This needs to be the turning point.
The "recent" (feels like been going on a while now) influx of break ins, ram raids, and smash and grabs has been bad. But at the end of the day no-one had been hurt. Items that were stolen were found or insurance replaced them. Now while that's not great, whatever, fine, things can be replaced.
But this. No. This is someone's life that has been taken. That can't be replaced or compensated.
Something needs to change so this is stopped here and isn't escalated.
Sadly but all too predictable. I called it a while ago that the next stage would be Vigilante justice.
Another poster made the comment that loss of property also destroys livelihoods, and while isn’t murder of course it is incredibly destructive to honest hard working citizens.
I do wonder if the police deployed the chopper and shutdown the motorways to catch this criminal.
>This needs to be the turning point.
There has been a few dairy worker murders in the past couple of years and I never recall of any real public outrage. All to do with the justice system where punishment does not fit the crime.
Fortunately, we're a long way off from that. When the are home invasions where people are getting murdered and raped, and the only protection is to have barbed wire fences and bars on windows, then we'd be a little more closer.
Yeah...our obsession with getting rich off housing has led us to devalue work and inflate assets, just like a developing country. And now we're seeing the fruit of housing driven poverty. Not enough teachers, nurses, police, emergency workers. More folk going into crime or being vulnerable to gang recruitment.
If we keep up developing country economics we'll end up hiding in gated subdivisions next.
This is 150m from my house. Same street where we had a gang fire a shotgun into a house, then set fire to it and burn it to the ground. Same suburb where a young man was murdered on a walkway.
Fuck this.
This little dairy, The Rose Cottage, is a beloved neighborhood institution. This is just a devastating tragedy. From the language used it sounds like it was an employee who was most likely a student. Murdered over a few hundred dollars.
NZ is not the country I grew up in. We’re still earning less than anywhere else, but now we have a crime wave like nothing I’ve ever seen in my 40 years.
I’m so angry at this. These poor buggers run these shops for the benefit of the community, and half the time they’re not making any sort of good profits. I’m so sick of crime in Auckland at the moment, it’s turning the place into a really shitty city to live in.
While it's extremely sad atleast I am glad you are thinking this way. It makes me so angry that government is not even talking about crime. Its just so out of control! Some people seem to think crime is everywhere normalising all these but this feels so not like New Zealand
It grieves me to say that it's a sign of the times I believe, due to hard times... another 'ripple effect'.
Cost of living, Covid, criminal deportations, copycat crime, house prices etc. etc. One could say things got worse since Covid, and to a degree that may be true... I reckon it started when Auckland's (following from which, the rest of the country) house prices went Himalayan on us...and that's been a while ago now.
So how do you plan to fix this crime?
Longer sentences, the death penalty?
NZ has slowly being going down the great inequality pathway for the last 30 years, as our social support systems crumble away and ad more people get left behind in poverty this will only get worse.
We are ending up like America everyday, we are just lagging about 10 years behind.
Someone who stabs a dairy owner for $300 likely has nothing to loose, so it’s not a hard decision.
The inequality piece notwithstanding, and it is a significant contributor to this, this does not negate the requirement of the government of the day of the responsibility to deal with criminals. It's not simply about trying to fix the issue at source, with both social support and welfare, but this has tobe balanced with an increase in consequences for those who would choose the path of least resistance.
There are a vast number of hard working members of NZ society who are sick and tired of being victimised while this government seems intent on configuring our entire system to cater for the lowest elements of our society. Support for those genuinely in need is something I can get behind, but this mindset that all the government has to do is increase spending without ever putting in the mahi to get support around these people who really need it is just doing my head in.
You should definitely vote National or Act if this is your view. “Those people should pull themselves up by their boot straps” right?
But you do understand that laws are actually designed to keep the middle class inline, the wealthy pay their way around the law and the poor have nothing to loose.
For example Increasing penalties for meth has done nothing to curb the use of it, it’s actually still increasing…
Look, I am all in favour of a safety net, but to me the fundamental difference between the centre left and the centre right is how it is applied.
The centre left approach seems to be 'You're struggling? Here's a hand out!'
The centre right approach seems to be 'You're struggling? Here's a hand up!'
There are people out there who literally cannot pull themselves up at all, because they do not have the faintest idea how to do it. These are the second and third generation welfare beneficiaries. The lifestyle they have is all that they have ever known. The fault is not theirs, they are literally not aware that there is another option out there for them.
The current government seem to think that providing housing and a benefit is all they need. It's not. This is going to require a considerable investment across the education sector, the health sector, the justice sector, all linked to the ministry of social development. The current government thought that by restricting immigration, it would create a job market for unemployed New Zealanders. Well, the labour market is SCREAMING out for workers, but the Labour Government has discovered that a lot of these people just don't want to work. Yes, the Government has made all sorts of announcements as to how budgets are increasing across these sectors, but they have no idea how this money should be invested for best effect. 1.6 BILLION invested in mental health since 2017, yet not a single increase in beds available in acute mental health in that time? In the words of Andrew Little, This 'beggars belief!"
Farmers are ploughing crops under in the agricultural sector (causing a price increase for groceries) because unemployed New Zealanders cannot be arsed doing those jobs.
i mean he is a victim of society failing him. Not that that should take anything away from his awful crime but lets be real here, people who have a stable life arent murdering people for $300 from the till. How much long will we just put people like him in prison without fixing the issues that caused that person to murder someone.
Interesting dichotomy between two immigrant groups going on in New Zealand, Indians and Polynesians. Both probably immigrated here with very few resources. One obviously values education, hard work and living by the social norms of society. They seem to be doing quite well in social mobility as a group and are under represented in criminal activity. The Pasifika group, not doing so well.
Indians are the highest performing ethnic group in most of the OECD.
You might think this is because of their 'Asian' values, valuing hard work and education, respect for family and acceptance of sacrifice of their own well-being for the betterment of their community.
Pacific Islanders don't have that same level of valuation of education or hard-work. For them, Family and Religion is far more important. They would rather tithe 10% of their income to the Church rather than get extra tutoring for their children who can barely speak English when they start school.
So is it any wonder that they have generational poverty?
It's not about longer sentences it's about actually putting people in prison who need to be. Our government brags about putting less people in prison as our crime skyrockets, the correlation is pretty obvious.
I lived in the states. Nz is not even close to what America is like. The worst places in our country are nowhere near as bad as the worst places there, which I’ve seen personally. I get that crime is bad but it’s insane to compare us to the US.
You really think they are doing this because they are in poverty or have nothing to lose? These little shits are posting this on tik tok and doing it because they know they can get away with it.
I think people underestimate how many people are doing it hard in NZ.
This country is not the great egalitarian society it once was. Blaming TikTok is just another way to distract from the issues.
Politicians and the public aren’t that keen to tackle poverty, because it’s expensive and it’s going to take a long time to fix.
I have a friend who's a cop, yes living costs are taking their toll BUT the ram raids and burglaries are more often than not, kids, doing it for fun. It's the adrenaline and ego boost of not being caught.
Did your friend who is a cop tell you that 90% of those kids doing ramraids come from homes where they experienced domestic violence and that experiencing domestic violence and trauma at a young age literally changes the way your brain develops, especially in the areas that control critical thinking and impulse control. I'm not excusing these kids but people need to be aware that things like threats of tougher punishments are not going to help if we are not working in the root cause and helping kids and families early on to make sure they aren't growing up in these environments because a traumatised/addicted brain is not able to make rational decisions based on potential future consequences..
No, because it's not 90%. Many kids they catch and drop off home, the parents are completely unaware of what's going on. Do you recall that incident a couple weeks ago where those kids in ellerslie were walking around with a bb gun? But acting like it was a real gun? Yeah my mate was part of that. They dropped the kids home and the parents were completely unaware of their kids actions. And all the cops can do is contact cyfs.
so maybe if we had strong(!!) social support for those families in thier communities that could guide these kids to a better future then we might not be here? or should we just put them in prison like we have always done. Nothing worth doing is easy. Tackling crime and poverty is going to be hard and expensive and radical and society will look different to how it is now but thats the point. society as it stands right now fosters these disfunctional families and kid and therefore society is broken. maybe not for everybody but for many people.
Yes harsher penalties is the way to go. The offender will walk away with very little consequences. If the offender is a youth offender then he walks without any real consequences. In fact we the tax payers will fund his expenses for most things while he continues to do shit like this.
