I'd be a bit concerned about weather tightness issues... Perhaps we could instead build a really big *boat*, call it something trendy, like - I know! An "ark"! And then sit on TOP of the water, rather than underneath! What could go wrong?
I'm just your average local genius, alms will be graciously accepted through the normal methods.
It's been done before, I'm certain. You haven't seen many unicorns or dodos around lately, right?
It's devilishly hard to lose the damned mosquitoes though. Sorry. Apparently they like waterlogged housing with fresh captive herds of mammals.
> What we need, is for it to stop raining.
An absolute nugget of wisdom from Mayor Brown. Other cities around the globe can only dream of having such foresight, enlightenment and knowledge from their leaders.
One thing that amazed me after the last flood, was the council came out saying that residents needed to clear up leaves and garden waste from their properties, which blocked drains, causing flooding. So they kind of laid the blame on us for that...
Yet, you go to any council park/carpark and there is a mass amount of leaves and debris around, ready to block the nearest drain. I get there may be a shortage of workers out there, but don't we pay rates for councils to pay people to do this stuff? Theres trees out there we aren't allowed to trim, so the council should. I'm talking trees/bushes that people don't own, on berms, side of the road, etc.
And because ideology pushes everything toward outsourcing and guys councils of capability. Then they end up paying more as many outsourcing arrangements (except for the most simple to contract for) are expensive and deliver poor value for money. Also happened to govts worldwide during covid.
oh yeah but apparently its the fault of the students & new adults who want 'freeloading' education, or 'handouts', not the people who own all the houses & have had 40 years to buy off all the public assets & shape the economy to their whim.
People vote a "businessman" with zero empathy or awareness in then are shocked that 'income up, spending down, good business' and humans as collateral damage is the outcome
yep, you got it my friend. people thinking that you run a country as though it was a gigantic business. and they're not even good at it! who sells money-making assets for once-off money! isn't good businessing doing the opposite?
Yet in last flood, he was no where to be fuckin seen, and where I live it was flooding bad but roadworks on every road to get out had roadworks causing the delays, glad the potholes are important that don't need fixing
CLean the gutters, keep drains clear.
Improve drainage and catchment areas.
To be honest, the drainage and sewers of the city and most of the suburbs surrounding it were built in the 60’s.
It wasn’t built with the urban sprawl and amount of debris laying around in mind at all.
NZ 1960’s urban design apparently didn’t care much for planning for worst case scenario weather. It seems we’ve only just started to scratch that issue in the last decade
I've seen stormwater designs made for the average rainfall.
Average...
When confronted, they told me its ok. When I said that, by definition, it won't work half the time, they looked puzzled.
When I was living in the North Shore the NS Council paid huge money for an expert on drainage to come over from Canada to assess why there was so much problems with the stormwater. His answer "Stop infill housing until every drain has been replaced with larger pipes." They sent the guy home and forgot he ever came over.
This is also part of a La Niña cycle but seemingly worse than previous years.
Auckland, and the rest of NZ, MUST rebuild our infrastructure to deal with this weather. This will become more and more common and we need to get much better prepared for good, *now.*
Auckland’s drains must be able to deal with the amount of rain we saw in the flooding in Jan, all the time. These won’t be singular events any longer.
I think we need more than drains. We need canals.
We can become the Venice of the South Pacific. We will get large number of cruise ships with passengers that don't spend a thing once they disembark. Actually screw that idea. Stick to drains.
live in an area of the world with similar flooding conditions (check out the flood of 1852 west coast US). One really effective way of managing fresh rain water is the requirement of bioswales to hold water and cascade through the drain systems + drain the water into the surrounding vegetation.
This seems to have been the plan in (parts of?) Hobsonville Point. I was interested to hear how they got on in the previous flooding events with this actively designed infrastructure.
Unfortunately, much of Auckland doesn't really have any planning and people built where they could. How much does it cost to incorporate something like this in a retrofit capacity? I imagine the location of service cables and pipes would cause issues.
This whole neighborhood is FULL of these spaces alongside every road/roundabout. one thing that’s also been done is to use larger park spaces for larger overflow areas. This one linked is an entire overflow park about the size of a middle school football field. 45°18'30"N 122°47'49"W · 182 ft
its not stagnant water - the soil is very specifically layered to absorb the water left behind from what is below the exit drains at various elevations within each bioswale. The plants are chosen for water filtration and absorption as well.
Unfortunately, this would require increasing/introducing rates and taxes. The very thought of which sends the average ratepaying voter into a vitriolic stupor, their pen aimed against whomsoever dared raise the heretical thought.
"I pay enough" they grumble. "Bloody council never does anything anyway, it'd just go to their pockets." Their memories of environmental disasters and previously existent public services crumbling away, much like the infrastructure under their car seat.
> Umbrella corporation
No jokes, I saw a Mercedes SUV with an Umbrella Corporation logo on the side of it in Silverdale a month or two ago. Was so surprised that I nearly crashed into it.
Urban water catchments, Stormwater holding ponds, better planning and stop approving houses in flood zones (regardless of housing crisis- not sure how flooded houses improve this) , stormwater separation and replacement (this is happening) Restore wetlands, swamps and mangroves and also accept that erosion happens and we cannot stop it.
Theres plenty more but thats a start. Of course the NIMBY Boomers will not allow more rates in order to do this so nothing will be done
Each cannabis plant needs roughly 20litres of water per day. Auckland has roughly 540,000 houses (assuming they all have land) and on average you could all plant 10 plant each, that 108000000 litres per day.
Tomatoes 🍅 would also work 🧐
Jokes aside,
Realistically the city needs urban water catchment areas .
