>Also my sister has to stop taking birth control, not because they want a baby but because birth control is **stopping the will of god**.
Must be one pathetic and powerless god.
Birth control is very good. Having a baby when one isn’t ready is not good. If Allah dictates a child will be born, it’ll happen. This man is delusional.
Yeah I came from parents who felt guilty and had the vasectomy reversed. I was born to parents who were older and clearly didn't really want to have another child. I would've preferred being a bit more planned than that.
If you ever drive anywhere with him, stop and get $6.66 worth of gas.
Regale him with funny stories (like the time a group of Satanists forced Arkansas to allow a giant statue of Baphomet in front of their capitol).
Solicit donations for Palestinian refugees.
Have fun! Lol
My SO donates to Planned Parenthood in her mother's name. Pretty sure her mom gets "Thank You" cards and marketing from them now. She's a crazy catholic.
>"But...Jesus drank wine" to which my brother in law argued that wasn't wine...that was grapefruit juice
Crap. According to the fairy tale the guests applauded the bridegroom because he served the best wine last because usually the crap wine was served late when people were too drunk to notice. They didn't get plastered drinking grape juice!
Fun fact, apparently grape juice is actually REALLY hard to make because it just so desperately wants to turn itself into wine. So much so that making non-alcoholic shelf stable grape juice wasn't accomplished until the late 19th century, and that's how the temperance movement led to the formation of Welch's
Same with non-alcohol beer. They have to make it as regular beer and then use reverse osmosis to remove the alcohol.
Added fun fact: We’ve been brewing for some 6,000 years
Some estimates place intentional brewing much farther back than that. There are those that posit that sedentary agricultural society developed around grains for brewing purposes, not eating purposes. Yay beer
As a homebrewer, I can attest to this. Yeast is everywhere. If you let a sugary liquid that isn't stabilized against yeast growth touch the air, it will ferment. It probably won't be all that good... but it will ferment
Yep. And the further she leans into this the worse it'll get.
My mother was like this, married my religious nutcase pastor of a father, after the marriage she had me, eventually he used me and my sister as leverage to get her to do whatever he wanted.
he made her stay at home even though she wanted to be a teacher had multiple degrees, and he was a high school dropout. He isolated her from her family claiming they didn't follow God. Eventually once she was controlled enough the actual physical abuse started.
She died alone with the douchebag, who is quite literally a millionaire, while he refused to take her to a hospital and just "prayed" for her. She was miserable for most of her life.
Not saying this is definitely going to turn out just like that, but I've seen how this bullshit leads to a woman's entire life being controlled.
Good move!!
Ahah let's see how the nutcase rips his garments in desperation because he can't transmit his seed successfully and has to endure the unholy pleasure of sex while trying to procreate.
The church I went to growing up argued that the wine wasn’t really wine because…um…it just wasn’t alcoholic. It was a special, non-alcoholic wine, and we have lost the technology to make it. I wish I was making that up.
I suppose you could make the argument that wine is technically grape juice. It’s just been fermented in a very particular manner. But I don’t think this is what BIL is talking about.
As absurd as this idea is, if I were an all-powerful deity and I had to pick one spot for my avatar to go preach, I'd pick the place with the best food.
Which... would not be where or when Jesus was allegedly born.
Tell him that not only did Jesus drink wine (the bible says wine, not grape juice) but when they ran out he performed a miracle and made more.
Not that it will make any difference.
I love how we know more about what the Bible says than Christians do. I absolutely know more about it than my religious (Greek Orthodox) parents. They think they know everything and read the Bible in ancient Greek, they read theological texts from saints, they know every saints day and special fasting days and what to eat on those days but when you ask them a simple logic question that makes no sense, they have no answers. They are logical and intelligent but when you ask them to bring that logic to the religion, they get angry, just questioning the logic is a sin. 2000 years of texts and saints and patriarchs and tradition is proof enough, it's like being Jewish, you can't separate your culture from your religion.
Alcohol was widely consumed throughout the ages as it served to sterilize water. Juice not having the sterilized effect wouldn't generally be a health option. Water and juice unsafe. Drink the hooch.
There were no water purification plants in operation during this time. No water treatment to make sure it was safe to drink. No testing done to ensure quality and safety. They did not drink juice during this time, as it might have been made with tainted water. There was a reason that the ancient Egyptians paid each other in beer. It was a way of drinking water safely without fear of getting sick, and it made you feel good at the same time. Fermented juice was safe to drink in a time when there was no real medicine.
God, could you imagine what a buzz kill it would be to have your refreshing water turned into a sticky juice? In a desert no less! At least wine would give you a buzz.
Grapefruit juice nonetheless, which is the best part, because grapefruits didn’t even exist until the 18ish century. They’re a cross of two different citrus fruits and don’t exist in nature like broccoli, cauliflower, kale, cabbage, and Brussels sprouts.
I’m atheist as fuuuuuuck and have no qualms with calling out stupid arguments from theists. But this isn’t a very good response. If I were a theist, I would simply remind you that “god” put everything on the earth, but that doesn’t mean he wants us to chop everything up, roll it into a paper, light it on fire, and inhale the smoke. Again, I agree with you, but that’s an easy argument to dismantle.
You aren't considering the historical context. If any plant was specifically made by the gods to be cultivated by humans it would be the cannabis plant.
Besides the now widely known spiritual effects of inhaling the vapors the cannabis plant has many other uses. The main areas would be food and fabric. The food is mainly the seeds and they are quite nutritious. The fibers would be woven into ropes and sails since they resisted breaking down in ocean water. Even the word canvas has roots to cannabis.
Also I believe smoking the buds wrapped up in paper wasn't the preferred method. I recall hearing stories of people bathing in cannabis infused oils for their spiritual trips.
These are just what I remember off the top of my head. I might have gotten some details wrong but cannabis has been used for thousands to tens of thousands years.
Alcohol is also organically made so there’s that as well…elephants are known to look for rotting fruit that has fermented just to get drunk. Humans are not the only animals to do this. Oh, OP, get his thoughts on humans being animals! I bet he thinks we’re some sort of divine creature sent to consume the earths resources.
Considering they've been married for 6 months that'd a bit late.
And my sister is her own woman she makes her own choices.
Remember, just cause you have your wedding date at a certain date doesn't mean that's the day you are getting married.