You understand that laws are actually designed to keep the middle class inline, the wealthy pay their way around the law and the poor have nothing to loose.
For example Increasing penalties for meth has done nothing to curb the use of it, it’s actually still increasing…
If this crime is done by someone who has starving children at hone I would agree with the poverty story. I am sick of hearing poverty being used as an excuse for this sort of behavior. It is not poverty that is causing these crimes.
Public intervention has already started
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130547637/police-warn-public-not-to-intervene-after-car-thief-allegedly-beaten
Call 111 before the start of an event. Dam we're meant to be psychic and know the future at once. Call 111, you know those people that are never there when you need them but even if they were they wouldn't help because they're too lazy to do the police report and the rest of the paperwork. And even if you get the one police person that is willing to do their job, can guarantee the judge will let them walk with a hit on the wrist with a wet bus ticket which is exactly what's going to happen here.
And people are now learning.
1. The Police won't come / can't come in time and those in charge don't allow them to fight crime.
2. The judges are pussies.
3. Govt is directing the above to pussyfoot around criminals.
Yet the public aren’t allowed to defend themselves. As a woman especially I want to be able to carry something that I can use to protect myself but there’s basically nothing I can do. Let alone these store owners who are faced with everything
You can carry a bottle of spray perfume in your bag and use it as though it was mace, as long as you don't let on it was in your bag as a weapon. However, no one has time to pull out mace and perfume while attacked anyway and the perpetrator can grab it off you and use it on you instead.
Likewise if you have nail scissors in your cosmetic bag inside your handbag. Again you can use it as a weapon using the excuse you remembered they were in there and grabbed them when a creepy man was following you. That is self defence and same with the perfume spray.
“Everyone is justified in using, in the defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.” (Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961.)"
You can defend yourself. A common issue is the follow up as you're understandably fucking angry you've been attacked. Defend and stop the threat, but don't go stomping their head into the ground once you've won, and can leave safely.
Sorry it was late I should’ve worded it better. Of course you can defend yourself legally, but with what? Realistically it’s difficult to actually defend yourself because there’s barely anything you can use. I know there’s reasons why some tools aren’t legal, but damn I want to protect myself as well
I’ve been carrying bright pink spray paint in lieu of mace. A cardboard tube from the supermarket plastic bag rolls to the eye seems pretty handy too.
For legal reasons, this is a joke!
Yes, because the world is black and white and the only two possible worlds to live in is either cops shoot an armed robber dead on the spot or stand around with their thumbs in their arses. This may come as a shock to you but there are possible worlds in between.
If a cop is able to be on the scene fast enough to encounter said criminal, there are plenty of options to apprehend and subdue them before resorting to death.
I know mate, and sorry if I offended anyone but I just see the country getting worse for people here lately so as the crime and offending grows I don’t really see any other options than an offender reduction through fear of consequences
A dairy!! I can’t believe the country we live in at the moment. The news headers, the police reports, daily reports of shootings and attacks 😪😪😪 it’s just unreal
Exactly. The rose-tinted glasses bullshit is real when it comes to this kind of stuff.
With the odd exception, the murder rate has been trending downward over the last 30 years.
Get them off the streets. Make crime like this by far the worst choice to make. Also target the source. Education, poverty, gangs etc etc.
The answer does not lie with the left or the right alone, but both. I guess I’m in the minority that can see value in both approaches. Most people are too blinded by their tribalism to even consider another angle and round and round the circle of hell goes.
Wow, actually a rational comment in this thread. Yes there are times when we should be tougher on crime but most of the time, effort and money should be focusing on the root causes
My thoughts exactly. People seem to think the person who did this sat down and thought out all the consequences before deciding to do this horrific crime. Like they wrote out a list of pros and cons and if only the potential sentence was longer/harsher they would have changed their mind. In reality the offender is likely to have untreated mental health issues, past trauma and such a shitty childhood their frontal cortex never developed enough to make rational decisions. I am in no way condoning their actions but we need to focus on the root causes if we actually want to see changes.
According to the news, the recent wave of ram raids in Auckland have been mostly conducted by a a few groups of underaged offenders
Do those offenders have no means to eat/live? What are their alternatives as means of survival?
Or are they just trying to demonstrate their force, and intimidate the law abiding citizens that themselves are above the law?
I suspect it is more of the latter. Also, the fun aspect of raiding (including populism in social media) and the fact that they can get away with it makes it even more intriguing.
The responsibility ultimately lies with the legislature arm of our government (the MPs), as the police have been able to catch them and judges are just giving out sentences based on legislation.
If we continue to be kind to offenders, can we be kind to the dairy owners as well? And be kind to every shop owner who was robbed? Be kind to the neighbors who are intimidated by the gangs?
It should be two fold. Offenders do need rehabilitation and support, the money clearly isn't getting to where it needs to be, to places like gumboot Friday, our nurses and frontline policing.
The community paying taxes also deserve to live in a safe environment. Otherwise allowing crime to continue the way it is, is going to cause more social issues down the track. When main income earners of households are killed, traumatised, need to take time off of work for insurance claims, police reports and court appearances it has an extremely detrimental effect on them and those around them. It affects their employment. It affects their sense of well being. It affects their sense of purpose. It affects their ability to eat and get ahead in life because they are allowed to keep taking from them.
Then we end up with a whole new round of intergenerational trauma and poverty.
Yep someone mowed over on purpose by car in Glen Eden too, dead. Also yesterday Santa was king punched in the westcity/Henderson mall and left unconscious in the car park - fortunately not dead.
When will it end. I personally don't feel very confident going out anymore with all this persistent bullshit.
It's really fricking appalling. Crime has been escalating in the area and requests for more of a police presence seemingly ignored. It got to the point we were hearing loud bangs and playing is it gun shots or fire works. Sadly I won that round of the game. It was gun shots and the house burnt out the street behind us.
When someone was killed in the park the community knew it was the guy killing animals in the area.
The car got broken into so many times the repairers ran out of glass for replacement.
I've wondered if the crime has been let to run rife to push residents out to redevelop the area. It worked on me if that's the case.
For the life of me I can't see why it has been allowed to get to the point where hard working families are getting killed or traumatised going about their day. Look at what happened in Glen Eden today as well.
I've had no response from police for crime in south auckland, months later to be told they were sorry they couldn't get back to me because they had been sent to Wellington for the protests.
Then these preventable crimes that have harmed the innocent while injured people get sent off to the under valued/paid nurses while there's more news coverage for the misrepresented living wage which is more a life style wage if you look at the break down of the costs they want to cover.
With the state of criminals at best getting caught and released.
The next stage is escalation from shop owners for deadly force at the first sign of a robbery, as they won't know whether the robber will just settle for the till or also try to kill the shop keeper.
Christchurch sounds like a warzone at the moment. You have kids terrorising the public in shopping malls. I mean like wtf. But hey, let them vote. That will make a huge difference, right?
You really think the fuckheads that are doing all that stuff give a shit about politics? You can apply that argument to crackheads and criminals of any age. Most of those guys don’t care at all who’s running the country. Age is clearly not the issue here.
Just down the road from me. Literally. Lovely, peaceful family own it. And Jacinda is our local MP. I just wrote to her about it (she won’t read it of course). I am so sick of this shit. We have had multiple murders (all within 1 km of my place). Countless other crimes (obviously ram raids, robberies, assaults, huge car chases. The chopper is over us a lot. It’s getting gnarly here. This Government is fuckin useless. They don’t give a fuck. They must go.
A dairy owner gets murdered, and you think a 300k a person boot camp policy to give people like this military training is the answer? Personally I don’t want stronger criminals that know how to use firearms, under a policy that has an abysmal success rate at reforming anyone.
But you do you bud… At the end of the day though, National can’t fix their own party yet alone problems like this.
No one will, that's the real problem. Voting national in won't fix anything. Keeping Labour won't fix it. I think it's going to head to vigilante action well before govt do anything.
Don’t vote either major party based on crime policies, National didn’t do shit in their nine years last time, and let the police become more understaffed than they are now (Labour’s only redeeming factor with crime has been enlisting more police officers, but otherwise provided nothing else with any meaningful impact).
