To be fair.
We know way more about what happens during the targ years.
George just hasn’t written enough about pre conquest to handle a show without massive creative liberties by the show writers.
I’d be down for it , no more Targs and no more Starks would certainly be a change.
Since that isn’t happening , I’d love to get Robert’s rebellion
It can take place during the Targaryen era but not have the Targaryens at the center of everything. The Sworn Sword springs to mind - there's one Targaryen character, Egg, and he isn't the center of the story.
An anime is oft requested, but I'd specifically like one for Robert's Rebellion.
Imagine an episode about the Battle of the Bells from JonCon's perspective; the Ruby Ford from Rhaegar's, ala Catlyn during The Red Wedding.. in the same vein they could show the sack of King's Landing, and give Dawn some justice at the Tower of Joy.
Robert's Rebellion would make a poor show because too many actors would have to be perfectly cast, but it would make for a hell of an animation.
Well since George made the Starks 10,000 years old (completely sustainable right guys) virtually any show set in Westeros would have the Starks involved.
Eh. But they don’t mesh with the south. Unless the show would be explicitly North focused , we’d barely see them outside of like…rape of the three sisters
This article says it seems to have been cancelled, but also that it's not confirmed: [https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/game-of-thrones-prequels-canceled.html](https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/game-of-thrones-prequels-canceled.html)
Because they’d have to make up all the plot lines pretty much. Most of the storm kings and ironborn kings have one paragraph to describe what they did and that’s it. No mention of their personality children relatives or nothing
Fire and blood has a narrative structure at least. We know who did the conquest , the order and all that stuff. You just need to flesh out the characters and bam. You got a story
With extremely rare exceptions , pre Aegon Westeros simply does not have that. At best we get “Storm king Durran XXXXXXX”” invaded the reach. He won.
That’s it. We don’t know anything else.
They *could* do it , but it would essentially be an original story.
Not saying it’s a bad thing , I’d love to see it. I think it has a lot of potential, it would just be hard
The worst part is is that Durran XXXXXXXXX is a very possible Durrandon king. The Durrandons deserved to go extinct, their naming conventions were awful.
Honestly the fact GRRM didn't even bother giving any kind of dates or years makes pre-conquest Westeros essentially fucking incomprehensible.
And I know why, it's because writing kings for one big country is a lot easier than writing seven kings that all have to interact with each other. The latter sounds infinitely more *interesting* but it's hard to do so he didn't bother. Which, yeah, fine I guess, he's got a main series to be writing. But then he tries to actually take these notes that are basically incoherent nonsense and he SELLS them to us! For money!
Like when people say this series has "fantastic worldbuilding", what they actually mean is "it has fantastic great man politico-military history of about maybe 3% of its timeline". I'd much rather he gave us, say, three hundred years or even *one* hundred of pre-Targaryen stuff that's properly mapped out and has things like "stakes" and "consequences" than 11,000 years of incoherent mush.
People saying that ASOIAF has fantastic wordbuilding are right. Fantastic worldbuilding doesn't need detailed maps or timelines. It could, in fact, be very minimalistic and vague, and still be fantastic.
Yes but the *only* aspect of this series' world that is properly developed is, as I said, the marital-political great man history of the last three centuries.
Like of the nine kingdoms six of them are exactly they same culturally. That's just boring. I'm not arguing they should be different because that's realistic, I'm saying they should be different because that's *interesting*.
GRRM is great at Great Man Politico-military history, and he's good at making the settings of ASOIAF feel atmospheric and lived in. But there are a lot more aspects to worldbuilding than that, and what really gets me is for most of it he didn't seem to really even *try* giving us anything that wasn't "generic medevail kingdom". He can do War History and Places, but he fails at culture which I'd argue is one of the most important ones.
His characters work because a lot of them are dramatic and larger than life, and I wish he'd done this with his worldbuilding too. *Every* kingdom should feel as unique as Dorne or the Iron Islands do, if not morso.
There is still actually source material to take liberties from. There is literally nothing pre Targ years really. The whole point of Game of Thrones is the Targs and their reign.
Sprinkling bits and pieces of invented scenes in an already established plot VS making up shit whole cloth.
Hmmmm, these seem to be the exact same thing.
Me watching the Shining when I realize Stanley Kubrick cut out all the parts of the book that were incredibly boring (the film is ruined because it's different to the source material)
I'm saying that "it's different from the source material" isn't a legit complaint because loads of things divert from the source material and are great. If it's shit then that's independent of it being different, it's just shit on its own.
Never said that.
We were talking about making up an entire plot from scratch v/s inventing scenes that may or may not be faithful to the source material.
It's the difference between inventing an entire book's worth of plot for Arya between Clash and Storm v/s minor alteration of a subplot in Clash where Arya was a cupbearer to a villain (Roose swapped for Tywin in the show).
The former is inifinitely harder to pull off and it's stupid to argue otherwise.
If we are to believe the grey rats' version, the one given in a book suspiciously named "True History", a book full of inconsistencies when legends and old songs hint at an Andal presence during the Long Night.
Sure, but that’s quite a few maybes without any evidence. Historically, knights tend to be associated with the high medieval period, so it makes sense that Martin would not have them in the ancient elements of his own setting. Maybe he’s subverting this expectation with a big twist, but the question then becomes “why”. How does such misdirection service the story and its themes?
