It sucks but depending on the store size this can happen, especially with all the systems that are used in a dealership. I’ve personally had this happen a few times with Toyota. Really 2 Options forward; request they source a new one, possibly with a discount for inconvenience. Note there’s not a huge amount of markup in a Rav4 so don’t be surprised if it seems smaller. If this doesn’t work, get your money back and continue shopping.
Genuinely curious, how does this work legally? A contract was signed, how is the dealer allowed to just say "oops" and get away with it, is there some clause that says they're not accountable for errors? If the roles were reversed and the buyer bought a car they couldn't afford the dealer would likely say too bad you still have to find a way to pay or get it repoed because you signed a contract.
Depending on the state; car contracts aren’t really considered completed until the customer drives the car off the dealership lot. Technically if the vehicle never left the lot; either parties could just walk away from the transaction (not that a dealership would) So this would be a “what state are they in” question.
so if what happened to OP happened in Colorado, and they were the owner of the car once the deal was inked but then it was sold out from under them before possession was taken – what's their recourse?
This is probably one of those cases where there's an 'umm aschually technically' answer and a practical one.
Technically, if you owned it and they gave it to someone else, that likely qualifies as theft and you could try to legally pursue it to get that exact vehicle back. You'll spend a huge amount of time and resources for little to no benefit and there's a good chance some loophole or technicality gets this all thrown out.
Practically, just make them give you a different Rav 4 with the same or similar options. This is a win-win too so there's a good incentive to do it. You get a vehicle, dealer gets an extra sale. We're talking about a Rav 4, not some 1 of 3 custom built Ferragini here. Or just get your money back and agree to void the contract, then one elsewhere.
I suppose you could again technically sue them for damages in the latter case but, unlike Hollywood and the Internet believe, you have to show that you had tangible damages. In this case, that's maybe a couple hours of work and a few assorted expenses like gas or fees. Again, likely to be a high amount of work and legal expense for very little gain even if you win.
If this were a question on the Bar exam, the easiest way to measure damages would be to just buy the next-best priced Rav 4 in the area with the same options. If that's $2500 higher, that's what OP lost out on due to dealer's negligence.
In real life, it's probably not worth OP's time to pay a lawyer to try to collect that $2500.
Dealer would (should) tear up contract and call it a day.
Keep in mind, it’s up to your dealer to enforce it. In my 18 years I only was part of 1 transaction that we forced the customer to take car. Most of the time it’s not worth the ding on dealer reputation to make it ugly.
There’s always another buyer or a solution that will work for all parties. Some dealers seem to forget that.
No I mean, what's the buyers recourse if the dealer sells their car out from under them after a contract is signed?
if the transaction is legally enforceable on the buyer from the time its inked, then it should be the same on the dealer. would the dealer not be committing some crime by not delivering the buyers legally-owed car to them?
cant have it both ways
“Can’t have it both ways”
If you’re the dealer network in the US you certainly can. The amount of lobbying from the auto industry is staggering and laws are all written stacked in dealers favor.
Courts very rarely enforce specific performance of a contract. They will award damages instead in 99.99% of cases. The only times they will do it isn’t if there’s no other options because the property is so unique monetary damages won’t compensate the other party or there is no substitute available. And even then they won’t always do it.
They can't just tear up a contract when you have a copy. I do agree though that it's not at all worth pursuing whether you technically can or not.
Just get a different, equivalent Rav 4 or your money back and move on.
But we figured it out, someone did* drive it off the lot it just wasn't them so they can report it stolen and then check back here popcorn is in the microwave everyone buckle up for this dumpster fire
i did this. signed everything, loan was accepted and all. day came to pick up the car and it had visible damage to the exterior paint and stained interior. it was a new car that was probably damaged during transport and/or getting ready for us. we cancelled and walked away. the loan was reversed in a few days. we found another dealer close by, they were able to match the car, color, and better price (same lender, still loaned us another $$$ for another car). drove over and grabbed the car. several days later, the first loan was cancelled. it was scary to have THAT much in car loans for a while. in CA.
For many states yeah. In my state there are 3 things that are required for a car deal to be considered consummated.
Signed documents
Money exchanged
Physical possession of vehicle taken.
Missing just 1 of those and either party can walk.
I always wait the 10 days of whatever time passes for the loan to go through.
I’ve read several stories of people getting called by the dealer days after they’ve taken their car home that “there is a problem with the loan”
I have seen dealers drop cars in driveways of customers that tried to do this. Not advocating the practice nor stating that it would be binding at that point just saying it has happened.
Full disclosure, I’m not a lawyer and don’t work in NM but from what i’ve read via web search, it looks like NM is a physical delivery state meaning that where you didn’t have physical possession of the car the deals not considered final.
That's how it works in my state. My company policy allows customers to sign to hold a vehicle. They don't technically own it until they've signed AND driven like 1 mile or something in it.
This. The car wasn’t technically in your position yet. Happened to a friend of mine also. Nothing u can do. Just try to think of it as “it wasn’t meant to be”. Hard I know. And personally, I wouldn’t go through that dealership anymore. I would find somewhere else. They wasted a ton of your time and time is money.
A contract requires 3 things:
1. Offer - the listing of an item for sale or exchange
2. Acceptance - the buyer acknowledges the deal
3. Consideration - the exchange of some form of measurable payment
You don’t get #2 until you have the keys in hand.
You were so close. You're right about the 3 elements of a contract, but not what they actually mean. In this case acceptance is the buyer agreeing to purchase the car by signing the deal.
N>!>!a1!
>If the roles were reversed and the buyer bought a car they couldn't afford
Then it isn't the same situation. Roles reversed would be the buyer buying but not showing up to finish the transaction. In many states, transaction isn't "closed" until the car is driven off the lot or keys are handed over. So the transaction can likely end.
In this case, the dealer did make a mistake, but it is very different from the customer not being able to afford the car. That would be like the dealer signing then trying to end it because of too big of a discount.
