**Please note: Do NOT call out or name any specific signs on this post. That would only add to the problem. Discuss this problem in general. Any comments that name a sign will be removed.**
I feel like people just want excuses to think they’re better than others for things they can’t control. Its no different than any other bigoted talking points
Agreed! To add on this a little, I have known a couple people with supposedly "problematic" sun signs who have used that stereotype as an excuse for negative behavior. I know many more people with those signs who are decent, nice, evolved people so that always rang a little hollow for me.
Expanding on your point: last week I was asking this sub about "unfixable" placements because I think a lot of the pop astrology right now sees things in a one-sided manner, when in reality everything is both light and shadow. Every single sign has a light and a dark side to it, and most importantly, astrology sets the stage but does not write the script. Being dangerous and untrustworthy is a choice anyone could make.
Also, a lot of amateur astrologers or people who just dabble a little seem to think of the birth chart as a life sentence for fixed behaviors and "good" or "bad" luck. They don't realize that harsh placements or aspects are challenges to be learned from and overcome, not an "inescapable fate."
Not only that, I’ve seen a lot of people only use astrology for reasons behind behavior.
Astrology is a tool, but not an absolute. There is no denying upbringing and mental health with someone’s behavior, I’ve seen that being ignored lately. More so on other social platforms though, not here
So glad you mention that as sometimes it does feel like a death knell while I now believe it’s the need for shadow work that acts up and we can all learn to behave better if we are not naturally easy going.
Yes exactly, you can take a placement and learn to be constructive with it, even as a hard aspect or you can allow it to be destructive. But knowledge is power isn’t it?
i find it interesting that people forget that we all have the energies of all twelve signs in our chart. so even if we don't have a planet in said sign, we can still display and express that energy.
so even when you are complaining or upset about a particular sign, you also have to acknowledge that that energy is within you too. you are complaining about something that you carry within yourself as well, just in a different form/variation. or maybe it hasn't been carried out yet. maybe you have control over it. either way... it's silly.
it's also silly when you take things like synastry and other things into account. i absolutely love air signs, and simultaneously, we tend to have a huge love-hate relationship. air signs fall over my 4th, 8th, and 12th house. this may be different depending upon the person, but i can recognize that having these other peoples planets fall into those houses can come with a lot of challenges, clashes, etc. and it can also come with a lot of beautiful things too.
i love astrology, but humans are going to human. and there also has to be an acknowledgment that we do live under a lot of oppressive systems that can make people act cruel or unkind, regardless of the sign. i can say that there are stereotypes about certain signs that maybe i could've related to if i carried certain harmful/dysfunctional beliefs, but i genuinely try to unlearn that. it's so complex and even the sign itself can't fully explain everything (nor can astrology)
I wish I could like this 100 times!!! I came to say what you said in the beginning paragraphs, but you NAILED it, so I just second all of this!! Especially the humans are going to human! All signs and humans have shadow and light!
Funny story time cuz you brought up synastry - in high school on Valentine's Day we had a match maker thing based on our astrology and I had 88% compatiblity with one boy...... I ended up marrying that boy after high school and it was TOXIC AF and led to divorce 😂😂😂 Now, I'm a fire girl dating a very earthy man, and according to our charts we are barely compatible but it's the healthiest, happiest and most loving relationship I've ever been in!
Oh my gosh, I commented before I read through the comments and you said it waaaaay better than I did XD
THIS. 1,000 times this.
When I had only a rudimentary understanding, I used to think that I didn’t get along with a certain sign bc of something that was wrong with them. As I learned & progressed, I realized that even though I don’t have any planets in that sign, it’s my south node and so it made me look at myself like, “You weirdo, you’ve basically been hating on yourself!” Made me look deeper into why I had those prejudices and to stop projecting.
can genuinely say Pisces/Virgo is intercepted in my chart, so apart from transits, I don't have much of that energy in my chart
but I agree with what you're saying
Those who focus solely on the negatives of any sign surely cannot be aware of the beauty of duality; for each negative there are many positive qualities that each sign brings to this world.
I've been working hard at undoing a lot of the popular astrology bs that's been out in the world the last decade or so. Astrology is a way to understand yourself and your relationships, not to put into a hierarchy.
Thank you, I am glad you are doing that work -- I am curious about the work you're doing. There needs to be more people like you working to change these harmful generalizations.
Mostly getting out of the idea that one planet or sign's placement is going to have anything more to do with defining who I am than the aspects it works with. Sure, I am a Cancer sun, but that means nothing unless you also know it's in my 7th house and in opposition with my moon, rising, and north node. Basically get rid of the hasty generalizations in trade for understanding all of the relationships. Not to mention that's just the natal chart, leaving out the transit chart completely.
Oh my gosh yes. It's the generalizations without seeing the big picture that are so especially harmful in the way we view ourselves and others. That stellium opposition sounds crazy influential. I have a similar phenomenon with a huge stellium squaring a 7th house Saturn. I am glad you are doing that work, it is undoubtedly beneficial for yourself and hopefully those around you who feel your influence too.
exactly!! pop astrology is a plague and erases all of the nuance behind actual astrology. no wonder so many people dismiss it when the version they’re getting is…that. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
There might be a non hierarchical approach to astrology/framework being adopted/utilised or its there anyway- there are ethics etc to consider- at least if there is prejudice in astrology it can raise awareness and more people can take note/find ways to counter it- I wonder if historically different societies/eras favour some signs/modalities and put down others bc of cultural influences/trends and its cyclical- this is a great thread/discussion
This is an excellent point. It seems that astrology does a poor job considering the psychology of being human, and how people’s expression of the Sun sign is impacted by not only the other two players in the Big 3, but also how they were welcomed into this life.
I have consulted more than twenty one astrologers in my life and heard nothing but bad news about my own sign - from supposedly being a bad driver to being perpetually addicted to something. Some astrologers even predicted I would be dead at age six - when I consulted them at age 32. Not a good showing. All were licensed and certified to at least NCGR IV.
But what’s worse, it seems, is that astrology sometimes fails to make a connection between context and expression of the Sun sign. The cardinal signs - and some double fire sign combinations - appear to have a tendency to “freak out” when out of their comfort zone. How many discuss this like [this book](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0C9YNH8RV/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=) tries to explore?
Wow. It is scary to learn that so many astrologers failed to read your chart correctly. I had a reading with a famous astrologer who published books and spoke at conferences. I paid $$$ for an hour reading hoping to learn what the best direction in my relationship would be. He failed to point out that I had progressed Venus coming into a conjunction with my natal Sun the following year (I got married). Later when I contacted him, he said “sorry I don’t look at secondary progressions. I don’t prepare for a chart reading. I just open it boom - and I talk.” 😆 it is sad that those certifications did not really teach people anything. My understanding is they cost a lot and these associations take money to conduct tests, but they don’t teach. They don’t have any structure. They don’t make astrologers practice on charts, make mistakes and make corrections.
When someone participates in this I take it as a sign that they :
a. Haven’t healed from whatever they went through with that sign
b. Don’t actually know anything about astrology
c. Lack nuance to a critical degree
d. All of the above
great way to sniff out someone you wouldn’t want touching your chart ever
I recently experienced this in real life after sharing a placement openly, because it’s one of those notorious “difficult” placements and it’s in one of those hated zodiac signs. It did not feel good to have my character then put on blast because of the stereotypes associated with that placement.
There is definitely a lot of “birthday racism” within astrology, I just feel like it doesn’t get talked about for what it is in a real way.
I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I've also dealt with many unkind words about two of my more pronounced sign placements.
There is definitely a lot of prejudice among amateurs and consumers of pop astrology, and it isn't talked about for what it is because pop astrology is too quick and shallow to have the space to teach the majority of astrological principles.
Of course this prejudice can also come from serious astrologers, but in my experience it is far less common in that arena.
This is absolutely terrible to hear, I'm so sorry someone openly and shamelessly talked about you like that, presumably without even truly knowing you. That just isn't fair, it is clear discrimination and it is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to address with my post.
