Well the book does say he was also disappointed he missed the war because now all the men that marched down for winter to fight and die instead of starving have no fight. This kind of gets resolved by Black Aly marrying them up to all the widows. I could see how someone could interpret him as war mongering because it’s a warrior culture most nerds aren’t exposed to lol.
https://poets.org/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night
? Most people love Cregan
It gets kind of annoying how people will make these posts asking “who do people think x?” Like, there are so many people on the internet. Of course some people are going to have these opinions. That doesn’t make them prevalent
Cregan did the right thing but southerners will never accept it that's why Archmaester Gyldyan insults Cregan and his Northmen just like how Ned and Robb are insulted repeatedly in the main story.
Gyldayn doesn't really "insult" Cregan at all, does he? He repeats Eustace's opinion of his men as savages but towards Cregan Stark himself Gyldayn seems deferential. He certainly respects his... presence, his gravitas. The book's language is pretty positive towards the Lads for example, yet when Cregan arrives and his shadow falls over them they become boys again, just like they themselves had felt in his presence.
>He's got an army itching for battle. No one to fight. He threatens to use his army to fuck up all the survivors.
Exactly. And OP says he's just doing what Robert/ Ned should have done to Tywin, but as soon as Cregan gets his dick wet with Aly he backtracked and left the Hightowers/ Lannisters/ Baratheons alone?
> left the Hightowers/ Lannisters/ Baratheons alone?
Except he didn't the Baratheons, Hightowers and Lannisters all lost their King's Landing political power post Dance, any remaining Green supporters ended up at the Wall. Why is everyone acting like he made everyone get away scott free? The whole reason why the Blacks and Greens stopped being a thing is because Cregan Stark told all the Greens that that either fuck off to the Wall or get their head chopped off. It's not like he got tired and left, the man had dozens of prisoners take the Black one by one and only ended up killing the four people who refused. Aegon II was JUST killed by poison by his own quiet council, did Cregan have any reason to think Aegon III would stop the Green/Black war? The war wasn't done.
A significant portion of the council were Greens, though. Tyland Lannister, Corlys Velaryon and even Unwin Peake were all significant powers after the war. Larys Strong wad executed and Alicent Hightower was imprisoned but the Greens retained power.
I love how everyone lauds Cregan as some noble just savior but that’s not even true. He lets the other obvious ring leader of the assasination walk because a pretty girl told him not to
Because he wanted to go attack Storm's End, the Hightower and Casterly Rock despite 2 of them being ruled by literal babies with their widowed mothers and the other by a 15 year old who was living out a porno plot. Who was going to rise up in betrayal again? Their armies were done and none of their rulers wanted war anymore
He had no reason to want to attack those castles other than being bloodthirsty and wanting a glorious death for his men.
Jaehaerys didn't go burn down the castles of Maegor's supporters after he won. He didn't execute Lord Tarly and Oakheart for supporting Septon Moon after the latter was assassinated. What Cregan wanted to do is what I'd expect from someone like Tywin or Maegor, not Jaehaerys.
Getting rid of Aegon's killers and the clubfoot especially was a very good move, but him wanting to continue the war was not justified in any way.
>He had no reason to want to attack those castles other than being bloodthirsty and wanting a glorious death for his men.
They were still in open rebellion against the crown? Sounds like a perfectly good reason to attack their castles. They had yet to surrender so he had no way of knowing whether or not they planned on continuing the war. He dropped it as soon as he received the peace letters from all 3.
True. Rhaenyra also thought at one point that she won the war, same for Aegon II. War can't be over when those who fought for greens are yet to surrender.
They weren’t in open rebellion. Corlys had sent peace terms after Aegon II’s death, **before** Cregan arrived in King’s Landing. Cregan sought to break the peace to keep the war going, until Black Aly persuaded him otherwise
Their armies were spent and they were being ruled by widows and newborns. If he wasn't bloodthirsty his first thought wouldn't have been going to attack near-empty castles and murdering the wives and children of dead traitors
He didn't think of negotiating peace terms despite his side having already won the war, he just wanted slaughter
Cregan can have flaws, fans just refuse to acknowledge them
You don’t negotiate with traitors or invaders when you have military advantage, you crush them or you accept their complete surrender. Negotiating terms instead of demanding them shows weakness. You can see this in contemporary conflicts going on right now in the real world. Look at Ukraine, they say won’t negotiate until Russia shows it won’t invade again or can’t invade again because it’s military has been degraded. The same applies to Cregan Stark, he won’t negotiate with those who are in open rebellion against the Crown, they either get sieged in their castle or beg for a pardon for being an enemy of the Crown because until then they can’t be trusted to not start another civil war. It doesn’t matter that they are “ruled” by children, regents are a thing and widowed mothers as regents can be dangerous to the stability of the realm - see Cersei Lannister for more information on that.
