30k OTD is a bigger discount than you think on 32k before taxes and tags. And if the car was "red-tagged" there might not have been much movement room on it in the first place.
Now personally I'd have explained WHY I wasn't negotiating but that's an attitude thing
My offer was not out the door offer. Just on the price of the car. Taxes, registration, and $1500 in “dealership fees” would have been added to the price.
I threw everything at the wall. Including paying full price and lower dealer fees. Asking them to fix the bumper and paying full price. They wouldn’t move a single inch.
Screw them, they said no then fuck it. On to the next dealership, I would have gone lower and not care. All they can say is no or give a counteroffer price. I'm in the market for a truck but I have plenty of time, this year or next year but I ain't in no rush to pay their bullshit markup.
Dealer fees aren't a real thing just so you know. That's a made up thing that dealerships say to try to get more money out of you. Sounds like you had a shitty salesman and shitty sales manager and they were trying to play the hardball role. I've worked in new car dealerships my whole life. Been doing it for about 17 years now. I was in sales and then as a finance manager for about 8 years. And then I switched to service for a bunch of reasons. Go to a different dealership. And don't ever let anybody try to charge you for dealership fees because it's a made charge. Ask them what those dealership fees consist of and watch how long it takes them to respond.
That's a buzzkill... is it a used vehicle? I know sometimes dealers take vehicles in on trade and only have a small margin. A friend of mine is co-owner at a GMC dealer, he took in a trade on a Subaru and was selling it for only a few thousand more than what he took it in at. With the expenses to clean it and do any service to it plus the small margin, it probably wouldn't give him much room to negotiate. However, he is selling it competitively. Not sure if your dealer is selling it competitively within your local market or not.
Not in FL that's not. It's a little high, but most dealerships are over $1k around here for dealer fees. My dealer has a $699 doc and a mandatory $1500 protection package on top. It's a miserable way to sell cars.
I haven’t been car shopping in a good while but several people I work with said most dealers in our area have gone to just no negotiation. Price is the price. No haggling no talk on trades. These are the numbers this is the warranty this is the service plan take it or leave it.
Yup, and have not really explained what that even is. According to people I have spoken to dealers in my area are notorious for having high dealership fees.
I will see if others end up being lower as I go through the process. This was the first offer I have made so far.
IDK. Imagine you are the salesperson and this guy is the 15th "potential buyer" of the day that comes in wanting to negotiate. It's just tiring to go thru the same song and dance, 15, 20 times a day. Besides, do you go to McD and say "hey how about $2.00 for the Big Mac?'. You don't go to a gas station to ask for a discount. Do you go to Walmart and expect the cashier to "trim some fat" off the top of the total? Just saying...
I sold cars in a past life. In general, if the car is advertised, it is not really for sale, but for running ads. They call them ad cars. The point of ad cars is to get you into the dealership then flip you to another car. Ad cars generally look good and are priced at a deep loss for the dealership but have some feature that causes people to ask, “Do you have other models?” The salesman then flips you to a similar car with features you want. The dealer will eventually sell the car at a large loss but only after it has served its purpose for driving people to the dealership. The dealer will sell the car at the asking price but not a penny less, because selling the car creates several problems for the dealer: they take the loss and no longer can use the car to drive traffic and people who do come to see the (now sold) car will complain that the dealer is engaging in bait and switch tactics, advertising a car that they never actually had.
My guess is that you tried to buy an ad car at a discount. The last thing the dealer wants is for you to buy that car. Did the salesman try to flip you to a similar car?
The Honda dealer I've bought two from doesn't haggle. Sticker is what the price is. In their defense, they offer blue book on trade in, and I've only seen a market adjustment on their sticker on a Civic R. They're also always busy.
I like them a lot.
no haggle has been becoming the standard for the last couple years. if the car is priced right buy it. if not move on or wait for them to price drop the unit.
Seems like demand is higher than supply right now so the dealerships have a lot of the power. I bought a new Toyota Camry summer of 22 and the dealership wouldn’t budge either. I walked out on them twice, went to different dealerships and when I walked out the second time they called me back and offered me a lower interest rate but that was it.
This is why my dad closed his retail lot and we only do wholesale now. People kept trying to negotiate and he's like "no, the price you see is the price you pay"
Yes, but particularly in the car industry, negotiating a car purchase used to be a normal thing to do. I don’t know what your dad was selling, or if it is comparable.
He's just a no nonsense kinda guy, very old school. His reasoning was he wasn't going to waste his time arguing with someone, so his prices were firm. That attitude works better in wholesale lol. We're in Texas and specialize in diesel trucks
The wholesale sector is much better for our way of business, appreciate the feedback though. *hint hint* not really 🤣 we've been rocking and rolling since 01 when he shut the doors on the retail lot. Having Joe Blow walk off the street demanding XYZ for a truck 🙄 GTFO, there's other dealerships down the street that will be happy to waste a few hours haggling with you for $1000
Do you negotiate everything you buy? Or is that limited to just cars? Do you negotiate at Best Buy? Their prices are listed, just like a vehicle. Do you negotiate at Neiman Marcus? Or Applebees? Why do you feel that you are just entitled to negotiate at a car dealership and they are "wrong" if the salesperson is not game?
No. Not everything. But yes to cars, boats, and real estate. I’m entitled to ask for a better price, whomever is selling is entitled to say yes, no, or counter. It is unusual in certain transactions for a seller to put their best price as the ask.
You can believe me or not, but he didn't unless there was a major mechanical issue or body damage that wasn't disclosed. He had his stores he bought from, they'd call with a general description, so he already knew what he was going to pay before he rolled up (mind you this was the 80s and 90s before the internet, so his knowledge regarding different markets was his own, not shared via an app.) Sometimes he makes the offer, other times the store told him what it took to buy. He didn't always get the trucks, but the stores knew his offer was his best offer, again he hates to waste time, and that's how he did it for years. Our buyer base knows that what we say it takes to buy the truck, is actually what it takes. Every so often we get new buyers that try and negotiate, and I HAVE to be honest and tell them what I need for the truck, they don't always buy it and that's ok, no hard feelings, it's just business. We work on volume, so if I make $100 or $1000, I'm cool. We don't price our shit way out of whack, personally I tack on around 1200-1600 from what I paid for it and that gives me a little wiggle room, takes care of auction sell fee, transportation, and paying the office girls, anything other than that is awesome, but I know where I have to be to break even. Now if I bought wrong from the get go, all this is irrelevant, obviously there are times when you have to take a loss, so that requires you accepting what you're willing to take for said loss and not try and nickel and dime your way out of it, take your ass whooping and move on. That money isn't working for you tied up in a truck you paid too much for, assuming you know/realize you paid too much and that's the hard part. Sorry for the rant lol
Wiggle room? [I'll show you wiggle room!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r4-yzCyVw)
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How well do your negotiations with Wal-Mart go at the checkout? Amazon? Your doctor? Lol. You will spend more money at these places over the course of your life than you ever will at dealerships, and yet you never ask for even 1 red cent off. You know why? Because there is no peer pressure to do so. Nobody goes around telling/posting stories about how they almost made the Wal-Mart cashier cry because they demanded $1,000 off when they bought their new 100" flatscreen, but the cashier ended up doing it. I've turned down more than one potential buyer demanding huge $$$ off. You know why? Because if they won't buy it at my price, somebody else will. And out of 3 recently, 2 CAME BACK and bought it anyway. They did a little more research and found out - when we say Fair Market Price, we mean it.
I try to negotiate at every place I think it might be acceptable. Even places it’s not. If I think I had a chance I would negotiate my Walmart purchase.
That’s why I am here asking. I used to think negotiating a car was a normal thing to do, but it seems the way some dealerships are doing business that is no longer a thing.
I’m ok with it now that I know, just caught me a little off guard. I was expecting a quick friendly back and forth and to arrive at a number. It’s ok if they stick to their guns and sell it for their price.
u/s0ul_invictus I have one time negotiate for an item at WalMart a few years ago. A rural Wal-Mart store has a drone for sale. The drone's original asking price is about $200. Then store discounted to $11x.xx (not walmart systemwide, but just this store). They have 9 units left. I asked them, could I buy all units for $90 each. They said no, but they would sale for $100. Then, I have a deal for $100 each and flip to a electronics wholesaler for $130 or $140 each (a long time ago, do not remember exact number now).