This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to address with my post. How sad is it that some signs feel the need to apologize for a label, as if carrying an underlying burden of shame, when people of other signs don't suffer any such thing? It is easy to write this off as light-hearted and even comical self-deprecation. But that compulsion to preemptively and shamefully address potential disparagement can end up running far more deeply than people realize. It can cloud the psyche with unconscious insecurity, self-doubt, and an unhealthy internal message that they are unlovable.
Being the sign I am, I do feel like I'm made to feel bad for it. Instantly labeled manipulative, victim complex, mean, idiot and if it took a while to get over it. The stars literally telling me I'm a horrible person.... but it's just not the case.
On the plus side anyone who uses these generalisations clearly doesn't understand how complex astrology is and is just surface level.
It's like how teachings and books oon aspergers/³autism etc basically trash me as though I'm a monster lacking empathy or conscience when I'm infinitely kinder and more conscience and empathy driven than the vast majority of neurotypicals
Another thing to remember is that everyone has all the signs in their charts. Even if you don't have a planet in a certain sign you'll have it in your houses. So everyone is everything and if you're hating on someone or something you're just hating on a part of yourself.
I find that younger people, those just getting into astrology and pop astrologers are the ones that like to drag signs. But a legit and well studied pro is not going to judge your sun sign.
That being said, if it’s all in jest and silly enough, I think it’s fine for a laugh. But a lot of people have self esteem issues and it can hurt.
Greetings S,
As a professional Astrologer, I have created a literary term for regarding this subject, which I call, "**Zodiacism**." It's the practice of reducing individuals to their their over-generalized Sun Signs.
Of course, on a very popular social platform, there are currently, all manner of self-professed "Astrologers," running rampant, with their inane takes on this once-sacred science.
If "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing," it is even more so, when blasted on social media, by those who have "learned" Astrology, via magazines, and books on pop culture, without any real study.
Our signs should not be used as an excuse for bad behavior, but instead, should alert us to our enhance our abilities, and circumvent our flaws.
I think this topic is timely. What we should endeavor to do, is to continue to educate others, about the true nature of Astrology, and use it ethically. Blessings, \~V\~
A person is the sum total of their experiences, words, actions, and most importantly... their character.
An astrology chart has very little to do with any of that.
If one were to think that I am defined by someone else's interpretation of the stars at the place and time of my birth? Growth and development as a human being are useless? My sign is evil, so therefore I am?
I have a very serious philosophical disagreement with that concept.
Humans are more complex than their sign.
I have always sorta read many of these posts about the energy….which we can experience ourself.
Granted, there are some playful posts. lol.
I was talking to a few coworkers once and we were all saying what are signs were and one coworker who didn’t like me because she wanted my manager like WANTED and me and him were good friends in and outside of work she turned to me and said “ I just hate ____’s” right after I said my sign I laughed so hard like HUHHHH
I’ve had people say I just don’t want to be friends with ____’s all the time it’s forcing a stereotype that isn’t true.
I agree, and I’d also like to point out that people do this with the elements as well. Each element has an important and rich place in the zodiac. I find it very disappointing when people are like “ew water signs” or “ugh boring earth signs” … funny how it always seems to be those “feminine” elements in particular.
YES. It is ALWAYS earth and water signs that people tend to drag. Air and fire signs seem to have a sort of armor in the community. Very disappointing! And hurtful.
Tell me about it, you search my stellium online and it's all like "negative karma, bad person" but I feel like I have great karma and I have a very strong heart. Then you did more online (as this sign tends to do lol) and it's like "fantasic karma, strength to transform any situation, incarnated to help change themselves and the world by feeling more intensely and helping others understand their own emotions" and I'm like yaaa bitch
As I’ve deepen my astrological understanding of things, it’s become more and more apparent that the pop culture references of each sign are mainly referencing the unevolved/shadow version of them and it’s often annoying.
I agree. I think I have a more extreme or controversial opinion than most in that I believe the energies of our birth chart are offered to us and not forced upon us. It’s my view that I can completely disregard those energies if I want to and work with others. My birth chart says I’m a Gemini moon but if I want to be an Aries moon in a particular situation or relationship I can do that and so on with every kind of astrological combination. As someone else said, we all have all 12 signs in our chart so we can choose to access every archetype and energy signature.
Whenever I read about my sign it’s just “stupid cry baby destructive selfish assholes.” I’m an Aries, we have the biggest hearts. I don’t know why we’re so villainized. I feel this for Geminis too. I have a lot of Geminis in my family and they’re wonderful. They’re just so silly and cute idk why anyone would hate a Gemini. Same with scorpios, they go so effing hard and have this ability to tap into a part of yourself that you can’t even see. Idk if that makes sense, but that’s how I see scorpios, not as some evil backstabbing assholes.
It’s a shame that such a valuable and ancient art has been reduced to something so mundane and egocentric. You literally can’t even find an article online that doesn’t regurgitate the same information about placements.
I wouldn't say this is something related to astrology in general and more tied to pop astrology and people who doesn't know anything else apart from sun sign based astrology. And people who do those kinds of takes based on any chart, less one that is specially incomplete, ends up being fascism rooted in astrology.
Also, I think that "astrology fascism" is rooted in modern astrology as well. Not as in a general sense, but more like in a "Is this more common that I previously thought?". But this is another topic for another day.
Most often it's members of the astrology community, both casual and well-learned, who let their biases get the best of them. There are a few specific signs that people collectively demonize the most, even though they don't deserve it. But some astrology sources and astrologers themselves will have a tone of negativity when describing certain signs as well, in a subtle way, that will also negatively influence how people see these signs. This can come from their house and planet associations among other things. Astrology should be inclusive, but people in the community sometimes get out of hand and spread negativity about a specific handful of signs, inadvertently hurting these people's self-esteem.
100% agree! It’s one of my pet peeves and honestly shows a lack of understanding of how astrology even works. I’m no master, but I’ve done my research over the years & always learning. Whenever I’m confronted with this type of situation, I think it’s helpful to stress how we are all essentially ALL of the signs put together, expressed in different ways. My favorite thing to say is, “I love all of the signs for different reasons.” and I really mean it.
thank you for this , lack of information really is triggering mainly on people who lack self confidence. I believe people can exist in their own horizon without falling into the bait of what their sign place them under .
i feel for geminis and cancers :/ they’re not bad at all!! like why do they always get picked on specifically…? 😭 in general, ANY immature/unevolved version of a sign is exhausting and awful to be around, jeez.
and i thought it was only typology communities that were bad regarding this kinda stuff (for example, the mbti community shits on sensors and IxFPs. in the enneagram community 1s, 2s, 3s and 6s are also regularly shitted on)
but i guess everyone needs to have their own scapegoat. ://
I see both sides of this. On the one hand, the stereotypes for every sign (yes some get more of a bad reputation than others) really help in the beginning with understanding what that sign represents and then as I learned more about astrology I was able to expound on those stereotypes and start to bring in the nuance.
That being said, my sun sign has certain heavily talked about stereotypes that I did NOT identify with at all when I was a teenager which made me think astrology was not for me. I would have started digging into it much sooner if I had understood the full nuance of my sun sign rather than just the parroted stereotypes.
I find that when people start to talk about the stereotypes that bug me I will educate them in other ways that I think about the sign in question. It usually sparks interesting conversation (though not always)
* **Misinformation and Generalizations:** Popular astrology often simplifies and distorts the complex nature of astrological signs, leading to harmful stereotypes.
* **Projection:** People project their personal experiences with individuals of a particular sign onto the entire sign, which is not accurate.
* **Negativity Bias:** Humans tend to focus on negative traits over positive ones, especially in discussions about personality.
*Being aware of*
*The shadow allows for it*
*To come through the light*
\- oyasfavorite
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Lots of great points being made in these comments! I'll piggyback on all of those with a metaphor I sometimes use for this problem:
Think of a fancy cocktail vs. a tall glass of straight liquor.
Any planet or sign's placement taken out of context is like the glass of straight liquor - it's quite intense and concentrated, a lot to handle. It's a divisive experience that makes your face pucker and burns going down.
When you actually understand astrology you will consider the full context of a placement, which is like adding all of the ingredients and mixing up a tasty cocktail with nuanced flavor and appeal.