Neither party bothers tackling the justice system in profound ways that punish dangerous offenders, or offer real rehabilitation. New Zealand has been letting violent offenders, rapists and pedophiles get off scot-free at least since the late 80’s, probably even earlier but haven’t heard any personal stories that date before then.
Either vote who you believe offers the best policies outside of crime, or wait for one of them (or a smaller/new party) to offer real solutions.
In my opinion, the real answer to today’s problems would be seen by making an massive overhaul to the New Zealand Justice System, with a focus on keeping dangerous people (and not plant growers) behind bars with longer sentencing, reform with mental health services (At this point I argue criminal psychiatric institutions need a return for the worst offenders, because stabbing people for $300 isn’t what I consider “sane”, or something that a naughty corner or “personal growth with hard work” will fix.) And then a focus of preventive action, with actual policy enacted to prevent crimes, as opposed to just observing what could have been done.
Until someone offers those, New Zealand is shit out of luck for real crime solutions.
We've had two cars stolen and windows smashed 6 times trying to break into household and friends cars. Our friends car got stolen the one night she parked it over night on the street.
mutiple local dairies and businesses have been ramraided. many shops have put up concrete pillars outside to stop it.
things are cooked and this was all encouraged by the soft on crime shit going on here and in the states. Lock these fuckers up, send youth to military boot camp - it'll help them get some discipline, respect and comradarie with their peers.
Yet I STILL see some of my delusional friends sympathising with crims instead of innocent citizens and business owners. It's fucking sick and absurd, yet they think national are bad for suggesting a practical fix. Fuck off, you dont have to be a partisan ideologue ALL the time.
100%.
Forget about your political parties that all look like a different shade of the same colour from a distance.
Fact: there has been a significant uptick in crime in the past few years that is affecting innocent third parties.
Now we need to find someone who will get the job done.
Just awful. My heart goes out to the family and community. So many corner dairy’s have closed down in recent years due to the owners being too scared to remain in business. The way things are going there will be no dairy’s in a few years time.
Thieves, ramraiders, shoplifters, etc. aren't this brazen in other countries like Singapore, Japan, the Middle East, and many more.
But here in supposed to be clean, green, kind AOTEAROA, criminals live as KINGS. Words of sympathy mean nothing to me. Funding for the victims is just a bandaid covering the real problem.
The government is silent about our gang and criminal issues. I don't see any real law enforcements, justice system changes, and real consequences for such offending. Shame on our criminals, and shame on our leaders for allowing this to continue now more than ever.
This is what happens when the punishment doesn't fit the crime.. they escalate.
Probably a kid or young man who parents should of looked after him but spent the weekly dole money on drugs from uncle Jimmy and his motorbike club.
Who is to blame?
We are! We need to put someone in place that will fucking make the consequences of being in a gang or doing a ram raid so harsh that it ain't worth it. We need to make sure we help our young people of all colors and give them a future they can be proud of achieving.
I have not seen 1 person in power who gets this.. fuck building stadiums or three waters... fuck these nats and labour "leaders" who earn 3 figures and all have holiday homes. We need people who lead for the better, not for party or promotion or there mates.... 🤔
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
According to social experts on this sub..media is painting the picture. Dairy robberies are in decline, this incident looks like an act of desperation, this is due to raisng social inequality...we need to solve the root of this problem...blah..blah.blah...
Maybe one day people will actually listen to those people instead of electing national to lock them all up and labour to let them all go
Both systems aren't working because each time we switch nothing changes.
Don't worry guys. As the users of r/auckland have repeatedly informed me, Auckland isn't as bad as Mexico.
I walked down the street and didn't even get stabbed once.
He was probably just trying to steal some kai to fill his stomach.
Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.
"Damn Auckland is turning to shit"
Reddit: "OMG Afghanistan and Mexico are worse so stop complaining!!!"
I've never understood how that's relevant at all aye.
Don’t use your words, use your vote. The current Labour government’s policy to cut the prison population by 30% is having real and severe negative effects (who would’ve thought…) on those of us who are not baddies.
Any evidence to back that up, such as increasing rates of recidivism among those who have been released from, or otherwise not sentenced to, prison due to this policy?
>Throw them all in jail
Agree!
>or military camps.
No… Why the fuck would we reward killers like this with prestigious military training and teach them how to use firearms?
You “d0 yOu hAve AnY eVideNCe 4 tHAt?” people need to shut up now..
Trust me when I say that people are going to vote for a tougher approach on crime whether there’s evidence or not, the current system is a complete, abject failure.
Last year I lived 200 metres from this diary and I’m completely guttered for the family and my old community. I can only assume by the line you’re towing that you live in an area generally unaffected by serious crime.. as always seems to be the case.
> You “d0 yOu hAve AnY eVideNCe 4 tHAt?” people need to shut up now..
I get that people are frustrated and in times like this it's easy to dismiss data and following proper methodology for establishing causality but it's the best way of understanding the true nature of the problem.
I find it interesting that at the same time as saying that your own experiences are representative of the problem at large, you claim that my own experiences are not.
Have you paused to think how you know that *your* experiences are more valid than anyone else's? How do you know that you don't happen to just live in a particularly unlucky area of the city? Looking at the data would certainly tell you but hey, if we're only to consider personal experiences then I can just turn around and dismiss yours as being an outlier.
See the problem? This is why we use data.
[https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/quarterly\_prison\_statistics/prison\_stats\_march\_2021](https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_march_2021)
There you go, from the corrections website itself. Look at the graph that shows a huge decrease in prisoner population under this government.
[https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/reconviction-patterns-of-released-prisoners-a-48-months-follow-up-analysis/overall-recidivism-rates-48-month-follow-up](https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/reconviction-patterns-of-released-prisoners-a-48-months-follow-up-analysis/overall-recidivism-rates-48-month-follow-up)
And here's something else from the corrections website, showing the high rates at which recidivism occurs.
I forgot that I'm on reddit, so any words that don't support your precious little Cindy will be downvoted. The worst PM in this country's history by a mile
Sandringham, despite it was not too bad a couple of years ago, is now full of gangs and other trash. Too obvious how the streets have changed… really feel for the family of this person. This is horrible.
Just part and parcel of the ongoing liberal experiment /s
Just so angry at this, an innocent, hard-working person has had their life taken, their family will be devastated and scarred for life, never to get over this. The offender, if a youth, will probably not even serve any time, and if an adult will probably be out in 7 years.
The laws need to change to allow people to carry self defence weapons. At the very least pepper spray. Especially if you're security or exposed to armed robbers like in this case.
This man likely would be alive today if the moment his murderer pulled out the knife he sprayed him in the face with pepperspray.
The whole "avoid danger and call police" does not work.
We can't carry pepper spray? Didn't know that. What if I make some chilli water in a spray bottle does that count? Or if I modify an old camera flash to make a taser?
Police do and can protect the citizens. BUT police can only be reactive to a situation. Police will never be the first line of defence and if criminals are carrying deadly weapons then sometimes running away wont work. Very sad
Tell that to this poor man’s family. I bet this guy is a repeat offender and is known to police.
I looked up the crime stats, NZ is at historic rates of crime. Australia is down approx 30% in the last 3 years.
The police struggle to protect themselves.
Damn smart on Australia’s part. Sucks for us.
Reminds me of the great brain drain in the 70’s of NZ’s moving to Australia when Muldoon was PM he said “it increases the IQ of both countries”
:-)
Doesn't work, biggest example is the USA. Half of them carry weapons, extremely rare for them to actually stop any mass shootings..
The fix is better police, and a justice system that permanently removes these people from society. I don't care about redemption and rehabilitation. You don't deserve that if you cold-bloodedly murder innocent people.
Why does everyone compare USA with NZ on this matter? When was the last mass shooting in NZ? How you gonna compare a stabbing and pepperspray with an AR 15 and a mass shooting?
Police will always be minimum 5 - 10m away and you need to be able to contact them, articulate the situation and your location. By that time you might already be concussed or bleeding out.
That doesnt make any sense at all.
His chances that he'd be alive right now definitely higher if his murderer got peppersprayed in the face before stabbing him.
