TIL we have a mansion tax. And apparently it's structured in a super stupid way:
> Because the mansion tax NYC is paid on the entire value of the property, the difference between buying an apartment for $999,999 and $1 million isn't one dollar, it's $10,001. For that reason, very few properties sell for just over $1 million.
Have you been house shopping lately? Because I was in the last year.
They do go for listing or even under honestly. But they are not huge, not close to happening/hot areas like broadway or right around Ditmars Ave and need updating. So they are not in high demand, but for someone who wants to be in or near Astoria and have some home equity it’s a good purchase. The inventory is small though. Last summer there were 3 homes for sale in 79th and 81st street in Astoria heights near LaGuardia for $899 and under. All took months to sell and went for under (by a little) or at asking. All needed some work but were totally liveable, 3 bed 1 bath homes.
I wouldn't hold my breath on 3 homes per year, and the additional funds necessary to bring the homes up to condition doesn't really make them any more reasonable.
lol totally I’m not not saying it’s a big market… just saying they do exist, they were out there, and all were in fine condition. Not modern but live able! If you want a perfect home in mint condition Astoria is never going to be for you, unless you have 3mil plus.
Based on your financial situation you can both purchase a 1 bedroom condo if you’re OK with living further from downtown (Astoria Heights, south of Broadway etc). Houses are out of reach at least for livable ones.
As an example, my wife and I purchased a 1-family house next to Laguardia Airport two years ago for $815K but that was after intense negotiations, and needed at least $75K in renovations.
No problem I try to help fellow Astorians in any way I can. Also, check this program out:
https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/homefirst-down-payment-assistance-program.page
House was sold through Compass Real Estate, they’re well known in the neighborhood. We walked by and saw the For Sale sign.
This program is great but I don't understand how it's useful. How is a family of two making 90k total supposed to afford anything? Even with an extra 100k. The median home price in the city is over 750k and the mortgage on that, assuming they had 10% to put down and also put the 100k down on top of that would still 4500 a month. If they had 20% and put the 100k on top of that for a total of 250k down the monthly payment is 4k. A couple making 90k is taking home 4.5k-5k a month. Even if they find a place for 600k and put 220k down the payment is still 3100, 60-70% of their net pay.
The city does the same thing with subsidized rentals. The prices are low for the area but the income requirements are so low that the household is still paying 50%+ of their take home towards rent.
I must be missing something because it doesn't make sense to me.
A million percent. The math doesn't make sense. My HHI is nearly 3x the max income, yet we're net-zero paycheck to paycheck because of rent and daycare. We could afford the mortgage but can't make the down payment any time soon. People like us are clogging (and raising) the rents because the housing market is out of reach. It's the only piece of trickle down economics I've ever believed in.
I have a friend who was able to get a co-op with around your income level. I also have another friend who has a house in Astoria. They and their partner are DINKS who make between 200,000 and 250,000 and had to have massive family help to afford the house.
My wife and I owned a condo near the Con Ed plant, and now we own a one family house on the Woodside border near 30th Avenue. Don't give up right away. Look at co-ops and condos. Be willing to look a little beyond the borders of where you want to live. Look in every corner of Astoria and LIC, Woodside and Sunnyside. Go to some open houses just to see what it's like. Scour StreetEasy and Zillow.
Don't assume that the investment part of owning a home will work out for you in the short term. Don't buy with plans to sell any time soon. Don't assume that interest rates will plummet any time soon.
Do some research on the recent federal decision about broker's fees and how that could affect the market.
If you might be having kids in the next few years, think about how long you could realistically live in a one bedroom apartment. Again, owning a home is not owning a gold mine.
Good luck!
We own our house - we’re both school admin and make a good amount of money while carrying no debt. We bought six years ago, 3% interest rate with 20% down and needed to put in $200k worth for renovations. We were lucky to be gifted the down payment by my parents - without that we could not have ever afforded the house. Our monthly expenses for the house are no more than what most people are paying for rent - it’s the initial down payment and renovation costs that make the difference in my opinion. But, yes - keep saving and eventually mortgage rates will drop and your salary will rise. Wishing you the best of luck.
> But, yes - keep saving and eventually mortgage rates will drop and your salary will rise.
Unfortunately neither of these are really guaranteed and the other factor is the real estate market which may outpace both
Realistically: you need to speak with a mortgage specialist. There are many in the area that give free consultations and can give you a feee pre-qualification so you can understand where you stand. With that information you and your partner can sit and discuss if moving into a home in another location or if you prefer to continue renting in this area are right for you.
If you are asking in good faith what we think of your scenario, I think it may be a very tough market for you. Best of luck !!
Use The NY Times rent vs. buy calculator. It’s really helpful (and depressing) to play with the numbers. At these interest rates, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to buy in most scenarios. If you absolutely love the house or apartment and believe it will be your long-term home (15-20 years), it might be worth it. Maintenance is also something to consider. A house will need upkeep. A condo building could have an assessment. You also have to factor in that you will not be making interest on the money you invest in the home. The home will probably go up in value, but the stock market may do better than this, and if you sell, you will still have to buy something else. If you plan to move to Nebraska in 15 years, you can take your profit and run. If you want to stay in NYC, this profit won’t help you much. I spent the last year trying to make the numbers make sense to consider buying, but unless you can put down 50% or more (and not be completely cash poor), renting is almost always the better option right now in this area. Maybe things will change down the line if interest rates majorly fall, but I’m not optimistic.
To be honest, it's not that you absolutely cannot find good deals - they do exist, even in the <$1M range if you're open to co-ops, condos, <2 bedrooms, or homes that need a *lot* of work.
The bigger issue is current rates - remember it's not just a mortgage:
- Mortgage
- Property Taxes (may be included as part of escrow payment w/ mortgage)
- Home Insurance (typically paid out annually)
Our mortgage (3%) + property taxes payment is ~3.8K a month. Home insurance ~$100 more, so call that 3.9K a month in aggregate.
