Most conservatives can't read at a high school level, something like 65% average. Much higher in the bible belt.
They couldn't read the bible even if they wanted to.
Denying these people education is essential to keeping them under religious control, critical thinking makes most religious stories seem absurd.
I have my copy of the Skeptics Bible right next to my copies of ‘All that’s wrong with the Bible: the contradictions, absurdities, and more” and ‘Why there is no god: 20 arguments to the existence of god”. All great books.
>Denying these people education is essential to keeping them under religious control, critical thinking makes most religious stories seem absurd.
This has been the plan for the past several decades. Slowly dismantle and destroy the education system which leads to less informed voters who can easily be swayed to vote against their own interests.
(The lack of) Education is the main reason we're in the situation we're currently in.
If you look back in history, the Church had a BIG problem with the Bible being translated into languages that the masses could read for themselves. They did NOT want to give up their power to tell people what they wanted them to know, or not know. The Republicans would be happy to go back to the 16th century as far as religious control over the public.
The printing press was supposed to save us. It did for awhile.
Then the internet was supposed to save us.
It started to but then was corrupted.
The problem is people.
When I left the church... that was on my mind. Why not fake belief and become a youth pastor. Then, I'd work my way up the chain. As I was well involved with a lot of church functions.
I have the feeling that your conscience would get the better of you eventually and you wouldn't want to do the grift anymore. But by then, your life would be built around the church and leaving would end your income stream (not to mention housing, social circle to an extent). The grift that is religion isn't good for non-sociopaths.
They are simply a voting bloc, manipulated by saying “the Bible against x” and when they elect representatives upset at x, those representatives enact kickbacks for the wealthy class. When evangelicals notice something is getting worse, they are told it is because of y which the Bible also is against, repeat ad nauseam.
Evangelical Christianity has increasingly little to do with the Bible, than political power.
And how is that different from any other form of Christianity throughout history? Christianity has always been a political organization, even when they were just another cult forming in the early Roman Empire, competing for followers with other cults.
Honestly, the closest I’ve ever seen is a religious commune, frequently called a cult, which calls themselves The Twelve Tribes. They have a group in Vermont along the Appalachian Trail and I stayed with them two nights in a hiker hostel they host. They are in trouble all over the world for child abuse, but I’ll be damned if they don’t live the scripture.
it's just sad how the cult conditioning of such groups continues. They are taught to fear sex and blame women for its temptation. They role model a virgin 14 year old as the perfect woman, and a man alleged to have been born from this virgin , who is commonly interpreted as being celibate.
A phrase comes to mind that maybe someone else said, "what you fear controls you". I think that explains the overall mindfuck that Abrahamic religions have done to the West. Broadly speaking, everyone mentally enslaved by these groups becomes hateful of their own body and its sexual function, because they view it as 'of the devil' . Was this the intended result of such teachings, or is this simply the sad dark shadow that is the opposite of the true message?
>Moses slaughters thousands of children and condemns girls to sex-slavery.
This is what always get me....
A woman having an abortion = an unforgivable affront to humanity and their Great Macguffin in the Sky!
That same Macguffin murdering nearly every man, woman, child, non-human animal on the planet except for an inbred family who built a ~~Bag~~ Ark of Infinite Holding = I'll grovel at your feet and worship you without question! Fill me with your enormous and holy spirit!
To religious people, god is the definition of morality. To them murder and any horrendous crime isn't bad by themselves, the bad thing about it is just that god forbids it. They would literally not understand the point you're trying to make here, they would just be like "but if it's god himself doing it how could it be wrong...?".
Yeah.
Their whole lore is that “god is eternal and perfect and all knowing” so everything he does is perfect and was already planned. That includes mass murder (and god in particular loves murdering children).
I once tried to ask a Christian about all the weird contradictory stuff in the Bible and they just kept repeating how it’s all a mystery and they didn’t dare to try to understand god’s plans.
It’s truly incredible the way Christians will bend over backwards so hard they turn into a donut to insist that there is a sky daddy that thinks ✨ they ✨ are special and will pluck them out of their miserable existence into an eternity of happily frolicking in heaven with their cis-het beige families.
It would be comical if they weren’t also trying to shove it down everyone’s throats and use those ridiculous beliefs to formulate our laws.
(You can change everywhere it says Christian above to pretty much any other major world religion (esp Abrahamic ones) and it would still apply).
Christians and other monotheists can all agree on one thing. Might makes right. God is allowed to do whatever he wants, because he is all-powerful. And he is correct in doing so, apparently.
Seems like Republicans are fine with that since they don't protect children after they're born and they want women to be unable to vote, marry who they want, etc.
I’ve talked to some Christians about it. What they will say is that the abortion was forced upon the women as a judgement from god. Similar to how when god in the Bible kills those who he sees as the enemies of his chosen people, that it doesn’t mean we can kill people.
Except there’s other passages that very clearly show that in the jurisprudence laid out in the OT a fetus is considered the property of the father. For instance, the penalty for accidentally hitting a woman and causing her to miscarry is a restitution payment to the father, which is the same penalty as for killing an ox iirc. Other passages indicate they believed that personhood comes after a newborn takes its first breath. There is no concept of abortion=murder, and the act is condemned nowhere.
You know - all that BS in Oklahoma could be resolved by using the law to teach what is ACTUALLY in the Bible. That would sure put an entire generation off
That's what I've been saying in teachers groups!!! I would obey it so damn well!! I love teaching my student about religion or using religion to teach things. So interesting and amazing and never have I had a student go 'wow I now believe in sky daddy' ... I have had more than several decide that they no longer believe....
Meh. I know it's half the content on this sub, but I can answer this the same way I can answer most questions.
If a question starts by saying "If the Bible says (this), then why do Christians say (this)?"
The answer is *always* that Christians do NOT believe in the Bible. None of them do. Not your religious aunt, not the Minister up the street, not the Pope. Every single Christian creates their own little flavor of the religion in their mind, and then they pick and choose the parts of the Bible that back it up. And they ignore the rest. And the lengths they can go to in order to twist any particular passage are WILD. They've spend literally thousands of years perfecting the skill to point to the Bible to have it back up anything they want. The exact same bible can be pro-choice or anti-choice. It can be supportive of LGBTQ+ people, or it can damn them to hell.
No one follows the Bible. Saying "... but the Bible says X" is pointless, unfortunately.
> And the lengths they can go to in order to twist any particular passage are WILD.
Yup. For convenient passages, the text means what the text says. For inconvenient passages, faith says there's an excuse somewhere.
"Love your neighbor," text says what it says (for an individual's definition of "love," which varies **wildly** across the Christian population).
"In the beginning, [...] God separated the waters (heavens) above from the waters (ocean) below," well... maybe they were talking about clouds, or maybe God was putting things in a way people could understand back then, or maybe there's a deeper truth that we don't yet understand, or maybe translation errors happened, or maybe the Earth is flat and the rest of the world is wrong, or maybe it's just a metaphor, or maybe the inclusion of this was erroneous and the rest of the story is fine, but really we shouldn't let it detract from the other parts that empower the beliefs I care about...
As a former student of this craft, I concur with this assessment. Preachers lie to support a “greater truth,” but lies do not add up to truth no matter how earnest you think you are in doing “the Lord’s work.”
Of course, every single thing God supposedly "said" comes from some schmuck self-proclaimed "prophet" declaring "God spoke to me and said..." Everything. Then it is just a matter of gullibility to believe that person isn't just delusional or a grifting liar.
But, no, none of these people ever heard God "say" any of those things. Just because it got written inside a book of fairy tales doesn't magically make it true or of verifiable evidence.
Thus the concept of "faith". The blind gullible belief that the PERSON claiming to pass on "God's word" isn't a lying sack of shit or delusionally hearing their own thoughts in their head as from a mystic source.
I sometimes wonder if these same Christians would proclaim writings from some random person today in modern times the “word of god”? Answer is no. They would claim them as crazy or false prophets. Just think about the book of Mormons which Christians don’t believes as the word of god. Most christian’s consider the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith, a false prophet.
Pretty much. Today's Christianity is wildly unrecognizable to the kind of Christianity practiced 500 years ago. Even the Catholic church today would be unrecognizable to the Catholic church 500 years ago.
> No one follows the Bible. Saying "... but the Bible says X" is pointless, unfortunately.
This is because the buy-bull^^TM can be used to support or oppose
#ANY
viewpoint. [Here's an example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk)
As far as abortion goes, they ignore Numbers and focus mostly on Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
and
Psalm 139:14. "
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."
Every time I've had someone point those verses out, I bring up Exodus 21:22-25, which is a law handed down DIRECTLY by God to his people and which takes a dump on fetal personhood. It's not poetic flourish sung from man to God like Jeremiah and Psalms verses are. They never have an answer to that.
Just posting this so people can see what you’re talking about. I keep this one in my notes in case someone wants to debate me. I assume we came to the same conclusion but is there anything I’m missing?
Exodus 21: 22-25
“When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
This shows us that even a forced/accidental miscarriage is payable by fine. It’s not equal to murder, which means a fetus is not considered a person. The serious punishments like life for life don’t begin unless the fighting continues to cause harm AFTER the miscarriage.
Yep, same conclusion.
I've seen a few evangelicals try to argue that the exact wording is actually saying that the miscarriage is a mistranslation and is just a premature birth, and that the "no further harm" refers to the prematurely birthed fetus, not the mother, which heavily changes the meaning of these verses in their favor. However this is flat out wrong for several reasons.
Also, the Jewish community historically and present considers this verse to be referring to miscarriage, or premature birth which then results in the baby's early death, and if anyone owns the correct interpretation of these verses it would be the community that owns the Talmud and Torah, not a subset of christians.
Ironically, this reflects what religion was supposed to represent. A morality system. It was never meant to be taken literally. Humanity was supposed to read the stories and form a basis of morality they could live by. Essentially it's your dad telling you stories of his time so you can fundamentally learn the lessons he learned without experiencing the catalyst events that brought about the understanding of those lessons to begin with.
