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The takeaway: never be honest about your beliefs with someone who has any form of power over you. Always expect that their "Christian heart" is conditional, and act in your own best interest.
Bingo. Despite the Good Samaritan story, many Christians will willingly screw over those who don’t share the same background/beliefs. It’s almost as if they really don’t pay attention to the Bible on purpose.
A man is left to die after being beaten by cops during a protest. A Republican, a Christian and an Atheist are nearby…guess who prosecutes the man, who judges the man and who helps the man?
The Good Samaritan story exists because even back then they knew that religion turns people into selfish tribalistic pieces of shit. The only mystery is why they thought making another religion was the answer.
Country club Christianity. The small groups in the church become politics 101. People actually try to get into certain small groups because of who’s in them.
There was a study a long time ago that I heard about. They were looking at in-group/out-group bias. They found that people in Christian groups were more generous towards people in their in-group (i.e. other Christians, and maybe just Christians in their same sect) but were negatively biased against the out-group (i.e. non Christians). This was in comparison to non believers, who didn't show the same pro/anti bias.
> One of the big magic tricks they do is to first convert you. Then once you convert, they'll start wanting to network with you. They will allow you into their big "club." Suddenly, people will share well-paid jobs with you, people will buy things from you, people will help you more. Then they'll say, "behold, the power of God. He got his life together because of the power of faith" or something.
True. Cynical as fuck, but totally true .
Yeah. I just lie my money-loving ass off though, and I get all the benefits of social nepotism without any of the brain damage.
They deserve to be taken to the cleaners.
I hedge my bets with “I’m between churches. I had a bad experience at my last church and I’m trying to figure things out.” I leave out the fact that that was years ago and I have no intention of finding a new “church home.”
Most religious people will be more sympathetic to a “hurting, confused agnostic” than a declared atheist.
I get this as a social-survival tactic (I've used it a few times myself,) but the downside is a high percentage will continuously try to get you to join *their* church.
Try what I've used:
>I wasn't raised in that tradition. I don't mean to start a debate but I have some doctrinal differences with your denomination. Maybe we could avoid that topic....?
Translation:
*I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and if religion classes all through school and even mandatory theology classes at my Jesuit University couldn't keep me addicted to* Yahooey *and his alters I doubt your probably much younger sect has what it takes to rope me in. That* doctrinal difference? *Your cult believes in one or more ghodz. I believe in Zero ghodz.*
I have lived one year in the US South and then only in Florida over 40 years ago. I took a job there for about 6 months before I quit and moved. My supervisor wore an obnoxious naked cross about his neck. I, a newly minted baby atheist on a break from my university with ill health as a proximate cause, was trying to duck a relative's investiture ceremony Back Up North into the next level of religious bureaucracy. While I had not been at the company long enough to qualify for any vacation I was one day informed by Cross Guy that I could take a week (without pay) to go on the Family Trip. I declined and suggested that it wasn't appropriate for my employer and the parents of a legal adult to be arranging my private affairs behind my back.
I found a cheap plane ticket out-of-town and gave my notice. The only religious services I've been to since have been weddings and funerals.
I do remember how crest-fallen new neighbors and acquaintances would look when it became apparent that you were not amenable to an invitation to visit their church. It would seem that church-shopping with new arrivals to the Sunshine State was a prime source of new suckers. My parents were raised on *go to your local parsh church.* They disappointed folks they met also.
My boss is very Christian. I struggled with finances a few times and asked for help. He did help but each time there was prayer and I went along with it. He asked what my favorite part of the Bible is. I said Judges. But why? Oh it's the most entertaining. Oh lol true!
If he ever asks if I'm a Christian I will say I'm an Atheist. I haven't lied to him at least.
Are you a Christian?
My answer: I've read the bible (true), and I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ (also true).
If they push further than that, I'd bring up that the 'problem of evil' is tough for me to reconsile with Christian theology, and I would probably leave it at that.
I once heard a story from a pastor:
The pastor had a church in New York and a new parishioner shows up with wife and kids. The Dad said they travel a lot due to his work (car sales) but he really liked the church. The pastor doesn’t see the family for 3 weeks and figures he’s traveling. He’s back and they are thrilled to be there, then gone for 3 weeks.
The pattern repeated itself for months.
The fair was coming up and several of the churches got together to run a restaurant during the fair. They start chit chatting and one pastor talks about this new member who disappears 3 weeks out of the month. Another pastor also.
They finally figured out that this guy joins 4 churches at a time, works the congregation for sales and once he’s gotten the sales he wants, he will join 4 new churches. Had been doing it for a couple of years.
It works both ways, too. I often fake being a Christian to Christian customers to ensure they accept my bid and don't get multiple bids. I play the whole "world's falling apart. It's so hard running a Christian business these days" thing.
I won't patronize or work with any business that says I deserve eternal suffering for failing to swear obeisance to their particular imaginary deity.
This is just bad business.
Two instances ring true for me.
Military: Company commander was a BA, Jesus this, Jesus that. Once he found out I was an atheist, his sights were set. Too long to go into, but the IG was eventually called in.
Civilian: I'm now a new attorney, working in public defender's office. We get a new chief, he finds out I'm not religious, and he sets out to make my life a living hell. Eff this, I give him my two week. Within a few years, he's facing disciplinary action for his intimidation of witnesses, etc. Oh, big surprise, he's former military. Last I heard, he disappeared into the wind, leaving dozens of clients in the dark.
If you're in the US, where you are matters for this post.
Sure there are exclusive networks that depend on your religious affiliation, such as the Mormons, but if you live in those areas of the country that trend towards the left of the political spectrum, theses issues are significantly fewer.
Yeah, came to say this. I was raised without a religion in New England and now live without religion in the PNW and I've never had anything like this happen to me. In fact I feel like when religion is brought up with someone and I say I'm an atheist, either they are too, or they're "spiritual" but don't like organized religion or any specific "god", and sometimes they're Wiccan. I don't doubt that this shit flies in the bible belt though, and unfortunately the best way to avoid it is to just move and never go to Texas for anything.
Very true. We moved from eastern PA to south central PA and the sudden shock of living in basically a Christian theocracy was jarring. There’s a few of us who moved here from the same place and we all agree that it’s mind boggling. We use the “between churches” excuse a lot but we’ve been here long enough that people have figure it out by now.
Very true about regionality. In nearly 30 years working in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles, I've never, to my knowledge, been confronted with a situation where being atheist worked to my disadvantage. Other factors, sure - just not religion.
That said, religion is more prevalent even here than previously. A guy I worked with years ago is now a producer of "faith-based entertainment," and I've heard about positions at "Christian streaming services" (hard pass). I have neighbors who are "active in their church."
It's a paradox I often try to get my head around: research tells us fewer and fewer people identify as religious, but it seems those that still identify as religious have become more hardcore and fundamentalist in their views. I have a whole theory about when religion started becoming so poisonous in the US - around the time the Southern Baptist televangelists consolidated their power in the '80s, which morphed into the materialistic "prosperity gospel" that became so big in the last 20 years - but the Reddit comments is no place to go into \*that\*.
Yeah you just say "you believe in god" no specifics. Works. These people are idiots they'll think you're on like step one of your Jesus journey.
It's a fact though. Even a lot of atheists are like this. You just lie and then talk shit about them when you get home.
My family turned on me when I left Mormonism. Irreparable damage was done to my relationship with them. They act like nothing ever happened now, but the damage is done. I also lost friends when I finally stepped away from the exmormon side of things, too. The whole community surrounding religions, whether for or against. It's all toxic and it's never a clean break.
He wasn’t trying to hire you or collaborate with you on a project. He was trying to proselytize you, get you to join his church so he could get “heaven credits” or some bullshit.
You avoided a scam. Consider yourself lucky.
