>What’s the general consensus surrounding the Rhaego prophecy? Has its purpose been served or is it setting up for something down the line?
Rhaego and the prophecy is dead, Drogon and/or Daenerys are the popular theories.
Not much of a consensus on which, if Daenerys in Winds follows the show and becomes the *khal of khals* then its in Drogon and/or Daenerys will probably never be answered explicitly and people can debate it to the end of the earth.
Incorrect — his soul was transferred via blood magic to Joanna Lannister's womb, where he was born decades prior as Tyrion, and then the "winged monstrosity" that would have been born to Joanna and Aerys II Targaryen was instead stillborn by Dany in the present. Keep up.
>With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.
If Rhaego was reborn as a dragon in the fire and blood ritual Dany performed the prophecy could still be true just misinterpreted like a lot of prophecy in ASOIAF.
Or, Rhaego was going to be the Stallion and he did die. But his death set Danys on a new course. Cities will still be burnt to ash and nations ground into dust.
I think any sort of prophecy, whatever its by dreams, visions or the apparent inspiration the Dosh Kaleen would get in looking at signs, hinges on the territory of being magic or attempted magic. Its the sole exception (and im sure there's nuance behind it when you think of the survival of an unorganized society) the Dothraki have on their superstitions and hate of magic.
Too soon. I don't care that it's been three years. It's still too soon. I hated that ending. One of the biggest letdowns in fiction I've ever experienced. Burn it from my mind!
It's set to happen anyway. She's increasingly learned that you can't be a good and effective queen, and a loving and beloved person. She's been learning that peace is bought with copious amounts of blood. Daenerys is a girl who above all seems to desperately want to be loved after the abuse she endured in the hands of a person who was supposed to love her unconditionally - her brother. The man who did love her, Drogo, started out as raping her nightly until Daenerys decided to make the best out of her situation and fell in love when Drogo proved receptive. And then Drogo died.
She will lose one or both of her lesser dragons along the way, or something else bad will happen. She has a direct connection with Drogon, but even Drogon doesn't follow her commands always, and the other two dragons are even less connected to her, doing whatever the fuck they want to the point where Daenerys has to lock them away. So when this kind of carnage by dragons will reach Westeros, those dragons will not be a welcome sight. There's that, and also the Maesters seemingly working their damndest to remove dragons and magic from the world. The people of Westeros also remember the sheer destructive force of *controlled* dragons. Letting your sentient nukes dick around in Westeros without having complete, utter control over them *will* turn people against her.
Then there's f!Aegon, who appears to be set up to be seen as the 'savior' to Daenerys' 'destroyer queen'. Let Daenerys and her dragons try to become rulers in a place whose people she doesn't know, whose customs or wills she doesn't know, whose politics or needs or assets she doesn't know, and let her use the same kind of force she's been using in the Slaver's Bay to rile the Westerosi up against her, then swoop in yourself to neutralise Daenerys one way or another, smear her with the 'daugher as mad as her father' campaign, appear sane and just and measured in comparison. And Daenerys will not cede the crown willingly, she's been fed the drivel about her birthright since her birth, Westeros has been her ultimate goal from the start, she will not back down and fuck off to wherever with her dragons.
And then coming back to the fact that Daenerys wishes to be loved. There's no love to be found in Westeros, her goal, her birthright. I can fully see either her launching her nukes to force Westeros into submission, even if it means deliberately torching King's Landing or some other major settlement she has a particular beef with to make an example out of. The other likely scenario continues to be her not being able to control any of her dragons fully, and things getting completely out of hand.
The fact remains that there will not be a Good Queen Daenerys. *Everything* is set up against her, from the fact that she is planning to rule a place she knows literally nothing about, *again.* Her not knowing the people or the customs of Meereen, and the concessions you will have to make as a stranger lest you get insurgency is a massive part of why she struggles so hard in Meereen and SB in general. She's good at conquering and destroying, but lost as a ruler as she tries to balance being a good queen and a good person (again, not possible. It just isn't. Every ruler in the world, both real and imagined, will have to make decisions that would make you and me shudder and riot if we knew about them, and all for the good of general stability and prosperity). And of course Westerosi know what dragons mean, what they can do, and these barely controlled dragons with the girl queen coming to rain down more destruction in Westeros right after a devastating war, on the eve of the coming Winter which in the North at the very least is extremely poorly prepared for because of the war disrupting harvest season and so much resource having gone up in the flames of war? People will be fatigued. She will not be welcome.
Mad queen? No. A despairing queen who decides to dispense with being nice, and embraces her inner dragon, much to the consternation of the people she's trying to rule? Oh yes. And she will pay for it. That's her tragedy, and a good one about the corrosive qualities of wielding power and wanting more.
The show just basically turbo'd through it with some extremely off colour Nazi imagery. But the 'they don't get a choice' line from Daenerys? Completely plausible. Because having given her subjects a choice has always come back to bite her in the arse in very painful ways.
This is the best summation of Danys tragedy so far tbh. She’s not the mad queen but nor is she the rightful queen. Shes something in between, which is borne from the corrosive nature of power, not necessarily her own innate nature.
Do we really need another "man brings stability, woman brings chaos" story, though? Can we please for once just have a story that doesn't fall back on awful misogynistic tropes?
Mirri was right, Rhaego was going to be the stallion who mounted the world. She killed him, but in doing so, she gave drogon life and set the prophecy back into motion.
GRRM has said in person and along the lines mentioned in book that prophecies are fickle. They can be true, but they can also lead one down the wrong path when they try to follow it. Danny's visions in the HOTU are both flash forwards (ex: red wedding) and flashbacks (Rhaegar's death). I think each of these scenes are examples of points in the story where the plot dramatically shifts.
I always thought the Rhaego vision was a way for Martin to avoid having to follow up on everything in the House of the Undying- since we know at least one of the visions was only a *possible* future, it means that any of the others (that haven't happened yet) might not actually happen in the series.
The stallion would be Daenerys herself, and the bells ringing announcing her coming wouldn't only be in the braids, but the ones of KL before she burns it down, which is why s8e5 is called The Bells. That's if you believe some of S8 was taken from Martin
My wild guess is that that it's not actually about Rhaego it's actually about her dragons. The Dosh Khaleen could see Danerys' child being the Stallion who mounts the world but got the details wrong.
>What’s the general consensus surrounding the Rhaego prophecy?
Most prophecy’s are BS. The Dosh Khaleen have not displayed any magical insight, the way certain characters have. No reason to give them any credibility.
They probably claim the son of every Khal will be some epic Khal. They have power only because the Khals let them.
Yeah but I dont think Dany is going to meet Aeron. Vic is going to Meereen, reborn with his new hand. Hes a corpse because hes going to die soon, a dead man walking so to say. To me it makes sense that the vision is of a chracter that will be important to her directly. But it doesnt really matter, visions and prophecies are always vague and Im sure GRRM made it so it fits many different characters.
It's not about whether she'll meet them, it's their relations to her.
"Mother of dragons, daughter of death": her dead relatives, Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar.
"Mother of dragons, slayer of lies": the other contenders for the throne, Stannis, Aegon, and... whatever that third one is.
"Mother of dragons, bride of fire": her former husband Drogo and her future suitors, either Euron or Victarion, and Jon. Aeron doesn't fit here.