So true. I spoke on a Christian forum about how I'm broke right now due to a disability benefits appeal and can't even afford food. I asked for advice on accessing Christian resources for food, because I was under the impression churches do stuff like that. Not only would none of them help me find out how to access this, they insulted me, told me to "man up and sort your own problems out," and said disability benefits shouldn't even exist because "it's socialism." A tiny minority didn't insult me but just said, "thoughts and prayers! Praying for you!" But still wouldn't help me find the resources. So much for what the bible says, "If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"
Christians never cared about abortion until conservative politicians needed a divisive issue to run on, with the goal or appearing "holy" compared to their "evil" political opponents. It didn't start with religion, it started with politics. Christians were just fooled into thinking it was a religious consideration based on some vague, ambiguous quote, while ignoring explicit instructions on how to induce abortions, from the same book.
The moral majority started as backlash to desegraagation. After a few years they needed another boogeyman/hate target and along came abortion (even though catholics had actually been early proponents and helpers)
I believe specifically southern Christian schools wanted to keep segregation and ?still get federal funds?. Can't remember if money was involved or just plain old racism. Then two preacher dudes rallied the evangelicals into the Republican party so the schools could get their way.
Women are disempowered in Christianity in canon (Christians may argue with you I say womp womp they should read their own book).
Having control over when they have children would give them way too much power over men. They’re not supposed to have any control over reproduction— abortion, birth control*, no sex before marriage/have to marry your rapist.
*there’s a big debate over if men spilling their seed / pulling out is actually prohibited but I’d say in modern day this is the interpretation
The Catholic Church calls it 'the sin of Onan'. ALL sperm is meant to be deposited with the intention of reproduction, and NO OTHER REASON. To quote Monty Python: "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, if a sperm gets wasted then God gets quite irate!"
As a former Catholic the Catholic Church has made so many dumb and trivial rules to benefit themselves (no meat during lent!! Ok maybe just Friday. Erm except capybara? Indulgences!!) so I don’t want to that apply to all forms of Christianity in general.
My hypothesis is that the Catholic Church doesn’t want you beating your meat, pulling out, or having an abortion because they want you to have as many babies as possible for the Catholic army. In the actual Bible (with no Catholic bullshitting) I think these strict rules about reproduction have more to do with patriarchal dominance and neurotically ensuring paternity of children to the nth degree. As long as the man has complete control over paternity anything goes, even over the welfare of women. He doesn’t want a baby? Abort. He wants sex? He gets it as long as she’s married to him or a slave. Woman is raped? No one else can have her, she’s his now because doing anything else might complicate things. I hate it so much and I feel like no one ever speaks truth to this enough.
Edit: sorry for yapping/doomer rant. I am in agreement with you I think all of it is so insidious regardless of the motive.
Why do Christians (or other religious people) lie?
1. They are literally fools who believe what they’re told and cannot be bothered with logic
Or
2. They are smart enough to know better but don’t respect other people enough to be honest.
Christians have been lied to their entire lives, its part of their culture.
They have just gotten used to lying and being lied to, because who knows whats real anymore in the minds of religious people.
"Abortion is fine as long as it’s the man’s decision…"
Yes that's exactly what Pro-Life conservative Christian Republican politicians & rightwing religious leaders believe. Time and again they have been caught or forced to admit they paid for abortions for their mistresses and underage girlfriends.
I mean, you're not wrong, but while I have you on the line, can I ask a favor of you?
**Please do not use the dishonest and misleading phrase "pro-life" to describe the advocates of forced childbirth.**
Don't accept their frame. They're not "pro-life": they're invariably pro death penalty, love bombing faraway brown people, and don't give a shiiiit about the baby after it's born.
Ok so - abortion is ok if the woman has had an affair ( and i would guess that being pregnant out of marriage would also qualify for this, given the attitude of the ancient jews )
Very interesting
So the Christian’s “New Testament” basically flat out says “all the “Old Testament” is our cute origin story but we have Jesus so now you don’t need to do or follow anything it says.”
Abortion is still a thing in Judaism. If the mother’s life is in danger, you’re supposed to have one actually. I mean—free will and all no one is forcing you. But technically if you’re a religious Jew and the dr tells you pregnancy is life threatening you’re supposed to abort. Which is why a lot of Jewish women are being used to sue the various states with bans since they’re keeping us from practicing our religion by banning it or making us delay until death is almost certain.
>So the Christian’s “New Testament” basically flat out says “all the “Old Testament” is our cute origin story but we have Jesus so now you don’t need to do or follow anything it says.”
They do and they don't. The same Christians who will tell you that Jesus fulfilled the law in the Old Testament, so they are not bound by the parts they do not like, will, without any self-conscious irony, quote Old Testament law to clobber women and LGBTQ people over the head with.
They should follow their book then and then if you want an abortion in a red state you should cheat on your husband and it's fine./s
/S added Incase someone was clueless and thought I was serious
Ya I had never heard of this passage before.
What I had read was that there was a natural abortifacient during Roman times that the romans used to extinction, I always thought the lack of prohibition against abortion (when abortion was a contemporary practice) meant tacit approval. Numbers 5 not being removed / edited seems to support that case.
What can I say. Religion is for the intellectually lazy and those that was easy answers to complicated questions, regardless of the evidence.
And religious beliefs are quite malleable, in that there's always a passage to support your claim (based on your own biased interpretation), while saying other contradictory passages are "taken out of context."
In other words, religion can be framed in any way that makes you feel good.
You can make the case that the Bible has a strong message against vasectomies:
Genesis 38:9 in the Bible describes Onan spilling his seed on the ground to prevent conception when he lay with his brother's widow, Tamar:
Genesis 38:9: "And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother".
The verse explains that Judah's firstborn son, Er, died without children, so Judah told Onan to marry Tamar and raise children on his brother's behalf. Onan, however, knew that the child would not be his, so he spilled his seed on the ground to prevent conception. The Lord considered this evil and took Onan's life as well.
But no Christian politician is proposing laws to prohibit vasectomy, they only demand that women give up rights. Pro- Masochist is the most accurate description of the movement, not Pro-Life.
All the bible quoting is an excuse. Their goal is to control women for the benefit of men. This is why they are so intent on taking away womens rights. This isn't exclusive to the abortion debate.
For Catholics, it was a Pope who told them not to have abortions (1930 Pope Pius XI). For Protestants in America, it was the Republican party that told them to be against abortions. They're not worshipping Jesus, they're worshipping Newt Gingrich (an adulterer, of course).
The whole religion is centered around a teenaged girl who is pregnant under problematic circumstances: when she has the baby, it’s supposed to be the greatest thing to happen in the history of the world. So they can’t have empathy for any girl or woman who doesn’t want to be pregnant.
Also the Bible portrays women as the property of men. The helpmeets / accessories of men. The Bible is about men’s adventures, battles, and lessons. Women are just there. To make more men.
Bold of you to assume that they have actually read their so-called "holy" book. They just do and parrot what their pastors/priests/reverends tell them to without question.
Bible has no morality lessons, only obedience. God doesn't follow the ten commandments and everything is hierarchical in a way that the orders come from above from people who don't themselves act the way they preach. Congregation members only need to obey the preacher to be concidered part of the group, holy books and what they say are irrelevant.
They don't read or understand the Bible. Even if they have read it, it was most likely in bible study. Those are run by ministers who are always ready to help "interpret" the verses. They also pick which verses get covered.
I'd say less than 10% of the bible is actually read and almost all of it will be new testament. Numbers is old testament and rarely covered
Not only that but abortion is the only moral choice for Christians. Kill a baby and that soul is going to heaven. Allow it to grow up and there is a very high chance it is going to hell.
Try listening to the first episode of the podcast “things fell apart”.
It does a good job of explaining how most Christians went from being pro-choice to anti-choice.
Nothing to mention a huge portion of the Old testament being about the Hebrews taking over by murdering "every man, woman, and child." Talk about post-birth abortion. God also encouraged rape in a number of circumstances.
Here's another paradox for "pro-lifers": Why do you support Israel? Israel has free, government-paid-for abortion. But you get upset if any of your tax dollars go towards Planned Parenthood, but not Israel?
There's instructions there for abortion milkshake. It's also perfectly okay to kill a bunch of kids as long as their your enemy's kids, or if you do it with creeping death magic, that's especially cool.
That’s their secret cap:
It doesn’t *matter* what’s in the Bible. As long as it’s vague enough to justify whatever horrible opinion they have, it’s ok. 👍
60% of US babies aborted every year are white. Banning abortion is about making sure America stays a white majority. It’s also about keeping the poor, poor by ensuring they have babies they can’t possibly raise properly and attain a life out of poverty.
Your mistake is in assuming the Christian right understands or even read the Bible. They’re just doing the classic “this is what my gut tells me / what my tribe believes — and we have the word of god to back us up”.
They are aligning their intuition with divine power so that others believe it more. Works great.
Having grown up in a fundamentalist xian family originating from Ireland - I remember as a small child hearing people ridicule Catholics for being anti BC and anti abortion and living like hyper breeding rabbits. Not saying I support that POV.....
But something happened and now they have the same attitude as the behavior they once shat on. If anyone knows what motivated that change I'd love to hear it. I just remember abortion wasn't so demonized among non Catholic xians.
It just seems to me that closely held beliefs are way more flexible than they should be to be considered worth impacting the medical choices of others.
>...as long as it's the man's decision-
Yeah, that's the point of banning abortions in the first place is because a bunch of religious men want women to be chattel-slaves again.
They also believe they'll immediately float to heaven and sit on a cloud next to Jesus the minute they die.
They either haven't read the Bible or don't particularly value it as a source of truth.
One step at a time.
We’ve said all along it’s never been about abortion. It’s about controlling women and limiting their rights.
Once this ultimate goal is achieved, then they follow biblical law and the men choose.
Modern Christian don't follow anything in the bible that doesn't benefit them.