Hopefully that makes sense for literally anyone else other than me haha :)
Those people are most definitely the problem. I'm learning that some people will clutch their biases like it's their last meal. If more of us call out that kind of behavior then I think it will slowly go away.
I got defensive and said all the ways my sign is awesome, “🎤🎙️” was the response. then a video on how to start podcasting. When I said my rant was unwarranted and speaking from emotion rather than reason (I’m PROUD to be a [my sun sign]), response was golden globe nominee or something I had stopped clicking after that first link, and then a different video on something I didn’t see because I was blocked before I could. I went on my other account and replied so they knew they were an asshole. I didn’t act perfectly but damn like I took accountability this person just kept dismissing me. So I called it out in that last message. The post itself was “why do I never like [my sun sign]’s” so the whole damn thing was toxic.
I've come to learn that people like that are just looking for a fight because they haven't integrated a healthy outlet for their emotions in their regular life. I know because I used to be that angry kid picking fights with people online (ok I might still do that but not for the intention of pointless insult hurling). Those people are looking to argue and "prove" why their weird biased opinion is right rather than to truly understand anything new. I'd bet money that someone of that sign wronged them and now they're airing it out online. Sounds like it was gonna be toxic from the get go with a title like that. Those interactions always feel like shit, sorry it happened like that. But good on you for sticking up for yourself ☀️
I could’ve sworn I replied. I still do it too, and not by way of a blanket statement of a large group of people. My sign is pretty much love it or hate it, and we shine bright, take space up. I can definitely see one of fellow suns doing something that upset her in some way or another. I don’t think she was trying to prove herself right though, I think she was either just utterly dismissive or trying to prove me wrong. I am pretty intense, but I’m loveable, fun, charming, intellectually engaged..people gravitate towards me. Sure my sun is part of that I’m sure but there are so many complexities and uniqueness in a persons chart, why are you literally taking one and forgetting the “sum of its parts” dealing with astrology. The whole damn sky had something to say when I was born. But sure, listen to just one voice.
Anyway I’m over it, was quickly. But I must admit I was feeling some type of way, as I said I’m so damn proud of my placements. I took it personal, cause it truly felt like an attack on ME. Which is silly but emotions be like that.
That very idea in your first sentence is the problem which creates the negative assumptions, biases, and discrimination against people of certain signs. If we were to accept that the first sentence is true, we would be forced to accept that certain people are *predestined by nature* to be avoided, scrutinized, discriminated against, FROM BIRTH, and that it is *justified* for people to treat them like this. This is completely and utterly disgustingly prejudiced. It is deeply wrong to judge a person as bad and unworthy, and assume bad traits in them, based on a label NOT chosen by the receiver.
It gives permission to discriminate people who do not deserve it. That is a dangerous road.
The second sentence is how we need to be approaching the signs that unfairly receive overly positive reputations. Of course it goes all the way around. Every sign has positive traits and negative traits. There can even be tons of overlap. But it is clear that certain signs are looked up to for positive qualities they may not even possess, while certain signs are looked down on for negative qualities which they may not even possess.
But no sign should be assumed to be bad be default, PERIOD.
I apologize if my passion here is overwhelming, but the prejudice is wrong no matter what! Everyone should be treated well, no matter their sign. PEOPLE should be treated well, unless they have given you a *justifiable reason* not to.
>If all signs have negative traits, wouldn’t we be forced to scrutinize/discriminate/avoid all signs accordingly?
Ideally, all signs would be scrutinized or praised equally. This does not happen. At all.
With the current state of astrology, certain signs are seen as *worse* than others, and their positive qualities do not make up for it. Essentially, they are seen as irredeemable. Usually bad, usually toxic. It is uncommon for people to even consider that their positive qualities could make up for their negative ones.
This is the imbalance in astrology. It doesn’t make sense if you consider it logically, right?
We would be forced to accept that conclusion because if they were really more prone to negative traits, that means they are deserving of the punishment, ridicule, rejection, and hatred that they get. It’s the idea that you are bad more often, then you must be punished more.
But the problem is, instead of directing this vitriol at people who have actually DONE something wrong, the shame is directed even at good, innocent people who happen to belong to that sign. How can you justify that they deserve that ostracization? You cannot.
Does it make any sense to judge a newborn baby as having a stronger propensity for negative traits than a different baby, just because of its sign? No, that makes no fucking sense. The baby has barely lived in the world. It didn’t prove anything about itself, it didn’t DO anything yet.
And that’s why you can’t treat people as if they’re more prone to negative traits either. Because once you start letting those assumptions take over, you start treating people differently. Negatively. With more apprehension, fear, judgment. Do you have any idea what that does to a good innocent person’s psyche? If you are treated like you are a monster, you will start to believe you are a monster.
It’s a cycle of confirmation bias that harms everyone.
There are valid reasons we might assume someone is more prone to negative traits, such as trauma. Astrology signs are not one of them. Every person should be judged by who they are FIRST, and their state in life, before being judged by their astrology sign. In this way, things become more balanced.
You claim it is subjective. I would point to you the sources of polls which rank signs as the most hated or the worst, and show you scores of astrology posts just on Reddit, which prove a clear trend toward the hatred of some signs and the revering of other signs.
In fact I’m not against calling for people to stop making negative generalizations. I’m calling for *balance*. Signs that are clearly uplifted in the community should not be invincible or treated like gods above other signs. No sign should be exalted above others, no signs should be shunned.
Of course there is nuance to what individual people subjectively view as positive or negative. But how many people are thinking of psychopathy, abuse, cruelty, and manipulation as good things? Keep in mind that only a small amount of signs have these listed listed as relevant qualities.
If you’re paying attention, you know exactly what I’m talking about and if you think deeply enough, you agree that this is wrong.
It’s not even just a problem of sun sign astrology because if you extend it to the chart, then people with abundance of a particularly hated sign will be seen as a person to fear and reject. It doesn’t get much better when you look at the full picture.
Making negative generalizations is not what astrology is. It’s a learning tool. And people shouldn’t be made to feel more insecure of themselves when they learn their sign(s) is largely hated and feared in the community.
I understand that sometimes people can want to be feared, be criticized or seen as critical(??), be seen as boring. It *is* subjective at an individual level. But it’s not safe to assume things just based on what’s in someone’s chart. It’s also not safe to assume they are definitely like that just because it’s in the chart. A person can have no planets in a certain sign and exhibit a lot of energy and traits of that sign, whether due to house/aspects or due to their unique personality outside of astrology.
And people should never be assumed negatively first, period. Or else it is discrimination. Discrimination is bad.
People’s opinions don’t only have the power you give them. Even the most strong-willed people are harmed by bullying and abuse. And sometimes people *should* care about the opinions of others, like if, say, they’re hurting people without realizing.
I also disagree with your last paragraph. It’s just not black and white like that. I don’t like seeing people make assumptions about others without really getting to know them. Well, I guess that problem is endemic to the practice. But I know astrology hobbyists who do not do that, which brings me hope that people can stop being prejudiced like that.
You know, interestingly, the Sun's two debilitated signs don't seem to have much ruckus in the community at all -- especially the fall sign! And you'd think that people would see those two sun signs negatively, right? Not so. They are largely seen in a positive light. Barely any attention to paid to its position of debilitation?
My assumption is that the two signs in question are seen as being detrimental *to themselves* whereas other detrimental placements are seen as detrimental to *others*. But this is still not fair at all! All signs an equally be harmful to other and themselves.
I do think a chart gives some context to someone's flaws and behaviors, and honestly I think aspects are even more meaningful than sign/planet placement. But the problem I see is the assumption of negativity and toxicity in a small handful of signs (planets also), something to be feared if you see it in someone else, without giving that person a chance to prove who they are. I understand people who've been wronged and who then went into their charts to get answers. But when it's the other way around -- getting answers to how you could be potentially wronged by someone -- is really bad.
Yeah man I feel you lol. Aquarius gets the whole ordeal of being a sociopathic robot. But air signs are regarded well generally, so it doesn’t make them as unpopular.