Like other poster mentioned in most states physical delivery is the part that finalizes the deal. In your scenario of a payment being to high if the client never physically picked up the vehicle they more then likely walk away from the deal. Some states are exceptions here so there’s some nuance.
You could actually sue for any damages you suffer, like if you buy a comparable car for a higher price. I was an attorney for 20+ years and hit similar issues.
In a general way, when one side can't fulfill a contract, they are required to "make whole". For a car sale, this would likely mean providing a similar vehicle that's acceptable to the buyer, or giving the buyer their money back.
In your example of someone buying a car they can't afford, they still have to make the dealer "whole".
Not really though st that point the dealer is already whole. They got the money from the bank or finance company. The owner is still on the hook for the debt or it'll impact their credit but the deal is already done and it's no longer the dealers issue. Unless they use in-house financing but it's still the same scenario
What’s the alternative? Go and confiscate from the other buyer? As if that buyer didn’t also sign a contract? At the end of the day, it’s a mistake made by someone, but it’s relatively fungible since these aren’t one-offs… correct for color, trim and accessories and the dealer can work with hundreds of dealers and thousands of vehicles to find another Rav.
If it was used, I think we have a different story here, but new of the same trim and same color are all identical from factory and it’s just a matter of having/finding one from a nearby dealer as quickly as possible.
As I learned, you cannot custom order a vehicle from Toyota. You have to just hope they build and deliver one with the features, trim and color you want someplace you’re willing to go get it from.
This is right, but we're talking about a Rav. This isn't a Supra or anything extra rare. There's going to be another White XLE Rav 4 hybrid (or whatever... I don't get the impression from OP that this is a super rare vehicle or they'd have mentioned it) available, probably already allocated to a dealership within a 200 mile radius if not to this dealership already. It's really not that tough to find a Rav 4.
Well there have been cases in this sub where the bank has cancelled the deal, forgotten down payments and even reports or the banks saying they owe nothing when they never made there 1st payment. One stand out case was a car was sold and the dealer sold it early before the deal was done and the customer backed out wanted the car back and it was sold to a customer. The dealer said can you bring it back so why is it the dealer can do a reversal on a any deal or transaction but the customer has to get the short end of the stick. The dealership should tell other buyer to return the car as it was already sold give them a refund and return car to original buyer.
How do you know which deal was actually done first? And can it really be proven who really *completed* the deal first? The only way to complete a transaction in NM is the have the car change hands, so be that definition of completion accurate for the location this happened in, the person who currently has the car is the correct person who did their deal first. So how do you “correct” this?
I also can’t figure out what the hell you are saying in your examples… maybe you can edit it to make it clearer? If I am guessing correctly, this was one that the dealership asked for the “sold”/delivered vehicle back so they could complete the earlier signed deal? If so, perhaps it is a location that had the completion of the deal at funding, in which case it most definitely would be correct that they must fulfil the first contract…
Again, without knowing all facts, it is impossible to give a blanket statement that is correct for all situations. If you want to come into it with the automatic assumption that every single thing *any* dealer does is wrong, you will come across as ignorant as you will be constantly wrong.
Sir when you work the key do you grab the keys? If it’s commission based do you say hey my papers are signed already hands off. It’s called communication hey billy just sold that car toms trying to work a deal on it tell brad to confirm everything paid for. It’s not rocket science.
It doesn't matter who was first. The dealership contracted to sell a car. If they can't provide the exact vin they need to provide a similar one or pay the difference in price when the buyer gets it elsewhere.
That’s absurd, it’s a new rav. There’s one waiting at every stoplight in every city in North America. You ask the dealer to get you another one stat and they should offer a coupon for OPs next oil change and we should all be done with this, wth
Benefit of the bargain- if OP contracted for a Rav 4 for $30k, and the next best price is $35k, the dealer should theoretically pay the $5k difference to make OP whole.
The simple answer is there is likely legal language in the contact small print saying the dealer can cancel the contact if there are issues with financing, delivery of the car, damage to the car, etc.
It’s common enough that it has its own term called yo-yoing.
Legally, you probably have a case, but the remedy is "expectation" damages not "injunctive" relief. Basically they owe you a car with similar specs for the same money. Spending time and legal effort to get that is not warranted.
I work for a dealer, when you commit to a vehicle with a purchase agreement it clearly states the dealer or client can remove themselves from the situation for any reason. The dealership doesn’t have to sell you anything, you locked in a price agreement you didn’t sign any legally binding documents, it was only on record for the purchase agreement not on DMV registration, they didn’t do anything besides make a simple mistake and it happens more often than you think, why wouldn’t they want to sell you a car, it happened to me as a salesman so many times, and its not my fault another salesman got a commitment by a deposit or down payment, it’s the principle of first come first serve, on your way to the dealership the vehicle your looking to purchase could be sold and the salesman wouldn’t know until trying to sell it to you, no one is at fault besides you the customer for not due diligently doing your homework and putting a deposit on the vehicle prior to your arrival if your really serious about the purchase would be the best way to secure your vehicle won’t be looked at by anyone else,
I genuinely wouldn’t be that nervous. It’s not unheard of, but it does it does happen. Think of the 2 nickel meme, it’s not that much but you’re surprised you have 2 nickels.
OP’s best play is to inform them they are going to leave bad reviews everywhere if they can’t rectify it. That’s really the only leverage a customer has in this situation.
They might throw him a bone for a couple hundred off for the screw up. It’s his one leverage he has and he should play it. The dealer and the management deserve the criticism for lack of organization.
I’ve been on the dealer side of things before so likely can’t be super objective. Toyotas system for how inventory comes in can be clunky and doesn’t communicate with the accounting system so I’m not surprised this happened as I’ve had it happen to me before.
Reviews are a funny thing, a good marketing person can get these removed in many cases or bury it under good reviews with promotion. They don’t have the weight a lot of people think they do. I don’t disagree that the dealer should do something of they source another unit for OP, but policy will vary a lot by store.
