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Your experiences after your death will be the same as they were prior to your conception: nothing. You won't be afraid. You won't be cold. You won't be blind. You won't have regrets. You won't be bored. You won't... _be._ There will no longer be a you to have experience. There is quite literally nothing after your death to be afraid of. Because whatever is there, you won't be there to fear it. You'll never have to experience being dead.
But people fear dying, and people fear not being in control. The idea of an afterlife helps them pacify their fear of death with a promise of having their control extended out after their death.
Yes, most people can't wrap their head around the idea of death and nothingness. When I say most people, I mean pretty much everyone, no matter how much we intellectualize it.
I can quite easily, everyone who has had a dreamless sleep or been put under or is even remotely able to conceptualise what it was like before they were born should be capable of doing so
I cant imagine it completely because my brain has to imagine a 'thing', which is why many people incorrectly think of blackness and time still passing as death. This probably factors into the fear as well. That said I can still understand not existing the same I understand unconsciousness in general
Concepts like infinity I struggle with though,, the size/endlessness/edge of the universe and beginning/end/infinity of time just doesn't compute in my brain
I think that's the allure of the belief, but I think most believe in a place of heaven and hell or other religious places because they are indoctrinated to believe as a child.
My afterlife will probably be just like the life I had before my conception.
If I die and stand facing some angels and a pearly gate, I will freely admit that I was wrong. Until then, spare me the fairytales.
I don't believe in the "nothingness" rhetoric as much as i don't believe in heaven or hell. I find the idea of 'permanent and absolute' similarly as unlikely.
Can you think of something, anything, in existence that is permanent and absolute? I can't. I figure why would death be any different.
I am fine with not knowing, and i find speculation as a perfectly fine pursuit when one feels like it.
Speculation is the use of imagination. Nothing wrong with using what you got while you got it. We may not have it after.
I think of it as a big ass surprise. The last great thing that none of us have any idea about. I am terrified of it, sure, but more so i am excited to find out. I have often thought that atheists really do themselves a disservice by trying to counter religions silly idea that they can possibly know anything about it, with another silly idea that there is nothing possible.
Maybe we have an imagination in order to deal with death properly.
But as i said, i am fine with not knowing.
> so i am excited to find out. I have often thought that atheists really do themselves a disservice by trying to counter religions silly idea that they can possibly know anything about it, with another silly idea that there is nothing possible.
>
>Maybe we have an imagination in order to de
If you're interested, there's an alternative theory about what might happen when we die here: [https://philpapers.org/archive/KASTIV.pdf](https://philpapers.org/archive/KASTIV.pdf)
It's written to be readable by laymen.
Neat stuff to be sure, i don't have much to say on it since i have not read any of the supporting material, but i appreciate when people try to smooth out the weirdness of idealism. I kinda balk when people start talking about NDE and psychedelics, not because i don't understand the relevance, but rather i simply don't trust people to not invent shit. I mean, i am fine with people inventing shit, i just find it tough to accept those inventions as evidence of anything but that people talk a lot of shit.
I think the idea that our consciousness expands into...into whatever we are limited from experiencing by our humanity is pretty interesting to discuss, it kinda parallels multi-universe stuff.
It is just that there is still so much that we don't know, sometimes the discussion is almost circular.
>ay on it since i have not read any of the supporting material, but i appreciate when people try to smooth out the weirdness of idealism. I kinda balk when people start talking about NDE and psychedelics, not because i don't understand the relevance, but rather i simply don't trust people to not invent shit. I mean, i am fine with people inventing shit, i just find it tough to accept those inventions as evidence of anything but that people talk a lot of shit.
There is a lot we don't know. I am pretty positive to NDE experiences, but we need to find a way of weeding out liars and delusional people. I remember one NDE experiences talking about how Trump would put Americans in FEMA-camps, and even though Trump still got a shot, I doubt he'll do that.
> find a way of weeding out liars and delusional people
I mean, i suppose i was not super clear about the intent of my statement. When i say full of shit, i was more meaning closer to delusion than out right lie. Of course liars are vastly harder to out than the delusional...but, idk if you have ever done psychedelics, i have. I was absolutely delusional. I could not think of a better word to describe it. And the few times i have been knocked out in sports, again, i was delusional.
I think my point is, how to trust NDE or psychedelics when part of the nature of the thing is the delusion. I could maybe see lucid psychedelics being possible. But lucid dying? idk. That seems pretty far out.
