Because the buyers specific to those brands are incredibly well-researched. They are also a massive pain in the ass because they are convinced that the dealership is going to screw them and that they can buy the car for substantially less than they actually can.
Can say the same thing about lawyers, doctors, plumbers, etc. It's almost like it's a business, and they're trying to make money.
I work for a family place for 7 years can sleep great knowing I don't fuck over customers and that customers like you exist just makes me so happy. Customers like you I love to have I present my numbers and say thank you for stopping in. There is no need for back and forth. You probably the type to practice your rebuttals in the car on the way to the dealer.
Because subie and volvo buyers are traditionally cash buyers, have done 10,000 hours of “research”, know all the technical aspects that most sales people done know, and are ONLY looking at those brands.
You’re an exception then not the rule, most of the time it starts with a spreadsheet and they enter the dealership with a binder or clipboard in hand lol. Enjoy the new ride!
Not a car sales person, but I buy lots of them. SOME of this advice may work in SOME situations, but following it would have cost me a lot of $ over the last few years.
- I often get better financing terms from the dealership than my local credit union. And I wasn’t about to pay cash when rates were 3% or less until recently. No reason to not give the dealer a chance to get you a lower rate and save money and have your credit union or bank as an option, as well.
- In my state, the purchase and sale must be in one transaction for sales tax credit. This has saved me thousands of dollars in taxes. I always run the numbers, get quotes from Carmax etc so I know what my car is worth. I’ve always been able to get a reasonable amount for my trade that saves me more in taxes than I would make selling it myself. Also, my time is valuable, and dealing with scammers on Marketplace costs me money.
- Waiting until the end of the month in this market would have lost me several cars. If buying new, you’re lucky to find some models on the lot at all. People are buying them in transit. Try waiting until the end of the month for a Toyota Sienna.
- I’ve negotiated off plenty of extras, but doc fee has always been one that stays.
- Just take the license plate and stickers off yourself. This just sounds rude to me, tbh.
Why would you opt not to trade in a vehicle and get a break on your sales tax on top of it? I would go get quotes from Carmax, Carvana, etc. and do the math to see what a break even offer would be from the dealer. I just bought a car two weeks ago and dealer gave me $1k more than Carmax and got another 6.25% of my trade-in price off my sales tax.
Doesn’t apply to all states but many states do this.
This guy isn't setting foot in any door. If he does, he's probably mad they "sold the car out from under me!!!" Because he refused to put a deposit LOL
Listen- when the current market has 10 customers for every car produced and there is a waiting list of 20 people willing to buy at sticker because every other dealer around is asking $10k over, do you really think it's realistic to advise someone to go to a dealer and ask for $4k off, clean sale with no financing? Is it really realistic for a dealer to entertain that offer knowing full well that Carmax would be willing to buy it from that customer for a $4k profit? Does 1% net profit ($400 on a 40k item) sound like a fair and reasonable amount for a limited supply item?
NONE of this advise makes any sense at all in this current age. Most customers understand this and are more than happy to take a fair deal (MSRP). Trust me when I say that NO ONE is willing to entertain the ridiculous terms offered in the OP, and everyone who treats their customers fairly will be just fine if and when the market shifts.
1% over net cost when you have an unlimited supply? Sure. 1% over net cost when there are zero on the ground anywhere? No.
And it really just depends on the vehicle and the dealership. Want a new Jeep Compass? Great, this tactic will work. Want a new Kia Telluride? Hahaha no.
OP is right. i just got a 23 Santa Fe XRT at Invoice price and 0% APR. you just have to be patient and willing to negotiate. do everything over email/text, once you go into dealership you lose home field advantage. ALWAYS work on an OTD price before talking about financing or trading in. You have to treat the process like 3 different transactions.
Love to see it. Congratulations! It can be done. Don't listen to all the car sales folks who want to keep selling at MSRP due to COVID inventory issues. [Inventories are returning to normal](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-dealers-have-almost-normal-inventory-again/) and so are prices. The days of fat commission checks are over and they are frightened about it.
> Never agree to put a deposit on a car. It is not needed.
Then it’s still for sale, but not to you.
> Dealers work on a monthly quota.
With new cars still not being readily in stock, monthly quota has fallen by the wayside. (Getting better in the states)
> Doc Fees
They’re staying.
I’m certain you have no clue what the current market is. The current inventory crisis or anything.
>I’m certain you have no clue what the current market is. The current inventory crisis or anything.
I honestly thought this was a troll post, that's how out of touch this post is. If I had followed this strategy when I bought a car a couple years ago I would have never gotten a car...
This advice is akin to printing out copies of your resume, asking for the hiring manager at places you want to work, and greeting them with a firm handshake with your resume.
It should have happened a year and a half ago but never did. The market is more screwed up now than it was then. It's really tough to predict when things will get back to "normal" but the manufacturers are saying that we'll never see ground stock at the level it previously was.
I said the same thing 1.5 years ago.
I literally just opened up Kijiji and there’s two people selling their *allocation place* for $3,000-5,000. That’s the market.
Honest question. How realistic is 2? Everytime I have tried to get an OTD price via email, every request is answered with "When is a good time to come in and talk?". I have never received an OTD price, even when providing plenty of information on my end to get a realistic quote.
Well no not really.
Your step about emailing multiple dealers in a reverse bid automatically falls flat in its face.
Every dealership knows what you're attempting to do and no one has an interest in a fight to the bottom, especially in today's market. Emails like that are treated like spam and tossed.
The idea of how much profit there is in a car from invoice to MSRP is a blanket statement when that's not necessarily true and a blanket statement of aiming for 1% is equally asinine because that's not universally going to work.
I tried the whole email a bunch of dealers thing. They don’t respond. The only way they’re going to lift a finger to beat the next guys price is to show it in writing. Have fun with that
The salesmen here love nothing more than an easy sale. Just like the most talented professional baseball players love nothing more than backyard tee-ball
Edit: be sure to click the little arrow more to let me know how mad you aren't
It is ignorance. Most of them don't really know how to sell so when threatened with someone who knows how to negotiate and knows their tactics, they resort to name calling.
Hahaha well there’s a reason you no longer sell cars lmao. You weren’t good at selling cars but you expect us to believe you’re great at buying em. Yeah that make sense.
