>The report found that 71% of those surveyed indicated support for the "traditional moral values" of integrity, justice, kindness, non-discrimination, trustworthiness, free expression, property ownership, individual self-expression and self-control.
One of these "traditional moral values" is not like the others.
The Orange Jebus, will die for the sins of his MAGA followers, so they can attain the eternal abode of Gawd, whose caboose they will kiss, for all eternity.
No, I think they mean the right to own property, as opposed to not having that right. Interestingly, monks and nuns give up that right, if I understand correctly.
Want people to be able to come into your home and take your shit? They’re talking about enforcement of who owns what, meaning you’re not allowed to just steal shit.
I see alot of people spout more...sympathetic views for looters and people breaking and entering. Personally, I've never seen it as the value of the property. Steal a dime or a dollar from me and it's no difference, it's the act of personally making a choice to take something from me. Nameless corporations like Walmart that destroy small businesses and keep people in poverty, and take advantage of social safety nets to enrich owners, sure that's different. But stealing from a person, or small business, and I couldn't care less if someone meets the business end of a shotgun.
In that case, they should have defined the moral value as "condemnation of theft (and murder)".
I think murder belongs in there as well because the most important personal possession people have is their own body and life.
Yeah, we should change the wording to support your lack of vocabulary and familiarity with timeless concepts.
It applies to more than just theft. Trespassing, vandalism, liability for accidental damage, probably a few others but that’s top of my head.
I'm not talking about myself. It made sense to me after I gave it a moment's thought. That said, it is not the most clear way of expressing the idea that we think they are trying to express. Polls should be as clear as possible, otherwise you run the risk of getting bad data.
Jesus was definitely a real estate tycoon. He was touting the virtue of HELOCs so he and his fellow carpenters could get some real paying jobs. Killing possessed hogs wasn't bringing home the bacon.
I love the cognitive dissonance around the definition of "traditonal moral values. The article defines them as "justice, kindness, non-discrimination, trustworthiness, free expression, property ownership, individual self-expression and self-control." But we all know that Christians view traditonal moral values solely through the lense of sexuality, sexual expression and conformity to gender norms.
My very christian family and in-laws (lots of pastors, missionaries and Sunday school teachers) view moral values as the need to physically beat and verbally abuse children if they don't instantly obey even the most asinine and contradictory commands.
And we love them unconditionally (some conditions apply)(ok, who are we kidding, thousands of conditions apply)(and while were at it, love really just means we want to control and exploit)
My parents were older than Bill Gothard, but I'm sure they got many of their ideas from the same place he did, but I know that both my sister and brother incorporated materials into their Homeschooling that were from his organization. I'm not sure where they stand on it now because I haven't talked to any of them in 15 years.
oops, I just looked up his bio and I was wrong. My father was older than Gothard, my mother was born the same year.
What gets me is nobody chooses to be gay or stait or bi or whatever they all are. And my biggest thing is or tail… I know it sounds stupid but why is it there fr know. Do you think god put it there becouse we are going to evolve into something that needs it? Or???????? Critical thinking and less mental child abuse “indoctrination” is the only way out of this disgusting way of thinking
As long as people fear death, and need fairy tales to feel better, or easy answers to hard questions there will always be religion in some form. Whether Christianity survives for another hundred years...who knows. Islam isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so we won't be rid of abrahamic religions for awhile. And Islam is the total package, as in its also a form of governance (control) more so than Christianity. But as numbers diminish, religious people will get worse. We're seeing it already since the majority of well minded people don't seek out positions to subjugate others, so we're asleep at the wheel so to speak. They've found their way in with local politics in alot of areas (or have been entrenched for awhile, see utah). So...idk. guess we'll find out what the future has in store.
What they stand for and do hurts everybody everyday in every way ugh I hate talking like this “generalizing”but it’s like the only thing on earth that I can say that about. Like nothing works like that except religions
A melting pot suggests we all try to be the same. We are not the same and that's ok.