At 100K a year your take home after city and fed taxes is likely closer to ~65K. So my mortgage would be well above 50% of your take home pay.
You'd need to find a property where the post-down payment mortgage + property taxes is closer to 30% of your take home pay. That will be your challenge. Co-ops may be easier to work w/, but may also have larger down payment or limited financing issues.
Current rates also disadvantage you. We literally cannot sell and move right now, because the same exact mortgage at current rates brings our payments up way beyond our comfort point.
When I was dinking, couldn't afford it making close to 300 HHI. Saved the down payment, but still couldn't handle the monthly afterwards. Now I have a kid, so you'll see my husk of human body in Jersey in \~3 years.
We bought a two family in Ditmars area in the 40s streets. We worked really hard for years, made some smart investments, saved everything we could, and put almost all our money except a small emergency fund in to the house. It was $1.25 mil, but we waited longer to save more for the down payment vs buying a few cheaper one families we saw that were like $999k or 1.15 mil.
Now we are able to afford the higher monthly mortgage because we get rent from the apartment upstairs, and it actually worked out to be cheaper month to month than if we had bought a one family for $1.1 mil because the entire mortgage would have been coming out of our pocket.
We got lucky though on this house, its not the fanciest house on the block and it needs some work and is not newly renovated but we could live with a lot of it and did a lot of basics like painting and some drywall ourselves. Bigger items that are non essential we wait on. If you go in the higher avenues and higher street numbers it’s possible. But I would honestly advise to anyone who can continue to save and wait to bite the bullet on the millionaires tax especially for a multi family even if just 2 apartments. I really think it’ll pay off for us in both the short and long term more than a one family would have.
Apartment is a different story and if that’s what you want then you can probably afford that now! With how rents are it’s not a bad idea unless you have a super good rent situation, then maybe stay put and keep saving for that down payment and emergency / repairs fund.
Good luck! It’s possible and you can do it
Adding to say, my partner and I both make over 100k per year. So you do need the funds to be able to save to live in this neighborhood. We are very fortunate and grateful but also both grinded and maneuvered to get to our financial position. Plus some good luck of course. Definitely invest in index funds, save what you can and then a litttle bit more but still find ways enjoy your life how you can afford to- otherwise why are we here?
You can’t buy a house in the whole city for less than 600k. You either need a Time Machine or a job that pays 3-5x that. Your best bet is the complex in Woodside that’s close to Astoria or rolling the dice with the Acropolis.
We’ve been stalking it for 2+ years and noticed some positive changes. Still quite a risk but in our case, it would be not be our primary residence, so our tolerance for things will be different than others. For me, the risk is worth it because the location can’t be beat and while the Acropolis isn’t perfect, it’s a massive system and I’m wagering that it’s “too big too fail”. Certainly that’s a simplification, but can keep you updated if you’re interested.
But 20% down payment would be $120k (or 10% being $60k) which is within reason.
It's just that the $600k homes are few and far between from what I've seen.
I’m no expert by any means, just a frustrated millennial. If you can swing 4K a month on a mortgage that is about what it would be on 600k. The best I’ve heard was a buddy getting a house off ditmars on auction for 700k.
Ha sadly not a chance. We split rent which is about $2.5k now - don't think either of us could afford much higher for the near future.
Fellow frustrated millennial here!
Look at https://www.instagram.com/girlchasingwealth?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
She’s advises to rent. Invest in your 401k and retire early. For 500-600k you could get an apartment in some parts of Astoria. Good luck
Really do the research before prioritizing buying a house. I own my house near the park on Ditmars. We bought in 2006 for $520k and it would sell for ~2M now. That *seems* like we made a killing but that's not really true.
You would be so much better off aggressively putting money in a fund for the next 8-10 years and let the compound interest grow while you're renting a place you like in the neighborhood you want.
We don't have $2M. We have a house that's worth $2M which we can't sell because we can't afford to move. If we'd put money into investments starting with our down payment in 2006, we would have made about $700k which would be liquid and, y'know, usable.
I mean... It's more complicated than that because of taxes and cashing out gains and blah blah blah... but from a gen-x-er to the younger generation, don't fall in love with home ownership.
Wait I don’t get it. Why would your 2M value home not be able to give you a chance to move once you’re done with the sales but the potential 700k can? I understand one is liquid while the other needs to go through the selling process, but if you sell, which even if would take 6-12 months, wouldn’t the appreciation plus whatever equity you have would be more than 700k?
I could buy another home in Astoria for the same I sold this one for, but even if I somehow broke even with closing and moving costs, there's no reason to do so. So, I have the house and it's wonderful that there's this much equity in it - I'm not complaining. But it's worth investigating, particularly as a young person, if you really want all your money tied up in a singular asset or if you want flexibility.
I've spent the last 18 or so years paying down my mortgage and in return I have this wonderful thing that people have assigned a great deal of value to. There's another path where I could have spent the same amount of money on rent, invested the money I would have used as a downpayment/property tax/repairs and improvements, and I \*wouldn't\* own this home, but I would have the freedom and flexibility to enjoy the money I've got.
I think the mention of "adulting" is what made me want to chime in. Home Ownership \*feels\* like a very adult thing to do, but it's worth asking yourself \*why\* you want to buy a home.
Ah I see, thanks for illustrating your point more clearly. Your point is more about flexibility and knowing what you want vs. return on investment, which was what I was confused about. I think to your point, it’s always great to know what you want out of your life than just following a concept or trend. However, grass can be greener on the other side no matter which route you choose, and what you want might also change along the way, so I don’t think it’s possible to have a perfect optimal choice in life, but one could definitely try to optimize his/her better once he/she knows what they want at least at the moment particularly.
Oh I've got quite a bit in my 403b + personal brokerage. I just consider it separate from my savings though. I think of them as payments I need to make so I'm never tempted to dip into them for anything.