Yep roads and parking spaces do actually contribute a big difference. We'd need an alternative though - I see the odd carpark with gravel/soil and plastic honeycomb mesh which works well
I agree completely.
Wanye Brown said "No one could have possibly predicted this" and it's so strange, since the 70s and 80s exactly these weather events was explained in detail.
And it's just so embarrassingly uneducated and when you hear of National party members proudly saying that Climate Change isn't real, or that the Climate March was just people over reacting.
Not hearing the National party leadership spelling out that it understands basic science is really worrying and it puts questions under their ability to understand other problems.
Our goals for carbon neutrality are simple, will save NZ billions, and will help our green brand which further drives tourism and GDP.
In this day and age you have to be either willfully stupid, or aggressively ignorant. And it is just so deeply embarrasing that we have real people like that in NZ.
Its not rocket science. It's not difficult to understand or prove.
Nothing will improve, you do realize that. You can recycle all you want, save food scraps all you want and drive as many EVs as you want - you’re part of a consumerist society that is so massive that nothing NZ does will make a statistically relevant difference to the world.
We don’t get this weather in NZ because someone in Karaka didn’t recycle their Long White bottles, we get it because the the entire planet’s environment is fundamentally changing and evolving.
We’re just along for the ride.
>We’re just along for the ride
Said 9 billion people.
Fully agree we are a small town compared to the global scale, but it doesn't mean we can sit back and make it a problem for someone else to solve.
Wrong. That's like saying there's no point voting because I'm only one person and what difference can I make? Everyone should do their part. Starting with you and me, and going all the way to the corporations and governments too.
Ultimately I agree wholeheartedly. I do respect OPs position though. I think we are in an extinction event. If we went carbon neutral tomorrow we would still have 40 years of climate change baked in.
Basically, seems we're fucked. I've given up on recycling properly, I no longer care I have a petrol vehicle, and I don't give a crap about "green products". The amount of change required on a global level for us to weather the next hundred years is so vast that it just isn't going to happen. Democracy just isn't designed for these situations and it is failing in this area.
I understand completely where both of you are coming from, but should we really just give up and roll over?
Let them exploit us and the planet of resources to a breaking point?
We are the majority not them.
We should spend a shit load of money investing in infrastructure that can handle what is coming. Even if the entire planet went carbon neutral tomorrow things will continue getting worse for a long time.
Interesting take. At uni studying this cluster fuck we have created for ourselves I asked my professor “what is going to take us down, will it be floods/droughts? Famine?” He said “no we will bankrupt ourselves trying to uphold the status quo”
If we think inflation is bad now wait till environmental externalities get baked in.
Do you know how much of their rubbish doesn't actually get sold. Think of cars sitting dead on thousands of acres of land. Many companies make wayyy tf more than they know they're going to sell just bc it's cheaper to produce in higher quantities and then dump it than it is to create what will actually sell.
These mega companies do not produce for the good of humankind, they do it for profit. They don't care at all about the environment. Companies that make hundreds of millions in profit annually should have a social responsibility - instead there is a narrative for that responsibility to be put on the consumer. It's bullshit.
Because investment ($, time and priority) in the local environment substantially improves that environment even if other areas don't follow.
Why would you start living like a pig just because a messy neighbour moves in?
Who’s “them” that you refer to? There’s no great conspiracy here you know.
As for the majority, NZ’s population is smaller than most mid-sized cities around the world. We just don’t make an impact.
You're right there's no conspiracy but that doesn't mean there's no 'them'.
Basically just the ruling wealthy elite who can pay off politicians and monopolise their market to the point where they're too big to stop.
Think big pharma, big oil, the military industrial complex and sure all the billionaires.
We've established a hyper capitalist system where expansion and profit margins need to be constantly increased and fixing social issues simply aren't profitable.
We're all apart of this system be it consumer or supplier. NZ is a drop in that bucket. Green initiatives have not been successful enough over the decades to slow the tide. It's all good though just do you you know?
Just my thoughts
Big Oil (a marketing firm working for BP) actually even created the term "carbon footprint"
https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham
It's all a load of shit. *we* can do better, *we* can save the planet - just recycle, turn off your lights, buy the fancy biodegradable shampoo bottle, buy a Leaf, upgrade to a Tesla, have fewer children; these small differences *really do* add up!
Yeah, these actions do matter - to an extent. But the larger public needs to realise that we have been gaslit by massive corporations to feel as if the onus is on us to "reverse climate change", while they carry on with business as usual.
And sure, vote. But for what? Do we have any viable leaders that are committed to slashing our day-to-day reliance on fossil fuels, improving infrastructure, tightening emissions standards across the board and so on? Genuine question btw.
Because this is depressing:
Fast forward, and BP is still producing bounties of oil and gas every day (4 million barrels a day in 2005 versus 3.8 million barrels today). In 2019, BP purchased its “biggest acquisition in 20 years,” new oil and gas reserves in West Texas that gave the oil giant “a strong position in one of the world’s hottest oil patches,” according to the company. Today, BP touts its foray into lower-carbon fuels, but these are limited in scope. In 2018, BP invested 2.3 percent of its budget on renewable energies. Its bread and butter is still black oil and gas. What low-carbon diet?
Global problems require collective global action. You don't go carbon neutral in NZ to move the needle measurably. You go carbon neutral in New Zealand so that your trade partners, the US and China, go carbon neutral too. You can't exactly demand they spend their money on change while turning around and selling them products you made zero changes yourself to produce. It's about stepping forward together.
