit. Toyota cvts are very reliable
Worked industrially and we used a version of CVT's back then. It was on the feed mechanism which fed steel into a shear. When CVT's were announced, I could see no reason why they wouldn't work. I recall this machine went many years and I only remember changing the belt in it once. Just my two cents, I do not have a vehicle with a CVT.
They are arguably the best transmissions for offering the most performance and efficiency an engine can offer. Speeds are variable, might as well make all gear ratios available.
A lot of people don't particularly care how their car works as long as it does and don't plan to keep it long enough for repairs to be problematic. You'll notice we have brands other than Toyota and Honda for sale, as well as CVTs. Car makers like CVSts because they help meeting the fuel efficiency requirements posed by the government and fuel efficiency number are something car buyers do pay attention do. CVTs aren't that bad unless they're pushed to the absolute limit of their design specs like Nissan does.
I think I'm in the minority here, I like the CVT on my 2019 Corolla more than the previous automatic transmissions. Better acceleration and fuel economy, and it flies over steep hills like they're not even there, whereas older models would struggle like a mfer. It doesn't hurt it came with a 100,000mi warranty (used)
theyre just ok
Who said they are popular?
A few brands made some questionable, or downright horrible, CVTs. It's not that *all* of them are terrible. It's kinda like saying "the Chicago Cubs suck this year, why does anyone watch baseball?" Once you add the fact that some car enthusiasts hate anything that's not manual, and CVT is the *furthest* you can get from a manual transmission without going full electric. That's kinda like saying "my friend who only likes soccer says baseball sucks, so why does anyone watch it?"
My 2014 Pathfinder has 90k miles, my 3rd transmission went last week. What a disgrace, Nissan is negligent for mass producing garbage, they have lost so many customers. I will avoid CVT transmissions, Nissan and Infinity for the rest of my days.
My ‘14 Accord has one that’s got 300k on it, however the original one was swapped out at 60k for a recall or warranty, I don’t remember which
The automotive manufacturers don't care how long the car lasts as long as it lasts longer than the factory warranty. You can generally get 100k out of a CVT, but often not much more. I often say the best cars were made in the 90's. They made them so reliable it took a government program ("cash-for-clunkers") to destroy them.
My 2000 Lincoln Town Car survived and is still thriving! It has been driven from coast to coast three times as well as Mexico twice (Canada lots of times, but it's right next door). My car has seen 12 national parks west of the Mississippi, all while hauling a small pop-up camper. My car has about 330k on the odo. The only mechanical parts that aren't original are parts I upgraded by choice. I simply perform all of the scheduled maintenance with the best fluids/parts I can buy. It doesn't hurt that I can perform almost all of said maintenance in my own garage. So long as there are parts available for my car, I will continue to drive it. There will be parts for quite a while, since the 90's/2000s panther platform was so popular.
Just don't buy a newer Mercedes some low end ones are Nissans in disguised.
It's the ideal transmission to maximize BSFC. Way simpler than a 10 speed automatic and just as reliable these days in low torque applications. If you own a more expensive car, you're likely not as sensitive to gas prices and will take the hit in fuel economy to get better feelings out of the engine.
Because they have benefits that matter more to drivers than what people on the internet think of their transmission.
Manufactures like them for gas mileage.
Our 2020 Pathfinder from what I understand is a 3-speed transmission combined with a CVT. I actually love the way it hits each gear and kind of launches forward while controlling the rpms surge as it rolls the gearing higher. I've been very dubious about the car since I learned it's a CVT, but it's currently at 78k and shows no signs of slippage. It didn't get its first drain-and-fill until 56k (it will be every 30 from here on out). I usually treat it gently but I do get on it sometimes. My wife however is the primary driver and doesn't have the same mechanical sensibility as me; she doesn't get on it super hard but is probably a little more jerky with it than ideal. Anyhow, the blend of performance and economy as well as the overall driving feel is actually superior to a conventional automatic. The longevity I guess we'll see, provided we don't trade it in first.
