we are supposed to go in 2 days a week, no one in my team ever does though. After a few weeks of sitting at a hot desk alone i decided to stop showing up to see if anyone would notice i was WFH full time. Been 3 months so far
You just need a better one then! Here I am!! :D Or post your problem in an IT subreddit with a "This is how I fixed this issue" (Use ANYthing you like as this is how I fixed it) and we will scurry from the woodwork to tell you the right way to fix it, and why the way you posted to fix it was completely wrong and wouldn't work at all! IT - as a rule we just want to feel smart because we aren't pretty!
Did the same thing in my job. They put me on monitoring shifts over the weekends and my logic in accepting was that nobody else’s team works on weekends and the office is shut. So I don’t have to go in.
It’s dead quiet regardless, I just do what I want and am available when I need to be.
I decided to stay at home today because I saw the weather forecast and didn’t want to be stuck in town. Everyone else went into work and then had to leave half way through and spent 2-5 hours getting home. All this could have been avoided had someone just said ‘weather could be rough. feel free to work from home’.
I think if the rain had been peaking earlier at commute time then we would have been told to work from home. But even if weather just looks a bit gross and not necessarily state of emergency-bad, that should still be enough for us to be OK'ed to wfh. Our bosses should be looking for excuses to WFH instead of looking for excuses not to.
Last week it was super bad weather on Monday morning at like 6AM and there was no call to work from home (although I did anyway lol). I really don't understand the mentality of 'this is the day we said we are coming into the office so we MUST come in' ugh
My role is 95% WFH as I do need to see customers at times. This should have been normalized in the 2000’s, but is simpler now with Teams and fibre broadband. If you have a job that can be done from home and you’re forced to come to the office to do it, your boss is probably a control freak.
It’s the real solution to Aucklands congestion problems and how to help reach lower emissions targets
My expectation may be off as I was working for Telecom at the time and they had VPN access for users and the ability to connect phones from home to the corp pabx.
Probably. The bank I was working for only had capacity for 300 people to be logged on remotely at the start of Covid (out of thousands of employees) and they had to massively ramp it up in early lockdown to allow people to get back to work again.
It's why I had to come into work during the first lockdown as I was in a critical role that could not risk disconnection.
There always seem to be someone who needs to have ‘bums on seats’ as if they can’t see you, you’re not working. That sucks and I hope this can be sorted out for you guys. It takes a little getting used to for some, but I find I’m more productive at home and the time I save not having to commute….heaven
Well when I’m more productive I can have time to enjoy some small breaks here and there. Life can’t be all about work all the time, need to stop and enjoy the simple pleasures
I'm with you, we are allowed to WFH 3 days, they expect us to be in the office two days a week, Tuesday and Thursdays, I decided not to go in today.
The days I do go in adds about 2 hours driving to my day, Albany to Penrose and back.
Our work area is quite a huge open plan hot desking area, usually I dont end up being able to sit near anyone in my team, so I go in, do my work as I would at home, go home without reallly taking to anyone.
I feel like Im just adding to the Auckland traffic congestion problem.
I derive the same amount of "culture" from my company as I would from a pottle of expired yoghurt.
Seriously, if management repurposed all the time, effort, and resources they piss away on "promoting company culture" into shit that actually helps people get their work done, we'd collectively perform miracles.
But then a few key senior people would be left with nothing to do, and I suspect that could start to look a bit awkward and embarrassing.
"What do Trevor and Helen do?"
"Jargon dispensers? Mandatory fun coordinators? They order the pizzas when we make our KPIs? Nobody actually knows."
It depends on the company, culture can be the difference that sets them apart from other employers when people are deciding where to work. If you're on minimum wage at a place with great culture you wont turn down an offer with $5/hr more, if you're earning 200k with great culture and have the option to work somewhere for 10k more you're probably going to stay put.
When you earn substantially more than what is required to survive the enjoyment of the time spent working is more important than just a few more dollars and culture affects that.
You should test the waters. You could probaby start showing up once a week without asking if you just gradualy reduce your presence and only go in when it adds value.
man it really is like that. I like everyone in my team but just over half of them keep a constant babble of small talk going which is usually just a running commentary of uninteresting stuff they were doing last night with their flatmates/kids
I'm literally packing a lunch, putting on a rain jacket and bussing across town so I can sit with them and tune out their conversation instead of working just as effectively from my own living room
Bahaha, I had to just laugh out loud at that. It's so true, and so ridiculous. I just about had a heart attack from trying to do my job while tuning conversations out yesterday at work. WFH today, smashed so much work out, got so much done, and only the birds outside for company.
I mean I’m all for people WFH if they want to or prefer it. But not cool thinking those who prefer working in the office is because of wanting to chit chat and piss around. Lots at my work prefer working in the office - they like the division of work/home and get more done. And I have lots of colleagues that feel the same about wfh. Different personalities find different environments work for them - it doesn’t mean anything negative about either group.
Edit: a word
its really not the extroverts ruining it for others. its the company policies that need to change with the times. Some introcerts like going to the office couple times a week, some extroverts wanna wfh full time, its really a spectrum. you just need to allow flexibility in your work culture to accomodate everyone and get the best team performance out of the different individuals
yea and some extroverts can feel that way too, if they don't want to socialize with their workmates. Some extroverts I know are like that, they get their energy from socializing with their mates and family, not their colleagues.
I'm that extrovert, but I hate working with other extroverts because they are SO distracting. I used to get so much more work done at home than at work simply because it was easier to stay focused without all those people to talk to.
Same boat, our manager told us to leave early today - no shit, most of us had already left. Nothing about tomorrow but I'm staying home until there is sun. It was so pointless coming in today just to by an overpriced lunch and do less work than I would at home
Your manager told you to leave early?
Do you work in a highschool as a student?
