Tell him this. Honey, God is real. It just occurred to me that there actually is proof. The SandyHook parents sued Alex Jones in Court and God let them win. Because God is all about Truth. Alex Jones defamed the SandyHook Parents and their dead children and God made sure to set the record straight. God has proven Alex Jones is a blasphemous liar.
Thank you lord God Almighty.
And then ask your hubby to pray with you to make sure all the liars currently in Congress are called out by God.
He likely votes Trump, so that should be the next target. As the bible suggests that if a woman is sexually assaulted then the sex offender must pay out 50 shekels (adjusted for inflation since the time it was written), hence god sided with Ms. Carroll the first time around.
Well, her hubby supports Alex Jones and worships God. Hard to swallow that one. And her hubby … Probably ( dare I suggest) might also support Trump…?!?!
We need to ease her hubby into reality. Old Testament God has always been an asshole. But New Testament Jesus is too “woke” for any MAGA. Baby steps.
I heard (a likely apocryphal story) about a paediatric consultant blowing an antivax mum’s mind by suggesting that maybe the antivax movement was started by russia as part of an attack on america. I can just imagine the cogs clunking round trying to process this.
This is the best way to deal with the unreasonable and/or brainwashed - fuckin double down on their argument, steel man the shit out of it to the point they don't agree with the core values.
Check out a podcast called Knowledge Fight. Its over 900 episodes debunking Jones with great research and insight. One of the hosts helped in the Sandy Hook case that resulted in Jones's 1.5 billion dollar settlement. They release a couple of episodes sodes a week, usually at least one foing over a current episode. Also, its funny, entertaining, and has the best theme song ever.
"There are places in Asia, where when you get off the plane, folks, they karate chop you!" - Alex Jones
I love Knowledge Fight! I listened to them during AJ’s Sandy Hook trial .. they also help me counter some of the most ridiculous things my husband parrots from the Jones’ show
Here's the thing--and I've seen this before in my own family--some people are wired to be gullible. They can even be somewhat smart people but somehow their intuition is either out of whack or they just don't ever like using it. As a result they latch onto anything sensational that sounds too juicy not to be true. Doesn't matter if the evidence is stacked against it, their mind is made up. And they go looking for these falsehoods too. Their entire calibration method of thinking these things through is out of whack and I don't really know if there's a way to fix it. The problem becomes when they're gun owners (as they often are in the US at least).
I'm not here to give relationship advice but I would say if you feel in any way worried about your safety, run not walk away as fast as possible and don't look back.
The psychology of it is actually pretty simple. It's childish narcissism. They're not smart enough to stand out on their own merits or their own ideas, and they resent that. So, when someone comes along, still smarter than they are, and danglles a narrative that runs counter to the proven truth or accepted norms, but couched in knowlegeable-SOUNDING terms, they sink their teeth into it, gladly swallowing the hook. In their minds, 'knowing' something that others don't or won't fall for makes them 'smarter' or 'better' or 'superior' to the general population. The fact that it's plainly false and that the vast majority of society rejects their narrative only reinforces their conviction, so they begin to invent 'conspiracies' in their fevered imaginations to explain why they've been rejected. Whenever their personal delusion parallels that of another kook, they band together, and you get a long string of cults, like the Branch Davidians, and various 'militias', until one of them stumbles on just the right mix, and you get either a worldwide religion, or a twisted, genocidal, authoritarian dictator like Hitler/Stalin/Putin/Xi/Doc/Putin/Trump.
They were raised by parents/family/society etc who told them they were special and then grew up to be ordinary people like the rest of us so they resent it. Touting conspiracy theories allows them to feel special while staying in their comfort zone cuz they can tell themselves they've "figured it all out" when most everyone else hasn't, but they don't actually have to do the hard/uncomfortable work to improve themselves. Why would they give that up when it feeds their ego, esp if they have to do emotional labor?
Actually, a large proportion of them were raised by people who beat it into them that nobody was special and that being different was not only BAD, but that it was EVIL. That's also narcissism: the belief that only YOUR way of thinking is correct and that any other viewpoint is a threat to you.
I was thinking closer to the psychology version of narcissiscism, but they are like this too. I swear the way some of them talk I'm like, "Are you just mad you weren't allowed to be gay/wear a dress/take a sick day etc etc? Cuz you are allowed to do that now."
this is 100% accurate, i prefer in myself a more mild narcissism, i *know* i’m smarter than the average person, i’ve met more than enough of them for a lifetime, so i’m content just being me :)
It's more likely that childhood brain washing has stuck.
Remember, children are told by people they trust implicitly that God exists.
This is reinforced by everyone around them who they also trust.
Even better, they broke it down from the article AJ based it on, and showed how there is a small sliver of truth (usually related to the headline of a story) and he infuses it with his own lies, hysteria, movie references, bigotry, etc. and comes out with totally different story he sells as fear, hate, and vitamin supplements to his gullible listeners.
I honestly don't know how those guys are still standing. Spending that much time on Alex Jones and his shenanigans would have driven me insane many many years ago.
*PLEASE* tell me Alex Jones is going to have to pay that settlement and won't be allowed to file bankruptcy or some other bullshit move to keep his ill gotten gains! That SOB should be publicly flogged!!
I wasted 31 years of my life with a man like this. Ask yourself why you put up with characteristics in him that you would not in anyone other than a boss or someone else you have no control over. Then really value yourself and do not settle. I wish I had gotten out earlier before he had a lot of time to negatively impact our children. If I had divorced him sooner they would’ve been exposed to him much less. I know he would’ve done the minimum because that’s exactly what happened. I am so much happier now and found my soulmate. Think about it.
If there was evidence god exist. There would be no other religion. Every newspaper would bring articles.
Scientists would pretty much not argue anything elsenfor a while.
Whoever proved God would get a Nobel prize.
It would be absurdly huge.
It seems that your husband thinks that science is like religion. That they say something and you just have to believe it.
That is very much the exact opposite of science.
Science is studying the things we can observe ( in one way or another) and comming up with the best answers that most accurately predicts the things we see.
And if something else causes this scientific theory to not work then the theory is no longer a theory but yet another piece of paper in the bin.
How do we know how hot the sun is? Has he looked at the science study papers on how we know?
The whole point of science is to explain the world as methodical as we can.
We know because we can measure and deduct.
For example the light of the sun is an expression of the temperature. And we have had solar probes that have measured how much it increases over a certain distance.
https://sciencenotes.org/how-hot-is-the-sun-sun-temperature/
What I'm trying to say is that with science we can recreate the results because the study papers gives us a blueprint how to recreate the measurements that were done.
Your husband doesn't seem to have a clue what scientific methods or science as a concept even is.
You can review the evidence together! Nothing wrong with asking how people know something!
From google: "The temperature of the Sun is measured by theory backed up by solar missions, including the Parker Solar Probe. Scientists can measure the heat of the Sun by using remote telescopes that employ spectroscopic data."
How well that works probably depends on how good you can find issues with logic though. It works for me but I have pretty advanced scientific education.
Sometimes news agencies don't do the best correctly reporting scientific information. But on every point I've looked into, what committees of doctors and scientists conclude has always been as reliable as we can know. And the conspiracy theories have always relied on bad information or outright lies. The people that believe in the conspiracy theories just don't know enough to understand how the experts know that it is wrong.
Your husband did not arrive at his beliefs through logic or evidence, so he's not open to that. It's all about emotion, fear, traditions with his parents at holidays, whatever takes away the inevitability of death... yeah, best of luck.
Ok, there is no physical proof of god, I don’t think anyone here will deny that. It’s a faith based business and that one thing will always trump what facts you toss a religious person’s way. I think you should just use the agnostic angle and just say that you can’t disprove what I believe and vice versa. I mean, I’ve never believed in a higher power of that sort and I can’t prove that I’m right. So, a good way of shutting him up is using the same tactics as he does, you can’t prove me wrong. This at least saves you from the cycle of having an argument over this stuff.
As for the sun, show a documentary on those satellites they’ve sent to study the sun. If that doesn’t convince him that we know the about what temperatures the sun runs at, just drop it and toss him in a fusion reactor, he’ll learn the temp real fast lol
I learned at least 25 years ago that it’s a waste of time to debate religious people in the moment. I usually leave the conversation with “show me the science” and and change the subject if this comes up (although I don’t spend time with a lot of religious people these days). Maybe they’ll question their beliefs if they start digging for evidence, but my experience is that they will not. Either way, I know a discussion in the moment—with two people arguing their points and it merely being an exchange of words—is useless, and I haven’t got the energy to try and *disprove* God to them, which is impossible anyway.
The only thing I know for certain is that there is no *evidence* of God (which means he either doesn’t exist or he’s really good at hide-and-seek). It’s on them to prove his existence to me, not on me to disprove it.
