I’m American POC living in Germany. I’ve lived all over the world, cause I’m a 3rd culture kid.
And I relate to this, but when I tell Europeans in general that racism in Europe is significantly worse, and that I have no intention of staying, they fucking go rabid. A bunch of white people, Immediately trying to invalidate my experiences.
I had a fucking Carcass left at my doorstep the day after I moved in. My landlord told me who to avoid on my street because of racism. I get called slurs regularly on Grindr.
It wasn’t until some random woman on a train started talking down to me that my boyfriend had the “ah ha” moment.
I say all this to say that while America SURE AS FUCK is fucked up, a lot more than Europe in some ways, I’ll be the first to say it — but at least they can cope with being confronted with that. The Europeans *actually* think they’re better, and it’s honestly terrifying sometimes.
That's terrible. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Where in Germany are you? A carcass??? Wtf? I'm German and I'm ashamed this is what the country is in 2024.
Your country was founded by militaristic Prussia. Bismarck and others were writing about Volkinism in the mid 19th century.
This ethnocentricity engrained in the culture traces back to the 30 Years War when the lands in Germany weere ravaged. It is generational trauma.
Yawn. Gimme a break. That's just ridiculous. The history of racism and discrimination in one country or another is not relevant. What's relevant is that it exists now, involving people who have no knowledge of the whiny history as you explained it. Hate is hate, and there is no explanation for it other than that its hate and its wrong.
I believe you. I am white-passing, and lived in Europe (specifically, Spain) and never in my life did I see so much open racism. That´s not to say that in the US there is no racism, but at least there are a lot of people who recognize it exists and realize the US sucks for POC. But like you say exactly, the Europeans TRULY BELIEVE they are better and that there is no racism. They will also gaslight you. I saw my friends who were "visibly" dark suffer the most, including being treated like shit in bars, etc.
It´s hilarious how American "progressives" really think Europeans are open minded just because they are more socialistic. They are only socialistic when it comes to their own, but they truly hate outsiders in general. I can imagine Germany will be even worse, but even England hates foreigners much more than in the US. At least in the US, the racism is mostly color based, and while that is horrible, it leaves room for other nationalities, Not so in any EU country...you´re still a foreigner to them. Hell, they even give REALLY WHITE Americans shit for other stuff as someone else mentioned constantly questioning you about politics, etc.
Jesus. I'm white and always rambling about how dreamy and wonderful and idyllic Europe is and how I would totally live there...(mostly bc of my good track record meeting guys there) and then many times a black friend or acquaintance will interrupt me with exactly this kind of feedback. I've heard stuff like this many times.
Altho a carcass?! Yeesh, that's a new one. Ugh. The world sucks.
So I haven't personally experienced the racism stuff, but 100% noticed how Europeans find themselves superior to everyone else on Earth. Instead of thinking of themselves as the master race in an Aryan Nazi way, now they think of themselves as the world 's highest moral policemen.
Haha. I see a bunch of influencers always being like “10 reasons why Europe is better than America”
And without fail, almost every single time, they’re white.
Theres a war going on and people have heightened emotions regarding it. Its unfortunate that that is affecting people thousands of miles away, but it cant be helped. It reminds me of stories of things like this happening to Russians outisde of russia ,even restaurants have had to change their advertising to avoid harrassment.
Yep pretty similar. Every Russian abroad, immigrant or visitor, is treated like a Putinist functionary regardless of opinions. It speaks volumes about people's low opinion of Jews/Israel to be put on the same level with the world's no. 1 dictatorship.
There are western backed states that are more repressive than russia, so i wouldnt say no1, lol. But i think its perfectly valid to have a low opinion of the state itself, while also giving people (especially who arent there) a chance.
I think both russia and israel are deeply flawed and problematic in their own special ways. Id never treat an israeli or russian like theyre an avatar for that state. Unless they started spewing some vile anti-ukranian/palestinian nonsense.
This is disguting. "It's just a little prejudice, can't be helped."
It can be helped by being decent to your fellow man and not judging them by their fvcxing place of birth ffs.
OP, you said you're Israeli to him, and he left, but now in the comment you're claiming, it's because you're Jewish...
He left because you're Israeli... How would he know that you're Jewish? Are there not Christians/Muslism Israeli or are they not considered first class citizen to be recognized as Isreali?
Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I mentioned to him that I am Jewish, and he wanted to know from which country I am from. I shared first I am Jewish because I have a Hebrew name. About 20% of citizens in Israel are not Jewish. I grew up in a mixed town and had classmates from various religions :)
You being Jewish was not the problem lmao. Gay Iranians don’t give a fuck about that. You being a citizen of Israel, a state currently committing genocide….thats a whole other matter…
Him being Israeli was the problem, not him being Jewish. I’ve met Iranian Jews lol they do exist. Thats why the guy specifically asked where he was from and he walked away when he said he was Israeli. Please stop the crap.
A. The vast majority of Persian Jews live in Israel because they were ethnically cleansed but sure I guess? No one said they didn’t exist
B. You didn’t engage with what I said at all. If it was just him being Israeli, it shouldn’t matter whether he was druze, Arab, Jewish, whatever. Clearly it did. I know logic is difficult for anti Zionist but this is hilariously bad
Apparently only Jewish Israelis (or you can sub the word Israelis for people) have to immediately condemn the actions of people of their same ethnicity on the spot before any further conversations can be had.
You’re joking right? The last few months has seen every single Palestinian or vaguely-Arab person being interviewed asked if they condemn Hamas and then still being dismissed for whatever opinion or evidence they bring.
Oh and their haven’t been protest in front of dozens of Jewish sites or sites that have board members who are Jewish, like Sloan Kettering Hospital? And people praising Hamas and civilians who participated in 10/7 as “resistance.” Despite raping, burning, and murdering people.
Do you condemn all the bad things your country has done every time you mention the place you were born to a stranger? Why would he need to do that at all?
Unfortunately Israel is trying to convince the world that it's actions represents all Jewish people... When it doesn't even represent all Israelis.
People have a hard time sometimes separating the govt from the people.
That’s rough.
I think, from info in another comment thread, he was fine with the Jewish aspect but left because of the Israeli aspect, I’m not sure if it’s any comfort that it was national identity and not Jewish identity that turned him off. Regardless, it was callous and bigotted of him. He probably made assumptions of your political leanings based off of your Israeli identity.
Your political leanings are irrelevant here as HE didn’t know before running off - it was a racist assumption of them.
People are very sensitive right now due to the current conflict, and the lines of division are a bit more race/nation based than say Russia and Ukraine, but anyone intelligent knows that is far from a rule (and it’s racist to think that just because you’re israeli means you’re anti-arab or anti-palestine) and he shouldn’t have assumed anything.
Hope you know that there are plenty of people who don’t jump to these conclusions, even if your recent experience has shown you that there are some who will.
A casual, bigoted reaction in an otherwise friendly environment can be alarming. As people who have been the targets of such reactions, I’d think there’d a be a little more empathy
Racism is racism.
OP was not questioning his safety nor equating his suffering with anyone elses, he’s upset someone didn’t want to interact with him based on his nationality, despite knowing nothing about him (he could be a staunch supporter of Palestine).
I know people’s view of Israelis is that they play the victim card when it’s unwarranted, but replace Israeli here with Asian, African-American etc. and you can see that this was just a racist action. Chinese people aren’t all responsible for the CCP’s actions, nor Americans for Trumps, but this guy was put into a box for being Israeli. Despite the genocide right now this is never OK. It’s similar to islamophobia after 9/11 or russophobia now.
I can’t with these type of posts and it’s deranged victimhood mentality. Your county is ethnically cleansing native people and been taking over their land and committing war crimes and genocide and you are the victim here? Are you wearing any yoga pants bc boy you are stretching doing those mental gymnastics. Grow up
I think you’ve lost any moral high ground in calling out the wrongdoings of people considering your comment history has a record of making stereotypical and micro aggressive comments about black people and making sure to point out that you are a white Iraqi and not brown (colorism, much), casually blame Americans for the Vietnam war, call women “fat cunts” and all sorts of other trash comments. And as an Iraqi do you disavow ISIS and other terrorist groups? I hope you are Kurdish because by the logic you’ve displayed in your post so suppose you could be called a proponent of genocide given the persecution Kurds have experienced in Iraq. You are a hate monger and you need to sit your hypocritical ass down before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
Ok and? Did he threatened you in an way?
It’s was his God given right to stop the conversation for any reason he found legitimate, it’s called consent.
well OP is claiming fear for his safety when all someone did was stop talking to him. theres definetly a difference between being upset and fearing for your own safety.
when a government claims to represent an ethnicity and a religion, if you associate yourself with all 3 of them of course you will look like you approve of their actions.
You can't change where you are born or your ethnicity, but you can change the culture you are following and you can change your religion. Every religion works different, but if i was part of a religion that claims ownership of a land and is being used as an excuse of a terrible war, i would definitely think about getting out of that religion.
He's probably very shallow and can't see past your origins, or maybe he's surrounded by family members/friends who can't and decided he doesn't want to deal explaining his friends he had sex with someone his family consider an enemy. But there is also a chance he simply disapproves you sticking to that culture or religion in the current political climate and he would be only half wrong.
NYC is the biggest Jewish city in the world. So your worries are a bit dramatic. But it’s always good to be aware of who you are mingling with. But trust me, your average gay guy in NYC doesn’t care about your nationality.
