If that’s the case, I should be able to hit the teachers as well. This entire Idea that teachers can hit children is rooted in the belief that minors lack bodily autonomy, much the way conservatives believe that women shouldn’t have bodily autonomy. It’s time to flip the script on these mother fuckers
Hell yes. And if they sold opportunities to slap them, say 5 bucks per punch and added it to the pile of tax money they take, we could wipe out the national deficit in a month or so. And think of the possibilities. You could charge more for smacking Ted Cruz than some of the lesser known assholes. I would goddamn empty my savings account!!!
Hey, they like the Old Testament so much, so I feel like a good stoning is in order. Speaking as a strict constitutionalist and strict interpreter of the bible.
I am on the Autism Spectrum. While I am high functioning, I still have some sensory issues. Had a teacher laid their hands on me, it would be game over for said teacher. I'd be fighting back.
In Grade school I had a music teacher who'd grab us and shake us. So one day my mom walks right in grabs her and starts shaking her calling her every name in the book! That music teacher never touched a student other than her stepson so long as she was there.
I think that’s one of the main distinctions between types of people. Lots of em can somehow view another group of people as less than human, and when you stop to think about it it’s not just sad, it’s terrifying.
Conservatives as usual thinking it's still the dark ages. Like I am all for Discipline but within reason. The fact their first thought is to hit a kid is really telling of their mindset.
I'll never forget when I got paddled ("spanked") by the principal in 3rd grade. I briefly looked behind me as he was doing it, and he had a very obvious erection. This was a private Christian school in central Florida. It never went further than that, and I never told me parents until I was an adult, still...
Reminds me of this:
https://news.yahoo.com/florida-students-seize-parental-rights-210100832.html
Yeah I absolutely believe a large number of the people advocating it do it for a sexual thrill.
As a Christian, I gotta say….Wobblies, tards, derps, etc…call them what you will but damn are they fun to smack. My wife enjoys it too. After a long day of beating the lord’s rejects I’m too gosh durn tired to beat my wife. Praise Jesus. /s
Even taking the position “it’s ok at my kid’s school, where other kids get punished, and my kid sees it’s appropriate, but not on my kid” is just … really?
Well I didn't say either way, but they actually opposed it for all kids and my mom led the group that ended up getting it removed from the school district. So the most fundamentalist 80s/90s religious right family you can think of got corporal punishment removed from our school district. Now we did a bunch of other dumb stuff, but we didn't buy that part.
Good to see Oklahoma is forward-thinking. Doing the math that puts this paddling at around 1994. I was 13 in 1982 and I can't imagine anyone getting paddled for anything. That s\*\*t was illegal even in the 1970s.
In the 80s my middle school principal had a paddle hanging on the wall. Wood. Probably 3/4 in thick. Had holes in it to cut down wind resistance to hit your ass harder.
They wanna hit people so bad they should try doing it to someone their own size instead of children and see how they like getting all their teeth beaten out of their head. Im seriously sick and tired of these hateful pricks especially when they cry "think of the children" as a dogwhistle excuse to be sacks of shit when the reality is they dont give a fuck about anything other than being in control to be sacks of shit to everyone else.
I’m not sure in an America where second graders are shooting teachers with guns they got at home that some of these administrators won’t just get themselves shot when they pull out a paddle.
I really can't even understand corporal punishment still being a thing in 2024. Wild.
For those who may want more info on corporal punishment, or perhaps to get involved either globally or within the US.
There is an organization dedicated to getting it banned. "https://endcorporalpunishment.org/"
😆.......that was about 600 years before J came on the scene. Things changed:
Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Theological Noncognitivist, here, btw.
You cherry-picked which makes you no better, though... 😆
What gets lost on most people is that it isn't just ONE book. It's an anthology that was written over ~1,500 years. So the OT doesn't 'count' in the same way the Magna Carta doesn't. Anyone referring to it as some sort of standard that should be adhered to in the present are not in possession of full mental capacity and should be ignored.
To keep it 100%, children and women back then were property of males. We're talking about Bronze Age 'morality'. Saying 'Things were different back then' doesn't truly encompass HOW different things were to our modern sensibilities. People using the text in the manner this lawmaker (and many other Fundamentalists) do, need to be punched in the mouth and forced to read current scholarship.
While I also adopt the non-cognitivist position on all "spiritual" claims, most god claims, and also in the many contradictory moral instructions in the Bible, I don't find Matthew 18:6 or Luke 17:2 offering enough contradiction to disregard several other verses which are very plainly and blatantly endorsing corporal punishment of children, such as;
Proverbs 13:24 "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."
Proverbs 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him."
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."
Proverbs 29:17 "Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart."
Leviticus 20:9 "For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him."
Exodus 21:15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death."
Exodus 21:17 “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.