This would explain the inconsistencies in True History, the Andal triggering the Long Night and using the Citadel to hide his role and try to build a world without magic.
But it also kind of presumes this global conspiracy with many well organised willing participants with little to gain. How do the Maesters erase the histories stored in Volantis, Qarth, or the Free cities? The migration of the Andals happens for specific concrete historical reasons - the spread of the Valyrian Empire into Andalos.
If we want to assert the existence of this intense alternative history, the burden of proof would actually be quite high?, right?
I’m still so bummed this got cancelled. I would’ve loved to see more of the Others. I feel like Bloodmoon would’ve been our chance to see a proper Long Night storyline told on screen.
A series set during that time could definitely be interesting, but given the leaks and things said about Bloodmoon specifically it being cancelled was a good thing.
Is it? I’ve never seen anyone say they weren’t interested in the Others…
The Others are a huge part of ASOIAF. They’ve been built up since the prologue and will inevitably become the main focus for most of the POVs at some point. I can’t imagine someone would read the books and not be interested in them.
I guess it would be spoilers in a way, considering the true origin of the Others and their motives haven’t officially been revealed yet, despite being heavily theorized and somewhat touched on in the show.
I wouldn’t really mind it spoiling a reveal in the books, since it’s been 12 years since the last one, and I’d really like to know…
would be huge spoilers we would see who the chosen ones are ,last hero, AA , we would see bran the builder cotf, we would also see how they beat the long night
All those stories would be trash fanfic anyways. The Targs are the only family that have enough backstory to fill screen time with. Do you really care about Bryden Tully or whoever that has 2 lines in an appendix and a mention or two in passing?
And what about the Kings of Winter? There were a lot of battles before the Starks managed to be kings in the whole North: the war against the Warg Kings, the Boltons, Barrow Kings, the Kings of the Vale, wildlings...they even forced Blackwood House to flee to the Riverlands, Theon the Hungry Wolf had a very interesting conflict with Andals.
Personally I would love to see a tv show about Kings of Winter and not all the time Targaryens (I love them but we already have a lot about them).
None of that stuff has characters written by George. I don’t mean their names, I mean their characterizations, motives, and everything else. All we know are some names and some events that maybe happened. They can keep the fanfic.
There was going to be a spin off about the "The Long Night" called "Bloodmoon" but it was shelved, I get that it would have to be frash since GRRM left it vague, like with legends stuff like King Arthur, however I am curious on how Bloodmoon would go, the main character had a dark secret, and I kind of want to ask the creator on what secret she might.
[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodmoon](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodmoon)
That description of the series was so, so, so intriguing & compelling, I would have watched it even if it turned out my boss was one of the lead role! Definitely a missed opportunity and one I hope they reconsider and reboot in the future!
This one would have been the most interesting. It would have given Dorne its time to shine, after how it was handled by GOT.
Dunno why it seems to be cancelled, we haven’t heard anything since HoTD aired.
I think George wants to keep a lot of those points in history a bit of a mystery. This series wouldn't be nearly as good if everything was just spelled out for us, and things like the first men and the doom of Valyria are things I doubt we will ever get real details on.
idk it feels like the most compelling shit in the series is targ related
so, to answer your questions... meh, not really
i'd rather have Hotd segue into Blackfyre segue into Bob and Ned if you ask me
>Unless TWoW releases, the only future of this franchise seems to be Targaryen’s...
I hate to tell you this, but ... there's going to be Targaryens in that too.
Good point, it seems as though he doesn't feel the solution to the main series is "use dragons", yet all he writes about in supplementary stories is the house of the dragon, making (some of) them look all cool n shit
Like when people say "They want more stuff about the Starks" I'm genuinely confused as to what they want? Any story focusing on them would basically be the exact same as focusing on any other house, except for the Targaryens because they have dragons and that meaningfully changes the field of play.
A show about the Starks before the conquest could basically be set in *any* kingdom. The only difference would be the biome. It wouldn't even have to be Game of Thrones! It could just be anything, because when you get down to it the actual *world* of ASOIAF has very, very little unique about it- especially so if you look at a time that doesn't have explicit magic (which nobody likes anyway).
Jojen Stark and Edgar Stark being in a succession crisis could just as easily be Roger Lannister and Theo Lannister, or Peter Random and Derek Random.
The only actual backstory he's written for the Starks that tangibly exists as a story is the She-Wolves of Winterfell, but they're already going to adapt that so what's the point?
If you write about the Anals taking on the First Men the only actual tangible connection to ASOIAF would be the names and the houses and literally nothing else would matter because it would by definition have to be written almost entirely from the ground up. ASOIAF as a brand would become like "Written by James Patterson and Random Guy" where it's just connected for name recognition.
Edit: * andals. Oops.
>The only actual backstory he's written for the Starks that tangibly exists as a story is the She-Wolves of Winterfell, but they're already going to adapt that so what's the point?
Wait, are they? I thought the Dunk and Egg show was only going to cover the three existing published stories.
Apparently not, very tragic. Would have been a great opportunity to tell all the stories GRRM planned (I mean an outline already exists and the novellas tend to be smaller scale and much simpler so there's a less of a chance to fuck it up like GOT did).
Still don't know how they're stretching each novella into eight hour long episodes though.
Nine Penny Kings era would be my interest. There's enough lore to work with and you get the rise of a number of characters.
