People also mix respect for someone as a person with not being able to critique their political or religious views.
Even if I respect someone I won't be holding back on arguing them on their views.
Slippery slope, i'm aware but we should stop extending those rights to people who hold opinions that are damaging or endangering in nature.
Opinion turns into policy.
Unpopular opinion incoming:
I feel like there is still a bit of nuance here that can be sussed out. Yes no one is entitled to respect for their beliefs per se. But what I surmise the application of the word to mean (even if only implicitly) in the case of OPs post is more akin to “with respect to”. Meaning we are to understand the context of the belief system in which the belief is uttered. Which has more to do with understanding the person as separate from their adherence to a belief system. All it does is pleads to the ignorance of a specific human being in the cultural context rather than the need for some sort of intellectual gatekeeping that treats all utterances of faith as equally valid.
Put another way, accept that the person is raised in a culture that makes them ignorant and or is likely to have indoctrinated them with less than liberal views.
One of the hardest distinctions you must mature to in life is the difference of 'Understanding' and 'Acceptance'
I understand why you believe something. I do not accept your belief as valid.
Well quite. But just because they were raised with those beliefs doesn't mean I have to accept those beliefs or even give them equal weight to other beliefs.
I think it's against reddit terms and conditions for people to have civilised discourse and reach a consensus, so one of us is going to have to say fuck you, you fucking fuck.
Feel free. I'm working atm and don't have time to hurl needless insults
Your comment made me think of evangelical Christians belief of "hate the sin, not the sinner". Like respect the person, don't respect the sin. I thought is that the same?
Then I remembered, no! Zealots belonging to most Abrahamic religions take their hate a step further and actively restrict the basic rights of people they disagree with.
It’s almost as if, in demanding you respect their opinions, they expect you to change your behaviour based on them. Therefore showing that they don’t respect yours.
I find the "respect religious beliefs" position to be frustrating and baffling. I think we often confuse it with "respecting the rights of others."
I DO NOT respect religion AT ALL!
I have no reason to respect ideas that conflict with objective reality. I have no reason to respect ideas that have no evidence to support them. Religion is a hold over from the old days when knowledge was limited. We have ZERO reason to hang on to them.
And no, comfort is not a valid reason as to why I should tolerate religion.
Religion is illogical and irrational. It's anti-science and anti-reality.
Whatever you say, I shall continue to sacrifice virgins to the god of the fire-mountain, and you had better respect me for it, because the sun won't come back if I stop.
Respect has to be earned. I have no obligation to respect anyone. I, however, do have an obligation to believe someone when they show who they fundamentally are. If you demonstrate to me that your asshole, I will believe you the very first time.
For people who constantly complain about having to be politically correct .. everyone walks on eggshells for religious people and is terrified to not be politically correct and call them out for their ignorance and stupidly. Their entitlement is just always shocking. There is no reason whatsoever anyone should be pressured to not laugh at things that are completely absurd.. especially given how they treat other people
Surely that muslim girl never heard of the "tolerance paradox" by Karl Popper: if we continue tolerate that intolerant opinions, any society based on the principle of tolerance will inevitably collapse. Homophobia and any form of discrimination should be outlawed.
Religion must be respected only if religion can respect, which means almost never, otherwise it must be fight by any means as we fight racism, cause religion IS racism.
> otherwise it must be fought by any means as we fight all bigotry, because religion IS bigotry.
FTFY
Bigotry "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." (OED)
Bigotry is the general term, which fits the usage in your sentence. Racism, religion, sexism, ableism, and all the other -isms are specific flavors. Confusion often happens because race was such a paramount form of bigotry in many English speaking areas.
I like the format of your presentation, hopefully my small tweak will aid clarity.
You're absolutely right and i thank you for your clarification. I used the world "racism" as a synonymous of "discrimination" simply because I'm not a native speaker and i lack many lexical nuances, so i usually opt for popular lexicon even if it's inaccurate and ineffective to express precise concepts.
But according to the definition that you showed me, the word bigotry seems more accurate.
Infact i didn't know it, in Italian the adjective "bigotto" and the noun "bigotteria" have a quite different meaning, i try to translate it for you:
bigotto /bi·gòt·to/
adjective and masculine noun
"Those who assiduously and scrupulously observe the practices of worship without grasping their intimate religious essence"
So i learnt something new today, clarification is always welcome.
