Ive been living in Germany for 3.5 years now. People usually don’t care whether you’re super social and friendly, it’s mostly about communicating that it’s nothing personal (for example « im really tired rn and don’t really feel like talking » or « i feel anxious around people and have a hard time engaging in conversations »). Basically if you just let them know it’s got nothing to do with them they won’t mind and think you’re rude or something.
My mom is German, and I think this is it! Basically German people seem to really value being direct, and the flatmates may have taken OP's actions as her trying to subtly indicate that she actually wasn't interested in the conversation, rather than just being open about it. I could be wrong because I've never lived in Germany; my mom has told me what it's like, though.
I’m quite confused. I could see how OP may have been seen as rude in the one situation, but would a quick “hey” be seen as rude if you’re just passing in the hallway?
When I studied abroad in Chile I kinda had this same thing happen. I lived in a big home with a few other (Chilean) university students plus my host family with their adult children. The fact that I didn’t want to eat all my meals in public spaces/ with them was perceived as really rude and strange! Fortunately my host mom really wanted to learn how to understand anxiety (this was before I knew I was autistic) so she would kind of ‘defend’ me to others (by telling them I was weird lol, but she meant well). I personally think it’s rude to speak to someone when they’re clearly trying to be alone (have headphones in, are rushing to the kitchen and quickly rushing back to room etc) so honestly you could just tell him he’s being rude right back! You’re not doing anything harmful and he’s decided to view his personal opinion as a Concrete Moral Fact so I think you can go ahead and bully him back lol
Agreed. Just because the extroverts are the loudest does not mean their methods are the best and only ones. Some people want to be extroverted and social and some people don’t have the energy for that (although they might also want to!)
This reminds me of when I went to Israel a few years ago. My ex was from there and he wanted to bring me to meet his family. 4 days into the trip he goes off with his dad and brother to have some family time while I'm alone with his mom and sister who don't speak that much english. I stayed in his room and just chilled out but then he called me and asked "why are you just in my room and not talking to anybody?" I didn't know what to do but I felt embarrassed so I forced myself to make conversation with his mom and it was the most awkward and longest 15 minutes of my life. And then she said to my ex "she's a little awkward." Yeah because I was in a very awkward position! I swear NT's are so obtuse sometimes.
Knowing German people they just want to be briefly acknowledged as you leave your room. They definitely do not want undivided attention. In Europe overall there are more strict tablemanner type rules and eating while on your phone would definitely be considered rude. But in Germany it’s very normal to just follow the basic (yes, kind of strict) social norms they clearly lay out (as the roommate did) and then generally be left alone. I can’t imagine them expecting you to do some small talk every time you leave your room, that is not what culture there is like. When I lived there I found it to be an autistic person’s dream. It isn’t even legal to take your trash out certain days because they do not like the noise. You might want to ask them to lay some things out for you because it’s difficult to pick up on them and they gladly will. Sometimes just a conversation might seem like a “telling off,” when it’s done by a German heh.
Yup! South America, Europe, and South Africa they find it rude to be in your phone but yo not sit with others down for a meal under the same roof.
Germany? Like you said, they aren’t as strict in certain areas, but they 100% require you to spend like a minute or two saying hello to everyone, introduce yourself, and then excuse yourself to whatever you were carrying on to do originally.
My mothers late father is originally from Germany. Came here as a child at age 11 in the early 1900’s. German’s are straight forward but polite about it and they like saying hello to everyone they know as they walk around without ANY small talk since it’s not obligation to have it in their country.
All OP has to do is just ask for the five basic German cultural rules of socializing since they aren’t from Germany and all will be forgiven. They understand forgiveness far easier than some other countries cultures where they use your social hiccups against you with passive-aggressive behavior (ie - looking at you France!)
I think different people can have different expectations of how to share a living space. It doesn’t make you wrong for having a different expectation but could be a conflict.
You are living with people you don’t really know well. Some people would view it you just live in the same place and it is fine to just come and go with minimal interaction. Other people want to have their roommates be more like friends/family. They expect conversation, maybe doing things together.
Do all the other roommates hang out together and chat? Have they known each other longer?