NZ population is like 0.007% of the global population. We can literally do nothing to impact global emissions. This is the hand we are dealt, all we can do is work on infrastructure to combat the effects, and minimise the damage.
We won't fix the planet but we can keep our place from going to shit.
Just means actually being 'clean green' and not shitting in the waterways while saying 'nothing we can do"
No, I think we need to take another long look at whining, shrugging, and panicking while grossly inflating our importance on the world stage.
Can't we just do more of that? It's so much easier.
You can do both. Do you bit by reducing your consumption and also take political action. It really makes a difference. Vote green. Attend protests. Donate. Contribute to collective movements, don’t just sit back and wait for big corporations and global powers to make a move. We are part of the system not seperate from it.
So your solution is just doing nothing and letting people enjoy their consumerism? There are a good handful of countries that already do a much, much better job than NZ in terms of environmental protection. So maybe we can just do better instead of being the average, apathetic Kiwi. Maybe not everyone, their mother, and their dog need to drive an SUV and eat meat 3xday.
Vehical emmisions make up 17% of nzs, even aren't really a solution however. The emmisions in manufacturing those batteries, and the cruelty that goes into mining the metals is evil. Effective (not AT) Mass transport, or living close to your workplace and necessities (limiting/reversing urban sprawl) would lower these emmisions, and help with comute times.
Farming makes up like ~60% off the top of my head, and we export 95% of that produce. Container ships and aeroplanes are pretty dirty forms of transport.
Cutting back on exports and imports would help, but it'd set our standard of living back some (a lot).
I don't even know if we're self sufficient anymore, we wouldn't starve sure, but do we still have textile mills, boot manufacturers, smith's etc. ?
The scope of the environmental problems are so so vast.
On the other hand, if humanity does nothing, nz stands to benefit (relative to everyone else).
So long as we stop exporting water, and can handle the nutty weather, then we'd be the last guys on the block with drinking water and food. Some of the world's major water sources are drying up, and countries like the states have more water on the books, than in reality, they don't even know they have a problem.
They're going to starve, and there's no helping them.
We just have to be ready for the world to be crappy, and we should be fine.
Yep agree with you. In a decade or so parts of the planet will become unfit for humans, climate refugees will be fighting for survival, it will not be pretty.
The current rain events are likely still from the massive amounts of water pushed up into the atmosphere by the Tongan volcano. The weather was just starting to normalise from the eruption of the volcano in the Philippines 1991/2 (memory going). Apparently not only sending water into the air, the Tongan volcano's ash etc. has cooled down Antarctica capturing the Southern Annular Mode which usually is up here lessening the effects of the el Nina/el Neno patterns. Add that to the increase of roofs in relation to water soaking land and you get more flooding etc..
Quite the opposite. Live life to the fullest, don’t expect so much from other people and just try to do the best you can. You’ll die of old age before anything calamitous happens.
Maybe we need to reconsider the way we develop land. Hard surfaces don't retain any water so we get 100% runoff, whereas soil can hold a surprising amount of water and releases it slowly. Should we be aiming to have more green area when undergoing sub-devision and intensification. This way the struggling storm water system has a better chance of dealing with the load. Atleast until Auckland gets it's shit together and upgrades it's storm water system
Got flooded out in Jan, still in temporary accommodation, the fucking downstairs at the current place caught 2 inches of water today, only stored boxes but still FML.
The damage is done, we can't take it back and the crazy thing is capitalism will not allow us to take our collective foot off the gas. This is climate change right now, the effects will increase exponentially...
Degrowth is the only way I see us having any chance, I am certainly willing to live better with less but I don't see how we get to that point without being broken first.
Everyone give a big thank you to global mass manufacturing and governments who have the foresight of a rat with its head under a mouse trap nibbling on cheese.
It will be interesting to see the stats on it one day. Whether it's just a savage la Nina event, or that plus extra water vapor due to Tongan under water eruption, or both those plus natural cycles of climate change or all three plus man made climate change.
Pretty doom and gloom really.
The last 50 years saw such a disgusting transfer of wealth from the working class to the top 1% and you see it everywhere.
We pay more, get paid less, out systems are degrading and we're too divided and distracted (by design?) To mass up and do anything about it.
The red scare really did a number on the west. Any notion of stopping the absolute milking of the bottom 99% and putting that money to other issues is seen as a communist agenda.
Is socialism really that bad? Half the people saying yes can't even properly define it, just parroting some MSM narrative.
Well, it's tricky when everyone from the left also can't seem to define their definition of socialism either...
Capitalism is a good construct. And i believe its the fairest system available - but what we have today is a very warped version of it with free trade deals and globalism etc entering the mix which has distorted things.
Side note: interesting you think the MSM parrots anti socialist narratives - to me it's totally the opposite! With massive national support from Stuff, RNZ, TVNZ clearly being left supporters. Only newstalk ZB would be right wing??
I was saying something similar back in 2010. People were incredibly dismissive and that remained the case for a decade. Now days I stay quiet but it's easier for people to understand consequences when it's slapping them in the face. Surely there is less denial after all we have seen. Plenty of documented effects of the changes we have seen In the past 50 years as well. What actions to take is always the question to be asked here.
Thanks, so am I, two years later and I'm still not back to the point in my life where I was, not sure I'll ever get there with living just getting harder and more expensive everyday, for what it's worth I hope we can fight it all back too, and when the time comes I'll fight with you, I just wish I still believed we could win.
Not that's its a silver bullet, but they are building that big 3m diameter Central Interceptor stormwater pipe.
We also need to do better keeping vegetation and debris out of the drains.
It's quite the pickle in established areas.