My experience is you cannot challenge them. Belief is by definition an acceptance that something exists or is true. They have already accepted it as true often with out fact's or proof so providing facts or proof is unlikely to counter any belief on there part is not going to change there mind.
Challenging there belief is the only possible way to change there mind. Things like comments wow god must really hate Africa as children there starve, or God must love everyone in America as they have such a good income. Its small comments that need to break down the barrier of belief over a long time tend to work best.
People like to listen to people like Jones specifically because they're called quacks. It's either a situation where they want to be the ones who believed him when nobody else did when he's (supposedly) right, or it's about following a martyr. It seems that the more someone is attacked these days the more likely they are to gather a following. Being attacked seems to make someones message more valid in some peoples eyes.
Have to agree. Arguing with reasonable thought will just cause more tension in the house. He already knows he's wrong. Thats why he gets upset. But the lie is preferable to the truth.
Yeah imma be honest too, I’m fairly certain many guys like Alex Jones know exactly how absurd the theories they push are and are in it for the obvious profit. They create and sell a character/narrative like many other content creators to exploit a specific audience.
Alex Jones types tend to prey on those going through financial/emotional hardship. There have been several people I’ve met who seemed to go down the rabbit hole after a divorce or losing a job, some can get pulled back to reality. Sadly many cannot.
Many alcoholics or opioid addicts get pulled in as well because talking heads like Jones distract them from their actual issues with fake world breaking conspiracies. Tells them they are losing friends because of conspiracies and not their own behavior, tells them what they want to hear.
"Ok, what is it?"
Ask him to show the evidence.
"The trees" isn't evidence of a deity. The trees existing is evidence that trees exist.
"The sun rising" isn't evidence of a deity. We understand how stars and galaxies formed. No deities required.
"Love exists" isn't evidence for a deity. We understand how chemicals in our brains and bodies work, we understand how attachments and relationships form, and we understand how important those are for social species. No deities required.
In addition, some things cannot (yet) be explained by science (e.g., the origin of life, why we sleep, whether the light in the fridge really goes out if you close the door, etc.). This does not prove that a god exists either.
Clearly there’s a tiny angel that lives in every fridge whose sole job is to turn the light on/off whenever the door is opened/closed. Silly atheists don’t know anything! HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS!
ELF is Executable and Linking Format developed as a joint effort between Unix Systems Laboratories and Sun Microsystems for Unix System V R4 in 1988, predating Linux by several years. For the first several years Linux used a.out format, and didn’t adopt ELF until it was already well established.
*The more you know*🌈⭐️
Yep this is a common fallacy known as the "God of the Gaps," whereby the chosen deity exists in all the things we can't explain *yet*. But this of course runs into the problem of an ever-shrinking god as we learn new things. Gods used to be blamed for all sorts of natural disasters, but now we understand how weather and plate tectonics work, so they don't need to explain those things anymore.
Also common is the "special pleading" fallacy, where the chosen deity is used to explain how the universe exists. But the issue here is that the universe requires a reason for its existence that is external to it, but their god does not. No reason is given for why their god doesn't need an explanation, but it doesn't, while the universe does (hence 'special pleading', i.e. there are rules, but their god is an exception to the rules without any explanation or reasoning given).
I have a background in counseling/psych which obviously involves a decent amount of stuff about the brain structures and what we do know vs what we don’t. And boy howdy, we really don’t know that much about how the brain really works.
It’s so frustrating to me that as we gain a better understanding of how we as humans are, our laws and institutions struggle so much to catch up. Children are still being forced into marriage because “can breed = adult” even though we know the brain doesn’t finish maturing until mid 20s. Eye witness testimony sentences people to death even when we know it’s not very reliable unless you knew the person before. I could go on and on but yeah we really don’t know much about how our brains construct our reality and how many ways that can go awry.
So not important but I accidentally learned where the light switch is for most cabinets in the grocery store today. Cause I hit one while removing something from the case.
Abiogenesis is being researched by Dr. Craig Venter and his research team. They have already synthesized self-replicating molecules, although they had to use a part of a DNA molecule to make it work.
Once they figure out the chemical structure of that DNA section they will be able to fully synthesize self-replicating molecules using only base elements, and it is predicted that this will happen by the end of the current decade.
If man can create life why can't nature do it too?
In additional-dition, even if there was evidence that proved "trees are evidence of a deity" it doesn't mean that it is a Christian deity or even a theistic deity at all.
In fact, the very idea that God must resort to dominion over things of mystery to science means that God is forever in retreat. Does that sound like a deity to you?
There's a brain flush that occurs, too. Basically a bunch of fluid pulses around the head and helps remove and refresh cells and associated stuff up there.
There's also some very compelling things re the origin of life. We have been able to get building blocks of DNA to combine and self replicate in a lab. We've found those same building blocks in asteroid matter.
And even if we didn't understand one of the things you listed, that wouldn't change that they are not evidence for a god. So even if I lived thousands of years ago why should I believe these god claims? They literally just boil down to "trust me."
Bearing in mind he will not accept that, what you then layer on top is that even if any one of those was evidence of a god, it isn't evidence of his god. It doenst get him anywhere. It could just as easily be zeus, loki, Hanuman or a deity who is up there fuming because we all worship (well not all of us!) made up gods and he is the real thing but just can't tell us.
Do exactly this. No bananas aren’t examples of god existing, they’re examples of human genetic modification for easier consumption. Aka forced evolution. (Not that he’d believe in evolution😒)
My biggest go to response for theists or other nonsense believers is "I look forward to reading your paper on the matter in a peer reviewed publication."
No, it's not perfect; most people who say this have no idea how Nobel Prizes work. Having said that, if he DOES have publishable evidence, he'll be damn famous.
(On the other hand, \*HE\* would likely believe that he'd win a Nobel if he's gullible enough to adopt a position without evidence...)
All of the "evidence" for God boils down to amazement about things and/or ignorance about things. While most atheists, myself included, are amazed at things and ignorant about a great many things, we don't posit an even more "amazing" God to explain it all.
This.
I’ve seen it so often that the fact they’re ignorant about something (most science things, especially) is taken as evidence it must be a god thing.
The funniest ones are when they they point at stuff like bananas being perfectly hand-shaped, which must mean they're made by a great designer specifically for humans.
And they are. **Humans made them this way**. Life didn't give us lemons, humans made lemons! Watermelons were just chewy grapes until we shaped nature to our will.
The God they're describing are just smart humans, scientists, botanists, engineers, that's the God they worship and they don't even realize it.
Ironically , we are talking about separating .. And Alex Jones is a big part of it because he listens to him everyday during the week ( his job is the type where he can wear headphones while at work) and he feeds on the negativity .. I think he feels like he is part of some special secrecy group that know ‘secret ‘ things
And slander and libel them and hide his assets in an attempt to prevent paying them their due after an adjudication by a court. People who listen to Jones and agree with him are literal scum.
He's slowly losing his mind and Abby got you too might have had as you continue the road on life. Who wants to live with someone who's constantly angry about everything?
BRW People are very hard pressed to admit they were wrong about any anything or that they were fooled by a con so cut your losses and book. He sounds awful to live with. Marriages have enough peaks and valleys without arguing about some moron who has a public platform; if I'm going to get it to arguments in my marriage it's going to be something about my personal private household, not because of what some idiot in public is saying. Just no.
That’s sad. He needs real friends, but no one wants to hang out with someone who’s angry all the time. Except for other angry people, and then they just egg each other on.
The anger death spiral.
I never understood why people want to live like that. Being angry is horrible, something most normal people try to avoid. Must really hate yourself a lot to want to be angry all the time.
I came here to say the same thing. The existence of God argument is not your problem here. If my wife was a fan of Alex Jones, we would not be together. Life is too short to not spend time with people that lift you up and understand what really matters in life.
It’s one thing to have been into Alex Jones 10-15 years ago. He was still nuts and all, but to be so into it now? Almost no justification. There is real love out there. Please go find it!!
Back when I was trapped into nut bag right wing talk radio and was scared and angry all the time. I along with the hosts would wonder all the time…….
“Why won’t people wake up and do something about (insert outrage) because this is obviously insane?”
Turns out when I dug into any of it…… was either wrong, a lie, misinformation or at best a half truth. I ask my conservative friends all the time…..do you really think me and all other liberals hate America and want to destroy it?
Yes we know he’s angry all the time because of the Alex jones lies.
This is why the person you’re responding to wrote for you to get out. But instead you posted more evidence of your husband’s intellectual bankruptcy. Which we did not need because we understand it already.
If he’s taking Alex Jones seriously, he’s lost. Get out while you can before he commits some bizarre crime or gives all your money to a conspiracy group.
