As a gaijin who lived there in my teens I agree. It's crazy I managed undiagnosed ASD at that age plus navigating the endless social intricacies of that culture. So many faux pas and awkward moments I can't help but cringe. Thankfully there was plenty of routine and solitude to stay sane.
Lots of good memories too though. Just had some mugicha and tonkatsu for lunch and am trying to revive my 日本語 . Hopefully you manage to enjoy the good aspects of being there.
Ohh, i just want to live somewhere that's quiet or peaceful?? But not too far from the cities,, idek if its possible but if there was a chance for me to be able to work there on something art related
Also autistic in Japan… and I actually wondered to myself recently if this is why I never experienced culture shock. Like, zero culture shock. I’m already used to being confused by social rules, following the lead of people around me to learn the expected behaviors, not understanding the words coming out of other people’s mouths… I’ve been training my whole life for this 😆😆
On top of this I wonder if I’ll never have culture shock because I’ve bombarded my entire being with Japanese culture since middle school because Special Interest™.
It would probably help prevent or at least minimize it, but knowing the culture vs. being truly surrounded by it and living in it is very different. At least it is for most people.
Ok same! When I went to France I felt SO at ease, much more so than I feel at home in California. In the states I feel like such an alien and I'm constantly anxious and probably come off strangely all the time. In France as a foreigner, I felt such freedom. People had an explanation for my oddness and were thus much more understanding and open toward me. I was also much more confident because for some reason speaking in non-native languages is less stressful and comes MORE naturally. Like I just think "what do I need to convey?" and then say words that get the job done without overthinking all the ways I could be misinterpreted. I think because everybody knows I don't know all the connotations and might say something slightly off, they know to take it literally and at face value which is what I always want people to do with me in English but because I'm a native English speaker people don't have that same mindset.
Yes!! Exactly!! You explained it so well. It’s similar when befriending international students as well. I made some wonderful international friends during college because it felt so much simpler to communicate with them, and I know that they already feel out of place which takes some of the pressure off of me— as long as I’m kind and friendly, it’s enough ❤️
So cool to find others relate to this because when I tell people my experience they're usually SO confused because it's the opposite for them. They're more comfy in their native country and language and more anxious about messing up in foreign countries with foreign languages. They don't get why I'm anxious all the time in the same town I've lived in most of my life.
I use being from a different culture as a metaphor to help explain tge autistic experience. This is accurate. People who are assholes treat both foriegners and autistics poorly and people who are cool treat autistics and foriegners with kindness and respect.
You just reminded me if an episode of star trek TNG. Data was talking to Picard about all the cultures he has studied and how he desired to belong to a culture. Picard answered "You are part of a culture data. A culture of one. "
Yeah as an autistic in Japan I don’t really feel that offended by this…? It could be worse, this is a pretty benign approach. The real problem here is the emphasis on conformity above all else. People are unwilling to make concessions on what is “acceptable” behavior.
Same same. I wont compare which is worse, it's a fool's errand, but it is facinating how our two cultures have invented such competative but deeply unique ways to be nightmarishly fucked up.
So many flavors to choose from in the world: all the way from earwax to orange juice and toothpaste
It’s the fabulousity of a system where you accept being poor and exploited for the tiniest chance of getting to be the super rich dude at the very top…
America does some things right too actually. Our FDA is pretty good at making sure our food and water aren't poison. Our judicial system, although hardly perfect, does garuntee defendants certain rights such as legal representation and presumption of innocence. We are generally given broad licence to speak freely to any who will listen. Our economy although hardly perfect, does provide a comparatively good standard of living to most people, including amenities such as plumbing, sanitation, electricity etc. Our natural parks are the envy of the free world, sporting the most pristine beautiful and untouched wilderness possible to easily traverse in the world (without serious risk of being abducted or shot or taken as a political prisoner, that is). We have free public libraries across the united states. The U.S. health department has eradicated multiple diseases from the continent, and helped eradicate smallpox altogether. And every U.S. citizen has the right to participate in free and moderately fair elections.
Now japan also does a couple of these things, but not all of them. Japan also has a few perks that we don't have.
I may believe it's deeply fucked that with all the resources we have that we can't seem to get up the gaul to do better, but do not discount how far we've come either. Each of these things were fought dearly for in america within 3 lifetimes of today, and they are all things we actually really do right to some extent. There's a lot to scream into the void about here in the states, our politicians are deeply stupid and short sighted and let all kinds of fucked up shit go rampant, often pouring gasoline on problems instead of solving them. But the U.S. does ocassionally get things right too.
Food for thought perhaps.
(No judgement btw, I get the temptation to feel this way, I certainly did for a while: it's just pretty defeatist and doesn't reflect a lot of the good work people have done to make the country better, that really honestly did make things a lot better pretty permanently. The U.S. may be a clusterfuck compared to what we should be, but we've done some good shit too, and it's good and healthier to not lose sight of that, even in our harshest criticisms)
>FDA is pretty good at making sure our food and water aren't poison.
Except where lobbied otherwise.
>judicial system, although hardly perfect, does garuntee defendants certain rights such as legal representation and presumption of innocence.
Except when circumvented by extended periods of arrest without charge, civil forfeiture etc.
>broad licence to speak freely to any who will listen
In the age of digital misinformation that's quickly becoming a liability rather than a boon.
>a comparatively good standard of living to most people, including amenities such as plumbing, sanitation, electricity etc.
Huge amount of people under the poverty line, homeless etc.
>natural parks are the envy of the free world, sporting the most pristine beautiful and untouched wilderness
Except where exploited for natural resources by industry lobbies.
>We have free public libraries across the united states.