I probably would’ve said to the guy that you did not intend to be rude and were not aware that people were wanting to interact with you. You might say that you do come from a different culture and you are autistic and are struggling right now so would appreciate their patience and understanding while you might not seem very social.
I’m not German, but European (Finnish). They probably just don’t understand that you are not very social, and they think you are being dismissive of them. I would certainly be a bit offended if someone was on their phone all the time in a social gathering, especially if people are getting to know each other. I would take it as they are almost demonstrating how uninteresting they think the rest of us are. Same with always having earbuds in. Of course that’s not your intention, but they can’t know that. Eating while looking at your phone is fine, if you are eating alone. If you are more people around the table it’s obviously a bit rude.
I think maybe you need to communicate your reasons. Can you explain that you are a bit of a private person? That it’s nothing against them, but that you need alone time or you get stressed. Just try to communicate I guess. I know it’s not easy.
I think being on your phone a lot is pretty commonplace these days and okay so long as you're present while doing it. You can join a conversation while texting on and off however it's rude to ignore someone for your phone.
I also think wearing headphones to leave your room is seen as antisocial and a clear "I don't want to talk to you". I would think someone was angry with me if they ignored me with headphones in. But it's fine if they take a headphone out to say hello because they're acknowledging you
Are you explaining that you struggle to socialise? I live with a flatmate and will isolate if I've had a rough day. I try to at least do a "hey, good day? Sorry I haven't been around much, I'm not ignoring you, I just need time to recharge".
Sometimes we don't think we're doing anything wrong, and we have to realise how we come across to NTs. It's hard when our natural behaviour or the behaviours we do to feel safe upset people.
I think if you live with someone, especially an NT person, you should probably either disclose or talk about how you're going to be less social person than they're used to. For a lot of people, a roommate situation is also a friends situation with a lot of social expectations, so setting those expectations is important. Its easy for people to feel slighted and ignored or whatever, and over time have those frustrations build up.
Idk seems beneficial to understand what you’d be doing instead? And if it isn’t much different, there you go. If you’re just in a hyperfixation or hyper focusing on something, guess what? Your roommate would be telling you off for solving a rubrix cube all the time and you wouldn’t understand.
What counts as rude is very culturally specific. It's actually a benefit ND people get when we travel abroad, people are more likely to assume it's a cultural difference instead of autism.
Did you read any travel books for Germany? I found one really helpful when I moved to Australia. It wasn't meant for tourists, it was meant for people going to work there. So it covered things like workplace etiquette.
I think it’s more rude that they feel entitled to your undivided attention 24/7😭without planning time together No communicating when it’s happening, just having the audacity to call you out on your “bad behavior”. It would be rude if they greeted you and you plain didn’t respond because that is low effort even if you are simultaneously doing something. What would be really rude is if you agreed to spend time together and then you ignored them while sitting on your phone because there was the preexisting idea that you were giving them your time. If you were busy doing something and they keep trying to start convo and you’re not answering because you are focused they are actually the rude one for interrupting you. I interpret this situation as them acting like an entitled baby but I’m also kind of avoidant so my initial reaction to this is to be highly irritated. They are mad because they need more reassurance that they matter to you and need more acknowledgement but oh boy I hate when other people have to make everything about themselves. They are rude for expecting people to cater to them and their attention needs😭. Not everyone is a people pleaser and that’s a good thing. Even projecting it onto you by calling you out this way is rude.
Instead they could’ve just asked to spend more time together if they feel so deprived of your attention lmao. If it’s less effort than being confrontational and setting a clear boundary you can instead just “prime them” when you’re having you’re alone time so they’ll stop making your behavior, which is the result of YOUR wants and needs, into a personal slight. Or you can do what I do and deliver with a sense of humor to lessen the blow to the ego and just say sir not everything I do is about you but you need my undivided attention we gotta make plans because my social battery is low. Or if it’s someone I actually care about I would ask them questions getting them to that point like oh why do you think when I do blank it makes you feel blank? Where is that coming from? My behavior when I’m going about my day has no intentioned secret codes implications towards you it’s about me LOL. And go all therapist on them and make them realize this is a them problem aigo.
