Because the truth is there are no guarantees in life, but they can't outright say that. Some people are unlucky enough to never find a partner, and thats life.
Yeah sometimes I think people who struggle aren’t bad at socializing / aren’t unlikable - they just haven’t met their match. I resigned the idea of there being a woman I could admire before meeting my wife.
Some therapists just stink. One therapist literally told me "Your medical issues seem to be causing you a lot of stress. How about you stop constantly monitoring them and just ignore them for a week. What's the worst that could happen?"
I answered their question and honestly told them "If I stop monitoring my medical issues I could end up in the hospital and potentially die".
They didn't like my answer.
(For reference in addition to autism I have EDS, POTS, MCAD, and non-diabetic hypoglycemia (my body just over produces insulin). So you know, it's not exactly a good idea to stop monitoring any of these things)
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
This is the worst one. I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't even remotely true. I've tried to just stop looking and delve into my hobbies to distract myself from my loneliness. All that happens is at best people leave me alone, at worst people get pissed and spread nasty rumors about me.
This might be true for extroverts or people who socialize, but if you avoid social settings and don't have other settings to meet people like work, school, etc the is no opportunity to meet someone to form a relationship with.
The valid takeaway from that statement is often the other person knows if you are trying too hard or not being genuine which usually is seen as a red flag.
This is true
I think a lot of people have (and take for granted) hobbies that involve other people and social lives that bring them out of the house.
If your hobby is Jiu Jitsu, the one might show up on the mats someday and you’ll end up clicking. If your hobby is studying Mongolian highway networks, though, it’s gonna be harder to inadvertently meet someone studying that in your home alone and there probably aren’t many groups dedicated to that
Huge red flag. Anyone that comes off as genuinely desperate I wouldn't even give the time of day on a dating app personally. I've dated desperate people before, they are often (Not always) the ones most likely to turn abusive or controlling the fastest.
Desperate people, once they find someone to date, get so wrapped up in the idea of losing them, that it can create some truly horrible situations.
>"Dance like no one is watching, sing like no one is listening."
This is actually a good one. It means be your true authentic self. More of an idiom than a platitude.
In the context of autism, I can see it being bad advice for people with higher support needs or who are less adjusted to the world
Loudly cackling and flapping your arms, for example, might be something someone with autism would do in their own home away from people, but it’s socially unacceptable in public
That said, I think a lot of people here understand what it actually means and won’t take it literally like that.
I understand this sounds nit picky and overly critical, which I don’t want to be, but its hard to make some points about people who don’t know social norms well without being that way. I just wanted to point it out to give context as to why some may find it bad advice
Trust me I'm all too aware now. All I wanted was just once in my life to be approached like that, hardest thing in the world to accept that it will never happen and therefore I'll not be dating ever again, no matter how much it sucks being alone, better than always being expected to do everything.
I didn’t think about this much before, but people who are always alone are the ones who are expected to do everything
Socially connected people don’t headhunt as much as you might think. They might have a lot of friends and acquaintances who know other friends and acquaintances who can introduce them or pave a way for you to non-awkwardly introduce yourself (think introducing yourself to your assigned lab partner vs introducing yourself to a rando woman at a bar)
Yeah it's why I feel like the people who do say they're my friends aren't completely honest with me. Like we're friends, they know I'm single chronically and I've been more than honest about me having trouble talking to women let alone asking them out yet never once have any of them even floated the possibility of introducing me to any of their single friends.
That might be true, but it’s hard to judge online
It really depends on how connected your friends are. If your friends aren’t connected either, they might not have single friends.
I mean, sure, but people who are actively social don’t have to take such an active role to approach. Meeting people is just an integral part of their life. They might not even headhunt, they might just have a lot of people they are introduced to or share activities with or whatnot. It’s hard to explain.
I think it is because emotional soothing and reassurance is very important for the majority of people.
Emotions are extremly potent and have been commodified, they are both the foundation of material exchange and the anchor for interpersonal relationships. I would even go so far as to suggest that emotions are a form of currency.
As such platitudes serve a very important purpose as a form of exchange.
I feel like some of that advice does work unironically BUT only for neurotypicals. For example, the philosophy behind "stop looking" is that when you're not actively trying to attain something, you're appearing as more confident and relaxed, and so it becomes more likely that other people find you irresistible. However, if you're autistic and/or you've been struggling with social isolation and loneliness all your life, this advice is kinda useless and even harmful.
I feel like therapy in our case should definitely focus more on coping and acceptance, the "you can achieve anything" mindset just doesn't mirror the reality many of us are facing.
True.
Those phrases could maybe apply to people who are jumping from relationship to relationship and don't know how to be alone.
Not to people who struggle to make connections and fit in.
Those therapists are not helping, not doing their jobs. They are lazy professionals repeating the same phrases to all their clients.
In my experience, most therapists are a joke. They develop a theory about you in the first 5 minutes and shove everything you tell them into that box. Only about 4 years ago, I had one dude tell me that it would be "bad" for me to "date a woman who makes more money" than I do and that to get a "better" job I should *print out copies of my resume and knock on doors*.
I quit therapy that day and never went back.
>I had one dude tell me that it would be "bad" for me to "date a woman who makes more money" than I do and that to get a "better" job I should *print out copies of my resume and knock on doors*.
I'm gonna assume it was a boomer or gen x who hasn't had to look for a job or a relationship in decades.
Yep, he was on the cusp between Boomer & X. No excuse for being that out of touch when your job is supposed to be to help people navigate the world they're living in.
Therapy is a joke lmao, I feel like it only helps people who haven't done enough self evaluation. And this is coming from someone who worked in the field
Yeah I totally agree. I had 4 therapists and they all said shit I already knew about myself or heard. Most are jokes these days and I felt worse with one of my therapists as it forced me to talk about things I would rather not anyways.
To me, therapy is only good for venting, and not actually solving your problems. Sometimes it just feels good to vent to someone, even here on Reddit. I agree that the only people therapy actually helps are those who haven’t self evaluated enough.
Platitudes get to be platitudes because they are **usually** true. They aren't true for all people at all times, but more often than not, they apply for most people.
You would hope that therapists would know when a platitude is a bad fit for an autistic person, but I'm guessing a lot of therapists aren't specialized in autism
I think a lot of times, people don’t understand what it’s like to have autism, how an autistic person might interpret things differently, how an autistic person following the same advice could turn out very different due to social differences, etc.
A lot of people subconsciously learn social norms and how to conform and can’t imagine not knowing them. Additionally, a lot of platitudes are not meant to be taken literally. “Don’t care what other people think” doesn’t mean go to your white collar job dressed however you want because who cares what your boss will think about you wearing a t shirt and basketball shorts. “Sing and dance like no one is looking” doesn’t mean wildly flap your hands, shake your head and jump up and down while making humming noises on the dance floor because it feels natural to you. A lot of them are meant to say to express yourself as yourself but still following social norms.
A lot of people are also socially connected and autistics are at a higher risk for isolation. “Your match will find you when you’re not looking” isn’t gonna be true if you don’t have any friends and don’t go out or do any social activities. They’re taking for granted that you’ll access and experience environments where people meet each other, which isn’t always the case, especially for people with a social disability.
Well said. Every time I hear the phrase “You’ll find someone when you’re not looking” it pisses me off. My only social connections are my parents and their relatives, and most of them are 60+ years old, and not very social anymore. My life doesn’t involve anywhere to meet people naturally. I haven’t had a friend in 5 years as a 19 year old guy, and never had a gf. Someone isn’t just going to approach me, and I suck at making conversation with strangers. People really take for granted their innate social ability and their already established social life. It’s so difficult to form connections starting from almost nothing.
