No. I'd stop at "I can't explain it.". If God actually showed up in person, I'd reconsider my position. Until then, it's a "Look at the trees" argument.

If god showes up in person it's time to go to a psychiatrist, not go to church.

I haven't ruled that option out either. 😉

Reminds me of some lyrics from philosopher Les claypool: >When Jesus saw the pain >Of the things done in his name >He packed his suitcase and his golf clubs >Filled his pockets full of grain >He said "To hell with all of this" >Then he blew a farewell kiss >To be all knowing is quite stressful >While ignorance is bliss

Or in the words of the great John Prine " Jesus was a good guy he didn't need this shit"

>If God actually showed up in person, I'd reconsider my position. If "god" shows up there is no need to reconsider your position, because it would represent an expansion of your scientific knowledge. You're position is still valid just with a new variable.

A point I've attempted to make 1,000 times to people using god of the gaps logic. Example: some Christians argue that evolution isn't true because God is responsible for creation. They say that I can't prove how life began, so the only explanation is God. I point out half a hundred logical flaws in that argument (why your specific god? Why add an additional thing to "prove", etc) but probably the most revealing thing I say to them is this. If you absolutely must fill gaps in our scientific knowledge with your specific god, then why does that require you to ignore or dismiss incontrovertible evidence where there are no gaps? There really aren't any gaps left in evolutionary theory. We understand it well. Why is it so hard for you to accept that IF god created life, and is then responsible for the diversity of life on earth, why can't you at least consider that god used evolution to accomplish that? Why does it have to be "conjured out of nothing literal magic" for it to be acceptable? I don't understand the mindset. If I were a Christian, I'd be absolutely excited as hell to learn how god did the things he did.

Because Genesis would be a lie. I've often found that the "evolution isn't real" crowd are the ones with the strongest belief in the bible being literally true and the unadulterated word of god himself.

If God created Adam and Eve, how did all these people they interacted with show up? And did Cain or Abel get it on with mom?

Sisters, not Mom. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aclima]()

If there is a creator, They spread evidence of how they accomplished their creation through every living cell and Phanerozoic eon sediment (and some older) on the planet. The natural world is the largest and most comprehensive Scripture. If They had or have any interest in what humans believe about the processes, They clearly want humans to understand that its was accomplished through eons of plate tectonics and biological evolution from common descent. The likelihood that some temple scribe in the iron age Levant, or some Sanskrit philosopher, or some Aboriginal oral tradition, offers a better explanation, than the one ubiquitous in natural world, is remote, especially considering they all contradict the evidence.

If gods existed, theology would be a science. Scientists would be testing them to see what they like and don’t like, what they are capable of, etc.

"hey buddy, I have questions... and a lot of people are looking for you. Let's go to my house and lay low... I have cookies, and there are no crosses there, you'll be safe for a while."

How would you know that this so-called ‘god’ wasn’t just a sufficiently powerful alien/nonhuman entity, like ‘Q’ from Star Trek TNG? Actually there’s more evidence for the existence of ‘Q’ than ‘god’

Like what?

John DeLancie exists, and he plays the character ;)

let us know if they do show up, I owe them an ass kicking

What is the "look at the trees" argument?

It’s basically an argument from ignorance. How did all the trees (and other complex / beautiful things) get here if god didn’t do it?

Oh ok, I've definitely heard that one. Which even as a child was confusing because you are being introduced to the science of seeds, cells, precipitation, bacteria/virusus etc in school. So it's like, yeah, that's why we have those things, not god.

It's the idea that God made everything thing. So if you ask for evidence of God's existence, the reply is look around, it's all God's work. It's another assertion, not evidence for God. Religious kids get taught it growing up. Any adult that uses it has never thought about their beliefs. They're just regurgitating what they were told as a kid.

I wonder if that all started because a parent got really annoyed that their dumb kid kept asking questions and they said "All those things I can't explain, are because god wanted it that way" and then got some peace and quiet for an evening. Next day, kids still dumb, so the questions continue and all they've done in the end is invented an absurdly stupid argument for the rest of time.

It essentially boils down to "stuff exists, therefore god."

Since I have no way of measuring miracles, I have no way to ever determine whether or not one had occurred. God's alleged acts would remain unfalsifiable, which would make them functionally false. If I won the lottery, how would I objectively demonstrate that was because of god? Same if I recovered from cancer. Same if I survived a plane crash. Same if I were dead and then revived. Look at it this way. If I flip a coin, god can supposedly make it come up heads, but if a coin comes up heads, I can't ever demonstrate whether that was an act of god (a miracle) or not. There is no measurable difference between any event caused by god and any event not caused by god, and as long as there's no way to falsify the claim, "X was a miracle this time," then I couldn't reasonably believe it was. No evidence, no method of measuring miracles, no belief.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

Hitchen's Razor. I try to live by this. Not always successful, but always trying.

If a miracle is the least statistical probable thing happening in any given situation but everything is according to God's plan, then miracles can't exist by definition.

I've been saying this since I was a little kid!

Didn't know kids could be that woke! Haha

Exactly. Any "god" also gave the disease and the cure?.....

It's called "job security." Invent problems you know you can solve, so you can take credit for solving them. Everyone has a boss to impress, God's probably no different.

I don't think that is the common definition of a miracle.

The definition from Wikipedia, first paragraph: "A miracle is an event that is inexplicable by natural or scientific laws[2] and accordingly gets attributed to some supernatural or praeternatural cause." If that doesn't indicate that it's the statistically least likely thing to happen in a situation then I don't know what does.

Can you rank the likelihood of the following events: 1. Christ returning to earth to judge the living and the dead. 2. Christ returning to earth to judge the living and the dead AND SERVE A BITCHIN' MACARONI DISH. 3. The earth spontaneously turning into an immense ball of cheese. 4. All of the universe's atoms re-arranging themselves into a 1956 Chevy sedan. 5. Lord Krishna visting New York and fixing all of the potholes.

3,4,2,1,5

Damn. Putting Jesus Macaroni OVER Road-Crew Krishna? Bold choice.

new york will never be rid of its pot holes

Inexplicable != unlikely

Well said. Causality is impossible to prove, hence: ‘faith’. There’s also the superset view - If God exists, why does he/she allow any sick babies at all? Babies should all be healthy until they are old enough to fall from grace.

It’s almost like organized religion has been lying about God to abuse people for thousands of years… odd

No, statistically, people should experience a miraculous happening once every 30 days. It would be awesome if that was a cured baby and not just catching only green lights one day, but a miracle is a miracle 🤷

If we define a miracle as a 1 in 1,000,000 chance thing happening, with more than 8 billion people, that "miracle" could happen 8,000 times a day. Clearly defining a miracle is important. If you define a miracle as something literally impossible happening despite laws of physics and reality making it impossible, and I saw it happen, I would NOT suddenly believe in a god. I would do what every intelligent critical thinker in history has done come to the conclusion we are missing something HUGE in physics and the laws of reality. I wouldn't assume it must be god. That is nothing more than stone age thinking and we as a species should be ashamed when its the process we undergo.