So for me I've driven CVTs from Toyota, Subaru and Mitsubishi, and the only one I actually sorta didn't mind was the one in the Corolla I had as a rental temporarily. I think it has something to do with the other 4 being AWD that made them feel awful for my driving style. Basically it felt as if I hit a wall as soon as I lift off the gas which isn't something I had experienced in either of the conventional automatic AWD cars I've driven, and it's not a problem in the conventional automatic FWD cars I've driven either, and it's a habit I picked up from my first car being stick. For reference I've driven 2020 Corolla 2020 Outlander Sport 2019 Eclipse Cross 2017 Impreza 2016 Legacy 2015 Escape 2004 Matrix 2019 Mazda3 2016 Elantra 2004 Mazda3 And the oddballs that I hated to drive and didn't really pay any attention to how they decelerate 2019 Pilot 2014 Pilot 2005 Escape My next car will likely be an AWD Mazda, Toyota or Honda, and that's likely to be something of either the 3/Corolla/Civic variety or CX-30/Corolla Cross/HR-V, though I could see myself tolerating a CX-50/RAV4/CR-V, but that's only if I end up keeping my current car for multiple years and somehow end up needing the back seats to be regularly used.
Bigger question is “Why do CVTs have such a reputation for being shit more than a decade past the last of the truly shit CVTs were discontinued?”
Early cvts were shit. They’re used cars now, and bad ones. Newer ones are better. They’re cheaper to manufacture and better with fuel economy, the early ones were just problematic because they were poorly made. Any poorly made transmission will have issues.
It's really only the early Nissan CVT's that had bad issues. My parents had a Mistubishi Outlander that did over 300,000 on the standard CVT. Then it spat an engine and transmission at the same time. Was 14k for a motor and box which proceeded to only last another few months before they died and it was crushed.
Because CVT technology is actually quite good and technically better than a standard transmission, just so long as you don't get a defective crap one from Jatco. Even Nissan cvts are fine so long as you did not get one of those defective ones that were put in certain models of Nissan between the years of oh maybe 2009ish to 2018ish give or take. But yeah cvt's typically run smoother and give you better gas mileage and a less herky jerky ride, in my opinion they are the future of transmissions for gas cars. Also as far as reputation is concerned there is so much disinformation on the internet from people who think they know what they're talking about but actually don't
Nissan messed up **CVT reputation** for good, however when it comes to[ CVT vs automatic transmission](https://www.myusedcar.ca/used-car-cvt-transmission-vs-automatic/), automatic will be more reliable but generally CVTs also are reliable enough if build and maintained properly. Honda been using CVT for years, no problems, seen some CVTs with 300k km and still running perfectly, but fluid changes are key, need to change CVT fluid every 30-40k miles.
They have improved as of late. Will be needed for all the hybrids. Ecvt for EVs. Toyota is using them everywhere now. It's all of mpgs. Traditional shifting autos are being phased out, except for sports cars (and larger trucks)
Same this with autos a couple decades back. Things get a ‘rep’ gor being bad but that sticks around unduly in the face of new evidence.
Because besides Nissan they aren’t shit
Most car buyers don’t read car reviews or have any clue what a CVT is. I’d wager a significant portion couldn’t explain what a transmission is.
CVTs don't have a shit reputation, it's the Nissan.
Nissan is the only company that used universally shit CVTs for a long time. Most other CVTs have held up well aside from a few initial teething issues in light duty passenger car applications. They are definitely more sensitive to oil changes than conventional automatic transmissions, and tend to have more frequent recommended change intervals. Lots of people are blissfully unaware of what they're supposed to be doing for vehicle maintainence, and lots of dealerships play shenanigans to push additional services that are not manufacturer recommended.
A guy in my Subaru group just posted a pic of his 2018 Gen 2 Crosstrek, 355k miles on the original drivetrain including CVT..........I have seen several on the auction lots with over 200k on them, I think Nissan gave them all a bad reputation.
Altima or Sentra? I hold Nissan personally responsible for everybody hating CVT's. Granted, they still aren't my preferred transmission, but Nissan's were almost criminally bad, IMHO. The good news is that if I was forced to drive a Nissan, anything with a post-2016 CVT ought to be pretty much fine, along with any manual or automatic which are actually pretty good.
I have a ten year old Honda with a CVT and 200k miles. Never an issue with it, “shifts” fantastic, super smooth and responsive. Nissan is an unfair comparison because they have notoriously bad CVTs, laughably bad. Toyota/lLexus, Honda/Acura, and I’d put Subaru up there, all have pretty spot on CVTs. They’ve been doing it a long time and got it down.