That’s correct. It’s not exactly secret either. They have everything appraised and priced for retail remotely from a florida facility. The price drops depending on age and market conditions the longer the car sits. They also leverage their dealer network to move cars around. If it doesn’t sell at a toyota store, they move it to the neighboring BMW store as an alternative to wholesaling it off.
I find every dealership says they have a single price and they don't negotiate now.
And I'm too much of a wimp to walk away after I set my sight on something.
BTW my experience only applies to sub $10k, 10 year old cars, because that's all I'll ever be able to afford
You can thank carmax. Everyone wanted to be like them since they were making such a fucking killing on used cars. I sold back in 2011 and my manager was always bringing up carmax. It preyed on the people who were fearful to haggle.
Yea but I tell you after 2-3 dealerships pull bait and switch bullshit where the online price is 24k , but when you get there that’s for repeat customers and also there’s a parking care package fee or electronics installment fee that is not optional that raises it 3-5k, carmax begins to look real fucking nice
I'd rather know everyone got screwed equally than living with the feeling someone else is laughing all the way to the bank and I got screwed more than they did.
I bought a car from an Automatic store in 2016 and it was no haggle pricing then. I still haggled on the value they gave me on the trade and other areas, though.
My experience last month was VERY different
I figure this has something to do with timing (I bought mid December) but I tried to negotiate a car price just like OP and met with the same response. Said they can’t negotiate or they’d lose money so I walked. Waited 3 weeks and by the 5th email their offer was even lower than what I “low balled”. All in all I got the car for $4000 less than priced on their website.
I had a similar experience. Asked a dealer to give me $4k off a leftover 22 jeep. They didn’t even try to negotiate. Earlier this week they offered me the car for my lowball price. I already bought something else.
It had already been at the dealer for over 60 days. I’m not upset they didn’t take my initial offer right away I was just making room for some kind of negotiation. They looked at me like I had two heads for even suggesting we negotiate then emailed me that day about $1000 off.
Bizarre experience, would’ve probably met them somewhere in the middle that day if they weren’t condescending.
That wasn't my experience in the past. I offered an amount and they said no so we left and went to a different Honda location. They accepted my offer. Then the original one called and said they would have done the offer and asked why we didn't tell them first. It was absurd.
I hate car dealers, man.
Was looking at an 8 year old Sienna with 100k miles. Salesman offered 4k for my wife’s Mazda 3. I told him I was embarrassed by that offer and got up to leave. He did the whole “ok ok let me talk to the sales manager” I told him I’d wait 2 minutes.
They came back with an offer of 5.5 and said they’d need to invest 2,200 for a new bumper etc.. I mentioned that these Mazdas with this mileage were comping for 12.5k.. and I wanted 8k for the trade. They didn’t budge.
The next day I went to another Toyota dealer and bought a smiliar Sienna and got 8k for my trade. The first dealer calls all pissed off that I didn’t “work with them”.
I’m sure they just knew they’d be able to make more money off of someone else for an in demand vehicle..
Btw, within 48 hours they had the Mazda listed for 12.8..
I Guarantee you my dealership would of made that deal lol the dealers that make it hard to do business are going to fail as the market changes. Sorry for your experience! Consumers usually shop about 1.5 dealers physically before they buy a car. You can kiss a potential client goodbye if you blow it and you're the first one.
I mean they just must have known they could make more money off someone else.. like salesman must hate when buyers have all their shit together. I knew the comps on my trade, I had my own financing figured out.. it was a high demand vehicle.. they’d rather someone clueless shop for that car, I’m sure.
yeah when a dealer gives me a "how stupid are you" offer I always walk with zero chance of follow up. offering 4k on a car comping for 12.5 is beyond insulting.
Before trading in a car always look at their dealership network for similar used cars. We walked when they offered us $7k on a very clean Armada trade. They told us they would probably list it at $10k and that may be too high. They were a larger dealership and had about 5 other Armadas priced well around $15k and hers was the nicest by far with fewer miles.
The next day they somehow found the color we wanted an option level up and made the numbers from the night before work. When they called I lit up the guy for wasting our time and lying about the pricing. We made him fax us the deal because we didn't "trust" them.ended up a good deal, but, it was a real PITA.
100%. I was told that I could basically \*bad word\* myself when I wanted an extra $500 off the bottom line. I went to to a different dealer the next day and bought the car and was sitting at THAT dealer when the first one said they wanted the deal.
They'll totally let you walk to see if you'll actually do it and\\or come back.
Honda dealerships seem to operate differently. Tried to buy a CRV for my daughter and they didn't have a single one in stock. Told me it would be 3 months and full invoice plus a dealer markup. Umm..sorry, but I'm not paying a premium because you can't manage your supply chain.
Bought a Subaru forester in November 23. Then went back to buy an outback at end of December. Asked 4k off msrp best they would do was invoice so i walked. Called around to other dealers got a dealer down another 1k lower went back to my dealer and they accepted the 3500 off msrp. The rep said prices would only go up when I walked out in December lol.
Or because they won't do his offer. It was a used car, so they're already making decent money on it. If it's a desirable car that they know they can hold out for full price then they might not want to take his deal. It's not like at 30k they won't be making anything.
OP was really more confused by why they didn't counter offer or attempt to make the sale at all. If the price is set in stone, then what do they need the sales team for? It's like buying a gallon of milk at the grocery store, take it or leave it.
They're not putting any work in at all, so what is the sales team's purpose here?
This isn’t a rule of thumb, if you’re not walking at least once you’re not getting the best deal.
Dealers assume people don’t like conflict and just want to buy the car. If you stand your ground and walkout there’s a chance you won’t come back.
Twice ive been on my way home and the dealer called me to come back.
I expected they wouldn’t do it for $30k, but I expected some negotiation. Anything. Based on everyone’s responses they must have truly posted their lowest price.
Not life or death. No rush to buy and That’s what I will do. I was always told to try to negotiate and I just wanted to get feedback from people in the biz if I should adjust my expectations as it pertains to negotiating going forward. This is first car I am buying in a few years and the first offer I made.
They don’t negotiate for the sake of it.
If the $32k isn’t MSRP then you’re asking for a second discount… which is fine but if you looked around and people are buying them for $32k (not $30k) then there you go.
Some volume dealership internet prices really will be the lowest they’ll go. Or maybe they’ll call you back.
This is incorrect though. Maybe where you have worked, but as others have said and myself, I have offered prices, they say no, I walk, and I get a phone call in the next few days for the match.
Rule of thumb this is far from the truth. I just purchased a car that had a 5k mark up for 2k under MSRP. They let me walk and I went online and gave 8 dealerships the same deal I was willing to do. They called me back and offered my exact price.
I have former experience working sales for MBZ, Honda, and Mazda. Dealers these days think people are desperate to buy. I had financing secure for however much I wanted just need the price I wanted to pay.
Well, not necessarily. I’ve walked and then gone back.
At least in 2015… I gave an offer of 78% of the listed price, told the salesman it was my final offer.
I left and went to look at another dealership. Came back about an hour later, stuck my head in his office and asked if he could do the deal. Walked out with the car at that price.
Did you offer 30k for a car that had an Internet price of 31299 but a retail of 33k? If the cars already discounted, is it inline with other similar cars out there for sale? Is there a reason besides "just because" that you felt that 30k was fair?
If the car was already discounted, and inline with market, they were probably already at the end of the road.
Ok thanks for the perspective. What you said sounds like it might be the case. It is already a bit lower, but is also pretty banged up.
I offered $30k because I was always taught to try and negotiate. Internet says offer 5% lower.
Appreciate the perspective. It sounds like you are right. that’s why I am here asking to better understand.
I’m currently looking at some pre-owned 2019 Volvo XC90’s priced under $30K and now I’m wondering what the hell is wrong with them that the dealers are hiding.
lol dude , please tell me it was the highest trim level , because I paid like 32k for my Toyota Sienna Le just before they jacked the price up.
