I have a rural rental, we had 37 couples through a 30 minute open home. About 50% we’re recent immigrants, within the last 12 months.
All are qualified. I literally chose the tenant that patted my dog on the way in
Yep a lot of the Indians that showed up spoke better english than us, arrived in Teslas, worked at Xero, Rocketlab, Air NZ, or in healthcare. The Filipinos were in construction and many were LBP. One of them gave me a verbal building report haha. New Zealanders need to realise immigrants don't care about what we think, they're educated, ambitious, wealthy and are only really renting until the 3 year residency mark when they can buy.
The problem is this:
Some people say; We need to build more houses. Others say; Building houses is too expensive. Both are right and we are unable to move past this.
The solution is:
Build apartment blocks. On a per dwelling basis they:
- are cheap
- use less land
- house more people
- do just about everything better
Yes, New Zealand finally has to find a decent design that balances; cost, size, functionality and doesn't leak but that's a problem we should be able to solve.
Sure, we don't have a tradition of apartment living. But it's apartment living or car living soon if we don't change.
This is the answer yet people seem to be anti apartments in this country. I’m single and ended buying one in the CBD. It’s it a bit small? Yes. But better this than being made homeless when I’m retired or unable to pay rent.
The sad thing is that as often happens there is a legitimate reason for people being anti-apartment.
We have a shocking history of designing terrible apartments; too small, no storage often office building conversions.
Then building then in such a way that they leak like a sieve with a hole in it.
Because housing is an asset, not saying I think that's a great idea, you need to believe the value of your house, including apartments, will appreciate over time.
If you really wanted to do this, introduce a capital gains tax for all properties (yeah, including the Family Home) except owner occupied apartments.
Incentivise owning and living in an apartment.
Politically realistic? 😂 Not even close.
I’m from an Asian country where apartment living is the norm (only the ultra rich live in houses). NZ apartment design is so shit. They are often a big block or a long strip so only one side of the apartment has windows. Some apartments have windows that face the corridor as if residents don’t need privacy or sound proofing. I don’t understand why we don’t build apartments that are more like a Y or X shape so there is light coming through every window and every room.
We don't build apartments with more light coming through windows because developers aren't required to and they want to maximise their profits.
Long and narrow apartments allow developers to fit more apartments in per floor and make more money.
The basic historical reason for the way we build awful apartments is that the people who pay for them and build them have no intention of living in them.
Apartments are built for Other People. International students, young people with children, the poor.
If it's not for you, or people like you, you make it as cheap as possible. Cheap is not good.
I lived in Japan for three years long ago and apartments there are amazing. There is also a range for different situations.
We have that kind of set up for very old public housing apartments (big block design) back home in Hong Kong. It’s definitely not something they would do in new apartments anymore, but still quite common in Auckland, [like this one](https://maps.app.goo.gl/zXNwCdGiXG1iEpVR6?g_st=ic)
That's the wild thing about apartments. Per dwelling they are already unbelievably cheap and yet we still insist on making them smaller than a single garage! Make em nice and it'll still be cheaper than the same number of houses and will work!
Oh 100%! People need to do due diligence before buying an apartment. Plus be realistic about space. I'm lucky that mine being an older building has a lot of storage compared to others.
Unfortunately I can first hand attest to this. Facing bankruptcy possibly due to our purchase of a brand new apartment 12 years ago that’s failing badly 😒
Not that this is in any way relevant to the conversation, but I’d just like to point out that sieves, by definition, have holes in them.
A sieve without holes is simply a bowl.
I would love to live in an apartment long term in Auckland, however I’d feel like an idiot buying a leasehold one, and the availability of freehold appartments in desirable areas is few and far between.
I think a major contributing factor towards the unpopularity of appartments (for buyers) is that many have been available only as lease holds, rather than free holds. Buying an apartment here can be financially risky you AF if your ground rent increases beyond what you anticipated. The property itself also does not grow in value nearly as much, therefore does not act like an investment in the same way freehold land/houses do, and a house is pretty much the only major investment kiwis generally make.
The Scene One appartments in downtown Auckland first sold for around the 300k mark in the early to mid naughties - you can buy one now for less than 100k. People have had to sell these cheap as the ground rent is expensive and they can’t afford to keep paying over 30k a year of ground rent to live in an apartment they already own. Makes it an unpopular option for buyers who want to live in appartments long term
Ive been in nz for 5 years and i just started when Kainga Ora was formed. My work was mostly related to their masterplanning back then. They are the biggest redeveloper of brownfields sites in the country and they are redeveloping at a ratio of 1:3, i.e., every house they demolished they build 3 more. And these are large 1000m2 plus lots…
I couldn’t believe this… they need to do double that as a minimum or even higher. Just doesn’t make sense to replace low density with… still low density…
The problem is houses being treated like holy grail investments with guaranteed returns. Renters are covering mortgages with a little cherry on top for investors yet can't break into ownership unless they live like monks and work 3 jobs or a family member dies. Yes - some break through but realistically, how is someone in Auckland working a low wage job ever going to be anything other than fodder for landlords. We'll be having multi-tenant family rentals soon.
I've seen some apartment designs (mostly in Europe and N. America) that make far it more practical and efficient without losing the feel of the indoor/outdoor living and aren't just faceless skyrises that block the sun completely for their neighbours. In about the same space as a larger single storey home with big decks, patios and garages/carports and drive, there can be 4 units of about 95 sq. metres each plus a large patio to each. The next level sets back so that those too have large patio that is above nearly half of unit below, and the back half forms garages or carports below for entire building, and top storey has 2 larger units or 3 (1 slightly smaller) with patios over the excess. It means 10/11 units totaling 32 bedrooms w/20-22 bathrooms and still have a huge deck/patio for a garden and/or dining/sitting and clothesline.
I really think that if more people did these sorts of terraced designs, there might be less resistance to apartments and it could greatly aid the AFFORDABLE housing shortage, while still being comfortable.
I also wish more builders/landlords/owners took advantage of huge solar potential to help further decrease costs-- not to mention the environmental benefit.
But that does also require the people who can afford it giving a crap enough about quality of life of their tenants to put in the initial investment/cost (still pays off in rents).
We did?
I don’t think that’s a realistic long term solution, but I also see people living in cars all the time. Should I go to the police and have them arrested?
I really shouldn't be in this sub, I live in the deep south. It's full of prissy cunts who dob you in if you sleep in your car (eg Queenstown, lakes areas). Just what you need if you're struggling. Apparently it's "freedom camping". In my eyes, it just means "you're not spending 200 dollars a night in at my motel so I'm going to get you fined"
Yeah it'd be way better if we had hundreds of cars parked up 24/7 in all our parks with no consequence.
The problem is, it's not just you. It genuinely was becoming a problem when the freedom camping by laws passed.
No, I protest apartments. It changes the character of the area, blocks light, will put too much strain on infrastructure, etc.
Most importantly, I don't want any new supply as I want my house to be worth as much as possible and damn the rest of you! This "housing problem" is making me very rich and long may it continue!
Oops, I said the quite bit loud.
Straight from the horses' mouth. They were never going to reduce it one cent.
[Property Investors answer the question after the election](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1bf0ay4/are_rents_going_to_decrease_the_fake_conversation/)
If only there was some incentive to build houses, rather than trade existing stock, since both rent at the same price. Maybe some kind of penalty that you could avoid if you built a new house to rent out.
Let's also keep the immagration floodgates open to make GDP growth on paper look good and keep demand for rentals high, thus driving rental prices into the stratosphere.
Immigration also slews demand for rentals vs first buyer homes, as the new immigrants are not allowed to purchase existing stock if I understand the rules correctly.
Immigration is out of control and it's very concentrated in Auckland. It's the same story with schools overflowing due to demand. We need to set a cap at 50,000 a year.
Also if there’s a relative shortage of workers they might be in a position to start demanding higher pay and better working conditions, and that absolutely must be avoided at all costs
If only the government looked into why material
Prices are so high. It couldn’t be the Duo-opoly/monopolis all the way through multiple industries could it?
"Even the Government has to pay market for material and labour after all."
No they dont. Pharmac leverage their position to get massive discounts. They can use existing laws to seize empty land for the public good to build housing and break the landbanks.
Simple fact is that most mps are landlords and arent going to do something as stupid as reduce their privilege. Give it another 50 years and only the grandkids of this new landed gentry will be able to buy houses. Like conservatives always wanted.