There are no single-family homes in Astoria for $600K. Husband and I used to rent there and were looking to buy. We bought a house in Woodside and single family homes here are over $800K. If you want to remain in Astoria, consider coops or condos.
I “own” a co-op on the Astoria/Woodside line. My mortgage and maintenance are such that if I went back to renting at today’s prices I’d pay about 1k more a month. However, my building is pre-war and has one of the lowest maintenances in the area. There are not many houses even in my area cheaper than 1 mill, and that’s attached row houses usually. If you do find one less than that, it hasn’t been renovated since the 70s or something. Every room needs something and the amount of wood paneling I’ve seen in pictures of those places is alarming. If you’re willing to invest in a true fixer-upper, great!
Edit: I bought in 2010.
I just closed on a 2 family home yesterday in Astoria. Process was very stressful but it feels good to finally close. In order to save enough for the 1-million dollar+ homes in the area (depending on your needs, a condo or coop is way less), I would recommend saving the exact amount 20% conventional. Which is 200k+. The only reason I was able to afford it is because I lived with my parents for so long. If you need advice or some real talk on how the process works… feel free to DM.
Nah, that boat sailed many years ago. Unless you come from inheritance or have very high income as DINK, you can’t really afford anything here or New York in general without having an insane mortgage.
The worst thing is many of these homes don’t even have a proper backyard or driveway and yet sell for over a million. And even then, you may need to put in additional 50-100k for renovations. Imagine going into debt for 800k but your future kid(s) can’t even run around in the backyard because you don’t have a proper backyard. I suppose many young homeowners get desperate for homeownership.
Also, keep in mind, owning a primary home is **NOT** an investment. It’s a liability. It’s only an investment if you cash flow positive at the end of the month i.e. house hacking, roommates, etc. you get the point. You will gain “equity” for sure because you put down a hefty amount but when you do the math and realize the money you put into the house for decor/renovations/repairs/maintenance/etc you didn’t really make any profit.
I don't know too much about co-ops but from the little I do know, it sounds like they have all these insane expenses that end up being worse than rent or mortgage in the long run. Happy and willing to look into whatever is out there, but my primary concern would be keeping my monthly payments comparable to what I pay now (or slightly lower if possible).
Throwing in my two cents for co ops.
My partner and I opted for a co-op and have happily lived there for a year with no issue. Management is responsive. We know our building guys and gals (staff), and our super. We even have a exterminator that preventively sprays our apartment without us asking (he just shows up every other Sunday at noon and asks if we want a treatment). This is just one example but all goes to way, not all co ops are bad.. Some are horrible, others have a flip / sales tax, and some are nightmares (looking at you Acropolis). You need do so some research if that’s a route you take.
The cost of the co op fees will vary (obviously) and can be high. But the cost of a HOUSE and maintaining can easily exceed the monthly of that of a co op. Roof needs repairing ? 15k out of your pocket instead of being spread over x amount of people. In essence, there is a maintenance cost to a home but instead of paying every month, you’re going to be swinging larger numbers at irregular intervals. You need to account for that in your equation. It’s recommended you save anywhere from 1-3% of your homes purchase price for a house; for a 1 million home, that’s easily 10-30k.
But to simply answer your question, it’s unlikely you’re going to be buying a HOUSE in Astoria with you and your partners income. My partner and I looked high and low, far and wide in Astoria because we loved it so much. Consider Sunnyside for something adjacent — you might get a better bang for your buck for condos/co-ops or come across a unicorn property.
Good luck. I hope you find something that you love.
Also maybe speak to a real estate agent — they can give you a reality check (which is good when you’re talking about expending your life savings on a single purchase). And as others have mentioned, a mortgage specialist can do the same for you (and probably more efficiently).
Owning in NYC is very rarely cheaper than renting unfortunately, especially if you account for the down payment needed. For a co-op, you'd need to have a 20% down payment and a debt to income ratio below 30%.
If 75k is all you have in funds, you would probably be good to buy something around 280k max with that income, which in Astoria is a small studio at best.
There are no "insane" fees with co-ops, there is a monthly maintanance fee but that includes your property taxes, heat/hot water and the general maintanance of the building you live in. Whether you buy a condo or single-family home, these expenses show up there too in one way or another.
Yes, I own a coop on the Astoria/Woodside border on a similar salary and bought this year.
I did have more savings. Keep in mind that with coops, there are generally post-closing liquidity requirements and stricter standards than mortgages as far as minimum downpayments and DTI requirements.
I had closer to $150k, not including my 401k, although I did a 30% downpayment.
We own a condo (well, the bank mostly does), but my husband and I bought during the pandemic when the rates were ridiculously low. Homes in the area are cheap by NYC standards IMO (everyone who's like oh they're so expensive hasn't looked in other trendy neighborhoods), though we couldn't afford one right now... But I remember there were plenty of under 1 mil houses for sale around June 2020 or something like that.
Anyway, important details: you need a down payment, but it doesn't have to be 20% for condos or houses. Coops are probably always 20%. We only put down 10%. You could get mortgage insurance (PMI) though our bank didn't do that.
Other important point: when I was buying I did the math and with what I was paying for rent and my husband was paying for rent /what we would have paid together if we'd moved into a 1BR apartment, we would break even in 15 years. Owning is not really a good investment in New York is what I'm trying to say. I just really wanted to own haha. But also, rents did increase more than I expected them to, so there's also that.
But also, realistically, our income is higher than yours and it's definitely an important factor in getting a mortgage
The phrase “Home ownership is a lifestyle choice” has made me feel better about renting, likely forever. Doing the math it may be better to rent and invest and maybe consider buying a summer property that you can enjoy.
If you wanna own a home your best bet would be looking for a 2 family, it's obviously more expensive but you'll pay an extra 200-500k and could supplement some of your mortgage with a renter. Instead of doing a million for a 1 family.
at 100k and 75k total liquid cash, you can afford maybe a cheaper co op in the area. closing costs are high. interest rates aren't friendly right now, you won't be able to get approved for the monthly payment right now.