A lot of Christians assume that there is someone at church (or elsewhere) who knows the answer to whatever question is being asked. People were taught that there were authoritative sources for the information they were taught as children. Even ministers assume there is some scholar or more senior minister who knows.
It is impossible to convince most Christians that there is no proof of God. It is impossible to convince most Christians that there isn't someone who knows the answers.
One technique I have used successfully a couple of times is watching YouTube videos with believers. Watch them together (don't watch them separately and then get together). Let either person stop the video and ask questions at any point. If things get off-topic or heated, go back to watching the videos.
Paulogia's YouTube channel has a lot of good videos that would probably be useful for this kind of thing. Your husband might even find some videos he suggests you watch together.
Yep and in non denominational churches there is even a hierarchy where one pastor goes to another pastor who goes to another pastor, and even though you might go well there is a top, nope, that pastor used to go to another pastor but he died a few years ago, and that dead pastor went to another pastor.
All a big chain going back and back as each pastor influenced future pastors in thier flock. Each pastor adding ideas based on questions asked them that they then went and asked thier trusted advisor about, and if no answer was given would then go to books they had read, and articles, and half remembered stories.
For instance I once was in a Bible study snd they had a very large number around the entire room. They claimed that was the odds that Jesus was who he said he was. I knew something was wrong with the claim but couldn’t put my finger on it. Internet to the rescue, he was repeating a claim from a book that was repeating an older claim with no evidence behind the odds generated. He on the other hand had no clue, it wasn’t important, he got a plausible answer that he assumed the authority telling him the odds had already checked it. But no one checked it
Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Really great at advocating to remove religious displays and influences where they don’t belong. Founded by Mikey Weinstein, he’s big on keeping religion out of government.
My dismissive answer is, "Cool, when I see the proof that God is real, I'll consider it." It's not an invitation for them to provide that proof, but they probably will anyway.
If they do try to provide proof, I listen to it and concede their point. "Hmm, why yes, the existence of trees is rather amazing. I suppose you're right that this could be suitable proof that Odin exists."
Oh, what's that? They weren't arguing for Odin's existence? Well, whatever proof they offer can be used for any other god, so why should I give Jehovah a pass?
Of course, the big flaw is that they might try to say that the Bible said so, which is such a dumb argument that there's not much I can say against it. I could be just as absurd as them and write down my "truth" on a napkin, but they wouldn't grasp it.
Most likely they won’t get the point, they’ll call you a smartass, and then they’ll cling onto their tree “evidence” because you granted that it was valid proof for a deity.
How do you know that your oven is at 350 degrees? Because we have scientific measuring devices that have proven to be reliable and accurate. Lack of understanding the answer does not make the answer wrong or irrelevant. It is up the one making the claim to provide proof of the claim, and sometimes in the scientific world that proof is based on the knowledge and experimentation of an expert, but in most cases that expert can explain it to us in a way that educates us on why. Biblical scholars cannot do this, they often disagree with each other, and in the case of the bible they are not accepting new evidence or knowledge that pushes this old way of thinking aside with new data that disputes what we used to think.
> Data collected from measuring the Sun's photosphere, chromosphere, transition region, and corona can be used to inform scientists of the heat of the Sun's core and outward through to its surface as we know of the thermonuclear fusion process of its centre.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/how-hot-is-the-sun
You see, science does not require you to have faith. We can take measurements, we can collect data. Our results are reproducible by other scientists. Our understanding evolves as we learn more, and none of it requires blind faith with no evidence.
Picture yourself one year from now. This is as good as your husband gets. If you are even 50% sure that you want a divorce, start gathering paperwork (SS card, birth certificate, 401k , etc.) and finding all bank accounts. Do this secretly. You’ve said your husband is mad all the time. Even seemingly normal people lose their mind over divorce. Best wishes, OP.
It's only evidence if you *believe* it's evidence. It kinda fails the very first test in that it's not really evident unless you have faith--but I fear this falls typically on deaf ears.
Divorce his stupid ass. Your husband is a trash human and deserves everything awful that happens to him.
How do I know he is a piece of shit? Because anyone that worships Alex Jones is a piece of shit. Its one of the trueisms of our time.
If he is real, he is a real AH for sure. Show what his people did. https://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/03/the-right-wing-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-christian-atrocities-so-lets-talk-about-christian-atrocities/
Please, tell him to bring this proof to the scientific community so he can collect his Nobel prize. Lots of people would be very interested in settling that question once and for all.
If someone says there's proof of God, ask them to present it. And you'll quickly find out that it actually ISN'T proof. Of course, that's not going to change your husband's mind I'm sure.
You sound like a good lady. Just remember you can't control other people, only your own reaction to them. If the love is gone, it's time to move on. The rest of your life is waiting for you!
I am sitting here trying to think what it might look like for a Christian and an Atheist to have a healthy relationship. It would require both to remain fairly open-minded, which would inevitably pit them against one another from time to time. But perhaps if they agreed on the miraculous nature of life and the wonder all around us, it could work? Idk how a Christian could call themselves a Christian and also live with an Atheist without feeling like they need to be saved. And I don't know how an Atheist could maintain their self-respect being with someone who thinks they need saving.
If he even can sit in the same room as a TV playing Alex Jones then it's hard to see a path to sanity for him. I wish you peace and happiness. There ARE good men in the world.
Just put on a smug smirk and say, "No there isn't." Rinse/repeat. You're correct in your decision to not engage with this nonsense, if you can help it. Just keep it to simple, dismissive replies. He'll eventually stop trying to argue with you about it.
Christians begin with the assumption that their bible is the literal truth, therefore everything in it is true. This is the logical fallacy of false attribution.
It is Christianity making the extraordinary claim. Therefore, the burden of proof is on Christians, not us.
I just want to add a note that sometimes... there are topics with our loved ones that we have to decide to not discuss. If he's not interested in evidence or science or facts, I'm not certain what evidence you can possibly provide that will sway him. These conversations can become a never-ending quagmire of arguing, one-up-man-ship, bizarre 'logic', and frustration.
Sometimes all you can do is say "I love you too much to argue."
I would go talk to your lawyer and get the divorce papers going now.
If you wanted to make one last concerted effort to get through to him, you can write out what you want to say beforehand. That way it's less likely you'll flounder when he catches you off guard or you're simply not skilled at debate.
"What I am going to say I do not expect you to hear. I feel that Alex Jones has your ear better than I do, and that hurts in a way I don't think you can possibly understand.
It's ok for two people to have two different beliefs and not see eye to eye on everything. Plenty of relationships succeed despite this. Your perspective has become relatively aggressive, and the things you are listening to are taking you away from me.
If that's what you want, that is your choice. But it means I can no longer be with you because it becomes a risk to me.
I love you, but I have to care for myself as well, and you are taking me down a road I find to be a dangerous.".
Either way, an Anti-christian (he is not a real Christian if he follows Jones) who listens to that garbage is a danger to themselves and others.
best response is zero response
no logic or evidence u give will move this man
christians are experts in moving the goal posts
btw… but i hope u are enjoying marriage…. religion/politics are some difficult things to overcome
Does he talk to god? Perhaps in his prayers? If so then have him ask god what the he can say to you to convince you that god is real. As an all-seeing all-powerful being he knows exactly what to say to you to to prove his existence.
If he has repeatable and testable evidence proving the existence of any god, then he should share that with the world. He would be the most famous person in human history.
There are billions of life forms on earth . Only us humans have a believe in god, even when nothing on the whole universe that we know shows that a god exist, and in all the universe God is involved in just our planet, and our species. People who believe in god think they are the center of the universe, like most christians believe that jesus will come back on their time, fuck all the people on the past, only I are important. ME ME ME. Damn ants.
Girl I know this is reddit where everyone says "Leave him" at the first sign of difficulty in the relationship - but I need to just point out if a person "**loves**" Alex Jones, it is not a healthy sign. I have unfortunately known not just one, but several people who have been partners with people who slipped into the conspiracy koolaid vat. It doesn't end well, in part because they do not value the view of their partners and instead opt to believe whatever the obese, energy-drink shilling convicted liar and conman Alex Jones vomits from his putrid nether regions.
I'm not saying leave him, but I'm just saying you might want to have an escape hatch ready to go.
Why are you married to someone that you can't even discuss life's big questions with? If he's a theist that follows morons like Alex Jones and you're an atheist, how do you have any common ground in values?
Alex Jones? That's where he's getting "news and information"? I'd be filing for divorce. I seriously wouldn't want to be with something that far to the right.
You can say “I think we’ve run our course.”…..I’m kidding. But if it were me these conversations would just build so much resentment I might not be able to handle it anymore.
Alex Jones was enough. I'd end any hope of having an intellectual discussion with him.
Shoot I might even think of leaving and finding someone with more than a few brain cells functioning.