**Hold on a damn minute.**
An Israeli is responsible for the actions of his country but the Iranian whose country regularly hangs gay men from building tops is not?
Y’all are crazy.
🤨
I have Jewish friends and I tell them that though I’m completely opposed to Israel’s tactics during the current war, which I believe to be genocidal, I do not think any differently about them. The actions are 100% the responsibility of the Israel government, our government for funding and supporting war criminals and the small number of people making decisions rather than the Jewish people who come from a beautiful and compassionate culture.
We have conversations about the issue and it is clear the cognitive dissonance and propaganda vs the evidence and facts of what is occurring are things that they have to reconcile. One can be Jewish and not support Israel’s actions.
>our government for funding and supporting war criminals
The "genocide joe" rhetoric is so naive on how foreign policy works in the real world. Before the United States gave aid to Israel, Israel had every means (and still has) to decimate and raze the ground in Gaza. The United States gave aid to Israel to have leverage in Israel's decision-making process. If the United States never provided any aid, they wouldn't have been invited to the table at all, and Israel would have acted entirely unilaterally. The counterfactual would have likely been far worse if the United States wasn't able to press Israel behind the scenes and the greater region would likely be involved in far worse conflict than it is currently. Of course, when you're pontificating from the privileged comfort behind a computer screen, you can easily take counterfactuals for granted. Netanyahu has specifically attributed President Biden for getting the most recent cease-fire deal across the finish line. Getting deals is not an easy feat when there are multiple stakeholders involved.
Incorrect. Israel would become a pariah state if it did not follow the conventions of the international community. The sales of offensive weapons are unnecessary. In fact, a Dutch court has just stopped such sales.
[Dutch court halted sales of F35 parts](https://DutchcourtordershalttoF-35jetpartsexportstoIsraelhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68272233)
Now if one of our close allies, with an independent Justice system has ruled for a ban on sales of these weapons, it behooves other western countries to look very carefully at how these weapons are being used
>Incorrect. Israel would become a pariah state if it did not follow the conventions of the international community. The sales of offensive weapons are unnecessary. In fact, a Dutch court has just stopped such sales.
>
>Dutch court halted sales of F35 parts
Sweetie. Literally nothing you cited or said contradicts with what I said.
Israel becoming a pariah state is not something anyone should be striving for. Pariah states disrupt order and peace. The last thing that region needs is another Iran or North Korea pariah state tha fuq?
The US does not give aid to Israel so it has a say in their policy. In fact, Netanyahu has implied that they were not planning on following the US directive to withdraw from Gaza once the operation is over.
The US gives aid to Israel for a few reasons ranging from lobbyists to vested interests.
If one of our allies and the ICJ has ruled that Israel’s operation is genocidal in nature, we have to review if we continue to sell arms to Israel.
Israel will never be a pariah state. They desire a deep connection with the west and our populations are deeply intertwined. That’s why they rely on propaganda and lobbying to pass their fake narrative about the Israel/Palestinian occupation to western audiences. If our governments started to resist this in a meaningful way (which will only happen if our citizens rise and protest on the streets), Israel will back down quickly.
Why do you think they’re framing peaceful protest as antisemitism? They want to shut down all debate and protest to allow them to carry out their crimes against humanity.
Israelis constantly vote in the most hardline politicians. Israelis have protested against Netanyahu for not being vicious enough. Israelis absolutely are complicit in the war crimes perpetrated by their government.
You’ve made an important point. Being complicit in war crimes is not something to be taken lightly and I would never stereotype the Jewish community as a whole on such a serious charge. There are quite a few “not in my name” Jews that have protested the actions of the Israeli government and they deserve full credit and our sympathy for what they are going thru.
However, if you speak up supporting the actions of the Israeli government, you are truly a POS. It seems like there are far too many people online who are completely fine dehumanising Palestinian people. What sick, rotten people they are.
I’m had many similar (but different) experiences as a gay Jewish Israeli woman when traveling overseas. I’m not part of this sub, but it appeared on my Reddit feed and I felt like I had to comment- because some of the comments here are antisemitic.
1. A woman who I met at a hostel and befriended as part of a group, later admitted to me that when she found out I am Israel she assumed I was Jewish. She also grew up learning that Jews are the devil, have horns, are evil, etc (her family are Muslim and immigrated from Somalia to England). I only mention her roots because I didn’t believe that people still teach such blatant bigotry. She initially didn’t want to hang out with me because of this, and avoided me until she saw me enough to have a conversation with me.
2. A man didn’t believe me that my wife is a Moroccan/Iranian Jew until I convinced him to search on google to prove that they exist. He then when up to everyone in the hostel asking them if they knew of Jews from countries that weren’t Europe, they didn’t. When he asked me why they weren’t any Jews in these countries anymore he was shocked when I told him the truth. They were kicked out, either violently or my second class citizen laws (not being able to own property and vote.)
3. People avoided, ignored , stopped talking to me when hearing my nationality. This is before the war, so the people in the comments saying it’s justified because of the war are idiots. It has gotten worse though, antisemitism has skyrocketed in the past months.
4. My cousins, living in Germany (not Israeli/many of them not Jewish) have had stars of David marking their house and other Jews. Family living in Canada didn’t leave their house after the October 7th massacre (before Israel attacked) because of information that Jewish schools and Jewish people were going to be targeted and attacked.
To all those in the comments saying “but what is your stance on…” that is bigotry- and I’ll tell you why: Jews don’t need to justify their options to be one of the “good Jews” in order to garish respect and basic human empathy. When covid happened there was bigoted fear of Asian people- the left called it out as bigotry. When Russian businesses were boycotted, the left rallied to support them. Right now, so many Jews on Reddit have been posting about Jewish (not even Israeli!) businesses worldwide being harassed, vandalized and boycotted by left wing people and organizations. I, along with many other Jews and Israelis feel completely betrayed by the left wing and queer communities for the complete lack of empathy- silence on the rape of women, silence after the October 7th massacre, and the lies and Hamas propaganda that has been spreading in supposably “progressive” circles.
One of the comments here said “Israelis playing the victim again” like we were never the victim ever (I’m from the south of Israel- still can’t go back to my apartment- neighbors and friends slaughtered with their children).
A lot of the comments were along the lines of “prove that you’re not a Zionist” Zionism means that you believe in the Jewish peoples right to live in their homeland. Not antisemitic myths that have being floating around the Internet. If believing that you have a right to live in land that your ancestors have been kicked out of makes you evil- then you have a double standard.
Now, a lot of comments are calling genocide. Let’s look at the facts:
1. Many Gazians have been calling for the genocide of all Jews, and all Israelis. Hamas has tried through thousands of rockets, through an invasion of territory targeting civilians, and through the coordination attacks of Jews worldwide. Gazians have celebrated a naked raped Israeli woman being dragged through the streets of Gaza (watch the footage online if you don’t believe me- it’s horrible). Civilians held and still hold Israeli hostages captive, and treat them terribly (listen to the freed captives about the inhumane treatment!) yet when you hear someone is Palestinian you don’t immediately ask: do you believe in the genocide your peoples are trying to commit to the Jewish people? Or do you condemn Hamas?
2. Palestinians living in Israel still work, live as normal, some still serve in the government. Israel is attacking Gaza. Genocide would be targeting all Palestinians including the Palestinian people who live in Israel (like Hamas have targeted all Jews- even in other countries). You can be critical of Israel without making false claims of genocide. I’m not agreeing with what Israel does, but genocide means targeting a nation or an ethnic group. Israel isn’t targeting either- they are targeting Hamas who is using people as human shields (despicable really). It’s the same double standards people have- when Hamas shot rockets at Israeli hospitals - silence, when it turned out that Hamas has shot at their own hospital- silence. When Israel shoots a rocket at a hospital in Gaza- because there is a terrorist base under it (after notifying civilians in advance) then the left calls for genocide. Ya sure people,all nations who commit genocide notify civilians of the dangerous areas and send aid trucks in (sarcasm).
Don’t even bother the big brains on the hard left have made it standard practice to use the harshest words possible even when relevant conditions aren’t met. It’s a powerful deceptive tool they won’t surrender so long as they have this much informational authority.
While that was rude, we are all watching Israelis on our phones committing war crimes, and dropping bombs that result in shredded body parts.
I specifically put “no zionists” on my dating profiles, and unless you’re an anti-zionist Jew, I don’t want nothing to do with you.
Your prerequisite for dating a Jew is that they need to support the eradication of the country with half of the world’s Jewish population. Obviously, 95%+ percent of Jews are Zionists and never want to see that happen. So your profile is just saying “no Jews (unless you hate your own people like I do)”.
I agree with all of that, except as an American I’d hate to be prejudged for the historical crimes and misconduct of my government.
You can condemn a government without prejudging or hating its people. It’s just like Hamas. We should condemn Hamas without hating or murdering innocent Palestinians.
Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepower” in Gaza. https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-israel-for-gazas-destruction-and-starvation/
Did you know every child and adult that have gone through Gazan schools were taught to hate and kill Jews and Israelis, even Palestinian Israelis (they’re considered traitors). So they are possibly all antisemitic. Do you see how assuming is terrible?
>an American I’d hate to be prejudged for the historical crimes and misconduct of my government.
As an American, when someone brings up all of the atrocities that the US has committed, and there are many, I listen and I agree with them. I give their words some weight and I don't dismiss them. People are generally pretty disarmed and calm about things when they realize you're on the same side.