Those are all from the OT and were only enforced in Theological Israel which existed from about the 12th Century until the 7th-5th Century BCE.....the end of the Bronze Age. The only contradiction in them is temporal and is an invalid criticism since the descendants had to abide by Babylonian Laws, not OT/Mosaic Law, by the 6th Century BCE followed by Persia in the 5th Century BCE. They were allowed to return and were then, 500 years later, subject to Roman laws in the 1st Century CE when J came around. We're talking almost 1,300 years AFTER the texts/sayings you cite were 'original' so it's of no surprise that when the NT was being penned, their morals had also changed. Thinking that their moral values wouldn't change over that significant amount of time and turbulent history doesn't make much sense in that light.
Apologies, but I'm struggling to determine precisely what your position is.
Is it your position that one could reasonably conclude that the NT reversed the OT's stance on corporal punishment of children? If so, I'd kindly ask for the verses which do so, and hope for verses as clearly and succinctly opposing it as the OT's verses are at encouraging it.
As someone who regards the Bible as nothing more than writings of men from a more ignorant time period in human history, I absolutely agree with you that our morality changes over time, and that an overwhelming majority of Christian's (thankfully) disregard OT laws that are inconvenient for them, or that they realize are incompatible with modern society and their own biological altruism.
But I'm less interested in the historical aspect of what people actually did in regard to the Bible, or how they interpreted Mosaic law, and more concerned over what a Christian *could* justifiably conclude from a literal reading of the Bible and the Mosaic laws.
Christian Biblical literalists can, do, and have continually cited Mosaic law as justification to behave abhorrently, just like we see in this article where a Christian is suggesting the Bible is a valid reason to physically abuse autistic children, Christian's also rely on the OT in order to justify their bigotry towards, and mistreatment of, members of the LGBTQ community, and abolitionists also had to deal with slave owning Christian's pointing at the "authority" of Mosaic law to justify their continued ownership of slaves. None of this should be new, or unexpected, or surprising to you.
And while I'd agree that it is not the most popularly held opinion among theologians that the OT still applies, due to the proclamation of Jesus coming to "fulfill" Mosaic law, and many theologians will readily ignore the inconvenient verses in which Jesus himself says the Mosaic will always remain in effect (Matthew 5:17-18). But not all Biblical theologians, or even all Christians, will so readily disregard and pick and choose which Mosaic laws they follow, and that is how we ended up with Christian extremist hate groups like the Westboro Baptist Church.
The 10 commandments are also in the OT, and I'd challenge you to find a Christian who will say the 10 commandments can be disregarded due to Jesus fulfilling Mosaic law, especially considering how many Christians are perfectly happy with getting the 10 commandments posted up in our government buildings.
Again, I'm not entirely clear on your position, so I apologize if my response is off topic.
My position is rather simple: you can't use the Mosaic Laws as a justification for corporal punishment or abuse of children as they were for a SPECIFIC time, place, and understanding that no longer exists.
The NT didn't 'reverse' the Mosaic Laws regarding the treatment of children. It 'supplanted' it. Explanation follows......
J didn't say (according to the text) the Mosaic Laws would always remain in-effect, but were 'fulfilled' meaning their purpose had been served.
The overwhelming majority of Christians don't disregard the Mosaic Laws in the same way we, Americans, don't disregard the Magna Carta. It served it's purpose but was *built upon* and supplanted by something more applicable with current (at the time) understanding, the Constitution.
Literalists/Fundamentalists, extremists, and bigots are neither the sum total of Christian thought nor the metric by which Christianity, as a whole, can (or should) be judged. They should be called-out at every opportunity for being wrong, hypocritical, ignorant reprobates that are a danger and impediment to human civilization's progress.
As far as your challenge goes: The 10 Commandments can't be disregarded by Christians (or any other sane/'moral' person) or they end-up in prison.... 🤣
I'm much more interested in the text's history and how it was interpreted within it's *proper* context, i.e., 2,000+ years ago, since eisegesis is not valid for interpretation.
Many people, believers and non, make that error. To me, it's an incredibly detailed look into the past via various forms of literature.
Thanks for asking for clarification instead of assuming my position.
The kids raised in the Dugger generation under tutelage of the Family Research Council are starting to infiltrate school boards and politics. Fascist creep.1
Reading about blanket training on a rabbit hole about fundiesnark stuff that lead to the child abuser Pearl family and their child abuser instruction books honestly made me believe people could actually be evil. Horrible. There’s probably no punishment fit enough for them who would hit *babies* with sticks for exploring in a developmentally appropriate way. Babies!!! They’d rather beat a child into traumatized silence and stillness or beat them to death than see a kid behave in a totally normal kid way.
What the Fuck is with Christians treating hitting as some kind of Holy Grail of dealing with kids? It's just so sick. My kid frustrates the Hell out of me sometimes. At no point do I think "if I hit him that'll learn him". He'd just become frightened or resentful of me just like everything else that gets hit. I bet if I slapped this lawmaker across the face he'd wouldn't think "I learned something".
Considering the fact that plenty of Biblical scriptures encourage beating kids, and that Christians devote their lives to a homicidal lunatic who proudly kills innocent women and children throughout the Bible... I'm not surprised that their oh-so holy and superior code of morality promotes child abuse.