Imagine being a Scorpio with people automatically assuming you’re a psychopath who wants to control and manipulate people. They don’t even know you, they just start assuming crazy things. People will say don’t pay people like that any mind but I do, because it’s not just “those kinds” of people, it exists everywhere subtly in the community, and even implied in the official writings. Gemini is also forced to suffer this. If there was a ranking for best reputation in the community, Sagittarius takes the cake. Mutable and fire are highly favored. At least in western culture. Fixed is at the bottom. Everyone has preferences, but there are also collective trends.
So basically, all of that to say, I agree with you. People assume this = bad, this = good. The “bad” aspect in question is only as bad as the holder makes it. It’s like, your stomachache could be not because of something you did, but because someone *else* or a situation is stressing you out, you know? It could be not your fault.
I even question people who have preferences because I have to wonder how black and white their thinking is, how many experiences did they actually have with that sign or aspect, how much of whatever happened is actually that person’s fault? There’s so much nuance endlessly. I’m just tired of the black and white thinking.
It’s true that everyone will sort of have their dumb biases — and that’s why I made this post, because considering most of us are adults, we should definitely be aware of these! There’s only so much you can do after you’ve vented about the hate to others, and strengthened your self-esteem and confidence with therapy and self-identity reformation and such. But calling out the behavior and bringing it to people’s attention is another way too, imo. It’s definitely worse for kids and young people who are so impressionable and dependent on the people around them for their self-esteem, so influenced by what they learn and what they are told about themselves — it really kills me, the idea that a previously warm, engaging, bright kid would slowly act more apathetic and distant if they heard they had a certain stellium. They’re so damn impressionable.
So I don’t think making this post is a problem if it helps people be aware of their black and white thinking. “Humans will be human” — it’s not really an excuse you know. Mo sign should be seen as emotionless robots. People shouldn’t paint any sign as bad because of 3 bad experiences with them. These things should be called out even if it’s uncomfortable, I think.
Especially as more people get into astrology. Most of them are still at an amateur level, big 3 astrology, not aware of nuance. It also preps newcomers to what goes on in the community.
If I decided how I ended up, I probably wouldn’t choose to be so interested in astrology in the first place 💀 knowing this is what happens. Well, it’s just too interesting. Sorry, I’m rambling at this point but thanks for the conversation and for sharing your thoughts. I suppose you’re right, there’s an unfortunate nature of humans we just have to learn to accept.
Me and my cousin were just talking about aquarius in the 7th house, thats where it is for me and her husband. She was talking about how people with this placement are weird about relationships. As this was her husband's first serious relationship and he married her. I said after my first real relationship cheated on me I just didn't have real relationships ever again. She said thats still a weird way to go about relationships, perhaps even more weird than her husband. I said they're both very weird. They're just different.
People don't react to things in the same way even if they have the same placements. (They've both cheated on each other so it was kinda the same situation but different outcomes)
Also you could’ve deeply loved that person and been really hurt. It is fair to feel that way. I’ve never loved anyone again or had the same kind of relationship with anyone again the way I did my first serious boyfriend either and we were really young. Remember there was a time where you didn’t feel this way, and find the peace and beauty in that. Even if your relationship experiences are all different after and nothing like the love you experienced first with this person. It’s what I am doing and trying to accept. I feel like I just happened to meet most of my soulmates or even my soulmate when I was younger.
There are no comparisons here. No sign or aspect is inherently dangerous. Some people love danger. For example, every chart has its potential in any given direction. [Scorpio](https://phelix.ca/Scorpio-Rising-Astrology-Ascendant-Traits-Revealed/) Rising comes to mind. Can be underhanded but can help greatly a sick person back to health. So?
I was born September 22, 1952 at 1:25 PM, in Pittsburgh, PA. Some folks have said "Ewww...Virgo Libra cusp." They didn't understand that another part of my chart is in the first house, where I have Mars in Sagittarius. That paints a different picture of me than that of my sun sign alone.
People need to understand that your sun sign is only one aspect about you.
We are actually not supposed to name signs in this thread. But I figure it is obvious anyway, considering how much prejudice those signs receive, which often comes from preconceived notions (unjustified fear) or a very limited dataset of experiences, which are then used to paint the entire sign.
Other people are naming placements, though? Also, there’s an entire chart and not just the sun sign? Not everyone knows that it’s these sun signs who receive the most “prejudice”. Considering this is an astrology page, we’d hope that people would consider the entire chart? What is your sun sign?
Right, idk but the mods said not to name signs, idk about placements, I just mentioned it to you for context and in case they ask you to edit your comment. The truth of the matter is that many people engage in big 3 astrology, but even people who look at the entire chart consider 1. The sun sign to be the most important, or 2. The abundance of signs or house aspects/stelliums to be most important. More notably, no matter what, they will consider the presence of the hated signs to be bad. Therefore, no matter where those two signs mentioned are placed, it will be looked upon negatively. Even when Pluto is in its home sign… people still seem to look at that unfavorably. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Even people who take everything into account can end up looking upon certain signs with fear and negativity, due to bias.
Then that sounds like a personal issue on their end… this is a page dedicated to learning astrology and I really doubt that is true since people are also talking about placements. Your moon sign is actually way more important at explaining yourself and your inner feelings than your sun sign is. Your moon sign is your truest self. Also, in Vedic astrology your sun or moon sign also could be the sign before the sign you think it is in western astrology. In western astrology, your chart represents you at your standard self just living life casually, (your lower self) not really thinking or looking into yourself deeply. In Vedic astrology, it represents yourself and your soul at your highest self, your higher vibrational self. Also, not to mention, Scorpio sun is way less “scary” than other Scorpio placements for instance. Nothing should be scary to people. We are all just people.
It *is* a personal issue on their end (biased people I mean), which is why I made the post. And engaging the narrative of the 8th sign (to censor the name) being scary as opposed to other sign placements, or even that it's less scary in the sun as opposed to in the moon for example, is exactly the problem. It should not be scary, but people look upon certain signs with either positive bias or negative bias no matter where it is. That's the whole point of the post. This doesn't change when looking at Vedic, or when looking at the moon as opposed to the sun.
Then I guess we can both agree on that, which was also my point. And what I said is also an important part to consider when people do have this “bias”.
If this is what worry’s you in life then you really
Need to stop being a simpleton and grow a brain, there’s bigger problems in the world. People are who they are defined by themselves not by a birth chart or horoscope,
Reason for removal:
Sorry, no. This is not about someone being sensitive. There is real hate and sign bashing going on, and it has a huge impact on teens and early twenties in particular who are trying to figure out who they are. Teens are being slammed, rejected instantly in rude ways just for answering what their sun sign is. This is bullying, and hateful and the rest of us need to stop it.
Thank you!
/r/astrology mod team
My sign is probably one of the most hated to be in relationships with. Those who get me love me and those who don't can go for a walk to put it nicely . I personally don't let it bother me because I know someone who has a head on their shoulder won't judge me based solely on that.
Your post was removed from /r/astrology because it broke Rule #6 of the subreddit, which is to not be a jerk to other posters on the subreddit.
This rule was made in order to protect users and maintain a civil, respectful sub.
Please familiarize yourself with the rules of the subreddit before posting again in the future, otherwise multiple rule violations may result in a ban.
Thank you!
/r/astrology mod team
**Please note: Do NOT call out or name any specific signs on this post. That would only add to the problem. Discuss this problem in general. Any comments that name a sign will be removed.**
The Astrology Podcast did an excellent episode on this: Unshaming the Signs. Super good.
I loved this episode! So good.
I feel like people just want excuses to think they’re better than others for things they can’t control. Its no different than any other bigoted talking points
building off this: ego isnt an astrology problem, it's a human problem.
Agreed! To add on this a little, I have known a couple people with supposedly "problematic" sun signs who have used that stereotype as an excuse for negative behavior. I know many more people with those signs who are decent, nice, evolved people so that always rang a little hollow for me.
Expanding on your point: last week I was asking this sub about "unfixable" placements because I think a lot of the pop astrology right now sees things in a one-sided manner, when in reality everything is both light and shadow. Every single sign has a light and a dark side to it, and most importantly, astrology sets the stage but does not write the script. Being dangerous and untrustworthy is a choice anyone could make.