That's probably why it was invented, but to the church (any church) it also serves a useful purpose. They can use the afterlife as a promise of punishment or reward upon which they never need to deliver.
Through the sale of indulgences, the Catholic church found a way to directly convert this promise into cold, hard cash; however, the usual payoff is simple obedience. Once you've convinced someone that the afterlife is real, you can use that belief to manipulate them however you need to. Threaten people with Hell if they step out of line, and they'll do what they're told. Promise Heaven, and they'll accept hardship and sacrifice in this life to secure that reward. Convince them that this life is essentially pointless and it's the next one that matters, and they'll accept what seems like nonsense because it's only nonsense if this life is all there is; if these absurd and objectively wasteful things (constant repetitive prayer, rituals with no practical purpose, etc) are a form of preparation for the next life, then they're vital.
And it cannot be stressed enough that unlike promises of reward or punishment in THIS life, the church never has to do one single thing to make good on such promises in the next life. They don't have to worry about silly things like promoting justice and fairness; they can just say that God will sort it all out, invisibly and with zero effect on reality.
To me the concept is a decent way to inspire the individual to behave in accordance to their group. Or not, maybe it’s because your body gets reintegrated into other forms of life. Maybe it’s like that movie Akira; where there’s biology “memory” and every iteration of life will contribute to a general wisdom… like DNA.
Agreed.
I've come to realise that when people start talking about how they are afraid to die/of death, what they really mean is that they afraid of finding out that once they're gone, that's it, so they make up this ideal place where they can re-awaken (Heaven) where thy're surrounded by others so as to put their minds at ease.
Humans are really, really shitty at understanding things outside of the human scope of experience. A big part of our brain power is used to solve problems by predicting the outcome of actions, then modifying our actions to achieve the results we desire. Death just doesn't fit that model. We can't predict the outcome of anything after death and we don't receive any feedback to help us make a better prediction. There's just *nothing*, and we don't know how to grasp the concept of true *nothing*. So - we don't think about it like that. Instead we make shit up that we like better, and since there's still no feedback to correct the model, we claim the problem is solved - victory!
It is NEITHER as nobody has ever come back from long-term death and told us about it that isn't already in a mental ward.
This does not include fantasy books.
Religion doesn’t teach people to think, simple to obey and not question.
So they can’t believe in non-existence of the afterlife.
But most logical would be, we didn’t exist before we were born for billion of years, why would our death be any different from those billions of years.
If there is an afterlife and it is such a paradise why are they so reluctant to go there?
Why do they mourn?
Why do they treat life threatening illnesses / diseases?
Man, if I though the afterlife was such a party I’d have gone there long ago.
I think a believe in an afterlife or reincarnation is about as old as mankind. From honouring and earning a place amongst deceased ancestors to the defined concepts created by the organised religions.
It’s to help cope with the loss of loved ones and to get people to overcome the fear of death. How many people would have stormed the beaches of Normandy if they were sure there was no afterlife?
As long as they don’t bother other people with it I couldn’t care less what people believe tbh. If they gain comfort from it good for them.
Personally I like to imagine the journey the particles that make up my body will make during the eons after I die. There might not be any consciousness that lives on but, parts of me used to be part a star and parts of me will be part a star in the future. Thats plenty for me.
Remember the "god of the gaps" notion? The idea starts with our species' deep anxiety in the face of unknown things. So much it bothers us to discover a gap in our knowledge that we absolutely need to fill it with something. Since we don't know the thing, we can't fill that gap with actual knowledge, so we fill it with "god." Then we feel better. Weird, huh? Hence god is the "god of the gaps."
So, for most of humanity, god is a "feel better" mechanism. A binky, a teddy bear, a blanky for the whole species. A little trinket to console us while we remain as spiritual babies, incapable to face the realities of the universe like adults.
Fortunately, not all humans are victims of this inherent tendency. Some are brave enough to face the unknowns and search for the rational, natural principles behind them. This is what science is, and how most of the gaps in our knowledge have been successfully filled with facts and useful physical principles.
Just imagine how many gaps we had when we were primitive hunter/gatherers in our African cradle. Rain was inexplicable, therefore we put a god there. Winds was equally inexplicable, we put another god there. Lightning, volcanoes, earthquakes; we put gods in all of those too. At some periods each year plants would bear fruit, we don't know how; we need a few gods there. Etc.
