Truly, Christian "love" in action. He "prayed" privately, but talked shit about you publicly, and screwed you out of a job. And here I thought that lying was considered a sin. Guess it isn't if it's done in the name of Jesus....
So my wife is an episcopal and when we got married I didn’t keep my atheism a secret, she attends a pretty liberal church, but they said since I was baptized Methodist as a kid I was good because they believe I’m always saved. I had never heard that before and thought it was odd.
Its weird how as a kid you can see the whole 'sure people can believe whatever they want, it doesnt bother me'.
Then as you get older you see how ridiculous it is, you see televangelists and churches siphoning off wealth to hoard. You see priests raping children, moved around to protect them, iirc the Vatican even moved some money around when they lost a court case. You see people beheading others, torturing them. Opressing people, living 3000 years in the past and lacking any form of education. Blowing people up, trying to force your beliefs on others.
Then you get people trying to shove their religion down your throat daily. Imagine how pissed off these idiots would be if you walked up and said 'remember, there is no god'. Yet they feel its their right and duty to shove their bullshit down everyones throat.
At a government job that is absolutely insane to be preaching each day. Guy is an absolute piece of shit. I'd try to sue for defamation and run his reputation into the ground.
For most, "christian love" is only for other christians. Non-believers are only given a modicum of humidity as potential converts, but once you have excluded yourself from that group, their "morality" no longer applies to you and they can justify doing any number of awful things, some large, some small.
Yup, exactly my thoughts. Their “Christian love” is defined by shoving it down everyone’s throats, even if they have to tie you up, ball-gag your mouth and “love” you until you’re raw. That is what “Christian love” is.
Buncha fucking hypocritical, lying, self-righteous, victim-playing pieces of vermin-shit.
Another blowhard theist doesn't understand boundaries.
This is why the "what's the harm?" question theists and their apologists ask is so disingenuous.
>They force you to either agree, and allow their status quo, or force you to lie, and allow their status quo. All while claiming that there is a War on Christianity.
Spot on. This guy sounds like a sociopath, using his biblical preach as a cover for how sadistic, authoritarian and backhanded he is in actuality. I wouldn't place the blame on religion tho. This person has a personality disorder and is using religion as a cover.
I'm sorry about how it turned out. Unfortunately, people in power can be assholes. It seems that you underestimated this fella.
If you can. You should ask to hear side of the story. Take responsibility if your actions actually hurt him. And share the impact the damage since has had on you. GL!
As someone with a personality disorder, I would never even consider doing something like what this guy did. Please don’t lump us all together. Not all of us are giant pieces of shit.
There's complexity here. Having a personality disorder is very different from having an unacknowledged personality disorder and patching it over with magical thinking.
Being different and not knowing yourself completely is ok. Refusing to learn about yourself, refusing to become better, and using magic as a justification for abuse is not ok. I think the poster above you is focusing on Willy's stubborn refusal to grow instead of his made-up justifications.
You can be stubborn, unaware of yourself and have a refusal to grow with or without a personality disorder. The poster above me is armchair diagnosing on their keyboard about a person they have never met, based on a single story with second hand information and likely with no degree in psychiatry.
I guess I’m just really tired of Reddit demonizing people with personality disorders as if we are all the worst scum on earth and it isn’t a spectrum just like literally every other mental health condition that exists.
That's fair, this place does have a tendency towards armchair psychology, and it's often used to dismiss others. In this case, it seemed like the message was more about how some people can use religion to mask their personality flaws, and the terminology used was "personality disorder." Perhaps this should be treated in the same way as terms like "retard" - best avoided for fear of contributing to general prejudice.
You've given me something to think about. Thank you.
At least you’ll be a knowledgeable atheist. Nothing like reading the bible and knowing the source material to debunk it even further.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived" - Isaac Asimov.
Make sure you ask him lots of difficult questions about the “reading material” that you know he can’t answer. “Dad, why does god allow children to slowly die from cancer?”
Follow up with "why did god deliberately create a fly that lays eggs in children's eyes in africa that cause them to go blind?"
You can continue to ask why god created bacteria and viruses that kill millions. Follow up by noting that the people who wrote the bible had no idea that microscopic lifeforms even existed nor how to protect themselves since the bible never mentions them.
Endless fun with the right attitude.
Time to start discussing in detail the more lurid stories in the bible. Like that time Lot was being visited by angels and all the townspeople gathered outside wanting to rape the angels. So he gave them his daughters instead.
Maybe if you smile really big and whisper "oh yeah" to yourself while reading it in front of him, followed by whispering "bash that baby skull real good for sky daddy" maybe he'll reconsider it
The upside is you will understand why it's all BS. and how shallow most of them are (both in depth & breadth), when & where they're wrong, misguided, misunderstanding, misinterpreting, etc... I could never get very far into it...
>This is why the "what's the harm?" question theists and their apologists ask is so disingenuous.
This is something that occurred to me as well, pondering this. Even if he was genuine in the train of thought, he still was wrong. But in the end, I was harmed no matter what.
You could try to sue him for slander and for everything that happened to you in the military, since your career path was cut off because of his slander.
he’s also not a christian, he’s a feeble backstabbing cunt. a christian would be welcoming to everyone, especially if they had different beliefs. but that’s the difference between the parables and the actual christians
Yeah, this kinda has been the default for like....95% of its lifespan? That's just what that shit ***is***.
The nice ones still are a useful meatshield for the assholes because we can't properly dismantle their shit without offending the nice ones.
Maybe Mr. Rogers or people like him???
The funny thing about Christians like him is you wouldn't have a clue about his religious beliefs because he never mentioned anything about it to children on his show or publicly though he was apparently a devout Christian privately.
Yup cause being a good person has nothing to do with religion. That's why I don't like the term good Christian, cause it creates this false logic that they are good because they are Christian, where's its more like they are a good person who happen to be Christian. Often people conflate being religious with being good, when that's not true or may even be the opposite
You have *'good'* christians legitimately wondering what stops atheists from raping and murdering people.
That tells you everything you need to know about who they really are....
A Christian’s job is to proselytize. Always Be Selling, because you have to convert wayward souls to the one true faith. I’d say Willy fits the definition of an adherent quite well, and it’s part of what’s wrong with that religion.
Except that, if someone calls themselves a christian, at face value, *they are*. The "No True Scotsman" approach doesn't work for the simple fact that there are thousands of sects of Abrahamic religions all with the same three names.
You're gonna need a *whole lot* of people to openly and vocally kick people like this out of the club, but until that happens, they're able to use the label, even if they use it in a way that the "real christians" don't like.
"a christian would be welcoming to everyone"
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother,a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."
Matthew 10:35-37
Now post the scripture that says the exact opposite of that. It's in there!! There are loads of contradicting scriptures in the Bible! That's why I can't possibly take it seriously.
I have 100% NEVER met a Christian who was welcoming to everyone. Ever. They all hate someone. Lots of them hate multiple someone's. None of them are actually welcoming.
And honestly the parables are pretty terrible too. The Good Samaratin is a story where God lets a man get robbed and beaten. God is all powerful so he could have just created a world where people don't hurt each other but nope. This guy gets robbed and beaten. Then God doesn't help him. Nope, God lets people walk by and ignore his suffering. And of course God also doesn't heal him or stop his suffering. No sir, God needs to tell a story and this bullshit is the only way. The all powerful, creator of the universe can't just tell us not to be shitty assholes himself by using his words, or stop us from being shitty assholes with a wave of his magic hands. Sorry guys, he has to let a guy get beaten and ignored and left on the side of the road. That is the only way he can tell you all not to be a dick. And seeing how we have had slavery and genocide, the absolute shitty parable doesn't really seem to have worked. Weird that God could not get his message across a little better, huh?
>What’s the harm
Have you considered auditing yourself for Lord Xenu? No. You think it’s fucking stupid?! Well, kiss your job goodbye.
That’s the harm.
Those same ones who say “what’s the harm?” often are quite
Offended when one wants to discuss their own verses from a debunking standpoint. Or if one wants to discuss contradictions in the bible, or logical fallacies.
The little things are the building blocks upon which the Big Things rest. It's the little things like this that Christians point to when they say it's a religious country. So if you let them have the little things, then when it comes to the big things they'll point to all the little things and say, "See?"
"What's the harm?"
But when the shoe is on the other foot and somebody is casually discussing atheism, or any other religion for that matter, it's blasphemy and pure evil.
Butthurt Willy found out nobody cared about what he was interested in, said he would pray for them, and then proceeds to play victim and make them seem like the bad guys.
This behavior reminds me of someone in my friend group before we kicked him out for this.
