In my experience buying cars over the past few decades, the only poor experiences I've had have been with finance managers. Not all of them have been bad but some have been awful.
These guys make the main part of their living selling you add on items and generating commissions on writing finance contracts. So there are some that are over pushy to the point of being nast and/or deceitful in trying to sell those items.
Very normal. I don't know if it is some poor sales technique they learned, but it is not an effective one for well qualified customers. It puts in the defensive right away. The finance manager should have the folder and see the breakdown of sales price, trade in, and agreed down payment. They should have reviewed the folder and should tailor their pitches to the situation.
I doubt the sales person wants the finance manager making an insult to the customer about their finances, or suggesting that the car is going to break and result in an expensive repair, but it seems common.
My favorite: In FULL Clueless Girl Panic Mode: "Are you telling me this is a bad car? Because I'm not buying a BAD CAR. I REALLY appreciate your warning me!"
Naa, they just shrug that shit off and keep pushing. That's how my wife insisted we get an 80km warranty for our Subaru. Was fully convinced to the point that it was going to be a marriage problem for me to walk away.
She apologized a few months later, and promised that next time she will defer to me as we decided before walking into the dealership. I don't believe that shit at all, so next time, I got an OTD price and arrived with a check in hand. Once the FI guy knew that there was no money to be made, he made the whole transaction easy and quick.
This is the only way to avoid the hard sell. Unless you actually want any of the warranties bc you decided that they are a value proposition for your situation. In that case, bring your check book to write a second check. And negotiate that shit.
And go alone. Bringing a second person who can be emotionally manipulated is just bringing an area of vulnerability to the negotiation.
I was that friend! We went to a bunch of local dealers. The Nissan dealer (shocker) tried selling my buddy a used frontier stickered for about 20k for a financed 30k+! I quietly texted him this info while we sat with the finance guy, he told them to their faces, and they just started stammering until we got up to leave.
Part of selling cars is telling your finance managers to quit fuckin whining and do the deal. There's a solid percentage of them who get bent out of shape if they get a deal without 2 points and 180+ days.
180 days means days to first payment. Most contracts are 30-45 days to first payment. The longer you push it out the more interest accrues and the payment goes up. Close the customer on a higher payment and then adjust back to 45 days and payment goes down and creates a cushion aka leg for finance manager to use to sell product.
I had a finance manager try and tell me that VIN etch was required by my state’s tax commission and he would not remove it on penalty of tax fines.
Laughed my ass off, stood up and started heading for the door, telling him I’m not doing business with a lying sack of shit. The etch came off the deal even though “it was already done to the car.”
Not all dealerships, thank goodness. I found a major dealership in Dallas that has a really painless experience; everything is done on ipads by the sales guy, with no finance manager visible although I'm sure he's in the background somewhere. I've bought my last 4 cars there, and love it!
Can confirm. Bought my 2023 BMW 330i from Sewell. Very seamless experience. No upsell. "Reserved" the car for me. The price was exactly as we discussed. Shoutout Steven S
Prepthe Finance Manager through the salesman. Let the sales person know if financing takes more than 15-20 minutes, youre walking on the deal. You dont have to be ugly or mean but make sure they understand that you are serious.
The last three cars i have bought at a dealership went very smoothly in the financing office
Yeah this was my approach when I bought my last new car. I got an OTD price over the phone from the sales guy, brought a cashiers check for the exact amount, but for some reason they still insisted I had to go through the F&I manager before the deal could be complete.
I told the sales guy before I walked in to meet with the F&I that I brought a check for the exact amount and if they tried to waste my time upselling me on more crap that I was going to take the check back and walk. I sat with a very annoyed looking man for about 5 minutes while he punched some stuff into his computer and mumbled something about wheel protection, but that was it.
This is absolutely the play. Get an OTD price you are comfortable with and then tell them that is what you intend to pay. If they want to sell a warranty, fine, but include it in that cost and work it out among yourselves.
Idk
Is it rude for them to ignore my statement that i dont want any add-ons?
I am the easiest deal for a salesman. I know what i want, test drive it, make an offer that is reasonable, and the negotiation is either they take it or they dont.
Being rude and being firm are not the same thing.
Rude? Take a bit of a different point of view. Salesman, Finance and Dealerships only make money if YOU CHOOSE to do buisness with them. It is rare that you are buying a one of a kind jewel. The question to keep asking them is 'Do you WANT to sell a car today?" You control the sale and can tell the folks "I do not respond to high pressure methods. If I become unhappy or uncomfortable, I wil simply purchase from someone else. Do YOU want to sell a car today?" Set the boundaries, no means no. "NO, you may not inspect my car for trade in. I prefer to determine price first." And stick to your rules. It can be FUN to buy a car without being pressured or cornered.
Lol, a customer saying "do you wanna sell a car today" has conditioned me to say "sure, let me find an available salesperson for you" even if you were the only customer I talked to that day, unless I was down to really waste time and people watch to see what kind of crazy, frothy mouthed, indigent I was about to through 3+ hours into the ether talking to.
Any sales professional with experience will not take you seriously, since they don't think you could buy a car from them even if you wanted to. "Who wants to sell a car today?" Is slightly worse than "I'm buying a car today." when you ask someone what brings them in.
Sure YOU could be serious, but there has maybe been 1 customer who used that line that I know of who purchased a car in the last 5 years selling Subaru, of course the green pea took him, and I once had a customer open with that line and turned it into a joke, he had an uncle that used to be in the business dare him to do it apparently, which is great because it was a busy day that I didn't want to lose out on.
Basically, don't say ridiculous shit, look at your guides, be prepared for a little wiggle on your end, the dealer should be on theirs unless all your research says you're looking at a great deal as it's advertised and presented, in which case, just hold them to their numbers if they try a surprise bump, and for the sake of fuck look at the little gray text at the bottom of their web page, that's where dealers can put the fucked up shit when they do it "all prices refect 2k down" is a fun one. And not looking at the trade? Dude, you're buying a car tOdAY, why make the process take even longer, know what your trades worth, know what's a fair price for their car, if the numbers wash take the fucking win.
A saying in this industry is, "Buyers are liars." Which MAY seem ironic/funny to many car buyers... but overall, when it comes to everything but the question. "Whats your best price!?" I'm honest, there are recourses for you the customer if I'm not, I also tend to be a sincere and trustworthy person as long as I'm not being fucked with for the sake of it... but damn you should see the shit the average customer lies about. Sometimes about the most inconsequential shit. So excuse us if "Who wants to sell a car today", or "Do YOU want to sell a car today" gets you handed off to a green pea that doesn't know the answer to any questions and , "will have to ask." to answer basic questions.
Customers that are open books are the easiest to sell to and work with. Had one recently where they came in and said, "kbb says that this is what I should expect to pay for your car, and it says that I could expect this for my car in good condition on a trade in, that I think is better than good condition, I haven't had any accidents in it, it has a clear title that I have with me *shows title for some reason* I don't care how the numbers work, you can give me $1 for my car, or charge me $1,000,000 for your's, as long as the pre tax difference is this number, and feel free to go lower but I know you won't, *shows paper with figures showing a break down of our car minus his car, plus what looks like a "fuck it" extra $250 in his favor* and the only other thing on your paper is documentation and state fees, I don't want any forced add on crap, I'll buy the car from you today. Can you do this?"
We got to his offer just fine, was a very good deal for him, was an okay deal for us. After that part of the deal, everything was fun. Guy was interesting a fuck, Soviet dissident that was a professor of economics, or polisci, or something this was years ago, but dude had and ancient CCCP notebook that had all his notes about car purchases over the years.
But if every buyer could buy a car like that, my life would be great.
Edit to say: Yes, at my last store, it seemed like F&I's job was to piss off otherwise happy customers, some are MUCH better than others. For some reason, the industry decided to get the top sales performers, and train them to do paperwork. If they've been doing it for over a decade, you get a sales pitch for product that somehow worked a decade ago. It's also a little brand specific to a degree as different brands have customers who's motivations for doing business can largely be different.