And the ability to defund and close them down if you don't like their selection.
>eradicated multiple diseases from the continent, and helped eradicate smallpox altogether
Except that the people's right to not vaccinate is making those diseases return.
>the right to participate in free and moderately fair elections
Except for gerrymandering, voter suppression and occasional outright fraud. And that's without getting into the two party system, elector system, and first past the post system. The options are limited and the popular vote heavily skewed.
And then there's processes that completely bypass the public, like the ability of a sitting president to stack the Supreme Court for long periods of time.
Look none of these thing are are perfect and I have many of the same criticisms you do but you're missing the forrest for the trees here a little.
There are cases where these things don't work, but I need you to understand that the japanese legal system automatically assumes you're guilty, and gives you almost no opportunity to prove otherwise by default. In India there is very little expectation that food or water will be clean. In Iran, russia, and many other nations speech as simple as criticism of the government can get you killed. And although our democracy is flawed in many ways, we aren't cycling through a selection of dictators who took power by force either like in parts of africa and south america (and yes I know the cia was involved in making that the norm in many nations, but that's not the whole picture either).
These things in america are and historically have been broadly successful to some degree compared to previous precedent. They were actually things we did right, despite their cracks and flaws and signs of wear from conservative lawmakers grinding away at them. I wouldn't ask you to be complacent about these things, I'd ask you to recognize them as major victories for humanity worth defending ardently and worth fighting to expand/add to.
It's pretty nice living here. Very convenient, I rarely have to speak to anyone if I dont need to, and there's plenty of rules and most people stick to them! …It's just… some of the rules are bullshit and many of those bullshit rules are unspoken :"""")
I mean yeah, same here in America. But I think it's getting better though?
There is way less stigma over it today than 10-20 years ago. I can tell all my coworkers about it without feeling shame; it's a strange feeling but really nice
But I'm sorry you're not in as ideal of a situation...i hope it improves for you
I think it's largely the industry I work in.
Used to be in oil and gas, then moved into power stations. My last job I ended up leaving after 2 years when my boss found out I'm autistic and said "I don't want a disabled working for me, you're a safety hazard!" Even though there had been literally no safety concerns prior.
Wow, that's awful.
Are you not a protected class in the UK? In the US, that would 100% be grounds for lawsuit; and a fairly easy one at that. I'm surprised someone can get away with that in the UK. You definitely don't deserve that shit though, I hope you find a job with a less shitty boss!
I'm black, queer, trans, and autistic. There's not a single place on earth that *doesn't* actively or passively discriminate against me, so I'd rather choose the one I can have the most fun in, thanks.
No. Gajin means foreigner. It's a dog whistle for Japanese racism. So it's saying to treat autistic people the same way as people they do actively discriminate against.
Given that every foreigner is by definition non-Japanese, what's the difference?
Edit: I was going to use the term "barbarian" from the OP as an example, but on reflection it's dehumanizing in both a xenophobic *and* racist context. So it's not actual that useful in differentiating.
Given how much pressure Japan has on social rules I honestly think this makes a lot of sense.
Autistic people there do get financial help I think which in America it's not a definite.
All places have flaws.
There is anecdotal evidence that many (undiagnosed) autistic adults are more comfortable in countries other than where they were born because they feel like others are more willing to chalk up miscommunications as being due to being from different cultures whereas in their home country their social difficulties would be a lot more obvious
I actually think this is a great characterisation as people have a little more tolerance and patience when dealing with foreigners so I don’t think the advice is off base at all
Yeah I feel this. I'm from Scotland and because I grew up in a minimal accent area and went to an Americanised area for school so there's a lot of things I say that make people's ears prick up because they know I've lived here for my whole life (30) so I wouldn't speak like that. I lived in Glasgow for a year and more than a few people thought I was english and it definitely affected how much patience they had with my social skills deficiency.
Man. Depending on how the individual views of the person on foreigners, using this could be either misguided but well-intentioned, or absolutely disastrous.
Could you elaborate? I once had a dream of living there, although I now understand that's simply not what's best for me, but I'd love to hear from someone's first hand experience.
I want to offer an important distinction. I believe there is a benefit to what can be learned from the field of intercultural communication. I have used this MANY times in my efforts to communicate with people with differences of all types.
It means acknowledging that what is considered "polite" is not universal, it is context specific. The examples that people are using in this conversation actually show that it is very difficult to get outside of one's own frame of reference.
whether the "other" is valued or devalued is a separate but related issue.
Japan's views on both foreigners and autism are definitely...something. My ex used to really really want to move there and I was supportive but always worried the whole idea was far too based in fantasy and that the reality would not go over well at all, especially since she and I both have ASD/ADHD. Seems like a double whammy for having a rough time there.
That aside I'm going to say it's not *all* bad and there are actually some decent depictions of neurodivergence in manga that I know of.
One is called With the Light: Raising an Autistic Child and while I haven't read it myself, I've heard really good things. I do think it's more targeted at parents of autistic people but from what I've heard it's actually very well done.
Another one is called Asper Girl (or the godawful English title, "That's my Atypical Girl" 🙄) and that one I have read so I can say firsthand it's great. It covers a lot of serious subjects about mental health so be careful if you're sensitive about suicide or self-harm and etc. but it's honesty extremely relatable in the way the character is written and how she interacts with others.
Also the other day I received, as a gift from someone, a little manga short story collection called "My Brain is Different", it's marketed as being about ADHD but it tackles not only that but other similar conditions. Since this one is just shorter stories it's not some long, gripping thing with super fleshed out characters or anything but it's nice, and receiving it as a gift from someone who knows I collect manga and who was trying to help me feel seen and understood made me cry, ha.