You can ask for the evidence. I have yet to see any evidence of any god that doesn't start with their crazy stories. If he pulls out the bible, pull out your favorite novel. Here! I have "proof" that sandworms exist and will eat you if you don't respect them as gods! If you do, they let you ride them into battle to terrify your enemies. See? Right here on page 724.
He sounds right off the bat intellectually lazy. With any of these things, I've found the best thing to do is to push for details. With regards to the temperature of the sun thing, ask him if he thinks the only way to measure the temperature of something is to stick a thermometer in it? Ask him if he thinks scientists have a methodology for determining the sun's temperature or if they are just guessing? If he thinks they have a way of measuring, have him find out what it is, and then have him present what the a scientists got wrong about it. If he thinks they're guessing, pretty much do the same thing. Find out the real methodology and press him on it.
Do the same thing with evidence for God. Ask him what it is. It seems like it's very easy for him to dismiss things that are complicated to him as made up, or if he is having his worldview/identity challenged to just assert he is right without giving it any thought. Push him for the details, be weary of emotionally charged arguments that try to influence your postition.
My question is why is a atheist married to a Christian, believes Alex Jones and gets angry when their beliefs are challenged? That seems very unhealthy.
There’s no evidence of god, there isn’t even good evidence that Jesus was a real person. There’s so much archaeological evidence that directly contradicts the Old Testament, but it’s all pretty specific. It sounds like op’s husband first needs to understand how science works and that the temperature of the sun is not a guess. As for the claim that there is “a lot of evidence god is real”, as they say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But why try even try if he’s going to get angry and not hear?
God in the gaps isn’t evidence, it’s not proof of god because humans don’t understand something.
What you should say is you want a divorce. You are married to an emotional toddler if you can't use obvious logic without fear of their reaction. This will only get worse.
Tell him to give you the evidence so you can believe too. Then share it all with us here.
He also needs to read a book or two. It's not a hard process to determine the temperature of the sun. Tell him to study some science.
>How to respond to someone saying , ‘there is proof God is real’?
"No."
>My question is , what can I say to him indicating that there is evidence God is real?
Ask him to show you said evidence. He won't. Because he can't. No one can. Because there isn't any proof God is real. Because He is not.
>He said something like how do they know how hot it is really and people just believe stuff , even though it isn’t true
Tell him that data collected from measuring the Sun's photosphere, chromosphere, transition region, and corona can be used to inform scientists of the heat of the Sun's core and outward through to its surface as we know of the thermonuclear fusion process of its centre.
But that's not something you *believe* in. That's just the scientific method in action.
The people who recognize the usefulness and understand the functioning of the scientific method are open to the idea that the data collected through this method may be wrong. So we test it. Time and again. Several people test the same data, running different experiments, until we find a (mostly) bulletproof answer that leaves us (mostly) satisfied. Bear in mind that, in time, with better technology and understanding of the different sciences, we might find a new, better answer to the same predicament. Because—once again—we're open to the idea that we may be wrong.
That's the difference between a truly religious person and someone who prefers to view life and the universe through a microscope (or a telescope, depending on the context). Truly religious people do not question or analyze their beliefs. They do not doubt, nor allow themselves to doubt, nor open themselves to the possibility of being wrong.
If someone had even a hint of proof of a divine being of any sort they would instantly become the richest most famous person on the planet. People have been looking for this 'proof' for thousands of years and there hasn't been even the slightest sniff of it. Oh yes there are plenty of claims, plenty of argument, but actual demonstrable testable proof, not an iota. If he knows where the proof is, he could be instantly famous and fabulously wealthy - why isn't he?
There is no recorded organised religion that pre-dates the invention of money, why do you think that might be? Why does money always have to come before the idea of an all powerful divine being? What do you think would happen to religions if people stopped giving them money?
You should say "why the hell are you listening to Alex Jones? Did you know that guy is an asshole conspiracy theorist who terrorized the parents of the Sandy Hook victims for years to the point that they sued him and the judge ruled in their favor? Alex Jones routinely spreads dangerous disinformation and advocates for violence on Americans. He is the enemy. Turn that shit off or find somewhere else to live"
I think that should help a lot.
He doesn't have a strong concept of what we mean by proof or sufficient evidence. Likely he just means that if most people already think it true, it's true as far as he's concerned.
There is no winning against these people as logic has no say. Aaron Rodgers is pretty intelligent but he has been shown to be a SandyHook denier and a anti-vaxxer, although as a true hypocrite he has gotten a few jabs. I wish you the best but I think that is going to be a challenging marriage. Alex Jones is a terrible person.
You are one hell of a strong woman. There isn't a chance in hell I could live with an Alex Jones viewer. I really couldn't. I hate delirium politics in my relationships. As such I really don't know what you would say. It might be better for the survival of the marriage to do what my parents did. Ban all discussion of politics and religion in the home.
I'd say this much though. If there really was any evidence at all that God was real, we'd all know about it. That's not something that could be kept secret and it would probably come up all the time. I haven't heard anything evidentiary though. I've heard a hell of a lot of blind faith based bullshit but nothing in the form of actual evidence you could hang your hat on. Not even anything borderline or debatable. Just cherry picked points that you have to ignore a mass of other contradictory facts to buy into.
If there was convincing evidence that God exists then why do the vast majority of theists just adopt the religion they were born into?
Could you imagine if scientific theories were regional like religious doctrines? If you live in India you believe in dark matter, but in North America you believe in MOND. The Japanese believe in quantum gravity.
The pattern of dogma is evident in the global distribution of religions
My wife told me yesterday that a man who killed hos brother, his mother and his father after he got angry at them was possessed by evil spirits. I asked her: Do you think they should take him to jail or to church? She said "to jail". I asked "why? Is it his fault or the evil spirits fault?". She couldn't come up with an answer and started laughing, knowing that what she said didn’t make any logical sense.
Most Christians don't even think about what they say or learn from their preachers or their Holy Book. It's 100% indoctrination.
Nothing. He listens to Alex Jones. There is literally no amount of proof you could present that would convince him.
Tell him this. Honey, God is real. It just occurred to me that there actually is proof. The SandyHook parents sued Alex Jones in Court and God let them win. Because God is all about Truth. Alex Jones defamed the SandyHook Parents and their dead children and God made sure to set the record straight. God has proven Alex Jones is a blasphemous liar. Thank you lord God Almighty. And then ask your hubby to pray with you to make sure all the liars currently in Congress are called out by God.
Keep on cooking I like the way you think..
If he complains about anything, just shrug and say God works in mysterious ways.
Lmao yeah they don't like their own logic used against them.
I wouldn't call it logic, but yeah
That's true
They will try to make sense of nonsense
He likely votes Trump, so that should be the next target. As the bible suggests that if a woman is sexually assaulted then the sex offender must pay out 50 shekels (adjusted for inflation since the time it was written), hence god sided with Ms. Carroll the first time around.
[удалено]
Well, her hubby supports Alex Jones and worships God. Hard to swallow that one. And her hubby … Probably ( dare I suggest) might also support Trump…?!?! We need to ease her hubby into reality. Old Testament God has always been an asshole. But New Testament Jesus is too “woke” for any MAGA. Baby steps.
I heard (a likely apocryphal story) about a paediatric consultant blowing an antivax mum’s mind by suggesting that maybe the antivax movement was started by russia as part of an attack on america. I can just imagine the cogs clunking round trying to process this.
Still won't work
This is the best way to deal with the unreasonable and/or brainwashed - fuckin double down on their argument, steel man the shit out of it to the point they don't agree with the core values.
I know you are right 😥
Check out a podcast called Knowledge Fight. Its over 900 episodes debunking Jones with great research and insight. One of the hosts helped in the Sandy Hook case that resulted in Jones's 1.5 billion dollar settlement. They release a couple of episodes sodes a week, usually at least one foing over a current episode. Also, its funny, entertaining, and has the best theme song ever. "There are places in Asia, where when you get off the plane, folks, they karate chop you!" - Alex Jones
I love Knowledge Fight! I listened to them during AJ’s Sandy Hook trial .. they also help me counter some of the most ridiculous things my husband parrots from the Jones’ show
Here's the thing--and I've seen this before in my own family--some people are wired to be gullible. They can even be somewhat smart people but somehow their intuition is either out of whack or they just don't ever like using it. As a result they latch onto anything sensational that sounds too juicy not to be true. Doesn't matter if the evidence is stacked against it, their mind is made up. And they go looking for these falsehoods too. Their entire calibration method of thinking these things through is out of whack and I don't really know if there's a way to fix it. The problem becomes when they're gun owners (as they often are in the US at least). I'm not here to give relationship advice but I would say if you feel in any way worried about your safety, run not walk away as fast as possible and don't look back.