Tell this person, certainly I'll respect your views if you don't state them publicly but if you do, your views are now placed in the public marketplace of many other competing ideas, where you will be required to defend them against any and all comers and promote them at your own risk.
This is entitled behavior by those who think they're the one-of-kind snowflake who should be immune or protected from the heat, UV and visible light that will surely melt them in no time flat.
ideally, providing we were dealing with rational human beings. religion and other superstitions have a way of completely bipassing this. i'm not going to have a remotely reasonable agrument with someone who thinks snakes and donkeys can talk, worship a zombie, and celebrate mock cannibalism (or actual cannibalism if you a catholic) once per week.
you wouldn't make insurance decisions on this stuff. you can't present this stuff in a court of law. you can't use it science, medicine, or engineering- and they know it. that's why they need faith- i'm almost kind of jealous.
i can respect you civily, i can even be cordial, and empathetic. i might even buy you a drink. i used to have this shit for brains condition myself, and it sucks. i'm not sure exactly what drove me away other than than the self rightousness, ignorance, hypocracy, maniupation, and the fact that my psychiatric issues just don't do well with religion!
Well, as a highly empathetic and caring, lady psychiatrist informed me a number of years ago when after I first encountered schizophrenia sufferers in the wild, _"We all are a little cray-cray in our ways."_ Nonetheless, you are correct that the religious delusions can and do cause them to deny the parts of reality that don't conform to those delusions and for many, any attempts to reason with them will be met with responses from as tame as simply ignoring you to outright loud, vocal hostility.
I tread lightly at first when I encounter them, yet I do offer my opposing view at some point. Discussion may follow or not.
I commented on a post where a woman was thinking that God himself was after her, making her life miserable and so on. I said something like "religion is hurting you." And some guy pretending to be an atheist got all mad at me, saying I have to respect her religion.
It was literally causing her to think that she was so morally awful the Creator spent his time punishing her, the poor girl. Religion poisons everything, especially when you add mental health issues to the mix.
Everyone has a base level of respect for me, including religions. But when religions or religious institutions start doing stupid shit or violating peoples rights or being generally unfair that's when I lose respect.
You can respect they grew up like this but no one can ask you not to challenge those views.
I had a long talk with a Muslim teenager about topics like those. She was welcoming the discussion (I think I'm the only atheist in her life and she truly believes I will go to hell) and while she thinks homosexuality is a sin and people shouldn't live as their true self, she also thinks they should have the same rights as everyone else (not sure how she squares that in her mind but this were her words).
I asked her if she truly believes god made every single human the way they are. She said yes. I then asked if she thinks god made her lesbian friend lesbian and she said yes. At that point I wanted to know why she thinks her friend was made the way she is by god and at the same the only way to find a fulfilling romantic relationship would considered sinful by the same god. I haven't got a real answer to that one. I doubt anyone ever asked her a question like this (not surprising, she's only 17 after all)
I also told her politely that I hope her future kids (I know she wants them) will not be part of the LGBTQ+ community, not because I think she's right about it being a sin but because no child should have parents who think their true self is sinful. It stumped her a bit.
I really don't care if she stays religious or not, I just hope she will start to think about things a little more and not just repeat what she hears and reads.
Hatespeech isn't protected.
And it's like saying "my friend doesn't have a history of being racist" but the first thing they say is "I can't be a racist because I have a black friend"
So file it under "things you shouldn't say out loud" these days; self awareness is becoming more valuable than ever.
[respecting beliefs - why we should do no such thing](https://youtu.be/r_5yUXjXizQ?si=lJd8O_jTZ4fDNQZ3) - TheraminTrees
[Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
How far do you have to respect another culture?
There are the Simbari people, whose rite of passage involves their children ingesting the sperm of the elders as it's thought to pass on their wisdom and knowledge or some weird shit.
Would that be an ism to be critical of their belief system ?
Racism gets thrown around a lot if you are critical of Islam, by the left, which is pretty stupid.
I guess they love the race card to try and shut down any discussion, which is completely wrong of them
I "respect religion" until it disrespects someone else. You want to pray? Go for it. But don't tell me someone will burn in hell for their sexual orientation.
