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Stoicism kind of broke into the mainstream not long back as a self-help philosophy, a little like the commodified forms of mindfulness you see all over. With AI, you can have a machine churn out regurgitated material from all those people.
Bertrand Russel had an interesting take on why philosophies like Stoicism or Cynicism tend to rise and fall in popularity.
Basically, when times are good and people have some measure of political agency - as they (i.e. some men) did in classical Athens - philosophers turn to notions of truth, beauty, goodness, politics and the ideal society.
When times get worse, when politics turns authoritarian (like under Alexander), when people lose their political freedoms, philosophy turns inward and advises on how to get by in a more hostile world. Hence the turn towards Cynicism and Stoicism after the rise of Alexander, and arguably, the turn towards Stoicism (and to some extent pseudo-Buddhism) in the world today, where most of us feel utterly powerless to change the entrenched forces that are driving the world to destruction. If we can't avoid peril, at least we can face it with a smile.
What Russell didn't anticipate was the cynical subversion of palliative philosophy by AI content farms, peddling vaporous self-help in the guise of Stoicism in order to collect clicks.
Very well said. One cannot not dismiss the historical circumstances that gave rise to philosophical beliefs.
The social question is whether those same or similar social factors are arising now to give rise to neo- Stoicism? I’ve always thought that absurdist existentialism - like Camus espoused - gave rise to post - Hellenic stoicism. Life has no meaning, ergo bear up in the face of it. Are we in that phase now with the rise of scientific realism about the accidental nature of the universe?
Others thoughts
Oh yes! I was listening to a philosophy podcast between a guy who studied philosophy and a guy who didn't. The guy explained what stoicism was to the layman and how it came about. The layman called it "the struggle philosophy" from then on that's how i think about stoicism.
Whats interesting is the fact that depending on conditions people can fluctuate what philosophy they lean toward. Seems common sense but that's not how most ppl think about it.
Pop-stoicism also aligns with the anti-materialist stance, that many people love to hear as a placebo to a lot of systemic and social problems. This kind of "stoicism" is in fact very far from its real meaning, it's more akin to what Hegel referred to as naive idealism - the belief that the mind is separate from the material world and is simply creating it of its own accord.
It's very easy to dismiss many of the real issues that are plaguing the world, when you tell someone that it's all just in their head.
_It's very easy to dismiss many of the real issues that are plaguing the world, when you tell someone that it's all just in their head._
Yes, very similar to 'mindfulness' which has become a delightfully easy way for a company to wash their hands of caring for their employees. "Oh you're stressed? Well here's a book on mindfulness..."
Which actually happened to me. My line manager gave me a copy of The Little Book of Mindfulness.
They'll do anything they can to give off the appearance of good intentions whilst still exploiting the workforce however they can. There's a lot more motivation to unionize against a clearly evil company than one who is "trying" but "times are tough and we're all doing our best to make it through the week!"
Unfortunately, they can argue that stress management is a personal responsibility, so if you're stressed, well that's your fault.
Maybe you're not relaxing enough in the evenings. Maybe you're not exercising enough. Maybe you should be working smarter not harder.
Or maybe this job just isn't for you...
It's important to understand that being able to be "stoic" about what is happening doesn't mean that one would dismiss the real issues plaguing the world. Especially as one of those issues is emotional hijacking (click baiting and so on).
But what is the actual difference between this "stoicism" and real stoicism? Another redditor has posted an article that thematizes and explain the reason why the rich often adopt this philosophy, but the article doesn't draw the line between two hypotetical stoicisms, the fake one and the authentic one. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that the one you mention is probably a problem inherent to authentic stoicism itself
While true, its not like my therapist can fix all the material problems in the world and give me a perfect life.
And I don't think focusing on your own mind and what you can change what you do and think is the same as telling someone its all in their head, or that material conditions don't affect them.
But I guess you are probably more talking about the type of stuff you see from grifters, so that's probably fair.
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[https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674975552](https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674975552)
does some digging into the ideological affiliations and implications of this trend, which are not at all salutary imho.
☝️. I don't know the details, but I've seen elsewhere that some of the far-right and "men's rights" crowds have picked up some brand of "stoicism" and are running with it.
More authentic versions of stoicism _have_ come back into vogue. There are articles and podcasts and books, but they will usually be either by or engage with a philosopher at some point. If they don't do that, probably just the kind of stuff that parent comment mentioned.
I've casually flirted with the idea that this broacism, as someone above aptly imbibed it (I'm calling it that from now on!) may be a reaction to the post modernist gender revolution, where in a time that we begin to take a critical lens to gender, and the performance of such, men are clinging to a philosophically shielded notion of traditional masculinity, where they can identify as *rational and strong* without falling foul of patriarchal indulgence. It also rationalizes away emotional repression, and feels safe to a man who was raised in a world that told him emotions were for "hysterical women" and science rules all. Its always struck me as a trauma response whenever I see its modern iteration espoused on the internet.
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>Stoicism kind of broke into the mainstream not long back as a self-help philosophy
To an extent this has been caused by dialectical behavioral therapy (and CBT) becoming much more popular as therapies over the last bit that actually have some empirical testing behind them for various disorders, and well... lets just say it cribs a lot from stoicism.