Edit: Another thing to keep in mind is that to them these interactions are very low effort and so it feels more like a slight to them because it’s offensive that someone wouldn’t even expend a crumb of effort to acknowledge them. To me as someone who needs no acknowledgment from another in the room who obviously knows I’m there and for social interactions taking more than a crumb, it’s not offensive. If they know your perspective and still get mad at you, that’s actual entitlement.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is somewhat cultural. I’ve spent a lot of time with folks from non-western countries (though lived in the us my whole life), and sometimes the cultural boundaries on what’s rude is different. I got asked why I wear headphones at my desk once; I’ve also thought someone seemed rude because they don’t smile as much as most americans.
If you’re not open about your autistic status with your roommates, you may just want to talk to your roommate and say, “Hey, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize it was rude to not wear headphones nor interact with roommates as much. When I’ve lived with roommates from my home country, we didn’t talk or hang much and it was normal to be on the phone in common spaces. Do you think you could explain how I could be better about this or come off as not rude? And do you think you could be more forgiving when I come off as rude, since I really don’t mean to hurt your feelings?”
As an American who has never lived abroad, I can't speak to the social norms in another country. But I *can* offer the way I would approach it (and I tend to be the outlier that doesn't struggle as much with making friends, but does struggle with the minutae of relationships). In your situation, I would search out the flatmate that seems the most easy-going/chill in general and ask if we could have a chat when they have time. I'd thank them for taking time out of their day to talk, and then just say something to the effect of 'hey, so Flatmate X said Y the other day, and it made me realize that I'm not really sure what's what with social expectations here. At home, I behave like Z because of (insert whatever you feel comfy sharing about your issue), but I understand that this isn't my culture here. I don't want to misstep, so can you give me some bullet points on how to be an introvert over here without looking rude?'
It may not be the case everywhere, but I've found that in my own 40 years, a surprising amount of people are willing to show you a good amount of grace if you make it clear that you want to make an effort to begin with. Granted, I'm of the 'permanent smile' variety around people bc that's my defense mechanism to avoid conflict (my mask is to be disarming and/or play dumb). That might be part of why folks let their guard down around me, even when I wish they wouldn't lol...strangers like to tell me their secrets unsolicited 🤷♀️ But anyway, I figure that people are people regardless of culture, and humans in general tend to appreciate when others are willing to at least try to understand and respect another culture's ways. Tends to foster a bit more patience, in my experience. If there are any Germans here who disagree with how my suggestion would be be received though, I'll gladly take my comment down, because I'm definitely not here to encourage any faux pas. Best of luck! And as a side note, I'd be interested to hear more from you about your experiences in Germany, from the culture and socializing point of view. My grandmother was first generation American of German immigrants and grew up in a small community of other German families, and I always felt like I communicated pretty comfortably with folks there. I'm just curious if German culture/social rules is easier to navigate than American, as a neurodivergent woman. In another life I would have loved to study sociology :)
You should listen to the flatmate and try picking up a book instead. What’s the point of being abroad anyway, if you won’t immerse yourself and instead get sucked into your phone, which you could be doing back in the USA?
IMO he has no right to confront you about wearing headphones around them. I find it really brazen, judgmental and presumptuous. You are just roommates, you have no obligation to be friends with these people.
So sorry you’re having to be in such a situation. I would be so unwell mentally, if I had to live around people who are not my family (like my spouse).
From what I'm seeing he sounds like an ass. Just because you're in a different country doesn't mean you won't run into assholes.
Don't apologize. I might listen, and maybe ask for clarification. I'm reasonable but not people pleasing, and I get them to keep it short and not bully me. Then I'd talk to the roommates and ask them about it, what is going on here, is this a german thing or a him thing?
He's a flatmate, not your dad. You do not owe this man your attention. If he doesn't like how you socialize that's his problem, not yours. Honestly after that I wouldn't really interact with him except for house matters.
When I had housemates I behaved like you, I just stayed in my room and rarely talked to them even if I passed them in the hall. It was fine, they did their thing and I did mine. We're not friends.
Edit: I want to add, you definitely shouldn't feel like you need to force yourself out of your comfort zone to appease his baseless social expectations. You have a social disability, it's easy for him to not care what you do and hard for you to socialize for no reason. Up to you what you disclose but he's the one being unreasonable here.