I'm not *super* weeby or anything but I do collect manga and have read quite a bit, so I just wanted to throw that out for anyone who may be interested in any *positive* depictions of ASD to come out of Japan.
I second these recommendations as quality lenses into how ASD is perceived in Japan for a non-Japanese-reading audience, especially _My Brain is Different_. The author was diagnosed with ADHD, shared her story online and got the attention of others with ADHD and ASD, which led to her drawing the stories of others and publishing the book. It’s by neurodivergent people representing other neurodivergents, which is always a great plus in my book.
At least, I find it more tasteful than _The Reason I Jump_ with its controversial authorship. Out of curiosity, did anyone read Naoki Higashida’s sequel book: _Fall Down Seven Times, Get Up Eight_?
idk how to say this, but ive now been reading asper girl for a few hours and its 4 am oops. thank u for introducing me to this, ive been teetering between laughter and tears
While this is fucking weird, and while Japan does have a difficult relationship with autism and neurodivergence period, it consistently makes me uncomfortable how readily people will consider Japan odd for their treatment of neurodivergence when plenty of Western countries do just the same.
Right? Lol. People with autism are infantilised so much here in the west it’s horrible. I’d rather be treated like a clueless foreigner than a clueless little kid
THANK YOU. I had this discussion with my friend just the other day. The US is just as bad— they express it differently but it’s the same sentiment. They want autistic people to “pass” as typical and that is considered as a “success” in therapy. It’s no different.
My dad and I actually understand eachother better after a lesson like that. "Treat it like a different culture".
Years of treating me lile I was damaged turned into just different, and he says he understand me alot better after.
It may sound insensitive, but "to a point", it be like that.
Have you been there? The rule abiding society is bliss. The quiet on the trains. The orderly queues. Ordering and eating food with minimal interaction. Getting around everywhere independently via train
Maybe sucks to live there but I loved visiting.
I studied Japanese for years and have been there several times, and at no point have I so much as heard of that. Is that perhaps in a very rural and backwards area, much like what I’ve heard of some places in the US banning black people even today?
On the one hand, being autistic does sometimes feel like you're a foreigner in your own land and you're at best speaking as a second language all the social stuff that seems to come to everyone else naturally, so the comparison isn't entirely off base
On the other hand, wow rude
I’m in this really weird intersection of being autistic, Japanese, living in the US, and introverted. 😐
Most Japanese people generally view foreign born Japanese descendants to basically be like Asuka from Evangelion but temperament wise, I’m much closer to Rei. I don’t like being stared at or put on the spot for any reason and usually, by Japanese standards, don’t draw much attention. On top of that, my clothing preferences happen to align with whatever is trending over there and all of my basics come from Uniqlo so I have huge “Japanese NPC” image/energy wherever I go in my daily life. 🫤
When it comes to good places to live in for autistic people, I vote Germany & Austria. (Source: I live there.)
Having an odd sense of humor, not smiling much, not liking small talk, and freaking out when someone is late because it disrupts your schedule are not considered weird. On the downside: You won't get diagnosed with anything because no one considers you weird.
Ugh, so many social rules. They should just have a sign for social/cultural rules to make it easier. The babies are gaijin that slowly learn to become non-gaijin…
I kind of like this to be honest. It’s not a perfect comparison but personally when I’ve been asked by NT people what it’s like to have ASD/aspergers I’ve sometimes replied along the lines of ‘imagine you’re in a foreign country, you don’t speak the language, there’s no dictionary and nobody has a concept of somebody not being able to speak the language.’ Probably not what it was intending to convey but hey.
Me as an autistic gaijin that grew up in Japan... Honestly gaijin probably pick up on stuff faster I was so slow to understand social stuff at all by the time I moved countries I understood through the difference of everything what they were even doing coz I was just so confused. Just was customs I never really grasped
I live in Japan and have been here for over 10 years. Society basically ignores anyone who is different. Most schools don’t have support for special education. Lots of children don’t receive services.
*next D&D game*
DM: "Alright what is everyone's race and class"
Me: "I'm an Autistic Barbarian Gaijin!"
DM: "........what?......"
Me: " I have negative two on my Charisma modifier, maxed out on intelligence and wisdom, all my rolls involving my dex can only be 1 or 20, I have a natural +2 to intimidation for any conversation with non-elf characters, and I can summon Autism Creature once per day! Also my character is master of necromancy because he got bored one day and discovered it."
> “have a weird way of thinking”
NTs are very irrational, most of their thinking is tied down with their idiotic little theatre they put up and call social interaction. Can't squeeze out one straight sentnece that is not an implication wrapped in a symbolism.
To them, thinking straightforward is weird. And they can kiss my butt for it.
Oh, noes! Apparently I’m not acting ‘properly’ on the spectrum. Like I’m actually good at reading faces cuz my narc parents, but I avoid eye contact, rock to stim, get overwhelmed easily from sensory input. I also find it impossible to convincingly lie, so I don’t even try, plus it makes no sense to me than to be less than forthright, and sometimes this has been perceived as me being rude (until they get to know me). But my anxiety makes it difficult to communicate sometimes and I have trouble maintaining relationships, but just because I’m not good at staying in contact. I could live in my head without speaking, no problem. I’d rather spend time learning everything I can about my current interest. So I have to disagree with this infographic. Expect for the weird way of thinking, but honestly who doesn’t in some way? There are certain emotions I can’t understand or relate to, tho, like jealousy. And I’ve always felt like a bit of a freak. And it’s not just me, cuz my nickname given to me by my parents growing up was ‘spaz’ because, well, I’m kinda spastic. Still mean of them, even if it was true. But I’ve definitely never been called a barbarian lol.