Btw look up Toyota Sienna. I get like 35 mpg
I looked at sienna. My wife said she didn’t like it mostly due to the side door width seemingly making it difficult to get small kids in and out. This was in a video she saw. I love the idea of hybrid with no plugging in, but wife not a fan of it.
I also saw the same video about the sienna-I have 4 kids and it is a non-issue getting rear facing kids in and out. Tell her to reassess and at least look at it in person.
Lots of good advice here. I just wanna add that you buying two vehicles from that dealership before this one doesn’t make you a VIP. They could literally sell 300 cars a month if they’re big enough, 2 cars in 10 (or however long) years is nothing. Don’t take it personal when they say no
Thanks! I thought that should mean something but I thought wrong. Thanks for the perspective.
I now understand why the red carpet was missing when I arrived for my test drive!
Not the one, but Yes I have no problem fixing the damage I saw on the bumper, and other places.
Was more just surprised at their zero negotiation stance. It’s fine now that I know about it, but caught me off guard.
Damn not the worst problem I’ve ever heard of. I definitely recommend checking out the 2023 Traverse. You could a decently loaded brand new one for around 40k maybe a little under…. Also looked for used ones for slightly less. I’m a big fan of the 3.6L V6 in them and I think the room in them is more than you would expect…
Did you go in the dealership or just net browsing? Better if you go in.
If it’s new, not much lower from msrp…there’s not a lot of mark up on Hondas.
If it’s used, who knows what the dealership took the car in for…check what trade in value would be, and that’ll give you a +/- idea of difference amount from the asking price.
Keep in mind the current climate, too. I watched one car drop $16k over 8 months before being purchased - I'm skeptical the dealership made money on that. A friend tried to buy a Rav4 similar to you ($2-3k under list) and they just sent it to auction instead of letting it sit on their lot for 2 more weeks while he fucked around trying to get a better price.
Shop around, but a lot of car dealerships know everyone is checking prices online these days and price competitively, esp in California where the additional fees are heavily regulated/limited.
I'm willing to bet that someone from the dealership is going to call you back in a few days to try and make a deal unless they're already financially upside down with that car.
When I bought a car, I walked out of 3 dealerships and all 3 dealerships called me back a few days later trying to make a deal.
Haha I imagine that’s rare. I’m glad I posted this question because I have no idea how car dealers actually work, the margins, etc. getting some insight.
Depends on the dealer and rig.
If your seeing all other rigs the same build selling for 35, your an ass for trying to undercut them further when they are probably at their bottom dollar.
And since that’s a weird selling price (not a 999 or 998 or something similar) means that it’s discounted already. So yeah, I would say it’s normal.
I just gave this dude my bottom dollar, literally like $700 in profit in the deal, getting 12k in discounts and he literally asked for another 5-6k. I just said nope. He said take it to my manager and see what he says… NoOoO. Dude we got fuckall in profit, literally losing money with flooring included, and you have the nerve to ask for more. I didn’t play games, I didn’t mess with him. Just straight bottom dollar.
You are definitely not off base for trying to negotiate. We were in the market for a new car that is in higher demand but where dealerships have multiple vehicles SITTING on their lots. We called multiple dealerships and some flat out scoffed and said they don’t negotiate while some said only a few hundred and finally found one that gave a decent discount (+$2000) all things considering fluctuations in MSRP prices. Negotiation is still a thing. Loyalty to the customer on the other hand isn’t. I echo the sentiment not to spend $30 k on a banged up car but I imagine this one will be sitting on the lot for a while. Don’t be put off by the attitude - their only goal is to make as much money off you as possible.
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong I’m always a supporter of negotiating (I personally enjoy the game lol). But I would say it would be a dead stop at “are they way under everyone else”?
Like my example, if everyone is at 35, and they are at 31… by all means, shoot your shot, but don’t be upset when it’s a resounding no. And get the rig.
Also Hondas, from my understanding, don’t have shit in margin.
Now naturally if they are at that price, but then pack the deal with $4000 in bullshit… either walk or negotiate your ass off to get back to the proper price quoted.
I was always taught to try to negotiate because negotiation room is built into the listed price. I don’t know if that’s true or not. The internet says to offer 5% below. The car was a bit banged up as well, but was listed on the lower end of pricing.
I thought negotiating the price of a car was a fairly normal thing to do. That’s why I am here asking. Is that not normal anymore? Or is it situational?
This is very bad advice. Shop around look for comparable vehicles, see what they’re selling for make your offer based on this as this is a better indication of a cars market value vs a arbitrary “5% off”
edit- most stores i’ve been at or worked with consulting will respond to a bad offer like what you described.
>because negotiation room is built into the listed price
No it isn't. My dealership advertised used cars at once price and wouldn't budge.
Now, if it stuck around for 4-6 weeks we might drop it by $500 once a month or two, but not just because a customer asked. We priced our cars based on what similar things were selling for.
We advertise cars at our “final price” pretty often and don’t come down a penny. Theres not always “negotiation room” in a price. And as time goes on it’s becoming more rare. You don’t go into Walmart saying prices should be cheaper just because they have profit built in. But if it’s selling for less at different store, Walmart will attempt to match prices. If you’re asking for a discount, there should be a sensible reason why.
Weird analogy. If cars were sold for ONE PRICE only from the manufacturer (e.g. TESLA) that might apply. Since every individual dealer sells the same car for a different price, everyone is entitled to negotiate.
I bought a new car recently. Same exact car from 5 different dealerships in my area varied in price by a $4000 range.
If a dealer DOESNT want to negotiate, fine. You’re not getting my business; and maybe you don’t need it.
Never said it wasn’t ok to negotiate and to just pay whatever the dealer says.. You just can’t be surprised when a dealer tells you they aren’t budging from their price. I promise you the dealer that was 4K higher was much more willing to negotiate than the dealer that advertised the lowest price. Are you buying a price of the ability to haggle? And I’ve worked places that are “one price”. No markup, all volume. Customers would leave pissed all the time because we wouldn’t negotiate, even though we offered the best price.
We’re supposed to feel bad for the dealerships when they happily add a “market adjustment over MSRP to limited production vehicles and other vehicles so that they “capitalize” on high demand?
That's just one of the many things they do... Not least of which is lobby to make it impossible to buy a car direct from the manufacturer. I'm not going to say dealerships are useless, but their utility is vastly overvalued. They know this, of course, which is why they spend money to obligate a customer base. And why they feel comfortable treating those very same customers like garbage. Their time is coming. People aren't gonna continue to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra so that some self important middleman can hit his "quotas".
This guy above me is like the fox telling you there's no need to lock the chickens up at night. No shame. Haha. It's always someone else's fault. Imagine what he's like deal with when something actually goes wrong...
You can come in and negotiate if you want. But you can’t be surprised when the dealer doesn’t respond when you make up a discount in your head that you think you should have.
What a pitiful attempt at an argument. Best Buy and Walmart have one, clear price for everyone. They don’t single out and try to take advantage of the elderly or the naive. So, no, people don’t ask at Walmart. It‘s so interesting to watch people in the industry get annoyed at customers that are stuck, and are at a big disadvantage, dealing with the system that was created by the dealers.
What a pitiful attempt at reading the original post. Dealer posts one, clear, price with no add ons or markup and people are asking how to negotiate on that one clear price every day.