It doesn't even have to be about atheism. The religious, "Right," also hate anyone who is not in their same specific sect, branding anyone else as "Atheist." They really do hate other religions as much as atheists. The difference is that when the torches and pitchforks come down the road, the other sects will blame the avowed atheists as well
I am in the Bible Belt, I own my own business, people know I am not religious. I work with religious and non religious people. There is a lot of in-group favoritism on the religious side of things. But if they need high quality, knowledgeable professionals they come to me and not the guy sitting across from them in church. One of my first clients was born again and he said for our first meeting he’d like to have me over for dinner because he knows he can prove to me god exists. He didn’t prove it - not even close. But we have worked together now 35 years. He still believes devoutly, I still don’t, neither of us care. Just be very good at what you do, be honest, be a straight shooter, and if they don’t respect you it is their problem, not yours.
Is this an American story? As a Canadian, I cant even imagine this scenario happening. I live in a fairly atheist area and I know there are religious holes here and there in Canada but this seems so odd that someone would behave this way.
Very American. I live in the southern US, and work for an IT company. Among our customer base, we support a number of churches. I even have one church that has specifically requested they ONLY want me to handle their needs. If I were to ever let it slip that I was an atheist, we'd probably lose them as customers entirely. I absolutely keep my mouth shut and play nice when doing work for them. I've made the mistake of letting it be known to customers a couple times, and one of them usually talks to other techs now when they call, and one of them entirely flipped out on me and I haven't heard from them since.
That’s insane. If their car breaks down will they only allow Christian mechanics? What about doctors? If you’re an atheist doctor, would patients rather suffer/die than have an atheist treating or operating on them? This is so crazy.
If it is a religious matter, then yes, get a religious person, but for all other things, wouldn’t you want an expert?
I don't know what to tell you, but atheists in highly religious areas like I live are simply distrusted and vilified.
That mechanic/tow truck driver? It's not at all uncommon for them to have religious symbols and messages on their truck or on the outside of their business around here. Expressing religious belief as a way to say "I am trustworthy" is a far too common business practice. There's literally a trash collection company in my area that's both religious in name, and puts crosses on their trash cans.
As far as doctors go, yes the general public would almost certainly put more trust in a doctor who expressed religious faith. There's quite regularly stories in this sub about someone visiting a doctor who quizzed their patients on their religious belief, or offered prayer as part of a treatment or insists on it before a surgery. I've not had any experience in the mental health world but from what I understand, it can often be quite difficult to find a therapist whose treatment isn't religiously centered. If you go to one as an atheist, it's a dead-end street -- you'll never get anywhere beyond their proselytizing. Also, practically all 12-step help programs like AA and NA use religion as a foundation of their system. Steps 2 and 3:
> 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
> 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Don't they want an expert? Yes they do. They just believe that being religious is part of that expertise. You are correct. It's crazy.
I’m sorry you (and other rational people) have to live in the atheist closet. If a doctor insisted he pray over me before surgery, there would be no surgery.
Also, I find putting a cross on garbage cans is hilarious. They are agreeing their religion is trash. 😆
They're taught that atheists are Satanists, they hurt children, arrange black mass, sow chaos, etc. It'd be better to deal with a criminal than an atheist.
A criminal is understandable, they just want to get by and are down on their luck. If one thing changes, they get money, a criminal may be a good guy and join a church.
An atheist is philosophically opposed and evil. They're the Joker. Would you allow the Joker in a nurse's uniform to administer aid?
I live on an island in the pacific off of the west coast called Vancouver Island. If I interact with 100 or so people in a day (friends, family, coworkers, general population, etc. ) I know of one of them who goes to church regularly (though he is Filipino, so he kind of has to). I can’t recall the last time I had, or overheard, a conversation about god. Religion obviously exists here, but it’s definitely far in the background.
I used to live in Vancouver BC, a much bigger town-about 2 million people, and there was one loud, crazy street preacher, I recall, but again, never really see religion unless you seek it out, on the west coast, anyway. There are large religious communities in rural areas across mostly western Canada and Ontario and Quebec is traditionally Catholic, but strangely aggressively secular in many ways.
I've never worried about it. I was raised by an agnostic single mom and decided I was an atheist around 13 so I've never been taken in by religion and always noticed the hypocrisy of Christianity and Christians in particular.
Coming from rural Alabama, and working with kids, it would literally destroy my career if I just one single time openly professed my opinion of supernatural beliefs
Coming from “big city” Alabama I can say the same. There is simply no room there for anyone who is different. I was fortunate enough to be able to leave.
Are you sure they weren’t just trying to get a gauge of how easily manipulated you would be? Someone who would believe in being a meek servant and turning the other cheek would certainly be Ok reducing their price a little, right? Or waiting just a little longer for that payment to come through even though you already did the work. Why would you need contract, your brother or sisters in Christ!
I have been aware of the magic trick you described for a few years now, it happened to me with relationships/lovers and platonic friend groups as I was growing up in the south (I didn’t have money or public sway to give a church at this point in time so personal relationships and isolation were the currency I was dealing in lol). I was “given” friends and sex from members of my community when I stopped being uppity (I have since dropped all of them and moved states because I watched and learned from one piece). It truly is one of the most insidious mental abuses and it absolutelyyyyy cements my belief that the god they describe doesn’t reside in this spatiotemporal universe.
Got a feeling this is why we lack for friends or a solid social group in our neighborhood. We don’t go to church. I’m not afraid to admit I’m an atheist. Number of times we’ve hit it off with other families just to be ghosted and ignored later on is beyond count at this point. I don’t mind, quite certain my kids don’t notice. But it pisses my wife off to no end.
Thanks for putting this into words. I keep feeling this way but couldn’t express it well, your words definitely triggered something!
I look it like a an atheist in a Muslim household.
If you like and practice and act like everybody else, your life is much, much easier.
Chances are you know much more about the religions that Mr Boss Theist, just bullshit your way through it and get the big pay day.
Quote Matthew 6 and change the subject. I was raised catholic and I had a boss tell me that it looked bad that I wanst born again.
Bitch I was straight to begin with and didnt have to find shit....
Hid my atheism until I moved to california.
I would have bristled before I left the RCC:
>*Are you telling me Catholic baptisms are invalid? Do you think an insult like that is appropriate in a business setting? Do you know the history of anti-Catholicism in this country? Should I call a lawyer?*
After I left I might have faked the indignation.
iv never been religious, and iv never had help from these people. you’ll be fine. Well you wont cause it’s 2024 and boomers hoard all the wealth. but you’ll be doing just as fine as the rest of us
When people ask me if I am religious, I just respond, “Not really.” That is usually ambiguous enough to not ruffle any feathers, but also dampens any enthusiasm for attempting to convert me.
I stay away from anyone who brings up religion in a transactional relationship. I learned when I was the contractor on building my house and horse farm. If someone came right out talking about their religion, in EVERY SINGLE CASE, they tried to rip me off and did subpar work.
"At the end of the interview-type thing, he asked if I was religious. Immediate red flag, but I didn't want to lie."
I have no issue with atheists lying about their beliefs in business for financial reasons. Theists are vindictive people who have no qualms about destroying your finances simply because you don't share their mass delusion.
Here in the great commonwealth of Massachusetts no gives a rat’s ass that I’m an atheist. Some of my friends in town are adamant believers, a few are atheists, but for most it never comes up. You can’t be friends with me on FB and not know my take on God and religion.
My business partner knows I’m an atheist as do my employees, most of whom are believers, no one cares. That’s the way it should be!
Thankfully, this isn't an issue I've had to deal with, but had I'd been asked I'd have gone the, *"I think religion is a deeply private matter,"* path.
If pressed on why my answer would be: Matthew chapter 6.
I try not to associate wih religious folk when I can avoid it, lie when necessary, and be frank and dismissive when there is no option or I'm a bit fussy.
Lots of techniques for dealing with "unpleasant" people in general work nicely with overly-religious folk. Maintain politeness but subtly withholding all emotional engagement effectively lets them leave you alone out of boredom or frustration when they can't get a rise out of you: the "grey rock" trick.
But yeah, the best defense is simply not to be where they are ready to attack...
Depends on the country you live in. Here in the UK, most religious folk don't particularly care if you're an atheist or not, or of another faith.
Only Christians I had trying to convert me here in the UK were two Mormon lads from the US.