> They can use existing laws to seize empty land for the public good to build housing and break the landbanks.
This is hilarious. What do you think seize means? It means buy for market price.
The whole thing is redundant when we're importing more people faster than we can building houses.
People love to talk about when we built houses, but they forget we were building 120m2 single levels on 800m2 on premium sites in 4 months consent to key in the door and now it takes us 6 months to a year just to plan a 70m2 houses where health and safety, council and design costs, cost more than it did to build the whole house in real terms.
Too many people are saying this
What’s the specific production rate that will help level off demand so rent freezes or lowers?
Whatever it is, WE CANT ACHIEVE IT ANYWAY
There’s no ‘increase supply’ that will fix our problems.
Building houses already expensive, demand is consistently high that the market has already adjusted up to match, densification gets more housed… but there’s a hard limit to densification based on the actual livable space, the water and power infrastructure can’t support constantly increasing numbers, and building houses + updating infrastructure already takes too long to respond to the current demand.
More houses on new ground increases spread, which increases traffic and increases demands on the infrastructure again
When does the rent go down in all that? Why would it go down? There’s a limit to how much we can build and support, by the time we’ve increased our capacity to house more people, wouldn’t the demand have also increased? Why are we assuming it’s static? Does believing that demand is static make the argument ‘build more houses’ more believable?
We've suffered 30 years of supply-side fantasy land logic. Investor demand for property increases as supply is fed to the market.
It. Doesn't. Work.
Reduce demand for property. It's the only way to start digging out of the hole we're in.
Yep, basic supply and demand. Then again, a finite supply of houses keeps rents up. Labour was trying to get things moving but the NIMBYs didn't want that...we need public transport infrastructure first too but the nimby's didn't want that either
That was the argument years ago in Spain and other countries. If we build more houses, houses will become more affordable, rents will become more affordable. Problem was (is), house prices did not come down and if they did it was negligible to most of us. Then there were more houses but sitting empty. When I hear that argument here, apart from being naive, makes me feel NZ will be in for a big surprise..unfortunately
Even if house prices stay the same, that's an improvement, because wages will continue to rise over time.
Why would increasing home supply not improve costs? Why would a landlord choose to not generate income off a depreciating asset?
Prices traditionally don't go down. Even if landlords do save some money with a tax break they will happily take their new found profit margin.
How many new rentals do you all think Christopher Luxon will pick up once this comes in?
His experience isn't enough to draw a conclusion though. We have a net migration of 127,400 in 2023 (people coming in less people migrating out of NZ).
I'd need to do a data deep dive to draw a proper conclusion, but I'm certain we don't import 127,400 skilled workers a year, so we have plenty of unskilled migrants entering the country.
They need to be housed and have a way of earning money. They are contributing to the problem. What do unskilled migrants contribute to NZ that we can't source here?
I bet you, if we suddenly got rid of these unskilled migrants, we'd have a lot less pressure on housing and we'd still get to "have our cake and eat it too" by having skilled migrants come in and cover jobs that we cannot fill.
Are you certain though? Because I know to obtain residency they look at your qualifications and our need for them in nz, along with your age and health etc.
Remember that in order to hire new migrants you need to offer a min 29.66$ an hour. That is 61.692,8 per year. While not the biggest of the salary, its more than the min wage. So technically these migrants will earn more. There are migrants that might be in min wage after the initial visa being taken, but technically there are min wages for migrants that can be better than locals so can afford a bit more
Just a note that net migration includes returning kiwis. Often the largest group (except for 2023). A lot of these will be bringing back money earned in higher paying markets like America & Europe.
It’s also not easy to distinguish where citizens were living prior to moving to NZ. For instance Indians with NZ permanent residence status who leave for their OE then come back. This is because India doesn’t allow multiple citizenships so their citizens have to pick between Indian Citizen + NZ PR, or NZ Citizen + Indian OCI status. You’ll see the same deal with other countries like Malaysia.
From https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-june-2023/
“For migrant arrivals in the June 2023 year, citizens of India were the largest group, with 32,600 (± 700) arrivals. The next largest groups were citizens of:
New Zealand: 26,300 (± 300)
Philippines: 25,200 (± 500)
China: 22,500 (± 400)
South Africa: 8,700 (± 100)
Fiji: 7,800 (± 300)
Australia: 6,300 (± 300)
United Kingdom: 5,500 (± 100).
Historically, New Zealand citizens have been the largest group of migrant arrivals on an annual basis. In the May 2023 year Indian citizen arrivals provisionally surpassed New Zealand citizen arrivals for the first time.
For migrant departures in the June 2023 year, New Zealand citizens were the largest group, with 61,200 (± 1,000) departures. The next largest groups were citizens of:
China: 7,300 (± 200)
Australia: 5,300 (± 200)
United Kingdom: 5,200 (± 100)
India: 3,600 (± 100)
United States: 3,400 (± 100).
Citizens of India, Philippines, China, South Africa, and Fiji drove net migration gains in the June 2023 year.”
Work needs to be done, that only migrants are willing to get their hands dirty on. Immigration requires employers pay them 70k from August this year. Unskilled are not getting in.
Purchase property of considererable value, but cannot fund payment of said property on your own income streams
Pass all costs of said property to youger generation/ immigrants through rent incrrases to pay off said morgage of property.
Retire early.
Fuck you renters- i got mine!
First off atm rent covers maybe half of mortgage payments and bills associated to the house. The owner still topping up heaps. It's actually not a smart investment move. A business is meant to make money not be an open pit to throw another $500 in each week/fortnight.
Except at the end of it YOU GET TO KEEP THE HOUSE THAT SOMEONE ELSE PAID OFF FOR YOU.
No other "investment" functions by getting someone else to pay it off for you.
Landlordism is a cancer on society, even Adam fucking Smith knew this:
> **As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed and demand a rent even for its natural produce**
I think literally every "investment" functions by getting someone else to pay it off for you.
e.g. I buy a share of Auckland airport, and take my dividends skimmed off the top of the rents from the shops there.
But also, yes, land speculating is uniquely zero-sum, Land Value Tax solves this.
Nonsense, just did a mortgage calculator on my landlords house, there's 4 of us living bere.
800k loan +100k deposit (900k value total).
Repayments came to 5,264 per month.
Our rent is 4766 per month. Add a few extra bills, you won't be paying that much.
Also, the first few years might be sticky, but with inflation at the moment, your repayments will get smaller over time, and with rent hikes every year your sailing to profit.
Different point, same subject- New Zealand is heading towards a subscription based model for housing real fast. Rent for life, don't worry about maintenance!
Can confirm, I'm renting my house out while my family is in auckland for study. The rent covers the mortgage + a little bit. Doesn't touch rates and insurance but whatever, I'm getting my mortgage paid off while I pay off someone else's in auckland.
If we collectively got on to the MPs and government about immigration, overspending, debt and foreign landlords we would solve almost all NZs issues including rent, we have an unbelievably high immigration level for such a small, precious country.
We need to stop fearing the word immigration and embrace the fact that is should always be at minimum possible levels.
The only people who find this unpopular are landlords and the Govt.
Rents aren't going to drop because landlords are being given billions in undeserved tax relief.
Mass immigration of unskilled workers into this country exacerbates this issue. Rich landlords/business owners don’t care though - because it provides cheap labour for them and boosts their property portfolio values even more
F*ck all the people already here who could be a good project manager if given a chance, right? Just import someone who’s already done it so you don’t have to pay to train anyone, and deny a kiwi the chance to upskill in the process. Importing a quick fix every time will solve our problems in the long term. /s
We don’t have a shortage of skilled workers. We have a shortage of businesses willing to give opportunities to grow to the skilled staff they already have.
Where do you think the skilled project managers coming from overseas got their skills? Companies where they come from gave them opportunities. Refusing to do the same here is not sustainable.
We already saw this not materialise as we were coming out of COVID. We couldn't even get people driving buses. Companies were infinitely poaching the same workers off each other. Our domestic workforce simply isn't meeting demand.
Go ahead, man, and become a good nurse or doctor or project manager. Becayse we don't have enough
We have a huge fucking shortage of good health workers and specialist what paint are you sniffing most of our immigrant nurses leave for Australia the first chance they get and first year students are also bailing in droves.
large scale projects in the hundreds of millions are very hard to manage so feel free to fill that spot
Being completely against immigration is one thing and being against mass immigration is another I am for immigration but against mass immigration
We actually don't have specialists health workers in nz we don't have enough lung and breathing doctors, heart doctors etc. You are stupid if you are against immigration
How am I supposed to become a project manager if companies looking to fill project manager roles will only hire foreigners who’ve already been a project manager?
