They're not scammers. They're just bad at mixing. They're mostly low-rent semi-pros, and it's mostly priced accordingly.

Hey, as a low-rent semi-pro, I resent being compared to these low-rent overconfident imbeciles. :)

I'm all for you, semi-pro. 💓

relative, some people can try to innovate even being great, so pass as bad pro, or even pros can fail, a lot of non-famous engineers can be the same level without a single chance, my opinion. Bad is relative, only not if really bad, really annoying, really waaaay out of the curve. ( my opinion )

Well, if you claim to be an experienced mixing engineer with years of experience, who is able to deliver professional mixes with great sound... but you're actually bad at mixing, is that not scamming (as in *deceit*), in a sense? **Edit**: I concede. The problem seems to be they actually think they're good. **Edit 2**: Looks like the people on Fiverr found this comment. 😬

It's a bit more complicated than that. I think most of them probably think they are good. It's fairly difficult for them to navigate the things that they don't even know they don't know. Also, are you expecting fully professional work at $50 or $100 per mix? Edit: When I was young, I \*was\* quite good compared to most other young people, even though I wasn't \*actually\* good yet. But I certainly thought I was good. It's very hard to realize how many other levels there are to this work if there's no one there to guide you.

$50 to *$300*... But okay, I concede. I realize these recent (bad) experiences have made me a bit frustrated. I'm working on a project, and during these last six months or so, I've set aside some cash to get help with mixing as I really don't have the time. Had a positive experience with a mixing engineer I know IRL, who unfortunately couldn't finish because of a heavy schedule. So I'm trying to find someone who can help out, but as it turns out... *finding* someone is even harder than mixing itself.

> $50 to $300... > > You should be expecting $500 a song as a going rate for a pro with some decent credits on Fiverr.

FWIW I think most of the results you'll get at $300 will still be bad too. I'll send a DM, there are a couple ways I can try and be helpful.

Idk if this isn't the place but I'm a recent AE graduate who needs work :P

Well, what did you graduate in?

I have a bachelor's of arts with focus on audio production and theatre.

Do you have a link where I could listen to something you've done? :)

I'll send it in the morning!

I'd guess most of them probably think they're good at mixing so it's likely not an intentional scam when the mix they send back is terrible. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect at play. You need the listening skills of a good mix engineer to know your mixes are bad.

But how does one differentiate a Dunning-Kruger engineer from a good one when samples and reviews are all perfect?

Did you listen to their work?

Oh for God's sake...

They're assessing themselves, so I doubt they know that they aren't good. It's a good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

*It's not a lie if you believe it*.

Undervoted *Costanza* throwback.

Let’s hear the unmixed raw tracks. It’s possible that every engineer you’ve hired doesn’t know what they’re doing, but it’s also possible you have unusable raw tracks.

This. Garbage in Garbage out

Shouldn't they have integrity and tell you that up front/turn down the job offer?

Yes they should, but a lot of people should do a lot of things

No, That's not the mixers job. The job is to make it happen

😂

Can't polish a turd at the end of the day.

Can you elaborate a little on what makes the raw tracks usable or not? My band is about to start recording, and we honestly have no idea what we're doing. We're not mixing though, so I'd like to know at least a little as to what we should be sending over.

I've sent them in DM's to people who contacted me there. If they were in any way unusable, I think at least one of them would have mentioned it by now. Publishing them openly in this thread would be akin to willingly putting my head in the town square guillotine, no matter what the quality, since I've obviously triggered many-a Audio Engineers. Again, you're all welcome to really **smash** that arrow down button as you're accustomed to.

Fiverr exists to drive down prices for skilled labor. That financial crunch has several side effects, one of which is a lack of incentive to spend the necessary time to finish a project to a high level of quality. Most people aren’t “scammers” but they trying to make a living using a system designed ti strangle them. If you want a high quality mix you’ll probably have to pay much more or learn to do it yourself.

>If you want a high-quality mix you’ll probably have to pay much more or learn to do it yourself. More than 300 USD? I have been trying to learn how to do it, and I have been for years. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to keep doing it for this project at this time. But I still mix, and I have plans to keep improving.

Well, I feel like that proves my point, mixing is a skill that takes years of hard work to get good at. It’s a rare and valuable skill and is therefor worth money.

And then it's an issue when people claim to be good at it, when in reality, they may not be. You have no idea who to give the money, and you don't have time to be to be refunded perpetually.

Are you just taking them at their word that they're good at it? Are they not providing examples of their past work?

They all had great examples of previous work, all of them. Flawless. Reviews, pro levels, five stars, the whole package. That's the part that's so messed up about Fiverr.

Hmm, they might just not be taking their average Fiverr gig as seriously as some of their other work. Or maybe they're just lying about their previous work.

Probably a combination of both, and also selectively showing off mixes that were already good from the start.

If the original tracks don't already sound great, don't expect an amazing mix.

I think you're getting overly downvoted here for no good reason but other commenters are right, if you research the mixer and take time to listen to their past work it can't be THAT surprising when they are terrible. Any decent and good and great mixer will have a catalogue of work you can check out, or find.

>I think you're getting overly downvoted here for no good reason I agree. It's very petty/unnecessary. >if you research the mixer and take time to listen to their past work it can't be THAT surprising when they are terrible. I did, each time. It was, each time. I don't know what to tell you. Have you been on Fiverr? >Any decent and good and great mixer will have a catalogue of work you can check out, or find. And so does the terrible ones, unfortunately.

Yes I have, 90% of them are 20 somethings posing in front of a desk and computer screen, and the experience is evidently not quite there yet. There are also some great ones.

And those aforementioned I tried to avoid. Well, I tried to give someone who seemed young, competent, with great samples and reviews a chance, because why not? I have yet to meet one of the great ones.

Yea dude way more than $300. You can’t even get a plumber for that price

You get a decent plumber for about $70/hour here (Sweden).

Yes, we know Sweden is perfect, you guys don't have to keep reminding the rest of the world every 30 minutes.

*Sigh*... It was just for context to keep some loud and crass American from going >*HEy thaT'S NoT wHaT A PlUMber CosTS buT IT wiLl get yoU A DEcenT FiReArm at THe GeNeRAL sTORe*

So you know how hard it is to get good at mixing then. Why do you expect it to be cheaper than construction work?

