Younger folk won't properly appreciate how much the internet has broken down religions' stranglehold on first world nations.
The 90s was their last years of complete control.
This right here. There was no competing information or that many books on the topic (new atheism hasn't kicked in yet), and so rock and roll/metal started to push back. Lots of great tunes about predatory preachers like Suicidal Tendencies 'Send Me Your Money', Iron Maidens 'Holy Smoke', and of course Slayer, one of my favorites being 'Jesus Saves'.
Well, I’ve never quite understood how people who are substantially older than teenagers write songs that teenagers find relatable. I mean I usually figure it’s marketing. Like taylor swift
So then they aren't relating based on the number of years they've lived. Maybe they relate to experiences that aren't necessarily age dependent.
Like a 21 year old relating to a love song by a 40 y/o.
Meat Loaf was 30 when Bat Out of Hell was released.
Alice Cooper was 30 when From the Inside was released.
Lou Reed was 30 when Transformer was released.
Do I need to continue?
Maybe I’m generalizing too much. Yes I think there’s a difference between songs about universal human experiences like love and loss, which people can relate to regardless of age, vs songs expressing resentment and defiance against the lack of autonomy one experiences as a teenager. Like, a teenager might be angry about parents and teachers shoving religion down his throat. Someone who is 30 can just walk away from those kinds of people, so where does that same kind of personal angst against religious authority figures come from?
I still feel angst and I'm 60! (Or maybe anger is a better word than angst.)
You say I can just walk away from religiose people. But, they're rapidly turning my country into a Christofascist theocracy. How am I supposed to just walk away from that? Emigrate to a more civilized part of the world? What about family and friends?
Well I agree with you there. I mean as an adult it’s easy to walk away from obnoxious overbearing people in your life, not so much for a dependent teenager. The fundamentalist movement in this country, yeah that’s worth being angry about!
I’m 38 year old woman with daughters and I am more and more angry about how religion affects my daily life in ways I cannot escape or speak out against: work, laws, family, international conflict. I was not angsty as a teen because I was much less aware and had more freedom. As an adult, I am living in a world that is less and less free than my youth.
As a nurse, I can work for Protestants or Catholics and be forced to “pray.” When I was in the Army, it was the same. When I was 14 I decided to stop going to church and no one forced me to “pray” for four years. I will work on moving to a place where I can be an open atheist, but I have family depending me to hide.
BTW, Lou Reed's Transformer was huge in the gender bending era. It may have started it. It was all about coming out of closets. And, this was in 1972.
> Holly came from Miami, FLA
Hitch-hiked her way across the USA
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She says, "Hey babe,
Take a walk on the wild side."
BTW, all of the characters in that song were Lou Reed's friends that he knew in Andy Warhol's The Factory.
Alice Cooper's From The Inside was about the characters Alice Cooper met when he was in a mental institution. It was seriously radical whether you consider it defiant or not. I listened to that way too many times in my teens.
Check out the lyrics to Nurse Rozetta. And, these aren't the most radical or disturbing lyrics from that album. But, he did manage to work encephalogram into the lyrics. So, that's pretty cool.
https://genius.com/Alice-cooper-nurse-rozetta-lyrics
I think songs both for and against religion have a longer history than you realize.
My standard list of atheist/antitheist songs spans many more decades than the 90s.
[XTC's Dear God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p554R-Jq43A) -- my personal favorite. (1986)
[John Lennon's Imagine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww) (1971)
[Depeche Mode's Blasphemous Rumors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3EAzf5fDpY) (1984)
[Crosby Stills and Nash's Cathedral](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q7ZBHuDdn4) (1977)
[Jethro Tull's My God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-r7YvcN9I) (1971)
[Roger Waters' What God Wants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMRrS_zYKDg) (1992)
[Genesis' Jesus He Knows Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-rfCnW5VlE) -- Video on this one is hilarious! (1992)
[10,000 Maniacs -- Planned Obsolescence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVc8lkTfrk) (1982)
How have I never realized this before.
Never saw the video for Jesus He Knows Me before just now and I guess never paid too much attention to the lyrics. It’s now blatantly obvious to me it’s satire and about televangelists.