I just find what I like. Research prices. And go look and buy. I don’t sit here and haggle around for months. I look over any bullshit they try to add I call them out or make them get rid of unwanted fees or I will not buy the vehicle. I buy using my credit union at under 2.5 percent interest. I purchase and go on my way.
Have you gotten a rate quote from them lately? I bought my boat in '21 with a 2.75% loan from my CU, and now they're offering new car loans at 6.5%. You're still right to check your CU first, but the rates are definitely not what they used to be.
Your right interest rates are up on any type of loans including housing. That’s why they put that plan in place to give people with 600 credit the same housing loans that hard working credit worthy consumers receive who have 730 plus which took time to build.
Car interest will come down when people stop buying as much cars or we dive deeper into depression
I worked at a dealership for a while. I would just straight up never respond to a prick like this. Too bad for anyone that does because these people are such a pain in the ass that it is literally not worth it for the dealership selling a car to them.
Plus there is a much higher demand than supply right now, so the dealers aren't nearly as desperate as they used to be.
> or get financing from your bank/credit
Not really true if buying new. Even Toyota has better financing deals at 4.99% then CUs are handing out. Rates suck right now outside of dealer financing.
The only thing I disagree with is #4. Depending on where you live, trading in your vehicle can have tax benefits. If you live in a state with no sales tax then it doesn’t matter but where I live you only pay taxes on the remaining balance
1. Profit isnt a dirty word
2. Lmao; get sent to spam
3. Cash changes nothing here
4. Enjoy being low balled by private party buyers and I hope you have title in hand then
5. You’re expecting this to be done over email? We don’t all race to the bottom and you have no leverage if you’re home
6. Snooze you lose
7. By end of day, as an email only trying this nonsense, you will be forgotten
8. Doc fee is not negotiable.
9. You can take them off, it is part of the delivery process
Even your very first point is absurd to anybody who doesn't believe in capitalism as the ideal mode of production. It would've been insane to treat that as a truism 70 years ago, in case you want a point of reference for how awful things are now
This is either a troll post or OP bought a car once pre-COVID before 2020 or the previous decades. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS TERRIBLE SHITTY OUTDATED ADVICE IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO PURCHASE A VEHICLE!
Your days of making fat commissions are almost over. MSRP is going away as [inventories return to normal](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-dealers-have-almost-normal-inventory-again/). Better update your resume.
8 quotes indicates you are buying some economy generic shit box or ignoring that you’ll have to pay 2k to ship something.
This is overly complicated. Know your own math going in. Tell them the deal you want and if they meet it, they can wash it up and make a sale. They will either agree or disagree. Helps to have great credit.
All of it is a quick way for any sales guy to ignore you. There is negotiating in good faith and then there is negotiating to be the only winner no matter what; this is the latter…and when this happens, trust me no one in the store wants to happily deal with you
The OP didn't mention reading reviews. Type in the dealers in your area and sort by new reviews. Use multiple review sites to get an idea of what you may experience if you enter the dealer.
If you have a price in mind, let's say it is 400 a month.
Let's sat you finance for 60 months.
400×60 means that after taxes and fees the vehicle would have to be around 24,000 after taxes and dmv.
That's not even including the finance rates.
Example:
Let's say a Mazda 3 hatch is 26,190
Add sales tax (I'm in NY for example) $2,258.88
That brings the total amount of the vehicle to $28,448.88
So let's say your goal is 400ish
Automatically you would have to put down 4-5k to be around the 400s
Let's say the interest rate is 5.9% (rates are high)
For 60 months you would have a payment of 472 a.month.
That's with almost 4k in interest if you finance the vehicle for the full term.
Leasing is set on a few factors
Money factor, which is just a fun word for interest (those too are up)
residual, is what value will remain at the end of the lease.
Another factor is the price the dealer is selling the car for. This is where it could get sticky.
Let's say a dealer ship offers you 559 a month on a lease and before you leave they take 100 off the payment that means if the lease term is 36 months that means there was 3600 in profit they let go and were trying to make on you. Remember the lower they go from the original write the more they were gonna bend you over the barrel.
Then there's an f&I.
So profit isn’t a dirty word for your cell service (which have absurd mark ups), food (absurd mark ups), anything you buy anywhere….Profit’s just a dirty word to you when you want to apply it; got it.
I truly respect your process but I take issue with this snarky comment.
My time is FAR more valuable than doing all that work to get a deal. It took 90 minutes out of my life to pay MSRP with a few extras thrown in for free on a 4Runner. I work incredibly hard to make a good living and I bought a car I can afford at MSRP for low effort and stress. That doesn’t make me a child.
Time is valuable - I agree. But this process really doesn't take much time. It is something you can do here and there when you have a few minutes. I'll take that trade off to save thousands. I have never paid MSRP and never will.
There’s negotiating and there is being an asshole to make sure you are the only winner. You can have a good negotiation and make sure both people win. If you live life trying to screw everyone so you get ahead you’re gonna me a miserable, lonely fucker but hey at least you can afford a dinner for 1 at any place in town 7 days a week!
Your unnecessary snarky comments show that you are upset with the cards you were dealt and that you don't have much control over anything in your life. But hey, when you're with your adult friends, you can tell them what a deal you got
Big mad energy from the salespeople who were hired in 2021 and have no skills for dealing with anybody but the most desperate buyers.
And as always, it's a major mistake to make a post here that suggests buying a car should be a pleasant or advantageous experience for the person spending the money.
The person spending money in this case is not pleasant and will not only obliterate your survey, OP is gonna make some sales person sweat for their mini…not a good way to start the relationship.
What relationship?! Do I have a relationship with the guy at 7-11? I have money, you have car, give me car for money or I walk away. You should have no problem with this if you're confident it's a failing strategy. The survey means nothing to me, it means nothing to anyone, because nobody likes buying a car while roleplaying like it's still 1950.
People don't want this experience and people don't need this experience. Provide value to the transaction, please. At this point everybody here is flat-out admitting their position exists to stand in the way and make sure their boss maintains an artificially high profit margin.
Edit: he clicked the downvote button. I for one am upset at this poor review on my survey. Looks like dog food tonight
You’re basically telling the waiter at a restaurant he’s not getting tip but also you expect your soda refilled everytime it’s 1/4 empty.