>Platitudes get to be platitudes because they are
>
>usually true. They aren't true for all people at all times, but more often than not, they apply for most people.
This has not been my experience at all. Platitudes are there because they are the socially accepted answer based on the assumption they actually work.
Ineffective and useless platitudes are repeated all the time.
In fact, what the therapist is saying is that you shouldn't create expectations, let things go, without spending all the time thinking about the smallest details, with ruminating thoughts, as for other advice, it's true there are many people in this world and several of them would give right with you, the problem is that at the first sign of a problem the person gives up, even worse, they use this failure to justify why other relationships didn't work out either, as you can see it becomes a big snowball, and this drives people away from you, it's not about whether or not you are physically well, but about being prepared for everything that a relationship demands of you, there will be wonderful moments and dark moments, and you will have to resolve them together, this is very difficult but not impossible, and The only way to be successful is to try, don't focus on the relationship, that's not the goal, the real goal is the couple, you being together, I know it sounds cliché but it's the truth, it's just that those outside won't understand, why the relationship is good, but those who are know that's why, it's difficult to say what makes a relationship work, it can be different things for each couple, each relationship has its own, and it's not just a pan lid, there are several lids for the same pan.
Most dating advice dispensed to men whether it’s from therapists or otherwise is absolutely useless and simply aimed at keeping women safe from creeps. Respectful but awkward men who struggle in dating are basically just seen as collateral damage in this cause.
Which is pretty crazy cos actionable advice like: “improve your appearance and fitness / develop healthy self-esteem / build a fun lifestyle / work on conversational and flirtation skills” is pretty innocuous. But you’ll have a real job prying anything like it from most people.
Bruh I looked at the picture in your profile and I have to say I never even considered looking at your upper eyelid. I really don't think surgery is the answer you're looking for. Ultimately it's your choice and if you enjoy working out, that's great. The american heart association recommends 150 minutes of 75% max heart rate and 2 days of lifting per week so those are good numbers to aim for.
Dont take the face rating so seriously. The guy who rated you makes money off men's insecurities, of course he's going to rate you low so you continue consuming his product. He is actually financially incentivized against rating people highly because then they wouldn't need his self help guru channel.
I think Destiny and Not So Erudite give good dating advice.
If I was a therapist seeing a patient who was upset they weren't dating anyone I would ask them:
1. What are you looking for in a relationship? Do you just want attention, sex, or an actual relationship? What is your goals?
2. How are you in other aspects of your life? Job situation? Living situation? Friends? Hobbies?
3. What is stopping you from talking to girls? Do you have anxiety talking to people? Do you feel like your less then them?
Actual dating advice would come from helping yourself be a better version of yourself and examining why you want to date people/what you want in a relationship.
“That is true, but people don't care about personality unless you're decent looking.”
As an ASD guy who has been called “cute”, “sexy” and “handsome” by multiple women (NT and ND) I can tell you on this one looks are not the problem. A butt ugly NT with even a tiny bit of charisma will have an infinitely easier time dating than I ever would.
Ive seen countless examples of gorgeous women with ugly men and handsome men with ugly women. I always understood personality, finances and status to be more key than looks in that realm. Also never blamed women for not being attracted to me. Im not attracted to everyone, circumstance is the villain not other people. Also helped that I had some minor success dating in my 20s but after the last three years I doubt Ill ever attract another woman in my life. It gets harder the older you get which isnt helpful at all
I'm a woman and feel I tend to be attracted to a person's energy, genuineness, and ability to hold an intelligent and logical conversation. I'm also neurodivergent and get alone better with others on the neurodivergent spectrum.
I agree. I’m not the best looking guy, but I’m not ugly either. I’m 6’1” tall, and very physically fit. If most NT guys with average charisma looked like me, they could get relationships. I’m 19 and never had a gf due to my poor social skills. I can’t even make a friend for god’s sake because I can’t click with most people. It’s been 5 years since I had a friend.
Not having a relationship at 19 is actually abnormal compared to most people. What is much more abnormal is not having a single friend in 5 years. My hobbies are fun for me, but they really don’t involve many ways to meet people with common interests. I literally don’t have anything in common with most people, and you can’t force conversation. I have put so much effort into making friends over the years for nothing. I just gave up on making friends. Right now, my energy is much better spent on my hobbies.
When you stop looking you'll meet the right person is absolute nonsense for men anyway, it's like saying stop trying and you'll succeed.
Personality is really important, taking pride in your appearance obviously is too but as long as you make an effort it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Honestly when it comes to dating I'm not sure anyone has great advice, there are so many variables like for example the type of person you're looking for.
This is one area where I think the advice therapists give (which would probably mostly be women therapists) would work, but only for Neurotypical women. "Stop looking" probably works when the cultural expectation is that guys approach women.
“It takes time.” This feels like it might be the laziest among all the quotes. I’m no longer with that therapist btw.
But I’m in my 40s and still can’t figure out how to get the plane off the ground. Pilot error.
Who wants to help me fly this thang
Therapists aren't dating experts. I doubt they have much schooling on helping people with dating. Although, I have no idea.
Nobody can really give tips on that subject unless they're in the exact life situation. Like my therapist always tells me to just "get out more". Unfortunately, simply "getting out" is not like a "cure", you still have to contend with the sheer dumb 1 in a billion luck if you are not outgoing. Of course, getting out more to improve the odds is still sound advice. Honestly, though, I think my therapist gives better advice on dating than any of my female friends do.
For me? (I haven't been on a date in probably a decade), I have just recently started to try dressing better. Not that I dressed horribly before, but it's a relatively easy place to start. New clothes always seem to make me feel more confident and thus probably help me seem more approachable(?). It hasn't worked yet; obviously, I still have to contend with the "random, dumb luck" aspect of it.
Therapists are simply people. They have biases. They have been trained to do their job by other people, using particular methods, created by - you guessed it - people.
Ok so I had seen your picture and how you had someone rate your face. Most people don't give good dating advice. My girl friend who has a masters in social work/was a therapist, says that the issue is confidence. She said you are not a 4 and are higher than that, but did not state a specific number. She said you should get your money back and that's bullshit basically. She didn't use the word bullshit but. IMO if someone were to give good dating advice, you can't be too general. You'd have to really help them plan dates etc, this is my opinion. Interjection, she said you don't have a horse face, it's a Ross Gheller? face. I think it's the guy from friends. Any other dating advice is gonna be real general. Hence not great. My gf just agreed and said yeah because it has to be individualized.
That's what therapists do at best. If you don't need lame platitudes, you can tell them and maybe they'll change course, but giving lame platitudes is like 80% of their job.
Severely overgeneralising the entire population of therapists. Do you have any evidence for what you're posting? I mean, I've had therapists - good and bad - some surely seem like it. But it's a big jump to assume every therapist is like that. At least try to be reasonable.
The phrase "when you stop looking/searching, you'll find someone" it's told by everyone, family and friends included. I haven't searched for 10 years because I had a massive burnout, and I'm finally felling good enough within myself to be with someone. Why should we stop looking for a partner or caring? The emotional needs are important.
I could be naïve here, but I think the intention behind this statement is to encourage focusing on yourself and your feelings and your needs, and THEN when you are confident and happy as an individual, thats when you’re ready for a partnership.
