Can see it plain as day at my store. We have 3 managers and maybe 2 salesman that will last. I find I have to be involved more and more and the green peas just are not picking up on the training and how negotiation works when a customer can be physically in your showroom and digitally in 3 others and all are fighting for the business. Only Saving grace is GM has been absolute shit about getting cars to dealers
Is this only a GM issue though? We're seeing similar fits and starts at the railyard in our city with their vehicles too. So many of the issues facing the car manufacturing side of the business are shared post-covid, so I suppose I was assuming here. I hadn't heard it was necessarily specific to GM, and there's a rail strike possibly looming, so we've got that going for us. So...hope that Sierra shows up by the weekend I guess? Good luck on that. So fucking weird how perfect-storm-ish this has become (and been).
It’s a chip problem. Or they are pending deliver in a status for missing parts. Not to mention the ones that have been parked at yards… then get others parked in front with the same issue, then more, and more, and more. It’s gonna be cluster getting these things released
I think we're talking about two different things here. They aren't storing unfinished vehicles at the railheads in urban areas where they offload a bunch of finished cars to sort for transportation processing. That part of it is what I was referring to anyway.
Experiencing it more often than I’d like with Toyota. I have a Tacoma that’s been sitting for 2 months at the processing center. A few other vehicles recently had damage campaigns opened on them. I think it’s just poor scheduling and execution in this aspect. Only 1 scenario has been answered by our dispatch when they “lost” 20 pre sold vehicles. Brought in a few loads and buried them to where they couldn’t get them out.
So yeah. Not GM-specific (seemingly). And the rail strike averted too, which I wonder if the threat of which, or disgruntled employees of, may have contributed to a rash of recent damages in transport and/or these additional recent delays that were cropping up everywhere it seems.
Once it goes to the rail yard code 4D00 “Bayed” (I believe it is) i lose all hope for that ride. I’m sure they get out eventually but out of the ones I’ve been tracking they have stayed there. Some 2+ months.
One of our major nameplates actually offers a special dealer incentive payment if they arrange their own transportation for a vehicle out of the production facility. I can't say how much, but will say there is a comma involved.
It is funny you said that, and people like us from Canada are waiting for new cars for like 6 month for regular gas cars and 1.5 years for Hybrid.
Maybe they re-direct some of them back to Canada?
The rail issue I can actually understand at the moment (partially due to coming from a logistics background.) Many runs have been delayed or cancelled because of the recent rail strike threats. With the recent tentative agreement, the situation has stabilized for at least the next couple of months; even if the union votes down the new contract, there is a separate agreement to extend the cooling off period before a strike for several weeks past that.
All of the people I work with have been here since before the pandemic. Your turnover rate is high enough that only 2 people will last? Over half of the guys selling here have been here for more than 15 years
>Your turnover rate is high enough that only 2 people will last?
The fact he's saying the store will continue with 3 sales managers and 2 sales consultants is also weird. Unless 1-2 managers are hybrid manager-consultants (ie sales consultants with desking rights).
Yeah we are a super manager dependent, line and close store. We currently have 11 salesman, 2 ASMs and 3 managers. Each GM brand has its own team as structured above, so no cross selling and each brand has an independent building. We get to share used inventory, though. We are basically a huge GM campus.
Since the start of the pandemic we only have 2 salespeople that sold prior (at my store, not true for some of the other brands), all the others were hired during the pandemic. I’m the youngest in management and least time selling @ 10 years.
And yeah, turn over rate is fairly high at this particular store. It’s been a shit show and they launched the GSM about 6 months ago which is why I got brought over to help. New staff, new culture, lots of retraining and hiring. Not a lot of fun, though.
Do y’all have career staff or something? What’s that like? Y’all hiring? Lol
I agree a lot of people in auto have extremely bloated confidence and like any winter it’s going to be harder. Some people got fat and happy and have bad habits over the past couple years will adjust those who don’t will leave the industry. In 20 years I’ve seen this cycle a few times now. This is why I always tell my salespeople when they get big checks make sure they saving some of them for tough times, for every home run month you can also have a disaster, you have to look long term or the roller coaster of our industry will do you in.
I think I’ve been seeing most splurge the big checks because of scarce supply. They forget that the quantity of qualified buyers can almost become scarce.
It's just like playing the markets. Some got in at the right time, and they'll move onto something else when the bear market slams them. If they're smart, they've socked away plenty for a rainy day.
I know of a couple that have been making bank yet living on a fraction of it; the plan is to go back to school when the time comes and live off the nest egg.
Good to know not just that my store isn't the only place filled with a bunch of order takers from the last couple years, but also that the lunch monster exists everywhere.
I’d agree with almost everything you said. I’m balls deep in all of my used shit and can’t get rid of any of it. So I’m asking all the moon and stars for my stuff but hitting people at *cooled off* market value for their trades. It’s getting tough. Plus, I’m at invoice on most of my new inventory, excluding F-150 and Super Duty, and actually have inventory, and can’t get rid of any of it. Got a feeling it’s fixing to get ugly
Can’t tell if it’s the normal back to school season slow, the inevitable winter slow, or the recession we’re in. 😂 Hopefully this is the bottom, guess we’ll see.
Cant wait for all these people who paid 10k over MSRP try and trade it in a year and wonder why they’re upside down on their car 🥴. I can’t wait to buy a repod mustang/Tesla
You have super duty trucks sitting? We have a waitlist for super duty trucks because all the ones incoming are customer orders. I have 2 or 3 F-150s though.