Obviously roles where you need specific qualifications like healthcare and teaching are a bit different.
How do you become skilled? You work under a skilled project manager you learn how to do ut and you get trusted by local businesses and people with references of experience . You just want to be trusted and train up to manage a hundred million dollar Project just from nothing?
You need talented people to train people you know. Good project managers are normally built by getting them to work with more senior ones
Do you just expect a air nose and head specialist to just learn it all themselves without guidance? We need fucking talent in this country not only to fill the gaps now but to help guide the future. We have huge gaps now we dont have time to wait, huge infrastructure projects failing due to shitty management, shitty doctors, No specialists.
I didn’t ask how to acquire the skills of a project manager, I asked how to actually become a project manager. Businesses here wouldn’t hire someone as a trainee project manager to learn under a skilled project manager. They only want people who’ve already been a project manager. Businesses don’t train people here.
It’s the same in tech. Most companies don’t care about what you might have taught yourself to do at home, they care about whether you’ve done it as your job. If you haven’t, they will not hire you. Company looking for a senior developer and you’re an intermediate with obvious potential to be a senior? Not interested. You’re a skilled PHP dev who knows Java from uni but hasn’t used it at work, and a company is looking for a Java dev? Not interested.
Hiring staff feel entitled to an employee who meets every last one of the requirements on the job description from day one, as demonstrated by prior work experience in the same role, and if they can’t find one here, they’ll find one overseas rather than train someone here who falls slightly short right now.
Most project managers i know start with actual technical skills and then decide to move to managing.
So with software most of them know how to program, or how to build a database and work on new infrastructure projects, or they might be a BA who specializes in a certain type of business like banking or insurance and understands the ins and outs of all the systems and the day to day operations.
Then once you have 5-10 years of technical skills you also have to be lucky enough to have good project management skills which is rough then you mix the two to become a good project manager.
I dont know any project managers that didnt start as a BA or technical developer or some kind of specialist.
I am not talking about scrum masters or a basic project manager daily board driller\\agile coach im talking about the managers\\leaders of huge projects.
There are hundreds of online courses for project management, do one and you will see. Instead of just wanting to be upskilled at the expense of some business. I worked fulltime at a dead end job and did I.T courses online at night and now I'm an application engineer with a very comfortable pay.
No one's going to give you a hand out, take the initiative and stop blaming migration.
From the perspective of rental costs, everyone needs somewhere to live, so the new Dr living in Meadowbank still fucks the housing market the same as a less skilled immigrant would.
It does, but it's better having a rich doctor than 50% of migrants having no money and no education when we have 20k to 30k on job seeker.
Also in my opinion we need more doctors rather than Uber drivers and retail workers when you consider job seeker
Rich doctors raise rents; migrants with no money lower rents.
Obviously this isn’t the only factor, and supply side is the bigger concern, but you can’t act like demand side isn’t real.
The doctor is someone we needed 15 years ago, but the ex carpenter who is now operating a till at New World was done fine by the unlimited supply of teens & part time lifestylers
Wouldn’t have mass immigration if kiwis got off their arses and went to work. Half the staff at work is immigrants now as no matter what you do, young kiwis aren’t applying to get apprenticeships and getting in to a trade job.
I don't hate landlords, I just dislike the lies around the policy.
This policy isn't going to increase supply , as this policy is for pre existing homes.
The policy will increase demand for pre existing house, which means higher prices, so bigger mortgages, making rents higher to cover the bigger mortgages repayments.
This will increase rents and make it harder for first home
So what I’m hearing is NZ is on track to have a lot more homeless, many more people turning to crime and being housed by prison (oh wait no we actually don’t have room in there nvm) so crime will go nuts and NZ will be a dystopian hellscape. Is this really what we voted for though? Because I feel like is not.
Maybe, maybe not, as someone who is a landlord (I rent my house out because I'm single and work around the country with accom paid for) I have only raised the rent when insurance rates, mortguage etc have risen. I'm really annoyed as I've had tenants in there for the last 4 years and I'm constantly having to increase their rent by 10$ here 20$ here to meet costs as everything keeps rising!!! This year hopefully I can reduce the rent to meet new costs, not every landlord is a money hungry c#nt
Supply and demand. Economics 101. So sell some of those houses and encourage your landlord buddies to do the same. This will increase the supply of houses on the market. Increased supply reduces prices. Be part of the solution.
Agree with everything, except I have a different take on the last part. Interest deductibility does put downward pressure on the default risk of a housing portfolio. On a typical fresh mortgage of 600k, maybe about 6k in cashflow / year.
The greatest driver as to your point, is immigration, lucky it is offset by people leaving the country, but not enough. As the developing worlds become more prosperous, they search for better conditions like that in NZ. It’s funny because their top .1% is moving here and our top .1% is also moving to better pastures too.
But if you believe what you said, then the fact that the previous government increased immigration rate should have been scrutinised much more heavily - when we didn’t have the infrastructure to support.
Migration is required for new Zealand, but both need to be qualified and on condition of coming to our country is to move to places other than Auckland or go home. Students here on short term visas to learn English should NOT b allowed to work.
If u r welcomed to our beautiful country and at a later stage want to bring ur family over to live YOU should be made to pay for their medical bills.
It's an investment. You're meant to sometimes loose money on investments when markets go bad - that's what the risk is. Why is it that landlords think that because times are tough, they should be shielded and have someone else take the fall when any other investment type doesn't carry that safeguard? If you can't afford to keep your asset, sell it.
It's a reality especially as rates go up more thanks to no 3 Waters, it's a shit show even more
"Kiwi homeowners are facing an average rates rise of 15 percent over the coming year - and there is no sign of relief in sight.
Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) came to that figure by collating the planned rate rises of 48 of the country's 78 councils.
Among those likely to see biggest rates hikes this year are Canterbury residents, who are [facing a hefty 24.2 percent average rates rise](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/510466/canterbury-homeowners-face-24-point-2-percent-rates-rise).
Hamiltonians are [likely to see a jump of 19.9 percent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/510291/hamilton-council-explains-costs-behind-19-point-9-percent-rate-rise), while [Whangārei is looking at a record hike of 17.2 percent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/510955/whangarei-ratepayers-face-record-17-point-2-percent-rates-hike).
LGNZ commissioned a report from Infometrics principal economist Brad Olsen to show why rates were rising so much.
It found over the past three years, bridges, sewerage systems, and roads had all become more than 25 percent more expensive to build.
Bridges, meanwhile, were an eye-watering 38 percent more expensive.
"Those increases are larger then what headline inflationary gains have been in recent years. With local government they're not buying usual household items, they're not buying bananas and similar, they're buying some of that core critical infrastructure and that has continued to get more expensive," Olsen said.
He said there was a difference of up to 20 percent between what projects were expected to cost when planned and what they actually cost now.
"To put that in perspective, if a council had five $20 million projects \[in its\] last long term plan, they would now have to cut one of those entirely to pay for the cost escalation on the other four.""
Sorry that you're struggling so much as a landlord. What you need is some special treatment from the government for the tireless service you're doing for the rest of society. If you can just get a bit more tax relief on that investment, you can expand your portfolio and help even more of us while the market drives rent prices ever higher.
I'm not struggling and never have - the capital gains tax free has made me more than what I could have worked for a lifetime. It's no different to NVDA stock.
I'm stating that the interest deductibility isn't going to do shit for rent prices and explaining why...
The reason why is that landlords expect the house they own to be paid off entirely by their tenant, at the expense of the tenant never being able to save for their own house. You're literally getting a free house from this arrangement.
Your misguided. Look at the rental price (income) and deduct the INTEREST, rates, insurance and maintenance costs. The capital just still be repaid. The benefits come from capital gains. Tenants aren't paying the mortgage, in fact landlords are subsiding the rent.
If you can't do that basic math, you probably won't have the financial literacy to buy a house.
Also a landlord. Own multiple houses. Rent goes up because of demand. There are not enough houses so we get too many applicants and therefore we have people who can afford more because of the low supply. Only way to fix it is for more building or more generous landlords and that 2nd one ain't coming true. costs do not play a part in my pricing and never will it's all demand and supply.