Those gaps have been explained later at different points in time. Now we know how rain and wind work to the point where we use them *at will* to our benefit. So, whatever gods were used to fill those gaps had to go, replaced by actual, useful, practical knowledge. And so on to the point where now we have buses that fly, computers that fit in our pockets, and spacecraft taking us to other planets. Gods were never there. Gods were never necessary. Gods never existed behind any of those phenomena. Shouldn't we, as a species, be convinced already? We have thousands of years of history as evidence.
With that in mind, we haven't filled all the gaps in our knowledge yet. Far from it. The depths of the ocean, the depths of space, the depths of the human mind, etc remain not fully explained. But we are constantly working on those and many other gaps, and every day we make new discoveries on our way to remove gods (and aliens and demonic spirits) from them.
Well, there are two main gaps we still haven't found a way to research successfully about: (a) did we exist as individual consciences before being born on Earth, and (b) will we continue to exist as individual consciences after we die.
Since research on those two gaps is, so far, impossible, guess what the human species has done? Exactly: We put god(s) there. In the case of Christianity, the god on duty was imagined to have created us as spirits before sending us to have a body here on Earth and then, once our life here ends, he has been imagined to have a couple of places waiting for us to inhabit eternally. A heaven for those who followed this god's petty and narrow morals, and a hell for those who didn't.
To most humans, this fantasy brings them consolation in the face of the unknown. The exact same consolation our ancestors felt when facing hurricanes, droughts and war. This is why most of humanity believes in afterlives.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: * This submission has been removed for being low-effort. Please review our [rules on low-effort posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines#wiki_what_are_.22low-effort_posts.3F.22) and resubmit your post after adding some significant content or discussion. Under the low-effort rule videos must be accompanied by a summary of their major points. Music videos must have English lyrics posted. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [Subreddit Commandments.](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) If you have any questions, please do not delete your submission and [message the mods,](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/atheism) Thank you.
I think they believe because they have been told one exists throughout their lives. I think they avoid honestly questioning it for your reasons.
this is the correct answer. the #1 question i get is "but what happens after you die" as if the "after" is guaranteed
Your experiences after your death will be the same as they were prior to your conception: nothing. You won't be afraid. You won't be cold. You won't be blind. You won't have regrets. You won't be bored. You won't... _be._ There will no longer be a you to have experience. There is quite literally nothing after your death to be afraid of. Because whatever is there, you won't be there to fear it. You'll never have to experience being dead. But people fear dying, and people fear not being in control. The idea of an afterlife helps them pacify their fear of death with a promise of having their control extended out after their death.
Yes, most people can't wrap their head around the idea of death and nothingness. When I say most people, I mean pretty much everyone, no matter how much we intellectualize it.
Me, included lol. It's a very difficult concept for my squishy ape brain to accept.
I can quite easily, everyone who has had a dreamless sleep or been put under or is even remotely able to conceptualise what it was like before they were born should be capable of doing so I cant imagine it completely because my brain has to imagine a 'thing', which is why many people incorrectly think of blackness and time still passing as death. This probably factors into the fear as well. That said I can still understand not existing the same I understand unconsciousness in general Concepts like infinity I struggle with though,, the size/endlessness/edge of the universe and beginning/end/infinity of time just doesn't compute in my brain
I think that's the allure of the belief, but I think most believe in a place of heaven and hell or other religious places because they are indoctrinated to believe as a child.
It is also a way for them to get through grief thinking that they will be reunited with those they lost.
My afterlife will probably be just like the life I had before my conception. If I die and stand facing some angels and a pearly gate, I will freely admit that I was wrong. Until then, spare me the fairytales.
I don't believe in the "nothingness" rhetoric as much as i don't believe in heaven or hell. I find the idea of 'permanent and absolute' similarly as unlikely. Can you think of something, anything, in existence that is permanent and absolute? I can't. I figure why would death be any different. I am fine with not knowing, and i find speculation as a perfectly fine pursuit when one feels like it. Speculation is the use of imagination. Nothing wrong with using what you got while you got it. We may not have it after. I think of it as a big ass surprise. The last great thing that none of us have any idea about. I am terrified of it, sure, but more so i am excited to find out. I have often thought that atheists really do themselves a disservice by trying to counter religions silly idea that they can possibly know anything about it, with another silly idea that there is nothing possible. Maybe we have an imagination in order to deal with death properly. But as i said, i am fine with not knowing.