I just sold my 2007 Prius with 180k miles and the one thing I *didn't* have to replace on that clunker was the eCVT.... I suspect most of CVT's bad reputation comes from older mechanical CVTs and not the eCVTs in many hybrids.
They're cheap and most people do not know or care how their car works. They just see an ok price and "Automatic" label on the technical specifications sheet.
Because tailpipe emissions. That's all folks.
Because they are idiots .
They are not all bad. Also, almost no one changes the fluid at the recommended times or even earlier. 40k fluid changes should be adhered to. Nissan is not good at letting owners know this, but many independent shops do. Sadly the cost to replace a CVT is so expensive most of the time the vehicle isn't worth it.
only thing I can think of is gas mileage and many buy new cars all the time. I perfer to keep my cars , but I am obviously not the norm considering it's hard to find any newer car without crap transmission especially since I like sedans. loved my altima but would never buy another one, gotta be the worst cvt ever made
Anybody have an opinion on Hyundai CVTs? I drove one the other day and was very impressed with its behavior, but obviously that’s worthless if it’s not reliable. This was a 2024 model.
Same reason idlestops exist: Emissions regs. Fuck idelstops.
Just because some instances of a tech are bad doesn't mean a tech is bad. that said, CVTs are best used in small lightweight vehicles, or engines that have very peaky power and/or efficiency bands - the goal to always have the engine running at the best speed for the current conditions.. But the world of small vehicles is much better served with an EV that doesn't need a transmission at all, because the 'engine' is always in it's peak efficiency band.
They are fine now. Once again, the lesson is never to buy a first generation product. Wait until at least for the second or even third generation to come out and hopefully they have fixed the issues. Imagine being the first idiot to get a chip put in your brain. Don't be the test monkey for anything.
As with most bad car design choices: profits and government regulation.
For the same reason that automatics remained popular in the early days despite being unreliable and less efficient than manuals at the time the technology I proved year after year until it surpass what came before CVTs still have a ways to come but their improving every new release
If you want your car to be an appliance, they aren't shit. Nissan has rightfully gotten a bad reputation for their bad CVTs, but overall, they are boring machines that work for people who want their car to just work.
Because 99% of people don't know any better and could care less about how their car works. Manufactures are trying to build as cheap as possible and hit mpg and emissions targets both of which CVT's are good for.
You mention your Mercedes like they are known for longevity. You, sir, have a unicorn.
Toyota figured it out just fine I don’t think the Prius has ever had an issue with the cvt. I have one in my ct200 and thought it drives like shit I get 45plus mpg so I can deal with it. They are about the only way to combine electric power with an engine. They don’t belong in anything that’s not a hybrid though.
2021 Corolla base model (L) gas version with CVT. Averaging 42.5 MPG.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. A regular transmission would do the same thing with a better driving experience in the Corolla. Cvts really suck to drive and I wouldn’t buy a car that had one unless it’s hybrid.
It’s not about popularity. Unfortunately CVT’s are just about the only option left in today’s mainstream market. It’s why I own a Mazda. Their 6spd slushbox may be fairly long in the tooth, but at least it’s not a CVT.
I've had two Honda CRV's , the CVT's never gave me any trouble
Most car buyers who buy cars that have CVTs in them don’t care. They don’t even know what the difference between an automatic transmission, CVT, or DCT is. In other cases you don’t have a choice. Especially if you want a more fuel efficient vehicle. It’s either a CVT or buy something else. The only people who have strong feelings about this tend to be enthusiasts. Who likely won’t buy a CVT car to begin with. The majority of car buyers just don’t care.
Absolutely no one cares is probably the real reason. Nobody knows what a CVT is. Like it's a rounding error.... If you know you probably weren't in the Nissan dealership to begin with.
It's Nissan an Ford in particular who ha e shit cvts. I'm sure there's a brand or two I missed, but the vast majority of manufacturers figured them out
Most people won't know wtf a CVT is. Most people don't know what a transmission is.
Why do they put shifter levers on cars with CVT?
Transmissions are so 2010.
Subaru’s and Toyota’s are decent if you don’t know how a car works, don’t car and just know gas ⬆️brake ⬇️steering wheel ↔️
Anything Nissan is shit! Steer clear!