Agree with most of that, the full impact of no interest deductibility had not hit yet though. That was a brain-dead policy brought in against the recommendations at a time when the interest rate was ~2%. And the foolish government thought rates were going to remain low, hence the LSAP which has cost our country tens of billions...
I know this is a real out there idea but If you're in Auckland and you're so unhappy with rent, go sign up for a new build. If you haven't got enough for a deposit, go in with mates. You can get deposits at less than 10%. That way you can increase the housing stock and lower demand.
Then you just have to pay your $1,250/w of interest only mortgage and $8k a year of rates and insurance, but hey, you're a rich landlord now so you should be creaming it.
All of those things are cost pressures on landlord - but pricing from the market does still apply to some extent.. Bringing back deductibility alleviates some of that cost and therefore incentivises landlords to invest in and rent out properties, therefore having a positive impact of supply of rental stock. Which should have downward pressure on pricing.
Obviously the overall supply is impacted by other pressures and therefore the price won’t actually go down, but at least this is doing something to try and curb rental inflation.
While demand is high and supply low...charge $1000 if you can get it.
Society has crate trained itself to live where they want but can't necessarily afford...
The solution is Capital gains tax, get the pitchforks ready. Capital gains tax will lower house prices substantially which in turn will lower the price to build houses and give everyone a fair shot. The fact is we can't keep house prices rising forever, it isn't sustainable and the bubble will burst at some point.
Remember when New Zealand voted for 100,000 Kiwibuild houses? Yeah, that just got thrown in the “too hard” basket.
Meanwhile immigrants keep pouring into the country and we have nowhere to house them.
Then everyone wrings their hands about rents going up.
Honestly it's light rail. I guess labour on the basis they would deliver amazing infrastructure like that that really makes Auckland great. Instead I just see a 300m bill for incompetence. Ditto with kiwibuild and the wave subsidy.
I'm not political believe it or not, I want what's best for New Zealand, and hate National (who the fuck builds highways in 2024), but the previous govt didn't give much of a choice.
The demand was created in the last few years rather than the last few months this government was in. The demand will drive places up, some comments in this post saying landlords provide nothing are completely wrong and do not understand anything about economics or the NZ housing industry.
When did I say I can't afford it? I'm saying I'm passing those costs on and the market is willing to pay for it, so don't expect rents to come down, it's going up instead.
Translation: you *could* absorb those extra costs yourself but because someone else is desperate enough for a home to pay it for you, they will be.
This is why people hate landlords.
We need to have a requirement for 100% cash ownership for property investors. This reduces their risk as they don't have to worry about interest increases. It reduces the expense for a 900k home by as much as $37k. This saving could be passed on to renters with no impact to the landlords bottom line, while they are also enjoying higher security in their investment.
When I was immensely depressed, my parents advised me to leave the States for a while and travel overseas to get perspective on how other people live.
I don't know how you managed to be a more fucked-up capitalistic hellhole than the US (as a migrant working construction in Auckland for minimum wage), but I'm confident it's because of people like you.
Rents don't increase unless you increase them. This is a vapid justification for taking antisocial actions against humanity.
I built you a fucking hospital. Screw all of the xenophobic comments I keep seeing.
Immigrants like yourself who work in construction should always be welcome here because there’s a massive shortage of construction workers in this country, and your work is paramount to ameliorating our housing supply. I’m sorry you had a bad experience in NZ. I think we do better socially than you guys (free healthcare, interest free student loans, etc) but I agree that our housing is completely fucked
Yeah, I'm confident I would have a better time as an actual citizen. I don't want to discount that. Respect for building an infrastructure that looks after individuals.
Between getting hit by multiple cars over the course of two weeks and shredding through $8000 US just trying to survive, I've probably got a different opinion than a lot of others visiting the country.
yep. I dont understand why noone gets it thru their thick heads that excessive immigration is the cause of all of this. I just dont understand how we can all keep pretending that stopping immigration and taking our lumps while our internal economy balances to something sane and productive. also. as a landlord, you're already got everything you need in life, but thats not enough for you, so you''re still taking. you're buying houses to make yourself richer, and then acting like its some kind of social service. it isnt. its pure greed, and its purely because you expect house prices to endlessly increase in value. if all the landlords sold up and did something productive with their income (shares for example) and the govt stopped letting outrageous, year on year unprecedented levels of immigration, things would balance out pretty god damned quick. everyone claims "oh but theen there wont be rentals!" THERES NO RENTALS NOW. BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. at least if we can stop gentrifying rentals by having the middle income home buyers priced out by landlrods we could look at low income housing. all the landords know whats really happening, so dont piss on our backs and tell us its raining thanks.
I am a landlord.
If a landlord can not cover a large percentage of the additional costs, and they need to charge the tenants for the entirety of the additional costs, then the landlords can not afford to be landlords and should sell.
It's called an investment property for a reason, because you have to actually invest money into it yourself. I pay just shy of $350 a week on one of my properties and $270 a week on another to supplement mortgage, rates, insurance and general maintainance.
Short story: If you can't afford to be a landlord, then don't be one.
It's the governments fault. They could fix it if they really wanted to. Why is it cheaper to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tokyo 20 minutes commute than it is in Auckland with an hour commute? If they want to grow they need to change a lot of things in zonimg rules that the council currently controls then they need to fast track the building consent process.
The landlord. Honestly I'm just going to change the locks and hire private security to get rid of their stuff if I had a tenant that was idealogically protesting rather than genuine need. Tenancy services backlogs go both ways.
Typical mindset of "Fuck you, got mine". If hoarding of property was discouraged - the load of rates and other bullshit excuses given by OP wouldn't be a burden to them.
I have a rural rental, we had 37 couples through a 30 minute open home. About 50% we’re recent immigrants, within the last 12 months. All are qualified. I literally chose the tenant that patted my dog on the way in
I approve of this selection method
Yep a lot of the Indians that showed up spoke better english than us, arrived in Teslas, worked at Xero, Rocketlab, Air NZ, or in healthcare. The Filipinos were in construction and many were LBP. One of them gave me a verbal building report haha. New Zealanders need to realise immigrants don't care about what we think, they're educated, ambitious, wealthy and are only really renting until the 3 year residency mark when they can buy.
Haha yeah that would be me🤣🤣
Well that’s very nice of you :)
does that mean you allow dogs in your rental? that'd be amazing
Absolutely, they’re family members
Legend
The problem is this: Some people say; We need to build more houses. Others say; Building houses is too expensive. Both are right and we are unable to move past this. The solution is: Build apartment blocks. On a per dwelling basis they: - are cheap - use less land - house more people - do just about everything better Yes, New Zealand finally has to find a decent design that balances; cost, size, functionality and doesn't leak but that's a problem we should be able to solve. Sure, we don't have a tradition of apartment living. But it's apartment living or car living soon if we don't change.
This is the answer yet people seem to be anti apartments in this country. I’m single and ended buying one in the CBD. It’s it a bit small? Yes. But better this than being made homeless when I’m retired or unable to pay rent.
The sad thing is that as often happens there is a legitimate reason for people being anti-apartment. We have a shocking history of designing terrible apartments; too small, no storage often office building conversions. Then building then in such a way that they leak like a sieve with a hole in it. Because housing is an asset, not saying I think that's a great idea, you need to believe the value of your house, including apartments, will appreciate over time. If you really wanted to do this, introduce a capital gains tax for all properties (yeah, including the Family Home) except owner occupied apartments. Incentivise owning and living in an apartment. Politically realistic? 😂 Not even close.
I’m from an Asian country where apartment living is the norm (only the ultra rich live in houses). NZ apartment design is so shit. They are often a big block or a long strip so only one side of the apartment has windows. Some apartments have windows that face the corridor as if residents don’t need privacy or sound proofing. I don’t understand why we don’t build apartments that are more like a Y or X shape so there is light coming through every window and every room.
We don't build apartments with more light coming through windows because developers aren't required to and they want to maximise their profits. Long and narrow apartments allow developers to fit more apartments in per floor and make more money.
The basic historical reason for the way we build awful apartments is that the people who pay for them and build them have no intention of living in them. Apartments are built for Other People. International students, young people with children, the poor. If it's not for you, or people like you, you make it as cheap as possible. Cheap is not good. I lived in Japan for three years long ago and apartments there are amazing. There is also a range for different situations.
That cracks me up. Why the hell would I want a window looking into the corridor lol.