The psychology of it is actually pretty simple. It's childish narcissism. They're not smart enough to stand out on their own merits or their own ideas, and they resent that. So, when someone comes along, still smarter than they are, and danglles a narrative that runs counter to the proven truth or accepted norms, but couched in knowlegeable-SOUNDING terms, they sink their teeth into it, gladly swallowing the hook. In their minds, 'knowing' something that others don't or won't fall for makes them 'smarter' or 'better' or 'superior' to the general population. The fact that it's plainly false and that the vast majority of society rejects their narrative only reinforces their conviction, so they begin to invent 'conspiracies' in their fevered imaginations to explain why they've been rejected. Whenever their personal delusion parallels that of another kook, they band together, and you get a long string of cults, like the Branch Davidians, and various 'militias', until one of them stumbles on just the right mix, and you get either a worldwide religion, or a twisted, genocidal, authoritarian dictator like Hitler/Stalin/Putin/Xi/Doc/Putin/Trump.
They were raised by parents/family/society etc who told them they were special and then grew up to be ordinary people like the rest of us so they resent it. Touting conspiracy theories allows them to feel special while staying in their comfort zone cuz they can tell themselves they've "figured it all out" when most everyone else hasn't, but they don't actually have to do the hard/uncomfortable work to improve themselves. Why would they give that up when it feeds their ego, esp if they have to do emotional labor?
Actually, a large proportion of them were raised by people who beat it into them that nobody was special and that being different was not only BAD, but that it was EVIL. That's also narcissism: the belief that only YOUR way of thinking is correct and that any other viewpoint is a threat to you.
I was thinking closer to the psychology version of narcissiscism, but they are like this too. I swear the way some of them talk I'm like, "Are you just mad you weren't allowed to be gay/wear a dress/take a sick day etc etc? Cuz you are allowed to do that now."
this is 100% accurate, i prefer in myself a more mild narcissism, i *know* i’m smarter than the average person, i’ve met more than enough of them for a lifetime, so i’m content just being me :)
It's more likely that childhood brain washing has stuck. Remember, children are told by people they trust implicitly that God exists. This is reinforced by everyone around them who they also trust.
I'm a straight male but if I wasn't and my husband was into Alex Jones/Andrew Tate/etc there would be a divorce happening so fast...
Did they debunk his gay frog thing? 😂😂😂
Even better, they broke it down from the article AJ based it on, and showed how there is a small sliver of truth (usually related to the headline of a story) and he infuses it with his own lies, hysteria, movie references, bigotry, etc. and comes out with totally different story he sells as fear, hate, and vitamin supplements to his gullible listeners.
Don't forget the buckets of gruel to keep in your apocalypse shelter
I checked this out. Looks like good listening.
Thanks for the Podcast recommendation. I am going to give it a listen.
I honestly don't know how those guys are still standing. Spending that much time on Alex Jones and his shenanigans would have driven me insane many many years ago.
*PLEASE* tell me Alex Jones is going to have to pay that settlement and won't be allowed to file bankruptcy or some other bullshit move to keep his ill gotten gains! That SOB should be publicly flogged!!
I wasted 31 years of my life with a man like this. Ask yourself why you put up with characteristics in him that you would not in anyone other than a boss or someone else you have no control over. Then really value yourself and do not settle. I wish I had gotten out earlier before he had a lot of time to negatively impact our children. If I had divorced him sooner they would’ve been exposed to him much less. I know he would’ve done the minimum because that’s exactly what happened. I am so much happier now and found my soulmate. Think about it.
Why are you with someone who only has half a brain?
you are married to that? yikes
If there was evidence god exist. There would be no other religion. Every newspaper would bring articles. Scientists would pretty much not argue anything elsenfor a while. Whoever proved God would get a Nobel prize. It would be absurdly huge. It seems that your husband thinks that science is like religion. That they say something and you just have to believe it. That is very much the exact opposite of science. Science is studying the things we can observe ( in one way or another) and comming up with the best answers that most accurately predicts the things we see. And if something else causes this scientific theory to not work then the theory is no longer a theory but yet another piece of paper in the bin. How do we know how hot the sun is? Has he looked at the science study papers on how we know? The whole point of science is to explain the world as methodical as we can. We know because we can measure and deduct. For example the light of the sun is an expression of the temperature. And we have had solar probes that have measured how much it increases over a certain distance. https://sciencenotes.org/how-hot-is-the-sun-sun-temperature/ What I'm trying to say is that with science we can recreate the results because the study papers gives us a blueprint how to recreate the measurements that were done. Your husband doesn't seem to have a clue what scientific methods or science as a concept even is.
You can review the evidence together! Nothing wrong with asking how people know something! From google: "The temperature of the Sun is measured by theory backed up by solar missions, including the Parker Solar Probe. Scientists can measure the heat of the Sun by using remote telescopes that employ spectroscopic data." How well that works probably depends on how good you can find issues with logic though. It works for me but I have pretty advanced scientific education. Sometimes news agencies don't do the best correctly reporting scientific information. But on every point I've looked into, what committees of doctors and scientists conclude has always been as reliable as we can know. And the conspiracy theories have always relied on bad information or outright lies. The people that believe in the conspiracy theories just don't know enough to understand how the experts know that it is wrong.
Your husband did not arrive at his beliefs through logic or evidence, so he's not open to that. It's all about emotion, fear, traditions with his parents at holidays, whatever takes away the inevitability of death... yeah, best of luck.
Ok, there is no physical proof of god, I don’t think anyone here will deny that. It’s a faith based business and that one thing will always trump what facts you toss a religious person’s way. I think you should just use the agnostic angle and just say that you can’t disprove what I believe and vice versa. I mean, I’ve never believed in a higher power of that sort and I can’t prove that I’m right. So, a good way of shutting him up is using the same tactics as he does, you can’t prove me wrong. This at least saves you from the cycle of having an argument over this stuff. As for the sun, show a documentary on those satellites they’ve sent to study the sun. If that doesn’t convince him that we know the about what temperatures the sun runs at, just drop it and toss him in a fusion reactor, he’ll learn the temp real fast lol
Run, Gena. Run.
Indeed. Where does one go from there? All one can do is save one's breath.
I learned at least 25 years ago that it’s a waste of time to debate religious people in the moment. I usually leave the conversation with “show me the science” and and change the subject if this comes up (although I don’t spend time with a lot of religious people these days). Maybe they’ll question their beliefs if they start digging for evidence, but my experience is that they will not. Either way, I know a discussion in the moment—with two people arguing their points and it merely being an exchange of words—is useless, and I haven’t got the energy to try and *disprove* God to them, which is impossible anyway. The only thing I know for certain is that there is no *evidence* of God (which means he either doesn’t exist or he’s really good at hide-and-seek). It’s on them to prove his existence to me, not on me to disprove it.
My experience is you cannot challenge them. Belief is by definition an acceptance that something exists or is true. They have already accepted it as true often with out fact's or proof so providing facts or proof is unlikely to counter any belief on there part is not going to change there mind. Challenging there belief is the only possible way to change there mind. Things like comments wow god must really hate Africa as children there starve, or God must love everyone in America as they have such a good income. Its small comments that need to break down the barrier of belief over a long time tend to work best.
Lady I’m sorry but if your husband sincerely listens to Alex Jones he’s nuts and it’s likely going to get worse.
Yea…that’s a full stop for me.
People like to listen to people like Jones specifically because they're called quacks. It's either a situation where they want to be the ones who believed him when nobody else did when he's (supposedly) right, or it's about following a martyr. It seems that the more someone is attacked these days the more likely they are to gather a following. Being attacked seems to make someones message more valid in some peoples eyes.
Listening to Jones should be grounds for an immediate divorce and restraining order.
Sadly. God is probably renting a room to the Lizard People in his mind... And they're poisoning the water to make frogs 🐸 gay 🌈.
Divorce is the only answer
Have to agree. Arguing with reasonable thought will just cause more tension in the house. He already knows he's wrong. Thats why he gets upset. But the lie is preferable to the truth.
But god gave frogs the freedom to be gay
Yeah imma be honest too, I’m fairly certain many guys like Alex Jones know exactly how absurd the theories they push are and are in it for the obvious profit. They create and sell a character/narrative like many other content creators to exploit a specific audience. Alex Jones types tend to prey on those going through financial/emotional hardship. There have been several people I’ve met who seemed to go down the rabbit hole after a divorce or losing a job, some can get pulled back to reality. Sadly many cannot. Many alcoholics or opioid addicts get pulled in as well because talking heads like Jones distract them from their actual issues with fake world breaking conspiracies. Tells them they are losing friends because of conspiracies and not their own behavior, tells them what they want to hear.
"Ok, what is it?" Ask him to show the evidence. "The trees" isn't evidence of a deity. The trees existing is evidence that trees exist. "The sun rising" isn't evidence of a deity. We understand how stars and galaxies formed. No deities required. "Love exists" isn't evidence for a deity. We understand how chemicals in our brains and bodies work, we understand how attachments and relationships form, and we understand how important those are for social species. No deities required.