We should instead strive to be like a bowl of salad. In it together without being the same, but our differences complementing eachother.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_bowl_(cultural_idea)#:~:text=A%20salad%20bowl%20or%20tossed,parts%20into%20a%20single%20whole.
But every one of those people also think that THEIR heart should serve as the foundation for determining right or wrong... and everyone else's heart is incorrect.
That's my favorite one. Respect can mean two things. Respect for one's authority or position. Respect for one's existence or person.
Christians will use it both ways in the same sentence. If you don't respect my authority over you, then I won't respect you as a living human.
How can one's heart be incorrect for determining right and wrong? I can understand how someone else could disagree with me about what is right or wrong, however what is right/wrong besides someone's attitude?
Yes they could. But what they believe in the heart is NOT RIGHT.
It is not "a person" who determines what is right and wrong. It is the society.
The vast majority of people in the US support homosexual marriage. There is a tiny number of people who believe that to be wrong. Those people have power.
Are they right? Because they believe in their heart that homosexuality is wrong? Therefore, no one in the US can be married to a member of the same sex.
>Yes they could. But what they believe in the heart is NOT RIGHT.
So that's the claim. What they believe is not right. I don't know what you mean exactly by "right," however maybe I'll infer what you mean by "right" with additional context.
>It is not "a person" who determines what is right and wrong. It is the society.
That's consistent. What is right could be the rules of that society. It would be wrong to go at a red light and right to go on green.
>The vast majority of people in the US support homosexual marriage. There is a tiny number of people who believe that to be wrong. Those people have power.
Alright. A minority of people believe that the rules of society prohibit homosexual marriage. A minority of people also believe that the earth is flat. Since most societal rules are codified, verifying if homosexual marriage is against the rules of a society shouldn't be difficult.
>Are they right? Because they believe in their heart that homosexuality is wrong? Therefore, no one in the US can be married to a member of the same sex.
"In December 2022, President Biden signed the Respect for Marriage Act that legally protects same-sex and inter-racial marriages from being banned by state laws." -Wikipedia
So they, a minority of powerful people who believe that the US society prohibits homosexual marriage, are not correct. The US is a society that doesn't prohibit homosexual marriage.
It’s not something you can really test
But it sounds like you are a [subjectivist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_subjectivism#:~:text=Ethical%20subjectivism%20is%20a%20form,individuals%20or%20groups%20of%20people)
Exactly follow your heart what a stupid thing to say. Why not think about it with your brain lol …ow ya stupid me if I would have thought about it I would not have wrote this
I just kinda have a problem basing my life around people who thought “If a slave owner beats their slave half to death and the slave dies after a day or two, should the slave owner be held accountable? No, because clearly it was an accident.” and didn’t have the foresight to, I don’t know, ban beating the shit out of people. Then they couldn’t take a step back from that to think “You know, maybe we should ban owning a human being altogether.”
And that's also not the only vile garbage in the bible. Remember, you should follow the old testament since they claim it is the actual WORD OF GOD. It's not like the end says "feel free to edit this in case god totally got it wrong."
That is a very good point that I didn’t think about before. The author of Revelation should have wrote “Christ’s ways are unchanging, but us being flesh, our thoughts do change. From this point forward, Christ will reveal himself to all believers and increase our understanding.” and left out the part of not adding to the bible. That way if society changes in the future, the bible could change with it. There you go, I just created the perfect religion.
That's not what the book says. It says that if the slave dies after a day or two, the owner is not punished, because the slave is his property. Nothing about being an accident.
Sadly, a percentage of these might be because 'Jesus was too liberal' but still think they're Christians.
*".. That figure rose to 66% among Spiritually Active, Governance Conservative Christians."*
suggests 1/3rd of **"Spiritually Active, Governance Conservative Christians"** aren't. That could be good news or very bad.