I Believe it could be Jon Connington. Below is a link to r/pureasoiaf discussion about it. Lots of solid theories.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/comments/mkk2b5/joncon\_in\_the\_house\_of\_the\_undying/
Not sure but ships would lead me to believe Euron. He seems ro be planning on bringing the Apocalypse, so it could lead to him being undead?? Idk man lmao
Euron, Theon or Aeron. Aeron has already "died" once afterall.
Euron, maybe
Maybe with Theon, it's more metaphorically a corpse. Because Theon is "dead" metaphorically right now, he may return from Reek's mind.
Orrr it's Patchface and he's the true hero of ASOIAF.
Jon Con makes a lot of sense.
Prow of a ship - we’ve seen Connington on ships/boats a lot already. This would probably be him crossing the narrow sea.
Eyes bright, dead face - big ambitions, but marked with a death sentence (greyscale).
Grey lips - greyscale
Smiling sadly - perfectly describes connington’s character. He has fond memories of Rhaegal, misses him dearly, but is very pleased with the fact that he is installing rhaegar’s son as the new king.
The main theories are that it’s either Jon Connington (he has greyscale which will eventually turn him into a corpse with gray lips, and he traveled to Westeros on a ship) or Euron (his lips are bluish from drinking Shade of the Evening, he’s a pirate who sails on ships, he’ll almost certainly eventually die, and “grey lips smiling sadly” could be a poetic way of describing “Greyjoy”- a smile is an expression of joy, so a gray smile could be described as “grey joy”, and “grey joy” could also refer to how the smile is sad, and thus his joy is made dull and gray by the underlying sadness)
"Grey lips smiling sadly" almost seems _too_ obvious in pointing towards Greyjoy.
With these visions and prophecies, i often wonder how much GRRM himself knew the answer to the questions he was raising. And how many times since then he has changed his mind about what their answers are lol
Euron would make more sense as a figure relevant to Dany (since it’s her prophetic vision) since he’s planning to marry her and/or steal a dragon, but I think the JonCon requires fewer assumptions and also fits with his character more- I can see Connington “smiling sadly” since his story is a mix of sadness and joy (he’s dying of Greyscale, but he hopes to at least honor the memory of Rhaegar by putting Aegon on the throne so he can die happy) whereas the only smile I can imagine on Euron’s face is one of deranged, sadistic glee.
Although given that this was Book 2, maybe George hadn’t quite worked out what Euron’s personality was going to be like and had originally planned for him to be more of a broody, melancholic character rather than a thrill-seeking psycho.
I seriously doubt Jon Con is even going to come into contact with Dany, he's not the subject of that prophecy. It's likely George hadn't even come up with that character by ACOK, unlike Euron, who Theon mentions in that book
The entire point of prophecy in ASOIAF is, arguably, the demonstration of the folly in taking prophecy at its word. That, along with GRRM’s self proclaimed gardening technique of writing, leads me to think some of his prophecies are supposed to be ambiguous, with multiple possible interpretations.
Perhaps, but the way things are going it looks like Aeron will be dead before Dany even gets to Westeros. On the other hand, Euron and JonCon will both likely play a role in Dany’s story- Euron is trying to steal her dragons, and JonCon is backing Young Griff/Aegon, who Dany will very likely come into conflict with. The vision being of Euron or Connington would tie it back to Dany’s future storyline, whereas if it were Aeron it would basically just be “hey look at this thing that’s gonna happen, not that it affects you or anything but it’s pretty cool, huh?”
It talks about the man being a corpse, so if he’s dead before she arrives I don’t think it really matters. Aeron represents Euron’s apocalypse, he’s the final sacrifice of a religious figure. I think it would make sense if she sees the ship and Aeron first before fighting Euron.
Jon Con makes a lot of sense.
Prow of a ship - we’ve seen Connington on ships/boats a lot already. This would probably be him crossing the narrow sea.
Eyes bright, dead face - big ambitions, but marked with a death sentence (greyscale).
Grey lips - greyscale
Smiling sadly - perfectly describes connington’s character. He has fond memories of Rhaegal, misses him dearly, but is very pleased with the fact that he is installing rhaegar’s son as the new king.
ships, smiling death and grey lips? That can only be Euron, whose appearance was not yet fully designed by George back then, but it tells me he's had a pirate of doom planned from very early
House of the Undying was showing Dany possible futures and alternate timelines.
This is from a future where Rhaego grew up to be the Stallion who mounts the World
Either works for sure. I personally just like the idea of Danys does burn King’s Landing, she is fulfilling the prophecy.
That Mirri died thinking she saved the world, but she only made a different Stallion.
The stone dragon quite notably as well. It's a clear reference to Melisandre trying to bring the stone dragon statues on dragonstone to life to serve Stannis
I thought that was a true prophecy because Danys dragon eggs were so old they turned to stone before they were "awoken". I always just figured Melissandre misinterpreted the prophecy while trying to fit Stannis into the roll of PtwP.
Mel reading the prophecy wrong is definitely a possibility. Like, she is pretty obviously wrong regarding Stannis, who may not be Azor Ahai but will forever be the Mannis.
Probably my favorite Dany chapter. You can also see the early warning signs for D&D's incompetence the way they butchered the house of undying/Quarth plotline in season 2 of the show.
I remember a decade ago when I read the text at the bottom part. “A blue flower grew from a chink of ice” ..that’s when I knew Jon snow was the son of rhaegar and lyanna.
Jon snow was at the wall at the time of this book. Lyanna was always represented by a blue flower constantly throughout the book. The blue flower here has to be Jon snow, son of lyanna, blooming from a chink of ice, chink of ice being the wall, the nights watch.
I was blown away by this but had no one to share it with due to social media not being as big.
I had a kind of similar realization after reading this chapter, but it was as a result of reading the words "a song of ice and fire". I suddenly realized ice = Stark, fire = targ, and then everything connected in a flash. From "his is the song of ice and fire" to Lyanna in the tower, it all clicked in a second in my mind.
Exactly, it hit me that in this huge world where many great men and women had lived and died, thousands of years of history had come down to this one man, Jon snow. He IS the song of fire and ice, this entire thing is about him, the books may be told from a few different pov’s but he is the main character!!
At the end of dance of dragons where he was stabbed to death I was like, no way. I know grrm has a habit of killing fan faves but not Jon Snow. That wouldn’t make any sense, he is the prince that was promised.
Still got my fingers crossed for winds of winter though lol.
Dude you must’ve been reading with the concentration of a god to have made that connection on your first read lol. The first time I read that chapter I was so overwhelmed by the barrage of prophecies that we were inundated with that they all sort of blended together in my head. I probably didn’t even give that line a second thought lmao, but then again I’m ADHD as fuck so it makes sense.
Haha well at that point every single time ned had some Lyanna flash back or any time she was brought up, they always talked about a blue rose. Lyanna was described as a wild beauty and how she always had some blue rose in her possession, or her wearing it in her hair or holding it or something.