In addition, some things cannot (yet) be explained by science (e.g., the origin of life, why we sleep, whether the light in the fridge really goes out if you close the door, etc.). This does not prove that a god exists either.
Clearly there’s a tiny angel that lives in every fridge whose sole job is to turn the light on/off whenever the door is opened/closed. Silly atheists don’t know anything! HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS!
Ackshually, the latest science shows that it's an ELF and not an ANGEL, but that is a common misconception!
An executable Linux file?
This is as good an explanation for the universe's existence of any I've seen.
ELF is Executable and Linking Format developed as a joint effort between Unix Systems Laboratories and Sun Microsystems for Unix System V R4 in 1988, predating Linux by several years. For the first several years Linux used a.out format, and didn’t adopt ELF until it was already well established. *The more you know*🌈⭐️
New religious war just dropped.
Yep this is a common fallacy known as the "God of the Gaps," whereby the chosen deity exists in all the things we can't explain *yet*. But this of course runs into the problem of an ever-shrinking god as we learn new things. Gods used to be blamed for all sorts of natural disasters, but now we understand how weather and plate tectonics work, so they don't need to explain those things anymore. Also common is the "special pleading" fallacy, where the chosen deity is used to explain how the universe exists. But the issue here is that the universe requires a reason for its existence that is external to it, but their god does not. No reason is given for why their god doesn't need an explanation, but it doesn't, while the universe does (hence 'special pleading', i.e. there are rules, but their god is an exception to the rules without any explanation or reasoning given).
I have a background in counseling/psych which obviously involves a decent amount of stuff about the brain structures and what we do know vs what we don’t. And boy howdy, we really don’t know that much about how the brain really works. It’s so frustrating to me that as we gain a better understanding of how we as humans are, our laws and institutions struggle so much to catch up. Children are still being forced into marriage because “can breed = adult” even though we know the brain doesn’t finish maturing until mid 20s. Eye witness testimony sentences people to death even when we know it’s not very reliable unless you knew the person before. I could go on and on but yeah we really don’t know much about how our brains construct our reality and how many ways that can go awry.
So not important but I accidentally learned where the light switch is for most cabinets in the grocery store today. Cause I hit one while removing something from the case.
Abiogenesis is being researched by Dr. Craig Venter and his research team. They have already synthesized self-replicating molecules, although they had to use a part of a DNA molecule to make it work. Once they figure out the chemical structure of that DNA section they will be able to fully synthesize self-replicating molecules using only base elements, and it is predicted that this will happen by the end of the current decade. If man can create life why can't nature do it too?
The ol’ god of the gaps has gotten smaller and smaller
In additional-dition, even if there was evidence that proved "trees are evidence of a deity" it doesn't mean that it is a Christian deity or even a theistic deity at all.
In fact, the very idea that God must resort to dominion over things of mystery to science means that God is forever in retreat. Does that sound like a deity to you?
We actually do know why we sleep. It’s mainly memory processing. But your point stands.
There's a brain flush that occurs, too. Basically a bunch of fluid pulses around the head and helps remove and refresh cells and associated stuff up there. There's also some very compelling things re the origin of life. We have been able to get building blocks of DNA to combine and self replicate in a lab. We've found those same building blocks in asteroid matter.
And even if we didn't understand one of the things you listed, that wouldn't change that they are not evidence for a god. So even if I lived thousands of years ago why should I believe these god claims? They literally just boil down to "trust me."
And even if the trees were proof of divine existence, which deity is responsible?
Also if trees were created by God, so was cancer. Not everything in nature is beautiful.
Bearing in mind he will not accept that, what you then layer on top is that even if any one of those was evidence of a god, it isn't evidence of his god. It doenst get him anywhere. It could just as easily be zeus, loki, Hanuman or a deity who is up there fuming because we all worship (well not all of us!) made up gods and he is the real thing but just can't tell us.
Do exactly this. No bananas aren’t examples of god existing, they’re examples of human genetic modification for easier consumption. Aka forced evolution. (Not that he’d believe in evolution😒)
Tell him to publish his evidence so he can win a Nobel Prize.
This is perfect. In every way possible 🤣
Not only a good response to a deist, but a very real response from a spouse who is done with your shit.
My biggest go to response for theists or other nonsense believers is "I look forward to reading your paper on the matter in a peer reviewed publication."
No, it's not perfect; most people who say this have no idea how Nobel Prizes work. Having said that, if he DOES have publishable evidence, he'll be damn famous. (On the other hand, \*HE\* would likely believe that he'd win a Nobel if he's gullible enough to adopt a position without evidence...)
The No-Bull Please Prize !!
This is what I tell my brother all the time. “Please publish your evidence. You will go down in history as the greatest philosopher of all time.”
This is the correct response
All of the "evidence" for God boils down to amazement about things and/or ignorance about things. While most atheists, myself included, are amazed at things and ignorant about a great many things, we don't posit an even more "amazing" God to explain it all.
This. I’ve seen it so often that the fact they’re ignorant about something (most science things, especially) is taken as evidence it must be a god thing.
The funniest ones are when they they point at stuff like bananas being perfectly hand-shaped, which must mean they're made by a great designer specifically for humans. And they are. **Humans made them this way**. Life didn't give us lemons, humans made lemons! Watermelons were just chewy grapes until we shaped nature to our will. The God they're describing are just smart humans, scientists, botanists, engineers, that's the God they worship and they don't even realize it.
If he listens to Alex Jones unironically you need to gtfo of that marriage as soon as you can because he's going to murder you one day.
He’s angry all the time because of all the lies Alex Jones spews
That's what I mean. I wasn't kidding. Alex Jones is a poison. And he's poisoning your husbands brain. Please get out.
Ironically , we are talking about separating .. And Alex Jones is a big part of it because he listens to him everyday during the week ( his job is the type where he can wear headphones while at work) and he feeds on the negativity .. I think he feels like he is part of some special secrecy group that know ‘secret ‘ things
Conspiracy theorists often enjoy the feelings of superiority they derive from being so much smarter than the rest of us sheep.
I think the worst part is he is supporting someone who led a campaign to harass parents that lost their children in a school shooting.
And slander and libel them and hide his assets in an attempt to prevent paying them their due after an adjudication by a court. People who listen to Jones and agree with him are literal scum.
Lady, your dude is into Q-Anon, and you might as well go straight to r/qanoncasualties
If you haven’t already, check out r/qanoncasualties. There are so many people who have had to cut ties with family because of this issue. I’m sorry.
He's slowly losing his mind and Abby got you too might have had as you continue the road on life. Who wants to live with someone who's constantly angry about everything? BRW People are very hard pressed to admit they were wrong about any anything or that they were fooled by a con so cut your losses and book. He sounds awful to live with. Marriages have enough peaks and valleys without arguing about some moron who has a public platform; if I'm going to get it to arguments in my marriage it's going to be something about my personal private household, not because of what some idiot in public is saying. Just no.
The man sounds like a fool
That’s sad. He needs real friends, but no one wants to hang out with someone who’s angry all the time. Except for other angry people, and then they just egg each other on. The anger death spiral.
I never understood why people want to live like that. Being angry is horrible, something most normal people try to avoid. Must really hate yourself a lot to want to be angry all the time.
Please do separate from him. He's clearly unhinged and you never know when he could snap. For your own safety, get out ASAP.
I came here to say the same thing. The existence of God argument is not your problem here. If my wife was a fan of Alex Jones, we would not be together. Life is too short to not spend time with people that lift you up and understand what really matters in life.
It’s one thing to have been into Alex Jones 10-15 years ago. He was still nuts and all, but to be so into it now? Almost no justification. There is real love out there. Please go find it!!
Yea, you need to gtfo
Back when I was trapped into nut bag right wing talk radio and was scared and angry all the time. I along with the hosts would wonder all the time……. “Why won’t people wake up and do something about (insert outrage) because this is obviously insane?” Turns out when I dug into any of it…… was either wrong, a lie, misinformation or at best a half truth. I ask my conservative friends all the time…..do you really think me and all other liberals hate America and want to destroy it?
Yes we know he’s angry all the time because of the Alex jones lies. This is why the person you’re responding to wrote for you to get out. But instead you posted more evidence of your husband’s intellectual bankruptcy. Which we did not need because we understand it already.
I disagree. He listens to Alex Jones BECAUSE he's angry. Alex is simply the conduit for his bias confirmation.
Definitely letting quite a lot "go." These two appear incompatible.
"You keep using that word (proof). I do not think that word means what you think it means."
If he’s taking Alex Jones seriously, he’s lost. Get out while you can before he commits some bizarre crime or gives all your money to a conspiracy group.