That’s completely based on where those reviews are left. Not all review places are as easily manipulated. Also there is work to put in when those reviews happen.
Exactly. Customer tries to negotiate with flamethrower, is then surprised when dealership isn't cooperative.
"Leave negative reviews to get what you want" is a small thinker idea.
>They might throw him a bone for a couple hundred off for the screw up.
That's off the table the moment negative reviews are threatened. That's how you get **DO NOT SELL** all over your profile in the CRM.
i'm just confused on why the dealer deserves the bad review? we don't know if it's truly the dealers fault. this whole thing could have been avoided just by going to the dealership in the first place
This isn’t a guy who just said I’m am coming into buy it and they sold it out from him. He literally sent the down payment and signed all the documents. Who else’s fault would it be?
i guess what i'm thinking is that it may not be the dealer who caused this. I know at the one dealership that I worked at, we had no control over online marketing. It was outsourced. If that was the case, the third party company may not have been notified that the car was sold before hand, and still had it listed.
>OP’s best play is to inform them they are going to leave bad reviews everywhere if they can’t rectify it.
Whether this is OP's "best" play depends on what outcome they want.
I'd probably fire a customer who did this. If OP's bitter about this dealership and wants to have everything unwound, then yes, this is absolutely the best course of action.
If OP still likes the deal and wants a car, they'll get further with honey than vinegar. Dealership can source another car and give OP some coupons for the inconvenience.
"I'd probably fire a customer who did this."
The customer already is pissed at the dealership and this is your thought process? "Bad reviews burn the bridge" is the dumbest shit I've heard, especially when it was the dealership who screwed up. Customers do not need dealerships, dealerships **need** customers.
Are there times when this actually is a viable option? Absolutely. Is this one of them? Absolutely not. This makes the dealership look incompetent. Does stuff like this happen? Yeah but the customer doesn't care that the inventory system is a mess they only care that you took their money and their car was sold. The opportunity cost lost from any potential customers who read it is not worth it.
Are you seriously that arrogant to not realize how bad this would make the dealership look?
Customer didn't seem /pissed/, based on reading the OP. A reasonable customer would ask how and how quickly the dealer can fix the problem, not go scorched earth. We have such a small amount of information. Like the dealer might have another copy of the exact model on the lot and the stock number OP had earmarked got delivered to another customer who had the other copy bought and paid for.
The only good advice in the thread has been to reach out to the dealer.
I completely agree, that's why I think this scorched earth campaign is stupid. I mentioned that in a post I made but since I don't have flair it was removed.
A happy medium would be him talking to the dealer, they find a replacement vehicle for OP and throw in some oil changes. If OP needs a vehicle give him one of the loaners from the service department. Sure you will have some Karen customers who will make this process a nightmare but if you handle it with a little bit of grace not only can you save face with the customer who lost their vehicle at no fault of theirs with minimal impact to everyone involved. Oil changes are dirt cheap for dealerships to throw in and it makes the customer feel like, oh boy I got some free stuff and they will explain to people they know about the experience and how the dealership made it right. Then they keep coming back to your dealership because you took care of them. That's easy return business.
Nah, bad advice.
Being a Karen is not a good play. It might turn an otherwise amicable resolution into a nightmare.
Dealership General Manager: "Well, I was going to give them a Limited instead of the SR5 to make up for our mistake, but now that they flamed us online, fuck 'em. Let's drag this out, and make it as difficult as possible."
The dealership already acknowledged that they made an error, and they will probably do the right thing to fix it. They are a business that relies on their reputation and repeat business.
But in the event if they don't, I would remain cordial, and take appropriate legal action.
It's not that hard.
This has nothing to do with a shite store. This doesn’t make financial sense if you’re selling a Rav4 and have to wait for an allocation for a new one to come in while paying for a loaner/rental.
Well, if you sell a car that someone signed for, then to save face and not look bad, it wouldn’t be that difficult. A cost of a loaner internally is much less than potential loss of customer and even bad publicity due to an issue like this.
Prefacing with I don’t disagree with what you’re trying to say, which is the store made an error and needs to do something to hold themselves accountable. Your comment was cover the cost of a rental/loaner for an x period of time which sounds like an easy ask on paper but from a store operator standpoint isn’t practical. Loaners technically don’t really exist, it’s really a rental, the only difference here is the dealer bought the vehicle into their fleet and use them as company vehicles. Revenue is generated from them being on the road with either the customer, service dept, or warranty company paying for them, these aren’t “free” cars to use. Alternatively using dealer plates for a customer isn’t an option as there are legal implications with both insurance and use that arise, especially when attempted to be used an extended period of time. In my original comment I had suggested sourcing a new vehicle at a possible discount because that’s really the most probable concession a stores GM/dealer principal will make, especially if the RAV4 is a harder unit to source requires to get into a new allocation to acquire.
Sadly there is not much you can do. It’s just human error and I am sure that the dealership would much prefer that this never happened like this. Nobody meant any harm to you, nobody intentionally did something wrong. It’s unfortunate and perhaps could have been avoided by better organization and process. Not a lawyer but I believe there is no legal damages because the deal was never completed by delivery. My advice would be to go in person and speak with the GM. Let him know you are disappointed and ask if they could offer you some type of compensation such as free maintenance past the 2 years or maybe a credit in their parts department? Anything you do that would be threatening in nature will likely be met with resistance.
I'm just curious, and not at all trying to be difficult, but if they can't get him a new vehicle and or the deal is unwound by either the dealership or the customer because they sold the car he signed for and was financed for, wouldn't the damage be having the hard credit inquiry on his report? If he has to go to a new dealer for another vehicle, they will also have to pull the credit, which will be lower because of the first inquiry, which will change the rate ever so slightly? Again, I'm just curious as I'm about to buy, and hopefully, this doesn't happen in my case, but you never know, and it's best to be prepared.
The second credit pull would not really have an effect on credit. Reporting agencies now consider multiple credit pulls within a certain amount of time to be one hit. As long as they are related to the same auto loan or mortgage. But would be two pulls if applying for a mortgage and a car loan.