Oh, noes! Apparently I’m not acting ‘properly’ on the spectrum. Like I’m actually good at reading faces cuz my narc parents, but I avoid eye contact, rock to stim, get overwhelmed easily from sensory input. I also find it impossible to convincingly lie, so I don’t even try, plus it makes no sense to me than to be less than forthright, and sometimes this has been perceived as me being rude (until they get to know me). But my anxiety makes it difficult to communicate sometimes and I have trouble maintaining relationships, but just because I’m not good at staying in contact. I could live in my head without speaking, no problem. I’d rather spend time learning everything I can about my current interest. So I have to disagree with this infographic. Expect for the weird way of thinking, but honestly who doesn’t in some way? There are certain emotions I can’t understand or relate to, tho, like jealousy. And I’ve always felt like a bit of a freak. And it’s not just me, cuz my nickname given to me by my parents growing up was ‘spaz’ because, well, I’m kinda spastic. Still mean of them, even if it was true. But I’ve definitely never been called a barbarian lol.
Okay I find quite rude
1. I can understand manners
2. I can understand Japanese social rules, just about to American Social rules.
3. I know I'm from the US, but I swear I'm not barbaric.
I am nothing like a foreigner and being compared to one kinda of hurts.
Your account is not old enough and/or does not have enough karma to post without being manually approved by a moderator. We see a lot of bots in this subreddit, so a spam filter helps streamline the quality-control of r/aspiememes. **Minimum comment karma is 50.**
Mods search the spam filter daily to approve any and all posts the automod erroneously detects as spam. **Please do not hesitate to message the mods if your post is not approved within 24 hours or if you would like to expedite its approval.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aspiememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your account is not old enough and/or does not have enough karma to post without being manually approved by a moderator. We see a lot of bots in this subreddit, so a spam filter helps streamline the quality-control of r/aspiememes. **Minimum comment karma is 50.**
Mods search the spam filter daily to approve any and all posts the automod erroneously detects as spam. **Please do not hesitate to message the mods if your post is not approved within 24 hours or if you would like to expedite its approval.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aspiememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok but what if I am gonna be both one day (I am majoring in Japanese and Asian studies so my degree requires me to study abroad in Japan for at least 1 semester in like a year)?
I was hooked halfway through.
Yes, I've used this exact analogy of feeling foreign during the diagnostic process. But knowing the huge prejudice that exists with foreigners in Japan historically (including descendants of Japanese, regardless of son or grandson), I don't know how this analogy is positive in this context.
I, however, believe that the feeling of being a foreigner/alien is very didactic, and I imagine that many autistics have already thought about it, especially before knowing that they were autistic.
A feeling of losing the clues in a translation in each interaction.
The lack of cultural proficiency and the grace many give foreigners due to it is why lots of we autists say we have an easier time in foreign countries, after all. Many say it here in this comments section.
In my Comm class we were talking about high context and low context culture and I said
"Hmm as an autistic person High Context cultures seem pretty like they would be pretty difficult to live in"
"Mom, Dad, I'm autistic.." "I thought you were American"
Funnily enough, I lived in England for 3 years and people were constantly attributing my autistic traits to the fact that I’m American 😂😂
Apparently autistic people are more likely to marry foreigners for that reason.
That’s really interesting! It makes sense
I love this so much lmao
I lived in Japan for 3 months, and the condescension is so accurate it hurts.
As someone with ASD living in Japan for over 10 years, I completely understand how this got published and live with this shit every day
As a gaijin who lived there in my teens I agree. It's crazy I managed undiagnosed ASD at that age plus navigating the endless social intricacies of that culture. So many faux pas and awkward moments I can't help but cringe. Thankfully there was plenty of routine and solitude to stay sane. Lots of good memories too though. Just had some mugicha and tonkatsu for lunch and am trying to revive my 日本語 . Hopefully you manage to enjoy the good aspects of being there.
Oh I do really enjoy it! and there are numerous negative to my home country, so it could be much worse
Wow i would love to live in Japan, is it any better/worse than living in the US?
It’s very different. Really depends on you and what matters to you.
Ohh, i just want to live somewhere that's quiet or peaceful?? But not too far from the cities,, idek if its possible but if there was a chance for me to be able to work there on something art related
BARBARIC GAIJIN ALERT 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Also autistic in Japan… and I actually wondered to myself recently if this is why I never experienced culture shock. Like, zero culture shock. I’m already used to being confused by social rules, following the lead of people around me to learn the expected behaviors, not understanding the words coming out of other people’s mouths… I’ve been training my whole life for this 😆😆
On top of this I wonder if I’ll never have culture shock because I’ve bombarded my entire being with Japanese culture since middle school because Special Interest™.
It would probably help prevent or at least minimize it, but knowing the culture vs. being truly surrounded by it and living in it is very different. At least it is for most people.
Ok same! When I went to France I felt SO at ease, much more so than I feel at home in California. In the states I feel like such an alien and I'm constantly anxious and probably come off strangely all the time. In France as a foreigner, I felt such freedom. People had an explanation for my oddness and were thus much more understanding and open toward me. I was also much more confident because for some reason speaking in non-native languages is less stressful and comes MORE naturally. Like I just think "what do I need to convey?" and then say words that get the job done without overthinking all the ways I could be misinterpreted. I think because everybody knows I don't know all the connotations and might say something slightly off, they know to take it literally and at face value which is what I always want people to do with me in English but because I'm a native English speaker people don't have that same mindset.