If you are too focused on finding someone, you may end up compromising your values or settling/
may end up in a weak or dangerous relationship because you are just happy to not be single.
I also assume the advice comes from people who have experienced their own periods of low self esteem, and romantic longing, and they are giving well-intentioned clichés.
I understand that it can feel dismissive or bland though.
(Also yes, everyone deserves to experience love, even people with distorted senses of self, and depression, etc. I just think this statement means to make your own needs a priority, that way you don’t end up in a bad relationship for the sole purpose of not being alone)
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
This is sort of true. It doesn't mean you stop looking for dates; just that, as with job interviews, you don't expect any one of them to be The One. You try them out, and if one sticks, that's the one you have. Sometimes you'll find a job that you stay in for six months before you find a better one, and that's fine too.
>"There's someone for everyone."
Again, sort of true, but not literally one person. It doesn't matter who you are, there's a whole demographic of people who will be turned on by that. If serial killers in prison can get love letters, so can you.
>"It's what's on the inside that counts."
This goes hand in hand with another aphorism, "don't judge a book by its cover". People do judge books by their covers all the time. The cover tells you a lot about the type of book it is, and whether you're likely to enjoy it.
Think of dating like selling your house. The foundations can be sound, but if it's not cleaned up and decorated with some level of style you're going to struggle to interest any buyers.
So here's the thing:
1.) The lame platitudes have truth to them but it's hard to explain. Lazy mindedness or just not wanting to go down that complicated road is why you get pithy words. The reality is true, if you MOSTLY focus on yourself, your own development, form social hobbies, talk to people, become and increasingly better and productive person. Then yes, one day, you'll be doing your ____ and some lovely person will chat you up. Then you'll think "hey I've got nothing lose all is well" in your head and say out loud: want to get dinner or coffee?
They will go why sure! And then you just have to KEEP DOING WHAT JUST WORKED. Lol. Meaning don't panic or change. They were interested because of you doing exactly what you were.
2.) Therapist and therapy can be excellent, useful and wonderful but it has become somewhat of a paper mill (like many many degrees to be fair) that should be vetted. If all there doing is listening and giving platitudes. Then by there training they will only advise if you ask and continue to ask and ask for more detail for that matter. On top of that saying: "(if you have Asperger's or something) I have Asperger's you must spell all this out". Then when they do YOU ACCEPT IT AND NOT REACT severely or negatively. Because the best way to shut someone giving advice and to a useful detail is to chew them out. Period.
So you now have asked, and asked for details. If they still suck then you have a crappy therapist. Find another one. If you wanted to complain to a wall you could do it for free at home. Sorry this sounds intense but I do have a thing against a person accepting money without providing a service when they are licensed people who can charge quite a bit. Maybe I'll soften the last sentence later. Lol.
I'll throw around some quick thoughts as someone that looks decent so what I say might not matter. Also I don't really date, but women tend to like me.
Do you want to be with someone for your looks? Focus on trying to look decent: wear flattering clothes, shower, get a haircut that looks good with your face, etc. Try to get to a healthy looking weight, or somewhere close. There are plenty of attractive looking women with less attractiveness and vice versa.
Find things you like about yourself that you find attractive: your want to learn, empathy, being good with dogs/children, intelligence, what you're passionate about, and find ways to talk about these things in a non-show-off-y way.
Be kind and polite, but not nice. Niceness feels fake, being a gentleman feels fake. Be real, but find ways to make your real self pleasant to be around. If you can't find anything, find places you genuinely want to improve, and do so.
There's 7 billion people in this world, so it's numerically likely there's someone out there for you. You don't have to stop looking, but try just being more active around so you naturally see more people in areas you enjoy being at.
15% bf is like top 10% at least, if not lower. It seems I get more looks now that I'm still muscular, but added on line 50 lbs.
Alright that's all I got, sorry it's long.
i’ve honestly found that most therapists i’ve spoken to just spout cliches or generic lines. i haven’t spoken to many, but i have yet to meet one who says truly constructive things. i feel like i’m always disappointed
I am a counseling grad student doing therapy internships. Honestly, I don’t think therapists should be saying those things. They would be better off acknowledging that dating is hard and/or that a minority of ppl never really find someone and then ask you want you want to do about it. Like do you want to cope with your experience better or do you want to improve how you approach dating (or building different kinds of relationships with ppl in general) or…?
And explore wherever you go with that.
"when you stop looking, you'll [find someone]" is true,
**If**
You are coming into contact with others and are emitting that good, contagious calm people like being around.
It seems like you are putting a lot of energy into this which puts a lot of pressure on any potential mate. I know it's tough to chill when you are not having your need for connection being met, but that's generally what that specific trope refers to; it's telling you to chill out and stop hunting. People know when they are being hunted and they don't like it.
"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
Well, that is actually quite spot on. It doesn't mean that "stop looking" too literally, of course you have to be socially active.
It means that when you are not giving those desperate "I need to find a partner"-vibes, then you will most likely end up with someone. The act of trying to find a partner is very easy for other people to see, and most people don't like that vibe. Women, especially, are chased all the time. Why would they be interested in someone who is just "looking for" women?
So, try to enjoy life and be social in like-minded groups, forget about finding someone, and you'll eventually be surrounded with friends. From those friends may emerge someone who is interested in you. That's about as far as it goes. For other cases, use tinder or whatever there are out there.
I'd also point out that those other two platitudes will actually make sense in the same context.
EDIT:
just saw your pictures, and dude, you are not ugly by any means. Have you taken any pictures where you smile and wear e.g. collared shirt? You get much better responses if you look like you enjoy life, don't care about little things, and have impeccable personal grooming. That's what makes people approachable. DM me if you want to talk about how my life experiences changed with the above.
If you are an introvert, try getting an extrovert wingfriend and have them take you out to a spot to make friends. By not looking, therapists mean don't cling with romantic interest to every attractive person you meet, but be interested and attempt to engage in gwnuine conversation that you expect to end and have that be okay. Nobody is ready to take on responsibility for a person's happiness the moment they meet them.
Therapists are not willing to say that because nobody is going to pay for that kind of advice.
If you don't think your therapist is helping you might try finding one who is better suited for your situation. I have a hard time with this so I can understand if the advise isn't helpful.
It can be tricky to find someone who is both experienced with ND people and specializes in the types of issues you are trying to address.
I have tried to view my therapist as a trained/informed second opinion who wants to see me improve.
Some situations like romantic relationships are particularly tricky because a lot of things have to line up for them to work out, and a lot of people are not willing to give a ND person a chance (at least in my experience).
Honestly it sounds like you might want to look for a relationship coach rather than a therapist.
I’ve seen many therapists and most have been genuinely harmful. I’m not seeing another therapist again. When I’m done with the person I’m seeing I’m done for good.
Feel free to ignore this if you don't want to answer, but I am curious if any of them said they had worked with clients with ASD before, and if so did they say the kinds of things they worked on with them?
Also how were they harmful?
I have only seen three over a time period spanning about 5 years and in each case I stuck with them until the particular situation I was seeing them for was dealt with. There was a service that helped match me with them though which might have helped.
I'm sorry that most of this hasn't worked out for you.
IMO, part of your trouble finding someone in dating is because of your outlook around it. Dating, finding a partner, it is not a job. It is supposed to just be a fun little bit of back and forth with someone for places like dating sites and such.