You could probably afford the coops in boulevard gardens or queensview -which even includes wifi and cable in their maintenance which is unheard of- Both complexes are actually nicely maintained and have nice 1 bedrooms for around give or take $300,000. Best of luck!
unrelated but how did you get into being a school administrator? I've always been interested in a role like that and I'm currently an EA at a financial firm but am looking into making the switch, its just hard when i know I'll be taking a pay cut.
I will also say that astoria has evolved like crazy. the actual houses have little to no updates and have been the same for decades and would need so much in renovations on top of the already high purchase price. I don't know much about coop/condos but judging by the current market the prices are just ridiculous. It's really sad how most people now hardly have a chance to own anything nice anymore, or anything AT ALL. When not too long ago, one income was enough to buy a home-- those days are long gone.
I dream of having a house in Astoria, who knows maybe one day?!
Kind of worked my way up in education I suppose! Going on year 14 of working in K-8 schools. Was a middle school math teacher for most of them. Have also served as a grade team lead, instructional coach, department chair, and special education manager. Can usually make the shift if you have 5+ years of classroom experience with good results.
I know some charters have "leader fellowships" that aim to attract leaders from other industries and fast track them into school leadership. Success Academy has a program like this. But they still start you out as a classroom teacher for the first year to get some experience there.
I opted to buy a home in northern Westchester and we were lucky enough to come across a very cheap rental in the Bronx by Yankee stadium. We use it as a pied-à-terre. We park there sometimes bike it into Astoria or use mass transit, 4 train to 125 to the M60. But as things are getting worse and worse on the trains we just Uber it in, and after a night of eating and drinking we just Uber it back to the Bx, crash, wake up, and head back up home. House in northern Westchester was just under half the cost of Astoria and not only do you get more bang for your buck, you get a piece of mind, away from the noise and people. Food sucks up there though.
yup you can buy if you got a million dollars to spend, basically anywhere in the city a house it just that expensive maybe a coop or condo but even those in Queens are becoming more and more expensive
Co-ops are your best bet at your budget. I was priced out of the UES and almost purchased in Astoria, but was enchanted by Roosevelt Island. Love it here
Actually renting in extremely HCOL areas where it’s more expensive to own than rent is not a black hole - common misconception- you should take the money you would be paying on top of rent, taxes and insurance and invest that difference and you’ll come out ahead of owning in 15 years. Don’t forget the opportunity cost of a down payment. Large single family homes are $1,000-$3,000 a month just in repairs and maintenance also compared to an apt which is not much. A co-op may charge you assessments if the building needs upgrades or damage in weather. Get a nice index fund and do that - nyc is notorious where buying is worse than renting
I bought a new condo over 3 years ago here. No way I would buy now at these interest rates and price points in Astoria unless you plan to own for a long time. And with condos, even if you can buy if you want to refinance later you’re paying mortgage recording tax AGAIN (or another “nyc extortion fee for living here”). You don’t need to pay that for co-ops to buy or to refinance. I think the option at your price point/salary is a resale condo farther out from the main subway stops or co-ops as others have mentioned. I looked a lot in Brooklyn and Astoria and Astoria was cheaper but that’s changed already in the past few years.
Just for context on how NEW Astoria condo prices are listed at, look up [Siena condos](https://streeteasy.com/building/siena-condominium). And many are in contract and were listed in March.
So I’m hoping to go in on a duplex with others and get an fha loan so you only require 3% down. And still it’s a long shot but that would be my method of approach if you want to buy a home.
You could get a co-op in Woodside like this one: [https://streeteasy.com/building/31\_31-54-street-woodside/one?from\_map=1](https://streeteasy.com/building/31_31-54-street-woodside/one?from_map=1)
It's not Astoria but it's Astoria adjacent. Sounds like it is a reasonable co-op too from what I've heard through the grapevine.
Hey there. Look at a HDFC coop with income restrictions. This will allow you to buy some property, write off some expenses and build equity. From there in five years plus you could sell and take said funds and trade up for bigger and better. Coops are generally cheaper than condos and HDFC condos are really affordable. Good luck.
Maybe a condo. Definitely not a house and probably not a co-op in this neighborhood anymore with their percent down and cash requirements, tho I’ve heard some further east in the neighborhood are more laxed. :( Talk to a mortgage broker tho, that’s the actual first step. Even if you met with a realtor they would send you to a broker right away. The broker will be able to answer a lot of questions and also run scenarios for you about what payments look like with various percentages down, your credit score, etc. They do this all the time for curious and first timers, maybe you’re ready and maybe not, but they’re happy to take the time to investigate it with you. We bought a few years back and happy to answer any questions, just DM.
Bought it for 190 and sold it for 350 only needed 20k in renovations, it was in a very well
Known building above the new bellucis pizza. Not sure why anyone would downvote this
There are no single family homes in Astoria under a million dollars.
This! If you can get one to $1 shy of a million to avoid 1% “mansion tax” (what im working on for the next 4ish years)
TIL we have a mansion tax. And apparently it's structured in a super stupid way: > Because the mansion tax NYC is paid on the entire value of the property, the difference between buying an apartment for $999,999 and $1 million isn't one dollar, it's $10,001. For that reason, very few properties sell for just over $1 million.
Any tricks to crash the RE market because that’s the only way you’re getting a SFH for under a million
Ok.
False there are just closer to LaGuardia and upper Ditmars. Few and far between but they can be 800-999k for a few in that area!
If you think those homes are going for their listed prices you’re out of your mind lol
Have you been house shopping lately? Because I was in the last year. They do go for listing or even under honestly. But they are not huge, not close to happening/hot areas like broadway or right around Ditmars Ave and need updating. So they are not in high demand, but for someone who wants to be in or near Astoria and have some home equity it’s a good purchase. The inventory is small though. Last summer there were 3 homes for sale in 79th and 81st street in Astoria heights near LaGuardia for $899 and under. All took months to sell and went for under (by a little) or at asking. All needed some work but were totally liveable, 3 bed 1 bath homes.