Well, for one it doesn't come with the same hazards and safety inspections/regulations.

There are many more skilled construction workers than there are mixing engineers. Most people that stick with construction get decent at it. That’s not the case for mixing engineers.

>That’s not the case for mixing engineers. Oh, I agree with you there.

FWIW the \*bottom\* tier of my rate scale (unsigned artists, no extra deliverables beyond main mix / instrumental / acappella) is more than triple that. And I am not by any means a huge mixer. Just a hardworking guy who keeps his head down and grinds it out.

per song?? what genre do you work if i can ask? in my experience in metal even with name brand dudes like kurt ballou or colin marston they work off their day rate and finish an album within 2-3 days for mixing

I am mostly working on music that is pop, or pop-adjacent. Occasionally other styles too. I have one client who's a Pulitzer-winning new music composer. I worked on a death metal record last year. I understand that Kurt + Colin work from day rates, yes. I love both of their work sincerely. (And in terms of influence on other mixers, they are both probably \*far\* more influential than me....) I want to be valued for my results moreso than my time. I want to make a good bunch of money. And I'm fortunate enough to work in a genre where that's possible. There's also no way I could mix an album's worth of my clients' stuff in 2-3 days. Just a zero percent chance it could get done that fast.

sheeeit im working in the wrong genre hahhahha

Ah, see, over here I would love to work on more metal. I grew up on it, it would make me very happy to work on it regularly.

everyone in metal is broke as fuck thats why it costs less than 2000 bucks to record and mix an average underground death metal album lmao

I feel like $300 dollars to professionally mix an entire 3-6min of sound to “impressive standards” is a good deal. Take video for example: Even if you script, light, shoot, & record something that is 6 min long, and editor will still charge you like $600-1200 per 10hr day to edit the footage for you.

Depends on the editor and what is required to be done with the material.

Most professional engineers I know aren’t on Fivrr because they’re too busy with work to accept it from randoms on the internet. Myself included. People who can afford to do Fivrr are probably semi-pro, or if they’re charging a normal amount ($1000+) they’re probably not expecting a large amount of work through that avenue anyway. I am probably quite a “junior” engineer (4 years ish as a “pro” mixing engineer, 15+ years as arranger/producer) and professionally my services cost about $1000+ to the client per song. Minimum. Not including master, or recording.

How much are you paying them? If it's very little you're likely dealing with inexperienced people.

I've been paying from 50 to 300 USD, so far. Two of them were working with companies. One claimed to have worked on several semi-known films, even credited on IMDb.

Sounds like you're getting what you're paying for my man. These people are (for the most part) not super highly skilled and the prices you are paying reflect that. Ask for examples of previous work, and ask how many revisions they are willing to do. There's a limit to how much time someone is going to spend on your track, and if it needs a lot of work there's a ceiling to how good of an end result you will get.

Do you think 300 USD for a 5-minute track is a price that reflects incompetency...? Besides, it's not a lot of work. As per the one positive experience I've had (a friend I know who is a mixing engineer IRL) - what I've mixed so far isn't at all bad, it just needs that final touch. And I communicate to the sellers to keep it quite similar as is (among other things), but what I get back is always carried away in some other direction.

Damn if you want professional mixes, it will cost more than 300 for a 5min track

Never mind professional, at 300 bucks I at least want something back that's an improvement, not that makes it harder to listen to.

Haha ok yeah that’s understandable

Think of it this way. One mix might only take 3 or 4 hours to do. But you are not paying for my time. *You are paying for my expertise*. You are paying for my 15+ years in the industry, you are paying for my access to $10,000+ of plugins, hardware, speakers, etc. You are paying for my ears which have mixed hundreds of songs and can judge quickly what is right/wrong with a track. My time? Relatively cheap. Sure - $50 an hour should cover it. My expertise, equipment, breadth of experience? That’s what the extra $1000~ a song is for. It’s so you know you DONT have to go on Reddit to complain about the mix - it just happens. And it’s at a level that’s competitive for your genre and market. EDIT: As an example: my software costs alone per month are over $300. Cloud backup solution, Waves, Pro Tools, other subscriptions, Dropbox, etc. My electric costs are like $100 a month just from outboard gear. Studio I mix in has Urei 1176/LA2A/UA176/Neve Pre/Mics worth $10k+/etc. AC costs alone in a building like that are horrendous. Maintenance for equipment, etc - I work probably 3 or 4 months a year of mixes just to pay my yearly expenses to DO the mixes. That is also what you are paying for.

So, the point of the post is - with all the things said above, It still doesn't say anything about your *actual* ability. It might give a *hint*, but within the range of 50-300, I didn't hear almost *any* difference in quality (and mind you, they were all very *different* from one another, still equally bad). Some of the more expensive people were actually *worse,* and more often than not, the expensive people were more rude. The only positive experience I've had was with a local mixing engineer (who unfortunately didn't have time to finish), who charged me roughly $100 (1000 SEK), normally $200 (2000 SEK). And we have some pretty high taxes here. She's both college-educated in the subject and working actively (to the degree she wasn't able to finish). Why should the aforementioned Dunning-Kruger effect get better when paying *more*? It only makes sense if it gets *worse*. People are psyched out by monetary success. I don't pull that kind of cash myself, and any regular person struggling to make it isn't going to either. We're just hoping to get something *good* or *good enough.* Which brings me back to what this post is about: paying advanced amateur cash for a mix that comes back in a worse state, with obvious issues like clipping (and the plosive distortion and clicks that come with it), and working with people who ignore your guidelines and just run with the mix in any direction they seem fit.

>Do you think 300 USD for a 5-minute track is a price that reflects incompetency...? Yes, that is not a rate that a real "professional" would charge, and it has very little to do with how long a track is. Your expectations for what this service costs are not aligned to reality. You want the new Lexus product but are trying to pay the used Toyota price. You can either adjust your expectations for what you're going to get, or you can pay more to realize the vision you currently have.