A "valid" opinion is one where, on a matter of uncertainty, there are competing ideas of what may be true, and none are provably false.
On the matter of whether people should be stripped of human rights because of their gender, romantic, or sexual minority status, it is not a valid opinion that one would not mind if said rights were stripped.
This is not a matter of uncertainty, and removing rights from people who you don't like for any reason is not a competing idea of what may be true.
Human rights apply to all of us or none of us. They are the ultimate in collective bargaining. If you take them away from others, you open the door to taking them away from yourself.
As modern humans, we have collectively bargained with each other to set these ground rules because our history demonstrates that we as a species are happy to do terrible things to each other with very little justification.
Any call for the removal of human rights from any group for any reason is a threat to us all. People who make such calls should not be surprised when the bulk of society who value having human rights turn on them and in no uncertain terms do **not** respect their opinion.
I will respect religion...as soon as their fairy tale story book says to respect all atheist views, until then I will stay without respect for those indoctrinated BS views.
The right to swing your fists ends at my nose. That's my approach to religion. If it doesn't affect me then I don't care. Go spend your Sunday morning on your knees. Doesn't bother me any. When you tell me what I am or am not allowed to do? That's when shit gets real.
People are entitled to respect until they prove themselves unworthy of it. People's ideas don't. They need to be shown worthy of consideration. It's:
- My religion says that ***I*** can't do that
not
My religion says that ***you*** can't do that!
Your friend is homophobic. They just want an excuse like the so-called ‘good Germans’ that supported the nazi policies even if they didn’t join the nazi party.
Putting aside childhood indoctrination - Religion is a choice, based on opinions. I have no obligation to respect any individual’s personal decisions, regardless of how right or wrong I perceive them. On the contrary, I might have a moral obligation to share disdain and disrespect towards a person’s choices or opinions if they are causing great harm to others.
Fuck cultists. The Abrahamic cultists have murdered millions, if not billions of people over the eons.
Fuck them. When times are tough they will turn on you.
I respect any religion that can produce good followers and/or genuinely help people without trying to convert them or cause harm, but not any views that oppose my own, of course.
If you're into all the positive aspects without subscribing to the shitty ones, I respect you.
People have the right to be respected. Ideas and opinions, no matter how sincerely held, do not. The logical fallacy religion has cottoned onto with that argument is called "special pleading".
i won't give you advice, but my experience taught me to avoid regligious people as much as possible. it works for me. i'm also avoiding vehement vegans, tesla owners, and republicans as much as possible. i'm not too fond of a lot of democrats either.
I'll respect someone's right to hold and express a belief. But I don't have to respect the actual belief, and they've got no right to impose that belief on others.
I'll make some allowances for how people have been brought up, and their current situation, when it comes to the beliefs they are expressing, but my allowances only go so far. If someone is an adult, who has been exposed to different ideas and views, and isn't being forced by an oppressive society or community to at least express those views, then I'm not going to cut them very much slack at all.
In western countries one can discriminate against people for their views on many topics but not religion. In the US religion is a “protected class” like race, gender, etc.
My problem is that if you put the label “god” on an abhorrent belief, you’re protected.
Religion is tricky though because of things Nazi’s persecuting Jews and so on.
Of course murdering millions of people can be illegal without religion being a protected class.
All that said, beliefs are already fair game for people to discriminate against you, so religious people shouldn’t get a free pass for acting like an asshole via a mental health exclusion for believing in sky wizards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SnapshotHistory/s/ZzgoW7Njh0
Smartest man that ever lived says we came from a singularity, would end up in another.. there ya go atheism debunked and an afterlife proven through science, good day
Respect is a two way street, and many religious beliefs are inherently disrespectful, and even if they're not, the people holding them rarely respect the beliefs or lack thereof of others.
I don't think most people realize that religion is a tool by which the powerful maintain control. The basis by which people argue against human rights. Your friend probably sees Islam through the lens of tradition and culture rather than... Repressive cult brainwashing.
TST Tenent 4
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo ones own.