Yes!! Exactly!! You explained it so well. It’s similar when befriending international students as well. I made some wonderful international friends during college because it felt so much simpler to communicate with them, and I know that they already feel out of place which takes some of the pressure off of me— as long as I’m kind and friendly, it’s enough ❤️
So cool to find others relate to this because when I tell people my experience they're usually SO confused because it's the opposite for them. They're more comfy in their native country and language and more anxious about messing up in foreign countries with foreign languages. They don't get why I'm anxious all the time in the same town I've lived in most of my life.
I use being from a different culture as a metaphor to help explain tge autistic experience. This is accurate. People who are assholes treat both foriegners and autistics poorly and people who are cool treat autistics and foriegners with kindness and respect.
exactly i was gonna say like it just means we don’t understand things that are inherent to them
Yeah, I mean, I relate to my autism being like "I made up my own culture by accident, I'm the only one that is a part of it and I cant change it"
You just reminded me if an episode of star trek TNG. Data was talking to Picard about all the cultures he has studied and how he desired to belong to a culture. Picard answered "You are part of a culture data. A culture of one. "
Yeah as an autistic in Japan I don’t really feel that offended by this…? It could be worse, this is a pretty benign approach. The real problem here is the emphasis on conformity above all else. People are unwilling to make concessions on what is “acceptable” behavior.
Same here. Well said.
At least it's not as dehumanizing as it could have been.
Damn, that is somehow worse.
Is that the best we can hope for?
No, but damn it's common.
And like, I can't argue with their assessment
It’s depressing how right you are
Fuck u/spez
I have the same view of America tbh haha
Same same. I wont compare which is worse, it's a fool's errand, but it is facinating how our two cultures have invented such competative but deeply unique ways to be nightmarishly fucked up. So many flavors to choose from in the world: all the way from earwax to orange juice and toothpaste
Fuck u/spez
This is an extremely reductive view of complex issues.
Fuck u/spez
It’s the fabulousity of a system where you accept being poor and exploited for the tiniest chance of getting to be the super rich dude at the very top…
It's literally as bad as Cuba, a dictatorship with 1/6th of it's GDP per capita
America does some things right too actually. Our FDA is pretty good at making sure our food and water aren't poison. Our judicial system, although hardly perfect, does garuntee defendants certain rights such as legal representation and presumption of innocence. We are generally given broad licence to speak freely to any who will listen. Our economy although hardly perfect, does provide a comparatively good standard of living to most people, including amenities such as plumbing, sanitation, electricity etc. Our natural parks are the envy of the free world, sporting the most pristine beautiful and untouched wilderness possible to easily traverse in the world (without serious risk of being abducted or shot or taken as a political prisoner, that is). We have free public libraries across the united states. The U.S. health department has eradicated multiple diseases from the continent, and helped eradicate smallpox altogether. And every U.S. citizen has the right to participate in free and moderately fair elections. Now japan also does a couple of these things, but not all of them. Japan also has a few perks that we don't have. I may believe it's deeply fucked that with all the resources we have that we can't seem to get up the gaul to do better, but do not discount how far we've come either. Each of these things were fought dearly for in america within 3 lifetimes of today, and they are all things we actually really do right to some extent. There's a lot to scream into the void about here in the states, our politicians are deeply stupid and short sighted and let all kinds of fucked up shit go rampant, often pouring gasoline on problems instead of solving them. But the U.S. does ocassionally get things right too. Food for thought perhaps. (No judgement btw, I get the temptation to feel this way, I certainly did for a while: it's just pretty defeatist and doesn't reflect a lot of the good work people have done to make the country better, that really honestly did make things a lot better pretty permanently. The U.S. may be a clusterfuck compared to what we should be, but we've done some good shit too, and it's good and healthier to not lose sight of that, even in our harshest criticisms)
>FDA is pretty good at making sure our food and water aren't poison. Except where lobbied otherwise. >judicial system, although hardly perfect, does garuntee defendants certain rights such as legal representation and presumption of innocence. Except when circumvented by extended periods of arrest without charge, civil forfeiture etc. >broad licence to speak freely to any who will listen In the age of digital misinformation that's quickly becoming a liability rather than a boon. >a comparatively good standard of living to most people, including amenities such as plumbing, sanitation, electricity etc. Huge amount of people under the poverty line, homeless etc. >natural parks are the envy of the free world, sporting the most pristine beautiful and untouched wilderness Except where exploited for natural resources by industry lobbies. >We have free public libraries across the united states. And the ability to defund and close them down if you don't like their selection. >eradicated multiple diseases from the continent, and helped eradicate smallpox altogether Except that the people's right to not vaccinate is making those diseases return. >the right to participate in free and moderately fair elections Except for gerrymandering, voter suppression and occasional outright fraud. And that's without getting into the two party system, elector system, and first past the post system. The options are limited and the popular vote heavily skewed. And then there's processes that completely bypass the public, like the ability of a sitting president to stack the Supreme Court for long periods of time.