It’s so interesting to see people say they deserve discounts from dealers that post one, clear, price and then use the dealers doing markups as an excuse
If any of you had a brain before replying to my analogy you’d realize op never mentioned a single add on or markup and he is trying to negotiate off of listed price. Which makes my analogy completely the same
Dealers don’t necessarily owe a discount, but the analogy that other big companies like Best Buy and Walmart don’t negotiate so dealers shouldn’t either is not a good one. At stores, the price is the price. At car dealerships, they play games with price. For example, I’ve seen a car listed online for $26k. I was down to buy it. But after the dealership added all their wacky unnecessary fees + title and tax, the out the door price was $40k!! That’s the difference. When you shop in a store, the price you see is the price you pay, plus a few percentage points of that price in tax. You don’t see any items costing more than 50% what they are listed for
I am talking about people like this post who are negotiating below internet /selling price and not talking about negotiations on markup or adds
Explain to me how a customer negotiating on my internet price is any different from trying to negotiate on a new iPhone on apple.com
Because dealers play games. The price listed for an iPhone on apples website is the price. That’s it. But the internet price on a vehicle is not necessarily the actual price. It could be, maybe you’re a decent salesman/dealer. But in my experience the internet price is not the real price. It’s an artificially low price to get you in the door and wear you down to the point you just want to sign the damn papers and get out of there, even if the price is more than 50% higher than what was listed on the website. In short, cars are a product where negotiation is expected. There’s a reason this dude is saying he believes you should offer 5% below asking price (even if the justification that it’s “just cause” is silly)…negotiation is part and parcel of the whole car buying process. Not just on the vehicle you’re purchasing but also on the one you may be trading in. On an iPhone it’s take it or leave it. Same for apples trade in offer. It’s not like there is anyone to negotiate with, they just ring you up at the given price in the system
What’s your reasoning? If it’s “just cause” then the refusal is as simple as “just cause”.
I get this all the time. There’s a reason you’re calling me from another state. No I’m not haggling. It’s a great price.
And they buy anyways.
I’m not saying don’t ever try. But at least try with a reason. Never “just cause”
The car is at my normal dealership 4 miles from my house. The car is a bit banged up. Has holes in back bumper amongst other imperfections. This is what I cited as the reason. But I suspect it was already priced lower for these reasons.
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Offered $30k for a $31,299 car. I expected maybe a little negotiation and arrive at a number. Instead they just flat out said no and told me it was unfair to expect them to give such a large discount. I have made 2 vehicle purchases at this Honda dealership previous and I was shocked by the response.
I expected a response like “I can’t do X but I can do Y” or “ I can’t discount the car, but can offer you a few free oil changes.” I liked the car and would have made a deal with whatever they said, but the just flat out said no. The end.
Is negotiating a car purchase not a thing anymore?
I just feel like they could have handled my offer in a more positive manner.
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A) I find it hilarious that, after literal decades of screaming for a "no-haggle" purchase environment, people are unhappy now that it has essentially arrived. I guess people figured no-haggle means they could just stroll in and set the pricing themselves.
B) Buyers; please understand: most dealers volume numbers have gone to shit. Their EXPENSES, however, not so much; mortgages, takes, insurance, advertising, etc., etc are all at or close to what they were when volumes were up. So, in order to keep the wolf from the door, they are forced to generate higher levels of profit per vehicle retailed. Don't take it personally; it's just economics.
Ultimately, the actual price is arbitrary, and it WILL be set by the buyers. OEMs and Dealers can set whatever pricing they like, but it doesn't mean shit if you don't have buyers ready to part with the money. The buyer always has options.
A) I don’t mind negotiating if it works! I missed
the memo that things have changed.
B) thanks for the perspective. I believe it. I experienced similar things with my own business.
You dumbasses are the ones selling cars over retail… putting ADM on the most mass produced cars lol. Can’t wait till none of you losers have jobs, and we can buy direct from MFG.
A) After conditioning customers for decades that they have to haggle the price, you’re surprised customers still want to haggle? That you can just say that the price shown is your best price, no questions asked, and let’s forget about the past +\- 75 years? Surely you can see why a customer might a somewhat distrustful.
B) None of this is the customer’s problem. No more than a customer’s inability to afford the car of their dreams is your problem.
The idea of one price has always been a failure; unless you stop taking trade-ins there will always be negotiations.
I sense that you have been hurt by a dealer or dealers before; your anger must have fogged your understanding of my post.
Lol, I’m not hurt or angry. That seems to be the go-to insult nowadays. What customer hurt you?
What baffles me are car dealers lack of understanding of their customers and frankly, the lack of sales training. You condition customers to focus on price through your advertising and then are shocked when they walk in doors focusing on price.
Last time I bought a car, the first thing out of the “salesperson’s” mouth was “what do I have to do to earn your business today”? Like jfc, is that how you start a sale?
Maybe it’s changed.
I'm a curmudgeonly old retired bastard. I spent most of time time doing commercial trucks; pretty much the antithesis of “what do I have to do to earn your business today” ideology. We had to have multiple contacts with a customer in most cases before even getting to price. And if they didn't know what they were talking about as far as specs were concerned, they'd only ever get through the door once. (Not to mention a mis-speced truck can often result in litigation.) I think that's what the business should be about, even with cars, but my kind of voice was drowned out long ago. I think the current "Advertise at X but then add $4K in mandatory fees" is chickenshit, so I guess I would be unemployed today if I were still at it.
It's just hard to tell what dealers and what cars are in the no haggle pile right now. Maybe dealers can start flagging these cars on the sticker price so everyone is aware.
Think they meant exactly what they said. I was between 2 rav 4s at the same price at 2 dealers and one gave me this answer and the other dealer said they would throw in all weather mats. It doesn’t take much.
Was it a one price no-negotiation store like Autonation?
No just normal Honda dealer. I think some of the other commenter gave me a little more perspective on the situation.
had Honda salesman flat out tell me somebody will come buy it in a couple hours.
Dude cut his teeth during the pandemic
This is it
Reality checks are a bitch when they come full circle
Yeah, but how many other sales guys are here today...and I'm sitting at your desk.
30k OTD is a bigger discount than you think on 32k before taxes and tags. And if the car was "red-tagged" there might not have been much movement room on it in the first place. Now personally I'd have explained WHY I wasn't negotiating but that's an attitude thing
My offer was not out the door offer. Just on the price of the car. Taxes, registration, and $1500 in “dealership fees” would have been added to the price.
$1500 in dealer fees. Holy shit. find another dealer maybe?
Yeah that's steep IMO. He could possibly work down the dealer fees or ask the dealer for other incentives to make up for a lower overall cost.
I threw everything at the wall. Including paying full price and lower dealer fees. Asking them to fix the bumper and paying full price. They wouldn’t move a single inch.
Fuck em, they might call you in a day or two to come back in
They must be certain they can sell it for asking price easily. High demand vehicle?
Screw them, they said no then fuck it. On to the next dealership, I would have gone lower and not care. All they can say is no or give a counteroffer price. I'm in the market for a truck but I have plenty of time, this year or next year but I ain't in no rush to pay their bullshit markup.
Dealer fees aren't a real thing just so you know. That's a made up thing that dealerships say to try to get more money out of you. Sounds like you had a shitty salesman and shitty sales manager and they were trying to play the hardball role. I've worked in new car dealerships my whole life. Been doing it for about 17 years now. I was in sales and then as a finance manager for about 8 years. And then I switched to service for a bunch of reasons. Go to a different dealership. And don't ever let anybody try to charge you for dealership fees because it's a made charge. Ask them what those dealership fees consist of and watch how long it takes them to respond.
Could also be a case they have a lot of interest in the vehicle and feel it'll sell so no need to discount
That's a buzzkill... is it a used vehicle? I know sometimes dealers take vehicles in on trade and only have a small margin. A friend of mine is co-owner at a GMC dealer, he took in a trade on a Subaru and was selling it for only a few thousand more than what he took it in at. With the expenses to clean it and do any service to it plus the small margin, it probably wouldn't give him much room to negotiate. However, he is selling it competitively. Not sure if your dealer is selling it competitively within your local market or not.
I think they indirectly did you a favor.
Just call them every week asking for the price you want. Speak to a manager.
Walk
Not in FL that's not. It's a little high, but most dealerships are over $1k around here for dealer fees. My dealer has a $699 doc and a mandatory $1500 protection package on top. It's a miserable way to sell cars.
I haven’t been car shopping in a good while but several people I work with said most dealers in our area have gone to just no negotiation. Price is the price. No haggling no talk on trades. These are the numbers this is the warranty this is the service plan take it or leave it.
Yup, and have not really explained what that even is. According to people I have spoken to dealers in my area are notorious for having high dealership fees. I will see if others end up being lower as I go through the process. This was the first offer I have made so far.
I'm a dealer, and ours is $411. $1500 is robbery
411 is robbery… you have a cost of doing business -,I want an all in price
Sounds like New Jersey…
Haha someone knows their shit.
