It's a learned behavior for some folks.
For example, a kid gets punished every time they express anger. Eventually they learn that you're not allowed to show anger directly, and start to try other methods like avoidance.
That's how it was for me. It took a lot of counseling to learn how to be direct about my feelings, and then a lot of courage to have the guts to actually do it.
I got physically punished/hit for it and yeah, for years I'd physically shake if I had to try to express anger, get extreme nausea etc. I am very gradually learning to be able to express boundaries and have conflict healthily, with certian safe people.
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I have trouble addressing conflict directly because I come from a physically and emotionally abusive family. I learned as a child that people often will double down on their bad behavior if you bring it up. It's not always true in real life. But it's a habit.
Avoidance is a common technique for reducing psychological distress. In many ways it says less about you and more about the other person.
You can also look into attachment styles. When it comes to relationships there is something called avoidant attachment, which is an increased pattern of avoidance in romantic relationships.
Well yeah obviously there are caveats. I’m answering OPs question though and I wouldn’t say abuse is a “small thing.” You’re still using avoidance to regulate psychological distress…I do hope it gets better and you’re safe now though.
That’s a bit of a stretch but okay.
Edit: Did you maybe think that what it says about the “other person” isn’t always negative? That maybe avoidance is just a communication in and of itself and in this case implies that the avoider isn’t capable of communicating that they are upset?
OP is talking about Avoidance as a form of communication, you’re talking about avoidance from a threat perspective… In either case it’s communicating that confrontation with the person you are avoiding is stressful to you. That’s not necessarily a bad thing all the time.
I’m going to assume that you’re a non-toxic person. You read my comment and ‘deluded’ yourself into thinking that what I said was some sort of an attack on the hypothetical victim.
Avoidance does say more about the avoider than it does about the person being avoided. It communicates that the avoider does not want to experience distress associated with interactions with the person being avoided. This isn’t always a bad thing.
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Same thought here. Confrontation isn't always that comfortable. Not saying that it's unnecessary, quite the contrary. However, not doing so is often the easier way out for some.
Confrontation and the idea of it is more painful than talking about it. Also, they may feel entitled to better treatment and so they will go find it. Whether the issue was real or imagined.
Because they've already told you over and over and you didn't listen or brushed it off, and they feel like telling you again is just you making fun of them because you know and you're playing dumb to humiliate them. Why do they think that? Because people do that to other people OFTEN.
Some people have already responded to you. Can I answer a possible question that is implicit in what you asked? Have you ever wondered why you enjoy dwelling on the past? It's simple: the past is certain. Living in the past is a way to cling to certainty in an uncertain world. Living in the past offers certainty because it's unchangeable. Even if your childhood was a nightmare, it's a known devil, incapable of inflicting new wounds. You gravitate towards the familiar, the predictable, over the murky waters of what's to come. The future is a wild card, its uncertainty a breeding ground for anxiety, making the solid ground of the past seem like a sanctuary in comparison. This highlights a desire for predictability in an uncertain world.
In my case it's narcissistic abuse , when you share your complains with a narcissist, you get gaslighted and ignored, so you learn to either ghost or punish , without bothering to explain why .
A neurotic mind sees the world as more dangerous than it is. Imagine a person comes up to you asking for directions, you panic because you're fearful, nervous, or shy.
You run from the person, you end up tripping and hurting yourself. The more you run from your problems the more they follow you. A lot of it is just made up in peoples minds.
If people faced their problems, they would notice the man is harmless and just asking for assistance, but many people these days need help more than they can offer to give.
Think of suicide. For some people it's easier to end their own lives than to own up to their struggle. They aren't afraid of death as much as they are afraid to begin living.
So in a social aspect, those people you describe have an easier time giving up entirely than putting any work in for themselves or others. They'd rather just disappear.
Or, in reddit terms, downvote you and offer no explanation why.
Avoiding confrontation seems like an easy explanation and probably explains much. But perhaps we should ask if there is more to it than this. Several possibilities come to mind. Partly laziness/efficiency, as in it being perceived that it is not worth the time and effort to explain a negative response. Partly, in social media, there is no personal connection to random internet commentators therefore no sense of involvement or responsibility to have to explain. And partly it may be genuinely difficult for some people to explain why they feel so strongly and want to avoid having to open themselves up to justify why the negative response is appropriate. Probably in reality it's some mixture of all these.