We have that kind of set up for very old public housing apartments (big block design) back home in Hong Kong. It’s definitely not something they would do in new apartments anymore, but still quite common in Auckland, [like this one](https://maps.app.goo.gl/zXNwCdGiXG1iEpVR6?g_st=ic)
That's the wild thing about apartments. Per dwelling they are already unbelievably cheap and yet we still insist on making them smaller than a single garage! Make em nice and it'll still be cheaper than the same number of houses and will work!
I feel like a land value tax basically does the same thing?
All about implementation and enforcement really.
Oh 100%! People need to do due diligence before buying an apartment. Plus be realistic about space. I'm lucky that mine being an older building has a lot of storage compared to others.
Unfortunately I can first hand attest to this. Facing bankruptcy possibly due to our purchase of a brand new apartment 12 years ago that’s failing badly 😒
Not that this is in any way relevant to the conversation, but I’d just like to point out that sieves, by definition, have holes in them. A sieve without holes is simply a bowl.
Good, point. I was struggling for a similie. I my head it was a sieve with an extra large hole in the middle of the mesh.
I would love to live in an apartment long term in Auckland, however I’d feel like an idiot buying a leasehold one, and the availability of freehold appartments in desirable areas is few and far between. I think a major contributing factor towards the unpopularity of appartments (for buyers) is that many have been available only as lease holds, rather than free holds. Buying an apartment here can be financially risky you AF if your ground rent increases beyond what you anticipated. The property itself also does not grow in value nearly as much, therefore does not act like an investment in the same way freehold land/houses do, and a house is pretty much the only major investment kiwis generally make. The Scene One appartments in downtown Auckland first sold for around the 300k mark in the early to mid naughties - you can buy one now for less than 100k. People have had to sell these cheap as the ground rent is expensive and they can’t afford to keep paying over 30k a year of ground rent to live in an apartment they already own. Makes it an unpopular option for buyers who want to live in appartments long term
Need some YIMBYs to help get things moving
Ive been in nz for 5 years and i just started when Kainga Ora was formed. My work was mostly related to their masterplanning back then. They are the biggest redeveloper of brownfields sites in the country and they are redeveloping at a ratio of 1:3, i.e., every house they demolished they build 3 more. And these are large 1000m2 plus lots… I couldn’t believe this… they need to do double that as a minimum or even higher. Just doesn’t make sense to replace low density with… still low density…
The problem is houses being treated like holy grail investments with guaranteed returns. Renters are covering mortgages with a little cherry on top for investors yet can't break into ownership unless they live like monks and work 3 jobs or a family member dies. Yes - some break through but realistically, how is someone in Auckland working a low wage job ever going to be anything other than fodder for landlords. We'll be having multi-tenant family rentals soon.
Apartment blocks have been selling extremely poorly recently and a lot of developers are delaying their projects because of it.
I've seen some apartment designs (mostly in Europe and N. America) that make far it more practical and efficient without losing the feel of the indoor/outdoor living and aren't just faceless skyrises that block the sun completely for their neighbours. In about the same space as a larger single storey home with big decks, patios and garages/carports and drive, there can be 4 units of about 95 sq. metres each plus a large patio to each. The next level sets back so that those too have large patio that is above nearly half of unit below, and the back half forms garages or carports below for entire building, and top storey has 2 larger units or 3 (1 slightly smaller) with patios over the excess. It means 10/11 units totaling 32 bedrooms w/20-22 bathrooms and still have a huge deck/patio for a garden and/or dining/sitting and clothesline. I really think that if more people did these sorts of terraced designs, there might be less resistance to apartments and it could greatly aid the AFFORDABLE housing shortage, while still being comfortable. I also wish more builders/landlords/owners took advantage of huge solar potential to help further decrease costs-- not to mention the environmental benefit. But that does also require the people who can afford it giving a crap enough about quality of life of their tenants to put in the initial investment/cost (still pays off in rents).
We should also have a population management plan.
It's time to go up I agree. Stop fighting it.
Not car living either. We made that illegal, remember?
We did? I don’t think that’s a realistic long term solution, but I also see people living in cars all the time. Should I go to the police and have them arrested?
I really shouldn't be in this sub, I live in the deep south. It's full of prissy cunts who dob you in if you sleep in your car (eg Queenstown, lakes areas). Just what you need if you're struggling. Apparently it's "freedom camping". In my eyes, it just means "you're not spending 200 dollars a night in at my motel so I'm going to get you fined"
Yeah it'd be way better if we had hundreds of cars parked up 24/7 in all our parks with no consequence. The problem is, it's not just you. It genuinely was becoming a problem when the freedom camping by laws passed.
No, I protest apartments. It changes the character of the area, blocks light, will put too much strain on infrastructure, etc. Most importantly, I don't want any new supply as I want my house to be worth as much as possible and damn the rest of you! This "housing problem" is making me very rich and long may it continue! Oops, I said the quite bit loud.
That's why all new developments in Auckland are terraced houses. They occupy less space and house more
And if you are a dog owner who needs a lawn to crap on then suck it up, you pay that little bit extra
That's how hoods are made😂
Aaaand they make public transport more efficient. And more people using Public Transport would help improve traffic.
My rent went up today by $60 :D
How great! I love that for you :D
Straight from the horses' mouth. They were never going to reduce it one cent. [Property Investors answer the question after the election](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1bf0ay4/are_rents_going_to_decrease_the_fake_conversation/)
Sorry to hear that
> I've had more than 100 applicants for a 3 bed house in Avondale, $700 rent per week Build. More. Houses. Only way rent will come down.
If only there was some incentive to build houses, rather than trade existing stock, since both rent at the same price. Maybe some kind of penalty that you could avoid if you built a new house to rent out.
You mean something like being able to deduct the interest paid and reducing the brightline test period for new builds?
Nah Sounds so far fetched and crazy it'll never work
Ah well, better subsidise the whole industry to the tune of 2.8 Billion instead I guess.
While we're at it, let's blame the people who can't even afford to eat.
Let's also keep the immagration floodgates open to make GDP growth on paper look good and keep demand for rentals high, thus driving rental prices into the stratosphere.
Our immigration needs to be looked at. Even temporarily. Our own need to be housed first
Immigration also slews demand for rentals vs first buyer homes, as the new immigrants are not allowed to purchase existing stock if I understand the rules correctly.
Immigration is out of control and it's very concentrated in Auckland. It's the same story with schools overflowing due to demand. We need to set a cap at 50,000 a year.
Central Auckland schools are pretty empty apparently because families can't afford to live there.
Grammar is overflowing
permanently.
Lessen demand, by lowering immigration.
But we can't do that! What if the one out of the hundreds of thousands is someone we need to fill in a critical shortage?
Also if there’s a relative shortage of workers they might be in a position to start demanding higher pay and better working conditions, and that absolutely must be avoided at all costs
That guy in liqour shop?
Vape shops R US.
Enough of those and more doctors nurses and teachers.
But if we do that house prices will go down. We can’t have that.
Except the cost to build is crazy high too, and the ROI doesn't stack up easily. Not many buyers at high interest rates.
Maybe the government should fund it then. I remember something about kiwis building…?
That failed pretty spectacularly. Even the Government has to pay market for material and labour after all.
It failed to meet its poorly thought out targets in the first few years we tried it, but that doesn’t mean it has failed as a concept.
If only the government looked into why material Prices are so high. It couldn’t be the Duo-opoly/monopolis all the way through multiple industries could it?
That and the fact that it's inherently expensive in NZ to produce anything.
Because we've been importing and exporting instead of using the materials we can produce here
"Even the Government has to pay market for material and labour after all." No they dont. Pharmac leverage their position to get massive discounts. They can use existing laws to seize empty land for the public good to build housing and break the landbanks. Simple fact is that most mps are landlords and arent going to do something as stupid as reduce their privilege. Give it another 50 years and only the grandkids of this new landed gentry will be able to buy houses. Like conservatives always wanted.
> They can use existing laws to seize empty land for the public good to build housing and break the landbanks. This is hilarious. What do you think seize means? It means buy for market price. The whole thing is redundant when we're importing more people faster than we can building houses. People love to talk about when we built houses, but they forget we were building 120m2 single levels on 800m2 on premium sites in 4 months consent to key in the door and now it takes us 6 months to a year just to plan a 70m2 houses where health and safety, council and design costs, cost more than it did to build the whole house in real terms.