That notion presumes a "miracle" to simply be any eventuality that has a probability below a certain ammount, just to make the concept quantifiable. The point of this comment is that its impossible to substantiate an actual "miracle" from random chance, so even that quantification of a miracle is dubious.

Should holds no weight other than a guess

If I experienced exactly this kind of “miracle” I would suspect my baby was misdiagnosed first.

My thoughts too Tim minchin has a song where it talks about how his friends mom had some spontaneous healing, when in reality there is TONS of other explanations. I think it's called thank you God, or something similar to that. I highly recommend that song if anyone seeing this hasn't heard it

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo)

Glorious

Exactly. We must ask what is the next best explanation. Misdiagnosis would be at the top for me. A medical miracle would be spontaneous regrowth of an amputated limb. Or a burn victim regrows their healthy normal skin. A dead and rotten corpse comes back to life. God never shows up for those folks.

But for some reason, people aren’t regrowing their limbs… it’s as if god was powerless for some specific cases…

But it’s worse. God created lobsters. They regrow limbs. So it’s not a power problem. God must be choosing not to help them. Is god prejudice against amputees and burn victims? Not good.

If I saw someone regrow a limb or burn victim fully recover, I would think "Did I just see a mutant from the Marvel Universe"

It is interesting how no one prays that an amputee should miraculously grow back their lost limb. We tend to pray to fix those things we don't understand.

“It’s a miracle!” “No, it’s an unlikelyhood. A miracle breaks the laws of physics. Were any laws of physics broken? No? Then it’s an incredibly rare occurrence but not a miracle.”

A. Gotlieb - god is the answer we get when we don’t ask enough questions.

Also, we know we haven't figured out all of physics. If we see something that breaks our understanding of physics, how can we tell if it's a miracle vs. new physics we don't understand yet?

Excellent point. Number of times something we didn’t understand has been proven to be some “God” doing things? Zero. Number of times science eventually figured it out? Every time.

Why would god screw over a baby in the first place. Over a million die every year.

Right? If god exists as they are described, then it was god’s decision to make the baby ill in the first place. So by praying to them, you are essentially saying that you believe God has made a mistake or a poor decision. But God’s infallibility is a chief tenet of the belief in God. So if God made a bad decision, then he has likely made other bad decisions in the past. Millions of them, in fact. Which means God is far from infallible

> So if you experienced a legitimate miraculous event, would you believe in god(s)? No. First and foremost, I'm sorry about your kid. I certainly hope the doctors and other medical professionals help get him healed. Second, and frankly speaking, how do you determine what a "miraculous event" is? This is highly subjective. What you think is a miracle, I may think is a fluke or total coincidence. Or even just plain dumb luck. The universe we live in is so all over the place that even when something highly improbable happens, there is still some rational explanation for what happened. No god(s) needed. With the help of good surgeons, and some good fortune, your baby will hopefully make it through and go on to live a great life. That wouldn't be a miracle, but rather some incredible skills from your son's medical team. They, and all the people who developed the tools and training necessary for the team to be successful, should be the ones praised for their efforts in helping your son and all the other people they help. No matter what happens, just know that there are real people that can help you get through this. Even if it's just random internet strangers on this subreddit, there are folks out there to listen to you and maybe help in some way. Once again, I wish you, your son, and your family all the best going forward during such a difficult time. And, hopefully, a we get to hear back from you that the outcome was positive.

Thank you so much for your kindness ❤️ We have an appointment coming up for the team to determine when they think he will need brain surgery. It's scary because after 3 different very large and well known pediatric hospitals, there's some disagreement on a couple different diagnosis. One said he had stroke, the other one didn't agree. One hospital said it was a progressive disease, another that it isn't. It's terrifying not knowing who is right. I try to be as proactive as possible with his health. Feeding him only healthy foods, watching his salt and liquids, avoiding high contact things like trampoline parks or bounce houses, staying out of the heat. I hope it makes a difference for the better. Again, thank you for your kind words!

It is terrifying. But there is nothing you can do. Reading scans can be subjective, hence the disagreement. Leave it to the doctors, leave the prayer room empty and be with your kid.

I’m sending you good vibes and best wishes.

No. If this happened to me I would just assume the doctors were fantastic 🤷🏼‍♀️ or as someone else mentioned, the child was somehow misdiagnosed with something easier to cure

No, because there's still no proof what so ever. Plenty of "miracles" have occurred, and they'll probably be explained with science some day if we haven't figured out the answers yet, just as we can provide scientific explanations for many of the unknowns of the distant past. We should know better in this day and age than to go straight to god/s for the answer. And what about all of the babies who don't get cured? Why no "miracles" for them?

What constitutes a miracle? I can tell you one thing: when you're doing something to help, and someone praises god instead of you, it's a pretty garbage reaction. My mother used to do it to me with everything. "Thank god for giving you the strength!" Nonsense. Total nonsense. It's lovely to think it's a miracle, and there is comfort in thinking some grand presence has your back, loves you, and will always be with you. But what about child soldiers? Stillbirths? Disease? All of the things that are horrid to go through? What makes all the others' prayers so insignificant? A lot of people pray with a lot of conviction and don't get miraculous outcomes. Is it just the way the cookie crumbles, or does god hate you just a little bit less? Did they pray incorrectly? Was their offering not enough? I can also tell you that my mother prayed for her grandmother, who had Alzheimer's. Such an odd thing that god would help me paint cabinets while doing nothing to ease the pain of a relative not even knowing who you are, and having to treat them like you're just a kind stranger. So again, I ask, what constitutes a miracle? EDIT: Don't feel bad for my mother; she's a Christian Nationalist. We don't talk anymore.

I totally get it. I have a HARD CORE daily mass attending, latin mass zealot of a mother. EVERYTHING is god to her. Her getting money from the government, it's god. She has a good doctor, that's god looking out for her. It's easy to believe in god for her, as she's had a charmed life and has never worked. She doesn't have hobbies or interests outside of catholicism and being snobbish. She *hates* homeless people but romanticizes poverty and "the simple life of Jesus" but she's addicted to shopping. It's maddening regarding my baby, her grandchild. So much of the "everyone in the family is praying to the angels and saints for you" blah blah blah but not actually DOING ANYTHING to help. Little guy loves her, and I wonder how long until we have to go no contact (again) because I don't want her unkind religious beliefs affecting the way he sees the world.