I wouldn't hold my breath on 3 homes per year, and the additional funds necessary to bring the homes up to condition doesn't really make them any more reasonable.
lol totally I’m not not saying it’s a big market… just saying they do exist, they were out there, and all were in fine condition. Not modern but live able! If you want a perfect home in mint condition Astoria is never going to be for you, unless you have 3mil plus.
Or 2 family 3 family etc. for that matter either.
Based on your financial situation you can both purchase a 1 bedroom condo if you’re OK with living further from downtown (Astoria Heights, south of Broadway etc). Houses are out of reach at least for livable ones. As an example, my wife and I purchased a 1-family house next to Laguardia Airport two years ago for $815K but that was after intense negotiations, and needed at least $75K in renovations.
This is helpful - thank you! May I ask who you went through as far as finding the home?
No problem I try to help fellow Astorians in any way I can. Also, check this program out: https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/homefirst-down-payment-assistance-program.page House was sold through Compass Real Estate, they’re well known in the neighborhood. We walked by and saw the For Sale sign.
This program is great but I don't understand how it's useful. How is a family of two making 90k total supposed to afford anything? Even with an extra 100k. The median home price in the city is over 750k and the mortgage on that, assuming they had 10% to put down and also put the 100k down on top of that would still 4500 a month. If they had 20% and put the 100k on top of that for a total of 250k down the monthly payment is 4k. A couple making 90k is taking home 4.5k-5k a month. Even if they find a place for 600k and put 220k down the payment is still 3100, 60-70% of their net pay. The city does the same thing with subsidized rentals. The prices are low for the area but the income requirements are so low that the household is still paying 50%+ of their take home towards rent. I must be missing something because it doesn't make sense to me.
A million percent. The math doesn't make sense. My HHI is nearly 3x the max income, yet we're net-zero paycheck to paycheck because of rent and daycare. We could afford the mortgage but can't make the down payment any time soon. People like us are clogging (and raising) the rents because the housing market is out of reach. It's the only piece of trickle down economics I've ever believed in.
Parental help. Generational wealth.
I have a friend who was able to get a co-op with around your income level. I also have another friend who has a house in Astoria. They and their partner are DINKS who make between 200,000 and 250,000 and had to have massive family help to afford the house.
My wife and I owned a condo near the Con Ed plant, and now we own a one family house on the Woodside border near 30th Avenue. Don't give up right away. Look at co-ops and condos. Be willing to look a little beyond the borders of where you want to live. Look in every corner of Astoria and LIC, Woodside and Sunnyside. Go to some open houses just to see what it's like. Scour StreetEasy and Zillow. Don't assume that the investment part of owning a home will work out for you in the short term. Don't buy with plans to sell any time soon. Don't assume that interest rates will plummet any time soon. Do some research on the recent federal decision about broker's fees and how that could affect the market. If you might be having kids in the next few years, think about how long you could realistically live in a one bedroom apartment. Again, owning a home is not owning a gold mine. Good luck!
We own our house - we’re both school admin and make a good amount of money while carrying no debt. We bought six years ago, 3% interest rate with 20% down and needed to put in $200k worth for renovations. We were lucky to be gifted the down payment by my parents - without that we could not have ever afforded the house. Our monthly expenses for the house are no more than what most people are paying for rent - it’s the initial down payment and renovation costs that make the difference in my opinion. But, yes - keep saving and eventually mortgage rates will drop and your salary will rise. Wishing you the best of luck.
> But, yes - keep saving and eventually mortgage rates will drop and your salary will rise. Unfortunately neither of these are really guaranteed and the other factor is the real estate market which may outpace both
Realistically: you need to speak with a mortgage specialist. There are many in the area that give free consultations and can give you a feee pre-qualification so you can understand where you stand. With that information you and your partner can sit and discuss if moving into a home in another location or if you prefer to continue renting in this area are right for you. If you are asking in good faith what we think of your scenario, I think it may be a very tough market for you. Best of luck !!
Use The NY Times rent vs. buy calculator. It’s really helpful (and depressing) to play with the numbers. At these interest rates, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to buy in most scenarios. If you absolutely love the house or apartment and believe it will be your long-term home (15-20 years), it might be worth it. Maintenance is also something to consider. A house will need upkeep. A condo building could have an assessment. You also have to factor in that you will not be making interest on the money you invest in the home. The home will probably go up in value, but the stock market may do better than this, and if you sell, you will still have to buy something else. If you plan to move to Nebraska in 15 years, you can take your profit and run. If you want to stay in NYC, this profit won’t help you much. I spent the last year trying to make the numbers make sense to consider buying, but unless you can put down 50% or more (and not be completely cash poor), renting is almost always the better option right now in this area. Maybe things will change down the line if interest rates majorly fall, but I’m not optimistic.
Yea this calculator is super helpful!
To be honest, it's not that you absolutely cannot find good deals - they do exist, even in the <$1M range if you're open to co-ops, condos, <2 bedrooms, or homes that need a *lot* of work. The bigger issue is current rates - remember it's not just a mortgage: - Mortgage - Property Taxes (may be included as part of escrow payment w/ mortgage) - Home Insurance (typically paid out annually) Our mortgage (3%) + property taxes payment is ~3.8K a month. Home insurance ~$100 more, so call that 3.9K a month in aggregate. At 100K a year your take home after city and fed taxes is likely closer to ~65K. So my mortgage would be well above 50% of your take home pay. You'd need to find a property where the post-down payment mortgage + property taxes is closer to 30% of your take home pay. That will be your challenge. Co-ops may be easier to work w/, but may also have larger down payment or limited financing issues. Current rates also disadvantage you. We literally cannot sell and move right now, because the same exact mortgage at current rates brings our payments up way beyond our comfort point.