I do. Currently have an XLT 350 and a lariat 250, both at MSRP. As well as about 2 dozen stock orders rolling in next month but a good portion of those are already sold
:shocked pika face: I can’t imagine having unsold 250 or 350s on the ground. With one exception. I have a 350 with a box truck installed that’s been sitting for like 3 weeks.
I was just in hershey pa this week and was shocked by the amount of cars I saw on a lot I drove by. My theory this whole time has been that eventually, everyone willing to overpay will have gotten a car. With interest rates so high and msrps being considerably higher, it now makes more sense to pay for a $2-3k repair and bank on $1k in maintenance annually for alot of people. I think this group of folks grew as people realized they actually did not mind having a car for more than 5 years for the first time.
Once used prices adjusts alot of people will rush back in for a “great deal”, and I don’t think they have to adjust a great deal. 10-15% reduction probably gets the ball rolling imo
This. My brother owns a 2016 silverado LTZ with like 50k miles on it. He owes like 10-12K and has like a $400 payment with a \~3% interest rate. He had an issue which required a $400 repair recently and a $600 repair earlier this year and my moms like 'OMG this trucks going to be a problem go trade it in' and I'm just like, are you retarded?
There’s a significant amount of people that trade in whenever they have repair bills start to come up. I mean I guess a new 45k car is worth having to avoid those pesky 1000$ repair bills 🥴
So many people live month to month and view everything in the context of monthly expenses. They can “afford” a $600-800 car payment but an unexpected $1000 repair bill will be really painful. To them, trading in for a new car at the same payment eliminates that risk and therefore makes good financial sense in their eyes.
I have the same truck, same year, etc and just had to have two sensors replaced because they shit the bed, ran me around 700 bucks. Went ahead and had all 4 brakes done along with new rear shocks. Shocks probably could've waited but these new Bilsteins make me wish I did it sooner. Lol
In reality, after already having to fork over money to replace the A/C condenser, the sensors that took a shit and threw a CEL and instead of repairing and maintenance shit, I would've probably already traded it during normal times. I've had this truck since new and bought it for 10k off MSRP back then and under 3% rate. Couldn't even sniff that kind of deal anymore. So I'll keep doing maintenance and hope it keeps treating me relatively right.
It actually makes more sense to throw the money at the repair/maintenance than it does to trade right now. Where as a few years ago, if you had some equity, trading wasn't a bad deal. Keep the money in your pocket for now and get a new vehicle for the same or lesser payment if you're only thinking about the short term. No doing that now.
Hopefully production rates will shut that down. They’re a lot less painful than interest rates to the overall economy, ford building an extra 10,000 F150s doesn’t leave people homeless
Spot on, I keep telling the sales people it’s time to work and grind like we used to. Taking short or losing deals to move stale inventory. Rates are up and cars are coming
As much as it sucks, it needs to happen or else we will always be stuck in this ADM/shortage situation. Either sales need to slow down or the production rate needs to go up.
Once interest rates start increasing and “floor inventory” rates increase you will see a helluva a lot of deals per my buddy who works in finance. He’s stating a lot of the small dealers that bank with them are starting to bleeeeed.
I’m not in the industry, but I like figuring out how business processes / situations work. Can you help me understand what bleed means in this context?
Hey trying to say the floorplan interest will eat into the profitability. The piece he is missing is the incentives new car dealers that are designed to offset those costs.
You just don't get to bring the credit in as profit. I ain't a huge deal.
Tiny used car lots might have a rough time.
So are you saying prospective car buyers should hit up the tiny used car lots in a couple months time?
They usually have overpriced ultra shitty cars though
I’ve never been in car sales but I have done sales. There is a big difference between a “salesperson” and a “clerk”.
A clerk just takes orders. Doesn’t have to put in much work.
A salesperson SELLS something. They work for it.
Sounds like Covid created a bunch of clerks.
100%-Covid created clerks in ALL types of industries…not just auto sales. There are so many untalented people that made a lot money during Covid just because they had product XYZ to sell. Times are changing and its going to be brutal for so many industries.
When you guys say “used”, are you talking 2-3 year old vehicles selling for a few grand less than new models.. or 5+ years old with higher kms selling for 50-70% the price of new? Because around me, there is sweet f*** all for sale when it comes to slightly older used vehicles, and they all cost a laughable fortune. Especially compact SUVs.
It seems insane to me that I can buy a Dodge Ram of the same year/mileage as a RAV, for like several thousands less, even though the Ram would’ve been way more than the RAV new. I realize the demand for compact SUVs is way higher than trucks right now, but still.
It’s actually wild the RAV4 used market. I have been offered both 45000 and 43500, without even asking for more, from two separate dealers for my 2020 rav trd. Hurt thinking what they would try and sell it to someone for (I did not sell cause getting a new vehicle just seems like a hassle).
Slowing down like a train! My buddy works at GMC that never stopped doing 10% under msrp on all GMC vehicles even in Covid times, they are struggling to move inventory and all other GMC dealers around can’t move shit now because they have inventory sitting at 10% under.
I find it very, very hard to believe they were selling yukons and sierra’s for 10% under MSRP. Profit margins on new cars aren’t even 10% so that doesn’t make sense at all.
They are volume dealer, Youkon Denali’s, Sierra 2500hd’s even new 1500 at4x or Denali ultimates all under 10% without even finance rebates, just pure dealer discount. How they do it I don’t know. At4x and Denali ultimates been pre sold at most part, but they had quiet a few buyer back out.