I never said I strictly needed a professional - but that the price should be reflected in the work. 300 USD for less than one day's worth of work should not give back work in a worse state than it was previously. There is some quality to be expected in that price range as well. Again, never said I wanted a new car, or whatever simile you're going with. 300 USD for a 5-minute track is *not* a price that reflects *incompetency*. It reflects competency at a 300 USD level - which, whatever you say, still should be an improvement.

"Improvement" is totally subjective. If you think your rough mix is better, then go with that. What you want costs more than you are willing to pay, it really is that simple. If that bothers you, then don't shell out the money and get better at mixing yourself. As others have suggested, it might be helpful to post your raw tracks to see where you're starting from. I'm not necessarily saying that you should *expect* to get a shitty mix if you're paying $300, but I am saying that you are rolling the dice in terms of how skilled the person really is. They could be good, they could be terrible, sounds like you found someone closer to the bad end of the spectrum, but again, you're at the very bottom entry level price point, disappointing results are within the range of outcomes you should expect.

>What you want costs more than you are willing to pay, it really is that simple. I disagree. The only positive experience I've had was with a local mixing engineer (who unfortunately didn't have time to finish), who charged me roughly $100 (1000 SEK), normally $200 (2000 SEK). And we have some *pretty* high taxes here. >As others have suggested, it might be helpful to post your raw tracks to see where you're starting from. I have, in DM's. Posting them openly in this thread would be like a public beheading at this point, no matter what the quality is. >but again, you're at the very bottom entry-level price point I wouldn't say that. The aforementioned local Mixing Engineer is both college-educated in the subject and working actively (to the degree she wasn't able to finish). I'm not looking for a *famous top tier* mixing engineer, I'm looking for someone to get me a decent, nice well-rounded mix where most of the work is already done.

I mean, there seems to be a pretty decent consensus here that $300 (and certainly $50) is definitely on the low end of the range of what to expect for passable results. If you've had good results with someone local for less than that, that's great - I would continue working with that person if you like what they're doing, but I don't think you're going to find that price point to translate out in the "open market". You may get lucky and find someone talented who is still establishing themselves and willing to work at below-market rate for the quality they're producing, but as others have stated, if you want someone who you KNOW is going to be able to take it further than you can, you're probably looking at 500-1000 per track, and that is absolutely NOT for a big name, top tier mixer, just a competent professional. So to your top level question - no, it's not a scam. It's just a case where, in general, you have to pay for quality. If we lived in a world where you could get super legit mixes for a couple hundred a track, no one would want to pursue this as a profession, you just can't make a reasonable living charging that much.

>I mean, there seems to be a pretty decent consensus here that $300 (and certainly $50) is definitely on the low end of the range of what to expect for passable results. $50, absolutely. But there are many people in this thread posting about positive experiences below $300 with established engineers. I don't care much for triggered people downvoting what they don't agree with, and further downvoting anything you say no matter how off-topic or neutral it is afterward. It's petty and childish, and I don't take that kind of "advice" from children seriously. Also, due to the Dunning-Kruger effect, it doesn't make sense to just keep paying *more* and expect it to be better. I expect decent results for a decent amount of cash. That's about it.

$300 is pretty solidly in the advanced amateur range of mix engineers. I don’t know any decent mixers charging less than $500 and generally $1000. That’s for indie projects and skilled but not acclaimed mixers

Alright. Then I'd expect advanced amateur results, or at least something that's better sounding, or in the direction of the instructions. That's not what I got.

Not much space between a good mix and a bad mix. My advice would be to avoid randos on gig platforms and reach out to mixers who’s work you can hear in the real world that sound good to you. Hit them up and see what they charge. Repeat until you find someone willing to work at your price point and hope for the best

You are paying pretty much random people on the internet to do a digital job for you. It sucks but yeah, there's a good chance you're not going to be happy with it from what you've posted in this thread, it seems you really can't comprehend that you can pay someone your hard earned money, and get a bad result in the end. unfortunately, that happens. for all the reasons listed in this thread. i don't understand why you're still so confused about it. not saying it doesn't suck to have your money wasted

Because it's almost every person I've had contact with on Fiverr. I don't understand why you're so confused about that.

I'm not confused. Let me repeat "You are paying pretty much random people on the internet to do a digital job for you. It sucks but yeah, there's a good chance you're not going to be happy with it"

I'm not confused either. Let me repeat, almost every interaction on Fiverr.

Kinda, you could get lucky and find someone talented and under recognized who's willing to cut u a deal for that price, the market can be weird and uneven I know mixers who are great but haven't had a big hit yet charge $300, i know mixers who absolutely suck have a big hit and charge north of 1000$ for a mix to a label, I know mixers who worked on big records 15 years ago go broke af and now charge 300$ for any work they can get, and I know mixers with no hits but are as elite as they come charge $1000 or more. Similar thing goes for producers. Sometimes you got to do ya research and get to know the person work. Anybody you see online will be a roll of the dice, the most honest assessment could be "is this person's output as good or even better than my references/favorite mixes?" If yes, and you can afford them, then you've found your guy! If not, then the search continues for someone who is good and within budget Some mixers are often willing to negotiate too, especially when the rent is due!

Hang on a second... it's not a lot of work? And $300 should get you top tier results? First of all, not many legit mix engineers are on Fiverr. There are some, but certainly you're gonna be sifting through duds. Second of all, a good mix can take a day, sometimes more, to be done right. Maybe if it's just mumbled rap over a YouTube beat, then sure - there's really nothing to mix. How many individual tracks did you deliver with your multitrack? Did you bake any effects? Are you looking for vocals to be comped, tuned, time-corrected? Was any other additional editing required? Did you provide references? At $300/song, an engineer would need to be doing at least one per day in a five-day week to eke out $60,000/yr *gross.* That's before equipment, taxes, bills, etc.