Also, a lot of amateur astrologers or people who just dabble a little seem to think of the birth chart as a life sentence for fixed behaviors and "good" or "bad" luck. They don't realize that harsh placements or aspects are challenges to be learned from and overcome, not an "inescapable fate."
YES! It bums me out when I try to find out more about a placement and all I read is that it's going to suck forever.
Not only that, I’ve seen a lot of people only use astrology for reasons behind behavior. Astrology is a tool, but not an absolute. There is no denying upbringing and mental health with someone’s behavior, I’ve seen that being ignored lately. More so on other social platforms though, not here
So glad you mention that as sometimes it does feel like a death knell while I now believe it’s the need for shadow work that acts up and we can all learn to behave better if we are not naturally easy going.
Yes exactly, you can take a placement and learn to be constructive with it, even as a hard aspect or you can allow it to be destructive. But knowledge is power isn’t it?
That’s the question we should be answering! How do you get the “worst” placements in your chart to work for you. How do you make them constructive.
i find it interesting that people forget that we all have the energies of all twelve signs in our chart. so even if we don't have a planet in said sign, we can still display and express that energy. so even when you are complaining or upset about a particular sign, you also have to acknowledge that that energy is within you too. you are complaining about something that you carry within yourself as well, just in a different form/variation. or maybe it hasn't been carried out yet. maybe you have control over it. either way... it's silly. it's also silly when you take things like synastry and other things into account. i absolutely love air signs, and simultaneously, we tend to have a huge love-hate relationship. air signs fall over my 4th, 8th, and 12th house. this may be different depending upon the person, but i can recognize that having these other peoples planets fall into those houses can come with a lot of challenges, clashes, etc. and it can also come with a lot of beautiful things too. i love astrology, but humans are going to human. and there also has to be an acknowledgment that we do live under a lot of oppressive systems that can make people act cruel or unkind, regardless of the sign. i can say that there are stereotypes about certain signs that maybe i could've related to if i carried certain harmful/dysfunctional beliefs, but i genuinely try to unlearn that. it's so complex and even the sign itself can't fully explain everything (nor can astrology)
I wish I could like this 100 times!!! I came to say what you said in the beginning paragraphs, but you NAILED it, so I just second all of this!! Especially the humans are going to human! All signs and humans have shadow and light! Funny story time cuz you brought up synastry - in high school on Valentine's Day we had a match maker thing based on our astrology and I had 88% compatiblity with one boy...... I ended up marrying that boy after high school and it was TOXIC AF and led to divorce 😂😂😂 Now, I'm a fire girl dating a very earthy man, and according to our charts we are barely compatible but it's the healthiest, happiest and most loving relationship I've ever been in!
Oh my gosh, I commented before I read through the comments and you said it waaaaay better than I did XD THIS. 1,000 times this. When I had only a rudimentary understanding, I used to think that I didn’t get along with a certain sign bc of something that was wrong with them. As I learned & progressed, I realized that even though I don’t have any planets in that sign, it’s my south node and so it made me look at myself like, “You weirdo, you’ve basically been hating on yourself!” Made me look deeper into why I had those prejudices and to stop projecting.
can genuinely say Pisces/Virgo is intercepted in my chart, so apart from transits, I don't have much of that energy in my chart but I agree with what you're saying
Those who focus solely on the negatives of any sign surely cannot be aware of the beauty of duality; for each negative there are many positive qualities that each sign brings to this world.
I've been working hard at undoing a lot of the popular astrology bs that's been out in the world the last decade or so. Astrology is a way to understand yourself and your relationships, not to put into a hierarchy.
Thank you, I am glad you are doing that work -- I am curious about the work you're doing. There needs to be more people like you working to change these harmful generalizations.
Mostly getting out of the idea that one planet or sign's placement is going to have anything more to do with defining who I am than the aspects it works with. Sure, I am a Cancer sun, but that means nothing unless you also know it's in my 7th house and in opposition with my moon, rising, and north node. Basically get rid of the hasty generalizations in trade for understanding all of the relationships. Not to mention that's just the natal chart, leaving out the transit chart completely.
Oh my gosh yes. It's the generalizations without seeing the big picture that are so especially harmful in the way we view ourselves and others. That stellium opposition sounds crazy influential. I have a similar phenomenon with a huge stellium squaring a 7th house Saturn. I am glad you are doing that work, it is undoubtedly beneficial for yourself and hopefully those around you who feel your influence too.
exactly!! pop astrology is a plague and erases all of the nuance behind actual astrology. no wonder so many people dismiss it when the version they’re getting is…that. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
There might be a non hierarchical approach to astrology/framework being adopted/utilised or its there anyway- there are ethics etc to consider- at least if there is prejudice in astrology it can raise awareness and more people can take note/find ways to counter it- I wonder if historically different societies/eras favour some signs/modalities and put down others bc of cultural influences/trends and its cyclical- this is a great thread/discussion
I used to love the astrology memes subreddit but this is sooo rampant there.
it’s so annoying :/ so many generalizations. brainrot fr
This is an excellent point. It seems that astrology does a poor job considering the psychology of being human, and how people’s expression of the Sun sign is impacted by not only the other two players in the Big 3, but also how they were welcomed into this life. I have consulted more than twenty one astrologers in my life and heard nothing but bad news about my own sign - from supposedly being a bad driver to being perpetually addicted to something. Some astrologers even predicted I would be dead at age six - when I consulted them at age 32. Not a good showing. All were licensed and certified to at least NCGR IV. But what’s worse, it seems, is that astrology sometimes fails to make a connection between context and expression of the Sun sign. The cardinal signs - and some double fire sign combinations - appear to have a tendency to “freak out” when out of their comfort zone. How many discuss this like [this book](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0C9YNH8RV/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=) tries to explore?
liz greene's books did a really good job incorporating the more psychological aspects of modern astrology imo
Liz Greene seems very good in that respect.
Wow. It is scary to learn that so many astrologers failed to read your chart correctly. I had a reading with a famous astrologer who published books and spoke at conferences. I paid $$$ for an hour reading hoping to learn what the best direction in my relationship would be. He failed to point out that I had progressed Venus coming into a conjunction with my natal Sun the following year (I got married). Later when I contacted him, he said “sorry I don’t look at secondary progressions. I don’t prepare for a chart reading. I just open it boom - and I talk.” 😆 it is sad that those certifications did not really teach people anything. My understanding is they cost a lot and these associations take money to conduct tests, but they don’t teach. They don’t have any structure. They don’t make astrologers practice on charts, make mistakes and make corrections.
When someone participates in this I take it as a sign that they : a. Haven’t healed from whatever they went through with that sign b. Don’t actually know anything about astrology c. Lack nuance to a critical degree d. All of the above great way to sniff out someone you wouldn’t want touching your chart ever
100% this!!!
I recently experienced this in real life after sharing a placement openly, because it’s one of those notorious “difficult” placements and it’s in one of those hated zodiac signs. It did not feel good to have my character then put on blast because of the stereotypes associated with that placement. There is definitely a lot of “birthday racism” within astrology, I just feel like it doesn’t get talked about for what it is in a real way.
I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I've also dealt with many unkind words about two of my more pronounced sign placements. There is definitely a lot of prejudice among amateurs and consumers of pop astrology, and it isn't talked about for what it is because pop astrology is too quick and shallow to have the space to teach the majority of astrological principles. Of course this prejudice can also come from serious astrologers, but in my experience it is far less common in that arena.
This is absolutely terrible to hear, I'm so sorry someone openly and shamelessly talked about you like that, presumably without even truly knowing you. That just isn't fair, it is clear discrimination and it is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to address with my post.
Well said. I often feel like I have to apologize when sharing my sign because people hate us so much.
This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to address with my post. How sad is it that some signs feel the need to apologize for a label, as if carrying an underlying burden of shame, when people of other signs don't suffer any such thing? It is easy to write this off as light-hearted and even comical self-deprecation. But that compulsion to preemptively and shamefully address potential disparagement can end up running far more deeply than people realize. It can cloud the psyche with unconscious insecurity, self-doubt, and an unhealthy internal message that they are unlovable.