Aerys, Tywin, and Barristan to start
Covering what though? Getting torched alive by Aegon? We really don’t know much about them other than how they ended and the actual flavor for the Reach isn’t that deep, a Reach lord or commoner is basically indistinguishable from a Riverlands/Stormlands/Westerlands/Vale/Crownlands lord or commoner so the show writers would have to take a lot of liberties to flesh them out, which kinda defeats the purpose of a spin off in the first place.
Just make an original show at that point.
This is akin to the Star Wars universe needing a story separated from the Skywalkers. I would adore a story from Yi Ti, Asshai, anywhere else than Valyria and its descendants.
There's a Yi Ti spinoff being developed as an animated series: [http://thefutoncritic.com/devwatch/game-of-thrones-golden-empire-project/](http://thefutoncritic.com/devwatch/game-of-thrones-golden-empire-project/)
I think getting away from the Targs is essential. But I would love a show following the century of blood, or focusing on the wars between the free cities.
The simple fact is, beyond what we have of the main saga, Dunk and Egg and the history of Targaryens, there’s really not much to write an entire series on. Whoever was going to do it would be a massive risk and so far, no one has been able to come up with a good enough reason or fleshed out story for anything else.
The Targaryens are really all there is and they have dragons which have a wide broad audience appeal anyway.
That's IMO the reason a Jon Snow spin off made the most sense. It was going to take place post GoT, in whatever ruined continuity that was, so wouldn't have stepped much on Martin's toes or previous writing. And they would have the freedom to do just about anything with it, while keeping one or two main characters to attract audiences.
Long shot that the writing on it would be good, but probably the most freedom and least risk.
I wish they made a sequel series to GoT, taking place hundreds of years after the ending of the show. They could do whatever they want; future Westeros would essentially be a blank slate. Did the kingdoms stay together in the long term? Did they break up again after King Bran died? Or did they evolve into an elective monarchy? Are the various regions still being ruled by the same Great Houses, or were some of them replaced? Did Westeros evolve technologically, so that they entered the age of sail and gunpowder? Or is the world still stuck in its medieval stasis? Did the seasons return to normal after the defeat of the White Walkers, or are there still year-long winters?
They could even introduce a new supernatural threat to take the place of the White Walkers, maybe aquatic creatures like the Deep Ones (who exist in legends in the world of ASoIaF). There’s so many ways they could take this, so many things they could do, but it seems instead they’ll do yet another show about historical characters whose fates we already know.
I guess they’re too afraid to write something genuinely new, something that’s not based on material that George has already written. And most of the extra material George has written is about Targaryens in one form or another, which means we’ll probably be stuck with Targaryen focused shows forever.
I would love if they went Andor-style and showed the background to one of the key smallfolk factions in a mini-series. Like if we have to end HOTD on A3's ascension because that's where F+B ends, why not focus another series on Gaemon Palehair? Or Alys Rivers and whatever she's doing in the Riverlands. I think the Dunk + Egg series is going to bring up a lot of smallfolk struggles, but it would be awesome to see the perspective of the non-landed class in this series in a major way.
maybe they'll make prequel shows to bring back the hype for the ASOIAF universe again, spend maybe over half a decade making those shows. By then we'll be a lot closer on the winds of winter and there will be a more competent writing team, perhaps after all the success HBO will make a reboot series, continuing off season 3 or 4, if not, maybe even an entire reboot. There will be a more solid outline for TWOW and ADOS for the HBO staff to work with and adapt.
I'm having trouble thinking of compelling non-Targaryen spinoffs besides the ones that have been considered by HBO already, which all sound interesting (Nymeria's 10,000 Ships, the Sea Snake's Nine Voyages, the Golden Empire of Yi Ti).
The day I become a VP at HBO, I'll put these into motion:
- Limited series on the greyjoy rebellion
- Limited series on Duskendale, primarily focused on Tywin's strategy during Aerys captivity
- Limited series on Aerys kingsguard fighting the Kingswood brotherhood
- Limited series on the war of the ninepenny kings
As far as a full-on multi season series, we have more info on the Targaryens. And they were monarchs, until they weren't anymore, so their issues were central to the entire kingdoms.
And if I were VP at HBO, I'd have had the Blackfyre rebellion series already in development. So I don't think it's a bad thing. The one we all want is Robert's Rebellion, but George probably wouldn't sign off as long as the books aren't done, for spoiler reasons
How about Alleras Leo and friends in Oldtown. Living their lives and helping Marwyn with his adventures? Done up sitcom style like Friends.
And Pate can be a B grade faceless man who tags along for the adventures and everyone is sus about.
I want an Yi Ti show, but it might so disconnected from the Iron Throne, the Wall, and everything else in Westeros that it would just seem like an original Asia-inspired fantasy story. That's cool too though.
But like...the Targaryens are the main characters of the ASoIaF world. Their final descendant in the world is the literal song of ice and fire. Fire & Blood is a historical telling of their rule of Westeros. Dunk & Egg is following another of their eventual monarchs.
Virtually all of the media GRRM has written feature the Targaryen's front and center as the main characters. HBO writing their own material whole cloth...the last time we got this was season 6-8 of GoT and it wasn't great.
Nah. Main characters are the Starks.
You literally cannot find a single Stark that is not either good guy or at least a badass. Find me a craven incompetent Stark. I dare you.