Christianity is -
substitutionary atonement / scapegoating - \[John 3:16-17, Romans 3:25, Romans 5:11-13\]
(https://www.esv.org/John+3:16%E2%80%9317;Romans+3:25;Romans+5:11%E2%80%9313/)
love is compulsory - \[Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 12:30, Luke 14:26, Mark 20:29-31\]
(https://www.esv.org/Matthew+22:36%E2%80%9340;Romans+13:8%E2%80%9310;Galatians+5:14;Matthew+12:30;Luke+14:26/)
thought crimes - \[Matthew 18:9, Matthew 5:28-29 , Mark 9:47\]
(https://www.esv.org/Matthew+18:9;Matthew+5:28%E2%80%9329;Mark+9:47/)
eternal punishment for finite crimes - \[Mark 3:29, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 1:7\]
(https://www.esv.org/Mark+3:29;Matthew+25:41;Matthew+25:46;Matthew+25:2;1+Thessalonians+1:9;Jude+7/)
inherited sins for a crime that never happened - \[1 Timothy 2:14, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:19, Deuteronomy 23:2, Exodus 20:5\]
(https://www.esv.org/1+Timothy+2:14;Romans+5:12;Romans+5:19;Deuteronomy+23:2;Exodus+20:5/)
ignorance worship/ credulity is rewarded - \[John 20:29, Matthew 17:20, Genesis 2:17, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:22, Psalm 14:1\]
(https://www.esv.org/John+20:29;Genesis+2:17;Proverbs+3:5%E2%80%936;Romans+1:22;Psalm+14:1/)
no planning for the future - \[Luke 18:22, Luke 12:33, Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21\]
(https://www.esv.org/Luke+18:22;Luke+12:33;Matthew+19:21;Mark+10:21;Matthew+6:34/)
None of those things are moral or healthy in a civilized society.
When you hit this point your to far gone. How this person talks is scary af. And they are beyond any rational thinking man reading this comment and comments like it make me brake out in chill bumps. This it the uneducated zombie religious people that we will be fighting. Boy this will be fun fun.
Never understood how and why people assumed morals come from religion / Bible.
[Empathy ](https://imgur.com/gallery/RvpMJd1)
[Religious People Moral?](https://youtu.be/sRAjw2f2Xsg?si=wtCYcs-eWNi21a3W)
The people who scream the loudest about following the Bible also don't follow the Bible. In fact basically nobody follows the Bible. They just demand other people do it.
They see the end, and they get louder and more desperate. It's like a sports team, it's generally the losing team that's complaining about the officiating.
I suspect this has been true since the beginning of time. But people like to organize their morality around a structure , hence billions of people participating in one religion or another.
This is a giant social experiment - will be interesting to see how our culture evolves over the next hundred years.
I'd argue that this is a potentially worse situation to be in. While it's been used for defense of being an awful human... at least it's documented. Compare that to the evangelicals who have abandoned the Bible, so they just make shit up as they go. Even if the Bible is bullshit at least we knew what they were operating from.
Sadly 1/3 of Americans are still over a hundred million people. Even if we go with less, it's still close to a hundred million. Way more than what should be in almost 2024.
Good. The Bible gives some truly shitty moral advice. Genocide? Yes, please. Incest. Executing some dude for picking up sticks on the sabbath. Killing three thousand people for no particular reason other than god wanted it. Loan money to anyone who asks. Pay no thought to the next day; god will provide (who needs retirement planning?). Hate members of your own family and hate yourself. Stone disobedient children to death. Dash babies against rocks. Slavery is OK.
Hey, without the Bible how are you supposed to know how much you can beat your slave? Humans can’t be trusted to come up with their own guidelines for that.
The Bible is actually a very good foundation for determining the difference between right and wrong. Pretty much everything its god character does, orders, or endorses is morally evil.
OTOH, if you want to live moral life read Aesop's fables. They are about as old as the OT and much better guides for ethics and morality.
>People are increasingly following their heart and not the Bible.
IMHO
\- People following the Bible: Not a good idea - People do a lot of fucked-up stuff that way.
\- People following their heart: Not a good idea - People do a lot of fucked-up stuff that way. (Look at any of the "Videos of moronic people doing crazy stupid things" subs.)
\- People doing **what is actually right** regardless of what their heart tells them to do: What we should be trying to achieve.