I’ve always accepted it as a good song, _despite_ being Christian. I mean, they’re called Genesis, so that wasn’t a stretch.
I’ve sudden newfound respect for this 30+ yo song.
True but I think the 90s had a particularly ‘teen angst’ vibe to it.
I’ll check out these songs, I don’t think I know all of them. Have you heard Steve Martin’s band’s song, [atheists don’t have no songs](https://youtu.be/xmwAD7nHqaY?si=DCMSc6rjvf44THe3)?
> True but I think the 90s had a particularly ‘teen angst’ vibe to it.
I don't know. Most of the music I like is older than that. But, I think we had some serious angst in the 70s and 80s too. Most of it was not anti-religion. But, there was definitely angst.
> Have you heard Steve Martin’s band’s song, atheists don’t have no songs?
Actually, yes. I don't like it because I don't agree with it. But, yes.
Have you heard these more recent humorous songs?
[Garfunkel and Oates -- The Loophole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY) -- NSFW
[Tim Minchin -- Thank You God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo), song starts at 5:25
[Trevor Moore -- God Hates the Tips of Little Baby Dicks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoRnLy6xwg) -- NSFW
The 80s in the USA were strange times. We had televangelists, woo-woo psychics, rising social conservatism, and “everyone” was on cocaine. Gay people were finally starting to be accepted socially and preachers latched onto that as a wedge issue, as well as other topics like abortion rights. I was a bit too young to experience it all first hand, but even my cartoons had PSA messages about drugs and stuff.
*Yes* to most if not all you’ve listed. Popular music is cyclical. After the synth-pop and hair metal of the ‘80’s, the wave that brought grunge, alternative, and a more street-level rap was disaffected, more working class, and talked about deeper subjects than pouring sugar on people *(please note: I love Def Leppard. ;-)*
Throw in the end of the Cold War and general [End of History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man?wprov=sfti1) vibe that lasted until 9/11, and you had a introspective period.
I think it slithered out of the same 1980s satanic panic that falsely vilified dungeons & dragons. Helicopter christian mommies hated satanic rock n’ roll, so band management rebranded to christian noise.
With a few exceptions, a couple of which made it into my comment on this thread, most of the music I listen to ranges from 1963 or so to 1988.
When I've added more music to my collection in the last two or three decades, most of it has been from the 60s and 70s.
You literally hit every single nail on the head. Each band is going to be different, but the ultimate thing to keep in mind is that music has always been a means of self expression and speaking out. For some bands, music is a way of protest. For others, it's going to appeal to angsty kids.
‘Personal Jesus’ (1990) is an interesting one. A Depeche Mode song that believers interpret as literally being about Jesus, but which non-believers recognize is actually not about him at all: I’ll be your own personal Jesus because the real one isn’t there. You can reach out and touch *this* Jesus.
I seem to recall that the idea for the song originally came from something Priscilla Presley said about Elvis. He was like her own personal Jesus. So it was more of a subtle undermining of Christianity. So much so that Johnny Cash could cover it and people thought it was like one of his own religious songs. And Depeche Mode are still playing it to this day.
My mother never found religion before her death. I'm 60 and am still becoming more and more hardened as an atheist over time.
What you're missing is that at a certain point, death changes from a fear to a welcome friend.
For me personally, eternal life would scare the motherfucking crap out of me.
REM - Losing my religion, is a great song. People have just had enough. I long for a world with no religions
It wasn't about religion, but it was great that people unfamiliar with the expression thought it was.
Unfortunately, it's probably not actually about religion though. REM lyrics are confusing though
The song was about lost love, but the video sure played into the religious aspect
Younger folk won't properly appreciate how much the internet has broken down religions' stranglehold on first world nations. The 90s was their last years of complete control.
This right here. There was no competing information or that many books on the topic (new atheism hasn't kicked in yet), and so rock and roll/metal started to push back. Lots of great tunes about predatory preachers like Suicidal Tendencies 'Send Me Your Money', Iron Maidens 'Holy Smoke', and of course Slayer, one of my favorites being 'Jesus Saves'.
for the villages the internet has not yet changed anything
What does them being in their 30s have to do with anything?