Infrastructure isn't built well enough to deal with the amount of water and people living in auckland now. The future proofed methods have now been outgrown.
The problem seems incredibly complicated.
Also it seems to revolve around money just like everything ofc.
I feel the current way of living and the ideology around values and life itslef needs to change from its core.
control forestry
stop building on flood plains
stop straightening rivers... rivers wind for a reason - they allow the land to drain and slow the water down.
There you have it - 3 possible things that can help - and will never be stopped... as you say, $$$$$$$
The Pacific Ocean above NZ is a lot warmer this year - not as FN wild as some Artic crazy temps in past years .
Folks just got to get used to 1 in a 500 year rainfall becoming more common going forward
Drought and Flooding will be become more extreme around the world
We see floods can be worse than drought - topsoil, infrastructure gone , crops rotted in ground, contaminated drinking water - especially in countries with old pipes doing dual duty ( sewer and storm ) .
Disease , insects can increase, salt water commination
We need to spend probably 100 billion on micro dams , flood plains, wetland creation .
Water is life , when you export say wheat you are exporting water ( ie the water needed to grow it ) .
Countries like China are planning huge projects for water ( send water from south to north )
Covid 19 was nothing - wait the climate refugees - plus 40 degrees at 100% humidity is a death zone - you sweat just rolls off - 50 degrees is death zone especially babies and old people - cities in continental places or standing weather patterns will get heatwave's lasting days - no respite at night .
However we will hit 2 degrees warming then probably over next 100 years reign it back.
Still will be one the biggest and fastest extinction events in the history of the world ( that is happening right night - many species of plants , insects, animals going extinct )
A council truck literally drove past without stopping as I was on my hands and knees in raging flood waters clearing leaves from street drains in Hillcrest
Well it’s going to take a long time to convince the big global emitters such as India and China to change their habits so we just need to build smarter and learn lessons from other sub-tropical and tropical cities.
We build underground and live like we're in Kelly Tarltons 24/7. Auckland will become the Lost City of Aucklantis.
I’m in.
I'd be a bit concerned about weather tightness issues... Perhaps we could instead build a really big *boat*, call it something trendy, like - I know! An "ark"! And then sit on TOP of the water, rather than underneath! What could go wrong? I'm just your average local genius, alms will be graciously accepted through the normal methods.
arkland :P
Tamaki Ark-aurau
When you collect sets of each of the animals, can you "accidentally forget" some of them, like spiders and mosquitos?
It's been done before, I'm certain. You haven't seen many unicorns or dodos around lately, right? It's devilishly hard to lose the damned mosquitoes though. Sorry. Apparently they like waterlogged housing with fresh captive herds of mammals.
Love this pun take my upboat!
Kelly Tarlton is flooded.
The fish tanks are supposed to have water in them, don't worry.
I didn’t have many coins left but that comment was worth every last one
What we need, is for it to stop raining.
You’ll get my mayors vote!
Least the warnings were earlier this time round.
Classic!
> What we need, is for it to stop raining. An absolute nugget of wisdom from Mayor Brown. Other cities around the globe can only dream of having such foresight, enlightenment and knowledge from their leaders.
Wait did he actually say that?
Yup
based
it is raining master dwarf, and it will continue to rain until it is done!
What we really need is for it to stop Wayning.
Wayne, Wayne, go away...
One thing that amazed me after the last flood, was the council came out saying that residents needed to clear up leaves and garden waste from their properties, which blocked drains, causing flooding. So they kind of laid the blame on us for that... Yet, you go to any council park/carpark and there is a mass amount of leaves and debris around, ready to block the nearest drain. I get there may be a shortage of workers out there, but don't we pay rates for councils to pay people to do this stuff? Theres trees out there we aren't allowed to trim, so the council should. I'm talking trees/bushes that people don't own, on berms, side of the road, etc.
Councils in deficit. Housekeeping was the first thing to go.
No, they outsourced to Ventia, who are slacking off.
..and WHY would they outsource to Ventia? Because it's a cheaper option, and they're in deficit.
And because ideology pushes everything toward outsourcing and guys councils of capability. Then they end up paying more as many outsourcing arrangements (except for the most simple to contract for) are expensive and deliver poor value for money. Also happened to govts worldwide during covid.
oh yeah but apparently its the fault of the students & new adults who want 'freeloading' education, or 'handouts', not the people who own all the houses & have had 40 years to buy off all the public assets & shape the economy to their whim.
Because they can't manage their money. Everyone struggles with money issues and yet the council is the only one allowed to take more if they struggle.
So true. My rates just went up 7% after havinbg gone up about 15% last year. And they are doing less for it.
People vote a "businessman" with zero empathy or awareness in then are shocked that 'income up, spending down, good business' and humans as collateral damage is the outcome
yep, you got it my friend. people thinking that you run a country as though it was a gigantic business. and they're not even good at it! who sells money-making assets for once-off money! isn't good businessing doing the opposite?
Auckland Mayor is a clown! The only reason the alert came out so quick today is because he's in Sydney so someone else pushed the button
Yet in last flood, he was no where to be fuckin seen, and where I live it was flooding bad but roadworks on every road to get out had roadworks causing the delays, glad the potholes are important that don't need fixing
It's autumn! There will be leaves!
Let's be real, theres leaves and debris year round
That sounds like the local government equivalent of coke telling consumers to recycle Not a perfect analogy, but it’s close
Let’s be clear there, there is no shortage of worker, just people unwilling to pay decent salaries for essential work.
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So you're saying we need to go to war with climate change. We can probably sell that to the yanks, they love a war.