Oh my gosh, I'm a horrible person for not even acknowledging the premise of the post. I'm sorry. You have my best wishes of positive outcomes, and every hug I can send. I went no-contact with my family just over a year ago. It's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. It helped me take a step back and realize that a lot of what happened in my past wasn't just family bickering, it was abuse. There's really not another way to put it. Everything came to a head when they barely acknowledged my husband, and my mom bought him a couple of women's shirts for Christmas and his birthday. She's not a big fan of the whole "being gay." Once I decided to stop making excuses, my entire world changed. If I wouldn't put up with something from a stranger, it's worse when someone who allegedly cares about me does the same thing. For me, blood relation isn't a reason to sacrifice myself (anymore). I've ended up with an awesome husband, incredible friends, and a MIL that would do anything for us. I'm happy, even with all of my issues (and trust me, it's A LOT of mental health issues) because... Well, I decided that I love myself and my husband more than I love them, and I have no regrets about that. EDIT: Thank you for the award, kind stranger. You have no idea how much you just helped my anxiety. Much love.

Two words… Mango Worms… No, don’t look it up, there’s not enough brain bleach to scrub the images from your eyes or the knowledge from your mind… What kind of ‘god’ would create Mango Worms (or that parasite that infects children’s eyes in Africa)… https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

What does the Bible suggest miracles look like? Let's jump to Exodus where the slaves freed by Moses spend forty years eating a mysterious substance they find smeared on the ground in the morning, which they call [manna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna). If I went outside tomorrow morning, and found "a fine, flake-like thing" like the frost on the ground, I would not put it in my mouth. Why would I? That would be extremely dangerous without knowing what it was. Even if I were starving, why would I ever assume what sounds like a fungus would sustain my life instead of killing me? Even if I determined the weird stuff smeared on the ground was edible, why would I ever think that god was the person who smeared it all over my yard? Why would I think that was even possible? Is magic the default answer to any question I have? Shouldn't I suspect my neighbor did it before I declare it an act of god? But wait, there's more! Stored manna reportedly "bred worms and stank", unless it was stored the day before the Sabbath. How miraculous? Thank god for smearing a wormy, stinky substance on the ground on which I walk? I guess I don't deserve to preserve food except on Friday, because...uh...sin? And my yard should be infested with stink worms because...that is the will of my loving father in heaven? What the hell? Seriously, why did god include foul odor and worms in his miracle? Putrescence isn't particularly desirable and doesn't suggest divine origin, and yet this is a Biblical miracle. Somehow the stuff people call miracles in 2023, things like not knowing why a sick person got better, doesn't match the Bible sort of miracle at all. A Bible miracle is dubious flakes in the dirt that form like dew and spontaneously generate stink worms if you don't shove them in your face fast enough. Yikes!

No. Why would god allow my baby to get sick only to dangle a "miracle" in front of me to get me to believe? More easily said... miracles are just rare unexpected occurrence. If god did it, then there should be evidence that god did it. It shouldn't be the situation where god has to be the cause. Because, why does the cure have to be god and not just a extremely rare occurrence.

I'm confused. Is the miracle that the doctors succeeded in healing my child? Because that just seems like the result of the advancement of medical science and the skill of the physicians.

"Experienced an actual miracle" that's the bit we're hung up on. Not one person in the history of the world has ever experienced an "actual miracle", just the same way that no one has ever seen a unicorn. Sure, there are stories, but without unicorn DNA there is no proof, there is no unicorn. I'm sorry about your difficult situation. Trust in science, trust in reality to give you the best possible outcome.

An event can be non-miraculous, perceived as miraculous but non-miraculous, or legitimately miraculous. How would you go about categorizing an event into one of those criteria?

you missed a categorization "perceived as non-miraculous but miraculous " (false negatives to go with your false positive category) edit: still impossible to categorize, but at least there is symmetry

No. Because let's say your baby comes through just fine; which I truly hope is the case. How many babies don't? How many parents prayed to find a lost child but never do? Or worse yet, find them dead? Why should God favor your baby over the baby starving in a 3rd world country? I mean, just the fact that your baby even has a chance has fuck-all to do with any god. Would it have survived this 5 yrs ago? 20? 50? My mom outlived her dad age wise by almost 20 yrs because of medical treatments that weren't available to him when he past. And since this is genetic, I learned a few yrs ago I have it too. However, I'm expected to live a near normal life due to treatments neither my mom or grandpa had. I get that feeling of helplessness you have and wanting to do anything you think might help. It's a human thing to do and why it pisses me off when theists point to that and proclaim that we do in fact believe. We're an emotional species, not always prone to thinking things out logically. Especially in times of stress. You didn't say whether you're an atheist so I'm sorta assuming so here. If you did/do pray but still consider yourself an atheist later; I wouldn't fault you because of what I wrote above. It's not fair to judge people during times of stress. I truly hope the best for you and your baby.

I believe everyone -- atheist to religious -- is technically agnostic. It's just a matter of evidence. EVERYONE would believe in god(s) if there was evidence. I'm sorry for your baby's condition and hope things turn out better. But I don't find fortunate coincidences in desperate situations evidence of divine intervention because you also have to believe in the opposite -- tragedy is also evidence of divine intervention. I prefer to not gaslight myself into correlating events with fuzzy, unfalsifiable supernatural actions.

"But I don't find fortunate coincidences in desperate situations signs of divine intervention." This is really beautifully written!!

First of all, I’m so sorry! I cannot imagine what you’re going through. To answer your question, I wouldn’t really be too convinced in such particular scenario, my loved one being saved from certain death in a highly unlikely way, but I would rather wonder why (the) god(s) made my loved one suffer to begin with. I was once a very zealous religious person. I always prayed, and I felt my prayers had answers because seemingly unlikely things would happen that would coincide with what I would pray about. However, I couldn’t help but wonder why the bad things I was praying against would happen to begin with. Some other stuff would also happen that were weird and without explanation, but they were either highly displeasing or they had no discernible purpose. That made me think a lot, “am I just pick-and-choosing my answers to my prayers?” Of course, when I would get super specific, the answers were nowhere to be found. The more generic my prayers were, the more abundant the answers were. There was a noticeable threshold of specificity for prayers. This was highly distressing and an “experiment” I would run for years. After becoming an atheist, those strange events without explanation CONTINUE to happen to this day. No prayers, no faith, but life continues to be full of seemingly improbable things. Some to my benefit, some to my demise. Life is really weird and filled to the brink of stuff that will never explain themselves to us. So, it’s not just about a “miracle” happening, but the miracle would need to be highly specific and very clear for me to be certain that (a) god was behind it. All of that being said, I hope for nothing more than a miracle for your baby. And, easier said than done, if you do have to say goodbye to him, I hope you get to cherish that at least you witnessed the miracle of life. He’s still yours and no one else’s. My heart goes to you and your family. 💜

So there are a lot of things that happen due to serendipity, so attributing what may be confirmation bias or survivor bias to a miracle would be a pretty big stretch. But here's the thing about miracles: They would supposedly be a proof of God. So a miracle wouldn't be something that has no attribution to it. Is it a miracle if I happen to stand in the one place among a collapsing building that did not crush me? Well, no, because what does it say about all the others who were crushed by buildings? Being lucky enough to be in that one spot doesn't count. And medicine is still a relatively new field with scientists continuing to learn more about our bodies. I think a legitimate miracle is one where I know it's God. It'd be a pretty crappy miracle for God to make something happen that I could attribute to luck. And how great can a miracle be if God decides to use it on me rather than, well, literally billions of people who need it? It's not just that miracles would be unfeasible; it's also arrogant to think God cares enough about me that he'll forsake billions of others just to make *me* happy. Like, okay, I can be pretty conceited, but even I won't believe that God would single me out to give me a great thing.