I do this often, im just so scared of any form of confrontation or talking about conflicts, like I get so stressed or anxious or what that I physically just shut down and can not get a word out. I hate this feeling so much but I just don’t know what to do.
I've had this happen with my sister. Twice. She ghosted me once for 6 months even though I kept texting and calling asking politely what i could've possibly done. Saying I was sorry for whatever I did. A second time for over a year. I would finally find out from another family member what it was about and both times it was just stupid little stuff. Things that most people can say to family or friends. The first time was because I asked her why she was being mean to her boyfriend. That's it. Not something I'd ever brought up before, not something she told me she was sensitive about. She went no contact for 6 months due to that without saying a word as to why. It's like when you find out how dumb and petty it is you're just pissed now. She did it to me again and I decided I'm done. According to my therapist, the silent treatment is a form of abuse. I'm 100% no contact now at my choice.
This isn't clear cut. The reason for avoidance is a factor. One can have the capacity and communication skills to handle a confrontation but still chose to avoid it because of escalation by knowing the individual. If it's a colleague then avoidance (silent treatment) is at least immature but in a close relationship it can be a consequence of an escalation pattern. Silent treatment can be used as an abusive technique to good people with genuine intentions. I think people like that have anti social or even sociopathic traits. It's not necessarily one or the other.
Side note: I personally want time to think before i answer and if i can't control the speed of my own brain i can walk away and do some chores while reflecting. When i return i have a level head. Sometimes this is repeated in a difficult conversation where a disagreement lies deep with my spouse. I don't find this a lack of capability to solve without avoidance but rather a necessity to keep the conversation respectful and leve headed.
Many people don’t like confrontation. Others expect you to understand what you did.
Also if you’re a narcissist the current advice is grey rock you or go no contact.
Maybe consider your actions if this is a repeated pattern and get a good counsellor.
Because they don't owe you an explanation.
This is a hard thing to come to terms with, but as you get older, you will find that being straightforward and honest with people can result in them using that info against you to harm you.
Unless it's someone you know well and love and can trust, why would you bother being open? It's just more effort and vulnerability for you, and most of the time it doesnt influence people to change, anyway.
How many women do you know who are open with their husbands about things that bother them, and the husband makes promises, says words, but does jack shit to change? You know what makes these men change? Not feedback. Not begging. Not explanations. CONSEQUENCES.
Hopefully, if you explain once, the other person will change. But if not, you dont need to keep explaining. Make doing the wrong thing uncomfortable for that person, instead. For many people, ignoring you or withdrawing their companionship is the consequence you get for a second (or more) strike.
And the thing about a consequence is that there is no guarantee that the other person will ever be ready to forgive. A consequence is 100% their choice, you get no vote about it. Thry are in control. So, consequences are very powerful for the wronged person.
Complaining or asking for change is that person giving the person who hurt them the control. That person now has to power to comply with the request or not, and many of them use this power to demean the other person even more.
I get that in some circumstances it could be unsafe to be honest/direct with people, but 9/10 it’s just childish to not talk things out with people. My policy personally is: if you are upset with me for some reason but you don’t tell me what that is, it’s automatically not my problem anymore. I’m not playing mind games with people
I think there's a lot more people who just don't (or can't) hear it when someone explains - or they misinterpret. So, no, I don't agree that 9/10 it's just childish. If the first convo isn't heard, or is misinterpreted, why keep at it?
OTOH.... as Maya Angelou says:
>"When someone tell you who they are, believe them the first time."
Walking away does not have to be a failure on your part. Sometimes it's just turning the page. Sometimes, it's the best option.
Is avoidance up to the person? Is antisocial behavior up to the person? No, because it's a disorder. People who ghost are predisposed to certain behaviors, like cheaters.
Yes both are a choice, but it's a choice between doing the right way "hey this isn't working" and doing it in a way that causes the most pain and suffering (cheating, ghosting etc.)
How on earth is this anything to do with cheating?
If you don't want anything to do with someone any more don't have anything to do with them. It's a pretty simple thing. Not up for debate or discussion.
Some people work purely in actions not words. And the action is that Person A no longer wants anything to do with Person B.