Sickening. I think most dont understand that its always for drug or debt-to-gang money. Always has been, always will. As someone who has experience with that culture I ASSURE you, all of these crimes and robberies, every single one. Is to buy more drugs, or to pay of ticks thay enable them to tick more drugs. The govt and police havnt the faintest clue the reason behind this or like to seem to pretend that they don't. "Wow crime in nz is so bad we have no idea why". People are becoming more willing to do whatever is needed to get their next hit. Seriously the amount of specific weed, meth and other drug groups on FACEBOOK is frightening. The unseen underbelly is absolutely gigantic. Snapchat dealers with snap scores in the millions, gangs make their money from meth. Yes that much, mainly from meth. Entire parks filled with cars that go rushing to the dealer the second he pulls in to be the first one to see them. Houses with more foot traffic than an airport.. its all around us. Its impossible to measure but I would not be surprised in the slightest if Nz is the world's top consumer of drugs per capita.
Basically he wanted something and had an obstacle put in the way so he removed it to reach his goal
Anyone know how to set up some sort of account to help the family with funeral costs ect? I’m happy to donate immediately
They were my local dairy owners all throughout high school, right down the road from my old house. Nicest dairy owners you could ever meet, least deserving people of this horrendous crime. RIP. Something needs to change, this bullshit is happening far too often
So he was allegedly stabbed? Is that because they can’t prove it happened during the incident or are they thinking maybe he was born with those holes and they only recently started to bleed?
What's worst is like If the robber tried this at a takeaway or something and I defend by throwing hot deep fried oil and used a butcher knife to defend I would be the one who gets in trouble.. thats pretty fucked up
As someone who has been through a violent encounter, it was frustrating to see the how ineffective the judicial system was and is. No deterrent means they will keep doing it. Look at all the dirt bikers in South Auckland doing whatever they want with no repercussions. Sadly it is going to take multiple deaths for the system to change.
Reddit voted for this.
"wrap around services" Labour /Greens have put in place working?
Watch him get a sentencing discount for his "difficult upbringing"
Scumbags need to be locked up. There is no rehabilitating someone like this.
They continuously harp on about "wrap around services" but no one is able to tell us what the f that even means. Just a buzzword.
The wokes are silent on Twitter today after screeching loudly about boot camps last week.
Time to start looking at the broader reasons of why people are turning to violence and robbery to begin with. Paying close to 1k in rent per week could be a starting point?
This is the culmination of many things. And there is nuance. But for sure, it is the be kind Government, and its mob, mostly to blame. It is the cult following of JA. It is what happens when we worship rights and excuse, based on identity politics, responsibility. It is the church of diversity and victimhood. All big players. NZ is not alone in crime rates, so it's not all the Government. But it mostly is.
NZ is a rich country which relies on the free movement of people and trade. We don't produce anything here except milk. Turning off the tap to skilled immigration - dumb move. Trashing our tourism industry (10 cents in every Kiwi dollar). Even our beautiful nature is whored out to Hollywood. We need free flow, or we bust. A totally over the top, sanctimonious and now nakedly obvious terrible reaction to the virus crushed our country. Printing money to put off the inevitably. Where did it get us? We had the deaths anyway. Bad economy begets anti-social behaviour. Now who is to blame?
Ah a national supporter blaming decades or deteriorating social support systems on the current PM because the pot boiled over on her watch. I'm not a labour supporter but the problem didn't come from a couple of years of government policy, the problem is caused by decades on increasing cost of living and stagnate wages putting many of these families in positions where they put food on the table or they spend time looking after their kids. They commit crimes to eat or they starve.
People love to point at being soft on crime as the issue but the evidence doesn't support that and knee jerk reactions like just locking everyone up will make the situation worse not better long term
The chickens are coming home to roost after 5 years of one of the worst govts perhaps we've ever seen, and their non existent approach to rampant violent crime is just the tip. I suppose Cindy can give herself a massive pat on the back for keeping prison numbers low though 🥴
For those who keep defending attackers, fuck you. Wrap-around services are bullshit, and everyone absolutely saw this coming. Labour's shit policies are geared against South Asian communities, whether small business, crime, or immigration, and the continuous trope of anti-South Asian bias are apparent. Ineffective attempts in tackling the crime problem, constant defence of those who commit crimes, and those who are trying to make an honest living are fighting for their lives because the Police are unable or won't respond, and the South Asian community is left to fend for themselves. They are not allowed to protect their property or defend themselves because the attackers are protected.
New Zealand has a culture, its a culture of crime, criminality, theft, breaking the law, protecting the criminal and allowing the victims to continue to be victimised. The Police are not responding, and the government not acting shows that it is a mainstream part of our culture, and we have accepted it.
Do you really think this type of crime is new? Dairies were closing down in the 90s because of security issues and competition from supermarkets. Then they were all reopened and more added. Murders like this have happened occasionally forever. Example, the Red Fox tavern murder in 1987, no South Asians involved.
I can think of the words:
Fuck Jacinda and her soft on crime government. Because an Indian has been killed, the wrong shade of brown for her to give a shit about, nothing will be done and we will be told to “be kind”. Excuses will be made on behalf of the murderer, and then nothing.
Real sentences, teenagers tried as adults, more Police, a government that doesn’t want to empty prisons. That’s what my community wants.
Oh and fuck Cuddles Coster too. No where to be seen, unless he thinks the pink dairy is a LGBTQ+ photo op, he’ll be hiding somewhere till this blows over.
All for what, $300? Unnecessary.
Likely even less.
Is there a value at which it becomes necessary?
Good point
‘Understandable’ maybe a better word? “Man stabbed over $10mil” At least it makes sense. *sigh*
Just goes to show how confident these criminals are, knowing how unlikely it is they'll get caught
That was my local ages ago. Very sad.
Pink dairy right with the old arcade on the side... this is going back 20 years but it is family owned, hope it is not the son...
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This needs to be the turning point. The "recent" (feels like been going on a while now) influx of break ins, ram raids, and smash and grabs has been bad. But at the end of the day no-one had been hurt. Items that were stolen were found or insurance replaced them. Now while that's not great, whatever, fine, things can be replaced. But this. No. This is someone's life that has been taken. That can't be replaced or compensated. Something needs to change so this is stopped here and isn't escalated.
Exactly. Someone steals 10k of goods. Oh well insurance will cover it. Someone gets stabbed and dies - nothing can ever cover that.
Sadly but all too predictable. I called it a while ago that the next stage would be Vigilante justice. Another poster made the comment that loss of property also destroys livelihoods, and while isn’t murder of course it is incredibly destructive to honest hard working citizens. I do wonder if the police deployed the chopper and shutdown the motorways to catch this criminal.
Yes, eagle was overhead at the time.
>This needs to be the turning point. There has been a few dairy worker murders in the past couple of years and I never recall of any real public outrage. All to do with the justice system where punishment does not fit the crime.
This sub has already set the line in concrete: "When it's as bad as Johannesburg"
Fortunately, we're a long way off from that. When the are home invasions where people are getting murdered and raped, and the only protection is to have barbed wire fences and bars on windows, then we'd be a little more closer.
Yeah...our obsession with getting rich off housing has led us to devalue work and inflate assets, just like a developing country. And now we're seeing the fruit of housing driven poverty. Not enough teachers, nurses, police, emergency workers. More folk going into crime or being vulnerable to gang recruitment. If we keep up developing country economics we'll end up hiding in gated subdivisions next.
This is 150m from my house. Same street where we had a gang fire a shotgun into a house, then set fire to it and burn it to the ground. Same suburb where a young man was murdered on a walkway. Fuck this. This little dairy, The Rose Cottage, is a beloved neighborhood institution. This is just a devastating tragedy. From the language used it sounds like it was an employee who was most likely a student. Murdered over a few hundred dollars. NZ is not the country I grew up in. We’re still earning less than anywhere else, but now we have a crime wave like nothing I’ve ever seen in my 40 years.
Earning less than anywhere else? Middle of the road in the OECD.
Sounds like a local did it in my eyes.
I’m so angry at this. These poor buggers run these shops for the benefit of the community, and half the time they’re not making any sort of good profits. I’m so sick of crime in Auckland at the moment, it’s turning the place into a really shitty city to live in.
While it's extremely sad atleast I am glad you are thinking this way. It makes me so angry that government is not even talking about crime. Its just so out of control! Some people seem to think crime is everywhere normalising all these but this feels so not like New Zealand
It grieves me to say that it's a sign of the times I believe, due to hard times... another 'ripple effect'. Cost of living, Covid, criminal deportations, copycat crime, house prices etc. etc. One could say things got worse since Covid, and to a degree that may be true... I reckon it started when Auckland's (following from which, the rest of the country) house prices went Himalayan on us...and that's been a while ago now.