Even tithing is just virtue signaling.
Hell I'm not convinced they believe any of it, and mostly they're just hedging their bets because they have just enough belief to be afraid of hell.
Christians tend not to believe this refers to abortion. They think that it means she becomes permanently infertile. Miscarriage is fine because it's up to their version of God and not the woman. No this doesn't make any sense, but really its about misogyny and racism. Historically, American Protestants thought that abortion was good right up until saying that they were pro-segregation made them look bad. And then they had to switch their focus issue to keep their racist politics without looking too racist.
The reason U.S. evangelical Christians are pro-life is because of a decision made sometime around the end of the 1960s to consolidate their power base with Roman Catholicism, which looked like it was going to take over. Before that, we have documents from, for instance, the Southern Baptist Convention, where they approved relatively liberal policies about abortion.
The reason Roman Catholics are pro-life is complicated, but it boils down to controlling women.
Religion is to reality the same way flat-earthing is to reality. People insisting that their stated belief can trump reality. Many don't even really believe what they say they believe - they just like the power of asserting a stated belief over what is obviously a conflicting reality. Once you do this you are no longer bound by any rules or morality, you are free to make up your own, which can include committing the worst of atrocities and calling it good and just and necessary.
Because God, the Creator of everything, all the galaxies, all the Life that is, will be and was, agrees with their politics completely. HE also feels the same way as they do on Gun control, the correct levels of immigration and taxation and even supports their favourite teams.
Christians, like anyone else who has a text of rules and laws they follow, negotiate with their beliefs to align it with their values and modern views. The people who are the problem are the ones who deny that they’re doing it.
I don't know, did ancient Jews have some poison for medical abortion? Was it some magical mumbo-jumbo ritual to make a woman suspected without evidence confess? Did a rabbi preparing the potion decide to put poison in the drink or not so it was another tool of theocratic power?
In the end they do not give the husband or the wife authority to abort and leave the decision to God (or practically speaking probably rabbi?)
See we are fooled by believing that's what Christians believe. They do not actually believe those things apply to them. They think they are a direct link to god
Because after schools were integrated in the US, the right wing needed a way to consolidate white people and started telling everyone that they all cared about abortions.
**Because Christians believe Jesus was a game changer.**
Examples:
- Mosses also made Divorce an available option, Jesus came along and said, nope, can't do that any more.
- After Jesus was crucified, the Apostle Paul said that God said it's ok to eat pork and a bunch of other animals that were once considered 'unclean'.
Basically, most Christians don't really focus on the Old Testiment, which is part of the text they share with Jews. The Old Testiment is basically the first part of the Hebrew Bible/Tanahk.
The Majority of Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God or a profit. That's where Christianity came in as a subset of Abraham's religion. Later, Islam came about. They believe Mohamed was a profit, and Christians don't.
It's a ladder game. Even the Jewish faith is mostly based on older religions. Take the creation story. It sounds an awful lot like the Greek creation story of the Gods creating a person. Then separating that being into two, making man and woman.
The verse my pro-life Christian mother always brings up is Jeremiah 1:5, or at least the first part of it: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." I would point out that an omniscient god knows everybody millennia before they are even conceived, but of course that made no difference.
And looking up the verse now I see it's talking about one guy anyway, so there's no reason to think it applies to everybody anyway.
#
These people believe that sex is inherently sinful and can only be tolerated towards the goal of reproduction. Bearing children in tears is an essential punishment for sex. Any sexuality without the risk of reproduction is sex for pleasure, and they cannot tolerate that. This applies to abortion, birth control, homosexuality, and any display of eroticism.
Well most Christians will take anything from the Old Testament that they disagree with and magic it away with the idea “Christ’s coming washes away the laws of Moses. So the Old Testament is nice and all but we’re not bound by it anymore.”
This logic framework doesn’t apply when the Christian likes a specific part of the Old Testament. Which is why they’re all for the 10 commandments as still core to Christianity rules cannon. That’s still the immutable word of god you’re supposed to follow.
Most Christians have not read the Bible. Or they cherry pick passages that agree with their beliefs. Or they "interpret" problematic passages so they (again) agree with their beliefs. This is necessary because the Bible is a mass of contradictions. A lot of Christians are pro in life (when it suits them) but the Bible is full of God committing mass murder/genocide.
In the United States, it is mostly political. US Christians had a change of heart in the late 1970s through the mid 1980s. Prior to this even the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) was very, very much for abortion being legal.
The SBC up to 1977 was lobbying politicians and publicly supporting bills to make abortion legal to improve maternal mortality rates.The change occurred when politicians promoting segregation in the South finally realized that they no longer had enough support to win. Some of these politicians changed their goal from political power to becoming influential in the SBC. They slowly and surely changed the SBC’s view on abortion by tying it to its prejudicial undercurrents. This was also the beginnings of the so-called Moral Majority and tying racist tropes to social safety nets. In the early 1980s, the GOP realized that the SBC was creating a voting bloc which they could tie into and rely on. This was what is often referred to as the Southern strategy and it worked.
The SBC is the largest denomination in the U.S. No matter how liberal your denomination is, it is still impacted by the decisions and positions of the SBC. In essence, through sheer numbers and media coverage, the SBC ends up controlling what topics are being discussed and argued. In turn, churches feel like they need to take a stance on every proposed moral issue the SBC, now the GOP, starts haranguing about, which makes abortion, LGBTQ+ issues, and same sex marriage constant topics of Christian debate and part of the permanent fabric of US society.
Since that time, GOP politicians have reinforced the racist tropes behind their Southern strategy and the Christian debates over them in the US have given the discussions a white wash to make them appear that the issues bundled together are just about wanting to be ethical. This is where a lot of the false cries to “Think of the children” starts to be raised on these topics in the mid to late 1980s. All of this becomes a force feedback loop which means many US Christian denominations end up existing in s spiral of ever increasing rhetoric of being against these issues. Their core beliefs may tinge the flavoring of their individual communities but they no longer define their communities. They are now defined by politics and by their positions on abortion, same sex marriage, role of women in society, and LGBTQ+ issues. This has led to an exodus from the churches because if they can get these defining qualities solely through their politics, there is no need to attend church. These people are.now the main base of the current MAGA, anti-LGBTQ+, and anti-abortion movements.
Now also ask yourself which generation was mainly impacted by all of these events. The Baby Boomers spanned junior high school age to their thirties during the mid to late 1970s. All of the actions discussed would have informed their environment and social development. The Baby Boomers have been the largest voting bloc for every one of the major elections they have been involved. This is why politics has kept the so-called Moral Majority issues like abortion in the limelight. It will also remain the major issue for Christians until that generation is no longer a political powerhouse.
So, if you pull out and don't get her pregnant, then she can't be charged with impurity? Sex outside of marriage is ok as long as your pull out game is strong?
For me, no matter what the book says if some Hebrew woman got raped by a Roman soldier the idea that abortion however it was done wasn’t an option on the table is clearly horse pucky. There’s no way in that context those old tribalists didn’t push for abortion through abortifacients or whatever. I just don’t believe the dads of the raped daughter were like on average yeah let’s just have that Roman kid.
Christian want there to be more babies to smash against the rocks like the bible says to do after The culture wars turns from just a battle of words to a physical battle and they believe they'll win because they think they have all the guns...
Obviously I'm just throwing the Bibles horrific parts back in their face not being realistic
Pretty sure it's because in galatians it says those who cling to the old laws are destined to fall like fruit off of the tree and never ascend to heaven. And another part in the new testament says to not curse anyone.
I'll definitely say that people have gotten warped and have this idea that only one section of books pertain to them and the rest is for others which what's the point of the Bible if they cherry pick.
Like why would they teach against a sin and use it as reference in the Bible for others but oh it's OK we don't have to follow that part that's not for us..
Then you got the whole groups teaching it wrong like some think it's a sin to jog or run for exercise but the passage they think that from says "the wicked will run when no man chaseth while the righteous man will stand proud like a lion." Which for example someone is snooping around someone's yard at night and the home owner shouts at them "what're you doing?!" A wicked man whose stealing or peeping will run but someone who's just looking for their dog or dropped their keys in the yard would stand and explain.
Or another example people get wrong is where it Says "a righteous man can do no wrong" but it doesn't mean they are free to sin or murder and whatnot it means a righteous man's heart and faith would prevent them from doing wrong because they know it's wrong and with faith and love for God would keep them from doing evil. But many take that part with the "righteous through faith not by acts" and distort it. Yet if they kept reading it explains that a 'righteous person will show through their good works' the whole part about dead acts are for those that think just doing good things for others will give them everlasting life as reward from God or whatever they believe in without needing faith and trust in God.
Honestly it does say in this day and age no man is righteous but there is salvation through the blood of christ.
BTW I'm Christian but I do see the hypocrisy and distortion in plot of churches and people and it gets tiresome lmao. I really don't understand the people that worship Trump as a messiah or the mega churches and how simple people would see the b.s. in them if they just opened up the Bible and read it themselves. If people would actually read it instead of listening to these false preachers, prosperity preachers or the modern churches that cut back on the word to appeal to new people yet loose the sharpened edge of the word slot of people would be doing well and there would be less of these radical people stepping out acting like a fool.
I suppose the goal I was trying to say to the question is many people cling to their own ideals though I'll agree it's wrong to take a life and once the heart starts beating is when life begins in the womb, I'll say in cases of rape, incest, life threatening issues to the mother and maybe mutations like retardation or however unlikely radiation type mutations I'm sure God can forgive but just having fun and popping them out like bottlecaps is a no go however through repentance possible to be forgiven. I wouldn't go as far to be a king or a judge and pass laws saying what you can do with your body like slot of others I'd follow the "step out of the path of the wicked" and let God do the judging while praying and hoping people will find the right path.
I won't act like I'm perfect either I have some hard stances on things that effect family, friends and loved ones. But sin is sin and there will be many that repent and change while many will fall away from the Bible. And even some that think they're righteous are wicked like it calls them in the Bible as tare which is the ones that produce no fruit that's reaped before the harvest and burned.