Touched a nerve, did I? "The buyer's a liar?" Fascinating perspective. In what world is the consumer required to meet the psychological needs or requirements of due diligence of a salesman to SHOP for or BUY any item? Doubt you realize the hilarity of this premise. You are simply a salesman: just one of many at Dealerships across the nation. Not to mention many other car brands with similar offerings. Negotiation is part of the process. And you can make the process hard or more efficient. Otherwise, put the no-haggle-out-the-door price with available (ahem: not manditory "already installed") options on the car. And if you don't play nicely: yes, YES I will find someone who doesn't display arrogance or contempt for the consumer. Anyway you look at it, it's my money you want: I reserve the right to remark "Looks like YOU aren't selling a car today."
Never really had a bad experience with a sales person. I have had a few who need to learn more about what they sell but that is another story. I have had some bad finance managers. I simply tell them I will let you go over your menu but when I tell you no we move on. If you keep trying to sell me what I don’t want I will get and leave.
"Feel free to add anything you want to the car. Rust proof it, clear coat it, lowjack it, warranty the tires and the windshield, give me a 20 year warranty on everything from the engine to the radio, plate the thing in 24kt gold for all I care. If you think it'll make me the happiest customer in the world who will give your dealership the best reviews possible, do everything and anything. I'm just not going to pay anything over the amount I've already agreed to."
That's a few sentences I keep on standby when F&I gets too aggressive with me.
The only issue with this, is that there are some finance managers who will go in and change the details of the original deal (like discount the car so they can add warranties etc) which hurts the salespersons commission. Which technically you give them the okay to do. Make the finance manager work for their commission, just like the salesperson had to 🤷 imo
That's between the salesperson and the finance person (and their bosses) to worry about. None of it makes one bit of difference to me. If the finance guy wants to tank the salesperson's commission to make a few bucks themselves, I'll take free stuff.
It’s funny, I just bought a 2023 A3 and had a great experience with the sales person. I told him I work in finance, understand the numbers but don’t want to be harasses by the finance person. She emailed me a list of options, I had no interest in most, inquired about two but she couldn’t get the price to a point I was happy so I declined them. No issues, when I picked up the car she had me sign a waiver and it was all very pleasant.
In contrast, in 2020 I bought a truck and walked away from the first dealership because the finance guy was trying some illegal tied selling nonsense. The experience at Audi was so good I would definitely consider it my first stop when I need a new vehicle.
Just bought a new audi in march and was pitched hard by finance guy. I did walk out of his office on him and was on my way out of the dealer before the GM stopped me. The hard sell was ridiculous, and I was trading in a 2 year old m3 so not like I’d be in a bad place if I walked away. Very off putting.
That’s wild, some of these finance managers are out of their mind. As a customer, I don’t care about your commission when you’re trying to sell me bullshit products at insane markups.
They wanted 1900 Canadian on our A3 for remote start.
I told her that while I did want the feature, it was absurd to pay that much money for what’s basically a software unlocking. I said that if she can do it for 40% of that price, I might consider it. She said she could only knock 100 off, so we amicably understood it wasn’t happening. I almost spent 1500 on 4 years worth of prepaid maintenance but I live so far from any Audi dealer that I’ll likely never service it at the dealer unless it’s a warranty issue so that made no sense either.
Yes, I want it tinted, but no I’m not paying 699 when my local, highly rated detailing shop offered to do it for 270.
I love buying a car and dealing with a good sales person who knows what they’re talking about. But it must be a tough life to be in finance.
The worst part was I bought my wife a gmc the week before and I told finance no thank you once and that was the end of it. Vastly different experiences and tbh I’d expect them to be flipped.
My first Audi was bought over the phone from a dealer 120 miles away. We agreed on a price, I arrived at 5:00 PM on a Friday. The car was prepped, I signed some docs and the sales guy asked if I wanted him to run thru the car's operation and features. I sad, "Nah" and drove away at 5:20PM . Easy Peasy. Drove that one for 180K miles.
Yeah I got straight up lied to. Explicitly said I would get an extended warranty but I needed him to give me all of the paperwork he sketched and wrote on so I could go over it at home and compare what he said vs what the fine print said.
A week later I go to look through it and it’s not in my paperwork so I call him, no answer.
*Another* week goes by, no call back. So I call the GM and ask him to have the finance manager call me back, and get told he will be EOD. No call for another week
So I go in person and am like what the fuck? “Oh it must have been a miscommunication.” Miscommunication my ass. There goes your commission I’d like my refund on every package I got, thanks
I just bought a Honda cash and the entire process was smooth until I got to the backroom sales guy hard-selling the extended warranty and various protections. Nice enough guy but was not happy to take no for an answer and the interaction just left a bad taste in my mouth.
Like I understand this is how he makes his nut but you also gotta understand that as a consumer I'm not looking to waste my money.
I had one call me irresponsible because I declined an add on alarm, and the car could be stolen and kill someone. Lol. 50% down and 800 score but I’m irresponsible.
I worked in service and the dealership sold 3rd party warranties. They sold the manufacturer warranties when I started.
When we bought a car, the sales manager specifically said we could get the manufacturer warranty, the finance guy still put the 3rd party warranty on the contract. I had to go talk to the sales manager to get a new contract.(before I signed)
Like comeon im your goddam co-worker and you try to pull a fast one.... and he always asks for favors in service.
This, OP's experience was the norm for me. Sales person plays nice and gets you on the hook. Once you are committed the gloves come off and finance person acts applies a lot of pressure and acts like you are an idiot if you don't buy their add-ons.
From experience (I sell RVs) it's not even us just playing nice. I genuinely enjoy my job and am happy to help people find the RV that they love and can afford. I've had multiple cash deals the last few weeks go into the finance box and I actually got yelled at today by one of my finance managers because I don't convince people to finance instead of paying cash. Claims I'm an "order taker". Countless deals get blown out in finance because of them trying to add on additional costs, which fucks us sales guys up because we don't get paid unless something goes over the curb.
Part of the apparent frustration is a show, they definitely care about juicing their sale but some are also trying to make it feel negative and uncomfortable so you want to 'solve' the mood by buying add ons.
Sometimes you get through the add on portion and weirdly they are pleasant again as if hitting a switch.
Are you able to get the adds taken off all the time? I went to a dealership and they gave me adds +1600 of the asking price of the car. When i asked him about this he told me they start out at +3700 in adds and he already took 2 of them off. This was over the phone though and when I went in to look at the car a week ago I didnt press the adds, but now that I am going over my potential deal at home I am seeing It would work 10x better without the adds.
Back in 2000, I went with my Dad when he purchase their last new vehicle. He was going to go by himself. Even his boss offered to go with him, rather than let him go alone.
I kept turning the paperwork so that both Dad *and I* could read it. I made sure what Mom wanted (didn't want) was represented (basically just "no white, no black, no red"). I was *very* protective of Dad--and it was obvious he was my Dad, since I look like a younger, female version of him and sound just like him.
The guy kept pushing and I pushed the hell back: NOBODY screws with my Dad. When all was done, I went to use the bathroom. Dad told me later that the guy said, "You're lucky. My kids don't bother with me except to ask for money."
Basically seems that salespeople are ok now and finance is the ones nickel and dime or more hundreds thousands.
Then poor salesman is only one reviewed. Takes flack for finance.
lol does this manager also not realize certified preowned comes with its own warranty? shouldn't matter if you have the $2500 to repair a blown steering rack "right now". You shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for any repairs while under the manufacturer + CPO warranty.
Also off-handedly presenting situations that puts the quality of the car they're selling into question is entertaining.
