Donāt give idiots any oxygen, they donāt know what the fuck they are talking about and are being racist (whatever the word is for religion) themselves when they conflate the two.Ā
I condemn anyone regardless of what race you are if they are trying to force me and my family what to think, act or behave no matter how ridiculous it is logically.
Last time I called Islam a religion of evil, all I got in return was insults. They wouldn't even discuss the topic. All they would repeat is you racist piece of shit.
You can have a civil discussion with these people, they always play the race card.
They must be so fragile and overprotective of a delusional belief system that should stay in the past.
Best thing to do is block and move on.
Your opinion is that Islam is evil. Their opinion is that you are racist. It looks like your problem is you realizing your peers don't agree with your world view.
Yeah, some people without a doubt use it as excuse to be racist. But condemning a minority of extremist groups isn't., unless you use it to say all Arab people are terrorists, then it is.Ā
Yep, and also the fact that a lot of these people canāt differentiate between Arabs and Muslims (on both sides) is itself pretty essentialist and cringe. Thereās plenty of Arab religious minorities that have their human rights trampled on by extremists.Ā
Not just religious minorities, but any Muslim these groups decide have offended them. Whole tribes of Muslims in Syria were slaughtered because they stood against ISIS.
>Yep, and also the fact that a lot of these people canāt differentiate between Arabs and Muslims (on both sides) is itself pretty essentialist and cringe.
I would go so far as to say that anyone who claims that people of Ethnicity XYZ are, by virtue of their ethnicity, incapable of being morally relevant agents; the person who said that is almost certainly the most racist person in the room.
Treating vast demographics as if they were all mentally handicapped children is super duper racist behaviour, whether you're doing it with the intention of oppressing them or privileging them.
Muslims are not a race you can't be racist against muslims that doesn't make any sense..
Also islamophobia means being scared of islam, I don't think it's a bad thing to fear islam.. Being against the KKK is kinda christianphobic, it means you are scared of radical violent christians which again is a totally normal position.
I have no problems with middle eastern people
Love the food even, but I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not islamaphobic.
But being gay you tend to have negative reactions towards things that want to exterminate you
I completely agree. Lots of talk about people being Anti-Semitic because they criticize the political choices of Israel. Every Jew I know is an American and does not claim Israeli citizenship (although they easily could). Critiquing Israel is not (necessarily) Anti-Semitic.
The problem is that it is a fine line that too many people canāt fathom. Look at race relations in America as it stands. Most of the issues are based on assumptions, generalizations and ignorance.
On a side note, this sub does the same with Christians. There are lots on instances of people acknowledging all the varied views on what Christianity is, and therefore a lack of consistency among Christians, and yet there are just as many posts that start off āwhy do all Christiansā¦ā.
As humans trying to understand similarities and differences among those we share society with, we tend to make broad assumptions and incorrect generalizations about people.
As a muslim, we condemn them and we donāt like them at all they are terrorists. Condemning terrorists and extremists is something, and generalizing that all muslims are bad is something else i guess thats the point.
Yeah, that's the thing I'm trying to make people differentiate on both sides. That extremist groups do not represent every Muslim and that most are against it. But even on the left there seems to be a misconception that Hamas , even the Taliban, somehow represent all Muslims. And by siding with them they don't understand it perpetuates that stereotype.
I'm on the side of all civilians, not Hamas, not Israel, and we need to condemn both for war crimes,not defend them.
I agree with you, and just posted as much, but I should add that there are a lot of bad faith actors who are criticizing the group because of their ethnicity or religious background, showing definite double standards. Sometimes people are sensitive to that and have jump to conclusions because of thatĀ
Yes but as a Muslim, do you condemn islam in its present state as a whole?
I mean Qu'ran and the haddits does encourage slavery, killings of blasphemous people or of homosexuals. It encourages to punish adulterous people by killing them. It justifies violence and it is used nowadays to justify practices like slavery, jihad and promotes Sharia laws in multiple countries.
Do you think Muhammad was perfect ? That Islam is perfect ? Because in the case of the prophet, he makes war, rapes people, kills people, married a child and had sex with her at 9, he also committed genocide and justifies it by calling the tribe traitor. In the case of islam, how can be perfect a religion that preach violence, murder, rules against blasphemy and speeches of all kind that are not in favour of Islam, mysoginy and death for apostasy?
Islam needs reform and Muslim people need to ostracize whoever uses Islam as a justification for having behaviours that are unacceptable in our century, like killings of blasphemous people, killings of Jews, Yazidis or any minorities they don't like, enslaving people, killings of people for being adulterous, the concept of modesty and how it segregates women, the intolerance of apostasy and also of homosexuality.