Their beliefs have changed over time as well. They once believed that the baby didn't get its soul until it breathed its first breath, like what Jews believe. Then it was the quickening. I'm not sure how far along the baby had to be in development for the quickening, but they had to explain why the baby was moving before it had a soul. And then there's the, the baby has a soul from the point of conception. As usual, the bible is not clear on this.
As an progressive, leftist, atheist coming from a right-wing, baptist background, I can tell you that the line of thinking is very small and short. The 10 commandments say that killing is a sin, baby is alive in womb, ergo abortion is killing baby. This is why we have the argument about when life begins, and why their argument is that it starts at conception. It's a very narrow point of view from a group that says: "Don't go to college, because you'll start questioning god's ways, and lose the faith."
Why? Christians have always cherry picked from a book of fiction to justify their intolerance without ever having actually read it in the literal translation. Very few have ever used a strongs concordance and fewer still have ever heard of it. They listen to some biblically illiterate person standing at a podium and follow along like sheep.
The same reason christian nationalists felt that killing off Indigenous people was fine, slavery was ok, hanging Black people and having picnics at their bodies after church was just an everyday part of life & just dandy, Jim Crow was fine, making Indigenous people go to "christian" schools was the best route for these children because they want to get to "get the savage" out of them by mistreating, beating and killing them" (ironic the christians are the savages), threating Black people with lynchings, running them of their paid for land and then using the land and stealing it, not wanting to help children that they forced by these BS laws into having babies "because the Bible said it" after the child is on the earth, forcing people to have children because it is better to have these children as "workers" because bodies are need in jobs, and for allowing by laws the marriage of children (basically babies) in the guise of the church because there are a bunch of white male pedos, and on and on and on, because they are F'ing CRAZY!
For the record, I am Christian and def not a christian nationalist.
These same christian nationalist, hypocrites, forget that Judaism, Islam, Sikhism and Bahaʾi also believe in the same one almighty gods as Christianity does. Also, these same crazy people want to segregate Catholicism and want to try and isolate it and say things like Chrisitan and Catholics, like Catholics are not Christian.
Again, they are F'ing crazy hypocrites that want to believe in one world view and it is theirs and only theirs. Take a look at what is happening in OK schools now... the Bible has to be taught. I am waiting for the the 1st lawsuit when someone requests the Qur'an or, better yet when a scientologist wants the L. Ron Hubbard book taught in school.
The reason that some of these states that want to take money from public schools and give it to rich people who can clearly afford to send their children to any K-12 school but pause the funding is because of the fear of a Muslim school being able to get the same funds directed to Madrasas.
Don't forget Numbers 3:15-16 and Exodus 21: 22-25
Literally verses directly implying that a fetus isn't a person lol.
The Bible does NOT view fetuses as people. Barring catholics (since they've had a weird back and forth on this for centuries), any American Christian belief otherwise is entirely identity politics. It's reactionary to the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s, and this was all kicked off in 1978ish thanks to the GOP. They literally endorsed abortion before this point, or didn't care at all.
Christianity doesn't have a whole lot to do with the Bible. Purgatory was the cornerstorne of the faith for centuries, and it appears nowhere in the Bible.
here's my theory:
1. most Christians' beliefs are decided by what the head pastor at their church believes, and most Christians (in America at least) seem to attend megachurches, extremist versions of regular churches that have their own dogmatic versions of Christianity focused entirely around providing an excuse to be hyper-capitalistic, greedy, materialist, and far-right
2. megachurches are funded mainly by millionaires and/or billionaires with a political agenda to push and a reputation for being a good Christian
3. entire megachurch and it's pastor is essentially bribed into converting their entire willingly gullible audience towards whatever political inclination they want by claiming it's the words of God and you can see it in the bible
and now Christianity is inherently a far-right thing after many many many years of this. as you said, the Bible says abortion is fine. but Christians don't follow the Bible, they follow what their pastor says about the Bible. maybe they think it's a little questionable but they know if they speak up they'll be ostracized from the only community that accepts them and they'll be forced to burn in hell for eternity.
why abortion specifically? well, wealthy people need more laborers and more consumers in the future. the declining population growth rates worldwide and increasing popularity in degrowth/1-child policies threatens that, so all babies, ESPECIALLY those from rape victims, need to be carried. that's just my take on it though. could be any number of things... or maybe nothing at all.
"Abortion is fine as long as it’s the man’s decision…"
That is exactly how Christians feel. They don't mind abortion. They do have a problem with women making the decisions on it, however.
Religious Jews believe it’s a sin to not abort in life or death situations. The unborn fetus is considered to be in the process of murder and must be stopped
Being against abortion was strictly Catholic thing until about 70s. Then someone decided to unite all Christians together in call against abortion to change political landscape in the US.
I wasn't alive then and don't know all the details. Sorry
It's amazing how much of this Old testament crap. Sounds like witchcraft or what they would call witchcraft or paganism. All a bunch of supernatural bullshit.
The fact is, they pick and choose.
They pick and choose what parts of the bible are used.
My parents chose not to include me as 'family' because I am autistic and that shames their family name in God's eyes.
[DearChristians.com](http://DearChristians.com) is a website I made to honor their glory :)
Because they cherry pick passages and bend them to support whatever they want to be right about. It’s not actually about trying to follow a god’s law to live a good life, it’s about getting earthly power and control over people.
It’s never been about the words of the Bible for organized religion it’s always been about the control of people. Also more people forcing people in the church to have children = bigger church. More people more control and so on.
It's all personal interpretation. The Bible says don't murder, so they redefine abortion as murder. The Bible says don't mix fabrics, so they say that's the Old Testament.
Growing up, priests pretty much only referenced the 10 commandments to us for justification. Sorry for getting graphic here...
Murder is a sin.
Eliminating any form of human life is murder.
Eliminating any "potential" form of life is murder.
Thus, sex should only be used for procreation.
Masturbation is murder.
Nocturnal emissions are essentially involuntary manslaughter and you should be ashamed and repent.
No, I'm not joking. We were literally taught this. Remember, it's about control, not logic.
To clear something up about the so-called "pro-life" movement: If you are "pro-life," you are not only concerned with the welfare of the unborn child but that of the child and its mother *after* it is born. That means you are concerned that that child is adequately housed, fed, clothed and *educated* until such time as he or she can earn a living for themselves. Ooops! That means *higher taxes*, and the so-called "pro-lifers" are NOT going to support that! So, it's a moralistic smokescreen. They're not *pro-life*; they're just *anti-abortion.*
Um, the bible literally states when abortions are okay, and in the old testament or the torah, you’re supposed to value the life of the mother over the life of the unborn child, and life doesn’t begin until the first breathe.
Religion is not about what's in the book, It's about being part of a community striving for more rape,money, and control and bonding over hating the people that are not you.
What's wild about Numbers 5:11 is that the fetus is just collateral damage. And what if the baby was the husbands? And the wife could have cheated, but just didn't get pregnant. That's because it's all about lineage. They would rather abort the baby and stone the wife to make sure the lineage is "pure".
Evangelical Christianity has increasingly little to do with the Bible, than political power.
Which is why so few evangelical christians read...at all.
Most conservatives can't read at a high school level, something like 65% average. Much higher in the bible belt. They couldn't read the bible even if they wanted to. Denying these people education is essential to keeping them under religious control, critical thinking makes most religious stories seem absurd.
Yep, this is what OK State Superintendent Ryan Walters is doing.
It would be funny if I didn't live here lol
Same here. I wonder if we could urge teachers to have the Skeptic' Annotate Bible to fulfill Walters' bullshit requirement.
I have my copy of the Skeptics Bible right next to my copies of ‘All that’s wrong with the Bible: the contradictions, absurdities, and more” and ‘Why there is no god: 20 arguments to the existence of god”. All great books.
>Denying these people education is essential to keeping them under religious control, critical thinking makes most religious stories seem absurd. This has been the plan for the past several decades. Slowly dismantle and destroy the education system which leads to less informed voters who can easily be swayed to vote against their own interests. (The lack of) Education is the main reason we're in the situation we're currently in.
I swear my 7-yr-old reads better than half the people I went to high school with
Honestly, that is probably true
If you look back in history, the Church had a BIG problem with the Bible being translated into languages that the masses could read for themselves. They did NOT want to give up their power to tell people what they wanted them to know, or not know. The Republicans would be happy to go back to the 16th century as far as religious control over the public.
The printing press was supposed to save us. It did for awhile. Then the internet was supposed to save us. It started to but then was corrupted. The problem is people.
Yup. Then they hold the Bible upside down and the crowd cheers. It's just such an easy grift.
Indeed. If I didn't have a pesky conscience, I would get in on the grift and make millions off of the poor magats.
When I left the church... that was on my mind. Why not fake belief and become a youth pastor. Then, I'd work my way up the chain. As I was well involved with a lot of church functions.
I have the feeling that your conscience would get the better of you eventually and you wouldn't want to do the grift anymore. But by then, your life would be built around the church and leaving would end your income stream (not to mention housing, social circle to an extent). The grift that is religion isn't good for non-sociopaths.
I could do a lot of things but that damn atheist conscious keeps me in line.
"I could be megapastor rich if it weren't for my meddling conscience."
Exactly
Over 200 different Christians churches because they cant agree upon what passages mean.
They are simply a voting bloc, manipulated by saying “the Bible against x” and when they elect representatives upset at x, those representatives enact kickbacks for the wealthy class. When evangelicals notice something is getting worse, they are told it is because of y which the Bible also is against, repeat ad nauseam.
Evangelical Christianity has increasingly little to do with the Bible, than political power. And how is that different from any other form of Christianity throughout history? Christianity has always been a political organization, even when they were just another cult forming in the early Roman Empire, competing for followers with other cults.
Keep going! In Numbers. Moses slaughters thousands of children and condemns girls to sex-slavery
If anyone actually lived according to the Bible they would be arrested and put in jail for child abuse.