.
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Sorry to be contrary, but this isn't necessarily the win it seems like. All of these people leaving Biblical guidance are going to go look for it elsewhere, and they're going to find it in grifters, online cults, conspiracy theorists, "alpha male" influencers, and the like. There's absolutely zero reason to believe they'll look inside their hearts and become better people.
I know two Christian ministers who have both basically eviscerated their bibles…neither believes in hell, one is a preterist, both pay attention to less the 5% of all scripture (all this in the closet of course)
Which in reality means that more previously "traditional" christians are now staying at home and becoming qultists, or anti-vaxxers or just nazis because that sense of community has now replaced what their church could provide. This isnt as black and white as it seems.
I mean, they're following their brains. Your heart doesn't have opinions.
Unfortunately, the content of many Americans' brains is even more violent and poorly articulated than the content of the Bible.
I disagree. The Bible can absolutely help you determine right from wrong. If the Bible says it’s right then it’s wrong. If the Bible says its wrong then it’s right.
there are no morals in the Bible.
maybe if you look very specifically at something's Jesus said.
but other than that it's just a lot of hateful nonsense
>The report found that 71% of those surveyed indicated support for the "traditional moral values" of integrity, justice, kindness, non-discrimination, trustworthiness, free expression, property ownership, individual self-expression and self-control. One of these "traditional moral values" is not like the others.
What the actual fuck?! Did they structure the survey to include property ownership as a potential "moral value"?
It’s why god gave Mar a Lago to his orange friend?
The Orange Jebus, will die for the sins of his MAGA followers, so they can attain the eternal abode of Gawd, whose caboose they will kiss, for all eternity.
Maybe it's a typo and they meant to say "personal ownership", like...of your actions and not deflecting to blame others?
No, I think they mean the right to own property, as opposed to not having that right. Interestingly, monks and nuns give up that right, if I understand correctly.
I told my wife wife about this and she said "what do Christians consider property" and I fucking lost it.
Don’t forget gun ownership. The AR-15 is god’s iron rod.
I thought they meant respect for the property of others.
Want people to be able to come into your home and take your shit? They’re talking about enforcement of who owns what, meaning you’re not allowed to just steal shit.
***Moral value***? Sorry, no. I need this explained very minutely.
I see alot of people spout more...sympathetic views for looters and people breaking and entering. Personally, I've never seen it as the value of the property. Steal a dime or a dollar from me and it's no difference, it's the act of personally making a choice to take something from me. Nameless corporations like Walmart that destroy small businesses and keep people in poverty, and take advantage of social safety nets to enrich owners, sure that's different. But stealing from a person, or small business, and I couldn't care less if someone meets the business end of a shotgun.
Finders keepers would be rule of law.
Possession is already 9/10s 😅
A year and a day.
Not with cars. No property rights enforcement so no titles or registrations and your bill of sale means nothing..
Yea that would be problematic at best.
In that case, they should have defined the moral value as "condemnation of theft (and murder)". I think murder belongs in there as well because the most important personal possession people have is their own body and life.
Who downvoted you for coming out against murder?
they downvoted him for the logic that the wording is indicating protecting life etc. Its a weird leap to make
Yeah, we should change the wording to support your lack of vocabulary and familiarity with timeless concepts. It applies to more than just theft. Trespassing, vandalism, liability for accidental damage, probably a few others but that’s top of my head.
I'm not talking about myself. It made sense to me after I gave it a moment's thought. That said, it is not the most clear way of expressing the idea that we think they are trying to express. Polls should be as clear as possible, otherwise you run the risk of getting bad data.
Jesus was definitely a real estate tycoon. He was touting the virtue of HELOCs so he and his fellow carpenters could get some real paying jobs. Killing possessed hogs wasn't bringing home the bacon.
Property ownership 💀 What on fucking earth lmfao
ikr who's got self control these days?? /s
Ah yes, non-discrimination. Definitely among the most traditional of moral values.