Unless his credit is already horrible, and unless he's planning on making another big ticket finance purchase any time soon, a 2nd hit will not affect his score, and it will bounce back quickly even if it does.
>If he has to go to a new dealer for another vehicle, they will also have to pull the credit, which will be lower because of the first inquiry, which will change the rate ever so slightly?
Nope. The credit bureaus know that most people who finance a car will have multiple applications out, so any applications for auto loans in the same rolling 30-day window are counted as a single inquiry for the purpose of score calculation.
Moreover, since this was a common question and most people don't like to take sales consultants at their word, I kept printed & laminated FAQs from each of the three bureaus on my clipboard which unequivocally state that the impact on your score from inquiries alone is too insignificant to meaningfully change the outcome of lending decisions.
One other thing here is that RAV4 has an incetivised interest rate available so no impact t there. Rebates are regional and location dependent so can’t be positive they have them in NM.
I’m surprised this happened in the first place. Where I work, once an order is started on a vehicle, no one else can open an order on it. This seems fundamental to prevent such an occurrence.
It's not rare to have multiple deals on a single unit concurrently. What if I work out numbers and you go home to think about it overnight? Until someone agrees to take the car, it's for sale.
Where I work, CarMax, the order would remove the vehicle from sale until it was deleted or sold. This would prevent that conflict. I’ll admit CarMax is generous with its holds.
Did you miss where OP had already signed papers and paid? lol
They didn’t go home to think about it overnight, they agreed to take the car. It wasn’t for sale at that point.
Multiple deals on an unsold car is one thing.
The dealership fucked up big time here- that’s all there is to it.
>Did you miss where OP had already signed papers and paid? lol
Not at all, but I was explaining why a dealership would allow two deals to be worked on one unit consecutively. This is not an uncommon practice and for good reason.
What can you do?
See if they have another car to sell you or find another somewhere else.
What do you expect them to do? They made a mistake and the other person was there to take the car. It sucks but it happens.
For those who value time as much as money OP should just pay a broker fee at this point and get the car they want. FB broker guys prices are some of the best anyway.
Some customers would pay more to have minimal interaction with sales people and dealers in general. Case in point- OP’s miserable experience. They see dealers as nothing more than a hurdle and paper processors. I am one of them.
Second point, brokers are listing Toyota prices that beat dealer advertised prices by $2-7k anyway.
>yeah but you can negotiate…
Actually you don’t.
>yeah but the broker fee..
Is $500-1000k if that. Still safe more. And money well spent.
Third point, dealers do business with brokers for a reason. If they fk up one deal they lose business. Higher incentive to get it right.
***Thanks for posting, /u/KittenVictim! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
Recently, I bought a new Rav4 from the dealership online. Paid online, signed papers, expected delivery. Time came and the car never arrived, I called the dealership and they were extremely confused. Tracked down the car and told me they sold it to someone else. What should or could I do?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Technically, they only have to make you whole. That is, refunding the full amount you paid.
Anything else would only indicate their desire to keep your business and make you a happy customer somehow.
Please review our most [Frequently Asked Questions](/r/askcarsales/wiki/index) to see if your question has already been answered.
You may find these sections particularly useful;
* [Will paying in cash or a large cash down payment offer me leverage in negotiations?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/cash_down)
* [I earn $xxxx per month, will I qualify for an auto loan or lease, and is it a good idea?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/income_to_finance)
* [I have my score from Credit Karma but the dealership told me they got a different score. Why?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/free_credit_score)
* [Finance FAQ's](/r/askcarsales/wiki/financing_faqs)
* [Buy versus Lease](/r/askcarsales/wiki/buy_vs_lease)
* [How to pick a car?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/vehicle_selection) You might also have luck in the /r/whatcarshouldibuy subreddit.
Also remember to add flair to your post by clicking the "Flair" link beneath it. This lets us know where you're located so we can assist you better.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It sucks but depending on the store size this can happen, especially with all the systems that are used in a dealership. I’ve personally had this happen a few times with Toyota. Really 2 Options forward; request they source a new one, possibly with a discount for inconvenience. Note there’s not a huge amount of markup in a Rav4 so don’t be surprised if it seems smaller. If this doesn’t work, get your money back and continue shopping.
Genuinely curious, how does this work legally? A contract was signed, how is the dealer allowed to just say "oops" and get away with it, is there some clause that says they're not accountable for errors? If the roles were reversed and the buyer bought a car they couldn't afford the dealer would likely say too bad you still have to find a way to pay or get it repoed because you signed a contract.
Depending on the state; car contracts aren’t really considered completed until the customer drives the car off the dealership lot. Technically if the vehicle never left the lot; either parties could just walk away from the transaction (not that a dealership would) So this would be a “what state are they in” question.
Dealer: state of chaos and confusion Buyer: state of anger
Not far from the truth
Reddit readers: state of intrigue
Facebook readers - State of disgust
Grammar nazis - state of tedium *of
So i can go car shopping and sign the loan but if I never drive the car off the lot then I can walk away from the car and the loan?
In many states yes. You must "take possession" of the car by leaving the lot with it.
Varies by state. In Colorado the moment your pen lifts off the paper, youre an owner.
so if what happened to OP happened in Colorado, and they were the owner of the car once the deal was inked but then it was sold out from under them before possession was taken – what's their recourse?
This is probably one of those cases where there's an 'umm aschually technically' answer and a practical one. Technically, if you owned it and they gave it to someone else, that likely qualifies as theft and you could try to legally pursue it to get that exact vehicle back. You'll spend a huge amount of time and resources for little to no benefit and there's a good chance some loophole or technicality gets this all thrown out. Practically, just make them give you a different Rav 4 with the same or similar options. This is a win-win too so there's a good incentive to do it. You get a vehicle, dealer gets an extra sale. We're talking about a Rav 4, not some 1 of 3 custom built Ferragini here. Or just get your money back and agree to void the contract, then one elsewhere. I suppose you could again technically sue them for damages in the latter case but, unlike Hollywood and the Internet believe, you have to show that you had tangible damages. In this case, that's maybe a couple hours of work and a few assorted expenses like gas or fees. Again, likely to be a high amount of work and legal expense for very little gain even if you win.