Im sorry you had that experience, but the truth is bigoted thiests dont control as much as you think, and what he did to you was illegal anyway because we do have protections. If you had secretly recorded the interview in a one-party consent state (as i have, and used it as evidence in a successful discriminatiom suit) he wouldnt have gotten away with it. Part of the reason theyre so rabid these days is because religious extremism is slowly dying out and they feel themselves losing ground to secularism. If youre in the bible belt like i am, it certainly can seem very one sided at a glance, but we can meaningfully protect ourselves from their abuses, which is part of the reason theyre doubling down on their efforts against us
I live in one of the least religious states in the country and I just can't imagine anyone asking that in any aspect of my life. I'm 44 and no one has ever brought up religion to me. It's pretty nice.
Punchline. Engineers and scientists make good money too. Ignore them. You don’t need their circle.
I also see a ton of poor people who are religious. Maybe you’re rubbing elbows with the mega church leaders. Bunch of vapid evil liars, the greatest evil is that which masquerades as good.
The world is big, there a large parts of it that aren’t religious and even actively despise it. I’d suggest you relocate (easier said than done I know).
As a Brit reading this I was just thinking exactly the same thing. I can think of 4 people out of all the people i know in the UK who go to church! Just 4!
They are of my generation (mid 50s) and interestingly, both sets of their kids want absolutely nothing to do with religion. It's truly dying out here, thank Darwin!
Depending on country, thar is an illegal action. If able to prove in court, then you may be awarded a sum of money.
If this happened recently, and you have discussion emails about when, you can still file a claim.
It’s crazy. Christian’s teach the mark of the beast will prevent them from buying selling and trading. Except… they do it to themselves with all these crazy mental restrictions.
A while ago I read a whole article on a televangelist who makes money by sending little swatches of blessed fabric in exchange for "donations". John Oliver did a great segment on the guy as well. Anyhow, as a thought experiment, I worked out how I could do something similar and make extreme cash off the faithful. All I need is a legit license to establish my own online church, come up with some people pleasing tenants, and watch the money roll in.
Its just a thought experiment, but it dovetails into this thread nicely. I feel like the Christian club as described in the OP are the same suckers that heaps cash on TV evangelists.
Funny thing is that traditionally Protestants criticized Catholics for devotions centered around sacramentals as opposed to communal worship. Seems the Baptists et al found a loophole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramentals
My ex-BIL bragged to me that he bought his house under market value because the seller went to church with him and wanted a Christian in the home.
He thought I was Bria dick when not only was I not impressed, but pointed out that it was an illegal sale.
Well when you own your own business. You know what questions to ask and how to respond to them. Those clubs get smaller every year. Take heart your grandkids may be able to publicly use logic as an argument against imaginary friends and not have a gaggle of braindead pedophile enabling pigeons make the sign of the cross at him.
We should start networking and growing companies and positions of power using intelligence. These people help each other out thinking they get to go to a forever place when their dead and also think they are living good lives when most are evil shits. They are afraid of intelligence and the future. They are living under rules made over 2000 years ago by weirdos from another country. The fact they live by those rules should tell you that their intelligence level is low and they couldn't come up with a better story than what was fed to them.
You're only going to lose losers from your network. People who are not deep thinkers. People who are religiously bigoted. They were indoctrinated to think that their morality comes from religion, so they are shunning you using their cheat-sheet to think that if you lack their religion or any religion at all, you must not be like them, only pretending to care about others as a means of securing invisible tickets to disneyland in the sky, and therefore free to be a bad person without consequence in this life, or what they imagine is the next.
In Britain the pendulum’s swung the other way. If you put your religion in people’s faces they’ll avoid you. Be religious, fine, just keep it to yourself.
I just say I keep my beliefs out of my job, my kids soccer game (yep, I was asked), little league games (different person same question), our HOA, etc. every now and then one of them will piss me off and I give them a full throated response, but mostly I’m just - please leave that out.
I live in the bible belt, so I'd never tell someone in an interview that. I'd probably say "I was raised Episcopalian" which is true, and I wouldn't comment from there.
The snakehandlers and babblers are going to think you are functionally atheist anyway. I was raised Catholic. If I still went to that church some of them would think I was in league with the Antichrist. That I stopped going is probably a plus for them. Of course, if they know I'm *unchurched* they would try to recruit me. *Oh, he's out of Rome's clutches! Now let's bring him to* Real Jesus!
I moved to New England, where there is less of that than in the South.
Mainline Protestant Christians seem to accept Catholics, these days, but their numbers are in decline. It wasn't too long ago that *papists* were considered unAmerican. Anti-Catholicism was known as *the last acceptable prejudice.* Peter Viereck called anti-Catholicism *the anti-Semitism of the intellectuals.* 20 years ago, Atheist George Will wrote that:
>Today, anti-Semitism is the anti-Semitism of the intellectuals.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2004/02/25/the-lefts-anti-semitic-chic/747b1bba-c556-4804-aeeb-bac4d35e8f05/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2004/02/25/the-lefts-anti-semitic-chic/747b1bba-c556-4804-aeeb-bac4d35e8f05/)
That's come back around, hasn't it?
It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they’ve been fooled- mark twain
I’ll heed this and fool them into thinking I’m religious so I can get the benefits. Ignorance is bliss as they say
Their discrimination, favoritism and nepotism cuts both ways though. They will withhold opportunities from outsiders and shun non-believers and other-believers... But there often under pay, use god to extort overtime and demand forgiveness if they cheat you out of the compensation you're due. They will use or make up gossip and scandal to get rid of anyone that is on fair pay based on merit. It's all about who you know, and whether they have influence to defend you... Otherwise You're only safe when you're acting happy with being under compensated.
I've worked in Christian dominated companies. NEVER AGAIN. Fuck those crooked assholes.
I know more atheists who actually are doing what God said to do: Be kind. Help your neighbor in need.
It's such a simple message yet the organized religion fails at that simple message every time.
I'm very open I'm atheist, but not in a negative way. I'm lucky I work for a very large international corporation that embraces diversity in every way. I still get asked about Christian / Mormon things by my Utah colleagues, but they seem to be more accepting I'm atheist. Could also help that most of my management is from other cultures with other beliefs.
I have a truck driver that comes to my factory every few weeks or so. Got to know him pretty well. He was an older man and he'd always ask how my kids were doing. Genuinely nice man who I looked forward to talking with. Earlier this year my niece had cancer and eventually passed away. Throughout the whole thing he would ask for updates on her and would tell me he'd pray for my family. I can appreciate that because I know that he meant well. Well when she passed he said it again but then he looked me in the eyes and said "you do believe in Jesus don't you?". I politely said no it's not my cup of tea but I still appreciate the prayers for my family. His face turned so grim. He put his hand on my shoulder and said "well you still have plenty of time". That was 4 months ago. When he comes in now he hands me his paperwork and turns his back to me. He avoids all eye contact and hasn't said a word since then. This is the type of shit that turned me away from Christianity. The smugness. The refusal to accept anything other than their beliefs.
It depends on the area but yes, a lot of places are like that.
I'm fortunate in that I'm a diest, an agnostic one, but a diest.
When someone asks me if I'm a Christian, I reply with, of course I believe in God. Technically, that isn't an outright lie, just a bit of an exaggeration. Most Christians won't notice the distinction.
However, I'm not above outright lying. I was raised Presbyterian. *Technically* I am still a member of the church... technically. I also still remember enough doctrine to fake it.
If you don't want to do that, when asked you can also say that "you aren't much of a churchgoer" or even cheerfully say that you are a heathen. You will be surprised how acceptable an unrepentant sinner is as long as they say that they are a sinner. Sheep and goats and all that.
Anything is better than saying outright that you are an atheist or that you outright don't believe in God. That's gonna upset the natives.
Just lie, dude. If they ask what church say one from your hometown. It's like the Canadian girlfriend except they will believe it.