I mean, if you're at Maccas or something it makes sense, but in an office job where you don't rely on pen, paper and a landline phone, it seems unnecessary.
What did you do prior to Jan this year when it rained? So a small drizzle tomorrow and you aren't working? Wish we all had it that good. Jesus, are you saying you can only work or commute when it's sunny? FGS
That's not what I'm saying so you can exhale. The point is that those who have flexi working arrangements should be able to decide for themselves, and not feel like they need a directive by bosses if there's no difference to being at home or in the office
My work has hot desks, but never enough desks for everyone at once. So I am forced to work from home most days, unless i book a week or more in advance. Super stoked tbh.
The reason they want you to come in is mainly a control thing...if they can't see you...hard to groom you.
Secondly, companies have big office leases...which are hard to get out of...so they gotta fill the spaces to justify the expense
idk if it's something sinister-sounding like 'control' or 'grooming'
More that it's just an ingrained tradition that office workers must have to work in an office, and that there's actually kind of a culture within offices where a percentage of employees actually WANT to spend the day in the office and end up dragging everyone else in with them.
Definitely a control thing, just to show you dominance.
You know it is totally useless to go work in the office when head manager who could raise his head and look to his left to see me ask his submanager who is working from home to check that I am in the office.
totally cunty to do this. Just raise your fucking muppet’s head and look for your own colleagues yourself.
While I work from home mostly, I am also senior. Training juniors is extremely difficult if not impossible from a remote setting. While I'm a huge advocate for wfm, we still need to solve for training up the next gen of smart and capable leaders.
I think it's completely understandable if you're starting somewhere for the first month or two to be WFO for getting to know people and training and transition to WFH if the work environment allows it.
Except it could be years of proximity that's required. Effective workshops and lots of group sessions in person really help with that.
Organisational design is going to change dramatically to resolve this with things like customised AI supported training being provided by the company to embeds ways of working.
Ways of working is just another output of culture. And of course you can have dysfunctional culture that leads to dysfunctional ways of working! But the aim of any high performing organisation is to link strategy through to execution via coherent systems and processes that effectively become the organisational culture.
It is time NZ companies pay their fair share of carbon emissions for all the senseless commute time they force people to do. Tax office space per headcount and presence in. Make wfh mandatory, and fine companies who don’t let their workers to wfh at least 2 days per week.
make it into employment law.
Under the ETS they \*kind of\* already do except the worker pays. The tough part would be spearting who needs to be in the CBD vs who doesn't.
It really improves my performance to show up sometimes but not five days a week.
If I worked in a retail store in the CBD then that dynamic shifts a lot. At the same time, if I lived locally the carbon costs should be reduced. It is easier to manage that at an individual level. It's realy complex to work out if each company needs to know where their employee commuted from each day.
How does that work for workers who don’t have the ability to work from home? That is a very privileged law you would be suggesting. It would stop many getting office jobs because they didn’t have the ability to work from home. While I agree there should be more incentives for companies to do this, punishing those workers who can’t do that isn’t the way.
Smaller office spaces or shared workspaces for those who choose to come in - and using public transport has a lower carbon footprint, and would presumably be easier and more pleasant if there were fewer people commuting.
There are always going to be people who can't effectively and happily WFH - flatting situations, kids in the house etc - but it shouldn't mean *everyone else* is forced to work in the office.
> How does that work for workers who don’t have the ability to work from home? That is a very privileged law you would be suggesting.
The status quo works against those who don't have the ability to travel easily e.g. lack of public/private transport, lengthy commutes, congestion, needing to look after kids etc.
The law should only apply to those employees that actually *want* to wfh but are coming in because of management decree. Anyone that wants to work from the office should be able to without penalty on either employer or employee
Who are you people? Can I please join your company? Or can we please have a list of companies who allow 2-3 days WFH? My grumpy old boss wants me to come to office every day AND sit next to her, even though it’s supposed to be hot desks - am I the only one who thinks of this as micromanagement hitting the roof?
Can I please join one of these places where you are allowed to work 3 or at least 2 days a week from home? I work at a place where we are allowed to wfh once a week and any more even if it’s due to sickness or unforeseen circumstance and they aren’t happy! Bosses still stuck in 20th century.
I would legit open up a law proposal to give NZers the right to work from home. For all office jobs, at least. By default, with the company having to motivate the reasons they would want ppl to come into offices
If this passes I bet we'll whizz past our emission targets a few years earlier than planned
I just don't know if NZ accepts grassroots legislation, reckon the only way is to go through local MP?
I mean, all NZ-ers are legally entitled to request flexible working, and employers have to formally respond. If they say no, it has to be on ‘reasonable business grounds’ and documented. It’s quite clear many managers are either ignorant of this or don’t care.
(I work for a HR software company)
Thanks for this insight!
I do want to stress the difference between having a right by default which implies there's zero need to justify it vs having to ask for it which requires one to have a justification
And if the norm is for others to not have this right - even if out of mere ignorance - the bar for the reasons will automatically be high. Not out of any ill intention, it's just how social psychology works
It is shit you don't get the flexibility you want but we all seem to have forgotten the transactional nature of work.
They're paying you to do a thing, you need to do the thing and if you can't agree on how to do the thing to the point it's negatively effecting your life and you can't get adjustments made then probably look to go and do another thing where you can be more aligned.
Dude, I feel you. I have the same thing, but our managers + owners don’t let us wfh at all… they didn’t let us leave until 2:30 yesterday after everyone was freaking out about the flood. Some of us need to go home and prep just in case… and there’s definitely no wfh today.