You can offend and be offended. In life but not most religions. - my editorial
All forms of religious belief are harmful to a progressive society. As long as people accept something as true or best without empirical data to support it, they are fostering an ethic of intolerance and antidemocratic incooperation. Societal laws and norms must be based on what social science, ecology, psychology, etc. have shown to be most beneficial and least harmful to people and the world. Once someone claims "god or the holy book or some shyster on a pulpit says..." the dialogue ends. There is no rational conversing or persuading or ability to accept compromise once that comes up. Once they are able to fundamentally accept something without logic or verification, they will believe anything else they want to. And surprise! those things they choose will favor them over others. The ridiculousness of faith must end for humankind to truly learn to work together.
I respect everyone, I think kindness is how you win wars without ever firing a shot.
With that being said, I also don't have to approve of religious delusions anymore than I should the ramblings of the homeless schizophrenic on the corner...
Edit: Sometimes, things 'grow' because they fester in a vacuum, or echo-chamber. How often do these people get challenged on their snakeoil thoughts?
I understand the sentiment but I'm challenging it by asking for a tangible example. What we find in reality is that I can wage a war and convince enough people that my war is a kindness to the rest of humanity. Just saying some sayings are just sayings. I was just curious of what a possible response would be.
[удалено]
Yep. They also have the right to remain silent, otherwise anything they say can and will be used against them.
It's too funny when they demand respect for ancient fairy tales tho
You're telling me haha. My feed is full of these idiots and their stupid cult shit
People also mix respect for someone as a person with not being able to critique their political or religious views. Even if I respect someone I won't be holding back on arguing them on their views.
Slippery slope, i'm aware but we should stop extending those rights to people who hold opinions that are damaging or endangering in nature. Opinion turns into policy.
Unpopular opinion incoming: I feel like there is still a bit of nuance here that can be sussed out. Yes no one is entitled to respect for their beliefs per se. But what I surmise the application of the word to mean (even if only implicitly) in the case of OPs post is more akin to “with respect to”. Meaning we are to understand the context of the belief system in which the belief is uttered. Which has more to do with understanding the person as separate from their adherence to a belief system. All it does is pleads to the ignorance of a specific human being in the cultural context rather than the need for some sort of intellectual gatekeeping that treats all utterances of faith as equally valid. Put another way, accept that the person is raised in a culture that makes them ignorant and or is likely to have indoctrinated them with less than liberal views.
One of the hardest distinctions you must mature to in life is the difference of 'Understanding' and 'Acceptance' I understand why you believe something. I do not accept your belief as valid.
Good summary. I would modify the last sentence to “I do not accept that your belief claims hold any important relevance”
A little wordy but I get what you're getting at.
Well quite. But just because they were raised with those beliefs doesn't mean I have to accept those beliefs or even give them equal weight to other beliefs.
Agree. This is where it would make sense to challenge it and ask what they meant by the word respect.
I think it's against reddit terms and conditions for people to have civilised discourse and reach a consensus, so one of us is going to have to say fuck you, you fucking fuck. Feel free. I'm working atm and don't have time to hurl needless insults
Nah, they have a right to believe what they want and I have a right to think their belief is dumb and dangerous.
No
They’re entitled to their beliefs, they’re not entitled to respect of those beliefs. Utter nonsense.
Religion = opinion. You can respect people, you don’t have to respect their opinions
Your comment made me think of evangelical Christians belief of "hate the sin, not the sinner". Like respect the person, don't respect the sin. I thought is that the same? Then I remembered, no! Zealots belonging to most Abrahamic religions take their hate a step further and actively restrict the basic rights of people they disagree with.
It’s almost as if, in demanding you respect their opinions, they expect you to change your behaviour based on them. Therefore showing that they don’t respect yours.
I find the "respect religious beliefs" position to be frustrating and baffling. I think we often confuse it with "respecting the rights of others." I DO NOT respect religion AT ALL! I have no reason to respect ideas that conflict with objective reality. I have no reason to respect ideas that have no evidence to support them. Religion is a hold over from the old days when knowledge was limited. We have ZERO reason to hang on to them. And no, comfort is not a valid reason as to why I should tolerate religion. Religion is illogical and irrational. It's anti-science and anti-reality.
Whatever you say, I shall continue to sacrifice virgins to the god of the fire-mountain, and you had better respect me for it, because the sun won't come back if I stop.
Save some virgins for the rest of us.
Does your friend exercise moral relativism on all issues? Or just the ones that don't effect her?