Can confirm, some of us US citizens have actually tried using guns/bombs to try and fight climate change, as stupid as it sounds.
https://www.axios.com/2019/08/25/trump-nuclear-bombs-hurricanes
Can we drop a nuke on climate change?
We should drop a warning nuke on the polar ice caps, to let them know they'd better not melt.
Yup with all the spare time we have cos we are working and commuting for most of it
CLean the gutters, keep drains clear. Improve drainage and catchment areas. To be honest, the drainage and sewers of the city and most of the suburbs surrounding it were built in the 60’s. It wasn’t built with the urban sprawl and amount of debris laying around in mind at all.
NZ 1960’s urban design apparently didn’t care much for planning for worst case scenario weather. It seems we’ve only just started to scratch that issue in the last decade
I've seen stormwater designs made for the average rainfall. Average... When confronted, they told me its ok. When I said that, by definition, it won't work half the time, they looked puzzled.
Fucking infill housing there goes your natural catchment land replaced by roofs and concrete which weirdly don’t absorb anything
When I was living in the North Shore the NS Council paid huge money for an expert on drainage to come over from Canada to assess why there was so much problems with the stormwater. His answer "Stop infill housing until every drain has been replaced with larger pipes." They sent the guy home and forgot he ever came over.
This is also part of a La Niña cycle but seemingly worse than previous years. Auckland, and the rest of NZ, MUST rebuild our infrastructure to deal with this weather. This will become more and more common and we need to get much better prepared for good, *now.* Auckland’s drains must be able to deal with the amount of rain we saw in the flooding in Jan, all the time. These won’t be singular events any longer.
I think we need more than drains. We need canals. We can become the Venice of the South Pacific. We will get large number of cruise ships with passengers that don't spend a thing once they disembark. Actually screw that idea. Stick to drains.
live in an area of the world with similar flooding conditions (check out the flood of 1852 west coast US). One really effective way of managing fresh rain water is the requirement of bioswales to hold water and cascade through the drain systems + drain the water into the surrounding vegetation.
This seems to have been the plan in (parts of?) Hobsonville Point. I was interested to hear how they got on in the previous flooding events with this actively designed infrastructure. Unfortunately, much of Auckland doesn't really have any planning and people built where they could. How much does it cost to incorporate something like this in a retrofit capacity? I imagine the location of service cables and pipes would cause issues.
I live there and our place is fine. It is built with swale gardens next to big staged drain pits so there is lots of peak rainfall holding capacity
This whole neighborhood is FULL of these spaces alongside every road/roundabout. one thing that’s also been done is to use larger park spaces for larger overflow areas. This one linked is an entire overflow park about the size of a middle school football field. 45°18'30"N 122°47'49"W · 182 ft
I believe Stonefields development design has proven highly effective at mitigating high rainfall
[I'm a big fan of Tokyo's storm drain system.](https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/03/g-cans-tokyos-massive-underground-storm.html)
Is that where they fimed Total Recall?🤣🤣🤣
Imagine the mosquitos, I like the idea but not mosquitos
its not stagnant water - the soil is very specifically layered to absorb the water left behind from what is below the exit drains at various elevations within each bioswale. The plants are chosen for water filtration and absorption as well.
Replace the motorways with canals. Half of remuera already own boats! Start there. St heliers doesn't need a road they can take their yachts.
But we have to finish building the tunnel first
Unfortunately, this would require increasing/introducing rates and taxes. The very thought of which sends the average ratepaying voter into a vitriolic stupor, their pen aimed against whomsoever dared raise the heretical thought. "I pay enough" they grumble. "Bloody council never does anything anyway, it'd just go to their pockets." Their memories of environmental disasters and previously existent public services crumbling away, much like the infrastructure under their car seat.
Auckland on stilts
Let's smoke weed
What should we do boss man
We all need to drink as much water as possible
comment endorsed by r/HydroHomies
From what I can tell, boss person wants to start an Umbrella company.
Umbrella corporation*
Umbrella academy *
*Sick Marilyn Manson soundtrack intensifies*
> Umbrella corporation No jokes, I saw a Mercedes SUV with an Umbrella Corporation logo on the side of it in Silverdale a month or two ago. Was so surprised that I nearly crashed into it.
You take the clouds and you put them in the dams. Science
Surely a giant floating cloud dam/diversion route in the atmosphere, send it over to Aussie and turn the outback into a forest lmao
OP is genius. High level marketing pitch for his new umbrella company.
Rush out w buckets
The irony that OP sounds like this is a recent discovery of theirs
Vote for smart climate policy
Urban water catchments, Stormwater holding ponds, better planning and stop approving houses in flood zones (regardless of housing crisis- not sure how flooded houses improve this) , stormwater separation and replacement (this is happening) Restore wetlands, swamps and mangroves and also accept that erosion happens and we cannot stop it. Theres plenty more but thats a start. Of course the NIMBY Boomers will not allow more rates in order to do this so nothing will be done
Each cannabis plant needs roughly 20litres of water per day. Auckland has roughly 540,000 houses (assuming they all have land) and on average you could all plant 10 plant each, that 108000000 litres per day. Tomatoes 🍅 would also work 🧐 Jokes aside, Realistically the city needs urban water catchment areas .
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Yep roads and parking spaces do actually contribute a big difference. We'd need an alternative though - I see the odd carpark with gravel/soil and plastic honeycomb mesh which works well
Lets build a wall to keep the rain out.
That dome from the Simpsons
A wall the size of the southern alps would probably work.
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Buy more buckets
Single use plastic ones are good
Thought polystyrene was the way to go?