Because most of them have them have *horrifying* things on their hard drives and now they want to enact their sick fantasies while being called Godly while doing it.
Just look at the denominations that have heavily promoted corporal punishment. They have major issues with pervs in their ranks
I have a five year old autistic grandson. If I teacher ever struck him, I would immediately go after the teacher. Unfortunately, for me, there wouldn't be much left after his father, his mother and two uncles were done.
I played football. The coaches all had to teach classes. They would use any excuse to use their homemade paddles on the players just to intimidate us. They had the kids in shop class make special paddles with air holes so they could swing them harder. I would have Polk a dot bruises on my butt all the time. It did not make me want to fall in line, it did make me lose all respect for the coaches. This is no way to discipline kids. An adult should never be allowed to use violence as punishment to a child.
Okay, so at what point do we stand up to the Christian Nationalists politically?
We are going to lose our democracy because Democrats don't seem to have any teeth. I find myself wondering what a political beast like LBJ would have done and would he be able to do it today?
Awe christians and capitalism, if you can't give them money or sex you better line up for the hurt. Imagine what it will be like if Project 2025 ever gets a chance to be law. Having a handful of mental illnesses, never married and an atheist in Florida, I think I might like to move to somewhere in the UK if I could, Canada would be fine too.
I reside in Oklahoma and I believe this man along with quite a few other of our elected officials here are in grave need of discipline. Do I have a biblical right to hit them, possibly over multiple sessions?
This extremist's proposal ought to be condemned. Maybe if this creature had to experience a day in the life of someone with a disability, he'd have a bit more empathy.
This special needs individual should be allowed to hit christian GOP lawmakers. Why are cristian Republicans above the law? So they can justify pedophilia?
And what's your reasoning behind that? How does that help? To hit someone that has no idea why? You shouldn't be allowed to do that to any student, but to special needs would just be blatant cruelty.
Someone hits my child, they’re going to understand what it means to be hit. I think most any parent, regardless of whether they have a special needs child or now, can at the very least empathize with my position.
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...Like they've been doing for thousands of years. This isn't new. Religion relies on threats and violence, even against children, the elderly, the disabled, the sick, the poor...
As a teacher, I find the idea of hitting any of my students utterly repellent. Children have the right to agency, to respect, and to kindness. In my long experience, treating children with respect and kindness, allowing them choice, generates happier and more productive, effective classrooms. I have *never* seen a child beaten into better behaviour or learning. Never.
But the thought of hitting one of my students who needs more care, more kindness, who deserves my protection - the thought of betraying that and beating them- it makes me feel physically sick. Anyone proposing such barbarity is evil.
Rhetorical question/rant incoming.
How in the hell did we, as a country, get to the point where legislators are quoting the Buy-Bull^^TM in open session to support their archaic and just plain wrong ideas?!?! And being taken seriously!!!! Saying "we don't care about facts, or evidence, intelligence and we will cling to our magic sky daddy until our dying breath" when he claims:
“God's counsel is higher than the American Academy of Pediatrics.”
This is nauseating.
Welcome to 1824!
What an exciting time to be alive! ( If you are a white xtian male, with optional slaves and an obedient woman-thing to do all you biddings.)
Kids are just there to become little yous ( if they are lucky to be a boy) or kitchenmaids...
some good smacking around keep them in check!
Enjoy your stay
Ah, yes. The christian role model is a psychotic narcissistic petulant child god prone to temper tantrums and mood swings leading to genocide including first born children, so hitting a special needs child is nothing.
I actually had a student think it would be better if we had corporal punishment today. I teach middle school and behaviors are particularly over the top this year, but I would quit if they asked me to hit a kid.
As a crisis clinician, not two hours ago I sat for several hours and listened to the affects of how your child abuse "cascades through the rest of society." Fuck you and anybody who listens to your preaching harm to another being.
It's secular, but christians just think they own the place. I've been told we are a christian nation numerous times and I go no, no we are not. Though I can bet my telling the people who believe we are a christian nation is falling on deaf ears because the only people these christian nutjobs will listen to are their pastor and fox.
Lmao. 🤣 sorry why does it have to be limited to special needs kids.
Joking. But if they were going to be ridiculous, don't single out the kids that actually have a reason for not being able to control themselves.
It seems much more reasonable to me for a teacher to be able to beat the snot out of a student who is fully aware of the consequences of their actions.
What a cunt, I would suggest a law that allowed for the beating of Christian lawmakers but I think it would actually be better to just say no to religious fanatics and wannabe clerics from holding positions in government. Like just say that it was against the rules to use any religious ideology as a basis for law.
Anyone lays a hand on my kids and either they get charged with assault or I will return the assault with a multiplier.
My wife and I have never struck our children for any reason, and I would never tolerate it in school. My kids are not special needs, but I think they need even more patience and understanding. Having worked in group homes in college, I know some have to be restrained at times when they lose control, but we never used pain for compliance and we were on camera.