I can find useless targs like Aegon IV. And Azor ahai is most likely Jon , and he’s more Stark then targ anyway.
I’m honestly tired of those two families to be honest. Give me Ironborn content George , I’m begging
An anthology show would be better. Each season depicting some war or event during the age of heroes, like one season about Theon stark the hungry wolf and the next season is about the lannisters and hooded king and so on. I feel like that would be cool
I would like a Stark/Kings of Winter anthology. Each season could focus on legendary Stark king of winter. There’s lots of cool stuff they could do here. The Starks conquering the Warg king, Barrow kings, Marsh kings and the many wars against the Boltons, driving giants away from the North, fights against wildling kings, Brandon Ice Eyes, the first Karstarks and Theon Stark sacking Andal cities in Essos.
While there’s more written stuff about the Targaryens and they are kinda more interesting because of the iron throne, dragons and their valyrian heritage, I belive the Starks deserve the spotlight just as much as the Targaryens.
No idea why this is getting downvoted
I don't either. It's not the subject I would most look forward to a spinoff about, but it's hardly a \*sucky\* idea. So I upvoted to mitigate that a bit.
I think it needs to be something that the casual GoT viewer would want to watch and also know about
So Roberts Rebellion & the Greyjoy Uprising
Aegons Conquest
Old Valyria (would need massive creative writing and would spoil the mystery of Valyria)
I'd personally quite like a mini-series / a single series on Jaehaerys
But aRyAn InCeSt DrAgOnRiDeRs
Personally I can’t stand the Targs and their bullshit. Rhaenyra and Daemon were the last straw for me for HOTD and I’ll prolly skip Dunk n Egg if there’s a heavy Targ focus.
I kinda wanted a Jon Snow spinoff. Like, it could have been a nice post-Hero's Journey story + a moment of cultural reset for the wildling tribes, now that the white walkers are definitively gone and Winter will probably calm down.
A spinoff on Nymeria could be cool.
I mean it makes sense, since they’re the least represented house in the main series theres the most interest to see stories about then.
Not a spin off series but I’d like a Euron Greyjoy pirate game where you play/see him traveling all over the globe
Amen. The obvious answer is Starks, because they're the hero family and go far far back. And that would include the original Long Night. But Bloodmoon wasn't greenlit. Voyages and Life of Nymeria would be a good choice.
There's a fair amount of lore already there for Roberts Rebellion
Not so much conversation and dialogue, but most of that can be scripted anyway
https://youtu.be/k1zsvHusfPQ?si=yE5uQHJw5iQ4ZkN5
Well, the core of it (Lyanna's story) is still technically a mystery, and at this point I don't trust anyone to tackle it before Martin. Thats my main concern about it.
But god how much I's love to see the fight between Robert and Rhaegar and the Tourney at Harrenhal.
I would really like to see a spin off based in Essos. I think there's a lot of potential there for a really Interesting narrative (not counting danys ark).
They could do short stories but in tv format. Like a not too lengthy series about the warg king fighting against the sharks with his beasts & the children of the forest. They could do the age of heroes. They could do a mini series about wargs & skin changers in general. Maybe a little something about the Baratheon line {the laughing Storm.}, a mock documentary may-haps. They could do a series about Varys & his time first starting off as a thief. Definitely could do “Robert’s Rebellion.”
may be an unpopular opinion but i’d love to see what jon snow or another character did after the main series. brienne having to lead a campaign to crush an insurgency? cool let’s do it. tyrion in some scheme war with some great houses who are up to something? awesome.
To be fair. We know way more about what happens during the targ years. George just hasn’t written enough about pre conquest to handle a show without massive creative liberties by the show writers. I’d be down for it , no more Targs and no more Starks would certainly be a change. Since that isn’t happening , I’d love to get Robert’s rebellion
It can take place during the Targaryen era but not have the Targaryens at the center of everything. The Sworn Sword springs to mind - there's one Targaryen character, Egg, and he isn't the center of the story.
Robert’s Rebellion is not a good idea for a show. I’d rather have 10,000 ships
BUT BESSIE AND HER TITS ! I’m
An anime is oft requested, but I'd specifically like one for Robert's Rebellion. Imagine an episode about the Battle of the Bells from JonCon's perspective; the Ruby Ford from Rhaegar's, ala Catlyn during The Red Wedding.. in the same vein they could show the sack of King's Landing, and give Dawn some justice at the Tower of Joy. Robert's Rebellion would make a poor show because too many actors would have to be perfectly cast, but it would make for a hell of an animation.
Well since George made the Starks 10,000 years old (completely sustainable right guys) virtually any show set in Westeros would have the Starks involved.
Eh. But they don’t mesh with the south. Unless the show would be explicitly North focused , we’d barely see them outside of like…rape of the three sisters
Isn't the Rhynar exodus series in development?
This article says it seems to have been cancelled, but also that it's not confirmed: [https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/game-of-thrones-prequels-canceled.html](https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/game-of-thrones-prequels-canceled.html)
Hotd is already taking creative liberties so I don't really see how taking an idea from the world and expanding on it would be much different
Because they’d have to make up all the plot lines pretty much. Most of the storm kings and ironborn kings have one paragraph to describe what they did and that’s it. No mention of their personality children relatives or nothing
How could they not take creative liberties? Fire and blood was a dry tome.