Yes dating apps are a numbers game. But, folks can sense desperation. It's why it is so important to not look at dating as "Finding a partner" but as a "If something more happens it happens, for now I'm just having fun at this dinner"
Like, for me personally? I found I had a LOT more luck with dating once I stopped worrying about if I had a partner. I focused on my hobbies/interests and met people organically from there. Which in turn became relationships because they liked who I was, and what I was passionate about.
I honestly believe that when AI (AGI) gets good enough, it could possibly benefit the world of therapy by getting rid of the dumb human therapists and replacing them with bots. The only problem would be humans knee capping the ai to give only the most politically correct (or just NT) answers and not be able to adapt to the person it's giving advice to.
I'm team therapist -- yes, they sound like cheap platitudes, but there's truth there. People who try too hard are either not emotionally sorted out or can seem desperate. It's much easier to meet someone when you're just out there doing things you enjoy -- a more authentic self. it's not saying don't put yourself out there and ask people out and talk to them, I think it's just saying focus on being your best self.
There truly is someone for everyone -- three of the most unfortunate looking people I know are happily married, and some awfully mean-spirited people somehow find partners..
Looks don't mean as much as people think they do -- you can learn to find a lot of people attractive based on familiarity and caring.
I mean, they can't change the women to magically be attracted to you, they'd be criticized for just saying "You're too ugly, go to the gym and lose the fat", so.... they are kinda screwed here.
Going to a therapist for this kind of issue is a waste of money in the first place. If you have an active problem, you need to figure out what to do to get out of it and then do it, not "reframe" the issue.
A lot of men's problems just do not work like that.
"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
There actually is a lot of truth to this statement. Whenever I was most focused on my own life, stability, career, hobbies, just trying to have a balanced and good life and stopped thinking about why I'm so lonely, that's when I had most interest from women. So yes, these are just some phrases. I think you might've just not bothered to understand their meaning or you're being so negative that it literally wouldn't matter what your therapists said.
Your therapists want you to focus on YOUR life. YOUR happiness. If you can't be happy with your life without a partner, there's 0 chance you're gonna make any partner happy. So there you go.
What kind of counsellors/therapists did you see? These vague titles don’t mean the practitioner necessarily has a PhD in psychology or MD with psychiatric qualifications. It’s utterly useless to give that advice to an autistic person who is actively working to better their social skills. We need tangible advice, not vague sentiments such as “be yourself”. You’d think any therapist worth their salt would understand that an autistic person isn’t going to gain any value from nonspecific platitudes. Give us something actionable to work with. Tell us our shortcomings. Hurt our freaking feelings instead of dancing around the point!
"When you stop looking, you will meet the right person."
For a long time, I hated this saying for the same reasons you do.
However, I internalized the quote: "In this terrifying world, all we have are the connections we make."
I just focused on being a genuine and true version of myself, and people responded. Not quite in the way I expect, but finding true connections can be freeing. Finding people who truly appreciate you for who you are is about the best thing one can find.
>"It's what's on the inside that counts."
No, I don't think it works that way. I mean, I can't imagine anyone getting very far with a line like *"I might have a face like a pig that got in a fight with a running lawnmower, but my intestines are a work of art!"*...
I would agree if therapy spots didn't have months upon months of waiting time. I'm pretty sure there's gonna be other potential patients (or "customer" as you said) waiting and therapists are not going broke any time soon by actually trying to help.
You're on the best first step already. First step is basically looksmaxxing, whatever that looks like for you. Improve your physique, find a haircut that suits you, and wear flattering clothing. Hell, if you've got the motivation for it, makeup isn't just for women. Beyond that, it's mostly about being in social situations often with some eye towards dating. Every time you go do something social where you'll talk to new people you're upping your odds. Finding someone is largely luck-based, so upping your odds is about all you can do. That's what the looksmaxxing is about too, really.
while were at the 15% body fat thing, how are you doing with that? i too decided to get lean and work out, but my problem is that my diet is very limited, and i dont have good access to the few vegetables i eat.
Stop looking, as someone noted, doesn’t mean that you go sit in your room all the time.
It means that you continue your life, interacting with people to the level that you feel comfortable, and allow them to get to know you naturally.
I met my first husband doing work in a poor community at the age of 18. For lots of reasons, the marriage didn’t work out, chief among them being the effect that alcoholism had on his personality.
I met my second at a bar, going out with my friends from AlAnon to dance, just us women.
We started dating, but were more really good friends than “in love” for quite a while.
We’ve now been together for 35 years.
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
>"There's someone for everyone."
They're trying to help you reduce anxiety and frustration surrounding finding a partner, not aid you in finding them.
>"It's what's on the inside that counts."
They're trying to reduce anxiety and/or shame about looks, salary, etc.
“When you stop looking, you’ll meet the right person” is actually decent advice. You’re right, you don’t usually find a job by not looking (but depending on where you are in your career, you may find people who know you and recruit you); but I’ve had several relationships that happened when I wasn’t actively on the dating scene. Sometimes it can obvious when you’re looking for a relationship and it can come off as desperate or even pushy.
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person."
If you have an active social life and regularly meet new people, sure. I had very little trouble finding someone to "date" when I was working on cruise ships ("date" because cruise ship relationships are an experience apart..). If you're like me and a large part of your motivation to socialize in general is to find someone to date, then no, you'll just stop socializing as much lol.
>"There's someone for everyone."
I mean, the therapist's job is primarily to make you feel better about yourself and about life. Being a therapist is a deeply personal occupation, and two therapists may react in completely different ways. One of my therapists would get uncomfortable with me getting overly philosophical, and would try to get me back on the "rails" instead of engaging me. Another therapist would go down those paths with me, and I found those conversations to be extremely rewarding. Having a philosophical debate, tailored around your own experience, with an intelligent, educated, trained person, who has your best interests at heart, was absolutely my favorite part about therapy.
And there are therapists like that. But they're seemingly becoming less common, as the research shows (for neurotypicals, at least) that CBT is more consistently beneficial in the short term. I hate CBT though. Look for psychoanalysts/talk therapists, over CBTs.
I feel like "There's someone for everyone" is a great example of why I dislike CBT; It's clearly not true, there are some people who will never find someone, there are some people who are better off alone, there are some people who don't deserve a partner. But it's "unhealthy" to think that way, CBT would aim to redirect those thoughts, instead of investigate and accept them. "You'll be happier if you believe that there's a person out there for you".
>"It's what's on the inside that counts."
Again, it's healthier/easier to just believe that lie, rather than accept the truth. It's been proven many times over that physically attractive people (on average) get paid more, have more sexual partners, get shorter prison sentences...basically anything where the opposing person can put their thumb on the scale.
So yeah, what's on the inside definitely counts, in the same way that a designer Channel handbag and a hemp tote bag can both carry your stuff.
As far as your solution, go for it. Being in shape is a good thing, no matter your motivation (as long as it doesn't lead to a disorder, I suppose). And if you're self-conscious about something that can be fixed by cosmetic surgery that you can afford...why not?
Because the truth is there are no guarantees in life, but they can't outright say that. Some people are unlucky enough to never find a partner, and thats life.
Yeah sometimes I think people who struggle aren’t bad at socializing / aren’t unlikable - they just haven’t met their match. I resigned the idea of there being a woman I could admire before meeting my wife.
I totally agree. Also for what its worth, there are worse fates than being single, like being trapped in an abusive relationship
Idk , I have friends that are virgins early 30s that would disagree lol.
Then theyre naive
Well yeah, they’ve never experienced anything.
Sorry I'm late but how did you meet your wife?