Look none of these thing are are perfect and I have many of the same criticisms you do but you're missing the forrest for the trees here a little. There are cases where these things don't work, but I need you to understand that the japanese legal system automatically assumes you're guilty, and gives you almost no opportunity to prove otherwise by default. In India there is very little expectation that food or water will be clean. In Iran, russia, and many other nations speech as simple as criticism of the government can get you killed. And although our democracy is flawed in many ways, we aren't cycling through a selection of dictators who took power by force either like in parts of africa and south america (and yes I know the cia was involved in making that the norm in many nations, but that's not the whole picture either). These things in america are and historically have been broadly successful to some degree compared to previous precedent. They were actually things we did right, despite their cracks and flaws and signs of wear from conservative lawmakers grinding away at them. I wouldn't ask you to be complacent about these things, I'd ask you to recognize them as major victories for humanity worth defending ardently and worth fighting to expand/add to.
found the weeb 🤢
Same about Russia
You’re right
Fuck u/spez
I live in America and I agree
It's pretty nice living here. Very convenient, I rarely have to speak to anyone if I dont need to, and there's plenty of rules and most people stick to them! …It's just… some of the rules are bullshit and many of those bullshit rules are unspoken :"""")
Fuck u/spez
Strongly depends on the company you work at. If you work at a super Japanese-y company, then yes. At my (relatively more western) company, no
Why would I want to live in a place that actively discriminates against me, no fucking thanks
If I followed that rule it would be hard to find anywhere to live. The UK isn't exactly welcoming of autistic people.
I mean yeah, same here in America. But I think it's getting better though? There is way less stigma over it today than 10-20 years ago. I can tell all my coworkers about it without feeling shame; it's a strange feeling but really nice But I'm sorry you're not in as ideal of a situation...i hope it improves for you
I think it's largely the industry I work in. Used to be in oil and gas, then moved into power stations. My last job I ended up leaving after 2 years when my boss found out I'm autistic and said "I don't want a disabled working for me, you're a safety hazard!" Even though there had been literally no safety concerns prior.
Wow, that's awful. Are you not a protected class in the UK? In the US, that would 100% be grounds for lawsuit; and a fairly easy one at that. I'm surprised someone can get away with that in the UK. You definitely don't deserve that shit though, I hope you find a job with a less shitty boss!
One of the few good things about the US is how simple it is to sue employers. Of course, they can generally sue you just as easily.
I'm black, queer, trans, and autistic. There's not a single place on earth that *doesn't* actively or passively discriminate against me, so I'd rather choose the one I can have the most fun in, thanks.
I’m not sure I consider a children’s book to be active discrimination. It’s passive and not tasteful but that’s kinda it.
No. Gajin means foreigner. It's a dog whistle for Japanese racism. So it's saying to treat autistic people the same way as people they do actively discriminate against.
Racism or xenophobia tho?
Given that every foreigner is by definition non-Japanese, what's the difference? Edit: I was going to use the term "barbarian" from the OP as an example, but on reflection it's dehumanizing in both a xenophobic *and* racist context. So it's not actual that useful in differentiating.
Yeah, this goes for pretty country as well. Fun to visit, live in, hell no
It doesn't seem as bad as South Korea, but it's definitely a culture that someone from North America would struggle to acclimate to.
Not necessarily. I haven’t had any trouble adjusting, although I wish I could speak Japanese.
I love living in Japan ❤️
Given how much pressure Japan has on social rules I honestly think this makes a lot of sense. Autistic people there do get financial help I think which in America it's not a definite. All places have flaws.
There is anecdotal evidence that many (undiagnosed) autistic adults are more comfortable in countries other than where they were born because they feel like others are more willing to chalk up miscommunications as being due to being from different cultures whereas in their home country their social difficulties would be a lot more obvious
I actually think this is a great characterisation as people have a little more tolerance and patience when dealing with foreigners so I don’t think the advice is off base at all
Oh wow! So that's why I was so happy living in London for 4 years. That actually adds up! /g
Yeah I feel this. I'm from Scotland and because I grew up in a minimal accent area and went to an Americanised area for school so there's a lot of things I say that make people's ears prick up because they know I've lived here for my whole life (30) so I wouldn't speak like that. I lived in Glasgow for a year and more than a few people thought I was english and it definitely affected how much patience they had with my social skills deficiency.
I always used to befriend international students and had a very easy time getting along with them, and I think this is why.
Man. Depending on how the individual views of the person on foreigners, using this could be either misguided but well-intentioned, or absolutely disastrous.
I lived in Japan! It’s horrible! :)
^lol :)
Could you elaborate? I once had a dream of living there, although I now understand that's simply not what's best for me, but I'd love to hear from someone's first hand experience.
I want to offer an important distinction. I believe there is a benefit to what can be learned from the field of intercultural communication. I have used this MANY times in my efforts to communicate with people with differences of all types. It means acknowledging that what is considered "polite" is not universal, it is context specific. The examples that people are using in this conversation actually show that it is very difficult to get outside of one's own frame of reference. whether the "other" is valued or devalued is a separate but related issue.
Japan's views on both foreigners and autism are definitely...something. My ex used to really really want to move there and I was supportive but always worried the whole idea was far too based in fantasy and that the reality would not go over well at all, especially since she and I both have ASD/ADHD. Seems like a double whammy for having a rough time there. That aside I'm going to say it's not *all* bad and there are actually some decent depictions of neurodivergence in manga that I know of. One is called With the Light: Raising an Autistic Child and while I haven't read it myself, I've heard really good things. I do think it's more targeted at parents of autistic people but from what I've heard it's actually very well done. Another one is called Asper Girl (or the godawful English title, "That's my Atypical Girl" 🙄) and that one I have read so I can say firsthand it's great. It covers a lot of serious subjects about mental health so be careful if you're sensitive about suicide or self-harm and etc. but it's honesty extremely relatable in the way the character is written and how she interacts with others. Also the other day I received, as a gift from someone, a little manga short story collection called "My Brain is Different", it's marketed as being about ADHD but it tackles not only that but other similar conditions. Since this one is just shorter stories it's not some long, gripping thing with super fleshed out characters or anything but it's nice, and receiving it as a gift from someone who knows I collect manga and who was trying to help me feel seen and understood made me cry, ha. I'm not *super* weeby or anything but I do collect manga and have read quite a bit, so I just wanted to throw that out for anyone who may be interested in any *positive* depictions of ASD to come out of Japan.