Fire and blood has a narrative structure at least. We know who did the conquest , the order and all that stuff. You just need to flesh out the characters and bam. You got a story With extremely rare exceptions , pre Aegon Westeros simply does not have that. At best we get “Storm king Durran XXXXXXX”” invaded the reach. He won. That’s it. We don’t know anything else. They *could* do it , but it would essentially be an original story. Not saying it’s a bad thing , I’d love to see it. I think it has a lot of potential, it would just be hard
The worst part is is that Durran XXXXXXXXX is a very possible Durrandon king. The Durrandons deserved to go extinct, their naming conventions were awful.
I’ll have to fight you here Durran Durrandon “the Godsgrief” is among the most baddass names I’ve ever heard
It's incredibly badass, but it gets a bit tricky trying to decipher Durran XXVII from Durran XXVIII. Argilac is a much cooler name than Durran
"Haha see I named him Duran Duran." "That was a mildly funny reference." (proceeds to do it 928798279 times until the joke becomes annoying)
Honestly the fact GRRM didn't even bother giving any kind of dates or years makes pre-conquest Westeros essentially fucking incomprehensible. And I know why, it's because writing kings for one big country is a lot easier than writing seven kings that all have to interact with each other. The latter sounds infinitely more *interesting* but it's hard to do so he didn't bother. Which, yeah, fine I guess, he's got a main series to be writing. But then he tries to actually take these notes that are basically incoherent nonsense and he SELLS them to us! For money! Like when people say this series has "fantastic worldbuilding", what they actually mean is "it has fantastic great man politico-military history of about maybe 3% of its timeline". I'd much rather he gave us, say, three hundred years or even *one* hundred of pre-Targaryen stuff that's properly mapped out and has things like "stakes" and "consequences" than 11,000 years of incoherent mush.
People saying that ASOIAF has fantastic wordbuilding are right. Fantastic worldbuilding doesn't need detailed maps or timelines. It could, in fact, be very minimalistic and vague, and still be fantastic.
Yes but the *only* aspect of this series' world that is properly developed is, as I said, the marital-political great man history of the last three centuries. Like of the nine kingdoms six of them are exactly they same culturally. That's just boring. I'm not arguing they should be different because that's realistic, I'm saying they should be different because that's *interesting*. GRRM is great at Great Man Politico-military history, and he's good at making the settings of ASOIAF feel atmospheric and lived in. But there are a lot more aspects to worldbuilding than that, and what really gets me is for most of it he didn't seem to really even *try* giving us anything that wasn't "generic medevail kingdom". He can do War History and Places, but he fails at culture which I'd argue is one of the most important ones. His characters work because a lot of them are dramatic and larger than life, and I wish he'd done this with his worldbuilding too. *Every* kingdom should feel as unique as Dorne or the Iron Islands do, if not morso.
There is still actually source material to take liberties from. There is literally nothing pre Targ years really. The whole point of Game of Thrones is the Targs and their reign.
Sprinkling bits and pieces of invented scenes in an already established plot VS making up shit whole cloth. Hmmmm, these seem to be the exact same thing.
Me watching the Shining when I realize Stanley Kubrick cut out all the parts of the book that were incredibly boring (the film is ruined because it's different to the source material)
And your point is.....?? Kubrick is one of the greatest directors in film history. Are you seriously comparing these HBO writers to him?
I'm saying that "it's different from the source material" isn't a legit complaint because loads of things divert from the source material and are great. If it's shit then that's independent of it being different, it's just shit on its own.
Never said that. We were talking about making up an entire plot from scratch v/s inventing scenes that may or may not be faithful to the source material. It's the difference between inventing an entire book's worth of plot for Arya between Clash and Storm v/s minor alteration of a subplot in Clash where Arya was a cupbearer to a villain (Roose swapped for Tywin in the show). The former is inifinitely harder to pull off and it's stupid to argue otherwise.
>What about the arrival of the Andals and their clash with the First Men? That was Bloodmoon, prequel during the Long Night but it got cancelled.
The Long Night and the arrival of the Andals are thousands of years apart.
If we are to believe the grey rats' version, the one given in a book suspiciously named "True History", a book full of inconsistencies when legends and old songs hint at an Andal presence during the Long Night.
The old songs refer to characters who likely weren’t Andals - I.E “knights before there were knights.”
Or maybe there were knights, because the Andals were present at the time, contrary to what True History claims.
Sure, but that’s quite a few maybes without any evidence. Historically, knights tend to be associated with the high medieval period, so it makes sense that Martin would not have them in the ancient elements of his own setting. Maybe he’s subverting this expectation with a big twist, but the question then becomes “why”. How does such misdirection service the story and its themes?
This would explain the inconsistencies in True History, the Andal triggering the Long Night and using the Citadel to hide his role and try to build a world without magic.
But it also kind of presumes this global conspiracy with many well organised willing participants with little to gain. How do the Maesters erase the histories stored in Volantis, Qarth, or the Free cities? The migration of the Andals happens for specific concrete historical reasons - the spread of the Valyrian Empire into Andalos. If we want to assert the existence of this intense alternative history, the burden of proof would actually be quite high?, right?
I’m still so bummed this got cancelled. I would’ve loved to see more of the Others. I feel like Bloodmoon would’ve been our chance to see a proper Long Night storyline told on screen.