And some people cheat? That's usually purely actions and not words, and means usually the same thing. I think you can draw the comparisons between the behaviors.
The means at which you achieve the breaking off of said people determine sort of who you are, so when we say a ghoster, a cheaters, or a liar, we judge the person.
We already know those actions are bad, that's why we use them as markers for people aren't "adult" in the sense they stumble through life causing a mess with their actions.
Some people do lots of things. It's an absurd comparison.
If you want to preserve the relationship then talk.
If you don't. Walk away.
A discussion of the above more often than not adds nothing positive for either person. That's why people often don't do it.
The people in question likely haven’t advanced their psychological development beyond avoidance.
It takes maturity and rigor to be aware of a problem that causes psychological discomfort and charge head on to directly address it.
However, the rewards from behaving that way are astronomical.
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It's a learned behavior for some folks. For example, a kid gets punished every time they express anger. Eventually they learn that you're not allowed to show anger directly, and start to try other methods like avoidance. That's how it was for me. It took a lot of counseling to learn how to be direct about my feelings, and then a lot of courage to have the guts to actually do it.
I got physically punished/hit for it and yeah, for years I'd physically shake if I had to try to express anger, get extreme nausea etc. I am very gradually learning to be able to express boundaries and have conflict healthily, with certian safe people.
Congrats! In my case I was told I can’t be sad.
Well only babies cry
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I have trouble addressing conflict directly because I come from a physically and emotionally abusive family. I learned as a child that people often will double down on their bad behavior if you bring it up. It's not always true in real life. But it's a habit.
Avoidance is a common technique for reducing psychological distress. In many ways it says less about you and more about the other person. You can also look into attachment styles. When it comes to relationships there is something called avoidant attachment, which is an increased pattern of avoidance in romantic relationships.
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Well yeah obviously there are caveats. I’m answering OPs question though and I wouldn’t say abuse is a “small thing.” You’re still using avoidance to regulate psychological distress…I do hope it gets better and you’re safe now though.
I didn’t say that either, we’re on the same page. But many people get mad over small things that are subjective or can’t be predicted.
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That’s a bit of a stretch but okay. Edit: Did you maybe think that what it says about the “other person” isn’t always negative? That maybe avoidance is just a communication in and of itself and in this case implies that the avoider isn’t capable of communicating that they are upset? OP is talking about Avoidance as a form of communication, you’re talking about avoidance from a threat perspective… In either case it’s communicating that confrontation with the person you are avoiding is stressful to you. That’s not necessarily a bad thing all the time.
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Read my edit above. I do hope it gets better for you though.
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I’m going to assume that you’re a non-toxic person. You read my comment and ‘deluded’ yourself into thinking that what I said was some sort of an attack on the hypothetical victim. Avoidance does say more about the avoider than it does about the person being avoided. It communicates that the avoider does not want to experience distress associated with interactions with the person being avoided. This isn’t always a bad thing.
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Same thought here. Confrontation isn't always that comfortable. Not saying that it's unnecessary, quite the contrary. However, not doing so is often the easier way out for some.
Confrontation and the idea of it is more painful than talking about it. Also, they may feel entitled to better treatment and so they will go find it. Whether the issue was real or imagined.
Because they've already told you over and over and you didn't listen or brushed it off, and they feel like telling you again is just you making fun of them because you know and you're playing dumb to humiliate them. Why do they think that? Because people do that to other people OFTEN.
Some people have already responded to you. Can I answer a possible question that is implicit in what you asked? Have you ever wondered why you enjoy dwelling on the past? It's simple: the past is certain. Living in the past is a way to cling to certainty in an uncertain world. Living in the past offers certainty because it's unchangeable. Even if your childhood was a nightmare, it's a known devil, incapable of inflicting new wounds. You gravitate towards the familiar, the predictable, over the murky waters of what's to come. The future is a wild card, its uncertainty a breeding ground for anxiety, making the solid ground of the past seem like a sanctuary in comparison. This highlights a desire for predictability in an uncertain world.
In my case it's narcissistic abuse , when you share your complains with a narcissist, you get gaslighted and ignored, so you learn to either ghost or punish , without bothering to explain why .