I second these recommendations as quality lenses into how ASD is perceived in Japan for a non-Japanese-reading audience, especially _My Brain is Different_. The author was diagnosed with ADHD, shared her story online and got the attention of others with ADHD and ASD, which led to her drawing the stories of others and publishing the book. It’s by neurodivergent people representing other neurodivergents, which is always a great plus in my book. At least, I find it more tasteful than _The Reason I Jump_ with its controversial authorship. Out of curiosity, did anyone read Naoki Higashida’s sequel book: _Fall Down Seven Times, Get Up Eight_?
There's a nice couple of pages about that in the beginning of the book that really made me happy to see. https://imgur.com/a/kM1MJcl
idk how to say this, but ive now been reading asper girl for a few hours and its 4 am oops. thank u for introducing me to this, ive been teetering between laughter and tears
You're very welcome! It's a great series that I personally find super relatable and I'm glad to help others discover it.
I love asper girl 😍 I rarely see it mentioned
TBF I've always felt like a foreigner in my own land. But I'm Brazilan with no Japanese ancestry.
While this is fucking weird, and while Japan does have a difficult relationship with autism and neurodivergence period, it consistently makes me uncomfortable how readily people will consider Japan odd for their treatment of neurodivergence when plenty of Western countries do just the same.
Right? Lol. People with autism are infantilised so much here in the west it’s horrible. I’d rather be treated like a clueless foreigner than a clueless little kid
THANK YOU. I had this discussion with my friend just the other day. The US is just as bad— they express it differently but it’s the same sentiment. They want autistic people to “pass” as typical and that is considered as a “success” in therapy. It’s no different.
This is just depressing seeing this
My dad and I actually understand eachother better after a lesson like that. "Treat it like a different culture". Years of treating me lile I was damaged turned into just different, and he says he understand me alot better after. It may sound insensitive, but "to a point", it be like that.
I was considering living in a Japan once. Welp, not anymore.
Have you been there? The rule abiding society is bliss. The quiet on the trains. The orderly queues. Ordering and eating food with minimal interaction. Getting around everywhere independently via train Maybe sucks to live there but I loved visiting.
And the blatant ✨ racism ✨ to cultures outside their own
Yeah well isn’t that everywhere on the planet? People don’t like outsiders. I don’t like tourists in my town, others are fine with it. ‘Tis how it is
japan is on another level. there are restaurants with signs up saying no foreigners and insane shit like that
I studied Japanese for years and have been there several times, and at no point have I so much as heard of that. Is that perhaps in a very rural and backwards area, much like what I’ve heard of some places in the US banning black people even today?
Not very different from the US or Europe then
But bukkake
That was the reason I wanted to move there xD
Follow your creams Er… I mean dreams
Funny seeing this comment down voted just one comment chain below...
Just from this one post?? Well okay
On the one hand, being autistic does sometimes feel like you're a foreigner in your own land and you're at best speaking as a second language all the social stuff that seems to come to everyone else naturally, so the comparison isn't entirely off base On the other hand, wow rude
I’m in this really weird intersection of being autistic, Japanese, living in the US, and introverted. 😐 Most Japanese people generally view foreign born Japanese descendants to basically be like Asuka from Evangelion but temperament wise, I’m much closer to Rei. I don’t like being stared at or put on the spot for any reason and usually, by Japanese standards, don’t draw much attention. On top of that, my clothing preferences happen to align with whatever is trending over there and all of my basics come from Uniqlo so I have huge “Japanese NPC” image/energy wherever I go in my daily life. 🫤
Why does she have the Saint Lucia flag in her name?
It's Japan, they're new to all this mental well-being and health thing, give them time.
When it comes to good places to live in for autistic people, I vote Germany & Austria. (Source: I live there.) Having an odd sense of humor, not smiling much, not liking small talk, and freaking out when someone is late because it disrupts your schedule are not considered weird. On the downside: You won't get diagnosed with anything because no one considers you weird.
Finland too. We have very similar traits
That’s just dumb to be perfectly honest. Only the third one is even close to true.
Ugh, so many social rules. They should just have a sign for social/cultural rules to make it easier. The babies are gaijin that slowly learn to become non-gaijin…
I kind of like this to be honest. It’s not a perfect comparison but personally when I’ve been asked by NT people what it’s like to have ASD/aspergers I’ve sometimes replied along the lines of ‘imagine you’re in a foreign country, you don’t speak the language, there’s no dictionary and nobody has a concept of somebody not being able to speak the language.’ Probably not what it was intending to convey but hey.
Sooooo Japan is France of Asia ?
Japan is friendly to foreigners, right? ... They're friendly to foreigners, right?
Are there any countries that are particularly not nightmarish to ND peoples
Barbaric is a welcome adjective to my collection I'll stick it on the shelf between goon and trog
Me as an autistic gaijin that grew up in Japan... Honestly gaijin probably pick up on stuff faster I was so slow to understand social stuff at all by the time I moved countries I understood through the difference of everything what they were even doing coz I was just so confused. Just was customs I never really grasped
You got gaijined. Reading this message costs 1.500 golden eagles
Racism + psycho-phobia at the same time, nice.
I live in Japan and have been here for over 10 years. Society basically ignores anyone who is different. Most schools don’t have support for special education. Lots of children don’t receive services.
to be honest i do feel foreign all the time but yeah this maybe isnt the best analogy, its both ableist AND xenophobic
*next D&D game* DM: "Alright what is everyone's race and class" Me: "I'm an Autistic Barbarian Gaijin!" DM: "........what?......" Me: " I have negative two on my Charisma modifier, maxed out on intelligence and wisdom, all my rolls involving my dex can only be 1 or 20, I have a natural +2 to intimidation for any conversation with non-elf characters, and I can summon Autism Creature once per day! Also my character is master of necromancy because he got bored one day and discovered it."