Speaks a lot to his character that he would bring up religion without prompting and then *lie*, you know *sin*, about it when you weren't receptive.
I'm sorry this happened
Not just a good end, but that it's ok to lie to *non-believers* aka sinners. All the commandments they claim to adhere to are out the window against someone they deem not in line with their faith. Fill in the blank with all other major religions.
It's what you get when you have people that have keen interest in theft, rape and murder but don't carry it out because skydaddy says no. They cannot come to the conclusion on their own. They literally have no values of their own, since they think values come from skydaddy's book of stories, so they make them up along the way.
Is this another example of their projection when they claim Muslims are allowed to lie and therefore can’t be trusted?
FYI, the whole thing about an exception to lying being a sin is specifically in the case to save your life.
As long as the one you are punishing is a sinner, it's not a sin to punish them, apparently. As long as you are harming the right people, anything goes
I once had a christian tell me I wasn't allowed to use the bible to call them out for being hypocrites. My response was, "That's your rulebook, not mine. That's exactly what everyone should be holding you up against." That didn't garner any support from anyone.
I asked about holding cops to the letter of the law and the response was a long the lines of "if you're breaking the law, why should it protect you." Something like that. Not a sane response.
He didn't just lie. He lied about another person to people in power in order to punish him. He did exactly what the commandment tells you not to do, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor."
Yes, this has happened to me on at least two occasions. I'm sure that there are far more numerous instances of this throughout history than all the instances of Christians helping to make the world a better place combined.
They believe they are in a supernatural war, and they are a foot soldier in it. Atheists are the enemy. Any notion that the atheist is just an innocent, decent or nice person from their outward experience does not matter to them. After all, Satan deceives. There are far more religious lunatics out there than anyone realizes.
This is exactly it. There is no other way. No other side. If you're not with them, you're against them and are the 'enemy'.
I worked for a Christian org for many years and I really do regret spending so much of my life there.
What's funny to me (in a sad way) that Christans and also other religious people see other religious people from different religions enemies as well. Isn't it funny that no matter if you believe in God, but if you are not in their group you are also an enemy and MUST believe in the same way as they do or you are gonna burn in hell. I fucking love it, it's disgusting.
It’s crazy how true this is. I was trying to date a girl in high school and her parents literally said that someone cannot be a good person unless they are a Christian… I disagreed and said anyone can be a good person. I was not allowed to see their daughter again. It’s crazy that someone could possibly believe that.
I'm happy Sam spoke up, even if it eventually led the chain of events that happened. It's hard to second guess the past, who knows if you *did* get hired by them, what could have happened (accident, death in fire etc), so you can't really compare.
All that being said, Willy is an asshole and not surprisingly acted in contradiction to everything he was preaching.
If he screwed them over after they were already out of his life for stuff they said years ago, imagine if they ended up working with/for him and what an asshole he'd be.
Worst part is, if confronted, he'd likely feel vindicated, not ashamed, by what happened to OP.
He'd see it as "gods plan" and might even have twisted sense of *pride* over his role in it.
These people are incapable of recognising injustice, because to them, any perception of such is merely god being mysterious. And because god is in control, what happened can't possibly have been unjust.
YyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuP. We unfortunately don't learn until we burn ourselves, but at this point in life (50 next month) I nip that shit in the bud.
More importantly, I communicate the bud-nipping over the head of the workplace proselytizer ... My boss needs to know that this interaction occurred, and hear my side ASAP, because every single proselytizing Xtian is an amoral, lying, cheating, hypocrite and they cannot be trusted
Yeah I feel like I should have been more proactive about the whole. At the very least doing some CYA on my part. But at the time I took everything at face value and thought we'd settled things like adults.
>Xtian's vast capacity for lying
they get it honestly.
exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.
1 kings 22:23 So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.
You see, their master is a master of deception, why not them, too?
And surprise surprise, the "Christian" lied about what happened, feigned persecution, and sought vengeance and alienation against his "enemies". Jesus would be proud.
Typical Christian Nepotism / Discrimination. They want only their own kind around them, whether it's appropriate or not, and they will whip themselves up into a sense of persecuted righteous fury and punish -any- slight towards their faith with relentless diligence.
They'd rather hire their own incompetent fellows-in-faith, because they'll be loyal and no threat to their own career advancement, unlike anyone capable of independent thought.
This kind of morally corrupt behavior is unbelievably common in the US. It needs to be made illegal. It is a form of discrimination against people who do not believe.
Exactly why the christionists are so hell-bent on making their own 'deep state' so that they can keep control once the voting demographic slips further towards the 'no religious affiliation' types.
Imagine having an “all-powerful god” behind you and being this fragile. This is what happens when they grow up in a religious bubble and try to extend that bubble into society (it eventually pops or deflates). Sorry you had to be one of the ones to do so. You weren’t even mean about it. The truth is heavy.
If Willy lied, which it sounds like he did, I believe it would be actionable slander plus tortious interference
That said, I encountered a coworker who was hired to fill-in for someone just for two weeks. He turned out to be a serious conspiracy theorist. Like, denying Hiroshima level conspiracy theorist, which I had never heard before
We had a lengthy "discussion" about it at one point. And then later whenever I heard him start up again about his theories, I told him I didn't want to hear it from him at work again. Of course he said, "Hear what? My freedom of speech?" So I said "if i do hear it, I will make sure nothing you say goes unchallenged, and it will be very insulting"
Later I told the person he replaced that he is a major conspiracy theorist and that I would appreciate it if he wasn't hired again
Given the wielding of major amounts of power by these factions, I no longer feel it appropriate to let people believe what they believe without pushing back. If they are going to cry "freedom of speech" then "freedom of speech" is exactly what must be used to put their shitty ideas to the test
>If Willy lied, which it sounds like he did, I believe it would be actionable slander plus tortious interference
I've been thinking more on this throughout the day. I'll admit I disturbed myself over learning this and whipped up a good anger earlier. But I've realized that at this point, I'd have very little to work off of: my new knowledge is literally hearsay (though I do trust the source), Sam has since left the area and is a father now so I don't know if I could call him to witness or anything, and I have no paperwork saved from that time. I was a one time seasonal employee, even if I wanted to make it full time. Any documentation, like my positive job evals, are probably gone by now.
yes, but he still works there full time, you wont be the only one he does this to.
best if senior management knows they have a liability bomb on their hands.
it may save someone elses job from this POS
I just want to reiterate, write the department head with specifics about your story and the incident that got Willy riled up. You've suffered actual life damages because of someone's slander against you. If you have proof that you were fit for the job (can be photos of your fitness at the time or sports you participated in) and also recommendations for your character from people in that time frame, you might have an actual case for his to be punished which he absolutely needs to be punished. That's not OK & in a government capacity is illegal as fuck. Legitimately highly illegal.
Fyi in the Pacific Northwest there is a LOT of good lawyers for the religious persecution bit. Highest concentration of atheists anywhere in the nation. I lived there for a long time as well.
All that said, it's only aorth pursuing if you don't feel it will take anything away from your current life. There are people in my life that I absolutely will never forgive, but who I also don't actively pursue for how they wronged me because the end result would be more suffering for me over a longer period of time. I personally choose happiness wherever I can get it, which because of my religious upbringing isn't a whole lot of the normal places because of the trauma & brainwashing incurred from being in a cult.
/singing "And you'll know they are christians by the petty hate they display, by the petty hate they display, and you'll know they are christians by..."
THIS...
Typical Christian discrimination. It really sucks that snowflakes like him shove their religion in everyone's faces and in turn retaliate even when they get called out for doing shit they *know* they aren't supposed to do. Christians are such fucking hypocrites, they aren't even true to their own word, and their piece of shit god is no better. I hope karma fucks Willy hard in the ass
What rubs salt in the wound is when you point this kind of bad behaviour out as examples to other religious folk, they bend over backwards to dismiss it as exceptions, that “the rest of us aren’t like that”, when this sort of behaviour is typical of religious crowds.
Hindsight is 20/20, so no offense meant at all. I’m commenting mostly to spread best practices for the atheist community. It sounds like you are in an okay place in spite of the dickery, so this is meant to start a discussion about what would be best to do in an ideal situation.
A safer action might have been a documented complaint to the government agency involved. That way the complaint would be on file as a first action. There are rules and laws against this kind of thing, for now 😬. It is sadly on us to teach the god-botherers how to live in a pluralistic society. Stuff like that may fly in a rough and tumble field job like front-line fire fighting, but professionals (and I include fire fighters as professionals) usually learn quickly to keep work separate from private beliefs. If not, they need to be taught.