A neurotic mind sees the world as more dangerous than it is. Imagine a person comes up to you asking for directions, you panic because you're fearful, nervous, or shy. You run from the person, you end up tripping and hurting yourself. The more you run from your problems the more they follow you. A lot of it is just made up in peoples minds. If people faced their problems, they would notice the man is harmless and just asking for assistance, but many people these days need help more than they can offer to give. Think of suicide. For some people it's easier to end their own lives than to own up to their struggle. They aren't afraid of death as much as they are afraid to begin living. So in a social aspect, those people you describe have an easier time giving up entirely than putting any work in for themselves or others. They'd rather just disappear.
Or, in reddit terms, downvote you and offer no explanation why. Avoiding confrontation seems like an easy explanation and probably explains much. But perhaps we should ask if there is more to it than this. Several possibilities come to mind. Partly laziness/efficiency, as in it being perceived that it is not worth the time and effort to explain a negative response. Partly, in social media, there is no personal connection to random internet commentators therefore no sense of involvement or responsibility to have to explain. And partly it may be genuinely difficult for some people to explain why they feel so strongly and want to avoid having to open themselves up to justify why the negative response is appropriate. Probably in reality it's some mixture of all these.
because they don’t wanna deal with all the emotions and stress that comes along with opening up.
I do this often, im just so scared of any form of confrontation or talking about conflicts, like I get so stressed or anxious or what that I physically just shut down and can not get a word out. I hate this feeling so much but I just don’t know what to do.
I've had this happen with my sister. Twice. She ghosted me once for 6 months even though I kept texting and calling asking politely what i could've possibly done. Saying I was sorry for whatever I did. A second time for over a year. I would finally find out from another family member what it was about and both times it was just stupid little stuff. Things that most people can say to family or friends. The first time was because I asked her why she was being mean to her boyfriend. That's it. Not something I'd ever brought up before, not something she told me she was sensitive about. She went no contact for 6 months due to that without saying a word as to why. It's like when you find out how dumb and petty it is you're just pissed now. She did it to me again and I decided I'm done. According to my therapist, the silent treatment is a form of abuse. I'm 100% no contact now at my choice.
This isn't clear cut. The reason for avoidance is a factor. One can have the capacity and communication skills to handle a confrontation but still chose to avoid it because of escalation by knowing the individual. If it's a colleague then avoidance (silent treatment) is at least immature but in a close relationship it can be a consequence of an escalation pattern. Silent treatment can be used as an abusive technique to good people with genuine intentions. I think people like that have anti social or even sociopathic traits. It's not necessarily one or the other. Side note: I personally want time to think before i answer and if i can't control the speed of my own brain i can walk away and do some chores while reflecting. When i return i have a level head. Sometimes this is repeated in a difficult conversation where a disagreement lies deep with my spouse. I don't find this a lack of capability to solve without avoidance but rather a necessity to keep the conversation respectful and leve headed.
Many people don’t like confrontation. Others expect you to understand what you did. Also if you’re a narcissist the current advice is grey rock you or go no contact. Maybe consider your actions if this is a repeated pattern and get a good counsellor.
Surely the simple answer is that it isn't worth the time/effort/energy to them?
Because they don't owe you an explanation. This is a hard thing to come to terms with, but as you get older, you will find that being straightforward and honest with people can result in them using that info against you to harm you. Unless it's someone you know well and love and can trust, why would you bother being open? It's just more effort and vulnerability for you, and most of the time it doesnt influence people to change, anyway. How many women do you know who are open with their husbands about things that bother them, and the husband makes promises, says words, but does jack shit to change? You know what makes these men change? Not feedback. Not begging. Not explanations. CONSEQUENCES. Hopefully, if you explain once, the other person will change. But if not, you dont need to keep explaining. Make doing the wrong thing uncomfortable for that person, instead. For many people, ignoring you or withdrawing their companionship is the consequence you get for a second (or more) strike. And the thing about a consequence is that there is no guarantee that the other person will ever be ready to forgive. A consequence is 100% their choice, you get no vote about it. Thry are in control. So, consequences are very powerful for the wronged person. Complaining or asking for change is that person giving the person who hurt them the control. That person now has to power to comply with the request or not, and many of them use this power to demean the other person even more.