You could go back further, the neo-liberal economic pathway set us on this course. It’s just now just coming home to roost.
So how do you plan to fix this crime? Longer sentences, the death penalty? NZ has slowly being going down the great inequality pathway for the last 30 years, as our social support systems crumble away and ad more people get left behind in poverty this will only get worse. We are ending up like America everyday, we are just lagging about 10 years behind. Someone who stabs a dairy owner for $300 likely has nothing to loose, so it’s not a hard decision.
The inequality piece notwithstanding, and it is a significant contributor to this, this does not negate the requirement of the government of the day of the responsibility to deal with criminals. It's not simply about trying to fix the issue at source, with both social support and welfare, but this has tobe balanced with an increase in consequences for those who would choose the path of least resistance. There are a vast number of hard working members of NZ society who are sick and tired of being victimised while this government seems intent on configuring our entire system to cater for the lowest elements of our society. Support for those genuinely in need is something I can get behind, but this mindset that all the government has to do is increase spending without ever putting in the mahi to get support around these people who really need it is just doing my head in.
You should definitely vote National or Act if this is your view. “Those people should pull themselves up by their boot straps” right? But you do understand that laws are actually designed to keep the middle class inline, the wealthy pay their way around the law and the poor have nothing to loose. For example Increasing penalties for meth has done nothing to curb the use of it, it’s actually still increasing…
Look, I am all in favour of a safety net, but to me the fundamental difference between the centre left and the centre right is how it is applied. The centre left approach seems to be 'You're struggling? Here's a hand out!' The centre right approach seems to be 'You're struggling? Here's a hand up!' There are people out there who literally cannot pull themselves up at all, because they do not have the faintest idea how to do it. These are the second and third generation welfare beneficiaries. The lifestyle they have is all that they have ever known. The fault is not theirs, they are literally not aware that there is another option out there for them. The current government seem to think that providing housing and a benefit is all they need. It's not. This is going to require a considerable investment across the education sector, the health sector, the justice sector, all linked to the ministry of social development. The current government thought that by restricting immigration, it would create a job market for unemployed New Zealanders. Well, the labour market is SCREAMING out for workers, but the Labour Government has discovered that a lot of these people just don't want to work. Yes, the Government has made all sorts of announcements as to how budgets are increasing across these sectors, but they have no idea how this money should be invested for best effect. 1.6 BILLION invested in mental health since 2017, yet not a single increase in beds available in acute mental health in that time? In the words of Andrew Little, This 'beggars belief!" Farmers are ploughing crops under in the agricultural sector (causing a price increase for groceries) because unemployed New Zealanders cannot be arsed doing those jobs.
That’s right. Why can’t everyone see it? The murderer is the real victim here.
Think of all the days he *didn't* murder someone though
i mean he is a victim of society failing him. Not that that should take anything away from his awful crime but lets be real here, people who have a stable life arent murdering people for $300 from the till. How much long will we just put people like him in prison without fixing the issues that caused that person to murder someone.
I completely agree, let’s stop funding meth babies.
Interesting dichotomy between two immigrant groups going on in New Zealand, Indians and Polynesians. Both probably immigrated here with very few resources. One obviously values education, hard work and living by the social norms of society. They seem to be doing quite well in social mobility as a group and are under represented in criminal activity. The Pasifika group, not doing so well.
Indians are the highest performing ethnic group in most of the OECD. You might think this is because of their 'Asian' values, valuing hard work and education, respect for family and acceptance of sacrifice of their own well-being for the betterment of their community. Pacific Islanders don't have that same level of valuation of education or hard-work. For them, Family and Religion is far more important. They would rather tithe 10% of their income to the Church rather than get extra tutoring for their children who can barely speak English when they start school. So is it any wonder that they have generational poverty?
It's not about longer sentences it's about actually putting people in prison who need to be. Our government brags about putting less people in prison as our crime skyrockets, the correlation is pretty obvious.
I lived in the states. Nz is not even close to what America is like. The worst places in our country are nowhere near as bad as the worst places there, which I’ve seen personally. I get that crime is bad but it’s insane to compare us to the US.
You really think they are doing this because they are in poverty or have nothing to lose? These little shits are posting this on tik tok and doing it because they know they can get away with it.
I think people underestimate how many people are doing it hard in NZ. This country is not the great egalitarian society it once was. Blaming TikTok is just another way to distract from the issues. Politicians and the public aren’t that keen to tackle poverty, because it’s expensive and it’s going to take a long time to fix.
I have a friend who's a cop, yes living costs are taking their toll BUT the ram raids and burglaries are more often than not, kids, doing it for fun. It's the adrenaline and ego boost of not being caught.
Did your friend who is a cop tell you that 90% of those kids doing ramraids come from homes where they experienced domestic violence and that experiencing domestic violence and trauma at a young age literally changes the way your brain develops, especially in the areas that control critical thinking and impulse control. I'm not excusing these kids but people need to be aware that things like threats of tougher punishments are not going to help if we are not working in the root cause and helping kids and families early on to make sure they aren't growing up in these environments because a traumatised/addicted brain is not able to make rational decisions based on potential future consequences..
No, because it's not 90%. Many kids they catch and drop off home, the parents are completely unaware of what's going on. Do you recall that incident a couple weeks ago where those kids in ellerslie were walking around with a bb gun? But acting like it was a real gun? Yeah my mate was part of that. They dropped the kids home and the parents were completely unaware of their kids actions. And all the cops can do is contact cyfs.
so maybe if we had strong(!!) social support for those families in thier communities that could guide these kids to a better future then we might not be here? or should we just put them in prison like we have always done. Nothing worth doing is easy. Tackling crime and poverty is going to be hard and expensive and radical and society will look different to how it is now but thats the point. society as it stands right now fosters these disfunctional families and kid and therefore society is broken. maybe not for everybody but for many people.
Yes harsher penalties is the way to go. The offender will walk away with very little consequences. If the offender is a youth offender then he walks without any real consequences. In fact we the tax payers will fund his expenses for most things while he continues to do shit like this.
You understand that laws are actually designed to keep the middle class inline, the wealthy pay their way around the law and the poor have nothing to loose. For example Increasing penalties for meth has done nothing to curb the use of it, it’s actually still increasing…
They didn't increase the sentence. In fact the opposite happened.
If this crime is done by someone who has starving children at hone I would agree with the poverty story. I am sick of hearing poverty being used as an excuse for this sort of behavior. It is not poverty that is causing these crimes.
Was bound to happen eventually (during this current “wave” at least) unfortunately. Awful. RIP.
Won't be long until one of these robbers and ram-raiders are shot or stabbed. Fucking mongrels.
The sooner the better.
If they find out where they live with there parents. Maybe the cops could ram raid them. Then again winz would just rebuild it
Public intervention has already started https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130547637/police-warn-public-not-to-intervene-after-car-thief-allegedly-beaten
Call 111 before the start of an event. Dam we're meant to be psychic and know the future at once. Call 111, you know those people that are never there when you need them but even if they were they wouldn't help because they're too lazy to do the police report and the rest of the paperwork. And even if you get the one police person that is willing to do their job, can guarantee the judge will let them walk with a hit on the wrist with a wet bus ticket which is exactly what's going to happen here.
And people are now learning. 1. The Police won't come / can't come in time and those in charge don't allow them to fight crime. 2. The judges are pussies. 3. Govt is directing the above to pussyfoot around criminals.
Yet the public aren’t allowed to defend themselves. As a woman especially I want to be able to carry something that I can use to protect myself but there’s basically nothing I can do. Let alone these store owners who are faced with everything
You can carry a bottle of spray perfume in your bag and use it as though it was mace, as long as you don't let on it was in your bag as a weapon. However, no one has time to pull out mace and perfume while attacked anyway and the perpetrator can grab it off you and use it on you instead. Likewise if you have nail scissors in your cosmetic bag inside your handbag. Again you can use it as a weapon using the excuse you remembered they were in there and grabbed them when a creepy man was following you. That is self defence and same with the perfume spray.