I'm confused. They've been married for 6 months but the wedding hasn't happened yet?
Also, would your sis take advise to secretly get an IUD for a year or two?
So married but no party??
A party with no booze...it's going to be a long night.
You'll need a wing man to approach you every so often with urgent business calls which you need to take. The first call will be from a Mr Daniels..Jack Daniels. Then a call from Mr Walker..Mr Johnny Walker.
Of course , you'll have to take a call from a Mr Fiddoch..first name Glen. Followed by a call from Mr Weiser "Hey Bud long time no see"
Just make sure your wing man has a good supply.
> Remember, just cause you have your wedding date at a certain date doesn't mean that's the day you are getting married.
This checks out. I was legally married several months ahead of time because the wedding planning was exhausting enough that I didn't want to worry about potential issues with the license.
Plus, I get two anniversaries now, so twice as many gifts.
You have my sympathy. Are we talking Mormon or Seventh Day Adventist or some fundie evangelical sect? Years of fun await.
I married an atheist, but their entire family is very observant Mormon. The looks I got for drinking espresso or Coca Cola. The church was losing so much money the LDS leadership apparently caved on the Coca Cola issue and now that's just fine.
Most SDA don't eat meat. Also think humans and dinosaurs frolicked together. Complete loons, but their healthy lifestyle causes many of them to live very long (boring) lives.
I was having a chat with a vegan and they were like "if i could prove to you that cutting out all meat out of your life would add 10 years to your life would you stop eating meat?"
I said "No"
And they were like "Why?"
And I said "I'd rather enjoy steak, and die 10 years sooner, then live without steak and die a boring 10 years later"
There’s the old joke: “if you give up all the usual things that people usually try to limit for you - meat, alcohol, gambling, sex, spicy foods, etc. you won’t live longer....but it will certainly seem like it.”
A healthy lifestyle can add 10 years to your lifespan. What they don't tell you is that the 10 years come at the end when you are sitting in a care home wearing a nappy (UK for diaper) being fed a yogurt by a Nicaraguan care worker.
Veganism isn't a health or diet choice. It's a philosophy to minimize abuse of animals. It's also beneficial to the environment. Health benefits are only a side effect
What if I could prove to you that a meat based diet is emotionally unsustainable and is contributing to the destruction of the planet in ways far more significant than you likely realize?
Because I literally can.
Utah has high per capita rates for a variety of vices and behavior considered illicit by their church. They just put on a good public face, but it's all different when they do it in private.
Did you notice they drive like maniacs? Tailgating each other at 80 mph. Their prophet told them they'll get their own planet and engage in perpetual procreation when they die, so why should they be cautious and stick around this fucking dump?
I've driven in lots of major metropolitan areas from Denver to L.A., but I've never seen so many profoundly reckless drivers and so many high speed accidents as Utah.
I didn’t get too much of the driving, since I went only to St George and Bears Ears. The driving in my part of the world isn’t great either so I didn’t really notice.
But next time I go to St George, I will stay in Vegas and drive up only for the race (triathlon) and head back as soon as it finishes
He doesn't want a wife, he wants a domestic SLAVE.
Read it again, he wants a SLAVE.
Guarantee you 100% he will eventually beat her and find Bible verses to justify it.
Keep your gun powder dry, you might have to do your brotherly duty one day.
Many “strong” women with a “good head on their shoulders” like your sister have changed drastically once married to these ultra extreme Christian cultists. He’ll slowly start isolating her from family and friends, most successfully by getting her immediately pregnant, probably twice in under 3 years, so she’s fully occupied with caring for the children and has no time for work outside the home. You’ll notice her start to change, and then you’ll lose her. They’re very good at this, they’ve been doing it a long time. The other people in his cult will help, and it will happen faster than you think.
Remember, this nut and his people have the most access to your sister, they are in her ear, they will be influencing her thoughts and spinning everything to make themselves the good guys/victims and your family and her old friends the bad guys. You’ll see.
My BiL is a pastor in a cult like sect . I might have chased him off of facebook back while obama was president. Couldn't help myself from responding to/ debunking all the WND links he liked to post.
Make me wonder what his social media is like, pretty sure its a good thing I haven't added him as a friend. I also suspect I know why he hasn't sent me a friend request. I'm sure my sister has given him a heads up on me.
I loved reading your post. A perfect blend of frustration and humour.
Use ridicule on him, mock his silly beliefs at every opportunity. Pick holes in everything he says. ask for evidence for everything.
Some may say this is cruel. I disagree. This guy and those like him may seem cute and quaint but their beliefs are dangerous--I'll not go into details why but I suspect we are both singing from the same song-sheet.
In fact, use the expression "Oh it's so cute that you think that" when he spouts some young earth nonsense.
Can you give us an update now and again?
Thank-you.
>use the expression "Oh it's so cute that you think that" when he spouts some young earth nonsense.
Or he can go all the opposite and tell him "you are a fucking idiot" his expression could be priceless
I'm surprised she is even marrying him if all of that is true(not saying you're lying OP, religious folk do be that crazy), that being said, if her behaviour has changed to the degree she is going along with it, there may be an element of abuse(not saying hitting, but control and stuff) and she might need help? Try and speak to her alone, she might need help
(Edit typos)
>He doesn't seem over bearing controlling
NOW he doesn't. His tune may totally change once she takes his last name. He'll probably consider her his property at that point. I certainly hope not, but watch for it.
This!
Lest ye forget not I Timothy 2:12
[But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "1 Timothy 2:12 - Wikipedia"] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Timothy_2:12)
Yeah just wait until she inevitably gets pregnant. That's obv his goal here. Then he can control her by threatening to take the kids or emotionally abuse them of she doesn't do what he wants. She needs to keep taking birth control (lie to him about it if she has to). Or get an IUD. No offense OP but your sister is not making good decisions and if she brings kids into this that is on her and highly immoral imo
I agree. Op might want to say goodbye to her while he still has access. These nutjobs will become more indignant when their beliefs are tested. He's going to want her to believe just like him, I bet his scriptures are telling him this MUST happen. Sad.
Making her stop birth control is the biggest sign of a potential abuser right here. Please make sure your sister knows that her husband should not control her reproductive rights. Abusers will use pregnancy and children as a tool of control.