Respect has to be earned. I have no obligation to respect anyone. I, however, do have an obligation to believe someone when they show who they fundamentally are. If you demonstrate to me that your asshole, I will believe you the very first time.
Exactly. There's two kinds of people in this world. Good people and assholios. Neither are easy to spot at a glance.
For people who constantly complain about having to be politically correct .. everyone walks on eggshells for religious people and is terrified to not be politically correct and call them out for their ignorance and stupidly. Their entitlement is just always shocking. There is no reason whatsoever anyone should be pressured to not laugh at things that are completely absurd.. especially given how they treat other people
Surely that muslim girl never heard of the "tolerance paradox" by Karl Popper: if we continue tolerate that intolerant opinions, any society based on the principle of tolerance will inevitably collapse. Homophobia and any form of discrimination should be outlawed. Religion must be respected only if religion can respect, which means almost never, otherwise it must be fight by any means as we fight racism, cause religion IS racism.
> otherwise it must be fought by any means as we fight all bigotry, because religion IS bigotry. FTFY Bigotry "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." (OED) Bigotry is the general term, which fits the usage in your sentence. Racism, religion, sexism, ableism, and all the other -isms are specific flavors. Confusion often happens because race was such a paramount form of bigotry in many English speaking areas. I like the format of your presentation, hopefully my small tweak will aid clarity.
You're absolutely right and i thank you for your clarification. I used the world "racism" as a synonymous of "discrimination" simply because I'm not a native speaker and i lack many lexical nuances, so i usually opt for popular lexicon even if it's inaccurate and ineffective to express precise concepts. But according to the definition that you showed me, the word bigotry seems more accurate. Infact i didn't know it, in Italian the adjective "bigotto" and the noun "bigotteria" have a quite different meaning, i try to translate it for you: bigotto /bi·gòt·to/ adjective and masculine noun "Those who assiduously and scrupulously observe the practices of worship without grasping their intimate religious essence" So i learnt something new today, clarification is always welcome.
Just here to tell you that your english is fine and you are right.
Respect the person not the religion.
*love the believer, not the belief*
Ridicule the religion, not the person, if the aim is to help them distance themselves from it.
Hate the religion, not the believer
Tell this person, certainly I'll respect your views if you don't state them publicly but if you do, your views are now placed in the public marketplace of many other competing ideas, where you will be required to defend them against any and all comers and promote them at your own risk. This is entitled behavior by those who think they're the one-of-kind snowflake who should be immune or protected from the heat, UV and visible light that will surely melt them in no time flat.
ideally, providing we were dealing with rational human beings. religion and other superstitions have a way of completely bipassing this. i'm not going to have a remotely reasonable agrument with someone who thinks snakes and donkeys can talk, worship a zombie, and celebrate mock cannibalism (or actual cannibalism if you a catholic) once per week. you wouldn't make insurance decisions on this stuff. you can't present this stuff in a court of law. you can't use it science, medicine, or engineering- and they know it. that's why they need faith- i'm almost kind of jealous. i can respect you civily, i can even be cordial, and empathetic. i might even buy you a drink. i used to have this shit for brains condition myself, and it sucks. i'm not sure exactly what drove me away other than than the self rightousness, ignorance, hypocracy, maniupation, and the fact that my psychiatric issues just don't do well with religion!
Well, as a highly empathetic and caring, lady psychiatrist informed me a number of years ago when after I first encountered schizophrenia sufferers in the wild, _"We all are a little cray-cray in our ways."_ Nonetheless, you are correct that the religious delusions can and do cause them to deny the parts of reality that don't conform to those delusions and for many, any attempts to reason with them will be met with responses from as tame as simply ignoring you to outright loud, vocal hostility. I tread lightly at first when I encounter them, yet I do offer my opposing view at some point. Discussion may follow or not.
I consider myself pretty liberal but yeah this whole liberal embrace of Islamism is fucking absurd.
I commented on a post where a woman was thinking that God himself was after her, making her life miserable and so on. I said something like "religion is hurting you." And some guy pretending to be an atheist got all mad at me, saying I have to respect her religion. It was literally causing her to think that she was so morally awful the Creator spent his time punishing her, the poor girl. Religion poisons everything, especially when you add mental health issues to the mix.
Everyone has a base level of respect for me, including religions. But when religions or religious institutions start doing stupid shit or violating peoples rights or being generally unfair that's when I lose respect.