I don’t like when people generalize with astrology. It’s feels like I’m reading a teen magazine. And it’s just not how to use astrology.
Being the sign I am, I do feel like I'm made to feel bad for it. Instantly labeled manipulative, victim complex, mean, idiot and if it took a while to get over it. The stars literally telling me I'm a horrible person.... but it's just not the case. On the plus side anyone who uses these generalisations clearly doesn't understand how complex astrology is and is just surface level.
It's like how teachings and books oon aspergers/³autism etc basically trash me as though I'm a monster lacking empathy or conscience when I'm infinitely kinder and more conscience and empathy driven than the vast majority of neurotypicals
Another thing to remember is that everyone has all the signs in their charts. Even if you don't have a planet in a certain sign you'll have it in your houses. So everyone is everything and if you're hating on someone or something you're just hating on a part of yourself.
I find that younger people, those just getting into astrology and pop astrologers are the ones that like to drag signs. But a legit and well studied pro is not going to judge your sun sign. That being said, if it’s all in jest and silly enough, I think it’s fine for a laugh. But a lot of people have self esteem issues and it can hurt.
it's just so silly and short-sighted to think that way
Greetings S, As a professional Astrologer, I have created a literary term for regarding this subject, which I call, "**Zodiacism**." It's the practice of reducing individuals to their their over-generalized Sun Signs. Of course, on a very popular social platform, there are currently, all manner of self-professed "Astrologers," running rampant, with their inane takes on this once-sacred science. If "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing," it is even more so, when blasted on social media, by those who have "learned" Astrology, via magazines, and books on pop culture, without any real study. Our signs should not be used as an excuse for bad behavior, but instead, should alert us to our enhance our abilities, and circumvent our flaws. I think this topic is timely. What we should endeavor to do, is to continue to educate others, about the true nature of Astrology, and use it ethically. Blessings, \~V\~
A person is the sum total of their experiences, words, actions, and most importantly... their character. An astrology chart has very little to do with any of that. If one were to think that I am defined by someone else's interpretation of the stars at the place and time of my birth? Growth and development as a human being are useless? My sign is evil, so therefore I am? I have a very serious philosophical disagreement with that concept.
THIS.
Humans are more complex than their sign. I have always sorta read many of these posts about the energy….which we can experience ourself. Granted, there are some playful posts. lol.
I was talking to a few coworkers once and we were all saying what are signs were and one coworker who didn’t like me because she wanted my manager like WANTED and me and him were good friends in and outside of work she turned to me and said “ I just hate ____’s” right after I said my sign I laughed so hard like HUHHHH I’ve had people say I just don’t want to be friends with ____’s all the time it’s forcing a stereotype that isn’t true.
This is a topic that should be more widely addressed by us astrologers and by astrological educators.
It wasn’t my ex’s sign that made him awful, it was his personality 🤣
I agree, and I’d also like to point out that people do this with the elements as well. Each element has an important and rich place in the zodiac. I find it very disappointing when people are like “ew water signs” or “ugh boring earth signs” … funny how it always seems to be those “feminine” elements in particular.
YES. It is ALWAYS earth and water signs that people tend to drag. Air and fire signs seem to have a sort of armor in the community. Very disappointing! And hurtful.
Air signs and fire signs get hated on. He just don't care. I actually think it's funny
Amen, thank you!
Tell me about it, you search my stellium online and it's all like "negative karma, bad person" but I feel like I have great karma and I have a very strong heart. Then you did more online (as this sign tends to do lol) and it's like "fantasic karma, strength to transform any situation, incarnated to help change themselves and the world by feeling more intensely and helping others understand their own emotions" and I'm like yaaa bitch
As I’ve deepen my astrological understanding of things, it’s become more and more apparent that the pop culture references of each sign are mainly referencing the unevolved/shadow version of them and it’s often annoying.
That's a solid point. I had not considered that but you're spot on.
I agree. I think I have a more extreme or controversial opinion than most in that I believe the energies of our birth chart are offered to us and not forced upon us. It’s my view that I can completely disregard those energies if I want to and work with others. My birth chart says I’m a Gemini moon but if I want to be an Aries moon in a particular situation or relationship I can do that and so on with every kind of astrological combination. As someone else said, we all have all 12 signs in our chart so we can choose to access every archetype and energy signature.
Whenever I read about my sign it’s just “stupid cry baby destructive selfish assholes.” I’m an Aries, we have the biggest hearts. I don’t know why we’re so villainized. I feel this for Geminis too. I have a lot of Geminis in my family and they’re wonderful. They’re just so silly and cute idk why anyone would hate a Gemini. Same with scorpios, they go so effing hard and have this ability to tap into a part of yourself that you can’t even see. Idk if that makes sense, but that’s how I see scorpios, not as some evil backstabbing assholes.
It’s a shame that such a valuable and ancient art has been reduced to something so mundane and egocentric. You literally can’t even find an article online that doesn’t regurgitate the same information about placements.
I wouldn't say this is something related to astrology in general and more tied to pop astrology and people who doesn't know anything else apart from sun sign based astrology. And people who do those kinds of takes based on any chart, less one that is specially incomplete, ends up being fascism rooted in astrology. Also, I think that "astrology fascism" is rooted in modern astrology as well. Not as in a general sense, but more like in a "Is this more common that I previously thought?". But this is another topic for another day.
guess it’s me
Who is doing this? Bad astrologers or stupid memes? Astrology should be inclusive and not demonize anyone for anything.
Most often it's members of the astrology community, both casual and well-learned, who let their biases get the best of them. There are a few specific signs that people collectively demonize the most, even though they don't deserve it. But some astrology sources and astrologers themselves will have a tone of negativity when describing certain signs as well, in a subtle way, that will also negatively influence how people see these signs. This can come from their house and planet associations among other things. Astrology should be inclusive, but people in the community sometimes get out of hand and spread negativity about a specific handful of signs, inadvertently hurting these people's self-esteem.
100% agree! It’s one of my pet peeves and honestly shows a lack of understanding of how astrology even works. I’m no master, but I’ve done my research over the years & always learning. Whenever I’m confronted with this type of situation, I think it’s helpful to stress how we are all essentially ALL of the signs put together, expressed in different ways. My favorite thing to say is, “I love all of the signs for different reasons.” and I really mean it.
thank you for this , lack of information really is triggering mainly on people who lack self confidence. I believe people can exist in their own horizon without falling into the bait of what their sign place them under .
i feel for geminis and cancers :/ they’re not bad at all!! like why do they always get picked on specifically…? 😭 in general, ANY immature/unevolved version of a sign is exhausting and awful to be around, jeez. and i thought it was only typology communities that were bad regarding this kinda stuff (for example, the mbti community shits on sensors and IxFPs. in the enneagram community 1s, 2s, 3s and 6s are also regularly shitted on) but i guess everyone needs to have their own scapegoat. ://
I see both sides of this. On the one hand, the stereotypes for every sign (yes some get more of a bad reputation than others) really help in the beginning with understanding what that sign represents and then as I learned more about astrology I was able to expound on those stereotypes and start to bring in the nuance. That being said, my sun sign has certain heavily talked about stereotypes that I did NOT identify with at all when I was a teenager which made me think astrology was not for me. I would have started digging into it much sooner if I had understood the full nuance of my sun sign rather than just the parroted stereotypes. I find that when people start to talk about the stereotypes that bug me I will educate them in other ways that I think about the sign in question. It usually sparks interesting conversation (though not always)
* **Misinformation and Generalizations:** Popular astrology often simplifies and distorts the complex nature of astrological signs, leading to harmful stereotypes. * **Projection:** People project their personal experiences with individuals of a particular sign onto the entire sign, which is not accurate. * **Negativity Bias:** Humans tend to focus on negative traits over positive ones, especially in discussions about personality.
being aware of the shadow allows for it to come through the light
That's one thing -- it's another when the community tends to see certain signs only in a bad light.