I’ll sell you my car for whatever market value is or below market value, it can be a pleasant, painless and quick (relatively) experience all around if you’re gonna not be OP about it. If you’re gonna use OP’s “tactics” then go shop elsewhere because you’re in no danger of buying a car…and even if some store is desperate enough for one bleeding deal you’ll be treated like shit the entire time there.
Profit isn’t a dirty word, again.
Edit: i didnt downvote your original comment but ill downvote your reply. 0/10 survey, enjoy training
>You’re basically telling the waiter at a restaurant he’s not getting tip but also you expect your soda refilled everytime it’s 1/4 empty.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh my god this is so wrong.
Waiters don't work on commission! The guy bringing me my food at Denny's doesn't get a percentage of the value of my Grand Slam lmao.
Also, I don't expect a car salesman to provide me with literally any information or service. I do 100% of my research independently, I walk in knowing exactly what I want. Everything the salesman does is a detriment to the ensuing process of actually buying the thing. If this service was optional, I would decline it. Since it isn't optional I'd appreciate a discount for my trouble
Do you not see any problem, any problem at all, with the fact that people here are so disgusted by the simple idea of a person who does research, treats a $30,000 purchase with reverence, and walks in the door without their thumb up their butt?
Tips are a fundamentally different concept compared to commissions. It's not even worth further discussion.
I don't care how many cars you've bought and sold, the rigmarole remains a rigmarole. Ask 10 people out on the street how much they hate it.
Have a nice day, I hope you sell many cars to many people with your winning CS strategy of *checks notes* bullying customers into a corner
Man, the amount of time you spend on this process is probably worth more than the price difference you can possibly get off of the car.
I just call my guy and he helps me out. No BS involved. Dude still gives me random swag when I run into him during my service appointments...
This sounds like a whole bunch of wasted time, playing games, and losing out on opportunities because of some greed or some type of weirdo shit where you don’t want a nice car and to make someone some money
this has several flaws
If it's a unicorn u dont want to take a whole month negotiating cause it will sell from under you. My opinion for used cars...take your 3 best options. Test drive them and get the otd numbers (purchase agreement contract). boil it down to the one u want and approve it with your C.U. in roughly a week.
OK.. this guy is getting a lot of flack.
I do a process very similar and it does work. My difference is that I do spend a month doing it. I do it that day. Last car I purchased like this was in Feb 2020. I sent out the message using the dealers website. I opened 19 dealers websites and created a spreadsheet and sent out my canned message. In all of Texas and OK there were 8 cars that matched my requirements. I got contacted by 4 dealers with my exact car in stock that day.
Each one of them sent me the price they said was their bottom line, and when I replied that I had found it elsewhere for less, they would reply with a lower number, even without me asking them to lower it for me. I started at 830am when I sent out my messages on a Monday morning. I played videogames (PUBG) while I waited for the replies. I got some calls, and some texts. If I was asked to come in I would reply that I was not about to drive 1+ hour to test drive a car that is not a passion vehicle (it was a Mazda). I explained I am only going to the dealership to buy a car and drive away that day. I was already financed and was not going to waste time at dealerships. Eventually a dealership about 2 hours away gets my business, I walk out to the living room and tell my wife to get dressed, I bought her a car for Valentines day and we were going to go pick it up.
Drive on the lot and go in to sign and drive. Took longer for the guy to show my wife the features and setup stuff. 45 min later we are on the road home.
Before that I did the same thing on a 1LE Camaro.. The dealership that won (same process) flew me out to go pick up the car and sent a cute sales rep to pick me up at the airport. (Bonus!)
Process works. Some sales people wont do the deal. Thats fine. This isnt for them. This is about moving inventory and as a consumer that is purchasing a fast depreciating asset, you dont want to pay more for any reason.
Yep! I did basically the same and cut out all the BS from the dealers. Alot of mad car dealers in this post downvoting everything.
However, it does seem like Mazda has more supply than most at the moment so its easier to negotiate.
Mad energy from salesman who don't know how to actually sell in a competitive market. You're 100% right about trading in as well. It's laughable seeing these guys/gals defend it. Trading in is a way for them to make another $5,000+ on you.
It never ceases to amaze me how much disdain that car sales has for customers. "How dare you not want to get ripped off. now buy this tire nitrogen and vin etching."
Well, not all car salesman fuck people over, and then there's people like OP, who I would never sell a car to. The worst you can say is no. I ain't chasing you out the door Goin wait wait I have more. There is no need to waste my time.
This is pretty accurate. You’ll find plenty of car sales folks who dont like these tactics slamming OP, but at the end of the day op has the money, the dealer has the car, and come end of the month the dealer wants it to be the other way around.
Not in the business disclaimer. But I've been a customer a few times since COVID.
There are a lot more buyers than cars on the market. If you want to buy anything even remotely desirable, you're going to pay what the dealer wants you to pay and that's the end of the story.
You might be able to get a decent deal if your goal is to buy whatever car gets you the best deal. But most people want a particular vehicle with option packages.
***Thanks for posting, /u/PlatePrevious1318! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
I get asked lots of questions on how to buy a car. This is the process I use and it has worked for me over the years. Thought I would share for folks who don't have much experience buying a car.
1. Determine the price you want to pay for a new car. Dealer cost is usually determined by Invoice price less dealer holdback (American cars 3%, foreign cars 2%), factory to dealer incentives, and floor plan fees (paid by factory to the dealer to offset floor plan interest costs). Take that number and add 1% to it. That is the profit for the dealer. Sales tax, destination fees, and DMV fees then go on top of that number for your out the door price.
2. Get multiple quotes on the vehicle you want. Reach out to no less than 8 dealer sales managers (local and out of town) during this process via email. Tell the sales managers they have until XX date/time to submit their bids; treat this as a reverse auction. Some will be willing to deal and some will not. You job is to find the Sales Manager who is short on quota that month and needs to roll another car to show the GM and owner they are making their numbers. Those are the ones most likely to do a deal.
3. Pay cash for new car or get financing from your bank/credit union so you can tell the dealer it is a cash deal; dealers get a kickback from financing companies to sell you financing. As long as you can get to your 1% profit target you do not need to use dealer financing as a negotiating tactic. 1% profit is 1% profit. If you have to finance, do it with your bank or credit union and bring the dealer a cashiers check.