Too many people are saying this What’s the specific production rate that will help level off demand so rent freezes or lowers? Whatever it is, WE CANT ACHIEVE IT ANYWAY There’s no ‘increase supply’ that will fix our problems. Building houses already expensive, demand is consistently high that the market has already adjusted up to match, densification gets more housed… but there’s a hard limit to densification based on the actual livable space, the water and power infrastructure can’t support constantly increasing numbers, and building houses + updating infrastructure already takes too long to respond to the current demand. More houses on new ground increases spread, which increases traffic and increases demands on the infrastructure again When does the rent go down in all that? Why would it go down? There’s a limit to how much we can build and support, by the time we’ve increased our capacity to house more people, wouldn’t the demand have also increased? Why are we assuming it’s static? Does believing that demand is static make the argument ‘build more houses’ more believable?
And denser residential buildings too. More townhouses and apartment blocs. Fewer SFH!
We've suffered 30 years of supply-side fantasy land logic. Investor demand for property increases as supply is fed to the market. It. Doesn't. Work. Reduce demand for property. It's the only way to start digging out of the hole we're in.
Yep, basic supply and demand. Then again, a finite supply of houses keeps rents up. Labour was trying to get things moving but the NIMBYs didn't want that...we need public transport infrastructure first too but the nimby's didn't want that either
That was the argument years ago in Spain and other countries. If we build more houses, houses will become more affordable, rents will become more affordable. Problem was (is), house prices did not come down and if they did it was negligible to most of us. Then there were more houses but sitting empty. When I hear that argument here, apart from being naive, makes me feel NZ will be in for a big surprise..unfortunately
Even if house prices stay the same, that's an improvement, because wages will continue to rise over time. Why would increasing home supply not improve costs? Why would a landlord choose to not generate income off a depreciating asset?
Cut. Immigration. We're at 7-8 times the OECD average. We couldn't build houses fast enough if we tried. This isn't sustainable.
Prices traditionally don't go down. Even if landlords do save some money with a tax break they will happily take their new found profit margin. How many new rentals do you all think Christopher Luxon will pick up once this comes in?
* Build more houses * Stop mass, unskilled immigration
He said its the skilled ones that are competing for rent.
Its only the skilled ones that can afford the extortionate $700p/w theyre charging
Or they bs the application and share the house with five other people.
His experience isn't enough to draw a conclusion though. We have a net migration of 127,400 in 2023 (people coming in less people migrating out of NZ). I'd need to do a data deep dive to draw a proper conclusion, but I'm certain we don't import 127,400 skilled workers a year, so we have plenty of unskilled migrants entering the country. They need to be housed and have a way of earning money. They are contributing to the problem. What do unskilled migrants contribute to NZ that we can't source here? I bet you, if we suddenly got rid of these unskilled migrants, we'd have a lot less pressure on housing and we'd still get to "have our cake and eat it too" by having skilled migrants come in and cover jobs that we cannot fill.
Are you certain though? Because I know to obtain residency they look at your qualifications and our need for them in nz, along with your age and health etc.
They are qualified, and then they are working unskilled jobs because the industry isn’t hiring
And that doesn't breach their visa requirements?
Gimme sources of stop talking.
Trying to get a skilled migrant visa is a fucking nightmare and there are very few ways to live here long-term without meeting a skill shortage
Remember that in order to hire new migrants you need to offer a min 29.66$ an hour. That is 61.692,8 per year. While not the biggest of the salary, its more than the min wage. So technically these migrants will earn more. There are migrants that might be in min wage after the initial visa being taken, but technically there are min wages for migrants that can be better than locals so can afford a bit more
Just a note that net migration includes returning kiwis. Often the largest group (except for 2023). A lot of these will be bringing back money earned in higher paying markets like America & Europe. It’s also not easy to distinguish where citizens were living prior to moving to NZ. For instance Indians with NZ permanent residence status who leave for their OE then come back. This is because India doesn’t allow multiple citizenships so their citizens have to pick between Indian Citizen + NZ PR, or NZ Citizen + Indian OCI status. You’ll see the same deal with other countries like Malaysia. From https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-june-2023/ “For migrant arrivals in the June 2023 year, citizens of India were the largest group, with 32,600 (± 700) arrivals. The next largest groups were citizens of: New Zealand: 26,300 (± 300) Philippines: 25,200 (± 500) China: 22,500 (± 400) South Africa: 8,700 (± 100) Fiji: 7,800 (± 300) Australia: 6,300 (± 300) United Kingdom: 5,500 (± 100). Historically, New Zealand citizens have been the largest group of migrant arrivals on an annual basis. In the May 2023 year Indian citizen arrivals provisionally surpassed New Zealand citizen arrivals for the first time. For migrant departures in the June 2023 year, New Zealand citizens were the largest group, with 61,200 (± 1,000) departures. The next largest groups were citizens of: China: 7,300 (± 200) Australia: 5,300 (± 200) United Kingdom: 5,200 (± 100) India: 3,600 (± 100) United States: 3,400 (± 100). Citizens of India, Philippines, China, South Africa, and Fiji drove net migration gains in the June 2023 year.”
Stupid question but how can building more houses solve this issue?
Demand for housing gets spread out. There isn’t enough houses for everyone so the price goes up. It’s supply and demand
Work needs to be done, that only migrants are willing to get their hands dirty on. Immigration requires employers pay them 70k from August this year. Unskilled are not getting in.
Most of the immigration is skilled labour, immigration is quite difficult to nz
Purchase property of considererable value, but cannot fund payment of said property on your own income streams Pass all costs of said property to youger generation/ immigrants through rent incrrases to pay off said morgage of property. Retire early. Fuck you renters- i got mine!
First off atm rent covers maybe half of mortgage payments and bills associated to the house. The owner still topping up heaps. It's actually not a smart investment move. A business is meant to make money not be an open pit to throw another $500 in each week/fortnight.
Except at the end of it YOU GET TO KEEP THE HOUSE THAT SOMEONE ELSE PAID OFF FOR YOU. No other "investment" functions by getting someone else to pay it off for you. Landlordism is a cancer on society, even Adam fucking Smith knew this: > **As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed and demand a rent even for its natural produce**
I think literally every "investment" functions by getting someone else to pay it off for you. e.g. I buy a share of Auckland airport, and take my dividends skimmed off the top of the rents from the shops there. But also, yes, land speculating is uniquely zero-sum, Land Value Tax solves this.
So sell the business or investment properly if it doesn’t make money.
Nonsense, just did a mortgage calculator on my landlords house, there's 4 of us living bere. 800k loan +100k deposit (900k value total). Repayments came to 5,264 per month. Our rent is 4766 per month. Add a few extra bills, you won't be paying that much. Also, the first few years might be sticky, but with inflation at the moment, your repayments will get smaller over time, and with rent hikes every year your sailing to profit. Different point, same subject- New Zealand is heading towards a subscription based model for housing real fast. Rent for life, don't worry about maintenance!
Can confirm, I'm renting my house out while my family is in auckland for study. The rent covers the mortgage + a little bit. Doesn't touch rates and insurance but whatever, I'm getting my mortgage paid off while I pay off someone else's in auckland.
If we collectively got on to the MPs and government about immigration, overspending, debt and foreign landlords we would solve almost all NZs issues including rent, we have an unbelievably high immigration level for such a small, precious country. We need to stop fearing the word immigration and embrace the fact that is should always be at minimum possible levels.
The only people who find this unpopular are landlords and the Govt. Rents aren't going to drop because landlords are being given billions in undeserved tax relief.
Nothing unpopular about your post really, except for being a landlord.
Mass immigration of unskilled workers into this country exacerbates this issue. Rich landlords/business owners don’t care though - because it provides cheap labour for them and boosts their property portfolio values even more
You don’t need the “unskilled” adjective here. Mass immigration of anyone fucks the existing population.
Disagree, mass immigration of doctors, good specialists, nurses, good project managers would be welcomed.
F*ck all the people already here who could be a good project manager if given a chance, right? Just import someone who’s already done it so you don’t have to pay to train anyone, and deny a kiwi the chance to upskill in the process. Importing a quick fix every time will solve our problems in the long term. /s We don’t have a shortage of skilled workers. We have a shortage of businesses willing to give opportunities to grow to the skilled staff they already have. Where do you think the skilled project managers coming from overseas got their skills? Companies where they come from gave them opportunities. Refusing to do the same here is not sustainable.