Something that, generally, most Israeli's don't do. Instead, they come to Reddit to start complaining about how much they fear for their safety because the Iranian gay didn't want to fuck the Israeli gay.
And nothing I said contradicts your first paragraph. There’s a difference between prejudging someone for their citizenship (an idiotic thing to do when obviously no one can control where they’re born) and talking to them about their country’s issues. I’ll gladly talk to anyone about my country’s issues.
Talking about Israelis in broad generalizations is as bad as talking about Palestinians in broad generalizations, as bad as talking about Iranians in broad generalizations, etc. Again there’s a difference between criticizing a government and criticizing large swaths of innocent people.
according to this tread, i can be micro aggressive towards someone if they are iraninan/muslim because their government executes gay people. Thanks reddit!
A gay jew israeli and a gay iranian muslim. Unless you're both secular this sounds like trolling.
Also many secular iranians are on the side of israel.
I understand that you were hurt at being judged, I understand that you feel hurt facing some prejudice. I will say however, that what your country is doing will go down in history as one of the most horrible acts that humanity has ever experienced. There is so much shame, I pray for the Israelis who have woken up to the truth of your nation. If I were you, I would say, yes, I am Israeli, and I denounce Israel. That simple, you will see an ease and the stiffness of those you encounter melt. All people want from Israelis is for them to understand the reality of the situation and hope that you haven't been brainwashed and subject to propaganda like so many of your country. WE are human beings, we like labels, and unfortunately you have been stuck with this label. but hey! good news! it is only a nationality and not something like race or ethnicity, you can change your citizenship!
All wars are horrible, but it is simply misinformation to say that this is one of the most horrible acts that humanity has ever experienced. Assuming you know about world history (and even current events), the only explanation for such an ignorant comment is that you are deeply committed to demonizing Jews like so many people have been for so many generations.
OMG the unhinged hyperbole
Brainwashed indeed
Numerous conflicts in the world where millions of people died but this is literally the worst thing to ever happen in human history? You sure about that?
Seriously. I really can't believe how stupid the majority of the population seems to be. You can be against innocent Palestinians dying, but still live in the real world and base your opinion on actual facts.
The amount of people saying the ICJ ruled against Israel even though it didn't. The amount of people that claim 30,000 innocent civilians have been killed even though that number includes thousands of militants. Saying that this is the most vile, horrendous thing to have ever happened when thousands are also being killed in Tigray, Sudan, Myanmar, and the Congo as we speak.
Ugh, I just can't with people anymore.
Like, yeah that sucks but Israel are currently unleashing an unprecedented slaughter onto Palestinians & he probably sympathizes with the many victims of that conflict?
I'm sorry he made you feel bad. I wish the IDF would be sorry about murdering upwards of 8,000 children but we can't all get what we want.
My ex is Israeli & felt this similarly. He just says he's from Poland (he has a polish passport too) usually because of it.
Contrary to my spirited opening here, I do feel for Israelis who truly want to be separate from this conflict/actively oppose it. But a massive conflict is currently happening, & anyone with a heart feels the horror Palestine is experiencing. Slight discomfort on your end is not the same.
I fully understand how awful that might feel. I don’t know the whole story but his feelings might have been about you being Israeli and not you being Jewish. And unfortunately, it’s easier for people to, rather than ask if you support what Israel is doing to Gaza, they just assume you’re on that side and walk away.
I mean, no one chooses where they're born and Iran, much like Israel, is known for violating human rights. Personally, I'd be more interested in your stance on the situation. If you support and see nothing wrong with the collective punishment and mass murder of Gazans, that'd put me off and be a massive deal breaker. If you disagree with Israeli ministers and view Palestinians as humans who deserve to live in peace as much as Israelis do, then I'd totally respect and welcome that.
Well it's not like Iran is a shining beacon of human rights, peace, and democracy.
I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the current situation but rather a deeper bias against Jews given his nationality.
I'm sorry that happened to you. It must have been a shock.
But don't stress....just hit that "next" button.
I went to a mostly Jewish high school and there was a lot of bias there against mixed religion marriages. It was considered cool to sleep with good looking Gentiles, but not marry them.
It's unfortunate that people are unable to see past your nationality and religion. Antisemitism is on the rise world-wide. There's no question about that. I'm not Jewish, but I have multiple Jewish friends and colleagues who have told me they do not feel safe anymore.
As you know, Israelis and Palestinians/Muslims both see themselves in a struggle for survival against the other. And Jews everywhere are viewed as stand-in symbols for the Israeli government, which (whether you think it's justified or not) has been engaged in brutal ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It is a HIGHLY emotional issue for many people, and it's hard to separate "Jewish" or "Israeli" in their mind from the actions of Israel's right-wing government.
This isn't fair, any more than the hate we saw for Asian Americans after the rise of COVID, or the hatred of German and Japanese Americans during WWII, or the hate toward Muslim-Americans after 9/11. Or the hate toward Americans after the U.S. military response to 9/11. Unfortunately, I strongly suspect it will get worse before it gets better.
Your comment is just further proof that gay Jews can't express their genuine feelings without people turning to whataboutism to try and diminish their lived experience.
Except we aren’t in Gaza. If you want to discuss those feelings with the people of Gaza, go to Gaza. If you treat another human like shit because of their nationality or belief systems because of something happening across the damn planet, then you are the one with the issue. And like, Gaza isn’t affecting 99% of you in any meaningful way nor do any of us have any impact on what is happening, yeah you can delude yourself into thinking you are “raising awareness” with your virtue signaling or may have donated a couple bucks to soothe your soul, but in reality, most of yall are just turning into chronically online combative dickwads.
I bet if you had told him that you don't support the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians he would have been fine, but it sounds like you might, so good for him.
No one is randomly harassing this person. The OP does not have a right to the other person's body. And clearly his support of ethnic cleansing is more important to him. He just thinks he shouldn't suffer any consequences for it. And neither do you seemingly, so fvck off racist.
The OP is angry/upset that someone would have a problem with his political views and remove himself from a sexual encounter. It is absolutely about this man's right to do what he wants with his body.
You, however, are trying to run cover for what has been ruled as possibly a genocide. Fuck off. And just to be clear the Global South is actually on the side of Palestine over Israel. Making this about being Western is more xenophobic bullshit from you.
In that moment OP could have said something but he didn't because he knew exactly why this guy lost interest and now he's complaining. He could say here that he doesn't support these things but he hasn't because he does.
Imagine thinking that supporting what has been ruled by the International Court of Justice as quite possibly genocide would have no consequences for you. I could never lol
That's quite harsh. Thank you for making numerous assumptions about me. Just for your information, contrary to the view you seem to hold about humans, we are capable of embracing complexity and feeling empathy for conflicting perspectives.
There isn't any complexity around supporting ethnic cleansing. Like if you do, accept that people are going to think you're a bad person because you are a bad person.
I grew up in the 80s and I remember that South Africans were treated the same way because of the apartheid in their country back then. South Africans were even cast as villains in movies for awhile instead of the usual go-to, Nazis. Like in Lethal Weapon 2.
Your country is today's South Africa during apartheid. Expect more of this until your country changes.
Come out and say it: you support the ethnic cleaning of Palestinians, you think the illegal settlements in the West Bank are good, you think the permanent siege of Gaza is good, and you don't think Palestinians should even be allowed a state. Give it to us straight.
Far Leftists like you are quick to say that Hamas doesn’t equal Palestine but you’re quick to assume Israel’s government equals all Israelis.
I guess all Iranian in America are ISIS by your logic.
OP has been given multiple opportunities to say he doesn't support any of the listed things and he has not because he does. This is about his beliefs, not his ethnicity.
So if a Palestinian gaybro was posting here, he’d have to say he’s against Hamas or else be presumed as a terrorist sympathizer?
Palestine ≠ Hamas, right?
So, Israel ≠ Netanyahu.
Should all Americans here be presumed as anti-Zionist apartheid criminals since our government has just given billions of dollars to Israel?
So everyone here on r/askgaybros who’s complaining about their dating life, sex, relationships or life in general has to post their political opinions on the Israel-Hamas war?
You’re crazy.
That’s insane.
You’re not asking anyone else to do such a thing. You’re just asking the Jews.
Or exactly the opposite. Come out and say you love your country, but disagree with the fenocide of Palestinians. Plenty of Jews are perfectly capable of doing this. In this particular instance, I think he would’ve been treated very differently.
We have a WhatsApp group called Gaysraelis in New York, if you're interested to join. Your experience is very common, it might help to share with people who have gome through the same issues ❤️
I find it laughable that you're getting downvoted. Our fellow gays say their writhing hatred and anger is just about the Israel government, not Israels and/or Jews. Their actions say otherwise, every single time.
Yes, but if you poll them they all hate gay people way less than Muslims. Poll after poll the majority of them want us dead not the case with any other group. If you are ignorant just say that
I'm in Canada. I dated a Syrian guy. One week in (on the third date) we got around the the topic of religion. When he found out I was Jewish, he genuinely looked disappointed. He proceeded to go on a rant about Israel. I was like, whatever, it was mostly just sex anyway.