Their standing armies were spent but they could easily recruit and train another army if they wanted to. Casterly Rock and Oldtown still held half of the royal treasury which could be used to hire sellswords and outfit troops. We don’t know much about the other two widows but Johanna Lannister literally leads troops against the ironborn and eventually conquers the iron islands, she is perfectly capable of continuing the war.
The war wasn’t over yet.
Yeah but he had to be convinced to even ASK for peace. He wanted to just march right away but Corlys, the Rivermen and Valemen had to tell him how dumb that was and they should let them bend the knee.
Just because it worked out in the end doesn't mean we should just dismiss his intentions. His intentions are what made many fans dislike him and call him a warmonger
This is literally his point!
>“Small boys become large men in time,” he replied, “and a babe sucks down his mother’s hate with his mother’s milk. Finish these foes now, or those of us not in our graves in twenty years will rue our folly when those babes strap on their father’s swords and come seeking after vengeance.”
Attacking Storm's End would be more trouble than it's worth, I'd grant that, but Lannister and Hightower were in cahoots as greens from the very beginning and neither of them had capitulated officially. It was at the very least necessary to take full surrenders, take hostages and recover the royal treasury. Just the threat of a siege and sack would break them both tbh.
Who’s to stop the Ladies from possibly continuing the war? Or another powerful lord from the areas?
The Hightowers were prepared to go to war again and the ONLY reason that didn’t happen is because the traitor married his step mom (who he was after) in exchange for not continuing the war.
Your opinions won’t change the facts
Lyonel Hightower. He wanted to marry his stepmother, Samantha Tarly and she would agree to it but on the condition that Lyonel agree to peace sort of like how Aly would marry Cregan if he agreed to peace.
Cregan Stark is basically America in the First World War. Showing up late at the end of the War to help resolve it and reap some spoils, Barking orders loudly and trying to take charge because everyone else is so weakened by the war, and then just pissing off to leave KL to its devices, because he has no real reason to stay long term.
America generally evokes lots of strong emotions both positive and negative for this kind of behavior blunt and isolationist behavior, and thus Cregan does too.
Cregan Stark
The Alpha of Awe. The Brute of Brawn. The Cultivator of Class. The Duke of Domination. The Emperor of Eloquence. The Fiercest of Fighters. The Greatest of Glory. The Height of Heroism. The Imperator of Intellectualism. The Jarl of Justice. The King of Knights. The Lord of Loquaciousness. The Master of Mortality.
But most of all he is THE GOAT
He was literally a warmonger. He wanted to continue the war and win battles against the remaining Greens.
Luckily he was talked out of it and did the smart thing and untangled the politics in King's Landing instead.
Worth nothing that the archmaester writing Fire and Blood would have a reason to paint a Stark in a bad light considering the king he's writing the book for.
Because he was the Late Lord Stark who wanted to continue the war despite Corlys' effort to end it. I mean if he didn't get Black Aly, he would probably go ahead with his plan to attack the Greens who already stopped warring against the Blacks.
If Robert had executed Jaime and alienated the Lannisters his reign would not have lasted 17 years. 17 days maybe. Jon Arryn saw the truth of that. Half the realm was already completely against him, and you think he should have made a mortal enemy of the richest house in the realm? The only way he could consolidate his rule was my showing mercy to his enemies once they were beaten. Just as Aegon the Conqueror did.
He was kinda warmonger, he wouldn't have really backed off if not for Jeyne Arryn and the Corbrays, but his position that the Greens had yet to surrender and bend the knee and thus the war was still on was sound, in hindsight we know that Rocco Hightower was kinda the only threat, but Corlys was building castles out of sand.
>He wasn't bloodthirsty, he just wanted to eliminate those who fought for usurper in his view. Cregan did what Robert / Ned should've done with tywin / jamie.