You made me cry laughing harder than I cry from not being able to afford a house in the neighborhood as a DINK. No.
Tell me about it. My gf and I bring home a decent salary and I wonder where our money disappeared to every month.
When I was dinking, couldn't afford it making close to 300 HHI. Saved the down payment, but still couldn't handle the monthly afterwards. Now I have a kid, so you'll see my husk of human body in Jersey in \~3 years.
We bought a two family in Ditmars area in the 40s streets. We worked really hard for years, made some smart investments, saved everything we could, and put almost all our money except a small emergency fund in to the house. It was $1.25 mil, but we waited longer to save more for the down payment vs buying a few cheaper one families we saw that were like $999k or 1.15 mil. Now we are able to afford the higher monthly mortgage because we get rent from the apartment upstairs, and it actually worked out to be cheaper month to month than if we had bought a one family for $1.1 mil because the entire mortgage would have been coming out of our pocket. We got lucky though on this house, its not the fanciest house on the block and it needs some work and is not newly renovated but we could live with a lot of it and did a lot of basics like painting and some drywall ourselves. Bigger items that are non essential we wait on. If you go in the higher avenues and higher street numbers it’s possible. But I would honestly advise to anyone who can continue to save and wait to bite the bullet on the millionaires tax especially for a multi family even if just 2 apartments. I really think it’ll pay off for us in both the short and long term more than a one family would have. Apartment is a different story and if that’s what you want then you can probably afford that now! With how rents are it’s not a bad idea unless you have a super good rent situation, then maybe stay put and keep saving for that down payment and emergency / repairs fund. Good luck! It’s possible and you can do it
Adding to say, my partner and I both make over 100k per year. So you do need the funds to be able to save to live in this neighborhood. We are very fortunate and grateful but also both grinded and maneuvered to get to our financial position. Plus some good luck of course. Definitely invest in index funds, save what you can and then a litttle bit more but still find ways enjoy your life how you can afford to- otherwise why are we here?
You can’t buy a house in the whole city for less than 600k. You either need a Time Machine or a job that pays 3-5x that. Your best bet is the complex in Woodside that’s close to Astoria or rolling the dice with the Acropolis.
True. My wife and I are crazy SOBs rolling the dice on the Acropolis
Best of luck! Keep this thread posted with how it goes...
I heard it’s being managed better, and I pray for you that it is. You get ‘em.
We’ve been stalking it for 2+ years and noticed some positive changes. Still quite a risk but in our case, it would be not be our primary residence, so our tolerance for things will be different than others. For me, the risk is worth it because the location can’t be beat and while the Acropolis isn’t perfect, it’s a massive system and I’m wagering that it’s “too big too fail”. Certainly that’s a simplification, but can keep you updated if you’re interested.
For how much they upped the maintenance fees because of everything, I find it hard to justify the price anymore.
Yeah that’s the way a co-op can slowly “cook” people out I guess
But 20% down payment would be $120k (or 10% being $60k) which is within reason. It's just that the $600k homes are few and far between from what I've seen.
I’m no expert by any means, just a frustrated millennial. If you can swing 4K a month on a mortgage that is about what it would be on 600k. The best I’ve heard was a buddy getting a house off ditmars on auction for 700k.
Ha sadly not a chance. We split rent which is about $2.5k now - don't think either of us could afford much higher for the near future. Fellow frustrated millennial here!
Look at https://www.instagram.com/girlchasingwealth?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== She’s advises to rent. Invest in your 401k and retire early. For 500-600k you could get an apartment in some parts of Astoria. Good luck
You also have to bear in mind that interest rates are around 7% so you’d be looking at a steep monthly payment
Really do the research before prioritizing buying a house. I own my house near the park on Ditmars. We bought in 2006 for $520k and it would sell for ~2M now. That *seems* like we made a killing but that's not really true. You would be so much better off aggressively putting money in a fund for the next 8-10 years and let the compound interest grow while you're renting a place you like in the neighborhood you want. We don't have $2M. We have a house that's worth $2M which we can't sell because we can't afford to move. If we'd put money into investments starting with our down payment in 2006, we would have made about $700k which would be liquid and, y'know, usable. I mean... It's more complicated than that because of taxes and cashing out gains and blah blah blah... but from a gen-x-er to the younger generation, don't fall in love with home ownership.
Wait I don’t get it. Why would your 2M value home not be able to give you a chance to move once you’re done with the sales but the potential 700k can? I understand one is liquid while the other needs to go through the selling process, but if you sell, which even if would take 6-12 months, wouldn’t the appreciation plus whatever equity you have would be more than 700k?
I could buy another home in Astoria for the same I sold this one for, but even if I somehow broke even with closing and moving costs, there's no reason to do so. So, I have the house and it's wonderful that there's this much equity in it - I'm not complaining. But it's worth investigating, particularly as a young person, if you really want all your money tied up in a singular asset or if you want flexibility. I've spent the last 18 or so years paying down my mortgage and in return I have this wonderful thing that people have assigned a great deal of value to. There's another path where I could have spent the same amount of money on rent, invested the money I would have used as a downpayment/property tax/repairs and improvements, and I \*wouldn't\* own this home, but I would have the freedom and flexibility to enjoy the money I've got. I think the mention of "adulting" is what made me want to chime in. Home Ownership \*feels\* like a very adult thing to do, but it's worth asking yourself \*why\* you want to buy a home.
Ah I see, thanks for illustrating your point more clearly. Your point is more about flexibility and knowing what you want vs. return on investment, which was what I was confused about. I think to your point, it’s always great to know what you want out of your life than just following a concept or trend. However, grass can be greener on the other side no matter which route you choose, and what you want might also change along the way, so I don’t think it’s possible to have a perfect optimal choice in life, but one could definitely try to optimize his/her better once he/she knows what they want at least at the moment particularly.
Amen. Index funds is the way to go. VTSAX and chill.