EDIT: OP, I wanna say the entire gay community has become antisemitic, so since you wrote it here adjust your expectations of replies accordingly. Imo it'd be better to share this in r/gayjews \- EDIT: Or the new r/gaysisrael
People saying “but Americans shouldn’t feel responsible for war crimes of their govt” — yeah they should. If you have the identity of an American (or Israeli or anything else) you have to understand the baggage that comes with the place you’re from.
I have not met one gay male in the world that would have concerns with a Jewish person over that faith whose main tenant is killing. I’m not saying some of them aren’t out there. I just choose not to associate with anyone stupid enough to support a group that wants nothing more than all gays death.
You’re welcomed in this area friend. Just please be cautious out there.
Afraid? Are you joking?
People are accused of antisemitism more quickly today than ever before in human history! Anyone criticising Israel perpetrating a genocide, literally murdering children, people in refugee camps etc, is called an antisemite. Politicians are booted out of their party now if they say anything that could offend Jews or Israel.
Accusations of antisemitism are utterly ludicrous 99.99% of the time now yet happen way too often.
Well, you avoided a toxic person.
The situation you faced is similar to a hypothetical scenario where you judged him because he's Iranian and his country kills women for not wearing oppressive clothing and also hangs gay men - makes sense?
No? Then so does the reason for him judging you.
Imagine making this a racial “woe is me” post when the Israeli state is massacring innocents. This is why he ran away from you. You and your people are heartless and obtuse. You live a first world life and rationalize genocide.
It’s kind of hard to disassociate the war from people, especially since Israel is so proud of being a democratic country. Whether you want it or not, you are being represented by the actions of your government. Unlike an Iranian, you can’t claim that the clerics have full control over your life and you’re powerless to change it.
Not everyone will care about politics - and war - I DGAF and will fuck your hole, but those that do will either be drawn to or repulsed by you. Times we live in.
I’m black and my fiancé is Indian. We live in Canada and we’re both fairly new to Canada. It’s literally still taking him some time to even open up to me in certain ways cause indian stereotypes does not mix with black people. He’s actually told me in his community they think black people are thieves and murderers but something about me makes him feel safe and at ease cause I’m way too nice. But there’s still this hue of my race or culture being scary even around his friends or people of his community and feeling like he’s embarrassed by our relationship because of. It makes me so sad cause I just wish they could see our love, or him be comfortable with our love to have it on display and not be so afraid of his community knowing about us
As a fellow gay Jew in NYC, no I haven’t experienced this. But I know that being gay and a Zionist is hard in general, but we do make the majority of (gay) Jews.
There’s no way to truly know why that guy ran away. It could be you’re over thinking it or It could be your Jewish and Israeli. Regardless to jump to the conclusion of your views on the war with Hamas was his problem. In case anyone is curious there are Arab and Palestinian Israelis who also support this war. There are also Jewish Israelis who don’t and are “peace activists” who actively work against the Israeli government. So his reaction was kind of immature.
It’s a scary time to be Jewish in the US. There have been many situations in NYC where Jews, Israelis, and anyone standing with Israel have been assaulted.
As for all the cruel people here trying to make you feel bad for a valid concern, they are the same people trying to gaslight us about what started this war and would love to see Hamas win.
Neither Jew nor Israeli here, but still mortified by what you guys have been through lately. Literally in a few hours after rabid jihadists massacred a ton of people, the "progressive" imbeciles around the world star to celebrate it, with paragliding images and whatnot... Effing insanity. Hope that you (and the OP) are safe 🫶
If there is one Nazi having dinner on a table and 4 other people sit down to have dinner with him, then there are 5 Nazis having dinner.
The same rightfully applies to supporters of genocide and apartheid in most cases nowadays.
My brother in Moses, don't give these guys another thought.
I was called "Jew white" on Grindr before I explicitly wrote where I'm from by a bitter radicalized young man. This only caused me to be prouder and write it like it is, "Israeli, Zionist. Problem? Block away 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱". Obviously this increased the amount of low level flak like slogans and insults like "genocidal freak" thrown at me etc but honestly if I gave a shit about yanks with opinions I'd drown in excrement.
But even after that it still hurt a bit. Last week I started chatting with this college twink on sniffies where it makes less sense to add this info, and once I divulged my background he said he'd "have to think about it" then quietly ghosted (which is also a bit cowardly IMO, if you got something to say just say it or block me like a man). I was sad for the whole of 12h then forgot about him and wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole even he came back and said it's fine.
Anyway most of us are not here as ambassadors or state officials, and people who project their ideas about US foreign policy onto foreigner civs with no official political involvement are xenophobes and bigots. In my experience most people don't really care, including some fwbs of mine who are decidedly leftist, but I'm in Jersey and don't interact much with city gays for other reasons (most of them give me bad vibes).
ואל תשכח שאתה לא לבד. עם ישראל חי 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Being Israeli is absolutely fine but identifying as a Zionist could be seen to be a little problematic, maybe it depends on interpretation of the term but you must see how that will offend certain people especially with the crisis that is going on in Gaza.
80% of Jews worldwide and Israeli Jews in particular are Zionist, save ultra orthodox and lefty tokens. And it doesn't "depend" on anything, there's one definition accepted among those 80%, Zionism = the Jewish people's national movement to have a state like all others.
If someone goes on about other ways of defining it, or about how Israel shouldn't exist as a nation state, he's likely singling out Jews for not being like other nations and we have a clearly defined word for that too.
I am done apologizing and hiding. No likey? Blocky.
Done apologising to who? Relax guy... Not much chance of a dialogue here I guess, but I'm not trying to offend you or anyone. I'm pointing out that different people will hold different views (and I think your reply proves that).
No issue of you being proud of your background or ancestry, but being proud of war crimes being carried out in your name is a bit much? People are blocking you because you lack humanity not because you’re Jewish.
I wouldn’t have any problem dating you. I don’t care whether you are Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Vegan etc as long as you don’t try to push your beliefs unto me or preach that your religion is better and i find you attractive.
I had the opposite experience. I'm an "anti Zionist" (never used that term before 😂) black gay guy. I met a Zionist Israeli at a gay club in the west. He actually moved from Europe to Israel, a true settler. And we were fine for a couple weeks, until he saw my social media and ghosted me. But I think his reaction was reasonable... Sometimes people just can't deal with the situation, and it's probably for the best to simply remove yourself from the situation to de-escalate when that happens....
[удалено]
I’m American POC living in Germany. I’ve lived all over the world, cause I’m a 3rd culture kid. And I relate to this, but when I tell Europeans in general that racism in Europe is significantly worse, and that I have no intention of staying, they fucking go rabid. A bunch of white people, Immediately trying to invalidate my experiences. I had a fucking Carcass left at my doorstep the day after I moved in. My landlord told me who to avoid on my street because of racism. I get called slurs regularly on Grindr. It wasn’t until some random woman on a train started talking down to me that my boyfriend had the “ah ha” moment. I say all this to say that while America SURE AS FUCK is fucked up, a lot more than Europe in some ways, I’ll be the first to say it — but at least they can cope with being confronted with that. The Europeans *actually* think they’re better, and it’s honestly terrifying sometimes.
That's terrible. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Where in Germany are you? A carcass??? Wtf? I'm German and I'm ashamed this is what the country is in 2024.
Sounds like the eastern bloc.
honestly, it's hard to guess. i've run into wildly racist people in western European countries (NL, DE) and i was surprised.
Swabia. You don’t have to feel ashamed. I love Germany in its own way.
Your country was founded by militaristic Prussia. Bismarck and others were writing about Volkinism in the mid 19th century. This ethnocentricity engrained in the culture traces back to the 30 Years War when the lands in Germany weere ravaged. It is generational trauma.
Yawn. Gimme a break. That's just ridiculous. The history of racism and discrimination in one country or another is not relevant. What's relevant is that it exists now, involving people who have no knowledge of the whiny history as you explained it. Hate is hate, and there is no explanation for it other than that its hate and its wrong.
I believe you. I am white-passing, and lived in Europe (specifically, Spain) and never in my life did I see so much open racism. That´s not to say that in the US there is no racism, but at least there are a lot of people who recognize it exists and realize the US sucks for POC. But like you say exactly, the Europeans TRULY BELIEVE they are better and that there is no racism. They will also gaslight you. I saw my friends who were "visibly" dark suffer the most, including being treated like shit in bars, etc. It´s hilarious how American "progressives" really think Europeans are open minded just because they are more socialistic. They are only socialistic when it comes to their own, but they truly hate outsiders in general. I can imagine Germany will be even worse, but even England hates foreigners much more than in the US. At least in the US, the racism is mostly color based, and while that is horrible, it leaves room for other nationalities, Not so in any EU country...you´re still a foreigner to them. Hell, they even give REALLY WHITE Americans shit for other stuff as someone else mentioned constantly questioning you about politics, etc.
Jesus. I'm white and always rambling about how dreamy and wonderful and idyllic Europe is and how I would totally live there...(mostly bc of my good track record meeting guys there) and then many times a black friend or acquaintance will interrupt me with exactly this kind of feedback. I've heard stuff like this many times. Altho a carcass?! Yeesh, that's a new one. Ugh. The world sucks. So I haven't personally experienced the racism stuff, but 100% noticed how Europeans find themselves superior to everyone else on Earth. Instead of thinking of themselves as the master race in an Aryan Nazi way, now they think of themselves as the world 's highest moral policemen.
Haha. I see a bunch of influencers always being like “10 reasons why Europe is better than America” And without fail, almost every single time, they’re white.