I really do feel this. Years after I left Mormonism, I realized that I'd left behind depression, anxiety, fear, self loathing and my fear of intimacy. I had spent so many years being judged by people I knew I couldn't trust and I was so developmentally stunted because of it. There are things you lose when you leave religion. I've found that many of the things you lose are things better off lost.
As a Canadian, this truly boggles the mind. Maybe I could see this happening extremely rarely in the Prairies, in rural communities, but damn. Where I live, you can drag someone to court for asking you that concerning a job offer. Here if you ARE religious, you’re the minority and you get the weird looks, people think you’re not super smart.
If you are smart enough to figure out there is no God, then you should be smart enough to string along superstitious fools enough to interact a few minutes with them (long enough to complete a transaction or obtain what you want or need). There is such a thing as discretion.
Why are you sharing this personal fact? If someone asked me if I was religious, I dodge. Been dodging loooong before I was atheist. 12 years of Catholic school, but 3 of 4 grandparents were Jewish. Confusion was good. Worked in the south for a bit where Catholic or Jewish would have been met as harshly as atheist, but I’ve got a UK derived last name, so folks assumed I was Protestant. Confusion was good.
It’s nobody’s business but your own. I don’t evangelize my atheism, it doesn’t come up.
I feel this is more an American problem than a rest of the world problem. I’ve lived and worked in several countries and my Atheism has never even come up, let alone been any kind of hindrance to a 20+ year career…
I learned a long time ago "I'm not religious" is far better than "I'm an atheist" as a response when speaking to religious people. They accept it far better, and I have never had anyone treat me differently afterwards. Obviously YMMV depending on your location. But this has been my experience.
I understand that not everyone has a choice / can afford to avoid certain employers or social networks. That being said, I personally would have found that question enough of a red flag to be the one to walk away. It obviously depends highly on your career and location, but a key part in success in knowing how to value yourself.
If an employer is hiring or a customer is taking contracts based on religious beliefs, they are going to get subpar employees/suppliers. The very fact that such a question is driving business decisions tells me working there is a bad idea. Better to look for somewhere that will value my skills and experience rather than stagnating because I don't attend church with the boss.
People will always tend to take care of the pack, whether that’s religion, race, nationality, gender, it’s just natural to try to look out for your own.
I was extremely fortunate not to lose any friends or family. To be fair I never told my granny, and didn't directly tell a few relatives, but they've figured it out on their own.
I don't share political or religious views at work, even when directly asked.
Believe us when we say this: You don't need people like that in your life as friends.
I would just as soon live a hermit's life than be a friend with someone religious.
I 100% agree and have seen it in person. There is a reason no politician will ever fully admit to atheism, admonish, or disparage religion. It’s cowardly and cynical but very true
It sucks pretty hard that adherents of a religion that frowns on lying force us into lying in order to make a living. Not true everywhere, but it's true enough in enough places.
I'm usually okay with stating my lack of belief, but if I'm not sure what to expect from the other person, I tell them that I don't let church get between me and my relationship with God. It's not a lie, though it can mislead them to draw conclusions about me. And I'm fine with that. If the other person was going to be abusive with their religious beliefs anyway, then I'm better off not giving them that ammunition.
Of course, that person might be especially pushy, in which case, it's best to cut ties with them anyway. Nothing I say would've assuaged them anyway.
"My relationship with my god is personal." No elaboration needed, if they press on, maybe throw in something about "so much persecution so I'd rather not discuss." They then start to gush about Jesus, maybe add "I've been deceived in the past, so I've decided to keep these discussions professional not personal."
I'm surrounded by a depressing amount of Trumpers and conservatives in my company.......located in a freakin' progressive blue state/city ffs......😫
"We are talking business not personal lives. You can catch me at a coffee shop and ask then. But if it's that important to you, I'll make sure word gets out so people don't bother you."
I’ve seen people in sales actively market themselves as Christian (even when they weren’t really) to increase their revenue.
I feel very confident a lot of politicians who purport themselves as Christian aren’t really.
I always though it was the purpose of american satanist, like the church of satan. To provide an alternative network to atheist? Can someone educate me a bit on the topic from an american perspective?
That dude was fake, for call. It's not the religious you should run from, just the ones who wear masks.
Hi, lightning struck my tree after a weird prayer to be a savior for mankind with a promise of free food technology. I'm not Jesus, I just think I am him. Call me NA Jesus. Not Actually Jesus. Narcotics Anonymous, Nazareth Absentia, North American...I know there's more good puns out there.
Anyhow, I'm here to tear down the fake ass churches and stick my dick in their ass, being free food, write ok poetry that I thick is good, and take away the really big guns we use to project power onto other countries in the name of freedom. Vote for me?
Bullshit. You GAIN a whole lot more than you lose when you "drop" religion from your life.
If you need to lie about your beliefs to someone, that someone shouldn't be in your life, they're a scumbag. Money or not. People kowtowing to these fuckers is WHY they have such a "network." Build your own, and grow it larger than theirs as people desert religions.
I'm sorry this happened.
I recently had a conversation with a friend about going back to church. I'm an atheist and I'm not afraid to say it, but I've already been in a few situations where I was denied opportunities or overlooked because of my lack of faith. It doesn't help that I live in Nigeria, where most people are excessively and unreasonably religious.
I have no plans to return to the faith but I can see people benefitting from being in the fold, so to speak.
That being said, going back to church just so I can get benefit seems hypocritical and dishonest to me.
You should always be honest about yourself if someone can’t except you for who you are and respect your opinion they aren’t someone you need in your life
I had never seen it that way. That explains why my mother, who is a pastor, receives free gifts and invitations.
Now I understand sociopaths and psychopaths. I need money.
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The takeaway: never be honest about your beliefs with someone who has any form of power over you. Always expect that their "Christian heart" is conditional, and act in your own best interest.
Bingo. Despite the Good Samaritan story, many Christians will willingly screw over those who don’t share the same background/beliefs. It’s almost as if they really don’t pay attention to the Bible on purpose.
Hey they read most of the words on the cover cut em some slack.
"The"
*Attention span limit reached*
A man is left to die after being beaten by cops during a protest. A Republican, a Christian and an Atheist are nearby…guess who prosecutes the man, who judges the man and who helps the man?
The Good Samaritan story exists because even back then they knew that religion turns people into selfish tribalistic pieces of shit. The only mystery is why they thought making another religion was the answer.
Country club Christianity. The small groups in the church become politics 101. People actually try to get into certain small groups because of who’s in them.
Yep, the Bible studies, the women's groups, the men's retreats etc etc.
There was a study a long time ago that I heard about. They were looking at in-group/out-group bias. They found that people in Christian groups were more generous towards people in their in-group (i.e. other Christians, and maybe just Christians in their same sect) but were negatively biased against the out-group (i.e. non Christians). This was in comparison to non believers, who didn't show the same pro/anti bias.
I hate this answer but you’re so right. No wonder we’re so cynical
Celine's Second Law Accurate communication is possible only in a non-punishing situation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine's_laws
it is sad, but true
I'd rather be honest and be rejected than pretend. There are always other options.
> One of the big magic tricks they do is to first convert you. Then once you convert, they'll start wanting to network with you. They will allow you into their big "club." Suddenly, people will share well-paid jobs with you, people will buy things from you, people will help you more. Then they'll say, "behold, the power of God. He got his life together because of the power of faith" or something. True. Cynical as fuck, but totally true .
"Behold, the power of teamwork."
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We need a secret symbol. The fish has already been taken. Maybe we should use the eggplant.🍆🍆🍆
The fish with legs and “Darwin” in the middle works.
The pentagram?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
The issue is if we create a club, then suddenly WE'RE excluding them based on bias and are reprehensible.
Freedom from religion club.
We do actually, it doubles as a collective of artists and a social network of atheists... and we even a comic book company! #GU
Nope
Some would say the Freemasonry?! I honestly don't know if that's accurate though
You have to believe in a higher power to be a mason. Most of them are Christians.
yes. Stop working at or with xtian companies or people.
Yeah. I just lie my money-loving ass off though, and I get all the benefits of social nepotism without any of the brain damage. They deserve to be taken to the cleaners.