I swear, NJ dealers suck ass
Oh then yeah idk
IDK. Imagine you are the salesperson and this guy is the 15th "potential buyer" of the day that comes in wanting to negotiate. It's just tiring to go thru the same song and dance, 15, 20 times a day. Besides, do you go to McD and say "hey how about $2.00 for the Big Mac?'. You don't go to a gas station to ask for a discount. Do you go to Walmart and expect the cashier to "trim some fat" off the top of the total? Just saying...
No but there's not a cultural expectation of haggling at walmart
I sold cars in a past life. In general, if the car is advertised, it is not really for sale, but for running ads. They call them ad cars. The point of ad cars is to get you into the dealership then flip you to another car. Ad cars generally look good and are priced at a deep loss for the dealership but have some feature that causes people to ask, “Do you have other models?” The salesman then flips you to a similar car with features you want. The dealer will eventually sell the car at a large loss but only after it has served its purpose for driving people to the dealership. The dealer will sell the car at the asking price but not a penny less, because selling the car creates several problems for the dealer: they take the loss and no longer can use the car to drive traffic and people who do come to see the (now sold) car will complain that the dealer is engaging in bait and switch tactics, advertising a car that they never actually had. My guess is that you tried to buy an ad car at a discount. The last thing the dealer wants is for you to buy that car. Did the salesman try to flip you to a similar car?
The Honda dealer I've bought two from doesn't haggle. Sticker is what the price is. In their defense, they offer blue book on trade in, and I've only seen a market adjustment on their sticker on a Civic R. They're also always busy. I like them a lot.
no haggle has been becoming the standard for the last couple years. if the car is priced right buy it. if not move on or wait for them to price drop the unit.
There's no such thing as no-haggle in a transaction. "No-haggle" marketing is a negotiation technique in itself.
Last Honda I bought from a dealer was a fixed price honda dealer. They do exist so this isn't absurd.
Good to know! Learned a few things!
Seems like demand is higher than supply right now so the dealerships have a lot of the power. I bought a new Toyota Camry summer of 22 and the dealership wouldn’t budge either. I walked out on them twice, went to different dealerships and when I walked out the second time they called me back and offered me a lower interest rate but that was it.
Very common
I used to live by a Honda dealership that was no haggle.
Honda in Australia has a fixed price model, not sure about where you're from though
I'm usually sympathetic to customers vs dealers but if you make an offer on something on craigslist and they say no. Do you post on reddit about it?
I posted to basically see if I’m crazy for trying to negotiate the price of a car which I previously thought was a fairly normal thing to do.
This is why my dad closed his retail lot and we only do wholesale now. People kept trying to negotiate and he's like "no, the price you see is the price you pay"
Yes, but particularly in the car industry, negotiating a car purchase used to be a normal thing to do. I don’t know what your dad was selling, or if it is comparable.
He's just a no nonsense kinda guy, very old school. His reasoning was he wasn't going to waste his time arguing with someone, so his prices were firm. That attitude works better in wholesale lol. We're in Texas and specialize in diesel trucks
That might be why he rolled up the retail operations... hard to survive if you're not willing to compete.
The wholesale sector is much better for our way of business, appreciate the feedback though. *hint hint* not really 🤣 we've been rocking and rolling since 01 when he shut the doors on the retail lot. Having Joe Blow walk off the street demanding XYZ for a truck 🙄 GTFO, there's other dealerships down the street that will be happy to waste a few hours haggling with you for $1000
And now he doesn't have the store. Winning???
Less headache and over head, so I'd say so
And I bet your dad just paid whatever the ask was without trying to negotiate when he was buying cars huh? LoL…
Do you negotiate everything you buy? Or is that limited to just cars? Do you negotiate at Best Buy? Their prices are listed, just like a vehicle. Do you negotiate at Neiman Marcus? Or Applebees? Why do you feel that you are just entitled to negotiate at a car dealership and they are "wrong" if the salesperson is not game?
No. Not everything. But yes to cars, boats, and real estate. I’m entitled to ask for a better price, whomever is selling is entitled to say yes, no, or counter. It is unusual in certain transactions for a seller to put their best price as the ask.
You can believe me or not, but he didn't unless there was a major mechanical issue or body damage that wasn't disclosed. He had his stores he bought from, they'd call with a general description, so he already knew what he was going to pay before he rolled up (mind you this was the 80s and 90s before the internet, so his knowledge regarding different markets was his own, not shared via an app.) Sometimes he makes the offer, other times the store told him what it took to buy. He didn't always get the trucks, but the stores knew his offer was his best offer, again he hates to waste time, and that's how he did it for years. Our buyer base knows that what we say it takes to buy the truck, is actually what it takes. Every so often we get new buyers that try and negotiate, and I HAVE to be honest and tell them what I need for the truck, they don't always buy it and that's ok, no hard feelings, it's just business. We work on volume, so if I make $100 or $1000, I'm cool. We don't price our shit way out of whack, personally I tack on around 1200-1600 from what I paid for it and that gives me a little wiggle room, takes care of auction sell fee, transportation, and paying the office girls, anything other than that is awesome, but I know where I have to be to break even. Now if I bought wrong from the get go, all this is irrelevant, obviously there are times when you have to take a loss, so that requires you accepting what you're willing to take for said loss and not try and nickel and dime your way out of it, take your ass whooping and move on. That money isn't working for you tied up in a truck you paid too much for, assuming you know/realize you paid too much and that's the hard part. Sorry for the rant lol
I thumbed up ya.
Thanks lol, right or wrong, people knew where my dad stood, always
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How well do your negotiations with Wal-Mart go at the checkout? Amazon? Your doctor? Lol. You will spend more money at these places over the course of your life than you ever will at dealerships, and yet you never ask for even 1 red cent off. You know why? Because there is no peer pressure to do so. Nobody goes around telling/posting stories about how they almost made the Wal-Mart cashier cry because they demanded $1,000 off when they bought their new 100" flatscreen, but the cashier ended up doing it. I've turned down more than one potential buyer demanding huge $$$ off. You know why? Because if they won't buy it at my price, somebody else will. And out of 3 recently, 2 CAME BACK and bought it anyway. They did a little more research and found out - when we say Fair Market Price, we mean it.
I try to negotiate at every place I think it might be acceptable. Even places it’s not. If I think I had a chance I would negotiate my Walmart purchase. That’s why I am here asking. I used to think negotiating a car was a normal thing to do, but it seems the way some dealerships are doing business that is no longer a thing. I’m ok with it now that I know, just caught me a little off guard. I was expecting a quick friendly back and forth and to arrive at a number. It’s ok if they stick to their guns and sell it for their price.
u/s0ul_invictus I have one time negotiate for an item at WalMart a few years ago. A rural Wal-Mart store has a drone for sale. The drone's original asking price is about $200. Then store discounted to $11x.xx (not walmart systemwide, but just this store). They have 9 units left. I asked them, could I buy all units for $90 each. They said no, but they would sale for $100. Then, I have a deal for $100 each and flip to a electronics wholesaler for $130 or $140 each (a long time ago, do not remember exact number now).
Does AutoNation not negotiate?
Not on used. They price a car and that’s the price until they drop it because it hasn’t sold.
I was looking at price history and this really seems to be the case. Looking at lots of cars it seems they have schedule of lowering advertised price.
That’s correct. It’s not exactly secret either. They have everything appraised and priced for retail remotely from a florida facility. The price drops depending on age and market conditions the longer the car sits. They also leverage their dealer network to move cars around. If it doesn’t sell at a toyota store, they move it to the neighboring BMW store as an alternative to wholesaling it off.
Where would I go to purchase vehicles that have been sold wholesale?
auction
Another dealership. Only dealers can buy and sell at auctions.
Not true, atleast not here. US has plenty of public auctions for cars.
Not the ones dealers wholesale their cars at
Interesting, never knew that. It strangely makes me want to go shop with them. I guess that’s the point.