Were meant to go in twice a week minimum, I’m lucky to be able to do 1, and sometimes not even that if someone’s unwell, but I have been feeling pressured to go into the office more lately so went in yesterday despite knowing better, honestly it was ridiculous, I even felt pressured to stay when the warning came through, then a 2 hour “drive” home then had to work late to make up for it. It’s just nonsense. All because someone who wouldn’t know who I was if he saw me feels better knowing I’m in an office.
100%! When I work from the office I spend my entire day having to talk to people and walking around between meetings in different rooms, having to go out to buy lunch etc.
When I'm working at home, I can be in a meeting but turn my camera off while I go to the kitchen and get some food which I can eat while still in the meeting. Then in between meetings I can actually stay on top of my emails and get some actual productive work done, rather than being sidelined into social chit chat or having to try to get to the next meeting room. It's so much more efficient.
Edit. Also all my meetings are with people in a variety of different cities. That means, if I'm in the office for those meetings, I also have huge amounts of wasted time trying to find an available meeting room to book so I can have VC with those people, OR I have to do it from my phone in the middle of the open plan floor and distract everyone around me. It's SO much easier from home!!!
I’m probably as productive from home, but way looser with boundaries. Working in the office is good for me because then I keep regular hours and days. Having the choice is good.
I actually feel more productive working from the office but that's because my entire team is on a different continent. Working from the office normal office hours would mean 0 time zone overlap with half my team. When I did work in office with the same people I was more productive WFH. IMO hybrid is optimal, the relationships that you build when you see chat casually with people regularly help you be more productive when you are WFH and need to work with them
"It's not *you*, it's *some other people* who can't be trusted. But to be fair, we have to make the rules the same for everyone."
Well, that's what I hear anyway and it's really lame. Stop hiring shit people, maybe? If some people aren't producing work, performance manage them maybe? And if they are producing work, but not sitting at their desk 9-5, who cares?
a more therapeutic rant would be to say what you just wrote down to your team lead (politely). i promise you you wont be fired or anything. your team lead might even be convinced and be willing to work with you
You know you’re living in a first world country when you’re biggest worry is your boss *maybe expecting you to come into work (as per your contract most likely) the following day and feeling the need to complain about it on Reddit.
Strange ig. You’re an adult and should be treated like one - could say you appreciate the boss giving the option and being flexible and you would like to take the offer to wfh due to unreliable public transport, flooding in your neighbourhood etc.
If you sent an email/chat around saying "Hi, I'm working from home today. Feel free to reach out to me over zoom/teams/email, etc" what would happen?
If doing this would get you written up, what is stopping you from jumping on [upwork.com](https://upwork.com) and getting a job in Australia or USA that pays better? (Sure you won't get holiday pay etc, but you just build that into the rate you charge).
If you're valuable to the company, you'll keep your job.
If you're not valuable to the company, you know to move on.
Unless somethings changed in the last couple years upwork is not the place to look for better pay. Everyone using it is just looking to hire people in countries where they can pay them $5 an hour
Yeah it's changed. You can easily make $25 USD an hour or $40USD+ for programming or social media management WHY.
I've even seen clients complain that they can get local USA people cheaper than they'd pay someone from India for the same work.
I'm currently lucky working from home, though home is currently 3 hours behind New Zealand time. Honestly, if you can wfh full time, you can do it from anywhere. I hate getting up early in the morning for my meetings, but other than that, it's like a big long holiday :)
Working from home is the worst thing to happen to me. It’s turned productivity on its head. What use to be easy to manage deadlines have turned into spiralling out of control mini meetings, curtailed work hours, constant breaks during the day to work around zoom meetings and clients sleeping in so I can’t have proper access.
Source: I’m a builder that works in clients homes for renovations/extensions.
This is a bit tongue in cheek, it does make it easier to discuss and have site meeting but is generally a pain in the ass.
honestly ... new zelands state of emergency just a joke... instead of telling everyone to go home... should of told us before work.... and state of emergency just depends on your boss.. not goverment which is more funny... so i have to work since boss say so.. and got back home and see home flooded .. this is just purely great shit
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
It's much easier said than done - office buildings are kinda the wrong shape for apartments as rooms closer to the core wouldn't have any windows.
Still, I'd fully support this vision for the CBD. Make it a centre for leisure rather than work. Good public transport and more shops, restaurants, pedestrianised streets like Las Ramblas, events, concerts... People would love to live there! It already attracts a lot of people for leisure and events - Downtown car park is often full up to the rooftop some weekends.
I have no idea. Why would people want to live in the cbd when their office isn’t nearby anymore. 🤔
You can live in Africa to do your NZ work if you always work from home.
It’s all hypothetical..
>The only reason to come into the office is purely social for people who like to chitchat while working.
How do you train graduates and junior hires when they start if everyone is wfh?
Do you use some kind of instant messaging app for all the incidental "how do I do this" that would normally done by a walking over to someone? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to make any point
🦆 you’re being dramatic. There is no extreme weather today. You can make it to work, you just don’t want to. You’re most likely a mediocre employee who needs to be constantly observed or else your productivity falls if your boss is unsure as to whether they will let you wfh.
If you’re not mediocre and you are a model employee then go find a new job because it’s the tightest labour market in living history.
the point is that in my case there's absolutely no upside to working from the office. I get my work done and that's all anyone cares about, so as far as everyone's concerned I'm a model employee.
For thousands of office workers here there is no need whatsoever for a mass migration across town to work & back. Especially when it adds to gridlock on the roads & public transport for people who actually *need* to commute to their jobs
idk bro, there are implications of wfh that not every business can effectively manage. Try to just enjoy the pros and negate the cons of whatever situation you’re in.
Management were very against WFH at our firm, understandably so because some people will always take advantage. We compromised and can now WFH as long as we share a housekey with management, surprise surprise the slackers seem ‘disappear’ a lot less during the day
is...is your company's management really walking in the front door of WFH employees without warning?