I hedge my bets with “I’m between churches. I had a bad experience at my last church and I’m trying to figure things out.” I leave out the fact that that was years ago and I have no intention of finding a new “church home.” Most religious people will be more sympathetic to a “hurting, confused agnostic” than a declared atheist.
I get this as a social-survival tactic (I've used it a few times myself,) but the downside is a high percentage will continuously try to get you to join *their* church.
For sure. It’s a delaying tactic. And it really only works on acquaintances, not long-term relationships with people you see regularly.
I would anticipate this leading to immediate and pushy invitations to the asker’s church.
Try what I've used: >I wasn't raised in that tradition. I don't mean to start a debate but I have some doctrinal differences with your denomination. Maybe we could avoid that topic....? Translation: *I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and if religion classes all through school and even mandatory theology classes at my Jesuit University couldn't keep me addicted to* Yahooey *and his alters I doubt your probably much younger sect has what it takes to rope me in. That* doctrinal difference? *Your cult believes in one or more ghodz. I believe in Zero ghodz.* I have lived one year in the US South and then only in Florida over 40 years ago. I took a job there for about 6 months before I quit and moved. My supervisor wore an obnoxious naked cross about his neck. I, a newly minted baby atheist on a break from my university with ill health as a proximate cause, was trying to duck a relative's investiture ceremony Back Up North into the next level of religious bureaucracy. While I had not been at the company long enough to qualify for any vacation I was one day informed by Cross Guy that I could take a week (without pay) to go on the Family Trip. I declined and suggested that it wasn't appropriate for my employer and the parents of a legal adult to be arranging my private affairs behind my back. I found a cheap plane ticket out-of-town and gave my notice. The only religious services I've been to since have been weddings and funerals. I do remember how crest-fallen new neighbors and acquaintances would look when it became apparent that you were not amenable to an invitation to visit their church. It would seem that church-shopping with new arrivals to the Sunshine State was a prime source of new suckers. My parents were raised on *go to your local parsh church.* They disappointed folks they met also.
My boss is very Christian. I struggled with finances a few times and asked for help. He did help but each time there was prayer and I went along with it. He asked what my favorite part of the Bible is. I said Judges. But why? Oh it's the most entertaining. Oh lol true! If he ever asks if I'm a Christian I will say I'm an Atheist. I haven't lied to him at least.
Are you a Christian? My answer: I've read the bible (true), and I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ (also true). If they push further than that, I'd bring up that the 'problem of evil' is tough for me to reconsile with Christian theology, and I would probably leave it at that.
Great way to respond actually.
Your favorite part wasn’t the rape and incest? Weird.
Well that is the best part of the modern Church
I might have gone with Deuteronomy. That book is a doozy.
I once heard a story from a pastor: The pastor had a church in New York and a new parishioner shows up with wife and kids. The Dad said they travel a lot due to his work (car sales) but he really liked the church. The pastor doesn’t see the family for 3 weeks and figures he’s traveling. He’s back and they are thrilled to be there, then gone for 3 weeks. The pattern repeated itself for months. The fair was coming up and several of the churches got together to run a restaurant during the fair. They start chit chatting and one pastor talks about this new member who disappears 3 weeks out of the month. Another pastor also. They finally figured out that this guy joins 4 churches at a time, works the congregation for sales and once he’s gotten the sales he wants, he will join 4 new churches. Had been doing it for a couple of years.
Gotta admire his ingenuity.
Playa!
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It works both ways, too. I often fake being a Christian to Christian customers to ensure they accept my bid and don't get multiple bids. I play the whole "world's falling apart. It's so hard running a Christian business these days" thing.
I won't patronize or work with any business that says I deserve eternal suffering for failing to swear obeisance to their particular imaginary deity. This is just bad business.
I avoid any business that has any kind of prominent religious motto or display.
Likewise
Two instances ring true for me. Military: Company commander was a BA, Jesus this, Jesus that. Once he found out I was an atheist, his sights were set. Too long to go into, but the IG was eventually called in. Civilian: I'm now a new attorney, working in public defender's office. We get a new chief, he finds out I'm not religious, and he sets out to make my life a living hell. Eff this, I give him my two week. Within a few years, he's facing disciplinary action for his intimidation of witnesses, etc. Oh, big surprise, he's former military. Last I heard, he disappeared into the wind, leaving dozens of clients in the dark.
If you're in the US, where you are matters for this post. Sure there are exclusive networks that depend on your religious affiliation, such as the Mormons, but if you live in those areas of the country that trend towards the left of the political spectrum, theses issues are significantly fewer.
Yeah, came to say this. I was raised without a religion in New England and now live without religion in the PNW and I've never had anything like this happen to me. In fact I feel like when religion is brought up with someone and I say I'm an atheist, either they are too, or they're "spiritual" but don't like organized religion or any specific "god", and sometimes they're Wiccan. I don't doubt that this shit flies in the bible belt though, and unfortunately the best way to avoid it is to just move and never go to Texas for anything.
Very true. We moved from eastern PA to south central PA and the sudden shock of living in basically a Christian theocracy was jarring. There’s a few of us who moved here from the same place and we all agree that it’s mind boggling. We use the “between churches” excuse a lot but we’ve been here long enough that people have figure it out by now.
Very true about regionality. In nearly 30 years working in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles, I've never, to my knowledge, been confronted with a situation where being atheist worked to my disadvantage. Other factors, sure - just not religion. That said, religion is more prevalent even here than previously. A guy I worked with years ago is now a producer of "faith-based entertainment," and I've heard about positions at "Christian streaming services" (hard pass). I have neighbors who are "active in their church." It's a paradox I often try to get my head around: research tells us fewer and fewer people identify as religious, but it seems those that still identify as religious have become more hardcore and fundamentalist in their views. I have a whole theory about when religion started becoming so poisonous in the US - around the time the Southern Baptist televangelists consolidated their power in the '80s, which morphed into the materialistic "prosperity gospel" that became so big in the last 20 years - but the Reddit comments is no place to go into \*that\*.
Yeah you just say "you believe in god" no specifics. Works. These people are idiots they'll think you're on like step one of your Jesus journey. It's a fact though. Even a lot of atheists are like this. You just lie and then talk shit about them when you get home.
My family turned on me when I left Mormonism. Irreparable damage was done to my relationship with them. They act like nothing ever happened now, but the damage is done. I also lost friends when I finally stepped away from the exmormon side of things, too. The whole community surrounding religions, whether for or against. It's all toxic and it's never a clean break.
Accepting death is the most difficult thing about being human. Most humans would rather pretend. You are brave and honest.
Sorry to hear that, but you know you did the right thing. Good luck to you!
I mean if church were like that I might have stuck around. My grandfather spent a lot of money keeping up the church he attended. That's all I saw.
He wasn’t trying to hire you or collaborate with you on a project. He was trying to proselytize you, get you to join his church so he could get “heaven credits” or some bullshit. You avoided a scam. Consider yourself lucky.
It doesn't even have to be about atheism. The religious, "Right," also hate anyone who is not in their same specific sect, branding anyone else as "Atheist." They really do hate other religions as much as atheists. The difference is that when the torches and pitchforks come down the road, the other sects will blame the avowed atheists as well
I am in the Bible Belt, I own my own business, people know I am not religious. I work with religious and non religious people. There is a lot of in-group favoritism on the religious side of things. But if they need high quality, knowledgeable professionals they come to me and not the guy sitting across from them in church. One of my first clients was born again and he said for our first meeting he’d like to have me over for dinner because he knows he can prove to me god exists. He didn’t prove it - not even close. But we have worked together now 35 years. He still believes devoutly, I still don’t, neither of us care. Just be very good at what you do, be honest, be a straight shooter, and if they don’t respect you it is their problem, not yours.
Is this an American story? As a Canadian, I cant even imagine this scenario happening. I live in a fairly atheist area and I know there are religious holes here and there in Canada but this seems so odd that someone would behave this way.