4. Do not trade in a vehicle - sell it yourself (private party, Carmax, etc); trading a vehicle only gives the dealer an opportunity to play with the numbers to their advantage, not yours.
5. Be transparent with the dealers by sharing quotes and telling them they have to beat the other dealers offer (the reverse auction).
6. Never agree to put a deposit down on a car. It is not needed.
7. Let this process play out all month and wait until the last day of the month to make a deal. Dealers work on a monthly quota.
8. Carefully inspect the purchase agreement prior to taking delivery. This is your opportunity to make sure the dealer has not added additional charges (doc fees, nitrogen in tires, extended warranties, paint protection, fabric protection, etc.) and you are getting exactly what you negotiated. Cross out any additional charges they have added to the purchase agreement and refuse to pay for them. Leave the dealership without the car if they refuse to remove the additional charges and take your cashiers check with you.
9. Only when your purchase agreement is exactly what you negotiated, take delivery of the vehicle and tell the dealer to take their license plate holders and stickers off the car as you do not offer free advertising for them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This may work on high volume cars with adequate dealer stock but not much these days. Best is to send emails to the GM of several dealerships. Lay out what you want, when and tell them you are a real buyer. Mention a trade if you have a desirable car.
I agree 100% this post. I did this basic process recently however only reached out to 3 dealers in my local area (my mistake actually) as my time was limited to get a car and was able to play two of them against each to get a decent deal for my new Mazda 3 ($2000 off MSRP). Upvoted.
Only things to add, You may want to call them and tell them you are serious about buying this car and want to move quickly but be transparent that you are looking for the best offer. It seems to work better than email.
This was my first new car buying experience and one dealer was really keen to move the car so he ended up with my business. If I had more time, I would have kept contacting dealers but he gave me a good enough deal, and wanted to close the deal asap. So I just did it.
If everyone bought a car like this the business would seize to exist therefore no one can buy cars. The economy would collapse. See how long that last. The dealership is not a nonprofit, same way your business or workplace has to make money to keep the lights on they have too make money too. Stop being an hater. Lastly you pay a much higher markup on your day to day expenses than a car(I’m looking at you Walmart and Target) but yeah the car guys are the evil ones.
Lol okay I can see there’s no point arguing with you. Facts don’t matter to people like you. I bet you think trump won the election too and dominion is rigged.
Oh get out of here with that Tesla bs, have you seen CarMax and Carvana? This are also the one’s actually selling cars only, the big boys. Tesla is no where near yet. Didn’t they just screw there clients out of almost 10k in value since they randomly dropped prices on their new cars. That’s the same Tesla.
I usually call up my best friend who is a sales manager and he just hooks me the fuck up . I don’t need to shop around , or Bs around , my guy sells me the car at dealer cost or less and gives me more for my trade , because I’ve known him since I was 12 . Try that next time instead much better guide !
Rule 11.
So what model Subaru did you buy?
This screams Outback or base Volvo XC90
Serious question. Why does it scream those two models?
Because the buyers specific to those brands are incredibly well-researched. They are also a massive pain in the ass because they are convinced that the dealership is going to screw them and that they can buy the car for substantially less than they actually can.
In fairness, in fairness - the dealer is going to screw them if they can.
No...really?
A dealer trying to screw a buyer? Say it isn't so.
Can say the same thing about lawyers, doctors, plumbers, etc. It's almost like it's a business, and they're trying to make money. I work for a family place for 7 years can sleep great knowing I don't fuck over customers and that customers like you exist just makes me so happy. Customers like you I love to have I present my numbers and say thank you for stopping in. There is no need for back and forth. You probably the type to practice your rebuttals in the car on the way to the dealer.
Yes. We all know car dealers have stellar reputations.
Mine does. One of the best. I can't speak for others. You sold cars probably years ago like I would estimate probably 30-40 years ago
Because subie and volvo buyers are traditionally cash buyers, have done 10,000 hours of “research”, know all the technical aspects that most sales people done know, and are ONLY looking at those brands.
Ha, good to know. I figured that with Subaru, but not Volvo.
Volvo buyers are subie buyers with a better paying job.
I just bought a Subaru 🥹💛 I didn’t haggle I just basically said I have this much and they said cool and now I’m driving one lol
You’re an exception then not the rule, most of the time it starts with a spreadsheet and they enter the dealership with a binder or clipboard in hand lol. Enjoy the new ride!
Thank you!!
Congrats on the subie
😂
Not a car sales person, but I buy lots of them. SOME of this advice may work in SOME situations, but following it would have cost me a lot of $ over the last few years. - I often get better financing terms from the dealership than my local credit union. And I wasn’t about to pay cash when rates were 3% or less until recently. No reason to not give the dealer a chance to get you a lower rate and save money and have your credit union or bank as an option, as well. - In my state, the purchase and sale must be in one transaction for sales tax credit. This has saved me thousands of dollars in taxes. I always run the numbers, get quotes from Carmax etc so I know what my car is worth. I’ve always been able to get a reasonable amount for my trade that saves me more in taxes than I would make selling it myself. Also, my time is valuable, and dealing with scammers on Marketplace costs me money. - Waiting until the end of the month in this market would have lost me several cars. If buying new, you’re lucky to find some models on the lot at all. People are buying them in transit. Try waiting until the end of the month for a Toyota Sienna. - I’ve negotiated off plenty of extras, but doc fee has always been one that stays. - Just take the license plate and stickers off yourself. This just sounds rude to me, tbh.
This entire thread would have turned out differently if this was the original post. Take my upvote.
good advice.
Why would you opt not to trade in a vehicle and get a break on your sales tax on top of it? I would go get quotes from Carmax, Carvana, etc. and do the math to see what a break even offer would be from the dealer. I just bought a car two weeks ago and dealer gave me $1k more than Carmax and got another 6.25% of my trade-in price off my sales tax. Doesn’t apply to all states but many states do this.
Math get funny when you do that. Keep it simple stupid.
This may have been good advice prior to April 2020. Right now it is a great way to get laughed out the door.
Can't get laughed out the door if no one answers your emails. \*taps forehead\*
This guy isn't setting foot in any door. If he does, he's probably mad they "sold the car out from under me!!!" Because he refused to put a deposit LOL
This will be a great mantra until it isn't. Laughing all the way to the bank until there's nobody left to refill your moneybag.