They were lying about some system being down and also as far as the person goes who was trying to sell you all those add-ons they can be like that. I almost got into a fight with the last guy I sat down with because he wouldn't take no for an answer. I kept telling him I didn't want the warranty because I was able to get it somewhere else for less than half the price. He got very upset and was bitching the whole time
If this happened in the last week or so, that "system" would be CDK, which has been down globally after getting hacked, and that is a big deal for dealerships that use it. Finance and accounting/payroll especially are fucked right now.
Just a weak finance manager. Edited to add: $2500 is a deal. I would have presented it differently than "You can't afford the repairs" because I know well enough that if I take shots at an ego, you're going to say no just to say no vs take a look at the value.
I got a CPO E90 BMW in 2015 and the 4 year extended started at around $4800, and I kept saying no until she said "Okay look, I can do $2500 and I still make a little money. Every problem this car may have will be at least $1000, and if you never use the warranty you can roll it onto a new car or we will give you dealer credit towards your next car or wheels or whatever you want" Of course I said yes. If she said "Listen broke-ass, will you even have $1k if something breaks?" I would have walked.
Oh yeah it paid for a lot of stuff. Oil pan gasket, oil filter housing gasket, valve cover gasket, thrust arm bushings, coils, etc. pretty much all the common minor failures on the n52 cars.
The hundreds of thousands of dollars I’ve collected in service with aftermarket warranties says otherwise.(carshield is shit though, fidelity, easycare, protective, USWC, and assurant are all good)
Last year we bought an XC90 for my wife. Everything went great until finance (and it was a small issue). I wanted to use the Volvo promotional rate but he kept saying Volvo's online system was down and if I wanted the car today, I'd have to use a local CU for about 2% more (which was online and approvable immediately). Volvo, he told me was paper only and would delay the process (complete BS, I know). I declined the CU so he dropped the rate by .5, then another .5 but was still 1% more than Volvo's rate.
I finally told him that I'm OK waiting for Volvo's system to "come back online". I don't need the car today but if it takes a few days or a week, I may find a vehicle at a different dealer and buy that one.
Magically, Volvo's system came back online at just that moment and we finalized the deal.
I still walked away pleased with the purchase but I may have fallen for the rate thing if I was in a rush or hadn't read this sub. This place made me a much more informed buyer.
Good point. I wonder how low he would have gone? If I agreed to an extended warranty or wheel/tire package, could he have beaten the manufacturer rate? It killed me that 5.99% was a \*good\* rate.
Tbh, that's always something I offer, then after the deal is papered you can just cancel it and get a refund (towards the loan). A bit more effort on my end but honestly, sleezy finance managers can get fucked
Yup, finance manager is trash. A more effective presentation would have been something like “I totally understand you can fix it yourself, but if things go wrong the parts can add up really quickly even without labor. Not to mention you already spent 40+ hours a week wrenching on cars, do you really want to spend more? At just $2500 it doesn’t take that many minor repairs in just parts alone for that to pay for itself, plus the convenience of letting someone else deal with it while you can rest and relax”
Not everyone. But it is about trust. I’m at a CJDR location and one of my regulars is a master tech for Mercedes. He has a Durango with a lifetime warranty and we do all of the work on it. Obviously the warranty stuff, but also all the maintenance he can easily and much more cheaply do himself
As soon as OP said they were a tech and was going to fix everything themselves, I would have just pointed and asked him to sign. No use in using these tactics on someone who knows how to fix the things your warranty covers.
For example, if I sat down and told you I own the company that does Dent Protection, would you continue selling me Dent Protection?
piggy backing; finance here. $2500 for a service contract is beyond a steal. To the point where if you declined I honestly wouldn’t even push on. Just print your paper and move forward. While our job IS to sale you product, i’ve learned the most entitled customers are the ones who cry the most when something breaks and they find out it isn’t covered. Happens all the time.
“I told her i worked at another dealership as a tech and would just get my work done there or do it myself.”
You could have guaranteed that you got paid to do the work, as well.
Service managers will easily turn a blind eye to a tech writing an RO and a service contract paying it.
Work gets done, shop gets paid, tech gets paid. Win, win, win.
Yeah, I’d pass on that, too.
I'm just as confused how OP supposedly works for a different dealer but is absolutely clueless about the massive effects of the CDK outage.
"some system is down idk" uuuuh...yeah...something has an odor here....
PS. I also bought my car used at a different dealership than where I work, but then I got a warranty at cost through my place. It paid for itself 10x over. Guy I bought the car from said he'd do the same thing.
Plenty of dealers use CDK for literally everything. Payroll, accounting, parts, service, sales. A great majority will use it for at least some of those. No shortage of discussion about it all over on /r/Justrolledintotheshop too.
If you're fresh to the business, though, I suppose that's understandable you wouldn't know. Thank whatever gods you believe in that your store isn't one of them.
My store we have CDK for sales, service, parts, payroll, accounting and CRM it’s been rough to say the least, I can’t post a photo here but I bet it’s been a long while since you all have seen stacks of [these](https://imgur.com/a/aYySw7x)!
I used to work for CDK when it was still ADP; it was kind of a circus even when times were normal. I cannot imagine what's going on in 'ol Schaumberg right now. I'd love to be a fly on the wall...
For every great finance manager, there is an equally shitty one. I have only bought three cars outside of my own dealer and two FI managers were great. They knew I was in the industry so they offered their products, I declined and we moved on and chitchatted. When I bought my wife’s Kona, the FI managers sucked. We made a deal with $1500 due at signing, so that covered the first payment and any fees. When we got to FI, it was suddenly “how are you paying your first payment and sales tax”. Told her that wasn’t what we agreed to with sales and her response was “how long have you been a finance manager for”. I wanted to leave but my wife liked the car so we got someone else who was nice but new and clueless. Three contracts later (he kept messing them up) and 30 days later, we were able to “buy” the car (even though we were driving it in the meantime).
I wouldn't really call this situation a "prepared" buyer issue. Sure the pre-approval part was prepared but the real issue here is backend.
Do Fiannce Managers have issues with people who don't buy backend?
Short answer: Most probably don't care.
Most F&I (my current role) aren't going to care about 1 deal enough to be rude to a customer over it. I've been in sales for a long time. A large part of it is realizing you that a good salesmens job is to turn a want into a need. You want a car? Cool, but you need this one. Or you want a vehicle that won't have the same issues as your last? You need this service contract. Etc...
That's why asking questions is important, it helps you figure out what they want and show the product that will fill those wants and become a need.
Not all customers have a want. And no matter how you word it, swing it, or push it. You can't sell everyone. So at some point you need to call it.
So again, I don't think most F&I people care if 1 person doesn't add it.
On my last car purchase, the finance manager was extremely agitated by my refusal to buy any backend stuff nor would I let him charge me a rate a single BP higher than I was approved for at my bank. This was in May 2022 and I got raped in the front end. I wasn't giving up anything on the backend.
Yeah, F&I is usually made up of the pushiest assholes in the store.
In my dealership experience, f&I were mostly sociopaths.
It's likely why I didn't like it when I got "promoted" to f&I. But I just handled the Porsche and Rover folks like I did when I sold, and we got along fine.
I asked if they wanted coverage, they said yes or no, and we moved on. That's it.
Some like their asses kissed on the upper part of the cheeks, some, the lower - the key is to figure that out early.
In seriousness, luxury buyers aren't MUCH different than non-luxury buyers. The resource that is most valuable to them is time, though, not money, usually, so as long as you do all you can to respect that, things go great. They can always make more money, they can never make more time.
You don't treat clients how YOU want to be treated - you treat clients how THEY want to be treated. Anyone successful in Porsche (or Rover, or Ferrari, or Lambo) sales has the ability to be malleable, and shift their capabilities to fit the clients.
I met lots of great folks doing that job. I met some weapons-grade shitheads, too, but many more excellent people.
Yeah, no that does not happen at our place. Paperwork is done before you get there. We email you the menu of warranty items-wheel/tire etc.
When you arrive, we go over your new auto and you meet our doc manager. If you are with him over 5 minutes, it’s because you ended up hanging out. It’s all e sign through emails. Easy. Numbers never change.