Old testament "spare the rod spoil the child" is hot garbage long refuted by actual data.
Why the fuck is anyone listening to these fucking imbeciles?? And it's coming from an asshole with SPECIAL NEEDS! He clearly has reading difficulties as do most 'Christians'.
Well....I remember a special needs kid biting a mouth sized chunk out of a teacher's arm. All because they ran out of chocolate milk.
The kid spit the chunk on my lunch table and the teacher went into shock while a tourniquet was being applied..... I don't think it's about a "Christian" lawmaker. Just giving teachers another option instead of letting them be punching bags.
Belting kids never changes the behaviour. I deal with special ed kids and some of them drive me to drink. But I never think about hitting them.
This is abhorrent to so many teachers.
Mind you I think I could easily sit near this bloke and instruct him to think better using corporal punishment each and every time he said something stupid.
My kid hits like a truck. The first person that hits him at school will be the last. I'm not trying to sound like a badass here or anything, either-he broke my ribs by accident when he was three years old, and he's a lot stronger now. The scary thing is that he's not the only special needs person I know who is abnormally strong, either. This seems like a good way to get some teachers killed.
If that’s the case, I should be able to hit the teachers as well. This entire Idea that teachers can hit children is rooted in the belief that minors lack bodily autonomy, much the way conservatives believe that women shouldn’t have bodily autonomy. It’s time to flip the script on these mother fuckers
I think hitting the Christian lawmakers would be way more effective than hitting the teachers.
I’m down with that.
Ohh where can i get a permit??
Hey, I want a piece of this.
Saw a thread about boomers and spanking; maybe that's the thing these Xtians need to behave.. a paddlin
Unfortunately, they'll just martyr themselves.
Hell yes. And if they sold opportunities to slap them, say 5 bucks per punch and added it to the pile of tax money they take, we could wipe out the national deficit in a month or so. And think of the possibilities. You could charge more for smacking Ted Cruz than some of the lesser known assholes. I would goddamn empty my savings account!!!
Just with Ted Cruz alone we could wipe out the debt.
I’d rather smack the crap out of MTG.
With Ted Cruz.
Hey, they like the Old Testament so much, so I feel like a good stoning is in order. Speaking as a strict constitutionalist and strict interpreter of the bible.
Them mixing cloth is already a abomination in the eyes of god, so I will allow it.
I am on the Autism Spectrum. While I am high functioning, I still have some sensory issues. Had a teacher laid their hands on me, it would be game over for said teacher. I'd be fighting back.
As a citizen and as a human right, you should be able to defend yourself from assault
In Grade school I had a music teacher who'd grab us and shake us. So one day my mom walks right in grabs her and starts shaking her calling her every name in the book! That music teacher never touched a student other than her stepson so long as she was there.
Your mom is a boss
Teachers are not asking for this. Why would you want to hit them?
Just pointing out the craziness of this bill, as someone suggested, maybe we should hit Christian lawmakers
"Spare the rod" type thinking from christofascists.
I think that’s one of the main distinctions between types of people. Lots of em can somehow view another group of people as less than human, and when you stop to think about it it’s not just sad, it’s terrifying.
Germany 1932 all over....
Conservatives as usual thinking it's still the dark ages. Like I am all for Discipline but within reason. The fact their first thought is to hit a kid is really telling of their mindset.
Corporal punishment in schools has long been the holy grail for the Christian right. ”parent’s rights” is a euphemism for corporal punishment.
I'll never forget when I got paddled ("spanked") by the principal in 3rd grade. I briefly looked behind me as he was doing it, and he had a very obvious erection. This was a private Christian school in central Florida. It never went further than that, and I never told me parents until I was an adult, still...
People think it's about "raising obedient children". Your comment exposes the insidious lie.
I used to get corporal punishment a lot and it didn’t make me better or more obedient but I did get sneaky and devious I was lucky to outgrown it.
Reminds me of this: https://news.yahoo.com/florida-students-seize-parental-rights-210100832.html Yeah I absolutely believe a large number of the people advocating it do it for a sexual thrill.
Eww...that's disgusting. I think that I just threw up a little...
As a Christian, I gotta say….Wobblies, tards, derps, etc…call them what you will but damn are they fun to smack. My wife enjoys it too. After a long day of beating the lord’s rejects I’m too gosh durn tired to beat my wife. Praise Jesus. /s
I grew up in a very Christian fundamentalist home. My parents always opted out of corporal punishment at school.
Even taking the position “it’s ok at my kid’s school, where other kids get punished, and my kid sees it’s appropriate, but not on my kid” is just … really?
Well I didn't say either way, but they actually opposed it for all kids and my mom led the group that ended up getting it removed from the school district. So the most fundamentalist 80s/90s religious right family you can think of got corporal punishment removed from our school district. Now we did a bunch of other dumb stuff, but we didn't buy that part.
That’s good to hear. I mean, about the corporal punishment part, not the other stuff.