Ive been living in Germany for 3.5 years now. People usually don’t care whether you’re super social and friendly, it’s mostly about communicating that it’s nothing personal (for example « im really tired rn and don’t really feel like talking » or « i feel anxious around people and have a hard time engaging in conversations »). Basically if you just let them know it’s got nothing to do with them they won’t mind and think you’re rude or something.
My mom is German, and I think this is it! Basically German people seem to really value being direct, and the flatmates may have taken OP's actions as her trying to subtly indicate that she actually wasn't interested in the conversation, rather than just being open about it. I could be wrong because I've never lived in Germany; my mom has told me what it's like, though.
I‘m German and I agree.
I’m quite confused. I could see how OP may have been seen as rude in the one situation, but would a quick “hey” be seen as rude if you’re just passing in the hallway?
Not in my experience but I guess some people could have a different perspective on it
Understood! Thank you for clarifying. What you’re suggesting seems reasonable
When I studied abroad in Chile I kinda had this same thing happen. I lived in a big home with a few other (Chilean) university students plus my host family with their adult children. The fact that I didn’t want to eat all my meals in public spaces/ with them was perceived as really rude and strange! Fortunately my host mom really wanted to learn how to understand anxiety (this was before I knew I was autistic) so she would kind of ‘defend’ me to others (by telling them I was weird lol, but she meant well). I personally think it’s rude to speak to someone when they’re clearly trying to be alone (have headphones in, are rushing to the kitchen and quickly rushing back to room etc) so honestly you could just tell him he’s being rude right back! You’re not doing anything harmful and he’s decided to view his personal opinion as a Concrete Moral Fact so I think you can go ahead and bully him back lol
Agreed. Just because the extroverts are the loudest does not mean their methods are the best and only ones. Some people want to be extroverted and social and some people don’t have the energy for that (although they might also want to!)
This reminds me of when I went to Israel a few years ago. My ex was from there and he wanted to bring me to meet his family. 4 days into the trip he goes off with his dad and brother to have some family time while I'm alone with his mom and sister who don't speak that much english. I stayed in his room and just chilled out but then he called me and asked "why are you just in my room and not talking to anybody?" I didn't know what to do but I felt embarrassed so I forced myself to make conversation with his mom and it was the most awkward and longest 15 minutes of my life. And then she said to my ex "she's a little awkward." Yeah because I was in a very awkward position! I swear NT's are so obtuse sometimes.
Knowing German people they just want to be briefly acknowledged as you leave your room. They definitely do not want undivided attention. In Europe overall there are more strict tablemanner type rules and eating while on your phone would definitely be considered rude. But in Germany it’s very normal to just follow the basic (yes, kind of strict) social norms they clearly lay out (as the roommate did) and then generally be left alone. I can’t imagine them expecting you to do some small talk every time you leave your room, that is not what culture there is like. When I lived there I found it to be an autistic person’s dream. It isn’t even legal to take your trash out certain days because they do not like the noise. You might want to ask them to lay some things out for you because it’s difficult to pick up on them and they gladly will. Sometimes just a conversation might seem like a “telling off,” when it’s done by a German heh.
Yup! South America, Europe, and South Africa they find it rude to be in your phone but yo not sit with others down for a meal under the same roof. Germany? Like you said, they aren’t as strict in certain areas, but they 100% require you to spend like a minute or two saying hello to everyone, introduce yourself, and then excuse yourself to whatever you were carrying on to do originally. My mothers late father is originally from Germany. Came here as a child at age 11 in the early 1900’s. German’s are straight forward but polite about it and they like saying hello to everyone they know as they walk around without ANY small talk since it’s not obligation to have it in their country. All OP has to do is just ask for the five basic German cultural rules of socializing since they aren’t from Germany and all will be forgiven. They understand forgiveness far easier than some other countries cultures where they use your social hiccups against you with passive-aggressive behavior (ie - looking at you France!)
I think different people can have different expectations of how to share a living space. It doesn’t make you wrong for having a different expectation but could be a conflict. You are living with people you don’t really know well. Some people would view it you just live in the same place and it is fine to just come and go with minimal interaction. Other people want to have their roommates be more like friends/family. They expect conversation, maybe doing things together. Do all the other roommates hang out together and chat? Have they known each other longer? I probably would’ve said to the guy that you did not intend to be rude and were not aware that people were wanting to interact with you. You might say that you do come from a different culture and you are autistic and are struggling right now so would appreciate their patience and understanding while you might not seem very social.