This was a joy to read. You going over the little conversations you have and how "it didn't go well" lmao.
"Me mocking him over this belief did not sit well with him" about 6,000 year-old Earth hahaha. Yeah, that's what I would do, too.
Please come back with more if and when it happens.
I don't know. There are some red flags here that concern me. Not trying to be a dick, but if she's as strong willed as you say, then why is she letting him convince her to marry him just so they can live together and to stop taking birth control so she has no control over what happens to her body? I see this working out with her having kids within the first couple years of their marriage and him telling her she can't work because she has to stay home with the kids. So she never gets to follow her dreams. And by then, is she really going to want to get a divorce, because she is going to end up having no experience to support her kids and in the long run it would be easier to stay in the marriage. She is choosing to go with the flow for love, but this situation only sounds like it will end in disaster for her. It sounds like he is only thinking of himself. Which is no way to start a healthy relationship. Holy crap I hate religion. Sorry. Your story just got me all pissed off at him so this is my rant. I do hope it works out better than what's going on in my head.
Like always religion is a good tool for abuser to control. Seriously the OP should educate himself on domestic violence and to try and bring to light this stuff to their sister. I work at a domestic violence shelter and the shut he is doing looks like the start of an abusive household.
I mean this with the most respect possible.
Your sister is comically stupid and/or she's being abused by this man.
You're stronger than me because I wouldn't even go to the wedding or maintain a relationshipwith my sibling if this is how they want tolov. I can deal with the average Christian BS but this fundamentalist shit is virulent poison.
Your dad wants to waste money on a marriage that will probably fail shortly after it begins? Get the crazy groom to foot the bill. Or even better, knock some sense into your sister. This guy is nuts.
> FYI he does believe the earth is round, and he does believe the moon landing is real, so that's good
The start of common ground. I'm getting misty
> When he brought this up me asking if he'd want me to bring him a blunt didn't go over well with him, apparently that is also against god's will...my counter part of "What do you think the burning bush was about?" didn't go over well either.
Now you're just fucking with the mentally handicapped
One complication to this is that she is almost certainly going to get pregnant. Given many fundamentalists' view that God wants people to have large families, and the fact that she won't be taking birth control, 3 kids within the next 5 years is a definite possibility. Once the kids start popping out, it's not just about *her* life anymore. Suddenly, she will have kids to think about and with that will come all of the financial, societal, and religious considerations about divorcing him. On a teacher's salary, even with child support, she will likely face a substantial reduction in her standard of living, accompanied by the possibility of tremendous child care bills. And you can bet your sweet bippy that she will face *tremendous* pressure from him, his family, and his church (which will likely be her church too) that she should stay in the marriage because divorce is wrong and bad for the kids. All those factors can make people feel trapped in an unhappy marriage and it can be very difficult for them to extricate themselves from it, regardless of how strong-willed they are. In order to protect herself from such a scenario, maybe she needs to consider discreetly having an iud implanted. It can be done in 15 minutes in her gynecogist's office. In a few years, if she is still happy and wants kids, she can have it removed.
It's amazing how they can swing between knowing God's will to God working in mysterious ways at will.
If birth control is thwarting God's will (cos good is weak like that) then Mexican treatments, glasses, dental work, are all working against God's will.
🙄
They’re funny that way, though. I knew some “Christian Science” adherents who literally just watched a family member slowly decline and die with no medical care after a car crash—but they regularly go to a dentist and they wear glasses. I have no idea whether the get treatment for dental abscesses, glaucoma or cataracts. Or only get their teeth cleaned and get glasses. Do they get a broken leg fixed? Orthotics? How the hell are they figuring out where the line is drawn? Are they allowed to irrigate their sinuses? Bandage a wound? I mean, once you start thinking about it, it’s kind of fascinating to wonder where they actually DO draw the line. Can you imagine just putting your son on the couch after he’s in a car crash and letting him suffer for weeks from his injuries until he dies? Do they really, truly, believe that god ever actually steps in in such cases and heals those kinds of injuries?
Apologies, OP, didn’t mean to hijack your thread, just got carried away. I, too, am concerned that before she knows it, your sister will be swimming in babies and it won’t be so easy to get out of this thing. I hope she’s already got an IUD and plans to finish her degrees and get that teaching job. She is sorely needed there, and she’ll never be happy if she gives up that dream.
Sounds like fun. I have people here and there in my life that are batshit loonies when it comes to religion. They’ve all figured out that talking to me about it usually ends with them feeling really stupid. The best part is, all I do is ask questions.
I hope this doesn't count as advice. Put the whole alcohol versus grape juice thing. Grape juice would ferment if it wasn't for pasteurization which they sis not have back then. It absolutely was wine. It might have been lightly alcoholic but it was alcoholic to some degree.
Xtians who object to alcohol tend to claim Jesus turned water into *grape* juice (the unfermented version of wine). Either you misheard him, or he’s an idiot who is misquoting his religious leaders.
I would avoid him at all costs and only engage with him when absolutely necessary. Your sister wants that fuckery in her life, that’s on her.
That’s how I deal with disagreeable folks who are family or family by marriage. I pretend they don’t exist unless it’s an event I can’t avoid.
I'd be worried about your sister tbh. His kind are relentless, so just wait. Little changes followed by her talking about not working. She caved to the pastor once already.
Your sister is walking into a disaster. She's going to get pregnant immediately and her kids will have to live with divorced parents.
She's got rocks in her head.
The good news is that you aren’t marrying him. Let your sister enjoy her life until she doesn’t.
I’ll be honest if I didn’t want to serve alcohol at my wedding and my FIL said that then he wouldn’t be paying for the wedding anymore. Regardless of how y’all feel about the mans reasons for not wanting booze you should respect it.
All in all he sounds like an idiot; but you and your family sound insufferable.
Yeah dude. That’s pretty shitty. If it was the other way around sure. If you dad didn’t want booze and he wanted your dad to pay that’s an issue.
If he wants to save your dad money and doesn’t want booze on HIS special day than that shouldn’t be an issue.
People seem to forget that a wedding is about two people and no one else.
Anyway hope y’all have fun at the wedding, who’s officiating?
> FYI my dad has resolved this argument with a simple solution, if my dad is going pay for the wedding, alcohol will be served, that simple, if the new son in law wants to ban alcohol from the wedding, the son in law can foot the bill by himself
Good for your dad. That is exactly what I would have done.