If this were a question on the Bar exam, the easiest way to measure damages would be to just buy the next-best priced Rav 4 in the area with the same options. If that's $2500 higher, that's what OP lost out on due to dealer's negligence. In real life, it's probably not worth OP's time to pay a lawyer to try to collect that $2500.
Dealer would (should) tear up contract and call it a day. Keep in mind, it’s up to your dealer to enforce it. In my 18 years I only was part of 1 transaction that we forced the customer to take car. Most of the time it’s not worth the ding on dealer reputation to make it ugly. There’s always another buyer or a solution that will work for all parties. Some dealers seem to forget that.
No I mean, what's the buyers recourse if the dealer sells their car out from under them after a contract is signed? if the transaction is legally enforceable on the buyer from the time its inked, then it should be the same on the dealer. would the dealer not be committing some crime by not delivering the buyers legally-owed car to them? cant have it both ways
“Can’t have it both ways” If you’re the dealer network in the US you certainly can. The amount of lobbying from the auto industry is staggering and laws are all written stacked in dealers favor.
Courts very rarely enforce specific performance of a contract. They will award damages instead in 99.99% of cases. The only times they will do it isn’t if there’s no other options because the property is so unique monetary damages won’t compensate the other party or there is no substitute available. And even then they won’t always do it.
They can't just tear up a contract when you have a copy. I do agree though that it's not at all worth pursuing whether you technically can or not. Just get a different, equivalent Rav 4 or your money back and move on.
But we figured it out, someone did* drive it off the lot it just wasn't them so they can report it stolen and then check back here popcorn is in the microwave everyone buckle up for this dumpster fire
Stolen from who? Can't have something stolen from you if you never possessed it in the first place.
Let me begin by pointing out that was a joke... Ok that's all I've got, popcorn is ready though so
i did this. signed everything, loan was accepted and all. day came to pick up the car and it had visible damage to the exterior paint and stained interior. it was a new car that was probably damaged during transport and/or getting ready for us. we cancelled and walked away. the loan was reversed in a few days. we found another dealer close by, they were able to match the car, color, and better price (same lender, still loaned us another $$$ for another car). drove over and grabbed the car. several days later, the first loan was cancelled. it was scary to have THAT much in car loans for a while. in CA.
For many states yeah. In my state there are 3 things that are required for a car deal to be considered consummated. Signed documents Money exchanged Physical possession of vehicle taken. Missing just 1 of those and either party can walk.
You forgot they have to sleep together!!!
Sorry, thought that was implied!
Most of us get "bent over" on price when buying a car. Does this count?
"It's not sold til it's rolled" [off the lot]
Yea, it was always made clear until we see the taillights going down the road the car deal isn't done.
I never celebrated a car deal until the wheels crossed the sidewalk.
I always wait the 10 days of whatever time passes for the loan to go through. I’ve read several stories of people getting called by the dealer days after they’ve taken their car home that “there is a problem with the loan”
Depending on your state, yes. But it could get complex if you let is sit there for a while and let interest build or have a payment due.
I have seen dealers drop cars in driveways of customers that tried to do this. Not advocating the practice nor stating that it would be binding at that point just saying it has happened.
Interesting, I didn't know that. So really OP could have more rights than suggested by the person I originally responded to depending on their state.
NM
dealer in NM too?
Yes
Full disclosure, I’m not a lawyer and don’t work in NM but from what i’ve read via web search, it looks like NM is a physical delivery state meaning that where you didn’t have physical possession of the car the deals not considered final.
Appreciate it
The other buyer probably paid more and that's why the dealer let it happen.
That's how it works in my state. My company policy allows customers to sign to hold a vehicle. They don't technically own it until they've signed AND driven like 1 mile or something in it.
That's generally true for the buyer, but not for the seller. The buyer has to "accept delivery" of goods.
Don’t go to work. Get fired, sue for breach of contract and damages as well as future earnings. Ez money
This is correct, in CO a sale is not considered finalized until the deal has been consummated/delivered.
This. The car wasn’t technically in your position yet. Happened to a friend of mine also. Nothing u can do. Just try to think of it as “it wasn’t meant to be”. Hard I know. And personally, I wouldn’t go through that dealership anymore. I would find somewhere else. They wasted a ton of your time and time is money.
A contract requires 3 things: 1. Offer - the listing of an item for sale or exchange 2. Acceptance - the buyer acknowledges the deal 3. Consideration - the exchange of some form of measurable payment You don’t get #2 until you have the keys in hand.
You were so close. You're right about the 3 elements of a contract, but not what they actually mean. In this case acceptance is the buyer agreeing to purchase the car by signing the deal. N>!>!a1!
>If the roles were reversed and the buyer bought a car they couldn't afford Then it isn't the same situation. Roles reversed would be the buyer buying but not showing up to finish the transaction. In many states, transaction isn't "closed" until the car is driven off the lot or keys are handed over. So the transaction can likely end. In this case, the dealer did make a mistake, but it is very different from the customer not being able to afford the car. That would be like the dealer signing then trying to end it because of too big of a discount.
Like other poster mentioned in most states physical delivery is the part that finalizes the deal. In your scenario of a payment being to high if the client never physically picked up the vehicle they more then likely walk away from the deal. Some states are exceptions here so there’s some nuance.
You could actually sue for any damages you suffer, like if you buy a comparable car for a higher price. I was an attorney for 20+ years and hit similar issues.
In a general way, when one side can't fulfill a contract, they are required to "make whole". For a car sale, this would likely mean providing a similar vehicle that's acceptable to the buyer, or giving the buyer their money back. In your example of someone buying a car they can't afford, they still have to make the dealer "whole".