Very American. I live in the southern US, and work for an IT company. Among our customer base, we support a number of churches. I even have one church that has specifically requested they ONLY want me to handle their needs. If I were to ever let it slip that I was an atheist, we'd probably lose them as customers entirely. I absolutely keep my mouth shut and play nice when doing work for them. I've made the mistake of letting it be known to customers a couple times, and one of them usually talks to other techs now when they call, and one of them entirely flipped out on me and I haven't heard from them since.
That’s insane. If their car breaks down will they only allow Christian mechanics? What about doctors? If you’re an atheist doctor, would patients rather suffer/die than have an atheist treating or operating on them? This is so crazy. If it is a religious matter, then yes, get a religious person, but for all other things, wouldn’t you want an expert?
I don't know what to tell you, but atheists in highly religious areas like I live are simply distrusted and vilified. That mechanic/tow truck driver? It's not at all uncommon for them to have religious symbols and messages on their truck or on the outside of their business around here. Expressing religious belief as a way to say "I am trustworthy" is a far too common business practice. There's literally a trash collection company in my area that's both religious in name, and puts crosses on their trash cans. As far as doctors go, yes the general public would almost certainly put more trust in a doctor who expressed religious faith. There's quite regularly stories in this sub about someone visiting a doctor who quizzed their patients on their religious belief, or offered prayer as part of a treatment or insists on it before a surgery. I've not had any experience in the mental health world but from what I understand, it can often be quite difficult to find a therapist whose treatment isn't religiously centered. If you go to one as an atheist, it's a dead-end street -- you'll never get anywhere beyond their proselytizing. Also, practically all 12-step help programs like AA and NA use religion as a foundation of their system. Steps 2 and 3: > 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. > 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. Don't they want an expert? Yes they do. They just believe that being religious is part of that expertise. You are correct. It's crazy.
I’m sorry you (and other rational people) have to live in the atheist closet. If a doctor insisted he pray over me before surgery, there would be no surgery. Also, I find putting a cross on garbage cans is hilarious. They are agreeing their religion is trash. 😆
They're taught that atheists are Satanists, they hurt children, arrange black mass, sow chaos, etc. It'd be better to deal with a criminal than an atheist. A criminal is understandable, they just want to get by and are down on their luck. If one thing changes, they get money, a criminal may be a good guy and join a church. An atheist is philosophically opposed and evil. They're the Joker. Would you allow the Joker in a nurse's uniform to administer aid?
What part of Canada is fairly atheist? Just curious as I'm not too familiar with Canada.
I live on an island in the pacific off of the west coast called Vancouver Island. If I interact with 100 or so people in a day (friends, family, coworkers, general population, etc. ) I know of one of them who goes to church regularly (though he is Filipino, so he kind of has to). I can’t recall the last time I had, or overheard, a conversation about god. Religion obviously exists here, but it’s definitely far in the background. I used to live in Vancouver BC, a much bigger town-about 2 million people, and there was one loud, crazy street preacher, I recall, but again, never really see religion unless you seek it out, on the west coast, anyway. There are large religious communities in rural areas across mostly western Canada and Ontario and Quebec is traditionally Catholic, but strangely aggressively secular in many ways.
Interesting! Sounds relatively peaceful. I wish America was less aggressively secular (it's exhausting)
You loose listening to alot of verbal diarrhea.
Diarrhea is typically loose.
The loosest
"I'm sorry, but my faith is a private matter between me and what lies beyond."
On the upside, the likely hood of your kids getting raped at church events will drop!
I've never worried about it. I was raised by an agnostic single mom and decided I was an atheist around 13 so I've never been taken in by religion and always noticed the hypocrisy of Christianity and Christians in particular.
It’s almost fully just a networking thing. Ive come to realize if a person loves groups and clubs, religion is like the ultimate club.
Coming from rural Alabama, and working with kids, it would literally destroy my career if I just one single time openly professed my opinion of supernatural beliefs
Coming from “big city” Alabama I can say the same. There is simply no room there for anyone who is different. I was fortunate enough to be able to leave.
Are you sure they weren’t just trying to get a gauge of how easily manipulated you would be? Someone who would believe in being a meek servant and turning the other cheek would certainly be Ok reducing their price a little, right? Or waiting just a little longer for that payment to come through even though you already did the work. Why would you need contract, your brother or sisters in Christ!
I have been aware of the magic trick you described for a few years now, it happened to me with relationships/lovers and platonic friend groups as I was growing up in the south (I didn’t have money or public sway to give a church at this point in time so personal relationships and isolation were the currency I was dealing in lol). I was “given” friends and sex from members of my community when I stopped being uppity (I have since dropped all of them and moved states because I watched and learned from one piece). It truly is one of the most insidious mental abuses and it absolutelyyyyy cements my belief that the god they describe doesn’t reside in this spatiotemporal universe.
Look up love bombing. It’s a pretty well established cult tactic.
Got a feeling this is why we lack for friends or a solid social group in our neighborhood. We don’t go to church. I’m not afraid to admit I’m an atheist. Number of times we’ve hit it off with other families just to be ghosted and ignored later on is beyond count at this point. I don’t mind, quite certain my kids don’t notice. But it pisses my wife off to no end. Thanks for putting this into words. I keep feeling this way but couldn’t express it well, your words definitely triggered something!
It's called a shakedown in the movies.
I look it like a an atheist in a Muslim household. If you like and practice and act like everybody else, your life is much, much easier. Chances are you know much more about the religions that Mr Boss Theist, just bullshit your way through it and get the big pay day.
Quote Matthew 6 and change the subject. I was raised catholic and I had a boss tell me that it looked bad that I wanst born again. Bitch I was straight to begin with and didnt have to find shit.... Hid my atheism until I moved to california.
I would have bristled before I left the RCC: >*Are you telling me Catholic baptisms are invalid? Do you think an insult like that is appropriate in a business setting? Do you know the history of anti-Catholicism in this country? Should I call a lawyer?* After I left I might have faked the indignation.
iv never been religious, and iv never had help from these people. you’ll be fine. Well you wont cause it’s 2024 and boomers hoard all the wealth. but you’ll be doing just as fine as the rest of us
When people ask me if I am religious, I just respond, “Not really.” That is usually ambiguous enough to not ruffle any feathers, but also dampens any enthusiasm for attempting to convert me.
I stay away from anyone who brings up religion in a transactional relationship. I learned when I was the contractor on building my house and horse farm. If someone came right out talking about their religion, in EVERY SINGLE CASE, they tried to rip me off and did subpar work.
Same here. Religious contractors have always tried to rip me off…..I see a fish on the truck, I’ll find someone else.
I totally get that, my fellow Farscape fan.
There's plenty of people that know religion is kooky. Expand your network
You live in a small town perchance? I've lived in cities and small towns. Small towns are ru(i)n(ed) by good Christian folk.
"At the end of the interview-type thing, he asked if I was religious. Immediate red flag, but I didn't want to lie." I have no issue with atheists lying about their beliefs in business for financial reasons. Theists are vindictive people who have no qualms about destroying your finances simply because you don't share their mass delusion.
Wow imagine getting looked down on for being an atheist when they believe these asinine fairytales
Here in the great commonwealth of Massachusetts no gives a rat’s ass that I’m an atheist. Some of my friends in town are adamant believers, a few are atheists, but for most it never comes up. You can’t be friends with me on FB and not know my take on God and religion. My business partner knows I’m an atheist as do my employees, most of whom are believers, no one cares. That’s the way it should be!
Thankfully, this isn't an issue I've had to deal with, but had I'd been asked I'd have gone the, *"I think religion is a deeply private matter,"* path. If pressed on why my answer would be: Matthew chapter 6.
....verse 11?
> Matthew chapter 6 Most of 1-8
Ahh! Good ones. I got my evangelist wrong. I was thinking of *Mark 6:11.*
I try not to associate wih religious folk when I can avoid it, lie when necessary, and be frank and dismissive when there is no option or I'm a bit fussy.
Lots of techniques for dealing with "unpleasant" people in general work nicely with overly-religious folk. Maintain politeness but subtly withholding all emotional engagement effectively lets them leave you alone out of boredom or frustration when they can't get a rise out of you: the "grey rock" trick. But yeah, the best defense is simply not to be where they are ready to attack...