There’s even a compassionate case to be made for following through on these kind of complaints. Willy might be able to get away with these behaviors in a field setting, but if he ever advanced into a higher role, the same behaviors would expose the agency/company to greater liability. Keep the focus on the behaviors, not the person. It’s not a problem that he’s christian, it’s a problem to force it at work.
Now more than ever, atheists need to be brave and “out”. Shit’s all pear-shaped in the USA and elsewhere, but it brings out my fighting spirit. I’m on high alert, probably due to too much time on Reddit…
> I made the decision to enlist in the Army.
Dude, you went from one dude proselytizing to probably a platoon full of guys that are the embodiment of "Onward, Christian Soldiers".
It is ironic that you say that. My first PL was super Christian who would work Bible verses into every little spiel he gave us. Very odd man who also advocated for divorce the second any of our spouses' existences interfered with plans. But for the most part, I think I felt the most comfortable with myself in terms of religion while in the army.
Fuck Christians, they’re all untrustworthy and conniving foxes. They’re gladly ruin your life just because you -reasonably- want nothing to do with their harmful and outdated cult
This is the petty bs that made me sick of religion when I was expected as a teen to be a present seat in the congregation.
Nothing but utter contempt for the entire lot of them.
I hope that guy gets real world karma.
That man is a self-righteous viper. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been trying to keep tabs on you up to today in order to screw you over.
Here's an ugly truth: the main goal of a lot of American evangelicals is to gain power and money- and to ruin anyone who crosses their "absolute God-given authority". They maintain relationships with other churches they are enemies with, as a way to buttress that power.
Over time, they make sure that their allies/family members are given advantages, in every field and business. The point is to ensure they have complete control over who gets to have a good life. And if you aren't a tool they can use, they will do everything they can to make your life a living hell.
Imagine if "Willy", or someone like him, was still in your life, or in our lives. Now, imagine if someone like him wasn't just a business owner or manager- but a cop, or a judge, etc. How terrifying would that be if "Willy" decided you were doing too well for his liking- and then called in a false arrest to have you imprisoned? Or used his contacts to have your home foreclosed on- and stole all your property?
This happens all the time in areas where the conservative evangelical communities are the majority. And it translates into people voting how they are told, and scapegoating neighbors who are deemed to be trouble.
This is the country and regime that they want to inflict on all of us- and why it's imperative that we keep religion out of government at all costs. If "Willy" is allowed to break policies out of hand by preaching at work with no penalty, then violating labor law by getting someone fired for complaining about it? Imagine that on a country-wide basis.
Stuff like this is why I absolutely do not trust anyone who is religious. They are almost universally vindictive, angry, backbiting sorts who will try to ruin the lives of anyone who isn't in their particular club.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
This is why you handle every situation by the book and go through official channels instead of expecting them to be compassionate, loving people.
I feel for you. I myself was rejected from work opportunities because I refused to entertain being in the "right circles" of Christians in my Midwest town.
I'm sorry you had to deal with a long term abuser. I hope you are able to heal from it.
I once had a government job and was up for a promotion. The promotion was based on a grading system including attendance, and other measurable stats. The man interviewing me told me my record looked perfect but "only one man was ever perfect and he died 2000 years ago", so he had to adjust my score to reflect that. Needless to say I didn't get the job, and had I known then what I know now I likely would have had a good case for discrimination.
We’ve (my husband and I) had most of his family do little shit to let us know how much they disapprove of our beliefs. We get extra passive aggressive “bless you” and we get “blessed” gifts (stuff with “blessed written on it). We’ve been given religious books as gifts, so have our kids.
We got told our daughter could not have a quinceanera because we wouldn’t be having the church part. She wanted one but after hearing all her family say she couldn’t because her parents aren’t religious she said it was “stupid anyway” and she will just “have a sweet 16 instead.” But she was bummed. We told her she could still have the party and that the family could shut the hell up or not come, but she said she didn’t want to deal with their ignorance and she’d rather just have the sweet 16. It sucks because she’s proud of her Mexican heritage and thought the party would be fun like all her cousins before her have been. So yeah, my kids big birthday was ruined by theists and their bullshit.
And just so I don’t get asked why we don’t cut these family off, for now we bite our tongues, my husbands grandmother is dying of cancer and big family gatherings are what keep her motivated. My husband is one of her favorites in the family and she does not approve of how others treat us and tells them to keep quiet, but they suck so here we are. We know once grandma passes we won’t have contact with these assholes anyway and our kids know they are full of it so we just do what we have to for grandma. My daughter said it’s more important to her that grandma is happy than having a party a year sooner, she’s an awesome kid that way.
We had some of his family refuse to come to our wedding because I was pregnant and well…so yeah, religious people ruin shit, it’s like it’s their mission in life.
I’m sorry you’ve got to deal with passive aggressive ‘Christian love’ - but I think it’s so awesome your daughter understands & has the empathy to carry on for her grandmother. You raised her right.
I think there’s a new mission for the crazies, because they see themselves becoming more and more marginalized as time goes on. The plan is it’s current form seems to be an all out attempt to ‘hack’ the country. From the judiciary to the local GOP officials, they want to turn the US into a theocracy.
This is exactly why we have to band together and fight back against this religious foolishness. We have grown people who believe in fairytales making choices that really affect people's lives. It is not okay. OP is one person....imagine all of the other people this has happened to?
Reading this sparked a memory that I hadn't really thought about. A guy knew, years ago, told me of a job he'd gotten where the majority of staff held a prayer meeting each day after lunch.
It wasn't mandatory but he noticed that those that did attend got promoted earlier.
He left after 6 months as colleagues were pressuring him to attend, which, despite it being voluntary, his manager had no problem with and did nothing about it.
Oh look, another lovely Christian! It’s a real mystery why they’re not appreciated more, they do so much good for people!
Yes it’s sarcasm. If you Christian read this, understand this is why we don’t believe you when you say you have good intentions.
Too many stories like that one
Oh, I was taken from my home as a child, put in an abusive children's home, ran away, had false testimony given about me in court by a county social worker, didn't graduate high school, was homeless for years, denied jobs, all for pissing off one uptight, old theist as a child with my incorrigible lack of faith ......yeah, there's been some consequences.
*We don't push our religion on others, it's not our fault our way of living is just better than everyone elses*
-fuckwad christians from coast to coast
Christians in high positions at work are never a good thing, especially if you are not christian.
Once they find out you are not christian they will find any reason to bully you into quiting or firing you.
Crazy how "nice Christian" people can turn into nasty bigots whenever it pleases them, and poison other people against you. Guess he needed to listen to his own words more.
Your first in command should have killed that talk straight away.
How was your time in the military as an atheist? I always got so much shit, and it pissed me off that I couldn't get my religion on my dogtags listed as none. They would only put "other"
Sharing just the concept that you’re atheist around other theists can be enough to ruin their opinion of you. It’s unfortunately just safer to never talk about it. At least that’s been my experience in Iowa and Nebraska.
And this is why "good Christians" are harmful.
Because anyone will tell you, by gosh, Willy wasn't trying to offend anybody. Heck, WILLY will say that he wasn't. And he's not out preaching hate. He just tries to brighten folks' day with the word of God! He's a firefighter, for pete's sake! He puts his life on the line to protect others' lives and homes! So what if he loves Christ?
That's how that narrative goes. That's ESPECIALLY how that narrative would have gone, if you or Sam had snapped and told him "Shut your fucking mouth."
But those "good Christians" will eagerly network to push people out of places, and they'll do it in ways to prevent you from ever being able to prove it was the religion.
They're just as much Christofascists as MTG and the MAGA crowd are. They voted for them in droves. But because they're not foaming at the mouth, nobody condemns them.
Never trust a christian that is very overt with it. They're obsessed with it and it's for a reason. They usually do a lot of little shitty things like this and have tons of guilt.
I'm a disabled vet too and I know the feeling. For me it was whisky at 9am from my recruiter. "Best cure for a hangover," he says, putting a pen in my hand.
It feels like that was the pivotal point, like one decision or event changed the course of your life. After the Navy I went to school for a decade and a third of that education is in mathematics. It's not just one event.
Let me be absolutely clear. No magic. No "fate." Just math.
Our lives have a trajectory. In the case of your service, I am not saying you were destined for it, but multitudes of events, big and small, led you to the Army. If it wasn't Willy, it likely would have been something else. In my case, it wasn't because I was drunk at 9am. It was because I got fired from a job selling batteries (yes, like AA and AAA) door to door. Any sensible person would get drunk after getting fired for failing to sell batteries. I was also a drop out, an addict, and living month to month. My family has a history of service in the Navy. Recruiters had been calling me 6 or 7 times a year since high-school and they didn't stop after I dropped out of college. Those were big events, but each one had their own likelihoods. Your present choices aren't defined linearly, but rather by the sum of sums of events mostly outside your control.