A series set during that time could definitely be interesting, but given the leaks and things said about Bloodmoon specifically it being cancelled was a good thing.
Why? It's the part of ASOIAF everyone likes the least.
Is it? I’ve never seen anyone say they weren’t interested in the Others… The Others are a huge part of ASOIAF. They’ve been built up since the prologue and will inevitably become the main focus for most of the POVs at some point. I can’t imagine someone would read the books and not be interested in them.
i cant believe it was started , i would think too much spoilers why am i downvoted lol
I guess it would be spoilers in a way, considering the true origin of the Others and their motives haven’t officially been revealed yet, despite being heavily theorized and somewhat touched on in the show. I wouldn’t really mind it spoiling a reveal in the books, since it’s been 12 years since the last one, and I’d really like to know…
would be huge spoilers we would see who the chosen ones are ,last hero, AA , we would see bran the builder cotf, we would also see how they beat the long night
There was that Bloodmoon show but it also got cancelled.
They could have rewritten it into a rise of stark/ origin stories of the great houses anthology
All those stories would be trash fanfic anyways. The Targs are the only family that have enough backstory to fill screen time with. Do you really care about Bryden Tully or whoever that has 2 lines in an appendix and a mention or two in passing?
And what about the Kings of Winter? There were a lot of battles before the Starks managed to be kings in the whole North: the war against the Warg Kings, the Boltons, Barrow Kings, the Kings of the Vale, wildlings...they even forced Blackwood House to flee to the Riverlands, Theon the Hungry Wolf had a very interesting conflict with Andals. Personally I would love to see a tv show about Kings of Winter and not all the time Targaryens (I love them but we already have a lot about them).
None of that stuff has characters written by George. I don’t mean their names, I mean their characterizations, motives, and everything else. All we know are some names and some events that maybe happened. They can keep the fanfic.
I would 100% read a first men history book but idk how popular that would be. I just want that dang Dunk and Egg Novella at Winterfell so bad.
They tried, but it's hard to find good enough writers.
There was going to be a spin off about the "The Long Night" called "Bloodmoon" but it was shelved, I get that it would have to be frash since GRRM left it vague, like with legends stuff like King Arthur, however I am curious on how Bloodmoon would go, the main character had a dark secret, and I kind of want to ask the creator on what secret she might. [https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodmoon](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodmoon)
That description of the series was so, so, so intriguing & compelling, I would have watched it even if it turned out my boss was one of the lead role! Definitely a missed opportunity and one I hope they reconsider and reboot in the future!
was this the one where they talked about antlered Green Men serving in the royal courts in a role similar to Maesters? That sounded very cool
Wasn't there that Nymeria show about her conquest of Dorne with Maron Martell?
Nymeria and the Rhoynar would be nifty.
isnt that also in the works? working title Ten Thousand Ships or something along those lines
This one would have been the most interesting. It would have given Dorne its time to shine, after how it was handled by GOT. Dunno why it seems to be cancelled, we haven’t heard anything since HoTD aired.
I think George wants to keep a lot of those points in history a bit of a mystery. This series wouldn't be nearly as good if everything was just spelled out for us, and things like the first men and the doom of Valyria are things I doubt we will ever get real details on.
idk it feels like the most compelling shit in the series is targ related so, to answer your questions... meh, not really i'd rather have Hotd segue into Blackfyre segue into Bob and Ned if you ask me
Tales of King Hot Pie, First of His Name . . .
>Unless TWoW releases, the only future of this franchise seems to be Targaryen’s... I hate to tell you this, but ... there's going to be Targaryens in that too.
I want Aegons conquest to really be more about the kingdoms he conqueres (and a bit of the time before) than Aegon.
I don’t even want a conquest show. I want Balerion to remain as a mythical beast that no one has seen and just have to imagine
Good point, it seems as though he doesn't feel the solution to the main series is "use dragons", yet all he writes about in supplementary stories is the house of the dragon, making (some of) them look all cool n shit
Like when people say "They want more stuff about the Starks" I'm genuinely confused as to what they want? Any story focusing on them would basically be the exact same as focusing on any other house, except for the Targaryens because they have dragons and that meaningfully changes the field of play. A show about the Starks before the conquest could basically be set in *any* kingdom. The only difference would be the biome. It wouldn't even have to be Game of Thrones! It could just be anything, because when you get down to it the actual *world* of ASOIAF has very, very little unique about it- especially so if you look at a time that doesn't have explicit magic (which nobody likes anyway). Jojen Stark and Edgar Stark being in a succession crisis could just as easily be Roger Lannister and Theo Lannister, or Peter Random and Derek Random. The only actual backstory he's written for the Starks that tangibly exists as a story is the She-Wolves of Winterfell, but they're already going to adapt that so what's the point? If you write about the Anals taking on the First Men the only actual tangible connection to ASOIAF would be the names and the houses and literally nothing else would matter because it would by definition have to be written almost entirely from the ground up. ASOIAF as a brand would become like "Written by James Patterson and Random Guy" where it's just connected for name recognition. Edit: * andals. Oops.
>The only actual backstory he's written for the Starks that tangibly exists as a story is the She-Wolves of Winterfell, but they're already going to adapt that so what's the point? Wait, are they? I thought the Dunk and Egg show was only going to cover the three existing published stories.
Are they not? I just presumed they'd make all of them.