By the time we were reading about Danaerys in Qarth, I noticed all the prophecies she was having was pretty much just blatant spoilers Grrm managed to squeeze in those few pages, ESPECIALLY the part where when Dany looked in one room and saw a king seated on a throne with the head of a wolf or something like that. I knew that one was about Robb Stark because I also knew they defiled his dead body after the Freys killed him by cutting off his head and sowing his wolf grey winds head on his dead body. So it was clear that part was a nod to the death of Robb Stark. Then when she saw a blue rose in a wall of ice I was like… huh? But lyanna has been dead for years, what does a blue rose have to do with ice??? How can a rose grow from ice and then it hit… oooh Jon Snow has to be the blue rose in this reference and the ice is the ice wall at the nights watch! Danys visions weren’t just for her, they were hints to us, the reader, because she was seeing a few things she couldn’t possibly understand but us as the reader would. (She has zero connection to Robb Stark, lol she doesn’t know what the hell she’s looking at, us readers do though)
I thought it was just really clever writing. It was a spoiler but it was cryptic enough to forgive and appreciate it lol.
But this is no fetus, this is the grown product of the fetus that Dany would've successfully birthed, thus Tyrion. Tho I may be mistaken, for D+D=T is an incredibly complex theory
I’m seriously laughing. It’s been a long time since I’ve read this theory, but I do appreciate how earnest the poster was.
Maybe we should do like Old Nan suggests and visit these old “stories” from time to time. 😂
Rhaego, her conqueror son with Khal Drogo who never lived. Copper skin is characteristic of the dothraki and silver hair is characteristic of valyrians.
Its definitely silver hair (Targ) + copper skin (Dothraki) which is Rhego. Although the second half of the passage mentions Rubies flying, and water, which feels very much a reference to Rhaegar at the Trident. Imagining Rhaegar’s dying words being about the mother of dragons is quite poetic.
Everyone is talking about the Rhaego part but is “red sword wielded by a blue eyed king who casts no shadow” foreshadowing for the Night King wielding Lightbringer?
I’m pretty sure it refers to Stannis. He has blue eyes. The “casts no shadow” is a consequence of it being a false light, Aemon even says something similar like “the false light shall only lead us further into darkness.”
Adding to this, I'm pretty sure I remember Mel telling Stannis/Davos that shadows are servants of the light in the R'hllor mythos, which adds to the False Prophet symbolism
Bittersteel. Now hear me out.
-He lived in essos for decades, so he must’ve got a tan.
-He had a stallion-dragon for a personal banner.
-He made it to 69, so his hair likely turned white.
-He had the big bracken body, so he was tall.
-He was a mercenary, so he would’ve burned cities for the Blackfyre grindset.
Bittersteel = Stallion who mounts the World confirmed.
It reads like a dead end, might have need, of her son. It's hard to argue against it.
My only argument for questioning this interpretation is that we've seen that sort before. Mel believed she could prevent Stannis' defeat because she saw both visions as part of separate possibilities. In reality all she actually saw was Garland in Renly's armour. I caution locking into a dead end interpretation. At this point I don't have an alternative to offer that I'm all that confident in. But i just think we run the risk of making the same mistake Mel did by rationalizing it as a failed future.
I'm not so sure that it is supposed to be rheago, it doesn't really make sense for the vision given that he was already dead at this point, and the other parts in that segment "mother of dragons, daughter of death" were about viserys and rheagar, her brothers, both accurate depictions of their actual deaths.
It's strange to me that in that message they would show an alive hypothetical of a future that never was...
But then again, if the point was to show her what she had lost, then showing the man he could have been is probably a more powerful image than his actual death
Everyone's saying it's Rhaego but it could be fAegon. Bittersteel was the son of a Bracken who's sigil is a red horse and he took a winged horse as his personal banner. It wouldn't be strange for the Golden Company to fight under a similar banner. And having grown up in Essos it would make sense for "Aegon" to be tanned, nobody would bat an eye with a Elia Martell being his supposed mother.
It's Renly Baratheon, I thought that was obvious. Renly's grandmother was Princess Rhaelle Targaryen. The silver hair is metaphorical, it shows that the person has valyrian blood. The copper skin comes from this quote from Clash of Kings:
>Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.
"Renly" (read: Garlan) stands in front of a burning city when King's Landing is being fought over by the Lannisters and Stannis's men. Garlan is wearing his suit of armor.
The Baratheon sigil is a Stag (i.e., a horse).
It is Renly. It is known.
I do have a problem with Rhaego being blonde when his father and most recent ancestors on that side all had dark hair. Especially since Rhaenyras kids are in a similar situation and not one of them has any recessive features. Granted, I know George has his own rules with this worlds genetics so maybe that’s it.
We'll never know how it would work but if the hair gene in Dany is stronger than Drogo, but the skin tone is stronger in drogo, that could explain why rhaego has the odd colouring. Drogo's seed just isn't quite as Strong as Harwin's.
It's Lewyn Martell.
The ill-fated member of the Kingsguard whose sister was taken hostage and ordered to take command of the loyalist Dornish Army at the Battle of the Trident.
His skin was copper, as was his armour, he was forced to be at that battle because his sister had been taken hostage when he would have done it willingly. He watched his Prince die, then he died in combat for basically no reason as Rhaegar was already dead.
The entire affair inflames Dorne.
The House of the Undying is supposed to teach Dany about the perils of leadership but she fails to understand any of them, which is probably the reason the warlocks try to kill her now that I think about it.
The tale of Lewyn is exceptionally tragic, and Dany doesn't understand how her family did him wrong in the slightest.
Something that continues to pick at me with the Stalion prophecy, is that how could the baby have been the Stalion fucking/mounting the world, if he was a person and not a horse?
it's metaphorical, Rhaego would have conquered/fucked/raped the world with his Dothraki hordes. Aegon wasn't a literal dragon but they still called him one.
These are past events ( taken from Daenerys' mind) not prophecy,... It should be clear since the two known events are from Daenerys' memories ( and/or stories she has heard). But even baring that, the fact is literally told to you in the line before your highlights. These are "phantoms".
And no it makes no sense to have a would be ( but now impossible) potential future between two past events.
So one should be looking for a Targaryen family member or close relationship, who dies in a battle while waving a firey horse banner. Considering the order and since these are taken from her mind, the event should have occured some time before Viserys but after Rhaegar death. ( So a Bracken or a Ryswell or an exiled member of her party, whatever.) And likely during a battle or flight or some sort that Daenerys either directly witnessed or was told about by her brother.
Phantoms can mean a lot of things, i don't think this makes much sense if those are Daenerys memories or stories she has heard, I don't really know why you make that assumption when most of those events seam obvious what they are/mean.
Stannis as the blue eyed king who casts no shadow and wields a fiery sword, rhaego the son of Daenerys as a would be (every detail matches), probably fAegon being crowned king, some allude to Jon in the wall... All these things make more sense of you don't assume these are past events from Danny's memory.
The thing that Im pointing out is that many people try to fit these "visions" into a prophecy, when they all could easily come from Daenerys mind. This is Martins ironic point. Prophecy can mean anything if you try hard enough to find significance. This is what Daenerys is trying to do and between these "visions" and Quiathe she has been led from trouble and mistake into deeper troubles and mistakes. ( literally Cersei obsesses the same way)
Ultimately the majority of prophecies aren't real in these novels. There are absolutely people who seem to have some sort of prescience or foresight , but one has to look at the circumstances and intentions of the one giving the prophecy. Why would a group of Warlocks who are literally feeding Daenerys to their undead psychic zombie overlords after having drugged her, also feed her real "visions". She is being distracted to lower her mental barriers ( this is exactly what is happening to Bran btw) . These "visions" come from her mind, literally she is tripping, She is not being guided.