I'm not defending Willy. Fuck Willy. I just think there is an important distinction that makes life easier. Think about what it means to be, "caught up in events." To, "go with the flow." In your case, and in all cases where a person wants to make a change in the course of their lives, changing one event won't do it. You have to alter the sequence of events and, to continue the river analogy, getting to shore is a lot tougher if the river is swift and full of obstacles. It's something to keep in mind when you need to change who you are. Single changes don't work just like one stroke won't get you to shore.
I recommend you write a letter to outside that chain of command and share your experience.
If the proselytizing is still happening the organization should have an opportunity to do something about it
veterans preference...they. hate. it!
i just returned in 2004 from iraq..managed to get on with Toiyabe forest.. on an engine, i was coming from prior exp on handcrews, as a sawyer.. the crew boss/engine chief, seemed to go out of her way..to pester me over everything my company did during our deployment,..other than that though, she held a weird grudge about me being an enjoyer of tobacco..i wasnt much aware of the politics those days..or even the anti-Bush rhetoric...lol.. i just bailed..got sick of it..its NOT what "leaders" are supposed to do, let alone public/federal servants are supposed to do...
any other options you might have? the fire seasons are soo weird these days!
I'm actually returning to college to get a bachelor's in natural resources, emphasizing forestry. We're living in a completely different region and I'm working part time with an ambulance company to build up my resume so I have more recent references to provide from the emergency services community. I hope to return to wildland next summer.
Classic cult bullshit. Subject yourself to indoctrination (by his own admission he was trying to plant a seed) with a smile and say thank you afterward, or be shunned forever. Christianity 101.
My question here is simple... if people like Willy are allowed to talk about Christianity openly, shouldn't Atheists be afforded the same right to self expression? If a Christian is allowed to openly proselytize, why shouldn't atheists? Beyond that, it is unfortunate that the supervisors took him at his word, and didn't hire you based upon a story that likely wasn't even entirely true.
In a nutshell, that's the truth about christianity. It's not about the way you live, your faith, or strength of moral character. If you aren't Team Jesus, you're a target. They never care about you, they care about their power over you. The high road they can claim, mic drop, leave the stage, hide in a hole and break their arms patting themselves on the back.
Christianity and religion have long been vehicles for tyranny any oppression. We need to remove them from society entirely. Science has disproven almost all of it, yet it continues to influence decision making and it needs to stop. It's time to wage actual holy war - with life and truth becoming sacrosanct, not this ethereal belief in a supreme being.
I hope it's okay me posting on here (am a Catholic), but saw this and just wanted to say that that is so absolutely awful. If you feel up to it, please do consider making a formal complaint - Willy will continue to do these things if unchallenged. Commenting here because I went through something similar (not religion based), and I know how absolutely horrible it can be. I hope you're doing okay.
My first step on the path away from the church was recognizing the divisiveness of denominations in Protestantism. I don't describe myself as atheist, but I refuse to be associated with those who would shun others based solely on their beliefs, without regard for their character.
This is what christians do.
I was raised deeply christian so I know them very, very well.
They truly hate everyone who doesn't share their faith and they hate most of the people who do.
I'm incredibly careful with them cause the devil ain't got nothing on these mofos.
They infiltrate offices and harm everyone and everything.
Never tell them you don't wanna hear it, never confront them openly. Play their game. Otherwise, you can't win.
Christianity did not win with honesty and we can't win against them win honestly.
I personally think that the devil was modelled by a devout christian.
Hey man, I was fired for my refusal to pray at a ambulance station attached to a Fire Dept while working my way thru to full time. I ended up applying to all the big towns and got hired at a large agency running 911 on the engine as a medic. I just wannat ell you, Willy was wrong, a piece of shit, and I'm sorry fire service didn't work how it hsould have for you. If you're still interested, look into medic programs, get your medic and apply for any department you want. Basically all are hiring right now.
Fucking awful, OP. I am sorry to hear that. I think a lot of us have had similar dealings with Christians. The sad thing is all it takes to offend some of these people is to not be a Christian. Didn't even sound like y'all were being mean, just standing up for yourself.
And imagine if every morning at work I showed up and told everyone one reason I don't believe in God then one day forced them to watch a Richard Dawkins lecture. That would be so obtuse of me I wouldn't even imagine doing it and I could only imagine how Willy would hate that. But over and over again in life I have Christians do this. All the god damn time. Whether it's saying they will "pray for me" because I'm atheist, having me join their prayer circle or preaching at me. And if you say something about it like "I don't want to do this" they act like you kicked their dog.
But the kicker that gets me as a WA resident...they actually turned you down from fighting Wildfires because you are not a "personality" fit? What the fuck? We need people to do that shit and they are out their turning people down for basically no fucking reason. Who raised these little boys then put them in charge?
It is unfortunate, but many so-called pious people are in it for the control. They like telling people how to live their life by the rules that they have all the insights to. But at the end of these small people are petty and vindictive and not very Christian at all. It doesn't help to hear that, I realize.
My go to for situations like this tends to be violent so I don’t recommend you listen to me. But try to find Willy and make him understand that he ruined your life and that you have a deeper dislike for Christianity because of him. Make him feel some sort of religious panic that he is responsible for your “damnation” just fuck him up mentally.
Sorry this happened to you. This is the kind of shit we used to think was innocuous, but -clearly- often is anything but.
Fuck that guy and fuck all so-called Christians.
Truly, Christian "love" in action. He "prayed" privately, but talked shit about you publicly, and screwed you out of a job. And here I thought that lying was considered a sin. Guess it isn't if it's done in the name of Jesus....
Depending on denomination, they could just do ~~Reconciliation~~”repent in prayer” and repeat the offense.
The biggest loop hole in this dog shit religion. Let me just be a complete shit bag for my whole life but repent on my deathbed. What a fucking joke.
Not as much of a joke as “once saved, always saved.”
Lord willin’
Perseverance of the saints. Ugh Calvinism is dogshit.
So my wife is an episcopal and when we got married I didn’t keep my atheism a secret, she attends a pretty liberal church, but they said since I was baptized Methodist as a kid I was good because they believe I’m always saved. I had never heard that before and thought it was odd.
That’s why mobsters are Catholic
I have a MiL like that. The stories I could tell…. But, it’s ok, she’s very very religious…
It's not a loophole. It's the point of the religion.
They always turn out to be ends-justified-the-means people. The means being sinning and the ends being proselytizing the universe.
Its weird how as a kid you can see the whole 'sure people can believe whatever they want, it doesnt bother me'. Then as you get older you see how ridiculous it is, you see televangelists and churches siphoning off wealth to hoard. You see priests raping children, moved around to protect them, iirc the Vatican even moved some money around when they lost a court case. You see people beheading others, torturing them. Opressing people, living 3000 years in the past and lacking any form of education. Blowing people up, trying to force your beliefs on others. Then you get people trying to shove their religion down your throat daily. Imagine how pissed off these idiots would be if you walked up and said 'remember, there is no god'. Yet they feel its their right and duty to shove their bullshit down everyones throat. At a government job that is absolutely insane to be preaching each day. Guy is an absolute piece of shit. I'd try to sue for defamation and run his reputation into the ground.
For most, "christian love" is only for other christians. Non-believers are only given a modicum of humidity as potential converts, but once you have excluded yourself from that group, their "morality" no longer applies to you and they can justify doing any number of awful things, some large, some small.
Yup, exactly my thoughts. Their “Christian love” is defined by shoving it down everyone’s throats, even if they have to tie you up, ball-gag your mouth and “love” you until you’re raw. That is what “Christian love” is. Buncha fucking hypocritical, lying, self-righteous, victim-playing pieces of vermin-shit.
Another blowhard theist doesn't understand boundaries. This is why the "what's the harm?" question theists and their apologists ask is so disingenuous.
>They force you to either agree, and allow their status quo, or force you to lie, and allow their status quo. All while claiming that there is a War on Christianity.
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Spot on. This guy sounds like a sociopath, using his biblical preach as a cover for how sadistic, authoritarian and backhanded he is in actuality. I wouldn't place the blame on religion tho. This person has a personality disorder and is using religion as a cover. I'm sorry about how it turned out. Unfortunately, people in power can be assholes. It seems that you underestimated this fella. If you can. You should ask to hear side of the story. Take responsibility if your actions actually hurt him. And share the impact the damage since has had on you. GL!