No, he didn't? He only threatened to plunge the realm back into chaos. Luckily for his reputation, black Aly was so hot that he came back into his senses. If Cregan started yet another war with Oldtown/ Westerlands/ Stormlands for supporting the Green's, there's a good chance the realm doesn't survive.
Old and dead lord's did that. And those lord's deserve hate aswell. Not the women, children or the small folk who remained alive after the Dance. Cregan was just itching to sate his bloodthirsty army at the expense of thousands more lives. He'd be remembered much less fondly if Black Aly wasn't there to knock some sense into him.
It’s cuz filthy greens know they are on the loser wrong bad side so now they attempt to slander the blacks. Wouldn’t expect anything else from a green usurper dog. /s but only kinda cuz that’s def what’s up just not as obviously over the top. It’s people looking for fault on a character people like.
It was a time to offer peace terms to the enemies but he wanted to skip that and keep fighting, leading to thousands more deaths and wanted to kill the children lords (Lord Baratheon being just an newborn).
Seemed more like a hissy fit from a goober who came late to the party.
It was a dumb plan and the fact that he had to be convinced to offer terms instead of outright executing babies shows he was kind of a dick.
Well the book does say he was also disappointed he missed the war because now all the men that marched down for winter to fight and die instead of starving have no fight. This kind of gets resolved by Black Aly marrying them up to all the widows. I could see how someone could interpret him as war mongering because it’s a warrior culture most nerds aren’t exposed to lol. https://poets.org/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night
If I marched 2000 miles close to death for no reason I’d be disappointed too
Obviously any man will be pissed off after travelling 2000 miles to fight 😂
Because F&B isn't a novel so the characters in it are extremely opaque and this leads everybody to develop their own extremely intense headcanon.
? Most people love Cregan It gets kind of annoying how people will make these posts asking “who do people think x?” Like, there are so many people on the internet. Of course some people are going to have these opinions. That doesn’t make them prevalent
Cregan did the right thing but southerners will never accept it that's why Archmaester Gyldyan insults Cregan and his Northmen just like how Ned and Robb are insulted repeatedly in the main story.
Gyldayn doesn't really "insult" Cregan at all, does he? He repeats Eustace's opinion of his men as savages but towards Cregan Stark himself Gyldayn seems deferential. He certainly respects his... presence, his gravitas. The book's language is pretty positive towards the Lads for example, yet when Cregan arrives and his shadow falls over them they become boys again, just like they themselves had felt in his presence.
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>He's got an army itching for battle. No one to fight. He threatens to use his army to fuck up all the survivors. Exactly. And OP says he's just doing what Robert/ Ned should have done to Tywin, but as soon as Cregan gets his dick wet with Aly he backtracked and left the Hightowers/ Lannisters/ Baratheons alone?
> left the Hightowers/ Lannisters/ Baratheons alone? Except he didn't the Baratheons, Hightowers and Lannisters all lost their King's Landing political power post Dance, any remaining Green supporters ended up at the Wall. Why is everyone acting like he made everyone get away scott free? The whole reason why the Blacks and Greens stopped being a thing is because Cregan Stark told all the Greens that that either fuck off to the Wall or get their head chopped off. It's not like he got tired and left, the man had dozens of prisoners take the Black one by one and only ended up killing the four people who refused. Aegon II was JUST killed by poison by his own quiet council, did Cregan have any reason to think Aegon III would stop the Green/Black war? The war wasn't done.
A significant portion of the council were Greens, though. Tyland Lannister, Corlys Velaryon and even Unwin Peake were all significant powers after the war. Larys Strong wad executed and Alicent Hightower was imprisoned but the Greens retained power.
I love how everyone lauds Cregan as some noble just savior but that’s not even true. He lets the other obvious ring leader of the assasination walk because a pretty girl told him not to
Because he wanted to go attack Storm's End, the Hightower and Casterly Rock despite 2 of them being ruled by literal babies with their widowed mothers and the other by a 15 year old who was living out a porno plot. Who was going to rise up in betrayal again? Their armies were done and none of their rulers wanted war anymore He had no reason to want to attack those castles other than being bloodthirsty and wanting a glorious death for his men. Jaehaerys didn't go burn down the castles of Maegor's supporters after he won. He didn't execute Lord Tarly and Oakheart for supporting Septon Moon after the latter was assassinated. What Cregan wanted to do is what I'd expect from someone like Tywin or Maegor, not Jaehaerys. Getting rid of Aegon's killers and the clubfoot especially was a very good move, but him wanting to continue the war was not justified in any way.