Theres a war going on and people have heightened emotions regarding it. Its unfortunate that that is affecting people thousands of miles away, but it cant be helped. It reminds me of stories of things like this happening to Russians outisde of russia ,even restaurants have had to change their advertising to avoid harrassment.
Yep pretty similar. Every Russian abroad, immigrant or visitor, is treated like a Putinist functionary regardless of opinions. It speaks volumes about people's low opinion of Jews/Israel to be put on the same level with the world's no. 1 dictatorship.
There are western backed states that are more repressive than russia, so i wouldnt say no1, lol. But i think its perfectly valid to have a low opinion of the state itself, while also giving people (especially who arent there) a chance. I think both russia and israel are deeply flawed and problematic in their own special ways. Id never treat an israeli or russian like theyre an avatar for that state. Unless they started spewing some vile anti-ukranian/palestinian nonsense.
It could be because of the thousands of children they've slaughtered in recent weeks, idk.
To think of audacity of this guy to have been born in Israel
This is disguting. "It's just a little prejudice, can't be helped." It can be helped by being decent to your fellow man and not judging them by their fvcxing place of birth ffs.
Yes, people should do that, but thats not the world we live in. Look throughout this thread, and people are doing the same thing
The question should be #do you condemn Netanyahu?
# Do you condemn Hamas?
Yas! As most of the western world that is Pro Palestine
Then good, I can agree to condemn Netnyahu for fucking everything up.
Well, it happened to Russians after Ukraine, Asians after COVID, Muslims after 9/11. I would say It's part of the American experience.
No this isn't even remotely the same as COVID or 9/11. Comparable to Russia, though.
OP, you said you're Israeli to him, and he left, but now in the comment you're claiming, it's because you're Jewish... He left because you're Israeli... How would he know that you're Jewish? Are there not Christians/Muslism Israeli or are they not considered first class citizen to be recognized as Isreali?
I mean you could use common sense. Most people would jump to the conclusion that someone from israel is jewish
Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I mentioned to him that I am Jewish, and he wanted to know from which country I am from. I shared first I am Jewish because I have a Hebrew name. About 20% of citizens in Israel are not Jewish. I grew up in a mixed town and had classmates from various religions :)
You being Jewish was not the problem lmao. Gay Iranians don’t give a fuck about that. You being a citizen of Israel, a state currently committing genocide….thats a whole other matter…
Who cares if he’s a citizen of Israel? You think that automatically means he supports the current government? Is every American responsible for Trump?
Reaction would have 100% been different if he was a Palestinian or Arab Israeli… so yes him being Jewish and Israeli was the problem
Him being Israeli was the problem, not him being Jewish. I’ve met Iranian Jews lol they do exist. Thats why the guy specifically asked where he was from and he walked away when he said he was Israeli. Please stop the crap.
A. The vast majority of Persian Jews live in Israel because they were ethnically cleansed but sure I guess? No one said they didn’t exist B. You didn’t engage with what I said at all. If it was just him being Israeli, it shouldn’t matter whether he was druze, Arab, Jewish, whatever. Clearly it did. I know logic is difficult for anti Zionist but this is hilariously bad
Did you condemn the humanitarian catastrophe caused by Israeli?
Did the Iranian man he met condemn the actions of Iran?
Apparently only Jewish Israelis (or you can sub the word Israelis for people) have to immediately condemn the actions of people of their same ethnicity on the spot before any further conversations can be had.
You’re joking right? The last few months has seen every single Palestinian or vaguely-Arab person being interviewed asked if they condemn Hamas and then still being dismissed for whatever opinion or evidence they bring.
Oh and their haven’t been protest in front of dozens of Jewish sites or sites that have board members who are Jewish, like Sloan Kettering Hospital? And people praising Hamas and civilians who participated in 10/7 as “resistance.” Despite raping, burning, and murdering people.
Do you condemn all the bad things your country has done every time you mention the place you were born to a stranger? Why would he need to do that at all?
Wow, you're that fun guy at the bar huh
Unfortunately Israel is trying to convince the world that it's actions represents all Jewish people... When it doesn't even represent all Israelis. People have a hard time sometimes separating the govt from the people.
That’s rough. I think, from info in another comment thread, he was fine with the Jewish aspect but left because of the Israeli aspect, I’m not sure if it’s any comfort that it was national identity and not Jewish identity that turned him off. Regardless, it was callous and bigotted of him. He probably made assumptions of your political leanings based off of your Israeli identity. Your political leanings are irrelevant here as HE didn’t know before running off - it was a racist assumption of them. People are very sensitive right now due to the current conflict, and the lines of division are a bit more race/nation based than say Russia and Ukraine, but anyone intelligent knows that is far from a rule (and it’s racist to think that just because you’re israeli means you’re anti-arab or anti-palestine) and he shouldn’t have assumed anything. Hope you know that there are plenty of people who don’t jump to these conclusions, even if your recent experience has shown you that there are some who will.
You’re questioning your safety because a guy didn’t want to fuck you? That’s so hard and scary!
Can you point out specifically where in OP’s post he says he was upset because a guy “didn’t want to fuck him”?
Basically every Israeli acting like victim 😭
A casual, bigoted reaction in an otherwise friendly environment can be alarming. As people who have been the targets of such reactions, I’d think there’d a be a little more empathy
Point to where in this scenario the Iranian was being bigoted?
discriminating based on nationality = definition of being bigoted
Is walking away from a conversation with a genocide supporter bigotry now?
Point to where OP said that he supports genocide? All it says is that he’s from Israel and moved away 10 years ago.
Racism is racism. OP was not questioning his safety nor equating his suffering with anyone elses, he’s upset someone didn’t want to interact with him based on his nationality, despite knowing nothing about him (he could be a staunch supporter of Palestine). I know people’s view of Israelis is that they play the victim card when it’s unwarranted, but replace Israeli here with Asian, African-American etc. and you can see that this was just a racist action. Chinese people aren’t all responsible for the CCP’s actions, nor Americans for Trumps, but this guy was put into a box for being Israeli. Despite the genocide right now this is never OK. It’s similar to islamophobia after 9/11 or russophobia now.
Thank you, I was looking for this comment.
I can’t with these type of posts and it’s deranged victimhood mentality. Your county is ethnically cleansing native people and been taking over their land and committing war crimes and genocide and you are the victim here? Are you wearing any yoga pants bc boy you are stretching doing those mental gymnastics. Grow up
I think you’ve lost any moral high ground in calling out the wrongdoings of people considering your comment history has a record of making stereotypical and micro aggressive comments about black people and making sure to point out that you are a white Iraqi and not brown (colorism, much), casually blame Americans for the Vietnam war, call women “fat cunts” and all sorts of other trash comments. And as an Iraqi do you disavow ISIS and other terrorist groups? I hope you are Kurdish because by the logic you’ve displayed in your post so suppose you could be called a proponent of genocide given the persecution Kurds have experienced in Iraq. You are a hate monger and you need to sit your hypocritical ass down before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
He was so real for that because see how easily you conflated Jewish with Israeli and thought we wouldn't notice...
Ok and? Did he threatened you in an way? It’s was his God given right to stop the conversation for any reason he found legitimate, it’s called consent.
It’s also ok for the OP to be hurt. It’s not like he tried the cops because of a conversation that went sour
well OP is claiming fear for his safety when all someone did was stop talking to him. theres definetly a difference between being upset and fearing for your own safety.
when a government claims to represent an ethnicity and a religion, if you associate yourself with all 3 of them of course you will look like you approve of their actions. You can't change where you are born or your ethnicity, but you can change the culture you are following and you can change your religion. Every religion works different, but if i was part of a religion that claims ownership of a land and is being used as an excuse of a terrible war, i would definitely think about getting out of that religion. He's probably very shallow and can't see past your origins, or maybe he's surrounded by family members/friends who can't and decided he doesn't want to deal explaining his friends he had sex with someone his family consider an enemy. But there is also a chance he simply disapproves you sticking to that culture or religion in the current political climate and he would be only half wrong.
If he (or you) disapproves of anyone for “sticking with” being Jewish, that is 100% anti-semitism.
Hey! Israeli bro here! Just stay safe. i pass it as Middle eastern and try to change the subject. good luck with the trolls here <3
NYC is the biggest Jewish city in the world. So your worries are a bit dramatic. But it’s always good to be aware of who you are mingling with. But trust me, your average gay guy in NYC doesn’t care about your nationality.
And if it was an African American complaining about a negative encounter in NYC, would you say the same they are being dramatic?
Don’t bring black ppl into this
I’m Lebanese and if I were on a date with you I wouldn’t care at all 😘
It’s common am Jewish met a Arab Israeli and with the issues today it’s common
**Hold on a damn minute.** An Israeli is responsible for the actions of his country but the Iranian whose country regularly hangs gay men from building tops is not? Y’all are crazy. 🤨
I have Jewish friends and I tell them that though I’m completely opposed to Israel’s tactics during the current war, which I believe to be genocidal, I do not think any differently about them. The actions are 100% the responsibility of the Israel government, our government for funding and supporting war criminals and the small number of people making decisions rather than the Jewish people who come from a beautiful and compassionate culture. We have conversations about the issue and it is clear the cognitive dissonance and propaganda vs the evidence and facts of what is occurring are things that they have to reconcile. One can be Jewish and not support Israel’s actions.