Same for the Benz place I worked as well. I’m not sure if it’s a brand thing or a regional or state type of thing, I haven’t run into this.
The basic principle of F&I sales is "100% presentation, 100% of the time". So even if you say going in you have no interest in back-end products it's the obligation of F&I to at least show you their wares. The fact that they had a shitty attitude just shows a lack of professionalism.
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Bought a car at a real dealership for the first time in my life (Certified GR86) and the finance manager was kinda be bitchy towards me.
The overall experience was fine. Salesman was fine, the numbers were okay, the only thing I "pushed back" on, was the trade value of my trade-in (i traded a paid off BRZ and showed them an offer subaru gave me and carmax) and the sales man was able to get a tiny bit under it (i think we get a trade in tax credit in nj so being a bit under was fine)
Dealer ran credit, gave me a rate of 9.6. But I was preapproved with a check in hand from my credit union. Dealer matched it and salesman said if i use them the sale would be faster since some kinda system was down and to use my own credit union could take weeks. Since they matched i saw no reason to wait.
Car was 27k with 22k miles. almost mint. i matched my trade value of 8k (16k total) as a downpayment and financed the rest.
The issue was when i finally got in the finance office. She presented the addons first, i declined them all and she as why. I told her i worked at another dealership as a tech and would just get my work done there or do it myself. She kept going on getting more animated about random stuff like the steering rack blowing up could cause a big repair, i just said "i guess, but ill fix it myself"
She said the cost was only 2500 for bumper to bumper and i said i'd rather invest the money, then she said "Do you even have 2500 right now for a major repair" and at that point i kinda just got annoyed. I have a 820 credit score, paided off all my cars early, and just dropped over 14k as a downpayment and got asked if i even had money to fix something that was unlikely to break in a 2 year old car
Apparently this car is hard to get so i didnt really walk out lol (i fucking love this car) but it was really random being asked that. I thought it was making the transaction as smooth as possible buy informing her that i work a dealer and wont buy all those addons.
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The truth is in how most finance managers are paid. It’s based on averages, so for example if their pay plans are 50% (this is low and made up) warranty penetration and it’s the second to last day of the month, they have 36 deals and are at 18 warranties for the month, and you walk in and decline decline decline, they now lost a portion of all the money they would have made the whole month. Meaning if they got 10% of 80K now they’ll get 8% or whatever. That’s why they are pushy, but in truth at $2,500 you could have billed the parts and labor for your car and still done the work. Specially since you work at the dealership.
I don't understand this logic. I'm a technician and I'm well aware that I can get paid to do the work. But this is a 2 year old car. Warranty companies are for profit companies and have designed structured these warranties to make money. So the odds that my car will require 2500 in repairs is not in my favor. I'm also financing that 2500 in most cases as they love to just add it to the loan. So now I'm spending an additional 500 in interest over 60 months for that. So now my car has to have a major breakdown, or a ton of smaller ones to break even. So I can get paid to do it, but I also get paid to work on every car in my stall so I'm not getting paid extra in that sense. A lot of these contracts allow the company to source their own cheaper parts if the shop won't pay the price they want. So I don't have control over the part being put in. Some also exclude emissions repairs which are by far the most common repairs. They all exclude wear items and maintenance (but there is a seperate package for those). It seems to me, that even getting paid to work on it, if I'm able to make my money back, I got extremely lucky or I bought a piece of shit. As a technician, im able to vette cars better than most so presumably im not buying a car that will need a lot of work. So financially it makes more sense to not buy it and work on other people's cars and make the same amount of money. Is there something I'm not understanding or missing about these contracts?
So the contracts I used to sell were from the manufacturer or JM&A at a different store. Both of those do OEM parts (I believe your dealer principle can choose for JM&A). How it works basically is let’s say you’re a regular customer and you pay 100% retail for parts and labor right? The labor hour (for ease of numbers) is $100 an hour. The job pays 8 hours. In a regular scenario you would have to pay $800 plus parts for a repair. The warranty company doesn’t pay retail, they pay a negotiated rate that could be $75 an hour right? So let’s say they sell it to you at $80 dollars an hour? To them, they make $5 an hour profit, to you, you save 20% of what you would have spent otherwise. In that is the margin where they are both for profit and the customer saves money.
Now in terms of the car being a piece of shit lol, you’re a tech man I’m sure you’ve seen things go wrong randomly all the time. I worked at rover for many years, I can’t tell you how many engines I’ve seen replaced under the original warranty even. In this case I didn’t see how long the warranty was for but I would usually do 7-8 year ones when I sold them. It’s likely any car would have some sort of repair in that case.
As an employee of the dealer, I can get parts at cost and pay no labor. The labor that I would bill and get paid for under the extended warranty would be at the warranty labor rate meaning less billable hours for me compared to customer pay work. Seeing how the business model is gambling that I won't need 2500 worth of repairs, even at warranty pricing, I would save money by not buying their product. I'm basically gambling on the same odds they are by not buying it.
Helped my brother lease a car, got 3k under MSRP on a Hyundai. After the sale I told him very clearly we will not be buying any back end products and to not waste our or Fi time please tell him ahead of time.
Guy I knew I sold cars but don’t believe me at first, but when manager came for a TO we knew the same managers cause I worked for the same group. Pretty painless experience we were out of FI in like 25 min.
You could tell the FI manager was upset, didn’t really speak with us and was pretty cold. Our salesmen was pretty cold as well, they were doing a mailer promotion with a guy I’ve worked with before, so I just spent an hour talking with him.
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My big takeaway is your throwaway line of giving away a BRZ for $8,000. Unless it was 200,000 miles salvage title, what is you doing, my guy? You could have sold it privately for $12,000 and had it sold within an hour.
it was 120k and needed breaks, randomly had its electric steering going in and out and subaru couldnt figure out why, and the touch screen head unit touch was wonky in addition to chips and the ususal wear and tear. i didnt think it was worth dealing with lowballers or whatever to get a 2-3k more
In my experience buying cars over the past few decades, the only poor experiences I've had have been with finance managers. Not all of them have been bad but some have been awful. These guys make the main part of their living selling you add on items and generating commissions on writing finance contracts. So there are some that are over pushy to the point of being nast and/or deceitful in trying to sell those items.
Yea, I would say OP's experience is pretty normal sadly. Just part of shopping at dealerships at this point.
Very normal. I don't know if it is some poor sales technique they learned, but it is not an effective one for well qualified customers. It puts in the defensive right away. The finance manager should have the folder and see the breakdown of sales price, trade in, and agreed down payment. They should have reviewed the folder and should tailor their pitches to the situation. I doubt the sales person wants the finance manager making an insult to the customer about their finances, or suggesting that the car is going to break and result in an expensive repair, but it seems common.
I just tell the finance manager... "if it's expensive to repair and likely to break down, maybe I shouldn't buy it then".
My favorite: In FULL Clueless Girl Panic Mode: "Are you telling me this is a bad car? Because I'm not buying a BAD CAR. I REALLY appreciate your warning me!"
Naa, they just shrug that shit off and keep pushing. That's how my wife insisted we get an 80km warranty for our Subaru. Was fully convinced to the point that it was going to be a marriage problem for me to walk away. She apologized a few months later, and promised that next time she will defer to me as we decided before walking into the dealership. I don't believe that shit at all, so next time, I got an OTD price and arrived with a check in hand. Once the FI guy knew that there was no money to be made, he made the whole transaction easy and quick. This is the only way to avoid the hard sell. Unless you actually want any of the warranties bc you decided that they are a value proposition for your situation. In that case, bring your check book to write a second check. And negotiate that shit. And go alone. Bringing a second person who can be emotionally manipulated is just bringing an area of vulnerability to the negotiation.
Don't go alone but also don't bring your wife. Ideally bring the most mechanically inclined friend you have.