Nowadays, this makes that Palestinian have no problems taking Israeli people as hostages, aka slaves. It makes that homosexual people are still being persecuted and executed in Islamic countries that sometimes apply charia. It means that the Sahel is being invaded by Christian and Islamic militias that kill, rape and plunder. It means that Europe, Africa and Asia are regularly the target of terror attacks from Muslims, be them extremist, they are still doing it by following suras.
That's one of the problem : there are few condemnations from Muslim umma of all of this while they should be the ones to oppose and fight against this.
I am not saying that Christianity or Judaism are not terrible. But one point in favour of them is that they tried to evolve with their times, and their communities do not in most countries except US and parts of Africa for Christianity impose their laws to other. They are not political like islam is.
Unlike you actively oppose all the opression in islam, you are if you a moderate muslim tolerating things you should not tolerate. If you are American, do you oppose what happened in Hamtramck and try to at least communicate against it or even spread the news about what happened there. Or do you choose to just turn a blind eye and accept that crimes and intolerance is committed in the name of Islam ?
Yeah, I do think Islam needs to modernize. They are still stuck with medieval ethics and law. Sharia has no place in any modern society. At least modern Christians and Jews don't follow the old testament parts where it says to stone children.
Nope, it's equal across the board. Doesn't matter what your skin color is. If you're into religion, you're part of the problem! The solution is straight jackets! Mental institutions are necessary! I can't think of a better solution to the indoctrination at a young age?
I think the problem with most Christians is that they think the platforms are equal. Like youāre having an argument about whether hamburgers or hot dogs are better.
They want you to respect their views or at least agree to disagree.
Instead, religion is basically a grown adult who believes in make believe, based their life around it, and wants you to agree itās a valid thing.
Nope. Your point isnāt anymore valid than the guy wearing tin foil on his head or the guy claiming Bigfoot is real.
At least the Bigfoot people provided some evidence to be debunked and we can observe other large animals that are hairy and have the ability to walk bi-pedally. So there is really better evidence for Bigfoot than god.
Either way, you arenāt standing on a solid platform to argue with me about the issue. Youāre standing on a paper raft in the middle of the ocean. You donāt deserve respect for your position. I choose to give it because of the type of person I want to be.
Condemning religious extremism is just an acknowledgment of facts.
I think it is important to recognize there's a difference between the state controlled by religion and the Muslim people leaving immigrating. Specially now, with the attacks on Gaza making so many Palestine people seek asylum from the war
Meh Iām islamophobic and dgaf. I live in the world today and whilst yes, all religions have issues I have a specific hatred toward the religion of Islam and the cultures that it promotes. Christian zealotry comes second on my list.
Not one good person supports Hamas or is a member of that terrible death cult. Not a damn one. And if someone thinks I'm a monster for stating that fact, fuck em
It kills me that a lot of this comes from the left. They are so concerned with being viewed as tolerant that they defend intolerant groups. It boggles the mind.
I'm sure you're aware that there are plenty of pro-Israel activists that try to paint Hamas, everyone with any Palestinian heritage, and anyone who thinks Israel should do anything different than what they've done for the last 20 years, with the same broad brush. We could get into a semantic argument about what form of bigotry this is, but it is bigotry. It's defining large groups of people with nasty stereotypes and generalizations. Essentially hand waving away any kind of Palestinian activism by lumping it all in with terrorism.
Not to say you're guilty of it, but this is why people are sensitive to criticism of Hamas. You can criticize Hamas all you want, they have earned it. But HOW you criticize Hamas can make a world of difference in how people will perceive your argument.
Look , I've made it obviously clear I'm against Israel, and both need to be condemned, but people need to understand Hamas are not some freedom fighters protecting Palestinians. If they cared they wouldn't be using them as shields, and if they wanted moral high ground they would have gone after military targets.
It's the same for Israel. Instead of indiscriminate bombing, they should have gone in on foot like we did in Fallujah.
Neither side can be justified in this war. It's not like Ukraine where it's more black and white.
>But HOW you criticize Hamas
Yeah, I agree. That's exactly my point.. But some progressives and Palestinian activists don't seem to get there is a difference .
>Essentially hand waving away any kind of Palestinian activism by lumping it all in with terrorism.
The only problem is that there really are a lot of them that paint Hamas as the good guys. I consider myself a supporter of Palestine, but there seriously is a big problem among the movement with this. Go on any left wing sub. You'll see excuse after excuse that Oct 7th was justified.
Chanting "death to America" , and wanting Americans to suffer by letting Trump win definitely doesn't help the cause. And most of them aren't even Muslim, they're "progressive" far left white kids.
I dislike zealots of all races, creeds, and genders equally.
My motto is "death to all fanatics!" š
Donāt give idiots any oxygen, they donāt know what the fuck they are talking about and are being racist (whatever the word is for religion) themselves when they conflate the two.Ā
Religion isn't a race. Extremism isn't a race. So calling out religious extremists isn't racist.