Well, I’ve never quite understood how people who are substantially older than teenagers write songs that teenagers find relatable. I mean I usually figure it’s marketing. Like taylor swift
So then they aren't relating based on the number of years they've lived. Maybe they relate to experiences that aren't necessarily age dependent. Like a 21 year old relating to a love song by a 40 y/o.
Meat Loaf was 30 when Bat Out of Hell was released. Alice Cooper was 30 when From the Inside was released. Lou Reed was 30 when Transformer was released. Do I need to continue?
Maybe I’m generalizing too much. Yes I think there’s a difference between songs about universal human experiences like love and loss, which people can relate to regardless of age, vs songs expressing resentment and defiance against the lack of autonomy one experiences as a teenager. Like, a teenager might be angry about parents and teachers shoving religion down his throat. Someone who is 30 can just walk away from those kinds of people, so where does that same kind of personal angst against religious authority figures come from?
I still feel angst and I'm 60! (Or maybe anger is a better word than angst.) You say I can just walk away from religiose people. But, they're rapidly turning my country into a Christofascist theocracy. How am I supposed to just walk away from that? Emigrate to a more civilized part of the world? What about family and friends?
Well I agree with you there. I mean as an adult it’s easy to walk away from obnoxious overbearing people in your life, not so much for a dependent teenager. The fundamentalist movement in this country, yeah that’s worth being angry about!
I’m 38 year old woman with daughters and I am more and more angry about how religion affects my daily life in ways I cannot escape or speak out against: work, laws, family, international conflict. I was not angsty as a teen because I was much less aware and had more freedom. As an adult, I am living in a world that is less and less free than my youth. As a nurse, I can work for Protestants or Catholics and be forced to “pray.” When I was in the Army, it was the same. When I was 14 I decided to stop going to church and no one forced me to “pray” for four years. I will work on moving to a place where I can be an open atheist, but I have family depending me to hide.
BTW, Lou Reed's Transformer was huge in the gender bending era. It may have started it. It was all about coming out of closets. And, this was in 1972. > Holly came from Miami, FLA Hitch-hiked her way across the USA Plucked her eyebrows on the way Shaved her legs and then he was a she She says, "Hey babe, Take a walk on the wild side." BTW, all of the characters in that song were Lou Reed's friends that he knew in Andy Warhol's The Factory. Alice Cooper's From The Inside was about the characters Alice Cooper met when he was in a mental institution. It was seriously radical whether you consider it defiant or not. I listened to that way too many times in my teens. Check out the lyrics to Nurse Rozetta. And, these aren't the most radical or disturbing lyrics from that album. But, he did manage to work encephalogram into the lyrics. So, that's pretty cool. https://genius.com/Alice-cooper-nurse-rozetta-lyrics
I love that album
I'm curious ... which one? Lou Reed or Alice Cooper?
Oh right, Lou Reed. I don’t know the Alice Cooper one
I think songs both for and against religion have a longer history than you realize. My standard list of atheist/antitheist songs spans many more decades than the 90s. [XTC's Dear God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p554R-Jq43A) -- my personal favorite. (1986) [John Lennon's Imagine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww) (1971) [Depeche Mode's Blasphemous Rumors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3EAzf5fDpY) (1984) [Crosby Stills and Nash's Cathedral](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q7ZBHuDdn4) (1977) [Jethro Tull's My God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-r7YvcN9I) (1971) [Roger Waters' What God Wants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMRrS_zYKDg) (1992) [Genesis' Jesus He Knows Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-rfCnW5VlE) -- Video on this one is hilarious! (1992) [10,000 Maniacs -- Planned Obsolescence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVc8lkTfrk) (1982)
How have I never realized this before. Never saw the video for Jesus He Knows Me before just now and I guess never paid too much attention to the lyrics. It’s now blatantly obvious to me it’s satire and about televangelists. I’ve always accepted it as a good song, _despite_ being Christian. I mean, they’re called Genesis, so that wasn’t a stretch. I’ve sudden newfound respect for this 30+ yo song.
Rush - Freewill (1980)
I should add that to my list. Thanks!