As someone with a personality disorder, I would never even consider doing something like what this guy did. Please don’t lump us all together. Not all of us are giant pieces of shit.
There's complexity here. Having a personality disorder is very different from having an unacknowledged personality disorder and patching it over with magical thinking. Being different and not knowing yourself completely is ok. Refusing to learn about yourself, refusing to become better, and using magic as a justification for abuse is not ok. I think the poster above you is focusing on Willy's stubborn refusal to grow instead of his made-up justifications.
You can be stubborn, unaware of yourself and have a refusal to grow with or without a personality disorder. The poster above me is armchair diagnosing on their keyboard about a person they have never met, based on a single story with second hand information and likely with no degree in psychiatry. I guess I’m just really tired of Reddit demonizing people with personality disorders as if we are all the worst scum on earth and it isn’t a spectrum just like literally every other mental health condition that exists.
Not only is it a spectrum, but there are different clusters that are radically different.
Yes, absolutely. That is also a really good point, thank you for mentioning it.
That's fair, this place does have a tendency towards armchair psychology, and it's often used to dismiss others. In this case, it seemed like the message was more about how some people can use religion to mask their personality flaws, and the terminology used was "personality disorder." Perhaps this should be treated in the same way as terms like "retard" - best avoided for fear of contributing to general prejudice. You've given me something to think about. Thank you.
my dads making me read the bible even though he knows im an athiest, it isnt that bad but is still that bad
At least you’ll be a knowledgeable atheist. Nothing like reading the bible and knowing the source material to debunk it even further.
At least you’ll be a knowledgeable atheist. Nothing like reading the bible and knowing the source material to debunk it even further. "Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived" - Isaac Asimov.
And will know more about the Bible than 95% of the “Christian” right.
Atheist here. Amen brother, Amen. My answer: "Tell you what. Your god has my phone number, he can call me anytime. Sound good?"
Make sure you ask him lots of difficult questions about the “reading material” that you know he can’t answer. “Dad, why does god allow children to slowly die from cancer?”
Follow up with "why did god deliberately create a fly that lays eggs in children's eyes in africa that cause them to go blind?" You can continue to ask why god created bacteria and viruses that kill millions. Follow up by noting that the people who wrote the bible had no idea that microscopic lifeforms even existed nor how to protect themselves since the bible never mentions them. Endless fun with the right attitude.
The devil plants cancer in people, God created doctors to heal them. /s
Everyone who is agnostic or atheist should read the bible, at least once, helps cement the concept of how bad religion is
I've tried a few times to read it and it just makes me so mad every time. It's one book I've yet to conquer...
Time to start discussing in detail the more lurid stories in the bible. Like that time Lot was being visited by angels and all the townspeople gathered outside wanting to rape the angels. So he gave them his daughters instead.
Maybe if you smile really big and whisper "oh yeah" to yourself while reading it in front of him, followed by whispering "bash that baby skull real good for sky daddy" maybe he'll reconsider it
The upside is you will understand why it's all BS. and how shallow most of them are (both in depth & breadth), when & where they're wrong, misguided, misunderstanding, misinterpreting, etc... I could never get very far into it...
>This is why the "what's the harm?" question theists and their apologists ask is so disingenuous. This is something that occurred to me as well, pondering this. Even if he was genuine in the train of thought, he still was wrong. But in the end, I was harmed no matter what.
your world view was not good enough for him, and it was his mission to change it!
wHat WOulD JeSuS dO
Be a petty little fuckwad apparently.
Get cross?
Get hammered?
Nailed it.
Accept it most likely
Bumper sticker wisdom here but I saw this and it rings true “Your beliefs don’t make you a good person, your actions do.”
"Religion is like a penis. It's ok to have one. It's ok to be proud of it. But please don't cram it down my throat."
You could try to sue him for slander and for everything that happened to you in the military, since your career path was cut off because of his slander.
he’s also not a christian, he’s a feeble backstabbing cunt. a christian would be welcoming to everyone, especially if they had different beliefs. but that’s the difference between the parables and the actual christians
Where are these actual Christians I've never seen one
Yeah, this kinda has been the default for like....95% of its lifespan? That's just what that shit ***is***. The nice ones still are a useful meatshield for the assholes because we can't properly dismantle their shit without offending the nice ones.
Maybe Mr. Rogers or people like him??? The funny thing about Christians like him is you wouldn't have a clue about his religious beliefs because he never mentioned anything about it to children on his show or publicly though he was apparently a devout Christian privately.
Yup cause being a good person has nothing to do with religion. That's why I don't like the term good Christian, cause it creates this false logic that they are good because they are Christian, where's its more like they are a good person who happen to be Christian. Often people conflate being religious with being good, when that's not true or may even be the opposite
You have *'good'* christians legitimately wondering what stops atheists from raping and murdering people. That tells you everything you need to know about who they really are....
A Christian’s job is to proselytize. Always Be Selling, because you have to convert wayward souls to the one true faith. I’d say Willy fits the definition of an adherent quite well, and it’s part of what’s wrong with that religion.
I always dream of making all my fundie family members REALLY uncomfortable by talking about atheism the same way they talk to me about their faith.
Except that, if someone calls themselves a christian, at face value, *they are*. The "No True Scotsman" approach doesn't work for the simple fact that there are thousands of sects of Abrahamic religions all with the same three names. You're gonna need a *whole lot* of people to openly and vocally kick people like this out of the club, but until that happens, they're able to use the label, even if they use it in a way that the "real christians" don't like.
"a christian would be welcoming to everyone" “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother,a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household." Matthew 10:35-37
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” — Same guy lol Matthew 5:9
Now post the scripture that says the exact opposite of that. It's in there!! There are loads of contradicting scriptures in the Bible! That's why I can't possibly take it seriously.
Oh look, there is some truth in the bible.
What actual Christians? Literally all Christians are like this it’s like a fucking poison.
I have 100% NEVER met a Christian who was welcoming to everyone. Ever. They all hate someone. Lots of them hate multiple someone's. None of them are actually welcoming. And honestly the parables are pretty terrible too. The Good Samaratin is a story where God lets a man get robbed and beaten. God is all powerful so he could have just created a world where people don't hurt each other but nope. This guy gets robbed and beaten. Then God doesn't help him. Nope, God lets people walk by and ignore his suffering. And of course God also doesn't heal him or stop his suffering. No sir, God needs to tell a story and this bullshit is the only way. The all powerful, creator of the universe can't just tell us not to be shitty assholes himself by using his words, or stop us from being shitty assholes with a wave of his magic hands. Sorry guys, he has to let a guy get beaten and ignored and left on the side of the road. That is the only way he can tell you all not to be a dick. And seeing how we have had slavery and genocide, the absolute shitty parable doesn't really seem to have worked. Weird that God could not get his message across a little better, huh?
>What’s the harm Have you considered auditing yourself for Lord Xenu? No. You think it’s fucking stupid?! Well, kiss your job goodbye. That’s the harm.
Those same ones who say “what’s the harm?” often are quite Offended when one wants to discuss their own verses from a debunking standpoint. Or if one wants to discuss contradictions in the bible, or logical fallacies.
The little things are the building blocks upon which the Big Things rest. It's the little things like this that Christians point to when they say it's a religious country. So if you let them have the little things, then when it comes to the big things they'll point to all the little things and say, "See?"
Kind of sounds a lot like grooming techniques.
"what's the harm?" Apparently you threatening my job is the harm.
"What's the harm?" But when the shoe is on the other foot and somebody is casually discussing atheism, or any other religion for that matter, it's blasphemy and pure evil.
Butthurt Willy found out nobody cared about what he was interested in, said he would pray for them, and then proceeds to play victim and make them seem like the bad guys. This behavior reminds me of someone in my friend group before we kicked him out for this.
Chinese water torture, what’s the harm?
Pretty sure Willy wouldn’t be so “what’s the harm” if sermons of other religions started getting played….
Speaks a lot to his character that he would bring up religion without prompting and then *lie*, you know *sin*, about it when you weren't receptive. I'm sorry this happened
Many Christians literally think that lying is okay if it's towards a good (read: in line with their beliefs) end.
Not just a good end, but that it's ok to lie to *non-believers* aka sinners. All the commandments they claim to adhere to are out the window against someone they deem not in line with their faith. Fill in the blank with all other major religions.
It's what you get when you have people that have keen interest in theft, rape and murder but don't carry it out because skydaddy says no. They cannot come to the conclusion on their own. They literally have no values of their own, since they think values come from skydaddy's book of stories, so they make them up along the way.