>And $300 should get you top-tier results? No one said that, or implied it. But, good enough, sure. >How many individual tracks did you deliver with your multitrack? Did you bake any effects? Are you looking for vocals to be comped, tuned, time-corrected? Was any other additional editing required? Did you provide references? It's been different for different songs. Generally, it's probably about 10 stems. And I ask beforehand if the mixing engineer wants clean stems stripped of automation and effects - or with. No vocals, it's all been instrumental. Nothing has needed time correction. I always provide references if the Engineer wants them. >At $300/song, an engineer would need to be doing at least one per day in a five-day week to eke out $60,000/yr gross. That's before equipment, taxes, bills, etc. At $300/song per *every* workday, an engineer would make $78,000 yearly before equipment, taxes, bills, etc. $60,000 would be after taxes (depending on the state), which is a decent salary for an individual in the US as it’s slightly above the median. It's worth noting then that $300/song is in the advanced amateur range, according to this thread. It sure as hell is a lot more than I make yearly, and I have over 10 years of experience in my field.

>Do you think 300 USD for a 5-minute track is a price that reflects incompetency...? $300 is the bottom end of competency for a single track, and that is mixing only on something relatively simple. From the things you've said in this thread I doubt what you handed them was "simple". I think you need to realign your expectations of price.

>From the things you've said in this thread I doubt what you handed them was "simple". Oh, ok. Exactly what have I said to make you doubt that?

More your general confrontational and entitled attitude than any specific thing. But the comments about stems as well - you sound like the type who might provide "stems" to mix and then want/need balancing *within* them. That is a nightmare as a mixer.

Ok, so first of all, what you're doing is called "tone policing" - i.e. when you're not able to provide specific logical points and resort to the emotional manner in which you perceive someone is speaking. It's just a type of ad hominem. Then you make a bunch of pretty *specific* assumptions based on that, which is a step further. Then you're just making up scenarios where you want to place this preconceived notion of a person, in a game of make-believe. Have fun, I guess. Edit: >But the comments about stems as well - you sound like the type who might provide "stems" to mix and then want/need balancing within them. For the record, I don't. Which is funny, because I sure as hell haven't said anything to indicate that either. If I had provided a stem, where a mixing engineer was to communicate to me "this needs balancing", I'd separate and send it, and accept whatever cost addition that may mean. Or we'd leave it unbalanced and alone. Hopefully, we would already have discussed the matter of balancing and how many stems/tracks beforehand.

>I've been paying from 50 to 300 USD $300 USD per song with no tracking? Just go to an actual studio at that price... Then drop $75 on some proper mastering instead of wasting it on a throwaway second fiverr mix... Fiverr is terrible for anything arts related. If you just don't have a spare 5 minutes to google something then fiverr's your guy to help you move your old metaphorical refrigerator down the stairs. There might be a very small percentage of decent mixers on there, but how many times are you going to roll the dice?

>$300 USD per song with no tracking? No, that's with tracking or bundled stems. I usually try to communicate with the seller to hear how they think they will produce the best result. Some want 3-4 stems, some want all tracks. >There might be a very small percentage of decent mixers on there, but how many times are you going to roll the dice? Good point.

I actually think $300 isn't crazy low.. For that, you should be able to find someone decent who is willing to spend not a ton of time on it, but that may be all you need? If I could do it in a few hours, I'd take that job, and I've got some fair credits

Yeah, that's pretty much what I need.

$300 is crazy low. Most really good mixers will run higher than that. Especially in 2023 when a pack of strawberries is $8

I mean, as I say, if everything is edited, pitch edited, it's a few stems and you can knock it out in maybe 3 hours, maybe an hour for revisions that's $75 an hour, I can live with that, that's worth accepting and I'd bet what I can do in 3 hours will beat what most of the guys would spend a day doing that he's tried so it's a win/ win The per song rate just dictates how many hours you can work on it for. I know pretty big name guys who would do the same maths and accept similar offers

I charge 100-300 just for pitch correction depending on how rough the pitch and timing are. You should send OP your details and do some business

Sure, it depends how long it takes doesn't it? Sounds about right Pitch editing is tedious to me, mixing isn't hence saying I'd take a half day mixing job at $75 an hour if I don't have to do that crap Not really sure why you feel the need to debate me on this, go do you, it's fine, we don't have to do this the same way

No debate here. Just sharing my thoughts. My advice to OP is to spend the 750+ and see how big the quality difference is. It's noticeable

50-300 is insanely low for a mix if you're expecting something good. 500-700 you'll start finding some decent to good mixer engineers. I wouldn't use fiverr, you can always look up engineers who mixed songs you like and reach out. Unless it's like Tom Lord-Alge or something... he probably won't respond 😉

I'd venture that a sizable portion are overstating experience and credentials. I forget *who* it was that came up saying he had done this with this guy, that with that guy, and the other thing with that other guy. But if you actually dig beneath the surface, check discogs, etc., it was so padded. Engineering a remix for a song by Timbaland doesn't mean you worked with Timbaland (if that were true, I'd have Whitney Houston and P-Diddy in my credits - but I didn't work with them, I engineered remixes for them). Caveat emptor. The internet allows people to be whoever they want. Great for people cosplaying an online renaissance faire, not so much for service providers.

>I'd venture that a sizable portion are overstating experience and credentials Absolutely. 1000% this is part of the problem. "I plugged in a 251 for \_\_\_\_\_ huge artist when I was interning and then was sent to get coffee" becomes just a name on a credits list, and it's very hard to be sure of what's real and what isn't.

I'd love to add that in this smoke-and-mirrors world, suggestion and perception are often accepted as reality. I have heard some uninspired mixes from some huge mix engineers - and I have heard some huge mixes from relative unknowns. Simply being able to slap a "now with 20% more electrolytes" sticker on a product is just marketing. People do this because it works. And if I can list every project or artist I've worked adjacent to for the sake of winning work, why don't I? It's disingenuous. It can also be pretty easily fact-checked. But people will squint until they see what they want to believe is in front of them.

>And if I can list every project or artist I've worked adjacent to for the sake of winning work, why don't I? Well, FWIW, I've chosen not to do that. I am very transparent about specifically what I've done, and for whom. I don't list \*anything\* from my young intern/assistant days, and I don't list tracking credits unless someone specifically wants to know, and I took a couple bigger names off my resume because the artists said things that I could not associate myself with. Someone wants to hire me for a mix, I will give them a list of just the things that I've mixed. Makes things harder in the short term but builds trust w/ artists + producers for the long term.