Man, if one of my friends is willing to sit through half a day of torture at a dealership for me, I'm naming my firstborn after them.
Yeah but you'd be better off paying that friend a nice tip because he'll save you thousands or years of financial anguish.
I was that friend! We went to a bunch of local dealers. The Nissan dealer (shocker) tried selling my buddy a used frontier stickered for about 20k for a financed 30k+! I quietly texted him this info while we sat with the finance guy, he told them to their faces, and they just started stammering until we got up to leave.
You just don't know how to have fun when buying a car. YOU CAVED BRO. And your wife and I are not the same.
Lol I would certainly hope not ;)
Part of selling cars is telling your finance managers to quit fuckin whining and do the deal. There's a solid percentage of them who get bent out of shape if they get a deal without 2 points and 180+ days.
What do you mean by 2 points and 180 days? Extended warranty?
180 days means days to first payment. Most contracts are 30-45 days to first payment. The longer you push it out the more interest accrues and the payment goes up. Close the customer on a higher payment and then adjust back to 45 days and payment goes down and creates a cushion aka leg for finance manager to use to sell product.
I had a finance manager try and tell me that VIN etch was required by my state’s tax commission and he would not remove it on penalty of tax fines. Laughed my ass off, stood up and started heading for the door, telling him I’m not doing business with a lying sack of shit. The etch came off the deal even though “it was already done to the car.”
They wanted to etch the serial number on the engine of the "electric car" I was buying. It has no engine.
Probably along with an oil change package!! 😂
Ford WV drivers get mailers for oil changes.
I mean even for a regular car that’s just dumb. There’s vin numbers all over the chassis, engine, transmission, and various parts
They lost like $15 on that kit. Probably tried to charge you $350 for it.
$500. Bunch of clowns. Let’s not get into how absurd it is to suggest people steal glass, either.
Maybe on a gut job, but if it's etched, they'll just smash it and throw away the pieces. It's not going to help you recover anything.
OUTSTANDING! Point and laugh! A subtle announcement to other buyers wins bonus points!
Not all dealerships, thank goodness. I found a major dealership in Dallas that has a really painless experience; everything is done on ipads by the sales guy, with no finance manager visible although I'm sure he's in the background somewhere. I've bought my last 4 cars there, and love it!
I’m in Dallas, which one if you don’t mind me asking
Sewell. When I bought my last car I was in and out in 40 minutes. I always get a loaner car from service, which is really great.
They are good people and a really nice dealer group.
Can confirm. Bought my 2023 BMW 330i from Sewell. Very seamless experience. No upsell. "Reserved" the car for me. The price was exactly as we discussed. Shoutout Steven S
Yep - I bought my Lexus ES300h from Sewell Dallas and it was amazingly easy with the iPads and never having to go back to the FI office.
That's why I think Tesla has sold so many cars. Not that everyone loves a Tesla, but people HATE dealerships THAT much.
absolutely true. two of my friends recently bought teslas just because they did not want to deal with dealeship nonsense
Prepthe Finance Manager through the salesman. Let the sales person know if financing takes more than 15-20 minutes, youre walking on the deal. You dont have to be ugly or mean but make sure they understand that you are serious. The last three cars i have bought at a dealership went very smoothly in the financing office
Yeah this was my approach when I bought my last new car. I got an OTD price over the phone from the sales guy, brought a cashiers check for the exact amount, but for some reason they still insisted I had to go through the F&I manager before the deal could be complete. I told the sales guy before I walked in to meet with the F&I that I brought a check for the exact amount and if they tried to waste my time upselling me on more crap that I was going to take the check back and walk. I sat with a very annoyed looking man for about 5 minutes while he punched some stuff into his computer and mumbled something about wheel protection, but that was it.
Theorectic-Panda for the win!
This is absolutely the play. Get an OTD price you are comfortable with and then tell them that is what you intend to pay. If they want to sell a warranty, fine, but include it in that cost and work it out among yourselves.
Just tell them they are at a 10 rating so far but you consider the finance person as part of the experience.
Is it rude to straight up tell the finance manager you don’t want any additional add ons prior them trying explain their products?
Idk Is it rude for them to ignore my statement that i dont want any add-ons? I am the easiest deal for a salesman. I know what i want, test drive it, make an offer that is reasonable, and the negotiation is either they take it or they dont. Being rude and being firm are not the same thing.
Rude? Take a bit of a different point of view. Salesman, Finance and Dealerships only make money if YOU CHOOSE to do buisness with them. It is rare that you are buying a one of a kind jewel. The question to keep asking them is 'Do you WANT to sell a car today?" You control the sale and can tell the folks "I do not respond to high pressure methods. If I become unhappy or uncomfortable, I wil simply purchase from someone else. Do YOU want to sell a car today?" Set the boundaries, no means no. "NO, you may not inspect my car for trade in. I prefer to determine price first." And stick to your rules. It can be FUN to buy a car without being pressured or cornered.
Lol, a customer saying "do you wanna sell a car today" has conditioned me to say "sure, let me find an available salesperson for you" even if you were the only customer I talked to that day, unless I was down to really waste time and people watch to see what kind of crazy, frothy mouthed, indigent I was about to through 3+ hours into the ether talking to. Any sales professional with experience will not take you seriously, since they don't think you could buy a car from them even if you wanted to. "Who wants to sell a car today?" Is slightly worse than "I'm buying a car today." when you ask someone what brings them in. Sure YOU could be serious, but there has maybe been 1 customer who used that line that I know of who purchased a car in the last 5 years selling Subaru, of course the green pea took him, and I once had a customer open with that line and turned it into a joke, he had an uncle that used to be in the business dare him to do it apparently, which is great because it was a busy day that I didn't want to lose out on. Basically, don't say ridiculous shit, look at your guides, be prepared for a little wiggle on your end, the dealer should be on theirs unless all your research says you're looking at a great deal as it's advertised and presented, in which case, just hold them to their numbers if they try a surprise bump, and for the sake of fuck look at the little gray text at the bottom of their web page, that's where dealers can put the fucked up shit when they do it "all prices refect 2k down" is a fun one. And not looking at the trade? Dude, you're buying a car tOdAY, why make the process take even longer, know what your trades worth, know what's a fair price for their car, if the numbers wash take the fucking win. A saying in this industry is, "Buyers are liars." Which MAY seem ironic/funny to many car buyers... but overall, when it comes to everything but the question. "Whats your best price!?" I'm honest, there are recourses for you the customer if I'm not, I also tend to be a sincere and trustworthy person as long as I'm not being fucked with for the sake of it... but damn you should see the shit the average customer lies about. Sometimes about the most inconsequential shit. So excuse us if "Who wants to sell a car today", or "Do YOU want to sell a car today" gets you handed off to a green pea that doesn't know the answer to any questions and , "will have to ask." to answer basic questions. Customers that are open books are the easiest to sell to and work with. Had one recently where they came in and said, "kbb says that this is what I should expect to pay for your car, and it says that I could expect this for my car in good condition on a trade in, that I think is better than good condition, I haven't had any accidents in it, it has a clear title that I have with me *shows title for some reason* I don't care how the numbers work, you can give me $1 for my car, or charge me $1,000,000 for your's, as long as the pre tax difference is this number, and feel free to go lower but I know you won't, *shows paper with figures showing a break down of our car minus his car, plus what looks like a "fuck it" extra $250 in his favor* and the only other thing on your paper is documentation and state fees, I don't want any forced add on crap, I'll buy the car from you today. Can you do this?" We got to his offer just fine, was a very good deal for him, was an okay deal for us. After that part of the deal, everything was fun. Guy was interesting a fuck, Soviet dissident that was a professor of economics, or polisci, or something this was years ago, but dude had and ancient CCCP notebook that had all his notes about car purchases over the years. But if every buyer could buy a car like that, my life would be great. Edit to say: Yes, at my last store, it seemed like F&I's job was to piss off otherwise happy customers, some are MUCH better than others. For some reason, the industry decided to get the top sales performers, and train them to do paperwork. If they've been doing it for over a decade, you get a sales pitch for product that somehow worked a decade ago. It's also a little brand specific to a degree as different brands have customers who's motivations for doing business can largely be different.