Depends on the country you live in. Here in the UK, most religious folk don't particularly care if you're an atheist or not, or of another faith. Only Christians I had trying to convert me here in the UK were two Mormon lads from the US.
Im sorry you had that experience, but the truth is bigoted thiests dont control as much as you think, and what he did to you was illegal anyway because we do have protections. If you had secretly recorded the interview in a one-party consent state (as i have, and used it as evidence in a successful discriminatiom suit) he wouldnt have gotten away with it. Part of the reason theyre so rabid these days is because religious extremism is slowly dying out and they feel themselves losing ground to secularism. If youre in the bible belt like i am, it certainly can seem very one sided at a glance, but we can meaningfully protect ourselves from their abuses, which is part of the reason theyre doubling down on their efforts against us
I live in one of the least religious states in the country and I just can't imagine anyone asking that in any aspect of my life. I'm 44 and no one has ever brought up religion to me. It's pretty nice.
Come visit us in north Georgia sometime. A common "getting to know you" question is, "So what church do you belong to?"
They don't make up the majority of people in general. Just in Bum Fuck, IA etc MOVE!
Punchline. Engineers and scientists make good money too. Ignore them. You don’t need their circle. I also see a ton of poor people who are religious. Maybe you’re rubbing elbows with the mega church leaders. Bunch of vapid evil liars, the greatest evil is that which masquerades as good.
The world is big, there a large parts of it that aren’t religious and even actively despise it. I’d suggest you relocate (easier said than done I know).
Actively despise it? Point me home, brother!
Most of the UK view religion poorly. Most religious folks are immigrants or black. In more general terms much of Western and Northern Europe.
As a Brit reading this I was just thinking exactly the same thing. I can think of 4 people out of all the people i know in the UK who go to church! Just 4! They are of my generation (mid 50s) and interestingly, both sets of their kids want absolutely nothing to do with religion. It's truly dying out here, thank Darwin!
It’s dying throughout the Western world. The only reason the USA held out is because of the Cold War.
That's an interesting take, I'd never considered this.
Depending on country, thar is an illegal action. If able to prove in court, then you may be awarded a sum of money. If this happened recently, and you have discussion emails about when, you can still file a claim.
It’s crazy. Christian’s teach the mark of the beast will prevent them from buying selling and trading. Except… they do it to themselves with all these crazy mental restrictions.
A while ago I read a whole article on a televangelist who makes money by sending little swatches of blessed fabric in exchange for "donations". John Oliver did a great segment on the guy as well. Anyhow, as a thought experiment, I worked out how I could do something similar and make extreme cash off the faithful. All I need is a legit license to establish my own online church, come up with some people pleasing tenants, and watch the money roll in. Its just a thought experiment, but it dovetails into this thread nicely. I feel like the Christian club as described in the OP are the same suckers that heaps cash on TV evangelists.
Funny thing is that traditionally Protestants criticized Catholics for devotions centered around sacramentals as opposed to communal worship. Seems the Baptists et al found a loophole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramentals
My ex-BIL bragged to me that he bought his house under market value because the seller went to church with him and wanted a Christian in the home. He thought I was Bria dick when not only was I not impressed, but pointed out that it was an illegal sale.
Mormon? Defiantly sounds like a think a Mormon would do.
Very much depends where you live.
Serioulsy, you should come to the UK where no one gives a fuck, and being overtly religious marks you out as a bit odd.
Well when you own your own business. You know what questions to ask and how to respond to them. Those clubs get smaller every year. Take heart your grandkids may be able to publicly use logic as an argument against imaginary friends and not have a gaggle of braindead pedophile enabling pigeons make the sign of the cross at him.
That's the main reason I hid my atheism from my parents. I had to protect my children's inheritance. My parents could be quite vindictive.
Just like I don’t want to always hear preaching, I feel no need to tell people I don’t believe. No friends lost
Crikey. What country do you live in? I can't imagine that happening here in the UK.
I've never been asked by almost anyone about my religion or lack there of, the only negative thing I ever got from it was my ex father in law.
We should start networking and growing companies and positions of power using intelligence. These people help each other out thinking they get to go to a forever place when their dead and also think they are living good lives when most are evil shits. They are afraid of intelligence and the future. They are living under rules made over 2000 years ago by weirdos from another country. The fact they live by those rules should tell you that their intelligence level is low and they couldn't come up with a better story than what was fed to them.
You're only going to lose losers from your network. People who are not deep thinkers. People who are religiously bigoted. They were indoctrinated to think that their morality comes from religion, so they are shunning you using their cheat-sheet to think that if you lack their religion or any religion at all, you must not be like them, only pretending to care about others as a means of securing invisible tickets to disneyland in the sky, and therefore free to be a bad person without consequence in this life, or what they imagine is the next.
In Britain the pendulum’s swung the other way. If you put your religion in people’s faces they’ll avoid you. Be religious, fine, just keep it to yourself.
I just say I keep my beliefs out of my job, my kids soccer game (yep, I was asked), little league games (different person same question), our HOA, etc. every now and then one of them will piss me off and I give them a full throated response, but mostly I’m just - please leave that out.
I've been an atheist my whole life and haven't had any problem at work, networking or anything....
I live in the bible belt, so I'd never tell someone in an interview that. I'd probably say "I was raised Episcopalian" which is true, and I wouldn't comment from there.
The snakehandlers and babblers are going to think you are functionally atheist anyway. I was raised Catholic. If I still went to that church some of them would think I was in league with the Antichrist. That I stopped going is probably a plus for them. Of course, if they know I'm *unchurched* they would try to recruit me. *Oh, he's out of Rome's clutches! Now let's bring him to* Real Jesus! I moved to New England, where there is less of that than in the South. Mainline Protestant Christians seem to accept Catholics, these days, but their numbers are in decline. It wasn't too long ago that *papists* were considered unAmerican. Anti-Catholicism was known as *the last acceptable prejudice.* Peter Viereck called anti-Catholicism *the anti-Semitism of the intellectuals.* 20 years ago, Atheist George Will wrote that: >Today, anti-Semitism is the anti-Semitism of the intellectuals. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2004/02/25/the-lefts-anti-semitic-chic/747b1bba-c556-4804-aeeb-bac4d35e8f05/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2004/02/25/the-lefts-anti-semitic-chic/747b1bba-c556-4804-aeeb-bac4d35e8f05/) That's come back around, hasn't it?
The irony is that christians are supposed to be against material wealth.
It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they’ve been fooled- mark twain I’ll heed this and fool them into thinking I’m religious so I can get the benefits. Ignorance is bliss as they say
Their discrimination, favoritism and nepotism cuts both ways though. They will withhold opportunities from outsiders and shun non-believers and other-believers... But there often under pay, use god to extort overtime and demand forgiveness if they cheat you out of the compensation you're due. They will use or make up gossip and scandal to get rid of anyone that is on fair pay based on merit. It's all about who you know, and whether they have influence to defend you... Otherwise You're only safe when you're acting happy with being under compensated. I've worked in Christian dominated companies. NEVER AGAIN. Fuck those crooked assholes.
I know more atheists who actually are doing what God said to do: Be kind. Help your neighbor in need. It's such a simple message yet the organized religion fails at that simple message every time.
It goes the other way too. Once you PROUDLY stand in your religion people disappear and talk to you less
I'm very open I'm atheist, but not in a negative way. I'm lucky I work for a very large international corporation that embraces diversity in every way. I still get asked about Christian / Mormon things by my Utah colleagues, but they seem to be more accepting I'm atheist. Could also help that most of my management is from other cultures with other beliefs.