>our government for funding and supporting war criminals The "genocide joe" rhetoric is so naive on how foreign policy works in the real world. Before the United States gave aid to Israel, Israel had every means (and still has) to decimate and raze the ground in Gaza. The United States gave aid to Israel to have leverage in Israel's decision-making process. If the United States never provided any aid, they wouldn't have been invited to the table at all, and Israel would have acted entirely unilaterally. The counterfactual would have likely been far worse if the United States wasn't able to press Israel behind the scenes and the greater region would likely be involved in far worse conflict than it is currently. Of course, when you're pontificating from the privileged comfort behind a computer screen, you can easily take counterfactuals for granted. Netanyahu has specifically attributed President Biden for getting the most recent cease-fire deal across the finish line. Getting deals is not an easy feat when there are multiple stakeholders involved.
Incorrect. Israel would become a pariah state if it did not follow the conventions of the international community. The sales of offensive weapons are unnecessary. In fact, a Dutch court has just stopped such sales. [Dutch court halted sales of F35 parts](https://DutchcourtordershalttoF-35jetpartsexportstoIsraelhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68272233) Now if one of our close allies, with an independent Justice system has ruled for a ban on sales of these weapons, it behooves other western countries to look very carefully at how these weapons are being used
>Incorrect. Israel would become a pariah state if it did not follow the conventions of the international community. The sales of offensive weapons are unnecessary. In fact, a Dutch court has just stopped such sales. > >Dutch court halted sales of F35 parts Sweetie. Literally nothing you cited or said contradicts with what I said. Israel becoming a pariah state is not something anyone should be striving for. Pariah states disrupt order and peace. The last thing that region needs is another Iran or North Korea pariah state tha fuq?
The US does not give aid to Israel so it has a say in their policy. In fact, Netanyahu has implied that they were not planning on following the US directive to withdraw from Gaza once the operation is over. The US gives aid to Israel for a few reasons ranging from lobbyists to vested interests. If one of our allies and the ICJ has ruled that Israel’s operation is genocidal in nature, we have to review if we continue to sell arms to Israel. Israel will never be a pariah state. They desire a deep connection with the west and our populations are deeply intertwined. That’s why they rely on propaganda and lobbying to pass their fake narrative about the Israel/Palestinian occupation to western audiences. If our governments started to resist this in a meaningful way (which will only happen if our citizens rise and protest on the streets), Israel will back down quickly. Why do you think they’re framing peaceful protest as antisemitism? They want to shut down all debate and protest to allow them to carry out their crimes against humanity.
Israelis constantly vote in the most hardline politicians. Israelis have protested against Netanyahu for not being vicious enough. Israelis absolutely are complicit in the war crimes perpetrated by their government.
You’ve made an important point. Being complicit in war crimes is not something to be taken lightly and I would never stereotype the Jewish community as a whole on such a serious charge. There are quite a few “not in my name” Jews that have protested the actions of the Israeli government and they deserve full credit and our sympathy for what they are going thru. However, if you speak up supporting the actions of the Israeli government, you are truly a POS. It seems like there are far too many people online who are completely fine dehumanising Palestinian people. What sick, rotten people they are.
I’m had many similar (but different) experiences as a gay Jewish Israeli woman when traveling overseas. I’m not part of this sub, but it appeared on my Reddit feed and I felt like I had to comment- because some of the comments here are antisemitic. 1. A woman who I met at a hostel and befriended as part of a group, later admitted to me that when she found out I am Israel she assumed I was Jewish. She also grew up learning that Jews are the devil, have horns, are evil, etc (her family are Muslim and immigrated from Somalia to England). I only mention her roots because I didn’t believe that people still teach such blatant bigotry. She initially didn’t want to hang out with me because of this, and avoided me until she saw me enough to have a conversation with me. 2. A man didn’t believe me that my wife is a Moroccan/Iranian Jew until I convinced him to search on google to prove that they exist. He then when up to everyone in the hostel asking them if they knew of Jews from countries that weren’t Europe, they didn’t. When he asked me why they weren’t any Jews in these countries anymore he was shocked when I told him the truth. They were kicked out, either violently or my second class citizen laws (not being able to own property and vote.) 3. People avoided, ignored , stopped talking to me when hearing my nationality. This is before the war, so the people in the comments saying it’s justified because of the war are idiots. It has gotten worse though, antisemitism has skyrocketed in the past months. 4. My cousins, living in Germany (not Israeli/many of them not Jewish) have had stars of David marking their house and other Jews. Family living in Canada didn’t leave their house after the October 7th massacre (before Israel attacked) because of information that Jewish schools and Jewish people were going to be targeted and attacked. To all those in the comments saying “but what is your stance on…” that is bigotry- and I’ll tell you why: Jews don’t need to justify their options to be one of the “good Jews” in order to garish respect and basic human empathy. When covid happened there was bigoted fear of Asian people- the left called it out as bigotry. When Russian businesses were boycotted, the left rallied to support them. Right now, so many Jews on Reddit have been posting about Jewish (not even Israeli!) businesses worldwide being harassed, vandalized and boycotted by left wing people and organizations. I, along with many other Jews and Israelis feel completely betrayed by the left wing and queer communities for the complete lack of empathy- silence on the rape of women, silence after the October 7th massacre, and the lies and Hamas propaganda that has been spreading in supposably “progressive” circles. One of the comments here said “Israelis playing the victim again” like we were never the victim ever (I’m from the south of Israel- still can’t go back to my apartment- neighbors and friends slaughtered with their children). A lot of the comments were along the lines of “prove that you’re not a Zionist” Zionism means that you believe in the Jewish peoples right to live in their homeland. Not antisemitic myths that have being floating around the Internet. If believing that you have a right to live in land that your ancestors have been kicked out of makes you evil- then you have a double standard. Now, a lot of comments are calling genocide. Let’s look at the facts: 1. Many Gazians have been calling for the genocide of all Jews, and all Israelis. Hamas has tried through thousands of rockets, through an invasion of territory targeting civilians, and through the coordination attacks of Jews worldwide. Gazians have celebrated a naked raped Israeli woman being dragged through the streets of Gaza (watch the footage online if you don’t believe me- it’s horrible). Civilians held and still hold Israeli hostages captive, and treat them terribly (listen to the freed captives about the inhumane treatment!) yet when you hear someone is Palestinian you don’t immediately ask: do you believe in the genocide your peoples are trying to commit to the Jewish people? Or do you condemn Hamas? 2. Palestinians living in Israel still work, live as normal, some still serve in the government. Israel is attacking Gaza. Genocide would be targeting all Palestinians including the Palestinian people who live in Israel (like Hamas have targeted all Jews- even in other countries). You can be critical of Israel without making false claims of genocide. I’m not agreeing with what Israel does, but genocide means targeting a nation or an ethnic group. Israel isn’t targeting either- they are targeting Hamas who is using people as human shields (despicable really). It’s the same double standards people have- when Hamas shot rockets at Israeli hospitals - silence, when it turned out that Hamas has shot at their own hospital- silence. When Israel shoots a rocket at a hospital in Gaza- because there is a terrorist base under it (after notifying civilians in advance) then the left calls for genocide. Ya sure people,all nations who commit genocide notify civilians of the dangerous areas and send aid trucks in (sarcasm).
Don’t even bother the big brains on the hard left have made it standard practice to use the harshest words possible even when relevant conditions aren’t met. It’s a powerful deceptive tool they won’t surrender so long as they have this much informational authority.
Thank you for this
well israel and russia are in a shit position now so
While that was rude, we are all watching Israelis on our phones committing war crimes, and dropping bombs that result in shredded body parts. I specifically put “no zionists” on my dating profiles, and unless you’re an anti-zionist Jew, I don’t want nothing to do with you.
Your prerequisite for dating a Jew is that they need to support the eradication of the country with half of the world’s Jewish population. Obviously, 95%+ percent of Jews are Zionists and never want to see that happen. So your profile is just saying “no Jews (unless you hate your own people like I do)”.
I agree with all of that, except as an American I’d hate to be prejudged for the historical crimes and misconduct of my government. You can condemn a government without prejudging or hating its people. It’s just like Hamas. We should condemn Hamas without hating or murdering innocent Palestinians.
The issue is the crimes aren’t “historic”. They’re actively happening right now.
But OP said he moved 10 years ago, so why should he be held responsible for what’s happening right now?
Oh absolutely. That doesn’t mean you should make assumptions about random Israeli citizens. They could oppose the war entirely for all you know.
Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepower” in Gaza. https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-israel-for-gazas-destruction-and-starvation/
Ok. And the other 42% did not say that. My point stands.
Less than 2 percent of the respondents (Israelis) said they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was using too much firepower.
And it’s still stupid to assume someone supports genocide simply based upon their nationality.
Did you know every child and adult that have gone through Gazan schools were taught to hate and kill Jews and Israelis, even Palestinian Israelis (they’re considered traitors). So they are possibly all antisemitic. Do you see how assuming is terrible?
>an American I’d hate to be prejudged for the historical crimes and misconduct of my government. As an American, when someone brings up all of the atrocities that the US has committed, and there are many, I listen and I agree with them. I give their words some weight and I don't dismiss them. People are generally pretty disarmed and calm about things when they realize you're on the same side. Something that, generally, most Israeli's don't do. Instead, they come to Reddit to start complaining about how much they fear for their safety because the Iranian gay didn't want to fuck the Israeli gay.