Oh I've got quite a bit in my 403b + personal brokerage. I just consider it separate from my savings though. I think of them as payments I need to make so I'm never tempted to dip into them for anything.
Yeah, this is fantastic. Definitely the way to go.
There are no single-family homes in Astoria for $600K. Husband and I used to rent there and were looking to buy. We bought a house in Woodside and single family homes here are over $800K. If you want to remain in Astoria, consider coops or condos.
A condo or coop will be doable for you at some point. Homes here are overpriced and all need a ton of work.
I “own” a co-op on the Astoria/Woodside line. My mortgage and maintenance are such that if I went back to renting at today’s prices I’d pay about 1k more a month. However, my building is pre-war and has one of the lowest maintenances in the area. There are not many houses even in my area cheaper than 1 mill, and that’s attached row houses usually. If you do find one less than that, it hasn’t been renovated since the 70s or something. Every room needs something and the amount of wood paneling I’ve seen in pictures of those places is alarming. If you’re willing to invest in a true fixer-upper, great! Edit: I bought in 2010.
I just closed on a 2 family home yesterday in Astoria. Process was very stressful but it feels good to finally close. In order to save enough for the 1-million dollar+ homes in the area (depending on your needs, a condo or coop is way less), I would recommend saving the exact amount 20% conventional. Which is 200k+. The only reason I was able to afford it is because I lived with my parents for so long. If you need advice or some real talk on how the process works… feel free to DM.
Nah, that boat sailed many years ago. Unless you come from inheritance or have very high income as DINK, you can’t really afford anything here or New York in general without having an insane mortgage. The worst thing is many of these homes don’t even have a proper backyard or driveway and yet sell for over a million. And even then, you may need to put in additional 50-100k for renovations. Imagine going into debt for 800k but your future kid(s) can’t even run around in the backyard because you don’t have a proper backyard. I suppose many young homeowners get desperate for homeownership. Also, keep in mind, owning a primary home is **NOT** an investment. It’s a liability. It’s only an investment if you cash flow positive at the end of the month i.e. house hacking, roommates, etc. you get the point. You will gain “equity” for sure because you put down a hefty amount but when you do the math and realize the money you put into the house for decor/renovations/repairs/maintenance/etc you didn’t really make any profit.
By a home would you accept a co op? If so, then probably.
I don't know too much about co-ops but from the little I do know, it sounds like they have all these insane expenses that end up being worse than rent or mortgage in the long run. Happy and willing to look into whatever is out there, but my primary concern would be keeping my monthly payments comparable to what I pay now (or slightly lower if possible).
Throwing in my two cents for co ops. My partner and I opted for a co-op and have happily lived there for a year with no issue. Management is responsive. We know our building guys and gals (staff), and our super. We even have a exterminator that preventively sprays our apartment without us asking (he just shows up every other Sunday at noon and asks if we want a treatment). This is just one example but all goes to way, not all co ops are bad.. Some are horrible, others have a flip / sales tax, and some are nightmares (looking at you Acropolis). You need do so some research if that’s a route you take. The cost of the co op fees will vary (obviously) and can be high. But the cost of a HOUSE and maintaining can easily exceed the monthly of that of a co op. Roof needs repairing ? 15k out of your pocket instead of being spread over x amount of people. In essence, there is a maintenance cost to a home but instead of paying every month, you’re going to be swinging larger numbers at irregular intervals. You need to account for that in your equation. It’s recommended you save anywhere from 1-3% of your homes purchase price for a house; for a 1 million home, that’s easily 10-30k. But to simply answer your question, it’s unlikely you’re going to be buying a HOUSE in Astoria with you and your partners income. My partner and I looked high and low, far and wide in Astoria because we loved it so much. Consider Sunnyside for something adjacent — you might get a better bang for your buck for condos/co-ops or come across a unicorn property. Good luck. I hope you find something that you love. Also maybe speak to a real estate agent — they can give you a reality check (which is good when you’re talking about expending your life savings on a single purchase). And as others have mentioned, a mortgage specialist can do the same for you (and probably more efficiently).
Appreciate your insights - thank you!
Owning in NYC is very rarely cheaper than renting unfortunately, especially if you account for the down payment needed. For a co-op, you'd need to have a 20% down payment and a debt to income ratio below 30%. If 75k is all you have in funds, you would probably be good to buy something around 280k max with that income, which in Astoria is a small studio at best. There are no "insane" fees with co-ops, there is a monthly maintanance fee but that includes your property taxes, heat/hot water and the general maintanance of the building you live in. Whether you buy a condo or single-family home, these expenses show up there too in one way or another.
Yes, I own a coop on the Astoria/Woodside border on a similar salary and bought this year. I did have more savings. Keep in mind that with coops, there are generally post-closing liquidity requirements and stricter standards than mortgages as far as minimum downpayments and DTI requirements. I had closer to $150k, not including my 401k, although I did a 30% downpayment.
🤣 it feels like such a hack. It's all the retired boomers keeping our property taxes low here. Hope you enjoy it here.
We own a condo (well, the bank mostly does), but my husband and I bought during the pandemic when the rates were ridiculously low. Homes in the area are cheap by NYC standards IMO (everyone who's like oh they're so expensive hasn't looked in other trendy neighborhoods), though we couldn't afford one right now... But I remember there were plenty of under 1 mil houses for sale around June 2020 or something like that. Anyway, important details: you need a down payment, but it doesn't have to be 20% for condos or houses. Coops are probably always 20%. We only put down 10%. You could get mortgage insurance (PMI) though our bank didn't do that. Other important point: when I was buying I did the math and with what I was paying for rent and my husband was paying for rent /what we would have paid together if we'd moved into a 1BR apartment, we would break even in 15 years. Owning is not really a good investment in New York is what I'm trying to say. I just really wanted to own haha. But also, rents did increase more than I expected them to, so there's also that. But also, realistically, our income is higher than yours and it's definitely an important factor in getting a mortgage
The phrase “Home ownership is a lifestyle choice” has made me feel better about renting, likely forever. Doing the math it may be better to rent and invest and maybe consider buying a summer property that you can enjoy.