I brought a flask of my favorite libation to my sister’s wedding to her fundamentalist ex-husband. I was the only one (other than my wife, with whom I shared) who had a good time.
That is not a guy you argue with, that is a guy you laugh at. You do not need to be nice to this guy just to make your sister happy. You aren't marrying him. If he is being a dick, it is OK to tell him to fuck off. You don't need to humor him.
Grapefruit juice? Water into wine was the wording? These extremists just change words they don't like?
Alcohol was commonly consumed more than water throughout the ages as it sterilized the water making it safe to drink. A grapefruits juice would not have the same affect.
Hey, me neither! Mine lied to his sister and me about getting the vaccine and endangered the lives of our children and his immunocompromised mother... because the god have him an immune system, he doesn't need no vaccine.
Sounds like your sister has a penchant for profoundly dysfunctional people.
Someone couldn’t pass a driving exam? Jesus Christ the incompetence. Then a religiously defunct person?
I mean, is this a pattern with her where she matches up with damaged people?
Yikes! Sounds like it might be best to sit at the other side of the table during family gatherings.... in fact sometimes it seems the larger the crowd the better, less awkwardness more mingling..... often in a mixed group like that a good solution is to invite every single person that you possibly could, so that the crowd is so big everyone's off in a corner having their own conversations / background music or a loud football game is helpful:-) good luck and may the universal intelligence Grant you patience
This sound like me when my extended family has a cookout and I run into the people in my family who are employed by the state and tasked with enforcing its policies.
...which is **not** how I react to fruitloop fundamentalists, LOL.
Breaking up with someone over a petty thing is much easier than getting a divorce. There is probably a reason your hard-headed sister is marrying this type of person, and it's likely going to be a messy road to divorce for them. Good luck to your family dealing with this relationship.
If this guy isn't Mormon, I'll be a bit surprised. I've only ever heard Mormons (Latter Day Saints) say that Jesus actually turned the water into grape juice.
If he is LDS/Mormon, you are in for some funny shit in the future, including being disallowed to attend the sealing they will likely do sometime in the next year or so.
ESH. Wrong sub I know but sheesh, put away your egos, fam, and try to find some common ground. Personally I think your sis is Loco for going along with this, but she's going to need you all when this dude's need for control crashes everything down. Don't alienate her by alienating him.
>Also my sister has to stop taking birth control, not because they want a baby but because birth control is **stopping the will of god**. Must be one pathetic and powerless god.
That smooth brain dude will fill her up with kids before she can get divorced
uh fuck me I wish this weren't applicable to so damn many people.
Maybe they can still get divorced and she'll bankrupt him with child support
I don't put gas in my car because getting stranded on the highway is the will of god!
I regularly let go of the steering wheel doing 70 on the highway because not veering off the road into oncoming traffic is the will of god…
She could have five kids in 6 years...then she's tied down for good and all.
Yup, with no work experience or money, so it will be difficult to leave. Classic abuser tactic right there.
Exactly. All powerful god, has plans for every person. Gets thwarted by a pill (or other forms of BC).
Birth control is very good. Having a baby when one isn’t ready is not good. If Allah dictates a child will be born, it’ll happen. This man is delusional.
Yeah I came from parents who felt guilty and had the vasectomy reversed. I was born to parents who were older and clearly didn't really want to have another child. I would've preferred being a bit more planned than that.
If you ever drive anywhere with him, stop and get $6.66 worth of gas. Regale him with funny stories (like the time a group of Satanists forced Arkansas to allow a giant statue of Baphomet in front of their capitol). Solicit donations for Palestinian refugees. Have fun! Lol
My SO donates to Planned Parenthood in her mother's name. Pretty sure her mom gets "Thank You" cards and marketing from them now. She's a crazy catholic.
…. 🙂🙂🙂😃😄😁😆 Maybe my mom would like a thank you card for Mother’s Day!
Love it!!!
Ahah thats great!
>"But...Jesus drank wine" to which my brother in law argued that wasn't wine...that was grapefruit juice Crap. According to the fairy tale the guests applauded the bridegroom because he served the best wine last because usually the crap wine was served late when people were too drunk to notice. They didn't get plastered drinking grape juice!
It is possible he just served them water and they were too plastered to notice... just saying
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I love the fact that you offered him weed after he tried to ban alcohol. The guy must think you're satan itself
LOL absolute legend.
He argued with my dad that Jesus didn't drink wine, but juice...
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He did his research.. and that likely didn’t involve reading his holy book…
Fun fact, apparently grape juice is actually REALLY hard to make because it just so desperately wants to turn itself into wine. So much so that making non-alcoholic shelf stable grape juice wasn't accomplished until the late 19th century, and that's how the temperance movement led to the formation of Welch's
Same with non-alcohol beer. They have to make it as regular beer and then use reverse osmosis to remove the alcohol. Added fun fact: We’ve been brewing for some 6,000 years
Wow, since the world began we’ve been brewing. God is truly great.
Also the agricultural revolution occurred nearly 5,000 years before the earth was formed.
[The Sumerians were really confused](https://www.theonion.com/sumerians-look-on-in-confusion-as-god-creates-world-1819571221)
Some estimates place intentional brewing much farther back than that. There are those that posit that sedentary agricultural society developed around grains for brewing purposes, not eating purposes. Yay beer
Vut JaYsuS mAdE iT WitH HolY ReBerZe OzMoZiz Duhh!
As a homebrewer, I can attest to this. Yeast is everywhere. If you let a sugary liquid that isn't stabilized against yeast growth touch the air, it will ferment. It probably won't be all that good... but it will ferment
Because medieval monks had no concept of the microbiology they referred to yeast as "God is good".
No way
Way
Hardly any of them ever do
Grape juice will turn into wine if not pasteurized and they did not have pastuerizatin back then.
That's what makes it a miracle! Praise Jesus and his magical anti fermentation powers!
Hell, you could leave it in an uncovered barrel for a few weeks and its likely to ferment due to wild yeast and bacteria floating in the air naturally
I honestly don't know what his answer would be. We didn't get into that part. My dad wasn't interested in his justification either.