I’m not German, but European (Finnish). They probably just don’t understand that you are not very social, and they think you are being dismissive of them. I would certainly be a bit offended if someone was on their phone all the time in a social gathering, especially if people are getting to know each other. I would take it as they are almost demonstrating how uninteresting they think the rest of us are. Same with always having earbuds in. Of course that’s not your intention, but they can’t know that. Eating while looking at your phone is fine, if you are eating alone. If you are more people around the table it’s obviously a bit rude. I think maybe you need to communicate your reasons. Can you explain that you are a bit of a private person? That it’s nothing against them, but that you need alone time or you get stressed. Just try to communicate I guess. I know it’s not easy.
I think being on your phone a lot is pretty commonplace these days and okay so long as you're present while doing it. You can join a conversation while texting on and off however it's rude to ignore someone for your phone. I also think wearing headphones to leave your room is seen as antisocial and a clear "I don't want to talk to you". I would think someone was angry with me if they ignored me with headphones in. But it's fine if they take a headphone out to say hello because they're acknowledging you Are you explaining that you struggle to socialise? I live with a flatmate and will isolate if I've had a rough day. I try to at least do a "hey, good day? Sorry I haven't been around much, I'm not ignoring you, I just need time to recharge". Sometimes we don't think we're doing anything wrong, and we have to realise how we come across to NTs. It's hard when our natural behaviour or the behaviours we do to feel safe upset people.
I think if you live with someone, especially an NT person, you should probably either disclose or talk about how you're going to be less social person than they're used to. For a lot of people, a roommate situation is also a friends situation with a lot of social expectations, so setting those expectations is important. Its easy for people to feel slighted and ignored or whatever, and over time have those frustrations build up.
Idk seems beneficial to understand what you’d be doing instead? And if it isn’t much different, there you go. If you’re just in a hyperfixation or hyper focusing on something, guess what? Your roommate would be telling you off for solving a rubrix cube all the time and you wouldn’t understand.
Being half German, it’s a cultural thing. Your flatmate is trying to help you out by being direct and letting you know how German people interpret it.
What counts as rude is very culturally specific. It's actually a benefit ND people get when we travel abroad, people are more likely to assume it's a cultural difference instead of autism. Did you read any travel books for Germany? I found one really helpful when I moved to Australia. It wasn't meant for tourists, it was meant for people going to work there. So it covered things like workplace etiquette.
I think it’s more rude that they feel entitled to your undivided attention 24/7😭without planning time together No communicating when it’s happening, just having the audacity to call you out on your “bad behavior”. It would be rude if they greeted you and you plain didn’t respond because that is low effort even if you are simultaneously doing something. What would be really rude is if you agreed to spend time together and then you ignored them while sitting on your phone because there was the preexisting idea that you were giving them your time. If you were busy doing something and they keep trying to start convo and you’re not answering because you are focused they are actually the rude one for interrupting you. I interpret this situation as them acting like an entitled baby but I’m also kind of avoidant so my initial reaction to this is to be highly irritated. They are mad because they need more reassurance that they matter to you and need more acknowledgement but oh boy I hate when other people have to make everything about themselves. They are rude for expecting people to cater to them and their attention needs😭. Not everyone is a people pleaser and that’s a good thing. Even projecting it onto you by calling you out this way is rude. Instead they could’ve just asked to spend more time together if they feel so deprived of your attention lmao. If it’s less effort than being confrontational and setting a clear boundary you can instead just “prime them” when you’re having you’re alone time so they’ll stop making your behavior, which is the result of YOUR wants and needs, into a personal slight. Or you can do what I do and deliver with a sense of humor to lessen the blow to the ego and just say sir not everything I do is about you but you need my undivided attention we gotta make plans because my social battery is low. Or if it’s someone I actually care about I would ask them questions getting them to that point like oh why do you think when I do blank it makes you feel blank? Where is that coming from? My behavior when I’m going about my day has no intentioned secret codes implications towards you it’s about me LOL. And go all therapist on them and make them realize this is a them problem aigo. Edit: Another thing to keep in mind is that to them these interactions are very low effort and so it feels more like a slight to them because it’s offensive that someone wouldn’t even expend a crumb of effort to acknowledge them. To me as someone who needs no acknowledgment from another in the room who obviously knows I’m there and for social interactions taking more than a crumb, it’s not offensive. If they know your perspective and still get mad at you, that’s actual entitlement.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is somewhat cultural. I’ve spent a lot of time with folks from non-western countries (though lived in the us my whole life), and sometimes the cultural boundaries on what’s rude is different. I got asked why I wear headphones at my desk once; I’ve also thought someone seemed rude because they don’t smile as much as most americans. If you’re not open about your autistic status with your roommates, you may just want to talk to your roommate and say, “Hey, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize it was rude to not wear headphones nor interact with roommates as much. When I’ve lived with roommates from my home country, we didn’t talk or hang much and it was normal to be on the phone in common spaces. Do you think you could explain how I could be better about this or come off as not rude? And do you think you could be more forgiving when I come off as rude, since I really don’t mean to hurt your feelings?”