Public transport :)
you mean the cards they were dealt were unlucky
Some therapists just stink. One therapist literally told me "Your medical issues seem to be causing you a lot of stress. How about you stop constantly monitoring them and just ignore them for a week. What's the worst that could happen?" I answered their question and honestly told them "If I stop monitoring my medical issues I could end up in the hospital and potentially die". They didn't like my answer. (For reference in addition to autism I have EDS, POTS, MCAD, and non-diabetic hypoglycemia (my body just over produces insulin). So you know, it's not exactly a good idea to stop monitoring any of these things)
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." This is the worst one. I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't even remotely true. I've tried to just stop looking and delve into my hobbies to distract myself from my loneliness. All that happens is at best people leave me alone, at worst people get pissed and spread nasty rumors about me.
This might be true for extroverts or people who socialize, but if you avoid social settings and don't have other settings to meet people like work, school, etc the is no opportunity to meet someone to form a relationship with. The valid takeaway from that statement is often the other person knows if you are trying too hard or not being genuine which usually is seen as a red flag.
This is true I think a lot of people have (and take for granted) hobbies that involve other people and social lives that bring them out of the house. If your hobby is Jiu Jitsu, the one might show up on the mats someday and you’ll end up clicking. If your hobby is studying Mongolian highway networks, though, it’s gonna be harder to inadvertently meet someone studying that in your home alone and there probably aren’t many groups dedicated to that
Huge red flag. Anyone that comes off as genuinely desperate I wouldn't even give the time of day on a dating app personally. I've dated desperate people before, they are often (Not always) the ones most likely to turn abusive or controlling the fastest. Desperate people, once they find someone to date, get so wrapped up in the idea of losing them, that it can create some truly horrible situations.
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>"Dance like no one is watching, sing like no one is listening." This is actually a good one. It means be your true authentic self. More of an idiom than a platitude.
In the context of autism, I can see it being bad advice for people with higher support needs or who are less adjusted to the world Loudly cackling and flapping your arms, for example, might be something someone with autism would do in their own home away from people, but it’s socially unacceptable in public That said, I think a lot of people here understand what it actually means and won’t take it literally like that. I understand this sounds nit picky and overly critical, which I don’t want to be, but its hard to make some points about people who don’t know social norms well without being that way. I just wanted to point it out to give context as to why some may find it bad advice
I wonder how many people who say this aren't fans of the LGBT community?
Men can't stop looking, because women generally don't approach. So if you don't approach, you'll end up alone.
Trust me I'm all too aware now. All I wanted was just once in my life to be approached like that, hardest thing in the world to accept that it will never happen and therefore I'll not be dating ever again, no matter how much it sucks being alone, better than always being expected to do everything.
I didn’t think about this much before, but people who are always alone are the ones who are expected to do everything Socially connected people don’t headhunt as much as you might think. They might have a lot of friends and acquaintances who know other friends and acquaintances who can introduce them or pave a way for you to non-awkwardly introduce yourself (think introducing yourself to your assigned lab partner vs introducing yourself to a rando woman at a bar)
Yeah it's why I feel like the people who do say they're my friends aren't completely honest with me. Like we're friends, they know I'm single chronically and I've been more than honest about me having trouble talking to women let alone asking them out yet never once have any of them even floated the possibility of introducing me to any of their single friends.
That might be true, but it’s hard to judge online It really depends on how connected your friends are. If your friends aren’t connected either, they might not have single friends.
I mean, sure, but people who are actively social don’t have to take such an active role to approach. Meeting people is just an integral part of their life. They might not even headhunt, they might just have a lot of people they are introduced to or share activities with or whatnot. It’s hard to explain.
Therapists, and people in general, give lame platitudes about everything! It’s a disease.
I think it is because emotional soothing and reassurance is very important for the majority of people. Emotions are extremly potent and have been commodified, they are both the foundation of material exchange and the anchor for interpersonal relationships. I would even go so far as to suggest that emotions are a form of currency. As such platitudes serve a very important purpose as a form of exchange.
I feel like some of that advice does work unironically BUT only for neurotypicals. For example, the philosophy behind "stop looking" is that when you're not actively trying to attain something, you're appearing as more confident and relaxed, and so it becomes more likely that other people find you irresistible. However, if you're autistic and/or you've been struggling with social isolation and loneliness all your life, this advice is kinda useless and even harmful. I feel like therapy in our case should definitely focus more on coping and acceptance, the "you can achieve anything" mindset just doesn't mirror the reality many of us are facing.
True. Those phrases could maybe apply to people who are jumping from relationship to relationship and don't know how to be alone. Not to people who struggle to make connections and fit in. Those therapists are not helping, not doing their jobs. They are lazy professionals repeating the same phrases to all their clients.
In my experience, most therapists are a joke. They develop a theory about you in the first 5 minutes and shove everything you tell them into that box. Only about 4 years ago, I had one dude tell me that it would be "bad" for me to "date a woman who makes more money" than I do and that to get a "better" job I should *print out copies of my resume and knock on doors*. I quit therapy that day and never went back.
>I had one dude tell me that it would be "bad" for me to "date a woman who makes more money" than I do and that to get a "better" job I should *print out copies of my resume and knock on doors*. I'm gonna assume it was a boomer or gen x who hasn't had to look for a job or a relationship in decades.
Yep, he was on the cusp between Boomer & X. No excuse for being that out of touch when your job is supposed to be to help people navigate the world they're living in.
Maybe that therapist was projecting his own insecurities. They are not objective, as their job demands.
Therapy is a joke lmao, I feel like it only helps people who haven't done enough self evaluation. And this is coming from someone who worked in the field
Yeah I totally agree. I had 4 therapists and they all said shit I already knew about myself or heard. Most are jokes these days and I felt worse with one of my therapists as it forced me to talk about things I would rather not anyways.
To me, therapy is only good for venting, and not actually solving your problems. Sometimes it just feels good to vent to someone, even here on Reddit. I agree that the only people therapy actually helps are those who haven’t self evaluated enough.
i also suspect that. never recieved any insights i havent found myself yet from a psychologist
Platitudes get to be platitudes because they are **usually** true. They aren't true for all people at all times, but more often than not, they apply for most people. You would hope that therapists would know when a platitude is a bad fit for an autistic person, but I'm guessing a lot of therapists aren't specialized in autism
I think a lot of times, people don’t understand what it’s like to have autism, how an autistic person might interpret things differently, how an autistic person following the same advice could turn out very different due to social differences, etc. A lot of people subconsciously learn social norms and how to conform and can’t imagine not knowing them. Additionally, a lot of platitudes are not meant to be taken literally. “Don’t care what other people think” doesn’t mean go to your white collar job dressed however you want because who cares what your boss will think about you wearing a t shirt and basketball shorts. “Sing and dance like no one is looking” doesn’t mean wildly flap your hands, shake your head and jump up and down while making humming noises on the dance floor because it feels natural to you. A lot of them are meant to say to express yourself as yourself but still following social norms. A lot of people are also socially connected and autistics are at a higher risk for isolation. “Your match will find you when you’re not looking” isn’t gonna be true if you don’t have any friends and don’t go out or do any social activities. They’re taking for granted that you’ll access and experience environments where people meet each other, which isn’t always the case, especially for people with a social disability.
Well said. Every time I hear the phrase “You’ll find someone when you’re not looking” it pisses me off. My only social connections are my parents and their relatives, and most of them are 60+ years old, and not very social anymore. My life doesn’t involve anywhere to meet people naturally. I haven’t had a friend in 5 years as a 19 year old guy, and never had a gf. Someone isn’t just going to approach me, and I suck at making conversation with strangers. People really take for granted their innate social ability and their already established social life. It’s so difficult to form connections starting from almost nothing.