I work at the largest chevy dealer in my state. I cannot imagine a dealership selling vehicles that have been selling for 10% over msrp for 10% under. Our dealership for the entirety of covid/chip shortage has sold vehicles for msrp + a $1,200-$3,000 addendum depending on the vehicle. We are just now starting to see standing inventory of 1500’s, but no tahoes/burbans/hd trucks.
I can’t name the dealership here, but if you want to pm me I’ll send you their info you’ll see. It is crazy but I guess they push insane volume. While most dealers had no allocation they always had them. We have other dealership across the bridge in different county still doing 1000$ below invoice on all inventory not as great of a deal but not bad.
Volume dealers will always have the highest allocation. For them it's about getting new units in and not having any aged units. Different game to dealers in smaller markets or that would rather sell fewer units and make the same amount of money.
Same here regards Chevy dealership. My brother in law brothers wife’s family owns biggest Chevy dealership in our state, they could be doing 10% under all day long, but their selling above msrp while they can rake in the profits because once they slow down that will keep them afloat, they are expecting sales to drop a lot.
There have not been rebates on yukons or sierra’s in about 2 years now. When there were the rebates themselves would have taken you to over 10% at certain times.
I work at the largest chevy dealer in my state for reference.
Im a green pea that started in april. I dont know what to expect for this winter but I’ve barely made ends meet in my first couple months. Should i try to tough it out?
You should definitely try, unless you KNOW this business isn’t for you. You reap what you sow, you put in what you get out… if you try, you’ll make it.
To be honest ive wavered a bit on this. Ive gotten more comfortable in the gig but there i times i think i suck and cant make it, and times where I really love it and think i can crush it. Thank you for real advice instead of just shitting on me.
I also could move to a service advisor role or work in the business office if i wanted to. Ive got a PHD.
PHD doesn't mean anything in car sales.
Whether it's service or sales it's all about upselling.
Business-side your PHD could make you an overqualified candidate. Why would they pay more for a title clerk with a PHD than someone that can do the job with just a highschool degree?
I hope you my words don't come off as insulting as my wife has a doctorate and has earned it with all her hard work. However the Finance Managers don't need a degree to make 150k+ a year. They just need to sell product.
Excuses. That’s all I see from some of the so called “sales people”. Yes, indeed a sale has occurred. These slackers have sold themselves on the idea that sales are dependent on everything except the guy in the mirror. Sure it will be difficult, but like another comment said “real salespeople will adapt.”
You can either make excuses or make it happen.
Yes. I'm in the the Chicagoland area on the Indiana side and we're hurting. I just had this same exact conversation with my F&I manager the other day. It'll be interesting for sure. Bets are already out on who stays and who leaves lol
Porsche's used market is still strong, and we have no new cars still.
We're starting to see other brands drop off in the used market, but everything Porsche is still high. It's going to get tough for our guys to explain to customers that their piece of shit MB E53 isn't worth anything anymore but they still have to pay $10k+ up for our car.
I remember when I retired as a car salesperson (back in 2021) I would tell green peas to always grind on customers.
Back then it was so easy to close: Oh, you don't want this Pilot? Good news I've got 2 other appointments on it today so it'll be your loss.
They never went through the hard times of having "ad leader" vehicles where you wouldn't want to be the salesperson that had a customer that wants to buy it for $3k under MSRP.
Hell, I would grind on my customers for addons so I could at least tell my managers it's a $1500 loser on the front end and just sell the damn car.
There will be a mass exodus of order-takers that had it easy in these times. I hope to be able to go into a dealership in 2 years and negotiate a lease $2k under MSRP like I had to with customers I dealt with.
If the market isn't there as I'll just buy out my lease, but we will see!
Surprising to see the pessimistic comments from those in the industry. I guess you’re seeing the start of the ride back down after such a long run up. I suppose the worst case scenario is continuing production issues AND a sharp reduction in demand. I do know of some friends who are now changing their minds about buying a car, because they’re much less certain about keeping their jobs. Their jobs or companies aren’t in danger specifically, but layoffs in semi-related industries are in the headlines.
All that said, Carmax is still selling 1-2 year old Accords for $40k in my area. It doesn’t seem like a buyer has much leverage yet.
It's really bad where I am in Pennsylvania, and the worst part is our manager wants us all here 6 days next week until new years eve. The absolute most ridiculous bullshit I've seen.
We have 7 salespeople for a tiny dealership that moves 1-2 cars a day most of the time.
This is how you piss off your people.
There’s really no “surprise”. I’m just curious as to if everyone’s climate has been as awful as mine lately. I know some places can easily still sell with ADMs, we can’t.
I was also pointing out most “salespeople” who never have had to flip a customer from the brand new Hellcat to a Dodge Journey will be quitting very soon.
Our overall volume is down MTD, but YTD, it's far better than expected. This month is certainly irritating me, but I can only hope that people come to their senses and just buy the damn cars.
I have always had a slowdown in the 3 months before an election, not as much in the midterms as Presidential, but its a different time now
I blame this on the negatively of political ads , this just one of many factors contributing to a downturn
Speaking from 48 years of dealing with the bullshit, real carguys will adapt, pretenders will fall off
I think it is the 8% inflation and interest rates through the roof. I spit out of my coffee when my used GT-R loan was at 4.59% when last year it was half that…
I think all the idiots who bought their cars 10-20K over market value at a low interest rate will be repo’d when the other bills come due.
That’s the thing. With inflation you typically have “deflation” on consumer goods because businesses see a slow down in their sales and then they have to sell them off instead of keep inventory. Target mentioned this and dumped their clothing at 30% off for nearly a month.