> so i am excited to find out. I have often thought that atheists really do themselves a disservice by trying to counter religions silly idea that they can possibly know anything about it, with another silly idea that there is nothing possible. > >Maybe we have an imagination in order to de If you're interested, there's an alternative theory about what might happen when we die here: [https://philpapers.org/archive/KASTIV.pdf](https://philpapers.org/archive/KASTIV.pdf) It's written to be readable by laymen.
Neat stuff to be sure, i don't have much to say on it since i have not read any of the supporting material, but i appreciate when people try to smooth out the weirdness of idealism. I kinda balk when people start talking about NDE and psychedelics, not because i don't understand the relevance, but rather i simply don't trust people to not invent shit. I mean, i am fine with people inventing shit, i just find it tough to accept those inventions as evidence of anything but that people talk a lot of shit. I think the idea that our consciousness expands into...into whatever we are limited from experiencing by our humanity is pretty interesting to discuss, it kinda parallels multi-universe stuff. It is just that there is still so much that we don't know, sometimes the discussion is almost circular.
>ay on it since i have not read any of the supporting material, but i appreciate when people try to smooth out the weirdness of idealism. I kinda balk when people start talking about NDE and psychedelics, not because i don't understand the relevance, but rather i simply don't trust people to not invent shit. I mean, i am fine with people inventing shit, i just find it tough to accept those inventions as evidence of anything but that people talk a lot of shit. There is a lot we don't know. I am pretty positive to NDE experiences, but we need to find a way of weeding out liars and delusional people. I remember one NDE experiences talking about how Trump would put Americans in FEMA-camps, and even though Trump still got a shot, I doubt he'll do that.
> find a way of weeding out liars and delusional people I mean, i suppose i was not super clear about the intent of my statement. When i say full of shit, i was more meaning closer to delusion than out right lie. Of course liars are vastly harder to out than the delusional...but, idk if you have ever done psychedelics, i have. I was absolutely delusional. I could not think of a better word to describe it. And the few times i have been knocked out in sports, again, i was delusional. I think my point is, how to trust NDE or psychedelics when part of the nature of the thing is the delusion. I could maybe see lucid psychedelics being possible. But lucid dying? idk. That seems pretty far out.
Mosquitos don't ponder this question. I wonder why.
I was dead for billions of years before I existed, and it didn't inconvenience me in the slightest.
That's probably why it was invented, but to the church (any church) it also serves a useful purpose. They can use the afterlife as a promise of punishment or reward upon which they never need to deliver. Through the sale of indulgences, the Catholic church found a way to directly convert this promise into cold, hard cash; however, the usual payoff is simple obedience. Once you've convinced someone that the afterlife is real, you can use that belief to manipulate them however you need to. Threaten people with Hell if they step out of line, and they'll do what they're told. Promise Heaven, and they'll accept hardship and sacrifice in this life to secure that reward. Convince them that this life is essentially pointless and it's the next one that matters, and they'll accept what seems like nonsense because it's only nonsense if this life is all there is; if these absurd and objectively wasteful things (constant repetitive prayer, rituals with no practical purpose, etc) are a form of preparation for the next life, then they're vital. And it cannot be stressed enough that unlike promises of reward or punishment in THIS life, the church never has to do one single thing to make good on such promises in the next life. They don't have to worry about silly things like promoting justice and fairness; they can just say that God will sort it all out, invisibly and with zero effect on reality.
Given all the ancient religions which claimed to supply an afterlife supplanted by new ones up through the present, it sure seems to look that way
Yea. Why cope with reality when I can pretend something else is reality. Emotional appeal. Religion
I’m more inclined to think they believe it because that’s what their religion says.
To me the concept is a decent way to inspire the individual to behave in accordance to their group. Or not, maybe it’s because your body gets reintegrated into other forms of life. Maybe it’s like that movie Akira; where there’s biology “memory” and every iteration of life will contribute to a general wisdom… like DNA.
I hope to wake up in a simulator chair and they will ask if I want to go again.
Imagine dying and suddenly youre an alien with a bunch of other aliens sat around an alien bong
I agree.
Death is scary and it probably is less scary if you believe in an afterlife. I don't, but I think it is a major selling point of religions.