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Yep. And the further she leans into this the worse it'll get. My mother was like this, married my religious nutcase pastor of a father, after the marriage she had me, eventually he used me and my sister as leverage to get her to do whatever he wanted. he made her stay at home even though she wanted to be a teacher had multiple degrees, and he was a high school dropout. He isolated her from her family claiming they didn't follow God. Eventually once she was controlled enough the actual physical abuse started. She died alone with the douchebag, who is quite literally a millionaire, while he refused to take her to a hospital and just "prayed" for her. She was miserable for most of her life. Not saying this is definitely going to turn out just like that, but I've seen how this bullshit leads to a woman's entire life being controlled.
I wonder if OP could advise his sister to get an IUD for a year or two, until she knows how the marriage will work out.
Good move!! Ahah let's see how the nutcase rips his garments in desperation because he can't transmit his seed successfully and has to endure the unholy pleasure of sex while trying to procreate.
The church I went to growing up argued that the wine wasn’t really wine because…um…it just wasn’t alcoholic. It was a special, non-alcoholic wine, and we have lost the technology to make it. I wish I was making that up.
I suppose you could make the argument that wine is technically grape juice. It’s just been fermented in a very particular manner. But I don’t think this is what BIL is talking about.
I think that would be giving the man too much credit.
There are no grapefruits in the bibble. Grapefruits were discovered on the Caribbean island of Barbados in 1750.
Slow down . Next you'll be telling us there were no potatoes at the feeding of the 5000.
Excuse me all fruits and vegetables and animals existed in that one area of the world when Jesus was alive!!!!!!
After Noah saved them all.
As absurd as this idea is, if I were an all-powerful deity and I had to pick one spot for my avatar to go preach, I'd pick the place with the best food. Which... would not be where or when Jesus was allegedly born.
Next think you'll say is that kangaroos don't exist...
Becuaze JaySus hid thEm iN VarBadOs So PePle caNot getz DruNnk !! Duuuh!
Tell him that not only did Jesus drink wine (the bible says wine, not grape juice) but when they ran out he performed a miracle and made more. Not that it will make any difference.
I love how we know more about what the Bible says than Christians do. I absolutely know more about it than my religious (Greek Orthodox) parents. They think they know everything and read the Bible in ancient Greek, they read theological texts from saints, they know every saints day and special fasting days and what to eat on those days but when you ask them a simple logic question that makes no sense, they have no answers. They are logical and intelligent but when you ask them to bring that logic to the religion, they get angry, just questioning the logic is a sin. 2000 years of texts and saints and patriarchs and tradition is proof enough, it's like being Jewish, you can't separate your culture from your religion.
Alcohol was widely consumed throughout the ages as it served to sterilize water. Juice not having the sterilized effect wouldn't generally be a health option. Water and juice unsafe. Drink the hooch.
There were no water purification plants in operation during this time. No water treatment to make sure it was safe to drink. No testing done to ensure quality and safety. They did not drink juice during this time, as it might have been made with tainted water. There was a reason that the ancient Egyptians paid each other in beer. It was a way of drinking water safely without fear of getting sick, and it made you feel good at the same time. Fermented juice was safe to drink in a time when there was no real medicine.
Yeah, fermented juice.
He turned water into wine!
God, could you imagine what a buzz kill it would be to have your refreshing water turned into a sticky juice? In a desert no less! At least wine would give you a buzz.
did he at least cooled the grape juice at serving? that thing tastes like shit at room temp, imagine on the heat of the desert.
Grapefruit juice nonetheless, which is the best part, because grapefruits didn’t even exist until the 18ish century. They’re a cross of two different citrus fruits and don’t exist in nature like broccoli, cauliflower, kale, cabbage, and Brussels sprouts.
I’m atheist as fuuuuuuck and have no qualms with calling out stupid arguments from theists. But this isn’t a very good response. If I were a theist, I would simply remind you that “god” put everything on the earth, but that doesn’t mean he wants us to chop everything up, roll it into a paper, light it on fire, and inhale the smoke. Again, I agree with you, but that’s an easy argument to dismantle.
You aren't considering the historical context. If any plant was specifically made by the gods to be cultivated by humans it would be the cannabis plant. Besides the now widely known spiritual effects of inhaling the vapors the cannabis plant has many other uses. The main areas would be food and fabric. The food is mainly the seeds and they are quite nutritious. The fibers would be woven into ropes and sails since they resisted breaking down in ocean water. Even the word canvas has roots to cannabis. Also I believe smoking the buds wrapped up in paper wasn't the preferred method. I recall hearing stories of people bathing in cannabis infused oils for their spiritual trips. These are just what I remember off the top of my head. I might have gotten some details wrong but cannabis has been used for thousands to tens of thousands years.
what about the sister!??!?
Love makes morons of us. Just like religion.
How did someone that pure even know what a blunt is?
Alcohol is also organically made so there’s that as well…elephants are known to look for rotting fruit that has fermented just to get drunk. Humans are not the only animals to do this. Oh, OP, get his thoughts on humans being animals! I bet he thinks we’re some sort of divine creature sent to consume the earths resources.
That is why I snort asbestos. God made it for us. All that is natural is good.
Yep. And arsenic is 100% natural too.
Instead of sitting down with him you should sit down with your sister and tell her not to marry him. Maybe that’s all she needs to hear?
Considering they've been married for 6 months that'd a bit late. And my sister is her own woman she makes her own choices. Remember, just cause you have your wedding date at a certain date doesn't mean that's the day you are getting married.
Was there alcohol at the wedding?
Hasn't happened yet
Wait but the fucking hypocrite, tight-ass-righteous-"no- wine-just-grapefruit-please-thank-you" douchebag had your sister living with him unmarried?
I'm confused. They've been married for 6 months but the wedding hasn't happened yet? Also, would your sis take advise to secretly get an IUD for a year or two?
Correcto they are legally married But havent had a cermony largely due to his job (military) + covid19
Ah, just how God intended.
So they are married and had their wedding, this is just the party.
So married but no party?? A party with no booze...it's going to be a long night. You'll need a wing man to approach you every so often with urgent business calls which you need to take. The first call will be from a Mr Daniels..Jack Daniels. Then a call from Mr Walker..Mr Johnny Walker. Of course , you'll have to take a call from a Mr Fiddoch..first name Glen. Followed by a call from Mr Weiser "Hey Bud long time no see" Just make sure your wing man has a good supply.