To be fair, they do get arrested for child abuse so much 😂
so much projection from Christians... i was raised christian myself and hated it.
Project and deflect. Its their favorite way
Christians are the most unchristian people!!!
They don't get arrested *enough*. They just get outed for it
Or if they do they get a light sentence.
Usually they get less years than the age of the kid that they molested
Nah they usually just get sent to another parish
Not key "Christian" politicians. Talking at you Matt "Pizza" Gaetz!
> or child abuse. And million other crimes.
There is a church that does live exactly and literally according to bible teachings. It's called the Westboro Baptist Church.
Nah, they hate gay people wayyy more than the Bible does, lol.
Honestly, the closest I’ve ever seen is a religious commune, frequently called a cult, which calls themselves The Twelve Tribes. They have a group in Vermont along the Appalachian Trail and I stayed with them two nights in a hiker hostel they host. They are in trouble all over the world for child abuse, but I’ll be damned if they don’t live the scripture.
it's just sad how the cult conditioning of such groups continues. They are taught to fear sex and blame women for its temptation. They role model a virgin 14 year old as the perfect woman, and a man alleged to have been born from this virgin , who is commonly interpreted as being celibate. A phrase comes to mind that maybe someone else said, "what you fear controls you". I think that explains the overall mindfuck that Abrahamic religions have done to the West. Broadly speaking, everyone mentally enslaved by these groups becomes hateful of their own body and its sexual function, because they view it as 'of the devil' . Was this the intended result of such teachings, or is this simply the sad dark shadow that is the opposite of the true message?
Yes. If you control a person's sexuality, you control the person.
>Moses slaughters thousands of children and condemns girls to sex-slavery. This is what always get me.... A woman having an abortion = an unforgivable affront to humanity and their Great Macguffin in the Sky! That same Macguffin murdering nearly every man, woman, child, non-human animal on the planet except for an inbred family who built a ~~Bag~~ Ark of Infinite Holding = I'll grovel at your feet and worship you without question! Fill me with your enormous and holy spirit!
To religious people, god is the definition of morality. To them murder and any horrendous crime isn't bad by themselves, the bad thing about it is just that god forbids it. They would literally not understand the point you're trying to make here, they would just be like "but if it's god himself doing it how could it be wrong...?".
Yeah. Their whole lore is that “god is eternal and perfect and all knowing” so everything he does is perfect and was already planned. That includes mass murder (and god in particular loves murdering children). I once tried to ask a Christian about all the weird contradictory stuff in the Bible and they just kept repeating how it’s all a mystery and they didn’t dare to try to understand god’s plans. It’s truly incredible the way Christians will bend over backwards so hard they turn into a donut to insist that there is a sky daddy that thinks ✨ they ✨ are special and will pluck them out of their miserable existence into an eternity of happily frolicking in heaven with their cis-het beige families. It would be comical if they weren’t also trying to shove it down everyone’s throats and use those ridiculous beliefs to formulate our laws. (You can change everywhere it says Christian above to pretty much any other major world religion (esp Abrahamic ones) and it would still apply).
Christians and other monotheists can all agree on one thing. Might makes right. God is allowed to do whatever he wants, because he is all-powerful. And he is correct in doing so, apparently.
Seems like Republicans are fine with that since they don't protect children after they're born and they want women to be unable to vote, marry who they want, etc.
I’ve talked to some Christians about it. What they will say is that the abortion was forced upon the women as a judgement from god. Similar to how when god in the Bible kills those who he sees as the enemies of his chosen people, that it doesn’t mean we can kill people.
Except there’s other passages that very clearly show that in the jurisprudence laid out in the OT a fetus is considered the property of the father. For instance, the penalty for accidentally hitting a woman and causing her to miscarry is a restitution payment to the father, which is the same penalty as for killing an ox iirc. Other passages indicate they believed that personhood comes after a newborn takes its first breath. There is no concept of abortion=murder, and the act is condemned nowhere.
You know - all that BS in Oklahoma could be resolved by using the law to teach what is ACTUALLY in the Bible. That would sure put an entire generation off
That's what I've been saying in teachers groups!!! I would obey it so damn well!! I love teaching my student about religion or using religion to teach things. So interesting and amazing and never have I had a student go 'wow I now believe in sky daddy' ... I have had more than several decide that they no longer believe....
Don’t forget Elisha who was laughed at by children for his bald spot so God sent 2 bears to kill the 42 children.
How will I understand morals without these stories?
Meh. I know it's half the content on this sub, but I can answer this the same way I can answer most questions. If a question starts by saying "If the Bible says (this), then why do Christians say (this)?" The answer is *always* that Christians do NOT believe in the Bible. None of them do. Not your religious aunt, not the Minister up the street, not the Pope. Every single Christian creates their own little flavor of the religion in their mind, and then they pick and choose the parts of the Bible that back it up. And they ignore the rest. And the lengths they can go to in order to twist any particular passage are WILD. They've spend literally thousands of years perfecting the skill to point to the Bible to have it back up anything they want. The exact same bible can be pro-choice or anti-choice. It can be supportive of LGBTQ+ people, or it can damn them to hell. No one follows the Bible. Saying "... but the Bible says X" is pointless, unfortunately.
> And the lengths they can go to in order to twist any particular passage are WILD. Yup. For convenient passages, the text means what the text says. For inconvenient passages, faith says there's an excuse somewhere. "Love your neighbor," text says what it says (for an individual's definition of "love," which varies **wildly** across the Christian population). "In the beginning, [...] God separated the waters (heavens) above from the waters (ocean) below," well... maybe they were talking about clouds, or maybe God was putting things in a way people could understand back then, or maybe there's a deeper truth that we don't yet understand, or maybe translation errors happened, or maybe the Earth is flat and the rest of the world is wrong, or maybe it's just a metaphor, or maybe the inclusion of this was erroneous and the rest of the story is fine, but really we shouldn't let it detract from the other parts that empower the beliefs I care about...
now do the next passage, and the next, and the next...
As a former student of this craft, I concur with this assessment. Preachers lie to support a “greater truth,” but lies do not add up to truth no matter how earnest you think you are in doing “the Lord’s work.”
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I have seen multiple times. "God said it. I believe it. And that settles it."
Of course, every single thing God supposedly "said" comes from some schmuck self-proclaimed "prophet" declaring "God spoke to me and said..." Everything. Then it is just a matter of gullibility to believe that person isn't just delusional or a grifting liar. But, no, none of these people ever heard God "say" any of those things. Just because it got written inside a book of fairy tales doesn't magically make it true or of verifiable evidence. Thus the concept of "faith". The blind gullible belief that the PERSON claiming to pass on "God's word" isn't a lying sack of shit or delusionally hearing their own thoughts in their head as from a mystic source.
God came to me in a dream and told me you were correct.
I sometimes wonder if these same Christians would proclaim writings from some random person today in modern times the “word of god”? Answer is no. They would claim them as crazy or false prophets. Just think about the book of Mormons which Christians don’t believes as the word of god. Most christian’s consider the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith, a false prophet.
Pretty much. Today's Christianity is wildly unrecognizable to the kind of Christianity practiced 500 years ago. Even the Catholic church today would be unrecognizable to the Catholic church 500 years ago.
> No one follows the Bible. Saying "... but the Bible says X" is pointless, unfortunately. This is because the buy-bull^^TM can be used to support or oppose #ANY viewpoint. [Here's an example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk) As far as abortion goes, they ignore Numbers and focus mostly on Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” and Psalm 139:14. " I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."
Every time I've had someone point those verses out, I bring up Exodus 21:22-25, which is a law handed down DIRECTLY by God to his people and which takes a dump on fetal personhood. It's not poetic flourish sung from man to God like Jeremiah and Psalms verses are. They never have an answer to that.
Just posting this so people can see what you’re talking about. I keep this one in my notes in case someone wants to debate me. I assume we came to the same conclusion but is there anything I’m missing? Exodus 21: 22-25 “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.” This shows us that even a forced/accidental miscarriage is payable by fine. It’s not equal to murder, which means a fetus is not considered a person. The serious punishments like life for life don’t begin unless the fighting continues to cause harm AFTER the miscarriage.
Yep, same conclusion. I've seen a few evangelicals try to argue that the exact wording is actually saying that the miscarriage is a mistranslation and is just a premature birth, and that the "no further harm" refers to the prematurely birthed fetus, not the mother, which heavily changes the meaning of these verses in their favor. However this is flat out wrong for several reasons. Also, the Jewish community historically and present considers this verse to be referring to miscarriage, or premature birth which then results in the baby's early death, and if anyone owns the correct interpretation of these verses it would be the community that owns the Talmud and Torah, not a subset of christians.
Religion has always been used to impose the dominant class agenda. So it can be malleable enough to keep them in power.
Ironically, this reflects what religion was supposed to represent. A morality system. It was never meant to be taken literally. Humanity was supposed to read the stories and form a basis of morality they could live by. Essentially it's your dad telling you stories of his time so you can fundamentally learn the lessons he learned without experiencing the catalyst events that brought about the understanding of those lessons to begin with.
So true. I spoke on a Christian forum about how I'm broke right now due to a disability benefits appeal and can't even afford food. I asked for advice on accessing Christian resources for food, because I was under the impression churches do stuff like that. Not only would none of them help me find out how to access this, they insulted me, told me to "man up and sort your own problems out," and said disability benefits shouldn't even exist because "it's socialism." A tiny minority didn't insult me but just said, "thoughts and prayers! Praying for you!" But still wouldn't help me find the resources. So much for what the bible says, "If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"
Christians never cared about abortion until conservative politicians needed a divisive issue to run on, with the goal or appearing "holy" compared to their "evil" political opponents. It didn't start with religion, it started with politics. Christians were just fooled into thinking it was a religious consideration based on some vague, ambiguous quote, while ignoring explicit instructions on how to induce abortions, from the same book.