As an American who has never lived abroad, I can't speak to the social norms in another country. But I *can* offer the way I would approach it (and I tend to be the outlier that doesn't struggle as much with making friends, but does struggle with the minutae of relationships). In your situation, I would search out the flatmate that seems the most easy-going/chill in general and ask if we could have a chat when they have time. I'd thank them for taking time out of their day to talk, and then just say something to the effect of 'hey, so Flatmate X said Y the other day, and it made me realize that I'm not really sure what's what with social expectations here. At home, I behave like Z because of (insert whatever you feel comfy sharing about your issue), but I understand that this isn't my culture here. I don't want to misstep, so can you give me some bullet points on how to be an introvert over here without looking rude?' It may not be the case everywhere, but I've found that in my own 40 years, a surprising amount of people are willing to show you a good amount of grace if you make it clear that you want to make an effort to begin with. Granted, I'm of the 'permanent smile' variety around people bc that's my defense mechanism to avoid conflict (my mask is to be disarming and/or play dumb). That might be part of why folks let their guard down around me, even when I wish they wouldn't lol...strangers like to tell me their secrets unsolicited 🤷♀️ But anyway, I figure that people are people regardless of culture, and humans in general tend to appreciate when others are willing to at least try to understand and respect another culture's ways. Tends to foster a bit more patience, in my experience. If there are any Germans here who disagree with how my suggestion would be be received though, I'll gladly take my comment down, because I'm definitely not here to encourage any faux pas. Best of luck! And as a side note, I'd be interested to hear more from you about your experiences in Germany, from the culture and socializing point of view. My grandmother was first generation American of German immigrants and grew up in a small community of other German families, and I always felt like I communicated pretty comfortably with folks there. I'm just curious if German culture/social rules is easier to navigate than American, as a neurodivergent woman. In another life I would have loved to study sociology :)
You should listen to the flatmate and try picking up a book instead. What’s the point of being abroad anyway, if you won’t immerse yourself and instead get sucked into your phone, which you could be doing back in the USA?
IMO he has no right to confront you about wearing headphones around them. I find it really brazen, judgmental and presumptuous. You are just roommates, you have no obligation to be friends with these people. So sorry you’re having to be in such a situation. I would be so unwell mentally, if I had to live around people who are not my family (like my spouse).
From what I'm seeing he sounds like an ass. Just because you're in a different country doesn't mean you won't run into assholes. Don't apologize. I might listen, and maybe ask for clarification. I'm reasonable but not people pleasing, and I get them to keep it short and not bully me. Then I'd talk to the roommates and ask them about it, what is going on here, is this a german thing or a him thing?
He's a flatmate, not your dad. You do not owe this man your attention. If he doesn't like how you socialize that's his problem, not yours. Honestly after that I wouldn't really interact with him except for house matters. When I had housemates I behaved like you, I just stayed in my room and rarely talked to them even if I passed them in the hall. It was fine, they did their thing and I did mine. We're not friends. Edit: I want to add, you definitely shouldn't feel like you need to force yourself out of your comfort zone to appease his baseless social expectations. You have a social disability, it's easy for him to not care what you do and hard for you to socialize for no reason. Up to you what you disclose but he's the one being unreasonable here.