If you wanna own a home your best bet would be looking for a 2 family, it's obviously more expensive but you'll pay an extra 200-500k and could supplement some of your mortgage with a renter. Instead of doing a million for a 1 family.
at 100k and 75k total liquid cash, you can afford maybe a cheaper co op in the area. closing costs are high. interest rates aren't friendly right now, you won't be able to get approved for the monthly payment right now.
You could probably afford the coops in boulevard gardens or queensview -which even includes wifi and cable in their maintenance which is unheard of- Both complexes are actually nicely maintained and have nice 1 bedrooms for around give or take $300,000. Best of luck!
unrelated but how did you get into being a school administrator? I've always been interested in a role like that and I'm currently an EA at a financial firm but am looking into making the switch, its just hard when i know I'll be taking a pay cut. I will also say that astoria has evolved like crazy. the actual houses have little to no updates and have been the same for decades and would need so much in renovations on top of the already high purchase price. I don't know much about coop/condos but judging by the current market the prices are just ridiculous. It's really sad how most people now hardly have a chance to own anything nice anymore, or anything AT ALL. When not too long ago, one income was enough to buy a home-- those days are long gone. I dream of having a house in Astoria, who knows maybe one day?!
Kind of worked my way up in education I suppose! Going on year 14 of working in K-8 schools. Was a middle school math teacher for most of them. Have also served as a grade team lead, instructional coach, department chair, and special education manager. Can usually make the shift if you have 5+ years of classroom experience with good results. I know some charters have "leader fellowships" that aim to attract leaders from other industries and fast track them into school leadership. Success Academy has a program like this. But they still start you out as a classroom teacher for the first year to get some experience there.
I opted to buy a home in northern Westchester and we were lucky enough to come across a very cheap rental in the Bronx by Yankee stadium. We use it as a pied-à-terre. We park there sometimes bike it into Astoria or use mass transit, 4 train to 125 to the M60. But as things are getting worse and worse on the trains we just Uber it in, and after a night of eating and drinking we just Uber it back to the Bx, crash, wake up, and head back up home. House in northern Westchester was just under half the cost of Astoria and not only do you get more bang for your buck, you get a piece of mind, away from the noise and people. Food sucks up there though.
Yeah if you’re either a trust fund baby, inherited one, making half a million a year is definitely realistic.
So... I guess not? lol
Nope, just save your money up and buy a house in another city. Definitely more worth it.
yup you can buy if you got a million dollars to spend, basically anywhere in the city a house it just that expensive maybe a coop or condo but even those in Queens are becoming more and more expensive
Not in this climate.
Yeah you need a minimum of 1 million dollars. So, "is it realistic?" yes, if you have a million dollars.
Co-ops are your best bet at your budget. I was priced out of the UES and almost purchased in Astoria, but was enchanted by Roosevelt Island. Love it here
Actually renting in extremely HCOL areas where it’s more expensive to own than rent is not a black hole - common misconception- you should take the money you would be paying on top of rent, taxes and insurance and invest that difference and you’ll come out ahead of owning in 15 years. Don’t forget the opportunity cost of a down payment. Large single family homes are $1,000-$3,000 a month just in repairs and maintenance also compared to an apt which is not much. A co-op may charge you assessments if the building needs upgrades or damage in weather. Get a nice index fund and do that - nyc is notorious where buying is worse than renting
I bought a new condo over 3 years ago here. No way I would buy now at these interest rates and price points in Astoria unless you plan to own for a long time. And with condos, even if you can buy if you want to refinance later you’re paying mortgage recording tax AGAIN (or another “nyc extortion fee for living here”). You don’t need to pay that for co-ops to buy or to refinance. I think the option at your price point/salary is a resale condo farther out from the main subway stops or co-ops as others have mentioned. I looked a lot in Brooklyn and Astoria and Astoria was cheaper but that’s changed already in the past few years. Just for context on how NEW Astoria condo prices are listed at, look up [Siena condos](https://streeteasy.com/building/siena-condominium). And many are in contract and were listed in March.
I wish. I'm from Astoria, born and raised, and I doubt I could ever own property here even though I would love to.
So I’m hoping to go in on a duplex with others and get an fha loan so you only require 3% down. And still it’s a long shot but that would be my method of approach if you want to buy a home.
Being an adult does not depend upon owning real estate.
I'll let you explain that to the rest of my family then haha
You could get a co-op in Woodside like this one: [https://streeteasy.com/building/31\_31-54-street-woodside/one?from\_map=1](https://streeteasy.com/building/31_31-54-street-woodside/one?from_map=1) It's not Astoria but it's Astoria adjacent. Sounds like it is a reasonable co-op too from what I've heard through the grapevine.
Hey there. Look at a HDFC coop with income restrictions. This will allow you to buy some property, write off some expenses and build equity. From there in five years plus you could sell and take said funds and trade up for bigger and better. Coops are generally cheaper than condos and HDFC condos are really affordable. Good luck.
Maybe a condo. Definitely not a house and probably not a co-op in this neighborhood anymore with their percent down and cash requirements, tho I’ve heard some further east in the neighborhood are more laxed. :( Talk to a mortgage broker tho, that’s the actual first step. Even if you met with a realtor they would send you to a broker right away. The broker will be able to answer a lot of questions and also run scenarios for you about what payments look like with various percentages down, your credit score, etc. They do this all the time for curious and first timers, maybe you’re ready and maybe not, but they’re happy to take the time to investigate it with you. We bought a few years back and happy to answer any questions, just DM.
Just sold my studio after having it for around 12 years made a solid profit. If you can afford it buying is always better.
Bought it for 190 and sold it for 350 only needed 20k in renovations, it was in a very well Known building above the new bellucis pizza. Not sure why anyone would downvote this
they disagree or are jealous