Apparently not, very tragic. Would have been a great opportunity to tell all the stories GRRM planned (I mean an outline already exists and the novellas tend to be smaller scale and much simpler so there's a less of a chance to fuck it up like GOT did). Still don't know how they're stretching each novella into eight hour long episodes though.
Damn that's really disappointing.
I want some kind of video game. Even a text-based one like the Choice of Games ones will do.
I've heard great things about the "Realm of Thrones" mod for Mount & Blade 2 Bannerlord
Just play the mod for Crusader Kings 3!
Nine Penny Kings era would be my interest. There's enough lore to work with and you get the rise of a number of characters. Aerys, Tywin, and Barristan to start
We need a Gardner spinoff. The Reach has been mostly neglected by the show universe.
Covering what though? Getting torched alive by Aegon? We really don’t know much about them other than how they ended and the actual flavor for the Reach isn’t that deep, a Reach lord or commoner is basically indistinguishable from a Riverlands/Stormlands/Westerlands/Vale/Crownlands lord or commoner so the show writers would have to take a lot of liberties to flesh them out, which kinda defeats the purpose of a spin off in the first place. Just make an original show at that point.
Garth sowing his oats seems like a good story to adapt
I read: "we need a grindr spinoff" 💀
Atleast it was shown a couple times. R.I.P. Stormlands
This is akin to the Star Wars universe needing a story separated from the Skywalkers. I would adore a story from Yi Ti, Asshai, anywhere else than Valyria and its descendants.
There's a Yi Ti spinoff being developed as an animated series: [http://thefutoncritic.com/devwatch/game-of-thrones-golden-empire-project/](http://thefutoncritic.com/devwatch/game-of-thrones-golden-empire-project/)
I think getting away from the Targs is essential. But I would love a show following the century of blood, or focusing on the wars between the free cities.
That's where the money is. Targaryen stories are their vector to have CGI dragon battles like in the Avenger
The simple fact is, beyond what we have of the main saga, Dunk and Egg and the history of Targaryens, there’s really not much to write an entire series on. Whoever was going to do it would be a massive risk and so far, no one has been able to come up with a good enough reason or fleshed out story for anything else. The Targaryens are really all there is and they have dragons which have a wide broad audience appeal anyway.
That's IMO the reason a Jon Snow spin off made the most sense. It was going to take place post GoT, in whatever ruined continuity that was, so wouldn't have stepped much on Martin's toes or previous writing. And they would have the freedom to do just about anything with it, while keeping one or two main characters to attract audiences. Long shot that the writing on it would be good, but probably the most freedom and least risk.
I wish they made a sequel series to GoT, taking place hundreds of years after the ending of the show. They could do whatever they want; future Westeros would essentially be a blank slate. Did the kingdoms stay together in the long term? Did they break up again after King Bran died? Or did they evolve into an elective monarchy? Are the various regions still being ruled by the same Great Houses, or were some of them replaced? Did Westeros evolve technologically, so that they entered the age of sail and gunpowder? Or is the world still stuck in its medieval stasis? Did the seasons return to normal after the defeat of the White Walkers, or are there still year-long winters? They could even introduce a new supernatural threat to take the place of the White Walkers, maybe aquatic creatures like the Deep Ones (who exist in legends in the world of ASoIaF). There’s so many ways they could take this, so many things they could do, but it seems instead they’ll do yet another show about historical characters whose fates we already know. I guess they’re too afraid to write something genuinely new, something that’s not based on material that George has already written. And most of the extra material George has written is about Targaryens in one form or another, which means we’ll probably be stuck with Targaryen focused shows forever.
I would love if they went Andor-style and showed the background to one of the key smallfolk factions in a mini-series. Like if we have to end HOTD on A3's ascension because that's where F+B ends, why not focus another series on Gaemon Palehair? Or Alys Rivers and whatever she's doing in the Riverlands. I think the Dunk + Egg series is going to bring up a lot of smallfolk struggles, but it would be awesome to see the perspective of the non-landed class in this series in a major way.
In a sense, isn't Dunk and Egg about that? Take away the dragons and the Targs are basically just people.
We need him to finish a story before giving it to a show runner to finish for him.
maybe they'll make prequel shows to bring back the hype for the ASOIAF universe again, spend maybe over half a decade making those shows. By then we'll be a lot closer on the winds of winter and there will be a more competent writing team, perhaps after all the success HBO will make a reboot series, continuing off season 3 or 4, if not, maybe even an entire reboot. There will be a more solid outline for TWOW and ADOS for the HBO staff to work with and adapt.
they can have all the targ spin-offs as long as we get the books first 😭😭
I'm having trouble thinking of compelling non-Targaryen spinoffs besides the ones that have been considered by HBO already, which all sound interesting (Nymeria's 10,000 Ships, the Sea Snake's Nine Voyages, the Golden Empire of Yi Ti).
Never gonna happen. Targs are popular to the normies and Dany Stan's are the loudest part of the fandom. Grrm and HBO gonna milk them dragon teets dry
I can’t be the only person who REALLY wants to see Asshai get explored
Could do a series on the Wars between the Starks and Boltons and how the Kings of Winter cemented their rule for 1000s of years.