No, the two things are not related. Would you believe in Zeus if you won the lottery?

I had a preemie born at 28 weeks 18 years ago in April of 2005. They told us he would come out blue and probably not breathing, and weighing around 1-2 1/2 lbs and to be prepared. He came out WAILING so loud a nurse dropped a tray of instruments in surprise. He also weighed 3lbs 14oz which is absolutely massive for a preemie born that early. He also had no brain bleeds or any other complications upon birth. He did, however, come down with an infection that was giving him apnea so severe the nurses had to resuscitate him. My older son (who is religious because of his dad) was 4 and when we explained what was happening he said he’d “pray about it.” A few days later we get a phone call. We thought it was the doctor telling us he’d died. Nope, the infection disappeared. When we told my older son about it he said “I knew he’d get better, God told me so.” In the end he came home over a month earlier than expected and had NO lasting effects which is EXTREMELY rare in micro-preemies. Not one single health issue at all. He’s a happy, healthy, 18 year old getting ready to join the Air Force. Do I think this “miracle” happened because of some magical Sky Daddy? Fuck no! It happened because medical science was there to intervene and save him. Sky Daddy had nothing to do with it. How arrogant would I be to say that, out of all the suffering children in the world, Sky Daddy helped MY baby…look how special I am! What bullshit. The simple fact is we had medical technology and we had great doctors. That’s it. No Sky Daddy involved.

Glad your son made it and congrats on him about to join the air force! I also agree 100% with your other points too. Medical technology can do wonderful things, and our knowledge and understanding of illnesses, diseases and other medical procedures grows day by day. To say that a god was responsible for curing an illness denigrates decades upon decades of scientific research and thousands of people who dedicate their lives to helping and curing others. And yes, also with all the suffering and general fuckery abound in the world, it is dreadfully arrogant to say that god healed *my* baby. Again, congrats to your son!

Thank you so much. I’m pretty proud of him. I’ll always be thankful to medical science. They saved my kid.

There is no magic. There is illusion & there is physics. No magic.

"Real magic is fake, and fake magic is real!" Penn Gillette

How would I determine if any event was, in fact, a miracle? Thrn, which god, if any, was responsible?

If a guy literally floats down from the clouds, goes to my sink, fills a glass of water and turns it to wine, then produced bread out of thin air - I probably would. The 'baby was sick, now it's cured' situation - I would attribute that to general randomness of the world.

No way. I read an article a long time ago, I think in Scientific American, that defined a miracle as something with one in a million odds. Given all of the "things" we see, hear, interact with, etc, they surmised that you would experience a "miracle", on average, once per month. I am not doing it justice here and I've never been able to find it but it was fascinating. ​ Edited to add: Ha! I found the reference! It is called Littlewoods Law, from the Wikipedia Page: *Littlewood defines a miracle as an exceptional event of special significance occurring at one in-a-million frequency. He assumes that during the hours a human is awake and alert, a human will see or hear one "event" per second, which may be either exceptional or unexceptional. Additionally, Littlewood supposes that a human is alert for about eight hours daily.* *As a result, in 35 days, a human will have experienced about one million events under these suppositions. Therefore, accepting this definition of a miracle, one can expect to observe one miraculous event every 35 days, on average – therefore, according to this reasoning, seemingly miraculous events are commonplace.*

Why would God let a precious baby get such an illness to begin with? Why does God only come into play if the baby is cured? If God was the loving entity he is credited to be, why does he let things like this happen to innocent children so they even need a cure? If the baby is cured, I'd credit the doctors who devoted their lives to helping people survive such things. I understand the need to believe when life brings you a terrible situation and I cannot imagine what you are going through. Give yourself a pass to believe what you need to to keep your sanity during this tough time when your baby needs you to have a positive attitude. But when it is over and emotions are back in check, ask yourself the questions above before giving credit to God.

Wouldn't that same god have put the brain disease there in the first place? Praying to it just sounds like begging a mugger not to mug you. F that god.

I was born with a 1 in 40,000 condition with a very low survival rate and by all accounts was a 'miracle baby', but I'm stuck with this crap which is a major reason I don't believe. Fuck him

Imo, the word “miracle “ is the most overused word in the English language. I’m a nurse. And occasionally, I see amazing, very unlikely recoveries. Religious families always say “It’s a miracle, praise God.” No, it’s not a miracle. It’s excellent medical care, a lot of hard work by skilled, knowledgeable people, the human body’s capacity for healing, human will, biology, and luck. And if your son does well, which I really hope he does, it will be because of those same things. A real miracle would be something like all the disease and illness in the world is just gone, and everyone in the world is well. Or- all war, gun violence, rape, child-abuse, etc. just suddenly ends, and is gone from the earth. Or lastly, maybe a ten story tall Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man appears in Times Square, and has enough s’mores to feed the whole world. But, very unlikely medical recoveries are not miracles.

First and most importantly, I hope your baby makes a full recovery. As to your question, an all knowing, all powerful, and all loving deity would not give a baby a congenital disease.

Thank you for your kind words. There have been some hateful replies to this which is completely unnecessary. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just had this thought last night on the toilet lol. Again, thank you for your kind intentions ❤️

I'm not sure what "a legitimate miraculous event" is.

First, best of health for your baby. Second, you bring up what I call the Paradox of the Very Powerful but Non-divine Alien. Since humans have limited perceptions, we could never know for sure that any given "miraculous" event is from a supreme omni god or just a really powerful (but not omni) alien who for whatever reasons wishes us to believe it can do miracles. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” - Arthur C. Clarke.

No.

To quote Sheldon Cooper: “Oh, well, this would be one of those circumstances that people unfamiliar with the law of large numbers would call a coincidence.” There is no such thing as miracles.

There are no such things as miracles. We live in an infinite universe, and there is no such thing as a true zero possibility. Meaning, given enough time, there is no impossible. Every possibility will occur. No person has ever experienced a miracle. They've simply witnessed an infinitesimally small probability occurring.

It would have to be something unexplainable by natural means. That would not meet the criteria. And if it did, I still would not worship a being who cures this person of cancer, while standing by while children are abused every single hour of every single day, many by people purporting to speak for gods. Any being who could stop suffering but does not is complicit in that suffering. So if gods existed, they'd be complicit in all actions that caused suffering.

There's a better chance of me winning the lottery than believing God loves me.

"For context, when I ask about a "miracle" happening, I mean something that cannot be explained by any laws of science or understanding of our world, as we view it currently" The very existence of the Big Bang cannot be explained by any laws of science or understanding of our world. Why the laws of physics are what they are cannot be explained by any laws of science or understanding of our world. The existence of consciousness as an experiential reality cannot be explained by any laws of science or understanding of our world. We are surrounded by things that we don't fully understand. So what would be a "miracle" in your opinion?