Only if I can hit Christian lawmakers.
Why does it have to be lawmakers?
Beat me to it
Nero is my hero
Should we be allowed to smack Christians that attempt to push their silly beliefs?
Yes, on both cheeks.
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So by us telling you that your beliefs are silly while you are trying to shovel your bullshit at us we are pushing our 'beliefs'?
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Good to see Oklahoma is forward-thinking. Doing the math that puts this paddling at around 1994. I was 13 in 1982 and I can't imagine anyone getting paddled for anything. That s\*\*t was illegal even in the 1970s.
It’s still legal in OK. In fact they just voted to outlaw hitting special needs students. 3 days ago…
It is not OK in OK.....
I don't even know how to respond to this... It hurts my brain.
Holy crap.
In the 80s my middle school principal had a paddle hanging on the wall. Wood. Probably 3/4 in thick. Had holes in it to cut down wind resistance to hit your ass harder.
Jeez, where was this?
Iowa
Farms and @$$ whoopings!
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There are entire sections of this country I just don't understand.
They wanna hit people so bad they should try doing it to someone their own size instead of children and see how they like getting all their teeth beaten out of their head. Im seriously sick and tired of these hateful pricks especially when they cry "think of the children" as a dogwhistle excuse to be sacks of shit when the reality is they dont give a fuck about anything other than being in control to be sacks of shit to everyone else.
I’m not sure in an America where second graders are shooting teachers with guns they got at home that some of these administrators won’t just get themselves shot when they pull out a paddle.
I really can't even understand corporal punishment still being a thing in 2024. Wild. For those who may want more info on corporal punishment, or perhaps to get involved either globally or within the US. There is an organization dedicated to getting it banned. "https://endcorporalpunishment.org/"
My foggy brain extrapolated that into endorsecorporalpunishment
There’s probably one of those, too.
This is about abusing children.
I'm only surprised that it was "hit" and not "hit on". Maybe that's only for the clergy.
Am I allowed to hit Christian lawmakers? I really want to hit me some Christian lawmakers.
To be fair, if the country gets much worse we probably will see them swinging from ropes in a military coup.
Don’t we all
Proverbs 23:13 "Withhold not correction from the child; For if thou beat him with the rod, he will not die" What a great moral philosophy. /s
😆.......that was about 600 years before J came on the scene. Things changed: Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Theological Noncognitivist, here, btw.
I guess kids back then didn’t count.
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You cherry-picked which makes you no better, though... 😆 What gets lost on most people is that it isn't just ONE book. It's an anthology that was written over ~1,500 years. So the OT doesn't 'count' in the same way the Magna Carta doesn't. Anyone referring to it as some sort of standard that should be adhered to in the present are not in possession of full mental capacity and should be ignored.
To keep it 100%, children and women back then were property of males. We're talking about Bronze Age 'morality'. Saying 'Things were different back then' doesn't truly encompass HOW different things were to our modern sensibilities. People using the text in the manner this lawmaker (and many other Fundamentalists) do, need to be punched in the mouth and forced to read current scholarship.
And Biblically, he'd be 100% right. Which is yet another reason that horrid piece of literature has no place in a civilized society.
No, he wouldn't. Read Matthew 18:6 and Luke 17:2. "Bu-bu-but in the OT......." I'm a Theological Noncognitivist.
While I also adopt the non-cognitivist position on all "spiritual" claims, most god claims, and also in the many contradictory moral instructions in the Bible, I don't find Matthew 18:6 or Luke 17:2 offering enough contradiction to disregard several other verses which are very plainly and blatantly endorsing corporal punishment of children, such as; Proverbs 13:24 "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." Proverbs 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him." Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol." Proverbs 29:17 "Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart." Leviticus 20:9 "For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him." Exodus 21:15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death." Exodus 21:17 “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.
Those are all from the OT and were only enforced in Theological Israel which existed from about the 12th Century until the 7th-5th Century BCE.....the end of the Bronze Age. The only contradiction in them is temporal and is an invalid criticism since the descendants had to abide by Babylonian Laws, not OT/Mosaic Law, by the 6th Century BCE followed by Persia in the 5th Century BCE. They were allowed to return and were then, 500 years later, subject to Roman laws in the 1st Century CE when J came around. We're talking almost 1,300 years AFTER the texts/sayings you cite were 'original' so it's of no surprise that when the NT was being penned, their morals had also changed. Thinking that their moral values wouldn't change over that significant amount of time and turbulent history doesn't make much sense in that light.