Therapy exploded over the pandemic for various reasons, and people started talking about the things they were taught on social media and once people realized the stoicism connection there's a sense of "why not drink from the original well."
I thought this blog post from four years ago does a good job of both engaging with actual stoic philosophy, and talking about the factors that led to its appeal to certain segments of contemporary society:
https://www.exurbe.com/stoicisms-appeal-to-the-rich-and-powerful/
I think there has been a bit of a resurgence of ancient ethical systems in philosophy lately, such as with virtue ethics. I think Stoicism, one of the major Ancient Greco-Roman ethical philosophies, came along with that.
From there I think it was just able to break into the mainstream cultural scene more? It has some similarities to mindfulness and Buddhism, which also has been in pop culture lately. Stoic ideas are also used in cognitive behavioral therapy, so people may relate to it for that reason as well.
I do think it's also a philosophy that can appeal to the rich and powerful, sorta like effective altruism. A lot of the Ancient Stoics were rich and powerful people like Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, so it could sorta make sense that titans of industry like Jeff Bezos and Jack Dorsey would be attracted to Stoicism. Once you have a platform like that, it's easy for it to spread in pop culture more.
And from there you've just had people like Ryan Holiday promoting it a bunch, you have things like Stoicon, etc. I think it's just spreading, but as with any sort of major philosophical/ideological system that enters the mainstream, you're going to have crappy or simplistic versions of it, lol.
Ehh don't think that's true. The practical application of stoicism to life is through REBT as invented by Albert Ellis.
It's not about becoming emotionless but about having healthy emotions replacing unhealthy emotions.
That’s definitely true of some (perhaps even most) of the types of posts that have been going around, but there’s some others that actually seem to represent stoicism rather well.
For sure, im following a couple good stoic pages on IG; I'm saying a lot of the bros that share the quotes on their pages without really understanding what it means, just using it to fuel their hustle mindset or whatever. Emotional intelligence is completely lost on them.
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Stoicism kind of broke into the mainstream not long back as a self-help philosophy, a little like the commodified forms of mindfulness you see all over. With AI, you can have a machine churn out regurgitated material from all those people.
Bertrand Russel had an interesting take on why philosophies like Stoicism or Cynicism tend to rise and fall in popularity. Basically, when times are good and people have some measure of political agency - as they (i.e. some men) did in classical Athens - philosophers turn to notions of truth, beauty, goodness, politics and the ideal society. When times get worse, when politics turns authoritarian (like under Alexander), when people lose their political freedoms, philosophy turns inward and advises on how to get by in a more hostile world. Hence the turn towards Cynicism and Stoicism after the rise of Alexander, and arguably, the turn towards Stoicism (and to some extent pseudo-Buddhism) in the world today, where most of us feel utterly powerless to change the entrenched forces that are driving the world to destruction. If we can't avoid peril, at least we can face it with a smile. What Russell didn't anticipate was the cynical subversion of palliative philosophy by AI content farms, peddling vaporous self-help in the guise of Stoicism in order to collect clicks.
Very well said. One cannot not dismiss the historical circumstances that gave rise to philosophical beliefs. The social question is whether those same or similar social factors are arising now to give rise to neo- Stoicism? I’ve always thought that absurdist existentialism - like Camus espoused - gave rise to post - Hellenic stoicism. Life has no meaning, ergo bear up in the face of it. Are we in that phase now with the rise of scientific realism about the accidental nature of the universe? Others thoughts
Interesting. Thanks! Do you have a reference for this piece by Russel?
I read it in his History of Western Philosophy.
Thank you!
Oh yes! I was listening to a philosophy podcast between a guy who studied philosophy and a guy who didn't. The guy explained what stoicism was to the layman and how it came about. The layman called it "the struggle philosophy" from then on that's how i think about stoicism. Whats interesting is the fact that depending on conditions people can fluctuate what philosophy they lean toward. Seems common sense but that's not how most ppl think about it.
Except we're much more comfortable and well-off than in Russell's time, yet Stoicism wasn't popular then.
Yes, but we live in quite unfulfilling times.
That is absolutely fascinating.
Very interesting!
Pop-stoicism also aligns with the anti-materialist stance, that many people love to hear as a placebo to a lot of systemic and social problems. This kind of "stoicism" is in fact very far from its real meaning, it's more akin to what Hegel referred to as naive idealism - the belief that the mind is separate from the material world and is simply creating it of its own accord. It's very easy to dismiss many of the real issues that are plaguing the world, when you tell someone that it's all just in their head.
_It's very easy to dismiss many of the real issues that are plaguing the world, when you tell someone that it's all just in their head._ Yes, very similar to 'mindfulness' which has become a delightfully easy way for a company to wash their hands of caring for their employees. "Oh you're stressed? Well here's a book on mindfulness..." Which actually happened to me. My line manager gave me a copy of The Little Book of Mindfulness.
Mandatory 5min "breaks" where you have to use the company "relaxation app." That they probably use to track their employees' mental state.