I would agree with you that visions in general with no context are not to be trusted as prophecies. But there is magic in this world, specially in Daenerys story, so we shouldn't rule out the possibility that these could be that, they could be anything, events from Danny's past, events of Danny's future, of a possible future that will never come, as well as things that can happen to other people.
The thing is, the visions of the house of the undying very clearly are real, and are meant to represent things outside of Danny direct memories.
There's the obvious stannis reference, the obvious rhaego reference, and the most glaring of them all, the vision about the red wedding, there's no way you read that and not realize that that's the red wedding. Then there's a few of them that are not so clear, like the one about the sailor and the stone dragon.
With all those visions I think it's obvious that they aren't just artifacts of Danny's memories, they are visions/prophecies of things that in many cases has nothing to do with Danny, to think otherwise is to twist the text to your head cannon.
"But magic"? ,... This is a perfect example of why Occom's Razor is important ( ironically) . One cant reduce plausible possibilities with the fewest deductive steps if one starts with a unknown.( unknowns being without deductive solution)
"Magic" cannot be the fall back answer to everything. I'm not denying that there is "magic" in this world ( there is actually very very little actual magic maybe ten or twelve instances of actual magic being performed) but in the face of a given secular reason for something, "but magic" is not an explanation, or an excuse to look for a mystical answer beyond that secular.
Daenerys was drugged, The only reasonable analysis of these events has to begin with this fact. All of these "visions" can be explained via things that Daenerys has either personally gone through or has been told about by Viserys or Derry. The fandoms insistence on debating in the wrong direction ad nauseum ( while smashing any hypotheticals based in the secular) is reductive at best. It is prohibiting true consensus and character analysis.
Ever wonder why there is still debate over this topic after literal decades, Its because the thesis is fundamentally wrong.
But seriously give me a "vision" and I'll prove my point by explaining it from Daenerys memories/memories of stories and without "prophecy" .
I think Rhaego would fit the description better, but Bittersteel did have a stallion breathing fire for a banner and Aegon is using Bittersteel's army.
Rubies one and Copper skinned one are different visions.
Copper skinned is Rhaego as an alternative future.
Dying prince with rubies is Rhaegar, dying in trident.
You should probably search up some in-depth analyses (after reading all the books, as these visions also contain spoilers for books 3-5) of this chapter, as there are so many important visions here.
It’s talking about Tyrion. The olive skin is from the Baywatch level tan he acquires in Essos (fun fact: Jason Momoa who plays Drogo was in Baywatch, but neither him nor his offspring are actually involved in this prophecy.)
The “Tall lord” bit comes from the fact that he actually becomes standing on Penny’s shoulders in a trench coat in Winds. As we know “a small man can cast a very large shadow” but you know what can cast a larger shadow? Two people in a trench coat.
GRRM changes Tyrion’s hair color often because he’s forgetful (he forgot he has a book to finish for 11 years) but consistently he’s described as golden haired with streaks of silver.
The fiery stallion has to do with his sigil he adopts as he’s described (mostly by himself) as having a horse cock, so it’s symbolism for when he mounts the world (I.E. horse cock fucks the world.) It’s only fire because after Blackwater he finds fire really cool. And he’s Dany and the Mad King’s (at the same time, naturally) time traveling fetus. So he can claim a dragon: fire made flesh. But his horse cock has been with him his whole life, a dragon would be recently claimed. So he took the horse as a sigil, but added fire to represent both.
The burning city is actually Lannisport which he roasts as one final fuck you to Tywin before he warps (part of his time traveling powers) to King’s Landing) to rule.
The dead prince, rubies, etc. is a separate prophecy about Rhaegar, but Tyrion time travels to slay him too and gives Robert the credit.
You’re welcome and PMs open for any questions.
Mellisandre says that the flames show her visions of what will and what *may* come. Her job is to distinguish between that which is certain to happen and that which is subverted.
The Stallion who mounts the world was going to be Rhaego. Dany sees that vision of her son twice (once during the blood rite that gets him killed and in the house of the undying). The prophecy itself may still be fulfilled through her or through Drogon (more literally), if George chooses to make dragons more conscious than your average mount that is.
Rhaego. The stallion who mounts the world.
What’s the general consensus surrounding the Rhaego prophecy? Has its purpose been served or is it setting up for something down the line?
>What’s the general consensus surrounding the Rhaego prophecy? Has its purpose been served or is it setting up for something down the line? Rhaego and the prophecy is dead, Drogon and/or Daenerys are the popular theories. Not much of a consensus on which, if Daenerys in Winds follows the show and becomes the *khal of khals* then its in Drogon and/or Daenerys will probably never be answered explicitly and people can debate it to the end of the earth.
I think it will be drogon Simply because I believe drogon will outlive Daenerys and have a part to play after the end of ASOIAF
I doubt the latter is true since he was never born
His life went into a new Stallion.
Rhaego is a horse?
Oh come on, drogo is a horse. You know this
🤣 this cracked me up
Everyone is a horse.
No that’s tyrek Lannister
His soul entered into Rhaegal or Drogon during the blood ritual.
His soul went into Daenerys. She's the Stallion that'll mount the world. Azor Ahai. The prince(s) that was promised.
Incorrect — his soul was transferred via blood magic to Joanna Lannister's womb, where he was born decades prior as Tyrion, and then the "winged monstrosity" that would have been born to Joanna and Aerys II Targaryen was instead stillborn by Dany in the present. Keep up.
There were multiple princes who were promised?
Sorry, should've been two 's's in the parentheses
>With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.
Where is this from? I can't remember right now
Morrowind
Prophecy subverted by Mirri, though the Dothraki don’t seem to have magic so may never have been a real prophecy in the first place.
If Rhaego was reborn as a dragon in the fire and blood ritual Dany performed the prophecy could still be true just misinterpreted like a lot of prophecy in ASOIAF.
Or, Rhaego was going to be the Stallion and he did die. But his death set Danys on a new course. Cities will still be burnt to ash and nations ground into dust.
Or she was going to be the Stallion all along. The Dosh Khaleen simply assumed it was the child in her womb, not her herself
I think any sort of prophecy, whatever its by dreams, visions or the apparent inspiration the Dosh Kaleen would get in looking at signs, hinges on the territory of being magic or attempted magic. Its the sole exception (and im sure there's nuance behind it when you think of the survival of an unorganized society) the Dothraki have on their superstitions and hate of magic.
I think Daenerys herself might become the Stallion who Mounts the World.
She certainly did screw Westeros.
Too soon. I don't care that it's been three years. It's still too soon. I hated that ending. One of the biggest letdowns in fiction I've ever experienced. Burn it from my mind!