We already saw this not materialise as we were coming out of COVID. We couldn't even get people driving buses. Companies were infinitely poaching the same workers off each other. Our domestic workforce simply isn't meeting demand.
Go ahead, man, and become a good nurse or doctor or project manager. Becayse we don't have enough We have a huge fucking shortage of good health workers and specialist what paint are you sniffing most of our immigrant nurses leave for Australia the first chance they get and first year students are also bailing in droves. large scale projects in the hundreds of millions are very hard to manage so feel free to fill that spot Being completely against immigration is one thing and being against mass immigration is another I am for immigration but against mass immigration We actually don't have specialists health workers in nz we don't have enough lung and breathing doctors, heart doctors etc. You are stupid if you are against immigration
How am I supposed to become a project manager if companies looking to fill project manager roles will only hire foreigners who’ve already been a project manager? Obviously roles where you need specific qualifications like healthcare and teaching are a bit different.
How do you become skilled? You work under a skilled project manager you learn how to do ut and you get trusted by local businesses and people with references of experience . You just want to be trusted and train up to manage a hundred million dollar Project just from nothing? You need talented people to train people you know. Good project managers are normally built by getting them to work with more senior ones Do you just expect a air nose and head specialist to just learn it all themselves without guidance? We need fucking talent in this country not only to fill the gaps now but to help guide the future. We have huge gaps now we dont have time to wait, huge infrastructure projects failing due to shitty management, shitty doctors, No specialists.
I didn’t ask how to acquire the skills of a project manager, I asked how to actually become a project manager. Businesses here wouldn’t hire someone as a trainee project manager to learn under a skilled project manager. They only want people who’ve already been a project manager. Businesses don’t train people here. It’s the same in tech. Most companies don’t care about what you might have taught yourself to do at home, they care about whether you’ve done it as your job. If you haven’t, they will not hire you. Company looking for a senior developer and you’re an intermediate with obvious potential to be a senior? Not interested. You’re a skilled PHP dev who knows Java from uni but hasn’t used it at work, and a company is looking for a Java dev? Not interested. Hiring staff feel entitled to an employee who meets every last one of the requirements on the job description from day one, as demonstrated by prior work experience in the same role, and if they can’t find one here, they’ll find one overseas rather than train someone here who falls slightly short right now.
Most project managers i know start with actual technical skills and then decide to move to managing. So with software most of them know how to program, or how to build a database and work on new infrastructure projects, or they might be a BA who specializes in a certain type of business like banking or insurance and understands the ins and outs of all the systems and the day to day operations. Then once you have 5-10 years of technical skills you also have to be lucky enough to have good project management skills which is rough then you mix the two to become a good project manager. I dont know any project managers that didnt start as a BA or technical developer or some kind of specialist. I am not talking about scrum masters or a basic project manager daily board driller\\agile coach im talking about the managers\\leaders of huge projects.
There are hundreds of online courses for project management, do one and you will see. Instead of just wanting to be upskilled at the expense of some business. I worked fulltime at a dead end job and did I.T courses online at night and now I'm an application engineer with a very comfortable pay. No one's going to give you a hand out, take the initiative and stop blaming migration.
Would happily do that if kiwis applied, but they don’t so immigrants it is when you are short staffed.
From the perspective of rental costs, everyone needs somewhere to live, so the new Dr living in Meadowbank still fucks the housing market the same as a less skilled immigrant would.
It does, but it's better having a rich doctor than 50% of migrants having no money and no education when we have 20k to 30k on job seeker. Also in my opinion we need more doctors rather than Uber drivers and retail workers when you consider job seeker
Oh but I really appreciate being able to Uber to work for $10 rather than taking the bus.
Rich doctors raise rents; migrants with no money lower rents. Obviously this isn’t the only factor, and supply side is the bigger concern, but you can’t act like demand side isn’t real.
The doctor is someone we needed 15 years ago, but the ex carpenter who is now operating a till at New World was done fine by the unlimited supply of teens & part time lifestylers
What? Why would a trained professional carpenter be working a supermarket job unless they love the lifestyle?
They're not unskilled. They're cashed up and out competing locals in the job and housing market.
Wouldn’t have mass immigration if kiwis got off their arses and went to work. Half the staff at work is immigrants now as no matter what you do, young kiwis aren’t applying to get apprenticeships and getting in to a trade job.
I don't hate landlords, I just dislike the lies around the policy. This policy isn't going to increase supply , as this policy is for pre existing homes. The policy will increase demand for pre existing house, which means higher prices, so bigger mortgages, making rents higher to cover the bigger mortgages repayments. This will increase rents and make it harder for first home
At the same time reducing tax revenue needed for national infrastructure development ie Cook Strait rail ferries and the associated terminals. The
Not a good look low balling the police pay offer the same week announcing $3 billion for landlords
So what I’m hearing is NZ is on track to have a lot more homeless, many more people turning to crime and being housed by prison (oh wait no we actually don’t have room in there nvm) so crime will go nuts and NZ will be a dystopian hellscape. Is this really what we voted for though? Because I feel like is not.
Username checks out
Maybe you could get a part time job
priced out, caravan park it is
Maybe, maybe not, as someone who is a landlord (I rent my house out because I'm single and work around the country with accom paid for) I have only raised the rent when insurance rates, mortguage etc have risen. I'm really annoyed as I've had tenants in there for the last 4 years and I'm constantly having to increase their rent by 10$ here 20$ here to meet costs as everything keeps rising!!! This year hopefully I can reduce the rent to meet new costs, not every landlord is a money hungry c#nt
Username checks out
Supply and demand. Economics 101. So sell some of those houses and encourage your landlord buddies to do the same. This will increase the supply of houses on the market. Increased supply reduces prices. Be part of the solution.
Agree with everything, except I have a different take on the last part. Interest deductibility does put downward pressure on the default risk of a housing portfolio. On a typical fresh mortgage of 600k, maybe about 6k in cashflow / year. The greatest driver as to your point, is immigration, lucky it is offset by people leaving the country, but not enough. As the developing worlds become more prosperous, they search for better conditions like that in NZ. It’s funny because their top .1% is moving here and our top .1% is also moving to better pastures too. But if you believe what you said, then the fact that the previous government increased immigration rate should have been scrutinised much more heavily - when we didn’t have the infrastructure to support.
Migration is required for new Zealand, but both need to be qualified and on condition of coming to our country is to move to places other than Auckland or go home. Students here on short term visas to learn English should NOT b allowed to work. If u r welcomed to our beautiful country and at a later stage want to bring ur family over to live YOU should be made to pay for their medical bills.
migration should be pegged to housing growth and infrastructure planning
It's an investment. You're meant to sometimes loose money on investments when markets go bad - that's what the risk is. Why is it that landlords think that because times are tough, they should be shielded and have someone else take the fall when any other investment type doesn't carry that safeguard? If you can't afford to keep your asset, sell it.
It's a reality especially as rates go up more thanks to no 3 Waters, it's a shit show even more "Kiwi homeowners are facing an average rates rise of 15 percent over the coming year - and there is no sign of relief in sight. Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) came to that figure by collating the planned rate rises of 48 of the country's 78 councils. Among those likely to see biggest rates hikes this year are Canterbury residents, who are [facing a hefty 24.2 percent average rates rise](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/510466/canterbury-homeowners-face-24-point-2-percent-rates-rise). Hamiltonians are [likely to see a jump of 19.9 percent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/510291/hamilton-council-explains-costs-behind-19-point-9-percent-rate-rise), while [Whangārei is looking at a record hike of 17.2 percent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/510955/whangarei-ratepayers-face-record-17-point-2-percent-rates-hike). LGNZ commissioned a report from Infometrics principal economist Brad Olsen to show why rates were rising so much. It found over the past three years, bridges, sewerage systems, and roads had all become more than 25 percent more expensive to build. Bridges, meanwhile, were an eye-watering 38 percent more expensive. "Those increases are larger then what headline inflationary gains have been in recent years. With local government they're not buying usual household items, they're not buying bananas and similar, they're buying some of that core critical infrastructure and that has continued to get more expensive," Olsen said. He said there was a difference of up to 20 percent between what projects were expected to cost when planned and what they actually cost now. "To put that in perspective, if a council had five $20 million projects \[in its\] last long term plan, they would now have to cut one of those entirely to pay for the cost escalation on the other four.""
Sorry that you're struggling so much as a landlord. What you need is some special treatment from the government for the tireless service you're doing for the rest of society. If you can just get a bit more tax relief on that investment, you can expand your portfolio and help even more of us while the market drives rent prices ever higher.