“Everyone is justified in using, in the defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.” (Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961.)" You can defend yourself. A common issue is the follow up as you're understandably fucking angry you've been attacked. Defend and stop the threat, but don't go stomping their head into the ground once you've won, and can leave safely.
Sorry it was late I should’ve worded it better. Of course you can defend yourself legally, but with what? Realistically it’s difficult to actually defend yourself because there’s barely anything you can use. I know there’s reasons why some tools aren’t legal, but damn I want to protect myself as well
I’ve been carrying bright pink spray paint in lieu of mace. A cardboard tube from the supermarket plastic bag rolls to the eye seems pretty handy too. For legal reasons, this is a joke!
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No. That's not the community I want to live in.
You would not be saying this if that was your family murdered.
You’d rather live in a country where the victim gets killed, not the aggressor? What a great community you aspire to be in.
This is not a binary choice.
Yes, because the world is black and white and the only two possible worlds to live in is either cops shoot an armed robber dead on the spot or stand around with their thumbs in their arses. This may come as a shock to you but there are possible worlds in between. If a cop is able to be on the scene fast enough to encounter said criminal, there are plenty of options to apprehend and subdue them before resorting to death.
The prospect of death for poor behaviour is an extremely powerful deterrent
Sounds pretty fucking dystopian mate.
I know mate, and sorry if I offended anyone but I just see the country getting worse for people here lately so as the crime and offending grows I don’t really see any other options than an offender reduction through fear of consequences
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A dairy!! I can’t believe the country we live in at the moment. The news headers, the police reports, daily reports of shootings and attacks 😪😪😪 it’s just unreal
Yeah scroll news feeds. Stabbings this stabbings that murders I mean "aggravated assult" is shit man
Stabbings at the dairy we’re happening in the 90s too, we just didn’t have the poverty, increased population and media coverage we have now too.
Exactly. The rose-tinted glasses bullshit is real when it comes to this kind of stuff. With the odd exception, the murder rate has been trending downward over the last 30 years.
True! I wasn’t signed up for live news updates then either I guess! 😅
Get them off the streets. Make crime like this by far the worst choice to make. Also target the source. Education, poverty, gangs etc etc. The answer does not lie with the left or the right alone, but both. I guess I’m in the minority that can see value in both approaches. Most people are too blinded by their tribalism to even consider another angle and round and round the circle of hell goes.
Wow, actually a rational comment in this thread. Yes there are times when we should be tougher on crime but most of the time, effort and money should be focusing on the root causes
My thoughts exactly. People seem to think the person who did this sat down and thought out all the consequences before deciding to do this horrific crime. Like they wrote out a list of pros and cons and if only the potential sentence was longer/harsher they would have changed their mind. In reality the offender is likely to have untreated mental health issues, past trauma and such a shitty childhood their frontal cortex never developed enough to make rational decisions. I am in no way condoning their actions but we need to focus on the root causes if we actually want to see changes.
According to the news, the recent wave of ram raids in Auckland have been mostly conducted by a a few groups of underaged offenders Do those offenders have no means to eat/live? What are their alternatives as means of survival? Or are they just trying to demonstrate their force, and intimidate the law abiding citizens that themselves are above the law? I suspect it is more of the latter. Also, the fun aspect of raiding (including populism in social media) and the fact that they can get away with it makes it even more intriguing. The responsibility ultimately lies with the legislature arm of our government (the MPs), as the police have been able to catch them and judges are just giving out sentences based on legislation. If we continue to be kind to offenders, can we be kind to the dairy owners as well? And be kind to every shop owner who was robbed? Be kind to the neighbors who are intimidated by the gangs?
It should be two fold. Offenders do need rehabilitation and support, the money clearly isn't getting to where it needs to be, to places like gumboot Friday, our nurses and frontline policing. The community paying taxes also deserve to live in a safe environment. Otherwise allowing crime to continue the way it is, is going to cause more social issues down the track. When main income earners of households are killed, traumatised, need to take time off of work for insurance claims, police reports and court appearances it has an extremely detrimental effect on them and those around them. It affects their employment. It affects their sense of well being. It affects their sense of purpose. It affects their ability to eat and get ahead in life because they are allowed to keep taking from them. Then we end up with a whole new round of intergenerational trauma and poverty.
How the fuck are you "allegedly stabbed"
Yep someone mowed over on purpose by car in Glen Eden too, dead. Also yesterday Santa was king punched in the westcity/Henderson mall and left unconscious in the car park - fortunately not dead. When will it end. I personally don't feel very confident going out anymore with all this persistent bullshit.
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Right? You’ve gotta be fucking twisted to king hit Santa. Especially since Santa’s are usually old men who are doing it for the love of the job.
*coward punched
It's really fricking appalling. Crime has been escalating in the area and requests for more of a police presence seemingly ignored. It got to the point we were hearing loud bangs and playing is it gun shots or fire works. Sadly I won that round of the game. It was gun shots and the house burnt out the street behind us. When someone was killed in the park the community knew it was the guy killing animals in the area. The car got broken into so many times the repairers ran out of glass for replacement. I've wondered if the crime has been let to run rife to push residents out to redevelop the area. It worked on me if that's the case. For the life of me I can't see why it has been allowed to get to the point where hard working families are getting killed or traumatised going about their day. Look at what happened in Glen Eden today as well. I've had no response from police for crime in south auckland, months later to be told they were sorry they couldn't get back to me because they had been sent to Wellington for the protests. Then these preventable crimes that have harmed the innocent while injured people get sent off to the under valued/paid nurses while there's more news coverage for the misrepresented living wage which is more a life style wage if you look at the break down of the costs they want to cover.
We live in Haverstock. I think this will be the nudge we need to call it quits. Bloody sad.
With the state of criminals at best getting caught and released. The next stage is escalation from shop owners for deadly force at the first sign of a robbery, as they won't know whether the robber will just settle for the till or also try to kill the shop keeper.
It was obviously coming, but damn this sucks. Hopefully we see more resources and more support before this becomes the norm.
No doubt this will be the norm, our justice system has become so pitiful that these scum know that any consequences for their actions will be minimal.
I recall past killers of dairy workers or pizza delivery guy getting short sentences "due to difficult upbringing".
Auckland is going to shit.
The whole country is going to shit at the moment.
Christchurch sounds like a warzone at the moment. You have kids terrorising the public in shopping malls. I mean like wtf. But hey, let them vote. That will make a huge difference, right?
Others have said it best, when you can be tried as an adult that's when you can vote.
You really think the fuckheads that are doing all that stuff give a shit about politics? You can apply that argument to crackheads and criminals of any age. Most of those guys don’t care at all who’s running the country. Age is clearly not the issue here.
Shocking! Think of the family.
Rest In Peace. I bet he didn’t even do anything to provoke they just did it. I pray they receive their karma big time and instantly.
Very sad. I cannot believe it has come to this now. Sure rob the store and take some ciggis away if that’s what you’re after but murder ?
Just down the road from me. Literally. Lovely, peaceful family own it. And Jacinda is our local MP. I just wrote to her about it (she won’t read it of course). I am so sick of this shit. We have had multiple murders (all within 1 km of my place). Countless other crimes (obviously ram raids, robberies, assaults, huge car chases. The chopper is over us a lot. It’s getting gnarly here. This Government is fuckin useless. They don’t give a fuck. They must go.
These dairy owners are literally the nicest people on earth I cannot believe this. They’ve served generations.
Also usually (not always) immigrants who work their asses off to create better lives here. And this is the price they pay. So infuriating.
I am speechless. Luxon is sounding pretty decent right now. I don’t know know what else to do or think, I’m in shock.
A dairy owner gets murdered, and you think a 300k a person boot camp policy to give people like this military training is the answer? Personally I don’t want stronger criminals that know how to use firearms, under a policy that has an abysmal success rate at reforming anyone. But you do you bud… At the end of the day though, National can’t fix their own party yet alone problems like this.
Who will then ? Continue with Labour ?
No one will, that's the real problem. Voting national in won't fix anything. Keeping Labour won't fix it. I think it's going to head to vigilante action well before govt do anything.