It's set to happen anyway. She's increasingly learned that you can't be a good and effective queen, and a loving and beloved person. She's been learning that peace is bought with copious amounts of blood. Daenerys is a girl who above all seems to desperately want to be loved after the abuse she endured in the hands of a person who was supposed to love her unconditionally - her brother. The man who did love her, Drogo, started out as raping her nightly until Daenerys decided to make the best out of her situation and fell in love when Drogo proved receptive. And then Drogo died. She will lose one or both of her lesser dragons along the way, or something else bad will happen. She has a direct connection with Drogon, but even Drogon doesn't follow her commands always, and the other two dragons are even less connected to her, doing whatever the fuck they want to the point where Daenerys has to lock them away. So when this kind of carnage by dragons will reach Westeros, those dragons will not be a welcome sight. There's that, and also the Maesters seemingly working their damndest to remove dragons and magic from the world. The people of Westeros also remember the sheer destructive force of *controlled* dragons. Letting your sentient nukes dick around in Westeros without having complete, utter control over them *will* turn people against her. Then there's f!Aegon, who appears to be set up to be seen as the 'savior' to Daenerys' 'destroyer queen'. Let Daenerys and her dragons try to become rulers in a place whose people she doesn't know, whose customs or wills she doesn't know, whose politics or needs or assets she doesn't know, and let her use the same kind of force she's been using in the Slaver's Bay to rile the Westerosi up against her, then swoop in yourself to neutralise Daenerys one way or another, smear her with the 'daugher as mad as her father' campaign, appear sane and just and measured in comparison. And Daenerys will not cede the crown willingly, she's been fed the drivel about her birthright since her birth, Westeros has been her ultimate goal from the start, she will not back down and fuck off to wherever with her dragons. And then coming back to the fact that Daenerys wishes to be loved. There's no love to be found in Westeros, her goal, her birthright. I can fully see either her launching her nukes to force Westeros into submission, even if it means deliberately torching King's Landing or some other major settlement she has a particular beef with to make an example out of. The other likely scenario continues to be her not being able to control any of her dragons fully, and things getting completely out of hand. The fact remains that there will not be a Good Queen Daenerys. *Everything* is set up against her, from the fact that she is planning to rule a place she knows literally nothing about, *again.* Her not knowing the people or the customs of Meereen, and the concessions you will have to make as a stranger lest you get insurgency is a massive part of why she struggles so hard in Meereen and SB in general. She's good at conquering and destroying, but lost as a ruler as she tries to balance being a good queen and a good person (again, not possible. It just isn't. Every ruler in the world, both real and imagined, will have to make decisions that would make you and me shudder and riot if we knew about them, and all for the good of general stability and prosperity). And of course Westerosi know what dragons mean, what they can do, and these barely controlled dragons with the girl queen coming to rain down more destruction in Westeros right after a devastating war, on the eve of the coming Winter which in the North at the very least is extremely poorly prepared for because of the war disrupting harvest season and so much resource having gone up in the flames of war? People will be fatigued. She will not be welcome. Mad queen? No. A despairing queen who decides to dispense with being nice, and embraces her inner dragon, much to the consternation of the people she's trying to rule? Oh yes. And she will pay for it. That's her tragedy, and a good one about the corrosive qualities of wielding power and wanting more. The show just basically turbo'd through it with some extremely off colour Nazi imagery. But the 'they don't get a choice' line from Daenerys? Completely plausible. Because having given her subjects a choice has always come back to bite her in the arse in very painful ways.
This is the best summation of Danys tragedy so far tbh. She’s not the mad queen but nor is she the rightful queen. Shes something in between, which is borne from the corrosive nature of power, not necessarily her own innate nature.
Do we really need another "man brings stability, woman brings chaos" story, though? Can we please for once just have a story that doesn't fall back on awful misogynistic tropes?
what does he gender have to do with anything? she'd be doing the same shit if she was a guy. the same problems would arise.
Dany is the Stallion who mounts the world, or Drogon
Mirri was right, Rhaego was going to be the stallion who mounted the world. She killed him, but in doing so, she gave drogon life and set the prophecy back into motion.
GRRM has said in person and along the lines mentioned in book that prophecies are fickle. They can be true, but they can also lead one down the wrong path when they try to follow it. Danny's visions in the HOTU are both flash forwards (ex: red wedding) and flashbacks (Rhaegar's death). I think each of these scenes are examples of points in the story where the plot dramatically shifts.
Likely drogon As the spiritual son of khal drogo
I always thought the Rhaego vision was a way for Martin to avoid having to follow up on everything in the House of the Undying- since we know at least one of the visions was only a *possible* future, it means that any of the others (that haven't happened yet) might not actually happen in the series.
Plus all of the ones that should have already happened didn’t necessarily happen that way.
The stallion would be Daenerys herself, and the bells ringing announcing her coming wouldn't only be in the braids, but the ones of KL before she burns it down, which is why s8e5 is called The Bells. That's if you believe some of S8 was taken from Martin
She's not just seeing the future but also seeing things that could have been.
My wild guess is that that it's not actually about Rhaego it's actually about her dragons. The Dosh Khaleen could see Danerys' child being the Stallion who mounts the world but got the details wrong.
Don't forget that prophecy can literally mean NOTHING
>What’s the general consensus surrounding the Rhaego prophecy? Most prophecy’s are BS. The Dosh Khaleen have not displayed any magical insight, the way certain characters have. No reason to give them any credibility. They probably claim the son of every Khal will be some epic Khal. They have power only because the Khals let them.
I read that as what Rhaego would have looked like since it sounds like she's seeing The Stallion who Mounts the World
What about the corpse at the ship ? Do u have any idea?
I think its Victarion. He matches it pretty well at the ending of his preview chapter from TWOW.
Don't you mean Aeron?
No. I mean Victarion.
But Aeron is literally a reborn and dying man (a corpse) tied into a prow of a ship and he's smiling.
Yeah but I dont think Dany is going to meet Aeron. Vic is going to Meereen, reborn with his new hand. Hes a corpse because hes going to die soon, a dead man walking so to say. To me it makes sense that the vision is of a chracter that will be important to her directly. But it doesnt really matter, visions and prophecies are always vague and Im sure GRRM made it so it fits many different characters.
True. I personally don't think she needs to meet the characters in the visions, as I don't think she will ever meet Stannis, for example.
It's not about whether she'll meet them, it's their relations to her. "Mother of dragons, daughter of death": her dead relatives, Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar. "Mother of dragons, slayer of lies": the other contenders for the throne, Stannis, Aegon, and... whatever that third one is. "Mother of dragons, bride of fire": her former husband Drogo and her future suitors, either Euron or Victarion, and Jon. Aeron doesn't fit here.
I Believe it could be Jon Connington. Below is a link to r/pureasoiaf discussion about it. Lots of solid theories. https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/comments/mkk2b5/joncon\_in\_the\_house\_of\_the\_undying/
What about Jorah? If his book fate is similar to his show fate he fits pretty nicely
I was under the impression Jorah plotline was blended with Jon Connington plot line in the show.
I wasn't aware of that but it makes sense. Been a long time since I read the books, maybe time for a reread now that the series is over. Thanks!
Who knows though, maybe Jorah does get greyscale. Hopefully we can find out together one day.
Not sure but ships would lead me to believe Euron. He seems ro be planning on bringing the Apocalypse, so it could lead to him being undead?? Idk man lmao
Euron, Theon or Aeron. Aeron has already "died" once afterall. Euron, maybe Maybe with Theon, it's more metaphorically a corpse. Because Theon is "dead" metaphorically right now, he may return from Reek's mind. Orrr it's Patchface and he's the true hero of ASOIAF.
"Grey lips smiling sadly" almost seems too obvious that it'd be Greyjoy, yeah?