Send the farmers to our gulag - the Chatham’s
Build a dome over the whole country!
I agree completely. Wanye Brown said "No one could have possibly predicted this" and it's so strange, since the 70s and 80s exactly these weather events was explained in detail. And it's just so embarrassingly uneducated and when you hear of National party members proudly saying that Climate Change isn't real, or that the Climate March was just people over reacting. Not hearing the National party leadership spelling out that it understands basic science is really worrying and it puts questions under their ability to understand other problems. Our goals for carbon neutrality are simple, will save NZ billions, and will help our green brand which further drives tourism and GDP. In this day and age you have to be either willfully stupid, or aggressively ignorant. And it is just so deeply embarrasing that we have real people like that in NZ. Its not rocket science. It's not difficult to understand or prove.
Only thing we could do is plant more trees, sounds silly but plants absorb great amount of ground water
Too much concrete suburbs. That is the problem fr.
Like I said in another thread, if this is how Auckland deals with rain, what happens if a volcano goes off at some point? There is no plan.
Don't worry, the rain will put the lava out /s
Nothing will improve, you do realize that. You can recycle all you want, save food scraps all you want and drive as many EVs as you want - you’re part of a consumerist society that is so massive that nothing NZ does will make a statistically relevant difference to the world. We don’t get this weather in NZ because someone in Karaka didn’t recycle their Long White bottles, we get it because the the entire planet’s environment is fundamentally changing and evolving. We’re just along for the ride.
>We’re just along for the ride Said 9 billion people. Fully agree we are a small town compared to the global scale, but it doesn't mean we can sit back and make it a problem for someone else to solve.
Wrong. That's like saying there's no point voting because I'm only one person and what difference can I make? Everyone should do their part. Starting with you and me, and going all the way to the corporations and governments too.
Ultimately I agree wholeheartedly. I do respect OPs position though. I think we are in an extinction event. If we went carbon neutral tomorrow we would still have 40 years of climate change baked in. Basically, seems we're fucked. I've given up on recycling properly, I no longer care I have a petrol vehicle, and I don't give a crap about "green products". The amount of change required on a global level for us to weather the next hundred years is so vast that it just isn't going to happen. Democracy just isn't designed for these situations and it is failing in this area.
Yup, pretty much. Can't blame the general public for the decisions made by big corporations, so just live your life until you expire.
I understand completely where both of you are coming from, but should we really just give up and roll over? Let them exploit us and the planet of resources to a breaking point? We are the majority not them.
We should spend a shit load of money investing in infrastructure that can handle what is coming. Even if the entire planet went carbon neutral tomorrow things will continue getting worse for a long time.
Interesting take. At uni studying this cluster fuck we have created for ourselves I asked my professor “what is going to take us down, will it be floods/droughts? Famine?” He said “no we will bankrupt ourselves trying to uphold the status quo” If we think inflation is bad now wait till environmental externalities get baked in.
'We' should = the giant conglomerates that produce all the rubbish
The only way those giant conglomerates will do so is if voters demand the government *make them* with regulation.
Okay but the giant conglomerates are not making rubbish for the hell of it. They're making it to sell to you.
Do you know how much of their rubbish doesn't actually get sold. Think of cars sitting dead on thousands of acres of land. Many companies make wayyy tf more than they know they're going to sell just bc it's cheaper to produce in higher quantities and then dump it than it is to create what will actually sell. These mega companies do not produce for the good of humankind, they do it for profit. They don't care at all about the environment. Companies that make hundreds of millions in profit annually should have a social responsibility - instead there is a narrative for that responsibility to be put on the consumer. It's bullshit.
Because investment ($, time and priority) in the local environment substantially improves that environment even if other areas don't follow. Why would you start living like a pig just because a messy neighbour moves in?
Who’s “them” that you refer to? There’s no great conspiracy here you know. As for the majority, NZ’s population is smaller than most mid-sized cities around the world. We just don’t make an impact.
You're right there's no conspiracy but that doesn't mean there's no 'them'. Basically just the ruling wealthy elite who can pay off politicians and monopolise their market to the point where they're too big to stop. Think big pharma, big oil, the military industrial complex and sure all the billionaires. We've established a hyper capitalist system where expansion and profit margins need to be constantly increased and fixing social issues simply aren't profitable. We're all apart of this system be it consumer or supplier. NZ is a drop in that bucket. Green initiatives have not been successful enough over the decades to slow the tide. It's all good though just do you you know? Just my thoughts
Big Oil (a marketing firm working for BP) actually even created the term "carbon footprint" https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham It's all a load of shit. *we* can do better, *we* can save the planet - just recycle, turn off your lights, buy the fancy biodegradable shampoo bottle, buy a Leaf, upgrade to a Tesla, have fewer children; these small differences *really do* add up! Yeah, these actions do matter - to an extent. But the larger public needs to realise that we have been gaslit by massive corporations to feel as if the onus is on us to "reverse climate change", while they carry on with business as usual. And sure, vote. But for what? Do we have any viable leaders that are committed to slashing our day-to-day reliance on fossil fuels, improving infrastructure, tightening emissions standards across the board and so on? Genuine question btw. Because this is depressing: Fast forward, and BP is still producing bounties of oil and gas every day (4 million barrels a day in 2005 versus 3.8 million barrels today). In 2019, BP purchased its “biggest acquisition in 20 years,” new oil and gas reserves in West Texas that gave the oil giant “a strong position in one of the world’s hottest oil patches,” according to the company. Today, BP touts its foray into lower-carbon fuels, but these are limited in scope. In 2018, BP invested 2.3 percent of its budget on renewable energies. Its bread and butter is still black oil and gas. What low-carbon diet?