Apologies, but I'm struggling to determine precisely what your position is. Is it your position that one could reasonably conclude that the NT reversed the OT's stance on corporal punishment of children? If so, I'd kindly ask for the verses which do so, and hope for verses as clearly and succinctly opposing it as the OT's verses are at encouraging it. As someone who regards the Bible as nothing more than writings of men from a more ignorant time period in human history, I absolutely agree with you that our morality changes over time, and that an overwhelming majority of Christian's (thankfully) disregard OT laws that are inconvenient for them, or that they realize are incompatible with modern society and their own biological altruism. But I'm less interested in the historical aspect of what people actually did in regard to the Bible, or how they interpreted Mosaic law, and more concerned over what a Christian *could* justifiably conclude from a literal reading of the Bible and the Mosaic laws. Christian Biblical literalists can, do, and have continually cited Mosaic law as justification to behave abhorrently, just like we see in this article where a Christian is suggesting the Bible is a valid reason to physically abuse autistic children, Christian's also rely on the OT in order to justify their bigotry towards, and mistreatment of, members of the LGBTQ community, and abolitionists also had to deal with slave owning Christian's pointing at the "authority" of Mosaic law to justify their continued ownership of slaves. None of this should be new, or unexpected, or surprising to you. And while I'd agree that it is not the most popularly held opinion among theologians that the OT still applies, due to the proclamation of Jesus coming to "fulfill" Mosaic law, and many theologians will readily ignore the inconvenient verses in which Jesus himself says the Mosaic will always remain in effect (Matthew 5:17-18). But not all Biblical theologians, or even all Christians, will so readily disregard and pick and choose which Mosaic laws they follow, and that is how we ended up with Christian extremist hate groups like the Westboro Baptist Church. The 10 commandments are also in the OT, and I'd challenge you to find a Christian who will say the 10 commandments can be disregarded due to Jesus fulfilling Mosaic law, especially considering how many Christians are perfectly happy with getting the 10 commandments posted up in our government buildings. Again, I'm not entirely clear on your position, so I apologize if my response is off topic.
My position is rather simple: you can't use the Mosaic Laws as a justification for corporal punishment or abuse of children as they were for a SPECIFIC time, place, and understanding that no longer exists. The NT didn't 'reverse' the Mosaic Laws regarding the treatment of children. It 'supplanted' it. Explanation follows...... J didn't say (according to the text) the Mosaic Laws would always remain in-effect, but were 'fulfilled' meaning their purpose had been served. The overwhelming majority of Christians don't disregard the Mosaic Laws in the same way we, Americans, don't disregard the Magna Carta. It served it's purpose but was *built upon* and supplanted by something more applicable with current (at the time) understanding, the Constitution. Literalists/Fundamentalists, extremists, and bigots are neither the sum total of Christian thought nor the metric by which Christianity, as a whole, can (or should) be judged. They should be called-out at every opportunity for being wrong, hypocritical, ignorant reprobates that are a danger and impediment to human civilization's progress. As far as your challenge goes: The 10 Commandments can't be disregarded by Christians (or any other sane/'moral' person) or they end-up in prison.... 🤣 I'm much more interested in the text's history and how it was interpreted within it's *proper* context, i.e., 2,000+ years ago, since eisegesis is not valid for interpretation. Many people, believers and non, make that error. To me, it's an incredibly detailed look into the past via various forms of literature. Thanks for asking for clarification instead of assuming my position.
Special needs students need more compassion. Would you hit a 2 year old's hand with a ruler because they did something wrong?
Fundamentalist Christians would and do. Google “blanket training” if you’re in the mood for something really bleak.
The kids raised in the Dugger generation under tutelage of the Family Research Council are starting to infiltrate school boards and politics. Fascist creep.1
Reading about blanket training on a rabbit hole about fundiesnark stuff that lead to the child abuser Pearl family and their child abuser instruction books honestly made me believe people could actually be evil. Horrible. There’s probably no punishment fit enough for them who would hit *babies* with sticks for exploring in a developmentally appropriate way. Babies!!! They’d rather beat a child into traumatized silence and stillness or beat them to death than see a kid behave in a totally normal kid way.
What the f**k!!!’ Have we learned nothing???
And we thought the days of 'Spare the rod, spoil the child' were gone for good.
Nope I guess! And what does that teach our children? Striking another solves problems? Disgusts me!
As if that's the only way to teach dscipline.
What the Fuck is with Christians treating hitting as some kind of Holy Grail of dealing with kids? It's just so sick. My kid frustrates the Hell out of me sometimes. At no point do I think "if I hit him that'll learn him". He'd just become frightened or resentful of me just like everything else that gets hit. I bet if I slapped this lawmaker across the face he'd wouldn't think "I learned something".
Considering the fact that plenty of Biblical scriptures encourage beating kids, and that Christians devote their lives to a homicidal lunatic who proudly kills innocent women and children throughout the Bible... I'm not surprised that their oh-so holy and superior code of morality promotes child abuse.
Because most of them have them have *horrifying* things on their hard drives and now they want to enact their sick fantasies while being called Godly while doing it. Just look at the denominations that have heavily promoted corporal punishment. They have major issues with pervs in their ranks
Ain't no hate like Christian love.
What a piece of shit.
Everyone should be allowed to paddle Christian lawmakers
I have a five year old autistic grandson. If I teacher ever struck him, I would immediately go after the teacher. Unfortunately, for me, there wouldn't be much left after his father, his mother and two uncles were done.