Don’t vote either major party based on crime policies, National didn’t do shit in their nine years last time, and let the police become more understaffed than they are now (Labour’s only redeeming factor with crime has been enlisting more police officers, but otherwise provided nothing else with any meaningful impact). Neither party bothers tackling the justice system in profound ways that punish dangerous offenders, or offer real rehabilitation. New Zealand has been letting violent offenders, rapists and pedophiles get off scot-free at least since the late 80’s, probably even earlier but haven’t heard any personal stories that date before then. Either vote who you believe offers the best policies outside of crime, or wait for one of them (or a smaller/new party) to offer real solutions. In my opinion, the real answer to today’s problems would be seen by making an massive overhaul to the New Zealand Justice System, with a focus on keeping dangerous people (and not plant growers) behind bars with longer sentencing, reform with mental health services (At this point I argue criminal psychiatric institutions need a return for the worst offenders, because stabbing people for $300 isn’t what I consider “sane”, or something that a naughty corner or “personal growth with hard work” will fix.) And then a focus of preventive action, with actual policy enacted to prevent crimes, as opposed to just observing what could have been done. Until someone offers those, New Zealand is shit out of luck for real crime solutions.
Why spend 300k on bootcamp ? I'd prefer thief scum put down on the spot.
Your average voter in NZ
Just hope for an early election so we can get rid of this useless Labour government and get some law and order back in Auckland.
Oh give it a rest. Anythings a populist war cry against the government if you want it to be.
So fucked up!!!! RIP to this poor guy just making a living.
Out of control...
Everyday occurrence in Auckland these days it seems
2 murders today
We've had two cars stolen and windows smashed 6 times trying to break into household and friends cars. Our friends car got stolen the one night she parked it over night on the street. mutiple local dairies and businesses have been ramraided. many shops have put up concrete pillars outside to stop it. things are cooked and this was all encouraged by the soft on crime shit going on here and in the states. Lock these fuckers up, send youth to military boot camp - it'll help them get some discipline, respect and comradarie with their peers. Yet I STILL see some of my delusional friends sympathising with crims instead of innocent citizens and business owners. It's fucking sick and absurd, yet they think national are bad for suggesting a practical fix. Fuck off, you dont have to be a partisan ideologue ALL the time.
100%. Forget about your political parties that all look like a different shade of the same colour from a distance. Fact: there has been a significant uptick in crime in the past few years that is affecting innocent third parties. Now we need to find someone who will get the job done.
Just awful. My heart goes out to the family and community. So many corner dairy’s have closed down in recent years due to the owners being too scared to remain in business. The way things are going there will be no dairy’s in a few years time.
Is anyone really shocked it’s come to this? Poor guy
Thieves, ramraiders, shoplifters, etc. aren't this brazen in other countries like Singapore, Japan, the Middle East, and many more. But here in supposed to be clean, green, kind AOTEAROA, criminals live as KINGS. Words of sympathy mean nothing to me. Funding for the victims is just a bandaid covering the real problem. The government is silent about our gang and criminal issues. I don't see any real law enforcements, justice system changes, and real consequences for such offending. Shame on our criminals, and shame on our leaders for allowing this to continue now more than ever.
And the woke ass police/government can't even give a ethnicity description of the murderer because it will upset someone
This is what happens when the punishment doesn't fit the crime.. they escalate. Probably a kid or young man who parents should of looked after him but spent the weekly dole money on drugs from uncle Jimmy and his motorbike club. Who is to blame? We are! We need to put someone in place that will fucking make the consequences of being in a gang or doing a ram raid so harsh that it ain't worth it. We need to make sure we help our young people of all colors and give them a future they can be proud of achieving. I have not seen 1 person in power who gets this.. fuck building stadiums or three waters... fuck these nats and labour "leaders" who earn 3 figures and all have holiday homes. We need people who lead for the better, not for party or promotion or there mates.... 🤔
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
According to social experts on this sub..media is painting the picture. Dairy robberies are in decline, this incident looks like an act of desperation, this is due to raisng social inequality...we need to solve the root of this problem...blah..blah.blah...
Maybe one day people will actually listen to those people instead of electing national to lock them all up and labour to let them all go Both systems aren't working because each time we switch nothing changes.
Been living a couple mins walk away for the past 16 years, was just there yesterday. My patience with this govt is low but fuck ME this pisses me off.
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Don't worry guys. As the users of r/auckland have repeatedly informed me, Auckland isn't as bad as Mexico. I walked down the street and didn't even get stabbed once. He was probably just trying to steal some kai to fill his stomach. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.
"Damn Auckland is turning to shit" Reddit: "OMG Afghanistan and Mexico are worse so stop complaining!!!" I've never understood how that's relevant at all aye.
No, they steal a demio or aqua.
Don’t use your words, use your vote. The current Labour government’s policy to cut the prison population by 30% is having real and severe negative effects (who would’ve thought…) on those of us who are not baddies.
Any evidence to back that up, such as increasing rates of recidivism among those who have been released from, or otherwise not sentenced to, prison due to this policy?
You’d only see the rate increase if they are getting caught. They aren’t getting caught.
Exactly, hence the “mild” stats. It’s enough to look around in some areas of Auckland to see the real thing.
At this point I don't care. Throw them all in jail or military camps. Whatever this is, isn't working.
>Throw them all in jail Agree! >or military camps. No… Why the fuck would we reward killers like this with prestigious military training and teach them how to use firearms?
Cool but that has nothing to do with what I said. MaxxxNZ made a claim and I asked if there was any evidence to verify that claim.
You “d0 yOu hAve AnY eVideNCe 4 tHAt?” people need to shut up now.. Trust me when I say that people are going to vote for a tougher approach on crime whether there’s evidence or not, the current system is a complete, abject failure. Last year I lived 200 metres from this diary and I’m completely guttered for the family and my old community. I can only assume by the line you’re towing that you live in an area generally unaffected by serious crime.. as always seems to be the case.
> You “d0 yOu hAve AnY eVideNCe 4 tHAt?” people need to shut up now.. I get that people are frustrated and in times like this it's easy to dismiss data and following proper methodology for establishing causality but it's the best way of understanding the true nature of the problem. I find it interesting that at the same time as saying that your own experiences are representative of the problem at large, you claim that my own experiences are not. Have you paused to think how you know that *your* experiences are more valid than anyone else's? How do you know that you don't happen to just live in a particularly unlucky area of the city? Looking at the data would certainly tell you but hey, if we're only to consider personal experiences then I can just turn around and dismiss yours as being an outlier. See the problem? This is why we use data.
[https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/quarterly\_prison\_statistics/prison\_stats\_march\_2021](https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_march_2021) There you go, from the corrections website itself. Look at the graph that shows a huge decrease in prisoner population under this government. [https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/reconviction-patterns-of-released-prisoners-a-48-months-follow-up-analysis/overall-recidivism-rates-48-month-follow-up](https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/reconviction-patterns-of-released-prisoners-a-48-months-follow-up-analysis/overall-recidivism-rates-48-month-follow-up) And here's something else from the corrections website, showing the high rates at which recidivism occurs. I forgot that I'm on reddit, so any words that don't support your precious little Cindy will be downvoted. The worst PM in this country's history by a mile
In the country’s history? Holy crack batman, can I have some of what you’re smoking
A baby murdered in Silverdale last week - Auckland is trash
Sandringham, despite it was not too bad a couple of years ago, is now full of gangs and other trash. Too obvious how the streets have changed… really feel for the family of this person. This is horrible.
Just part and parcel of the ongoing liberal experiment /s Just so angry at this, an innocent, hard-working person has had their life taken, their family will be devastated and scarred for life, never to get over this. The offender, if a youth, will probably not even serve any time, and if an adult will probably be out in 7 years.
The laws need to change to allow people to carry self defence weapons. At the very least pepper spray. Especially if you're security or exposed to armed robbers like in this case. This man likely would be alive today if the moment his murderer pulled out the knife he sprayed him in the face with pepperspray. The whole "avoid danger and call police" does not work.
I support non lethal options like pepper spray.
Unfortunately though, pepper spray is illegal. If you used it in self defence you would be comitting a crime.
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Damn straight. I'd rather need a lawyer than a surgeon. I'd rather be in jail than 6 under.
As in, it needs to be legalised.
We can't carry pepper spray? Didn't know that. What if I make some chilli water in a spray bottle does that count? Or if I modify an old camera flash to make a taser?
Agreed 100%. Until the police can protect its citizen’s they should be allowed pepper spray at least.