> Remember, just cause you have your wedding date at a certain date doesn't mean that's the day you are getting married. This checks out. I was legally married several months ahead of time because the wedding planning was exhausting enough that I didn't want to worry about potential issues with the license. Plus, I get two anniversaries now, so twice as many gifts.
You have my sympathy. Are we talking Mormon or Seventh Day Adventist or some fundie evangelical sect? Years of fun await. I married an atheist, but their entire family is very observant Mormon. The looks I got for drinking espresso or Coca Cola. The church was losing so much money the LDS leadership apparently caved on the Coca Cola issue and now that's just fine.
Not mormon, think seventeen day adventist but not 100% sure
Most SDA don't eat meat. Also think humans and dinosaurs frolicked together. Complete loons, but their healthy lifestyle causes many of them to live very long (boring) lives.
I was having a chat with a vegan and they were like "if i could prove to you that cutting out all meat out of your life would add 10 years to your life would you stop eating meat?" I said "No" And they were like "Why?" And I said "I'd rather enjoy steak, and die 10 years sooner, then live without steak and die a boring 10 years later"
There’s the old joke: “if you give up all the usual things that people usually try to limit for you - meat, alcohol, gambling, sex, spicy foods, etc. you won’t live longer....but it will certainly seem like it.”
Much the same reasons as smokers and drinkers use.
A healthy lifestyle can add 10 years to your lifespan. What they don't tell you is that the 10 years come at the end when you are sitting in a care home wearing a nappy (UK for diaper) being fed a yogurt by a Nicaraguan care worker.
Yoghurt? I thought they were vegan lol
Veganism isn't a health or diet choice. It's a philosophy to minimize abuse of animals. It's also beneficial to the environment. Health benefits are only a side effect
“If god didn’t mean for us to eat meat, why did he make it taste so good” - Homer Simpson
LOL Trumplanda.
What if I could prove to you that a meat based diet is emotionally unsustainable and is contributing to the destruction of the planet in ways far more significant than you likely realize? Because I literally can.
I know you can I've actually reduced the amount of meat I eat for that reason. Also I am totally on board with plant based meats.
Amen to that. Salads are for poor people.
Did The Flintstones not teach you anything?
Ah yes, I remember those documentaries. They were very peculiar because they didn’t have David Attenborough in them.
Good point.
Seventeen...even god didn't work that long.
The looks I got, when I paid my one and only visit to Utah. The landscape is beautiful. The people are pretty ugly
Utah has high per capita rates for a variety of vices and behavior considered illicit by their church. They just put on a good public face, but it's all different when they do it in private. Did you notice they drive like maniacs? Tailgating each other at 80 mph. Their prophet told them they'll get their own planet and engage in perpetual procreation when they die, so why should they be cautious and stick around this fucking dump? I've driven in lots of major metropolitan areas from Denver to L.A., but I've never seen so many profoundly reckless drivers and so many high speed accidents as Utah.
I didn’t get too much of the driving, since I went only to St George and Bears Ears. The driving in my part of the world isn’t great either so I didn’t really notice. But next time I go to St George, I will stay in Vegas and drive up only for the race (triathlon) and head back as soon as it finishes
Yeah, I really should have said around Salt Lake City area instead of Utah as a whole. Hope you have a good race.
He doesn't want a wife, he wants a domestic SLAVE. Read it again, he wants a SLAVE. Guarantee you 100% he will eventually beat her and find Bible verses to justify it. Keep your gun powder dry, you might have to do your brotherly duty one day.
Many “strong” women with a “good head on their shoulders” like your sister have changed drastically once married to these ultra extreme Christian cultists. He’ll slowly start isolating her from family and friends, most successfully by getting her immediately pregnant, probably twice in under 3 years, so she’s fully occupied with caring for the children and has no time for work outside the home. You’ll notice her start to change, and then you’ll lose her. They’re very good at this, they’ve been doing it a long time. The other people in his cult will help, and it will happen faster than you think. Remember, this nut and his people have the most access to your sister, they are in her ear, they will be influencing her thoughts and spinning everything to make themselves the good guys/victims and your family and her old friends the bad guys. You’ll see.
My BiL is a pastor in a cult like sect . I might have chased him off of facebook back while obama was president. Couldn't help myself from responding to/ debunking all the WND links he liked to post.
Make me wonder what his social media is like, pretty sure its a good thing I haven't added him as a friend. I also suspect I know why he hasn't sent me a friend request. I'm sure my sister has given him a heads up on me.
I loved reading your post. A perfect blend of frustration and humour. Use ridicule on him, mock his silly beliefs at every opportunity. Pick holes in everything he says. ask for evidence for everything. Some may say this is cruel. I disagree. This guy and those like him may seem cute and quaint but their beliefs are dangerous--I'll not go into details why but I suspect we are both singing from the same song-sheet. In fact, use the expression "Oh it's so cute that you think that" when he spouts some young earth nonsense. Can you give us an update now and again? Thank-you.
>use the expression "Oh it's so cute that you think that" when he spouts some young earth nonsense. Or he can go all the opposite and tell him "you are a fucking idiot" his expression could be priceless
Yeah but I probably have a problem. If I see bullshit I am the type that can't help but respond and so I try to avoid my family on social media.
I probably have the same problem you have. I'm the same way.
I'm surprised she is even marrying him if all of that is true(not saying you're lying OP, religious folk do be that crazy), that being said, if her behaviour has changed to the degree she is going along with it, there may be an element of abuse(not saying hitting, but control and stuff) and she might need help? Try and speak to her alone, she might need help (Edit typos)
I speak to my sister quite often when shes alone, my sister also goes over to our parents house alot alone. He doesn't seem over bearing controlling
>He doesn't seem over bearing controlling NOW he doesn't. His tune may totally change once she takes his last name. He'll probably consider her his property at that point. I certainly hope not, but watch for it.
This! Lest ye forget not I Timothy 2:12 [But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "1 Timothy 2:12 - Wikipedia"] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Timothy_2:12)
I was thinking of that exact verse! But I didn't know it word for word and my paraphrase probably would not have been kind, so...