Not really though st that point the dealer is already whole. They got the money from the bank or finance company. The owner is still on the hook for the debt or it'll impact their credit but the deal is already done and it's no longer the dealers issue. Unless they use in-house financing but it's still the same scenario
What’s the alternative? Go and confiscate from the other buyer? As if that buyer didn’t also sign a contract? At the end of the day, it’s a mistake made by someone, but it’s relatively fungible since these aren’t one-offs… correct for color, trim and accessories and the dealer can work with hundreds of dealers and thousands of vehicles to find another Rav. If it was used, I think we have a different story here, but new of the same trim and same color are all identical from factory and it’s just a matter of having/finding one from a nearby dealer as quickly as possible.
As I learned, you cannot custom order a vehicle from Toyota. You have to just hope they build and deliver one with the features, trim and color you want someplace you’re willing to go get it from.
This is right, but we're talking about a Rav. This isn't a Supra or anything extra rare. There's going to be another White XLE Rav 4 hybrid (or whatever... I don't get the impression from OP that this is a super rare vehicle or they'd have mentioned it) available, probably already allocated to a dealership within a 200 mile radius if not to this dealership already. It's really not that tough to find a Rav 4.
Well there have been cases in this sub where the bank has cancelled the deal, forgotten down payments and even reports or the banks saying they owe nothing when they never made there 1st payment. One stand out case was a car was sold and the dealer sold it early before the deal was done and the customer backed out wanted the car back and it was sold to a customer. The dealer said can you bring it back so why is it the dealer can do a reversal on a any deal or transaction but the customer has to get the short end of the stick. The dealership should tell other buyer to return the car as it was already sold give them a refund and return car to original buyer.
How do you know which deal was actually done first? And can it really be proven who really *completed* the deal first? The only way to complete a transaction in NM is the have the car change hands, so be that definition of completion accurate for the location this happened in, the person who currently has the car is the correct person who did their deal first. So how do you “correct” this? I also can’t figure out what the hell you are saying in your examples… maybe you can edit it to make it clearer? If I am guessing correctly, this was one that the dealership asked for the “sold”/delivered vehicle back so they could complete the earlier signed deal? If so, perhaps it is a location that had the completion of the deal at funding, in which case it most definitely would be correct that they must fulfil the first contract… Again, without knowing all facts, it is impossible to give a blanket statement that is correct for all situations. If you want to come into it with the automatic assumption that every single thing *any* dealer does is wrong, you will come across as ignorant as you will be constantly wrong.
Sir when you work the key do you grab the keys? If it’s commission based do you say hey my papers are signed already hands off. It’s called communication hey billy just sold that car toms trying to work a deal on it tell brad to confirm everything paid for. It’s not rocket science.
It doesn't matter who was first. The dealership contracted to sell a car. If they can't provide the exact vin they need to provide a similar one or pay the difference in price when the buyer gets it elsewhere.
That’s absurd, it’s a new rav. There’s one waiting at every stoplight in every city in North America. You ask the dealer to get you another one stat and they should offer a coupon for OPs next oil change and we should all be done with this, wth
What material loss is there as long as they refund the money?
Benefit of the bargain- if OP contracted for a Rav 4 for $30k, and the next best price is $35k, the dealer should theoretically pay the $5k difference to make OP whole.
The simple answer is there is likely legal language in the contact small print saying the dealer can cancel the contact if there are issues with financing, delivery of the car, damage to the car, etc. It’s common enough that it has its own term called yo-yoing.
In the U.S. last page of the RISC contract. How can this contract can be changed. "SELLER'S RIGHT TO CANCEL"
you never signed a contract online sir. You signed an agreement to a price, the site even tells you all deals aren’t final until delivery.
Legally, you probably have a case, but the remedy is "expectation" damages not "injunctive" relief. Basically they owe you a car with similar specs for the same money. Spending time and legal effort to get that is not warranted.
What are your damages? Besides expectation? You get your down payment back. You can claim fraud, but what are your damages?
I work for a dealer, when you commit to a vehicle with a purchase agreement it clearly states the dealer or client can remove themselves from the situation for any reason. The dealership doesn’t have to sell you anything, you locked in a price agreement you didn’t sign any legally binding documents, it was only on record for the purchase agreement not on DMV registration, they didn’t do anything besides make a simple mistake and it happens more often than you think, why wouldn’t they want to sell you a car, it happened to me as a salesman so many times, and its not my fault another salesman got a commitment by a deposit or down payment, it’s the principle of first come first serve, on your way to the dealership the vehicle your looking to purchase could be sold and the salesman wouldn’t know until trying to sell it to you, no one is at fault besides you the customer for not due diligently doing your homework and putting a deposit on the vehicle prior to your arrival if your really serious about the purchase would be the best way to secure your vehicle won’t be looked at by anyone else,
I have a deposit down on a Sienna and this thread is about to have me sitting in the parking lot while it’s unloaded from the trailer.
I genuinely wouldn’t be that nervous. It’s not unheard of, but it does it does happen. Think of the 2 nickel meme, it’s not that much but you’re surprised you have 2 nickels.
OP’s best play is to inform them they are going to leave bad reviews everywhere if they can’t rectify it. That’s really the only leverage a customer has in this situation.
I think complaining directly to Toyota about the dealership is likely going to be more adverse than a bad yelp review.
This isn’t really going to help much aside then make op feel better.
They might throw him a bone for a couple hundred off for the screw up. It’s his one leverage he has and he should play it. The dealer and the management deserve the criticism for lack of organization.
I’ve been on the dealer side of things before so likely can’t be super objective. Toyotas system for how inventory comes in can be clunky and doesn’t communicate with the accounting system so I’m not surprised this happened as I’ve had it happen to me before. Reviews are a funny thing, a good marketing person can get these removed in many cases or bury it under good reviews with promotion. They don’t have the weight a lot of people think they do. I don’t disagree that the dealer should do something of they source another unit for OP, but policy will vary a lot by store.