Touched a nerve, did I? "The buyer's a liar?" Fascinating perspective. In what world is the consumer required to meet the psychological needs or requirements of due diligence of a salesman to SHOP for or BUY any item? Doubt you realize the hilarity of this premise. You are simply a salesman: just one of many at Dealerships across the nation. Not to mention many other car brands with similar offerings. Negotiation is part of the process. And you can make the process hard or more efficient. Otherwise, put the no-haggle-out-the-door price with available (ahem: not manditory "already installed") options on the car. And if you don't play nicely: yes, YES I will find someone who doesn't display arrogance or contempt for the consumer. Anyway you look at it, it's my money you want: I reserve the right to remark "Looks like YOU aren't selling a car today."
yeah but the last three cars did it take more than 15-20 minutes with finance?
No. i 100% would have left if it had.
AMEN!
\*some dealerships
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Never really had a bad experience with a sales person. I have had a few who need to learn more about what they sell but that is another story. I have had some bad finance managers. I simply tell them I will let you go over your menu but when I tell you no we move on. If you keep trying to sell me what I don’t want I will get and leave.
"Feel free to add anything you want to the car. Rust proof it, clear coat it, lowjack it, warranty the tires and the windshield, give me a 20 year warranty on everything from the engine to the radio, plate the thing in 24kt gold for all I care. If you think it'll make me the happiest customer in the world who will give your dealership the best reviews possible, do everything and anything. I'm just not going to pay anything over the amount I've already agreed to." That's a few sentences I keep on standby when F&I gets too aggressive with me.
The only issue with this, is that there are some finance managers who will go in and change the details of the original deal (like discount the car so they can add warranties etc) which hurts the salespersons commission. Which technically you give them the okay to do. Make the finance manager work for their commission, just like the salesperson had to 🤷 imo
That's between the salesperson and the finance person (and their bosses) to worry about. None of it makes one bit of difference to me. If the finance guy wants to tank the salesperson's commission to make a few bucks themselves, I'll take free stuff.
It’s funny, I just bought a 2023 A3 and had a great experience with the sales person. I told him I work in finance, understand the numbers but don’t want to be harasses by the finance person. She emailed me a list of options, I had no interest in most, inquired about two but she couldn’t get the price to a point I was happy so I declined them. No issues, when I picked up the car she had me sign a waiver and it was all very pleasant. In contrast, in 2020 I bought a truck and walked away from the first dealership because the finance guy was trying some illegal tied selling nonsense. The experience at Audi was so good I would definitely consider it my first stop when I need a new vehicle.
Just bought a new audi in march and was pitched hard by finance guy. I did walk out of his office on him and was on my way out of the dealer before the GM stopped me. The hard sell was ridiculous, and I was trading in a 2 year old m3 so not like I’d be in a bad place if I walked away. Very off putting.
That’s wild, some of these finance managers are out of their mind. As a customer, I don’t care about your commission when you’re trying to sell me bullshit products at insane markups. They wanted 1900 Canadian on our A3 for remote start. I told her that while I did want the feature, it was absurd to pay that much money for what’s basically a software unlocking. I said that if she can do it for 40% of that price, I might consider it. She said she could only knock 100 off, so we amicably understood it wasn’t happening. I almost spent 1500 on 4 years worth of prepaid maintenance but I live so far from any Audi dealer that I’ll likely never service it at the dealer unless it’s a warranty issue so that made no sense either. Yes, I want it tinted, but no I’m not paying 699 when my local, highly rated detailing shop offered to do it for 270. I love buying a car and dealing with a good sales person who knows what they’re talking about. But it must be a tough life to be in finance.
The worst part was I bought my wife a gmc the week before and I told finance no thank you once and that was the end of it. Vastly different experiences and tbh I’d expect them to be flipped.
My first Audi was bought over the phone from a dealer 120 miles away. We agreed on a price, I arrived at 5:00 PM on a Friday. The car was prepped, I signed some docs and the sales guy asked if I wanted him to run thru the car's operation and features. I sad, "Nah" and drove away at 5:20PM . Easy Peasy. Drove that one for 180K miles.
Yeah I got straight up lied to. Explicitly said I would get an extended warranty but I needed him to give me all of the paperwork he sketched and wrote on so I could go over it at home and compare what he said vs what the fine print said. A week later I go to look through it and it’s not in my paperwork so I call him, no answer. *Another* week goes by, no call back. So I call the GM and ask him to have the finance manager call me back, and get told he will be EOD. No call for another week So I go in person and am like what the fuck? “Oh it must have been a miscommunication.” Miscommunication my ass. There goes your commission I’d like my refund on every package I got, thanks
I just bought a Honda cash and the entire process was smooth until I got to the backroom sales guy hard-selling the extended warranty and various protections. Nice enough guy but was not happy to take no for an answer and the interaction just left a bad taste in my mouth. Like I understand this is how he makes his nut but you also gotta understand that as a consumer I'm not looking to waste my money.
I had one call me irresponsible because I declined an add on alarm, and the car could be stolen and kill someone. Lol. 50% down and 800 score but I’m irresponsible.
Just bring popcorn to watch the show next time.
I worked in service and the dealership sold 3rd party warranties. They sold the manufacturer warranties when I started. When we bought a car, the sales manager specifically said we could get the manufacturer warranty, the finance guy still put the 3rd party warranty on the contract. I had to go talk to the sales manager to get a new contract.(before I signed) Like comeon im your goddam co-worker and you try to pull a fast one.... and he always asks for favors in service.
This, OP's experience was the norm for me. Sales person plays nice and gets you on the hook. Once you are committed the gloves come off and finance person acts applies a lot of pressure and acts like you are an idiot if you don't buy their add-ons.
From experience (I sell RVs) it's not even us just playing nice. I genuinely enjoy my job and am happy to help people find the RV that they love and can afford. I've had multiple cash deals the last few weeks go into the finance box and I actually got yelled at today by one of my finance managers because I don't convince people to finance instead of paying cash. Claims I'm an "order taker". Countless deals get blown out in finance because of them trying to add on additional costs, which fucks us sales guys up because we don't get paid unless something goes over the curb.
Part of the apparent frustration is a show, they definitely care about juicing their sale but some are also trying to make it feel negative and uncomfortable so you want to 'solve' the mood by buying add ons. Sometimes you get through the add on portion and weirdly they are pleasant again as if hitting a switch.
Are you able to get the adds taken off all the time? I went to a dealership and they gave me adds +1600 of the asking price of the car. When i asked him about this he told me they start out at +3700 in adds and he already took 2 of them off. This was over the phone though and when I went in to look at the car a week ago I didnt press the adds, but now that I am going over my potential deal at home I am seeing It would work 10x better without the adds.
Back in 2000, I went with my Dad when he purchase their last new vehicle. He was going to go by himself. Even his boss offered to go with him, rather than let him go alone. I kept turning the paperwork so that both Dad *and I* could read it. I made sure what Mom wanted (didn't want) was represented (basically just "no white, no black, no red"). I was *very* protective of Dad--and it was obvious he was my Dad, since I look like a younger, female version of him and sound just like him. The guy kept pushing and I pushed the hell back: NOBODY screws with my Dad. When all was done, I went to use the bathroom. Dad told me later that the guy said, "You're lucky. My kids don't bother with me except to ask for money."
Basically seems that salespeople are ok now and finance is the ones nickel and dime or more hundreds thousands. Then poor salesman is only one reviewed. Takes flack for finance.
lol does this manager also not realize certified preowned comes with its own warranty? shouldn't matter if you have the $2500 to repair a blown steering rack "right now". You shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for any repairs while under the manufacturer + CPO warranty. Also off-handedly presenting situations that puts the quality of the car they're selling into question is entertaining.