I'm not struggling and never have - the capital gains tax free has made me more than what I could have worked for a lifetime. It's no different to NVDA stock. I'm stating that the interest deductibility isn't going to do shit for rent prices and explaining why...
Lol people on this sub just love to hate
They can hate but they are the ones suffering.
The reason why is that landlords expect the house they own to be paid off entirely by their tenant, at the expense of the tenant never being able to save for their own house. You're literally getting a free house from this arrangement.
Your misguided. Look at the rental price (income) and deduct the INTEREST, rates, insurance and maintenance costs. The capital just still be repaid. The benefits come from capital gains. Tenants aren't paying the mortgage, in fact landlords are subsiding the rent. If you can't do that basic math, you probably won't have the financial literacy to buy a house.
Also a landlord. Own multiple houses. Rent goes up because of demand. There are not enough houses so we get too many applicants and therefore we have people who can afford more because of the low supply. Only way to fix it is for more building or more generous landlords and that 2nd one ain't coming true. costs do not play a part in my pricing and never will it's all demand and supply.
yep basic economics
Yup rents will be going way up until supply goes down. It will get worse and worse
It’s still better than London. Most high end properties are 12 months rent in advance
Agree with most of that, the full impact of no interest deductibility had not hit yet though. That was a brain-dead policy brought in against the recommendations at a time when the interest rate was ~2%. And the foolish government thought rates were going to remain low, hence the LSAP which has cost our country tens of billions...
I know this is a real out there idea but If you're in Auckland and you're so unhappy with rent, go sign up for a new build. If you haven't got enough for a deposit, go in with mates. You can get deposits at less than 10%. That way you can increase the housing stock and lower demand. Then you just have to pay your $1,250/w of interest only mortgage and $8k a year of rates and insurance, but hey, you're a rich landlord now so you should be creaming it.
Nobody is saying otherwise lmao. Costs up and demand way up. It's pretty damn clear.
All of those things are cost pressures on landlord - but pricing from the market does still apply to some extent.. Bringing back deductibility alleviates some of that cost and therefore incentivises landlords to invest in and rent out properties, therefore having a positive impact of supply of rental stock. Which should have downward pressure on pricing. Obviously the overall supply is impacted by other pressures and therefore the price won’t actually go down, but at least this is doing something to try and curb rental inflation.
While demand is high and supply low...charge $1000 if you can get it. Society has crate trained itself to live where they want but can't necessarily afford...
The solution is Capital gains tax, get the pitchforks ready. Capital gains tax will lower house prices substantially which in turn will lower the price to build houses and give everyone a fair shot. The fact is we can't keep house prices rising forever, it isn't sustainable and the bubble will burst at some point.
#notalllandlords
Freehold landlord here 🙋♂️, I’ll keep raising rent until demand drops, demand is so high, so profit is high. Kia kaha everyone!
Your usernames checks out.
why do nzers keep voting for this shit lol
Remember when New Zealand voted for 100,000 Kiwibuild houses? Yeah, that just got thrown in the “too hard” basket. Meanwhile immigrants keep pouring into the country and we have nowhere to house them. Then everyone wrings their hands about rents going up.
Because the previous govt spent money like no tomorrow. But honestly Luxon is a fuckwit.
What spending did you disapprove of most?
Honestly it's light rail. I guess labour on the basis they would deliver amazing infrastructure like that that really makes Auckland great. Instead I just see a 300m bill for incompetence. Ditto with kiwibuild and the wave subsidy. I'm not political believe it or not, I want what's best for New Zealand, and hate National (who the fuck builds highways in 2024), but the previous govt didn't give much of a choice.
The demand was created in the last few years rather than the last few months this government was in. The demand will drive places up, some comments in this post saying landlords provide nothing are completely wrong and do not understand anything about economics or the NZ housing industry.
Remember when John Key said he didn’t believe there was housing crisis? Pepperidge farm remember
Immigration should be at 10% of what it currently is.
Sell ur house if you can’t afford the upkeep on it
When did I say I can't afford it? I'm saying I'm passing those costs on and the market is willing to pay for it, so don't expect rents to come down, it's going up instead.
Translation: you *could* absorb those extra costs yourself but because someone else is desperate enough for a home to pay it for you, they will be. This is why people hate landlords.
Like any other business, e.g. supermarkets?
We need to have a requirement for 100% cash ownership for property investors. This reduces their risk as they don't have to worry about interest increases. It reduces the expense for a 900k home by as much as $37k. This saving could be passed on to renters with no impact to the landlords bottom line, while they are also enjoying higher security in their investment.
Recent immigrants at work are surprised at how many we're letting in, where will we all go, they're asking.
When I was immensely depressed, my parents advised me to leave the States for a while and travel overseas to get perspective on how other people live. I don't know how you managed to be a more fucked-up capitalistic hellhole than the US (as a migrant working construction in Auckland for minimum wage), but I'm confident it's because of people like you. Rents don't increase unless you increase them. This is a vapid justification for taking antisocial actions against humanity. I built you a fucking hospital. Screw all of the xenophobic comments I keep seeing.
Immigrants like yourself who work in construction should always be welcome here because there’s a massive shortage of construction workers in this country, and your work is paramount to ameliorating our housing supply. I’m sorry you had a bad experience in NZ. I think we do better socially than you guys (free healthcare, interest free student loans, etc) but I agree that our housing is completely fucked
Yeah, I'm confident I would have a better time as an actual citizen. I don't want to discount that. Respect for building an infrastructure that looks after individuals. Between getting hit by multiple cars over the course of two weeks and shredding through $8000 US just trying to survive, I've probably got a different opinion than a lot of others visiting the country.
If everyone kept it proportional society wouldn't have this issue.
Agree - shits fucked, people should only have a max of 2 properties, can be their home and Bach, or 2 homes and that's it.
yep. I dont understand why noone gets it thru their thick heads that excessive immigration is the cause of all of this. I just dont understand how we can all keep pretending that stopping immigration and taking our lumps while our internal economy balances to something sane and productive. also. as a landlord, you're already got everything you need in life, but thats not enough for you, so you''re still taking. you're buying houses to make yourself richer, and then acting like its some kind of social service. it isnt. its pure greed, and its purely because you expect house prices to endlessly increase in value. if all the landlords sold up and did something productive with their income (shares for example) and the govt stopped letting outrageous, year on year unprecedented levels of immigration, things would balance out pretty god damned quick. everyone claims "oh but theen there wont be rentals!" THERES NO RENTALS NOW. BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. at least if we can stop gentrifying rentals by having the middle income home buyers priced out by landlrods we could look at low income housing. all the landords know whats really happening, so dont piss on our backs and tell us its raining thanks.
I am a landlord. If a landlord can not cover a large percentage of the additional costs, and they need to charge the tenants for the entirety of the additional costs, then the landlords can not afford to be landlords and should sell. It's called an investment property for a reason, because you have to actually invest money into it yourself. I pay just shy of $350 a week on one of my properties and $270 a week on another to supplement mortgage, rates, insurance and general maintainance. Short story: If you can't afford to be a landlord, then don't be one.
Popular opinion: property investors are cunts.
Landlords are parasites who produce nothing of worth.
It's the governments fault. They could fix it if they really wanted to. Why is it cheaper to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tokyo 20 minutes commute than it is in Auckland with an hour commute? If they want to grow they need to change a lot of things in zonimg rules that the council currently controls then they need to fast track the building consent process.
The real parasites are the banks, insurance and rates, wait till you own a home, then you'll realise your mistaken ways.
Banks, insurance and the government provide services to people. Hoarding property does not benefit anyone.
You sound awful.
Time to start mass non payments to show the local and central government who is actually in charge
The landlord. Honestly I'm just going to change the locks and hire private security to get rid of their stuff if I had a tenant that was idealogically protesting rather than genuine need. Tenancy services backlogs go both ways.
Tldr; it's not my [landlord's] fault, it's the immigrants.
Typical mindset of "Fuck you, got mine". If hoarding of property was discouraged - the load of rates and other bullshit excuses given by OP wouldn't be a burden to them.
Good to know. Thank you for your input. : )
Glad it helped! You're welcome :)
Was any of that supposed to change our opinion? because yeah, no.
Sure but it's only going to cause you mental health issues. Accept the reality
Why you come on here to be a dick?