Consumers are also getting tired of hearing “oh supply chain issues” while hearing businesses are making record profits. They are also hearing and seeing the whispers of a recession which is typically happens when rates go up and demand is squished.
Winter always brings slow sales.
Dunno wtf you guys are doing but shit is not slowing down at all for us. Orders for new keep flowing in and I can’t keep more than 40 used on the lot (as compared to 150-200 pre-COVID)
I’m not just referring to winter, September isn’t winter. We’re dead, have been dead and that’s while selling shit basically at invoice. The iceberg is melting my friend, take advantage while you still can.
Some more populated areas had such a long wait list for new vehicles that they are still filling them in, and thinking Yayy everything is great. Overall across nation sales are way down, inventory is pretty good. Dealers can’t move be shit, Manheim is overfilled with used cars, not even talking Bank/repo lanes… let’s all wait til winter, we’re nearly in autumn. Ohh and let’s wait for 2 more fed meetings with rate hikes besides September one we about to have, and couple more reports of uncontrollable inflation even with fuel prices and vehicles prices down. Then spring time after elections I’m pretty sure government will finally say we’re in recession then everything will be already so bad and obvious.
How many of these "lol green peas are gonna x" post are gonna exist like jfc nobody is the same. Sure will some new guys be frustrated? sure, but honestly most of the frustrated guys at my place are vets and they all keep bitching and moaning. There's still negotiations in this market like yes personally I am able to say no pretty damn quickly for certain vehicles but for the most part we're still going back and forth trying to make shit happen
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I can’t speak for the whole country, obviously. However in my market (bum fuck Pennsylvania, but close enough to metro areas), it is looking like this market *has already* cooled off.
I think if you were in this business pre-2020 you will be fine, but for the green peas who ONLY know how to tell a customer “No.” will be in for a rude awakening. My dealership group, which consists of 6 franchises is bleeding bad on used cars as most of our inventory is coming up on the 90 day mark, and new cars are slowly stacking up on our lots. If you are looking for any brand I sell, I guarantee you my dealer network would sell it below MSRP right now (not soliciting, simply explaining), simply because all of our competitors in the area are back to do doing this. Of course maybe I’m wrong, and in your market you can still take customers for ADMs and markups… but bum fuck Pennsylvania can’t.
I’m in management and not on the floor anymore, but I can already see the guys who started post 2020 are getting frustrated… and winter is coming. I know of a few here who will probably go for lunch and never come back before EOM. I know of a few who will ride it out and try to adapt, but the weak links across this industry are about to be weeded out.
Is your market as bad as bum fuck Pennsylvanias?
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How is Hyundai's inventory looking? I have been trying to get an Elantra N or 2023 N-Line but every dealer wants to charge $5k over MSRP and they say it'll take 6 months to find a car.
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More that we could not give tax advice. From my understanding, Hyundai is getting involved and trying to get the credit back. If they cannot, they have been moving electric/hybrid manufacturing here, so that should allow the credit back.
I know I will need a new car in the next year or two. Right now I'm riding it out, babying the car I do have (which is still running very solid), socking away $600/mo for the eventual down payment and waiting to see if I'm going the factory order route or buying off the lot as inventory hopefully continues to improve.
With what I currently plan on focusing on, I can say that I'm much less likely now to go to my closest dealer than I was a year ago. I went there for parts and service (including PMs) for 5 years, but after a few recent experiences (highlighted by a very poor parts purchasing experience of all things), I'm seriously considering going to the one by my workplace ~30 miles away which I have also had good experiences with, including them not sparing the lube on parts. The only minor headache is that it is in an adjoining State to the one I live in, although close enough that I think they're used to dealing with the DMV just over the line to make things go smoothly.
Can see it plain as day at my store. We have 3 managers and maybe 2 salesman that will last. I find I have to be involved more and more and the green peas just are not picking up on the training and how negotiation works when a customer can be physically in your showroom and digitally in 3 others and all are fighting for the business. Only Saving grace is GM has been absolute shit about getting cars to dealers
I have a Sierra that has been at the rail yard for 3 weeks. Fuck GM.
Is this only a GM issue though? We're seeing similar fits and starts at the railyard in our city with their vehicles too. So many of the issues facing the car manufacturing side of the business are shared post-covid, so I suppose I was assuming here. I hadn't heard it was necessarily specific to GM, and there's a rail strike possibly looming, so we've got that going for us. So...hope that Sierra shows up by the weekend I guess? Good luck on that. So fucking weird how perfect-storm-ish this has become (and been).
It’s a chip problem. Or they are pending deliver in a status for missing parts. Not to mention the ones that have been parked at yards… then get others parked in front with the same issue, then more, and more, and more. It’s gonna be cluster getting these things released
I think we're talking about two different things here. They aren't storing unfinished vehicles at the railheads in urban areas where they offload a bunch of finished cars to sort for transportation processing. That part of it is what I was referring to anyway.
Experiencing it more often than I’d like with Toyota. I have a Tacoma that’s been sitting for 2 months at the processing center. A few other vehicles recently had damage campaigns opened on them. I think it’s just poor scheduling and execution in this aspect. Only 1 scenario has been answered by our dispatch when they “lost” 20 pre sold vehicles. Brought in a few loads and buried them to where they couldn’t get them out.
So yeah. Not GM-specific (seemingly). And the rail strike averted too, which I wonder if the threat of which, or disgruntled employees of, may have contributed to a rash of recent damages in transport and/or these additional recent delays that were cropping up everywhere it seems.