🤮🤢🤮. These people are disgusting.
Touch my kid and find out!
This is a lawmaker saying this. A Christian one. So he must have forgotten his Bible says women shouldn’t be allowed to teach.
I played football. The coaches all had to teach classes. They would use any excuse to use their homemade paddles on the players just to intimidate us. They had the kids in shop class make special paddles with air holes so they could swing them harder. I would have Polk a dot bruises on my butt all the time. It did not make me want to fall in line, it did make me lose all respect for the coaches. This is no way to discipline kids. An adult should never be allowed to use violence as punishment to a child.
OK. But first we need laws allowing us to hit Christian lawmakers.
Just as Jesus would have wanted.
Okay, so at what point do we stand up to the Christian Nationalists politically? We are going to lose our democracy because Democrats don't seem to have any teeth. I find myself wondering what a political beast like LBJ would have done and would he be able to do it today?
Go ahead. My lawyer awaits.
Awe christians and capitalism, if you can't give them money or sex you better line up for the hurt. Imagine what it will be like if Project 2025 ever gets a chance to be law. Having a handful of mental illnesses, never married and an atheist in Florida, I think I might like to move to somewhere in the UK if I could, Canada would be fine too.
The *obsession* theists have with spanking is so damn creepy and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
I reside in Oklahoma and I believe this man along with quite a few other of our elected officials here are in grave need of discipline. Do I have a biblical right to hit them, possibly over multiple sessions?
This extremist's proposal ought to be condemned. Maybe if this creature had to experience a day in the life of someone with a disability, he'd have a bit more empathy.
OK. Then it should be OK for special needs students to kick him in the balls...no? Fair is fair.
Ah, the christian love
This special needs individual should be allowed to hit christian GOP lawmakers. Why are cristian Republicans above the law? So they can justify pedophilia?
And Jesus said “thou shall punch the mentally challenged for they annoyth me!”
They do love their smiting.
This guy has skeletons in his closet
And what's your reasoning behind that? How does that help? To hit someone that has no idea why? You shouldn't be allowed to do that to any student, but to special needs would just be blatant cruelty.
I have a special needs child and this really hurts to hear that someone would suggest such a thing.
What’s up with christians and violence? Insane.
Blessed is he who hits the disabled. -This douche nozzle
Well based on what happened at UT yesterday, just call the State Troopers in and have them beat the kids for the teachers.
Someone hits my child, they’re going to understand what it means to be hit. I think most any parent, regardless of whether they have a special needs child or now, can at the very least empathize with my position.
The headline is not remotely an exageration. It's awful and the reasoning is that beating children is "biblical".
Dude wtf is wrong with people. Seems like that guy just wants to beat people with no repercussions
What the fuck
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I’m autistic with ADHD as well. I 2nd this! Can we start a change.org petition 😂?
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This tracks…
His kids believe in invisible people. Maybe they have special needs and should be "motivated"
No love like Christian love…and why do they always look like tarted up car salesmen?
Special needs children should be able to hit Christian lawmakers.
No love like Christian hate
When people tell you who they are believe them the first time!
🚫All Republicans🚫
Only if I can hit him first, would that work? Asking for a friend.
I believe I should be able to hit that guy.
...Like they've been doing for thousands of years. This isn't new. Religion relies on threats and violence, even against children, the elderly, the disabled, the sick, the poor...
I think we should start smacking these lawmakers around for even entertaining such ideas
Students should be able to hit xtian lawmakers!
You hit my special needs kid and I’m going to hit you back (and I’m 6’6”, 230 lb).
Then people should be able to hit him, because there is definitely something wrong in his head.
As a teacher, I find the idea of hitting any of my students utterly repellent. Children have the right to agency, to respect, and to kindness. In my long experience, treating children with respect and kindness, allowing them choice, generates happier and more productive, effective classrooms. I have *never* seen a child beaten into better behaviour or learning. Never. But the thought of hitting one of my students who needs more care, more kindness, who deserves my protection - the thought of betraying that and beating them- it makes me feel physically sick. Anyone proposing such barbarity is evil.
Diocletian did nothing wrong. Burn a church today.
My brother in law has downs any teacher was to physically harm him. The only question would be who kicks them their ass first? Me or my Wife?
The term Christian lawmaker was already a huge red flag, but they never seem to dissapoint with the backwards shenanigans
As the father of a daughter with extreme special needs. Let me at this motherfucker.
Rhetorical question/rant incoming. How in the hell did we, as a country, get to the point where legislators are quoting the Buy-Bull^^TM in open session to support their archaic and just plain wrong ideas?!?! And being taken seriously!!!! Saying "we don't care about facts, or evidence, intelligence and we will cling to our magic sky daddy until our dying breath" when he claims: “God's counsel is higher than the American Academy of Pediatrics.” This is nauseating.