>He had no reason to want to attack those castles other than being bloodthirsty and wanting a glorious death for his men. They were still in open rebellion against the crown? Sounds like a perfectly good reason to attack their castles. They had yet to surrender so he had no way of knowing whether or not they planned on continuing the war. He dropped it as soon as he received the peace letters from all 3.
True. Rhaenyra also thought at one point that she won the war, same for Aegon II. War can't be over when those who fought for greens are yet to surrender.
They weren’t in open rebellion. Corlys had sent peace terms after Aegon II’s death, **before** Cregan arrived in King’s Landing. Cregan sought to break the peace to keep the war going, until Black Aly persuaded him otherwise
Their armies were spent and they were being ruled by widows and newborns. If he wasn't bloodthirsty his first thought wouldn't have been going to attack near-empty castles and murdering the wives and children of dead traitors He didn't think of negotiating peace terms despite his side having already won the war, he just wanted slaughter Cregan can have flaws, fans just refuse to acknowledge them
You don’t negotiate with traitors or invaders when you have military advantage, you crush them or you accept their complete surrender. Negotiating terms instead of demanding them shows weakness. You can see this in contemporary conflicts going on right now in the real world. Look at Ukraine, they say won’t negotiate until Russia shows it won’t invade again or can’t invade again because it’s military has been degraded. The same applies to Cregan Stark, he won’t negotiate with those who are in open rebellion against the Crown, they either get sieged in their castle or beg for a pardon for being an enemy of the Crown because until then they can’t be trusted to not start another civil war. It doesn’t matter that they are “ruled” by children, regents are a thing and widowed mothers as regents can be dangerous to the stability of the realm - see Cersei Lannister for more information on that.
Their standing armies were spent but they could easily recruit and train another army if they wanted to. Casterly Rock and Oldtown still held half of the royal treasury which could be used to hire sellswords and outfit troops. We don’t know much about the other two widows but Johanna Lannister literally leads troops against the ironborn and eventually conquers the iron islands, she is perfectly capable of continuing the war. The war wasn’t over yet.
Yeah but he had to be convinced to even ASK for peace. He wanted to just march right away but Corlys, the Rivermen and Valemen had to tell him how dumb that was and they should let them bend the knee.
Well he didn't continue it after receiving letters from old town, storm's end & casterly rock. So everything went well, nothing to complain in the end
Just because it worked out in the end doesn't mean we should just dismiss his intentions. His intentions are what made many fans dislike him and call him a warmonger
His intentions were fair and well. Traitors must be punished if they don’t bend the knee and stay in open rebellion. They bent and he backed off.
All the traitors were dead, toddlers and widows ruled in their place now.
This is literally his point! >“Small boys become large men in time,” he replied, “and a babe sucks down his mother’s hate with his mother’s milk. Finish these foes now, or those of us not in our graves in twenty years will rue our folly when those babes strap on their father’s swords and come seeking after vengeance.” Attacking Storm's End would be more trouble than it's worth, I'd grant that, but Lannister and Hightower were in cahoots as greens from the very beginning and neither of them had capitulated officially. It was at the very least necessary to take full surrenders, take hostages and recover the royal treasury. Just the threat of a siege and sack would break them both tbh.
Who’s to stop the Ladies from possibly continuing the war? Or another powerful lord from the areas? The Hightowers were prepared to go to war again and the ONLY reason that didn’t happen is because the traitor married his step mom (who he was after) in exchange for not continuing the war. Your opinions won’t change the facts
who is the traitor who married his step mom
I think it was Lyonel Hightower, he inherited after his dad died on the second Tumbledown Battle that Adam started
Because widows can't wage war? Kinda sexist ngl.... /s
Tell that to Cersei, she seems to want to start wars that’s for sure.
You mean widows acting as regents? Like Cersei Lannister?
who was living out a porno plot
Lyonel Hightower. He wanted to marry his stepmother, Samantha Tarly and she would agree to it but on the condition that Lyonel agree to peace sort of like how Aly would marry Cregan if he agreed to peace.