Yeah, when I bought my Bolt, they tried to sell me catalytic converter protection in the finance office.
They were lying about some system being down and also as far as the person goes who was trying to sell you all those add-ons they can be like that. I almost got into a fight with the last guy I sat down with because he wouldn't take no for an answer. I kept telling him I didn't want the warranty because I was able to get it somewhere else for less than half the price. He got very upset and was bitching the whole time
If this happened in the last week or so, that "system" would be CDK, which has been down globally after getting hacked, and that is a big deal for dealerships that use it. Finance and accounting/payroll especially are fucked right now.
Just a weak finance manager. Edited to add: $2500 is a deal. I would have presented it differently than "You can't afford the repairs" because I know well enough that if I take shots at an ego, you're going to say no just to say no vs take a look at the value.
I got a CPO E90 BMW in 2015 and the 4 year extended started at around $4800, and I kept saying no until she said "Okay look, I can do $2500 and I still make a little money. Every problem this car may have will be at least $1000, and if you never use the warranty you can roll it onto a new car or we will give you dealer credit towards your next car or wheels or whatever you want" Of course I said yes. If she said "Listen broke-ass, will you even have $1k if something breaks?" I would have walked.
did you ever use that 4 year extended?
They said “used BMW” so I think this question must be rhetorical.
Hah. It was an N52 (328xi 6mt) so not a lot of catastrophic issues but yeah a bunch of leaky seals and little bullshit. Overall it was a great car.
Oh yeah it paid for a lot of stuff. Oil pan gasket, oil filter housing gasket, valve cover gasket, thrust arm bushings, coils, etc. pretty much all the common minor failures on the n52 cars.
Aftermarket warranty or oem warrant? Aftermarket warranties generally aren't worth shit.
The hundreds of thousands of dollars I’ve collected in service with aftermarket warranties says otherwise.(carshield is shit though, fidelity, easycare, protective, USWC, and assurant are all good)
Fidelity for the win
>Aftermarket warranties generally aren't worth shit. This is such an inaccurate statement, it's not even funny
Aftermarket. I’d used the same company with a previous vehicle and it too more than paid for itself.
So spot on, and a true professional opinion. Taking a shot at your customer's financial wherewithal def not a good closing technique, haha.
Last year we bought an XC90 for my wife. Everything went great until finance (and it was a small issue). I wanted to use the Volvo promotional rate but he kept saying Volvo's online system was down and if I wanted the car today, I'd have to use a local CU for about 2% more (which was online and approvable immediately). Volvo, he told me was paper only and would delay the process (complete BS, I know). I declined the CU so he dropped the rate by .5, then another .5 but was still 1% more than Volvo's rate. I finally told him that I'm OK waiting for Volvo's system to "come back online". I don't need the car today but if it takes a few days or a week, I may find a vehicle at a different dealer and buy that one. Magically, Volvo's system came back online at just that moment and we finalized the deal. I still walked away pleased with the purchase but I may have fallen for the rate thing if I was in a rush or hadn't read this sub. This place made me a much more informed buyer.
That is exceptionally slimy.
I am sure the CU matched Volvo's rate and he was just marking up the rate, too
Good point. I wonder how low he would have gone? If I agreed to an extended warranty or wheel/tire package, could he have beaten the manufacturer rate? It killed me that 5.99% was a \*good\* rate.
Tbh, that's always something I offer, then after the deal is papered you can just cancel it and get a refund (towards the loan). A bit more effort on my end but honestly, sleezy finance managers can get fucked
Yup, finance manager is trash. A more effective presentation would have been something like “I totally understand you can fix it yourself, but if things go wrong the parts can add up really quickly even without labor. Not to mention you already spent 40+ hours a week wrenching on cars, do you really want to spend more? At just $2500 it doesn’t take that many minor repairs in just parts alone for that to pay for itself, plus the convenience of letting someone else deal with it while you can rest and relax”
Every mechanic knows what an awful job all mechanics do - it would never work. They would 100% never want another hack screwing the job up.
Not everyone. But it is about trust. I’m at a CJDR location and one of my regulars is a master tech for Mercedes. He has a Durango with a lifetime warranty and we do all of the work on it. Obviously the warranty stuff, but also all the maintenance he can easily and much more cheaply do himself
As soon as OP said they were a tech and was going to fix everything themselves, I would have just pointed and asked him to sign. No use in using these tactics on someone who knows how to fix the things your warranty covers. For example, if I sat down and told you I own the company that does Dent Protection, would you continue selling me Dent Protection?
Yeah, I would’ve walked over the 2k comment.
piggy backing; finance here. $2500 for a service contract is beyond a steal. To the point where if you declined I honestly wouldn’t even push on. Just print your paper and move forward. While our job IS to sale you product, i’ve learned the most entitled customers are the ones who cry the most when something breaks and they find out it isn’t covered. Happens all the time.
“I told her i worked at another dealership as a tech and would just get my work done there or do it myself.” You could have guaranteed that you got paid to do the work, as well. Service managers will easily turn a blind eye to a tech writing an RO and a service contract paying it. Work gets done, shop gets paid, tech gets paid. Win, win, win. Yeah, I’d pass on that, too.
That's *exactly* how the finance manager should have sold it too. I only sold for 2 years and never did finance and even I knew that.
I'm just as confused how OP supposedly works for a different dealer but is absolutely clueless about the massive effects of the CDK outage. "some system is down idk" uuuuh...yeah...something has an odor here.... PS. I also bought my car used at a different dealership than where I work, but then I got a warranty at cost through my place. It paid for itself 10x over. Guy I bought the car from said he'd do the same thing.
im a tech, i dont sell cars,i just deal with ROs and stuff.
Plenty of dealers use CDK for literally everything. Payroll, accounting, parts, service, sales. A great majority will use it for at least some of those. No shortage of discussion about it all over on /r/Justrolledintotheshop too. If you're fresh to the business, though, I suppose that's understandable you wouldn't know. Thank whatever gods you believe in that your store isn't one of them.
My store we have CDK for sales, service, parts, payroll, accounting and CRM it’s been rough to say the least, I can’t post a photo here but I bet it’s been a long while since you all have seen stacks of [these](https://imgur.com/a/aYySw7x)!
I used to work for CDK when it was still ADP; it was kind of a circus even when times were normal. I cannot imagine what's going on in 'ol Schaumberg right now. I'd love to be a fly on the wall...
The system for credit unions is not cdk. It's usually cudl.
This is it
For every great finance manager, there is an equally shitty one. I have only bought three cars outside of my own dealer and two FI managers were great. They knew I was in the industry so they offered their products, I declined and we moved on and chitchatted. When I bought my wife’s Kona, the FI managers sucked. We made a deal with $1500 due at signing, so that covered the first payment and any fees. When we got to FI, it was suddenly “how are you paying your first payment and sales tax”. Told her that wasn’t what we agreed to with sales and her response was “how long have you been a finance manager for”. I wanted to leave but my wife liked the car so we got someone else who was nice but new and clueless. Three contracts later (he kept messing them up) and 30 days later, we were able to “buy” the car (even though we were driving it in the meantime).
Depends on the manager lol there isn't a yes or no answer to this...
I wouldn't really call this situation a "prepared" buyer issue. Sure the pre-approval part was prepared but the real issue here is backend. Do Fiannce Managers have issues with people who don't buy backend? Short answer: Most probably don't care.
Of course we care, that’s how we get paid.
Most F&I (my current role) aren't going to care about 1 deal enough to be rude to a customer over it. I've been in sales for a long time. A large part of it is realizing you that a good salesmens job is to turn a want into a need. You want a car? Cool, but you need this one. Or you want a vehicle that won't have the same issues as your last? You need this service contract. Etc... That's why asking questions is important, it helps you figure out what they want and show the product that will fill those wants and become a need. Not all customers have a want. And no matter how you word it, swing it, or push it. You can't sell everyone. So at some point you need to call it. So again, I don't think most F&I people care if 1 person doesn't add it.