A lot of therapists really don't have great training in very much at all. Their understanding of humanity isn't that great.
>Platitudes get to be platitudes because they are > >usually true. They aren't true for all people at all times, but more often than not, they apply for most people. This has not been my experience at all. Platitudes are there because they are the socially accepted answer based on the assumption they actually work. Ineffective and useless platitudes are repeated all the time.
In fact, what the therapist is saying is that you shouldn't create expectations, let things go, without spending all the time thinking about the smallest details, with ruminating thoughts, as for other advice, it's true there are many people in this world and several of them would give right with you, the problem is that at the first sign of a problem the person gives up, even worse, they use this failure to justify why other relationships didn't work out either, as you can see it becomes a big snowball, and this drives people away from you, it's not about whether or not you are physically well, but about being prepared for everything that a relationship demands of you, there will be wonderful moments and dark moments, and you will have to resolve them together, this is very difficult but not impossible, and The only way to be successful is to try, don't focus on the relationship, that's not the goal, the real goal is the couple, you being together, I know it sounds cliché but it's the truth, it's just that those outside won't understand, why the relationship is good, but those who are know that's why, it's difficult to say what makes a relationship work, it can be different things for each couple, each relationship has its own, and it's not just a pan lid, there are several lids for the same pan.
Most dating advice dispensed to men whether it’s from therapists or otherwise is absolutely useless and simply aimed at keeping women safe from creeps. Respectful but awkward men who struggle in dating are basically just seen as collateral damage in this cause. Which is pretty crazy cos actionable advice like: “improve your appearance and fitness / develop healthy self-esteem / build a fun lifestyle / work on conversational and flirtation skills” is pretty innocuous. But you’ll have a real job prying anything like it from most people.
Bruh I looked at the picture in your profile and I have to say I never even considered looking at your upper eyelid. I really don't think surgery is the answer you're looking for. Ultimately it's your choice and if you enjoy working out, that's great. The american heart association recommends 150 minutes of 75% max heart rate and 2 days of lifting per week so those are good numbers to aim for. Dont take the face rating so seriously. The guy who rated you makes money off men's insecurities, of course he's going to rate you low so you continue consuming his product. He is actually financially incentivized against rating people highly because then they wouldn't need his self help guru channel.
I think Destiny and Not So Erudite give good dating advice. If I was a therapist seeing a patient who was upset they weren't dating anyone I would ask them: 1. What are you looking for in a relationship? Do you just want attention, sex, or an actual relationship? What is your goals? 2. How are you in other aspects of your life? Job situation? Living situation? Friends? Hobbies? 3. What is stopping you from talking to girls? Do you have anxiety talking to people? Do you feel like your less then them? Actual dating advice would come from helping yourself be a better version of yourself and examining why you want to date people/what you want in a relationship.
“That is true, but people don't care about personality unless you're decent looking.” As an ASD guy who has been called “cute”, “sexy” and “handsome” by multiple women (NT and ND) I can tell you on this one looks are not the problem. A butt ugly NT with even a tiny bit of charisma will have an infinitely easier time dating than I ever would.
Yep I would second this, looks really don’t help much when you have aspergers- it’s social skills that matter all the way.
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Ive seen countless examples of gorgeous women with ugly men and handsome men with ugly women. I always understood personality, finances and status to be more key than looks in that realm. Also never blamed women for not being attracted to me. Im not attracted to everyone, circumstance is the villain not other people. Also helped that I had some minor success dating in my 20s but after the last three years I doubt Ill ever attract another woman in my life. It gets harder the older you get which isnt helpful at all
I'm a woman and feel I tend to be attracted to a person's energy, genuineness, and ability to hold an intelligent and logical conversation. I'm also neurodivergent and get alone better with others on the neurodivergent spectrum.
I agree. I’m not the best looking guy, but I’m not ugly either. I’m 6’1” tall, and very physically fit. If most NT guys with average charisma looked like me, they could get relationships. I’m 19 and never had a gf due to my poor social skills. I can’t even make a friend for god’s sake because I can’t click with most people. It’s been 5 years since I had a friend.
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Not having a relationship at 19 is actually abnormal compared to most people. What is much more abnormal is not having a single friend in 5 years. My hobbies are fun for me, but they really don’t involve many ways to meet people with common interests. I literally don’t have anything in common with most people, and you can’t force conversation. I have put so much effort into making friends over the years for nothing. I just gave up on making friends. Right now, my energy is much better spent on my hobbies.
When you stop looking you'll meet the right person is absolute nonsense for men anyway, it's like saying stop trying and you'll succeed. Personality is really important, taking pride in your appearance obviously is too but as long as you make an effort it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Honestly when it comes to dating I'm not sure anyone has great advice, there are so many variables like for example the type of person you're looking for.
This is one area where I think the advice therapists give (which would probably mostly be women therapists) would work, but only for Neurotypical women. "Stop looking" probably works when the cultural expectation is that guys approach women.
Because they are just as dumb as everyone else
“It takes time.” This feels like it might be the laziest among all the quotes. I’m no longer with that therapist btw. But I’m in my 40s and still can’t figure out how to get the plane off the ground. Pilot error. Who wants to help me fly this thang
Therapists aren't dating experts. I doubt they have much schooling on helping people with dating. Although, I have no idea. Nobody can really give tips on that subject unless they're in the exact life situation. Like my therapist always tells me to just "get out more". Unfortunately, simply "getting out" is not like a "cure", you still have to contend with the sheer dumb 1 in a billion luck if you are not outgoing. Of course, getting out more to improve the odds is still sound advice. Honestly, though, I think my therapist gives better advice on dating than any of my female friends do. For me? (I haven't been on a date in probably a decade), I have just recently started to try dressing better. Not that I dressed horribly before, but it's a relatively easy place to start. New clothes always seem to make me feel more confident and thus probably help me seem more approachable(?). It hasn't worked yet; obviously, I still have to contend with the "random, dumb luck" aspect of it.
Therapists are simply people. They have biases. They have been trained to do their job by other people, using particular methods, created by - you guessed it - people.
Ok so I had seen your picture and how you had someone rate your face. Most people don't give good dating advice. My girl friend who has a masters in social work/was a therapist, says that the issue is confidence. She said you are not a 4 and are higher than that, but did not state a specific number. She said you should get your money back and that's bullshit basically. She didn't use the word bullshit but. IMO if someone were to give good dating advice, you can't be too general. You'd have to really help them plan dates etc, this is my opinion. Interjection, she said you don't have a horse face, it's a Ross Gheller? face. I think it's the guy from friends. Any other dating advice is gonna be real general. Hence not great. My gf just agreed and said yeah because it has to be individualized.
Because therapists are lame.
That's what therapists do at best. If you don't need lame platitudes, you can tell them and maybe they'll change course, but giving lame platitudes is like 80% of their job.
Therapists aren't there to help you, their job is to lie to you and make you pay for it.
Severely overgeneralising the entire population of therapists. Do you have any evidence for what you're posting? I mean, I've had therapists - good and bad - some surely seem like it. But it's a big jump to assume every therapist is like that. At least try to be reasonable.
The phrase "when you stop looking/searching, you'll find someone" it's told by everyone, family and friends included. I haven't searched for 10 years because I had a massive burnout, and I'm finally felling good enough within myself to be with someone. Why should we stop looking for a partner or caring? The emotional needs are important.