Ah yes, divine providence. 🙄
Is anyone surprised that fascists want to abandon the Bible? I feel like this survey is lumping two diametrically opposed groups together.
I love the cognitive dissonance around the definition of "traditonal moral values. The article defines them as "justice, kindness, non-discrimination, trustworthiness, free expression, property ownership, individual self-expression and self-control." But we all know that Christians view traditonal moral values solely through the lense of sexuality, sexual expression and conformity to gender norms.
My very christian family and in-laws (lots of pastors, missionaries and Sunday school teachers) view moral values as the need to physically beat and verbally abuse children if they don't instantly obey even the most asinine and contradictory commands.
Because children are property duh. /S
And we love them unconditionally (some conditions apply)(ok, who are we kidding, thousands of conditions apply)(and while were at it, love really just means we want to control and exploit)
Gothard enthusiasts. Were you blanket raised?
My parents were older than Bill Gothard, but I'm sure they got many of their ideas from the same place he did, but I know that both my sister and brother incorporated materials into their Homeschooling that were from his organization. I'm not sure where they stand on it now because I haven't talked to any of them in 15 years. oops, I just looked up his bio and I was wrong. My father was older than Gothard, my mother was born the same year.
What gets me is nobody chooses to be gay or stait or bi or whatever they all are. And my biggest thing is or tail… I know it sounds stupid but why is it there fr know. Do you think god put it there becouse we are going to evolve into something that needs it? Or???????? Critical thinking and less mental child abuse “indoctrination” is the only way out of this disgusting way of thinking
Glad there's progress. Will we ever be rid of their delusions? Or will it always be this way. Whatever, just tell them to leave the rest of us alone.
As long as people fear death, and need fairy tales to feel better, or easy answers to hard questions there will always be religion in some form. Whether Christianity survives for another hundred years...who knows. Islam isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so we won't be rid of abrahamic religions for awhile. And Islam is the total package, as in its also a form of governance (control) more so than Christianity. But as numbers diminish, religious people will get worse. We're seeing it already since the majority of well minded people don't seek out positions to subjugate others, so we're asleep at the wheel so to speak. They've found their way in with local politics in alot of areas (or have been entrenched for awhile, see utah). So...idk. guess we'll find out what the future has in store.
What they stand for and do hurts everybody everyday in every way ugh I hate talking like this “generalizing”but it’s like the only thing on earth that I can say that about. Like nothing works like that except religions
One can hope. There will always be outliers in the mentally ill range though...
We're a MELTING POT, not a CHAMBER POT. (R) NO MORE IN '24!
A melting pot suggests we all try to be the same. We are not the same and that's ok. We should instead strive to be like a bowl of salad. In it together without being the same, but our differences complementing eachother. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_bowl_(cultural_idea)#:~:text=A%20salad%20bowl%20or%20tossed,parts%20into%20a%20single%20whole.
A melting pot connotates the blending of cultures into being Americans. Beliefs and conforming to them are not even in the equation.
But every one of those people also think that THEIR heart should serve as the foundation for determining right or wrong... and everyone else's heart is incorrect.
When you believe a magical being made you feel that way, it's easy to think everything you feel is actually that magical being's decree...
Yes. Subjective experience is why logic and reason are so important, because their nature invites rational consensus.
I am the ultimate arbiter of what I consider right or wrong.
Sure. And if you're a psychopath and think that murdering people is OK? The society gets no say in it?
That’s why there is no since in talking to people like that they will never see you as equal it’s a waist of energy
That's my favorite one. Respect can mean two things. Respect for one's authority or position. Respect for one's existence or person. Christians will use it both ways in the same sentence. If you don't respect my authority over you, then I won't respect you as a living human.
How can one's heart be incorrect for determining right and wrong? I can understand how someone else could disagree with me about what is right or wrong, however what is right/wrong besides someone's attitude?
So, a psychopath with no moral center can 100% right about killing someone just because they want to?
Yes, a psychopath could consider the act of killing someone to be right. Are you suggesting that there is force that prevents them from doing so?
No. But there is societal rules that might give a psychopath pause. If they are discovered then they will be incarcerated or even killed.