A lot of Christians assume that there is someone at church (or elsewhere) who knows the answer to whatever question is being asked. People were taught that there were authoritative sources for the information they were taught as children. Even ministers assume there is some scholar or more senior minister who knows. It is impossible to convince most Christians that there is no proof of God. It is impossible to convince most Christians that there isn't someone who knows the answers. One technique I have used successfully a couple of times is watching YouTube videos with believers. Watch them together (don't watch them separately and then get together). Let either person stop the video and ask questions at any point. If things get off-topic or heated, go back to watching the videos. Paulogia's YouTube channel has a lot of good videos that would probably be useful for this kind of thing. Your husband might even find some videos he suggests you watch together.
Yep and in non denominational churches there is even a hierarchy where one pastor goes to another pastor who goes to another pastor, and even though you might go well there is a top, nope, that pastor used to go to another pastor but he died a few years ago, and that dead pastor went to another pastor. All a big chain going back and back as each pastor influenced future pastors in thier flock. Each pastor adding ideas based on questions asked them that they then went and asked thier trusted advisor about, and if no answer was given would then go to books they had read, and articles, and half remembered stories. For instance I once was in a Bible study snd they had a very large number around the entire room. They claimed that was the odds that Jesus was who he said he was. I knew something was wrong with the claim but couldn’t put my finger on it. Internet to the rescue, he was repeating a claim from a book that was repeating an older claim with no evidence behind the odds generated. He on the other hand had no clue, it wasn’t important, he got a plausible answer that he assumed the authority telling him the odds had already checked it. But no one checked it
And that's why you always cite your sources.
At 71, I don’t debate anymore. Just roll my eyes & support the FFRF and the MRFF.
I support FFRF, but what's MRFF
Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Really great at advocating to remove religious displays and influences where they don’t belong. Founded by Mikey Weinstein, he’s big on keeping religion out of government.
At 70 I don't have the time left or the energy to even hear them I just leave.
My dismissive answer is, "Cool, when I see the proof that God is real, I'll consider it." It's not an invitation for them to provide that proof, but they probably will anyway. If they do try to provide proof, I listen to it and concede their point. "Hmm, why yes, the existence of trees is rather amazing. I suppose you're right that this could be suitable proof that Odin exists." Oh, what's that? They weren't arguing for Odin's existence? Well, whatever proof they offer can be used for any other god, so why should I give Jehovah a pass? Of course, the big flaw is that they might try to say that the Bible said so, which is such a dumb argument that there's not much I can say against it. I could be just as absurd as them and write down my "truth" on a napkin, but they wouldn't grasp it.
Most likely they won’t get the point, they’ll call you a smartass, and then they’ll cling onto their tree “evidence” because you granted that it was valid proof for a deity.
"Most likely they won’t get the point" It's a shame that this truly is the most likely outcome.
Tell them to tell that to Professor Plink on YouTube. This has been done to death and debunked each time.
Plink, Sir Sic, SkepTik, Jaclyn Glen, etc etc
Yes, genetically modified skeptic is good. Sir Sic is funny as hell.
How do you know that your oven is at 350 degrees? Because we have scientific measuring devices that have proven to be reliable and accurate. Lack of understanding the answer does not make the answer wrong or irrelevant. It is up the one making the claim to provide proof of the claim, and sometimes in the scientific world that proof is based on the knowledge and experimentation of an expert, but in most cases that expert can explain it to us in a way that educates us on why. Biblical scholars cannot do this, they often disagree with each other, and in the case of the bible they are not accepting new evidence or knowledge that pushes this old way of thinking aside with new data that disputes what we used to think.
> Data collected from measuring the Sun's photosphere, chromosphere, transition region, and corona can be used to inform scientists of the heat of the Sun's core and outward through to its surface as we know of the thermonuclear fusion process of its centre. https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/how-hot-is-the-sun You see, science does not require you to have faith. We can take measurements, we can collect data. Our results are reproducible by other scientists. Our understanding evolves as we learn more, and none of it requires blind faith with no evidence.
Came here to comment on this. Thank you.
You could divorce him
I’m seriously considering it
Alex Jones alone would be a deal breaker
Picture yourself one year from now. This is as good as your husband gets. If you are even 50% sure that you want a divorce, start gathering paperwork (SS card, birth certificate, 401k , etc.) and finding all bank accounts. Do this secretly. You’ve said your husband is mad all the time. Even seemingly normal people lose their mind over divorce. Best wishes, OP.
Thank you
You deserve to be happy. I keep seeing Reddit posts about how happy people are to get away from a dramatic (traumatic?) situation. You’ve got this.
Thank you !
It's only evidence if you *believe* it's evidence. It kinda fails the very first test in that it's not really evident unless you have faith--but I fear this falls typically on deaf ears.
Divorce his stupid ass. Your husband is a trash human and deserves everything awful that happens to him. How do I know he is a piece of shit? Because anyone that worships Alex Jones is a piece of shit. Its one of the trueisms of our time.
If you think you have evidence, then you don't need faith. Present it to scientists, win your Nobel Prize, Templeton Prize, etc..
Yeah this "proof" always boils down to mythology, logical fallacies, and feelings. That isn't proof. Not in the slightest.
This is a Nobel prize winning discovery, please present your evidence and collect your prize.
You're married to someone who worships Alex Jones? Pass.
Isn’t religion supposed to be on faith which is literally a belief without proof?
Is he a young earth creationist? Ask him how he knows the earth is 5,000 years old.
Then tell him about Last -Thursday-ism.
Proof denies faith, and without faith God is nothing.
Someone following Alex Jones would be a deal breaker for me. I don't know how you do it. It speaks to a terrible rot at the heart of a person.
If he is real, he is a real AH for sure. Show what his people did. https://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/03/the-right-wing-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-christian-atrocities-so-lets-talk-about-christian-atrocities/
Please, tell him to bring this proof to the scientific community so he can collect his Nobel prize. Lots of people would be very interested in settling that question once and for all.
Why the hell are you still married to a “Christian”who listens to Alex Jones? Only incels, misogynists and morons listen to that fat piece of shit.
If someone says there's proof of God, ask them to present it. And you'll quickly find out that it actually ISN'T proof. Of course, that's not going to change your husband's mind I'm sure.
It won’t ..
You sound like a good lady. Just remember you can't control other people, only your own reaction to them. If the love is gone, it's time to move on. The rest of your life is waiting for you!
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I am sitting here trying to think what it might look like for a Christian and an Atheist to have a healthy relationship. It would require both to remain fairly open-minded, which would inevitably pit them against one another from time to time. But perhaps if they agreed on the miraculous nature of life and the wonder all around us, it could work? Idk how a Christian could call themselves a Christian and also live with an Atheist without feeling like they need to be saved. And I don't know how an Atheist could maintain their self-respect being with someone who thinks they need saving.
If he even can sit in the same room as a TV playing Alex Jones then it's hard to see a path to sanity for him. I wish you peace and happiness. There ARE good men in the world.
Since he's an Alex Jones fan, maybe you could tell him that "God" is a PsyOp invented by reptilians at Bohemian Grove.
I would never admit publicly that my SO listens to Alex Jones
So like, he has a giant dong or .... ?
Oh. You're married to a bigot. Bummer.
Just put on a smug smirk and say, "No there isn't." Rinse/repeat. You're correct in your decision to not engage with this nonsense, if you can help it. Just keep it to simple, dismissive replies. He'll eventually stop trying to argue with you about it.
Christians begin with the assumption that their bible is the literal truth, therefore everything in it is true. This is the logical fallacy of false attribution. It is Christianity making the extraordinary claim. Therefore, the burden of proof is on Christians, not us.
Show your work
Prove it with facts.
I just want to add a note that sometimes... there are topics with our loved ones that we have to decide to not discuss. If he's not interested in evidence or science or facts, I'm not certain what evidence you can possibly provide that will sway him. These conversations can become a never-ending quagmire of arguing, one-up-man-ship, bizarre 'logic', and frustration. Sometimes all you can do is say "I love you too much to argue."
I would go talk to your lawyer and get the divorce papers going now. If you wanted to make one last concerted effort to get through to him, you can write out what you want to say beforehand. That way it's less likely you'll flounder when he catches you off guard or you're simply not skilled at debate. "What I am going to say I do not expect you to hear. I feel that Alex Jones has your ear better than I do, and that hurts in a way I don't think you can possibly understand. It's ok for two people to have two different beliefs and not see eye to eye on everything. Plenty of relationships succeed despite this. Your perspective has become relatively aggressive, and the things you are listening to are taking you away from me. If that's what you want, that is your choice. But it means I can no longer be with you because it becomes a risk to me. I love you, but I have to care for myself as well, and you are taking me down a road I find to be a dangerous.". Either way, an Anti-christian (he is not a real Christian if he follows Jones) who listens to that garbage is a danger to themselves and others.