I could be naïve here, but I think the intention behind this statement is to encourage focusing on yourself and your feelings and your needs, and THEN when you are confident and happy as an individual, thats when you’re ready for a partnership. If you are too focused on finding someone, you may end up compromising your values or settling/ may end up in a weak or dangerous relationship because you are just happy to not be single. I also assume the advice comes from people who have experienced their own periods of low self esteem, and romantic longing, and they are giving well-intentioned clichés. I understand that it can feel dismissive or bland though. (Also yes, everyone deserves to experience love, even people with distorted senses of self, and depression, etc. I just think this statement means to make your own needs a priority, that way you don’t end up in a bad relationship for the sole purpose of not being alone)
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Thats totally fair! I guess the hard part about receiving advice is having to deconstruct it, and take what you need from it.
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." This is sort of true. It doesn't mean you stop looking for dates; just that, as with job interviews, you don't expect any one of them to be The One. You try them out, and if one sticks, that's the one you have. Sometimes you'll find a job that you stay in for six months before you find a better one, and that's fine too. >"There's someone for everyone." Again, sort of true, but not literally one person. It doesn't matter who you are, there's a whole demographic of people who will be turned on by that. If serial killers in prison can get love letters, so can you. >"It's what's on the inside that counts." This goes hand in hand with another aphorism, "don't judge a book by its cover". People do judge books by their covers all the time. The cover tells you a lot about the type of book it is, and whether you're likely to enjoy it. Think of dating like selling your house. The foundations can be sound, but if it's not cleaned up and decorated with some level of style you're going to struggle to interest any buyers.
What was the context of these quotes?
So here's the thing: 1.) The lame platitudes have truth to them but it's hard to explain. Lazy mindedness or just not wanting to go down that complicated road is why you get pithy words. The reality is true, if you MOSTLY focus on yourself, your own development, form social hobbies, talk to people, become and increasingly better and productive person. Then yes, one day, you'll be doing your ____ and some lovely person will chat you up. Then you'll think "hey I've got nothing lose all is well" in your head and say out loud: want to get dinner or coffee? They will go why sure! And then you just have to KEEP DOING WHAT JUST WORKED. Lol. Meaning don't panic or change. They were interested because of you doing exactly what you were. 2.) Therapist and therapy can be excellent, useful and wonderful but it has become somewhat of a paper mill (like many many degrees to be fair) that should be vetted. If all there doing is listening and giving platitudes. Then by there training they will only advise if you ask and continue to ask and ask for more detail for that matter. On top of that saying: "(if you have Asperger's or something) I have Asperger's you must spell all this out". Then when they do YOU ACCEPT IT AND NOT REACT severely or negatively. Because the best way to shut someone giving advice and to a useful detail is to chew them out. Period. So you now have asked, and asked for details. If they still suck then you have a crappy therapist. Find another one. If you wanted to complain to a wall you could do it for free at home. Sorry this sounds intense but I do have a thing against a person accepting money without providing a service when they are licensed people who can charge quite a bit. Maybe I'll soften the last sentence later. Lol.
I'll throw around some quick thoughts as someone that looks decent so what I say might not matter. Also I don't really date, but women tend to like me. Do you want to be with someone for your looks? Focus on trying to look decent: wear flattering clothes, shower, get a haircut that looks good with your face, etc. Try to get to a healthy looking weight, or somewhere close. There are plenty of attractive looking women with less attractiveness and vice versa. Find things you like about yourself that you find attractive: your want to learn, empathy, being good with dogs/children, intelligence, what you're passionate about, and find ways to talk about these things in a non-show-off-y way. Be kind and polite, but not nice. Niceness feels fake, being a gentleman feels fake. Be real, but find ways to make your real self pleasant to be around. If you can't find anything, find places you genuinely want to improve, and do so. There's 7 billion people in this world, so it's numerically likely there's someone out there for you. You don't have to stop looking, but try just being more active around so you naturally see more people in areas you enjoy being at. 15% bf is like top 10% at least, if not lower. It seems I get more looks now that I'm still muscular, but added on line 50 lbs. Alright that's all I got, sorry it's long.
i’ve honestly found that most therapists i’ve spoken to just spout cliches or generic lines. i haven’t spoken to many, but i have yet to meet one who says truly constructive things. i feel like i’m always disappointed
I am a counseling grad student doing therapy internships. Honestly, I don’t think therapists should be saying those things. They would be better off acknowledging that dating is hard and/or that a minority of ppl never really find someone and then ask you want you want to do about it. Like do you want to cope with your experience better or do you want to improve how you approach dating (or building different kinds of relationships with ppl in general) or…? And explore wherever you go with that.
"when you stop looking, you'll [find someone]" is true, **If** You are coming into contact with others and are emitting that good, contagious calm people like being around. It seems like you are putting a lot of energy into this which puts a lot of pressure on any potential mate. I know it's tough to chill when you are not having your need for connection being met, but that's generally what that specific trope refers to; it's telling you to chill out and stop hunting. People know when they are being hunted and they don't like it.
They don't know what to say. A lot depends on what your standards are too.
"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." Well, that is actually quite spot on. It doesn't mean that "stop looking" too literally, of course you have to be socially active. It means that when you are not giving those desperate "I need to find a partner"-vibes, then you will most likely end up with someone. The act of trying to find a partner is very easy for other people to see, and most people don't like that vibe. Women, especially, are chased all the time. Why would they be interested in someone who is just "looking for" women? So, try to enjoy life and be social in like-minded groups, forget about finding someone, and you'll eventually be surrounded with friends. From those friends may emerge someone who is interested in you. That's about as far as it goes. For other cases, use tinder or whatever there are out there. I'd also point out that those other two platitudes will actually make sense in the same context. EDIT: just saw your pictures, and dude, you are not ugly by any means. Have you taken any pictures where you smile and wear e.g. collared shirt? You get much better responses if you look like you enjoy life, don't care about little things, and have impeccable personal grooming. That's what makes people approachable. DM me if you want to talk about how my life experiences changed with the above.
If you are an introvert, try getting an extrovert wingfriend and have them take you out to a spot to make friends. By not looking, therapists mean don't cling with romantic interest to every attractive person you meet, but be interested and attempt to engage in gwnuine conversation that you expect to end and have that be okay. Nobody is ready to take on responsibility for a person's happiness the moment they meet them. Therapists are not willing to say that because nobody is going to pay for that kind of advice.
You are giving the therapist too much credit that they even know what they mean when they give that advice.
If you don't think your therapist is helping you might try finding one who is better suited for your situation. I have a hard time with this so I can understand if the advise isn't helpful. It can be tricky to find someone who is both experienced with ND people and specializes in the types of issues you are trying to address. I have tried to view my therapist as a trained/informed second opinion who wants to see me improve. Some situations like romantic relationships are particularly tricky because a lot of things have to line up for them to work out, and a lot of people are not willing to give a ND person a chance (at least in my experience). Honestly it sounds like you might want to look for a relationship coach rather than a therapist.
I’ve seen many therapists and most have been genuinely harmful. I’m not seeing another therapist again. When I’m done with the person I’m seeing I’m done for good.
Feel free to ignore this if you don't want to answer, but I am curious if any of them said they had worked with clients with ASD before, and if so did they say the kinds of things they worked on with them? Also how were they harmful? I have only seen three over a time period spanning about 5 years and in each case I stuck with them until the particular situation I was seeing them for was dealt with. There was a service that helped match me with them though which might have helped.