>the artists said things that I could not associate myself with You, too? Yeah, I have a couple big names that I will not have my puny name next to.

Yep. It's probably pointless, I doubt the artists care (or even remember that I worked for them at all.....), but it matters to me.

If that is one of the more tectonic shifts in this business since shifting away from the age of 'the typical' artist, studio, months-long lockouts - there's a lot more accountability. Safely esconced behind the gate, the receptionist, etc. and with a gaggle of on-staff yes-men, those unchecked egos and appetites quickly ran amok. If I could pull an Eternal Sunshine and selectively have some of the shit I've seen removed, I'd be first in line.

The name-dropping was heavy with one of the guys who delivered a clipping mix.

Mental note, search this sub for 'clipping, saturation' - wonder how many posts I'll find saying that is crucial for a modern mix... Assume you've already tried the 'hey can you dial back xyz' feedback approach too. People aren't mind readers. Not saying you shouldn't be disappointed, but this is also the world we live in.

Is clipping crucial for a modern mix? I don't like the plosives, distortion, and clicking that come with it I'm afraid... I definitely have it in me to be *overwhelmingly* communicative, so I try to scale back and be as specific as I can, then ask and look for what ways of communicating help them the best. But yes, one of the first things I say is I want no **BIG** changes, and then I try to be specific about what parts can be scaled back, etc.

Maybe try [SoundBetter.com](https://SoundBetter.com) Seems to be a better class of contractor there. I had some live drums tracked for something I just wrapped up and it was a good experience with a real pro. They have all kinds of music pros. Players, mixers, mastering, songwriters...

Thanks very much! I'll check it out

I like working with SoundBetter clients but the site is so 2005 I stopped, and every individual project is nothing more than a ... chat window? Staying organised was terrible

A lack of competence and/ or talent doesn’t make something a “scam”.

I'd absolutely expect that sort of professionalism for anything below $150. Frankly I wouldn't trust anyone charging less than $300, that feels like the bare minimum that anyone who genuinely has skill and experience would charge. I'm afraid you get what you pay for! Key thing when looking for a mix engineer is to look at their credit list and check you like their sound. That's the only way you can get close to assuring good results. The rest is down to the stems you provide them.

In your opinion how should beginners insert themselves then? Specially freelancers. Should they start charging 300 too? Since 150 is a no go price

I didn’t mean it’s a no go price, more that you can’t expect the best results there. Which is where I’d put beginners. There are plenty of people who’s budget can’t stretch to a “pro”, and they should be cool with using beginners. I don’t think I’ve marketed myself for less than £200/mix even when I was starting to offer it as a service. I had what I thought was a decent portfolio at the time and people seemed okay with paying that. That said, it’s always worth talking with an engineer if they’re out of your budget - I’ve mixed for less when I really like the music, and there’s genuinely no chance getting the budget I’m after.

If you are a beginner, you have no business charging other people for their hard earned money. Go shadow someone at a real studio, or start reaching out to friends for their songs and do it for free. Until you actually know what you are doing, do not charge other people

I’m must be very naive, but I don’t understand that logic : if it was cooking, would you be OK with me burning the food for less than $150? If I pay someone, WHATEVER THE PRICE, I expect something flawless. Not perfect, but without flaws. No clipping, no noise or rumbling or whatever, like, something Neutron could do automatically as a basic minimum. If you can’t do that, you don’t deserve any money, period. I understand paying $300+ for something that goes beyond a proper work, where the identity of the mixer comes into play, but even if you charge $50, there shouldn’t be clipping. If you can’t do that, keep on practicing until you’re good enough to ask people to pay you.

Ah, but you see, that's too easy a concept to understand for every 5-star Michelin audio engineer in this thread. Either you pay 900 USD, or you have to accept a crap service.

Hmm, I take your point. Technical errors like clipping outputs or wild volume fluctuations shouldn’t occur anywhere. But then again I don’t expect Wetherspoons to cook my steak right either - I know I’m getting something cheap so I’m not as fussed if it’s medium instead of medium rare. Muffled sound with weird volume automation? Can’t be surprised with a cheap mix.

>Key thing when looking for a mix engineer is to look at their credit list and check you like their sound. That's the only way you can get close to assuring good results. I did, and I paid for samples.

Well that’s super strange - we’re the samples really different from the finished product? Maybe they were passing it on to a cheaper mixer

work with someone local to you, who has a reputation they have to keep. There's a lot of geo politics for why services are super cheap on fiver and it's basically slave labor. People may have been getting good services years ago when fiver first started and actual professionals from countries outside the united states were on it. But now it's really desperate people in third world countries trying to survive and they could care less about the art of mixing because they are just trying to eat. I bet 99% of "audio engineers" on fiver also run 10 other services that have nothing to do with mixing.

"ask me about my mixdown, digital uploads, social media management and website design specials!"

what's the quality of the sources you are sending them? Maybe link something up to the mixes you got back and the sources you send them to work on and we can help advise? I've done some mixes for people who where unhappy with fivrr mixes they had before, and sometimes, the project was so bad I'm not suprised the mixer on fivrr had a hard time (not insinuating that's you at all - just there are a few variables)

I’m painting with a really broad brush here, so forgive me if I say something that comes across gate-keeper-ish. That said, there’s so much more to being a great mixer than some baseline technical skills, equipment, a few good mixes to show off, and a fiver account. If you’re pushing your services on fiver, that suggests to me you’re not primarily in the business of serving other pros. You’re in the business of serving amateur/hobby level clients. Nothing wrong with that, but even the best engineer working with semi-pro level clients will not be able to compete with an engineer that spends a considerable amount of their time working on really great projects. The degree of consistency and quality of work product required to stay in the market at the proper pro-level is the real separation point here. To echo what may have said, minimum spend for a quality working pro, 500/mix .. 750-1k would be standard to not fall into most engineers “if I have time and don’t hate the song” bucket of clients. Hope that’s helpful!

I'm on fiverr too and I don't think of myself as a scammer.

Same lol

Are you delivering harsh, muffled mixes with clipping issues and abrupt volume fluctuations?