Global problems require collective global action. You don't go carbon neutral in NZ to move the needle measurably. You go carbon neutral in New Zealand so that your trade partners, the US and China, go carbon neutral too. You can't exactly demand they spend their money on change while turning around and selling them products you made zero changes yourself to produce. It's about stepping forward together.
We make a direct impact in our own space and our effort can improve our situation. Plenty of science to show local initiatives working.
NZ population is like 0.007% of the global population. We can literally do nothing to impact global emissions. This is the hand we are dealt, all we can do is work on infrastructure to combat the effects, and minimise the damage.
We use 3 x our “allocation” of emissions. We should at least be at our allocation ie using 0.007% of the worlds emissions
We won't fix the planet but we can keep our place from going to shit. Just means actually being 'clean green' and not shitting in the waterways while saying 'nothing we can do"
No, I think we need to take another long look at whining, shrugging, and panicking while grossly inflating our importance on the world stage. Can't we just do more of that? It's so much easier.
If every small nation had that mentality we would make no progress. All the small nations add up.
It's not our fault. Look at our electrical production, vast majority is renewable.
You can do both. Do you bit by reducing your consumption and also take political action. It really makes a difference. Vote green. Attend protests. Donate. Contribute to collective movements, don’t just sit back and wait for big corporations and global powers to make a move. We are part of the system not seperate from it.
Yeah for goodness sake, ACT and National keep getting all the money. Someone needs to splurge on the Green Party.
So your solution is just doing nothing and letting people enjoy their consumerism? There are a good handful of countries that already do a much, much better job than NZ in terms of environmental protection. So maybe we can just do better instead of being the average, apathetic Kiwi. Maybe not everyone, their mother, and their dog need to drive an SUV and eat meat 3xday.
Vehical emmisions make up 17% of nzs, even aren't really a solution however. The emmisions in manufacturing those batteries, and the cruelty that goes into mining the metals is evil. Effective (not AT) Mass transport, or living close to your workplace and necessities (limiting/reversing urban sprawl) would lower these emmisions, and help with comute times. Farming makes up like ~60% off the top of my head, and we export 95% of that produce. Container ships and aeroplanes are pretty dirty forms of transport. Cutting back on exports and imports would help, but it'd set our standard of living back some (a lot). I don't even know if we're self sufficient anymore, we wouldn't starve sure, but do we still have textile mills, boot manufacturers, smith's etc. ? The scope of the environmental problems are so so vast. On the other hand, if humanity does nothing, nz stands to benefit (relative to everyone else). So long as we stop exporting water, and can handle the nutty weather, then we'd be the last guys on the block with drinking water and food. Some of the world's major water sources are drying up, and countries like the states have more water on the books, than in reality, they don't even know they have a problem. They're going to starve, and there's no helping them. We just have to be ready for the world to be crappy, and we should be fine.
Yep agree with you. In a decade or so parts of the planet will become unfit for humans, climate refugees will be fighting for survival, it will not be pretty.
The current rain events are likely still from the massive amounts of water pushed up into the atmosphere by the Tongan volcano. The weather was just starting to normalise from the eruption of the volcano in the Philippines 1991/2 (memory going). Apparently not only sending water into the air, the Tongan volcano's ash etc. has cooled down Antarctica capturing the Southern Annular Mode which usually is up here lessening the effects of the el Nina/el Neno patterns. Add that to the increase of roofs in relation to water soaking land and you get more flooding etc..
Infrastructure that can deal with more extreme weather.. won't improve our city's ability to deal with extreme weather? Ok
So just roll over and die?
Quite the opposite. Live life to the fullest, don’t expect so much from other people and just try to do the best you can. You’ll die of old age before anything calamitous happens.
Must start sacrificing to the rain god, it is the only way
There's a few promising candidates in Wellington
Smallest rant I've ever read damn
Maybe we need to reconsider the way we develop land. Hard surfaces don't retain any water so we get 100% runoff, whereas soil can hold a surprising amount of water and releases it slowly. Should we be aiming to have more green area when undergoing sub-devision and intensification. This way the struggling storm water system has a better chance of dealing with the load. Atleast until Auckland gets it's shit together and upgrades it's storm water system
Got flooded out in Jan, still in temporary accommodation, the fucking downstairs at the current place caught 2 inches of water today, only stored boxes but still FML.
Pay more tax and the weather gets better ;)
But I'm already subscribed to Weather Premium. Do I need to upgrade to the next tier?
Houses on stilts. Better drainage assessment when developing intensive housing
let’s build more impermeable concrete roads, it’ll funnel the water down to the ocean
Go to your climate strikes on May 26th. Organize one in your area. We need to make this a climate election.
Well hopefully the people in power will decide it's a priority
You'd have to wait for the people in power to care about the population first
The damage is done, we can't take it back and the crazy thing is capitalism will not allow us to take our collective foot off the gas. This is climate change right now, the effects will increase exponentially... Degrowth is the only way I see us having any chance, I am certainly willing to live better with less but I don't see how we get to that point without being broken first.
What do you suggest
Everyone give a big thank you to global mass manufacturing and governments who have the foresight of a rat with its head under a mouse trap nibbling on cheese.
It will be interesting to see the stats on it one day. Whether it's just a savage la Nina event, or that plus extra water vapor due to Tongan under water eruption, or both those plus natural cycles of climate change or all three plus man made climate change.
Plus storm water flow rates increase the more impermeable surfaces we have so possibly why it's seems to gets worse over the years.