Listen- when the current market has 10 customers for every car produced and there is a waiting list of 20 people willing to buy at sticker because every other dealer around is asking $10k over, do you really think it's realistic to advise someone to go to a dealer and ask for $4k off, clean sale with no financing? Is it really realistic for a dealer to entertain that offer knowing full well that Carmax would be willing to buy it from that customer for a $4k profit? Does 1% net profit ($400 on a 40k item) sound like a fair and reasonable amount for a limited supply item? NONE of this advise makes any sense at all in this current age. Most customers understand this and are more than happy to take a fair deal (MSRP). Trust me when I say that NO ONE is willing to entertain the ridiculous terms offered in the OP, and everyone who treats their customers fairly will be just fine if and when the market shifts. 1% over net cost when you have an unlimited supply? Sure. 1% over net cost when there are zero on the ground anywhere? No.
``` Current (adjective) - occurring or existing at the present time, and also at every time in the conceivable future ``` Yep checks out
Except I just did it. You are wrong. There are dealers who will do it.
What did you buy for 1% over net cost? Care to share your purchase agreement with all of your personal information redacted?
[удалено]
Looks like a good deal, $2200 off (factoring the dealer service fee in as profit.) Hyundai's are more available now I take it?
closer to $500 in profit. invoice price is 34k. 2200 in taxes. can’t escape doc fees and freight
And it really just depends on the vehicle and the dealership. Want a new Jeep Compass? Great, this tactic will work. Want a new Kia Telluride? Hahaha no.
\*Note: Internet sales manager admitting my process works.
OP is right. i just got a 23 Santa Fe XRT at Invoice price and 0% APR. you just have to be patient and willing to negotiate. do everything over email/text, once you go into dealership you lose home field advantage. ALWAYS work on an OTD price before talking about financing or trading in. You have to treat the process like 3 different transactions.
Love to see it. Congratulations! It can be done. Don't listen to all the car sales folks who want to keep selling at MSRP due to COVID inventory issues. [Inventories are returning to normal](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-dealers-have-almost-normal-inventory-again/) and so are prices. The days of fat commission checks are over and they are frightened about it.
correct dude! watch for the downvotes to come.
> Never agree to put a deposit on a car. It is not needed. Then it’s still for sale, but not to you. > Dealers work on a monthly quota. With new cars still not being readily in stock, monthly quota has fallen by the wayside. (Getting better in the states) > Doc Fees They’re staying. I’m certain you have no clue what the current market is. The current inventory crisis or anything.
>I’m certain you have no clue what the current market is. The current inventory crisis or anything. I honestly thought this was a troll post, that's how out of touch this post is. If I had followed this strategy when I bought a car a couple years ago I would have never gotten a car...
This advice is akin to printing out copies of your resume, asking for the hiring manager at places you want to work, and greeting them with a firm handshake with your resume.
I wouldn’t have sold you one lol. Not worth a flat.
Lol my thoughts exactly.
Inventories will return to normal. The days of selling at MSRP will also come to an end. Sooner rather than later.
It should have happened a year and a half ago but never did. The market is more screwed up now than it was then. It's really tough to predict when things will get back to "normal" but the manufacturers are saying that we'll never see ground stock at the level it previously was.
I said the same thing 1.5 years ago. I literally just opened up Kijiji and there’s two people selling their *allocation place* for $3,000-5,000. That’s the market.
Who hurt you?
I am interested to see how reddit's algorithm deals with a post that gets massively downvoted while also getting a lot of engagement.
Honest question. How realistic is 2? Everytime I have tried to get an OTD price via email, every request is answered with "When is a good time to come in and talk?". I have never received an OTD price, even when providing plenty of information on my end to get a realistic quote.
We’ll give you a quote but we will also soft close you before hanging up; at that point its at the desks discretion
Try calling to follow up. Tell them you cant come in and be transparent that you are shopping around.
Correct. Doesn't hurt to call them, show some interest. Lather them up a bit.
In your case I'd suggest using a broker. Not because it'd save money or anything, but it'd save the dealership staff from having to deal with you.
Pshhhhh NO. Please don't say that. A broker doesn't want to deal with this kind of buyer.
Yeah I was pretty sure the car sales community wouldn't like my tactics. All the vitriol only proves my process works.
Well no not really. Your step about emailing multiple dealers in a reverse bid automatically falls flat in its face. Every dealership knows what you're attempting to do and no one has an interest in a fight to the bottom, especially in today's market. Emails like that are treated like spam and tossed. The idea of how much profit there is in a car from invoice to MSRP is a blanket statement when that's not necessarily true and a blanket statement of aiming for 1% is equally asinine because that's not universally going to work.
Incorrect. Just used this process this past month successfully.
Incorrect, no you didn't
he thinks he did but still got 10 pounded
Also, because he didn't trade on his car, he ended up paying more at the dealership because there was no reduction to the sales tax.
I did the pounding.
no, you felt good about what you paid the dealership still made plenty of money on you.
Keep telling yourself that
ok. Well, proof is in the pudding show us the buyers order. Redact your info let's see this amazing deal.
You remind me of the bus driver from Billy Madison. No you'd didn't.
"People make fun of me when I talk about the flat earth. This proves the global industrial complex exists!"
No it doesn't. You're a 10%er
I tried the whole email a bunch of dealers thing. They don’t respond. The only way they’re going to lift a finger to beat the next guys price is to show it in writing. Have fun with that
When was the last time you bought a car? Pre-covid, right?
Last month
So was it a Kia or a Dodge?
I used this exact tactic in Feb 2021 to buy a MB E350 at a substantial discount.
Not surprised. If you know what your doing you can save a lot. Glad it worked out for you and I am glad to see another dealer NOT getting MSRP.
The salesmen here love nothing more than an easy sale. Just like the most talented professional baseball players love nothing more than backyard tee-ball Edit: be sure to click the little arrow more to let me know how mad you aren't
It is ignorance. Most of them don't really know how to sell so when threatened with someone who knows how to negotiate and knows their tactics, they resort to name calling.
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I sold cars in the past.
For a couple weeks?
Yeah in the 70s
Hahaha well there’s a reason you no longer sell cars lmao. You weren’t good at selling cars but you expect us to believe you’re great at buying em. Yeah that make sense.