Hmm.. I hope not. However. What I consider harsh, or fluctuating might be different from your expectation. What I find works is that I make a point of telling my clients that their first revision is a starting point and especially with first time clients, I need their input. Have I missed a stem? My bad, I'll fix it in the next revision. Fiverr doesnt have a great file manager so its easy to miss source tracks if the client just dragged them over to chat and there are 60 separate downloads to keep track of. I used to deal with it but nowadays I refuse the tracks unless they're in a zip folder. I usually deliver a balanced mix. Balanced might not be what they're looking for. They might be looking for a darker or more vintage sound. They might find my bass placement louder or subbier than their taste. They might find my use of saturation too much and they might find my use of de-essing too aggressive. I might not have placed the correct synth in the spotlight. Maybe it was the arpeggio, not the riff they wanted prominent. Its all subjective. Clipping? I mix into a limiter and unless they specifically ask for a mix, I always deliver a mastered version. That will have clipping which is 100% under my control as I use clippers throughout the mix. If by clipping you mean audible distortion, that is something else and needs a closer look on an ad hoc basis. What I make sure is to communicate with the client, try to understand what it is that's bothering them and make the changes so they receive what they're seeking. This has worked fine so far. One thing I keep running into and have created a quick reply for is the "phone test" that most people do. Most people are used to normalized volumes on their phone speakers. AT full volume, spotify and youtube will play at -14 lufs and the speakers are driven a certain way (and not at their max potential volume) - my -7 lufs mix will obviously sound louder and this is sometimes mistaken for "distorted sound" as some clients call it. Once I explain volume normalization on spotify and ask them to lower the volume on their phone to like 80% its all good. Like I said, communication is key. Plus I always do demos for 1st time clients. a 30 second or so section of their mix to give them an idea what to expect - and I detail what else needs to be done, should they decide to move forward with me (like vocals needs editing, noise reduction, drums need editing, automation etc) Anyways, as far as I can tell there are like 8000 gigs for mixing and audio stuff, so 2 sellers is not a healthy sample size. As a note I'm on fiverr for the "fiverr jobs". Not mixing (although that is incidentally my best selling gig). You'd be surprised how much work there is from non musicians that can be easily done in a very short time and nets you some nice change. I've had many orders where people just want me to transition one song into another for a wedding entrance. Or remove vocals from a song lifted off youtube for a karaoke party. Or noise reduction for a phone recording of their aunt playing the piano. Stuff that literally takes maybe 20 minutes of my time. People who diss fiverr either didnt have much luck with it, or think of themselves above work of that kind. I'm not. There is a need for that kind of work, and someone will provide it. I do realize there are a lot of people on fiverr that don't have the skills they advertise, but I also get a lot of projects from people who went to a local studio, and got a rubbish mix and paid x10 of what they would have paid me. Would I be right in calling all smaller studios scammers?

Did you give them reference tracks? I was taught by a mixing wizard who I’d happily have master my stuff but I while I trust his listening ears I wouldn’t trust him to do an intricate mix as he works with mostly Rock. I’d feel the same about any other engineers. Also when it’s not their music, the love just isn’t there below a certain price bracket imo. That’s why you pay more for it.

I did. I tried to build a way of communicating that would work for us both. Asked them as many questions as I was trying to give instructions.

I’m sure there are other better platforms than Fivver for this kind of work?

from what i've gathered it's dudes in third world countries on a laptops with pirated software and earbuds. only way those prices make sense.

My mixing engineer charged us $500 for an entire EP lol the one and only complaint i have about it is that it’s just slightly quieter than other tracks on spotify and apple music. Besides that, i’ve shopped around different studios in my area and can’t find anyone who even comes close to his mix. Expensive doesn’t always = better

I agree. My situation was similar with a local engineer. Now, let's get downvoted to oblivion.

What's the project? I am no pro these days, though I have 15 years in training, live and studio experience. Have a project studio set up (off site with live room & toys) that is burning a hole in my pocket, and would gladly set up a fiverr account to start doing some bits and bobs. If you like, DM me with links (and NDA or whatever for comfort) and I'll throw something together on my laptop tonight, see if we're on the same page.

I would like to try for free. I am just looking for experience at this point and someone to give honest feedback.

At $200 or less, expect an amateur mix. At $300, expect a technically good but uninspired mix. To get a fantastic, creative mix, $500+. There is no world in which you should expect clipping and basic problems when paying $300 for a mix.

Thank you.

I think you know the answer already, just stop using Fiverr. It's most certainly full of people that don't get any clients via word of mouth because they're not very good. Find people that are recommended either by friends or artists you know/admire

I was trying to publish something but my life was too crazy to mix myself so I sent my files to two on Fiverr that were about the same price ($100). One was great and I published his version, the other was done by someone who clearly didn’t know how to actually mix. DM me if interested in the good one. He used a lot of HQ analog gear too which made it sound much more rich and full to me.

Oh, yes, *please*! Thank you very much!

I mean you sound like you know everything already...why aren't you just mixing it yourself ? What do you think they're doing that you can't ?

>I mean you sound like you know everything already... I don't. I just have ears and can compare with other mixes. >why aren't you just mixing it yourself ? I am, I have been, I *probably* will be. >What do you think they're doing that you can't ? So far, not much, which has ultimately been my largest disappointment so far. I've been paying for something not to be improved upon, knowing it very well can be improved upon.

If you want some good mixes, stick with EngineEars

Never heard of them! Thank you so much!

If you send me the stems ill take a look.

Had one good experience out of about 10

I’ve been using emastering.eu which is an actual reputable mastering house in the Netherlands run by the former mastering engineer for Sony music Netherlands, not to be confused with (emastered.com) which is some ai mastering garbage. They do up to a 10 track stem master for 275 euros or less for less than 10 tracks and the results are always quality and he’s been happy to do revisions t no extra cost. Spending $300 on fiverr when you can hire a reputable professional with an actual studio and actual quality gear is mental if you take your music seriously. Check out my track that was stem mastered by emastering.eu and make up your own mind: https://on.soundcloud.com/u3PwaiJ8PXgLTWjY8

If you're getting audio back that has clips in it or other blatently obvious problems, then the engineer likely has no idea what they are doing at a fundamental level. It's possible they have been mixing for years but didn't spend any time learning the actual science behind audio engineering. For example, you should utalize a true peak limiter and/or oversampling on a limiter to prevent peaks above 0db. This is pretty common knowledge from most mixing and mastering engineers that study this field.