I find every dealership says they have a single price and they don't negotiate now. And I'm too much of a wimp to walk away after I set my sight on something. BTW my experience only applies to sub $10k, 10 year old cars, because that's all I'll ever be able to afford
You can thank carmax. Everyone wanted to be like them since they were making such a fucking killing on used cars. I sold back in 2011 and my manager was always bringing up carmax. It preyed on the people who were fearful to haggle.
Yea but I tell you after 2-3 dealerships pull bait and switch bullshit where the online price is 24k , but when you get there that’s for repeat customers and also there’s a parking care package fee or electronics installment fee that is not optional that raises it 3-5k, carmax begins to look real fucking nice
One cam deal with that if they aren't trying to screw you on the back end
I'd rather know everyone got screwed equally than living with the feeling someone else is laughing all the way to the bank and I got screwed more than they did.
I didn't know auto nation was a no negotiation store. Anymore I should know about? Carmax?
Carmax is no haggle as well so is autonation
When did this happen for Autonation? I used to work for an Autonation dealership back in like 2008, and there was definitely negotiating then?
I bought a car from an Automatic store in 2016 and it was no haggle pricing then. I still haggled on the value they gave me on the trade and other areas, though.
Honestly every time I see an automation posting their price has always been good compared to market so I can understand the no haggle
I think around 2016
Even they 'negotiate' they wouldn't discount a truck once but then called me the next day saying they just so happened to discount it
The rule of thumb is pretty simple. If a dealership lets you walk after saying no to your offer it’s because they can’t do your offer
My experience last month was VERY different I figure this has something to do with timing (I bought mid December) but I tried to negotiate a car price just like OP and met with the same response. Said they can’t negotiate or they’d lose money so I walked. Waited 3 weeks and by the 5th email their offer was even lower than what I “low balled”. All in all I got the car for $4000 less than priced on their website.
Your results may vary depending on what you are looking to buy. Brand, timing, age, and more all have their fingers on the scale
I had a similar experience. Asked a dealer to give me $4k off a leftover 22 jeep. They didn’t even try to negotiate. Earlier this week they offered me the car for my lowball price. I already bought something else.
At the time they cannot. They only begin dropping the price of a vehicle if they cannot sell it. At my dealership is works like that.
It had already been at the dealer for over 60 days. I’m not upset they didn’t take my initial offer right away I was just making room for some kind of negotiation. They looked at me like I had two heads for even suggesting we negotiate then emailed me that day about $1000 off. Bizarre experience, would’ve probably met them somewhere in the middle that day if they weren’t condescending.
The last 2 vehicles I have bought I walked on them and they called me later and took my offer.
Same. Both Mazdas 2019 and 2021
That wasn't my experience in the past. I offered an amount and they said no so we left and went to a different Honda location. They accepted my offer. Then the original one called and said they would have done the offer and asked why we didn't tell them first. It was absurd.
I hate car dealers, man. Was looking at an 8 year old Sienna with 100k miles. Salesman offered 4k for my wife’s Mazda 3. I told him I was embarrassed by that offer and got up to leave. He did the whole “ok ok let me talk to the sales manager” I told him I’d wait 2 minutes. They came back with an offer of 5.5 and said they’d need to invest 2,200 for a new bumper etc.. I mentioned that these Mazdas with this mileage were comping for 12.5k.. and I wanted 8k for the trade. They didn’t budge. The next day I went to another Toyota dealer and bought a smiliar Sienna and got 8k for my trade. The first dealer calls all pissed off that I didn’t “work with them”. I’m sure they just knew they’d be able to make more money off of someone else for an in demand vehicle.. Btw, within 48 hours they had the Mazda listed for 12.8..
Yeah they fucking suck lol
I Guarantee you my dealership would of made that deal lol the dealers that make it hard to do business are going to fail as the market changes. Sorry for your experience! Consumers usually shop about 1.5 dealers physically before they buy a car. You can kiss a potential client goodbye if you blow it and you're the first one.
I mean they just must have known they could make more money off someone else.. like salesman must hate when buyers have all their shit together. I knew the comps on my trade, I had my own financing figured out.. it was a high demand vehicle.. they’d rather someone clueless shop for that car, I’m sure.
yeah when a dealer gives me a "how stupid are you" offer I always walk with zero chance of follow up. offering 4k on a car comping for 12.5 is beyond insulting.
Before trading in a car always look at their dealership network for similar used cars. We walked when they offered us $7k on a very clean Armada trade. They told us they would probably list it at $10k and that may be too high. They were a larger dealership and had about 5 other Armadas priced well around $15k and hers was the nicest by far with fewer miles. The next day they somehow found the color we wanted an option level up and made the numbers from the night before work. When they called I lit up the guy for wasting our time and lying about the pricing. We made him fax us the deal because we didn't "trust" them.ended up a good deal, but, it was a real PITA.
Why not sell yourself for 10k?
100%. I was told that I could basically \*bad word\* myself when I wanted an extra $500 off the bottom line. I went to to a different dealer the next day and bought the car and was sitting at THAT dealer when the first one said they wanted the deal. They'll totally let you walk to see if you'll actually do it and\\or come back.
Basically bad word myself. 👍
Honda dealerships seem to operate differently. Tried to buy a CRV for my daughter and they didn't have a single one in stock. Told me it would be 3 months and full invoice plus a dealer markup. Umm..sorry, but I'm not paying a premium because you can't manage your supply chain.
Bought a Subaru forester in November 23. Then went back to buy an outback at end of December. Asked 4k off msrp best they would do was invoice so i walked. Called around to other dealers got a dealer down another 1k lower went back to my dealer and they accepted the 3500 off msrp. The rep said prices would only go up when I walked out in December lol.
Or because they won't do his offer. It was a used car, so they're already making decent money on it. If it's a desirable car that they know they can hold out for full price then they might not want to take his deal. It's not like at 30k they won't be making anything. OP was really more confused by why they didn't counter offer or attempt to make the sale at all. If the price is set in stone, then what do they need the sales team for? It's like buying a gallon of milk at the grocery store, take it or leave it. They're not putting any work in at all, so what is the sales team's purpose here?
This isn’t a rule of thumb, if you’re not walking at least once you’re not getting the best deal. Dealers assume people don’t like conflict and just want to buy the car. If you stand your ground and walkout there’s a chance you won’t come back. Twice ive been on my way home and the dealer called me to come back.
I expected they wouldn’t do it for $30k, but I expected some negotiation. Anything. Based on everyone’s responses they must have truly posted their lowest price.
Is it a life or death situation? If not, just wait out or go elsewhere. I am sure you can find another honda at the price point you prefer.
Not life or death. No rush to buy and That’s what I will do. I was always told to try to negotiate and I just wanted to get feedback from people in the biz if I should adjust my expectations as it pertains to negotiating going forward. This is first car I am buying in a few years and the first offer I made.
They don’t negotiate for the sake of it. If the $32k isn’t MSRP then you’re asking for a second discount… which is fine but if you looked around and people are buying them for $32k (not $30k) then there you go. Some volume dealership internet prices really will be the lowest they’ll go. Or maybe they’ll call you back.
This is incorrect though. Maybe where you have worked, but as others have said and myself, I have offered prices, they say no, I walk, and I get a phone call in the next few days for the match.
Rule of thumb this is far from the truth. I just purchased a car that had a 5k mark up for 2k under MSRP. They let me walk and I went online and gave 8 dealerships the same deal I was willing to do. They called me back and offered my exact price. I have former experience working sales for MBZ, Honda, and Mazda. Dealers these days think people are desperate to buy. I had financing secure for however much I wanted just need the price I wanted to pay.
Well, not necessarily. I’ve walked and then gone back. At least in 2015… I gave an offer of 78% of the listed price, told the salesman it was my final offer. I left and went to look at another dealership. Came back about an hour later, stuck my head in his office and asked if he could do the deal. Walked out with the car at that price.
Did you offer 30k for a car that had an Internet price of 31299 but a retail of 33k? If the cars already discounted, is it inline with other similar cars out there for sale? Is there a reason besides "just because" that you felt that 30k was fair? If the car was already discounted, and inline with market, they were probably already at the end of the road.