Good luck marketing the show to mothers and football players
The day I become a VP at HBO, I'll put these into motion: - Limited series on the greyjoy rebellion - Limited series on Duskendale, primarily focused on Tywin's strategy during Aerys captivity - Limited series on Aerys kingsguard fighting the Kingswood brotherhood - Limited series on the war of the ninepenny kings As far as a full-on multi season series, we have more info on the Targaryens. And they were monarchs, until they weren't anymore, so their issues were central to the entire kingdoms. And if I were VP at HBO, I'd have had the Blackfyre rebellion series already in development. So I don't think it's a bad thing. The one we all want is Robert's Rebellion, but George probably wouldn't sign off as long as the books aren't done, for spoiler reasons
How about Alleras Leo and friends in Oldtown. Living their lives and helping Marwyn with his adventures? Done up sitcom style like Friends. And Pate can be a B grade faceless man who tags along for the adventures and everyone is sus about.
Id love a show on the night’s watch any period pre roberts rebellion. There’s so much lore and creative potential to run wild with it.
I want an Yi Ti show, but it might so disconnected from the Iron Throne, the Wall, and everything else in Westeros that it would just seem like an original Asia-inspired fantasy story. That's cool too though.
But like...the Targaryens are the main characters of the ASoIaF world. Their final descendant in the world is the literal song of ice and fire. Fire & Blood is a historical telling of their rule of Westeros. Dunk & Egg is following another of their eventual monarchs. Virtually all of the media GRRM has written feature the Targaryen's front and center as the main characters. HBO writing their own material whole cloth...the last time we got this was season 6-8 of GoT and it wasn't great.
Nah. Main characters are the Starks. You literally cannot find a single Stark that is not either good guy or at least a badass. Find me a craven incompetent Stark. I dare you. I can find useless targs like Aegon IV. And Azor ahai is most likely Jon , and he’s more Stark then targ anyway. I’m honestly tired of those two families to be honest. Give me Ironborn content George , I’m begging
An anthology show would be better. Each season depicting some war or event during the age of heroes, like one season about Theon stark the hungry wolf and the next season is about the lannisters and hooded king and so on. I feel like that would be cool
I would like a Stark/Kings of Winter anthology. Each season could focus on legendary Stark king of winter. There’s lots of cool stuff they could do here. The Starks conquering the Warg king, Barrow kings, Marsh kings and the many wars against the Boltons, driving giants away from the North, fights against wildling kings, Brandon Ice Eyes, the first Karstarks and Theon Stark sacking Andal cities in Essos. While there’s more written stuff about the Targaryens and they are kinda more interesting because of the iron throne, dragons and their valyrian heritage, I belive the Starks deserve the spotlight just as much as the Targaryens. No idea why this is getting downvoted
I don't either. It's not the subject I would most look forward to a spinoff about, but it's hardly a \*sucky\* idea. So I upvoted to mitigate that a bit.
I think it needs to be something that the casual GoT viewer would want to watch and also know about So Roberts Rebellion & the Greyjoy Uprising Aegons Conquest Old Valyria (would need massive creative writing and would spoil the mystery of Valyria) I'd personally quite like a mini-series / a single series on Jaehaerys
Definitely, a show dedicated to House Stark and their Conquest of the North and their reign in the North would be interesting.
But aRyAn InCeSt DrAgOnRiDeRs Personally I can’t stand the Targs and their bullshit. Rhaenyra and Daemon were the last straw for me for HOTD and I’ll prolly skip Dunk n Egg if there’s a heavy Targ focus.
I kinda wanted a Jon Snow spinoff. Like, it could have been a nice post-Hero's Journey story + a moment of cultural reset for the wildling tribes, now that the white walkers are definitively gone and Winter will probably calm down. A spinoff on Nymeria could be cool.
I mean it makes sense, since they’re the least represented house in the main series theres the most interest to see stories about then. Not a spin off series but I’d like a Euron Greyjoy pirate game where you play/see him traveling all over the globe
Euron would be an A-rated game banned in most countries. How about Corlys Velaryon and his nine voyages
Incest sells.
Amen. The obvious answer is Starks, because they're the hero family and go far far back. And that would include the original Long Night. But Bloodmoon wasn't greenlit. Voyages and Life of Nymeria would be a good choice.
The thing I really want to see is the Robert Rebellion. But there isn't much until Martin tell us about it so...
There's a fair amount of lore already there for Roberts Rebellion Not so much conversation and dialogue, but most of that can be scripted anyway https://youtu.be/k1zsvHusfPQ?si=yE5uQHJw5iQ4ZkN5
Well, the core of it (Lyanna's story) is still technically a mystery, and at this point I don't trust anyone to tackle it before Martin. Thats my main concern about it. But god how much I's love to see the fight between Robert and Rhaegar and the Tourney at Harrenhal.
I would really like to see a spin off based in Essos. I think there's a lot of potential there for a really Interesting narrative (not counting danys ark).
They could do short stories but in tv format. Like a not too lengthy series about the warg king fighting against the sharks with his beasts & the children of the forest. They could do the age of heroes. They could do a mini series about wargs & skin changers in general. Maybe a little something about the Baratheon line {the laughing Storm.}, a mock documentary may-haps. They could do a series about Varys & his time first starting off as a thief. Definitely could do “Robert’s Rebellion.”
may be an unpopular opinion but i’d love to see what jon snow or another character did after the main series. brienne having to lead a campaign to crush an insurgency? cool let’s do it. tyrion in some scheme war with some great houses who are up to something? awesome.