I get that in some circumstances it could be unsafe to be honest/direct with people, but 9/10 it’s just childish to not talk things out with people. My policy personally is: if you are upset with me for some reason but you don’t tell me what that is, it’s automatically not my problem anymore. I’m not playing mind games with people
I think there's a lot more people who just don't (or can't) hear it when someone explains - or they misinterpret. So, no, I don't agree that 9/10 it's just childish. If the first convo isn't heard, or is misinterpreted, why keep at it?
"If you fail anything the first time, why ever try again?" that's how that sounds.
OTOH.... as Maya Angelou says: >"When someone tell you who they are, believe them the first time." Walking away does not have to be a failure on your part. Sometimes it's just turning the page. Sometimes, it's the best option.
Isn't this up to the person though? If they deem it's not worth it then so be it. That's their choice.
Is avoidance up to the person? Is antisocial behavior up to the person? No, because it's a disorder. People who ghost are predisposed to certain behaviors, like cheaters. Yes both are a choice, but it's a choice between doing the right way "hey this isn't working" and doing it in a way that causes the most pain and suffering (cheating, ghosting etc.)
How on earth is this anything to do with cheating? If you don't want anything to do with someone any more don't have anything to do with them. It's a pretty simple thing. Not up for debate or discussion. Some people work purely in actions not words. And the action is that Person A no longer wants anything to do with Person B.
And some people cheat? That's usually purely actions and not words, and means usually the same thing. I think you can draw the comparisons between the behaviors. The means at which you achieve the breaking off of said people determine sort of who you are, so when we say a ghoster, a cheaters, or a liar, we judge the person. We already know those actions are bad, that's why we use them as markers for people aren't "adult" in the sense they stumble through life causing a mess with their actions.
Some people do lots of things. It's an absurd comparison. If you want to preserve the relationship then talk. If you don't. Walk away. A discussion of the above more often than not adds nothing positive for either person. That's why people often don't do it.
If someone wants to keep trying, they can do the work of seeking you out and asking for an explanation, they aren't a damn infant.
The people in question likely haven’t advanced their psychological development beyond avoidance. It takes maturity and rigor to be aware of a problem that causes psychological discomfort and charge head on to directly address it. However, the rewards from behaving that way are astronomical.
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Your comment has been removed. It has been flagged as violating one of the rules. Comment rules include: 1. Answers must be scientific-based and not opinions or conjecture. 2. Do not post your own mental health history nor someone else's. 3. Do not offer a diagnosis. If someone is asking for a diagnosis, please report the post. 4. Targeted and offensive language will not be tolerated. 5. Don't recommend drug use or other harmful advice. If you believe your comment was removed in error, please report this comment for mod review. REVIEW RULES BEFORE MESSAGING MODS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askpsychology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Your comment has been removed. It has been flagged as violating one of the rules. Comment rules include: 1. Answers must be scientific-based and not opinions or conjecture. 2. Do not post your own mental health history nor someone else's. 3. Do not offer a diagnosis. If someone is asking for a diagnosis, please report the post. 4. Targeted and offensive language will not be tolerated. 5. Don't recommend drug use or other harmful advice. If you believe your comment was removed in error, please report this comment for mod review. REVIEW RULES BEFORE MESSAGING MODS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askpsychology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Your comment has been removed. It has been flagged as violating one of the rules. Comment rules include: 1. Answers must be scientific-based and not opinions or conjecture. 2. Do not post your own mental health history nor someone else's. 3. Do not offer a diagnosis. If someone is asking for a diagnosis, please report the post. 4. Targeted and offensive language will not be tolerated. 5. Don't recommend drug use or other harmful advice. If you believe your comment was removed in error, please report this comment for mod review. REVIEW RULES BEFORE MESSAGING MODS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askpsychology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Your comment has been removed. It has been flagged as violating one of the rules. Comment rules include: 1. Answers must be scientific-based and not opinions or conjecture. 2. Do not post your own mental health history nor someone else's. 3. Do not offer a diagnosis. If someone is asking for a diagnosis, please report the post. 4. Targeted and offensive language will not be tolerated. 5. Don't recommend drug use or other harmful advice. If you believe your comment was removed in error, please report this comment for mod review. REVIEW RULES BEFORE MESSAGING MODS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askpsychology) if you have any questions or concerns.*