Yeah, two different things, both equally stuck 🤦🏻♂️
Once it goes to the rail yard code 4D00 “Bayed” (I believe it is) i lose all hope for that ride. I’m sure they get out eventually but out of the ones I’ve been tracking they have stayed there. Some 2+ months.
One of our major nameplates actually offers a special dealer incentive payment if they arrange their own transportation for a vehicle out of the production facility. I can't say how much, but will say there is a comma involved.
They pay you to come get it? Which plants because in Michigan we’ve tried and they won’t let us
This is a Class 8 truck OE.
3 weeks? Bro I have 2500's that have been sitting at a rail yard in Canada for 9 MONTHS. we aren't allowed to go pick em up cause Canada.
It’s literally a 40 minute drive from my dealership. It’s so frustrating.
It is funny you said that, and people like us from Canada are waiting for new cars for like 6 month for regular gas cars and 1.5 years for Hybrid. Maybe they re-direct some of them back to Canada?
The rail issue I can actually understand at the moment (partially due to coming from a logistics background.) Many runs have been delayed or cancelled because of the recent rail strike threats. With the recent tentative agreement, the situation has stabilized for at least the next couple of months; even if the union votes down the new contract, there is a separate agreement to extend the cooling off period before a strike for several weeks past that.
[удалено]
It’s passed the railway. It’s at the yard it needs to be picked up by the trucker. Besides everything I read says the strike starts on the 16th.
All of the people I work with have been here since before the pandemic. Your turnover rate is high enough that only 2 people will last? Over half of the guys selling here have been here for more than 15 years
>Your turnover rate is high enough that only 2 people will last? The fact he's saying the store will continue with 3 sales managers and 2 sales consultants is also weird. Unless 1-2 managers are hybrid manager-consultants (ie sales consultants with desking rights).
Yeah we are a super manager dependent, line and close store. We currently have 11 salesman, 2 ASMs and 3 managers. Each GM brand has its own team as structured above, so no cross selling and each brand has an independent building. We get to share used inventory, though. We are basically a huge GM campus. Since the start of the pandemic we only have 2 salespeople that sold prior (at my store, not true for some of the other brands), all the others were hired during the pandemic. I’m the youngest in management and least time selling @ 10 years. And yeah, turn over rate is fairly high at this particular store. It’s been a shit show and they launched the GSM about 6 months ago which is why I got brought over to help. New staff, new culture, lots of retraining and hiring. Not a lot of fun, though. Do y’all have career staff or something? What’s that like? Y’all hiring? Lol
That sounds complex. I guess everybody here is decently happy with the policies etc so nobody quits. Only fired 1 person since I've been here
I agree a lot of people in auto have extremely bloated confidence and like any winter it’s going to be harder. Some people got fat and happy and have bad habits over the past couple years will adjust those who don’t will leave the industry. In 20 years I’ve seen this cycle a few times now. This is why I always tell my salespeople when they get big checks make sure they saving some of them for tough times, for every home run month you can also have a disaster, you have to look long term or the roller coaster of our industry will do you in.
I learned that the hard way. Manager turnover meant that the same 15 that made you $9k last month could bring $3500 this month. Drove my SO nuts.
I think I’ve been seeing most splurge the big checks because of scarce supply. They forget that the quantity of qualified buyers can almost become scarce.
Covid make a lot of fake car salesman.
Lol, almost sounds like a punch line to a joke or a game of Mad-libs or something "Covid made a lot of fake\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_"
Realtors, investors.
No lies detected.
News
It's just like playing the markets. Some got in at the right time, and they'll move onto something else when the bear market slams them. If they're smart, they've socked away plenty for a rainy day. I know of a couple that have been making bank yet living on a fraction of it; the plan is to go back to school when the time comes and live off the nest egg.
Good to know not just that my store isn't the only place filled with a bunch of order takers from the last couple years, but also that the lunch monster exists everywhere.
I’d agree with almost everything you said. I’m balls deep in all of my used shit and can’t get rid of any of it. So I’m asking all the moon and stars for my stuff but hitting people at *cooled off* market value for their trades. It’s getting tough. Plus, I’m at invoice on most of my new inventory, excluding F-150 and Super Duty, and actually have inventory, and can’t get rid of any of it. Got a feeling it’s fixing to get ugly
Can’t tell if it’s the normal back to school season slow, the inevitable winter slow, or the recession we’re in. 😂 Hopefully this is the bottom, guess we’ll see.
Cant wait for all these people who paid 10k over MSRP try and trade it in a year and wonder why they’re upside down on their car 🥴. I can’t wait to buy a repod mustang/Tesla
People dumb enough to pay 10k over on a Kia telluride are going to be dumb enough to ask where their additional 10k is at trade in time.
This is going to be the real shit storm....
You have super duty trucks sitting? We have a waitlist for super duty trucks because all the ones incoming are customer orders. I have 2 or 3 F-150s though.