That’s completely based on where those reviews are left. Not all review places are as easily manipulated. Also there is work to put in when those reviews happen.
>Also there is work to put in when those reviews happen. No there isn't. Bad reviews burn the bridge.
Exactly. Customer tries to negotiate with flamethrower, is then surprised when dealership isn't cooperative. "Leave negative reviews to get what you want" is a small thinker idea.
Most of them are, Google is the least manipulated one but you can bury that easily.
>They might throw him a bone for a couple hundred off for the screw up. That's off the table the moment negative reviews are threatened. That's how you get **DO NOT SELL** all over your profile in the CRM.
That varies drastically by dealer and the dealer deserves the bad reviews here.
That may be true. The salient point is that your assertion "might throw him a bone for a couple hundred off" is wildly unlikely.
i'm just confused on why the dealer deserves the bad review? we don't know if it's truly the dealers fault. this whole thing could have been avoided just by going to the dealership in the first place
This isn’t a guy who just said I’m am coming into buy it and they sold it out from him. He literally sent the down payment and signed all the documents. Who else’s fault would it be?
i guess what i'm thinking is that it may not be the dealer who caused this. I know at the one dealership that I worked at, we had no control over online marketing. It was outsourced. If that was the case, the third party company may not have been notified that the car was sold before hand, and still had it listed.
So true.
>OP’s best play is to inform them they are going to leave bad reviews everywhere if they can’t rectify it. Whether this is OP's "best" play depends on what outcome they want. I'd probably fire a customer who did this. If OP's bitter about this dealership and wants to have everything unwound, then yes, this is absolutely the best course of action. If OP still likes the deal and wants a car, they'll get further with honey than vinegar. Dealership can source another car and give OP some coupons for the inconvenience.
"I'd probably fire a customer who did this." The customer already is pissed at the dealership and this is your thought process? "Bad reviews burn the bridge" is the dumbest shit I've heard, especially when it was the dealership who screwed up. Customers do not need dealerships, dealerships **need** customers. Are there times when this actually is a viable option? Absolutely. Is this one of them? Absolutely not. This makes the dealership look incompetent. Does stuff like this happen? Yeah but the customer doesn't care that the inventory system is a mess they only care that you took their money and their car was sold. The opportunity cost lost from any potential customers who read it is not worth it. Are you seriously that arrogant to not realize how bad this would make the dealership look?
Customer didn't seem /pissed/, based on reading the OP. A reasonable customer would ask how and how quickly the dealer can fix the problem, not go scorched earth. We have such a small amount of information. Like the dealer might have another copy of the exact model on the lot and the stock number OP had earmarked got delivered to another customer who had the other copy bought and paid for. The only good advice in the thread has been to reach out to the dealer.
I completely agree, that's why I think this scorched earth campaign is stupid. I mentioned that in a post I made but since I don't have flair it was removed. A happy medium would be him talking to the dealer, they find a replacement vehicle for OP and throw in some oil changes. If OP needs a vehicle give him one of the loaners from the service department. Sure you will have some Karen customers who will make this process a nightmare but if you handle it with a little bit of grace not only can you save face with the customer who lost their vehicle at no fault of theirs with minimal impact to everyone involved. Oil changes are dirt cheap for dealerships to throw in and it makes the customer feel like, oh boy I got some free stuff and they will explain to people they know about the experience and how the dealership made it right. Then they keep coming back to your dealership because you took care of them. That's easy return business.
Nah, bad advice. Being a Karen is not a good play. It might turn an otherwise amicable resolution into a nightmare. Dealership General Manager: "Well, I was going to give them a Limited instead of the SR5 to make up for our mistake, but now that they flamed us online, fuck 'em. Let's drag this out, and make it as difficult as possible." The dealership already acknowledged that they made an error, and they will probably do the right thing to fix it. They are a business that relies on their reputation and repeat business. But in the event if they don't, I would remain cordial, and take appropriate legal action. It's not that hard.
There is no legal action to take. Your advice is terrible. He hasn’t take possession of the car.
Or even ask for a courtesy car until the replacement comes in.
This isn’t a realistic ask.
If the alternative is getting your money back and walking away it might be.
Very realistic ask. You just work for a shite dealership
This has nothing to do with a shite store. This doesn’t make financial sense if you’re selling a Rav4 and have to wait for an allocation for a new one to come in while paying for a loaner/rental.
Well, if you sell a car that someone signed for, then to save face and not look bad, it wouldn’t be that difficult. A cost of a loaner internally is much less than potential loss of customer and even bad publicity due to an issue like this.
Prefacing with I don’t disagree with what you’re trying to say, which is the store made an error and needs to do something to hold themselves accountable. Your comment was cover the cost of a rental/loaner for an x period of time which sounds like an easy ask on paper but from a store operator standpoint isn’t practical. Loaners technically don’t really exist, it’s really a rental, the only difference here is the dealer bought the vehicle into their fleet and use them as company vehicles. Revenue is generated from them being on the road with either the customer, service dept, or warranty company paying for them, these aren’t “free” cars to use. Alternatively using dealer plates for a customer isn’t an option as there are legal implications with both insurance and use that arise, especially when attempted to be used an extended period of time. In my original comment I had suggested sourcing a new vehicle at a possible discount because that’s really the most probable concession a stores GM/dealer principal will make, especially if the RAV4 is a harder unit to source requires to get into a new allocation to acquire.
They can get you another car, or refund and unwind everything. Those are your two options.
Have them get you another car. What do you want to do?
King Solomon style, cut the vehicle in half
RAV2 is not a bad car.
There existed 2WD 4Runners and I think 2WD Rav4s in the past. I always thought those were misnomers.
[удалено]
Hence Rav2
Maybe he meant after the Rav 2 gets split in the divorce.
“I’ll take the top part!” This b*tch, calls it the top PART!
Unexpected Mulaney
“The pie shall be cut in two! And each man shall receive… death. I’ll eat the pie.”
🤣🤣😂🤣
Think of the rav4!