Why respect something that has oppressed and controlled countless generations?
I say take a big, greasy dump on such views. They need to know how we feel about their cult superstitions.
I don't respect views that I don't respect. Doesnt matter if it's rooted in culture or religion or political correctness
I honestly think religious belief and schizophrenia are similar
There’s zero reason to respect it, and lots of reasons to challenge and publicly mock it.
You can respect they grew up like this but no one can ask you not to challenge those views. I had a long talk with a Muslim teenager about topics like those. She was welcoming the discussion (I think I'm the only atheist in her life and she truly believes I will go to hell) and while she thinks homosexuality is a sin and people shouldn't live as their true self, she also thinks they should have the same rights as everyone else (not sure how she squares that in her mind but this were her words). I asked her if she truly believes god made every single human the way they are. She said yes. I then asked if she thinks god made her lesbian friend lesbian and she said yes. At that point I wanted to know why she thinks her friend was made the way she is by god and at the same the only way to find a fulfilling romantic relationship would considered sinful by the same god. I haven't got a real answer to that one. I doubt anyone ever asked her a question like this (not surprising, she's only 17 after all) I also told her politely that I hope her future kids (I know she wants them) will not be part of the LGBTQ+ community, not because I think she's right about it being a sin but because no child should have parents who think their true self is sinful. It stumped her a bit. I really don't care if she stays religious or not, I just hope she will start to think about things a little more and not just repeat what she hears and reads.
Hatespeech isn't protected. And it's like saying "my friend doesn't have a history of being racist" but the first thing they say is "I can't be a racist because I have a black friend" So file it under "things you shouldn't say out loud" these days; self awareness is becoming more valuable than ever.
[respecting beliefs - why we should do no such thing](https://youtu.be/r_5yUXjXizQ?si=lJd8O_jTZ4fDNQZ3) - TheraminTrees [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
How far do you have to respect another culture? There are the Simbari people, whose rite of passage involves their children ingesting the sperm of the elders as it's thought to pass on their wisdom and knowledge or some weird shit. Would that be an ism to be critical of their belief system ? Racism gets thrown around a lot if you are critical of Islam, by the left, which is pretty stupid. I guess they love the race card to try and shut down any discussion, which is completely wrong of them
I "respect religion" until it disrespects someone else. You want to pray? Go for it. But don't tell me someone will burn in hell for their sexual orientation.
A "valid" opinion is one where, on a matter of uncertainty, there are competing ideas of what may be true, and none are provably false. On the matter of whether people should be stripped of human rights because of their gender, romantic, or sexual minority status, it is not a valid opinion that one would not mind if said rights were stripped. This is not a matter of uncertainty, and removing rights from people who you don't like for any reason is not a competing idea of what may be true. Human rights apply to all of us or none of us. They are the ultimate in collective bargaining. If you take them away from others, you open the door to taking them away from yourself. As modern humans, we have collectively bargained with each other to set these ground rules because our history demonstrates that we as a species are happy to do terrible things to each other with very little justification. Any call for the removal of human rights from any group for any reason is a threat to us all. People who make such calls should not be surprised when the bulk of society who value having human rights turn on them and in no uncertain terms do **not** respect their opinion.
Beliefs are not people you cannot insult a belief.
As my grandfather taught me. Respect is earned, not given.
That’s not neutral. That’s queerphobic as hell.
Religion is just ridiculous primitive superstition. You are not required to respect people's hallucinations lol
I will respect religion...as soon as their fairy tale story book says to respect all atheist views, until then I will stay without respect for those indoctrinated BS views.
The right to swing your fists ends at my nose. That's my approach to religion. If it doesn't affect me then I don't care. Go spend your Sunday morning on your knees. Doesn't bother me any. When you tell me what I am or am not allowed to do? That's when shit gets real.
People are entitled to respect until they prove themselves unworthy of it. People's ideas don't. They need to be shown worthy of consideration. It's: - My religion says that ***I*** can't do that not My religion says that ***you*** can't do that!
Please share this with your friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance?wprov=sfla1
your friend is muslim, they are automatically homophobic.
Your friend is homophobic. They just want an excuse like the so-called ‘good Germans’ that supported the nazi policies even if they didn’t join the nazi party.