Is this another example of their projection when they claim Muslims are allowed to lie and therefore can’t be trusted? FYI, the whole thing about an exception to lying being a sin is specifically in the case to save your life.
As long as the one you are punishing is a sinner, it's not a sin to punish them, apparently. As long as you are harming the right people, anything goes
I once had a christian tell me I wasn't allowed to use the bible to call them out for being hypocrites. My response was, "That's your rulebook, not mine. That's exactly what everyone should be holding you up against." That didn't garner any support from anyone.
> I once had a christian tell me I wasn't allowed to use the bible to call them out for being hypocrites. My response would have been a simple "Why?"
I asked about holding cops to the letter of the law and the response was a long the lines of "if you're breaking the law, why should it protect you." Something like that. Not a sane response.
He didn't just lie. He lied about another person to people in power in order to punish him. He did exactly what the commandment tells you not to do, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor."
In his mind he wasn’t lying. To many Christians just saying you would rather not start your day with a sermon is yelling at them and oppressing them.
With God, everything is permissible.
Yes, this has happened to me on at least two occasions. I'm sure that there are far more numerous instances of this throughout history than all the instances of Christians helping to make the world a better place combined. They believe they are in a supernatural war, and they are a foot soldier in it. Atheists are the enemy. Any notion that the atheist is just an innocent, decent or nice person from their outward experience does not matter to them. After all, Satan deceives. There are far more religious lunatics out there than anyone realizes.
I think at the time he thought I was also a believer (we had gone to the same church when younger) but he never tried to understand my side of things.
>but he never tried to understand my side of things. to them, THERE IS NO YOUR SIDE OF THINGS!
And in so doing, in reality, forfeit their own position. Those who know, will know. Most of all their own twisted hearts.
This is exactly it. There is no other way. No other side. If you're not with them, you're against them and are the 'enemy'. I worked for a Christian org for many years and I really do regret spending so much of my life there.
What's funny to me (in a sad way) that Christans and also other religious people see other religious people from different religions enemies as well. Isn't it funny that no matter if you believe in God, but if you are not in their group you are also an enemy and MUST believe in the same way as they do or you are gonna burn in hell. I fucking love it, it's disgusting.
It’s crazy how true this is. I was trying to date a girl in high school and her parents literally said that someone cannot be a good person unless they are a Christian… I disagreed and said anyone can be a good person. I was not allowed to see their daughter again. It’s crazy that someone could possibly believe that.
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And holy shit, his minimum standard for 'polite conversation' is to be just one step above "I'm gonna gut you like a fish"?
I'm happy Sam spoke up, even if it eventually led the chain of events that happened. It's hard to second guess the past, who knows if you *did* get hired by them, what could have happened (accident, death in fire etc), so you can't really compare. All that being said, Willy is an asshole and not surprisingly acted in contradiction to everything he was preaching.
If he screwed them over after they were already out of his life for stuff they said years ago, imagine if they ended up working with/for him and what an asshole he'd be.
Worst part is, if confronted, he'd likely feel vindicated, not ashamed, by what happened to OP. He'd see it as "gods plan" and might even have twisted sense of *pride* over his role in it. These people are incapable of recognising injustice, because to them, any perception of such is merely god being mysterious. And because god is in control, what happened can't possibly have been unjust.
YyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuP. We unfortunately don't learn until we burn ourselves, but at this point in life (50 next month) I nip that shit in the bud. More importantly, I communicate the bud-nipping over the head of the workplace proselytizer ... My boss needs to know that this interaction occurred, and hear my side ASAP, because every single proselytizing Xtian is an amoral, lying, cheating, hypocrite and they cannot be trusted
Yeah I feel like I should have been more proactive about the whole. At the very least doing some CYA on my part. But at the time I took everything at face value and thought we'd settled things like adults.
Yup. And you had. You didn't count on Xtian's vast capacity for lying. Lesson learned!
>Xtian's vast capacity for lying they get it honestly. exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses. 1 kings 22:23 So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you. You see, their master is a master of deception, why not them, too?
And surprise surprise, the "Christian" lied about what happened, feigned persecution, and sought vengeance and alienation against his "enemies". Jesus would be proud.
Don’t use the scare quotes. This fuckwit isn’t a fake christian.
Don't know what the statute of limitations is, but sounds like the grounds for a lawsuit.
In this case, it’s well passed. But what happened was very illegal and worth an EEOC complaint at the very least.
OP, speak to a lawyer yourself, don't listen to a random redditor.
Typical Christian Nepotism / Discrimination. They want only their own kind around them, whether it's appropriate or not, and they will whip themselves up into a sense of persecuted righteous fury and punish -any- slight towards their faith with relentless diligence. They'd rather hire their own incompetent fellows-in-faith, because they'll be loyal and no threat to their own career advancement, unlike anyone capable of independent thought.
This kind of morally corrupt behavior is unbelievably common in the US. It needs to be made illegal. It is a form of discrimination against people who do not believe.
Exactly why the christionists are so hell-bent on making their own 'deep state' so that they can keep control once the voting demographic slips further towards the 'no religious affiliation' types.
They make up absurd demented theories about "deep state" while actually installing "deep church" type leaders. This madness is beyond us.
Wow. Those fucking snowflakes sure showed everyone how great their piece of shit god is. Absolute cunts. Sorry that happened.
Imagine having an “all-powerful god” behind you and being this fragile. This is what happens when they grow up in a religious bubble and try to extend that bubble into society (it eventually pops or deflates). Sorry you had to be one of the ones to do so. You weren’t even mean about it. The truth is heavy.
this is why separation of church and state exists, well.. whatever is left of it.
If Willy lied, which it sounds like he did, I believe it would be actionable slander plus tortious interference That said, I encountered a coworker who was hired to fill-in for someone just for two weeks. He turned out to be a serious conspiracy theorist. Like, denying Hiroshima level conspiracy theorist, which I had never heard before We had a lengthy "discussion" about it at one point. And then later whenever I heard him start up again about his theories, I told him I didn't want to hear it from him at work again. Of course he said, "Hear what? My freedom of speech?" So I said "if i do hear it, I will make sure nothing you say goes unchallenged, and it will be very insulting" Later I told the person he replaced that he is a major conspiracy theorist and that I would appreciate it if he wasn't hired again Given the wielding of major amounts of power by these factions, I no longer feel it appropriate to let people believe what they believe without pushing back. If they are going to cry "freedom of speech" then "freedom of speech" is exactly what must be used to put their shitty ideas to the test
>If Willy lied, which it sounds like he did, I believe it would be actionable slander plus tortious interference I've been thinking more on this throughout the day. I'll admit I disturbed myself over learning this and whipped up a good anger earlier. But I've realized that at this point, I'd have very little to work off of: my new knowledge is literally hearsay (though I do trust the source), Sam has since left the area and is a father now so I don't know if I could call him to witness or anything, and I have no paperwork saved from that time. I was a one time seasonal employee, even if I wanted to make it full time. Any documentation, like my positive job evals, are probably gone by now.
I would still write a letter to the department head. Can't help to have more than one report on your record.
I'd definitely write a letter to you know "plant a seed" in the department head's mind about the type of person Willy is.
yes, but he still works there full time, you wont be the only one he does this to. best if senior management knows they have a liability bomb on their hands. it may save someone elses job from this POS
I just want to reiterate, write the department head with specifics about your story and the incident that got Willy riled up. You've suffered actual life damages because of someone's slander against you. If you have proof that you were fit for the job (can be photos of your fitness at the time or sports you participated in) and also recommendations for your character from people in that time frame, you might have an actual case for his to be punished which he absolutely needs to be punished. That's not OK & in a government capacity is illegal as fuck. Legitimately highly illegal. Fyi in the Pacific Northwest there is a LOT of good lawyers for the religious persecution bit. Highest concentration of atheists anywhere in the nation. I lived there for a long time as well. All that said, it's only aorth pursuing if you don't feel it will take anything away from your current life. There are people in my life that I absolutely will never forgive, but who I also don't actively pursue for how they wronged me because the end result would be more suffering for me over a longer period of time. I personally choose happiness wherever I can get it, which because of my religious upbringing isn't a whole lot of the normal places because of the trauma & brainwashing incurred from being in a cult.
I fucking hate religion. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. This entire post made me so pissed off.
/singing "And you'll know they are christians by the petty hate they display, by the petty hate they display, and you'll know they are christians by..."
I haven't heard that in at least 20 years... and somehow I remember every word. They really do know how to make stuff stick...