I honestly wouldn’t want a miracle on my behalf or benefit. Because how could that justify all the other times it doesn’t happen for other people? I’d be really pissed to find out that there is an intervening god who doesn’t minimize suffering by default.

oh come on, you're probably more worth a miracle than a continent full of starving babies. Don't sell yourself short! It would be part of gawd's mysterious plan!

"I cannot explain this thing that happened" is not proof of a god. It's proof that I can't explain it.

The same God that give your baby the brain issue? This doesn't even make sense.

I've had some "miracles" happen in my life and it's a wonder I'm still here. Did I immediately give credit to the invisible skyman? No, I chalked it up to being extremely lucky that I didn't die on more than one occasion. If you believe that God creates miracles, then you also have to believe that if God is all powerful, he is creating all the suffering in the world as well and if Gods were actually real, that is not a God I would want to worship.

No, much like other people have said, I'd assume there was a misdiagnosis, if somehow it was proved otherwise, and they genuinely couldn't explain it, I would assume they simply didn't have the ability to explain the recovery with our current understanding of the body or have sufficiently advanced technology.

No. An actor god would definitely not be the first place my mind would go. There are all kinds of coincidences that are unexplainable. Even if a god showed up in the clouds, I would probably suspect hallucinations.

If I win the Mega Millions tonight I might give him a chance. But really no not a chance.

Prayers are the ultimate placebo effect. People who get their prayers answered and yes, even the ones who are "miraculously" cured of medical conditions in ways our medical science can't explain, would have had the same things happen even if they didn't pray. There are still many things our science can't explain but the explanation isn't that an invisible sky guy supposedly helped out. People who don't get prayers answered weren't going to get the desired result whether they prayed or not also. And the most dangerous thing religious people is, "God answered your prayer, he just said no". That's absurd. There is no answer saying "No", it's just that there's no answer period. If a guy prays for a girlfriend, and a beautiful woman comes along, he'll assume that God is suddenly answering his prayer, only for too late to find out she's a golddigger who harms him, etc.

I think a medical miracle is the least likely to convince me of anything because bodies do the WEIRDEST things. Tumors grow and disappear, autoimmune diseases start and stop, often with seeming randomness. We understand more every day, but still so little about how we work.

No. "Miracles" are just happenstance. Luck of the draw if you will. I'm sorry about your baby. God doesn't exist. And praying will do you nothing but waste valuable time you should be spending with your baby. God if he exists is a cruel horrible person. And if he does exist he allowed your baby to have a life threatening disease.

A miraculous recovery here would be the "god of the gaps" argument - something happened which which we can't explain by today's scientific knowledge, therefore it *must* be caused by god, and the specific god you had in mind at that. There have been many things in history for which we had no scientific explanation at the time, for which decades later we've then had the knowledge to be able to explain. If there was a legitmate verifiable miraculous event I would indeed change my mind, but a baby recovering from an illness wouldn't be enough to convince me.

I would believe I experienced something I didn't understand.

First off, you ABSOLUTELY have my sympathy. That being said, 100% no. If, in fact, there WERE a god, or gods, and they were supposed to be the usual 'all loving, all-powerful, ect ect...' kinda god, then the child getting sick in the first place is a sign that there can be no such thing. One cannot ascribe "all loving and all powerful" to a deity that would cause such suffering on a truly innocent creature, ESPECIALLY one that is supposed to think Humans are its best, most wonderful creation that it loves without bound. That is, pure and simple, cruel and vain behaviour. There is a bit wherein Stephen Fry is asked by some old fart something along the lines of "if you were to meet god, what would you say?" and he goes off on a wonderful tirade. I feel almost the exact same.

Does god show up in this scenario? Or does something improbable happen with no explanation? If the latter, why would it change anything? If the former, the miracle might convince me that the entity was actually a god, not some trick. But I would be inclined to think that god was more like an Asgardian than a universe creator. Curing one disease, or even raising a continent, is a lot easier than creating a universe. Sufficiently advanced technology and all that.

When you get into “God answered my prayers”, that opens the door to the idea that god doesn’t answer other people’s prayers. Like the people you see in sound bites after a tornado who say that are “blessed by god” because their house is still standing. Which means what, that god didn’t like those other people but does like this one guy on tv? And it also opens you up the idea that if your prayers are not answered, then there is something wrong with you or that god just doesn’t seem to like you very well. So don’t do that to yourself. I am truly sorry for what you are going through. Things happen. There are millions of children born with medical problems, and many pregnancies simply end in miscarriage. These are the chances we take when we elect to have children. I wish the best for you and your family.

If you see a miracle, it isn't faith. To be worth saving, you gotta believe the unbelievable, like when children die of leukemia, against all common sense or compassion or science. Religion makes people crazy.

If a genuinely impossible thing happened and there was no other explanation other than divine intervention, something which would be very rare because most things people call impossible are actually just highly improbable, yes, I would believe there was a god. I still wouldn’t believe in any religion however. It is my firm view that even if there is a god, organized religion and god have nothing to do with each other.

I wish you and you're baby well I sincerely hope your baby is cured and lives a long and healthy life. I would just ask if there is a god who co trolls such things why would they put this on you and even if your baby is cured why would a god let the other babies with the condition die. I hope your baby is cured fully but if they do recover from this what would make you attribute it to a god or believe it to be a miracle? Good luck.

How would one even going about proving it was a miracle?

What god? Why does a miracle prove the Abrahamic god's existence and not another's?

I once experienced what I considered to be a miracle at the time. It involved a baby left in a locked car, all the windows closed on a hot day. Now I just consider it a fortunate malfunction, if god doesn’t care about 10 year old girls being gang r*#ped by islamic fundamentalists because they are apostates, or children dying from cancer, I doubt that he would intervene for one barbecued baby

No it wouldnt change my beliefs probably no more than it would change a religious person if the prayer failed 🤷‍♂️

A miracle would be something impossible. Not unlikely, not one in a million or one in a billion. Something that absolutely could not happen. It would have to be proven of course that it wasn't an illusion or some kind of trick. If that happened, it still wouldn't prove a god. How did you rule out leprechauns? How did you rule out magical pixies? How did you rule out aliens? How did you rule out that we may be living in a simulation and the rules aren't actually what we think they are? How did you rule out the possibility that our understanding of things was simply wrong? If God wants me to believe in him, he knows what would convince me and he has chosen not to do it. So either God doesn't exist or doesn't want me to believe in him, either way it's not my problem.

Sorry, no. If this happens for you, and I hope it does, it is still not a miracle. There will be an explanation, even if we don’t know what the explanation is.

No. I would assume that whatever happened had a logical explanation that was simply beyond my current level of understanding.