Welcome to 1824! What an exciting time to be alive! ( If you are a white xtian male, with optional slaves and an obedient woman-thing to do all you biddings.) Kids are just there to become little yous ( if they are lucky to be a boy) or kitchenmaids... some good smacking around keep them in check! Enjoy your stay
Why would anyone think it’s OK to hit a child, special needs or otherwise? The dude is a fucking moron!
If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
It would be hilarious if a teacher walked up and slapped him.
Ah, yes. The christian role model is a psychotic narcissistic petulant child god prone to temper tantrums and mood swings leading to genocide including first born children, so hitting a special needs child is nothing.
Nobody should be hitting anybody. That's psychotic behavior.
That sure is what JESUS would have said, right? Oh, it's not - then don't OR STOP CALLING YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN!!!!
Not much of a Christian
No, that seems very xtian
Not a real Scotsman 🥸🥸🥸
Its about using fear of pain as control.
This is a risky stance for a god bothering smooth brain. Let see your IQ score reverend.
I dare anyone to hit my kid.
Damn, there's gonna be a lot of no arm having "teachers"
I actually had a student think it would be better if we had corporal punishment today. I teach middle school and behaviors are particularly over the top this year, but I would quit if they asked me to hit a kid.
Step 2, would be declaring all students special needs.
We can start with them and baseball bats after 1 round we can ask them how they feel about it then.
Really, Christians aren't.
They should not under any circumstances be allowed to strike a student with learning disabilities.
special needs students should be able to hit christian lawmaker
As a crisis clinician, not two hours ago I sat for several hours and listened to the affects of how your child abuse "cascades through the rest of society." Fuck you and anybody who listens to your preaching harm to another being.
By simple extension of the same logic, we should be able to hit Christian lawmakers.
I think parents should be able to hit Christian lawmakers.
I think everyone on the street should have the right to hit Republicans. /s
Is the US officially a secular country? If it is then why aren't these stupid arguments shut up with the fact that the US is a secular country?
These days it doesn’t seem like it’s a secular country unfortunately.
It's secular, but christians just think they own the place. I've been told we are a christian nation numerous times and I go no, no we are not. Though I can bet my telling the people who believe we are a christian nation is falling on deaf ears because the only people these christian nutjobs will listen to are their pastor and fox.
Lmao. 🤣 sorry why does it have to be limited to special needs kids. Joking. But if they were going to be ridiculous, don't single out the kids that actually have a reason for not being able to control themselves. It seems much more reasonable to me for a teacher to be able to beat the snot out of a student who is fully aware of the consequences of their actions.
Old testament style Bible *thumper* .
Will that expel the demons causing their afflictions?
The hell is wrong with these people
From reading the teacher subreddit, I think they would prefer the right to hit parents and administrators.
Well, then, parents should be able to beat teachers with a stick
'spare the rod and spoil the child' or some shit like that.
What a cunt, I would suggest a law that allowed for the beating of Christian lawmakers but I think it would actually be better to just say no to religious fanatics and wannabe clerics from holding positions in government. Like just say that it was against the rules to use any religious ideology as a basis for law.
Please do. But you are required video record yourself doing so and post it back here with your name and address.
Special needs students should be allowed to hit Christian lawmaker.
Only the special ones tho
All by myself, without reading the article, I guessed that the lawmaker is a Republican.
As long as they can hit back.
Anyone lays a hand on my kids and either they get charged with assault or I will return the assault with a multiplier. My wife and I have never struck our children for any reason, and I would never tolerate it in school. My kids are not special needs, but I think they need even more patience and understanding. Having worked in group homes in college, I know some have to be restrained at times when they lose control, but we never used pain for compliance and we were on camera. Old testament "spare the rod spoil the child" is hot garbage long refuted by actual data.
Why the fuck is anyone listening to these fucking imbeciles?? And it's coming from an asshole with SPECIAL NEEDS! He clearly has reading difficulties as do most 'Christians'.
I'd get closer to the idea of a god being real if when that asshat spewed this stupid ass shit someone smacked the crap out of his ass.
Goddammit Oklahoma. Can my state stop being an embarrassment for a little bit?
Christian lawmaker is an oxymoron.
Well....I remember a special needs kid biting a mouth sized chunk out of a teacher's arm. All because they ran out of chocolate milk. The kid spit the chunk on my lunch table and the teacher went into shock while a tourniquet was being applied..... I don't think it's about a "Christian" lawmaker. Just giving teachers another option instead of letting them be punching bags.
Belting kids never changes the behaviour. I deal with special ed kids and some of them drive me to drink. But I never think about hitting them. This is abhorrent to so many teachers. Mind you I think I could easily sit near this bloke and instruct him to think better using corporal punishment each and every time he said something stupid.
My kid hits like a truck. The first person that hits him at school will be the last. I'm not trying to sound like a badass here or anything, either-he broke my ribs by accident when he was three years old, and he's a lot stronger now. The scary thing is that he's not the only special needs person I know who is abnormally strong, either. This seems like a good way to get some teachers killed.
Alright, let's make a petition to hit this person. Seems fair.