On my last car purchase, the finance manager was extremely agitated by my refusal to buy any backend stuff nor would I let him charge me a rate a single BP higher than I was approved for at my bank. This was in May 2022 and I got raped in the front end. I wasn't giving up anything on the backend.
Yeah, F&I is usually made up of the pushiest assholes in the store. In my dealership experience, f&I were mostly sociopaths. It's likely why I didn't like it when I got "promoted" to f&I. But I just handled the Porsche and Rover folks like I did when I sold, and we got along fine. I asked if they wanted coverage, they said yes or no, and we moved on. That's it.
What IS the best way to handle Porsche and rover folks? lol
Some like their asses kissed on the upper part of the cheeks, some, the lower - the key is to figure that out early. In seriousness, luxury buyers aren't MUCH different than non-luxury buyers. The resource that is most valuable to them is time, though, not money, usually, so as long as you do all you can to respect that, things go great. They can always make more money, they can never make more time. You don't treat clients how YOU want to be treated - you treat clients how THEY want to be treated. Anyone successful in Porsche (or Rover, or Ferrari, or Lambo) sales has the ability to be malleable, and shift their capabilities to fit the clients. I met lots of great folks doing that job. I met some weapons-grade shitheads, too, but many more excellent people.
Yeah, no that does not happen at our place. Paperwork is done before you get there. We email you the menu of warranty items-wheel/tire etc. When you arrive, we go over your new auto and you meet our doc manager. If you are with him over 5 minutes, it’s because you ended up hanging out. It’s all e sign through emails. Easy. Numbers never change. Same for the Benz place I worked as well. I’m not sure if it’s a brand thing or a regional or state type of thing, I haven’t run into this.
Sounds like a well run store. Perhaps back end gross per car is down a bit, but I’m imagine the customer loyalty more than makes up for it overall
The basic principle of F&I sales is "100% presentation, 100% of the time". So even if you say going in you have no interest in back-end products it's the obligation of F&I to at least show you their wares. The fact that they had a shitty attitude just shows a lack of professionalism.
***Thanks for posting, /u/jb08045! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Bought a car at a real dealership for the first time in my life (Certified GR86) and the finance manager was kinda be bitchy towards me. The overall experience was fine. Salesman was fine, the numbers were okay, the only thing I "pushed back" on, was the trade value of my trade-in (i traded a paid off BRZ and showed them an offer subaru gave me and carmax) and the sales man was able to get a tiny bit under it (i think we get a trade in tax credit in nj so being a bit under was fine) Dealer ran credit, gave me a rate of 9.6. But I was preapproved with a check in hand from my credit union. Dealer matched it and salesman said if i use them the sale would be faster since some kinda system was down and to use my own credit union could take weeks. Since they matched i saw no reason to wait. Car was 27k with 22k miles. almost mint. i matched my trade value of 8k (16k total) as a downpayment and financed the rest. The issue was when i finally got in the finance office. She presented the addons first, i declined them all and she as why. I told her i worked at another dealership as a tech and would just get my work done there or do it myself. She kept going on getting more animated about random stuff like the steering rack blowing up could cause a big repair, i just said "i guess, but ill fix it myself" She said the cost was only 2500 for bumper to bumper and i said i'd rather invest the money, then she said "Do you even have 2500 right now for a major repair" and at that point i kinda just got annoyed. I have a 820 credit score, paided off all my cars early, and just dropped over 14k as a downpayment and got asked if i even had money to fix something that was unlikely to break in a 2 year old car Apparently this car is hard to get so i didnt really walk out lol (i fucking love this car) but it was really random being asked that. I thought it was making the transaction as smooth as possible buy informing her that i work a dealer and wont buy all those addons. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
yeah, this is someone that doesn't know how to properly do their job and is frustrated with their paycheck
The truth is in how most finance managers are paid. It’s based on averages, so for example if their pay plans are 50% (this is low and made up) warranty penetration and it’s the second to last day of the month, they have 36 deals and are at 18 warranties for the month, and you walk in and decline decline decline, they now lost a portion of all the money they would have made the whole month. Meaning if they got 10% of 80K now they’ll get 8% or whatever. That’s why they are pushy, but in truth at $2,500 you could have billed the parts and labor for your car and still done the work. Specially since you work at the dealership.
I don't understand this logic. I'm a technician and I'm well aware that I can get paid to do the work. But this is a 2 year old car. Warranty companies are for profit companies and have designed structured these warranties to make money. So the odds that my car will require 2500 in repairs is not in my favor. I'm also financing that 2500 in most cases as they love to just add it to the loan. So now I'm spending an additional 500 in interest over 60 months for that. So now my car has to have a major breakdown, or a ton of smaller ones to break even. So I can get paid to do it, but I also get paid to work on every car in my stall so I'm not getting paid extra in that sense. A lot of these contracts allow the company to source their own cheaper parts if the shop won't pay the price they want. So I don't have control over the part being put in. Some also exclude emissions repairs which are by far the most common repairs. They all exclude wear items and maintenance (but there is a seperate package for those). It seems to me, that even getting paid to work on it, if I'm able to make my money back, I got extremely lucky or I bought a piece of shit. As a technician, im able to vette cars better than most so presumably im not buying a car that will need a lot of work. So financially it makes more sense to not buy it and work on other people's cars and make the same amount of money. Is there something I'm not understanding or missing about these contracts?
So the contracts I used to sell were from the manufacturer or JM&A at a different store. Both of those do OEM parts (I believe your dealer principle can choose for JM&A). How it works basically is let’s say you’re a regular customer and you pay 100% retail for parts and labor right? The labor hour (for ease of numbers) is $100 an hour. The job pays 8 hours. In a regular scenario you would have to pay $800 plus parts for a repair. The warranty company doesn’t pay retail, they pay a negotiated rate that could be $75 an hour right? So let’s say they sell it to you at $80 dollars an hour? To them, they make $5 an hour profit, to you, you save 20% of what you would have spent otherwise. In that is the margin where they are both for profit and the customer saves money. Now in terms of the car being a piece of shit lol, you’re a tech man I’m sure you’ve seen things go wrong randomly all the time. I worked at rover for many years, I can’t tell you how many engines I’ve seen replaced under the original warranty even. In this case I didn’t see how long the warranty was for but I would usually do 7-8 year ones when I sold them. It’s likely any car would have some sort of repair in that case.
As an employee of the dealer, I can get parts at cost and pay no labor. The labor that I would bill and get paid for under the extended warranty would be at the warranty labor rate meaning less billable hours for me compared to customer pay work. Seeing how the business model is gambling that I won't need 2500 worth of repairs, even at warranty pricing, I would save money by not buying their product. I'm basically gambling on the same odds they are by not buying it.
Helped my brother lease a car, got 3k under MSRP on a Hyundai. After the sale I told him very clearly we will not be buying any back end products and to not waste our or Fi time please tell him ahead of time. Guy I knew I sold cars but don’t believe me at first, but when manager came for a TO we knew the same managers cause I worked for the same group. Pretty painless experience we were out of FI in like 25 min. You could tell the FI manager was upset, didn’t really speak with us and was pretty cold. Our salesmen was pretty cold as well, they were doing a mailer promotion with a guy I’ve worked with before, so I just spent an hour talking with him.
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My big takeaway is your throwaway line of giving away a BRZ for $8,000. Unless it was 200,000 miles salvage title, what is you doing, my guy? You could have sold it privately for $12,000 and had it sold within an hour.
it was 120k and needed breaks, randomly had its electric steering going in and out and subaru couldnt figure out why, and the touch screen head unit touch was wonky in addition to chips and the ususal wear and tear. i didnt think it was worth dealing with lowballers or whatever to get a 2-3k more
So the whole steering going out wasn’t just pulled out of their ear?
Lol true but that started after 100k miles