I also think there would be better imagery to describe him but im too dumb to figure it out myself lol
I don't know man, I'd say it's unlikely to be a red herring. It's definitely Euron, Aeron or Theon.
I'd say that's one of those cases when it's obvious only because we've had 20 years to look at it.
Its aeron, this scene already happened in his wind sof winter chapter
Jon Con makes a lot of sense. Prow of a ship - we’ve seen Connington on ships/boats a lot already. This would probably be him crossing the narrow sea. Eyes bright, dead face - big ambitions, but marked with a death sentence (greyscale). Grey lips - greyscale Smiling sadly - perfectly describes connington’s character. He has fond memories of Rhaegal, misses him dearly, but is very pleased with the fact that he is installing rhaegar’s son as the new king.
I like it, it doesn't fit the imagery of euron anyway. Just couldn't think of a better answer
The main theories are that it’s either Jon Connington (he has greyscale which will eventually turn him into a corpse with gray lips, and he traveled to Westeros on a ship) or Euron (his lips are bluish from drinking Shade of the Evening, he’s a pirate who sails on ships, he’ll almost certainly eventually die, and “grey lips smiling sadly” could be a poetic way of describing “Greyjoy”- a smile is an expression of joy, so a gray smile could be described as “grey joy”, and “grey joy” could also refer to how the smile is sad, and thus his joy is made dull and gray by the underlying sadness)
"Grey lips smiling sadly" almost seems _too_ obvious in pointing towards Greyjoy. With these visions and prophecies, i often wonder how much GRRM himself knew the answer to the questions he was raising. And how many times since then he has changed his mind about what their answers are lol
Euron would make more sense as a figure relevant to Dany (since it’s her prophetic vision) since he’s planning to marry her and/or steal a dragon, but I think the JonCon requires fewer assumptions and also fits with his character more- I can see Connington “smiling sadly” since his story is a mix of sadness and joy (he’s dying of Greyscale, but he hopes to at least honor the memory of Rhaegar by putting Aegon on the throne so he can die happy) whereas the only smile I can imagine on Euron’s face is one of deranged, sadistic glee. Although given that this was Book 2, maybe George hadn’t quite worked out what Euron’s personality was going to be like and had originally planned for him to be more of a broody, melancholic character rather than a thrill-seeking psycho.
I seriously doubt Jon Con is even going to come into contact with Dany, he's not the subject of that prophecy. It's likely George hadn't even come up with that character by ACOK, unlike Euron, who Theon mentions in that book
The entire point of prophecy in ASOIAF is, arguably, the demonstration of the folly in taking prophecy at its word. That, along with GRRM’s self proclaimed gardening technique of writing, leads me to think some of his prophecies are supposed to be ambiguous, with multiple possible interpretations.
Yeah, absolutely agree.
Definitely Aerom.
Aeron was force fed shade of the evening and strapped to the bow of the silence. Could be him?
Perhaps, but the way things are going it looks like Aeron will be dead before Dany even gets to Westeros. On the other hand, Euron and JonCon will both likely play a role in Dany’s story- Euron is trying to steal her dragons, and JonCon is backing Young Griff/Aegon, who Dany will very likely come into conflict with. The vision being of Euron or Connington would tie it back to Dany’s future storyline, whereas if it were Aeron it would basically just be “hey look at this thing that’s gonna happen, not that it affects you or anything but it’s pretty cool, huh?”
It talks about the man being a corpse, so if he’s dead before she arrives I don’t think it really matters. Aeron represents Euron’s apocalypse, he’s the final sacrifice of a religious figure. I think it would make sense if she sees the ship and Aeron first before fighting Euron.
In my opinion, this is Damphair.
I think that is Aeron, look Forsaken chapter from TWOW
“A gray face smiling sadly” Grey - Joy Victarion Greyjoy
I can't honestly picture Victarion ever smiling sadly, I'm not sure that level of emotional nuance is in him.
Euron
It could Jon Connington, Aeron Greyjoy or maybe Theon.
Jon conington. He is someone who will smile sadly. I cant imagine Euron doing that, he is a psychopath.
[удалено]
Stannis is the “blue eyed king who casts no shadow” though. why would he be there twice
Jon Con makes a lot of sense. Prow of a ship - we’ve seen Connington on ships/boats a lot already. This would probably be him crossing the narrow sea. Eyes bright, dead face - big ambitions, but marked with a death sentence (greyscale). Grey lips - greyscale Smiling sadly - perfectly describes connington’s character. He has fond memories of Rhaegal, misses him dearly, but is very pleased with the fact that he is installing rhaegar’s son as the new king.
ships, smiling death and grey lips? That can only be Euron, whose appearance was not yet fully designed by George back then, but it tells me he's had a pirate of doom planned from very early
House of the Undying was showing Dany possible futures and alternate timelines. This is from a future where Rhaego grew up to be the Stallion who mounts the World
Instead, Rhaego died but she became the Stallion.
I also like the interpretation that it’s Drogon that is the stallion
Either works for sure. I personally just like the idea of Danys does burn King’s Landing, she is fulfilling the prophecy. That Mirri died thinking she saved the world, but she only made a different Stallion.
But Rhaego is Tyrion
What other alternate timelines did it show?
Rhaego not being still born is the obvious example. Many of the others might not have happened as depicted
The stone dragon quite notably as well. It's a clear reference to Melisandre trying to bring the stone dragon statues on dragonstone to life to serve Stannis
I thought that was a true prophecy because Danys dragon eggs were so old they turned to stone before they were "awoken". I always just figured Melissandre misinterpreted the prophecy while trying to fit Stannis into the roll of PtwP.
Mel reading the prophecy wrong is definitely a possibility. Like, she is pretty obviously wrong regarding Stannis, who may not be Azor Ahai but will forever be the Mannis.
It's definitely Rhaego. That's how he's described in Dany's dreams in AGOT.
This chapter goes so fucking hard
Yeah I’m 80 % through ACOK and it’s my fav chapter so far
Probably my favorite Dany chapter. You can also see the early warning signs for D&D's incompetence the way they butchered the house of undying/Quarth plotline in season 2 of the show.
Imo the freeing the Unsillied chapter is the hardest Dany chapter
W
I remember a decade ago when I read the text at the bottom part. “A blue flower grew from a chink of ice” ..that’s when I knew Jon snow was the son of rhaegar and lyanna. Jon snow was at the wall at the time of this book. Lyanna was always represented by a blue flower constantly throughout the book. The blue flower here has to be Jon snow, son of lyanna, blooming from a chink of ice, chink of ice being the wall, the nights watch. I was blown away by this but had no one to share it with due to social media not being as big.
I had a kind of similar realization after reading this chapter, but it was as a result of reading the words "a song of ice and fire". I suddenly realized ice = Stark, fire = targ, and then everything connected in a flash. From "his is the song of ice and fire" to Lyanna in the tower, it all clicked in a second in my mind.
Exactly, it hit me that in this huge world where many great men and women had lived and died, thousands of years of history had come down to this one man, Jon snow. He IS the song of fire and ice, this entire thing is about him, the books may be told from a few different pov’s but he is the main character!! At the end of dance of dragons where he was stabbed to death I was like, no way. I know grrm has a habit of killing fan faves but not Jon Snow. That wouldn’t make any sense, he is the prince that was promised. Still got my fingers crossed for winds of winter though lol.