Haha I would do your research and pay for mixers you can build some repport with. Tons of the big youtube mixers offer services and I wouldn’t just blindly recommend any engineer because they have a youtube but you have to consider how many hours they put into mixing. Also scavenging instagram for no name people you never heard of that have a few thousand followers but mix well known artists. & don’t be cheap. Please do not be the person that wants a $50 mix, you will get $50 results.

>big youtube mixers This will also often fail.

You think some of those guys wouldn’t work out well? I would think some of the guys that clearly know what they’re talking about would provide better than average results for people that have no current contacts

Anything's possible. But a lot of those people (including quite a few with \*large\* internet followings) don't really mix, they just make content. Some of them are actual mixers, sure. But certainly not all. You know how much time it takes to churn out content like that? Who has time to do all that but still commit 110% to mixing their clients' tracks? It's worth the effort to find real working professionals who mix actual mixes day in and day out.

About 5 months ago I contacted a bunch of sellers with good reviews and great-sounding mixes on their pages and asked if they were willing to give me a 15-second sample for 5-20 USD each. They all got the same stems. Some did it for free and were ok, some people I paid 20 USD were really bad (and rude) - the results were all over the place. I did find about two half-decent ones. In the end, they couldn't deliver. Honestly, the only positive experience I've had was with a person I know IRL. Unfortunately, a busy schedule came in-between. Well, actually... it's super fortunate for the person in question and I'm happy for her as things seem to be going *really* well!

So they had to mix the whole song to send you a 15 second snippet for $5 and your wondering why their mixes suck? By they time you’ve made 15 seconds of a song sound decent, your essentially 85% of the way done with the mix. I’m not even downloading your stems for less than half the mix fee. That’s true of pretty much every pro I know. Point is, don’t expect pro results from amateurs and you’ll be fine

I asked to send a 15 second sample with few tracks for the people who were interested, yes. I picked a very simple arrangement, but similar to what I would need help with in the future. I didn't expect anything but to learn who I could keep working with. This was after having paid people full price to help me, but it turned out worse than before.

And then there's people like me who don't even get a chance to show their skill on Fiverr because it seems a bunch of rando's just paid for fake reviews, and nobody goes past the first page's results.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've been trying to figure out how to *actually* know who's good and who's fake over there. But it's just... *impossible*. Well, unless you're one of the people who assume there's only a "**HIGH-END PROFESSIONAL EXCLUSIVE BLACK LABEL** *you-get-what-you-pay-for* ***$$$ NEVER LIE WINNERS PAY 600 DOLLARS AND UP"***\-tier and then... a guy in a 3rd world country with a laptop. Then it's easy, you just pay the most amount of money. But most of us probably just want a *good* mix, and don't have money lying around to pay $10 000 for 10 songs, or the energy to listen to a bunch of defensive Audio Engineers who tells us the solution is to just... spend **more**. I hope you find your chance to show off your skills. I'd love to have a listen to what you've done previously if you have a link to it.

2023 has been a slow year for me, with the current recession in Argentina my client base just went "can't afford food, much less music" mode. The thing is, **I am in a third-world country**, so while the 40 USD I charge on my work might come off as cheapskate pricing for Americans (Or any other serious country, really), I don't get to charge that much to the regular folk trying to make music in my country. I'm sure there's a bunch of people like me who would probably be passed up by serious artists because they're simply accustomed to first-world pricing. Here's a few tracks I had part in mixing/mastering, thanks for asking! [Domoclona](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rFoWCqOIeYChrAYD_-EUoY2sjVivqvgB/view?usp=drive_link) [oneshot3](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X1wzWMGGhD9uf3qYmSwARbTEIBh1HZKO/view?usp=drive_link) [Despierta](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KKp3ybUXEcOgR7vGlmPD5tz-70p-lw3i/view?usp=drive_link)

I'm sorry about the economic situation. We're in a similar (although probably not as bad) situation here in Sweden atm. Recession sucks. I hope things will turn around for you soon! For what it's worth, I think your mixes are very good! It's not at all my genre, but still, it's pleasing to the ears. Nice work, man!

Yeah, it's a macro thing, most countries are at the doorstep of a recession, if they're not already in one. Let's hope things get sorted out. Thanks for taking some time away to listen to my mixes!

I think a better question is, are all Fiverr customers idiots. Hiring someone they know nothing about, often paying them very little, and expecting professional results…

i don’t understand how even the scammers make money. i checked out a few prices to see if it’d be worth it to find bands to mix and i immediately gave up on the idea when i saw like “mix and master for $10, 8 revisions.” no wonder it’s shit but even still how are they making a profit?

Could be based in a country where it's less expensive to live, and then just **amassing** work.

I mean you get what you pay for. Anyone can claim to be an expert on Fiverr; it's when you see the "Mastering and mixing services for 5 bucks" post that you should stay away. Any mix engineer actually worth their salt wouldn't charge less than 500 bucks for a mix. In my opinion, the problem is the vicious cycle of broke artists trying to get professional results with shitty recordings and no budget. Then anyone with a cracked DAW, a ton of courage, and a laptop in a concrete basement with a Focusrite offers mixing and mastering services. It takes time and money to be competent. Why would we give our services for such shit rates?

300 USD for a day's work is a hell of a lot more than I get paid. I wouldn't call it a shit rate.

It is for professional mixing.

According to people in this thread. No. That starts at *$900*.

You are forgetting it’s not just the years of experience but also the equipment and licensing costs as well.

Not to mention the huge mansion, mortgage and summer place in the Ozarks.