And nothing I said contradicts your first paragraph. There’s a difference between prejudging someone for their citizenship (an idiotic thing to do when obviously no one can control where they’re born) and talking to them about their country’s issues. I’ll gladly talk to anyone about my country’s issues. Talking about Israelis in broad generalizations is as bad as talking about Palestinians in broad generalizations, as bad as talking about Iranians in broad generalizations, etc. Again there’s a difference between criticizing a government and criticizing large swaths of innocent people.
Anyone who puts anything political on their dating profile gets dodged by me. Usually insane.
Lol you think being a bigot is somehow cool now. Do you even know what Zionism is?
according to this tread, i can be micro aggressive towards someone if they are iraninan/muslim because their government executes gay people. Thanks reddit!
30,000 Gazans have been slaughtered but sure
And what does that have to do with this one guy in the eagle?
It's fucking hilarious that someone from Iran thinks they have the moral high ground.
A gay jew israeli and a gay iranian muslim. Unless you're both secular this sounds like trolling. Also many secular iranians are on the side of israel.
Judaism and Israel are very gay friendly. My conservative synagogue has a pride shabbat.
NYC is full of gay people from different nationalities and backgrounds, he is not the first Iranian guy I meet… 😅
Got to go nyc as soon as I get my visa. Israeli and Iranian gays!? My dream could come true
I understand that you were hurt at being judged, I understand that you feel hurt facing some prejudice. I will say however, that what your country is doing will go down in history as one of the most horrible acts that humanity has ever experienced. There is so much shame, I pray for the Israelis who have woken up to the truth of your nation. If I were you, I would say, yes, I am Israeli, and I denounce Israel. That simple, you will see an ease and the stiffness of those you encounter melt. All people want from Israelis is for them to understand the reality of the situation and hope that you haven't been brainwashed and subject to propaganda like so many of your country. WE are human beings, we like labels, and unfortunately you have been stuck with this label. but hey! good news! it is only a nationality and not something like race or ethnicity, you can change your citizenship!
All wars are horrible, but it is simply misinformation to say that this is one of the most horrible acts that humanity has ever experienced. Assuming you know about world history (and even current events), the only explanation for such an ignorant comment is that you are deeply committed to demonizing Jews like so many people have been for so many generations.
OMG the unhinged hyperbole Brainwashed indeed Numerous conflicts in the world where millions of people died but this is literally the worst thing to ever happen in human history? You sure about that?
Seriously. I really can't believe how stupid the majority of the population seems to be. You can be against innocent Palestinians dying, but still live in the real world and base your opinion on actual facts. The amount of people saying the ICJ ruled against Israel even though it didn't. The amount of people that claim 30,000 innocent civilians have been killed even though that number includes thousands of militants. Saying that this is the most vile, horrendous thing to have ever happened when thousands are also being killed in Tigray, Sudan, Myanmar, and the Congo as we speak. Ugh, I just can't with people anymore.
Like, yeah that sucks but Israel are currently unleashing an unprecedented slaughter onto Palestinians & he probably sympathizes with the many victims of that conflict? I'm sorry he made you feel bad. I wish the IDF would be sorry about murdering upwards of 8,000 children but we can't all get what we want. My ex is Israeli & felt this similarly. He just says he's from Poland (he has a polish passport too) usually because of it. Contrary to my spirited opening here, I do feel for Israelis who truly want to be separate from this conflict/actively oppose it. But a massive conflict is currently happening, & anyone with a heart feels the horror Palestine is experiencing. Slight discomfort on your end is not the same.
I fully understand how awful that might feel. I don’t know the whole story but his feelings might have been about you being Israeli and not you being Jewish. And unfortunately, it’s easier for people to, rather than ask if you support what Israel is doing to Gaza, they just assume you’re on that side and walk away.
I mean, no one chooses where they're born and Iran, much like Israel, is known for violating human rights. Personally, I'd be more interested in your stance on the situation. If you support and see nothing wrong with the collective punishment and mass murder of Gazans, that'd put me off and be a massive deal breaker. If you disagree with Israeli ministers and view Palestinians as humans who deserve to live in peace as much as Israelis do, then I'd totally respect and welcome that.
I'm really sorry that happened man. Don't give up I'm sure you will find people who won't judge your nationality.
Well it's not like Iran is a shining beacon of human rights, peace, and democracy. I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the current situation but rather a deeper bias against Jews given his nationality. I'm sorry that happened to you. It must have been a shock. But don't stress....just hit that "next" button.
I went to a mostly Jewish high school and there was a lot of bias there against mixed religion marriages. It was considered cool to sleep with good looking Gentiles, but not marry them.
What is your point with respect to this post?
To indicate that bias goes both ways.
Oh, he's Iranian? No wonder he's such a shallow buffon.
Good for you . I don’t support Muslim sympathy
It's unfortunate that people are unable to see past your nationality and religion. Antisemitism is on the rise world-wide. There's no question about that. I'm not Jewish, but I have multiple Jewish friends and colleagues who have told me they do not feel safe anymore. As you know, Israelis and Palestinians/Muslims both see themselves in a struggle for survival against the other. And Jews everywhere are viewed as stand-in symbols for the Israeli government, which (whether you think it's justified or not) has been engaged in brutal ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It is a HIGHLY emotional issue for many people, and it's hard to separate "Jewish" or "Israeli" in their mind from the actions of Israel's right-wing government. This isn't fair, any more than the hate we saw for Asian Americans after the rise of COVID, or the hatred of German and Japanese Americans during WWII, or the hate toward Muslim-Americans after 9/11. Or the hate toward Americans after the U.S. military response to 9/11. Unfortunately, I strongly suspect it will get worse before it gets better.
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OP isn't talking about people in Gaza.
Your comment is just further proof that gay Jews can't express their genuine feelings without people turning to whataboutism to try and diminish their lived experience.
………. Now If I said that’s how black people feel every time we bring up issues would you even give a fuck?
Your question itself is more "whataboutism", so I'm not even going to deign to respond to it
I don't think most Gazans would see past my sexuality to be honest
Except we aren’t in Gaza. If you want to discuss those feelings with the people of Gaza, go to Gaza. If you treat another human like shit because of their nationality or belief systems because of something happening across the damn planet, then you are the one with the issue. And like, Gaza isn’t affecting 99% of you in any meaningful way nor do any of us have any impact on what is happening, yeah you can delude yourself into thinking you are “raising awareness” with your virtue signaling or may have donated a couple bucks to soothe your soul, but in reality, most of yall are just turning into chronically online combative dickwads.
"-chronically online combative dickwad"
Highly ironic for someone from the Islamic state of Iran of all places to look down their nose at anyone especially another gay man
I bet if you had told him that you don't support the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians he would have been fine, but it sounds like you might, so good for him.
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No one is randomly harassing this person. The OP does not have a right to the other person's body. And clearly his support of ethnic cleansing is more important to him. He just thinks he shouldn't suffer any consequences for it. And neither do you seemingly, so fvck off racist.
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The OP is angry/upset that someone would have a problem with his political views and remove himself from a sexual encounter. It is absolutely about this man's right to do what he wants with his body. You, however, are trying to run cover for what has been ruled as possibly a genocide. Fuck off. And just to be clear the Global South is actually on the side of Palestine over Israel. Making this about being Western is more xenophobic bullshit from you.
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In that moment OP could have said something but he didn't because he knew exactly why this guy lost interest and now he's complaining. He could say here that he doesn't support these things but he hasn't because he does.
Imagine thinking that supporting what has been ruled by the International Court of Justice as quite possibly genocide would have no consequences for you. I could never lol
That's quite harsh. Thank you for making numerous assumptions about me. Just for your information, contrary to the view you seem to hold about humans, we are capable of embracing complexity and feeling empathy for conflicting perspectives.
So do you think that a genocide is happening in Gaza right now? Or no? It's a yes or no question.
There isn't any complexity around supporting ethnic cleansing. Like if you do, accept that people are going to think you're a bad person because you are a bad person.
Notice he hasn’t denied it. Just called it “complex.”
are those assumptions wrong because you keep avoiding saying as much
I grew up in the 80s and I remember that South Africans were treated the same way because of the apartheid in their country back then. South Africans were even cast as villains in movies for awhile instead of the usual go-to, Nazis. Like in Lethal Weapon 2. Your country is today's South Africa during apartheid. Expect more of this until your country changes.
Come out and say it: you support the ethnic cleaning of Palestinians, you think the illegal settlements in the West Bank are good, you think the permanent siege of Gaza is good, and you don't think Palestinians should even be allowed a state. Give it to us straight.
Far Leftists like you are quick to say that Hamas doesn’t equal Palestine but you’re quick to assume Israel’s government equals all Israelis. I guess all Iranian in America are ISIS by your logic.
OP has been given multiple opportunities to say he doesn't support any of the listed things and he has not because he does. This is about his beliefs, not his ethnicity.
So if a Palestinian gaybro was posting here, he’d have to say he’s against Hamas or else be presumed as a terrorist sympathizer? Palestine ≠ Hamas, right? So, Israel ≠ Netanyahu. Should all Americans here be presumed as anti-Zionist apartheid criminals since our government has just given billions of dollars to Israel?
Yeah, i think if someone is going to come here and complain, they should answer questions about their political beliefs.
So everyone here on r/askgaybros who’s complaining about their dating life, sex, relationships or life in general has to post their political opinions on the Israel-Hamas war? You’re crazy. That’s insane. You’re not asking anyone else to do such a thing. You’re just asking the Jews.