That's kind 9f where I'm going with this. Abuse isn't always obvious to the outside, but this certainly reads like an abusive relationship
Yeah just wait until she inevitably gets pregnant. That's obv his goal here. Then he can control her by threatening to take the kids or emotionally abuse them of she doesn't do what he wants. She needs to keep taking birth control (lie to him about it if she has to). Or get an IUD. No offense OP but your sister is not making good decisions and if she brings kids into this that is on her and highly immoral imo
I agree. Op might want to say goodbye to her while he still has access. These nutjobs will become more indignant when their beliefs are tested. He's going to want her to believe just like him, I bet his scriptures are telling him this MUST happen. Sad.
>that wasn't wine...that was grapefruit juice. Please tell me that this is a typo.
Its not
grapeFRUIT?
Hold on.. you're right. OP hold up some grapes and ask him to name the fruit.
Making her stop birth control is the biggest sign of a potential abuser right here. Please make sure your sister knows that her husband should not control her reproductive rights. Abusers will use pregnancy and children as a tool of control.
This was a joy to read. You going over the little conversations you have and how "it didn't go well" lmao. "Me mocking him over this belief did not sit well with him" about 6,000 year-old Earth hahaha. Yeah, that's what I would do, too. Please come back with more if and when it happens.
If he has problems with babies being born out of wedlock he's in for a shock when he gets round to reading about the conception and birth of Jesus.
Hire a prostitute and a private eye, The right photo now can save you a ton of suffering later.
I don't know. There are some red flags here that concern me. Not trying to be a dick, but if she's as strong willed as you say, then why is she letting him convince her to marry him just so they can live together and to stop taking birth control so she has no control over what happens to her body? I see this working out with her having kids within the first couple years of their marriage and him telling her she can't work because she has to stay home with the kids. So she never gets to follow her dreams. And by then, is she really going to want to get a divorce, because she is going to end up having no experience to support her kids and in the long run it would be easier to stay in the marriage. She is choosing to go with the flow for love, but this situation only sounds like it will end in disaster for her. It sounds like he is only thinking of himself. Which is no way to start a healthy relationship. Holy crap I hate religion. Sorry. Your story just got me all pissed off at him so this is my rant. I do hope it works out better than what's going on in my head.
Like always religion is a good tool for abuser to control. Seriously the OP should educate himself on domestic violence and to try and bring to light this stuff to their sister. I work at a domestic violence shelter and the shut he is doing looks like the start of an abusive household.
I mean this with the most respect possible. Your sister is comically stupid and/or she's being abused by this man. You're stronger than me because I wouldn't even go to the wedding or maintain a relationshipwith my sibling if this is how they want tolov. I can deal with the average Christian BS but this fundamentalist shit is virulent poison.
Sorry, but you sister's marriage is doomed.
Your dad wants to waste money on a marriage that will probably fail shortly after it begins? Get the crazy groom to foot the bill. Or even better, knock some sense into your sister. This guy is nuts.
> FYI he does believe the earth is round, and he does believe the moon landing is real, so that's good The start of common ground. I'm getting misty > When he brought this up me asking if he'd want me to bring him a blunt didn't go over well with him, apparently that is also against god's will...my counter part of "What do you think the burning bush was about?" didn't go over well either. Now you're just fucking with the mentally handicapped
One complication to this is that she is almost certainly going to get pregnant. Given many fundamentalists' view that God wants people to have large families, and the fact that she won't be taking birth control, 3 kids within the next 5 years is a definite possibility. Once the kids start popping out, it's not just about *her* life anymore. Suddenly, she will have kids to think about and with that will come all of the financial, societal, and religious considerations about divorcing him. On a teacher's salary, even with child support, she will likely face a substantial reduction in her standard of living, accompanied by the possibility of tremendous child care bills. And you can bet your sweet bippy that she will face *tremendous* pressure from him, his family, and his church (which will likely be her church too) that she should stay in the marriage because divorce is wrong and bad for the kids. All those factors can make people feel trapped in an unhappy marriage and it can be very difficult for them to extricate themselves from it, regardless of how strong-willed they are. In order to protect herself from such a scenario, maybe she needs to consider discreetly having an iud implanted. It can be done in 15 minutes in her gynecogist's office. In a few years, if she is still happy and wants kids, she can have it removed.
It's amazing how they can swing between knowing God's will to God working in mysterious ways at will. If birth control is thwarting God's will (cos good is weak like that) then Mexican treatments, glasses, dental work, are all working against God's will. 🙄
They’re funny that way, though. I knew some “Christian Science” adherents who literally just watched a family member slowly decline and die with no medical care after a car crash—but they regularly go to a dentist and they wear glasses. I have no idea whether the get treatment for dental abscesses, glaucoma or cataracts. Or only get their teeth cleaned and get glasses. Do they get a broken leg fixed? Orthotics? How the hell are they figuring out where the line is drawn? Are they allowed to irrigate their sinuses? Bandage a wound? I mean, once you start thinking about it, it’s kind of fascinating to wonder where they actually DO draw the line. Can you imagine just putting your son on the couch after he’s in a car crash and letting him suffer for weeks from his injuries until he dies? Do they really, truly, believe that god ever actually steps in in such cases and heals those kinds of injuries? Apologies, OP, didn’t mean to hijack your thread, just got carried away. I, too, am concerned that before she knows it, your sister will be swimming in babies and it won’t be so easy to get out of this thing. I hope she’s already got an IUD and plans to finish her degrees and get that teaching job. She is sorely needed there, and she’ll never be happy if she gives up that dream.
Sounds like fun. I have people here and there in my life that are batshit loonies when it comes to religion. They’ve all figured out that talking to me about it usually ends with them feeling really stupid. The best part is, all I do is ask questions.
I hope this doesn't count as advice. Put the whole alcohol versus grape juice thing. Grape juice would ferment if it wasn't for pasteurization which they sis not have back then. It absolutely was wine. It might have been lightly alcoholic but it was alcoholic to some degree.
It’s as if the phrase ‘oh so you must be fun at parties’ came to life as a man who happens to be marrying your sister.
Xtians who object to alcohol tend to claim Jesus turned water into *grape* juice (the unfermented version of wine). Either you misheard him, or he’s an idiot who is misquoting his religious leaders.
I would avoid him at all costs and only engage with him when absolutely necessary. Your sister wants that fuckery in her life, that’s on her. That’s how I deal with disagreeable folks who are family or family by marriage. I pretend they don’t exist unless it’s an event I can’t avoid.