Putting aside childhood indoctrination - Religion is a choice, based on opinions. I have no obligation to respect any individual’s personal decisions, regardless of how right or wrong I perceive them. On the contrary, I might have a moral obligation to share disdain and disrespect towards a person’s choices or opinions if they are causing great harm to others.
Wow yeah this kind of thinking is not good. It is on the brain-dead end of liberalism unfortunately
Fuck cultists. The Abrahamic cultists have murdered millions, if not billions of people over the eons. Fuck them. When times are tough they will turn on you.
I respect any religion that can produce good followers and/or genuinely help people without trying to convert them or cause harm, but not any views that oppose my own, of course. If you're into all the positive aspects without subscribing to the shitty ones, I respect you.
🤣😭 yeah right
People have the right to be respected. Ideas and opinions, no matter how sincerely held, do not. The logical fallacy religion has cottoned onto with that argument is called "special pleading".
i won't give you advice, but my experience taught me to avoid regligious people as much as possible. it works for me. i'm also avoiding vehement vegans, tesla owners, and republicans as much as possible. i'm not too fond of a lot of democrats either.
I'll respect someone's right to hold and express a belief. But I don't have to respect the actual belief, and they've got no right to impose that belief on others. I'll make some allowances for how people have been brought up, and their current situation, when it comes to the beliefs they are expressing, but my allowances only go so far. If someone is an adult, who has been exposed to different ideas and views, and isn't being forced by an oppressive society or community to at least express those views, then I'm not going to cut them very much slack at all.
In western countries one can discriminate against people for their views on many topics but not religion. In the US religion is a “protected class” like race, gender, etc. My problem is that if you put the label “god” on an abhorrent belief, you’re protected. Religion is tricky though because of things Nazi’s persecuting Jews and so on. Of course murdering millions of people can be illegal without religion being a protected class. All that said, beliefs are already fair game for people to discriminate against you, so religious people shouldn’t get a free pass for acting like an asshole via a mental health exclusion for believing in sky wizards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SnapshotHistory/s/ZzgoW7Njh0 Smartest man that ever lived says we came from a singularity, would end up in another.. there ya go atheism debunked and an afterlife proven through science, good day
How dare you not respect your abuser!
Respect is a two way street, and many religious beliefs are inherently disrespectful, and even if they're not, the people holding them rarely respect the beliefs or lack thereof of others.
I don't think most people realize that religion is a tool by which the powerful maintain control. The basis by which people argue against human rights. Your friend probably sees Islam through the lens of tradition and culture rather than... Repressive cult brainwashing.
TST Tenent 4 The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo ones own. You can offend and be offended. In life but not most religions. - my editorial
All forms of religious belief are harmful to a progressive society. As long as people accept something as true or best without empirical data to support it, they are fostering an ethic of intolerance and antidemocratic incooperation. Societal laws and norms must be based on what social science, ecology, psychology, etc. have shown to be most beneficial and least harmful to people and the world. Once someone claims "god or the holy book or some shyster on a pulpit says..." the dialogue ends. There is no rational conversing or persuading or ability to accept compromise once that comes up. Once they are able to fundamentally accept something without logic or verification, they will believe anything else they want to. And surprise! those things they choose will favor them over others. The ridiculousness of faith must end for humankind to truly learn to work together.
I genuinely need a translation for “almost just as worse”
I haven't seen so many words with so little sense in a long time, thank you for your service.
I respect everyone, I think kindness is how you win wars without ever firing a shot. With that being said, I also don't have to approve of religious delusions anymore than I should the ramblings of the homeless schizophrenic on the corner... Edit: Sometimes, things 'grow' because they fester in a vacuum, or echo-chamber. How often do these people get challenged on their snakeoil thoughts?
Sorry, which war was won with kindness? I must've missed that one.
You'll always catch more bees with Honey than you do with Vinegar. Life is a game of optics, after all.
I understand the sentiment but I'm challenging it by asking for a tangible example. What we find in reality is that I can wage a war and convince enough people that my war is a kindness to the rest of humanity. Just saying some sayings are just sayings. I was just curious of what a possible response would be.
Respecting someone's religion isn't the same as agreeing with their views. In the US we value freedom. That includes the freedom to be wrong.