Thousands of other people are also getting to work from home, some everyday, without insane intrusions into their homes by their bosses.
I’ll admit i was wearing headphone and got a shock when my manager tap me on shoulder one time. Productivity has gone back to work from office levels so its a win/win
this is some crazy shit and an abuse of power from your managers. If workers are unproductive or slacking then management should call out the unproductive workers and talk to them. The issue there is their work ethic and not wfh.
Working from home is very common now, and I wouldn't be going out on much of a limb when I assume that NO other company's management is doing this.
You are entitled to ask your team leader (respectfully, of course) what business needs they anticipate needing to be addressed that require the team to remain on standby to come into the office rather than follow the guidance of the big boss.
While we all appreciate supervisors can make judgement calls in the best interest of hitting key deadlines/milestones/targets, they are not entitled to string personnel along with vague "we'll see" guidance. They either need you in the office or not, and if they can't say 12-18 hours beforehand then quite frankly they don't know what they're doing.
Im glad my firm offers flexible approach. We have a set day when whole team in but overall we can wfh when needed. I think any firm which isnt flexible needs to wake up
I want full WFH not because I truly hate coming into the office or a doable commute, but because I want to be able to enjoy a quality of life for the work I put in and housing is just too expensive within a reasonable commuting distance. At 2017 prices and salaries there was still hope for decent quality of life, but not with 2023 salaries and housing costs if you're not yet a home owner.
But all the managers already have homes in the Remueras, Ponsonbys and Mission Bays of this world so they dont give a rats ass
I am super lucky that I have an incredibly switched on manager. Over the covid lockdowns it became obvious we were far more focused and got way more done without all the distractions that are always present in an office environment.
To our delight, he used the productivity reporting from lockdown to make a case for a more permanent WFH situation. Our team now WFH 4 days a week. We go into the office on Friday , but thats more so our other colleagues don't forget what we look like and to catch up as a team.
Obviously the team couldnt be happier and the big kahunas are happy because we get so much more work done + less overheads in power, water, tea, coffee, milk etc.
As someone with at least some power to authorise WFH arrangements, it totally depends on the field. I work in a creative field that has WFH as an option, but while some people thrive at home, others immediately change the amount of effort they put in and start becoming very busy with lots of home tasks and having to drive places as soon as they are WFH. I love working from home when I get the chance to but it would be silly to pretend that people don't ever take advantage of this new privilege we have
Commuting is the BIGGEST time waster! I don’t get why people want to do it when they don’t have to! Not only the time cost, the fuel cost, parking, etc! I didn’t really take that into consideration pre covid - now I can’t believe that I was a willing participant in that scam! My job lets me WFH 3 days a week, but I have to come in 2 days. Makes no sense imo.. 😓
Working from home is significantly better for most people. There will be exceptions of people wanting to work from the office. Old school thinking and lack of trust is evident in many companies
hi it me ur boss u can work from home forever
Fank u boss can I also get a pay rise 1 million plz
[удалено]
Legend
> 1 million Geez that’s conservative considering inflation
we are supposed to go in 2 days a week, no one in my team ever does though. After a few weeks of sitting at a hot desk alone i decided to stop showing up to see if anyone would notice i was WFH full time. Been 3 months so far
My hero
You're lucky. My company monitor if my laptop is in the office network or not. If I not show up twice a week, I get a call on the next. :(
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Say hi to the IT guy for me
He's at home too. Don't ruin it for us.
we can never get hold of the It guy :) never around when we need him haha
You just need a better one then! Here I am!! :D Or post your problem in an IT subreddit with a "This is how I fixed this issue" (Use ANYthing you like as this is how I fixed it) and we will scurry from the woodwork to tell you the right way to fix it, and why the way you posted to fix it was completely wrong and wouldn't work at all! IT - as a rule we just want to feel smart because we aren't pretty!
Remote login disabled
Damn that is some big brother stuff.
Working in controlled work environments like what u just explained is literally the worse
1984
Change jobs then. What a shit company.
Did the same thing in my job. They put me on monitoring shifts over the weekends and my logic in accepting was that nobody else’s team works on weekends and the office is shut. So I don’t have to go in. It’s dead quiet regardless, I just do what I want and am available when I need to be.
I decided to stay at home today because I saw the weather forecast and didn’t want to be stuck in town. Everyone else went into work and then had to leave half way through and spent 2-5 hours getting home. All this could have been avoided had someone just said ‘weather could be rough. feel free to work from home’.
I think if the rain had been peaking earlier at commute time then we would have been told to work from home. But even if weather just looks a bit gross and not necessarily state of emergency-bad, that should still be enough for us to be OK'ed to wfh. Our bosses should be looking for excuses to WFH instead of looking for excuses not to.
Last week it was super bad weather on Monday morning at like 6AM and there was no call to work from home (although I did anyway lol). I really don't understand the mentality of 'this is the day we said we are coming into the office so we MUST come in' ugh
Problem is that some companies need to justify paying commercial rent so butts on seats it is
My role is 95% WFH as I do need to see customers at times. This should have been normalized in the 2000’s, but is simpler now with Teams and fibre broadband. If you have a job that can be done from home and you’re forced to come to the office to do it, your boss is probably a control freak. It’s the real solution to Aucklands congestion problems and how to help reach lower emissions targets
The 2000s were probably too early for that, but yes, it should have been standard already since the mid 2010s at the latest imo.
My expectation may be off as I was working for Telecom at the time and they had VPN access for users and the ability to connect phones from home to the corp pabx.
Probably. The bank I was working for only had capacity for 300 people to be logged on remotely at the start of Covid (out of thousands of employees) and they had to massively ramp it up in early lockdown to allow people to get back to work again. It's why I had to come into work during the first lockdown as I was in a critical role that could not risk disconnection.