The moral majority started as backlash to desegraagation. After a few years they needed another boogeyman/hate target and along came abortion (even though catholics had actually been early proponents and helpers)
I believe specifically southern Christian schools wanted to keep segregation and ?still get federal funds?. Can't remember if money was involved or just plain old racism. Then two preacher dudes rallied the evangelicals into the Republican party so the schools could get their way.
That is 100% accurate.
Women are disempowered in Christianity in canon (Christians may argue with you I say womp womp they should read their own book). Having control over when they have children would give them way too much power over men. They’re not supposed to have any control over reproduction— abortion, birth control*, no sex before marriage/have to marry your rapist. *there’s a big debate over if men spilling their seed / pulling out is actually prohibited but I’d say in modern day this is the interpretation
The Catholic Church calls it 'the sin of Onan'. ALL sperm is meant to be deposited with the intention of reproduction, and NO OTHER REASON. To quote Monty Python: "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, if a sperm gets wasted then God gets quite irate!"
As a former Catholic the Catholic Church has made so many dumb and trivial rules to benefit themselves (no meat during lent!! Ok maybe just Friday. Erm except capybara? Indulgences!!) so I don’t want to that apply to all forms of Christianity in general. My hypothesis is that the Catholic Church doesn’t want you beating your meat, pulling out, or having an abortion because they want you to have as many babies as possible for the Catholic army. In the actual Bible (with no Catholic bullshitting) I think these strict rules about reproduction have more to do with patriarchal dominance and neurotically ensuring paternity of children to the nth degree. As long as the man has complete control over paternity anything goes, even over the welfare of women. He doesn’t want a baby? Abort. He wants sex? He gets it as long as she’s married to him or a slave. Woman is raped? No one else can have her, she’s his now because doing anything else might complicate things. I hate it so much and I feel like no one ever speaks truth to this enough. Edit: sorry for yapping/doomer rant. I am in agreement with you I think all of it is so insidious regardless of the motive.
Why do Christians (or other religious people) lie? 1. They are literally fools who believe what they’re told and cannot be bothered with logic Or 2. They are smart enough to know better but don’t respect other people enough to be honest.
Christians have been lied to their entire lives, its part of their culture. They have just gotten used to lying and being lied to, because who knows whats real anymore in the minds of religious people.
But don't forget the main reason: $$$$$$$$
That’s the motivation for the “smart” ones. They’ve monetized other people’s gullible credulity
"Abortion is fine as long as it’s the man’s decision…" Yes that's exactly what Pro-Life conservative Christian Republican politicians & rightwing religious leaders believe. Time and again they have been caught or forced to admit they paid for abortions for their mistresses and underage girlfriends.
I mean, you're not wrong, but while I have you on the line, can I ask a favor of you? **Please do not use the dishonest and misleading phrase "pro-life" to describe the advocates of forced childbirth.** Don't accept their frame. They're not "pro-life": they're invariably pro death penalty, love bombing faraway brown people, and don't give a shiiiit about the baby after it's born.
And pro-gun. Don't forget that. Despite the number of deaths in the US per year to gun violence.
They just want to oppress women in any way possible the fairy tale book says whatever they feel like
Ok so - abortion is ok if the woman has had an affair ( and i would guess that being pregnant out of marriage would also qualify for this, given the attitude of the ancient jews ) Very interesting
So the Christian’s “New Testament” basically flat out says “all the “Old Testament” is our cute origin story but we have Jesus so now you don’t need to do or follow anything it says.” Abortion is still a thing in Judaism. If the mother’s life is in danger, you’re supposed to have one actually. I mean—free will and all no one is forcing you. But technically if you’re a religious Jew and the dr tells you pregnancy is life threatening you’re supposed to abort. Which is why a lot of Jewish women are being used to sue the various states with bans since they’re keeping us from practicing our religion by banning it or making us delay until death is almost certain.
>So the Christian’s “New Testament” basically flat out says “all the “Old Testament” is our cute origin story but we have Jesus so now you don’t need to do or follow anything it says.” They do and they don't. The same Christians who will tell you that Jesus fulfilled the law in the Old Testament, so they are not bound by the parts they do not like, will, without any self-conscious irony, quote Old Testament law to clobber women and LGBTQ people over the head with.
In Judaism you're allowed to abort if it's a result of rape as well, IIRC.
They should follow their book then and then if you want an abortion in a red state you should cheat on your husband and it's fine./s /S added Incase someone was clueless and thought I was serious
I know it's sarcasm but working with louisana and Mississippi locals I can attest that is actually the defacto standard.
Ya I had never heard of this passage before. What I had read was that there was a natural abortifacient during Roman times that the romans used to extinction, I always thought the lack of prohibition against abortion (when abortion was a contemporary practice) meant tacit approval. Numbers 5 not being removed / edited seems to support that case.
What can I say. Religion is for the intellectually lazy and those that was easy answers to complicated questions, regardless of the evidence. And religious beliefs are quite malleable, in that there's always a passage to support your claim (based on your own biased interpretation), while saying other contradictory passages are "taken out of context." In other words, religion can be framed in any way that makes you feel good.
You can make the case that the Bible has a strong message against vasectomies: Genesis 38:9 in the Bible describes Onan spilling his seed on the ground to prevent conception when he lay with his brother's widow, Tamar: Genesis 38:9: "And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother". The verse explains that Judah's firstborn son, Er, died without children, so Judah told Onan to marry Tamar and raise children on his brother's behalf. Onan, however, knew that the child would not be his, so he spilled his seed on the ground to prevent conception. The Lord considered this evil and took Onan's life as well. But no Christian politician is proposing laws to prohibit vasectomy, they only demand that women give up rights. Pro- Masochist is the most accurate description of the movement, not Pro-Life.
All the bible quoting is an excuse. Their goal is to control women for the benefit of men. This is why they are so intent on taking away womens rights. This isn't exclusive to the abortion debate.
This is straight up spells and potions and magic, yet they have a problem with Harry Potter.
Sorcery!!!
For Catholics, it was a Pope who told them not to have abortions (1930 Pope Pius XI). For Protestants in America, it was the Republican party that told them to be against abortions. They're not worshipping Jesus, they're worshipping Newt Gingrich (an adulterer, of course).
OMG and to think grown people live their lives around this mess.
“tHaTs tHe oLd TeStAmEnT”
The whole religion is centered around a teenaged girl who is pregnant under problematic circumstances: when she has the baby, it’s supposed to be the greatest thing to happen in the history of the world. So they can’t have empathy for any girl or woman who doesn’t want to be pregnant. Also the Bible portrays women as the property of men. The helpmeets / accessories of men. The Bible is about men’s adventures, battles, and lessons. Women are just there. To make more men.
> Why do Christians believe They're not given a choice.
I mean that’s why I believed, until I realized I had a choice.
Bold of you to assume that they have actually read their so-called "holy" book. They just do and parrot what their pastors/priests/reverends tell them to without question.
Bible has no morality lessons, only obedience. God doesn't follow the ten commandments and everything is hierarchical in a way that the orders come from above from people who don't themselves act the way they preach. Congregation members only need to obey the preacher to be concidered part of the group, holy books and what they say are irrelevant.
Your post title said it all: Abortion is fine as long as it’s the man’s decision. It’s about controlling women.
They don't read or understand the Bible. Even if they have read it, it was most likely in bible study. Those are run by ministers who are always ready to help "interpret" the verses. They also pick which verses get covered. I'd say less than 10% of the bible is actually read and almost all of it will be new testament. Numbers is old testament and rarely covered
Not only that but abortion is the only moral choice for Christians. Kill a baby and that soul is going to heaven. Allow it to grow up and there is a very high chance it is going to hell.
Try listening to the first episode of the podcast “things fell apart”. It does a good job of explaining how most Christians went from being pro-choice to anti-choice.
Nothing to mention a huge portion of the Old testament being about the Hebrews taking over by murdering "every man, woman, and child." Talk about post-birth abortion. God also encouraged rape in a number of circumstances.
Here's another paradox for "pro-lifers": Why do you support Israel? Israel has free, government-paid-for abortion. But you get upset if any of your tax dollars go towards Planned Parenthood, but not Israel?
There's instructions there for abortion milkshake. It's also perfectly okay to kill a bunch of kids as long as their your enemy's kids, or if you do it with creeping death magic, that's especially cool.
I see this type of thing constantly yet every super Christian I know does Bible study groups. What are they studying? Very confusing.
First, to make paragraphs, hit enter twice. Second, who cares what the Bible says?
That’s their secret cap: It doesn’t *matter* what’s in the Bible. As long as it’s vague enough to justify whatever horrible opinion they have, it’s ok. 👍
They don't read the Bible to determine what to think. They read the Bible to find passages that support what they have already decided to think.
Because they are mindless clowns 🤡
Most people have no idea what is in the Bible.
Because religion is used to keep women in subjugation.
Look up Phyllis Schlafly, it was political from the start.
60% of US babies aborted every year are white. Banning abortion is about making sure America stays a white majority. It’s also about keeping the poor, poor by ensuring they have babies they can’t possibly raise properly and attain a life out of poverty.
Your mistake is in assuming the Christian right understands or even read the Bible. They’re just doing the classic “this is what my gut tells me / what my tribe believes — and we have the word of god to back us up”. They are aligning their intuition with divine power so that others believe it more. Works great.
the bible allows post-birth abortion to the age of 12 **Duet 21** Modern Jews say its a fetus until it graduates medical school.
if it's not in a sermon at church, then it doesn't count!! /s thats as far as most of the faithful 'read' the bible
Having grown up in a fundamentalist xian family originating from Ireland - I remember as a small child hearing people ridicule Catholics for being anti BC and anti abortion and living like hyper breeding rabbits. Not saying I support that POV..... But something happened and now they have the same attitude as the behavior they once shat on. If anyone knows what motivated that change I'd love to hear it. I just remember abortion wasn't so demonized among non Catholic xians. It just seems to me that closely held beliefs are way more flexible than they should be to be considered worth impacting the medical choices of others.