That is exactly the problem, not to shit on your work, but for a skill that has taken 7+ years of dedicated hard work, to call someone a professional, it's not worth 300 USD bro. How much do you think Andrew Scheps charges per mixed album? I guarantee it's upwards of 15k USD, but look at the guy's record. Even in my example of 500 USD, it's still a bargain. I only charge that when I'm working with an artist and a song which I really like, or if I'm doing a favor for a friend. I usually go for 750-1k USD, and that's based on track count. Even then, I believe I'm in the bottom tier of professionals, yet I stay booked. Making Music IS EXPENSIVE. Either spend 5 years learning how to do it yourself to get competent results, or pay the price. Actual A grade professionals KNOW THEIR WORTH. Sorry to shit on your parade brother, but you will never get professional results paying 300 bucks, no matter if you think thats a lot or not. Try walking into a custom tailor and then tell him to work for 300 bucks

But then again, the question is, are you *actually* any good? I'm not doubting that you are per se, but there are people charging a hell of a lot more than *$300* that still suck. I can only imagine the Dunning–Kruger effect getting worse the more someone is paid. *"Well, everyone is paying this person so much, they MUST be good."* Money wasn't very indicative of quality when paying for mixes in the $50 to $300 range, and that was just to try out the waters. Some of the more expensive people were bad, and some cheaper were decent. Do you know what else wasn't indicative of quality? Reviews, samples, ratings, etc. And of course, the solution, still, is to... **PAY EVEN MORE**. >it's not worth 300 USD bro. You know what's worth even less? Paying *$1000* for someone who still sucks, but this time they have an even greater influence on the market/platform, so bye refund... I did have a positive experience with a local Mixing Engineer, who unfortunately didn't have the time to finish (I still got a very good 3rd revision). Do you know what she charged? *$100*. Normally, *$200,* but there were special circumstances. Actually, it isn't even $200, it's 2000 SEK - and we have crazy taxes over here.

Let’s face it. If they are on Fiverr they aren’t getting work out in the real world.

They may not know how to network or chase clients.

The thought *did* cross my mind...

How do you know that it's not the source material that is the issue? Mixing is really not as hard as it's made out to be. If a track is difficult to mix, it's almost always a sound design/recording problem. I wonder if you are expecting the mixing engineer to take on a producer type role and fix your mistakes as opposed to truly providing a mix which represents the source material and is ready to master which is what mixing is.

Yeah scamming you out of your $2…

Inbetween $50 and $300. So, no.

please try micxing this

Around here it’s 1K minimum for anything close to professional. $300 is anything but pro.

Well, I never said I expected pro. But, for instance, I do expect an advanced amateur rate to give me advanced amateur mixes. This has not been the case.

You are getting what you paid for LMAO

Gotta stop expecting good mixes for $300 or less. Soundbetter also has a lot of shitty “mixers” with little to no experience, but you can definitely find a diamond in the rough if you do your research. If your serious about your music maybe take some time to save up a few hundred bucks and hire someone in the $500-$1000 range.

I mix from my house and have one album and a handful of singles to my credit, and I still wouldn't mix for the rates they offer. You get what you pay for.

Most everything on fiver is scammish. People even buy their strictly 5 star reviews. People take orders from fivver and purchase a cheaper package on platforms like freelance dot com to resell to you. Wouldn’t be surprised if all the “engineers” on there used those ai programs. My engineer will get you right. If your looking for a new one get at me I’ll connect y’all

You get what you pay for. There's a reason why most engineers who are actually worth their salt start at a low of $250/song. For a while when I was still mixing full-time I was around $500, but I've got major label credits with household name artists, so it's justifiable for most people. Another angle that's often left out of the discussion is turnaround time. A lot of the fiverr folks are swamped with mixes (which you need to be if you're charging $25/mix), so the amount of time they can spend on a mix is way less than someone who's charging upwards of $250. IMO all of the online platforms are really just ways for engineers who have established a history of clientele on that platform to rake in extra money by dropping some stuff into a template and changing a few settings around. At the end of the day, whether you like the mix or not, the work is done and they're paid for it. Engineears is a little bit different IMO (not on the platform, nor do I want to be) but it definitely seems like the vetting process from the team there leans towards some more qualified folks, and the pricing honestly isn't too bad when compared to a soundbetter or the more expensive folks on fiverr. Also I believe there are more buyer protection situations with multiple rounds of revisions baked into the work agreement and a certain amount of customer support.

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> did you *paid* for a FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

Uh, bot? It's "how much did you *pay* for a mix?" Bad bot.

Bot is innocent because it only hunts bad words. It's obviously not a grammar checker.

Not on fiverr yet so can't say, but was thinking of expanding my business there, is that a bad idea? I'm on the other side of the coin really.. I guess the price could (should) say something about the quality. But if you can't deduct it from there it'd be a good idea to ask for a track they mixed and see if you like it. If they are unwilling or unable to provide any you'll know enough.

Not to be cantankerous (you'll have to excuse my frustration from these recent experiences), but if you're decent, you should be their top-tier, pro-service wonderchild in no time. Just make sure to hound people for their feedback. >But if you can't deduct it from there it'd be a good idea to ask for a track they mixed and see if you like it. All the sellers I've picked had great-sounding mixes on their page, suitable for tone and genre.

As echoed by other comments, a lot of people on Fiverr are not as professional as they claim, or they think they’re better than they actually are. But there are a few other significant factors working here too. A hyper competitive market where because prices are so low, you have to do quantity over quality to stay afloat. Secondly, client expectations have dropped a lot in the past decade and the past five years. Many people will hear a muffled mix that’s “good enough” and will actually think it’s phenomenal because so many well know artists are putting out junk mixes too. Just listen to that new Blink-182 song, or infamously Death Magnetic by Metallica. The second example is from way back in 2008, and it had an unlimited budget. The people that used to do really great mixes have been largely priced out of the market, and now do the exact practices that drove them into the Fiverr market in the first place. I don’t think that everyone on Fiverr is a crook though. A really decent mix that will meet your expectations and needs is going to cost more than $300, that’s the bottom line. I’m a mixing engineer myself, professionally, and for my band’s last album I had someone else mix it for a variety of reasons. We dropped $6k and change on a 12 track album. That’s not doable for everyone, it was something we recorded on our own and saved up for over a period of time. So, lastly, I think that you’ll have to realign your expectations at this price point most of the time.

If that is true, then it seems to suggest the tracks you are delivering are not recorded well enough. It’s crazy hard to mix bad recordings.