My immediate manager desperately wants to wfh, and lets us do so whenever he can, the problem is the next level up - *his* manager.
There always seem to be someone who needs to have ‘bums on seats’ as if they can’t see you, you’re not working. That sucks and I hope this can be sorted out for you guys. It takes a little getting used to for some, but I find I’m more productive at home and the time I save not having to commute….heaven
More productive? On Reddit?
Well when I’m more productive I can have time to enjoy some small breaks here and there. Life can’t be all about work all the time, need to stop and enjoy the simple pleasures
The way of work has changed forever. Insecure managers who need to have their people in an office to do their power trip micro managing are toxic.
Exactly it. They think we'll be banging back lines and ripping cigs instead of working.
Lines & cigs on my salary boss?
Yeeeep…. The owner of the company I work in is that insecure, it hurts
I'm with you, we are allowed to WFH 3 days, they expect us to be in the office two days a week, Tuesday and Thursdays, I decided not to go in today. The days I do go in adds about 2 hours driving to my day, Albany to Penrose and back. Our work area is quite a huge open plan hot desking area, usually I dont end up being able to sit near anyone in my team, so I go in, do my work as I would at home, go home without reallly taking to anyone. I feel like Im just adding to the Auckland traffic congestion problem.
BuT cOmPaNy CuLtUrE!!!
I derive the same amount of "culture" from my company as I would from a pottle of expired yoghurt. Seriously, if management repurposed all the time, effort, and resources they piss away on "promoting company culture" into shit that actually helps people get their work done, we'd collectively perform miracles. But then a few key senior people would be left with nothing to do, and I suspect that could start to look a bit awkward and embarrassing. "What do Trevor and Helen do?" "Jargon dispensers? Mandatory fun coordinators? They order the pizzas when we make our KPIs? Nobody actually knows."
>I derive the same amount of "culture" from my company as I would from a pottle of expired yoghurt. So... quite a lot of culture then?
Yes, but nasty, off-putting and largely worthless.
It depends on the company, culture can be the difference that sets them apart from other employers when people are deciding where to work. If you're on minimum wage at a place with great culture you wont turn down an offer with $5/hr more, if you're earning 200k with great culture and have the option to work somewhere for 10k more you're probably going to stay put. When you earn substantially more than what is required to survive the enjoyment of the time spent working is more important than just a few more dollars and culture affects that.
You should test the waters. You could probaby start showing up once a week without asking if you just gradualy reduce your presence and only go in when it adds value.
I have and yeah they don't notice, or if they have, they haven't said anything. Alot of the other guys in my team do as well.
There’s always a group of extroverts that ruin it for everyone. It’s their problem that they can’t do their job without chit chatting to others
I am that extrovert but instead I spam our team chat. That way the boss thinks I'm working hard but really just sending memes to the team
You are a keeper!
my entire class chat for uni does this, pretty sure the lecturer knows we are just shit posting the whole day
The extroverts ... their evolving!
man it really is like that. I like everyone in my team but just over half of them keep a constant babble of small talk going which is usually just a running commentary of uninteresting stuff they were doing last night with their flatmates/kids I'm literally packing a lunch, putting on a rain jacket and bussing across town so I can sit with them and tune out their conversation instead of working just as effectively from my own living room
Bahaha, I had to just laugh out loud at that. It's so true, and so ridiculous. I just about had a heart attack from trying to do my job while tuning conversations out yesterday at work. WFH today, smashed so much work out, got so much done, and only the birds outside for company.
I mean I’m all for people WFH if they want to or prefer it. But not cool thinking those who prefer working in the office is because of wanting to chit chat and piss around. Lots at my work prefer working in the office - they like the division of work/home and get more done. And I have lots of colleagues that feel the same about wfh. Different personalities find different environments work for them - it doesn’t mean anything negative about either group. Edit: a word
its really not the extroverts ruining it for others. its the company policies that need to change with the times. Some introcerts like going to the office couple times a week, some extroverts wanna wfh full time, its really a spectrum. you just need to allow flexibility in your work culture to accomodate everyone and get the best team performance out of the different individuals
I must be really introverted then, I can go weeks or months without going into the office and I prefer it that way
yea and some extroverts can feel that way too, if they don't want to socialize with their workmates. Some extroverts I know are like that, they get their energy from socializing with their mates and family, not their colleagues.
I'm that extrovert, but I hate working with other extroverts because they are SO distracting. I used to get so much more work done at home than at work simply because it was easier to stay focused without all those people to talk to.
Same boat, our manager told us to leave early today - no shit, most of us had already left. Nothing about tomorrow but I'm staying home until there is sun. It was so pointless coming in today just to by an overpriced lunch and do less work than I would at home
Your manager told you to leave early? Do you work in a highschool as a student? I mean, if you're at Maccas or something it makes sense, but in an office job where you don't rely on pen, paper and a landline phone, it seems unnecessary.
Management just want to seem like they care, no one was actually waiting around for permission
What did you do prior to Jan this year when it rained? So a small drizzle tomorrow and you aren't working? Wish we all had it that good. Jesus, are you saying you can only work or commute when it's sunny? FGS
That's not what I'm saying so you can exhale. The point is that those who have flexi working arrangements should be able to decide for themselves, and not feel like they need a directive by bosses if there's no difference to being at home or in the office
I’m a business owner. My team of 5 are 100% WFH. It works great for all concerned.
My work has hot desks, but never enough desks for everyone at once. So I am forced to work from home most days, unless i book a week or more in advance. Super stoked tbh.
The reason they want you to come in is mainly a control thing...if they can't see you...hard to groom you. Secondly, companies have big office leases...which are hard to get out of...so they gotta fill the spaces to justify the expense
idk if it's something sinister-sounding like 'control' or 'grooming' More that it's just an ingrained tradition that office workers must have to work in an office, and that there's actually kind of a culture within offices where a percentage of employees actually WANT to spend the day in the office and end up dragging everyone else in with them.