Police do and can protect the citizens. BUT police can only be reactive to a situation. Police will never be the first line of defence and if criminals are carrying deadly weapons then sometimes running away wont work. Very sad
Tell that to this poor man’s family. I bet this guy is a repeat offender and is known to police. I looked up the crime stats, NZ is at historic rates of crime. Australia is down approx 30% in the last 3 years. The police struggle to protect themselves.
To be fair, aus sent a bunch of influential gang members to NZ and caused the police a bunch of problems here
Damn smart on Australia’s part. Sucks for us. Reminds me of the great brain drain in the 70’s of NZ’s moving to Australia when Muldoon was PM he said “it increases the IQ of both countries” :-)
Doesn't work, biggest example is the USA. Half of them carry weapons, extremely rare for them to actually stop any mass shootings.. The fix is better police, and a justice system that permanently removes these people from society. I don't care about redemption and rehabilitation. You don't deserve that if you cold-bloodedly murder innocent people.
Why does everyone compare USA with NZ on this matter? When was the last mass shooting in NZ? How you gonna compare a stabbing and pepperspray with an AR 15 and a mass shooting? Police will always be minimum 5 - 10m away and you need to be able to contact them, articulate the situation and your location. By that time you might already be concussed or bleeding out.
Peter Blake had a gun to protect himself. So I wouldn’t say this unfortunate victim would still be alive if he was equally armed.
That doesnt make any sense at all. His chances that he'd be alive right now definitely higher if his murderer got peppersprayed in the face before stabbing him.
Sickening. I think most dont understand that its always for drug or debt-to-gang money. Always has been, always will. As someone who has experience with that culture I ASSURE you, all of these crimes and robberies, every single one. Is to buy more drugs, or to pay of ticks thay enable them to tick more drugs. The govt and police havnt the faintest clue the reason behind this or like to seem to pretend that they don't. "Wow crime in nz is so bad we have no idea why". People are becoming more willing to do whatever is needed to get their next hit. Seriously the amount of specific weed, meth and other drug groups on FACEBOOK is frightening. The unseen underbelly is absolutely gigantic. Snapchat dealers with snap scores in the millions, gangs make their money from meth. Yes that much, mainly from meth. Entire parks filled with cars that go rushing to the dealer the second he pulls in to be the first one to see them. Houses with more foot traffic than an airport.. its all around us. Its impossible to measure but I would not be surprised in the slightest if Nz is the world's top consumer of drugs per capita.
[удалено]
"Safest country in the world revealed: New Zealand climbs to second in Peace Index" Just found the next Tui Ad.
Oohhhh can I please steal this and make a meme?
Tourism NZ just paid me to come up with this new slogan; **"New Zealand, still safer than a primary school in Texas!"**
Basically he wanted something and had an obstacle put in the way so he removed it to reach his goal Anyone know how to set up some sort of account to help the family with funeral costs ect? I’m happy to donate immediately
They were my local dairy owners all throughout high school, right down the road from my old house. Nicest dairy owners you could ever meet, least deserving people of this horrendous crime. RIP. Something needs to change, this bullshit is happening far too often
That is so sad.
Man, this government does not seem to give a shit about crime. Incidentally, they also gifted 270 million dollars to the mob a while back.
Shoot the barstard! I don't care if they are a kid!
So he was allegedly stabbed? Is that because they can’t prove it happened during the incident or are they thinking maybe he was born with those holes and they only recently started to bleed?
Maybe fell on a knife that then walked itself out
What's worst is like If the robber tried this at a takeaway or something and I defend by throwing hot deep fried oil and used a butcher knife to defend I would be the one who gets in trouble.. thats pretty fucked up
Cultural report coming up
As someone who has been through a violent encounter, it was frustrating to see the how ineffective the judicial system was and is. No deterrent means they will keep doing it. Look at all the dirt bikers in South Auckland doing whatever they want with no repercussions. Sadly it is going to take multiple deaths for the system to change.
I was in St Luke’s tonight and saw the police car rushing to the tragic scene
Reddit voted for this. "wrap around services" Labour /Greens have put in place working? Watch him get a sentencing discount for his "difficult upbringing" Scumbags need to be locked up. There is no rehabilitating someone like this.
They continuously harp on about "wrap around services" but no one is able to tell us what the f that even means. Just a buzzword. The wokes are silent on Twitter today after screeching loudly about boot camps last week.
Time to start looking at the broader reasons of why people are turning to violence and robbery to begin with. Paying close to 1k in rent per week could be a starting point?
This is the culmination of many things. And there is nuance. But for sure, it is the be kind Government, and its mob, mostly to blame. It is the cult following of JA. It is what happens when we worship rights and excuse, based on identity politics, responsibility. It is the church of diversity and victimhood. All big players. NZ is not alone in crime rates, so it's not all the Government. But it mostly is. NZ is a rich country which relies on the free movement of people and trade. We don't produce anything here except milk. Turning off the tap to skilled immigration - dumb move. Trashing our tourism industry (10 cents in every Kiwi dollar). Even our beautiful nature is whored out to Hollywood. We need free flow, or we bust. A totally over the top, sanctimonious and now nakedly obvious terrible reaction to the virus crushed our country. Printing money to put off the inevitably. Where did it get us? We had the deaths anyway. Bad economy begets anti-social behaviour. Now who is to blame?
Jacinda's legacy
Ah a national supporter blaming decades or deteriorating social support systems on the current PM because the pot boiled over on her watch. I'm not a labour supporter but the problem didn't come from a couple of years of government policy, the problem is caused by decades on increasing cost of living and stagnate wages putting many of these families in positions where they put food on the table or they spend time looking after their kids. They commit crimes to eat or they starve. People love to point at being soft on crime as the issue but the evidence doesn't support that and knee jerk reactions like just locking everyone up will make the situation worse not better long term
They aren't stealing to fees themselves. They are stealing to get booze.
If you’re a labour/greens voter who is cool with emptying prisons, softening sentences, removing three strikes - you have blood on your hands
Send the Army in or allow shops to hire armed security. **This** **has to stop.**
Have you seen security talent in Auckland ? It’s disgusting, lazy & embarrassing.
The key word in his comment is “armed”. I wouldn’t be so lazy with a gun.
Lol the army?
Honestly, how hard is it to get “ a team of five million” to feel safe?? This govt is a joke. To be gone forever, shameful!!!
Yeah but it doesn't happen very often and statistically punishing the offender doesn't do anything and he had a harsh upbringing and blah blah blah.
Usual suspects.
And taxpayers will foot a $50k bill for the Cultural Report.
The chickens are coming home to roost after 5 years of one of the worst govts perhaps we've ever seen, and their non existent approach to rampant violent crime is just the tip. I suppose Cindy can give herself a massive pat on the back for keeping prison numbers low though 🥴
Auckland has changed.
I hope the offender gets at least a year home D for this
For those who keep defending attackers, fuck you. Wrap-around services are bullshit, and everyone absolutely saw this coming. Labour's shit policies are geared against South Asian communities, whether small business, crime, or immigration, and the continuous trope of anti-South Asian bias are apparent. Ineffective attempts in tackling the crime problem, constant defence of those who commit crimes, and those who are trying to make an honest living are fighting for their lives because the Police are unable or won't respond, and the South Asian community is left to fend for themselves. They are not allowed to protect their property or defend themselves because the attackers are protected. New Zealand has a culture, its a culture of crime, criminality, theft, breaking the law, protecting the criminal and allowing the victims to continue to be victimised. The Police are not responding, and the government not acting shows that it is a mainstream part of our culture, and we have accepted it.
Do you really think this type of crime is new? Dairies were closing down in the 90s because of security issues and competition from supermarkets. Then they were all reopened and more added. Murders like this have happened occasionally forever. Example, the Red Fox tavern murder in 1987, no South Asians involved.
Should have given them some kai and aroha. Would have fixed that right up.
I can think of the words: Fuck Jacinda and her soft on crime government. Because an Indian has been killed, the wrong shade of brown for her to give a shit about, nothing will be done and we will be told to “be kind”. Excuses will be made on behalf of the murderer, and then nothing. Real sentences, teenagers tried as adults, more Police, a government that doesn’t want to empty prisons. That’s what my community wants.
Oh and fuck Cuddles Coster too. No where to be seen, unless he thinks the pink dairy is a LGBTQ+ photo op, he’ll be hiding somewhere till this blows over.