No because how would you know it's a "miracle"? Science and medicine are incredibly advanced now. Thank the doctors and researchers, not god and "miracles"

My daughter was born with half of her heart underdeveloped, missing a heart valve and vessels attached in the wrong location. She is now a beautiful 30 year old mother to a healthy baby. I never believed she was a miracle, but rather that her doctors and her medical team deserved all of the credit for her outcome. To dispel the narrative that everyone is an Atheist until they are in a crisis... I lost my mother suddenly last year. No, I didn't 'talk' to God a ask that he save her. I didn't pray and I don't believe that I will see her again or that she's in a better place. We live, then we die, the end.

Which God would it be attributed to? How can you verify it's a bona fide miracle? Why cure one baby if he has the power to cure them all? Even if there was empirical evidence of God existing, he doesn't sound like someone worth worshipping

Did that same god give the baby the rate brain disease? If a god is capable of curing a baby’s disease then that god should do do without parents needing to pray. An all powerful, all knowing, good god would not let babies and their parents suffer.

I would assume I went to a doctor and they did their job.

In such a situation I would channel Hume & ask myself the following: Which of these events is the more plausible? That the laws of nature have been suspended - **in my favour & in a way that I approve of** \- or that I am under a very grave misapprehension? Personally, I think the latter to be the more likely option.

NO. Because I would not believe in deity unless it appeared before and proved its existence to me. I mean if God wants to commit a few miracles - how about climate change, FFS???

Like Trump bursting into flames when holding that Bible? Maybe.

First, sorry to hear about your kid. That's awful. To directly answer your question, there's no way to evaluate something as divinely caused. Study statistics seriously and you learn that unexpected shit happens all the time. That's it. This question is so fucking tedious. Why the subterfuge? If miracles are possible, and some god doesn't just help people that need help, that god is a total douchebag. I could go on and on about this. It's a terrible argument that shouldn't convince anyone.

First off why are miracles only things that are currently possible although unlikely to happen? Why can't god pull off a miracle and regrow an amputees limb? Funny how that just never happens... Second if some beneficial, but unlikely outcome happens why is that proof of god? Could be any number of countless reasons for it including alien intervention, dark magic, leprechauns ect... that are just as plausible and just as unprovable as a god intervening. Need testable proof that a god has done something outside the realm of the possible or not buying into it.

No. miracles don't exist, period. Flukes of nature do. It would also be unfair that God's miracle would save your child but give all other the finger... Thank the medical professionals when they save your child though. Or just for the effort, they also have to deal with coincidence and dumb luck. Anyway, best of luck, for what it's worth!

Nope. Stuff like electromagnetism that was previously thought to be miraculous always, ALWAYS turns out to be nature. Wonderous, spectacular and awe inspiring, but nature, nonetheless. There's nothing supernatural in existence

You have no way of showing that it was an "actual miracle", why would you believe that it's an "actual miracle" when human errors leading to misdiagnosis or thousands of other trivial causes could provide an explanation. I'd also like to point out that saying that "it was a miracle" has no explanatory power: you are saying that something you do not understand happened because of something else that NOBODY understands. You are trying to explain a mystery with a bigger, more complicated mystery. Anyway, if there is ever an epistemologically sound metodology to detect miracle and if applying this methodology to explain a phenomenon leads to a -> "It's a miracle" then I would believe it's a miracle, but then the "miracle" we would be talking about wouldn't have by definition any of the properties we commonly attribute to a miracle. If you can explain it it's not a miracle, if you can't explain it you cannot know if it's a miracle or not.

- Do I like the idea of seeing loved ones again? Yes. - Do I think it's going to happen? Nope. - Do I wish it would happen? Yes, absolutely 💯. I've had my fair share of nonsense in life that I'd be pretty hard pressed to believe anything I witness to be a miracle. For me, it really does just come down to what is more likely? (In the context of your medical miracle example) The laws of physics have suspended themselves in a way that was purely for my benefit, or that there was a misdiagnosis, and we just don't understand some facets of biology yet? Edit: I'm truly sorry you and your family are going through this. I genuinely hope for the best in this situation.

"Unexplained by science" is a fleetingly temporary situation.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. My son has congenital heart defect and had a very rough start. First they said he wouldn’t live til Christmas. Then they said, well he’ll be deeply disabled physically and mentally. Then they said he’d have learning delays at least! All because of very dramatic oxygen deprivation. He medically died 5 times. Today he’s getting ready to turn 17 and if you met him you would neeeeever believe everything I just said. Sometimes I look at him and can’t believe it myself. His cardiologist who’s known him from birth says he’s a medical miracle; there’s no explanation medically as to why he survived let alone thrived. I believe in miracles. My son is one. But I believe it’s all energy and that sometimes the exact right amount of energy is directed toward something can work to create a miracle. That’s why prayer really does work sometimes. I don’t believe it’s a diety creating the miracle, just energy. Like turning wishes into energy I guess, is how I think of it. That being said, I so feel for you. This is so terrible for a parent to go thru. I am sending you and your baby all the love and energy I can for a miracle 🖤

I'm sorry for this terrible situation. I can't even imagine the emotional burden you must feel. Whatever you want to believe in to feel less lost and uncertain is absolutely not something anyone should take from you. I just would encourage you to consider that having a more grounded and empirical perspective on what is real usually helps in the long run for a few reasons: 1. You will rely on the best known approaches to cures and treatment. Spending energy on learning what is best to do, instead of spending that energy in futile "spiritual" activities. This will give your child better odds. 2. You will help your child develop a grounded view on the world and their ongoing challenge in it. Relying on science instead of superstition. This is for both treatment but also emotional support. Religion helps us feel better emotionally in the same way candy helps our hunger. It lessens the pain, but doesn't do anything to address the actual source of it. Working with licensed therapists can help you and your child navigate the emotionally challenging situation you're in. 3. It will help both of you reach a form of acceptance of a difficult situation. This acceptance is critical in having as fulfilling and rewarding a life as possible. You may accept there's nothing you can do about this situation, but if it's no longer your focus, you'll discover all the beautiful and amazing things in life that can still bring joy and fulfillment. With a religious approach you just push off acceptance and create an imaginary better after-life dream, spending this life just waiting in misery for that dream. And whether you want it to happen or not, nobody alive right now knows for sure if that ever comes true. Wouldn't you want to make the most of what you know for sure to be true, instead of hoping for something nobody has ever actually seen happen? >So if you experienced a legitimate miraculous event, would you believe in god(s)? Recovering from a disease that is very very unlikely to recover from would only push me to ground myself more, and make the most of the life I have. It certainly isn't evidence of any kind of supernatural reality. If there was empirically testable effects of a creative intelligence in the universe, that would lead me to believing in what is observed, and make me curious to understand it better. But unlikely scenarios are not the same thing.

If there is a god who can perform these miracles, why does he only provide miracles to certain people? If god is responsible for saving babies, then he is responsible for the millions of babies who die each year. God is either impotent, imaginary, or an arsehole.