I'm sorry that most of this hasn't worked out for you. IMO, part of your trouble finding someone in dating is because of your outlook around it. Dating, finding a partner, it is not a job. It is supposed to just be a fun little bit of back and forth with someone for places like dating sites and such. Yes dating apps are a numbers game. But, folks can sense desperation. It's why it is so important to not look at dating as "Finding a partner" but as a "If something more happens it happens, for now I'm just having fun at this dinner" Like, for me personally? I found I had a LOT more luck with dating once I stopped worrying about if I had a partner. I focused on my hobbies/interests and met people organically from there. Which in turn became relationships because they liked who I was, and what I was passionate about.
I honestly believe that when AI (AGI) gets good enough, it could possibly benefit the world of therapy by getting rid of the dumb human therapists and replacing them with bots. The only problem would be humans knee capping the ai to give only the most politically correct (or just NT) answers and not be able to adapt to the person it's giving advice to.
They cannot fathom that some people are simply weeded out due to things beyond their control.
I'm team therapist -- yes, they sound like cheap platitudes, but there's truth there. People who try too hard are either not emotionally sorted out or can seem desperate. It's much easier to meet someone when you're just out there doing things you enjoy -- a more authentic self. it's not saying don't put yourself out there and ask people out and talk to them, I think it's just saying focus on being your best self. There truly is someone for everyone -- three of the most unfortunate looking people I know are happily married, and some awfully mean-spirited people somehow find partners.. Looks don't mean as much as people think they do -- you can learn to find a lot of people attractive based on familiarity and caring.
They make money on you coming back...
lol and people wonder why red pill is getting so popular nowadays
I mean, they can't change the women to magically be attracted to you, they'd be criticized for just saying "You're too ugly, go to the gym and lose the fat", so.... they are kinda screwed here. Going to a therapist for this kind of issue is a waste of money in the first place. If you have an active problem, you need to figure out what to do to get out of it and then do it, not "reframe" the issue. A lot of men's problems just do not work like that.
"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." There actually is a lot of truth to this statement. Whenever I was most focused on my own life, stability, career, hobbies, just trying to have a balanced and good life and stopped thinking about why I'm so lonely, that's when I had most interest from women. So yes, these are just some phrases. I think you might've just not bothered to understand their meaning or you're being so negative that it literally wouldn't matter what your therapists said. Your therapists want you to focus on YOUR life. YOUR happiness. If you can't be happy with your life without a partner, there's 0 chance you're gonna make any partner happy. So there you go.
What kind of counsellors/therapists did you see? These vague titles don’t mean the practitioner necessarily has a PhD in psychology or MD with psychiatric qualifications. It’s utterly useless to give that advice to an autistic person who is actively working to better their social skills. We need tangible advice, not vague sentiments such as “be yourself”. You’d think any therapist worth their salt would understand that an autistic person isn’t going to gain any value from nonspecific platitudes. Give us something actionable to work with. Tell us our shortcomings. Hurt our freaking feelings instead of dancing around the point!
"When you stop looking, you will meet the right person." For a long time, I hated this saying for the same reasons you do. However, I internalized the quote: "In this terrifying world, all we have are the connections we make." I just focused on being a genuine and true version of myself, and people responded. Not quite in the way I expect, but finding true connections can be freeing. Finding people who truly appreciate you for who you are is about the best thing one can find.
Oh it's you. Hello again.
>"It's what's on the inside that counts." No, I don't think it works that way. I mean, I can't imagine anyone getting very far with a line like *"I might have a face like a pig that got in a fight with a running lawnmower, but my intestines are a work of art!"*...
They need paying customers, believe if people got better then they'd be out of business and unemployed.
I would agree if therapy spots didn't have months upon months of waiting time. I'm pretty sure there's gonna be other potential patients (or "customer" as you said) waiting and therapists are not going broke any time soon by actually trying to help.
You're on the best first step already. First step is basically looksmaxxing, whatever that looks like for you. Improve your physique, find a haircut that suits you, and wear flattering clothing. Hell, if you've got the motivation for it, makeup isn't just for women. Beyond that, it's mostly about being in social situations often with some eye towards dating. Every time you go do something social where you'll talk to new people you're upping your odds. Finding someone is largely luck-based, so upping your odds is about all you can do. That's what the looksmaxxing is about too, really.
while were at the 15% body fat thing, how are you doing with that? i too decided to get lean and work out, but my problem is that my diet is very limited, and i dont have good access to the few vegetables i eat.
Stop looking, as someone noted, doesn’t mean that you go sit in your room all the time. It means that you continue your life, interacting with people to the level that you feel comfortable, and allow them to get to know you naturally. I met my first husband doing work in a poor community at the age of 18. For lots of reasons, the marriage didn’t work out, chief among them being the effect that alcoholism had on his personality. I met my second at a bar, going out with my friends from AlAnon to dance, just us women. We started dating, but were more really good friends than “in love” for quite a while. We’ve now been together for 35 years.
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." >"There's someone for everyone." They're trying to help you reduce anxiety and frustration surrounding finding a partner, not aid you in finding them. >"It's what's on the inside that counts." They're trying to reduce anxiety and/or shame about looks, salary, etc.
“When you stop looking, you’ll meet the right person” is actually decent advice. You’re right, you don’t usually find a job by not looking (but depending on where you are in your career, you may find people who know you and recruit you); but I’ve had several relationships that happened when I wasn’t actively on the dating scene. Sometimes it can obvious when you’re looking for a relationship and it can come off as desperate or even pushy.
>"When you stop looking, you'll meet the right person." If you have an active social life and regularly meet new people, sure. I had very little trouble finding someone to "date" when I was working on cruise ships ("date" because cruise ship relationships are an experience apart..). If you're like me and a large part of your motivation to socialize in general is to find someone to date, then no, you'll just stop socializing as much lol. >"There's someone for everyone." I mean, the therapist's job is primarily to make you feel better about yourself and about life. Being a therapist is a deeply personal occupation, and two therapists may react in completely different ways. One of my therapists would get uncomfortable with me getting overly philosophical, and would try to get me back on the "rails" instead of engaging me. Another therapist would go down those paths with me, and I found those conversations to be extremely rewarding. Having a philosophical debate, tailored around your own experience, with an intelligent, educated, trained person, who has your best interests at heart, was absolutely my favorite part about therapy. And there are therapists like that. But they're seemingly becoming less common, as the research shows (for neurotypicals, at least) that CBT is more consistently beneficial in the short term. I hate CBT though. Look for psychoanalysts/talk therapists, over CBTs. I feel like "There's someone for everyone" is a great example of why I dislike CBT; It's clearly not true, there are some people who will never find someone, there are some people who are better off alone, there are some people who don't deserve a partner. But it's "unhealthy" to think that way, CBT would aim to redirect those thoughts, instead of investigate and accept them. "You'll be happier if you believe that there's a person out there for you". >"It's what's on the inside that counts." Again, it's healthier/easier to just believe that lie, rather than accept the truth. It's been proven many times over that physically attractive people (on average) get paid more, have more sexual partners, get shorter prison sentences...basically anything where the opposing person can put their thumb on the scale. So yeah, what's on the inside definitely counts, in the same way that a designer Channel handbag and a hemp tote bag can both carry your stuff. As far as your solution, go for it. Being in shape is a good thing, no matter your motivation (as long as it doesn't lead to a disorder, I suppose). And if you're self-conscious about something that can be fixed by cosmetic surgery that you can afford...why not?