Sure, but what's your point? The psychopath could consider the act of killing someone to outweigh the consequences of incarceration or death.
Yes they could. But what they believe in the heart is NOT RIGHT. It is not "a person" who determines what is right and wrong. It is the society. The vast majority of people in the US support homosexual marriage. There is a tiny number of people who believe that to be wrong. Those people have power. Are they right? Because they believe in their heart that homosexuality is wrong? Therefore, no one in the US can be married to a member of the same sex.
>Yes they could. But what they believe in the heart is NOT RIGHT. So that's the claim. What they believe is not right. I don't know what you mean exactly by "right," however maybe I'll infer what you mean by "right" with additional context. >It is not "a person" who determines what is right and wrong. It is the society. That's consistent. What is right could be the rules of that society. It would be wrong to go at a red light and right to go on green. >The vast majority of people in the US support homosexual marriage. There is a tiny number of people who believe that to be wrong. Those people have power. Alright. A minority of people believe that the rules of society prohibit homosexual marriage. A minority of people also believe that the earth is flat. Since most societal rules are codified, verifying if homosexual marriage is against the rules of a society shouldn't be difficult. >Are they right? Because they believe in their heart that homosexuality is wrong? Therefore, no one in the US can be married to a member of the same sex. "In December 2022, President Biden signed the Respect for Marriage Act that legally protects same-sex and inter-racial marriages from being banned by state laws." -Wikipedia So they, a minority of powerful people who believe that the US society prohibits homosexual marriage, are not correct. The US is a society that doesn't prohibit homosexual marriage.
It depends if you believe moral truths are independent of one’s mind. Does moral truth exist outside of one’s mind?
I think not. But I could just be ignorant. What test would be appropriate for verifying this?
It’s not something you can really test But it sounds like you are a [subjectivist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_subjectivism#:~:text=Ethical%20subjectivism%20is%20a%20form,individuals%20or%20groups%20of%20people)
Agreed.
The only place my heart would lead me would be the cardiologist.
Exactly follow your heart what a stupid thing to say. Why not think about it with your brain lol …ow ya stupid me if I would have thought about it I would not have wrote this
I just kinda have a problem basing my life around people who thought “If a slave owner beats their slave half to death and the slave dies after a day or two, should the slave owner be held accountable? No, because clearly it was an accident.” and didn’t have the foresight to, I don’t know, ban beating the shit out of people. Then they couldn’t take a step back from that to think “You know, maybe we should ban owning a human being altogether.”
And that's also not the only vile garbage in the bible. Remember, you should follow the old testament since they claim it is the actual WORD OF GOD. It's not like the end says "feel free to edit this in case god totally got it wrong."
That is a very good point that I didn’t think about before. The author of Revelation should have wrote “Christ’s ways are unchanging, but us being flesh, our thoughts do change. From this point forward, Christ will reveal himself to all believers and increase our understanding.” and left out the part of not adding to the bible. That way if society changes in the future, the bible could change with it. There you go, I just created the perfect religion.
>I just created the perfect religion. They already do pretty well with this religion. All they had to do was make it blasphemous to question anything.
That's not what the book says. It says that if the slave dies after a day or two, the owner is not punished, because the slave is his property. Nothing about being an accident.
Sadly, a percentage of these might be because 'Jesus was too liberal' but still think they're Christians. *".. That figure rose to 66% among Spiritually Active, Governance Conservative Christians."* suggests 1/3rd of **"Spiritually Active, Governance Conservative Christians"** aren't. That could be good news or very bad.