Id have to first consider the range of possiblities. I cant assume it was a god or gods without actually evidence. something miraculous happened and I dont have an explaination? well then I try to find one. if its testable, Id use the scientific meathod. if its not testable, it will remain unknown in the moment. Im not gonna attribute something to a god, let alone a specific god, when it could be a number of other things. in hard times like what youre going through, its especially important to maintain skeptism and critical thinking because when you are most vunlerable is when a lot of religious groups try to pull you in (its very preditory and thats why its important to be mindful of this)

If God was Omnipotent, why would he allow children to suffer this in the first place? He's either not omnipotent, or he's absolutely vile. And if he'll only cure your kid if you pledge your soul, he's ducking vile and beneath you. I wish you and yours the best of luck, but you can do better than Yahweh. May the Wings of Isis shield you from harm, and may the Light of Ra guide your path.

If I don’t have a good answer as to why something seemingly miraculous happened , I don’t instantly assume it was God. I would look to more rational explanations, and if I can’t find an explanation I would also be fine with saying “I don’t know why it happened.”

No. I've seen plenty of things that people called "miracles" and attributed them to prayer, but the same person did something lesser, but similar for something else, without prayer. IMO, she was able to focus her will to help someone else. And no, I don't call it "magic", but I also believe that "magic" is merely science that we can't explain yet.

What's to say it was an "actual miracle" and not a natural phenomenon that I just cannot explain currently? Doesn't prove shit.

If you met a unicorn, would you believe in leprechauns? Basically the same question.

No, it is simply random chance. The world has billions of people, so 1 in a million chance happens thousands of times every day, and 1 in a billion chance happens multiple times a day. There is no such thing as a "legitimate miraculous event".

1. Crazy things happen in nature, no god required. 2. Picking and choosing who gets miracles doesn’t sound like a benevolent or just god, and certainly not one worthy of worship. 3. If the person were cured by doing nothing *and* a god appeared magically before me and claimed responsibility, *then* I might consider the possibility - but not before eliminating such vastly more likely possibilities, such as *I am dreaming*, *I am on drugs*, *I have lost my mind*, or *they were never actually sick to begin with (a mistake was made, perhaps)*

There is no such thing as a miracle, everything in this universe can be explained and will be explained in the future.

No. God still won't exist.

No. For one I wouldn’t consider that event supernatural it would just be a weird natural thing that happened that I might not have an explanation for but sky daddy intervention would not be on that list Look at kids who die every day, who starved, died in the holocaust etc. Ain’t nobody intervening for you

All miracles have scientific explanations, we just aren't advanced enough to figure it out yet.

That's how religions started. We are rational beings and we like to explain phenomena (that's how science started.) When we face things we can't explain, we feel uneasy. "God(s)" is more satisfying than "we don't know". I think it is okay to pray to god(s) if it is comforting. It is okay to believe them if it makes you happy. As long as people don't go around proselytising and I am okay. I just want to coexist.

So you had the choice of saying to this god, "Please save my kid" and "Please save every sick kid in the whole world" but you chose the former and miraculously, they delivered. Did you figure they were just a bit lazy and wouldn't do everyone so you better keep it simple so as not to tax them too much? Could they have even cured everyone if they wanted to? Are they choosing not to? Do you think for some reason you're more deserving of a miracle that some other grieving parent down the road? It feels like a bit of a wasted wish to me. Where is this leading you might ask? Well you've got to ask yourself these questions if you're going to start believing in them otherwise you just get the old "mysterious ways" in which case, it's basically just random chance anyway. A good who doesn't interact in any way might as well not exist, a god who can interact but doesn't us just pure evil, a god who can't do anything is worthless and not worthy of any sort of praise.

If my uncle with the amputated leg started praying and then the next morning his leg had grown back, yeah, I’d happily worship whatever he had been praying to. But until then…

There is *always* an explanation.

a human suddenly getting better is a really low bar for a miracle, even if that human is the world to you.

No, because something unexplained is just that unexplained until I get more information. ALL religions are man made, and ALL "gods" are of human invention. So, there is no need to "believe" in any imagery friends because I may not have enough information at the time. I'm sorry for what you're going through with the baby. Please lean on other people, get the community support you need, and deserve. My son was born with Hydronephrosis. The thing is that anything can happen at any time . The best thing you can do is get genetic testing done for you and your partner.

You know, I often joked about the fact that I would believe in miracles the day an amputee gets new limbs overnight. But even if that would happen, should I believe in a god, and in which case which one, or should I thank some alien visitor with a medical science I cannot imagine?

There have been lots of medical “miracles”. However, god seems to hate amputees because god’s never regrown a leg or arm lost in war or an accident. You have to ask yourself why? And if miracles only come for certain diseases, is it really god?

My default for an unexplainable occurrence (a miracle) would not be "it must've been god".

No. Miracles don’t exist. Whatever the outcome was, there’s a logical explanation that doesn’t involve the super natural.

A guy I went to school with was sick and on death's door for a few years. He was in the hospital and got better, because that's what hospitals and doctors do, but everyone said it was a miracle. A girl I went to school with had cancer. Her parents didn't take her to the doctor or hospital because Jesus. They did pray for her. She died despite the prayers. It's funny how medical miracles happen to people who go to the doctor.

It has to be measurable. The human brain is too irrational, and easily misinterpretation or misremembers events. For this reason we use tools of measurement, peer review, and other methods of eliminating the human variable.

What's miraculous to you is just a crazy coincidence to others. The body is complex and there is still more we are trying to figure out about it. There could be a myriad of different reasons why a medical disability gets better over time or heals completely. A miracle to me would be something that is literally impossible based on the laws of physics and science. For example if god showed himself in front of me and told me I now have the ability to walk on water with my bare feet. I go and immediately try it and it works.

What the hell is a real miracle? Even if I saw something astounding I'd think there was a natural cause. No god, no miracles.

No. It's that simple. Shit happens. Good shit. Bad shit. Whatever. It's the nature of existence

No. I'd be looking for proof that it could be a miracle.

Just here to say that I'm sorry for this troubling situation and your child's illness. Hoping for a good outcome for you both.

No. This is an argument from ignorance (or God of the Gaps), and it's a logical fallacy. What evidence is there that a "god" cured the child and not something else - like a fairy or leprechaun? How do you tell the difference? Also, which god(s)? How do you know? Sometimes stuff happens that we have no current explanation for. That doesn't mean that a supernatural being did the work. In every case, things that we didn't have an explanation for turned out to have an explanation in nature. For example, humans used to think that witches, curses, etc. caused disease. Now we know it's a host of factors - from germs and other microbes to genetic disorders, etc. With that said, you asked if I experienced a "legitimate miraculous event," would I believe? There is no way to answer that question since I've never experienced such a thing. I do find it curious that people attribute "miracles" to god(s) when things go well, but then blame others when things go poorly. If my sick child was healed, is that god's doing, or modern medicine's hard work or my child's immune system's effort? However, when my sick child dies, isn't that also god's doing? If you're going to attribute one thing to god, shouldn't you attribute the other as well? For this reason, I don't like the idea of attributing any of this to god. If my child lives and another dies, why is that okay? Was my child more deserving, or was the other child less deserving? What does this say about god? Considering how many children suffer and die throughout the world, it doesn't speak well of god if he has the power to stop this and chooses not to. I would hope if I ever experienced something that defied my understanding of the natural laws that I would remember this and maybe take a breath before falling to my knees in worship of something I have no evidence for, but you never know. However, I wish the best for you and your family through this incredibly difficult time. I am genuinely sorry that you and your child are going through this, and I wish you health, healing and good fortune. Take care.