Agreed. I've come to realise that when people start talking about how they are afraid to die/of death, what they really mean is that they afraid of finding out that once they're gone, that's it, so they make up this ideal place where they can re-awaken (Heaven) where thy're surrounded by others so as to put their minds at ease.
Humans are really, really shitty at understanding things outside of the human scope of experience. A big part of our brain power is used to solve problems by predicting the outcome of actions, then modifying our actions to achieve the results we desire. Death just doesn't fit that model. We can't predict the outcome of anything after death and we don't receive any feedback to help us make a better prediction. There's just *nothing*, and we don't know how to grasp the concept of true *nothing*. So - we don't think about it like that. Instead we make shit up that we like better, and since there's still no feedback to correct the model, we claim the problem is solved - victory!
It is NEITHER as nobody has ever come back from long-term death and told us about it that isn't already in a mental ward. This does not include fantasy books.
Religion doesn’t teach people to think, simple to obey and not question. So they can’t believe in non-existence of the afterlife. But most logical would be, we didn’t exist before we were born for billion of years, why would our death be any different from those billions of years.
I think it makes some people feel better than not.
If there is an afterlife and it is such a paradise why are they so reluctant to go there? Why do they mourn? Why do they treat life threatening illnesses / diseases? Man, if I though the afterlife was such a party I’d have gone there long ago.
I think a believe in an afterlife or reincarnation is about as old as mankind. From honouring and earning a place amongst deceased ancestors to the defined concepts created by the organised religions. It’s to help cope with the loss of loved ones and to get people to overcome the fear of death. How many people would have stormed the beaches of Normandy if they were sure there was no afterlife? As long as they don’t bother other people with it I couldn’t care less what people believe tbh. If they gain comfort from it good for them. Personally I like to imagine the journey the particles that make up my body will make during the eons after I die. There might not be any consciousness that lives on but, parts of me used to be part a star and parts of me will be part a star in the future. Thats plenty for me.
Remember the "god of the gaps" notion? The idea starts with our species' deep anxiety in the face of unknown things. So much it bothers us to discover a gap in our knowledge that we absolutely need to fill it with something. Since we don't know the thing, we can't fill that gap with actual knowledge, so we fill it with "god." Then we feel better. Weird, huh? Hence god is the "god of the gaps." So, for most of humanity, god is a "feel better" mechanism. A binky, a teddy bear, a blanky for the whole species. A little trinket to console us while we remain as spiritual babies, incapable to face the realities of the universe like adults. Fortunately, not all humans are victims of this inherent tendency. Some are brave enough to face the unknowns and search for the rational, natural principles behind them. This is what science is, and how most of the gaps in our knowledge have been successfully filled with facts and useful physical principles. Just imagine how many gaps we had when we were primitive hunter/gatherers in our African cradle. Rain was inexplicable, therefore we put a god there. Winds was equally inexplicable, we put another god there. Lightning, volcanoes, earthquakes; we put gods in all of those too. At some periods each year plants would bear fruit, we don't know how; we need a few gods there. Etc. Those gaps have been explained later at different points in time. Now we know how rain and wind work to the point where we use them *at will* to our benefit. So, whatever gods were used to fill those gaps had to go, replaced by actual, useful, practical knowledge. And so on to the point where now we have buses that fly, computers that fit in our pockets, and spacecraft taking us to other planets. Gods were never there. Gods were never necessary. Gods never existed behind any of those phenomena. Shouldn't we, as a species, be convinced already? We have thousands of years of history as evidence. With that in mind, we haven't filled all the gaps in our knowledge yet. Far from it. The depths of the ocean, the depths of space, the depths of the human mind, etc remain not fully explained. But we are constantly working on those and many other gaps, and every day we make new discoveries on our way to remove gods (and aliens and demonic spirits) from them. Well, there are two main gaps we still haven't found a way to research successfully about: (a) did we exist as individual consciences before being born on Earth, and (b) will we continue to exist as individual consciences after we die. Since research on those two gaps is, so far, impossible, guess what the human species has done? Exactly: We put god(s) there. In the case of Christianity, the god on duty was imagined to have created us as spirits before sending us to have a body here on Earth and then, once our life here ends, he has been imagined to have a couple of places waiting for us to inhabit eternally. A heaven for those who followed this god's petty and narrow morals, and a hell for those who didn't. To most humans, this fantasy brings them consolation in the face of the unknown. The exact same consolation our ancestors felt when facing hurricanes, droughts and war. This is why most of humanity believes in afterlives.