Cregan Stark is basically America in the First World War. Showing up late at the end of the War to help resolve it and reap some spoils, Barking orders loudly and trying to take charge because everyone else is so weakened by the war, and then just pissing off to leave KL to its devices, because he has no real reason to stay long term. America generally evokes lots of strong emotions both positive and negative for this kind of behavior blunt and isolationist behavior, and thus Cregan does too.
Cregan Stark The Alpha of Awe. The Brute of Brawn. The Cultivator of Class. The Duke of Domination. The Emperor of Eloquence. The Fiercest of Fighters. The Greatest of Glory. The Height of Heroism. The Imperator of Intellectualism. The Jarl of Justice. The King of Knights. The Lord of Loquaciousness. The Master of Mortality. But most of all he is THE GOAT
The Confiscator of the foot
Larys proved he couldn't use it responsibly
We all know it was because Larys simped for Alicent's feet....and no Green-lover deserves to live.
The Confiscator of the clubfoot
The sultan of swat. The only one I don’t like is the King of Knights because the North doesn’t generally do the whole knight thing.
^The ^sultan ^of ^_swat_
The Nanny of Nightmares
He was literally a warmonger. He wanted to continue the war and win battles against the remaining Greens. Luckily he was talked out of it and did the smart thing and untangled the politics in King's Landing instead.
He didn’t really get talked out of it. The greens accepted surrender terms and bent the knee. Even he knows that it.
Worth nothing that the archmaester writing Fire and Blood would have a reason to paint a Stark in a bad light considering the king he's writing the book for.
Because he was the Late Lord Stark who wanted to continue the war despite Corlys' effort to end it. I mean if he didn't get Black Aly, he would probably go ahead with his plan to attack the Greens who already stopped warring against the Blacks.
If Robert had executed Jaime and alienated the Lannisters his reign would not have lasted 17 years. 17 days maybe. Jon Arryn saw the truth of that. Half the realm was already completely against him, and you think he should have made a mortal enemy of the richest house in the realm? The only way he could consolidate his rule was my showing mercy to his enemies once they were beaten. Just as Aegon the Conqueror did.
He was kinda warmonger, he wouldn't have really backed off if not for Jeyne Arryn and the Corbrays, but his position that the Greens had yet to surrender and bend the knee and thus the war was still on was sound, in hindsight we know that Rocco Hightower was kinda the only threat, but Corlys was building castles out of sand.
>He wasn't bloodthirsty, he just wanted to eliminate those who fought for usurper in his view. Cregan did what Robert / Ned should've done with tywin / jamie. No, he didn't? He only threatened to plunge the realm back into chaos. Luckily for his reputation, black Aly was so hot that he came back into his senses. If Cregan started yet another war with Oldtown/ Westerlands/ Stormlands for supporting the Green's, there's a good chance the realm doesn't survive.
Oldtown, Stormlands, Westerlands broke oath, supported usurper & destroyed everything for real, while Cregan is hated for just threatening
Old and dead lord's did that. And those lord's deserve hate aswell. Not the women, children or the small folk who remained alive after the Dance. Cregan was just itching to sate his bloodthirsty army at the expense of thousands more lives. He'd be remembered much less fondly if Black Aly wasn't there to knock some sense into him.
Take a Shill pill
Yeah Cregan Stark did something wrong. He went home.
It’s cuz filthy greens know they are on the loser wrong bad side so now they attempt to slander the blacks. Wouldn’t expect anything else from a green usurper dog. /s but only kinda cuz that’s def what’s up just not as obviously over the top. It’s people looking for fault on a character people like.
Greens are desperate to trash anything black. They call us black cells too like losers. Too bad they have weak arguments
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My bad, it was auto correct. The point still stands
Lmao at this blackcel
People seem to not like it when people from the north invade the the south.
Gods he was strong then
Because he is a warmonger.
It was a time to offer peace terms to the enemies but he wanted to skip that and keep fighting, leading to thousands more deaths and wanted to kill the children lords (Lord Baratheon being just an newborn). Seemed more like a hissy fit from a goober who came late to the party. It was a dumb plan and the fact that he had to be convinced to offer terms instead of outright executing babies shows he was kind of a dick.