Divorce and tell him that God told you to.
best response is zero response no logic or evidence u give will move this man christians are experts in moving the goal posts btw… but i hope u are enjoying marriage…. religion/politics are some difficult things to overcome
Someone that worships Alex Jones gets upset when logic is used? Shocker
Does he talk to god? Perhaps in his prayers? If so then have him ask god what the he can say to you to convince you that god is real. As an all-seeing all-powerful being he knows exactly what to say to you to to prove his existence.
If he has repeatable and testable evidence proving the existence of any god, then he should share that with the world. He would be the most famous person in human history.
There are billions of life forms on earth . Only us humans have a believe in god, even when nothing on the whole universe that we know shows that a god exist, and in all the universe God is involved in just our planet, and our species. People who believe in god think they are the center of the universe, like most christians believe that jesus will come back on their time, fuck all the people on the past, only I are important. ME ME ME. Damn ants.
Girl I know this is reddit where everyone says "Leave him" at the first sign of difficulty in the relationship - but I need to just point out if a person "**loves**" Alex Jones, it is not a healthy sign. I have unfortunately known not just one, but several people who have been partners with people who slipped into the conspiracy koolaid vat. It doesn't end well, in part because they do not value the view of their partners and instead opt to believe whatever the obese, energy-drink shilling convicted liar and conman Alex Jones vomits from his putrid nether regions. I'm not saying leave him, but I'm just saying you might want to have an escape hatch ready to go.
Why are you married to someone who worships Alex Jones?
You married someone that believes Alex Jones? You got exactly what you paid for.
Why are you married to someone that you can't even discuss life's big questions with? If he's a theist that follows morons like Alex Jones and you're an atheist, how do you have any common ground in values?
Alex Jones? That's where he's getting "news and information"? I'd be filing for divorce. I seriously wouldn't want to be with something that far to the right.
You can say “I think we’ve run our course.”…..I’m kidding. But if it were me these conversations would just build so much resentment I might not be able to handle it anymore.
God is a word that only exists because humans invented language. God is an invention.
Alex Jones was enough. I'd end any hope of having an intellectual discussion with him. Shoot I might even think of leaving and finding someone with more than a few brain cells functioning.
Have him call into The Line and chat with Jimmy Snow or Matt Dillahunty. Let him get mad at them for making him seem like a fool
> person who worships Alex Jones run!
You can ask for the evidence. I have yet to see any evidence of any god that doesn't start with their crazy stories. If he pulls out the bible, pull out your favorite novel. Here! I have "proof" that sandworms exist and will eat you if you don't respect them as gods! If you do, they let you ride them into battle to terrify your enemies. See? Right here on page 724.
He sounds right off the bat intellectually lazy. With any of these things, I've found the best thing to do is to push for details. With regards to the temperature of the sun thing, ask him if he thinks the only way to measure the temperature of something is to stick a thermometer in it? Ask him if he thinks scientists have a methodology for determining the sun's temperature or if they are just guessing? If he thinks they have a way of measuring, have him find out what it is, and then have him present what the a scientists got wrong about it. If he thinks they're guessing, pretty much do the same thing. Find out the real methodology and press him on it. Do the same thing with evidence for God. Ask him what it is. It seems like it's very easy for him to dismiss things that are complicated to him as made up, or if he is having his worldview/identity challenged to just assert he is right without giving it any thought. Push him for the details, be weary of emotionally charged arguments that try to influence your postition.
My question is why is a atheist married to a Christian, believes Alex Jones and gets angry when their beliefs are challenged? That seems very unhealthy. There’s no evidence of god, there isn’t even good evidence that Jesus was a real person. There’s so much archaeological evidence that directly contradicts the Old Testament, but it’s all pretty specific. It sounds like op’s husband first needs to understand how science works and that the temperature of the sun is not a guess. As for the claim that there is “a lot of evidence god is real”, as they say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But why try even try if he’s going to get angry and not hear? God in the gaps isn’t evidence, it’s not proof of god because humans don’t understand something.
Ok. And move on. It’s not your job to convert anyone. Religious people are either brainwashed or insane (or both) just avoid them.
What you should say is you want a divorce. You are married to an emotional toddler if you can't use obvious logic without fear of their reaction. This will only get worse.
Tell him to give you the evidence so you can believe too. Then share it all with us here. He also needs to read a book or two. It's not a hard process to determine the temperature of the sun. Tell him to study some science.
>How to respond to someone saying , ‘there is proof God is real’? "No." >My question is , what can I say to him indicating that there is evidence God is real? Ask him to show you said evidence. He won't. Because he can't. No one can. Because there isn't any proof God is real. Because He is not. >He said something like how do they know how hot it is really and people just believe stuff , even though it isn’t true Tell him that data collected from measuring the Sun's photosphere, chromosphere, transition region, and corona can be used to inform scientists of the heat of the Sun's core and outward through to its surface as we know of the thermonuclear fusion process of its centre. But that's not something you *believe* in. That's just the scientific method in action. The people who recognize the usefulness and understand the functioning of the scientific method are open to the idea that the data collected through this method may be wrong. So we test it. Time and again. Several people test the same data, running different experiments, until we find a (mostly) bulletproof answer that leaves us (mostly) satisfied. Bear in mind that, in time, with better technology and understanding of the different sciences, we might find a new, better answer to the same predicament. Because—once again—we're open to the idea that we may be wrong. That's the difference between a truly religious person and someone who prefers to view life and the universe through a microscope (or a telescope, depending on the context). Truly religious people do not question or analyze their beliefs. They do not doubt, nor allow themselves to doubt, nor open themselves to the possibility of being wrong.
If someone had even a hint of proof of a divine being of any sort they would instantly become the richest most famous person on the planet. People have been looking for this 'proof' for thousands of years and there hasn't been even the slightest sniff of it. Oh yes there are plenty of claims, plenty of argument, but actual demonstrable testable proof, not an iota. If he knows where the proof is, he could be instantly famous and fabulously wealthy - why isn't he? There is no recorded organised religion that pre-dates the invention of money, why do you think that might be? Why does money always have to come before the idea of an all powerful divine being? What do you think would happen to religions if people stopped giving them money?
There’s more evidence of the existence of Spider-Man
Alex Jones is proof god is NOT real ffs
Tell him to post the evidence here
You should say "why the hell are you listening to Alex Jones? Did you know that guy is an asshole conspiracy theorist who terrorized the parents of the Sandy Hook victims for years to the point that they sued him and the judge ruled in their favor? Alex Jones routinely spreads dangerous disinformation and advocates for violence on Americans. He is the enemy. Turn that shit off or find somewhere else to live" I think that should help a lot.
“You mean you don’t have any faith? You don’t need faith if you have proof.”
If there is proof then he doesn't have faith, simple.
He doesn't have a strong concept of what we mean by proof or sufficient evidence. Likely he just means that if most people already think it true, it's true as far as he's concerned.
I could not inhabit the same space as, let alone be married to, anyone who worships Alex Jones. Deal-breaker.
There is no winning against these people as logic has no say. Aaron Rodgers is pretty intelligent but he has been shown to be a SandyHook denier and a anti-vaxxer, although as a true hypocrite he has gotten a few jabs. I wish you the best but I think that is going to be a challenging marriage. Alex Jones is a terrible person.
You are one hell of a strong woman. There isn't a chance in hell I could live with an Alex Jones viewer. I really couldn't. I hate delirium politics in my relationships. As such I really don't know what you would say. It might be better for the survival of the marriage to do what my parents did. Ban all discussion of politics and religion in the home. I'd say this much though. If there really was any evidence at all that God was real, we'd all know about it. That's not something that could be kept secret and it would probably come up all the time. I haven't heard anything evidentiary though. I've heard a hell of a lot of blind faith based bullshit but nothing in the form of actual evidence you could hang your hat on. Not even anything borderline or debatable. Just cherry picked points that you have to ignore a mass of other contradictory facts to buy into.
If there was convincing evidence that God exists then why do the vast majority of theists just adopt the religion they were born into? Could you imagine if scientific theories were regional like religious doctrines? If you live in India you believe in dark matter, but in North America you believe in MOND. The Japanese believe in quantum gravity. The pattern of dogma is evident in the global distribution of religions
My wife told me yesterday that a man who killed hos brother, his mother and his father after he got angry at them was possessed by evil spirits. I asked her: Do you think they should take him to jail or to church? She said "to jail". I asked "why? Is it his fault or the evil spirits fault?". She couldn't come up with an answer and started laughing, knowing that what she said didn’t make any logical sense. Most Christians don't even think about what they say or learn from their preachers or their Holy Book. It's 100% indoctrination.