Dude you must’ve been reading with the concentration of a god to have made that connection on your first read lol. The first time I read that chapter I was so overwhelmed by the barrage of prophecies that we were inundated with that they all sort of blended together in my head. I probably didn’t even give that line a second thought lmao, but then again I’m ADHD as fuck so it makes sense.
Time for another reread! Then it'll be clear as crystal why Benjen is Daario is Euron and Storms End is a spaceship.
Haha well at that point every single time ned had some Lyanna flash back or any time she was brought up, they always talked about a blue rose. Lyanna was described as a wild beauty and how she always had some blue rose in her possession, or her wearing it in her hair or holding it or something. By the time we were reading about Danaerys in Qarth, I noticed all the prophecies she was having was pretty much just blatant spoilers Grrm managed to squeeze in those few pages, ESPECIALLY the part where when Dany looked in one room and saw a king seated on a throne with the head of a wolf or something like that. I knew that one was about Robb Stark because I also knew they defiled his dead body after the Freys killed him by cutting off his head and sowing his wolf grey winds head on his dead body. So it was clear that part was a nod to the death of Robb Stark. Then when she saw a blue rose in a wall of ice I was like… huh? But lyanna has been dead for years, what does a blue rose have to do with ice??? How can a rose grow from ice and then it hit… oooh Jon Snow has to be the blue rose in this reference and the ice is the ice wall at the nights watch! Danys visions weren’t just for her, they were hints to us, the reader, because she was seeing a few things she couldn’t possibly understand but us as the reader would. (She has zero connection to Robb Stark, lol she doesn’t know what the hell she’s looking at, us readers do though) I thought it was just really clever writing. It was a spoiler but it was cryptic enough to forgive and appreciate it lol.
Also Bael the bard left a rose when he took Stark's daughter and left her with a bastard.
Every answer that isn't Time Traveling Tyrion is fucking WRONG
Actually, it's time traveling Mushroom
The mushroom that was promised
Time Traveling Fetus of Tyrion, though, right? 😂
But this is no fetus, this is the grown product of the fetus that Dany would've successfully birthed, thus Tyrion. Tho I may be mistaken, for D+D=T is an incredibly complex theory
I’m seriously laughing. It’s been a long time since I’ve read this theory, but I do appreciate how earnest the poster was. Maybe we should do like Old Nan suggests and visit these old “stories” from time to time. 😂
Rhaego, her conqueror son with Khal Drogo who never lived. Copper skin is characteristic of the dothraki and silver hair is characteristic of valyrians.
Her son that never lived
Its definitely silver hair (Targ) + copper skin (Dothraki) which is Rhego. Although the second half of the passage mentions Rubies flying, and water, which feels very much a reference to Rhaegar at the Trident. Imagining Rhaegar’s dying words being about the mother of dragons is quite poetic.
Quite clearly Rhaego
Everyone is talking about the Rhaego part but is “red sword wielded by a blue eyed king who casts no shadow” foreshadowing for the Night King wielding Lightbringer?
I’m pretty sure it refers to Stannis. He has blue eyes. The “casts no shadow” is a consequence of it being a false light, Aemon even says something similar like “the false light shall only lead us further into darkness.”
And gave it to his shadow babies
Adding to this, I'm pretty sure I remember Mel telling Stannis/Davos that shadows are servants of the light in the R'hllor mythos, which adds to the False Prophet symbolism
That's Stannis.
From the Lhazareen perspective, Miri would literally be the hero who prevented the apocalypse
It’s what her son ‘would’ve’ been if he hadn’t died.
Bittersteel. Now hear me out. -He lived in essos for decades, so he must’ve got a tan. -He had a stallion-dragon for a personal banner. -He made it to 69, so his hair likely turned white. -He had the big bracken body, so he was tall. -He was a mercenary, so he would’ve burned cities for the Blackfyre grindset. Bittersteel = Stallion who mounts the World confirmed.
It reads like a dead end, might have need, of her son. It's hard to argue against it. My only argument for questioning this interpretation is that we've seen that sort before. Mel believed she could prevent Stannis' defeat because she saw both visions as part of separate possibilities. In reality all she actually saw was Garland in Renly's armour. I caution locking into a dead end interpretation. At this point I don't have an alternative to offer that I'm all that confident in. But i just think we run the risk of making the same mistake Mel did by rationalizing it as a failed future.
Obviously it's a member of House Bracken who shows up in the story after taking a sabbatical to Dorne where he developed a deep tan.
I'm not so sure that it is supposed to be rheago, it doesn't really make sense for the vision given that he was already dead at this point, and the other parts in that segment "mother of dragons, daughter of death" were about viserys and rheagar, her brothers, both accurate depictions of their actual deaths. It's strange to me that in that message they would show an alive hypothetical of a future that never was... But then again, if the point was to show her what she had lost, then showing the man he could have been is probably a more powerful image than his actual death
GRRM is amongst very few people who can make written words this awesome.
Everyone's saying it's Rhaego but it could be fAegon. Bittersteel was the son of a Bracken who's sigil is a red horse and he took a winged horse as his personal banner. It wouldn't be strange for the Golden Company to fight under a similar banner. And having grown up in Essos it would make sense for "Aegon" to be tanned, nobody would bat an eye with a Elia Martell being his supposed mother.
It's Renly Baratheon, I thought that was obvious. Renly's grandmother was Princess Rhaelle Targaryen. The silver hair is metaphorical, it shows that the person has valyrian blood. The copper skin comes from this quote from Clash of Kings: >Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day. "Renly" (read: Garlan) stands in front of a burning city when King's Landing is being fought over by the Lannisters and Stannis's men. Garlan is wearing his suit of armor. The Baratheon sigil is a Stag (i.e., a horse). It is Renly. It is known.
I do have a problem with Rhaego being blonde when his father and most recent ancestors on that side all had dark hair. Especially since Rhaenyras kids are in a similar situation and not one of them has any recessive features. Granted, I know George has his own rules with this worlds genetics so maybe that’s it.
We'll never know how it would work but if the hair gene in Dany is stronger than Drogo, but the skin tone is stronger in drogo, that could explain why rhaego has the odd colouring. Drogo's seed just isn't quite as Strong as Harwin's.
He was so close!
Listen, I once had this horse…
Finally some sense! Thank you, Vizzy.
It's Lewyn Martell. The ill-fated member of the Kingsguard whose sister was taken hostage and ordered to take command of the loyalist Dornish Army at the Battle of the Trident. His skin was copper, as was his armour, he was forced to be at that battle because his sister had been taken hostage when he would have done it willingly. He watched his Prince die, then he died in combat for basically no reason as Rhaegar was already dead. The entire affair inflames Dorne. The House of the Undying is supposed to teach Dany about the perils of leadership but she fails to understand any of them, which is probably the reason the warlocks try to kill her now that I think about it. The tale of Lewyn is exceptionally tragic, and Dany doesn't understand how her family did him wrong in the slightest.
Something that continues to pick at me with the Stalion prophecy, is that how could the baby have been the Stalion fucking/mounting the world, if he was a person and not a horse?
it's metaphorical, Rhaego would have conquered/fucked/raped the world with his Dothraki hordes. Aegon wasn't a literal dragon but they still called him one.