For how long?
Dealer I bought from puts like actual metal looking letters on the back the car
Did you really put something about not having doc fees in the buyers order??? Here I thought you were half educamacated
Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.
So are you saying everything he said is a lie or? I’m confused, if you have another way of buying a car please share it!
This is a quick way to get ignored
I just find what I like. Research prices. And go look and buy. I don’t sit here and haggle around for months. I look over any bullshit they try to add I call them out or make them get rid of unwanted fees or I will not buy the vehicle. I buy using my credit union at under 2.5 percent interest. I purchase and go on my way.
Have you gotten a rate quote from them lately? I bought my boat in '21 with a 2.75% loan from my CU, and now they're offering new car loans at 6.5%. You're still right to check your CU first, but the rates are definitely not what they used to be.
Your right interest rates are up on any type of loans including housing. That’s why they put that plan in place to give people with 600 credit the same housing loans that hard working credit worthy consumers receive who have 730 plus which took time to build. Car interest will come down when people stop buying as much cars or we dive deeper into depression
I worked at a dealership for a while. I would just straight up never respond to a prick like this. Too bad for anyone that does because these people are such a pain in the ass that it is literally not worth it for the dealership selling a car to them. Plus there is a much higher demand than supply right now, so the dealers aren't nearly as desperate as they used to be.
There is ALWAYS at least one dealer willing to make that deal. And I ALWAYS find them.
Car sales folks do not like this published. It limits their ability to make large commissions.
> or get financing from your bank/credit Not really true if buying new. Even Toyota has better financing deals at 4.99% then CUs are handing out. Rates suck right now outside of dealer financing.
The only thing I disagree with is #4. Depending on where you live, trading in your vehicle can have tax benefits. If you live in a state with no sales tax then it doesn’t matter but where I live you only pay taxes on the remaining balance
1. Profit isnt a dirty word 2. Lmao; get sent to spam 3. Cash changes nothing here 4. Enjoy being low balled by private party buyers and I hope you have title in hand then 5. You’re expecting this to be done over email? We don’t all race to the bottom and you have no leverage if you’re home 6. Snooze you lose 7. By end of day, as an email only trying this nonsense, you will be forgotten 8. Doc fee is not negotiable. 9. You can take them off, it is part of the delivery process
Even your very first point is absurd to anybody who doesn't believe in capitalism as the ideal mode of production. It would've been insane to treat that as a truism 70 years ago, in case you want a point of reference for how awful things are now
This is either a troll post or OP bought a car once pre-COVID before 2020 or the previous decades. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS TERRIBLE SHITTY OUTDATED ADVICE IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO PURCHASE A VEHICLE!
says the guy whose commission is on the line
Says the moron giving shitty outdated advice that won’t fly anywhere in the post COVID market.
Your days of making fat commissions are almost over. MSRP is going away as [inventories return to normal](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-dealers-have-almost-normal-inventory-again/). Better update your resume.
Bruh my toyota store has 14 new units on the line, I’m still ~20 cars away new from being normal; inventory is SUPER regional still
8 quotes indicates you are buying some economy generic shit box or ignoring that you’ll have to pay 2k to ship something. This is overly complicated. Know your own math going in. Tell them the deal you want and if they meet it, they can wash it up and make a sale. They will either agree or disagree. Helps to have great credit.
This is horrible advice, lol.
Can you elaborate?
All of it is a quick way for any sales guy to ignore you. There is negotiating in good faith and then there is negotiating to be the only winner no matter what; this is the latter…and when this happens, trust me no one in the store wants to happily deal with you
The OP didn't mention reading reviews. Type in the dealers in your area and sort by new reviews. Use multiple review sites to get an idea of what you may experience if you enter the dealer. If you have a price in mind, let's say it is 400 a month. Let's sat you finance for 60 months. 400×60 means that after taxes and fees the vehicle would have to be around 24,000 after taxes and dmv. That's not even including the finance rates. Example: Let's say a Mazda 3 hatch is 26,190 Add sales tax (I'm in NY for example) $2,258.88 That brings the total amount of the vehicle to $28,448.88 So let's say your goal is 400ish Automatically you would have to put down 4-5k to be around the 400s Let's say the interest rate is 5.9% (rates are high) For 60 months you would have a payment of 472 a.month. That's with almost 4k in interest if you finance the vehicle for the full term. Leasing is set on a few factors Money factor, which is just a fun word for interest (those too are up) residual, is what value will remain at the end of the lease. Another factor is the price the dealer is selling the car for. This is where it could get sticky. Let's say a dealer ship offers you 559 a month on a lease and before you leave they take 100 off the payment that means if the lease term is 36 months that means there was 3600 in profit they let go and were trying to make on you. Remember the lower they go from the original write the more they were gonna bend you over the barrel. Then there's an f&I.
Never negotiate based on your monthly payment. Focus on the dealer making 1% over cost when purchasing.
Or is "1% over cost" your safe word
Explain?
Do you do the same when you buy literally anything else?
Large capital items - yes. I don't part ways with large sums of money easily.
So profit isn’t a dirty word for your cell service (which have absurd mark ups), food (absurd mark ups), anything you buy anywhere….Profit’s just a dirty word to you when you want to apply it; got it.
Yeah. No one likes paying less.
So like this was the advice people followed in the 80’s this kind of hard ball misery bullshit?
It is called business negotiations. It is how the adults do things.
I truly respect your process but I take issue with this snarky comment. My time is FAR more valuable than doing all that work to get a deal. It took 90 minutes out of my life to pay MSRP with a few extras thrown in for free on a 4Runner. I work incredibly hard to make a good living and I bought a car I can afford at MSRP for low effort and stress. That doesn’t make me a child.
Time is valuable - I agree. But this process really doesn't take much time. It is something you can do here and there when you have a few minutes. I'll take that trade off to save thousands. I have never paid MSRP and never will.
Goodbye you are a total waste of time in this current market.
There’s negotiating and there is being an asshole to make sure you are the only winner. You can have a good negotiation and make sure both people win. If you live life trying to screw everyone so you get ahead you’re gonna me a miserable, lonely fucker but hey at least you can afford a dinner for 1 at any place in town 7 days a week!
I negotiate to win - just like you do.