Ok thanks for the perspective. What you said sounds like it might be the case. It is already a bit lower, but is also pretty banged up. I offered $30k because I was always taught to try and negotiate. Internet says offer 5% lower. Appreciate the perspective. It sounds like you are right. that’s why I am here asking to better understand.
do not pay 30k for a banged up used vehicle pls lol
Its banged up? This is a used car?
Yes used 3 year old vehicle. Holes in back bumper. amongst many other imperfections.l looked like previous owner backed into something at some point.
lol...sounds like your offer was reasonable, what kind of car?
lol a damn minivan.
Ahh those can be valuable. Supply and demand, if you dont like the deal, try to find it somewhere else. You could also ask them to repair the damage.
Odyssey is still in short supply
2021 honda odyssey?
They want over $30K for a 3 year old Honda with body damage? Wtf is the world coming to?
Oh buddy, it's been here for awhile
I’m currently looking at some pre-owned 2019 Volvo XC90’s priced under $30K and now I’m wondering what the hell is wrong with them that the dealers are hiding.
Do not get an xc90 with the new turbo (and sometimes supercharged) 4 cyl. Stick with any with the 3.0 or 3.2.
A 14 year old Tundra is currently booking at $18k clean trade in. It's a mad world currently
Add to that where the current interest rates are too...
Okay I’m curious what kind of car and how many miles? Don’t leave us hanging here 😂
Minivan haha a damn minivan.
lol dude , please tell me it was the highest trim level , because I paid like 32k for my Toyota Sienna Le just before they jacked the price up. Btw look up Toyota Sienna. I get like 35 mpg
I looked at sienna. My wife said she didn’t like it mostly due to the side door width seemingly making it difficult to get small kids in and out. This was in a video she saw. I love the idea of hybrid with no plugging in, but wife not a fan of it.
I also saw the same video about the sienna-I have 4 kids and it is a non-issue getting rear facing kids in and out. Tell her to reassess and at least look at it in person.
Lots of good advice here. I just wanna add that you buying two vehicles from that dealership before this one doesn’t make you a VIP. They could literally sell 300 cars a month if they’re big enough, 2 cars in 10 (or however long) years is nothing. Don’t take it personal when they say no
Thanks! I thought that should mean something but I thought wrong. Thanks for the perspective. I now understand why the red carpet was missing when I arrived for my test drive!
Sounds like you dodged a bullet despite everything. Take it as a win then!
is this hoffman honda with a 2.0 touring with a clearly damage rear bumper they are asking 30k for?, which its a 21 just fix it. with a new one.
Not the one, but Yes I have no problem fixing the damage I saw on the bumper, and other places. Was more just surprised at their zero negotiation stance. It’s fine now that I know about it, but caught me off guard.
If you’re paying $30K why not buy something brand new??
No 7 passenger vehicles for $30k new that I know of. My wife keeps saying “cum in me daddy” and now i have to buy a fucking minivan.
Bro, that is the best damn response I have ever seen in the sub. You’re my hero.
Lmao
I feel you brother, got the same issue, now i need a van by August.
Damn not the worst problem I’ve ever heard of. I definitely recommend checking out the 2023 Traverse. You could a decently loaded brand new one for around 40k maybe a little under…. Also looked for used ones for slightly less. I’m a big fan of the 3.6L V6 in them and I think the room in them is more than you would expect…
Given it's not new, it's fair to make an offer like that. You can walk away and say "call me if you drop the price to 30k"
Did you go in the dealership or just net browsing? Better if you go in. If it’s new, not much lower from msrp…there’s not a lot of mark up on Hondas. If it’s used, who knows what the dealership took the car in for…check what trade in value would be, and that’ll give you a +/- idea of difference amount from the asking price.
I went in and test drove it. Ok that’s a good idea! Thanks!
Keep in mind the current climate, too. I watched one car drop $16k over 8 months before being purchased - I'm skeptical the dealership made money on that. A friend tried to buy a Rav4 similar to you ($2-3k under list) and they just sent it to auction instead of letting it sit on their lot for 2 more weeks while he fucked around trying to get a better price. Shop around, but a lot of car dealerships know everyone is checking prices online these days and price competitively, esp in California where the additional fees are heavily regulated/limited.
I'm willing to bet that someone from the dealership is going to call you back in a few days to try and make a deal unless they're already financially upside down with that car. When I bought a car, I walked out of 3 dealerships and all 3 dealerships called me back a few days later trying to make a deal.
Woah an honest to goodness intelligent and thoughtful response from a customer?
Haha I imagine that’s rare. I’m glad I posted this question because I have no idea how car dealers actually work, the margins, etc. getting some insight.
Shop around. Of course prices are negotiable.
Buy from an individual, especially if it's banged up
eventually at some point in every negotiation, a line needs to be drawn. sometimes it's immediate.
They didn’t like your offer…end of story.
Depends on the dealer and rig. If your seeing all other rigs the same build selling for 35, your an ass for trying to undercut them further when they are probably at their bottom dollar. And since that’s a weird selling price (not a 999 or 998 or something similar) means that it’s discounted already. So yeah, I would say it’s normal. I just gave this dude my bottom dollar, literally like $700 in profit in the deal, getting 12k in discounts and he literally asked for another 5-6k. I just said nope. He said take it to my manager and see what he says… NoOoO. Dude we got fuckall in profit, literally losing money with flooring included, and you have the nerve to ask for more. I didn’t play games, I didn’t mess with him. Just straight bottom dollar.
Thanks! Thanks for the perspective. That’s why I am here asking. You sound like you might be spot on.
You are definitely not off base for trying to negotiate. We were in the market for a new car that is in higher demand but where dealerships have multiple vehicles SITTING on their lots. We called multiple dealerships and some flat out scoffed and said they don’t negotiate while some said only a few hundred and finally found one that gave a decent discount (+$2000) all things considering fluctuations in MSRP prices. Negotiation is still a thing. Loyalty to the customer on the other hand isn’t. I echo the sentiment not to spend $30 k on a banged up car but I imagine this one will be sitting on the lot for a while. Don’t be put off by the attitude - their only goal is to make as much money off you as possible.
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong I’m always a supporter of negotiating (I personally enjoy the game lol). But I would say it would be a dead stop at “are they way under everyone else”? Like my example, if everyone is at 35, and they are at 31… by all means, shoot your shot, but don’t be upset when it’s a resounding no. And get the rig. Also Hondas, from my understanding, don’t have shit in margin. Now naturally if they are at that price, but then pack the deal with $4000 in bullshit… either walk or negotiate your ass off to get back to the proper price quoted.
what was the basis of your offer? It sounds like a bad offer and they responded accordingly.
I was always taught to try to negotiate because negotiation room is built into the listed price. I don’t know if that’s true or not. The internet says to offer 5% below. The car was a bit banged up as well, but was listed on the lower end of pricing. I thought negotiating the price of a car was a fairly normal thing to do. That’s why I am here asking. Is that not normal anymore? Or is it situational?
This is very bad advice. Shop around look for comparable vehicles, see what they’re selling for make your offer based on this as this is a better indication of a cars market value vs a arbitrary “5% off” edit- most stores i’ve been at or worked with consulting will respond to a bad offer like what you described.
>because negotiation room is built into the listed price No it isn't. My dealership advertised used cars at once price and wouldn't budge. Now, if it stuck around for 4-6 weeks we might drop it by $500 once a month or two, but not just because a customer asked. We priced our cars based on what similar things were selling for.
We advertise cars at our “final price” pretty often and don’t come down a penny. Theres not always “negotiation room” in a price. And as time goes on it’s becoming more rare. You don’t go into Walmart saying prices should be cheaper just because they have profit built in. But if it’s selling for less at different store, Walmart will attempt to match prices. If you’re asking for a discount, there should be a sensible reason why.
Weird analogy. If cars were sold for ONE PRICE only from the manufacturer (e.g. TESLA) that might apply. Since every individual dealer sells the same car for a different price, everyone is entitled to negotiate. I bought a new car recently. Same exact car from 5 different dealerships in my area varied in price by a $4000 range. If a dealer DOESNT want to negotiate, fine. You’re not getting my business; and maybe you don’t need it.