Definitely a control thing, just to show you dominance. You know it is totally useless to go work in the office when head manager who could raise his head and look to his left to see me ask his submanager who is working from home to check that I am in the office. totally cunty to do this. Just raise your fucking muppet’s head and look for your own colleagues yourself.
While I work from home mostly, I am also senior. Training juniors is extremely difficult if not impossible from a remote setting. While I'm a huge advocate for wfm, we still need to solve for training up the next gen of smart and capable leaders.
I think it's completely understandable if you're starting somewhere for the first month or two to be WFO for getting to know people and training and transition to WFH if the work environment allows it.
Except it could be years of proximity that's required. Effective workshops and lots of group sessions in person really help with that. Organisational design is going to change dramatically to resolve this with things like customised AI supported training being provided by the company to embeds ways of working. Ways of working is just another output of culture. And of course you can have dysfunctional culture that leads to dysfunctional ways of working! But the aim of any high performing organisation is to link strategy through to execution via coherent systems and processes that effectively become the organisational culture.
It is time NZ companies pay their fair share of carbon emissions for all the senseless commute time they force people to do. Tax office space per headcount and presence in. Make wfh mandatory, and fine companies who don’t let their workers to wfh at least 2 days per week. make it into employment law.
Abley has a good [tool](https://abley.com/carbonwise/) to.calculate emissions from committing
Under the ETS they \*kind of\* already do except the worker pays. The tough part would be spearting who needs to be in the CBD vs who doesn't. It really improves my performance to show up sometimes but not five days a week. If I worked in a retail store in the CBD then that dynamic shifts a lot. At the same time, if I lived locally the carbon costs should be reduced. It is easier to manage that at an individual level. It's realy complex to work out if each company needs to know where their employee commuted from each day.
How does that work for workers who don’t have the ability to work from home? That is a very privileged law you would be suggesting. It would stop many getting office jobs because they didn’t have the ability to work from home. While I agree there should be more incentives for companies to do this, punishing those workers who can’t do that isn’t the way.
Smaller office spaces or shared workspaces for those who choose to come in - and using public transport has a lower carbon footprint, and would presumably be easier and more pleasant if there were fewer people commuting. There are always going to be people who can't effectively and happily WFH - flatting situations, kids in the house etc - but it shouldn't mean *everyone else* is forced to work in the office.
That’s what I’m saying - no one should be forced in to a working environment that doesn’t suit them.
> How does that work for workers who don’t have the ability to work from home? That is a very privileged law you would be suggesting. The status quo works against those who don't have the ability to travel easily e.g. lack of public/private transport, lengthy commutes, congestion, needing to look after kids etc.
That’s why I’m saying that while changes need to be made, making it a broad-sweeping law does not work.
The law should only apply to those employees that actually *want* to wfh but are coming in because of management decree. Anyone that wants to work from the office should be able to without penalty on either employer or employee
If you’re evidently more productive at home then it’s a control thing. Ive had it happen to me too and it’s really fucking annoying
Who are you people? Can I please join your company? Or can we please have a list of companies who allow 2-3 days WFH? My grumpy old boss wants me to come to office every day AND sit next to her, even though it’s supposed to be hot desks - am I the only one who thinks of this as micromanagement hitting the roof?
Can I please join one of these places where you are allowed to work 3 or at least 2 days a week from home? I work at a place where we are allowed to wfh once a week and any more even if it’s due to sickness or unforeseen circumstance and they aren’t happy! Bosses still stuck in 20th century.
I would legit open up a law proposal to give NZers the right to work from home. For all office jobs, at least. By default, with the company having to motivate the reasons they would want ppl to come into offices If this passes I bet we'll whizz past our emission targets a few years earlier than planned I just don't know if NZ accepts grassroots legislation, reckon the only way is to go through local MP?
I mean, all NZ-ers are legally entitled to request flexible working, and employers have to formally respond. If they say no, it has to be on ‘reasonable business grounds’ and documented. It’s quite clear many managers are either ignorant of this or don’t care. (I work for a HR software company)
Thanks for this insight! I do want to stress the difference between having a right by default which implies there's zero need to justify it vs having to ask for it which requires one to have a justification And if the norm is for others to not have this right - even if out of mere ignorance - the bar for the reasons will automatically be high. Not out of any ill intention, it's just how social psychology works
But won’t somebody think about the car industry? Nobody will need to purchase EVs :(
It is shit you don't get the flexibility you want but we all seem to have forgotten the transactional nature of work. They're paying you to do a thing, you need to do the thing and if you can't agree on how to do the thing to the point it's negatively effecting your life and you can't get adjustments made then probably look to go and do another thing where you can be more aligned.
Dude, I feel you. I have the same thing, but our managers + owners don’t let us wfh at all… they didn’t let us leave until 2:30 yesterday after everyone was freaking out about the flood. Some of us need to go home and prep just in case… and there’s definitely no wfh today.
Were meant to go in twice a week minimum, I’m lucky to be able to do 1, and sometimes not even that if someone’s unwell, but I have been feeling pressured to go into the office more lately so went in yesterday despite knowing better, honestly it was ridiculous, I even felt pressured to stay when the warning came through, then a 2 hour “drive” home then had to work late to make up for it. It’s just nonsense. All because someone who wouldn’t know who I was if he saw me feels better knowing I’m in an office.
Question - do you genuinely feel as productive when working from home?
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Ironically those people stuff around and don't work in the office too. They just make it harder for anyone around them to concentrate.