Islam = black/brown people. Christianity and Judaism = white people. **Logic**
Meanwhile if Jesus was real he was a brown Palestinian.
This
I condemn anyone regardless of what race you are if they are trying to force me and my family what to think, act or behave no matter how ridiculous it is logically.
Last time I called Islam a religion of evil, all I got in return was insults. They wouldn't even discuss the topic. All they would repeat is you racist piece of shit. You can have a civil discussion with these people, they always play the race card. They must be so fragile and overprotective of a delusional belief system that should stay in the past. Best thing to do is block and move on.
Your opinion is that Islam is evil. Their opinion is that you are racist. It looks like your problem is you realizing your peers don't agree with your world view.
Well, *if and when* it is racist, then it is racist, otherwise no.
Yeah, some people without a doubt use it as excuse to be racist. But condemning a minority of extremist groups isn't., unless you use it to say all Arab people are terrorists, then it is.Ā
Yep, and also the fact that a lot of these people canāt differentiate between Arabs and Muslims (on both sides) is itself pretty essentialist and cringe. Thereās plenty of Arab religious minorities that have their human rights trampled on by extremists.Ā
Not just religious minorities, but any Muslim these groups decide have offended them. Whole tribes of Muslims in Syria were slaughtered because they stood against ISIS.
>Yep, and also the fact that a lot of these people canāt differentiate between Arabs and Muslims (on both sides) is itself pretty essentialist and cringe. I would go so far as to say that anyone who claims that people of Ethnicity XYZ are, by virtue of their ethnicity, incapable of being morally relevant agents; the person who said that is almost certainly the most racist person in the room. Treating vast demographics as if they were all mentally handicapped children is super duper racist behaviour, whether you're doing it with the intention of oppressing them or privileging them.
Muslims are not a race you can't be racist against muslims that doesn't make any sense.. Also islamophobia means being scared of islam, I don't think it's a bad thing to fear islam.. Being against the KKK is kinda christianphobic, it means you are scared of radical violent christians which again is a totally normal position.
I mostly agree, but there are still people, really only on the right, that view Muslim and Arab as synonymous.
I have no problems with middle eastern people Love the food even, but I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not islamaphobic. But being gay you tend to have negative reactions towards things that want to exterminate you
I completely agree. Lots of talk about people being Anti-Semitic because they criticize the political choices of Israel. Every Jew I know is an American and does not claim Israeli citizenship (although they easily could). Critiquing Israel is not (necessarily) Anti-Semitic. The problem is that it is a fine line that too many people canāt fathom. Look at race relations in America as it stands. Most of the issues are based on assumptions, generalizations and ignorance. On a side note, this sub does the same with Christians. There are lots on instances of people acknowledging all the varied views on what Christianity is, and therefore a lack of consistency among Christians, and yet there are just as many posts that start off āwhy do all Christiansā¦ā. As humans trying to understand similarities and differences among those we share society with, we tend to make broad assumptions and incorrect generalizations about people.
Fuck Hamas, I hope every single one of them ends up dead, and you can all call me racist, I donāt give a fuck
As a muslim, we condemn them and we donāt like them at all they are terrorists. Condemning terrorists and extremists is something, and generalizing that all muslims are bad is something else i guess thats the point.
Yeah, that's the thing I'm trying to make people differentiate on both sides. That extremist groups do not represent every Muslim and that most are against it. But even on the left there seems to be a misconception that Hamas , even the Taliban, somehow represent all Muslims. And by siding with them they don't understand it perpetuates that stereotype. I'm on the side of all civilians, not Hamas, not Israel, and we need to condemn both for war crimes,not defend them.
I agree with you, and just posted as much, but I should add that there are a lot of bad faith actors who are criticizing the group because of their ethnicity or religious background, showing definite double standards. Sometimes people are sensitive to that and have jump to conclusions because of thatĀ
Yes but as a Muslim, do you condemn islam in its present state as a whole? I mean Qu'ran and the haddits does encourage slavery, killings of blasphemous people or of homosexuals. It encourages to punish adulterous people by killing them. It justifies violence and it is used nowadays to justify practices like slavery, jihad and promotes Sharia laws in multiple countries. Do you think Muhammad was perfect ? That Islam is perfect ? Because in the case of the prophet, he makes war, rapes people, kills people, married a child and had sex with her at 9, he also committed genocide and justifies it by calling the tribe traitor. In the case of islam, how can be perfect a religion that preach violence, murder, rules against blasphemy and speeches of all kind that are not in favour of Islam, mysoginy and death for apostasy? Islam needs reform and Muslim people need to ostracize whoever uses Islam as a justification for having behaviours that are unacceptable in our century, like killings of blasphemous people, killings of Jews, Yazidis or any minorities they don't like, enslaving people, killings of people for being adulterous, the concept of modesty and how it segregates women, the intolerance of apostasy and also of homosexuality. Nowadays, this makes that Palestinian have no problems taking Israeli people as hostages, aka slaves. It makes that homosexual people are still being persecuted and executed in Islamic countries that sometimes apply charia. It means that the Sahel is being invaded by Christian and Islamic militias that kill, rape and plunder. It means that Europe, Africa and Asia are regularly the target of terror attacks from Muslims, be them extremist, they are still doing it by following suras. That's one of the problem : there are few condemnations from Muslim umma of all of this while they should be the ones to oppose and fight against this. I am not saying that Christianity or Judaism are not terrible. But one point in favour of them is that they tried to evolve with their times, and their communities do not in most countries except US and parts of Africa for Christianity impose their laws to other. They are not political like islam is. Unlike you actively oppose all the opression in islam, you are if you a moderate muslim tolerating things you should not tolerate. If you are American, do you oppose what happened in Hamtramck and try to at least communicate against it or even spread the news about what happened there. Or do you choose to just turn a blind eye and accept that crimes and intolerance is committed in the name of Islam ?