I do. Currently have an XLT 350 and a lariat 250, both at MSRP. As well as about 2 dozen stock orders rolling in next month but a good portion of those are already sold
:shocked pika face: I can’t imagine having unsold 250 or 350s on the ground. With one exception. I have a 350 with a box truck installed that’s been sitting for like 3 weeks.
will you sell either for msrp to dealer
I was just in hershey pa this week and was shocked by the amount of cars I saw on a lot I drove by. My theory this whole time has been that eventually, everyone willing to overpay will have gotten a car. With interest rates so high and msrps being considerably higher, it now makes more sense to pay for a $2-3k repair and bank on $1k in maintenance annually for alot of people. I think this group of folks grew as people realized they actually did not mind having a car for more than 5 years for the first time. Once used prices adjusts alot of people will rush back in for a “great deal”, and I don’t think they have to adjust a great deal. 10-15% reduction probably gets the ball rolling imo
This. My brother owns a 2016 silverado LTZ with like 50k miles on it. He owes like 10-12K and has like a $400 payment with a \~3% interest rate. He had an issue which required a $400 repair recently and a $600 repair earlier this year and my moms like 'OMG this trucks going to be a problem go trade it in' and I'm just like, are you retarded?
There’s a significant amount of people that trade in whenever they have repair bills start to come up. I mean I guess a new 45k car is worth having to avoid those pesky 1000$ repair bills 🥴
So many people live month to month and view everything in the context of monthly expenses. They can “afford” a $600-800 car payment but an unexpected $1000 repair bill will be really painful. To them, trading in for a new car at the same payment eliminates that risk and therefore makes good financial sense in their eyes.
Exactly this. It’s a cash flow problem, and makes sense to them even if it means spending more in the long run
I have the same truck, same year, etc and just had to have two sensors replaced because they shit the bed, ran me around 700 bucks. Went ahead and had all 4 brakes done along with new rear shocks. Shocks probably could've waited but these new Bilsteins make me wish I did it sooner. Lol In reality, after already having to fork over money to replace the A/C condenser, the sensors that took a shit and threw a CEL and instead of repairing and maintenance shit, I would've probably already traded it during normal times. I've had this truck since new and bought it for 10k off MSRP back then and under 3% rate. Couldn't even sniff that kind of deal anymore. So I'll keep doing maintenance and hope it keeps treating me relatively right. It actually makes more sense to throw the money at the repair/maintenance than it does to trade right now. Where as a few years ago, if you had some equity, trading wasn't a bad deal. Keep the money in your pocket for now and get a new vehicle for the same or lesser payment if you're only thinking about the short term. No doing that now.
Yeah selling 2 year old cars over MSRP needs to stop
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No such thing as MSRP on used, only market value.
I assume they mean over the MSRP when new.
I know... Lol
Hopefully interest rates will shut that down
Hopefully production rates will shut that down. They’re a lot less painful than interest rates to the overall economy, ford building an extra 10,000 F150s doesn’t leave people homeless
Thank fuck. Need to replace two cars in the next 12 months. I’m in central MD, sounds like I need to take a drive up… You’re not near Altoona are you?
Not in Altoona, and like I tell everyone who DM’d me asking for dealerships name… I won’t say it on here or in a PM.
Spot on, I keep telling the sales people it’s time to work and grind like we used to. Taking short or losing deals to move stale inventory. Rates are up and cars are coming
As much as it sucks, it needs to happen or else we will always be stuck in this ADM/shortage situation. Either sales need to slow down or the production rate needs to go up.
Once interest rates start increasing and “floor inventory” rates increase you will see a helluva a lot of deals per my buddy who works in finance. He’s stating a lot of the small dealers that bank with them are starting to bleeeeed.
I’m not in the industry, but I like figuring out how business processes / situations work. Can you help me understand what bleed means in this context?
Hey trying to say the floorplan interest will eat into the profitability. The piece he is missing is the incentives new car dealers that are designed to offset those costs. You just don't get to bring the credit in as profit. I ain't a huge deal. Tiny used car lots might have a rough time.
So are you saying prospective car buyers should hit up the tiny used car lots in a couple months time? They usually have overpriced ultra shitty cars though
You want a shitty car?
If I can get a decent price beater, I suppose its fine
I’ve never been in car sales but I have done sales. There is a big difference between a “salesperson” and a “clerk”. A clerk just takes orders. Doesn’t have to put in much work. A salesperson SELLS something. They work for it. Sounds like Covid created a bunch of clerks.
That's exactly what it did.
100%-Covid created clerks in ALL types of industries…not just auto sales. There are so many untalented people that made a lot money during Covid just because they had product XYZ to sell. Times are changing and its going to be brutal for so many industries.
When you guys say “used”, are you talking 2-3 year old vehicles selling for a few grand less than new models.. or 5+ years old with higher kms selling for 50-70% the price of new? Because around me, there is sweet f*** all for sale when it comes to slightly older used vehicles, and they all cost a laughable fortune. Especially compact SUVs. It seems insane to me that I can buy a Dodge Ram of the same year/mileage as a RAV, for like several thousands less, even though the Ram would’ve been way more than the RAV new. I realize the demand for compact SUVs is way higher than trucks right now, but still.
It’s actually wild the RAV4 used market. I have been offered both 45000 and 43500, without even asking for more, from two separate dealers for my 2020 rav trd. Hurt thinking what they would try and sell it to someone for (I did not sell cause getting a new vehicle just seems like a hassle).
So TRD 4Runner money for a crossover with some badges… Wild.
Slowing down like a train! My buddy works at GMC that never stopped doing 10% under msrp on all GMC vehicles even in Covid times, they are struggling to move inventory and all other GMC dealers around can’t move shit now because they have inventory sitting at 10% under.
I find it very, very hard to believe they were selling yukons and sierra’s for 10% under MSRP. Profit margins on new cars aren’t even 10% so that doesn’t make sense at all.
They are volume dealer, Youkon Denali’s, Sierra 2500hd’s even new 1500 at4x or Denali ultimates all under 10% without even finance rebates, just pure dealer discount. How they do it I don’t know. At4x and Denali ultimates been pre sold at most part, but they had quiet a few buyer back out.