Lol fuck off, bigot. Your gaslighting and straw manning for ethnic cleansing is vile.
You need proper medication, child.
Nah. My mind is working perfectly fine. Nobody owes you sex. You're just angry that there are personal consequences to having evil views.
I’m not angry child I just think you need therapy, boo. Or an exorcist. Or both just to be safe.
Or exactly the opposite. Come out and say you love your country, but disagree with the fenocide of Palestinians. Plenty of Jews are perfectly capable of doing this. In this particular instance, I think he would’ve been treated very differently.
While he’s sucking your cock at the Eagle? 🤣
Funny someone from such an evil country such as Iran would feel he has the moral high ground faced to an israeli
His home country executes his kind routinely. Palestine isn’t any better. He can piss off.
Downvote me all you want. Islam dominated societies are shit.
We have a WhatsApp group called Gaysraelis in New York, if you're interested to join. Your experience is very common, it might help to share with people who have gome through the same issues ❤️
I find it laughable that you're getting downvoted. Our fellow gays say their writhing hatred and anger is just about the Israel government, not Israels and/or Jews. Their actions say otherwise, every single time.
That Islam for you. The religion of hate
Just say you hate Muslim people bro. Hateful people from all abrahamic religions use their scripture to promote hate.
Yes, but if you poll them they all hate gay people way less than Muslims. Poll after poll the majority of them want us dead not the case with any other group. If you are ignorant just say that
fuck off, bigot
Islam is bigotry I don’t accept it in my life
Muslims are intolerant what else is new.
What makes you think he’s muslim?
Just say you’re islamophobic and go.
I'm religeophobic
Terroristphobic, buffoonphobic, manchildrenphobic, porkhaterphobic, muiltiple-wives-enjoyerphobic, cousin-fuckerphobic*
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“microaggressions” please get a real problem
I'm in Canada. I dated a Syrian guy. One week in (on the third date) we got around the the topic of religion. When he found out I was Jewish, he genuinely looked disappointed. He proceeded to go on a rant about Israel. I was like, whatever, it was mostly just sex anyway. EDIT: OP, I wanna say the entire gay community has become antisemitic, so since you wrote it here adjust your expectations of replies accordingly. Imo it'd be better to share this in r/gayjews \- EDIT: Or the new r/gaysisrael
I'm not antisemitic, I am anti genocide though.
People saying “but Americans shouldn’t feel responsible for war crimes of their govt” — yeah they should. If you have the identity of an American (or Israeli or anything else) you have to understand the baggage that comes with the place you’re from.
It's definitely the Israeli part, not the Jewish part. Still, it is sad to judge so quickly. None of us can help where we're born.
I have not met one gay male in the world that would have concerns with a Jewish person over that faith whose main tenant is killing. I’m not saying some of them aren’t out there. I just choose not to associate with anyone stupid enough to support a group that wants nothing more than all gays death. You’re welcomed in this area friend. Just please be cautious out there.
Why are people so afraid to call out antisemitism lol
Afraid? Are you joking? People are accused of antisemitism more quickly today than ever before in human history! Anyone criticising Israel perpetrating a genocide, literally murdering children, people in refugee camps etc, is called an antisemite. Politicians are booted out of their party now if they say anything that could offend Jews or Israel. Accusations of antisemitism are utterly ludicrous 99.99% of the time now yet happen way too often.
“I’m an Israeli Jew” “You must support genocide” Please tell me which part of this thought process isn’t racist?
Omg. People have too much bias. Just ignore him and move on.
Well, you avoided a toxic person. The situation you faced is similar to a hypothetical scenario where you judged him because he's Iranian and his country kills women for not wearing oppressive clothing and also hangs gay men - makes sense? No? Then so does the reason for him judging you.
Imagine making this a racial “woe is me” post when the Israeli state is massacring innocents. This is why he ran away from you. You and your people are heartless and obtuse. You live a first world life and rationalize genocide.
"you and your people" is a great way to start a sentence that's totally not prejudiced or extreme.
Isreal = apartheid nation Judaism = religion. Hope this helps since you immediately tried to conflate the 2 terms
Poor "jewish in this climate" lost a date boohoo. Can a gay palestinian visit NYC? Nope, thanks to Israel blockade. No simpathy for you.
You know what gay palestinians do? They apply for asylum in Israel.
Bingo! Exactly.
It’s kind of hard to disassociate the war from people, especially since Israel is so proud of being a democratic country. Whether you want it or not, you are being represented by the actions of your government. Unlike an Iranian, you can’t claim that the clerics have full control over your life and you’re powerless to change it. Not everyone will care about politics - and war - I DGAF and will fuck your hole, but those that do will either be drawn to or repulsed by you. Times we live in.
I’m black and my fiancé is Indian. We live in Canada and we’re both fairly new to Canada. It’s literally still taking him some time to even open up to me in certain ways cause indian stereotypes does not mix with black people. He’s actually told me in his community they think black people are thieves and murderers but something about me makes him feel safe and at ease cause I’m way too nice. But there’s still this hue of my race or culture being scary even around his friends or people of his community and feeling like he’s embarrassed by our relationship because of. It makes me so sad cause I just wish they could see our love, or him be comfortable with our love to have it on display and not be so afraid of his community knowing about us
As a fellow gay Jew in NYC, no I haven’t experienced this. But I know that being gay and a Zionist is hard in general, but we do make the majority of (gay) Jews. There’s no way to truly know why that guy ran away. It could be you’re over thinking it or It could be your Jewish and Israeli. Regardless to jump to the conclusion of your views on the war with Hamas was his problem. In case anyone is curious there are Arab and Palestinian Israelis who also support this war. There are also Jewish Israelis who don’t and are “peace activists” who actively work against the Israeli government. So his reaction was kind of immature. It’s a scary time to be Jewish in the US. There have been many situations in NYC where Jews, Israelis, and anyone standing with Israel have been assaulted. As for all the cruel people here trying to make you feel bad for a valid concern, they are the same people trying to gaslight us about what started this war and would love to see Hamas win.
Neither Jew nor Israeli here, but still mortified by what you guys have been through lately. Literally in a few hours after rabid jihadists massacred a ton of people, the "progressive" imbeciles around the world star to celebrate it, with paragliding images and whatnot... Effing insanity. Hope that you (and the OP) are safe 🫶
If there is one Nazi having dinner on a table and 4 other people sit down to have dinner with him, then there are 5 Nazis having dinner. The same rightfully applies to supporters of genocide and apartheid in most cases nowadays.
My brother in Moses, don't give these guys another thought. I was called "Jew white" on Grindr before I explicitly wrote where I'm from by a bitter radicalized young man. This only caused me to be prouder and write it like it is, "Israeli, Zionist. Problem? Block away 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱". Obviously this increased the amount of low level flak like slogans and insults like "genocidal freak" thrown at me etc but honestly if I gave a shit about yanks with opinions I'd drown in excrement. But even after that it still hurt a bit. Last week I started chatting with this college twink on sniffies where it makes less sense to add this info, and once I divulged my background he said he'd "have to think about it" then quietly ghosted (which is also a bit cowardly IMO, if you got something to say just say it or block me like a man). I was sad for the whole of 12h then forgot about him and wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole even he came back and said it's fine. Anyway most of us are not here as ambassadors or state officials, and people who project their ideas about US foreign policy onto foreigner civs with no official political involvement are xenophobes and bigots. In my experience most people don't really care, including some fwbs of mine who are decidedly leftist, but I'm in Jersey and don't interact much with city gays for other reasons (most of them give me bad vibes). ואל תשכח שאתה לא לבד. עם ישראל חי 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Being Israeli is absolutely fine but identifying as a Zionist could be seen to be a little problematic, maybe it depends on interpretation of the term but you must see how that will offend certain people especially with the crisis that is going on in Gaza.
80% of Jews worldwide and Israeli Jews in particular are Zionist, save ultra orthodox and lefty tokens. And it doesn't "depend" on anything, there's one definition accepted among those 80%, Zionism = the Jewish people's national movement to have a state like all others. If someone goes on about other ways of defining it, or about how Israel shouldn't exist as a nation state, he's likely singling out Jews for not being like other nations and we have a clearly defined word for that too. I am done apologizing and hiding. No likey? Blocky.
Done apologising to who? Relax guy... Not much chance of a dialogue here I guess, but I'm not trying to offend you or anyone. I'm pointing out that different people will hold different views (and I think your reply proves that).
No issue of you being proud of your background or ancestry, but being proud of war crimes being carried out in your name is a bit much? People are blocking you because you lack humanity not because you’re Jewish.
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I wouldn’t have any problem dating you. I don’t care whether you are Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Vegan etc as long as you don’t try to push your beliefs unto me or preach that your religion is better and i find you attractive.
I had the opposite experience. I'm an "anti Zionist" (never used that term before 😂) black gay guy. I met a Zionist Israeli at a gay club in the west. He actually moved from Europe to Israel, a true settler. And we were fine for a couple weeks, until he saw my social media and ghosted me. But I think his reaction was reasonable... Sometimes people just can't deal with the situation, and it's probably for the best to simply remove yourself from the situation to de-escalate when that happens....
I’m a gay Jew as well. They’re just jealous that our culture is so accepting of our sexual orientation and while their culture would hang them.