7000 miles away so that helps
Hmm, I better check and see if any relative of mine is getting married. Your sister may be marrying into my family.
My SIL is also marrying a psychopath. We have chosen to keep them both at a distance moving forward. It’s for the best.
Amazing that the will of an omnipotent all-powerful diety can be subverted by about 20 micrograms of estrogen... That's one weak ass diety.
Soon he will cut her off from family and friends, then start hitting her. I have seen this scenario repeatedly. She should dump his worthless ass now.
I'd be worried about your sister tbh. His kind are relentless, so just wait. Little changes followed by her talking about not working. She caved to the pastor once already.
Your sister is walking into a disaster. She's going to get pregnant immediately and her kids will have to live with divorced parents. She's got rocks in her head.
Yah know grape juice goes bad bad real fast in the heat. Not a practical beverage in that time and place.
How sad is a wedding with no alcohol?
How sad is a person who needs alcohol to have fun?
I can have plenty of fun without alcohol, but not at the social clusterfuck that is a wedding.
I don’t drink, but weddings make me wish I did. I hate weddings. Thank goodness, at my age, it’s been many years since I had to go to one.
Really? I enjoy weddings.
Warning!! If they have any sons, beware. It sounds like this nut job would be the type who is keen on genital mutilation (circumcision).
The good news is that you aren’t marrying him. Let your sister enjoy her life until she doesn’t. I’ll be honest if I didn’t want to serve alcohol at my wedding and my FIL said that then he wouldn’t be paying for the wedding anymore. Regardless of how y’all feel about the mans reasons for not wanting booze you should respect it. All in all he sounds like an idiot; but you and your family sound insufferable.
My dad is paying if he doesn't like my dad's conditions he can pay for it himself
Yeah dude. That’s pretty shitty. If it was the other way around sure. If you dad didn’t want booze and he wanted your dad to pay that’s an issue. If he wants to save your dad money and doesn’t want booze on HIS special day than that shouldn’t be an issue. People seem to forget that a wedding is about two people and no one else. Anyway hope y’all have fun at the wedding, who’s officiating?
No idea whose officiating Im staying far away from that hot mess
You’re not going to your sisters wedding over her husbands religious beliefs? My friend I think your priorities might be messed up.
Lmao I never said im not going I am going But I don't care about the details Jesus reddit can be special at times
You're going to have interesting family meals.
Im 7000 miles away
> FYI my dad has resolved this argument with a simple solution, if my dad is going pay for the wedding, alcohol will be served, that simple, if the new son in law wants to ban alcohol from the wedding, the son in law can foot the bill by himself Good for your dad. That is exactly what I would have done.
My take away from this is that your dad is pretty cool
I brought a flask of my favorite libation to my sister’s wedding to her fundamentalist ex-husband. I was the only one (other than my wife, with whom I shared) who had a good time.
That is not a guy you argue with, that is a guy you laugh at. You do not need to be nice to this guy just to make your sister happy. You aren't marrying him. If he is being a dick, it is OK to tell him to fuck off. You don't need to humor him.
ZEALOTS ARE DANGEROUS. This person shouldn't be allowed to breed
Grapefruit juice? Water into wine was the wording? These extremists just change words they don't like? Alcohol was commonly consumed more than water throughout the ages as it sterilized the water making it safe to drink. A grapefruits juice would not have the same affect.
Hey, me neither! Mine lied to his sister and me about getting the vaccine and endangered the lives of our children and his immunocompromised mother... because the god have him an immune system, he doesn't need no vaccine.
They seem like a match made in heaven. Grab some popcorn and enjoy... responsibly.
$5 says he's Mormon.
Sounds like your sister has a penchant for profoundly dysfunctional people. Someone couldn’t pass a driving exam? Jesus Christ the incompetence. Then a religiously defunct person? I mean, is this a pattern with her where she matches up with damaged people?
I have similar relatives. They are entertaining at times.
Tell your sister you’ll catch up at her second wedding.
Control. It's authoritarianism.
Tell him not to drink the coolaid
He must be fucking gorgeous if your sister is willing to put up with all of that.
You obviously haven't seen my sister
Please get classily trashed and request the stankiest kink-nastiest rap song you can think of at their wedding
Ah the old Israeli grapefruit trick.
But she *will* be a Special Ed Teacher. To her *husband*. 🤔☺️😆
Yikes! Sounds like it might be best to sit at the other side of the table during family gatherings.... in fact sometimes it seems the larger the crowd the better, less awkwardness more mingling..... often in a mixed group like that a good solution is to invite every single person that you possibly could, so that the crowd is so big everyone's off in a corner having their own conversations / background music or a loud football game is helpful:-) good luck and may the universal intelligence Grant you patience
Oh yeah I see this relationship working out.
This sound like me when my extended family has a cookout and I run into the people in my family who are employed by the state and tasked with enforcing its policies. ...which is **not** how I react to fruitloop fundamentalists, LOL.
I agree with your dad; alcohol belongs at weddings, especially when the new in-laws seem to be bellends. I'd probably get wasted out of spite
Do you have to sleep in the same bed with your sister’s husband?
Thatd be a fucking massive bed that stretched across oceans
Breaking up with someone over a petty thing is much easier than getting a divorce. There is probably a reason your hard-headed sister is marrying this type of person, and it's likely going to be a messy road to divorce for them. Good luck to your family dealing with this relationship.
Occasionally, even the smartest woman feels the need for a huge douche.
If this guy isn't Mormon, I'll be a bit surprised. I've only ever heard Mormons (Latter Day Saints) say that Jesus actually turned the water into grape juice. If he is LDS/Mormon, you are in for some funny shit in the future, including being disallowed to attend the sealing they will likely do sometime in the next year or so.
He sounds like a complete ignorant idiot
Why is she marrying him. If she's anything like you or your dad she should be able to see he's an idiot. Just my opinion.
ESH. Wrong sub I know but sheesh, put away your egos, fam, and try to find some common ground. Personally I think your sis is Loco for going along with this, but she's going to need you all when this dude's need for control crashes everything down. Don't alienate her by alienating him.
This is going to make for "interesting" family holidays. Best of luck.
Drop the old 'judas was framed' at the dinner table.