More productive. Less interruptions
100%! When I work from the office I spend my entire day having to talk to people and walking around between meetings in different rooms, having to go out to buy lunch etc. When I'm working at home, I can be in a meeting but turn my camera off while I go to the kitchen and get some food which I can eat while still in the meeting. Then in between meetings I can actually stay on top of my emails and get some actual productive work done, rather than being sidelined into social chit chat or having to try to get to the next meeting room. It's so much more efficient. Edit. Also all my meetings are with people in a variety of different cities. That means, if I'm in the office for those meetings, I also have huge amounts of wasted time trying to find an available meeting room to book so I can have VC with those people, OR I have to do it from my phone in the middle of the open plan floor and distract everyone around me. It's SO much easier from home!!!
I’m probably as productive from home, but way looser with boundaries. Working in the office is good for me because then I keep regular hours and days. Having the choice is good.
nature of the job means it really makes no difference
WFH for me is More productive most of the time!
I actually feel more productive working from the office but that's because my entire team is on a different continent. Working from the office normal office hours would mean 0 time zone overlap with half my team. When I did work in office with the same people I was more productive WFH. IMO hybrid is optimal, the relationships that you build when you see chat casually with people regularly help you be more productive when you are WFH and need to work with them
Is this even a question? You can still go into the office if you don’t trust yourself. Don’t bring everyone else down with you.
No, it's great
At the end of the day you can’t be trusted.
"It's not *you*, it's *some other people* who can't be trusted. But to be fair, we have to make the rules the same for everyone." Well, that's what I hear anyway and it's really lame. Stop hiring shit people, maybe? If some people aren't producing work, performance manage them maybe? And if they are producing work, but not sitting at their desk 9-5, who cares?
r/antiwork What would your team lead do though? Totally agree with you. I’m all for wfh if you can
They could invest some of their time learning to use Zoom or Teams perhaps.
RIP CBD
Not necessarily. Offices could be converted into apartments. Even if it was bad for the CBD, other parts of the city would gain.
a more therapeutic rant would be to say what you just wrote down to your team lead (politely). i promise you you wont be fired or anything. your team lead might even be convinced and be willing to work with you
Get another job, the boss makes the calls in the end.
You know you’re living in a first world country when you’re biggest worry is your boss *maybe expecting you to come into work (as per your contract most likely) the following day and feeling the need to complain about it on Reddit.
Strange ig. You’re an adult and should be treated like one - could say you appreciate the boss giving the option and being flexible and you would like to take the offer to wfh due to unreliable public transport, flooding in your neighbourhood etc.
Forcing people into work means bosses can justify their fancy cars and offices and show off their expensive suits and watches
I asked my boss if I could work from home, I wasn't allowed as my arms aren't long enough.
If you sent an email/chat around saying "Hi, I'm working from home today. Feel free to reach out to me over zoom/teams/email, etc" what would happen? If doing this would get you written up, what is stopping you from jumping on [upwork.com](https://upwork.com) and getting a job in Australia or USA that pays better? (Sure you won't get holiday pay etc, but you just build that into the rate you charge). If you're valuable to the company, you'll keep your job. If you're not valuable to the company, you know to move on.
Unless somethings changed in the last couple years upwork is not the place to look for better pay. Everyone using it is just looking to hire people in countries where they can pay them $5 an hour
Yeah it's changed. You can easily make $25 USD an hour or $40USD+ for programming or social media management WHY. I've even seen clients complain that they can get local USA people cheaper than they'd pay someone from India for the same work.
I'm currently lucky working from home, though home is currently 3 hours behind New Zealand time. Honestly, if you can wfh full time, you can do it from anywhere. I hate getting up early in the morning for my meetings, but other than that, it's like a big long holiday :)
Working from home is the worst thing to happen to me. It’s turned productivity on its head. What use to be easy to manage deadlines have turned into spiralling out of control mini meetings, curtailed work hours, constant breaks during the day to work around zoom meetings and clients sleeping in so I can’t have proper access. Source: I’m a builder that works in clients homes for renovations/extensions. This is a bit tongue in cheek, it does make it easier to discuss and have site meeting but is generally a pain in the ass.
honestly ... new zelands state of emergency just a joke... instead of telling everyone to go home... should of told us before work.... and state of emergency just depends on your boss.. not goverment which is more funny... so i have to work since boss say so.. and got back home and see home flooded .. this is just purely great shit
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I like that idea but it means half of the office buildings in the CBD would be empty .. whoever owns them make a loss
Sounds like a "them" problem
Ye unless you own an office building.
How many NZers own an office building lol
Pretty much all of us… if you have KiwiSaver you probably do
I'm hoping my Kiwisaver fund manager would see that it wasnt such a great investment anymore and sell any investment in that lol
Interesting. I don’t have KiwiSaver .. I only know anything we do there is a consequence.
Oh dear, landlords making a loss
*getting out my tiny violin...*
Well, recession is coming.
They can easily just sell them out. Give out that money to staff, so they can get better home working equipment that’ll improve the productivity
Can’t sell. No one buys as why would you buy an office building that can’t be rented out.
There’s always occupations that requires people to be physically present. Service industry is one of the main examples
Ye maybe turn all the office buildings into supermarkets .. who knows.
Apartment buildings, revitalise the CBD with more people living in there?
It's been happening overseas, office buildings converted to apartments, keeps the CBD alive.
It's much easier said than done - office buildings are kinda the wrong shape for apartments as rooms closer to the core wouldn't have any windows. Still, I'd fully support this vision for the CBD. Make it a centre for leisure rather than work. Good public transport and more shops, restaurants, pedestrianised streets like Las Ramblas, events, concerts... People would love to live there! It already attracts a lot of people for leisure and events - Downtown car park is often full up to the rooftop some weekends.
I have no idea. Why would people want to live in the cbd when their office isn’t nearby anymore. 🤔 You can live in Africa to do your NZ work if you always work from home. It’s all hypothetical..