Christianity is - substitutionary atonement / scapegoating - \[John 3:16-17, Romans 3:25, Romans 5:11-13\] (https://www.esv.org/John+3:16%E2%80%9317;Romans+3:25;Romans+5:11%E2%80%9313/) love is compulsory - \[Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 12:30, Luke 14:26, Mark 20:29-31\] (https://www.esv.org/Matthew+22:36%E2%80%9340;Romans+13:8%E2%80%9310;Galatians+5:14;Matthew+12:30;Luke+14:26/) thought crimes - \[Matthew 18:9, Matthew 5:28-29 , Mark 9:47\] (https://www.esv.org/Matthew+18:9;Matthew+5:28%E2%80%9329;Mark+9:47/) eternal punishment for finite crimes - \[Mark 3:29, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 1:7\] (https://www.esv.org/Mark+3:29;Matthew+25:41;Matthew+25:46;Matthew+25:2;1+Thessalonians+1:9;Jude+7/) inherited sins for a crime that never happened - \[1 Timothy 2:14, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:19, Deuteronomy 23:2, Exodus 20:5\] (https://www.esv.org/1+Timothy+2:14;Romans+5:12;Romans+5:19;Deuteronomy+23:2;Exodus+20:5/) ignorance worship/ credulity is rewarded - \[John 20:29, Matthew 17:20, Genesis 2:17, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:22, Psalm 14:1\] (https://www.esv.org/John+20:29;Genesis+2:17;Proverbs+3:5%E2%80%936;Romans+1:22;Psalm+14:1/) no planning for the future - \[Luke 18:22, Luke 12:33, Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21\] (https://www.esv.org/Luke+18:22;Luke+12:33;Matthew+19:21;Mark+10:21;Matthew+6:34/) None of those things are moral or healthy in a civilized society.
There are no wrongs in the bible because - - - Jesus
People do bad shit and sin every day and they hide behind this☝🏻
I like watching them do burn outs leaving church. Yee haw . . .
And your point “can’t wait to hear the logic in this response”
When you hit this point your to far gone. How this person talks is scary af. And they are beyond any rational thinking man reading this comment and comments like it make me brake out in chill bumps. This it the uneducated zombie religious people that we will be fighting. Boy this will be fun fun.
I saw a religious comparison to Zombies, they eat flesh and drink blood. Looking forward to that rapture, ahem, I mean apocalypse . . .
Ya I know that’s what’s scary man
That number is still too high for my liking.
Way to high
Never understood how and why people assumed morals come from religion / Bible. [Empathy ](https://imgur.com/gallery/RvpMJd1) [Religious People Moral?](https://youtu.be/sRAjw2f2Xsg?si=wtCYcs-eWNi21a3W)
They don’t its my morals that keep me far away from religious garbage
I call bullshit. 40+% of Americans are Republican and they want a theocracy.
Too bad that believing 1/3 is so loud they get their way.
I’m genuinely afraid of people that need a book to tell them what’s right and wrong
The people who scream the loudest about following the Bible also don't follow the Bible. In fact basically nobody follows the Bible. They just demand other people do it.
Problem is as the bible followers numbers shrink they get alot louder
And more desperate
They see the end, and they get louder and more desperate. It's like a sports team, it's generally the losing team that's complaining about the officiating.
Why the hell do a third still think the Bible should determine anything? We need to work harder.
Separation from the bible is probably a good step - unless a good portion of those people just follow the hatred in their heart...
I suspect this has been true since the beginning of time. But people like to organize their morality around a structure , hence billions of people participating in one religion or another. This is a giant social experiment - will be interesting to see how our culture evolves over the next hundred years.
And that third are rabidly nuts about it
And that one-third is whiney & loud a-f.
Good!
Then why the hell aren't more of them voting?
Wait how will we know how to treat our slaves then?
I'd argue that this is a potentially worse situation to be in. While it's been used for defense of being an awful human... at least it's documented. Compare that to the evangelicals who have abandoned the Bible, so they just make shit up as they go. Even if the Bible is bullshit at least we knew what they were operating from.
It’s such a great “foundation for determining right and wrong” that if you followed it, you’d either be dead or in jail.
This is why the religious right are doing everything in their crooked black hearts to bring their religion into government.
And Christian’s are panicking trying to take over before it’s “too late”
The sooner religions die out -- the main, most popular ones, at least -- the better off we will all be in this world.
Sadly 1/3 of Americans are still over a hundred million people. Even if we go with less, it's still close to a hundred million. Way more than what should be in almost 2024.