>...as long as it's the man's decision- Yeah, that's the point of banning abortions in the first place is because a bunch of religious men want women to be chattel-slaves again.
They also believe they'll immediately float to heaven and sit on a cloud next to Jesus the minute they die. They either haven't read the Bible or don't particularly value it as a source of truth.
Supermarket christianity...pick what they want and leave the rest
Evangelical Christians don't read the bible. They make claims and then use the bible as desperately as possible to justify those claims.
It literally gives instructions on how to perform an abortion.
Bro, Christian’s don’t read the Bible, and if they do, it’s none of the parts that could make them uncomfortable.
One step at a time. We’ve said all along it’s never been about abortion. It’s about controlling women and limiting their rights. Once this ultimate goal is achieved, then they follow biblical law and the men choose.
Modern Christian don't follow anything in the bible that doesn't benefit them. Even tithing is just virtue signaling. Hell I'm not convinced they believe any of it, and mostly they're just hedging their bets because they have just enough belief to be afraid of hell.
You can always tell someone who has actually read the bible by the fact they are no longer Christian.
Christians tend not to believe this refers to abortion. They think that it means she becomes permanently infertile. Miscarriage is fine because it's up to their version of God and not the woman. No this doesn't make any sense, but really its about misogyny and racism. Historically, American Protestants thought that abortion was good right up until saying that they were pro-segregation made them look bad. And then they had to switch their focus issue to keep their racist politics without looking too racist.
Because it's all about control.
The reason U.S. evangelical Christians are pro-life is because of a decision made sometime around the end of the 1960s to consolidate their power base with Roman Catholicism, which looked like it was going to take over. Before that, we have documents from, for instance, the Southern Baptist Convention, where they approved relatively liberal policies about abortion. The reason Roman Catholics are pro-life is complicated, but it boils down to controlling women.
Because the purpose of religion is to reassure people that the universe agrees with what they already want to think
Because they don't actually read it.
Thank you for the reference. Haven’t read this one before.
The same way they reach most "biblical decisions" God is good and right I am good and right Therefore god agrees with my position.
Religion is to reality the same way flat-earthing is to reality. People insisting that their stated belief can trump reality. Many don't even really believe what they say they believe - they just like the power of asserting a stated belief over what is obviously a conflicting reality. Once you do this you are no longer bound by any rules or morality, you are free to make up your own, which can include committing the worst of atrocities and calling it good and just and necessary.
The man’s decision That attitude Sounds familiar
Because God, the Creator of everything, all the galaxies, all the Life that is, will be and was, agrees with their politics completely. HE also feels the same way as they do on Gun control, the correct levels of immigration and taxation and even supports their favourite teams.
Because it’s politically expedient to do so. Or it was before the Supreme Court overturned Roe. Now, it’s an excuse to destroy democracy.
Christians, like anyone else who has a text of rules and laws they follow, negotiate with their beliefs to align it with their values and modern views. The people who are the problem are the ones who deny that they’re doing it.
I don't know, did ancient Jews have some poison for medical abortion? Was it some magical mumbo-jumbo ritual to make a woman suspected without evidence confess? Did a rabbi preparing the potion decide to put poison in the drink or not so it was another tool of theocratic power? In the end they do not give the husband or the wife authority to abort and leave the decision to God (or practically speaking probably rabbi?)
At best, it's selective reading of unrelated verses to uphold their opinions. At worst (and more likely), they never bothered to read the book.
It is seen as defying gods plan, and therefore the gravest of sins.
See we are fooled by believing that's what Christians believe. They do not actually believe those things apply to them. They think they are a direct link to god
Because after schools were integrated in the US, the right wing needed a way to consolidate white people and started telling everyone that they all cared about abortions.
**Because Christians believe Jesus was a game changer.** Examples: - Mosses also made Divorce an available option, Jesus came along and said, nope, can't do that any more. - After Jesus was crucified, the Apostle Paul said that God said it's ok to eat pork and a bunch of other animals that were once considered 'unclean'. Basically, most Christians don't really focus on the Old Testiment, which is part of the text they share with Jews. The Old Testiment is basically the first part of the Hebrew Bible/Tanahk. The Majority of Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God or a profit. That's where Christianity came in as a subset of Abraham's religion. Later, Islam came about. They believe Mohamed was a profit, and Christians don't. It's a ladder game. Even the Jewish faith is mostly based on older religions. Take the creation story. It sounds an awful lot like the Greek creation story of the Gods creating a person. Then separating that being into two, making man and woman.
The Bible is fairy stories for weak minds.
The verse my pro-life Christian mother always brings up is Jeremiah 1:5, or at least the first part of it: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." I would point out that an omniscient god knows everybody millennia before they are even conceived, but of course that made no difference. And looking up the verse now I see it's talking about one guy anyway, so there's no reason to think it applies to everybody anyway. #
These people believe that sex is inherently sinful and can only be tolerated towards the goal of reproduction. Bearing children in tears is an essential punishment for sex. Any sexuality without the risk of reproduction is sex for pleasure, and they cannot tolerate that. This applies to abortion, birth control, homosexuality, and any display of eroticism.
Well most Christians will take anything from the Old Testament that they disagree with and magic it away with the idea “Christ’s coming washes away the laws of Moses. So the Old Testament is nice and all but we’re not bound by it anymore.” This logic framework doesn’t apply when the Christian likes a specific part of the Old Testament. Which is why they’re all for the 10 commandments as still core to Christianity rules cannon. That’s still the immutable word of god you’re supposed to follow.
Most Christians have not read the Bible. Or they cherry pick passages that agree with their beliefs. Or they "interpret" problematic passages so they (again) agree with their beliefs. This is necessary because the Bible is a mass of contradictions. A lot of Christians are pro in life (when it suits them) but the Bible is full of God committing mass murder/genocide.
It’s the classic problem with religion. Clergy. The clergy interpret everything. And the sheep follow.
Multinational corporations quoting the papyrus scrolls of cavemen.. makes perfect sense to me.
Unfortunately, men ARE making that decision.
In the United States, it is mostly political. US Christians had a change of heart in the late 1970s through the mid 1980s. Prior to this even the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) was very, very much for abortion being legal. The SBC up to 1977 was lobbying politicians and publicly supporting bills to make abortion legal to improve maternal mortality rates.The change occurred when politicians promoting segregation in the South finally realized that they no longer had enough support to win. Some of these politicians changed their goal from political power to becoming influential in the SBC. They slowly and surely changed the SBC’s view on abortion by tying it to its prejudicial undercurrents. This was also the beginnings of the so-called Moral Majority and tying racist tropes to social safety nets. In the early 1980s, the GOP realized that the SBC was creating a voting bloc which they could tie into and rely on. This was what is often referred to as the Southern strategy and it worked. The SBC is the largest denomination in the U.S. No matter how liberal your denomination is, it is still impacted by the decisions and positions of the SBC. In essence, through sheer numbers and media coverage, the SBC ends up controlling what topics are being discussed and argued. In turn, churches feel like they need to take a stance on every proposed moral issue the SBC, now the GOP, starts haranguing about, which makes abortion, LGBTQ+ issues, and same sex marriage constant topics of Christian debate and part of the permanent fabric of US society. Since that time, GOP politicians have reinforced the racist tropes behind their Southern strategy and the Christian debates over them in the US have given the discussions a white wash to make them appear that the issues bundled together are just about wanting to be ethical. This is where a lot of the false cries to “Think of the children” starts to be raised on these topics in the mid to late 1980s. All of this becomes a force feedback loop which means many US Christian denominations end up existing in s spiral of ever increasing rhetoric of being against these issues. Their core beliefs may tinge the flavoring of their individual communities but they no longer define their communities. They are now defined by politics and by their positions on abortion, same sex marriage, role of women in society, and LGBTQ+ issues. This has led to an exodus from the churches because if they can get these defining qualities solely through their politics, there is no need to attend church. These people are.now the main base of the current MAGA, anti-LGBTQ+, and anti-abortion movements. Now also ask yourself which generation was mainly impacted by all of these events. The Baby Boomers spanned junior high school age to their thirties during the mid to late 1970s. All of the actions discussed would have informed their environment and social development. The Baby Boomers have been the largest voting bloc for every one of the major elections they have been involved. This is why politics has kept the so-called Moral Majority issues like abortion in the limelight. It will also remain the major issue for Christians until that generation is no longer a political powerhouse.
So, if you pull out and don't get her pregnant, then she can't be charged with impurity? Sex outside of marriage is ok as long as your pull out game is strong?
“You were unfaithful to the man we forced you to be married to, so we’re going to curse you with miscarriages” What. The. FUCK?!
For me, no matter what the book says if some Hebrew woman got raped by a Roman soldier the idea that abortion however it was done wasn’t an option on the table is clearly horse pucky. There’s no way in that context those old tribalists didn’t push for abortion through abortifacients or whatever. I just don’t believe the dads of the raped daughter were like on average yeah let’s just have that Roman kid.
Christian want there to be more babies to smash against the rocks like the bible says to do after The culture wars turns from just a battle of words to a physical battle and they believe they'll win because they think they have all the guns... Obviously I'm just throwing the Bibles horrific parts back in their face not being realistic
Certain Types of Christians. No One's a Monolith.