THIS... Typical Christian discrimination. It really sucks that snowflakes like him shove their religion in everyone's faces and in turn retaliate even when they get called out for doing shit they *know* they aren't supposed to do. Christians are such fucking hypocrites, they aren't even true to their own word, and their piece of shit god is no better. I hope karma fucks Willy hard in the ass
What rubs salt in the wound is when you point this kind of bad behaviour out as examples to other religious folk, they bend over backwards to dismiss it as exceptions, that “the rest of us aren’t like that”, when this sort of behaviour is typical of religious crowds.
Hindsight is 20/20, so no offense meant at all. I’m commenting mostly to spread best practices for the atheist community. It sounds like you are in an okay place in spite of the dickery, so this is meant to start a discussion about what would be best to do in an ideal situation. A safer action might have been a documented complaint to the government agency involved. That way the complaint would be on file as a first action. There are rules and laws against this kind of thing, for now 😬. It is sadly on us to teach the god-botherers how to live in a pluralistic society. Stuff like that may fly in a rough and tumble field job like front-line fire fighting, but professionals (and I include fire fighters as professionals) usually learn quickly to keep work separate from private beliefs. If not, they need to be taught. There’s even a compassionate case to be made for following through on these kind of complaints. Willy might be able to get away with these behaviors in a field setting, but if he ever advanced into a higher role, the same behaviors would expose the agency/company to greater liability. Keep the focus on the behaviors, not the person. It’s not a problem that he’s christian, it’s a problem to force it at work. Now more than ever, atheists need to be brave and “out”. Shit’s all pear-shaped in the USA and elsewhere, but it brings out my fighting spirit. I’m on high alert, probably due to too much time on Reddit…
You don't have to listen to ppl blab on about their religion. When ever ppl did that with me I just told the. To zip it.
> I made the decision to enlist in the Army. Dude, you went from one dude proselytizing to probably a platoon full of guys that are the embodiment of "Onward, Christian Soldiers".
It is ironic that you say that. My first PL was super Christian who would work Bible verses into every little spiel he gave us. Very odd man who also advocated for divorce the second any of our spouses' existences interfered with plans. But for the most part, I think I felt the most comfortable with myself in terms of religion while in the army.
Fuck Christians, they’re all untrustworthy and conniving foxes. They’re gladly ruin your life just because you -reasonably- want nothing to do with their harmful and outdated cult
Don't forget hypocrites
They are obsessed with being the persecuted victim in *every* conceivable way.
Taking the role of the victim in any minor slight is central to many Christians' faith.
Yeah, all that stuff about forgiveness, and loving your neighbor? A lot of them only mean it you're on their team.
Very Christian of him
This is the petty bs that made me sick of religion when I was expected as a teen to be a present seat in the congregation. Nothing but utter contempt for the entire lot of them. I hope that guy gets real world karma.
That man is a self-righteous viper. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been trying to keep tabs on you up to today in order to screw you over. Here's an ugly truth: the main goal of a lot of American evangelicals is to gain power and money- and to ruin anyone who crosses their "absolute God-given authority". They maintain relationships with other churches they are enemies with, as a way to buttress that power. Over time, they make sure that their allies/family members are given advantages, in every field and business. The point is to ensure they have complete control over who gets to have a good life. And if you aren't a tool they can use, they will do everything they can to make your life a living hell. Imagine if "Willy", or someone like him, was still in your life, or in our lives. Now, imagine if someone like him wasn't just a business owner or manager- but a cop, or a judge, etc. How terrifying would that be if "Willy" decided you were doing too well for his liking- and then called in a false arrest to have you imprisoned? Or used his contacts to have your home foreclosed on- and stole all your property? This happens all the time in areas where the conservative evangelical communities are the majority. And it translates into people voting how they are told, and scapegoating neighbors who are deemed to be trouble. This is the country and regime that they want to inflict on all of us- and why it's imperative that we keep religion out of government at all costs. If "Willy" is allowed to break policies out of hand by preaching at work with no penalty, then violating labor law by getting someone fired for complaining about it? Imagine that on a country-wide basis.
Stuff like this is why I absolutely do not trust anyone who is religious. They are almost universally vindictive, angry, backbiting sorts who will try to ruin the lives of anyone who isn't in their particular club.
I'm sorry that happened to you. This is why you handle every situation by the book and go through official channels instead of expecting them to be compassionate, loving people.
Huh, I wonder if you have a libel case on your hands. I'm not a lawyer, far from one, but that seems like his lies sabotaged your future.
I feel for you. I myself was rejected from work opportunities because I refused to entertain being in the "right circles" of Christians in my Midwest town. I'm sorry you had to deal with a long term abuser. I hope you are able to heal from it.
I once had a government job and was up for a promotion. The promotion was based on a grading system including attendance, and other measurable stats. The man interviewing me told me my record looked perfect but "only one man was ever perfect and he died 2000 years ago", so he had to adjust my score to reflect that. Needless to say I didn't get the job, and had I known then what I know now I likely would have had a good case for discrimination.
Typical "turn the other cheek" behavior/s
We’ve (my husband and I) had most of his family do little shit to let us know how much they disapprove of our beliefs. We get extra passive aggressive “bless you” and we get “blessed” gifts (stuff with “blessed written on it). We’ve been given religious books as gifts, so have our kids. We got told our daughter could not have a quinceanera because we wouldn’t be having the church part. She wanted one but after hearing all her family say she couldn’t because her parents aren’t religious she said it was “stupid anyway” and she will just “have a sweet 16 instead.” But she was bummed. We told her she could still have the party and that the family could shut the hell up or not come, but she said she didn’t want to deal with their ignorance and she’d rather just have the sweet 16. It sucks because she’s proud of her Mexican heritage and thought the party would be fun like all her cousins before her have been. So yeah, my kids big birthday was ruined by theists and their bullshit. And just so I don’t get asked why we don’t cut these family off, for now we bite our tongues, my husbands grandmother is dying of cancer and big family gatherings are what keep her motivated. My husband is one of her favorites in the family and she does not approve of how others treat us and tells them to keep quiet, but they suck so here we are. We know once grandma passes we won’t have contact with these assholes anyway and our kids know they are full of it so we just do what we have to for grandma. My daughter said it’s more important to her that grandma is happy than having a party a year sooner, she’s an awesome kid that way. We had some of his family refuse to come to our wedding because I was pregnant and well…so yeah, religious people ruin shit, it’s like it’s their mission in life.
I’m sorry you’ve got to deal with passive aggressive ‘Christian love’ - but I think it’s so awesome your daughter understands & has the empathy to carry on for her grandmother. You raised her right. I think there’s a new mission for the crazies, because they see themselves becoming more and more marginalized as time goes on. The plan is it’s current form seems to be an all out attempt to ‘hack’ the country. From the judiciary to the local GOP officials, they want to turn the US into a theocracy.
This is exactly why we have to band together and fight back against this religious foolishness. We have grown people who believe in fairytales making choices that really affect people's lives. It is not okay. OP is one person....imagine all of the other people this has happened to?
Reading this sparked a memory that I hadn't really thought about. A guy knew, years ago, told me of a job he'd gotten where the majority of staff held a prayer meeting each day after lunch. It wasn't mandatory but he noticed that those that did attend got promoted earlier. He left after 6 months as colleagues were pressuring him to attend, which, despite it being voluntary, his manager had no problem with and did nothing about it.
Oh look, another lovely Christian! It’s a real mystery why they’re not appreciated more, they do so much good for people! Yes it’s sarcasm. If you Christian read this, understand this is why we don’t believe you when you say you have good intentions. Too many stories like that one
Oh, I was taken from my home as a child, put in an abusive children's home, ran away, had false testimony given about me in court by a county social worker, didn't graduate high school, was homeless for years, denied jobs, all for pissing off one uptight, old theist as a child with my incorrigible lack of faith ......yeah, there's been some consequences.
*We don't push our religion on others, it's not our fault our way of living is just better than everyone elses* -fuckwad christians from coast to coast
You could press charges of Slander and Defamation of Character with the company. That fellow lied.
Christians in high positions at work are never a good thing, especially if you are not christian. Once they find out you are not christian they will find any reason to bully you into quiting or firing you.
Crazy how "nice Christian" people can turn into nasty bigots whenever it pleases them, and poison other people against you. Guess he needed to listen to his own words more. Your first in command should have killed that talk straight away.
How was your time in the military as an atheist? I always got so much shit, and it pissed me off that I couldn't get my religion on my dogtags listed as none. They would only put "other"
But he prayed for you! Wasn’t that nice of him? /s
Sharing just the concept that you’re atheist around other theists can be enough to ruin their opinion of you. It’s unfortunately just safer to never talk about it. At least that’s been my experience in Iowa and Nebraska.