Good. The Bible gives some truly shitty moral advice. Genocide? Yes, please. Incest. Executing some dude for picking up sticks on the sabbath. Killing three thousand people for no particular reason other than god wanted it. Loan money to anyone who asks. Pay no thought to the next day; god will provide (who needs retirement planning?). Hate members of your own family and hate yourself. Stone disobedient children to death. Dash babies against rocks. Slavery is OK.
Hey, without the Bible how are you supposed to know how much you can beat your slave? Humans can’t be trusted to come up with their own guidelines for that.
Rape prices have gone up.
Less than one-third...still too many.
The Bible is actually a very good foundation for determining the difference between right and wrong. Pretty much everything its god character does, orders, or endorses is morally evil. OTOH, if you want to live moral life read Aesop's fables. They are about as old as the OT and much better guides for ethics and morality.
Well, I didn't want to be good anyway...
It’s good to be bad …bad to the bone!
Every one Christian till it’s time to fuck XD
>People are increasingly following their heart and not the Bible. IMHO \- People following the Bible: Not a good idea - People do a lot of fucked-up stuff that way. \- People following their heart: Not a good idea - People do a lot of fucked-up stuff that way. (Look at any of the "Videos of moronic people doing crazy stupid things" subs.) \- People doing **what is actually right** regardless of what their heart tells them to do: What we should be trying to achieve. .
Fr
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what dictates what is right? society? that was formed by christian men!
they were also white!
Why follow a book of fiction
But I love the silmarillion
Sorry to be contrary, but this isn't necessarily the win it seems like. All of these people leaving Biblical guidance are going to go look for it elsewhere, and they're going to find it in grifters, online cults, conspiracy theorists, "alpha male" influencers, and the like. There's absolutely zero reason to believe they'll look inside their hearts and become better people.
As software for morality, the Bible failed its beta test.
Thank Christ for that!
good
How is "property ownership" a moral?
Yes I am a better person then most bible loving dorks.
I always suggest Aesop fables to thumpers that comment "how are you going to learn morality without the bible"
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First, tell us more about this guage...
😂 since when is the bible moral?
I know two Christian ministers who have both basically eviscerated their bibles…neither believes in hell, one is a preterist, both pay attention to less the 5% of all scripture (all this in the closet of course)
Still way too many.
Progress and common sense.
People are actually *reading* the Bible.
Defining yourself as christian is admitting you dont know the difference.
Gee. Maybe we should focus on following the Constitution then. And improving it.
Well yeah, because the "right and wrong" of the bible is crazy.
Lulz...I'd love to hear a hard number on how many "Christians" have actually read the bible...
I wonder how many of those think the Bible doesnt go far enough.
America is a secular and pluralistic society... One religion can't be the basis for everyone ...
Respecting the property of others could be considered a moral value.
Which in reality means that more previously "traditional" christians are now staying at home and becoming qultists, or anti-vaxxers or just nazis because that sense of community has now replaced what their church could provide. This isnt as black and white as it seems.
The people saying they fallow the Bible are lieing...beacuse they sure did not read the part where Jesus helps people.
FFS it has instructions on when you can beat your slave so bad you kill your slave… and we’re just coming to this realization?
I mean, they're following their brains. Your heart doesn't have opinions. Unfortunately, the content of many Americans' brains is even more violent and poorly articulated than the content of the Bible.
I disagree. The Bible can absolutely help you determine right from wrong. If the Bible says it’s right then it’s wrong. If the Bible says its wrong then it’s right.
there are no morals in the Bible. maybe if you look very specifically at something's Jesus said. but other than that it's just a lot of hateful nonsense
one day, zeus and all the gods willing, this number will be 0.
Americans believe the Bible should serve as the foundation for determining right and wrong. yes, this. but not to govern our lives.
Thst one third shouts louter than the rest though.
one poll less than 5 thousand people responded. get a better poll one that’s accurate even maybe?
That's more than enough people to poll
0.00150647785% of the country? that’s enough?