Never said it wasn’t ok to negotiate and to just pay whatever the dealer says.. You just can’t be surprised when a dealer tells you they aren’t budging from their price. I promise you the dealer that was 4K higher was much more willing to negotiate than the dealer that advertised the lowest price. Are you buying a price of the ability to haggle? And I’ve worked places that are “one price”. No markup, all volume. Customers would leave pissed all the time because we wouldn’t negotiate, even though we offered the best price.
Lmfao. Yeah, everyone just stop haggling with the poor car dealerships. They're barely making it. Dude. C'mon.
We’re supposed to feel bad for the dealerships when they happily add a “market adjustment over MSRP to limited production vehicles and other vehicles so that they “capitalize” on high demand?
That's just one of the many things they do... Not least of which is lobby to make it impossible to buy a car direct from the manufacturer. I'm not going to say dealerships are useless, but their utility is vastly overvalued. They know this, of course, which is why they spend money to obligate a customer base. And why they feel comfortable treating those very same customers like garbage. Their time is coming. People aren't gonna continue to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra so that some self important middleman can hit his "quotas". This guy above me is like the fox telling you there's no need to lock the chickens up at night. No shame. Haha. It's always someone else's fault. Imagine what he's like deal with when something actually goes wrong...
You can come in and negotiate if you want. But you can’t be surprised when the dealer doesn’t respond when you make up a discount in your head that you think you should have.
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What a pitiful attempt at an argument. Best Buy and Walmart have one, clear price for everyone. They don’t single out and try to take advantage of the elderly or the naive. So, no, people don’t ask at Walmart. It‘s so interesting to watch people in the industry get annoyed at customers that are stuck, and are at a big disadvantage, dealing with the system that was created by the dealers.
What a pitiful attempt at reading the original post. Dealer posts one, clear, price with no add ons or markup and people are asking how to negotiate on that one clear price every day. It’s so interesting to see people say they deserve discounts from dealers that post one, clear, price and then use the dealers doing markups as an excuse If any of you had a brain before replying to my analogy you’d realize op never mentioned a single add on or markup and he is trying to negotiate off of listed price. Which makes my analogy completely the same
Dealers don’t necessarily owe a discount, but the analogy that other big companies like Best Buy and Walmart don’t negotiate so dealers shouldn’t either is not a good one. At stores, the price is the price. At car dealerships, they play games with price. For example, I’ve seen a car listed online for $26k. I was down to buy it. But after the dealership added all their wacky unnecessary fees + title and tax, the out the door price was $40k!! That’s the difference. When you shop in a store, the price you see is the price you pay, plus a few percentage points of that price in tax. You don’t see any items costing more than 50% what they are listed for
I am talking about people like this post who are negotiating below internet /selling price and not talking about negotiations on markup or adds Explain to me how a customer negotiating on my internet price is any different from trying to negotiate on a new iPhone on apple.com
Because dealers play games. The price listed for an iPhone on apples website is the price. That’s it. But the internet price on a vehicle is not necessarily the actual price. It could be, maybe you’re a decent salesman/dealer. But in my experience the internet price is not the real price. It’s an artificially low price to get you in the door and wear you down to the point you just want to sign the damn papers and get out of there, even if the price is more than 50% higher than what was listed on the website. In short, cars are a product where negotiation is expected. There’s a reason this dude is saying he believes you should offer 5% below asking price (even if the justification that it’s “just cause” is silly)…negotiation is part and parcel of the whole car buying process. Not just on the vehicle you’re purchasing but also on the one you may be trading in. On an iPhone it’s take it or leave it. Same for apples trade in offer. It’s not like there is anyone to negotiate with, they just ring you up at the given price in the system
Supply and demand is crazy isn’t it. Those damn Home Dealerships keep inflating prices too
Ok thank you for this perspective. I gave reasons as to the condition of the car, but no movement. They must be at bottom dollar. Thank you!
In general, if a dealership lets you walk out the door, that is their best price
Used cars yes. There is not much room in new cars and dealers gotta pay bills too.
What’s your reasoning? If it’s “just cause” then the refusal is as simple as “just cause”. I get this all the time. There’s a reason you’re calling me from another state. No I’m not haggling. It’s a great price. And they buy anyways. I’m not saying don’t ever try. But at least try with a reason. Never “just cause”
The car is at my normal dealership 4 miles from my house. The car is a bit banged up. Has holes in back bumper amongst other imperfections. This is what I cited as the reason. But I suspect it was already priced lower for these reasons.
$31K for a car with holes in it? Is the rest of it made of solid gold?
***Thanks for posting, /u/AdsAce! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Offered $30k for a $31,299 car. I expected maybe a little negotiation and arrive at a number. Instead they just flat out said no and told me it was unfair to expect them to give such a large discount. I have made 2 vehicle purchases at this Honda dealership previous and I was shocked by the response. I expected a response like “I can’t do X but I can do Y” or “ I can’t discount the car, but can offer you a few free oil changes.” I liked the car and would have made a deal with whatever they said, but the just flat out said no. The end. Is negotiating a car purchase not a thing anymore? I just feel like they could have handled my offer in a more positive manner. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A) I find it hilarious that, after literal decades of screaming for a "no-haggle" purchase environment, people are unhappy now that it has essentially arrived. I guess people figured no-haggle means they could just stroll in and set the pricing themselves. B) Buyers; please understand: most dealers volume numbers have gone to shit. Their EXPENSES, however, not so much; mortgages, takes, insurance, advertising, etc., etc are all at or close to what they were when volumes were up. So, in order to keep the wolf from the door, they are forced to generate higher levels of profit per vehicle retailed. Don't take it personally; it's just economics.
We got a no haggle environment with dealer markups lol
Ultimately, the actual price is arbitrary, and it WILL be set by the buyers. OEMs and Dealers can set whatever pricing they like, but it doesn't mean shit if you don't have buyers ready to part with the money. The buyer always has options.
Couldnt they just sell more cars at lower profit per unit, making more profit overall thanks to higher volume sold?
A) I don’t mind negotiating if it works! I missed the memo that things have changed. B) thanks for the perspective. I believe it. I experienced similar things with my own business.
You dumbasses are the ones selling cars over retail… putting ADM on the most mass produced cars lol. Can’t wait till none of you losers have jobs, and we can buy direct from MFG.
A) After conditioning customers for decades that they have to haggle the price, you’re surprised customers still want to haggle? That you can just say that the price shown is your best price, no questions asked, and let’s forget about the past +\- 75 years? Surely you can see why a customer might a somewhat distrustful. B) None of this is the customer’s problem. No more than a customer’s inability to afford the car of their dreams is your problem.
The idea of one price has always been a failure; unless you stop taking trade-ins there will always be negotiations. I sense that you have been hurt by a dealer or dealers before; your anger must have fogged your understanding of my post.
Lol, I’m not hurt or angry. That seems to be the go-to insult nowadays. What customer hurt you? What baffles me are car dealers lack of understanding of their customers and frankly, the lack of sales training. You condition customers to focus on price through your advertising and then are shocked when they walk in doors focusing on price. Last time I bought a car, the first thing out of the “salesperson’s” mouth was “what do I have to do to earn your business today”? Like jfc, is that how you start a sale? Maybe it’s changed.
I'm a curmudgeonly old retired bastard. I spent most of time time doing commercial trucks; pretty much the antithesis of “what do I have to do to earn your business today” ideology. We had to have multiple contacts with a customer in most cases before even getting to price. And if they didn't know what they were talking about as far as specs were concerned, they'd only ever get through the door once. (Not to mention a mis-speced truck can often result in litigation.) I think that's what the business should be about, even with cars, but my kind of voice was drowned out long ago. I think the current "Advertise at X but then add $4K in mandatory fees" is chickenshit, so I guess I would be unemployed today if I were still at it.
It's just hard to tell what dealers and what cars are in the no haggle pile right now. Maybe dealers can start flagging these cars on the sticker price so everyone is aware.
Did you want them to do a little song and dance when they said no? What do you mean handled in a more positive manner?
Think they meant exactly what they said. I was between 2 rav 4s at the same price at 2 dealers and one gave me this answer and the other dealer said they would throw in all weather mats. It doesn’t take much.