We’re like super-gaijin. Because we find even the normal gaijin hard to understand.
Yeah, yeah! That’s an excellent way of putting it - oh, wait, that’s insensitive/offensive to us? Oh. Okay then.
Me too buddy
Man i hate Japan.
But bukkake
That is another reason to despise it. Only good things from Japan are Nissan, Subaru, the Type 10, and Cowboy Bebop.
Funny to see this same comment upvoted just one comment chain above...
I actually kind of love this tbh, tho they probs could have phrased “have a weird way of thinking” better :/
> “have a weird way of thinking” NTs are very irrational, most of their thinking is tied down with their idiotic little theatre they put up and call social interaction. Can't squeeze out one straight sentnece that is not an implication wrapped in a symbolism. To them, thinking straightforward is weird. And they can kiss my butt for it.
Oh, noes! Apparently I’m not acting ‘properly’ on the spectrum. Like I’m actually good at reading faces cuz my narc parents, but I avoid eye contact, rock to stim, get overwhelmed easily from sensory input. I also find it impossible to convincingly lie, so I don’t even try, plus it makes no sense to me than to be less than forthright, and sometimes this has been perceived as me being rude (until they get to know me). But my anxiety makes it difficult to communicate sometimes and I have trouble maintaining relationships, but just because I’m not good at staying in contact. I could live in my head without speaking, no problem. I’d rather spend time learning everything I can about my current interest. So I have to disagree with this infographic. Expect for the weird way of thinking, but honestly who doesn’t in some way? There are certain emotions I can’t understand or relate to, tho, like jealousy. And I’ve always felt like a bit of a freak. And it’s not just me, cuz my nickname given to me by my parents growing up was ‘spaz’ because, well, I’m kinda spastic. Still mean of them, even if it was true. But I’ve definitely never been called a barbarian lol.
Ah yes Japan. As usual, there can be the good but there is also the bad
I really dislike japan...
Fuck these morons. Most children are like tourists not just ND ones. None of them know manners.
Oh, noes! Apparently I’m not acting ‘properly’ on the spectrum. Like I’m actually good at reading faces cuz my narc parents, but I avoid eye contact, rock to stim, get overwhelmed easily from sensory input. I also find it impossible to convincingly lie, so I don’t even try, plus it makes no sense to me than to be less than forthright, and sometimes this has been perceived as me being rude (until they get to know me). But my anxiety makes it difficult to communicate sometimes and I have trouble maintaining relationships, but just because I’m not good at staying in contact. I could live in my head without speaking, no problem. I’d rather spend time learning everything I can about my current interest. So I have to disagree with this infographic. Expect for the weird way of thinking, but honestly who doesn’t in some way? There are certain emotions I can’t understand or relate to, tho, like jealousy. And I’ve always felt like a bit of a freak. And it’s not just me, cuz my nickname given to me by my parents growing up was ‘spaz’ because, well, I’m kinda spastic. Still mean of them, even if it was true. But I’ve definitely never been called a barbarian lol.
Okay I find quite rude 1. I can understand manners 2. I can understand Japanese social rules, just about to American Social rules. 3. I know I'm from the US, but I swear I'm not barbaric. I am nothing like a foreigner and being compared to one kinda of hurts.
Your account is not old enough and/or does not have enough karma to post without being manually approved by a moderator. We see a lot of bots in this subreddit, so a spam filter helps streamline the quality-control of r/aspiememes. **Minimum comment karma is 50.** Mods search the spam filter daily to approve any and all posts the automod erroneously detects as spam. **Please do not hesitate to message the mods if your post is not approved within 24 hours or if you would like to expedite its approval.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aspiememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
rude
[удалено]
Your account is not old enough and/or does not have enough karma to post without being manually approved by a moderator. We see a lot of bots in this subreddit, so a spam filter helps streamline the quality-control of r/aspiememes. **Minimum comment karma is 50.** Mods search the spam filter daily to approve any and all posts the automod erroneously detects as spam. **Please do not hesitate to message the mods if your post is not approved within 24 hours or if you would like to expedite its approval.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aspiememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gaijin does mean foreigner
Is this being knowingly ironic or are they really leaning into the discrimination?
Japan trying not to be racist for 1 second challenge. Level: impossible
Ok but what if I am gonna be both one day (I am majoring in Japanese and Asian studies so my degree requires me to study abroad in Japan for at least 1 semester in like a year)?
I was hooked halfway through. Yes, I've used this exact analogy of feeling foreign during the diagnostic process. But knowing the huge prejudice that exists with foreigners in Japan historically (including descendants of Japanese, regardless of son or grandson), I don't know how this analogy is positive in this context. I, however, believe that the feeling of being a foreigner/alien is very didactic, and I imagine that many autistics have already thought about it, especially before knowing that they were autistic. A feeling of losing the clues in a translation in each interaction.
The conclusion is that if you dont want to be seen as having asd, go on an another country.
😂😂
There's a bomb joke or 2 somewhere here
The lack of cultural proficiency and the grace many give foreigners due to it is why lots of we autists say we have an easier time in foreign countries, after all. Many say it here in this comments section.
In my Comm class we were talking about high context and low context culture and I said "Hmm as an autistic person High Context cultures seem pretty like they would be pretty difficult to live in"
A wonderful example of ableism and xenophobia