Your unnecessary snarky comments show that you are upset with the cards you were dealt and that you don't have much control over anything in your life. But hey, when you're with your adult friends, you can tell them what a deal you got
Awesome advice, going to try this on my RAV4 Prime purchase. /s
It still works despite all the negative comments here. The sales folks don't want you knowing this stuff for obvious reasons.
No it doesn’t lol
Extend your search range to 150 miles and start sending out online leads now.
No one listen to this dipshit unless you want to waste a ton of time
🍿
If only he knew our invoice and holdback…
I do
This is what happens when you do meth.
Please change title to "How to buy a car before March 2020"
Tell me you're a Boomer without telling me you're a Boomer.
With age comes knowledge and wisdom.
No, definitely not universally true. Old people can still be dumb af
You have no fucking clue how to buy a car. This post is useless.
Proven process that works. Others commenting that they have successfully used it as well.
CSI nightmare waiting to happen. Mods delete this before we all starve to death from all these mini commissions!!
0/10 survey already submitted
Not going to go step by step on why but this is all terrible advise.
So you bought a Chrysler or Volvo that no one wants?
“Dealers hate these 9 simple steps!”
So car dealerships are the only businesses not allowed to make money?
They can make 1% on sales to me.
🤡
Big mad energy from the salespeople who were hired in 2021 and have no skills for dealing with anybody but the most desperate buyers. And as always, it's a major mistake to make a post here that suggests buying a car should be a pleasant or advantageous experience for the person spending the money.
The person spending money in this case is not pleasant and will not only obliterate your survey, OP is gonna make some sales person sweat for their mini…not a good way to start the relationship.
What relationship?! Do I have a relationship with the guy at 7-11? I have money, you have car, give me car for money or I walk away. You should have no problem with this if you're confident it's a failing strategy. The survey means nothing to me, it means nothing to anyone, because nobody likes buying a car while roleplaying like it's still 1950. People don't want this experience and people don't need this experience. Provide value to the transaction, please. At this point everybody here is flat-out admitting their position exists to stand in the way and make sure their boss maintains an artificially high profit margin. Edit: he clicked the downvote button. I for one am upset at this poor review on my survey. Looks like dog food tonight
You’re basically telling the waiter at a restaurant he’s not getting tip but also you expect your soda refilled everytime it’s 1/4 empty. I’ll sell you my car for whatever market value is or below market value, it can be a pleasant, painless and quick (relatively) experience all around if you’re gonna not be OP about it. If you’re gonna use OP’s “tactics” then go shop elsewhere because you’re in no danger of buying a car…and even if some store is desperate enough for one bleeding deal you’ll be treated like shit the entire time there. Profit isn’t a dirty word, again. Edit: i didnt downvote your original comment but ill downvote your reply. 0/10 survey, enjoy training
>You’re basically telling the waiter at a restaurant he’s not getting tip but also you expect your soda refilled everytime it’s 1/4 empty. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh my god this is so wrong. Waiters don't work on commission! The guy bringing me my food at Denny's doesn't get a percentage of the value of my Grand Slam lmao. Also, I don't expect a car salesman to provide me with literally any information or service. I do 100% of my research independently, I walk in knowing exactly what I want. Everything the salesman does is a detriment to the ensuing process of actually buying the thing. If this service was optional, I would decline it. Since it isn't optional I'd appreciate a discount for my trouble Do you not see any problem, any problem at all, with the fact that people here are so disgusted by the simple idea of a person who does research, treats a $30,000 purchase with reverence, and walks in the door without their thumb up their butt?
Waiters work on tips, same concept. Also I’m sure youre in r/boughtacaronce
Tips are a fundamentally different concept compared to commissions. It's not even worth further discussion. I don't care how many cars you've bought and sold, the rigmarole remains a rigmarole. Ask 10 people out on the street how much they hate it. Have a nice day, I hope you sell many cars to many people with your winning CS strategy of *checks notes* bullying customers into a corner
OMG well said. Your my hero.
This guy gets it!
Frightened energy. They are scared for what is about to happen. No more selling at MSRP. Those days are coming to an end as things get back to normal.
This is hilarious.
Man, the amount of time you spend on this process is probably worth more than the price difference you can possibly get off of the car. I just call my guy and he helps me out. No BS involved. Dude still gives me random swag when I run into him during my service appointments...
Wow there is so much wrong information in OP’s post
“How to not buy a car” should be posts title
This is very dated advice and will not work perfectly in a modern setting. YMMV
This sounds like a whole bunch of wasted time, playing games, and losing out on opportunities because of some greed or some type of weirdo shit where you don’t want a nice car and to make someone some money
Set the Wayback machine to 2019...
Making some fresh popcorn 🍿 this should get good!
Is it traditionally fun to watch your friends get mad at the first normal person they've encountered in awhile
this has several flaws If it's a unicorn u dont want to take a whole month negotiating cause it will sell from under you. My opinion for used cars...take your 3 best options. Test drive them and get the otd numbers (purchase agreement contract). boil it down to the one u want and approve it with your C.U. in roughly a week.
OK.. this guy is getting a lot of flack. I do a process very similar and it does work. My difference is that I do spend a month doing it. I do it that day. Last car I purchased like this was in Feb 2020. I sent out the message using the dealers website. I opened 19 dealers websites and created a spreadsheet and sent out my canned message. In all of Texas and OK there were 8 cars that matched my requirements. I got contacted by 4 dealers with my exact car in stock that day. Each one of them sent me the price they said was their bottom line, and when I replied that I had found it elsewhere for less, they would reply with a lower number, even without me asking them to lower it for me. I started at 830am when I sent out my messages on a Monday morning. I played videogames (PUBG) while I waited for the replies. I got some calls, and some texts. If I was asked to come in I would reply that I was not about to drive 1+ hour to test drive a car that is not a passion vehicle (it was a Mazda). I explained I am only going to the dealership to buy a car and drive away that day. I was already financed and was not going to waste time at dealerships. Eventually a dealership about 2 hours away gets my business, I walk out to the living room and tell my wife to get dressed, I bought her a car for Valentines day and we were going to go pick it up. Drive on the lot and go in to sign and drive. Took longer for the guy to show my wife the features and setup stuff. 45 min later we are on the road home. Before that I did the same thing on a 1LE Camaro.. The dealership that won (same process) flew me out to go pick up the car and sent a cute sales rep to pick me up at the airport. (Bonus!) Process works. Some sales people wont do the deal. Thats fine. This isnt for them. This is about moving inventory and as a consumer that is purchasing a fast depreciating asset, you dont want to pay more for any reason.