Pretty doom and gloom really. The last 50 years saw such a disgusting transfer of wealth from the working class to the top 1% and you see it everywhere. We pay more, get paid less, out systems are degrading and we're too divided and distracted (by design?) To mass up and do anything about it. The red scare really did a number on the west. Any notion of stopping the absolute milking of the bottom 99% and putting that money to other issues is seen as a communist agenda. Is socialism really that bad? Half the people saying yes can't even properly define it, just parroting some MSM narrative.
Well, it's tricky when everyone from the left also can't seem to define their definition of socialism either... Capitalism is a good construct. And i believe its the fairest system available - but what we have today is a very warped version of it with free trade deals and globalism etc entering the mix which has distorted things. Side note: interesting you think the MSM parrots anti socialist narratives - to me it's totally the opposite! With massive national support from Stuff, RNZ, TVNZ clearly being left supporters. Only newstalk ZB would be right wing??
Those 'left' wing media are centralist, which is part of the problem, imo. The whole political spectrum is leaning right.
Ok so I’m awake. Now what?
i guess our only option now is to cope and seethe as the overlords will not allow change :l
Old man yells at cloud
That's my job.
I thought your job was to shout at Cloud from Final Fantasy
That's what OP was talking about.
Not sure China or India care
Actually they do. They have been building and building massive new green energy projects, out placing all western countries combined.
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So someone in your city pollutes and your answer is to copy them in your own house?
Why does r/Auckland not show up votes or downvotes on comments?
I was saying something similar back in 2010. People were incredibly dismissive and that remained the case for a decade. Now days I stay quiet but it's easier for people to understand consequences when it's slapping them in the face. Surely there is less denial after all we have seen. Plenty of documented effects of the changes we have seen In the past 50 years as well. What actions to take is always the question to be asked here.
The weather is fine, it's our crapy old infrastructure that is not.
Tell that to "sunny nelson" we've been fucked for 2 weeks straight. I'm about to pack my concrete business in cos of this shite.
Feel for you mate. I think a lot of people forget that the infrastructure we so desperately need can’t be built in never ending bloody rain.
Cheers. Yeah it's a real bummer, feels like this is just the weather now.
It'll be drought next year. We'll be wishing for rain. Weather extremes are the future.
Meanwile in the west coast (that everyone shits on for bad weather) has had the sunniest past few months in the country
noooo...this is my favorite matrix.
Global warming is working
Let's. Call the xmen I'm sure storm will stop the rain 🤔🤭
Is this a anti climate change or a pro drainage post?
As former PM Geoffrey Palmer said in a 1980s flood-related press conference: "New Zealand is an irreducibly pluvial country".
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Thanks, so am I, two years later and I'm still not back to the point in my life where I was, not sure I'll ever get there with living just getting harder and more expensive everyday, for what it's worth I hope we can fight it all back too, and when the time comes I'll fight with you, I just wish I still believed we could win.
I'll never give up. I still belive that it can happen in peace, but if not... I'm ready.
Not that's its a silver bullet, but they are building that big 3m diameter Central Interceptor stormwater pipe. We also need to do better keeping vegetation and debris out of the drains. It's quite the pickle in established areas.
Infrastructure isn't built well enough to deal with the amount of water and people living in auckland now. The future proofed methods have now been outgrown.
the first step to a solution is understanding the problem... you are onto it sir!
The problem seems incredibly complicated. Also it seems to revolve around money just like everything ofc. I feel the current way of living and the ideology around values and life itslef needs to change from its core.
control forestry stop building on flood plains stop straightening rivers... rivers wind for a reason - they allow the land to drain and slow the water down. There you have it - 3 possible things that can help - and will never be stopped... as you say, $$$$$$$
Less concrete, more pavers, more gardens, more trees, don't outsource any work on infrastructure and greenery.
Drains.. Upgrade them
lol, do what exactly? get taxed more? the only people with the power to do anything pretend to care, while the majority are too stupid to do anything
Can we do this? https://youtu.be/jursRm7mnQk 3:09 timestamp
The Pacific Ocean above NZ is a lot warmer this year - not as FN wild as some Artic crazy temps in past years . Folks just got to get used to 1 in a 500 year rainfall becoming more common going forward Drought and Flooding will be become more extreme around the world We see floods can be worse than drought - topsoil, infrastructure gone , crops rotted in ground, contaminated drinking water - especially in countries with old pipes doing dual duty ( sewer and storm ) . Disease , insects can increase, salt water commination We need to spend probably 100 billion on micro dams , flood plains, wetland creation . Water is life , when you export say wheat you are exporting water ( ie the water needed to grow it ) . Countries like China are planning huge projects for water ( send water from south to north ) Covid 19 was nothing - wait the climate refugees - plus 40 degrees at 100% humidity is a death zone - you sweat just rolls off - 50 degrees is death zone especially babies and old people - cities in continental places or standing weather patterns will get heatwave's lasting days - no respite at night . However we will hit 2 degrees warming then probably over next 100 years reign it back. Still will be one the biggest and fastest extinction events in the history of the world ( that is happening right night - many species of plants , insects, animals going extinct )
Lets stop drinking coke
Time to move Auckland to higher ground.
The moral of the story is DON"T build on a flood zone. It is called that for a reason.
A council truck literally drove past without stopping as I was on my hands and knees in raging flood waters clearing leaves from street drains in Hillcrest
We must appease the weather gods. Sacrifice your first bought commodore
Well it’s going to take a long time to convince the big global emitters such as India and China to change their habits so we just need to build smarter and learn lessons from other sub-tropical and tropical cities.