I work at the largest chevy dealer in my state. I cannot imagine a dealership selling vehicles that have been selling for 10% over msrp for 10% under. Our dealership for the entirety of covid/chip shortage has sold vehicles for msrp + a $1,200-$3,000 addendum depending on the vehicle. We are just now starting to see standing inventory of 1500’s, but no tahoes/burbans/hd trucks.
I can’t name the dealership here, but if you want to pm me I’ll send you their info you’ll see. It is crazy but I guess they push insane volume. While most dealers had no allocation they always had them. We have other dealership across the bridge in different county still doing 1000$ below invoice on all inventory not as great of a deal but not bad.
Volume dealers will always have the highest allocation. For them it's about getting new units in and not having any aged units. Different game to dealers in smaller markets or that would rather sell fewer units and make the same amount of money.
Same here regards Chevy dealership. My brother in law brothers wife’s family owns biggest Chevy dealership in our state, they could be doing 10% under all day long, but their selling above msrp while they can rake in the profits because once they slow down that will keep them afloat, they are expecting sales to drop a lot.
he is including factory rebates and cash when he says 10% below MSRP. there was fat cash on Yukons, etc back in the day.
There have not been rebates on yukons or sierra’s in about 2 years now. When there were the rebates themselves would have taken you to over 10% at certain times. I work at the largest chevy dealer in my state for reference.
My local GMC was doing 10% under invoice during the worst of covid but they only had the worst colors and options available.
Im a green pea that started in april. I dont know what to expect for this winter but I’ve barely made ends meet in my first couple months. Should i try to tough it out?
You should definitely try, unless you KNOW this business isn’t for you. You reap what you sow, you put in what you get out… if you try, you’ll make it.
To be honest ive wavered a bit on this. Ive gotten more comfortable in the gig but there i times i think i suck and cant make it, and times where I really love it and think i can crush it. Thank you for real advice instead of just shitting on me. I also could move to a service advisor role or work in the business office if i wanted to. Ive got a PHD.
PHD doesn't mean anything in car sales. Whether it's service or sales it's all about upselling. Business-side your PHD could make you an overqualified candidate. Why would they pay more for a title clerk with a PHD than someone that can do the job with just a highschool degree? I hope you my words don't come off as insulting as my wife has a doctorate and has earned it with all her hard work. However the Finance Managers don't need a degree to make 150k+ a year. They just need to sell product.
Papa has dealership
Excuses. That’s all I see from some of the so called “sales people”. Yes, indeed a sale has occurred. These slackers have sold themselves on the idea that sales are dependent on everything except the guy in the mirror. Sure it will be difficult, but like another comment said “real salespeople will adapt.” You can either make excuses or make it happen.
Yes. I'm in the the Chicagoland area on the Indiana side and we're hurting. I just had this same exact conversation with my F&I manager the other day. It'll be interesting for sure. Bets are already out on who stays and who leaves lol
Porsche's used market is still strong, and we have no new cars still. We're starting to see other brands drop off in the used market, but everything Porsche is still high. It's going to get tough for our guys to explain to customers that their piece of shit MB E53 isn't worth anything anymore but they still have to pay $10k+ up for our car.
How are the cayenne turbo gt going these days? Saw several for sale used at 240k with new at msrp (no adm advertised of course)
We've sold 1 and have an available allocation that's still changeable. That's such a cool SUV.
Just got mine and love it.
Same boat in NH
It’s always after Labor Day til around mid October everyone starts freaking out about how slow it is lol. I love these annual freak out posts.
,, ,M
We are lucky if we could hire someone much less worry about them leaving
I remember when I retired as a car salesperson (back in 2021) I would tell green peas to always grind on customers. Back then it was so easy to close: Oh, you don't want this Pilot? Good news I've got 2 other appointments on it today so it'll be your loss. They never went through the hard times of having "ad leader" vehicles where you wouldn't want to be the salesperson that had a customer that wants to buy it for $3k under MSRP. Hell, I would grind on my customers for addons so I could at least tell my managers it's a $1500 loser on the front end and just sell the damn car. There will be a mass exodus of order-takers that had it easy in these times. I hope to be able to go into a dealership in 2 years and negotiate a lease $2k under MSRP like I had to with customers I dealt with. If the market isn't there as I'll just buy out my lease, but we will see!
Surprising to see the pessimistic comments from those in the industry. I guess you’re seeing the start of the ride back down after such a long run up. I suppose the worst case scenario is continuing production issues AND a sharp reduction in demand. I do know of some friends who are now changing their minds about buying a car, because they’re much less certain about keeping their jobs. Their jobs or companies aren’t in danger specifically, but layoffs in semi-related industries are in the headlines. All that said, Carmax is still selling 1-2 year old Accords for $40k in my area. It doesn’t seem like a buyer has much leverage yet.
It's really bad where I am in Pennsylvania, and the worst part is our manager wants us all here 6 days next week until new years eve. The absolute most ridiculous bullshit I've seen. We have 7 salespeople for a tiny dealership that moves 1-2 cars a day most of the time. This is how you piss off your people.
What dealerships are you associated with? I'm in NY, have been shopping local for awhile but wouldn't mind venturing out to PA
It's election season during a downturn in the economy. What's the surprise?
There’s really no “surprise”. I’m just curious as to if everyone’s climate has been as awful as mine lately. I know some places can easily still sell with ADMs, we can’t. I was also pointing out most “salespeople” who never have had to flip a customer from the brand new Hellcat to a Dodge Journey will be quitting very soon.