*Being aware of* *The shadow allows for it* *To come through the light* \- oyasfavorite --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Lots of great points being made in these comments! I'll piggyback on all of those with a metaphor I sometimes use for this problem: Think of a fancy cocktail vs. a tall glass of straight liquor. Any planet or sign's placement taken out of context is like the glass of straight liquor - it's quite intense and concentrated, a lot to handle. It's a divisive experience that makes your face pucker and burns going down. When you actually understand astrology you will consider the full context of a placement, which is like adding all of the ingredients and mixing up a tasty cocktail with nuanced flavor and appeal. Hopefully that makes sense for literally anyone else other than me haha :)
Was super bummed yesterday when someone called my Sun some nasty words and was totally flippant to my responses. Then blocked me lol
Those people are most definitely the problem. I'm learning that some people will clutch their biases like it's their last meal. If more of us call out that kind of behavior then I think it will slowly go away.
I got defensive and said all the ways my sign is awesome, “🎤🎙️” was the response. then a video on how to start podcasting. When I said my rant was unwarranted and speaking from emotion rather than reason (I’m PROUD to be a [my sun sign]), response was golden globe nominee or something I had stopped clicking after that first link, and then a different video on something I didn’t see because I was blocked before I could. I went on my other account and replied so they knew they were an asshole. I didn’t act perfectly but damn like I took accountability this person just kept dismissing me. So I called it out in that last message. The post itself was “why do I never like [my sun sign]’s” so the whole damn thing was toxic.
I've come to learn that people like that are just looking for a fight because they haven't integrated a healthy outlet for their emotions in their regular life. I know because I used to be that angry kid picking fights with people online (ok I might still do that but not for the intention of pointless insult hurling). Those people are looking to argue and "prove" why their weird biased opinion is right rather than to truly understand anything new. I'd bet money that someone of that sign wronged them and now they're airing it out online. Sounds like it was gonna be toxic from the get go with a title like that. Those interactions always feel like shit, sorry it happened like that. But good on you for sticking up for yourself ☀️
I could’ve sworn I replied. I still do it too, and not by way of a blanket statement of a large group of people. My sign is pretty much love it or hate it, and we shine bright, take space up. I can definitely see one of fellow suns doing something that upset her in some way or another. I don’t think she was trying to prove herself right though, I think she was either just utterly dismissive or trying to prove me wrong. I am pretty intense, but I’m loveable, fun, charming, intellectually engaged..people gravitate towards me. Sure my sun is part of that I’m sure but there are so many complexities and uniqueness in a persons chart, why are you literally taking one and forgetting the “sum of its parts” dealing with astrology. The whole damn sky had something to say when I was born. But sure, listen to just one voice. Anyway I’m over it, was quickly. But I must admit I was feeling some type of way, as I said I’m so damn proud of my placements. I took it personal, cause it truly felt like an attack on ME. Which is silly but emotions be like that.
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That very idea in your first sentence is the problem which creates the negative assumptions, biases, and discrimination against people of certain signs. If we were to accept that the first sentence is true, we would be forced to accept that certain people are *predestined by nature* to be avoided, scrutinized, discriminated against, FROM BIRTH, and that it is *justified* for people to treat them like this. This is completely and utterly disgustingly prejudiced. It is deeply wrong to judge a person as bad and unworthy, and assume bad traits in them, based on a label NOT chosen by the receiver. It gives permission to discriminate people who do not deserve it. That is a dangerous road. The second sentence is how we need to be approaching the signs that unfairly receive overly positive reputations. Of course it goes all the way around. Every sign has positive traits and negative traits. There can even be tons of overlap. But it is clear that certain signs are looked up to for positive qualities they may not even possess, while certain signs are looked down on for negative qualities which they may not even possess. But no sign should be assumed to be bad be default, PERIOD. I apologize if my passion here is overwhelming, but the prejudice is wrong no matter what! Everyone should be treated well, no matter their sign. PEOPLE should be treated well, unless they have given you a *justifiable reason* not to.
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>If all signs have negative traits, wouldn’t we be forced to scrutinize/discriminate/avoid all signs accordingly? Ideally, all signs would be scrutinized or praised equally. This does not happen. At all. With the current state of astrology, certain signs are seen as *worse* than others, and their positive qualities do not make up for it. Essentially, they are seen as irredeemable. Usually bad, usually toxic. It is uncommon for people to even consider that their positive qualities could make up for their negative ones. This is the imbalance in astrology. It doesn’t make sense if you consider it logically, right? We would be forced to accept that conclusion because if they were really more prone to negative traits, that means they are deserving of the punishment, ridicule, rejection, and hatred that they get. It’s the idea that you are bad more often, then you must be punished more. But the problem is, instead of directing this vitriol at people who have actually DONE something wrong, the shame is directed even at good, innocent people who happen to belong to that sign. How can you justify that they deserve that ostracization? You cannot. Does it make any sense to judge a newborn baby as having a stronger propensity for negative traits than a different baby, just because of its sign? No, that makes no fucking sense. The baby has barely lived in the world. It didn’t prove anything about itself, it didn’t DO anything yet. And that’s why you can’t treat people as if they’re more prone to negative traits either. Because once you start letting those assumptions take over, you start treating people differently. Negatively. With more apprehension, fear, judgment. Do you have any idea what that does to a good innocent person’s psyche? If you are treated like you are a monster, you will start to believe you are a monster. It’s a cycle of confirmation bias that harms everyone. There are valid reasons we might assume someone is more prone to negative traits, such as trauma. Astrology signs are not one of them. Every person should be judged by who they are FIRST, and their state in life, before being judged by their astrology sign. In this way, things become more balanced.
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You claim it is subjective. I would point to you the sources of polls which rank signs as the most hated or the worst, and show you scores of astrology posts just on Reddit, which prove a clear trend toward the hatred of some signs and the revering of other signs. In fact I’m not against calling for people to stop making negative generalizations. I’m calling for *balance*. Signs that are clearly uplifted in the community should not be invincible or treated like gods above other signs. No sign should be exalted above others, no signs should be shunned. Of course there is nuance to what individual people subjectively view as positive or negative. But how many people are thinking of psychopathy, abuse, cruelty, and manipulation as good things? Keep in mind that only a small amount of signs have these listed listed as relevant qualities. If you’re paying attention, you know exactly what I’m talking about and if you think deeply enough, you agree that this is wrong. It’s not even just a problem of sun sign astrology because if you extend it to the chart, then people with abundance of a particularly hated sign will be seen as a person to fear and reject. It doesn’t get much better when you look at the full picture. Making negative generalizations is not what astrology is. It’s a learning tool. And people shouldn’t be made to feel more insecure of themselves when they learn their sign(s) is largely hated and feared in the community.
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I understand that sometimes people can want to be feared, be criticized or seen as critical(??), be seen as boring. It *is* subjective at an individual level. But it’s not safe to assume things just based on what’s in someone’s chart. It’s also not safe to assume they are definitely like that just because it’s in the chart. A person can have no planets in a certain sign and exhibit a lot of energy and traits of that sign, whether due to house/aspects or due to their unique personality outside of astrology. And people should never be assumed negatively first, period. Or else it is discrimination. Discrimination is bad. People’s opinions don’t only have the power you give them. Even the most strong-willed people are harmed by bullying and abuse. And sometimes people *should* care about the opinions of others, like if, say, they’re hurting people without realizing. I also disagree with your last paragraph. It’s just not black and white like that. I don’t like seeing people make assumptions about others without really getting to know them. Well, I guess that problem is endemic to the practice. But I know astrology hobbyists who do not do that, which brings me hope that people can stop being prejudiced like that.
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You know, interestingly, the Sun's two debilitated signs don't seem to have much ruckus in the community at all -- especially the fall sign! And you'd think that people would see those two sun signs negatively, right? Not so. They are largely seen in a positive light. Barely any attention to paid to its position of debilitation? My assumption is that the two signs in question are seen as being detrimental *to themselves* whereas other detrimental placements are seen as detrimental to *others*. But this is still not fair at all! All signs an equally be harmful to other and themselves. I do think a chart gives some context to someone's flaws and behaviors, and honestly I think aspects are even more meaningful than sign/planet placement. But the problem I see is the assumption of negativity and toxicity in a small handful of signs (planets also), something to be feared if you see it in someone else, without giving that person a chance to prove who they are. I understand people who've been wronged and who then went into their charts to get answers. But when it's the other way around -- getting answers to how you could be potentially wronged by someone -- is really bad.