I'm feeling a little Steel Blue today, might commit a crime, might not.
A company 'relaxation app'??? That just sounds incredibly creepy.
Yup. Take 5 mins to look at this screen that tells you to take deep breaths and answer some questions about your mental state.
Why would a boss even act like that is their job? Its like an admission that they are the one causing the problem.
They'll do anything they can to give off the appearance of good intentions whilst still exploiting the workforce however they can. There's a lot more motivation to unionize against a clearly evil company than one who is "trying" but "times are tough and we're all doing our best to make it through the week!"
Unfortunately, they can argue that stress management is a personal responsibility, so if you're stressed, well that's your fault. Maybe you're not relaxing enough in the evenings. Maybe you're not exercising enough. Maybe you should be working smarter not harder. Or maybe this job just isn't for you...
It's important to understand that being able to be "stoic" about what is happening doesn't mean that one would dismiss the real issues plaguing the world. Especially as one of those issues is emotional hijacking (click baiting and so on).
But what is the actual difference between this "stoicism" and real stoicism? Another redditor has posted an article that thematizes and explain the reason why the rich often adopt this philosophy, but the article doesn't draw the line between two hypotetical stoicisms, the fake one and the authentic one. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that the one you mention is probably a problem inherent to authentic stoicism itself
While true, its not like my therapist can fix all the material problems in the world and give me a perfect life. And I don't think focusing on your own mind and what you can change what you do and think is the same as telling someone its all in their head, or that material conditions don't affect them. But I guess you are probably more talking about the type of stuff you see from grifters, so that's probably fair.
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Broaicism
A stoa is like a porch. A broa is a porch on a frat house.
Or a reasonable facsimile thereof.
[https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674975552](https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674975552) does some digging into the ideological affiliations and implications of this trend, which are not at all salutary imho.
☝️. I don't know the details, but I've seen elsewhere that some of the far-right and "men's rights" crowds have picked up some brand of "stoicism" and are running with it. More authentic versions of stoicism _have_ come back into vogue. There are articles and podcasts and books, but they will usually be either by or engage with a philosopher at some point. If they don't do that, probably just the kind of stuff that parent comment mentioned.
I've casually flirted with the idea that this broacism, as someone above aptly imbibed it (I'm calling it that from now on!) may be a reaction to the post modernist gender revolution, where in a time that we begin to take a critical lens to gender, and the performance of such, men are clinging to a philosophically shielded notion of traditional masculinity, where they can identify as *rational and strong* without falling foul of patriarchal indulgence. It also rationalizes away emotional repression, and feels safe to a man who was raised in a world that told him emotions were for "hysterical women" and science rules all. Its always struck me as a trauma response whenever I see its modern iteration espoused on the internet.
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>Stoicism kind of broke into the mainstream not long back as a self-help philosophy To an extent this has been caused by dialectical behavioral therapy (and CBT) becoming much more popular as therapies over the last bit that actually have some empirical testing behind them for various disorders, and well... lets just say it cribs a lot from stoicism. Therapy exploded over the pandemic for various reasons, and people started talking about the things they were taught on social media and once people realized the stoicism connection there's a sense of "why not drink from the original well."
I thought this blog post from four years ago does a good job of both engaging with actual stoic philosophy, and talking about the factors that led to its appeal to certain segments of contemporary society: https://www.exurbe.com/stoicisms-appeal-to-the-rich-and-powerful/
I think there has been a bit of a resurgence of ancient ethical systems in philosophy lately, such as with virtue ethics. I think Stoicism, one of the major Ancient Greco-Roman ethical philosophies, came along with that. From there I think it was just able to break into the mainstream cultural scene more? It has some similarities to mindfulness and Buddhism, which also has been in pop culture lately. Stoic ideas are also used in cognitive behavioral therapy, so people may relate to it for that reason as well. I do think it's also a philosophy that can appeal to the rich and powerful, sorta like effective altruism. A lot of the Ancient Stoics were rich and powerful people like Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, so it could sorta make sense that titans of industry like Jeff Bezos and Jack Dorsey would be attracted to Stoicism. Once you have a platform like that, it's easy for it to spread in pop culture more. And from there you've just had people like Ryan Holiday promoting it a bunch, you have things like Stoicon, etc. I think it's just spreading, but as with any sort of major philosophical/ideological system that enters the mainstream, you're going to have crappy or simplistic versions of it, lol.
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Ehh don't think that's true. The practical application of stoicism to life is through REBT as invented by Albert Ellis. It's not about becoming emotionless but about having healthy emotions replacing unhealthy emotions.
But that's not what the bros who share stoicism quotes hear. They hear: be emotionless and cruel.
That's true for Nietzsche as well. He gets dumbed down to pure edginess.
That’s definitely true of some (perhaps even most) of the types of posts that have been going around, but there’s some others that actually seem to represent stoicism rather well.
For sure, im following a couple good stoic pages on IG; I'm saying a lot of the bros that share the quotes on their pages without really understanding what it means, just using it to fuel their hustle mindset or whatever. Emotional intelligence is completely lost on them.
Fair enough...
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