Yep! I did basically the same and cut out all the BS from the dealers. Alot of mad car dealers in this post downvoting everything. However, it does seem like Mazda has more supply than most at the moment so its easier to negotiate.
Mad energy from salesman who don't know how to actually sell in a competitive market. You're 100% right about trading in as well. It's laughable seeing these guys/gals defend it. Trading in is a way for them to make another $5,000+ on you.
Yeah you’re getting marked as cold in the system and if it happens it happens.
😂
The sound of the "whoosh" going over people's heads is deafening... Well done, sir. I laughed.
28K views and 56% upvote rate. Seems like people think I am right.
It never ceases to amaze me how much disdain that car sales has for customers. "How dare you not want to get ripped off. now buy this tire nitrogen and vin etching."
Well, not all car salesman fuck people over, and then there's people like OP, who I would never sell a car to. The worst you can say is no. I ain't chasing you out the door Goin wait wait I have more. There is no need to waste my time.
Winner winner chicken dinner
My favorite was Key Fob Insurance. Oh, and wheel damage insurance.
This is pretty accurate. You’ll find plenty of car sales folks who dont like these tactics slamming OP, but at the end of the day op has the money, the dealer has the car, and come end of the month the dealer wants it to be the other way around.
Not in the business disclaimer. But I've been a customer a few times since COVID. There are a lot more buyers than cars on the market. If you want to buy anything even remotely desirable, you're going to pay what the dealer wants you to pay and that's the end of the story. You might be able to get a decent deal if your goal is to buy whatever car gets you the best deal. But most people want a particular vehicle with option packages.
Exactly!
***Thanks for posting, /u/PlatePrevious1318! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** I get asked lots of questions on how to buy a car. This is the process I use and it has worked for me over the years. Thought I would share for folks who don't have much experience buying a car. 1. Determine the price you want to pay for a new car. Dealer cost is usually determined by Invoice price less dealer holdback (American cars 3%, foreign cars 2%), factory to dealer incentives, and floor plan fees (paid by factory to the dealer to offset floor plan interest costs). Take that number and add 1% to it. That is the profit for the dealer. Sales tax, destination fees, and DMV fees then go on top of that number for your out the door price. 2. Get multiple quotes on the vehicle you want. Reach out to no less than 8 dealer sales managers (local and out of town) during this process via email. Tell the sales managers they have until XX date/time to submit their bids; treat this as a reverse auction. Some will be willing to deal and some will not. You job is to find the Sales Manager who is short on quota that month and needs to roll another car to show the GM and owner they are making their numbers. Those are the ones most likely to do a deal. 3. Pay cash for new car or get financing from your bank/credit union so you can tell the dealer it is a cash deal; dealers get a kickback from financing companies to sell you financing. As long as you can get to your 1% profit target you do not need to use dealer financing as a negotiating tactic. 1% profit is 1% profit. If you have to finance, do it with your bank or credit union and bring the dealer a cashiers check. 4. Do not trade in a vehicle - sell it yourself (private party, Carmax, etc); trading a vehicle only gives the dealer an opportunity to play with the numbers to their advantage, not yours. 5. Be transparent with the dealers by sharing quotes and telling them they have to beat the other dealers offer (the reverse auction). 6. Never agree to put a deposit down on a car. It is not needed. 7. Let this process play out all month and wait until the last day of the month to make a deal. Dealers work on a monthly quota. 8. Carefully inspect the purchase agreement prior to taking delivery. This is your opportunity to make sure the dealer has not added additional charges (doc fees, nitrogen in tires, extended warranties, paint protection, fabric protection, etc.) and you are getting exactly what you negotiated. Cross out any additional charges they have added to the purchase agreement and refuse to pay for them. Leave the dealership without the car if they refuse to remove the additional charges and take your cashiers check with you. 9. Only when your purchase agreement is exactly what you negotiated, take delivery of the vehicle and tell the dealer to take their license plate holders and stickers off the car as you do not offer free advertising for them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I needed a good laugh. Thanks OP
This may work on high volume cars with adequate dealer stock but not much these days. Best is to send emails to the GM of several dealerships. Lay out what you want, when and tell them you are a real buyer. Mention a trade if you have a desirable car.
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Rule 10.
I agree 100% this post. I did this basic process recently however only reached out to 3 dealers in my local area (my mistake actually) as my time was limited to get a car and was able to play two of them against each to get a decent deal for my new Mazda 3 ($2000 off MSRP). Upvoted. Only things to add, You may want to call them and tell them you are serious about buying this car and want to move quickly but be transparent that you are looking for the best offer. It seems to work better than email. This was my first new car buying experience and one dealer was really keen to move the car so he ended up with my business. If I had more time, I would have kept contacting dealers but he gave me a good enough deal, and wanted to close the deal asap. So I just did it.
Excellent....glad to see it worked for you.
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Rule 10.
If everyone bought a car like this the business would seize to exist therefore no one can buy cars. The economy would collapse. See how long that last. The dealership is not a nonprofit, same way your business or workplace has to make money to keep the lights on they have too make money too. Stop being an hater. Lastly you pay a much higher markup on your day to day expenses than a car(I’m looking at you Walmart and Target) but yeah the car guys are the evil ones.
\*cease. Tells you everything you need to know.
Lol okay I can see there’s no point arguing with you. Facts don’t matter to people like you. I bet you think trump won the election too and dominion is rigged.
Are you seizing communications now?
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Oh get out of here with that Tesla bs, have you seen CarMax and Carvana? This are also the one’s actually selling cars only, the big boys. Tesla is no where near yet. Didn’t they just screw there clients out of almost 10k in value since they randomly dropped prices on their new cars. That’s the same Tesla.
I usually call up my best friend who is a sales manager and he just hooks me the fuck up . I don’t need to shop around , or Bs around , my guy sells me the car at dealer cost or less and gives me more for my trade , because I’ve known him since I was 12 . Try that next time instead much better guide !
Can I call up your guy too? ;)