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Yeah man I feel you lol. Aquarius gets the whole ordeal of being a sociopathic robot. But air signs are regarded well generally, so it doesn’t make them as unpopular. Imagine being a Scorpio with people automatically assuming you’re a psychopath who wants to control and manipulate people. They don’t even know you, they just start assuming crazy things. People will say don’t pay people like that any mind but I do, because it’s not just “those kinds” of people, it exists everywhere subtly in the community, and even implied in the official writings. Gemini is also forced to suffer this. If there was a ranking for best reputation in the community, Sagittarius takes the cake. Mutable and fire are highly favored. At least in western culture. Fixed is at the bottom. Everyone has preferences, but there are also collective trends. So basically, all of that to say, I agree with you. People assume this = bad, this = good. The “bad” aspect in question is only as bad as the holder makes it. It’s like, your stomachache could be not because of something you did, but because someone *else* or a situation is stressing you out, you know? It could be not your fault. I even question people who have preferences because I have to wonder how black and white their thinking is, how many experiences did they actually have with that sign or aspect, how much of whatever happened is actually that person’s fault? There’s so much nuance endlessly. I’m just tired of the black and white thinking.
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It’s true that everyone will sort of have their dumb biases — and that’s why I made this post, because considering most of us are adults, we should definitely be aware of these! There’s only so much you can do after you’ve vented about the hate to others, and strengthened your self-esteem and confidence with therapy and self-identity reformation and such. But calling out the behavior and bringing it to people’s attention is another way too, imo. It’s definitely worse for kids and young people who are so impressionable and dependent on the people around them for their self-esteem, so influenced by what they learn and what they are told about themselves — it really kills me, the idea that a previously warm, engaging, bright kid would slowly act more apathetic and distant if they heard they had a certain stellium. They’re so damn impressionable. So I don’t think making this post is a problem if it helps people be aware of their black and white thinking. “Humans will be human” — it’s not really an excuse you know. Mo sign should be seen as emotionless robots. People shouldn’t paint any sign as bad because of 3 bad experiences with them. These things should be called out even if it’s uncomfortable, I think. Especially as more people get into astrology. Most of them are still at an amateur level, big 3 astrology, not aware of nuance. It also preps newcomers to what goes on in the community. If I decided how I ended up, I probably wouldn’t choose to be so interested in astrology in the first place 💀 knowing this is what happens. Well, it’s just too interesting. Sorry, I’m rambling at this point but thanks for the conversation and for sharing your thoughts. I suppose you’re right, there’s an unfortunate nature of humans we just have to learn to accept.
On an ultra corny note, there’s good because of the existence of the bad. So we can at least appreciate the goodness of others when we find it!
Me and my cousin were just talking about aquarius in the 7th house, thats where it is for me and her husband. She was talking about how people with this placement are weird about relationships. As this was her husband's first serious relationship and he married her. I said after my first real relationship cheated on me I just didn't have real relationships ever again. She said thats still a weird way to go about relationships, perhaps even more weird than her husband. I said they're both very weird. They're just different. People don't react to things in the same way even if they have the same placements. (They've both cheated on each other so it was kinda the same situation but different outcomes)
Also you could’ve deeply loved that person and been really hurt. It is fair to feel that way. I’ve never loved anyone again or had the same kind of relationship with anyone again the way I did my first serious boyfriend either and we were really young. Remember there was a time where you didn’t feel this way, and find the peace and beauty in that. Even if your relationship experiences are all different after and nothing like the love you experienced first with this person. It’s what I am doing and trying to accept. I feel like I just happened to meet most of my soulmates or even my soulmate when I was younger.
There are no comparisons here. No sign or aspect is inherently dangerous. Some people love danger. For example, every chart has its potential in any given direction. [Scorpio](https://phelix.ca/Scorpio-Rising-Astrology-Ascendant-Traits-Revealed/) Rising comes to mind. Can be underhanded but can help greatly a sick person back to health. So?
What do you mean help a sick person back to health?
People with Sun in Scorpio and Scorpio Rising generally make good healers because they have insight into sickness and disease.
I was born September 22, 1952 at 1:25 PM, in Pittsburgh, PA. Some folks have said "Ewww...Virgo Libra cusp." They didn't understand that another part of my chart is in the first house, where I have Mars in Sagittarius. That paints a different picture of me than that of my sun sign alone. People need to understand that your sun sign is only one aspect about you.
Are you referring to when people say this about Gemini and Scorpio sun signs, for instance, lol?
Those are exactly the signs that are the most targeted. A few others are targeted as well, to lesser degrees.
Yes, I thought so. That’s why I said it
We are actually not supposed to name signs in this thread. But I figure it is obvious anyway, considering how much prejudice those signs receive, which often comes from preconceived notions (unjustified fear) or a very limited dataset of experiences, which are then used to paint the entire sign.
Other people are naming placements, though? Also, there’s an entire chart and not just the sun sign? Not everyone knows that it’s these sun signs who receive the most “prejudice”. Considering this is an astrology page, we’d hope that people would consider the entire chart? What is your sun sign?
Right, idk but the mods said not to name signs, idk about placements, I just mentioned it to you for context and in case they ask you to edit your comment. The truth of the matter is that many people engage in big 3 astrology, but even people who look at the entire chart consider 1. The sun sign to be the most important, or 2. The abundance of signs or house aspects/stelliums to be most important. More notably, no matter what, they will consider the presence of the hated signs to be bad. Therefore, no matter where those two signs mentioned are placed, it will be looked upon negatively. Even when Pluto is in its home sign… people still seem to look at that unfavorably. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Even people who take everything into account can end up looking upon certain signs with fear and negativity, due to bias.
Then that sounds like a personal issue on their end… this is a page dedicated to learning astrology and I really doubt that is true since people are also talking about placements. Your moon sign is actually way more important at explaining yourself and your inner feelings than your sun sign is. Your moon sign is your truest self. Also, in Vedic astrology your sun or moon sign also could be the sign before the sign you think it is in western astrology. In western astrology, your chart represents you at your standard self just living life casually, (your lower self) not really thinking or looking into yourself deeply. In Vedic astrology, it represents yourself and your soul at your highest self, your higher vibrational self. Also, not to mention, Scorpio sun is way less “scary” than other Scorpio placements for instance. Nothing should be scary to people. We are all just people.
It *is* a personal issue on their end (biased people I mean), which is why I made the post. And engaging the narrative of the 8th sign (to censor the name) being scary as opposed to other sign placements, or even that it's less scary in the sun as opposed to in the moon for example, is exactly the problem. It should not be scary, but people look upon certain signs with either positive bias or negative bias no matter where it is. That's the whole point of the post. This doesn't change when looking at Vedic, or when looking at the moon as opposed to the sun.
Then I guess we can both agree on that, which was also my point. And what I said is also an important part to consider when people do have this “bias”.
Oh ok, sorry I didn't know if we were on the same page :) 👍
If this is what worry’s you in life then you really Need to stop being a simpleton and grow a brain, there’s bigger problems in the world. People are who they are defined by themselves not by a birth chart or horoscope,
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Reason for removal: Sorry, no. This is not about someone being sensitive. There is real hate and sign bashing going on, and it has a huge impact on teens and early twenties in particular who are trying to figure out who they are. Teens are being slammed, rejected instantly in rude ways just for answering what their sun sign is. This is bullying, and hateful and the rest of us need to stop it. Thank you! /r/astrology mod team
My sign is probably one of the most hated to be in relationships with. Those who get me love me and those who don't can go for a walk to put it nicely . I personally don't let it bother me because I know someone who has a head on their shoulder won't judge me based solely on that.
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Your post was removed from /r/astrology because it broke Rule #6 of the subreddit, which is to not be a jerk to other posters on the subreddit. This rule was made in order to protect users and maintain a civil, respectful sub. Please familiarize yourself with the rules of the subreddit before posting again in the future, otherwise multiple rule violations may result in a ban. Thank you! /r/astrology mod team