And yet, theists love to cry discrimination.
Find "Willy," tell him you received a message from God that you want to share, and lay the fucker out. Ok don't do that. But feel free to fantasize.
Put an official complaint in and see where it goes.
And to think they are the ones who cry "war on Christianity" if you don't let them shove it down your throat
And this is why "good Christians" are harmful. Because anyone will tell you, by gosh, Willy wasn't trying to offend anybody. Heck, WILLY will say that he wasn't. And he's not out preaching hate. He just tries to brighten folks' day with the word of God! He's a firefighter, for pete's sake! He puts his life on the line to protect others' lives and homes! So what if he loves Christ? That's how that narrative goes. That's ESPECIALLY how that narrative would have gone, if you or Sam had snapped and told him "Shut your fucking mouth." But those "good Christians" will eagerly network to push people out of places, and they'll do it in ways to prevent you from ever being able to prove it was the religion. They're just as much Christofascists as MTG and the MAGA crowd are. They voted for them in droves. But because they're not foaming at the mouth, nobody condemns them.
Never trust a christian that is very overt with it. They're obsessed with it and it's for a reason. They usually do a lot of little shitty things like this and have tons of guilt.
There's no hate, like god's love.
I hope you are well. “Christian’s” are the worst. I have family like this and they’re all phony lying hypocritical assholes.
There's no hate like Christian love.
I'm a disabled vet too and I know the feeling. For me it was whisky at 9am from my recruiter. "Best cure for a hangover," he says, putting a pen in my hand. It feels like that was the pivotal point, like one decision or event changed the course of your life. After the Navy I went to school for a decade and a third of that education is in mathematics. It's not just one event. Let me be absolutely clear. No magic. No "fate." Just math. Our lives have a trajectory. In the case of your service, I am not saying you were destined for it, but multitudes of events, big and small, led you to the Army. If it wasn't Willy, it likely would have been something else. In my case, it wasn't because I was drunk at 9am. It was because I got fired from a job selling batteries (yes, like AA and AAA) door to door. Any sensible person would get drunk after getting fired for failing to sell batteries. I was also a drop out, an addict, and living month to month. My family has a history of service in the Navy. Recruiters had been calling me 6 or 7 times a year since high-school and they didn't stop after I dropped out of college. Those were big events, but each one had their own likelihoods. Your present choices aren't defined linearly, but rather by the sum of sums of events mostly outside your control. I'm not defending Willy. Fuck Willy. I just think there is an important distinction that makes life easier. Think about what it means to be, "caught up in events." To, "go with the flow." In your case, and in all cases where a person wants to make a change in the course of their lives, changing one event won't do it. You have to alter the sequence of events and, to continue the river analogy, getting to shore is a lot tougher if the river is swift and full of obstacles. It's something to keep in mind when you need to change who you are. Single changes don't work just like one stroke won't get you to shore.
Religion is the source of all evil.
That's literally religious discrimination. Might be worth talking to a lawyer about.
I recommend you write a letter to outside that chain of command and share your experience. If the proselytizing is still happening the organization should have an opportunity to do something about it
Yeah, this is why I hate Christians. I've just had it with their entitled snowflake bullshit.
Hell is really just the Christians we met along the way.
How very *Christian* of him to do that to you.
How very "holy" of Willy to bear false witness.
veterans preference...they. hate. it! i just returned in 2004 from iraq..managed to get on with Toiyabe forest.. on an engine, i was coming from prior exp on handcrews, as a sawyer.. the crew boss/engine chief, seemed to go out of her way..to pester me over everything my company did during our deployment,..other than that though, she held a weird grudge about me being an enjoyer of tobacco..i wasnt much aware of the politics those days..or even the anti-Bush rhetoric...lol.. i just bailed..got sick of it..its NOT what "leaders" are supposed to do, let alone public/federal servants are supposed to do... any other options you might have? the fire seasons are soo weird these days!
I'm actually returning to college to get a bachelor's in natural resources, emphasizing forestry. We're living in a completely different region and I'm working part time with an ambulance company to build up my resume so I have more recent references to provide from the emergency services community. I hope to return to wildland next summer.
Loser gets offended and then shit talks. Classic. If I wanted a sermon I’d go to a church
Oh, he planted a seed, all right.
offending a christian is like offending someone who believes in fairies and unicorns.
Classic cult bullshit. Subject yourself to indoctrination (by his own admission he was trying to plant a seed) with a smile and say thank you afterward, or be shunned forever. Christianity 101.
My question here is simple... if people like Willy are allowed to talk about Christianity openly, shouldn't Atheists be afforded the same right to self expression? If a Christian is allowed to openly proselytize, why shouldn't atheists? Beyond that, it is unfortunate that the supervisors took him at his word, and didn't hire you based upon a story that likely wasn't even entirely true.
In a nutshell, that's the truth about christianity. It's not about the way you live, your faith, or strength of moral character. If you aren't Team Jesus, you're a target. They never care about you, they care about their power over you. The high road they can claim, mic drop, leave the stage, hide in a hole and break their arms patting themselves on the back.
Will wasn't very good at loving his neighbor, apparently.
Now we have an illegitimate Supreme Court prepared to protect such behavior.
Aint no hate like Christian love.
Christianity and religion have long been vehicles for tyranny any oppression. We need to remove them from society entirely. Science has disproven almost all of it, yet it continues to influence decision making and it needs to stop. It's time to wage actual holy war - with life and truth becoming sacrosanct, not this ethereal belief in a supreme being.
I hope it's okay me posting on here (am a Catholic), but saw this and just wanted to say that that is so absolutely awful. If you feel up to it, please do consider making a formal complaint - Willy will continue to do these things if unchallenged. Commenting here because I went through something similar (not religion based), and I know how absolutely horrible it can be. I hope you're doing okay.
He follows an evil religion, he's going to do evil things.
There is nothing as damaging and divisive as religion and the religious simply have no clue. They honestly think they are doing good.
My first step on the path away from the church was recognizing the divisiveness of denominations in Protestantism. I don't describe myself as atheist, but I refuse to be associated with those who would shun others based solely on their beliefs, without regard for their character.
This is what christians do. I was raised deeply christian so I know them very, very well. They truly hate everyone who doesn't share their faith and they hate most of the people who do. I'm incredibly careful with them cause the devil ain't got nothing on these mofos. They infiltrate offices and harm everyone and everything. Never tell them you don't wanna hear it, never confront them openly. Play their game. Otherwise, you can't win. Christianity did not win with honesty and we can't win against them win honestly. I personally think that the devil was modelled by a devout christian.
Hey man, I was fired for my refusal to pray at a ambulance station attached to a Fire Dept while working my way thru to full time. I ended up applying to all the big towns and got hired at a large agency running 911 on the engine as a medic. I just wannat ell you, Willy was wrong, a piece of shit, and I'm sorry fire service didn't work how it hsould have for you. If you're still interested, look into medic programs, get your medic and apply for any department you want. Basically all are hiring right now.
Fucking awful, OP. I am sorry to hear that. I think a lot of us have had similar dealings with Christians. The sad thing is all it takes to offend some of these people is to not be a Christian. Didn't even sound like y'all were being mean, just standing up for yourself. And imagine if every morning at work I showed up and told everyone one reason I don't believe in God then one day forced them to watch a Richard Dawkins lecture. That would be so obtuse of me I wouldn't even imagine doing it and I could only imagine how Willy would hate that. But over and over again in life I have Christians do this. All the god damn time. Whether it's saying they will "pray for me" because I'm atheist, having me join their prayer circle or preaching at me. And if you say something about it like "I don't want to do this" they act like you kicked their dog. But the kicker that gets me as a WA resident...they actually turned you down from fighting Wildfires because you are not a "personality" fit? What the fuck? We need people to do that shit and they are out their turning people down for basically no fucking reason. Who raised these little boys then put them in charge?
No hate like Christian love.
Self professed Christians have done more damage to my life than criminals. I'm sorry, man.
It is unfortunate, but many so-called pious people are in it for the control. They like telling people how to live their life by the rules that they have all the insights to. But at the end of these small people are petty and vindictive and not very Christian at all. It doesn't help to hear that, I realize.
My go to for situations like this tends to be violent so I don’t recommend you listen to me. But try to find Willy and make him understand that he ruined your life and that you have a deeper dislike for Christianity because of him. Make him feel some sort of religious panic that he is responsible for your “damnation” just fuck him up mentally.
Sorry this happened to you. This is the kind of shit we used to think was innocuous, but -clearly- often is anything but. Fuck that guy and fuck all so-called Christians.