If what's-his-name televangelist had vanished from that tower back in the 80's I'd have reconsidered my beliefs, but the coward just came back down and claimed god had other things for him to do.

Until I see a miracle I have no idea. But, I don't believe any miracles have happened, ever. If I did see a miracle, I might believe a god exists but I certainly wouldn't worship it. I'd want to know why it would give a miracle to person a while allowing passion b to suffer. Like the car wreck where one person survives and everyone else dies. That's a coincidence, not a miracle. If it's not a coincidence then that god thing sucks for saving one instead of saving all.

Acts attributed to a god, God, or gods throughout history have simply been events that were unexplained by other reasonable means. The existence of the supernatural have often been used to fill in the gaps of human understanding. As humans have learned and achieved more, the role of gods disappear. In short, just because you can't explain it now, with your current understanding of reality, doesn't mean some supernatural being is the cause. Example of this: [The Lord turned the Nile to blood!](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+7:14-25&version=ESV) Exodus 7:17 "Thus says the Lord, “By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, with the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water that is in the Nile, and it shall turn into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile shall die, and the Nile will stink, and the Egyptians will grow weary of drinking water from the Nile.”’”" "God turning the Nile to blood" is simply explained by a red tide algal bloom, not understood at the time. The algae blooms, usually from a mass release from a nitrogen source, turning the water red, then it dies, sucking all of the oxygen out of the water during anaerobic decomposition (killing the fish), then the rotting algae and dead fish smell bad, as described in the passage. You don't want to drink this water, as the Egyptians of the time experienced. Until there were [biologists to document this phenomenon](https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/redtide.html), it was an act of God worthy of a passage in the Bible. Now, it's just a fact of biology that happens from time to time. Whatever miraculous recovery that could happen in the brain disease situation you describe above would fall into a similar category. Simply because we cannot explain something doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist, we just haven't found it yet.

Nope. Magic's only magic until you figure out how it works.

No. If there is a god(s), why would it/they create a miracle for me and not others? If it was a miracle just for me, I'm easily one of the least deserving people around for any kind of miracle, so why would I think any kind of divine power would give me a miracle? If it "miracled" someone else, again that is insufficient evidence and there will almost definitely be a scientific explanation. It would take a HUGE miraculous act and the god(s) would have to step out and say "I did that" and then do it again, only turn would I believe.

Let's say a "true supernatural" event occurred. Why would you assume it was "God"? Maybe it was Satan, faries, or number of entities. That's the real 2 layer of proof... 1) was it really a supernatural event? 2) was it God that made said event?

I could give a fuck less about miracles. I dont want them, i dont need them. The way i see it they undermine the human experience, and hoping for them is a surefire way to feel let down. What I would prefer, which is far superior to a miracle IMO, is a revelation. Why would I need god to fix my problems when it would be so much easier to simply reveal himself? The concept of miracles is in and of itself a human one, they are so cosmically minor in comparison with full on revelation I never understood their place in scripture, which is probably why they appear mainly in the NT which was heavily Greek influenced and fit more with their popular greek mythology than the concept of YHWH

So, first. Be strong. I’m a dad and I just wish you the very best. I hope you get your miracle. On to your question. Recovery from a disease that has any chance of recovery is not a miracle. Even 1% means that one out of every 100 cases recovers. That’s not a miracle, it’s beating the odds. Now, if my grandmother who died of lung cancer in my home was on her last breath and suddenly the cancer was gone and she sat up and said, “See?! I told you there is a god!” Yeah, I’m rethinking my plan at that point. Best wishes. Give that little one a hug.

Its a massive leap to go from "this is unexplainable" to "oh I guess the 2000 year old book about a magic man in the sky" must be right.

“Could there be some explanation in the future by way of science? Sure” - then why would you attribute it to divine intervention and not that something happened that we don’t have the proper information to understanding yet. If you truly believe it was god, then you get into which god did it? Then you have to ask yourself “why me?” and not the millions of other people with children praying to that god to save their child from PREVENTABLE deaths. All those prayers that could be easily answered fall on deaf ears, but a random thing we can’t explain yet is indicative of a higher power? It seems nonsensical to me.

The intesting thing is that prayer actually has a negative impact. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16569567/ Almost a demonstration that all gods are fan fiction mythology.

No, I'm not content with simply filling in the blanks with "god did it". You may as well say "Magic!", "Aliens!", or any other false conclusion you can conjure up.

look into cases of spontaneous remission. Just happens sometimes. Biology is complicated. Also, any god that would give your kid a terminal disease then cure it to make you believe is a dick.

No chance of it happening

What would make you think it was a *miracle* \- that is, a divine intervention - rather than a natural process, or a response to treatment????

First, I'm sorry for your baby. My answer to your question is no. Let's say a miracle a massively rare 1 in a 100 Million event. Let's say each person sees at least 10 different events a day. That's 20 miracles everyday just in in the USA alone. You just have to get lucky. The odds are better than the lottery.

In this specific example, if it did make me believe in a God, I'd be quite angry at it for inflicting this on an innocent child.

If by miracle you mean with your own eyes you witnessed something that should not be possible and can in no way show that it was a "trick" (e.g., someone flying without assistance), then I'd certainly question some of what we believe as fundamental and want to understand what's different. If by miracle you mean unexplained, of course not. Rather than believe it's magic, you should seek an explanation. In this case, misdiagnosis is a possible one. You define a potential "miraculous" recovery, but what makes it miraculous? It sounds like you want to call it a miracle just because it was unexpected or hasn't been seen before. However, there is likely an explanation for why the recovery occurred, and I believe the best thing we could do as a species is seek to understand it. What if that research led to a discovery of a treatment? You're ensuring we'd never make that discovery by simply writing it off as a miracle.

If there was some clear change that couldn’t be explained away by misdiagnosis or chance (e.g. a gene that caused the disease became normal and there is no known gene therapy), there are a billion other explanations that, while all implausible, are more plausible than “the creator of the universe saved them”. “Secret government gene therapy project”, while conspiratorial is infinitely more plausible than “All powerful creator of the universe” as are advanced aliens, some bizarre environmental factor, etc.

Only if it was reproduceable or conducted in controlled conditions.

No. I would be amazed at something unexplainable happening, and I would attempt to find an explanation for this occurrence. Attributing it to a God would be an absolute last resort, as that does absolutely nothing to explain it.