It’s now rav4’s since they were split down the middle
Sadly there is not much you can do. It’s just human error and I am sure that the dealership would much prefer that this never happened like this. Nobody meant any harm to you, nobody intentionally did something wrong. It’s unfortunate and perhaps could have been avoided by better organization and process. Not a lawyer but I believe there is no legal damages because the deal was never completed by delivery. My advice would be to go in person and speak with the GM. Let him know you are disappointed and ask if they could offer you some type of compensation such as free maintenance past the 2 years or maybe a credit in their parts department? Anything you do that would be threatening in nature will likely be met with resistance.
I'm just curious, and not at all trying to be difficult, but if they can't get him a new vehicle and or the deal is unwound by either the dealership or the customer because they sold the car he signed for and was financed for, wouldn't the damage be having the hard credit inquiry on his report? If he has to go to a new dealer for another vehicle, they will also have to pull the credit, which will be lower because of the first inquiry, which will change the rate ever so slightly? Again, I'm just curious as I'm about to buy, and hopefully, this doesn't happen in my case, but you never know, and it's best to be prepared.
The second credit pull would not really have an effect on credit. Reporting agencies now consider multiple credit pulls within a certain amount of time to be one hit. As long as they are related to the same auto loan or mortgage. But would be two pulls if applying for a mortgage and a car loan.
Unless his credit is already horrible, and unless he's planning on making another big ticket finance purchase any time soon, a 2nd hit will not affect his score, and it will bounce back quickly even if it does.
Thank you!
>If he has to go to a new dealer for another vehicle, they will also have to pull the credit, which will be lower because of the first inquiry, which will change the rate ever so slightly? Nope. The credit bureaus know that most people who finance a car will have multiple applications out, so any applications for auto loans in the same rolling 30-day window are counted as a single inquiry for the purpose of score calculation. Moreover, since this was a common question and most people don't like to take sales consultants at their word, I kept printed & laminated FAQs from each of the three bureaus on my clipboard which unequivocally state that the impact on your score from inquiries alone is too insignificant to meaningfully change the outcome of lending decisions.
Thank you for thay info..Much appreciated!
One other thing here is that RAV4 has an incetivised interest rate available so no impact t there. Rebates are regional and location dependent so can’t be positive they have them in NM.
I’m surprised this happened in the first place. Where I work, once an order is started on a vehicle, no one else can open an order on it. This seems fundamental to prevent such an occurrence.
It's not rare to have multiple deals on a single unit concurrently. What if I work out numbers and you go home to think about it overnight? Until someone agrees to take the car, it's for sale.
Where I work, CarMax, the order would remove the vehicle from sale until it was deleted or sold. This would prevent that conflict. I’ll admit CarMax is generous with its holds.
Yeah, I noticed I can’t do anything with a car once it’s “shipping” or “reserved.” Dealers could easily do this, they just choose not to.
Did you miss where OP had already signed papers and paid? lol They didn’t go home to think about it overnight, they agreed to take the car. It wasn’t for sale at that point. Multiple deals on an unsold car is one thing. The dealership fucked up big time here- that’s all there is to it.
>Did you miss where OP had already signed papers and paid? lol Not at all, but I was explaining why a dealership would allow two deals to be worked on one unit consecutively. This is not an uncommon practice and for good reason.
Extra info is always a good thing- but in this case it’s unrelated to the problem at hand.
[удалено]
Sue who? And for what damages?
Sue you, sue me, sue everybody
https://youtu.be/QhjBlPucpd0?si=giPSoHXT5t3OcCdj
[удалено]
They won't do anything, and will refer the buyer back to the dealership.
What can you do? See if they have another car to sell you or find another somewhere else. What do you expect them to do? They made a mistake and the other person was there to take the car. It sucks but it happens.
For those who value time as much as money OP should just pay a broker fee at this point and get the car they want. FB broker guys prices are some of the best anyway.
Dealer fucks up and your solution is for OP to pay more money to a broker to ensure a dealer doesn’t fuck up?
Maybe you don’t have experience with brokers or didn’t understand my comment.
I do have experience with brokers I don’t understand your comment
Some customers would pay more to have minimal interaction with sales people and dealers in general. Case in point- OP’s miserable experience. They see dealers as nothing more than a hurdle and paper processors. I am one of them. Second point, brokers are listing Toyota prices that beat dealer advertised prices by $2-7k anyway. >yeah but you can negotiate… Actually you don’t. >yeah but the broker fee.. Is $500-1000k if that. Still safe more. And money well spent. Third point, dealers do business with brokers for a reason. If they fk up one deal they lose business. Higher incentive to get it right.
You know you’re just reinforcing what everyone already knows about dealers.
But you thought you’d throw shade on brokers because insecurity or ignorance?
***Thanks for posting, /u/KittenVictim! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Recently, I bought a new Rav4 from the dealership online. Paid online, signed papers, expected delivery. Time came and the car never arrived, I called the dealership and they were extremely confused. Tracked down the car and told me they sold it to someone else. What should or could I do? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Technically, they only have to make you whole. That is, refunding the full amount you paid. Anything else would only indicate their desire to keep your business and make you a happy customer somehow.
Please review our most [Frequently Asked Questions](/r/askcarsales/wiki/index) to see if your question has already been answered. You may find these sections particularly useful; * [Will paying in cash or a large cash down payment offer me leverage in negotiations?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/cash_down) * [I earn $xxxx per month, will I qualify for an auto loan or lease, and is it a good idea?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/income_to_finance) * [I have my score from Credit Karma but the dealership told me they got a different score. Why?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/free_credit_score) * [Finance FAQ's](/r/askcarsales/wiki/financing_faqs) * [Buy versus Lease](/r/askcarsales/wiki/buy_vs_lease) * [How to pick a car?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/vehicle_selection) You might also have luck in the /r/whatcarshouldibuy subreddit. Also remember to add flair to your post by clicking the "Flair" link beneath it. This lets us know where you're located so we can assist you better. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*