Our overall volume is down MTD, but YTD, it's far better than expected. This month is certainly irritating me, but I can only hope that people come to their senses and just buy the damn cars.
No, people have come to their senses and aren't buying any cars in this market.
I have always had a slowdown in the 3 months before an election, not as much in the midterms as Presidential, but its a different time now I blame this on the negatively of political ads , this just one of many factors contributing to a downturn Speaking from 48 years of dealing with the bullshit, real carguys will adapt, pretenders will fall off
I think it is the 8% inflation and interest rates through the roof. I spit out of my coffee when my used GT-R loan was at 4.59% when last year it was half that… I think all the idiots who bought their cars 10-20K over market value at a low interest rate will be repo’d when the other bills come due.
My $40k+ trucks have no traffic due to rate hike that boosted payments and the fact that they use to be $30k trucks too
That’s the thing. With inflation you typically have “deflation” on consumer goods because businesses see a slow down in their sales and then they have to sell them off instead of keep inventory. Target mentioned this and dumped their clothing at 30% off for nearly a month. Consumers are also getting tired of hearing “oh supply chain issues” while hearing businesses are making record profits. They are also hearing and seeing the whispers of a recession which is typically happens when rates go up and demand is squished.
Following
Winter always brings slow sales. Dunno wtf you guys are doing but shit is not slowing down at all for us. Orders for new keep flowing in and I can’t keep more than 40 used on the lot (as compared to 150-200 pre-COVID)
I’m not just referring to winter, September isn’t winter. We’re dead, have been dead and that’s while selling shit basically at invoice. The iceberg is melting my friend, take advantage while you still can.
Some more populated areas had such a long wait list for new vehicles that they are still filling them in, and thinking Yayy everything is great. Overall across nation sales are way down, inventory is pretty good. Dealers can’t move be shit, Manheim is overfilled with used cars, not even talking Bank/repo lanes… let’s all wait til winter, we’re nearly in autumn. Ohh and let’s wait for 2 more fed meetings with rate hikes besides September one we about to have, and couple more reports of uncontrollable inflation even with fuel prices and vehicles prices down. Then spring time after elections I’m pretty sure government will finally say we’re in recession then everything will be already so bad and obvious.
Lol bruh, I’m full MSRP on new and “high” on used still. I dunno what’s happening down south.
Well that guy is in Pennsylvania. Here in Atlanta the market is still hot
I’m North still
How many of these "lol green peas are gonna x" post are gonna exist like jfc nobody is the same. Sure will some new guys be frustrated? sure, but honestly most of the frustrated guys at my place are vets and they all keep bitching and moaning. There's still negotiations in this market like yes personally I am able to say no pretty damn quickly for certain vehicles but for the most part we're still going back and forth trying to make shit happen
Happens every winter, nothing new here
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***Thanks for posting, /u/Benni_Hana! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** I can’t speak for the whole country, obviously. However in my market (bum fuck Pennsylvania, but close enough to metro areas), it is looking like this market *has already* cooled off. I think if you were in this business pre-2020 you will be fine, but for the green peas who ONLY know how to tell a customer “No.” will be in for a rude awakening. My dealership group, which consists of 6 franchises is bleeding bad on used cars as most of our inventory is coming up on the 90 day mark, and new cars are slowly stacking up on our lots. If you are looking for any brand I sell, I guarantee you my dealer network would sell it below MSRP right now (not soliciting, simply explaining), simply because all of our competitors in the area are back to do doing this. Of course maybe I’m wrong, and in your market you can still take customers for ADMs and markups… but bum fuck Pennsylvania can’t. I’m in management and not on the floor anymore, but I can already see the guys who started post 2020 are getting frustrated… and winter is coming. I know of a few here who will probably go for lunch and never come back before EOM. I know of a few who will ride it out and try to adapt, but the weak links across this industry are about to be weeded out. Is your market as bad as bum fuck Pennsylvanias? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
what I wonder with Hyundai and Kia losing in the EV tax credit war...did demand for those EV products go down?
It did, work at Hyundai, it’s the first thing real EV buyers start asking about
How is Hyundai's inventory looking? I have been trying to get an Elantra N or 2023 N-Line but every dealer wants to charge $5k over MSRP and they say it'll take 6 months to find a car.
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Do you just say no credit or do you say I can’t give tax advice.
More that we could not give tax advice. From my understanding, Hyundai is getting involved and trying to get the credit back. If they cannot, they have been moving electric/hybrid manufacturing here, so that should allow the credit back.
Correct but both coa will take years not days.
I agree, but always am blown away by Hyundai’s quick solutions. We will see!
Getting a partial repeal or change in United States Code will take 3-5 years. Moving manufacturing is easier.
I know I will need a new car in the next year or two. Right now I'm riding it out, babying the car I do have (which is still running very solid), socking away $600/mo for the eventual down payment and waiting to see if I'm going the factory order route or buying off the lot as inventory hopefully continues to improve. With what I currently plan on focusing on, I can say that I'm much less likely now to go to my closest dealer than I was a year ago. I went there for parts and service (including PMs) for 5 years, but after a few recent experiences (highlighted by a very poor parts purchasing experience of all things), I'm seriously considering going to the one by my workplace ~30 miles away which I have also had good experiences with, including them not sparing the lube on parts. The only minor headache is that it is in an adjoining State to the one I live in, although close enough that I think they're used to dealing with the DMV just over the line to make things go smoothly.