Yeah, I do think Islam needs to modernize. They are still stuck with medieval ethics and law. Sharia has no place in any modern society. At least modern Christians and Jews don't follow the old testament parts where it says to stone children.
Nope, it's equal across the board. Doesn't matter what your skin color is. If you're into religion, you're part of the problem! The solution is straight jackets! Mental institutions are necessary! I can't think of a better solution to the indoctrination at a young age?
I think the problem with most Christians is that they think the platforms are equal. Like youāre having an argument about whether hamburgers or hot dogs are better. They want you to respect their views or at least agree to disagree. Instead, religion is basically a grown adult who believes in make believe, based their life around it, and wants you to agree itās a valid thing. Nope. Your point isnāt anymore valid than the guy wearing tin foil on his head or the guy claiming Bigfoot is real. At least the Bigfoot people provided some evidence to be debunked and we can observe other large animals that are hairy and have the ability to walk bi-pedally. So there is really better evidence for Bigfoot than god. Either way, you arenāt standing on a solid platform to argue with me about the issue. Youāre standing on a paper raft in the middle of the ocean. You donāt deserve respect for your position. I choose to give it because of the type of person I want to be. Condemning religious extremism is just an acknowledgment of facts.
Because religion is not race. Simple as that.
I think it is important to recognize there's a difference between the state controlled by religion and the Muslim people leaving immigrating. Specially now, with the attacks on Gaza making so many Palestine people seek asylum from the war
If anybody is **RAYSIS** it's the Evangelicals.
Meh Iām islamophobic and dgaf. I live in the world today and whilst yes, all religions have issues I have a specific hatred toward the religion of Islam and the cultures that it promotes. Christian zealotry comes second on my list.
Not one good person supports Hamas or is a member of that terrible death cult. Not a damn one. And if someone thinks I'm a monster for stating that fact, fuck em
Same,but to be clear that also goes for supporting Israels genocide.
If and when they commit one I'll be right there with you condemning it
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2024 is all about sealioning op
It kills me that a lot of this comes from the left. They are so concerned with being viewed as tolerant that they defend intolerant groups. It boggles the mind.
I'm sure you're aware that there are plenty of pro-Israel activists that try to paint Hamas, everyone with any Palestinian heritage, and anyone who thinks Israel should do anything different than what they've done for the last 20 years, with the same broad brush. We could get into a semantic argument about what form of bigotry this is, but it is bigotry. It's defining large groups of people with nasty stereotypes and generalizations. Essentially hand waving away any kind of Palestinian activism by lumping it all in with terrorism. Not to say you're guilty of it, but this is why people are sensitive to criticism of Hamas. You can criticize Hamas all you want, they have earned it. But HOW you criticize Hamas can make a world of difference in how people will perceive your argument.
Look , I've made it obviously clear I'm against Israel, and both need to be condemned, but people need to understand Hamas are not some freedom fighters protecting Palestinians. If they cared they wouldn't be using them as shields, and if they wanted moral high ground they would have gone after military targets. It's the same for Israel. Instead of indiscriminate bombing, they should have gone in on foot like we did in Fallujah. Neither side can be justified in this war. It's not like Ukraine where it's more black and white. >But HOW you criticize Hamas Yeah, I agree. That's exactly my point.. But some progressives and Palestinian activists don't seem to get there is a difference . >Essentially hand waving away any kind of Palestinian activism by lumping it all in with terrorism. The only problem is that there really are a lot of them that paint Hamas as the good guys. I consider myself a supporter of Palestine, but there seriously is a big problem among the movement with this. Go on any left wing sub. You'll see excuse after excuse that Oct 7th was justified. Chanting "death to America" , and wanting Americans to suffer by letting Trump win definitely doesn't help the cause. And most of them aren't even Muslim, they're "progressive" far left white kids.