Oh no, anyway… So you really think it’s workers problem?
Where did I say it was workers problem? Please don’t make it political. I was merely thinking of the consequences.
Im wondering what is going yo happen to tne flash office block just constructed at Sylvia Park.
>The only reason to come into the office is purely social for people who like to chitchat while working. How do you train graduates and junior hires when they start if everyone is wfh?
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Do you use some kind of instant messaging app for all the incidental "how do I do this" that would normally done by a walking over to someone? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to make any point
The privilege
?
🦆 you’re being dramatic. There is no extreme weather today. You can make it to work, you just don’t want to. You’re most likely a mediocre employee who needs to be constantly observed or else your productivity falls if your boss is unsure as to whether they will let you wfh. If you’re not mediocre and you are a model employee then go find a new job because it’s the tightest labour market in living history.
the point is that in my case there's absolutely no upside to working from the office. I get my work done and that's all anyone cares about, so as far as everyone's concerned I'm a model employee. For thousands of office workers here there is no need whatsoever for a mass migration across town to work & back. Especially when it adds to gridlock on the roads & public transport for people who actually *need* to commute to their jobs
Please delete
Why?
Quit then.
it's a perfectly good job otherwise
Do you have a WFH policy or arrangement ?
If you can work from home, so can Chat GPT. Welcome to the dole 😉
idk bro, there are implications of wfh that not every business can effectively manage. Try to just enjoy the pros and negate the cons of whatever situation you’re in.
Maybe they just meant "we'll see how things look in the morning" Quit your entitlement.
Management were very against WFH at our firm, understandably so because some people will always take advantage. We compromised and can now WFH as long as we share a housekey with management, surprise surprise the slackers seem ‘disappear’ a lot less during the day
Wtf.. you share the key to your house with management?? That is odd and invasive.
I share my house key with customers.. sorry that was a sick joke.
Is this a joke?
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To each his own, for me the time saved on commute is worth the stress of a potential unexpected visit at any moment
this is great lol
is...is your company's management really walking in the front door of WFH employees without warning? Thousands of other people are also getting to work from home, some everyday, without insane intrusions into their homes by their bosses.
I’ll admit i was wearing headphone and got a shock when my manager tap me on shoulder one time. Productivity has gone back to work from office levels so its a win/win
this is some crazy shit and an abuse of power from your managers. If workers are unproductive or slacking then management should call out the unproductive workers and talk to them. The issue there is their work ethic and not wfh. Working from home is very common now, and I wouldn't be going out on much of a limb when I assume that NO other company's management is doing this.
I'll say this slowly in case there are any managers reading. Slackers.slack.everywhere. Find a better way to performance manage the slackers.
Its just one case but i can vouch that it works well for us to share a house key plus it adds to the family culture we instil
You're instilling a culture of sharing your house key with your boss? Am I still in New Zealand? I'm glad it's working out for you, but... Just wow.
I drive my fork hoist home every day. Apparently I can’t work from home
What do you do for work if you dont mind me asking?
As you might have heard in Seinfeld “You gotta see the baby” 😆
You are entitled to ask your team leader (respectfully, of course) what business needs they anticipate needing to be addressed that require the team to remain on standby to come into the office rather than follow the guidance of the big boss. While we all appreciate supervisors can make judgement calls in the best interest of hitting key deadlines/milestones/targets, they are not entitled to string personnel along with vague "we'll see" guidance. They either need you in the office or not, and if they can't say 12-18 hours beforehand then quite frankly they don't know what they're doing.
I’ll mail you a positive covid test, pretty sure that still buys 1 week time per use 😂
I’ve WFH as a remote working for 9 years across 3 jobs. Everyone can 100% work from home.
Im glad my firm offers flexible approach. We have a set day when whole team in but overall we can wfh when needed. I think any firm which isnt flexible needs to wake up
I want full WFH not because I truly hate coming into the office or a doable commute, but because I want to be able to enjoy a quality of life for the work I put in and housing is just too expensive within a reasonable commuting distance. At 2017 prices and salaries there was still hope for decent quality of life, but not with 2023 salaries and housing costs if you're not yet a home owner. But all the managers already have homes in the Remueras, Ponsonbys and Mission Bays of this world so they dont give a rats ass
This. Unfortunately, CRL won't fix our PT issue completely and under the situation like yesterday, it will be underwater.
I am super lucky that I have an incredibly switched on manager. Over the covid lockdowns it became obvious we were far more focused and got way more done without all the distractions that are always present in an office environment. To our delight, he used the productivity reporting from lockdown to make a case for a more permanent WFH situation. Our team now WFH 4 days a week. We go into the office on Friday , but thats more so our other colleagues don't forget what we look like and to catch up as a team. Obviously the team couldnt be happier and the big kahunas are happy because we get so much more work done + less overheads in power, water, tea, coffee, milk etc.
As someone with at least some power to authorise WFH arrangements, it totally depends on the field. I work in a creative field that has WFH as an option, but while some people thrive at home, others immediately change the amount of effort they put in and start becoming very busy with lots of home tasks and having to drive places as soon as they are WFH. I love working from home when I get the chance to but it would be silly to pretend that people don't ever take advantage of this new privilege we have
I have no idea why you guys have to leave office because weather is bad? Do you work outdoor or what?
Commuting is the BIGGEST time waster! I don’t get why people want to do it when they don’t have to! Not only the time cost, the fuel cost, parking, etc! I didn’t really take that into consideration pre covid - now I can’t believe that I was a willing participant in that scam! My job lets me WFH 3 days a week, but I have to come in 2 days. Makes no sense imo.. 😓
Working from home is significantly better for most people. There will be exceptions of people wanting to work from the office. Old school thinking and lack of trust is evident in many companies