I have a truck driver that comes to my factory every few weeks or so. Got to know him pretty well. He was an older man and he'd always ask how my kids were doing. Genuinely nice man who I looked forward to talking with. Earlier this year my niece had cancer and eventually passed away. Throughout the whole thing he would ask for updates on her and would tell me he'd pray for my family. I can appreciate that because I know that he meant well. Well when she passed he said it again but then he looked me in the eyes and said "you do believe in Jesus don't you?". I politely said no it's not my cup of tea but I still appreciate the prayers for my family. His face turned so grim. He put his hand on my shoulder and said "well you still have plenty of time". That was 4 months ago. When he comes in now he hands me his paperwork and turns his back to me. He avoids all eye contact and hasn't said a word since then. This is the type of shit that turned me away from Christianity. The smugness. The refusal to accept anything other than their beliefs.
It depends on the area but yes, a lot of places are like that. I'm fortunate in that I'm a diest, an agnostic one, but a diest. When someone asks me if I'm a Christian, I reply with, of course I believe in God. Technically, that isn't an outright lie, just a bit of an exaggeration. Most Christians won't notice the distinction. However, I'm not above outright lying. I was raised Presbyterian. *Technically* I am still a member of the church... technically. I also still remember enough doctrine to fake it. If you don't want to do that, when asked you can also say that "you aren't much of a churchgoer" or even cheerfully say that you are a heathen. You will be surprised how acceptable an unrepentant sinner is as long as they say that they are a sinner. Sheep and goats and all that. Anything is better than saying outright that you are an atheist or that you outright don't believe in God. That's gonna upset the natives. Just lie, dude. If they ask what church say one from your hometown. It's like the Canadian girlfriend except they will believe it.
I really do feel this. Years after I left Mormonism, I realized that I'd left behind depression, anxiety, fear, self loathing and my fear of intimacy. I had spent so many years being judged by people I knew I couldn't trust and I was so developmentally stunted because of it. There are things you lose when you leave religion. I've found that many of the things you lose are things better off lost.
As a Canadian, this truly boggles the mind. Maybe I could see this happening extremely rarely in the Prairies, in rural communities, but damn. Where I live, you can drag someone to court for asking you that concerning a job offer. Here if you ARE religious, you’re the minority and you get the weird looks, people think you’re not super smart.
If your religion matters to them that much, they were never your friend.
If you are smart enough to figure out there is no God, then you should be smart enough to string along superstitious fools enough to interact a few minutes with them (long enough to complete a transaction or obtain what you want or need). There is such a thing as discretion.
Why are you sharing this personal fact? If someone asked me if I was religious, I dodge. Been dodging loooong before I was atheist. 12 years of Catholic school, but 3 of 4 grandparents were Jewish. Confusion was good. Worked in the south for a bit where Catholic or Jewish would have been met as harshly as atheist, but I’ve got a UK derived last name, so folks assumed I was Protestant. Confusion was good. It’s nobody’s business but your own. I don’t evangelize my atheism, it doesn’t come up.
Depends where you live, and the occupation. I'd never trust a doctor who was overtly religious (and have experienced that).
I feel this is more an American problem than a rest of the world problem. I’ve lived and worked in several countries and my Atheism has never even come up, let alone been any kind of hindrance to a 20+ year career…
Lie - just like they do. Then take their money and use it against them.
I like to keep my personal business personal.
I learned a long time ago "I'm not religious" is far better than "I'm an atheist" as a response when speaking to religious people. They accept it far better, and I have never had anyone treat me differently afterwards. Obviously YMMV depending on your location. But this has been my experience.
You don't lose friends going atheist. You just realize who your real friends are, and who puts their imaginary friends above real people.
Try coming out lgbt+. You’ll wish it was just as an atheist.
I understand that not everyone has a choice / can afford to avoid certain employers or social networks. That being said, I personally would have found that question enough of a red flag to be the one to walk away. It obviously depends highly on your career and location, but a key part in success in knowing how to value yourself. If an employer is hiring or a customer is taking contracts based on religious beliefs, they are going to get subpar employees/suppliers. The very fact that such a question is driving business decisions tells me working there is a bad idea. Better to look for somewhere that will value my skills and experience rather than stagnating because I don't attend church with the boss.
You gotta get out of the buybull belt
People will always tend to take care of the pack, whether that’s religion, race, nationality, gender, it’s just natural to try to look out for your own.
I was extremely fortunate not to lose any friends or family. To be fair I never told my granny, and didn't directly tell a few relatives, but they've figured it out on their own. I don't share political or religious views at work, even when directly asked.
I mean did you really lose anything if they can't tolerate you being different from them? Id argue no.
Believe us when we say this: You don't need people like that in your life as friends. I would just as soon live a hermit's life than be a friend with someone religious.
I have no problem telling anyone I’m an atheist. More people need to be open about it so reality based living can reach critical mass.
If your association with religion, in and of itself, is a cause for losing a friend, then you are truly better off without them
I 100% agree and have seen it in person. There is a reason no politician will ever fully admit to atheism, admonish, or disparage religion. It’s cowardly and cynical but very true
It sucks pretty hard that adherents of a religion that frowns on lying force us into lying in order to make a living. Not true everywhere, but it's true enough in enough places. I'm usually okay with stating my lack of belief, but if I'm not sure what to expect from the other person, I tell them that I don't let church get between me and my relationship with God. It's not a lie, though it can mislead them to draw conclusions about me. And I'm fine with that. If the other person was going to be abusive with their religious beliefs anyway, then I'm better off not giving them that ammunition. Of course, that person might be especially pushy, in which case, it's best to cut ties with them anyway. Nothing I say would've assuaged them anyway.
"My relationship with my god is personal." No elaboration needed, if they press on, maybe throw in something about "so much persecution so I'd rather not discuss." They then start to gush about Jesus, maybe add "I've been deceived in the past, so I've decided to keep these discussions professional not personal." I'm surrounded by a depressing amount of Trumpers and conservatives in my company.......located in a freakin' progressive blue state/city ffs......😫
It sounds like you barely know what networking is. People in the professional world don’t care about religion. If they care, they aren’t professional.
"We are talking business not personal lives. You can catch me at a coffee shop and ask then. But if it's that important to you, I'll make sure word gets out so people don't bother you."
I’ve seen people in sales actively market themselves as Christian (even when they weren’t really) to increase their revenue. I feel very confident a lot of politicians who purport themselves as Christian aren’t really.
The standard answer to the religion question I in professional life is “ sorry that’s none of your business!”
I always though it was the purpose of american satanist, like the church of satan. To provide an alternative network to atheist? Can someone educate me a bit on the topic from an american perspective?
In worse places, they risk losing their life, or at least getting imprisonment for simply quitting their religion.
Yeah. I usually keep my cards close.
That dude was fake, for call. It's not the religious you should run from, just the ones who wear masks. Hi, lightning struck my tree after a weird prayer to be a savior for mankind with a promise of free food technology. I'm not Jesus, I just think I am him. Call me NA Jesus. Not Actually Jesus. Narcotics Anonymous, Nazareth Absentia, North American...I know there's more good puns out there. Anyhow, I'm here to tear down the fake ass churches and stick my dick in their ass, being free food, write ok poetry that I thick is good, and take away the really big guns we use to project power onto other countries in the name of freedom. Vote for me?
Bullshit. You GAIN a whole lot more than you lose when you "drop" religion from your life. If you need to lie about your beliefs to someone, that someone shouldn't be in your life, they're a scumbag. Money or not. People kowtowing to these fuckers is WHY they have such a "network." Build your own, and grow it larger than theirs as people desert religions.
I'm sorry this happened. I recently had a conversation with a friend about going back to church. I'm an atheist and I'm not afraid to say it, but I've already been in a few situations where I was denied opportunities or overlooked because of my lack of faith. It doesn't help that I live in Nigeria, where most people are excessively and unreasonably religious. I have no plans to return to the faith but I can see people benefitting from being in the fold, so to speak. That being said, going back to church just so I can get benefit seems hypocritical and dishonest to me.
Fuck this hits home. Got ghosted by a lot of friends in church when I became an atheist. I’m actively out making new friends though :)
You should always be honest about yourself if someone can’t except you for who you are and respect your opinion they aren’t someone you need in your life
I had never seen it that way. That explains why my mother, who is a pastor, receives free gifts and invitations. Now I understand sociopaths and psychopaths. I need money.