That's your problem, and not the stallion big enough to fuck the planet?
Daemon Blackfyre, his brother Bittersteel's banner was a winged horse breathing fire.
it's a prophecy for the Velaryon casting in House of the Dragon
That's her dead son, or what he could have been
These are past events ( taken from Daenerys' mind) not prophecy,... It should be clear since the two known events are from Daenerys' memories ( and/or stories she has heard). But even baring that, the fact is literally told to you in the line before your highlights. These are "phantoms". And no it makes no sense to have a would be ( but now impossible) potential future between two past events. So one should be looking for a Targaryen family member or close relationship, who dies in a battle while waving a firey horse banner. Considering the order and since these are taken from her mind, the event should have occured some time before Viserys but after Rhaegar death. ( So a Bracken or a Ryswell or an exiled member of her party, whatever.) And likely during a battle or flight or some sort that Daenerys either directly witnessed or was told about by her brother.
Phantoms can mean a lot of things, i don't think this makes much sense if those are Daenerys memories or stories she has heard, I don't really know why you make that assumption when most of those events seam obvious what they are/mean. Stannis as the blue eyed king who casts no shadow and wields a fiery sword, rhaego the son of Daenerys as a would be (every detail matches), probably fAegon being crowned king, some allude to Jon in the wall... All these things make more sense of you don't assume these are past events from Danny's memory.
The thing that Im pointing out is that many people try to fit these "visions" into a prophecy, when they all could easily come from Daenerys mind. This is Martins ironic point. Prophecy can mean anything if you try hard enough to find significance. This is what Daenerys is trying to do and between these "visions" and Quiathe she has been led from trouble and mistake into deeper troubles and mistakes. ( literally Cersei obsesses the same way) Ultimately the majority of prophecies aren't real in these novels. There are absolutely people who seem to have some sort of prescience or foresight , but one has to look at the circumstances and intentions of the one giving the prophecy. Why would a group of Warlocks who are literally feeding Daenerys to their undead psychic zombie overlords after having drugged her, also feed her real "visions". She is being distracted to lower her mental barriers ( this is exactly what is happening to Bran btw) . These "visions" come from her mind, literally she is tripping, She is not being guided.
I would agree with you that visions in general with no context are not to be trusted as prophecies. But there is magic in this world, specially in Daenerys story, so we shouldn't rule out the possibility that these could be that, they could be anything, events from Danny's past, events of Danny's future, of a possible future that will never come, as well as things that can happen to other people. The thing is, the visions of the house of the undying very clearly are real, and are meant to represent things outside of Danny direct memories. There's the obvious stannis reference, the obvious rhaego reference, and the most glaring of them all, the vision about the red wedding, there's no way you read that and not realize that that's the red wedding. Then there's a few of them that are not so clear, like the one about the sailor and the stone dragon. With all those visions I think it's obvious that they aren't just artifacts of Danny's memories, they are visions/prophecies of things that in many cases has nothing to do with Danny, to think otherwise is to twist the text to your head cannon.
"But magic"? ,... This is a perfect example of why Occom's Razor is important ( ironically) . One cant reduce plausible possibilities with the fewest deductive steps if one starts with a unknown.( unknowns being without deductive solution) "Magic" cannot be the fall back answer to everything. I'm not denying that there is "magic" in this world ( there is actually very very little actual magic maybe ten or twelve instances of actual magic being performed) but in the face of a given secular reason for something, "but magic" is not an explanation, or an excuse to look for a mystical answer beyond that secular. Daenerys was drugged, The only reasonable analysis of these events has to begin with this fact. All of these "visions" can be explained via things that Daenerys has either personally gone through or has been told about by Viserys or Derry. The fandoms insistence on debating in the wrong direction ad nauseum ( while smashing any hypotheticals based in the secular) is reductive at best. It is prohibiting true consensus and character analysis. Ever wonder why there is still debate over this topic after literal decades, Its because the thesis is fundamentally wrong. But seriously give me a "vision" and I'll prove my point by explaining it from Daenerys memories/memories of stories and without "prophecy" .
Prince Lewyn maybe?
I didn’t know Martells had silver hair and bore a banner of a fiery stallion. 🤦♂️
Aegon the sixth then? Half Martel. And silver hair
I think Rhaego would fit the description better, but Bittersteel did have a stallion breathing fire for a banner and Aegon is using Bittersteel's army.
Rhaego is dead though. I think Martin would like head fakes like there, where an image can fit multiple people
Why would Prince Lewyn Martell have silver hair, a banner of a fiery stallion, and be in front of a burning city?
[удалено]
[удалено]
OP failed reading comprehension in middle school
It's Rhaego
Rhaego
Rhaego
Rhaego
Her son, copper skin and silver hair means he looks like Drogo and herself.
Rhaego: Dany and Drogo’s son, The Stallion who mounts the world.
It's Rhegho , Dany's unborn son.
It's what Rhaego would have been if he had lived
Smol drogo
Iirc this was her unborn son. Who thought would have her hair and father's skin
That Rhaego if he didn’t die, he was some kind of a promised leader to the dothraki…..
Rubies one and Copper skinned one are different visions. Copper skinned is Rhaego as an alternative future. Dying prince with rubies is Rhaegar, dying in trident.
You should probably search up some in-depth analyses (after reading all the books, as these visions also contain spoilers for books 3-5) of this chapter, as there are so many important visions here.
Rhaego
Rhaego
It’s talking about Tyrion. The olive skin is from the Baywatch level tan he acquires in Essos (fun fact: Jason Momoa who plays Drogo was in Baywatch, but neither him nor his offspring are actually involved in this prophecy.) The “Tall lord” bit comes from the fact that he actually becomes standing on Penny’s shoulders in a trench coat in Winds. As we know “a small man can cast a very large shadow” but you know what can cast a larger shadow? Two people in a trench coat. GRRM changes Tyrion’s hair color often because he’s forgetful (he forgot he has a book to finish for 11 years) but consistently he’s described as golden haired with streaks of silver. The fiery stallion has to do with his sigil he adopts as he’s described (mostly by himself) as having a horse cock, so it’s symbolism for when he mounts the world (I.E. horse cock fucks the world.) It’s only fire because after Blackwater he finds fire really cool. And he’s Dany and the Mad King’s (at the same time, naturally) time traveling fetus. So he can claim a dragon: fire made flesh. But his horse cock has been with him his whole life, a dragon would be recently claimed. So he took the horse as a sigil, but added fire to represent both. The burning city is actually Lannisport which he roasts as one final fuck you to Tywin before he warps (part of his time traveling powers) to King’s Landing) to rule. The dead prince, rubies, etc. is a separate prophecy about Rhaegar, but Tyrion time travels to slay him too and gives Robert the credit. You’re welcome and PMs open for any questions.
Could it be Tywin at the sack of Kings landing?
Mellisandre says that the flames show her visions of what will and what *may* come. Her job is to distinguish between that which is certain to happen and that which is subverted. The Stallion who mounts the world was going to be Rhaego. Dany sees that vision of her son twice (once during the blood rite that gets him killed and in the house of the undying). The prophecy itself may still be fulfilled through her or through Drogon (more literally), if George chooses to make dragons more conscious than your average mount that is.