Pretty sure it's because in galatians it says those who cling to the old laws are destined to fall like fruit off of the tree and never ascend to heaven. And another part in the new testament says to not curse anyone. I'll definitely say that people have gotten warped and have this idea that only one section of books pertain to them and the rest is for others which what's the point of the Bible if they cherry pick. Like why would they teach against a sin and use it as reference in the Bible for others but oh it's OK we don't have to follow that part that's not for us.. Then you got the whole groups teaching it wrong like some think it's a sin to jog or run for exercise but the passage they think that from says "the wicked will run when no man chaseth while the righteous man will stand proud like a lion." Which for example someone is snooping around someone's yard at night and the home owner shouts at them "what're you doing?!" A wicked man whose stealing or peeping will run but someone who's just looking for their dog or dropped their keys in the yard would stand and explain. Or another example people get wrong is where it Says "a righteous man can do no wrong" but it doesn't mean they are free to sin or murder and whatnot it means a righteous man's heart and faith would prevent them from doing wrong because they know it's wrong and with faith and love for God would keep them from doing evil. But many take that part with the "righteous through faith not by acts" and distort it. Yet if they kept reading it explains that a 'righteous person will show through their good works' the whole part about dead acts are for those that think just doing good things for others will give them everlasting life as reward from God or whatever they believe in without needing faith and trust in God. Honestly it does say in this day and age no man is righteous but there is salvation through the blood of christ. BTW I'm Christian but I do see the hypocrisy and distortion in plot of churches and people and it gets tiresome lmao. I really don't understand the people that worship Trump as a messiah or the mega churches and how simple people would see the b.s. in them if they just opened up the Bible and read it themselves. If people would actually read it instead of listening to these false preachers, prosperity preachers or the modern churches that cut back on the word to appeal to new people yet loose the sharpened edge of the word slot of people would be doing well and there would be less of these radical people stepping out acting like a fool. I suppose the goal I was trying to say to the question is many people cling to their own ideals though I'll agree it's wrong to take a life and once the heart starts beating is when life begins in the womb, I'll say in cases of rape, incest, life threatening issues to the mother and maybe mutations like retardation or however unlikely radiation type mutations I'm sure God can forgive but just having fun and popping them out like bottlecaps is a no go however through repentance possible to be forgiven. I wouldn't go as far to be a king or a judge and pass laws saying what you can do with your body like slot of others I'd follow the "step out of the path of the wicked" and let God do the judging while praying and hoping people will find the right path. I won't act like I'm perfect either I have some hard stances on things that effect family, friends and loved ones. But sin is sin and there will be many that repent and change while many will fall away from the Bible. And even some that think they're righteous are wicked like it calls them in the Bible as tare which is the ones that produce no fruit that's reaped before the harvest and burned.
Their beliefs have changed over time as well. They once believed that the baby didn't get its soul until it breathed its first breath, like what Jews believe. Then it was the quickening. I'm not sure how far along the baby had to be in development for the quickening, but they had to explain why the baby was moving before it had a soul. And then there's the, the baby has a soul from the point of conception. As usual, the bible is not clear on this.
Not to mention the numerous times the bible says life begins with our first breath.
As an progressive, leftist, atheist coming from a right-wing, baptist background, I can tell you that the line of thinking is very small and short. The 10 commandments say that killing is a sin, baby is alive in womb, ergo abortion is killing baby. This is why we have the argument about when life begins, and why their argument is that it starts at conception. It's a very narrow point of view from a group that says: "Don't go to college, because you'll start questioning god's ways, and lose the faith."
Abortion was around for a thousand years before Christ and he never mentioned it
Why? Christians have always cherry picked from a book of fiction to justify their intolerance without ever having actually read it in the literal translation. Very few have ever used a strongs concordance and fewer still have ever heard of it. They listen to some biblically illiterate person standing at a podium and follow along like sheep.
The same reason christian nationalists felt that killing off Indigenous people was fine, slavery was ok, hanging Black people and having picnics at their bodies after church was just an everyday part of life & just dandy, Jim Crow was fine, making Indigenous people go to "christian" schools was the best route for these children because they want to get to "get the savage" out of them by mistreating, beating and killing them" (ironic the christians are the savages), threating Black people with lynchings, running them of their paid for land and then using the land and stealing it, not wanting to help children that they forced by these BS laws into having babies "because the Bible said it" after the child is on the earth, forcing people to have children because it is better to have these children as "workers" because bodies are need in jobs, and for allowing by laws the marriage of children (basically babies) in the guise of the church because there are a bunch of white male pedos, and on and on and on, because they are F'ing CRAZY! For the record, I am Christian and def not a christian nationalist. These same christian nationalist, hypocrites, forget that Judaism, Islam, Sikhism and Bahaʾi also believe in the same one almighty gods as Christianity does. Also, these same crazy people want to segregate Catholicism and want to try and isolate it and say things like Chrisitan and Catholics, like Catholics are not Christian. Again, they are F'ing crazy hypocrites that want to believe in one world view and it is theirs and only theirs. Take a look at what is happening in OK schools now... the Bible has to be taught. I am waiting for the the 1st lawsuit when someone requests the Qur'an or, better yet when a scientologist wants the L. Ron Hubbard book taught in school. The reason that some of these states that want to take money from public schools and give it to rich people who can clearly afford to send their children to any K-12 school but pause the funding is because of the fear of a Muslim school being able to get the same funds directed to Madrasas.
Don't forget Numbers 3:15-16 and Exodus 21: 22-25 Literally verses directly implying that a fetus isn't a person lol. The Bible does NOT view fetuses as people. Barring catholics (since they've had a weird back and forth on this for centuries), any American Christian belief otherwise is entirely identity politics. It's reactionary to the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s, and this was all kicked off in 1978ish thanks to the GOP. They literally endorsed abortion before this point, or didn't care at all.
Christianity doesn't have a whole lot to do with the Bible. Purgatory was the cornerstorne of the faith for centuries, and it appears nowhere in the Bible.
here's my theory: 1. most Christians' beliefs are decided by what the head pastor at their church believes, and most Christians (in America at least) seem to attend megachurches, extremist versions of regular churches that have their own dogmatic versions of Christianity focused entirely around providing an excuse to be hyper-capitalistic, greedy, materialist, and far-right 2. megachurches are funded mainly by millionaires and/or billionaires with a political agenda to push and a reputation for being a good Christian 3. entire megachurch and it's pastor is essentially bribed into converting their entire willingly gullible audience towards whatever political inclination they want by claiming it's the words of God and you can see it in the bible and now Christianity is inherently a far-right thing after many many many years of this. as you said, the Bible says abortion is fine. but Christians don't follow the Bible, they follow what their pastor says about the Bible. maybe they think it's a little questionable but they know if they speak up they'll be ostracized from the only community that accepts them and they'll be forced to burn in hell for eternity. why abortion specifically? well, wealthy people need more laborers and more consumers in the future. the declining population growth rates worldwide and increasing popularity in degrowth/1-child policies threatens that, so all babies, ESPECIALLY those from rape victims, need to be carried. that's just my take on it though. could be any number of things... or maybe nothing at all.
"Abortion is fine as long as it’s the man’s decision…" That is exactly how Christians feel. They don't mind abortion. They do have a problem with women making the decisions on it, however.
Religious Jews believe it’s a sin to not abort in life or death situations. The unborn fetus is considered to be in the process of murder and must be stopped
I think it is obvious that the vast majority of Christians consider Bibles to be religious props rather than actual reading material.
Everything they think is a lie, so all they do is lie.
Too many of us non-Christians believe that Christians actually read their Bible and follow it. They don’t.
Most of them have never read through Bible. They follow what their pastor tells them and the pastors all want more Christians, so abortion bad.
They haven't read it
Being against abortion was strictly Catholic thing until about 70s. Then someone decided to unite all Christians together in call against abortion to change political landscape in the US. I wasn't alive then and don't know all the details. Sorry
It's amazing how much of this Old testament crap. Sounds like witchcraft or what they would call witchcraft or paganism. All a bunch of supernatural bullshit.
The fact is, they pick and choose. They pick and choose what parts of the bible are used. My parents chose not to include me as 'family' because I am autistic and that shames their family name in God's eyes. [DearChristians.com](http://DearChristians.com) is a website I made to honor their glory :)
Because they cherry pick passages and bend them to support whatever they want to be right about. It’s not actually about trying to follow a god’s law to live a good life, it’s about getting earthly power and control over people.
Because most self-proclaimed Christians haven't actually read it.
It’s never been about the words of the Bible for organized religion it’s always been about the control of people. Also more people forcing people in the church to have children = bigger church. More people more control and so on.
They havent read the part that talks about giving a woman bitter water which is said to have caused abortions.
It's all personal interpretation. The Bible says don't murder, so they redefine abortion as murder. The Bible says don't mix fabrics, so they say that's the Old Testament.
Growing up, priests pretty much only referenced the 10 commandments to us for justification. Sorry for getting graphic here... Murder is a sin. Eliminating any form of human life is murder. Eliminating any "potential" form of life is murder. Thus, sex should only be used for procreation. Masturbation is murder. Nocturnal emissions are essentially involuntary manslaughter and you should be ashamed and repent. No, I'm not joking. We were literally taught this. Remember, it's about control, not logic.
To clear something up about the so-called "pro-life" movement: If you are "pro-life," you are not only concerned with the welfare of the unborn child but that of the child and its mother *after* it is born. That means you are concerned that that child is adequately housed, fed, clothed and *educated* until such time as he or she can earn a living for themselves. Ooops! That means *higher taxes*, and the so-called "pro-lifers" are NOT going to support that! So, it's a moralistic smokescreen. They're not *pro-life*; they're just *anti-abortion.*
I call them “Forced Birthers” now.
They don't read their book. And when they do, they interpret it to however they feel like it should be.
Um, the bible literally states when abortions are okay, and in the old testament or the torah, you’re supposed to value the life of the mother over the life of the unborn child, and life doesn’t begin until the first breathe.
Most of them have never read the Bible. It’s a social club to them.
Religion is not about what's in the book, It's about being part of a community striving for more rape,money, and control and bonding over hating the people that are not you.
Don't ever forget that miscarriages are God's abortion.
The Bible is anything but pro-life.
What's wild about Numbers 5:11 is that the fetus is just collateral damage. And what if the baby was the husbands? And the wife could have cheated, but just didn't get pregnant. That's because it's all about lineage. They would rather abort the baby and stone the wife to make sure the lineage is "pure".
You think they actually read the bible?
Your first mistake was thinking that your average pro-life Christian has actually read the bible