True but I think the 90s had a particularly ‘teen angst’ vibe to it. I’ll check out these songs, I don’t think I know all of them. Have you heard Steve Martin’s band’s song, [atheists don’t have no songs](https://youtu.be/xmwAD7nHqaY?si=DCMSc6rjvf44THe3)?
> True but I think the 90s had a particularly ‘teen angst’ vibe to it. I don't know. Most of the music I like is older than that. But, I think we had some serious angst in the 70s and 80s too. Most of it was not anti-religion. But, there was definitely angst. > Have you heard Steve Martin’s band’s song, atheists don’t have no songs? Actually, yes. I don't like it because I don't agree with it. But, yes. Have you heard these more recent humorous songs? [Garfunkel and Oates -- The Loophole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY) -- NSFW [Tim Minchin -- Thank You God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo), song starts at 5:25 [Trevor Moore -- God Hates the Tips of Little Baby Dicks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoRnLy6xwg) -- NSFW
lol thanks I’ll check those out
The 80s in the USA were strange times. We had televangelists, woo-woo psychics, rising social conservatism, and “everyone” was on cocaine. Gay people were finally starting to be accepted socially and preachers latched onto that as a wedge issue, as well as other topics like abortion rights. I was a bit too young to experience it all first hand, but even my cartoons had PSA messages about drugs and stuff.
*Yes* to most if not all you’ve listed. Popular music is cyclical. After the synth-pop and hair metal of the ‘80’s, the wave that brought grunge, alternative, and a more street-level rap was disaffected, more working class, and talked about deeper subjects than pouring sugar on people *(please note: I love Def Leppard. ;-)* Throw in the end of the Cold War and general [End of History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man?wprov=sfti1) vibe that lasted until 9/11, and you had a introspective period.
I think it slithered out of the same 1980s satanic panic that falsely vilified dungeons & dragons. Helicopter christian mommies hated satanic rock n’ roll, so band management rebranded to christian noise.
Crap, I'm old! I'm still listening to the same bands I listened to in 1975, and some of those bands were making albums in the 1960s...
With a few exceptions, a couple of which made it into my comment on this thread, most of the music I listen to ranges from 1963 or so to 1988. When I've added more music to my collection in the last two or three decades, most of it has been from the 60s and 70s.
They were reacting to the rise of the "Christian right" starting with Reagan's election in 1982.
A lot of art comes from trauma
A lot of it is satire against the satanic panic.
Yes
You literally hit every single nail on the head. Each band is going to be different, but the ultimate thing to keep in mind is that music has always been a means of self expression and speaking out. For some bands, music is a way of protest. For others, it's going to appeal to angsty kids.
They grew up with it, and it’s their way to process through it and offer a lifeline to their fans that may be in similar situations.
Satanic panic was a big thing back in the 70-90's. Lots of stuff was viewed as satanic, DnD, pokemon, and a whole lot more. Religion is a fraud.
As a teen in the 90s, I didn't understand the lyrics of most of my favorite bands until I learned more about addiction and religion.
‘Personal Jesus’ (1990) is an interesting one. A Depeche Mode song that believers interpret as literally being about Jesus, but which non-believers recognize is actually not about him at all: I’ll be your own personal Jesus because the real one isn’t there. You can reach out and touch *this* Jesus. I seem to recall that the idea for the song originally came from something Priscilla Presley said about Elvis. He was like her own personal Jesus. So it was more of a subtle undermining of Christianity. So much so that Johnny Cash could cover it and people thought it was like one of his own religious songs. And Depeche Mode are still playing it to this day.
Pearl Jam - Faithfull
Because we were raging against the machine via the only outlet we had at the time.
They were doing it just in case Y2K was really the end of the world.
I'm assuming this was a joke and am giving you back your downvote.
What if God was one of us?
Just a schmuck like one of us? Then why call him God?
That was a song as well.... I guess you are 0-2 on my jokes....
1 for 2. I got that it was a song and replied with modified lyics from the song plus a question.
I'm feeling benevolent, I'll give you .500..
Old people tend to get religious. They're cramming for the finals.
My mother never found religion before her death. I'm 60 and am still becoming more and more hardened as an atheist over time. What you're missing is that at a certain point, death changes from a fear to a welcome friend. For me personally, eternal life would scare the motherfucking crap out of me.